The Kevin Sheehan Show - Russell & Watts: Lifelong Friends

Episode Date: August 6, 2022

One of Bill Russell's closest lifelong friends was DC native Ronny Watts. Ronny played at Woodrow Wilson in Upper NW before heading to Wake Forest to play for Bones McKinney. He was drafted by the Celtics in the mid-60's and became one of Bill Russell's best friends. Ronny shared his memories of his friendship with Russell including how the two of them came together on a popular AT&T television commercial in the 1970's.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. This is kind of an added podcast this week. I had a very interesting conversation the other day after he was recommended to me by somebody in town

as someone who was very close to Bill Russell. He's from here. He played high school basketball here. Ended up playing somewhere else collegiately. and then played with Russell in Boston for two seasons. His name is Ronnie Watts. It's interesting since I recorded this with Ronnie the other day. I have talked to no less than three people brought up his name,

and they said, of course, the guy that played for the Celtics or the guy that was friends with Bill Russell. And so with that, let me let you listen in on the conversation that I had with Ronnie Watts the other day about. his close friend, lifelong friend, Bill Russell. As everybody knows, the passing of Bill Russell earlier this week was a massive story, one of the greatest of all time. And the outpouring and the storytelling over the last few days has been so heartwarming.

He was 88 years old, passed away on Sunday. We had JT3 on the radio show the other day. we had our good friend Jimmy Patsos, who grew up in Boston and was a big Boston Celtics fan on the podcast the other day, sharing stories about Bill Russell as well. I got a call, or I got an email, excuse me, from George Solomon, George, the longtime editor of the Washington Post Sports section. And he recommended that I reach out to Ronnie Watts. Ronnie Watts was a very good friend of Bill Russell's. He played for the Celtics for a few years on Russell's teams in the 60s. And so Ronnie Watts is joining us right now on the podcast.

And I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that I knew a lot about you before George asked me to reach out to you and thought that it would be a great conversation. But I didn't realize until reading a little bit about you. you grew up in this area. You went to Wilson High School. You played at Wake in the ACC and read our back, you know, kind of was keeping an eye on you and eventually signed you to the Celtics. So tell everybody a little bit about you when you grew up, where you grew up in D.C. You know, how you ended up in Wake Forest. So go ahead, sir. Please. Okay. Thank you, Kevin. I grew up in Washington, D.C. went to Wilson High School, did not go out for the basketball team until my senior year because of many knee problems. And one time of it, Chevy Chase Community Center, Red saw me playing, and he said,

golly, there's one guy that seems to be reaching out in the bubble of everyone else. And he said, God, I think you could play pro, Ronnie. And this is before I even went to college. So that gave me tremendous confidence. and Red said, Why don't you come over the house? And he invited myself and my dad, Arnold Watts, to come over to his house.

And we went up to his house, and we started to say, where do you think of going to college? And I just mentioned American University. And a couple of schools, he said, let me call my old friend, Bones McKinney, of Wake Forest in the ACC. So he called up Bones,

and Bones said he had a, scholarship. So we arranged for myself and my dad to come down. We flew down to Wake Forest and Winston-Salem, and lo and behold, we got off the plane, ready to take over the entire ACC, and there was no one to greet us. And Mones did not, it must have forgotten about the date. And my dad and I just went to the campus. We walked around the campus and ran across the chaplain Hollingsworth and Chaplain Hollingsworth showed us around. I got back home, and I really did like the school, Wake Forest and the ECC back in the early 60s, and my dad said something that really changed my life. He said, write a thank you note to Chaplain Hollingsworth for showing you around

Wake Forest. And that can truly change my life, and I've always emphasized that to my children to write a thank you notes, show your appreciation. So I wrote a thank you note saying thank you so much for showing us around. Well, Chaplain Hollingsworth was touched by the note that I sent, and they showed it to the admissions department, and I got accepted at Wake Forest and played in the ACC and against Billy Cunningham at North Carolina. And we did extremely well in the ACC, and it was just a wonderful experience going to college in the ACC, getting a good education. And then years later, my son, because of Red Arbach, the coach of the Celtics, saying that one of those statements to me, I think you could play pro, gave me a little extra bolt of confidence.

and all through life you have to look at something that'll give you an extra burst of confidence and I think you could play pro kept ringing in my ears and I did very well in the ACC and got drafted by the Celtics I I did well enough to

be drafted by the Celtics and I drove all the way up to Boston from North Carolina it's up to New York And I went to the Plaza Hotel where the draft was being conducted, Kevin. And their red saw me. He said, hide out. Don't let anybody see you.

You know, I'm going to track you, but don't, you know, I don't want to tip it off to any other teams. There were only nine teams back in the early 60s. Now the NBA has, what, 32, 33. So he drafted me and it was just a great experience being up in Boston. And then I played Bill Russell was the player coach of the Celtics on his first year. And I was on the team. And Russ trusted me enough to help him with the time odds showing the momentum shifts. And I could always spot when there was a little lag of the team.

And then the substitutions I could spot where a Bailey Hal might be getting a little tired and say, you know, I just mention it to Russ, Tablicek for Bailey. All right. You say, John, come on in for Bailey. Yeah. And Kevin, it was just great. I felt I was contributing in a certain way, whatever way was needed to help a person like Bill and Russell. I felt Russell had a tremendous amount of just Kevin.

Kevin, he just had a tremendous amount. So you're on next. So I want to get to Russell in your relationship with him in the years that you spent with him in Boston and then the friendship that developed over a long period of time. But you started off by saying that Red Auerbach discovered you at Chevy Chase Playground. I mean, that's a legendary playground for why.

Washingtonians in this town. That's where all of the best players, right, Ronnie? That's where they played. And Red Arbach would hang out there and find players and help players like you get to college. So this would have been what, the early 60s? Right. This was 61, 62. And you were playing at Wilson, but you didn't play your final year. So you were just playing pickup ball without the intention. that moment of going to college to play college basketball? Well, I was just playing pickup ball, and then I played well enough to make the Wilson

team, and I average 20 points and 20 rebounds. And Bill Bradley was a absolute. Bill Bradley at Princeton was just a tremendous influence, how hard he worked. And we would go up to Cherry Chase playground, run a mile and a half, two miles, and run 10 100-yard wind sprints, and then when you're completely exhausted, go up to Chevy Chase and play against the bus play rounds,

David Bing, the best in D.C. They had to offer. So I said, Bill, how long have you been doing this? And he said, since the eighth grade. So I packed everything that I could into the five years that I was playing basketball. and thankfully, Russell just sensed something about me,

and he kept me as one of the team. Real quickly, so at Wake Forest, because I'm looking it up, you averaged in your final year, you averaged 19.2 points per game for Bones McKinney on some of his good Wake Forest teams. Now, were you on any of the teams with Billy Packer? Well, Billy was a senior when I was a freshman. So Billy Packer and Len Chappell were seeing her.

That's when Lake Forest finished third in the country. Yeah, so you were a freshman on that team. That is correct, Kevin. Gotcha. And back then, freshmen weren't eligible to play. Correct. Yeah, and Wake, I think, in Packer's senior year, made it all the way to the final four. Probably a final four, I'm assuming that was won by UCLA, because they pretty much all

were won by UCLA. John Wooden was the coach, and John Wooden did unbelievable. But they had great teams, but at Wake Forest, you know, I said some rebounding records that later were broken by

a young fellow named Tim Duncan, who really was a close, a great, great player in the NBA. Wait, wait, did you say, what records, did Tim break, Tim Duncan? My, my, my,

My best, I was, my strongest points were rebounding and playing defense. And so I did whatever I could to bring out the best in my teammates and use what I learned from a Bill Bradley. Whenever a bass, whenever you go of layup lines, be the first one that starts throwing the ball out to your other teammates to get them warmed up. And then when they get warmed up, they say, Ronnie, come on out here. you know, I'll throw the ball to you. So that helps it off a lot. Wow. That's pretty impressive. I mean, I am an ACC person, you know, having grown up as a Maryland fan and now, you know,

and having gone to school at Maryland, and there were some great Wake Forest players over the years. Tim Duncan, probably the all-time best, and he broke your rebounding record. That's pretty incredible. We are talking to Ronnie Watts. Ronnie played with Bill Russell in Boston. So let's go to that. You get drafted by Boston. Russell's already there.

It's already, you know, an excellent team. Tell me about your first, you know, what you remember about your first impressions and how yours and Russell's relationship developed. Well, you know, first of all, during the practice, you'd be doing lay-up lines of the length of the court. and the pros of the veterans on the team would say, okay, Ronnie, take my spot. So you run full court down and full court back

and then you'd be exhausted and then I have a check with me, Ronnie, take my spot. So I kept running and running and Russell noticed I never asked for any quarter and did the very best that I could. So Russell, I never said a word to Bill Russell the first year. And I guess we got, it was the first year,

the next year when Russell was the player coach and he kept me on the team and I did whatever I could to bring out the best in Bill Russell. Yeah, and that would have been 66-67. You were in your second year and Russell became the player coach. Right. And he did a major breakthrough. Major breakthroughs. It was unbelievable how brigant he was as a player coach, making all the substitutions.

recognizing the momentum and I assisted him in any way that I could and he always had a feeling that I was, I wasn't out for myself, I was that for Bill Russell and

Russ, we became close friends at the end of the year and he came down to Miami where I was living and he called me up let's get together and we started towing around

and then we just have a very close relationship. All right, we'll continue this with Ronnie Watts, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So you played for just two years, right, including Russell's first as player coach in 66-66-67. So what happened after that season? Well, that's when Russell called me up and said, let's get together. And we just, I drove out with Rossell. household, you know, drove with him up to Seattle. We searched for houses, and he lived in that house for the next 40 years.

Right. And he moved up to Seattle. And whenever he was speaking, whenever he was speeding, he got this special radar detector because he was a fast driver. And I would always imitate a whistle like BP. And he's damned the police around here. I said, yeah, gosh darn it, they're everywhere. And I said, there might be the overpass.

So then he'd slow down. I said, you know, you got to just keep driving at your own pace. But Russell always, to me, we had the same sense of humor, the same sense of humor, the same sense of bringing out the best in each other. Well, bringing out the best of each other is exactly what you guys did together on a television commercial, an AT&T television commercial that turned out to be a very popular television commercial during the early 1970s. And I'll ask you about how this came together, but I want people to hear it first. This was Bill Russell with his good friend and teammate, Ronnie Watts,

in what became a very popular AT&T TV commercial during the early 1970s. Well, I have this friend Ron who's. very dear friend of mine. And we met when I was playing with the Celtics, and he was pretending he was a basketball player. And I used to play and he'd watch. And we became friends because I admired the way he watched. He masqueraded as a player coach, then I was the coach of the team.

It can now be revealed for the first time. He's always the same. Crazy. Good friends are for keeps. So keep in touch. Long distance is the next best thing to being there. Ronnie, that was great. How did that all come together?

It also was asked to pick out a friend of all the friends he knew to come up to New York. So I just went up to New York, had no idea what was going to be happening. And the AT&C executives liked the way the interplay we would have. But here's the one guy that's kidding back and forth with Bill Russell. So they said, Ronnie, come on up. We're going to do a commercial. And it's going to be on good friends or for keeps. So keep in touch.

and long distances and the next best thing to being there. So the commercial with AT&C was an overnight success and everyone was saying, who is Ronnie Watts? But they found out that was,

do you think that that's really that commercial was when people found out how close you and Bill were? Well, I think that was because that was a breakthrough. Who is this guy? So I would get a lot of different newspapers

calling you know, Wendy should develop the relationship. And to me, the relationship with Russell was always based on trust, on loyalty, on respect for tradition. And he liked, he'd come to Washington. We'd play golf together, and he liked my dad, Arnold Watts. We'd invite us out to play golf together at Woodmont. And, geez, it was just fantastic. Russell would go out there and the place would just stop.

of Ronnie's got Bill Russell here. And it just paved the way for our relationship. And it was unbelievable. What do you remember about those years in Boston with him? Because there's been so much discussed in the wake of his passing, not that it wasn't discussed a lot prior to it, about the racism that he faced, playing in a city like Boston during his career.

What do you remember, if anything, about that? Well, I remember that, Russ, he always stood for, I'm going to be what I am. He'd say, Popeye was my favorite philosopher. And I'd say, Papa, yeah. And he would say, Popeye would always say, I am what I am. And Russell said, I am when I am. Accept me for who I am, not who you want me to be. and that's all he asked for anybody,

and the racism came, of course, from being black, and then he'd say, Ronnie, how do you feel about the racism of you growing up Jewish in this era? I said, look, you've got to do what you feel is best for yourself and in your religion, and he always stood for something. If you always should, if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. and Bill Russell always stood for who I am as a person, right?

Who I am. And God only knows I would go out and play golf with him. He'd say, come on, we're going to play golf together in Los Angeles. So I didn't know who we'd play with. And I was staying with Russell at his place. And all of a sudden, I said, Jim, here's Jim Brown, the football player. So we stopped with Ross feed off and he had a nice shot down the middle. I'd say, way to hit the ball, Russ.

And Jim Brown said, don't Uncle Tom him. And I said, oh, my God, Jim Brown, he's going to outrun me. I'm going to be in major trouble. And I said, hey, Jim, I did not Uncle Tom him. We've been friends a long time. And all of a sudden, Russ pulled Jim Brown over. And I can hear sort of, hey, Jim, listen, this is my good friend. he is out visiting me.

Don't pull any of your stuff on him. And after that, I'd hit the ball and he'd say, way to hit the ball, big Ron. And then I Yeah, so I was hit one another sand draft.

Way to hit the ball, big run. So Jim and I became okay. After that, we had a wonderful round together. But, always knew that I was going to be on his side. And I remember at the breakup dinner. We had the breakup dinner in Boston,

and he said, desire and hustle, we're all it takes. Ronnie Watts would be the greatest player alive. And I built on that. I would always build on the great philosophers of our time. And just currently, my son Trent watched, even the book on Stoics. and you'd see what Plato and Aristotle said.

So I just built on that. You just referred to it as the breakup dinner. What was that? Was that when he told you you weren't going to be on the team? No, no, no. It was just everyone would get together. Oh, at the end of the year. Okay, at the end of the year, we'd get together, and here's the breakup dinner.

Hey, guys, we'll see you next year. Everything went well, and Rosa would get up and just say brilliant words by different people. And we all built together as a family. Real quickly, on the golf round in L.A. with Jim Brown and Bill Russell, do you remember who the fourth was? Yeah, it was Fred Williamson, the guy that was...

Oh, yeah, the actor. Yeah, the actor Fred Williamson. That's a pretty good for some. Yeah, I think we did all right. But Russell would then say, I was getting ready to get married. Russ would say, listen, Adidas just is paying for me to have an all-expense pay trip to Europe, long as you go on your honeymoon.

And that's a great idea. So I told my wife, Roxanne, we've got an all-expense-paid trip to Europe and go around, and she said, wow, that's going to be great. So all of a sudden, we get married, we get ready to go over to Europe. and Russ says, you know, I've changed my mind. I don't think I want to go to the year off. You know, I've been a lot of times. I've played in the Olympics and go, you know.

I just call off that trip. I was already made plans to get married, and Lachshan was looking forward to it. So, in a sense, we went ahead and got married, and Bill Musil was a major factor in going ahead with the trip. and then we went to Europe for three weeks. Oh, so you did go on the trip, but he didn't go with you? No, that's correct.

Okay. He just went on the trip, but we had to pay for it ourselves. Got it. But he was going, I want to make sure I have this clear. He got a trip from Adidas, and he essentially gave it to you to take. Right. But then he decided he wasn't going to take it from Adidas. So you had to pay your own way.

That is right. Okay. That was great. And I said, way to come through again, Russ. Well, was that your honeymoon or did you get married in your... That was our honeymoon, yeah. That was our honeymoon. All expenses paid for by Russell who decided not to take the trip. So we didn't use... We didn't use... We just went by ourselves. I want to come back to some more Russell stories, but I want to hear what you say about him as a player, because you know,

how sports fans are, and we talk about different eras, and people try to compare different eras. And, you know, was Russell better than Wilt, or was Wilt better than Russell? And who's, you know, where's, where's, where's, where's, where's, where's, where's teammate, you were one of his best friends? Tell me about Bill Russell, the basketball player. Well, Russ had a photographic memory. He would memorize whatever NBA players would go do. So he would know that if a Billet Cunningham would go to a certain move.

He would let Cunningham go to that move during the game, but then when it came to crunch time, Cunningham would go to that move and Russell would be there to block it. So he had an unbelievable memory. When we played golf, he would call me up after

we played golf and say, hey, Ronnie, you got the scorecard, yeah. Let me go through, he goes through all 18 holes and had it completely memorized. Wow. They do the fame in basketball. So, I mean, playing on those teams with Havlach and Sam Jones and Casey Jones and Russell and all of these, you know, future Hall of Famers and Don Nelson and read our

back coaching the team, at least, you know, before he turned it over to Russell. Yeah, it was a teamwork. You know, Russell always said to himself and to the players, what can I do that will bring out the best in each individual teammate? I'm not concerned with individual statistics. But what can I do? And, boy, he really made sure that a Habocheck got the ball in the right spot, that a Bailey Howe with rebound.

When I got up to the Celtics, Ray Arvac told me, There's three things to make the team. Number one, Russell doesn't like anyone on his back. So box out. Number two, be the very first man back on defense. Even if it's not your man, you do what you can for the team. Be the first man back. And number three, you want to make this team, you run like L.

And that was red. The only year, I think, I mean, you know, certainly one of the only years that he didn't make the NBA finals. You were on that team in 66,67. That was the Wilt Philadelphia, you know, the Philadelphia team that you guys lost to. What were the, I mean, you got to see Russell against Wilt up close. What was that like? Well, yeah, it was unbelievable. You know, Rush was outweighed by 50, 60 pounds.

Wilk was three or four inches taller. But Russ had a better grasp of the game. He knew what each individual player. He let Wilk get his 35, but he would hit each open man, and that was the secret to the Celtic success. So tell me about your relationship, your lifelong relationship with Bill Russell, long after, you know, he's done with basketball.

And over the many years since you guys developed a relationship in the mid-1960s, what that was like. Okay, it was unbelievable in a sense that we always stayed in touch. Every week or two, he'd call me or I'd call him. And you'd do certain things that would say, hey, this is a special relationship. You know, I want to help Russ. I always wanted to help us do everything he could. And the relationship, you know, I think we both appreciated each other's sense of humor. He was so quick and so brilliant, and I was always a good balance for him.

And we brought out the best in each other. And he always knew that I would be there for him. And I always knew he'd be there for me. I had many surgeries on my back. 18, 3 and screws on my back and 10 screws in my neck. Big surgery, he'd say, Ron, call me up before you go in. I'd call him up at 6 a.m. I said, that's 3 o'clock California time.

Call me up. Well, I'll call you. And he always was there. They gave me that little lift that said, hey, Bill Mussel was pulling from me. That meant so much when you're going through. pretty much life-threatening surgeries. Yeah. They have someone in your corner.

Yeah, definitely. You, you, I know as Russell the storyteller, you know, it's been said that it was,

you know, it was straight truth and there was never any exaggerating, never any hyperbole. Never, never. Never. Never. He was an authentic

person. You, what you saw, you got. know, I always knew Russ would never exaggerate. You know, and I might want to build him up, Sam, Russ, you had a four in that hole. He said, nope, I had a father. And, you know, sometimes people would cheat.

He'll say, I have a four. He would always say I had what I had, and let's take it for that. And you accept him. That's the way he lives. And it taught you so much about tradition, growing up respect for parents. I mean, when the Ku Klux Klan made an impression on him when he was young,

and the Klan surrounded his house one time. He was only 12 years old, and they were going to burn down the house, and his grandfather, his father's father, said, they're not going to burn down my house. He took out his shotgun, and he came out and blasted away, and the Klan went running.

And he said, at that moment, I always knew I was going to stand up for myself, for the tradition of my family. And that's something we can, all of us can use. Let's stand up for the family that we have. And I was always so thankful that my mother and father were, whoever they were. And he was so thankful. He was, it was a shame his mother died when he was only 12 years old. And it was never really closure to that relationship.

all through his wife. You know, I read this piece that his daughter, Karen, wrote many, many years ago about her father and what an incredible figure and what a stand-up guy and what a take-charge guy he was. And she told the story about how when they were away, many times they would come back and they were, you know, they were robbed once in Boston. But many times... It was always the raccoon. It was always the raccoon. They came in the mob of the house, right?

That's the story I was going to... That's what I was just going to mention is that she told the story about how trash cans would always be tipped over, and the police would say, yeah, it's just the raccoons in the neighborhood. But she said, one time my father went down to the police station and said, well, you know what, if it's raccoons, where do I apply for a gun license? As if he was going to take matters into his own hand,

and she said, from that day forward, it was amazing, but the raccoons never showed up again. That's true. Karen, when he said, I'm going to have Karen come out and go to Georgetown, and she stayed with me. And Karen is just a wonderful person. Then went on to Harvard Law School. Exactly.

Yeah, I was reading about her. She went to Georgetown undergrad and ended up going to Harvard Law. And, you know, she went to Georgetown undergrad when Coach Thompson was there, I had the chance to work with Coach Thompson for many years at the radio station, and you were, you know, he was on those teams with you. I mean, what are your recollectal? Yeah, John was, John, and John and I were close for many, many years. And in fact, he named his son, Ronnie after me, Ronnie Watts.

Oh, really? Ronnie was named after you. Interesting. That is right. And, you know, it was nice. It was nice. A nice relationship for many, many years with John and his wife, Gwen. Yeah, I mean, I can imagine, you know, Bill Russell sends his daughter to Georgetown for undergrad in the 80s,

and she's at Georgetown with John Thompson coaching there, and you're living in D.C. So he had two of his, you know, super close friends right there to keep an eye on his daughter. Yeah. You always wanted to do whatever you could to help Bill Russell to assist him because he never asked for help. But you always wanted to help him. You know, you said something a little while ago, and you've said it a couple of times about what a great sense of humor and kind of a shared sense of humor that the two of you had. I think it's, I think most people, you know, if you think about it, when you laugh at the same things and you have, a shared sense of humor. It's hard not to be friends with that person. It's one of the things

that really connects people is a shared sense of humor. If you don't laugh at the same things I laugh at, more likely than not, we can be friends, but we probably won't be super close friends. And it sounds like that that was one of the links that you and Bill Russell had is that you had a shared sense of humor. Was he funny? Yeah. Yeah, he was, he was brilliant. We had so many great fun times. And, geez, I named my son, Russell, after Bill Russell. So, you know, we had fun. We just had fun.

He just was a wonderful human being, a great humanitarian. What can I do? His sense of humor was unbelievable. You said he was super quick. He was really witty, very quick. And then I would try to say, well, I just did whatever I could. and we matched each brother very well. When's the last time you talked to him?

I guess we talked every probably every two or three weeks. And I guess lately I know that it's very hard to talk about, but probably a couple weeks before he died. And I'd call out there to Janine. And Janine would say he's sleeping, and I knew he wasn't sleeping. he always would take my calls. And that's when I was really sick.

Right. Well, I am so sorry for the loss of your friend. Obviously, the world, the sports world, but much more than just the sports world, is mourning him this week. But I really appreciate your recollections and your memories of the relationship you had with him. I mean, you had an interesting life, you know,

and I didn't know that until, until, until talking to you today and doing a little research prior. But I mean, you know, you were a Jewish basketball player from D.C. playing in Boston, too. I would imagine that you on some level, maybe not at the same level, but saw some of the same stuff and experienced some of the same stuff that Russell experienced. Well, in a sense, we did. I always wore my star David when I played in the ACC, and I was proud of being Jewish and Ross was proud of being black.

And we both had certain similarities growing up. And he much more profound. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed it. I wish you the best of health and the best of everything. And again, sorry for the loss. Well, thank you, Kevin.

It was a pleasure talking to you. and you brought out the best and whatever I had to say, and I certainly appreciate that. Ronnie Watts, everybody. I'll be honest with you. I did not know who Ronnie was until George Solomon reached out and suggested that he would be a good guest, that he was one of Bill Russell's lifelong friends, close friends.

What a basketball player Ronnie Watts was. You know, he's up there all-time, like top 10, all-time Wake Forest leading school. score. He said that Tim Duncan broke his rebounding a record that had stayed for for many, many years, played just two years in the NBA, but became Russell's really good friend and his confidant when Russell became a player coach for the first time in the 66-67 season. But I appreciate him sharing some of his stories. I know that it was a very emotional week that he had, his son shared that with me, and you heard some of that in his voice during the conversation.

But I enjoyed that a lot. By the way, the story about Chevy Chase Playground and being discovered by Red Hourback up there, you know, this is a story that has to be told one of these days. And perhaps it's been a part of various stories about high school basketball in the area. But Chevy Chase Playground was a, you know, on Western Avenue there on the line between Chevy Chase and Chevy Chase Maryland and Chevy Chase, D.C.,

was a legendary playground for pickup basketball. I mean, the best players in the city, and it was segregated there for a while. I remember Coach Thompson telling me stories about that, and then when the best black players in the area started to show up, you had the best white players, the best black players, you had pro players that would be. coming through town during the summer would play pickup games there. Red Auerbach would park it there all the time to search out talent. Remember, you know, the draft back then was a territorial draft. It was a regional draft in the NBA.

But, you know, if Ronnie Watts doesn't play pickup ball at Chevy Chase Playground after playing at Wilson and getting injured, he doesn't end up at Wake Forest and doesn't end up in the NBA. But Red Auerbach watching him play pickup ball. said, I think you can be a pro basketball player one day. Anyway, I enjoyed that. I hope you did as well. I'll be back on Monday.