The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sam Howell Traded

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

Kevin to start the show with thoughts on the reports that Sam Howell was traded to Seattle. Thom was with Kevin for the rest of the show and there was plenty on Commanders' free agency so far, what's next, and then Thom had thoughts on his few days at Nats' spring training. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey guys, I'm really pleased to have a new sponsor to the podcast. Prize picks is the largest daily fantasy sports platform in North America. They're the easiest and the most exciting way to play DFS. It's just you against the numbers rather than you battling thousands of other players, including pros and sharks. Football season's over, but Hoops Action is heating up, whether it's tournament season right through the end of this month or the fight for playoff home court advantage heading. into the postseason, there's no shortage of high-stakes basketball moments this time of year. Get in on the excitement with prize picks, America's number one fantasy sports app where you can turn your hoops knowledge into serious cash. Download the app today and use code Sheehan, S-H-E-H-A-N for a first deposit match of up to $100. You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin and show. Here's Kevin. Howling it to the end zone? Was it cut? Yes, McLaurin. Touchdown.

On third and long, Howard. Some good Sam Hal this year, some bad Sam Hal this year. At the end of 17 games as a starter, the bottom line is there just wasn't enough there overall for a new regime to believe. leave in Sam Howl. Sorry, Howlers, your boy got traded today to Seattle for a pick swap that I will get into here in a few minutes. So here's the deal on today's show, a show presented, as always, by Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com.

Mention my name for a free in-home estimate. Tom and I had just finished up recording the pod today when the Sam Hal News came down. So this first segment of the show is inserted into the show. It's just me talking Sam Hal Trade without Tom. And then the rest of the show after this opening segment, you'll hear the show that Tommy and I recorded earlier, or much of it. I'm going to have to edit some of it down so that the show doesn't get too long. We actually talked a little bit about quarterback on the show because Marcus Mariotta had just held his intro press conference, and I was expressing thoughts that I wanted Sam Hal kept as the third-string quarterback,

which led to Tom questioning why in the world I would want and worry about a third-string quarterback. So you're going to hear some of what we thought earlier today before the trade news came down. So let's get to the trade, and let's start with the deal. deal parameters. Washington sends Sam Howell and two picks, a fourth rounder and a sixth rounder, to Seattle for two picks back, a third rounder and a fifth rounder. Now, the pick spots, the fourth round pick is number 102 overall. The sixth round pick is number 179 overall. And then Washington's getting back, Seattle's third round pick their own, number 78 overall. and their fifth rounder number 152 overall.

Now, if you do the math using the various draft value charts, there are plenty of them out there. They're not all the same, but most of them are similar. The math works out like this. Sam Hal got traded to Seattle for the equivalent of a late third or early fourth round pick. I'm okay with that. I would have preferred Sam to stay in the mix

for being a backup quarterback here. I think he's proven to be worthy of at least that, a backup quarterback, maybe even a high-end backup quarterback in the NFL. He's also got two very inexpensive years left on his contract where he's earning an average of just over a million bucks a year. But I think you'll hear me say later in the part of the show that I had referred to that I actually would be okay if they got a third round pick for him. There was a report, I don't know, two weeks ago,

that Sam could fetch a third rounder plus, like an additional fourth rounder or fifth rounder. I thought that was high. But like I've said before, trade value is a hard thing for us to figure out from our seats. We get trade value wrong more than maybe anything else. we talk about. But a late third, early fourth round value for Sam Howl, who got picked in the fifth round, basically two years ago, it's fine if you came to the conclusion that he couldn't really help you. And I think as far as what Adam Peters and the front office group thought about

Sam Howell is reflected in the trade. They felt like there wasn't great risk in letting Sam Hal go for a late day two early day three draft pick. They didn't feel they would look foolish down the road for not giving him more time. You know, after evaluating his 20-23 season, they didn't see him as a victim, a victim of a bad offensive line, a victim of a messed up offensive approach, a victim of a lame duck head coach,

and the very messy environment that may have surrounded, the season because Ron Rivera was for all intents and purposes a lame duck coach. They probably saw a guy that can play a little bit, but has too many flaws to think that he had a high ceiling worth reaching for. Certainly not when they held the number two overall pick. They hold the number two overall pick in a draft with some quarterbacks with at least perceived much higher ceilings than Sam's. And that's really it in a nutshell. The new regime with a fresh set of eyes,

with nothing really invested in the players on the current squad, they watched every play of every game in 2023 and said Sam is much less likely to be a high-end starting quarterback in the NFL than some of the guys in the upcoming draft that we'll have access to with the number two pick, or at least be able to leverage with that number two overall pick. And that's really the nice way of putting it. It's possible, after watching Hal's 20-23 season implode,

that Adam Peters said, who thought this was a good idea this past year? This guy isn't very good at all. That's possible, too, because by the end of the year, I think a lot of us felt like, yeah, this just isn't it. As far as whose idea it was, well, that would have been Ron Rivera, you know, in part because Ron needed something to sell in early 2023. And he knew that there was an audience that he could sell it to, that he could sell Sam Hal to. I'm not going to go there.

It's tempting to go there. I mean, come on, Sheehan. Stop with the negative Nancy fifth round talk. Did you see him play against the Cowboys at the end of 2022? Come on, man. Did you see that throw he had against Denver? Okay, I won't do it. I'll stop right there.

Truth is, you know, I did think Sam Hal had some really good moments this year. You know, enough of them early on to warrant seeing him. continue to play. He was outstanding in week two against Denver, excellent in both Philadelphia games. You know, for the important parts of that Seattle game on the road, he was really clutch. He was definitely better in games against bad defensive teams. That's true. But he was also much better in games where the focus was on getting the ball out of his hands quickly. That's where he has a chance, in my opinion, to have success. Now, you can't quick game, bubble screen, you know, quarterback scramble your way to a Super Bowl. In the NFL, there are too many games,

and many of them tend to be the biggest games of the year, where you've got to drop back in a pocket, see what's happening downfield, process, throw with anticipation, and throw accurately to move the chains on third and eight. And that's where he had major limitations. You know, as a barely more than six-foot-inch quarterback who played like he was less than that, he just wasn't a stand tall in the pocket quarterback. He was a croucher. He was a ducker and dodger.

You know, and whether it was because he couldn't see it or it was a combination of not being able to see it, and not processing it, he failed a lot of the time, much of the time, in pure drop back situations. You know, it's true that he shouldn't have been dropped back as much as he was. It's also true that the O line wasn't spectacular. The O line wasn't as bad as many of you thought it was. And too many times, you know, the fault of the bad result on a drop-back. was that Sam didn't see it, and because he didn't see it, he either threw inaccurately or he left the pocket too early because he couldn't see where to throw it.

It just limited the offense too often. Yes, there were times where he was bum rushed and he didn't have a chance. That's true. But that flaw in those dropbacks of not being able to see it, and because, Because of that, either taking a sack or throwing inaccurately or leaving the pocket too early was something we just saw way too much. And that flaw, as we had discussed all year long with some of the advanced analytics guys, some of the guys we had on the podcast, on the radio show, that specific flaw, sacks and sack percentage. For the advanced analytic guys, they consider that to be near fatal or fatal. You know, from the jump, a lot of those guys said sack percentage is not something that typically improves enough.

And he took 68 sacks, led the league. His sack percentage was 9.6%, which was 28th in the league. There are some examples of major improvement with sack percentage, but over time, it's not been the rule. It's been more the aberration when a quarterback has improved from a very rough early start to his career with a bad sack number and a bad sack percentage. Sacks are the number one drive killer. That is the number one indication of a drive that will be terminated and forced to end. end with a punt or a field goal. You know, it's a killer to expected points added, EPA.

Sam also led the league in interceptions with 21 and was 31st in interception percentage. That is a number that can improve and does improve occasionally in the NFL. But when you put that number together with the sacks and sack percentage, and then you just watch the tape and see it with your own, with your own eyes, how much he struggled from the pocket and pure dropback, especially when they started to play the better defensive teams. It was not a tape of a season that ultimately was very impressive when all was said and done. I think he's an NFL backup quarterback.

I think he's a higher-end backup. And the reason I like him as a backup is the same reason I kind of liked Taylor Heineke as a backup, although Sam's got better arm strength, but Taylor probably processed faster. But the bottom line is that he's one of those guys that is fearless. Like you don't have to worry about him coming into a game or needing to start a game in a pinch and being worried about it, being, you know, tense about it.

You know, his mobility helps in those situations too. I think it's actually probably, better unless you have a really high-end backup, you know, that is a traditional dropback guy, but mobility with a backup quarterback, I think is very valuable. And certainly his, you know, these kid, big balls. He took a pounding this year. You know, and he was resilient. He kept coming back. Now, eventually, it wore him down, no doubt. But I do think he is a guy that's going to be in the NFL as a backup for many years. I think he's. he is Colt McCoy, you know. I think he has that ability to be in the league and get spot

starts here and there. Seattle's a good spot for him. You know, it's a new staff, so they're not beholden to anything that was there before him. Gino Smith is the quarterback. It's possible that they'll look to move up or draft a quarterback late. The new offensive coordinator, Ryan Grub, was Kalin DeBour's offensive coordinator at Washington this year. He's now the new in Seattle for Mike McDonald. He came from the University of Washington. Michael Pennix Jr. was his quarterback.

And by the way, Michael Pennix Jr. Totally different than Sam Hal. Stands tall in the pocket. Processes very quickly. I thought he was an elite thrower at the college level. He's my, I've said this, I think already here. I know I've said it on the radio show. I actually like Pennix Jr. as much, if not more,

than Drake May. Like, he'd be my number three. And I don't dislike Drake May. Drake May and Sam Howe are not the same. Drake May is a six foot four inch big, strong dude who can see it. I just like Daniels, Williams, and maybe even Pennix Jr. a little bit more. But, you know, in Seattle, they've got a running game with Kenneth Walker, with Zach Charbonnet. They've got receivers, D.K. Metcalfe, Nijiba. lock it. So, you know, if he goes out there and the offense suits what he does well, he'll have a chance to be a solid backup to Gino Smith. I mean, Gino Smith is not a guy that maybe this new regime will have a ton invested in. So maybe Sam competes to be, you know, a starter. I doubt that seriously. Gino Smith, I think, is a good pocket passer, is a much bigger,

taller guy. But it wouldn't surprise me if Seattle's looking to draft a quarterback, you know, if they move up into a position if Pennix is still there in the first round or, you know, I don't know. It wouldn't surprise me if Seattle is in that market. What is interesting is they're not in the Justin Fields market, I don't think, anymore. They sent the equivalent of a late third, early fourth to Washington for Sam Hal. And maybe Chicago's asking for a lot more.

Sam's also super cheap. And Sam will be a good backup for Gino Smith if they don't get a younger quarterback. Look, Washington ultimately with this new regime, wanted a veteran backup. They have one in Marioota, and I'm sure there will be, you know, a third quarterback in camp added somewhere along the line that will be, you know, the emergency quarterback guy during the upcoming regular season. But it's now on for sure. For you Howlers who weren't sure about them picking a quarterback at number two, they're picking a quarterback in the upcoming draft. Yeah, I think now everybody can join that conversation.

I don't think there were many people left that really thought Sam should be the guy, but there were some out there, that's for sure. All right, up next, you'll just hear the show that we had recorded. I'm going to edit some of the show down, but you'll hear it as it starts. in the things we talked about. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Tommy's back in Frederick. Frederick High School will participate in the 4A Maryland State Championship game Saturday night at 8 p.m. against my alma mater, Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda.

I'm here today as well. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is wind donation. Congrats to Chris Lund and the Whitman Vikes. They hit an unbelievable three-pointer at the buzzer last night to beat Richard Montgomery in the state semifinals at Blair. They go to Xfinity Center Saturday night, 8 o'clock, and they'll play Frederick High School in the 4A state finals. Tommy, have you seen the highlight? I'm assuming you have not. But Scott led with it on SportsCenter.

Have you? I've seen it. we should also give credit to the guy who threw the ball down the court. Oh, great pass. Great pass from DeRosa. A great pass. To Shapiro, and Shapiro hits his shot, just got it off in time. I've mentioned my guy, Chris Lund. I've known Chris Forever.

We've been friends forever. He's coached at Whitman for 20-plus years, and he's taken that program to levels that it's really never seen before. I know that a lot of the old-timers will hit me with, you know, Coach Dargett in the 60s when Whitman was a local power. And, you know, Marty Dickerson, who I played for, Whitman, did a really good job and took a team to Colfield House as well. But Chris Lund won a state title in 2006.

He's been to Xfinity Center now four times, including this Saturday night. Not bad for a school that was known more for its, academic team than it was for its basketball team for many years. But I was really excited for them and excited for him. He's a hell of a coach, one of the best coaches in the DMV and has been that for a long time. And apparently a hell of a math teacher too. But Saturday night, Whitman against your hometown high school, Tommy, Frederick, not your hometown, but your current hometown. Frederick. My town of residence. Frederick beat wise and wise has been really good in PG County and in the state of Maryland over the last few years.

I think they have multiple state championships if I'm not mistaken there. But looking forward to Saturday night, I will be there Saturday night at Xfinity Center. So if you're coming, look for me and say hello. We have several reviews to read here to get into the show. And then an email to maybe really kick off the first big discussion of, of the show. So this comes from Greg M. He wrote an Apple review, gave us five stars.

He wrote pontificating on higher ed as in education and labor unions. Leave it to Kevin and Tom to pontificate on such topics way beyond their areas of expertise. The highlight was Tommy contending that Dartmouth has been conservative for for most of its existence, dating back to 1920. Dartmouth was founded in 1794, so Tom only has 126 years unaccounted for. Keep up the menus of excellence. Tommy hit me with this the other day on the show when we were talking about the basketball team at Dartmouth unionizing. And it was a shocker to me, and I looked it up after the show just to make sure he was right.

And you were right, at least based on what I read, of the Ivy League schools, Dartmouth has been the most conservative. You know, these bastions of liberalism almost everywhere, but I would think especially in the Ivy League, Dartmouth hasn't been. And so to see a basketball team unionize at the most conservative Ivy League school struck Tom as ironic and it does me too. And I learned something from the other day. But yes, you're missing many, many years of Dartmouth being an institution when you said dating back to 1920.

But that's all you had data for. I don't believe. I don't believe I said that's when it began. No, you were actually, I think you were talking about presidential elections since 1920. Yes. And how often they had voted for Republican over. Democrat. And you had the numbers through 1960, and I said, well, what's it been since 1960? And we went from that.

Well, they changed dramatically in the 60s. Right. Like, you know, I mean, look at college campuses and what was going on in the 60s. And then back in the 80s, it changed that. Yes, with the Reagan Revolution. This from Jerome and Southeast, I don't think it's from Clinton Portis. I think it's actually from Jerome and Southeast. Five stars he gave us on Apple reviews. Hi, Kevin. Fun, Fun, fact and quick question. The great DeAngelo Hall has the all-time NFL record for fumble return yards at 328. Isn't that wild? Also, way back in 2018, at the start of this fabulous podcast, you mentioned compiling a list of your personal 25 most memorable skins games. Anyway,

we could hear this list maybe after the draft? Thanks. Also, despite many fans, personal surgeon general's warning, I never miss a second when Tom is on the show. You know, I didn't know that DeAngelo Hall, you know, has the all-time record in fumble return yards, but it doesn't surprise me. He was always around the ball. Interceptions, fumble recoveries.

Remember his, it wasn't his first game. It was the first game of the Mike Shanahan. era here. Sunday night football 2010 right before halftime against the Cowboys. The Cowboys tried a stupid play because they should have just taken a knee and gone to the locker room, but they threw a pass to a running back who got hit fumbled and Dee Hall picked it up and ran it back for a touchdown. And that was the biggest play in the game. Forgetting the running back's name, but he went to Georgia Tech. I remember that part. Yes, I do remember talking to about the 25 most memorable Washington Redskins games, because I don't really think any of the truly memorable games have happened since they've been the Washington football team or the commanders.

I actually have that list done. I put it together and I've intended to do it over and over again. And so I am putting this on my list of things to do during the up. coming, you know, quiet period, if you will, which is really post-trath through kind of opening day. I'm going to do that. And I put together a list of the 25. Tommy has written a Washington Redskins encyclopedia book or something close to it. So maybe we'll do it together on the podcast, and then I'll also do it on the radio show. But we can do it on days when Tom is around and over 25 shows, we can count it down from 25 to 1. I'd like to do that. Because there's so many games that people will debate and they'll think I'm completely wrong on, which is part of the reason you want to do something like that to generate conversation. This from... Actually, I've written

two Washington Redskins books. I know. I often forget about the second one. The first one was so successful that I always forget about the follow-up. The sequel wasn't as successful. No, no, no, no, no, no. I wrote a coffee table-sized book for coffee tables, about coffee tables. In the late 90s, yes, about coffee tables. That was actually authorized by the team. Okay, that one was, it's called the authorized history of the Washington Redskins. Who did you have to get it authorized by? Cook. Oh.

Yeah. I've never asked you this. Did you have a good relationship with him? I only talked to him once or twice. We got along okay. I think he didn't think I was an idiot. That's how he judged people. Right.

You know, within the first five minutes, if he thought you were an idiot, you were of no use to him. But I did not have much of an experience with him. But it wasn't bad experience. I just knew who I was dealing with, and I knew I needed to be on my toes. I had one experience with Jack Kent Cook. You know, when I worked briefly at Channel 5 after Maryland, working for Buck and Ernie,

although Joe Fowler was the one who actually hired me, he replaced Bernie Smilovitz, who I actually had on the radio show a few weeks ago, before Detroit played in the NFC Championship game. And he was a great guest. Anyway, we had an interview scheduled Buck did with Jack Kent Cook. It was a sit down in Cook's office at Redskins Park. I was the producer for Buck. We went out there and we walk in and the cameraman setting it up. And this was a very typical occurrence with Buck before an interview.

Buck decided, yeah, I got to go to the bathroom. and he would just, we're sitting there, we're getting ready to start, Mr. Cook, I got to go to the bathroom. Okay, Steve, it's right down the hall, you know, whatever he said. Buck didn't have to go down, you know, he had a long visit to the bathroom. I mean, it was like 15 minutes plus, and that was typical for Buck, and he didn't care. Buck was hysterical that way. He was like, it's Mr. Cook, who cares? He's still going to do this interview.

And I just remember Cook, and, you know, I'm 22 years old, 23 years old. And I'm sitting there trying to spark up some conversation about the team. And he didn't want to have anything to do with sitting there and talking to Bucks Underling, the producer. And so he's at some point, he's like, when is Stephen coming back? When is he, because he called him Stephen? When is Stephen coming back? I'm like, you know what, I'll go check. And I went in there.

He's like, I'll be there. Just relax. Get the hell out of here. And that's what I remember. And then the interview started, and the cameraman had issues with the camera. So, I mean, Cook was so annoyed. So annoyed. Somehow we got it done, though.

You know, because he fancied himself as a media guy. Oh, yeah. Well, he was. Yeah. Yes, he was. Yeah, that was. His background was in radio. And newspapers.

Owning newspapers and radio stations. Yeah. But so he was a media critic and student. This from Ty, Ty gave us five stars. Please rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify. Five stars would be awesome with a review. It doesn't have to be as long as some of these, but it is helpful. Following the podcast is helpful as well, subscribing too. This comes from Ty. Kevin, I've listened to you since you were doing updates for Tony's show on 980 and your boys were shoveling his driveway. I think we're pretty much contemporaries.

I'm a Northern Virginia guy. I went to St. Stevens and UVA. I share your memories of the heyday. I was at RFK for many games and at FedEx, including the playoff one against Detroit. I have followed your shows with Doc, Tommy, and Cooley. They've all been great. When you left 980, I started the podcast.

I've never missed an episode. You and I are the same demographics, so my favorite shows are similar. Now, he writes, my favorite shows now are you in Tommy. They are the greatest, especially when they have nothing to do with sports. I love your mob talk as well as karaoke. This is a long lead-in to the wire. I'm a huge fan of Game of Thrones, sorry Tommy, true detective, Breaking Bad Sons of Anarchy. That said, I just started the wire

and I'm already watching season three. It's really awesome. You've got to watch it, even if Tommy won't watch dragons. You guys are the best. I've already said, I'm going to watch the wire. It's not even about Tommy asking me, and there's no something for something here. There's no quid pro quo with Tommy. I don't give a shit what he watches. He's just, he's just missing out. I can't help him on that. My boys have been begging me to watch the wire

for five years now since they watched it. They're like that. It's the greatest show of all time. I don't know why I haven't gotten to the wire. I don't. I should be watching The Wire. That and my 25 most memorable Skins game countdown are two things I've got to accomplish this summer. That's on my list of things to do, as well as go to the state championship game Friday night. I mean, you got to watch it. I know.

You got to watch it. And, again, you know, when you get to season five, episode eight, you'll see the greatness. Yeah. All right, I want to read this email to start the show. It comes from Alex. Alex writes, Kevin, comparing Adam Peters to Ron Rivera was an all-time attempt at coming up with a hot take. Peters in three days has put together a roster closer to contention than Ron did in four years. Love the show. Love when Tom is on.

That's a second today. Maybe he can shake some sense into you. Thank you, Alex, very much. for that. Alex is referring to my conversation on the podcast yesterday where I said, you know, let's just slow the roll a little bit. I mean, you know, the emails and the tweets, this is amazing. Peters is slaying it. He's been freaking incredible. We're winning free agency, yada, yada, yada. I like what he's doing too. Let me be clear on this. This is not an, What I discussed yesterday and what I'm going to discuss with Tommy right now, it's not anti-Adam

Peters or anti-Dan Quinn. And it's nothing to do with that. I actually feel good about what they're doing. I really do. It's measured as, you know, J.I. Hallsell mentioned to us yesterday. It's calculated. It's strategic. It's just not what some of you believe it is, which is something we've never seen before.

or somehow they have just created a Super Bowl contender in three days. I understand the want to feel like it's a new day, and I feel that way too. I do. Tommy, benefit of the doubt, Kevin, right here. It's a new day. Benefit of the doubt. Couldn't give the benefit of the doubt for basically 15 years. I can do that now, and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.

I was just trying to paint the picture that. Four years ago, the organization that Ron Rivera came in and took over was the exact same mess. Three and 13, terrible roster. You know, number two pick in the draft, lots of cap space. And then the moves they started to make were almost identical. They weren't making big swings. You know, Kendall Fuller was four for 40. That was the biggest swing they took in that particular offseason.

but everybody else was similar to what they've been doing. It was Fuller, Logan Thomas, J.D. McKissick, West Schweitzer, Cornelius Lucas, Ronald Darby, Kevin Pierre Lewis. They were very much mid-tier signings that weren't costing big money with the attempt to try to change the culture of the organization. And I made the point, Tommy. Ron entered an organization that was owned by Dan and had a little bit. all these investigations and a pandemic that was starting. It was actually a much worse situation that Ron inherited than the one that even Adam Peters inherited. I'm not saying he inherited a good situation or a good roster. It's just that when people go nuts and they start acting like

we've never seen this before, oh my God, Adam Peters, give them the executive of the year award right now. I mean, look at what? Well, there hasn't been one. Well, there hasn't been one big swing, I love Bobby Wagner coming in. I love Frankie Louvre. I think that's the best potential long-term player that they've signed. I like Jeremy Chin a lot. I think Beattish is a good signing. But for the most part, everything that's going on right now almost mirrors what was going on four years ago with one exception.

And that is Ron is the coach and GM and Adam Peters is just the GM. and Dan's not here. Yes, what? I'm amazed that you were able to clear the clouds of your euphoria of the new ownership to see this, because you're exactly right. Let me read the headline from... Talk some sense into you, I thought. No, let me read you a headline from March 2020 in the Washington Post.

Redskins' free agent signings show how Ron Rivera values versatility. The Washington Redskins added three free agent additions Wednesday. Prime Packer, Nate Orchard, whatever happened to him, safety Sean Davis, and running back J.D. McKissick, underscored the team's early roster building pattern. The Redskins prized his versatility. Ron Rivera has targeted players who fit multiple roles. Okay. Now, again, this is like a, this is almost like an annual thing. 2021, I found an athletic story about their, about their free agent signings, which basically gave them a B-plus in their free agent signings.

Yeah. You know, this was the year. Curtis Samuel. Yeah, Curtis Samuel, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Adam Humphreys, William Jackson. Yeah, that was a design. disaster. Yeah. So, you're right. I mean, this is almost exactly what we've been through before in the early days of Ron Rivera. And again, I understand it seems like, you know, here's what, this is what I said the other day. They haven't signed anybody that's going to be a financial disaster, and they haven't signed anyone I don't think it's going to embarrass them. other than that, you have no idea really what's going to happen. No idea.

I would bet right now big money. They're up to 16 now. They added Antonio Pittman earlier today. He is really a special teams player. It was a linebacker in Detroit. So that's a Lance Newmark connection. And I like the fact that they're going with connections and they're going with people they know. But I would bet you right now, big money.

half of the 16 are not on the roster to start the 2026 season. It doesn't mean that I don't think or value what they're doing. I actually like the strategy. They're going to build their roster. The players that make them a contender are going to be drafted players. It's not this group. This group is a tone setter from a culture standpoint. And you mentioned the versatility.

Ron was always looking for position versatility, but he was also looking for, he talked all about it in 2020, changing the culture. Because it was a terrible culture that he inherited in the same way that this one is. And that's why he signed some of the guys he signed like a Thomas Davis who had been with him in Carolina forever. I was not, by the way, for those of you who mentioned, I was not comparing Thomas Davis to Bobby Wagner. Okay, Bobby Wagner just came off a record year for himself in terms of overall tackles. And Bobby Wagner is a lock hall of famer. But he's here for the same reason. He's here for Dan Quinn.

And Dan Quinn wants a good player. Don't get me wrong. He also wants his message, you know, through the three Cowboys he signed, through now, through Bobby Wagner, in the same way that Ron was looking for guys to, you know, make sure that, He's got guys in the locker room that know how he operates. Remember, Ron tried to convince Greg Olson to come here. Greg Olson. And even wasn't there some talk about Luke Keeckley as well?

You know, all those guys. Ron was in the same way that Quinn is talked about, about how well liked and how well respected he is. So was Ron four years ago, people. The big difference is that Ron had to work for Dan Snyder, and Ron didn't come here to be the coach. He came here to be the coach and the general manager. Now, that aside, you see it the way I do.

It's not a knock on what they're doing. It's a knock on those of you that think somehow this is so new and so smart and so sharp, and you've already judged a class that hasn't played one game yet. And let's face it, the class, it's basically mid-tier. signings with no risk to the team, which is one of the reasons I like it. Now, I think Louvo's going to be a good player. I think Beaudish is going to start for several years. Can't wait to see Bobby Wagner, et cetera. But the next thing that I wanted to get to is this. For those of you that were down on Dan Quinn, and many of you were. Okay, I'm not talking about, you know,

where he was on the hierarchy of candidates. That conversation I'm done with. I'm talking about you just didn't, you know, you weren't tantalized, you weren't, you know, thrilled with the hire. You thought they could have done better. Well, the players that are coming here, the coaches that are coming here, it's not because of Josh Harrison, Adam Peters. I'm not saying that they don't have something to do with it, because they do. You know, this organization, these guys aren't coming here even if Dan Quinn's the coach, if Dan Snyder is the owner.

But then again, Dan Quinn's probably not coming here to be the coach if Dan Snyder's still the owner. But when you look at their staff, when you look at the Cliff Kingsbury's and the Anthony Lins and the Ken Norton juniors and the Brian Johnson's, they're coming here because of Dan Quinn. Bobby Wagner and Tyler Beaudish and Dorrance Armstrong. And you could point to Beaudish and Armstrong really. and Louvo in terms of the players as the top potential producers based on where they are in their career and the types of players they are. They're coming here because of Dan Quinn.

You can, this is where Mike McDonald was still trying to fill out the roster, fill out the coaching staff last week in Seattle. People love Dan Quinn. It's one of the reasons that management fell in love with them. the search committee, Tommy fell in love with him, is because they saw this path to being able to hire a first-rate coaching staff, which they've done, and to attract the kind of players that could really turn around their culture

because the players would feel like Dan Quinn was worth coming to play for. Dan Quinn has attracted most of these players and coaches. Okay. I'll grant you that. But, and, you know, I think it's obvious, you know, I keep thinking back to when Mike Shanahan took over, which is the real moment where we thought there would be changed. And I've always contended he inherited such a terrible roster, such a brutal roster. He didn't have the luxury of all this cat space that this, this, unit will have taking over. But that 2010 roster was so bad. And I think it, I think what,

tell me if you think I'm wrong here. I don't think these guys were very impressed with the 2020-23 Washington commanders. No, I mean, the new regime. It's, look, you usually get a coaching change when a team was really bad, you know, and the roster wasn't very good. So Shanahan came in, disastrous 2009 season, right? Well, Gruden came in after the disastrous 2013 season, but there were coaches in the building, and there were some players in the building as well, that he was able to, you know, turn around, you know, within two years after the 2013 season. And it clearly, Ron took over after a disaster 2019 season, and it's the same thing. And so there's going to be roster overhaul, but they're not swinging big on this roster overhaul at all.

You know, remember, one of the first moves they made after Shanahan was hired was to trade for Donovan McNabb. You know, that was, that was a big swing, big move. I don't see any of that, but in part because they have the number two pick in the draft. Washington had, in 2010, the number four pick in the draft, right, that they used on Trent Williams, number four or five? Why am I blanking on that now? I think it's four. I think they had Trent Williams at number four overall. But I still think, and we can get to this in the next segment,

they're not done in free agency. And I still think that there are players that were their own players from last year that are currently free agents and still available that are still in the hunt to come back. We'll get to that and more right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, if you're into DFS daily fantasy sports, listen closely. Prize Picks is a new sponsor, and I recommend them. They're the largest daily platform for DFS in North America. They're the easiest and the most exciting way to play DFS because it's just you against the numbers,

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I'm excited about Bobby Wagner. I mean, this is a, you know, this is a Hall of Famer in your building that's been beloved everywhere. I mean, he's been on the West Coast, his whole life, he's coming all the way east to play for a team that's not going to be a contender for his one year. under contract, but he feels, I think, so strongly about Dan Quinn that he's going to do it anyway. Love it. There's more to come. They have 67 million, according to over the cap, still in cap space. As J.I. Hallsell said yesterday, they don't have to spend all of it. They're

at the beginning of a new three-year window in which 89% of the cap needs to be spent over the next three years in aggregate in terms of the overall 89% of the cap and the three years of whatever those cap numbers are. It's $255 million this year. But they probably will spend their money on more players. And I still think there are more players that are coming from the roster last year. You know, they have re-signed Jeremy Reeves and now Jameson Crowder. Reaves, you know, a great special teamer, add some depth to the secondary. And Jameson Crowder, a bit of a surprise for me. They need some depth at wide receiver.

I still think they might be thinking wide receiver in the draft, a bigger wide receiver. Crowder did a decent job on punt returns. They signed very quietly a couple of weeks ago, Kaz Allen, who was in camp with them last year and was a great returner at UCLA. But Tommy, I, Kendall Fuller hasn't been signed. Curtis Samuel hasn't been signed. Cameron Curl hasn't been signed. The three players that many thought would be, at least Fuller, would be off the board three days into free agency.

And they're all sitting there. I think Fuller will sign with somebody else. I do. I think Fuller is a good player. I don't know how he'll be valued. but I think Cameron Curl's chances of sticking here have slimmed with the addition of Jeremy Chin. Yes.

And as far as Curtis Samuel goes, he'd be great in a Cliff Kingsbury scheme. I don't know what it would cost to bring Curtis Samuel back, but if he were on another team and they went out and signed him to these two-year deals or one-year deals, the three-year deals look like they're. outs after two years. I'm sure Curtis Samuel is looking for more, you know, for sure. But he's age 27. He's only been injured that one year that he was here, you know. His last deal that he

signed with Washington may not be the deal he gets at 27 years old, which is, which is going to be interesting. The deal that he signed with Washington back in 2021 was, I had it here a second ago, was a three-year, $34 million contract with 23 guaranteed. It might be that he's going to sign another deal that's comparable to that, like a Frankie Louvo deal, three for 36. I would think about bringing Curtis Samuel back. I think he's going to sign another deal that's comparable to that. I think he's a Frankie Louvoe deal. I think he's a good player. I think he would fit into what Cliff Kingsbury's doing. I also think... I agree. I think when he's been on the field, he's been a good player for them. I don't think he's going to be able to command any kind of big contract. I think he'll be

affordable. I'd be interested in having him back as well. I'll tell you the team that he would fit in with, and I've seen some of this reported as rumor, the Kansas City Chiefs. That would be a great team for Curtis Samuel. Yes, it would. And they have a little bit more to offer right now than the Washington commander. They do. They do indeed. But I think guys likely, so Curtis Samuel would be a guy that I'd actually really love to

see them bring back, you know, on a similar deal to the deal that he signed in 2021. But my guess is that they will focus on guys like James Smith Williams, who's been a very versatile player. By the way, just as an aside, James Smith Williams has also been a very popular player in the locker room. He's a guy that, you know, guys like Duran and John Allen really respect, really trust, whereas, you know, some of the stuff perhaps with Chase Young, they couldn't necessarily count on on the field in terms of playing the scheme, et cetera. He's young still out of a job, right? He still hasn't been signed. I've said since the jump, I think a guy like Kaleek Hudson would be, it totally fits the player traits they're looking for.

And even a guy like Casey Two Hill who can rush the passer a little bit, and Cornelius Lucas, like those guys, if they don't end up getting deals elsewhere, like, look, it's very obvious they saw a roster that they weren't in love with. Yeah. But it's all. a roster that's going to have a lot of players from last year's team starting. We're looking at players that will be forced to start in some spots, but more likely than not some of these guys will be rotational guys.

Terry McCorn and Jahan Dotson and Sam Cosme and Andrew Wiley are still going to start. Duran Payne and John Allen and Jamon Davis and, you know, Kwan Martin and potentially Forrest and St. Juice and Forbes, I'm not sure Jamie Davis is going to start. I think Jamie Davis might be the most intriguing player, and I have no idea what they think of him. No idea. Intriguing from this standpoint.

With the Louvre and the Wagner editions. Yes. Jamon Davis, don't get me wrong, I'm not about to compare him to Micah Parsons, okay? So I'm just saying that up front. but Dan Quinn used his most athletic defensive player, which by the way, is Jamie Davis. He's the most athletic, fastest, quick twitch player they have on defense. He used them all over the field, lined them up in different situations, used them as a pass rusher, obviously.

I'm wondering if Dan Quinn sees Jamie Davis as a specialty pass rush. rusher. Louvo can really rush the passer as well from the linebacker position. Wagner is going to be your middle linebacker, or if they're in a three-four, they're going to be the two inside backers, Louvo and Wagner. But

I think... I don't see it. I know a lot of people have speculated that. I don't think he's big enough. It doesn't matter. He's so quick, twitch fast. Who isn't big enough? Who are you talking about? Who isn't big enough? Jamon Davis. He only goes about 230 pounds. Yeah, no, he's not a full-time, you know, edge-setting defensive end. I'm not saying that.

I'm saying he's playing up, he's moving around on pass-downs. His job is to go get the quarterback as a 6-4-25-pound 4-4 guy. We've seen his speed. Like, that is noticeable when Jamie Davis has been playing. Is it possibly he lines up as a super light, just edge pass rusher on third and long? I could see that with his hand in the dirt. But no, it's more... Oh, I could see that. I could see that, but I don't think he's going to be a starter on this team.

Well, it depends. If they're in base four three, he'll be the other linebacker more likely that's out there. But I just see a different role for him, knowing Dan Quinn and what he's done with some of his pass rushers in Dallas. That's all. I think that you know what's interesting? To me, when we compare like the Ron Rivera era

to this, which is what we've been kind of doing here on this podcast, it's not unreasonable to do that. You hear you had Ron Rivera, a linebacker his entire career in the NFL, former linebackers coach, Shackdale Rio, a very good

NFL linebacker during his time, playing career. And I know the linebacker position has been devalued somewhat in the league over the past few years, but they really, really went out of their way to make

it less important here in Washington during their time here. They really did. I mean, their personnel moves at linebacker were pretty bad. I mean, they drafted in the first round a linebacker in year two. But no, I get your point.

You know, they weren't. It's kind of ironic since these guys were linebacking, you know, you figure linebacking gurus, and the best they came up with was Jamie Davis. Period. Yeah. You know? No, no, you're right.

And it wasn't, and he was, I'm thinking here, he's the biggest investment that they made at the position, basically. You know, they kept a guy who couldn't run on the field over and over again just because he's super smart in John. Bostick. You know, Del Rio loved Bostick because he was super high Q, you know, and he was an extension of Del Rio on the field. But no, it's a good point. I mean, Cole Holcomb, you know, was a guy that obviously could play a little bit, but they let him go and replaced him with the Seattle guy, Cody Barton, who was hurt and didn't play well. No, it's true. I mean.

And that's a big difference to what they've done now in free agency with the new group. Yeah. Now, let me just say I'd have to go back and look at what was available in free agency during those years to see whether or not they had really good choices or really good opportunities for linebackers because sometimes that's the case. You go back and you're like, why didn't they add to that position group? Well, because there wasn't anything good in free agency and there wasn't that much. in the draft. They had four swings at the plate.

I know. Yeah, no. I would imagine, I would imagine that at least in one of those years, there were players available. By the way, you know, this group brings in Bobby Wagner, right, for, you know, a Dan Quinn. I love that so much. Yeah, Dan Quinn. I really do. Yeah, a Dan Quinn guy coming off a productive year that many thought would be his last year. and it kind of went back to Seattle to kind of have a swan song final season and then maybe retire. That didn't happen. He led the team in tackles with 185 and it was a career high for him. But on the same day that they bring in Bobby Wagner, in Dallas, they signed Eric Kendricks. Kendricks is Mike Zimmer's guy. Zimmer replaced Quinn as the defensive coordinator in Dallas.

And Kendricks was an outstanding linebacker and such a great leader. Like he is, he's been Bobby Wagner light, very light in terms of his accomplishments. But in terms of leader in the locker room, coach on the field. And Kendricks was never as physical necessarily as Wagner, but man, he had a sense for the ball. I think they're getting him way past his prime personally. But it's funny, when you get into these new coaching, you know, regimes, not that, you know, McCarthy's gone, but new defensive coordinator, they all look to their guys first. You know, Parcells used to do that all the time.

He'd always end up with former giants wherever he went. New England, Jets, Cowboys, etc. There were always former players that he'd stockpile. You see it in baseball. I don't know about basketball. I don't think basketball so much. But you see it in baseball that managers rely on guys in the locker room. to kind of, you know, be their, not to be their eyes and not their spies,

but basically, you know, make sure the message is being heard. Yeah. And the same thing happens in football. It does. I mean, and it's probably more important in football because there are just so many players and there's so many factions. But, you know, having Wagner and Fowler Jr., you know, who if you read more about Fowler Jr., he goes all the way back to Florida with Quinn.

I mean, this is a Quinn guy, Fowler Jr. And Fowler Jr. apparently is smart and has been a leader. And then, you know, a guy like Biottoch on the offensive side of the ball, Dorrance Armstrong, obviously, their first signing. It has been a crazy day. And look, like I said yesterday, who knows, we may get more news before the end of this recording, although we're recording it more normal time today

rather than later waiting for some of these. you know, moves to come through. But, yeah. Let me just say something about Bobby Wagner. Yep. This is pretty remarkable to me when I think, when I've thought about it. His connection to one of the worst days in the history of the franchise,

he was on the field in 2012 for the Seahawks playoff game against Washington. Right. the RG3 game. Right. He was a rookie that year, just like RG3 was. He was on the field for that game. I think he had nine tackles or something like that, I read. He had a hell of a game.

I don't know if one of them was on RG3 or not. But he was on the field when you could make the case that things dramatically change for this football franchise. He didn't stop Trent Williams from smacking Richard Sherman upside the head at the end of that game. Yeah, what a day. What a day. All right.

There are some of these free agents beginning to meet with the media with introductory press conferences. Marcus Mariotta is doing that. So we'll find out if he says anything interesting. I actually had a couple of thoughts on Marioada. And Tom's got some spring training information. as well. But first, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, as I've mentioned many times at Shelly's back room on 1331 F Street Northwest in the district. A day like this is a day you'd be sitting

outside and they're beautiful outdoor patio right in front of the cigar of the bar. Having a smoke and this is a beer day. It's not a wine day. Yep. Okay. You know, this is a beer day. And they have a tremendous beer menu at Shelley's back room. Let me just run through the draft selections that you'd have.

Bell's American Amber Ale. Blue Moon, Belgian, White. Dogfish head, IPA. Guinness Stout. You know, I'm going to be drinking Guinness pretty soon, Kevin, because I'm taking a trip to Ireland in April. But we can drink it in three days. We can drink a lot of Guinness.

Yes. Yes, we can. Modello, Lager, Sam Adams. My favorite is Sierra Nevada, Pale Ale. I always get that. They've got Stella Artois. One of my favorites as well, Yingling. They've got the logger.

They've got the black and tan. They've got the black and blue. And they've got, you know, bottle beer, you know, Bud Light, Coors Light, Micheloblobite. They've got a great selection of beers. On a day like this, that's what you want to be drinking. So you could be smoking your favorite cigar and drinking a first-class beer at Shelley's Backroom. And there'll be a lot more days like this to come. So make sure you find one to head down to Shelley's Backroom. You'll find out more at shelley's backroom.com.

Marcus Mariotta is speaking. They're going to be trotting out. They've got a lot of free agents to trot out for introductory pressers over the next few days. They're certainly not going to get them all in in one day, but Marcus Mariotta, I guess, is the first. I'm just reading some quotes here from Ben Standing. Marcus Mariotta said he wanted to work with a strong coaching staff and Dan Quinn fit the bill, said he's confident in his ability to play and be a mentor for a young quarterback. Mariotta also said having his OC, Brian Johnson here, was a big factor in his decision to sign here. Quote, I think very highly of Brian. I just want to surround myself with good people.

Closed quote. Nikki Javala tweeted out, he said, quote, if I'm called upon to be ready to play, I'm ready for that. I'm also confident in my ability to mentor, closed quote. So I was actually talking about Marcus Marriota on the radio show at the end with my producer Denton. I think this is an interesting situation for a couple of reasons. First of all, Philly basically doesn't have another quarterback on the team right now. It's Jalen Hertz and Tanner McKee. I was wondering like if I'm nuts here to think that if Justin Fields literally doesn't have a place to go,

why not Philly? Philly's never been afraid to have multiple quarterbacks, you know, on the roster and taking swings at multiple quarterbacks. Anyway, I don't know that that's where he'll go. I'm just interested that Philly, that he didn't stay in Philadelphia because they clearly needed and they need a backup quarterback to Jalen Hertz. And preferably one that plays like Hertz in that particular situation in Philadelphia. But the other thought that I had about Marioota is this. I'd prefer that they not trade Sam Howl, unless they get something of note. You know, if they get a day two pick, if they get a third rounder, okay. But I'd prefer that they not trade Sam Howell.

I mean, because you need three in this league, two's not enough. And remember they changed the rule last year where the third quarterback is eligible to play in an emergency. It's the Brock Purdy rule from the NFC title game. He's got two years left. You're not paying him any money at all. And Mario da's been sort of a one-year mercenary anyway. So Sam could be here for the 25 season as the backup quarterback after spending a room, a year in the room with Marioada. I'm not a Sam Hal starter fan.

I think everybody knows that. I am a fan of Sam as a backup quarterback because he fits the backup quarterback mold perfectly. He's unafraid. He comes in confidently. He makes plays with his legs. You don't want the stiff, traditional pocket pass. I mean, Flacco's different because he's a, you know, he doesn't give a fuck guy, you know, from the beginning. whether he's starting or backing up.

But Sam's got some real self-belief, and I think he's the right kind of backup quarterback for anybody. I just wouldn't deal him for a fifth rounder. I'd keep him. That's all. Kevin, I had no idea that the third quarterback had become, had risen to a place of provenance in this league. Can you tell me another team where a former starter

as a third quarterback in that role now? Where they've got a former starter as a third quarterback? A former starter is now a third-string quarterback. Oh, I bet they're examples of quarterbacks that have been third-string in recent years that started games. If you're talking about like, I mean, Sam Howell, when you say a former starter, he started one year because they couldn't afford to go get anybody else.

I mean, come on. Sam Hal's not a... That's not why he started. Okay. Well, Sam, if you're asking me, was Dan Marino ever a third string quarterback? No. Was John Elway ever a third string quarterback? I don't think so. No.

I'm not sure I buy into this argument that you would keep them because all of a sudden you value third string quarterback. I trade him for a fifth. I think third string quarterback should be valued in the NFL. Definitely should be. I'm looking through, I'm trying to find a list of the third-string quarterbacks from last year to see if there's any, like, true former starter. And I don't mean guys like Brock Osweiler and guys like that. You mean guys like Sam Howell?

What are you talking about? Sam Hal is in a, like, come on. Case Keenham was third string. There you go. Mason Rudolph. was third string a couple of years ago in Pittsburgh, behind Duck Hodges and Ben Rothesberger. Sam Darnold, apparently at one point, was a third string quarterback.

I don't know. Okay. I just, here's the bottom line. I wouldn't trade him for, like, anything other than, like, a legitimate pick. Wouldn't you rather, wouldn't you rather them sign a young free agent quarterback at a college this time around? to beat a third string as to to maybe possibly develop.

Should they go after another quarterback in this draft if they draft one at number two? They certainly have a history of doing that, don't they? Yes. Keith Schuller, Gus Farratt, RG3, Kirk Cousins. And they're not the only team, other teams. I know. The teams now believe that they have to do that.

Right. Teams believe that they should have a good third string quarterback on their roster. I would That's why you draft one I just wouldn't give Sam away is my point He actually He isn't in my view

An NFL starting quarterback on a team That you hope to be a sustained winner I think I saw enough to know that I could be proven wrong obviously And there could be a system and a coach In a way that they play that Sam could be the 20th best starter in the league but I think he is a

top 45 quarterback in the league that would put him in the top third of backup quarterbacks. They signed Marcus Mario da. I didn't have a problem if they went with Sam as the backup quarterback, but they felt like they needed a veteran backup

and a mentor to the young quarterback that they're going to take. So I think Sam's good enough to keep and not give away for a fifth or a sixth round pick. That's all I'm saying. Okay, that's all I'm saying. Okay.

How about this? Here's some news for you. The Falcons are trading, according to Nikki Javala, are trading Desmond Ritter to Arizona for Ron Dale Moore. So I was reading earlier this morning and actually talked about this on radio, that there was some expectation that the Falcons might release Taylor Heineke because. they would save like $5 million on the cap. But Desmond Ritter might not be the preferred backup quarterback to Kirk Cousins, Taylor Heineke might be. So clearly they're going to keep Taylor Heineke as the backup quarterback, I'm assuming,

unless they've got another backup quarterback in mind. And they're signing Ron, and they're trading them for Ron Del Moore, straight up. That's a good get for the Falcons, man. Ron Del Moore, they added Mooney the other day. They've got Drake London. They could be good. The Falcons could be good. Ron Del Moore is one of those guys that would totally fit here with Cliff Kingsbury.

But he wasn't a free agent, so he wasn't thought of. He's going into his fourth year on a rookie deal. And wait a minute. Was he a first round pick? No. He was an early second round pick, so there's no fifth-year option on him. Strange. All right, tell me what you want to tell me and everybody else about your experience down in West Palm for Nats spring training.

Well, I'm kind of conflicted about the Nats now after I spent a couple of days down there. You know, I didn't think they're going to have good pitching this year because I wasn't really high on their young pitcher. I thought they still look too inconsistent, but there have been a couple of performances of late that have changed my mind. McKenzie Gore the other night in a start against the Mets pitched, you know, basically five and two-third innings of one-run ball. And at one point during the game, he gave up a single and walked three guys and then snapped out of it. And that was a big moment to me.

No words. I mean, he's an ace, and he was out of control, he lost control, and he got it back. And, you know, it didn't escalate into something more. And that's the sign of a very mature pitcher. So McKenzie Moore, Gore could be the real thing. Really, really could be. I always thought he said, too. He may be an ace, actually. and Jake Irvin, after a terrible performance, a couple of starts ago, has had two lights out starts, which really were impressive.

And what was interesting was, I don't know if I told you this story. Now, Davy Martinez told this story to reporters the other day about Jake Irvin. Rizzo, Mike Rizzo, the general manager, told me the story, that erratic start he had he was talking to Mike and Mike asked him well you know what was wrong what was the problem and Jake Irvin said

I was working on some things and I thought it was Mike maybe it was Davey one of them said to him working on things who do you think you are back Scherzerzer you gotta make this team you gotta get guys out

you can't be working on things so that kind of like snapped him out of it, and he's had two terrific outings since then. So I think they're going to score some runs, even with the spare parts that they acquired in the offseason. Guys like, you know, they like Jesse Winker, I think he's had a good string. Eddie Rosario was a good pickup for them. You know, I think they'll score some runs, but I thought their pitching would be erratic.

Their pitching may be better than I thought it would be. I'm kind of up on them now a little bit because there'll be a point this year where maybe one or two of these young kids like a James Wood winds up getting called up at some point. I mean, if he keeps tearing up the minor leagues like he has in spring training, he's going to get a call up. He's a big boy too, Kevin. He could play defense. He could play like – he's like Alan Page big, you know, tall and thin and lanky and strong. Don't you do this every year? No.

No, I don't. I think you did it last year. Last year, I thought, last year I figured, last year I picked it that they win 55 games. Well, maybe it was the year before. They won 71. You predicted something that they would. Well, then that's not every year, is it?

No, it isn't every year. It just seems like it's every year. You know what it is? When you're positive about a team, it shouldn't seem like the usual. but for whatever reason it struck me as something that you've done before with the Nats. I mean, people are probably, you know, crashing cars right now. Tommy is positive and optimistic about a D.C. sports team.

Give me the top three in the rotation. Give me the top three in the rotation after Gray and Gore. Is it Corbyn? No, well, you know, Corbyn's been working on a cutter. and, you know, it hasn't produced the kind of results that I think they're hoping for. He may not be as bad as he's been, but he's never going to be the guy. He doesn't look like he's ever going to be the guy that he was when they won the World Series in 2019. Josiah Gray.

I mean, I think that Corbyn, you know, maybe I can't see how can they start Corbyn as the opening day starter, the way McKenzie Gore pitches. I don't see how they can. You know, I mean, Corbyn's role in the rotation, you know, may depend on his seniority, but their third best pitcher after that is Josiah Gray. He's had some good outings. He's had some – he's not been consistent, but overall, he's a good number three starter. And in May or June, they've got Cade Cavali coming off Tommy John surgery at some point

ready to pitch. He was one of their number one pitching prospects before he had Tommy John surgery. And, you know, at some point, if he's ready to get called up, he'll be in rotation as well. So, I mean, they have to have some things go right for them, but I think they'll score some runs. I think they're pitching maybe better than I first thought it was. But they play in a tough division. Look, they play in a division with the brave. And the first, And the Phillies.

Well, and the Marlins were surprised last year. You've got to play those teams like 18 times a year or 19 times years. I forget how many they play each other now. So that's tough. I mean, they may be better, but the other teams may be just too good. I'm a little bit more optimistic about them. That's the bottom line. All right.

And one more thing. Yeah. You got to watch this kid, Tray Limpscom. I wrote about him in today. Washington Times. He's from Urbana in Frederick County. He wasn't one of the big-name young kids that are mentioned, but he may be the closest one to making it to Major League. He's had a terrific spring. He's batting almost 400. He was their minor league defensive player of the year last year at AA. He's a natural third baseman, but he can play anywhere in the infield, and they've

been playing him at second base because Louise Garcia is playing his way out of a job. And it's going to be awfully difficult for them not to bring Trey Limbscomb with them when they come up in April. He's playing that well right now. Are you mentioning him because he was born in Frederick, Maryland? No, no, I'm telling you. I interviewed this. He was born in Frederick. No, he wasn't born there, I don't think. Yes, he is. According to baseball reference, he was born in Frederick, Maryland. Well, I'm not sure that's accurate, but maybe it is. It's a baseball reference.

He told me they only moved to Urbana when he was in city area when he was in fifth grade. So I'm not sure that's accurate or not. But I interviewed this kid, he reminds me at Ian Desmond. The way he handles himself. He's so composed, so smart. And, you know, it's just with him and C.J. Abrams at short, and he's about 6-2, 220, you know, and so is Abrams. Abrams maybe about 200, that's a formidable keystone combination right there.

Keep your eye on Trey Limscombe. Okay, there you go. Trey Linscom, good information on the Nats, can't wait for opening day. You know, it's, I may have mentioned this to you before, but because I didn't grow up with baseball, I didn't have a baseball team for 34 years, and it covered all of my youth and teenage years. A lot of my friends were huge Orioles games and Orioles fans, and I went to a lot of Orioles games. Don't get me wrong. But I know people who just love this time of year.

Love to go to spring training, the smell of the grass, the crack of the bat, the whole thing. and it just doesn't interest me at all. Have we already talked about this? I feel like it's a repeat conversation. Well, I don't know, but you've got to be a little bit warped not to want to be at spring training. I couldn't care less about spring training. Couldn't I get less. You're sitting in the Florida sun.

It's 82 degrees. Trust me, that's different. I'd love to be in the Florida sun, playing golf, going out having cocktails and partying at night. You're out of your mind. But I just, I probably am out of my mind for you, but I'm trying to explain to you why it's not a big deal. I didn't have a baseball team growing up. You did. My father loves baseball. He watches every Nats game. He goes to spring training games down in Florida. Not Nats games, but he'll go to some spring training games down in Florida. I didn't grow up with that. If I had...

Kevin. What? Kevin. People, people who are human beings with senses that are still active like to go to spring training baseball. Okay. Well, doesn't do anything for me. Okay. All right.

Well, anything else? I can't think of anything else, boss. I think I think my tank is empty. The Terps talk will wait until tomorrow because. as we're recording this before they play their second round game against Wisconsin. Love the way they played last night and crushing Rutgers. And I don't know, I kind of think they have a chance against Wisconsin. I wouldn't bet it, though.

Back tomorrow with Nikki Javala and another guest. So tune in for that. See you, Tommy. See you, boss.