The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sam on Sam

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Kevin was joined in a conversation on Sam Howell by Sam Fortier/Washington Post. Plenty on the coaching situation and last night's Eagles win over the Chiefs.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The show, as always, presented by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to WindowNation.com. One guest on the show today, Sam Fortier from the Washington Post, will join me.

We'll talk Sam Hal. We will talk whether or not he believes there will be an in-season firing of Ron Reve. or Jack Del Rio. Nothing happened yesterday. It was highly unlikely that something was going to happen yesterday because of the short week heading into Thursday's game against the Cowboys. I guess it's still possible that something could happen on Friday. I don't think it will personally.

It's justified if it happens. As I said yesterday, I'm not going to have a problem with it if they decide to do something. but at the same time, I don't need Josh Harris to make a statement to me as a fan. And if you feel differently, you're entitled to it. Again, this is a justifiable in-season firing based on the record, based on losses to the Giants and a loss to the Bears. I mean, you've got three of the ugliest losses in one season that I think any of the Snyder coaches have ever had. So it's completely rational to think that they should fire him and desire that. I just don't think I need it for the purposes of Josh trying to make a statement to the fan base.

Like after 24 years of Snyder coaches, am I really going to be so upset with Josh Harris if he doesn't in-season fire Ron or in-season fire Jack? No, I can wait until the end of the season. As I said yesterday, who coaches next is so much more important than who's coaching now. And then now is about Sam Howl. The final six games are about Sam Howe and determining whether or not he is the answer. Because he's the only one of the big names that were just discussed, Ron Rivera, Jack Del Rio, Sam, Howe. He's the only one that can be an answer to next year.

The others, that's already been answered. They are done. Which leads me perfectly into this email to read to start the show. It comes from Richard. Richard writes Kevin. Sam Howe isn't consistent enough, period. Takes too many sacks, throws too many interceptions, and the new general manager should be thinking quarterback in the draft,

especially if they have a top five pick. Caleb Williams, the QB from UNC, Daniels and Pennix are all better prospects than Hal. We've just been too long here without a QB. We don't know what a real good one looks like. Sam can play in the NFL and might even be a starter, but he's not special. Thank you, Richard, for that. I want to start right there.

So the quarterback C listed Caleb Williams. I think you all know who Caleb Williams is. The QB from UNC is Drake May. Daniels is Jaden Daniels from LSU. Pennix is Michael Pennix Jr. from Washington. He left out Bo Nix, J.J. McCarthy. Those are the six quarterbacks right now, all projected to go somewhere in the first round with Williams and May,

and they've pretty much been this way since the mock draft process for 2024 started. They're the top two players off the board. Now, Marvin Harrison Jr., the receiver, from Ohio State is a player that many believe will go in the top two or three as well. But look, it's the draft. We know how things change between now and then. Richard, as far as special, he's not special. I mean, who is special?

That list is so small. We haven't had a special quarterback year since Thysman, and Thysman wasn't a Hall of Famer. He was an MVP one year in 1983. I mean, Sonny and Sammy Baugh. You know, Jurgensen and Baugh are the two quarterbacks in franchise history that are in the Hall of Fame. You know, they were special quarterbacks. Joe, you win the MVP.

You're certainly special that year, and there were other years where Joe was very good. You know, even my guy, you know who, was not a special quarterback. That list is a small short list of the elite quarterbacks in the game. So not to say that you don't strive for that, but your chances of hitting on that are so, so slim. Even in the draft when you have a top five pick and there are really strong prospects, because even though most of the starting quarterbacks in the NFL and the great ones come from the first round in the NFL, Brady excluded, there are many more misses than hits, and they're just so hard to project. But there was something that you said that I actually didn't realize until I went and looked it up.

I didn't actually know that Sam Howe was leading the league in interceptions, and it made me think of this. Can you imagine if I told you that he's tied for the league lead in interceptions. Josh Allen's got 12. he's got 12. They've both played 11 games. There are a lot of quarterbacks that have only played 10 that, you know, have 10 picks or nine picks. So it's possible that, you know, once everybody's played the same number of games,

Sam won't be the league leader in interceptions. It's the same idea when I said last week, you know, let's not get carried away with him leading the league in passing yards. He's played one more game than basically the next five guys. So if they had played the same number of games, he'd probably be more like fourth, fifth, or sixth. And in fact, in average yards per game passing, he's fourth in the league. I think he was fifth last week. But anyway, I didn't realize he was leading the league in interceptions.

And can you imagine if before the Arizona game, when we were all talking about, will he or won't he be the guy? What are we going to learn about Sam Howell this year? What if I had told you before the Arizona opener, look, after 11 games, he's going to lead the league in interceptions, and he's going to lead the league in sacks, and the sack number is going to be on pace for the most sacks in NFL history. If I had told you that, nobody would have believed that there would have been any conversation about Sam Hal being the quarterback in 2024. I think we'd all be asking ourselves, how the hell did he make it to week 11 as the starter? But that goes to show you that numbers are just numbers and they're not tell-alls because the 12 interceptions, you know, they came in two games. A lot of you will emphasize, yeah, but it was only two games.

And the sacks were much more of an early season problem, although he was sacked a number of times against the Giants on Sunday four. fact. And even though the sack problem's gotten better, he's still got sacked three times by the Patriots three times by Seattle. There's only one game in which he's got less than three sacks, and that is the Philly game at home, which was, you know, arguably the best game of the year for Sam, threw for $3.97, through four touchdowns, threw a pick in that game, and it was a crucial pick. But that was the game in which he also had his highest passer rating and his high, or not his highest passer rating, his highest QBR number at 67.9. The other thing too is, for those of you that have suggested to me, and there are many of you that have suggested,

look, man, he had all those picks in two games. He had two bad games. That's it. I've heard that actually in the national media. Sam Howell's been great. man. He said, two bad games. You know, he threw four. Those picks were all in two games. Well, the irony of that is actually the picks that came in the game against the Giants on Sunday. The Giants game on Sunday was nowhere near his worst game. I mean, he wasn't good in that game, but it was nowhere near his worst game. There were three games minimum that were worse than that one, I would say.

I just, the truth will do in this discussion. Sam has been more good than bad. You know what? A lot more good than bad this year. But he's had more than two or three bad games. He was not good in the Arizona game. We all agree on the Buffalo game. The Chicago game was not a good game for him.

The giant game, the first giant game, not good for him. That's four games right there, all right? He wasn't good in the second half of the Atlanta game. And Sunday, it wasn't his worst game, but he wasn't good in that game. I mean, I basically just gave you Arizona Buffalo. Chicago, first giant game, second giant game, and the second half of the Atlanta game. I just gave you five and a half games. That is accurate.

That is accurate. In fact, I'm going to pull up his QBR numbers. I want to see what the QBR number on ESPN says. I don't have all of his PFF grades. Sorry. I don't subscribe to PFF. I hear about the grades from some of you. And when I have people on, I hear the grades from them.

Here are his QBR numbers for the year. So the lowest QBR by far was the Buffalo game at 11.3, dreadful. The giant game, 20.2, the first giant game. That's the second worst. Third worst QBR number is the Atlanta game. He did not play well. The offense didn't play well in the second half of that Falcons game. They won the game, 34.9, QBR.

Then the Arizona game at 37.6. And then the Chicago game at 4.4. The Chicago game's misleading. He threw for 388. They're down 27 to 3 at halftime. The defense was atrocious. Don't get me wrong. Okay.

But they went punt punt-punt interception to start that game. In fact, I'm going to pull it up. I think it was three and out, three-and-out, three-and-out. Or three-and-out, three-and-out, three-and-out. Three-and-out, field-gold drive, excuse me, then the interception. 27-3 halftime. And then threw for a lot of yards in the second half when they threw it for, What was it like 55 street times?

Or was that the Buffalo game? I'm forgetting now. Anyway, enough on that. Richard, I agree, by the way. I am nowhere near ready to say I'm not interested in drafting a quarterback. This quarterback draft is incredibly intriguing. There are quarterbacks in this draft that I love watching as college players, so hard to project. But as of today,

and these 11 games? No, I'm not, you know, I am not discounting the quarterback option in the 2024 draft. I may change my mind, you know, and the three games before Sunday were certainly building towards me saying, let's draft an offensive lineman, let's draft Joe Walt from Notre Dame, let's, you know, let's load up on offensive linemen, let's get a, need a pass rusher in the next draft, you know, somewhere along the line. But are you kidding me? I mean, Caleb Williams, Drake May, Jaden Daniels, who I'm in love with, Pennix Jr., Bo Nix. I mean, this is a draft that if you've got a top ten-ish kind of pick, which is what they're headed for, then you're going to have a chance to draft one of these guys that could be special, more likely than that won't be.

I kind of agree with Richard. I don't see special in Sam Hal. I do see special. I do see special. somebody possibly one more time before I make the decision on this. I see somebody that could be an NFL starter. For sure. I think there's some flaws there. I think there's some flaws.

And I, you know, I'll I'm not going to get into it here. I'll talk to Sam about this. See if, you know, what concerns him still. I mean, what concerns me still is the size is a little bit

of an issue at times. Passes are deflected a lot. He can't see at times in the pocket. There are shorter guys that play bigger. Sam, I think, in the pocket, looks small, looks short. But, man, he is a good distributor in kind of a West Coast scheme. I love that.

I love what they've done here over the last four games. But anyway, I had one other quick tweet that I wanted to read. This is from, where is it? It's from Jerry. Kevin, I just think that the ownership needs to get a look at the enemy. Six games left, their next head coach might be in the building. They should use this opportunity to figure out if he's the next head coach. I completely disagree on this, and I'll give you a few reasons why.

I know we've talked about this previously, and I think Tommy and I may have talked about it yesterday. Anybody taking over in the interim role here in Washington with six games left if it were to happen is not going to have a great chance to become the head coach here. Because your schedule right now, as it stands, has four or certainly three definite losses on it. All right? More likely than not Dallas on Thanksgiving. More likely than not San Francisco. More likely than not Miami. I mean, it's the NFL. I understand that as a better. Anything can happen. But they also have the jets and the Rams on the road. Some of you probably think those are wins. it may be that they lose those games too and beat the 49ers or beat the dolphins. But I'm looking at this like they're like best case the rest of the way is three and three.

Worst case is 0 and 6. They're not going 4 and 2 or 5 and 1 the rest of the way. No interim head coach has ever kept the job going 2 and 4 or 3 and 3 the rest of the way. So for Eric B. Enemy, it would be a mistake, I think. So that's number one. But what's more important to me is that Sam Howe is the story the rest of this year. Sam Howe is the priority. Keep Sam's surroundings the same.

Eric B. Enamey is still becoming an offensive coordinator figuring out how to do that job. And he's developing a quarterback here. And I just would leave the priority, Sam, in the same hands that he's been in. in full time. And that's Eric B. Enemies. The other thing, too, I would say is that imagine Sam did take over as an interim head coach and not do well. And then the new head coach comes in and wants to keep Eric B. Enemy as the offensive coordinator with Sam Hal because he did such a good job as an offensive coordinator. It gets a little tricky there, doesn't it? You know, a little bit uncomfortable. Like, hey, I know you just finished up your interim coaching gig, and it didn't go well, but I'd love you to be the OC.

I don't know. I think it's a bad idea, personally. Let Eric Bien to me earn an opportunity to be a candidate as a head coach in this offseason by becoming an outstanding offensive coordinator for the rest of this season with a quarterback that continues to show. an upward track. Like, we said this before the season started. Like Eric Bienami, this is a big year for him, and he's actually kind of got conflicting, you know, motivations from Ron who has to win.

Eric Bianami needed to show that he could be an outstanding offensive coordinator and or develop Sam Howell into a promising starting quarterback in the NFL. both of those things are still very much in play. Like he's got a chance to prove both over these final six games. Some would say he's already proven the latter, and some would say he's already proven the former, and some would say he's proven both already.

I'm not there yet. I want to see six more games, but that's what I would really look at as best for the team and best for Eric B. Enemy, and best for Sam. Most importantly. Sam 40A next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show brought to you by Window Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to WindowNation.com.

Mention my name. You'll get a free estimate right now. A great deal. Window Nation is offering two free windows with every two you purchase. Plus, if you want to finance the purchase, zero percent financing for five years. If you've been thinking about new windows, winter. is coming. You'll save big on your heating bills. Your home will look better. Give them a call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. I promise you you won't go wrong with Window Nation. They'll take good care of you

when they find out that you heard about them on this podcast. Jumping on with us right now is Sam 48 from the Washington Post at Sam 4TR on Twitter. Sam's actually out in Ash. Spurn. Sam Howell just spoke. It is Tuesday, but with a Thursday game, it's quarterback day, and the coach will talk later on today. But I'm curious. I saw these pictures of Sam in a Clemson sweatshirt. Clearly, he lost a bet to somebody because Clemson beat Carolina, his alma mater. Who did he have the bet with, do you know? Yeah, I think it was KJ. Henry, the rookie defensive Vend who within Clemson won a national championship there. He was a freshman, and it seems like he might be the culprit.

All right. So, yeah, I'm trying to think. Are there other, on this roster, how many North Carolina guys are there, Diami Brown? That might be it. And then Clemson, do they have any other Clemson other than KJ. Henry? I think you listed the guys who could be in this bet. nobody else

stands out to me obviously I have some state guys in terms of North Carolina state in terms of James and William Schubert. But in terms of North Carolina, Clemson, I think that's it. All right. So as long as we opened with Sam, let's stick with Sam, 48 from the Washington Post.

So, you know, I thought Sunday was, you know, not his best effort by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't think he was the major culprit in the loss by by far. But, you know, we've got at this point now 11 games of Sam Howell. So I haven't talked to you in a while.

A, how would you evaluate the 11? And B, where do you think it's headed? I mean, A, I would have to evaluate the 11 is very promising. I mean, particularly, I would say, when he cut down on the facts, about week seven or eight. I mean, when he was able to start playing, when the offense really kind of came together, and he was able to get the ball out of his hands and avoid that. Like, that, to me, we always knew he could make plays with his arm and his legs, right? Like, that's the basics.

And I think when he started to eliminate the facts, and particularly when he showed a lot of progress to me, pre-snap against blitzes in New England, you know, when he would see cover zero, he would check and they hit the throat at Johan Dotson. Like, that is the mental growth that I think is really key to him being a legit. a legitimate franchise quarterback in the league. I have been a little bit more conservative than others. I know Jonathan Allen and Jason Kelsey and a lot of, you know, very notable football people have come out and say, like, he can be the guy.

And I think that he can be the guy. But when we transition to Part B, you know, where is it headed? Like, I think that we've seen a lot of promise, but I don't think that he's fully locked himself in yet I still think he has a ways to go. And, I mean, we all know that there's going to be a new regime here in terms of GM and head coach the end of the year. And it's ultimately going to be their call if he's the guy. And I'm sure that Josh Harris would love to hear in an interview between a GM or a head coach.

Like, yeah, we do think Sam can be the guy. But I think the jury is ultimately still out, even though there's a lot of signs towards promise. So it sounds like you and I are kind of on the same page. I mean, I would sum it up the same way. So what do you forget about this idea, which we all understand, a new GM could come in and just have a totally different idea. And by the way, they could have a top five pick by the time the GM gets in. and is looking at the draft, and this is a quarterback, you know, this is a quarterback draft, certainly in the first round.

So what do you think needs to be seen by anybody that will be making the evaluation over these final six games to convince them? Because you're not convinced yet completely, nor am I. What do you need to see to be convinced? I hate to sound like Ron Rivera here, but I do think that when he says him needs to be more consistent, like I buy that, you know? like he needs to show, you know, like a great example is he looks, you know, he looks tough against the Blitz. And I know the line did not help him in the first Giants game.

Then he looks really good against the New England. Then he looks okay against that. I think he gets the Giants last weekend. And obviously they didn't bring as much pressure as they did the first time. But I think you need to see him continue to take steps not only against the Blitz, but like, you know, against certain coverages, against certain looks. and can he consistently make the right read and put throws in the right places? Because, like, yeah, I mean, I don't think he was the reason they lost that last game.

But, you know, when he makes the right read, but then he doesn't connect with Diamie Brown deep, you know, on that post route. Like, that's the guy who he's had more reps with than anybody else. That should have been, you know, not a layup for him, but that's a really favorable matchup. And so to see his ball plays and be off there. I think that's, you know, a little concerning. So I think just showing he can do it week in and week out at a really high. level, like, that is your best argument. Yeah, are you, I wanted to see these games matter, you know, for a little bit longer anyway, you know, not, not sort of end the competitive

portion of the schedule after Thanksgiving, which is a possibility. Now, I just think it's a better measuring, you know, environment when you're playing for stakes, you know, even if it's just mathematical long-shot stakes. And that's the only thing that upsets me about the win on, the loss on Sunday, excuse me, to the Giants is that it kind of ensures that the competitive part of the season is going to end sooner than I would have liked. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think that, you know, kind of I've been thinking back this week to the first time

that we saw Sam against Dallas, right? Like in his first star last year and to your point, like even then, you know, he had some very good moments. He had some low moments, but it just wasn't a large enough sample size. And so, I mean, to you, if these games are not competitive, like, are we, will we have a large enough sample size to know what Sam Howell is? And, you know, obviously, you know, having a new offense this year, having, you know, a couple new pieces, like, have we, will we have seen enough for where we say, okay, you know,

this is this is what we have, is this guy good enough or not? Like, will we have a complete grade? Yeah. I mean, that's, that's the problem. with the problem that I've had with the season finale last year to begin with, is that it was a meaningless game for Washington. They didn't have, you know, all of their main people. I mean, we can talk about Dallas still had a shot at the one seed. The truth is they really didn't have that much of a shot. Philly wasn't going to lose to the Giants, and the Cowboys played that game as if it was

more of a meaningless game. It was probably one of the worst games they played all season, and that just there was no urgency to the game I didn't feel like on either side. So I would have preferred, you know, a game against the Jets on Christmas Eve to be a game that they had to win, you know, to stay alive, just to see him in that environment. You know, is there anything else that's gnawing at you about Sam Howell that makes you believe that, yeah, maybe a starter, but, you know, is it worth passing on a potential, you know, elite player in the draft if you've got a chance to draft one? Yeah, I think, like, I still think he has a tendency to sometimes predetermined reads or predetermined decisions.

I know that, you know, a lot of times you want that, particularly if you're going quick game and you're splitting the field or you're, you know, doing an RPO or whatever. But I still want to see growth from his mental game in particular. I think that is something that I'd like to see more of it. Again, and I think that he has shown a lot of growth, a lot of improvement. But when you say if there's something gnawing, and his ability to stay. smart, right? Because he takes, he's had a really high stack rate all three years of college and this year in the NFL still. I think those are still major concerns with his game that even though he's played pretty well and he's kept the sacks down for that, you know,

three, four games stretch. Like, they still pop back up last week. And I think there's still a fair concern going forward. So, you know, if you're, if you have a top seven pick and you have three in the top 40 and you have the ammo to go up to one, if you like Drake May or you like Caleb Williams, like one of the other guys, like, I think that's going to be a really difficult decision for general manager if Sam can't, you know, be more consistent and address some of those things that we just talked about and really slam the door shut on this thing. I agree with a lot of what you just said. I would add for me, I, the thing that still just kind gnaws at me when I watch him is that he is a shorter quarterback, a boxier shorter quarterback,

and I think sometimes he looks that in the pocket. You know, there are passes that are deflected. There are times where he can't see it very well because of the size in front of him. That's always been an issue for a shorter quarterback. You know, West Coast distributor, best kind of football for him, a coach that creates those passing lanes like Sean Payton did for Breeze over and over again. I don't know. That would be just the one thing that still, in addition to some

of the things that you said, that still I wonder about. I mean, I wonder about a lot less than I did before the season started. There are just some times when I watch him, when I see a shorter quarterback who at least in the pocket kind of plays short. Yeah, I guess when you say play small, Is it more of a pocket awareness thing? Is it more of a badded passes thing? Like how is that, I guess, what are some of the manifestations in terms of like? It's all of that. And I think for me it's really more when he's in the pocket, pure drop back, has to go through progressions, has to throw with anticipation.

I think it's harder. I think that's usually when we see the deflected passes. I think sometimes that's when we see him, you know, throw less accurately. And it's certainly when we see him take more of the pressure and it results in a sack. I think what you have in Hal right now, and this is subject to change, although the height's never going to change, is you've got a guy that's a really good distributor, a really good West Coast offense quarterback who is also terrific off schedule. you know, and his ability to create with mobility and vision and all of those things. Right, and I think this kind of goes to your point about them struggling to connect downfield,

which I've been surprised by this year, I think honestly, because when you go back and look at the things he was successful at Carolina, like, I know they moved the pocket, I know it was a little bit different, but, like, he really threw a nice deep ball, and I still think he does, but, you know, kind of like the Diami Brown throw that we're talking about, or, you know, there was one against New England. I think maybe to Curtis that they didn't hit. And it's just been a thing throughout the year

where they've been trying to solve the quarterback throwing down field problem for a long time, like they've been trying to solve the quarterback problem at large for a long time. But I think that that's an area of his game that I thought would be better. Because, you know, the first game when he has the cover two whole shot to tarry down the right sideline, like that's the thing I thought we would be seeing more consistently than we have this year as well.

And so I think that's one of the other things, kind of to go back to your earlier question about what I want to see improve from him is. And, like, you know, I think E.B. has been a pretty good job dialing up shop plays. I think that, you know, this offense would benefit greatly if they hit a couple more of them. But that's something that has been a little bit off. Yeah, when they take those shots first down, under center play action,

and you've got a cleaner pocket. He looks great. So where are you just in terms of your hunch today? is he the starting quarterback in 2024, do they bypass any quarterbacks in the draft and do they end up focusing on just building around Sam?

It's a tough question to answer because I feel like the question before that question is who do they hire as GM and who do they hire as head coach? And do they get one of those, do they get a young offensive guru whether it be Sloick

or Johnson or one of those guys? I mean, and do those guys think, oh, this guy can be a guy, because if you come in and, and I think that maybe the question even before that is, does Josh Harris view Sam as the answer? Or does he put any premium in his interviews on a GM or head coaching candidate saying Sam is the guy? You know, like, if he goes into it and there's two GM candidates that he likes and one of them says Sam's the guy and one of them says Sam isn't, like, is that going to cause you to lean one way or the other? I think I'm, The thing I'm most curious about is, what does Josh Harris think of Sam Howell?

And would he let that influence his decision-making? Because then we can start the cascade of is Sam, the quarterback here in 24. I mean, if you're asking me to take a shot in the dark with a lot of unknown information, I would tend to say, yes, I don't think they'll be high enough to get May or Williams. And I think that for the GM to come in and take a shot, you know, for a new GM to come in and take a shot and say, hey, I'm going to move up and get one of those guys. you'd be a pretty bold start to the regime, even though this is a good quarterback draft. But I guess the question I'm curious about is what does Josh Harris really think?

And does he let it influence him? I personally hope that he doesn't have a strong thought that turns him away from the best general manager candidate because of his preference of quarterback or not quarterback on Sam. Yes or no on Sam. I just hope he picks the best overall general manager candidate. Let's him decide. Like what you just described, it isn't Dan-esque, but it's like Dan wasn't going to hire anybody this last go-round that didn't say I'm going to give Dwayne Haskins a legitimate chance to be my quarterback. And I would just prefer that Josh end up hiring the best general manager candidate, regardless of the preference of,

Sam Hal after one season. But these last six games, like I think they're so important. I actually think Thursday's game is a big spot for Sam. You know, he's bounced back off of every poor outing he's had, week two against Denver, week four against Philadelphia. The game, you know, after the Bears game was the Falcons game. They played at least a good half against the Falcons. Off the first giant game, we had the most consistency,

see three really good games in a row. I think it's a big spot for him, and I'm guessing that he's going to play well and they'll play well offensively. What do you think? Yeah, I think I agree with you that it's an important spot. And I think also, you know, even though Sam, and I'm going to take a step back from on the field for second, because I think that everybody knows Dallas is a really good defensive line. I think they're probably going to go quick game. You know, they're going to need to get the ball out of his hands because Michael Parsons is going to be a problem. I guess people know that. But the thing I'm curious about is the vocal leadership on this team has either been absent or ineffective.

I think it's clear to see that, and especially during the Giants game. And so I'm curious if Sam at 23 is a first year starter, I'm not saying he has to be a big rah-rah guy. I'm not saying he has to, you know, dump his chest because I think we know that's not who Sam is. But can he, in a subtle way, you know, help his team overcome this? Like, can he be a resilient leader? because even though he's the quarterback, he is young, and I don't think we've seen him take that sort of leadership role yet. And so I'm curious, like, in a tough situation,

when you're staring down six games where you're not going to have a lot to play for in all likelihood, can he still get the offense? Can he help get guys ready? And, like, that might sound a little squishy, and that might sound, you know, I don't know, like it's hard to quantify that, but I do think it's a real thing because I think this team needs it right now. Yeah, like there's no vocal leadership on this team, is there?

I mean, I think that, like, there are guys who are pounding their chest and, you know, yelling and, you know, publicly doing it, but I just, I don't see it internally. I don't see it manifest on the field because, like, how is someone saying, you know, how is someone not saying, like, it's not good enough to come out flat against the Giants? You know what I mean? Like, I think that those are moments where you say, where is it? Like, you know, I think Terry McClorn is a good leader. He's a lead by example guy. He's been a little bit more vocal. But like, I just, I don't see it throughout the locker room right now. You know, that actually leads into what, well, it speaks to what Tom was saying, Levero on the podcast with me yesterday. And we were debating, which I'm going to, you know, I'm going to ask you about right now, if something should be done with Ron or Jack or somebody should fall for, you.

you know, the overall record and the, you know, the two losses to the Giants, the loss to the bears. And we know that this was a short week, but maybe Friday, who knows, and Tom. And I said, look, what's the point really? You know, typically these things happen if you've got a toxic locker room, if you've got people, you know, who really are, like what happened with Josh McDaniels, what clearly happened with Matt Canada in Pittsburgh where, you know, the players couldn't, you know, the players were now, you know, starting to roll their eyes. And we haven't seen that happen here.

So Tom said that it doesn't have to be that. It can be complacency. You know, they could be trying to, you know, make a statement about complacency. And it's almost what I think you just kind of described there, is that somebody's got to step up and make that place less complacent. Yeah, I think that's a good way to summarize it. And the thing, I think it would be easier. make a move with Ron than Jack.

And I get why people want Jack to be gone. Like they've allowed a ton of explosive plays. I think they lead the league with 88. They've not been, you know, near what they were supposed to be. And they're losing confidence of their players. You know, John Allen talks about like we're not a great defense weeks ago. And I totally get that. But the logistics behind that, like, if you fire Jack Del Rio,

the only person on staff with defensive play calling experience, and I'm sure you've gotten into this for listeners before, but like it's Ron Rivera. And I don't think that people, would be happier with a Ron Rivera called defense than a Jack Del Rio called defense. And so if you look at that, you say, okay, who is our defensive play caller if it's not Jack? Like, I just don't think that there is, like, an immediate upgrade there, you know? And so I question, like, are you just making moves to make moves, or are you actually trying to

meaningfully improve the club? And if you say, like, we're complacent and we need to address that, then I think the answer there is, like, it's wrong. But I don't know if that makes the team better, you know? Yeah, I mean If you do that, then you say, okay, like, who are we elevating? We're not going to elevate Jack, probably.

Are we going to elevate Eric Dehmi? Are we going to take him away from preparing a quarterback who, you know, could or could not be the franchise? I'm not saying that E.B. couldn't get to work with Sam. But, like, I think that his job right now, as often as coordinator, it's very linked to Sam, and he's focused on his developments. Are you going to put more on his plate? I just, I don't know if making a move makes sense.

I'm with you. I don't know what it does. other than to perhaps appease some of the, you know, fans that want somebody's backside for what happened on Sunday and what's happened this year. And your point about Bienemy I made in the open to the show, I don't see where it makes sense for Eric Bianami to be the interim head coach for the team or for him, quite frankly,

because I think Sam should be the number one focus the rest of the way. and if Bienemy's been a big part of the development of Sam Hal, which, you know, he has been, I don't want to pull him off that job. And from his standpoint, to be honest with you, it's setting him up to fail. I mean, this team's going to finish 1 and 5, 2 and 4 down the stretch. You know, no interim coach is going to get the head coaching job going 1 and 5 or 2 and 4 down the stretch. And then I think there's an awkwardness potentially with the new head coach that comes in that may want to keep Eric Bianmi on as the offensive coordinator. So I think there's a lot that doesn't make sense to the B-Enemy thing.

And you made the point on Del Rio. Like, you know, okay, great, Jack's gone. You got your wish. That means Ron's calling the defensive signals. How happy are you with that? But, yeah. What do you think will happen? I mean, my instinct right now is that they don't make moves

is that they continue to let this play out. I think that Josh Harris's own sports organizations before, you know, this is not Dan, this is not David Tepper in Carolina. Like, this is a guy who has a lot of experience. And, you know, kind of to your point about, you know, the GM hire that we were talking about earlier, like, this is a guy that went out in basketball, got Darrell Maury, got one of the, you know, best regarded, one of the most autonomous GMs in the NBA, and is letting him do his thing, even through the James Hardin saga, although there was a report that he stepped in and ultimately talked with Balmer to a facility. take the trade in the clippers.

But, like, what I'm saying is that, for the most part, like, Josh lets his guys do their thing. And I know that, you know, he's made in-season coaching decisions before twice with the devil. But to me, like, I think that Josh is looking long-term here. And I could see an argument for doing something, particularly with the complacency and show in the locker room, like, hey, I'm tapped in. But I could also see an argument before this isn't going to meaningfully improve us. So I'm not just going to, like, put a head on the stake to, like, appease some fans for him at. And I get that fans might not like to hear that. But this is a guy who builds organizations and who has had a pretty good track record of reviving them and making them competitive.

So I think it's a fascinating approach for him. I think these are the decisions before his first hires in terms of GM and head coach that will tell us a little bit about how Josh is going to own this team. Yeah. Good points. Good conversation. As always, I appreciate it. Hope you're well. I'll talk to you soon.

Happy Thanksgiving. Of course. Thanks so much, Kevin. I appreciate it. I'll finish up with just a couple of thoughts on last night's Monday night game of the year, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. He can put a ball just about anywhere on the field and trying to cover him up. This is not easy. Heirs it out. Downfield incomplete. And the Eagles take over.

That was the final chance for the Chiefs last night against the Eagles. it was a fourth and 25, and Patrick Mahomes dropped back, stepped up into the pocket, and fired one right through Watson's hands. Like, how often do you see a fourth and 25 where you've got a quarterback that can actually throw in rhythm, in progression, a ball to a receiver, 26, 27 yards downfield? I thought that was better than the throw to Valdez Scantling that Scantling dropped for the touchdown on the play before. Play before or two plays before, whatever it was. We'll get to that Monday night game to finish up the show here in a moment. Thanksgiving two days away.

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Patrick Mahomes was, dive under the center and go for the interception? Carter said he's seen it on YouTube before in a high school game. Mahomes trying to kill the clock, gets up to the line of scrimmage, takes a snap, spikes the ball, and Carter is diving under the center trying to catch the spike as an interception. That would have been an all-time play. What a great idea. But again, he said he didn't have the idea. The game last night, wow, a defensive game,

I did give the underout yesterday, not as a smell test pick, but I did lean under in the game on the podcast yesterday. Look, the Eagles came back from 10 down at Arrowhead. They did not allow points in the second half against the Chiefs. The Chiefs are struggling right now on offense. They lead the league in dropped passes with 26.

They had five of them last night, including two on that final drive. The Eagles weren't doing much offensively either until they had to. Down 17, 14, 14th quarter, Jalen Hertz leads an 80-yard drive in seven plays where he goes four for six for 79 yards, throws a perfect 41-yard pass. to Devante Smith down to the Chiefs 1, and then they go brotherly shove, and it's 2117, Philadelphia. The Eagles are 9 and 1. Second straight year, they're 9 and 1. They got to 13 and 1 last year, if you recall, before Hertz got hurt, and Minchu came in and lost a couple of games. They've got Buffalo at home this week, San Francisco at home the following week, then they're at Dallas and at Seattle. How about that for the next four games?

Philadelphia, Buffalo, San Francisco at home, at Dallas, at Seattle. And that leads me to this. Philadelphia is really good. I don't even know if they've played their best game. They talked about that afterwards. The chiefs need to find some receivers who can catch Mahomes' passes. The favorite to be the one seed in the NFC is Philadelphia. I think Detroit's got a chance, though.

They're only a game behind Philadelphia, and they're going to be favored in the rest of their games, with the exception of one. They play at Dallas in late December. Imagine Detroit's the one seed in the NFC. Now, Philadelphia just won at Arrowhead. So I think Philly can win anywhere. I think San Francisco can win anywhere.

But if the Lions are the one seed, they have not played a home playoff game in Detroit since 93. Since 93, they haven't won a playoff game since 91. They beat the Cowboys at home in 91 and then came to RFK for the NFL. NFC championship game prior to Super Bowl 26. But I think Detroit's got a decent chance, decent chance to be the one seed in the NFC. The Eagles, man, they just figure out a way, though, don't they?

Well-coached, top to bottom in the league, maybe the best roster. And they just, they've got a big win. They got revenge last night on the Chiefs for the Super Bowl. I think they'd swap games in a heartbeat. And meantime, the Chiefs, they, you know, they're sitting there at seven and three. So are the Jacksonville Jaguars. So are Miami and Baltimore is eight and three. I mean, Kansas City under Mahomes, has never played a road playoff game.

Maybe this is the year. I'd love to see him have to go to Baltimore, go to Jacksonville for a playoff game. I want to see Mahomes in a road playoff game. Good game last night, hard hitting, intense, defensive-oriented. not always, you know, super clean offensively, but a pretty intense Monday night game. All right, back tomorrow with Tommy, get you ready for Thanksgiving Day in Dallas.