The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sam's Jump On Jacoby

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Kevin opened with the NBA Finals, the NFL/Josh Harris finance meeting in NYC, and memories of 5 years ago tonight (Caps) and 45 years ago tonight (Bullets). Then it was Sam Fortier/Washington Post with what he thinks and knows about the legitimacy of Washington's summer "QB competition". They talked surprise 2023 Commanders' contributor, Chase Young, and more. Steve Sands/Golf Channel-NBC was a guest on the show to explain what the hell happened yesterday in golf with the "merger" between the PGA and LIV Tour.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show today. Sam 48 from the Washington Post will jump on with us in a few minutes. Sam's just leaving Ashburn after day two of mandatory minicamp.

He's also written this morning about the quarterback competition. I put that in air quotes. But Sam will talk to us about what he thinks and what he thinks. learned. He's the one, by the way, yesterday who asked Ron Rivera if there's still, in his view, if he thinks there's still a quarterback competition. And Ron Rivera said, I do think there's a quarterback competition. So we'll talk to Sam about that and a lot more as day two of minicamp is now over. And then after Sam, our good friend Steve Sands from the golf channel and from NBC Sports. Steve will jump on with us to explain the bombshell announcement from yesterday

regarding the PGA Tour and the Live Tour. We'll get him to walk through what this means, and I think he will be able to explain it very well. He's usually very good at doing that. So Sam 48 first and then Steve Sands after that. Before that, a couple of things to get to. First of all, let me mention that today's show is brought to you by, our good friends at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag and use my promo code Kevin D.C. to secure a first deposit bonus of up to $1,000. You have to use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to claim your bonus. Miami tonight in game three of the NBA finals, a two and a half point underdog to Denver at MyBooky. He's got all of the NFL prop bets for the upcoming season, the week one lines.

You can find the week two lines at MyBooky if you're interested in that. But go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code Kevin D.C. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with My Booky. By the way, on the radio show today, Randy Whitman was my guest. We've had Randy on the podcast. We've had them on the radio show. He's excellent as a guest, as a basketball analyst.

We talked a lot about the NBA finals, but we also talked a lot about for you Maryland basketball fans, Big Ten basketball, because he helps out Mike Woodson, the head coach at Indiana, Randy Whitman's alma mater. Mike Woodson was his teammate on the Bobby Knight teams in the mid to late 70s. But Randy Whitman, always an excellent guest. I always enjoy talking to him. You can listen to that at the Team 980.com or by downloading the Odyssey app.

I do want to read a review, by the way. This review comes from Johnny So saucy. Johnny So saucy wrote a nice review on Apple Podcasts reviews. Gave us five stars. and he wrote, Nuggets slash Skins fan from Colorado. Kevin, I finally got around to writing you a review. Never been to D.C. I'm from Colorado. My father has been a huge skins fan ever since they lost to the undefeated dolphins in 1972.

So naturally, I became a diehard skins fan watching them my whole life. I also, in capital letters, he writes, really hate the cowgirls. So again, naturally, I became a Redskins fan at a young age. I'm also a huge Nuggets fan. So to hear you talk about my favorite football team is one thing, but I've been loving your analysis on the Nuggets. Tom is dead wrong when saying this isn't some of the most high-level basketball play we've ever seen. It is.

I believe this Nuggets team will win multiple championships. We haven't seen a team this talented since the 72 win, Chicago Bulls team. I don't know, maybe I'm biased in saying that, but it's been exceptional basketball play from Denver. Anyway, greatly appreciate the show. Love the podcast, guests you have on, especially the recent podcast talking about the NFL rest metrics.

Yeah, that was with Warren Sharp, right? I think it was with Warren Sharp, talking about sort of the NFL schedule and looking at the days rest that teams have. And Washington's at the top of the list in terms of the most rest days on their NFL schedule this year. And that has in recent years translated into more over their season totals than under. And if you have less rest, it's a better bet in recent years to bet under the season total. Washington's season total, by the way, at my Bookie, I've got to pull it back up, but I think it was six and a half recently in terms of their over-under number for the upcoming season.

Regular season wins. Washington at mybooky.com, my-booky.ag, their over-under number is six and a half. Over six and a half, you have to lay minus 121. Under six and a half, you have to lay minus 101. one, but because they have, along with, I think it was the Bears and somebody else, the most rest days between games in aggregate over the total entirety of the season, the Warren Sharp suggested that this should lead you to consider betting the over six and a half on Washington this year. I wish their number were at eight and a half and betting over would

mean a winning season. That would be nice. To have a winning season to win nine games or more for the first time since 2016. That would be nice. But anyway, I'll read from the rest of the review from Johnny So saucy. Johnny writes, anyway, greatly appreciate the show. Love the podcast. Love the NFL Rest Metrics podcast. That's exactly why you are my favorite skins. podcast to listen to. You always have great outside the box that bring incredible perspective to the game of football. Keep them coming, Kevin. God bless you, and HTTR.

Sincerely, John, from Northern Colorado. Thank you, John, for that very nice review. And the five stars. If you haven't rated or reviewed us on Apple or Spotify, it would be great if you would do it.

It takes 30 seconds, five stars, one to two sentence. You don't have to write as much as John did, but I appreciate that, John, and I appreciate everything you wrote. Also, it's important to follow us on Apple and Spotify. That's a big help as well. If you hit that follow button on the Apple podcast app homepage, it's in the upper right-hand corner on Spotify. It's down the left-hand side, about midway down. Most of you do listen on Apple podcasts on your iPhones. I would imagine. I would imagine. Many of you listen on Spotify. Many of you listen on lots of other podcast platforms.

Some of you even listen through our website, the kevin-shean show.com. But certainly, if you haven't rated or reviewed us, and if you haven't followed us, it's a big help for us if you can do it. By the way, on tonight's game, I don't have a good feel for it at all. I'm just enjoying watching these games. At this point, I don't know if I would even think about betting against Miami. I still think Denver will win the series, and I think Denver will win the series in seven games. That was my pick before the series started. I was wobbly after game one, but I think we'll see a longer series. But at this point, I don't know what's going to happen. This is unpredictable. But Miami's, you know, too well-coached, too tough, too resilient, too

I think, you know, lose the next three anyway. So I think we're going to see at least a six game series. The ratings, by the way, for the NBA finals are down as anticipated because of the two markets and the two teams that are in it. The, you know, ratings were through the roof through the first three rounds of the postseason, through the conference finals. But I think everybody that follows this stuff expected a step back with Denver Miami, especially considering last year we had Golden State and Miami. All right, just a couple of things to get to real quickly before we bring Sam 48 onto the show.

First of all, today is the day that Josh Harris is meeting with, along with Mitchell Rails, by the way, and I think a few others, meeting with the NFL's finance committee in New York. Now, as of the recording of this podcast, I don't have any of what's coming out of this, but I think what we hope will come out of it is they have, you know, come to an agreement on any sort of tweaks to the financial structure of the deal. Hopefully the finance committee at this point, and the league has finished the vetting of all of the limited partners. I mean, how long can that actually take? and maybe we'll get, you know, some sort of indication that the 32 owners, which would include the Snyders at this point, will vote sooner rather than later. I, you know, even in the post story this morning written by Mark Maskey and Nikki Javala, you know, in one of the last paragraphs, they still talk about that, you know, they're hopeful of getting a vote by late July or August. I don't know why they should wait that long.

If the Finance Committee and the Josh Harris Group can get whatever, you know, outstanding items are out there, you know, agreed upon, let's get this thing to the owners and have them vote by Zoom. But as we've talked about before, apparently they don't do that. And they're on their vacations. And they won't do it by conference call or won't do it by Zoom. And they'll do it when they do it. I think that's ridiculous. I think this sale is different, as I've discussed before. I think they're holding up a market that's waited a long time for this,

and they should feel very, very fortunate that Dan's gone or is about to be gone, and somebody paid $6 billion for the team. By the way, there are pictures of Josh Harris and Mitchell Rails arriving at NFL offices in Manhattan for this meeting. And if you haven't seen it, and I'm sure you have it this, point. And my son, my youngest son, lives in New York, and he was sending us pictures earlier this morning. The smoke from all of those wildfires in Canada. I mean, New York's sky is yellow. They have the worst air quality by an amount of double the next worst in the world right now. And our air quality here in D.C. is terrible as well. And I ran out between the radio show and the

recording of this podcast to get some lunch. And it is hazy and it is smoky. I had Doug Cameron on the radio show this morning as well, our good friend from Channel 4, the weather guy from Channel 4. Doug's a great guy. And he did say that he's got, you know, hope that the winds will change and that the smoke will be gone by the time we get to the weekend. But a wild scene for those of us on the East Coast, the Northeast in particular, and areas in the Midwest, like Detroit apparently is really awful as well. But yes, today was the day and that meeting is taking place right now in the NFL offices in Manhattan between Josh Harris, Mitchell Rails. And I would imagine maybe, I don't know, I don't know who else from the Harris Group is there. But hopefully they can get things worked out and we can get this thing moving.

and finalized. I also wanted to play this for you. This was five years ago tonight. Off the face off the Capitals that won it. Capital of the hockey playoffs. They rush out onto the ice to congratulate Rayden Holby. The Washington Capitals for the first time in their 44-year history are the Stanley Cup champions. I can't believe it's been five years since the Caps are.

won the Stanley Cup. The great Doc Emmerich, by the way, on the call that night. Out in Vegas is the caps who won the game four to three to win the series four games to one. I'll still never forget the Alex Ovechkin just screaming out with incredible joy as if truly a 10,000 pound lead weight was lifted off of his shoulders. An incredible memory from five years ago tonight. And look, I've mentioned this many times over the years. I'm not a Caps fan. I just, for whatever reason, I just have never really taken to the Caps. I'm not a big hockey fan, especially during the regular season.

I do love the playoffs. I've actually watched a couple of the periods from these first two Stanley Cup games, and they've both been won easily by Vegas. But that run by the Capitals back in 2018 to a Stanley Cup was really quite incredible. You know, the thing about that run, if you recall, is it started very ominously. I mean, they were nearly out in the first round of the postseason against, by the way, Columbus. Columbus won those first two games of that series in overtime in Washington. And the caps were on their way back to Columbus down to nothing.

And then they were down in game three. It went to overtime in game three, if I recall. I forget if they were down in that game. But game three went to overtime. So they were one shot away from being down three nothing. And then, of course, in the conference final, They were down three, two against Tampa and had to win in Tampa in game seven, and they won games six and seven, both by shutouts.

Braden Holby was amazing. And then they got Vegas. They lost that first game. Game two will forever be remembered for that Braden Holpie save, which was incredible. And then they won the two home games and won game five in Vegas to win the Stanley Cup. But, you know, the hockey postseason is a true crapshoot. I mean, we've seen it this year. You know, Boston, best record during the regular season and out, you know,

out in the first round to a team in Florida who was essentially the eight seed, and they're in the Stanley Cup finals, amazingly. And Washington, that particular year, you know, it was, they're on the ropes. They're on the ropes, by the way, against Bobvroski. the goaltender for Florida right now. He was the goaltender for Columbus, if you recall. He's the goaltender for Florida in the Stanley Cup finals right now, and they're on the verge potentially of going down three games to nothing in their first round series.

And then, you know, they were in trouble against Tampa down three, two. But they survived and they ended up winning a Stanley Cup. And that is, you know, massive for Ted Leonis. You know, I would never, ever suggest for a second that Ted Leonis and Dan Snyder, you know, belong in the same sentence together. They don't. Ted is a totally different human being, number one. Number two, he has built good businesses in professional sports, built good businesses. Dan inherited a good business.

and screwed it up. The caps were, you know, not the business that they are today. Certainly drafting Alex Ovechkin and having that opportunity was huge. But I've said this all along. Ted understands the customer. And he treats the customer much differently, you know, than Dan Snyder. But with respect to results of the teams that he owns, if they hadn't gotten that cup in 2018,

you know, I don't know that he'd get the pass that he gets. And I don't know, I'm not even suggesting he gets a pass. I think a lot of us who are diehard Wizards fans understand what's gone on here over a long period of time. And, you know, I don't even blame him for keeping Ernie as long as he did. I know most of you do. I don't blame him for turning it over to Tommy Shepard, but I do blame him for consistently, you know,

thinking small when it's come to the basketball franchise. I would prefer for them to have thought big all along, even if that meant, you know, not trying to create teams that could win 43, 44 games and get a playoff series. By the way, Randy Whitman and I were talking about some of their playoff series that he coached, I thought, and I've said this before, I think Randy was an excellent basketball coach. You ask any basketball person, they'll tell you Randy Whitman could X and owe it up with anybody. And those teams were pretty decent teams.

You know, John Wall doesn't get hurt in 2015. They're in the Eastern Conference Finals against Cleveland. Hell, in that first year where they went to the postseason, they won twice at Indiana. Almost won three times at Indiana. I ended up losing that series because they couldn't win a home game. But they were close to the Eastern Conference finals that year. I think Randy was a much better basketball coach than Scott Brooks was. I think Scott Brooks may have been better on the getting along with players kind of a thing,

which I know is important in the NBA. But the basketball franchise has been a disaster forever. And the hockey franchise, if they hadn't gotten the cup, They would have been one of the more disappointing franchises in NHL history to have a guy that will ultimately be the all-time leading goal scorer and having gone to just, you know, won NHL finals. Now, they did win it. And if they hadn't won it that year, I'm just saying that's sort of the category that they would be in. By the way, speaking of the basketball team, you know, they are on the verge, hasn't been officially announced of hiring that GM. Will Dawkins, and everybody seems excited about their three hires here.

And we'll see. They've got to draft well. They've got to find a player that's a top five talent, you know, and develops into that in three to four years. And I don't know if they'll do that or not. They drafted very well in Oklahoma City. But I mentioned and played the highlight for you about five years ago tonight was the win in the Stanley Cup. Well, 45 years ago tonight, This happened. So we're coming down to this, a cliffhanger. They give it to Dennis Johnson. He'll spin the left side to the corner.

Long jumper off the back of the rim. Until the long rebound, shuffles the downreach. The bullets are going to win for the first time he has a major sport. June 7, 1978. The Bullets won the NBA title. That was the Frank Herzog call of the final few seconds of game. 7 in Seattle. Washington had won game 6

at home to force a 7th in deciding game. Game 6, by the way, is one of those games that's available on YouTube, the whole game 6. You want to hear how loud and how raucous and how into it. Bullets fans were back then. Go

find that thing and watch that. They dominated game 6. They won by 35 points at the time. I think it was the largest margin of victory ever in an NBA finals game. They went back to Seattle for the seventh and deciding game and they won it 105 to 99. Wes Unseld hit a couple of key free throws late and Washington had their first major pro sports champion in 36 years, as Frank Herzog had said. The 36 years prior to that was the 1942 Redskins who had

won the world championship. But that was quite a memory. from being a young person and being at a lot of those games in 78 and 79 specifically. With my dad and going to a lot of those bullets playoff games were great, and that's when I became just a massive bullets fan. And I would like them to be called the Bullets again, but I don't think that'll ever happen. All right. Up next, Sam Fortier from the Washington Post, right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

All right. jumping on with us right now is Sam 40A from the Washington Post. At Sam, the number four, TR on Twitter. He's just leaving Ashburn after day two of minicamp, and he's written a column about the quarterback situation. Yeah, we're going to talk about the quarterback situation again. Why not? This column is titled,

the commanders are all in on Sam Howl, but don't forget Jacoby Brissette. And we played Sam's questions to Ron Rivera yesterday and Ron Rivera's answers. So when you say, and I know you don't write the headlines, but when you say or when the headline says, don't forget about Jacoby Brissette, what does that mean? Do you believe that Brissette's actually got a shot at this thing? No, in the sense that I don't think he will outplay Sam Howell and win the job in camp. I think that they will give Sam every chance to win the job. And basically, if it makes sense to not lose the job, I mean, I think that this is Sam Howell's job

because for a lot of reasons, I think that his promise, his mobility, the ability that Ron Rivera could have in this regime would have to sell a vision to new ownership. hey, we have a young ascending quarterback is a lot more attractive than, you know, basically we punt it on the situation again, and we have to go find one. There's a lot of reasons why I think Sam Howell, you know, is the guy. But if he does get injured, if he does fall apart, which I don't think is out of the question,

I'm not saying it's likely, but I don't think it's impossible. Jacoby Brissette will be their guy. And, you know, it felt valuable to me to revisit where he's at, particularly because Ron Rivera is still maintaining, payment as the competition. I know he's just saying that, but it felt worth revisiting where Jacoby-Bressette is at, considering that this team has not only used one quarterback over a whole season since 2017. Right. So I want to keep the conversation to be, you know, opening day,

September 10th, coming out of camp, barring injury, what we think will happen. And by the way, I'm glad you asked those questions yesterday because the bottom line is we don't know what we're going to get from Ron Rivera with these answers because, It tends to be the most convenient answer or the one that he thinks he can sell the most in the moment. You know, it's not the first time he's talked about competition with, you know, the hope of Sam Hal is kind of, you know, getting these first opportunities. But you said something, and I want to make sure I'm clear on this. You said that you don't think it'll be Jacoby Brissette because you don't think Brissette will beat Sam Hal out. Like, you know, as in beat him out clearly.

you know, where they have no choice. Why do you think that? Well, I want to be clear that I do think that he won't outplay him, but even if he does appoint him, I still think that the team could opt. You know, and actually, if we could pause here, who ultimately makes this decision? Eric Bianney. Eric B. Enemy. I agree with you. I agree with you. But I think that, you know, if Berset clearly outplayed Howell, I wonder if Ron Rivera would

put his thumb on the scale there, or at least make a strong argument. Because I think we're in agreement that Eric B. Enemy makes that call. That's a part of giving him the autonomy and saying, hey, come in and build this offense. But I think that if, if for that clearly outplayed howl, then they would have a little bit more interesting of a situation. But I think that the enemy and Rivera and everybody else is pretty much on the same page, that they need to figure out what they have in Sam Hal. But basically give him this offense to say, hey, you know, could he be the guy?

Because we think it's possible. But, you know, maybe, you know, nobody knows how likely it is right now. He has a higher floor, excuse me, a higher ceiling, but a lower floor than Bressett, they've got to figure out what they have. So I don't think Bressett will outplay him, but I also think that even, I don't think it's possible even if he did, that that would result in him being the starter. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean, I think the way I have framed it is, you know, tie goes to Hal and even a narrow loss in a, you know, in whatever this competition or whatever the reps look like, that goes to Sam Hal too. as long as they believe coming out of the summer that there is a potential future with Sam Howe. But the way that it would be flipped and Jacoby Brissette would be the starter on opening day is if it becomes clear to Eric Bianamy,

and maybe by extension everybody else, that Sam Howe is such a developmental project and there's no guarantee at the end of it that, or there's, it's not that there's no, there's no, guarantee, that the feeling is that at the end of it, they likely wouldn't have a bona fide starter in the NFL. I mean, they've all been around guys. They know what they look like, even at this stage. And if they felt that way, then Bienemy's got to be careful because either he has to develop Sam Hal. There's got to be incremental progress. So at the end of the year, it looks like Eric Bienemy did a great job with Sam Hal, Sam, regardless of the record, or he's got to elevate this offense to a level that, you know, combined with what we think will be a really good defense, you end up with a winning team and potentially a playoff team, and that might be with Berset.

I'm glad you brought up the tie to Eric Bidney because obviously he bet a lot by coming here. He bet big on saying, hey, this is the opportunity in which I will show everyone. It wasn't just Patrick Mahomes. It wasn't just Andy Reid. I am a brilliant offense of mind in my own right. And so to me, like you said, like if he knows, here's the thing. The home run for Eric B. Enemy is you take Sam Howell and you turn him into a really good quarterback and your offense is great and you pick up from where you were. I think if, you know, they're a mediocre offense that has some moments, I think that Eric B.M.

He could say, hey, look, you know, I did my absolute best, but I was saddled by an experienced quarterback or an inherently limited quarterback in 20 percent. The thing that I think would reflect poorly on him is if this, you know, this offense doesn't make any progress from last. year, which I don't think will happen. But if they come out and if Stan Howell is unplayable and Jacobi Bresset takes a massive step back, I think that's when you start saying, okay, maybe it's not the ingredient, maybe it's the cook. And maybe Eric B.mending was benefiting from Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes and all of the guys they had on offense.

Again, I don't think that's a likelihood scenario, but I think that's the only way Eric Bionmi really loses. And so him going to Kobe Berset, to me, would be the more conservative, the safer option, hey, you know, he can still do what we want to do, but just not as well as Sam. I think one of the things that's been, that's highlighted that to me is how much to Vita Pritcher, the new quarterback's coach, loves running off-platform drills, you know, that the five practices you've seen so far this spring. That is a thing they are doing constantly.

It's pretty much baked into every position drill, and it's not something you saw Scott Turner and Ken Zampi do as much. This is, you know, today it was, you know, shuffling through the bags and like kind of underhand tossing. the ball back and forth, and then making a quick throw at the end of it. You know, every play has a component where you're shuffling your feet, I feel like, and, you know, hey, the blitz is coming. You've got to lob it up against covered zero off your back foot.

They drill that so much, and that is not bad at that by any means. So it's such a big part of the offense. I think that's where you have to say, Sam Howell is going to be your guy that unlocks this thing if you can get in there. By the way, I want to just make sure everybody's clear on this. when you say they're working on off platform, you're talking about actually practicing kind of off-schedual plays by the quarterback.

Yeah, absolutely. It's not all, hey, this is a three-step drops, it's a five-step drop, seven-step. Hey, you know, in this situation, you're flushed out, or a guy's in your face, or, you know, you take two and a half steps, but the guys are the rushes in your face, you've got to just lob this thing off your back foot. And that is not something they did a ton of last year.

Cooley used to say to me all the time, he goes, I have told Jay, I've told Sean, I've told everybody, why don't we practice the off-schedule stuff? The, you know, our first, second, third option's not there. Why don't we practice quarterback, you know, off-schedule trying to make a play in what everybody else's role should be? And it sounds maybe like they did that in Kansas City. So I want to just go back to the B-enemy thing for a moment. because I don't know why we are, and I'm not saying that you're the only one, because I think a lot of people are completely discounting the possibility that we get through a summer and Sam isn't what they have, you know, claimed him to be in their moments of kind of this used car sales pitch that we've heard from them on occasion. You know, mock drafters had him ranked much higher.

You know, receivers couldn't believe last year in practice how the ball was there when they turned around. You know, all of the Ron moments where it's been like he's been pitching, you know, some old, you know, Oldsmobile on a lot somewhere. Why are we so bought into, well, really the floor is kind of high with Sam Howell? Oh, I have not budded on on the floor as high with Sam Howl, certainly. I mean, I said earlier, I think that the floor is much lower with Sam than it is with Jacoby, just because he's thrown 19 patches in the NFL. Like, he could be anything.

And I think that, like, you know, it's funny. I was talking to J.P. Finley on the way out, and, like, he said, you know, that he was asked, I guess today, like, what grade would you give Sam how? and he was like, I said C plus, but is there a way where it's a good C plus? Like, he's looked good. He hasn't been amazing, but like, and I said, you know, yeah, like, he's thrown 19 passes in the NFL. He's had definitely just had some moments and some throws where you're like, dang, that, you know,

it's like that throw, you know, against cover two in Dallas, the whole shot. I mean, he's had those moments, but he's also had plays where you sit there scratching your head, like, you know, did he get through his first three before he took off? did he pre-determined this route that he threw that ended up the interception. I mean, there's just, the guy is, to me, he's a high variance player. And not in the same way that Carson Wentz was, right? Because you knew he was going to make boneheaded mistakes, but he could make those

those. And Sam, I think, is going to make some mistakes, too, hopefully not to that degree. But it's, to me, it's just, we really don't know what Sam Howell will be. I totally agree with that. I completely agree with that. To me, this whole discussion since, you know, he got the QB1 offseason label in January has been, we don't know. And quite honestly, they don't probably know either.

It's a complete mystery. And I guess that's why I just suggested that. And I'm not saying that, you know, that you didn't talk about the floor being, you know, lower than Jacoby Brissette. I'm just saying that I think that there's this feeling and maybe. it's because of the way they've been pitching him that, you know, he's going to be right there with Jacoby Brissette, you know, and if he's not right there, it'll be, you know, it'll be close enough to where they're going to go with the guy that's young on a rookie deal in hopes that'll develop into a bona fide quarterback. And I'm just saying, like you just said,

I have no idea what will happen, but I am not dismissing at all the idea that they get through the end of the summer and Eric B. Enemy and Ron Rivera look at each other and say, we can't play him. There's a massive difference between Berset and Howl. And even if we think, like after 17 starts and learning it and developing, there's a chance down the road, it's not a great bet to make right now. I'm just saying that that to me is still in play. Absolutely. I think there's two components here. Like the first one is that I thought that Prissette would have a mental leg up.

I thought that we would see him have a much more veteran, crisp, on time, you know, just because of his previous experience, he would look much better in the pocket than Sam Hal does. But actually, that has not been the case as far as I've seen it. Like, Prisette has also had some, you know,

triple pump moments, some seeming to questioning his reads. And I don't know if that's, hey, there's a new offense in your, and it's mini-camp, you're just getting it, you know, getting it down. It's going to go away. But, like, it certainly does seem like, he has had some of those moments as well. And I think, you know, it's funny with Sam Howell, like, the person who is surprised about the fan base is confidence in him includes him.

We asked him, like, what does it like to get so much love and expectations and phrase, you know, from the fan base? They were going nuts for him at O'Shea's. And he was like, yeah, honestly, like, I don't even feel like I deserve it yet. I don't feel like I earned it yet. He said something like that. And so that stuck out to me as, like, he is much more realistic about himself than a a lot of these, you know, a lot of fans who are getting on the, you know, the San

Hal Bandwagon on. I think actually the humility is incredibly refreshing to watch with him. And every single person I've had on the show that knows him, whether it's Phil Longo, his offensive coordinator at Wisconsin, or Brian Simmons, who did the games at Carolina and got to know him a little bit, or the guy that trains him down in Charlotte. They have all said the same thing. And I'm not saying that, you know, sometimes you don't get that from, you know, a few people, but it's been consensus that this guy really is a quality kid, quiet maybe, and maybe not as assertive as they'd like him to be, but that he is easily, that he's very easy to work with. And there's never going to be the threat of sort of big head,

getting ahead of actual, you know, production and accomplishment. So there was one other thing that I, you know, other than, again, I'll stick with to me, it's a total mystery. And we'll just watch it and we'll see what happens. But there is an advantage, right, built in to a certain extent with the kind of offense that Eric B. Enemy is installing more West Coast, more get it out quickly. Let your playmakers make plays. We'll see obviously at some point a lot of RPO because they ran a lot of it in Kansas

City. They ran a ton of it at North Carolina with Phil Longo and Mac Brown. And to me, like I watched Jacoby Brissette enough. That's more suited to sort of Sam Howell's strengths. Do you agree or disagree? Oh, absolutely agree. I mean, Jacoby Brissette is not known as a runner. He can. You know, he had, I think it was like five yards of carry last year. He's not immobile. He's not immobile. Right, right. He's not immobile. But to me, actually, if you go back and watch his brown tape, the thing that impressed me the most is, like, his feel for when he should and could take off. Yeah.

Like, I just think that he had a great sense of the moment and of the coverage. And, like, that I didn't go back further than that, but that was the thing that impressed me if you go back and look at the stats, actually, of his rushes, like, 58% of them either went for a first down or a touchdown was the best among qualified quarterbacks. last year. And that really, I feel like that encapsulates the point of, you know, Sam will almost run too early. That is the thing he'll lean on it. That's certainly, you know, his last year in Carolina, he did that. You can argue, oh, his skill players all went to the NFL, blah, blah, blah. But, like, that was the thing Sam did as a first option. Jacoby has a great feel of when to do it,

even though he might not be as good of a runner. So that's something that I'm going to be looking for in preseason games, in training camp reps about as these guys learn the offense more, how do they use their legs? Because that will be a component of this offense. but if Sam Howell leans on it, will he do it in an efficient, smart manner? Yeah, completely. And I actually am interested to see how much dual threat, you know, Zone Reed, et cetera, ends up being put into this offense because it's been interesting to me to hear some of the people that really know his game

that say that shouldn't be what he does at the pro level. RPO, yes, but a lot of, and even the combination, of kind of zone read, you know, meshing into an RPO, which we saw a lot from Philadelphia, we saw, and we have from Kansas City as well. That's one thing. But true dual threat, you know, where he's posed as a run threat on almost every play that he's, you know, in the shotgun, is not necessarily what they think he does best, although I thought his mobility in the Dallas game was outstanding. Ron Rivera mentioned the other day that, and I'm paraphrasing here, because I don't have the quote in front of me,

that it's going to kind of come down to, you know, the games. And when he said the games, I didn't think he was referring to the regular season games. I actually thought he was referring to the preseason games when he was talking about Howell and Brissette. So do you think that that's going to be a big emphasis? let's just say that Sam Howell's got a lead. Can he give it back during those preseason games? Will they be important? Is that what Ron was talking about?

I think so. I had the same read on it that you did. I think the thing that sticks with me when I'm referring, of why I'm explaining that, or why I think that that is the case in terms of what I'm saying, is like I go back to last year when Sam in the preseason finale at Baltimore, he had some really, you know, they thought he would be further along with his footwork, but he had some real things we had to clean up in terms of he wasn't thinking the hitches and the routes,

you know, which was really important part of Scott Turner's offense, an important part of Eric B. Enemy's offense. And it's a thing that they want to see progress from him on. And I think that when Ron initially decided, hey, I'm going to go with Taylor in Week 18 against Dallas, not Sam Howell. I think that that had to be a little bit on his mind. Obviously, you know, the practice reps were important too, but Sam, and he did get some reps on Carson was hurt in that middle of the season stretch where Taylor was starting at

he was QB2. But just knowing like, hey, in the last game I saw this guy, he was not doing the things we needed him to do. I think that sticks with coaches because coaches obviously want as little variance as possible. They want to know exactly what you're going to get from a player when you put it out there. And so I think the games will matter.

If Hal has a super worst game, is that going to be cause for any quarterback? No. But if in three games or in the first two games anyway, that they're going to be. plays, he doesn't look great, Jacoby looks better. Then I think, yes, you do start saying, maybe I need to make a switch. All right. Even though we both admit that we don't know anything in terms of how this will play out. Yesterday on the show and on the radio show, I took calls on it, especially after Ron's

answer to your question, percent chance that Jacoby Brissette is the opening day starter against Arizona. Five, ten. Maybe that's a little low, actually. that my gut reaction was 5 to 10, but maybe I'm not, I mean, it's tough, right? Because what percentage is the uncertainty worth with Sam How? Like, I don't really know how to take that in. And I would love for, you know, some data scientist or whatever to say, like, oh, if you really don't know,

if it's what I use your brother? If your uncertainty level is at 100%, what would that equate to with, you know, a 10-yard lead and a 100-yard dash? Yeah, I know. Look, my immediate answer was one out of five, and I just said, I think there's a 20% chance. And I just think my reasoning is I think this is what they want to do. And so I think it's going to really take a caving of sorts by how. Or it being so obvious to everybody, because every coach has always told us, you can't fool the locker room, and they want to win,

where it's just so obvious that Brissette is, you know, better, much more ready, and maybe even on the verge of having a Gino-Smith kind of, you know, career year. So I put those chances at 1 and 5, and I said 20%. Are you still less than that? Are you working your way up to my 20? I think that I could talk myself into 20. The more interesting question to me is who is the starting quarterback in week 3 or 4? because that's when I think you start,

or maybe it's a little bit later, but like I can't be definitive on anything, apparently. But I'm just saying, like, I think that like you said, you can't fool the locker room, and if they say, hey, we know that Sam doesn't look as good right now, but we think that a couple of games under his belt, he'll get it all out of the system,

he'll be great. Like, that plays in the locker, but if you're a week four and they're one and three or they're underperforming or whatever, then you can't do that anymore. So to me, I would say right now, between 10 and 20 percent seems like the week one odds, but I would say, you know, it might even be off the board in Vegas if we're talking any much further out than that.

See, I think if we get to opening day and he's the starter, then there is belief that it might work out, and they're going to give them more than three to four weeks. All right. Let's get to something else, not involving quarterbacks. in the first two days of mini-camp, and even the days that you were at OTAs, give me the things that have stood out to you when you start thinking about writing. What's interesting to you? Well, it's an extension of the quarterback, but I think the volume of the offense,

the multiplicity of the form of the motions, the things have stood out, just how much Eric B. enemy moves guys around pre-snap alignment has stood out to me, the offensive skill weapons. the, I think the defense, you know, certainly in mini-camp with Chase and Montez there today, their, you know, their vocalness and just how much of a presence they are, even though you're not going 100%. That stuck out. The defensive backs, like, how much they're able to rotate those guys around.

That's been a big deal. And I think that, like, they have so many options. I think it was just underscored to me today. Like, I think they feel like they have three nickels with Rashad Wild Goose, Kwan Martin and Benjamin St. Chuth, obviously some of them can be in the Buffalo. Some of them can be in regular nickel. But I think they feel like they really have the depth there. But I think maybe the biggest thing, but the biggest thing for me is probably the

offensive line. Because in OTAs, because of the collisions they had, the collisions they had last year, they lost in practices, they've really turned this into more of, you know, 75% speed, walk through no full pads. There's not, you know, hitting like they're walking. last year. And so, you know, they haven't done hardly any run plays either. It's been almost exclusively passing in shorts and shells. And so to me, it's like,

Ron Rivera today, how good of a sense do you actually have of your offensive line? You feel good about the additions you made. You feel good about the position flex and the youth and all that, but like, do you have a handle on where your offensive line is at? And he, like, kind of grimaced almost and said, yeah, you know, it's been a little bit harder, but we love the guys that we have, blah, blah, blah. And so, like, to me, that is, I think you had three problems on offense last year, right? But the play calling, the quarterback, the offensive line, the quarterback we have established

pretty extensively that we don't know what's going on there. The play calling, we think that, you know, Eric Vineman will be a step forward. But the offensive line, I think, is a huge question mark as well. Charles Leno reported the camp for military camp. He was not at OTAs. And he said, you know, obviously all the right things. I think that, you know, we have a really good group. I think that we should be much better than last year.

And just it looks when you watch their past sets, when you look at the body types, like Sadiq Charles at left guard and Sam Cazia at right guard, are just much more athletic. They're much more mobile. And I think they're going to be better for outside zone runs and some of these other things that Andrew Norwell and Trey Turner were not. But I still think it's a pretty big question of is this group dramatically better than last year? And I would argue that last year they had one of, if not the worst, offensive line in the league. Yeah.

Yeah, no doubt. You know, Doc said the same thing to me yesterday in the pod. He said what's obvious is that they're more athletic. We don't know how that will play out. You know, I think the last time we talked, you used the description. You know, did they solve this with quantity or quality? And we won't know until they start to hit the people in front of them and they're running backs running behind them.

And there's legitimate pressure on the quarterback and they've got to protect. But give me a. And we'll finish up with this. Give me a player right now that you've got a gut feel about. Maybe it's none, you know, but is there a player that you have a gut feel based on you watching or based on what you're hearing from other coaches that is going to be kind of a significant contributor in a way that maybe most of us aren't thinking right now? I mean, I feel like people are aware of how much Juan Martin will play, you know,

between, you know, the nickel and safety and some of the things he can do. And maybe, like, I kind of think he's flown under the radar, even though he'll be the starting Mike linebacker. But I think Cody Barton is going to be actually a pretty good addition. And famous last word is talking about linebackers in his defense. But, like, he is bigger than Cole Holcomb. I have been impressed by, you know, his movement at his size. Damon Davis was on the field today, even though, you know,

he still is working back from the knee. But he was in some defense install. all walkthroughs. And just even, even though, you know, you don't get a great feel off that, I just, I've been impressed the more that I've watched him, kind of his fluidity and his command of this defense, which he said is more complex than the one he came from in Seattle. But I guess I was pretty skeptical when they first signed him that this guy who was pretty much a special team guy for three years and then became a starting Mike linebacker one was going to translate. But I do think he is going to be a bigger part of this than, than I expect. I think if they

do that thinko package with five down defensive. lineman, you know, Jamon will probably be the linebacker on the field, but I think Cody Barton could still handle that. And I don't know if I really embrace the premise of your question by, no, I think you did. A guy we knew that was going to go. No, you did. Yeah, because I've talked about this a few times, just, you know, the different names that I'm hearing from various people out there. Like last year, from the jump, it was like, wow, Johan Dotson's the real deal. And it was just so obvious to everybody. By the way, I think they've said the same thing about Emmanuel Forbes. But I remember.

last year specifically hearing about a guy that didn't make a big contribution, but I'm hearing things about him again this year. And it's at the same position. And that is Kaleek Hudson, that they actually think that he has a chance to really make a contribution. And by the way, overall, just how much more confident they are in the linebacking situation than maybe a lot of fans are. Not only Cody Barton, but what Jamon Davis has the chance to be in, year three, and by the way, year two of the position that he should have been playing when he came out? Absolutely.

And I think that one of the things about Kaleek Hudson that's interesting to me is he played, I think he played really well in that Dallas game, right? Right. It's waiting. How much do you judge a guy off his first, you know, two years in 16-17s versus, you know, that one last game when he flashed when it seemed like Dallas, you know, really wasn't in it as much as I do it expected, because he did play well, and I don't mean to take that away from him. But how do you, you know, compensate for that?

Because then Jack Del Rio comes out, you know, what was it, last week, and he, you know, really praises Collie Kudson, and he says, you know, there's going to be a challenge for Jamin. And how much of that is, we love what Kaleek is doing. We think that he's, you know, going to, you know, take a real step over this year, and how much of it is him just doing what he did last year and kind of getting on Jamin and using this as a tactic. I don't have those answers, but I do think that Kaleek has looked pretty good this year,

especially in coverage. It's been a couple times where Sam or Jacobi has had a particularly nice place, ball down the sideline or whatever, but he has looked sticky in coverage. So I do think that, you know, if you're talking about those three of the top three linebackers, I don't think you feel awesome. I mean, none of them are Fred Warner or whatever, but they are, I think, a solid unit, which is probably notable considering how much you and I talked or how much other people talking going into the office with a hall linebacker was something they needed to address significantly.

All right, let's finish up with kind of the obligatory chip. St. Young question and answer. And I'll just ask you this. I mean, off of, you know, a 24-hour period where everybody was kind of saying the right things. And, I mean, Albert Breer described his performance in mini-camp practice yesterday as phenomenal. But how do you answer the question? What is your gut feel on how he will do in the upcoming produce or else season for him? I think that it's up to him. I mean, he decided not to come. I think that's totally his prerogative. If he believes that, you know, being in Colorado is going to be better for him,

then, you know, you have to say, okay, like that's your choice. It really, to me, goes back to, you know, I sat down with Chase before the 2021 season when he, you know, didn't come the first time. And I, you know, we talked and he said, look, I had to come in, you know, to this team, and I had to be no BS, right? No BS. I had to show up and play before I could really talk and lead. At the end of 2020, he showed up and he led, and he really embraced, I think,

the role that the team gave to him because he played well. But, I mean, if he going to have this breakout year, I don't know. He is doing the same processes, and if he's healthy, what will lead to a different result? I don't know. But I think that that's what he is betting on, and you've got to respect that. Thank you, Sam 48 from the Washington Post. That's Sam 4TR on Twitter.

I always enjoy it with you. Thanks. Of course. Thanks for having me, Kevin. All right. Up next, Steve Sands from the Golf Channel from NBC, our good friend, Steve, to explain everything that happened yesterday between the PGA tour and the Live Tour. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. All right. Is a good friend, Steve Sands, from the Golf Channel and NBC.

He will be, by the way, this weekend. on the call in the booth for the RBC Canadian Open up in Toronto. He's on his way up there right now. By the way, what a week to kind of have those responsibilities at a PGA tour event. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see how we handle the telecast from our side, but also more importantly, it's about the players, it's about the competition. Rory McElroy is the defending champion. where McElroy has been the face and the voice of this PGA Tour versus Live thing

to the last 18 months or so. It's going to be fascinating to see what he has to say. I'm looking forward to catching up with him later this afternoon. Yeah. All right. So look, you know, and you're a listener to the show, and you have a sense for those of us that, you know, obsess on other sports, but not so much this sport.

You know, I love it, but not everybody does. And I don't think everybody's followed this story. So in total sort of elementary terms, explain to everybody what happened yesterday. Basically what happened yesterday is the PIF, which is a private investment fund of Saudi Arabia, which is worth, I believe, in excess of a trillion dollars. They basically run all the money for Saudi Arabia as far as investing money throughout the world in sports and in business. They bought the PGA Tour, Kevin. They have their own entity called LiveGolf that started a year ago.

Actually, this week was the first tournament a year ago. They took a bunch of PGA Tour players, paid them tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. And the game was fractured at the highest level for the last year, year and a half. Yesterday, the PGA Tour announced, unbeknownst to almost everybody, including the players, that it was going to merge with LiveGolf with the PIF, the Private Investment Fund of Saudi Arabia, and the D.P. World Tour, which is the European Tour, now has a sponsor called D.P. World, but it's the European Tour, for those familiar, in golf circles in the United States, and they're going to form what seems like a world tour, whatever it's going to be called.

They haven't decided yet, but the man who runs the PIF, Kevin, is a man named Yasser, and he is going to be the chairman of this new entity. So basically, if you think about it in baseball, basketball, hockey, and football, the NFL, the NBA, the NHL, and Major League Baseball, the PGA Tour being the fifth largest sport in America, the PGA Tour was bought by the PIF yesterday. All right, so that is different than the original headlines, which was kind of a merger between these things.

what did the PIF pay for the PGA tour? Well, that hasn't been determined yet because they were afraid that the news was going to be leaked out and they wanted to get it out on their own. So it's one of the fascinating things about what we do for a living, Kevin, and we're not the news business. I'd be play-by-play for a living. You know, you do, you know, radio, sports radio and podcast. But in the news world of journalism, this,

was going to get leaked out at some point. And the PGA tour, the DGPWR, the PIF, LiveGolf, they wanted to make sure that they were the ones controlling the narrative. So they put it out there yesterday, but the details aren't fully baked. So we don't know exactly what the dollar amount is as far as what the PIF is going to be pumping into this new entity. You know, for now it's called the PGA Tour. Hopefully for golf fans of the United States and those of us who are old school, you know,

know that that's the biggest brand in the game. Hopefully it remains that name, and just for familiarity reasons. And we just don't know what all the details are. Will it be a full world tour? How many billions of dollars? And it is in the billions would it be. How much money are they pumping into this?

Nobody really knows just yet. All right. I want to get to, you know, the players' reactions, the fact that this was a major bombshell for them yesterday, the PGA tour players, and go back and look at it. at those players that turn down the big money versus those that did. But I still want to get to what this means from a golf fan perspective because, all right, we know the PGA tour players are

pissed. But what, do you have any sense of what this purchase and this kind of melding of these tours is going to mean for fans? Like, what are we going to watch? Are we going to watch something? You said it. You think it's going to be called the PGA tour. Will it have a normal schedule? Will it be blended with the Live Tour schedule? Will there be a team aspect to it, as we've seen on the Liv Side? What are we going to watch as fans when this thing comes to, you know, a conclusion in terms of the purchase?

I don't know if it's going to be called the PGA Tour, Kevin. I just hope it's going to remain the PGA Tour. If you think about it, we're both from D.C. U.S. Airways used to run, you know, basically all the flights out of National Airport. U.S. Airways bought American Airlines. When American Airlines had the larger brand name, they kept American Airlines as the name, and U.S. Airways went away, even though U.S. Airways bought American Airlines.

Well, look at it now. LivGolf is it nearly the brand name? D.P. World Tour is it merely the brand name? The PGA Tour is a monster brand in the world, in the United States, in sports. And I don't know what the name is going to be moving forward, but I'd like to think that they would keep it that way. But, you know, when you don't call all the shots, that's not exactly how things usually take place.

What I think's going to happen for fans, Kevin, is it's going to be good. The best players in the world are going to once again play against each other week in, week out. There will not be conflicting telecast, conflicting fields, one versus the other. It's all going to be coming together. So if you're a fan of golf, if you're a fan of sport, you want to see the best players, the best teams face each other every single day, every single week.

And I think that's what's going to happen. So the majors will not only be the best place to watch the best players on the planet. You'll also be able to see them week in, week out, in this new merger. And I think fans will benefit. Now, will sponsors jump on board? Well, some people not like where the money comes from, certainly. But for golf fans and golfers themselves playing at the highest level, Kevin, they're going to be competing for more money,

and they're going to be competing against the best players in the world more regularly. And to me, as a golf fan, I think that benefits the fan. Yeah, I'll just inject this one thought slash opinion, and that is, look, until we see what the economics of this deal are, and my sense is it's probably going to be other than the fact of where the money is coming from and how it sort of evolved over the last year, it'll probably be a good thing for the PGA tour economically. But as far as the live tour goes, Steve,

I never watched it once. I never looked for it once. the players that had gone to that tour, for me, watching PGA tour events weren't missed because those players were playing in the majors, which did mean something to me. The Live Tour was irrelevant for me, and I think a lot of people felt the same way. Yes, I totally agree with you. The difference is if you are in Pontivir Beach, where the headquarters of the PGA Tour is, and you have lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit going forever for years and years.

This was never going to go away. Sponsors were not rising to the level of which the PGA tour thought they would when this all came about a year ago and a year and a half ago because they needed to raise all the purses. That means the sponsors need to pump in more money and they weren't getting the return that they thought because the fields aren't as deep. Some of the stars aren't playing, and you have a haves and have not.

And that's not what you need in professional sports. It's kind of like small market teams in professional sports in the team aspect, as opposed to the larger market. If you have the small markets literally never having a chance to win, then what do you have in that league? And in this case, on the PGA tour level, sponsors needed to pump in tens of millions more and they weren't willing to do it because the PGA tour wasn't delivering on the best fields and not a fractured sport and the chatter and by the way if nobody was watching

live golf Kevin but it was going head to head against the PGA tour and if you're getting a one or one and a half rating and they get a point two or point three well you've got to figure those point two or point three people would be watching the PGA tour at the same time that matters to sponsors. That matters to television companies. I think that ESPN Plus, golf channel NBC, CBS, for sure had to be putting pressure on the

PGA tour and saying, we just signed a new deal a couple of years ago, and you're not delivering on the depth of fields and the product isn't the same, and we'd like some money back, and sponsors weren't stepping up. So, yeah, I mean, there's just so many things

to it, Kevin, but follow the money. You know, this is a money thing, and I think the PGA tour kind of looked into the future and saw all the losses, the discovery phase, of all the things, you know, do you really want someone looking up

Cinderella skirt? They have a tax exempt status. Remember when the NFL changed out of its tax exempt status? Was that 5, 7, 10 years ago? It was a story at the time, but then it kind of went away. The reason they did that is because they didn't want anybody, again, looking up Cinderella

skirt. Well, the PGA tour didn't want that either. And I think that the best way to get themselves out of this and get the game back to where it belongs and not be fractured was to merge with what was an enemy and now is no longer a foe. It's a friend. Yeah, I mean, you just used, you know, the word merge, but like you said at the beginning and doing a lot of reading last night, it was more allowing itself to be purchased by this PIF. It's a merger, it's a merger, Kevin,

in saying only. I mean, let's call this what it is. Yeah. This is a hostile takeover. When you have a hostile takeover in the business sense, and this is what this is,

but it just happens to be in our world in sports, a hostile takeover. This is the definition of a hostile takeover. You apply financial pressure to the entity you would like to control, and then when that entity has issues financially, you are there to inevitably help them out. And that's what took place.

So, yes, it's a merger. But remember this. We talked about Yasser. He's the man who runs the PIF in Saudi Arabia. And that's the Saudi, you know, the money. And the PIF is the private investment fund. They're the ones who pumped in all the money for Livgolf. And they're doing this, you know, because they're trying to, you know, change the way the world looks at Saudi Arabia.

and have it be more of a diverse economy and not just oil-based and tourism and all kinds of things. Sports have something to do with that. That's why they're involved with soccer with so much money. That's why they're involved with Formula One. And golf was the next thing that they decided to try to get involved in. He's going to be the most powerful person in all of golf. He's the chairman of the new entity. Jay Monaghan, the commissioner of the PGA tour, was the most powerful man in all of

but now he's going to be the CEO, not the chairman of the new entity. And did they merge? Yes. But did they get bought? That's not a negative connotation. That's just reality. Yeah, and I think for those, you know, because you just mentioned soccer, you mentioned Formula One, and knowing, you know, that most of the people that are listening

to this are big-time football fans, remember with the NFL in particular, it's not the, it's not the sponsors that generate the significant or majority amount of revenue. It is the media companies. It is media dollars. It's television dollars that really do run the NFL. So unless PIF starts buying up CBS, Fox, ES, you know, Disney, NBC, etc., Amazon Prime, I don't see that kind of Saudi influence happening in the NFL until, by the way, let me just mention, the NFL loosens up its restrictions in terms of who can buy franchises and who can't. As an example, Josh Harris paying $6 billion for this team, you know, is the highest amount ever paid. And we saw the limited audience there was for it. And that's because they don't

accept private equity or foreign money. I would imagine that people like Josh Harrison is limited partners see a future down the road where the NFL loosens up its restrictions and all the sudden, whether it's private equity or, you know, foreign money, we then see the prices continue to skyrocket in terms of evaluations. But I want to get back to this thing. I mean, that's my view on how maybe some are feeling about, well, is the NFL next? I don't think the NFL is next for this, unless, again, they start buying up media companies. companies and etc. Do you have an opinion on that one way or the other?

I don't think the PGA Tour is the last sports entity that the PIS wants to get involved with. Whether they get involved with the leagues themselves, buying teams, or owning companies or investing in companies that are advertising, the messaging. I just don't see how this is the last. I agree with that. I just think the NFL... I agree with that. I just think that the NFL has a different business model than a lot of these other entities.

I mean, they're, you know, the significant majority of revenue comes from media, not sponsorships, which is different than the PGA tour in other sports. Anyway, I digress. I agree, but Kevin, remember, remember, they own Newcastle. the Premier League. The Premier League is the NFL of soccer.

And it is massive, massive around the world, especially in Europe, in the UK especially. But the revenue, I don't think it's similar to the PGA, to the NFL, but it's pretty darn close. The Premier League is monstrous. They already own a team in the Premier League. Now, the rules are different there, as you stated, but you can't tell me that behind the scenes when someone says, oh, you paid $6.05 billion for the commanders? Well, the next time a team comes up, once you come my way, and I'll be happy to give you a little bit larger than that. I'd be careful, not you personally, but I'd be careful for people to think that the golf is where it ends

as far as the PIF and Saudi Arabia's money, infiltrating itself into American sport. Yeah, infiltrating, I don't disagree with at all. and certainly with all of the other sports. Purchasing the NFL and ending up having Yasser, whatever his last name is, running the NFL. I see that that... That's not going to happen. Yeah, I don't see that that happening with the NFL. I totally agree. So the players obviously were floored by this, and they're angry about this, and they're angry with Jay Monaghan about this. Is it possible that... when all of the details come out about this, that they're less mad

because this is going to be, as you've described, a trillion-dollar entity pumping hundreds of millions potentially into the PGA Tour. Yeah, look, money solves a lot of issues, and money basically rules the world when it comes to these types of things. I think at the end of the day when all this shakes out, PGA Tour players are going to be playing against the best players in the world, going to be playing for more money. So if that's what they do

for a living, then that's probably a good thing. You can have an issue, like I said earlier, with where the way, if that's your prerogative, if you want to have an issue with where the money comes from. But there's no debate that they're going to be playing for more money, and this is going to make

the PGA tour, whatever the new entity is called, more solvent. There's no question about that financially. The players are furious, Kevin. And they're furious because unlike the team sports in America, again, the NFL, major league baseball, the NHL, and the NBA, the commissioner of those leagues works for the owners. And the owners negotiate collective bargaining agreements with the players and the players union. There is no union on the PGA tour. The commissioner of the PGA tour, the way it is structured,

the way the bylaws of the PGA tour are, it's a player organization. He works for the players. they don't negotiate against themselves. So for Jay Monahan in the upper echelon of the PGA Tour to do this without any type of player interaction is incredibly rare. You can clearly see why they did it that way, but the players are not happy about it. And I think the players are going to give Jay a very difficult time they did yesterday in a player's only meeting. And I think it's going to be a very rough ride for Jay Monaghan. I do see an avenue for him either exiting or staying if both things can be true at once. Exiting because the pressure will be too much and the players will just say you're out of here.

We don't want you to be our commissioner anymore. But staying because what he did yesterday and both things can be true once. He can be looked upon as untrustworthy to the players because he wasn't transparent to them, but also looking after their best interest because he just infused billions of dollars into the sport and got rid of live golf in one full swoop. So it just depends on your outlook. Yeah, and if he were to get run by the players, I think the PIF probably has some sort of golden parachute for him, don't you think?

Yes. For sure, I would not find Jay Monaghan skipping any meals and children going hungry anytime. All right, so the... By the way, Jim Mata-Anne is a really... By the way, Kevin, he's a really good guy and was put in a really, really tough spot. Did he handle it perfectly all this time?

No, of course not, but nobody does. He did his best, and he's still doing his best. And he's a very, very good man. I just think he's in a very, very tough spot with his players. Yeah, the problem is, of course, his position a year ago when all of this started and then the final result.

a year later. And the PGA players, Steve, and you know, you know so much many of them. They, those that stayed and passed on the eight and nine figure sums of money that were being offered along the way, uh, the money that, you know, obviously Bryson and Phil and Patrick Reed and and Dustin and Brooks Kepka all took, they didn't take. And so, they stayed loyal to the PGA tour and a year later, the live golfers that took those unbelievable sums of money are now going to be back more likely than not playing PGA tour events. Is that the source of the anger as much as anything else? And how will they, if at all, be made whole other than they'll be playing for more money

when this new entity, you know, takes over? Yes, passing on the tens, if not hundreds of millions is a massive issue with the players, but also just as big an issue to most of them, because most of them did not have the ability to receive that kind of money. This was done without them knowing about it, and that's not how the PGA Tour works. That's why they have a player policy board, like the NFL and the other sports, in America, the team sports. This sport, again, the players have a say

and what the business at hand is on the PGA tour. And in this particular case, they did not have a say, but it's just not the way the PGA tour is struck. So it's a very difficult position for the players to be in. To welcome back at the best of the world. Somebody took the money and said a lot of nasty things back and forth. It cares about the language back and forth. I mean, you know, getting nasty, tweeting,

and, you know, punking people who cares about that stuff, if you didn't take the money and you stayed and remain loyal because you were told to and because that was the right thing to do and the PGA tour asked you to be a spokesperson on its behalf while you're still competing as a player, and then all of a sudden a year later they turn around, and all the things that you've been saying are just false because you're now taking the money from that entity,

which you said you never would and it was wrong and blah, blah, blah. I just think the guys feel like they look and sound like fools. And the money, clearly, but also the foolish nature of this doesn't fit well with the guys either. You implied this at the start of your answer, but I actually hadn't thought of it this way. But for most of the PGA tour players who were never going to be offered the kind of money that Kepka and Des Chambo and Phil and others got, this actually ultimately will benefit them because they will be playing for much bigger money on the tour. And they were never offered the opportunity for generational wealth guaranteed by the PIF to begin with. The majority of players were not offered deals by the Saudis to join the live tour.

All right. So, oh, Greg Norman. Where does he end up after all of this? For those that don't know, Greg Norman was tapped by the PIF, by the Saudis to run the live tour. And by the way, to recruit all of the players. Easy to recruit when you're offering, you know, Phil Mickelson, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars, same for Deschambeau and etc. But where does he end up after all of this? Well, Greg Norman promised the guys more money.

check. He promised the guys that they would merge with the PGA tour eventually, check. He promised the guys that they would get world golf ranking points, check. And he promised the guys that they would play in the major championships, check. So Greg Norman, to the chagrin, I mean, Greg Norman is not a popular man in golf. Kevin just said minimally. And for him to be correct on all of this and deliver, it's all going to come to. fruition. Greg Norman's going to, you know, come out smell like a rose in this thing. Phil Mickelson the same thing. It's amazing that those two guys are going to be looked upon

as not only correct, but in some cases they're going to be heroic to some of these other golfers who, like you said, are going to be playing for more money and all going to be coming together. I mean, it's an amazing turn of events. It's amazing what's happened. in such a short time. But money talks, man. And those guys were right. Greg and Phil were correct in their gamble and their assessment. And the other players who decided to stay and remain loyal are, I don't know if they're going to be out the money,

if they're never going to get paid the money. But they certainly didn't receive those tens and hundreds of millions of dollars at the other guys who went to live and now will be welcomed back. Maybe not with open arms, but they are going to come together again. So they are going to have their cake and eat it too. Yeah, and I think, you know, and I think you would agree with me. We're talking specifically about the financial impact to all of these players. Because, you know, it still matters to the families of 9-11 victims.

It still matters to those that view Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest human rights violators on the planet. And, you know, that stuff won't go away. But ultimately, as we know, especially as sports fans, money trumps all, typically. So let's finish this up by just like we talked about it briefly, and I know the answers aren't fully there. But what is your guess? Or are we going to see these players playing against each other in PGA tour events or in some kind of new, you know, calendar? you know, on a weekly basis, are there going to be, you know, are they going to be able to play in shorts? Is there going to be music? Is there going to be a team aspect? Is there going to be 54 holes? No cut?

Like, what do you see golf being when this, you know, this merger slash purchase, you know, is over and they're moving forward with this new, you know, entity? The shorts and the music I'm not sure about, but it's got to be 72 holes. There's got to be a cut, I would think. But again, one of the things that's so strange about yesterday, they were afraid it was going to get leaked, so they had to put out a statement at some point. They did that yesterday. And they did that, even though it's a monster initiative, they did that without the details being fully baked. So we don't really know. I would guess, Kevin, that you are going to see a cut in 72 holes and have it be more traditional professional golf.

but I don't know that for a fact. I just cannot imagine how the PGA Tour and its players would ever stand for 54 holes, music blaring, shorts, shotgun start. I just can't see that being the model going forward. Now, will there be a team aspect? It always seems strange to me. I never watched Live like you did. I didn't watch it. I didn't like it.

didn't understand it. And it didn't hook me. So I don't know how that's going to take place. But again, the details are yet to be determined because they're not fully baked. And they made that announcement yesterday again because they were afraid it was going to get a leak. All right. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that we didn't cover on this? Because I think there's so many different things.

No, no, we covered it all. I'm glad, too, because I got to go cop on the flight. All right. Go hop on the flight. We'll talk football next time. Thanks for doing this. I love you, guys. All right.

Thanks to Steve. Thanks to Sam. Fortier back tomorrow.