The Kevin Sheehan Show - Scary "Ghost Town Field" Numbers

Episode Date: July 20, 2022

Kevin opened with Scott Boras' penny-pinching decision to force his top client, Juan Soto, to fly commercially to the All-Star game in Los Angeles. Kevin also talked Commanders' 2022 MVP in the opening segment. Then it was Andy Pollin jumping on to discuss where Kevin Durant to DC would rank on the list of all time Washington DC sports acquisitions. That was followed by Kevin's conversation with Sportico's Kurt Badenhousen on the incredible growth of NFL revenue all the while, Washington has dipped amazingly to the near bottom of several key revenue numbers.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Well, hello, everybody, on this day following the Major League Baseball All-Star game, the official slowest day on the sports calendar. Yeah, every year, this is the one day most years.

There may be a quirky year here and there where there's no games involving the four professional sports leagues. But this is the day guaranteed where you have. No NBA games, no NHL games, no NFL games, and no Major League Baseball games, marking this as the slowest day of the year on the sports calendar. No worries, two weeks from tomorrow night, first football game of the year, the Hall of Fame game in Canton, the Vegas Raiders, and Washington's Week 1 opponent, Jacksonville Jaguars, will play in the Hall of Fame game. The Raiders reported to camp today by this time next week.

all camps will be open, even though some teams it'll just be for rookies. But we are one week away from camps and we are two weeks from tomorrow night away from a football game on television. But yeah, this is always the slowest sports week of the year. And tonight is the day every year where there are no games. And that means no games to wager on. However, if you go to my bookie, they've got plenty of NFL props. More on that coming up in the show, including one of their interesting prop bets of this lead up to the NFL season, which is Coach of the Year odds in the NFL. You'll hear more about that coming up on the show shortly. Two guests on the show today. Andy Poland is going to be on with me. The reason I asked Andy to come on is no better person

to have a conversation about whether or not the acquisition of Kevin Durant, if it were to happen, long shot, understood. But if it were to happen would be the single greatest sports acquisition for any of the major teams in the market in the history of this city. Andy and I are going to have that conversation. And then Kurt Bodenhausen. Kurt is the sports business writer for Sportico. he's written very recently about the incredible revenues that the NFL has generated,

including the overall television number and how that gets divided equally among the 32 teams and what that number is. And we'll get into a lot of detail about the Washington situation. Just how far has Washington fallen compared to the other 32 teams? And when it comes to overall revenue, Kurt's a good guy, he's smart, it's an interesting conversation, I promise you that you will enjoy it. Or most of you, I think, will enjoy it. A short open here before we get to Andy. I'm going to start with this, because I did not see this story the last two days regarding Juan Soto and his agent Scott Boris. and the fact that Juan Soto had to fly commercial to Los Angeles for the home run derby and the All-Star game. He went 0 for three last night as the American League won the game three to two.

Yeah, Scott Boris, his agent told Sports Illustrated that they did not fly Juan Soto. the team did not fly Juan Soto out to Los Angeles, as is customary for Major League Baseball teams or most Major League Baseball teams to do. He said, quote, Juan Soto arrived five hours after the Atlanta Braves as a team arrived in Los Angeles. Do you want to know why? Scott Boris asked. The answer was, he said, quote, because their team chartered a part.

plane. Juan Soto had to fly on a commercial flight and wait in an airport for two hours, and he got here at 1.30 in the morning and then had to compete in the home run derby, which he won, by the way. And that's something that Major League Baseball did not take care of, and that's something that the Washington Nationals did not take care of. There was a pitcher Paul Blackburn for the Oakland A's whose team Oakland also did not have a plan to fly him from Houston where the

A's finished up before the All-Star break to Los Angeles where he was the lone representative for the A's in the All-Star game. But he jumped on a flight with the Houston Astros. The Astros offered him a seat on their flight as they were flying their All-Stars

out to Los Angeles. So he got a lift. Atlanta did not offer the same thing to Juan Soto. So look, it is penny pinching by the nationals and maybe a bit of an indication of how they feel about him turning down their offer that they didn't fly him out there, which apparently most, if not all major league baseball teams, most in this case because the A's weren't planning apparently to fly

their representative out there. But my answer to this would be shut the F up, Scott Boris. You're a billionaire too. You fly him out there. He's your client. You went public with the team not flying him out there and penny pinching on not flying him out to Los Angeles. I'm not sure you gave it much thought that most people understand that you are worth hundreds of millions,

if not a billion dollars or north of it. I don't know his overall net worth. I am sure that Scott Boris flies privately everywhere he goes. I am sure he's got relationships with net jets, wheels up, any of those companies, and could have easily arranged for his client, by the way, a very important client, a client that may generate his biggest commission of all time. You think he couldn't afford to fly Juan Soto out to Los Angeles? instead forcing his client to fly commercial, poor, poor Juan Soto.

He had to fly commercial and wait two hours in a layover, perhaps, before he got to L.A. at 1.30 in the morning. Of course, I say that understanding that these people in life, they don't deal with what we deal with flying commercially. Hopefully there was a first class seat, or at least a business class seat available. Imagine he was sitting middle seat and coach. By the way, Neil and Rockville sent me a note and he said, wouldn't it have been awesome if Dan Snyder heard about it and decided to fly Juan Soto out there on one of his planes

as a major FU middle finger to the learners? He's already done the milk that turns sour in their suite. That actually would have been hysterically funny. and would have earned him maybe a brownie point or two. No, more like a half of a brownie point maybe. But Jesus, Scott Boris, stop already. You were truly clueless as to how bad this was going to make you look after the fact. But anyway, one other quick thing to get to before we get to Andy Pollan and then Kurt Bodenhausen.

The athletics, Ben Standing, was one of 32 athletic beat reporters for NFL teams that had to pick their MVP bet, you know, who they'd bet on to win the MVP for their team. And Ben said that it's Terry McClorn. He said, there's some risk with this designation considering the receiver skipped most of Washington's offseason program because of lagging contract extension talks. and the uncertainty with new quarterback Carson Wentz, but McClawn's talent is undeniable. The fourth-year player also has the best supporting cast, quarterback, and fellow receivers since entering the league, which is all true.

You know, I thought about this, not necessarily as it relates to who the MVP is, although I had one thought regarding that, and I'll get to that in a moment. But do you know in the history of the MVP award that Washington, with all of its success for a long period time, has only had three all-time MVP's. Larry Brown was the NFL MVP in the leading rusher in 1972. He was an MVP winner. Mark Mosley, the only kicker to ever win an MVP award, won it in the strike-shortened season of 1982, and then Joe Thysman won it in 1983.

That's it. I mean, Washington had back-to-back MVPs with a kicker and a quarterback, and Larry Brown won it in 72. But that's it. You know, Mark Rippin wasn't an MVP in 91. John Riggins was never an MVP. John Riggins never went to a Pro Bowl, which is amazing, even though he's one of the greats of all time. But, yeah, that's their MVP history. And I was also thinking with respect to what Ben was asked to predict for the athletic.

You know, if I told you to fill in the blank with, you know, this player was the team's MVP, and whether or not it would be obvious based on who you put in there if the team had a good season or a bad season, there's one name that you could put in there that would definitively spell out that they did not have a good season. And that would be if Tressway was the team's MVP. That's the one player probably more than any other, that if we were all told right now, Tressway is going to be the team's MVP, it was a losing season.

You know, you could throw another few players in there. Like if Sam Cosme were the team's MVP, best player MVP, which, you know, I don't even think they have that designation. The Welcome Home Luncheon, Luncheon, every year, a special teams MVP, an offensive MVP and a defensive MVP. But I'm just saying that if there were each year a team MVP, it's a bad sign if your punter is your MVP. It's a bad sign if maybe one of your offensive linemen or a guard or a center. Now, Cosmi's a tackle,

but a right tackle, that wouldn't be the best of signs. Or if you're punt returner, I don't even know who that's going to be. Is it going to be this guy, Alex Erickson, was the MVP? And on the flip side of that, you would know that the team likely had a pretty good season or the best chance of having a good season if the quarterback was the MVP, or maybe somebody like Chase Young or Montez Sweat as a defensive, you know, player that would have really impacted games. Terry McClorn, maybe, Antonio Gibson, you know, Curtis Samuel. Anyway. More on that. I'm sure we will take our guesses for the team's MVP before this season begins.

But I want to get to the two interviews and conversations that I had. Andy Poland is up next. Andy and I discussed just what Kevin Durant coming to D.C. would actually mean in comparison to others who have been acquired by trade, by free agency, through the draft, or even, if you want to, to consider coaching hires. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the podcast brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.com or MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. And MyBooky will double your first deposit all the way up to $1,000.

I've mentioned many times that they have a lot of NFL prop bets for the upcoming season. I was looking at one prop bet in particular this morning, the coach of the year odds for the upcoming season. You know, typically the NFL coach of the year comes from a pool of coaches that are coaching teams that weren't that good the year before, that weren't playoff teams. Rarely does the coach of the year come from a powerhouse team or a perceived powerhouse team that does really well.

It's usually the guy that's involved in turning a team around. well, the Washington team last year was 7 and 10, not a playoff team. So Ron Rivera would have been in that pool of coaches that would have been considered as a possibility for, you know, an odds on favorite maybe for NFL coach of the year in the upcoming season. Nah, he's 25th. So for those of you that believe what I do, which is the boys who make odds on this stuff typically no more than we do, they're not. expecting much. And we've talked about, you know, Washington's over under win total, their odds to win the division, the NFC championship are not where some of the pundits believe that they are. I think there's more optimism from pundits this year than there are the odds makers. Ron Rivera's got the

25th best odds out of 32 NFL coaches to win NFL coach of the year at plus 3,100. So that's a long shot. The favorite is Brandon Staley. A lot of people expecting a lot out of the Chargers this year. The second favorite, all right? Brandon Staley is 14 to 1. That's the favorite for the NFL coach of the year. The thing about NFL coach of the year, whoever you bet on, you're going to get a really good return. Brian Daible, the head coach of the New York football Giants, number two on this list. In fact, two of the NFC East coaches, Nick Siriani and Brian Dable, with much better odds. Dable's odds are shocking to me because nobody believes the Giants are going to have a good season.

Nobody. And him having the second best odds for NFL coach of the year is a stunning number to me. Can't believe that. By the way, Washington's first opponent, the Jacksonville Jaguars, and their new head coach, Doug Peterson. Peterson's odds are the fourth best for NFL coach of the year possibilities. All right. Yesterday on the show, Chase Hughes from NBC Sports Washington,

Chase covers the Wizards and has for several years. I had Chase on to discuss the Sam Amico story about Washington being interested in Kevin Durant, which, by the way, they should be. If there's any possibility, no matter how slim, of trading for Kevin Durant, the Wizards should be massively aggressive. Same way I felt about Kauai Leonard several years ago when he was available. Same way in football, I have felt recently about Deshawn Watson, yes, prior to all of the shenanigans, and Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers and any elite quarterback. You have to have the quarterback if you're going to win a Super Bowl.

And you have to have the elite superstar in the NBA if you're going to go. to contend for a championship. So yeah, if Kevin Durant's actually available, I would be super aggressive if I were Ted and Tommy Shepard and going after him. I asked Chase if he thought there were any legs to this story. Here's what he said. Well, first of all, I do believe the wizards are interested in Kevin Duran. You know, Woj reported that more than half the league had expressed interest. We know the Wizards tried to get him in the past. I think there would be several hurdles involved. One of them being, has Kevin Durant changed his mind from six years ago when he wouldn't even give them a meeting?

We all remember that story. But certainly if Kevin Durant would come here, if his mind has changed over the last six years, the wizard should make a major push because he would instantly make them title contenders. So the first part of that answer was he believes the Wizards are interested in acquiring Kevin Drant. And he mentioned that Woj, Adrian Wojnerowski from ESPN, you know, is reported that half the teams in the NBA have reached out to Brooklyn. I certainly hope the Wizards are one of them. But let's take that and run with it, as we did a little bit yesterday with Chase. And as I did on radio this morning by asking the following question and opening up phone lines for it.

And the question was this, if, if hypothetical, sports hypothetical, in mid to late July. If the Wizards actually did acquire Kevin Durant, would it be the biggest DC sports acquisition of all time? And if not, which acquisition is bigger? I mean, I think it would be the biggest sports acquisition, certainly of this century, you know, since the year 2000. And there are others out there that we discussed,

like Harper and Strasbourg and RG3, here on the podcast to have this conversation with me is a person that I can't think of having this conversation with other than him that would make it more sort of intelligent and historically based than my good friend Andy Poland. Andy hosts 10 to 12 on ESPN 630. And of course, Andy is the dean of sports talk radio here in this town. and he joins me right now at Andy Pullen 1 on Twitter. So I know you were listening this morning when I did this segment, and I'll get your answer to Kevin Durant and whether or not he would be the biggest sports acquisition

in D.C. sports history in a moment. But there were a lot of names that came up. And I'll tell you, Andy, the name that came up, that to me is actually the number one of all time in D.C. sports history, if we're considering, by the way, trades, free agent signings, drafted players, and hires, which would include a coach. One of my callers said, Vince Lombardi. And Lombardi, actually, of course, the Redskins, you know, getting him out of retirement

to coach their team in 1969 probably is the number one hire slash acquisition of all time in D.C. sports history, right? Yeah, yeah, that's true. If you go pro, I have two college in mind. Will college count? Yes, I think it has to because in looking at all of my mentions, I think I know what you're going to say because I wrote down two of them from people who tweeted him in.

I'm upset that I forgot about him, but go ahead. Okay, one that happened and one that didn't happen. Exactly. The one that didn't happen was Moses Malone. Right. Because if Moses Malone came to Maryland, it would have been hard to avoid winning a national title, even if he only stayed one year. They had John Lucas, who became the number one pick of the draft, Mo Howard, who was a pro guard. They just had talent there to win, and unfortunately,

he went to one class and signed with the ABA, and that was the end of that. The second one that did happen was Patrick Ewing. Patrick Ewing was the number one recruited guy at a time when big men really mattered in college basketball, and he delivered. He got them to three national championship games and won a championship. So I think those would be the two, the one that didn't happen with Moses and the one that did happen with Patrick Ewing. I have a pro sort of comp on this, not quite the same, maybe not quite the impact, although they did win a championship.

Elvin Hayes, and this is when they were still in Baltimore. It was the last year that they were in Baltimore, the 72, 73 season. Before the season, they traded Jack, Jack, Jack. Merrin, who I guess would be the equivalent of like a Kyle Kuzma for Elvin Hayes, who wasn't quite Durant, but he wasn't that many far notches down on how good he was at the time in the NBA. Yeah, it's just that that happened when they were in Baltimore. Yeah. So, yes, two of the tweets of the many that I got in follow-up to this conversation in the call

segment on the radio show, and I'm upset for not remembering it, of course, I was focused on the pro sports teams. But, you know, we're not, and remember, we're not talking about what happened after the acquisition, you know, like Gilbert Arenas. I mean, Gilbert Arinas was a big free agent signing, but nothing, you know, compared to what we're talking about. Moses Malone may have been, correct me if I'm wrong, Andy, may have been the most highly recruited high school basketball player of all time.

And Marilyn... Well, part of it was, yeah, I mean, Part of it was Lefty wanted him. You know, I mean, Tom McMillan was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. When he was in high school, Lefty got him. But, yeah, I mean, just the legendary stories of how they chased him. Yeah, I would think that's probably true. I can't think of anybody else that I'm aware of that you would think of as a more highly recruited player.

By the way, what you just mentioned, you know, Tom McMillan could have been on that list. Tom McMillan was actually a more highly recruited player than Bill Walton. was out of high school. But Patrick Patrick Ewing was the same thing. Patrick Ewing was a generational, you know, big man talent who committed to Georgetown and the anticipation for Patrick Ewing's career was incredible. By the way, I would throw in, not that I consider UVA to be a local team,

but Ralph Samson's recruitment was all time as well. And his debut was way up there also. So there were catching everybody up to speed on some of the comps for Durant. I think Durant would be the number one acquisition of certainly this century. And it would be debatable if it's not the all-time acquisition for any of the four major pro sports teams and, you know, the two big college programs in town, Maryland and Georgetown basketball. Do you agree with that or not?

Yeah, I think so. Let me ask you this. Do you factor in what ultimately happens once that guy comes in, or do you judge it on the moment that he comes in? The moment. How do you judge that? The moment. How big it would be in the moment, how anticipated the debut would be?

That's what I'm talking about. Okay. Well, like, for example, I think of John Riggins, who came here in an odd year of free agency. Right. Like the NFL tried it in 1976, and there were only a couple of teams that participated, and of course George Allen as the coach of the Ben Redskins did, and he brought Riggins in and brought him in as a blocking back. But ultimately, he became the most important player on their first Super Bowl championship team. So in many ways, you could look at it in the

long view of it and say, wow, that's one of the greatest acquisitions ever in the history of pro sports in this town. Wouldn't you look at it that way? Yeah, from that standpoint, no doubt. But I think even in the moment, it was very exciting, not at the level of what we're talking about with Kevin Durant, you know, at all. And even some other players that I'm going to mention that I haven't mentioned today at any point. But it was a big deal when they acquired Riggins in 76. Riggins was a star running back in the NFL. Oh, yeah. No, they rounded them up.

They brought in Calvin Hill, too. I mean, if you said to George Allen, you're free to sign who you want, you know, he was going to go for it. So, yeah, they brought in. They were, like, three or four guys. Dwayne Thomas. Well, Dwayne Thomas was later. Dwayne Thomas was, I think, a year or two later. Dwayne Thomas was 76, I think, right?

Or 74. No, no, I'm sorry. Dwayne Thomas was before. Yeah, he was 74, I think. Yeah. He was, I think he'd been cut for being too difficult. And Alan said, I'll handle him. And he sort of did.

But, yeah, Riggins was 76, so that was later on. But that was an unusual year of free. agency and it really didn't come back to the NFL for what another 15 years or so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so, so Durant on, you know, on the moment, if we take Lombardi out of the conversation, hell, if we take George Allen, that was a big deal, right? Yes, it was. Yep, yep, yep.

The thing about those two, well, with Lombardi, Lombardi was not considered to be instant. This would be instant. Lombardi was, okay, this is a team that's very bad defensively. It's going to take time to build them up. He even said in an early news conference, we're going to be a champion after Sonny Jurgenton's arm falls off. Like, you know, he didn't really think that he was going to win with him. And, you know, he made them a winner right away. And who knows if he didn't live, maybe they would have been a Super Bowl team in three or four years.

But it didn't happen. With George Allen, and he said the future is now, nobody really understood that. you know, could you actually instantly transform a team? And he did. He actually did that. And he got him to a Super Bowl in his second year. I don't think, though, when he came in, the feeling among the fan base was, okay, we're going to the Super Bowl in two years. He's going to do it, right?

That was not my feeling at the time. You know what? That's a really interesting conversation. You know, well in advance, you know, 20 years, more than 20 years prior to free agency coming into the NFL is a full-time thing. George Allen proved that you could turn around a team in a year. Now, it was all via trades, right? It was all via trades.

A lot of the trades dealing with bringing his ex-Rams, they titled them the Ramskins. And they started 5 and 0 in 1971, went on to a 9-4-1 record and went to the playoffs in his first year, and they were in the Super Bowl in year two. I don't know how many times that happened in the NFL, just say in the 70s and 80s or pre, you know, the free agency era. But I would bet that it didn't happen a lot because really the way to build a team in that era was via the draft, the way the Cowboys did it, the way the Steelers did it, which, you know, they built dynasties off of drafting their teams. Nobody did it the way George Allen did.

I can't remember of a team that did it that way. No, well, there was no salary cap, but there weren't many owners who were willing to spend money. Edward Bennett Williams was, and so he agreed to do that. But that was an expensive way to do business, and it was short-term because you were giving away draft picks to do it. And, you know, he brought in some real fines like Diron Talbert in his prime, but he also brought in some aging guys who only gave him a year or two. Jack Partee, Petibon. Richie Petibon. They were good, but only for a year or two.

So the long-term wasn't great. I think he wound up staying seven years, but they pretty much had enough of them by that time, even though he had a successful run. They knew that this was not going to be long-term good for the franchise. No, but I don't think anybody built a team by trading away all of their draft choices back then. No, I think he was the first to do it. And turning around a team that was terrible the year before. I don't know what they were with Bill Austin, five and nine, four and ten,

something like that, six and eight. And so they ended up going to the playoffs in his first year. They went to the playoffs in his first four seasons, missed the playoffs in 75, and we're back in it in 76. So five of his first six years with one Super Bowl appearance, George Allen. By the way, you will remember this more than I. But of all of his acquisitions via trade, what was the one that was the biggest headliner? Was it Billy Kilmer?

No, no, no. Kilmer was brought in to be the backup. Right. Sonny got in training camp in an exhibition game. Okay, so who wasn't? You know, I really don't think there was a headline guy. I think what they did was they brought in a bunch of guys who had been really good players.

I don't think there was, you know, because another team isn't going to give up an all-pro player in his prime for draft pick. So, you know, I mean, I don't think that there really was. I mean, one of the things that he did was he traded. He did draft one player, Cotton Spire, in the second round, and he traded that in training camp for Roy Jefferson. Well, Roy Jefferson had been a good player with the Colt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he could do those kind of things. And what I understand what he did, part in getting these guys, a lot of them I understand were like union leaders.

And the other team wanted to get rid of them because of that. And he liked union leaders because they were leaders. So he would take them on when other teams didn't want them. And they were veterans and making more money than he'd have to pay a rookie or a second year guy. So, you know, there were a lot of things that he was willing to take on that other teams were not. You know, and just, you know, having this conversation that's probably appealing to only the over 60 or over 50 crowd right now. actually as I think about it, and I think I'm right about this, even though George Allen came in and declared the future is now

and fulfilled that commitment by winning right away and making all of these trades and trading away almost all of his draft choices, the truth is the backbone of that team, the best players on that team were already there. Larry Brown, Charlie Taylor, Chris Hamburger, Len Hauss, I'm forgetting some, of course, but the real, the great players on that team were already there. Sonny Jorgensen, who still, even though he got injured, was a key factor in 72 when they went to the Super Bowl before getting injured again.

But he started some big games for them early in the season. Go ahead. Yeah, he did. No, I think if he stayed healthy, they'd have won the Super Bowl. But he didn't. But, yeah, I mean, yeah, they had some excellent players here. But what he brought in was real leadership. And I think Jack Pardee is really one of the underrated players.

that ever played for this team because he was a signal caller for the defense. He knew where everybody was supposed to be. I remember the first game they played. Richie Petibote intercepted three passes. Ricky wasn't much faster than I am, but he knew where to be where the ball was. Right. So he was able to do that. And also, I think Diron Talbert proved to be a really great pickup because he played here like 10 years

and was like George Allen's alter ego. You know, he was the one that did the trash talking that George wanted to do and kind of really set the tone for the team, I think. And that, so that, I think of all the pickups he made, I think that was the most important. Just quickly, total digression. Over the weekend, they had the, what I consider to be the greatest NFL game I've ever watched, which was the Chargers, Dolphins playoff game after the 81 season. You know what I did not remember at all? is that Jack Pardee was the defensive coordinator for Don Coriol's Chargers that year. Well, that figured, didn't it?

Yeah, I mean, they hired Joe Gibbs from the Cori-El tree. Cori-L, who was the head coach of the Chargers, hired Jack Pardee who had been fired prior to that season where Gibbs came in after the 1980 season. I did not remember, but as I was watching the game, there was Jack Pardee as the defensive coordinator of the Chargers for that playoff game. Yeah, and isn't that something, a defensive guy embracing that kind of an offense? Because he later ran it or saw form of it when he was the head coach at the University of Houston.

Right. Well, also is the head coach of the Houston gamblers in the USFL. Yeah, that's right. Because it had a lot of success there, I believe. So. Jim Kelly. Exactly. Ricky Sanders was on that team.

Ricky Stann, and Gary Clark. Oh, Gary Clark was in Oklahoma. Yeah, Gary Clark was not with Houston. I think it was Sanders who was with Houston of the USFL. So the list that would be comparable to Durant would be Lombardi, as we mentioned. I think in this decade, I think the drafting of Harper, Strasbourg, and RG3 are the comps. Because I think that these were three highly, you know, they came with such credentials as young players,

RG3 Heisman Trophy winner, Harper on the cover of Sports Illustrated. It's 16 years old. Strasbourg, the phenom generational talent, and their debuts were so anticipated after their acquisitions. Yeah, no, I think that's probably true. Well, how about this? Would you throw in Michael Jordan? Yes, Jordan was part of the conversation,

but as I mentioned, and you know this, Jordan didn't come to D.C. to play. He came here to be the team president. Right, but when he decided to play, that was an enormous deal, and the assumption was that he would at least get them to the playoffs. And that's what his selling point was for playing, even though he just wanted to play. But his selling point was, oh, I'll get them to the playoffs and show what it takes to win there. That was what he never did. He's only got, what, 37 wins?

Yes, but I think the reason I didn't really want to include it is that he wasn't traded for or acquired or signed as a free agent to come here and play basketball. He was in the organization as a small, you know, owner, equity-wise and the team president where he promptly drafted Kwame Brown. Do you know what I didn't realize until I looked this up and maybe you remember? Do you know that Jordan decided to play in part because of the impact 9-11 had on him? He made that decision two weeks after 9-11, and he donated a portion of his salary to 9-11 victims. I think you're a little fuzzy on that memory. As I remember it, he had decided before that he was going to play. He spent the summer with a lot of his boys getting himself back in shape.

Okay. And as I remember, Kevin, the announcement, official announcement press conference was supposed to take place on 9-11 and got postponed because of that. Very good. And then later, and then said, yeah, as part of the deal, he was donating his salary because, you know, Nike was giving him a billion dollars every minute. So it wasn't a big deal. Not that I, no, that's fair. Not that any of us, either one of us, has spent a lot of time over the years talking soccer, although I actually like it more now

than I did, you know, say five years ago. I mentioned this morning, I remember this. The signing of Johann Kroif, the greatest soccer player in the world at the time. I mean, Paley was playing for the New York Cosmos was a massive piece of sports news in the mid-1970s. And the Washington diplomats signed him. And Andy, I remember going to RFK Stadium as part of like an elementary school birthday party. And that stadium was completely filled for one of his games. There's a forgotten pocket. when soccer was really hot in this country,

and a lot of it had to do with Pele. Pele, I think, sold out the Meadowlands, and didn't he play for the New York Cosmos? Yes, yes, yes. And so off of that, and Pele was the most famous athlete in the world, not just here he was famous, but in the world he was Michael Jordan.

And so, yes, there was that, but it didn't sustain. But yes, Cripe was a part of that period. I remember that. I think that on the list of the greatest soccer players of all time, Croif is very high on that list. And when the diplomats, they were called the dips, by the way, for short. Not an easy nickname to come up with our current football team. But he, at the time, Paley was older,

and I think he was considered the greatest player in the world at that time. He was signed by a North American soccer league. team named the Washington diplomats. All right. I just want to mention, so there are a lot of names mentioned in the conversation this morning. Harper, Strasbourg, RG3, Wayne Rooney, OV. I don't think any of them really would be comparable to Durant.

The Lombardi one in Gibbs Version 2.0 was certainly a massive hire. Here are a couple that I didn't, you know, some people mentioned Dion Sanders. It's not the same level of what Kevin Durant would be. You know, Lavaar Arrington, the drafting of Lavaar Arrington, and also the drafting of Heath Schuller were two that I forgot from this morning, and the drafting of Chase Young just a few years ago. All three of those were massive draft choices that came with highly anticipated debuts. Oh, yeah, no question.

And Heath Schuller held out, too, which didn't help him. But, yeah, the feeling was, okay, they've got their quarterback. And Norv Turner, I think, even made some ridiculous Troy Aikman comparisons, which, you know, which made everybody nuts. So, yeah, there's that. But I think that the real point on the Durant thing is there's no one player that can happen in any sport other than professional basketball that can totally turn your team. from a completely irrelevant situation, which has been in Washington now for 40 years, into a team that could conceivably win the NBA championship. I don't think there's anything like that, any kind of comp like that.

Yeah, and perhaps for this particular team, your example, even though they were in Baltimore at the time, is really the example, even though they were a good team already. The Baltimore Bullets. They made the finals the two years before. But, you know, they were able to trade a journeyman small forward for one. I mean, Elvin Hayes in 1968 was the number one pick of the draft. West Unsell was number two. So you had the two top players, and, you know, that took them to a level where they did play in three NBA panels,

which the organization, which hasn't been in one in over 40 years, that's pretty amazing. All right. You got to go do a radio show. listen to Andy on ESPN 630, 10 to 12. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for doing this. I'll be listening every morning. Talk to you soon. Andy Poland, everybody at Andy Poland 1 on Twitter. Up next, if you're wondering how far the Washington football franchise has fallen in terms of revenues compared to other NFL teams, really interesting conversation next with Sportico's Kurt Bodenhausen. That's next right after

these words from a few of our sponsors. Kurt Boddenhausen is a sports business reporter for Sportico. He formerly wrote about sports for Forbes. You can give him a Twitter follower at K. Bodenhausen. H-O-U-S-E-N. You can follow and subscribe to Sportico by going to Sportico.com. Kurt's been on the show before to talk about things like Washington, you know, franchise valuation, I think I also had you on right after Matsuyama won the Masters to talk about sort of the value,

the financial windfall that was coming his way a few years back. But I reached out to you the other day because you wrote about the current revenue and business condition of the NFL. And it's interesting to me, and I think it's interesting as it relates to Washington and the, you know, football team here, the commanders. and, you know, by the way, the overall financial condition of the NFL, let's not bury the lead, right, Kurt, is pretty damn healthy. But, you know, as it relates to D.C., I do want to get to, you know, kind of the wrecking ball that Dan Snyder's taken to this franchise over the two decades. But I wanted to start with the headline of your most recent story on Sportico, quote, NFL revenue hits record. Where is the league right now in top line revenue? Yeah, they're really firing on all cylinders.

Each team got a check for $345 million last year, $11 billion in total. And that's the equally shared revenue. So those are big sponsorship, media deals, merchandise, business, and it's really the media business that is the overwhelming majority of those TV contracts with Fox and CBS and ESPN. And this is before the next round of deals kick in. That's coming in 2023. You're going to see each team getting way from that equally shared revenue.

So that is really the engine that makes the NFL financial system just so incredible. And then the stadium becomes that differentiator when you're talking about. the cowboys at the top and say the jaguars and lions and bengals down at the bottom. So the 11 billion in top line revenue, 345 million shared through what they share in, meaning the television money and then the shared corporate sponsorship money. What is the total top line revenue number for the NFL? Well, once you add in the stadium, local media, you're talking about $18 billion for 2021. We're still putting the numbers right now, but that is what roughly the number is going to be,

but by far and ahead, almost double with the NBA. And that's why you see someone like Rob Walton, say, $4.65 billion for a team like the Broncos that is not a top quartile franchise in the NFL. Goodell said, I don't know, it was fairly recently, but I think he originally said it a while back. He said at one point he thinks the league will reach $25 billion in top line revenue by 2027. They are on track for that, right?

Oh, 100%. With the new media deals here that are going to kick in, they are absolutely going to hit $25 billion. at the time when he said it, people dismissed it. But you look at the television audience, while every other area is bleeding viewers, the NFL is stronger than ever. It is the top programming overwhelmingly on linear television right now, and they're able to monetize that.

So once the $113 billion agreements kick in, still doing the Sunday ticket deal. And they are poised to take advantage of all these new things that are coming in. Legalized sports betting. They're in the best position. Crypto, you know, wallets had its hiccups over the last few months. It will certainly be there at the NFL at the end. And I think the NFL can take advantage of that.

So at 18 billion in revenue now, maybe headed to 25 billion plus in the next few, years. I'm just curious. Like, where does the NFL, if you consider it to be kind of a consumer or retail business? Do you have any idea, like, where it ranks? I mean, I would assume, like, Walmart and Amazon are way up there and, you know, maybe a bunch of supermarket chains. I have no idea. But it's got to be one of the biggest businesses in the United States. you'd be surprised 18 billion doesn't get to as far as he used to Amazon and Walmart you're talking about 400, 500 billion companies in terms of revenue

they're the biggest two out there and so there are dozens I'd say probably more than 100 companies US-based companies alone with revenue greater than that you wouldn't know it by how much attention the NFL gets So these companies operate in darkness almost relative to all the attention that the NFL gets. And you have people that start really successful companies and nobody knows who they are. Then they go by an NFL team.

Shod Khan is probably the best example of it. And then everybody knows who you are because you're 1 of 32. too. And that's what makes, drives the valuation so high. It's such an exclusive club so that the valuations operate on a much higher level than, say, the economics would lend itself to. You know, that's so true. I mean, that's a supply demand issue. I, you know, it's funny that you said that because, first of all, so Walmart and Amazon are the biggest retail companies. I mean, I was guessing that Walmart had to be, you know, way up there. And I didn't realize that they were that big in terms of revenues.

But what you said is so funny because I think of that all the time. Like you see these people or even potentially run into somebody or you know somebody who knows somebody. And you, he's worth what? You know, really. And what's the company? And you've never heard of it. You don't know what it does.

and there's so many of those stories out there. And the other thing you said reminded me, because for years I have mentioned that while the NFL is a massive business, and as you described, and it's probably true, perception, based on the attention it gets how big it is, the individual teams, you know, are generating, I don't know, you'll tell me 400 plus million on average, in top line revenue.

You know, relatively speaking, those aren't big companies. You know, as the standalone entities, you know, each one of the 32 teams, right? No, 400 million is a dot. I mean, you know, with it, you're talking about this would be a, if it was a publicly traded company

with that level of revenue, I mean, it would be a micro-cap. Right. I mean, this is, this is a blip. And collectively, if you're talking about an average value, say, $4 billion, $120 billion, $130 billion collectively, I mean, Apple's worth $2.5 trillion their market value. So even from a valuation standpoint, which they outpunch their revenue when you're talking about valuations. But, again, with the amount of tension they get.

because it is the number one sport. It is America's pastime, despite baseball pointing that originally. And that's what gets people excited about it. They think there is room to grow the business, because if you can fully monetize the passion of that fan base, and forget about it. If you can figure out a way to bring it outside the U.S., which they haven't been able to do,

but if you can tap into an international audience, then these valuations are going to go up even higher as well as the revenue, certainly. Yeah, I want to get to valuations on teams, especially in the wake of the Denver sale. But you mentioned out punching their weight. I mean, I would certainly guess that valuations and sale prices as multiples on profitability on EBITAN, numbers are way out punching their weight class, right? Well, for years, and even now, bankers typically look at these teams on multiples of revenue. Yeah. And one reason is that teams didn't make money.

I mean, you know, it was like the late 1990s Internet companies, and they all got valued on multiples of sales because they had no profit. And that's how sports were for a long time. time. The way the CBAs are set up now, their teams are much more profitable than they traditionally happen. When you're talking about the NFL, everybody's profitable, highly profitable. So the way people are looking at it, I think they are looking at profits a little bit, but it's still a multiple of sales. But they do, particularly the NFL, because profits are so consistent. They do look at multiples of earnings, the traditional PE method, and those values,

again, they're like, you know, internet companies, tech companies that are growing super fast. The NFL isn't growing really fast. It grows revenue consistently, but it's not seeing 20%, 25% sales growth on a year-over-year basis. Look, before I got into this business, I lived in as, you know, one of the founders of one of those internet companies that didn't get valued when we took it public on a multiple of revenue. It was a multiple of projected revenue because we didn't have any revenue, you know, basically at the time.

So that was, those were really the crazy Wild Wild West days. of 20 some years ago. So, you know, the other thing about it, too, is, you know, the media deals, the NFL, for all intents and purposes, is it fair to say that it essentially is keeping network TV alive? Yeah, I think sports in general. Live sports, yeah. Live sports are keeping the bundle together 100%, and the NFL is the most important. piece of that ecosystem. So you can certainly make that argument.

You know, they're all looking, and the NFL is no different, and we'll see it with their Sunday ticket deal. They're all looking at streaming as well because they want, as they say, fish where the fish are. And you've lost tens of millions of people from cable. and so you've got to, you have to reach them through streaming that audience, whether it's what MLS did with Apple, which is the extreme case of putting everything, or almost everything streamed, and I mean very little on linear TV or the NFL, as consistently said, we want everything available to the biggest audience possible. But they are certainly going to look at this linear.

television idea. So, excuse me, a streaming deal with Sunday ticket. So it is 100% live sports is really the only thing keeping the lights on. Do you see the NFL, you know, I don't know, five years from now, 10 years from now still being available on Fox in CBS and NBC? Well, they're locked in right now for 10 years. Okay, so beyond that with the next round of deal. So we try to figure out what's going to happen beyond 10 years out, 20 years out all the time in terms of the delivery method. I have no idea how it's going to be delivered then. But the content is going to be incredibly valuable. My guess is the next round of TV deals would offer some combination of being available on linear TV and through streaming.

I find it hard to believe that the NFL will make the leap to just a streaming product in the next round of TV deals. But the NFL recognizes the value of its content. And so part of them, you know, there's an audience that says, why aren't we just doing all this? Why are, you know, yeah, we get this big media fee, but why is the middleman collecting any of this money? We can control the whole thing. It's so big. Why don't we just stream everything and do everything? Control production.

Control all the revenue. So there is that argument to be made, but right now the network is throwing so much money at them, that it's a no-brainer to take those jokes. We're talking to Kurt Bodenhausen from Sportico. I really do want to get to the specifics of the Washington situation right now, but this is interesting to me. And I'm curious as to whether or not you think, because here we are, and we're talking about the NFL and its health and its projected health, you know, in the monster that it is and the monster that it will continue to become.

And yet, you know, there's always this conversation, you know, CTE conversation, concussion conversation, the decrease in youth participation, in tackle football in particular. and whether or not there's any possibility that this sport will go the way of, you know, boxing to a certain degree, you know, long term. If, if, you know, and especially as we become, you know, a continuing, evolving society and people, you know, will, do you think that there's any threat, any legitimate threat to the future of tackle football at a professional? level, college level, et cetera. Oh, 100%. I think it's out there. I think if you're looking back five, ten years ago, I think

those concerns were significantly higher and probably impacted maybe on a valuation standpoint. People buy it in because when you're buying in an NFL team, you're not buying it for the next five years. You're buying it for the next 25 years.

I mean, the average ownership tenure in the NFL right now is 41 years. Right. I mean, these teams don't trade in and out. I mean, you're buying it to pass to your heirs. That's how people are approaching these franchises. And so I think that was very much a concern that the NFL in 30 years or 40 years would be looked at like smoking is today. And so just because it's the number one sport doesn't mean it has to be number one forever and you bring up boxing, which is a great example.

I think the NFL is very conscientious of this issue. I think they have introduced safety, more safety around the game, and helping with the issue of players not getting 20 concussions during the course. of their career and not sending people out there with a concussion, which certainly helps. I would think the long-term health. But that is a risk factor, absolutely. And the declining numbers in the number of people playing the sport is definitely a risk factor. And so does that impact what the front, what things look like?

In 25 years, 100% as possible. But right now, and that's probably maybe one of the reasons why NFL teams are selling for, say, 7, 8 times revenue, and you've got NBA teams selling for 10 times revenue. The NBA is definitely deemed as deemed as better growth opportunity. And the NFL is this legacy business that spits off a ton of cash right now. The future's good, but, you know, is it the sport that everybody's going to want to be a part of in 25 years? I don't know, but it's not disappearing. It's not going to run into the role of boxing, but whether it is the number one sport, no question about it,

and a huge gap to number two, that 100% we could see change. I mean, I could see personally, I could see a day. in which, you know, players have to sign some sort of waiver of, you know, of liability on the league's part. And you're always going to have, right, a demographic where this is their way out. This is their way and they're willing to take that risk. I mean, there are a lot of jobs in this country that come with significant health risks. But the popularity of the product and maybe, perhaps the demographics of the actual participants may change a little bit? I don't know.

I'm just thinking out loud here as to, because I agree with you, I don't think, certainly not in my lifetime, and I don't know in my kid's lifetime. I don't think football is going away, and I don't think football is going to become less popular, but maybe the way it draws its players will change. I think that's shifting. Yeah.

It's happening right now. You're seeing participation. I mean, participation is down across the board, but it is most acute in upper middle class neighborhoods that aren't sending their kids to play football. They don't want them doing it. Right. Let's get to Washington.

You know, you mentioned the media deals and the $345 million check that all 32 teams get after, you know, the TV deals and the, you know, the merchandise and sponsorship deals that are shared with all 32 teams. What does Washington look like right now in overall revenue? So, taking in the $345 million and then adding everything else they get, you know, ticket sales, concessions, parking, local corporate sponsorships, all of the other revenue sources. Tell me what their revenues look like right now as compared to the rest of the league. Well, I'll give you one area, but they look like the NFL generates internal report on ticket revenue.

And so they share it with all 32 clubs. It looks at net ticket revenue from general seating and club seating. It looks at number of tickets sold, and it looks at the visitor team share, which is basically the amount that goes into a pool that everybody. splits up and everybody got a check last year. We're familiar with that because that's where this guy, Jason Friedman, accused them of shorting the league in that shared revenue number. Exactly. So I don't want to delve into that. But in terms of net ticket revenue for the 2021 season, Washington ranks 31st. The only team behind it was the Detroit lions.

So they were right behind Jacksonville Jaguars, Arizona Cardinals. So that's, I mean, which is just mind-numbing to me to think back to when I first started doing this a million years ago, I mean, the stadium was packed, the waiting list with 80,000 fans for season tickets. You couldn't get a seat. and to see where the franchise is now, every year we think it's hitting rock, you know,

it's hit rock bottom, but it keeps dropping further. You know, the hope is the rebrand, the new stadium, everybody comes back. I don't know. I don't know,

but the situation right now is bad. Now they do better than that. They're not 31st. sponsorship revenue. But sponsors are fed up with what's going on, too. Where are they in sponsorship? That was my next question. Where are they ranked in sponsorship?

I don't know where they are. Exactly where they are. But the report that came out over the last couple months with ticket revenue, I had a few people walk me through it over the last few weeks. And the Las Vegas Rangers are first, which is interesting. followed by San Francisco and then the Patriots. But it's not good. It's not good at all.

They really need to figure out the stadium situation, really need to figure out how to move forward with everything that's going on with the team and getting called in front of congressional hearings. It's a mess. No two ways about it. I want to make sure I'm clear on the net ticket revenue. That's net of the what, the suite and the club, like the premium seat sales?

I'm sorry, just net. It's net of taxes. Okay, okay, gotcha. So 31st in the league. So the lines are 51 million. Washington is just a pick ahead of that. And at the top of the food chain, you're talking about the Las Vegas is 119 million. Washington's right below them at 117.

Excuse me. This goes right behind them at 117. So 31st, just barely ahead of the Lions. You know, it's actually also interesting about that number, Kurt, is that, you know, just a back of the envelope, you know, sort of sketching out of the percentage of fans that have attended games that aren't even fans of the team, but they're the opponent's fans,

that number is probably close to 50%. So without cowboy fans and Eagle fans and giant fans being in that stadium, I mean, they'd be dead last by miles. Yeah, yeah. Well, everybody gets a little bit of that. I know, but not like them. And Vegas is part of the reason Vegas number one, because every visiting fan circles that date and says, ooh, I want to go see my team play in Vegas because I want to go to Vegas. So they snap up tickets.

Yeah, no, no, the Vegas thing is obvious. I mean, that's going to be the number one trip for NFL fans road trip for probably the next decade until they've, you know, for the NFC teams that will only get a shot fan bases, you know, every three, four, five years, whatever it is. That's going to be huge. But I don't think anybody, you know, maybe the Cowboys in aggregate numbers, but in terms of percentage of the fans that are actually at the games, I can't imagine that there is a fan base or a stadium that attracts. a higher percentage of opponents fans to games than FedEx Field. So, you know, you mentioned that you don't think that the other, you know, ancillary kind of local revenue is a good number, 31st on net ticket revenue. And then you've got all the other, you know, local sponsorship money. They lost their beer sponsor, Anheuser Bush in March.

I mean, I've got to imagine, and I don't know the answer to this, I'll ask you, is a beer sponsorship the largest, you know, revenue generator in terms of local NFL sponsorship opportunities or not? It's a big one. I mean, your stadium is number one. Your stadium naming rights is number one, I should say. But beer, I mean, it's one of those, yeah, it's one of those core categories. every building set up a little different in terms of what assets you want to include in that.

You have like the Giants and Jets have corner partnerships where they sell basically the entire corner of the stadium to one single sponsor. There's so much inventory that those numbers get really big. but, oh, beer is at the top of the food chain in terms of NFL sponsorships. I mean, I would imagine even an organization as reprehensible as, you know, Snyder's Washington commanders, that they'll have a beer sponsor. I mean, you can't be a sports team and not have a beer sponsor. That would really speak loudly about the way sponsors feel about your team, right? I mean, I can't imagine that there's a sports team that doesn't have a significant beer sponsor. Yeah.

I mean, these are hard situations, though. You know, who's looking to get on board right now and have a press release put out that you're signing on to sponsor the club with everything in the headlines? It's certainly a challenge for the organization. So if $345 million is the starting point for all 32 teams equally, in terms of the, I'm assuming the Cowboys are the number one overall revenue generator, right? Yes, by a long shot. So where is Washington now on the list of 32 teams in total revenue? We're crunching the numbers right now.

Okay. Talk to me at the beginning of the season. we'll have it all stored. Well, they used to be number two. I'm wondering how far they've fallen. I'm assuming it's in the bottom of third. It's in the bottom third of the league. Yeah, I would say they're approaching the bottom third.

Yeah. Okay. They're quickly moving there. All right. So with all of this understood, kind of the erosion of, you know, the other revenue. If Dan Snyder sold the team voluntarily or was forced to sell, what do you think the team would sell for? Especially when you consider that Denver, you know, smaller market, you know, I don't think it's the same kind of market demographically in terms of, you know, the upside and revenue. It doesn't have the pent up demand.

I mean, there's still pent up demand if Snyder left. I think a lot of people would come back. But what do you think Washington's worth if it hit the open market? More than Denver. That I can tell you. If Washington ended up for sale, you would have people lining up down the street to buy that club. It is a, even with having to spend $2 billion on top of the team to get to do a new stadium.

You're probably, you're looking at $5 billion, give or take, to how many people, for these things to really go through the roof, and part of the reason why Denver reached the levels it did is you need multiple, very wealthy people willing to write a check. In the case of Carolina, David Tepper was really the only, call it the only whale looking to come in and write that check by himself. And so probably suppress the price a little bit, $2.28 billion. In this situation of Denver, the very attractive market, multiple people were willing to go well over for the team.

And you talk about a market like D.C., that despite how... how bad things have been over the last decade plus. I think you would attract a lot of bidders. East Coast team with close proximity, New York, Philadelphia. You'd certainly, the sale would start with the five. That's for sure. I mean, is it possible that we get to six? Anything's possible with the NFL.

The stadium situation is really tricky because, again, you're going to have to process. probably how much public money you're really going to get. So it might cost you another $2 billion for the stadium. Now that will help you generate more revenue, but you start looking at some really big numbers. Part of it with the NFL is, as long as one of these teams come up for sale only every, say, four years,

they're all going to sell for a huge number. if you have multiple teams suddenly hit the market, what happens then? That would certainly be an interesting exercise. If you had two or three teams up for sale at the same time, that would really ding the price on these. But the current way things have been going, it's literally one every four years.

If you look back how many new billionaires have been created, over the last 10 years, and you've only had two or three NFL teams sold. It's an interesting way to look at it. I don't know if I kind of sense that you implied this, that you think that there will be more NFL teams available? Oh, I don't think so. No, anything's possible. I'm just saying a total hypothetical academic exercise,

what would happen is suddenly true. or three hit the market. And no, nobody's for sale right now, but who knows what happens in Washington, Seattle's going to be sold eventually. Despite her proclamation

10 to 20 years to unwind the estate, I haven't talked to a single person that thinks that team won't be sold in the next three or four years. She might buy it, you know, potentially, but it's It's going to go up for sale, like probably in the next two years.

And then you have to get a handful of owners that are getting up there. Pretty old. You know, Virginia Cass is 99. Hopefully they've done good estate planning and keep it in the family and they want to run it. But it creates a tricky situation as these valuations go up and up and up. to pass them along. Yeah, I know. It's the next generation.

What is your current opinion on the situation here with Snyder and all that is going on with Congress and with Mary Jo White investigation? Do you have any gut feel as to where it leads? I have no idea.

I have no idea. It's obviously a very tricky situation. And for NFL owners to vote to try and remove Dan Snyder, who will fight being removed as an owner from anyone I've talked to. It's a tricky precedent because, you know, they, I have no idea how it's going to unfold, though. I really don't.

But if it just came down to what's good for business, they would have run them a while back because this market is underperforming in a major way. Like that can't be debated. And I would imagine all 31 owners and the commissioner feel the exact same way about it, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, they don't like to see what's going on in Washington. I mean, we don't have revenue share. I mean, in the same, you know, the high revenue teams used to support the low revenue team

with direct revenue sharing like they do in baseball. That doesn't happen anymore. But, you know, you see a little bit of it. If we talk about that gate receipt report, that shared gate number is lower because fans aren't going to games in Washington. Dramatic the impact that one franchise can have on that number that each team gets. but but it's i mean the bigger problem than the money is just the uh the cloud that it puts over the whole sport um i mean that that's the problem uh the same thing is the te cloud that really

hung over it for a while when they were going through uh the concussion settlement and and and different studies were coming out and i i do think they've moved on from that uh but it's It just puts all every one of these hearings and allegations that come out. It puts a cloud over all 32 teams. Yeah, I mean, I've wondered, you know, obviously in the wake of George Floyd, the driver in the team being forced to move on from its name, the Redskins, was Federal Express and Fred Smith, and it was PepsiCo. And it was, you know, it was brass tax dollars.

that were being threatened to be removed from the team that really drove it, you know? And because the truth is it was not, the issue had actually started to wane a little bit. There was a 2016 Washington Post poll where 90% of Native Americans polled said that they didn't consider it to be a pejorative name, that it was not insensitive. And so, you know, there for a moment they seemed to be in the clear. and then we had Fred Smith, who obviously was a disenchanted minority owner of the team. All three of them turned quickly on him. But that changed it.

And I've suggested this in the past. Like, you know, if really Snyder continued to be as toxic as he is, if big television sponsors might go to the league and say, we want to continue to sponsor the NFL. but when their team is playing, we don't want our spots to run in those games. You know, like there could be a way where that big TV deal could drill down to one team and be impactful to the league. I don't know. I mean, that seems like a reach, even as I say it.

But it's it, but it was dollars that ultimately drove them from Redskins into, you know, who they are today. commanders, it's tough for some of us to say who have been lifelong Washingtonians and fans at the team. Money talks. I mean, there's no two ways about it. And so if those conversations are happening, just leave it at money talks. One more for Kurt Bodenhausen from Sportico, who's been incredibly generous with his time. So the Nationals are up for sale. The learners have retained an investment banker. They're going to sell the team. I don't know how much you have followed this story.

I'm not necessarily interested in what you think they'll sell for. I'm interested in the news related to the hot Nationals news, which is Juan Soto, and him turning down their big deal. And I'm wondering, and maybe you don't have an answer to this, but would it be more attractive for a prospective buyer to have Soto, on the books for say a half billion dollars but locked in for the next 15 years or to be traded or the third option would be let them hang there for a while until they take over the team and they can figure out the best answer I can't figure out what would be of more value to a

prospective buyer and maybe it's a very subjective question but I'm just curious as to whether or not you've given it any thought? I have given it thought. I've had a conversation with lots of people, and I think you're spot on. It is totally subjective. What are you looking for as a buyer? Are you looking for a clean slate?

I want to start over. I don't want that half a billion dollar obligation sitting over my head on top of what the deferred salaries. I've got to pay Max Scherzer and Steven Strasberg. Or do you want, like, I'm coming in, and I know I have this piece to build around, and I'm excited about it. I think there's a good argument, despite the total number, seeming so astronomical.

I think there's a very good argument to be made that it's a good deal, assuming he stays healthy, which is a big F. 29 million dollars is a very affordable salary for a top five player in the sport. So I think it's totally preferential what somebody would want. I think in the same way that would, is the Los Angeles Rams with this shiny new stadium not much of a history, even though they just, did I say St. Louis Rams? I'm at Los Angeles Rams. Yeah, no, it's awesome.

Los Angeles Rams. Yeah. Do you want that team, or do you like the New York Jones? who share a stadium that doesn't get great reviews, share with the chips, have been terrible the last few years, but have this incredible legacy brand. You're buying two totally different things right now, both in big markets, and it's buyer's choice, I think. And that's what all of these assets are with sports.

There's so few of them in the top. leagues and each one is so unique it's such a unique situation and that's that's what makes each of the sales so fun and that's what was fun to watch with the Broncos sale fun to watch with a Chelsea sale as crazy as that was so I I think it is it really comes down to buyer's choice I think some would view the contract as a asset if he was locked up long term, and I think others would look at it as a liability. Yeah, and a big albatross in terms of what that number would end up being. I don't think he's going to sign a long-term deal for two and a half years anyway,

so it's probably a moot point. But this was great. I really appreciate it. I'll have you on again because I wanted to get to the Live Tour, but I've kept you for four too long, but it's been really interesting and really informative. I appreciate it. Follow Kurt on Twitter at K. Bodenhausen, B-A-D-E-N-H-A-U-S-E-N. Sportico is a great sports business outlet, and Kurt's one of the best. Thank you so much for your time. We'll talk soon.

Thanks so much, Kevin. Enjoyed it. All right, that's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy.