The Kevin Sheehan Show - Scot McCloughan On Washington's Draft

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Kevin opened with Washington's NFL Schedule starting to come together. Former Redskins' GM Scot McCloughan joined Kevin to talk about a number of topics including the Commanders' 2025 draft. Scot also weighed in with his evaluation and thoughts about Shadeur Sanders and told some good Skins' draft day stories.   Goldbelly.com, code sheehan, for free shipping and 20% off your first order of food from around the US.  Go To WindowNation.com. Buy 4 windows, get 4 free!Betting on sports? Go to mybookie.ag. Use code KEVINDC for a bonus!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Former Washington general manager, Scott McLuhan's going to be on the show with me today. We've talked to Scott in recent years after the draft. Typically, we'll get his thoughts on how Washington did in their draft just a few weeks ago.

The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Windonation, 86690 Nation, Windonation.com. looking for new windows. Mention my name, they'll come out and give you a free, no risk, no obligation in-home estimate. This from Kerry in Palo Alto, California to open up the show. Kerry writes, Kevin, commanders fan out here in Northern California. Heard your rant on Jimmy Butler's Game 4 no-show. Not sure if you saw this, but Kerr said he was sick.

Just thought you might want to know. Go Burgundy and Gold, hoping we play a game out here next February. Winking emoji after that. I had to think about what that meant for maybe five seconds, and then I remembered next season's Super Bowl is in Santa Clara, California, February 8, 2026, south of Kerry in Palo Alto. But that's where the Super Bowl is. So, yeah, if Washington ends up playing a game in the Bay Area,

out in Northern California next season, it would come in the Super Bowl, unless they have a preseason game out there, which I doubt. They never play West Coast teams in the preseason. Carrie, I didn't hear or read about this until reading your email. I went and looked it up. Steve Kerr made an appearance, I guess it's a weekly appearance, on Sports Radio 957 The Game in San Francisco. This was yesterday. He said, quote, Jimmy was under the weather last night. He really wasn't feeling well, and that definitely impacted him.

Everybody knows who Jimmy is. He's one of the great playoff performers, and I expect him to have a big game tomorrow. But he's feeling better and will be ready to go tomorrow night, closed quote. Tomorrow night, meaning tonight. Tonight is game five between the Warriors and the Timberwolves in Minnesota. Minnesota leads the series three games to one, and they can clinch the series tonight. I appreciate you sending that, Carrie, because, you know, there was outrage and also curiosity from all corners of the NBA playoff world about Jimmy Butler's game four and how passive it was and how, you know, I call it non-participatory. I mean, he was absent from the game. His performance was curious to. to say the least, borderline suspicious. He shot just nine times and passed up like five layups to pass out late in the shot

clock to non-shoot. It was a total no-show. And I referred to it on the show yesterday with Tommy as suspicious because, you know, although he did it once before in the NBA finals a few years ago after having some all-world performances, look, as I said yesterday, Jimmy Butler's had some of the greatest playoff individual performances in recent memory. He's carried very, very average teams to the NBA finals. And without Steph the other night, they needed him to go for 35 plus, and he wasn't even trying.

So look, I don't know if Kerr is protecting Butler or if he's being 100% truthful. But he did not appear. I didn't read anywhere to disclose what the illness was. Butler better get 40 or more tonight in Minnesota or the warrior season is over. And so is my plus 900 warriors to win the Western Conference wager that I made the day after they traded for Jimmy Butler. What Nicola Yokic did last night is what Butler needs to do tonight. Yokic, for those that missed it, I'm assuming many of you, with one. of the best performances, if not the best performance of the playoffs so far.

44 points on 17 of 25 from the field, 15 rebounds, five assists. He became the only player in NBA playoff history to record two games in the same series of 40 plus points, 15 plus rebounds, five or more assists. Nobody's ever done it more than twice in an entire post. season, LeBron did it once in an entire postseason, Yokic became the first to do it twice in a single series. No Jordan, no LeBron, no wilt. I mean, Yokic is so special and an insane performance last night. Although it wasn't good enough, the role players for Denver, Michael Porter, Jr., in particular, just could not make open shots. If they had, Yokic would have had 10 plus

assists and they would have won the game with him finishing with a 40, 15, 10 plus triple double. Great series. Oklahoma City is a game away from clinching, and we are heading towards with Indiana finishing off Cleveland last night and five. I mean, the NBA relying on the Knicks to get to the finals, man, because it could shape up as Minnesota versus Indiana in the NBA finals or Oklahoma City versus Indiana in the NBA finals. And Indiana can certainly beat the Knicks in the best of seven. All right, let's get to what you came for. Schedule talk here on schedule release Thursday, May 14th. So, as of the recording of

this podcast, which is roughly five and a half hours before the NFL officially unveils the entirety of the NFL schedule, it's about 2.30 right now, Eastern. You know, there have been leaks. There have been reports, including a couple from me earlier in the day, earlier this morning. But I think we have right now, as of mid-afternoon, on the day of the schedule, I think we've got a significant number of games sort of penciled in at this point. It is amazing. I've mentioned this before, the interest in the NFL schedule. The number of reports leaks, just the overall attention, this schedule release gets. I mean, can you imagine being the NBA or Major League Baseball or the NHL?

Look, their schedule releases are different because they're releasing a schedule of, you know, 82 games or in the case of baseball, 162 games. But can you imagine them watching the attention the NFL's schedule release gets and realizing that their games, playoff games, don't generate anywhere near the attention that the NFL's schedule release gets? All right, so as of this moment, 2.37 p.m. Eastern, this is what I think we can say with a, you know, relative high degree of confidence, you know, based on official league or network announcements and what I would call some reliable, solid reporting or leaking of which, yes,

I was a part of earlier today. So let's just start and go chronologically. Week one, the season opener, at least according to a fairly reliable source in New York, who had some of the Giants schedule, Washington will open against the Giants on Sunday, September 7th at home. That is an afternoon game. I have not seen 1 o'clock or 425, but I believe it's going to be. 1 o'clock.

Week 2. Very short week. At Packers, Thursday night football. All right. So at Green Bay Thursday night football. I had this earlier this morning. I kind of knew it was week two, but I had the opponent Thursday night football early in the season

confirmed and put that out via Twitter. It was week two at Packers Thursday night football. Based on reporting, it looks like week six against the Bears on Monday night football, a rematch of the Hail Mary game. I also had this, that Washington would be playing Kansas City on Monday night football. By the way, I'm referring to what I tweeted out earlier this morning before I think anybody else had this stuff. Not my mock schedule. I'm not referring to my mock schedule.

Although I'm not far off on a few things on the mock schedule. We've got a couple of things right, but we'll review the whole thing tomorrow. But at Chief's Monday night football looks like week eight or week nine. It also appears as if Washington, okay, we knew the Dolphins game in Spain in week 11 in Madrid. It now, according to some pretty good reporting, the Broncos, week 13. at home on Sunday night football. That would be Thanksgiving weekend, right? Yes, that would be Thanksgiving weekend, November 30th.

So they're not playing on Thanksgiving. I got that part right in the mock. They're playing in Madrid and on Christmas Day. Get to that in a moment. But week 13, Denver at home on Sunday night football. And then, based on some solid reporting, J.P. Finley had some of this, and I had the Christmas Day game. Week 16, we knew Philadelphia on December 20th at home. We knew that one yesterday. And then I had early this morning and was able to confirm

through multiple sources, they are going to play the Cowboys on Christmas Day, Netflix, 1 p.m. So it's the first game of what will be a Christmas Day triple header featuring Washington and Dallas in Landover at 1 o'clock, Minnesota and Detroit in the second game, and then Denver in Kansas City in the final game. And then week 18, J.P. Finley had this at Eagles on the road. That's what we know so far. I've seen reports out there, but I'm not willing to buy into a few of these. Like I've seen Seattle on Sunday night football, I think week nine. I'm not saying that it's not right. I'm just saying that I'm going with this stuff that was either announced by the league or its network partners or was reported by somebody totally credible, that I don't

have any doubts are right. So there you go. So let's quickly talk about it. Giants, you know, a bit of a surprise. I really thought Washington would be featured in some sort of prime time game week one. The Giants, by the way, play Washington, Philly, and then I think it's Dallas and KC in their first four games. Welcome to New York Russell Wilson. Good luck on that one. Who knows? I mean, it's the NFL. It's a week-to-week league.

We understand that. This is why I'm not going to get caught up, although Tommy might want to do it. No, he won't. I know if I were still doing some sort of show with Andy Poland, he would be making me go through the entire schedule. W-L-W and coming up with a final record. I don't think we're going to do that. I've passed on doing that in recent years because it's just kind of ridiculous because you just don't know.

But you can look at things like net rest days. You can look at things like back-to-back, how many games in a row in the road, how many short turnarounds. Washington right now has a Thursday night game in week two at Lambo against the Packers and they'll have a fairly short turnaround when they go Saturday, December 20th to Christmas Day, a Saturday to Thursday situation.

As of now, they have one, two, the reporting and league announcements, three, four prime time. I expect one to two more, and I have seen some of the Seattle Sunday night football prime time reports. I expect at least five prime time, and you have high-profile games in Spain against the dolphins on Saturday, December 20th as one of the two games on that day against the Eagles, and then obviously on Christmas Day against the Cowboys. So, you know, the Giants in the opener, you know, let me tell you right now, okay, I'm installing Washington playing odds maker here as an eight and a half point favorite. We'll know tomorrow.

MyBooky will have week one points spreads out by tomorrow, probably no later than Friday, but I bet they'll be out even late tonight if you want to go to mybooky.com or mybooky.orgie.orgie. And use my promo code, Kevin D.C. but the Giants at home, one o'clock game more likely than not. I haven't seen an official time on that. They're going to be more than a touchdown favorite. I mean, the least they would be favored by seven.

I could see them favored by as many as nine. I'm going to say Washington minus eight and a half over the Giants in the opener. Short turnaround at Lambo, week two, wasn't the Christmas Day game, as I thought it had a chance. to be yesterday, but, you know, at least you don't have to go to Lambo in December in frigid weather. Yeah, I mean, the coldest games that Jaden had to play in last year were at home, you know,

late in the season. We had cold games last year, if you recall, I mean, it was an odd season in that, you know, we had a cold game starting with that it was that Dallas game. I think Sunday before Thanksgiving was a super chilly game. They played in Philly. I mean, we had a cold winter. They had cold games against the Eagles. That game in December was cold.

The Atlanta game. Actually, I forget whether or not that was a real cold game. And I guess the Philly NFC title game was chilly. But you don't have to go to Lambo in cold weather. Bears, I figured, would be, you know, a primetime game. predicted, you know, week two Monday night football in the mock, but it looks like week six. I think JP had that one week six against the Bears on Monday night football. At Chiefs, sometime late October, it looks like week eight in Arrowhead on Monday night football.

I had that as a Sunday nighter. Look, the last time they played the Chiefs, right, was, you know, in Arrowhead was 2017 on Monday night football. Broncos, you know, a, that's an interesting, you know, battle between two of the rookie quarterbacks from last year, Bo Nix and Jaden Daniels, a Sunday nighter at home. Here's where the schedule, I think, gets really strange. The Madrid game we've already talked about, Week 11, and that is playing the Eagles twice in the final three weeks of the season, because I'm surprised at that, in part because the second Philadelphia game on the road in week 18.

I mean, that may benefit Washington, man, because that could be a game that one or maybe both teams don't have a lot to play for. Maybe seeding, maybe the playoffs. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe it's for the number one seed in the NFC playoffs, just like Detroit, Minnesota was last year in the final Sunday night game of the year, the final game of the regular season.

But you take a risk when you take a really high-profile matchup, the two Eagles games. I figured one of them and mocked one of them in week 16 would be late in the season. But that second one, you're taking a chance because there is much more of a probability of the game not meaning something to one of the two teams, if not both. So I thought that game would get scheduled for prime time Sunday night football, Monday night football, sometime in October or November. I really thought that that's the biggest, based on what we know so far, and I'll have a complete recap of the actual full schedule tomorrow. But that's the thing that surprises me the most is that the league would take that second Philadelphia Washington game and put it in week 18. Not to mention they're playing twice in three weeks. You know, that's, and look, Washington will have kind of a mini-buye going into that season finale, having played on Christmas Day.

So, yeah, I thought that that was of the things that we've learned by far and away, the most interesting. And we'll have Mike North, you know, one of the schedule makers back on the show. He said he would come on after the schedules out. I'm not going to ask him for tomorrow. or Friday, but we'll try to get them on sometime next week or the week after. But I'm going to ask him about why Philadelphia, Washington, twice over the final three weeks, with one of them being in week 18. You actually see every year in the NFL scheduling, the week 18 games aren't always the most

attractive divisional matchups. They are divisional, all of them. But it's, you know, like Detroit, Minnesota last year, they were scheduled for week 18. nobody thought when they scheduled it that that was going to be for the number one seed in the NFC. If they were trying to create that opportunity or the best chance for it, they would have scheduled Detroit and Green Bay.

But Minnesota turned out to have a great season last year, unexpectedly. So, yeah, that would be a surprise. And again, not opening up in prime time, getting Jaden Daniels into a prime spot week one is surprising to me. You know, there were, other schedule, there's a lot of other schedule news today. I'll tell you this, man, Kansas

City, Dallas on Thanksgiving Day, that will, that's a blockbuster. And it looks like it's Detroit and Green Bay early on Thanksgiving Day. I've not seen the Thanksgiving night game yet. I don't know if that's out yet or not. Yeah. So we got a lot of schedule news out there, focused primarily just on what we know from the Washington's schedule. And tomorrow we'll go through the whole thing when it is out. All right. Scott McLuhan, after these words from a few of our sponsors. I introduced many of you to Goldbelly a few months back, and I want to keep talking about it today,

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86690 Nation, windownation.com. All right. Joining me right now is Scott McLuhan. Love having Scott on the show after the draft. I think we've done this now a few years in a row, at least maybe three or four years in a row. Scott, by the way, is still doing a lot of consulting work with NFL teams on their draft prep. So that's why we can't have Scott on before the draft because he's actually working. But of course, Scott was the GM here in Washington in 2015 and 2016.

Prior to that, the 49ers general manager for several years, the Seattle Senior Director of Personnel for several years as well. Scott joins us right now. So real quickly, before we get to this draft and then specifically to Washington's draft, I know you're busy, you know, year-round watching a lot of college games and a lot of college tape. About how many, I know you can't tell me which teams, but about how many teams are in the Scott McLuhan consulting group. How many teams are you helping out? quite a few almost too many to tell you the truth it's all good it keeps me busy

the thing about it's being a consultant I'm not traveling I'm not doing school calls I'm not doing combine I'm not doing all-star games I just sit here in my house I watch tape and I write reports for him do you miss it though do you miss not being able to call the shots I miss the fact

of the partnerships you got with players Right. You know, the relationships you made with them and their families, and that's what I missed the most. You know, calling the shots, anybody can try to do that. Anybody, you know, and you're good or you're bad. It plays itself out.

Right. But, yeah, no, I just miss the relationships with the players and the coaches. So there's no missing of being a part of something that when the games start in the fall, you've got a vested interest because you're working for that specific team. No, no. I have the best of interest no matter what. I mean, I've been with, right now, I'm with five teams and all five made the playoffs. And a couple years ago, one won the Super Bowl. I've been to six Super Bowls now. I mean, I've been very lucky. I got four rings. You know, it's really cool. But, yeah, I just, you know, it's, you know, when you get older and, you know, you know how life works. All of a sudden, you get to the point where I got to deal with. coaches are messed up or pissed off. I got to deal with secretaries that the guys, you know, whatever, staring at or different or whatever. I don't miss that at all.

I just miss being on the practice field and then watching tape and being with my scouts. You worked with Dan Quinn. I'm sure I've asked you this before because I think you were on with me last year. But what do you think of the job Dan Quinn's doing in D.C.? Phenomal. It's phenomenal. And I'm telling you what, the guy's a stud. The guy, not just as a coach, you know, I get he's defensive-minded.

That's his background. I get it. You know, we lost Gus Bradley in Seattle. Dan took over. Right. We didn't break stride. And, but the thing about him is he's a better person out the field. He's, and all he wants to do is listen and learn.

You know, and it's, it's great. I'm telling you, it's great for the commanders from the standpoint that he's that type of guy. You know, I was lucky enough to be with Mike Holmgren. And he was like 50-50 listening or not listening, which is fine. I was young. You know, but then Pete Carroll, all he wanted to do is get information. And Pete Carroll taught Dan Quinn how to be a head coach. And it's legit.

It's good stuff. Did your paths ever cross with Adam Peters anywhere? Oh, yeah, on the road, scouting. Yeah. It's college scouts. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we meet up at, you know, all of a sudden you go into a school and you start watching tape, you know, college.

And you start watching tape and then scouts come in, scouts come in. Oh, yeah. No, no. He's a good guy. Really good guy. All right. So before we get to Washington's draft, which, you know, I and all my listeners are most interested to hear your thoughts on, what did you think of this?

draft going in. How did you describe the draft to anybody that asked you before? Well, first of all, it's always a good draft. It's what you make of it. It doesn't matter who you're taking the first, who you take in the seventh. It doesn't matter. Identify what fits your scheme, what fits your culture, what fits your character, you know, 100%. I thought it was really deep in D-line, especially defensive tackles, which is very unique. And I think you saw him go. But every draft's a good draft. You just got to make it a good draft.

You can say, well, there's nobody at the fifth round. I'm like, yeah, there is. A draft of many guys after the fifth round to end up being 10-year starters. You know? So, I mean, it's what you make of it. You know, and the thing about with the commanders this year, you know, just having five picks,

it kind of handcuffs you. Right. You know, but it's still okay because they made trades before and got good players and ended up in the last year having a winning season, which is awesome. You know, my first year in San Fran, in 2005, we had 14 picks. And 12 made the team. 12 made the team. They're like, you did a really good job.

I'm like, no, our roster's that bad. Right. You know, there was a lot of that last year with Quinn in terms of. major turnover from the year before. And you can get fooled by that, right? You can look at the players that you acquired via free agency and the ones that you drafted and assume after one year you did really well when in fact it was just a depleted roster going in. Well, yeah, it's depleted, but also there's still football players there. But the thing about is you can think, I never forget, my year in Seattle,

I was the senior personnel executive with John Schneider, GM. Yeah. And they gave us the D. Great. All them players won a Super Bowl. I'm like, well, I'll take a D every year. I'll go with it. Yeah, exactly.

Well, I mean, I've said this many times before. As a fan, I don't think there's anything that we, you know, embrace and obsess over that we know. the least amount than the NFL draft. And I say that, Scott, and I say that with all due respect to people like you, the people that get paid to do this get it wrong more often than they get it right. By a long shot, you know, hitting on a third or 40 percent is typically a pretty good hit if you look at it three years down the road.

But still, we love it, but it is kind of a wild card kind of, you know, exercise at times, right? 100%. I'd ever forget when I first started. I was 30, no, I'm sorry, I was 24 years old with Green Bay. And Ron Wolf, who's the first GM to go in the Hall of Fame, told me, if you're right in one out of four, you're doing a hell of a job. Right. Hell of a job. He says, and I'm like, well, no, no, I'll be right three out of four. He says, no, I'm just telling you, have the guy getting a second contract and the guy playing 10 years, that's a hit. if all of a sudden they're not getting a second contract, you know, you're trading them or you're cutting them or whatever. And I'm like, wow. You know, and at that time, I was so young, I didn't.

I'm like, I'll be better than that. And I got in the big seat. And I'm like, he's 100% accurate. Yeah, it's yet we love it and it's such a big part of kind of the NFL calendar. By the way, just that 2005, you know, first year in San Francisco was. Is that the Alex Smith year? Yep, yep. And so Frank Gore was in that class too, right?

Yes. Yeah. You know what I didn't realize? I had Clinton on the show, Clinton Portis last week, I think. And, you know, Frank being, Gore being a Miami guy. Clinton mentioned something to me, and I had no idea. Do you know where Gore ranks on the career rushing yards list in the history of the game? Number three.

Number three. I certainly would have guessed top 10 somewhere. I'm like, number three, are you sure? I'm pretty sure it's got to be Barry Sanders or it's got to be, you know, Adrian Peterson. It is Frank Gore. He's not, he was not that far away from catching Walter Payton for number two. But I don't think of, as a lifelong NFL fan, Frank Gore is a really good player. I don't put him in that Emmett Smith, Walter Payton, Barry Sanders.

You know, for me, Eric Dickerson, Earl Campbell to me, is one of the great running backs in the history of the game. I don't put him into that category, do you? Yes, 100%. If you knew what he went through, first of all, the first year he wasn't started, we had Kevin Barlow, who I end up trading to the Jets. And then Frank became the starter. but what he went through with how bad the offensive line was, you got to figure I got to San Fran,

we had the first pick for a reason. Yeah. You know, plain simple. And I've been in Seattle before that, and I'd see every game, and we'd just dominate them. And so to see what he went through with the first three or four years

of our offensive line, and Alex Smith, you know, had an okay rookie year, had a really good second year until, and then, you know, we end up winning, I think, five or six games, and we were no good. And then the third year, he got hurt in the first freaking game. Guy I drafted in Seattle, my dumb ass. But he was our entire offense. So if you're a defense, all you're doing is scheming against him.

Right. And the son of the gun would not back down. not back down. He just kept running through him and running through him and running through him. I'm like, dude, you're going to be okay? And he didn't know any better. He says, yeah, I got you covered. I'm like, gosh, dang, dude.

You had 35 carries. You know, because I had Trent Dill for playing quarterback. Oh, boy. Oh, I went through four quarterbacks out here. That was in all the second year, you're saying. It was his second year. Yes. By the way, it turned out to be his best year of his career.

Yeah. And thinking about it, it was the worst offense line here played behind ever. Wow. You know, back to Alex Smith for a moment. Again, maybe this is a repeat, and I've asked you this before, but I forget what the answer is if you've given it to me before. So was Aaron Rogers a consideration?

Yes. I'm going to say so was brilliant Edwards. Yeah. No, I had four guys that were intriguing. But I got phone calls from John Gruden, from Bruce Allen, before the draft. It's like, listen, no one's going to trade with you. I was 34 years old. Right.

And I'm like, okay, I didn't, I'm not playing. I'm not a big, during the draft, I'm not a big trade guy. If I got a player, you know, if I don't have a player, of course, I'll trade. But, yeah, there's like, no one's going to trade with you. You got to take somebody. And I never forget John Gruden told me. He says, it's not even close. Because he just came out to California.

And stopped in Utah, worked out Alex. Then he went to Cal and worked out Aaron. And he says, not even close. You take Alex Smith, 100%. Really? Yeah. I mean, everybody else passed on him. I mean, he didn't go until 24.

Do you remember what you thought, and because this is a draft that is one that was memorable for Washington, they selected Carlos Rogers from Auburn, the corner at number nine. But then Joe Gibbs, and that was Gibbs' first year back, you know, in his second run in Washington, he traded back into the first round and actually selected Jason Campbell, the quarterback from Auburn. Do you remember what you thought of Jason Campbell, had you evaluated him? Oh, yeah. No, no. I know. I studied it. I said to all those guys. He was, he, above average athlete, enough arm strength. He was just really inconsistent. And, you know, the accuracy plays into it. You know, and then one thing I've learned, me personally, is you can't teach accuracy. And the instincts for the position, you can't teach that. You either have it or you don't have it. It's unique because I'll tell you this,

when Green Bay took Aaron Rogers Okay, so I'm sitting in the draft room And my really good friend Who's passed away, Ted Thompson Yeah Called me And said,

Why don't you take him? You know? I said, If I could trade the back to four or five, I would have. I would have. He said like, should I take him?

I'm like, well, you got Brett Farrv. that's a pretty good guy but he didn't have taken him yeah and he's like okay I'm gonna take him

I'm like he I'm like listen he's he's got some personality issues that you won't like but he's got a lot of talent at that point with me and San Fran was the fact that I need that lock room strong you know

I'm building and building and building I didn't need negative energy around it Right. You know, and I think you see it now, you know, and not knocking Aaron at all. He's been the first ballot Hall of Famer. It's cool as crud.

But you can see how he plays people, you know. And I didn't want that personality in my locker room. Zero. By the way, do you think he ends up in Pittsburgh? I don't know. He's doing what I knew he would do, and the reason I didn't take him, he's playing it. And, you know, the thing about it, what you got to do, if you can, a team's talking to you, you got to let them know before the draft.

And, of course, he didn't. Right. I mean, they need a quarterback, you know. And Mason Rudolph, I love to death. As a person, he came to my house. I was in Colorado. His family came. His girlfriend came, his wife now.

And great guy. But he's a backup, plain and simple. Right. So right now, they have no quarterback. And Aaron's playing this thing on now. It's like, you got to let them know. I mean, this is a business. It's not about you.

It's about us. And all of a sudden, you make it about you, then the heck with you. And Tomlitz not going to play that game. But he knows he has nobody. Nobody. That's the fascinating thing here is that they literally have nobody. And you and everybody else can talk about Mason Rudolph, and I've heard some of the reports coming out of Pittsburgh.

The team loves him. He's phenomenal in the locker room, the whole thing. But he's a backup quarterback. 100%. 100%. If you play with him, you're going to go, if you're lucky, 6 and 11.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, and not knocking him. Right. I mean, he's trying. Right. You know, he's smart, and teammates love him. And that's who he is and what he is.

he is, but he's not, he's not going to take you to where you want to go. You know, the way you said that, it just reminds me as something, you know, when Colt McCoy was backing up Kirk during those years, there, there were certain people that really loved Colt. I mean, Jay loved Colt, you know, in terms of the person and the whole thing. And I always said, I like Colt, too, but if he starts 16 games for you, you're going six and ten. Was I right? You're 100% right.

And I love Cole, too. I also talked to him this day. He's a great, great, great, great dude. And he competed now. He just didn't have the talent level to figure out of the top, you know? Yeah. But as number two, he'll get you through two games. You know, he's probably going to win one.

He's probably going to lose one. But, yeah, if he's a full-time starter, no, you're not. Right. It's proved out. Yeah. But still, but still, everybody loved him. And you've talked to them, I guarantee you met him, you know how he is. Great guy.

Yeah. The best. I mean, you know, you're... But, I'm sorry to cut you off. No, it's right. Yeah, but that doesn't matter in the NFL. You could have bad guys, not like off-the-field bad guys, but just on the field bad guys. Then all of a sudden, you're winning games?

That's all the matters. Just make sure you take care of yourself. I want you arrested. I don't want you going anywhere or you shouldn't go, you know. But all of a sudden, I mean, you know, I drafted a lot of players that have checkered backgrounds, you know, not bad, bad checkered backgrounds, but checkered. And we win because of them.

I mean, it's football. I mean, it's a context forward. It's athletes, of course, but it's also toughness, competitiveness, you know. You know, and he's like, he's my best friend. You just knocked them out. Yeah. It's football.

Yeah. It's football. That's what I had lived and learned growing up. You know, just mentioning Jay, it just always reminds me, and I'm sure I've asked you this before. I mean, you've told me before that Jay of all the head coaches you worked with over the years was the best evaluator of talent among the head coaches. You've mentioned that to me before, but I just remember when you took Brandon Sheriff in 2015. and Jay basically said, you know, we got a guard, you know, at number.

But Sheriff turned out to be an excellent player. And by the way, when it comes to tackles and guards, is it much less of a thing do you think today than it may have been 10 years ago? Meaning, in many cases, because of interior pass rush pressure and how that's become an emphasis, quick pressure, that interior linemen are super important and maybe thought of that way more so than they were 10 years ago? 100%.

I learned from Ron Wolf again. There's five guys up front, okay, all the line. You want all five to be the best they can possibly be because you have to run inside, you have to run outside. You're going to have to pass pro. You have to do this, this, this, and this. And he told me, he said, it don't matter where you take them. You know, and when I took Brandon, you know, he played tackle

all the way through high school, all the way at Iowa. you know, and came in, and he's like, he's going to be a guard. I'm like, yeah, he's going to be an all-pro guard, and he was. Yeah. And that's the first all-pro for the Redskins in a long time. It was. A long time. Yeah, it had been since a punter back in the 90s that they had a first-team all-pro,

for real, for a sheriff. And that happened in 2019 or 2020 when he was a first-team all-party. All right, let's talk offensive linemen, and let's get to Washington's draft. And we'll do that right after. these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show with Scott McLuhan's brought to you by MyBooky. If you want to bet on the NBA playoffs, on the NHL playoffs, or look ahead to the NFL season, and MyBooky should have the week one NFL points spreads up tomorrow.

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Use my promo code, Kevin, DC, at mybooky.ag or mybooky.com. All right, we continue with Scott McLuhan, Washington. Washington's general manager back in 2015 and 2016. Scott's still intimately involved in evaluating the NFL draft. He's got a large client list of NFL teams that he consults for. So let's focus on Washington's draft and start with the player they selected at number 29 overall in the first round. Oregon tackle Josh Connerly Jr. What do you think of the pick?

I like him. you know, he's going to be a right tackle. And I think he'll play early. And he, the thing about it was, during the fall, I kind of watched him. He was kind of inconsistent at times. But then you got the Senior Bowl, like the one-on-ones and stuff, he showed me more athleticism than I thought he had. And if all fails, you can move him inside the guard.

Was there somebody else on the board at 29 when they picked that you thought was a better fit for Washington? Yeah, but I don't want to say it. But yeah, no, there are quite a few guys. But still, I wasn't, I wasn't disappointed in Connerley going there. Not at all. If you get an offensive tackle that can start day one, that's pretty cool. Real quickly on sort of a position that we thought Washington would end up drafting, they didn't among their five picks. But we focused a lot on defensive end, edge, you know, heading into the draft. How did you? you have them ranked? I'm just curious, like the first and second round guys. I'm assuming you had Carter number one. Is that true? Correct. By the way, how do you see Carter? Do you see him as sort of transcendent, you know, Micah Parsons, Bosa, T.J. Watt, Miles Garrett, or do you see him? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, he doesn't have that structure. He's going to be a three-four outside backer. Which is fine.

Don't get me wrong. And he's going to rush. That's the best thing he does. But he can also drop in coverage. If you make him a 4-3 end, they'll dominate him. They'll put the tight end over with the tackle, and it's over. He's just not a real big guy. You know, he's going to be maybe 240, maybe, if he's lucky.

I think at his pro day, he was like 232 or something. So do you think that was too high for him? No. No, because what way, what are you looking at in the draft? Who else are you going to take? You know? I mean, he'll be a good player. I just don't know if he'll be great.

And you think a guy that early, you want him to be great. You want him to be Pro Bowls. You want to be all pro. You want all that kind of stuff. So what did you think after Carter in terms of the defense events? Jelon Walker. I think he's the same thing. you know, he's more of a pass rusher, but a little bit undersized.

Samar Stewart, pretty freaking cool because I watched a big-time tackle this last fall, and he gave him all he won. Now, they both won and lost back and forth, you know, but it was pretty legit. I mean, he, Shamar Stewart, now, I don't know about the background, that kind of stuff, which apparently there might be a little bit. But he got after it now. He got after big time. What did you think of Mike Green?

You know, again, undersized. Yeah. Very productive. Stackwise in college, very productive. On the medium conference, you know, talent-wise. You know, but yeah, I just, those, It's a big man's game. And I'm telling you, these freaking

tackles are getting 6-6, 330 pounds. If you're 240, they just grab you and throw you down. It's like going against a kid. Right. So is that, I'm assuming then the kid from Boston College, as a Raku, you think he's too light?

You know what? I never was asked to watch him. I don't know him. Okay. I don't know them. Yeah. I watch the Tennessee kid. Now, it's very intriguing. Pierce. Yeah. Yep, yeah, very intriguing. All right, well, let's go back to Washington's draft.

So you liked Connerley, but you think at 29 you thought that there were other players there, but you really like the player. What did you think of their second round pick, Trey Amos, the corner from Ole Miss? I like them. I like him. I like him. I like him a good grade. I like his quickness. I like his Twitch. I like his speed. I like his instincts. you know, is he going to be a shutdown guy? Probably not, but he's going to play. Outside, more than inside?

Both, hopefully for them. Hopefully both. Okay. Jalen Lane, they picked in the fourth round, wide receiver and punt returner from Virginia Tech. What did you know about him? He reminds me of Jameson Crowder who I drafted. Right.

But he's faster. He's faster than Jameson. Yeah, no, no. He's not overly productive this last year. And it wasn't so much his fault. It was the quarterback's fault. But he can run now, and the returnability helps out tremendously. If he can do it, you know.

But I like him. I like him. Crowder, I love Crowder. I love Crowder. And this guy reminds me a Crowder, but faster, which is really cool. You know, that 2015 draft, just because I'm a Maryland guy, I was screaming Diggs. And I know he had been hurt. And there were some injuries.

And, you know, with Stefan, there were some issues, too, you know, off the field and character-wise and the whole thing. But if I could tell you the story, I would, but I can't do it on radio. Actually, I think that there were a lot of stories probably circulating about him. So was he just a guy that you didn't want to take the chance on because of the other stuff, not football stuff? Yes, I was told I could by the owner. He was sitting next to me when the scout told me about him. And the owner, the owner, once again, lobbed in his expertise, right? You should have correct.

He's like, we can't, we can't draft him. I'm like, dude, why did he say in the front of the owner? Let me game plan. Because I won a digs. He was the highest-ray guy on my board at the time. He really was. Wow. Yep.

I don't think you've ever told me that. So in the four, you're saying in the fourth round when you took Crowder, he was the highest rated player on your board? No, no. Diggs was the highest. But I couldn't take Diggs. Right. That's what I'm saying.

But I'm saying was that in the fourth round when you got to the Crowder pick? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And Jay wanted no part of them. Zero. Oh, man. Believe in me, man.

This guy's going to be a good player. Did you like Tyler Lockett in that draft? Yes. I'm so old now that I scowled his father. I like him too. I think Lockett actually went, though, before Crowder. So I don't think you had a chance to take Lockett, but you obviously had a chance to take Diggs.

All right. So you like Jalen Lane, you cop them to Jameson Crowder, a faster version. What do you know about their sixth round pick, linebacker slash whatever? He might be a safety. Kane Madrano from UCLA. Zero. Never watched them. You didn't.

Well, can I think if you'd watched him, I think you would have liked him. Because you know one of your sayings that we repeat quite often, and have over the years. In watching just his highlight reel, he's a football player. As Scott McLuhan would say, he's a football player. He's just got like that incredible anticipation, you know, ability where he kind of sniffs everything out a little bit early, and because he's a playmaker. All right, so we'll move on from him. Do you know anything about their seventh round pick? They're running back. Zero. Okay. That's fine. But with that, I want to ask you about another position that I thought they would take, and I was hoping

they would take before the seventh round. Did you like the running backs in this draft? Did you consider that position to be as deep as many others did? Not up high, but mid-round and late, yes. Okay, so did you view Gentie as worthy of top 10? No. Did you view any of the backs worthy of first round. Gentie I did later on. Right. I wasn't, you know, everybody's like, he's like Barry Sanders. I'm like, no, I've seen Barry Sanders' life.

In the NFL, we couldn't tackle him. Reggie White couldn't tackle him. Right. He's not very Sanders. But they have talent, and they'll play. Don't get me wrong. And I'm sure they'll start early and do all that stuff. But, yeah, I think, you know,

Who was your comp for Genty? Did you have one? Probably Emmett. Emmett, interesting. Yeah, he's got a little more explosion. But the thing in Amit was, you know, he ran between the tackles. Yeah. And he had great contact balance that hit him on the hip.

And it's like Frank, you know, and then they would stay on their feet. And then the guy hit him on the other side of the hip and he'd stay on their feet. You know, and Emmett, don't give me wrong, but he had, for all pros blocking for him. Right. He had a pro bowl tied in.

He had, you know, a Hall of Fame quarterback. Frank always tells me. He's like, if I could have ran behind Dallas's offensive line, I'd think how many yards I would have had.

I'm like, I hear you, but I'm sorry. I tried to fix as much as I could, but I couldn't. I mean, I did eventually, but it was like,

yeah. You know, what you just brought up, I've talked about a little bit, usually as it relates to basketball, in that you've got so many guys that can just shoot it, period, you know, can shoot the three. But it's about sort of timing, getting picked by the team or getting picked up by the team. And, you know, there are a lot of guys that could have been Steve Kerr or John Paxson during the Michael Jordan years, you know, in terms of spotting up and shooting jump shots, shooting, you know, big shots from, from. beyond the arc with Jordan as the primary player that the defense was focused on. Sometimes I think of running back in the same way.

That there are a lot of guys that can do it. It's just a matter of did they end up landing in the right place at the right time? What do you think about that? No, I agree with that. But that's also receivers. That's also quarterbacks. You know, there's times where you see, you know, these quarterbacks hit it. You know, and they got drafted 28th in the first round.

whatever. Right. But it means they're going to go to a good team. You know, you try to have to first overall. Everybody's like, hey,

he's our savior. Yeah. Well, there's a reason you pick him first. You got a lot of other stuff to fix before he's any good. You know, and I have that in San Fran.

I was like, okay, and I told him, I said, listen, the first year, you can't play Alex. And Mike McCarthy was the OC

and Mike no one was the head coach. They're like, no, we're not going to play him. I said, he haven't called, a huddle in high school or in college. Everything came from the sideline.

Everything. And I never forget. We worked them out, and we flew in there two or three times, into Utah. He saw a leg to work him out. You know, and just to get them known better. And he was solid. And family's solid.

Everybody's solid. But Mike's like, he has no clue how to play quarterback. Right. He never called it. He never called. the huddle. So I never forget, we've got to rookie minicamp, and I'm out there,

and Mike starts yelling at him. I'm like, way, we just started. He's like, dude, you've got to speak up. You've got to call the huddle. You're going to be in front of 70,000 people. Yeah. You know, you got to show that you have it, you know, which, of course, he learned going through it.

But he had no idea. He's like, what's a huddle? Yeah. We go to the line of scrimand like to the sideline. I get to play. I yell it out, and then we throw the ball. But, I mean, I'm assuming that in that moment

that you got a lot from, it would have been Urban Meyer, right? Urban Meyer was the coach at Utah then. That you got a lot from Urban. By the way, did you realize, because that, he was at, you know, Bowling Green, I think it was prior to Utah and then obviously ended up in Florida. Did you realize what kind of a quarterback offensive guru.

He was, because that's 2004, 2004, 2005. You know, he wasn't really Urban Meyer yet. He was getting there, though. He was getting there. I never forget. I walked in, and at that time, you know, I was the GM, and I sat down with him, and he brought the offense coordinator in, who's the guy that went to Florida in one and got fired now with on TV.

Yep. And they're like, you know, they're like, he's got a long way to go as a quarterback, but he's highly intelligent. He'll work his tail off. He'll be a great teammate. And he says, and the thing about it is, we want the Fiesta Bowl in one by 40 points because of him, you know. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, it was all positive. But, yeah, Urban was just getting to be big time.

Yeah. But he was, yeah. But now they didn't question his talent level. They just said he's really young. Right. He's really immature as a quarterback. And he was. He was 20 years old.

The guy graduated college in three years. Yeah, always bright. Back to running backs for a moment. You said that you liked the middle part of the draft for the running backs. Were there running backs that you were absolutely in love with? You know, in the middle portion of the draft? Not really. You know, I thought there'd be 53 guys, you know,

me to make the team, you know. But no, that's why Eric kept saying it's such a deep draft. I said, well, it's got depth, but who are the players? Right. Which of the tight ends did you like more, Loveland or warned? Warren, hands down. Yeah. I was surprised that Loveland went first.

By the way, Warren can throw the football better than any tight end that's ever played. But he played four different positions. Yeah. He played tight end, in line, tight end. He played hback. He played wide receiver. Five positions. He played running back.

And he played quarterback. That's crazy. You do that stuff. You do that stuff in D-1? You got something special about you. I'm not done with you yet. if you've got a few more minutes, because I do want to get your opinion about the quarterbacks in this draft and, you know, why Shadur Sanders ended up falling all the way

to the fifth round. We'll do more with Scott McLuhan right after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you get an opportunity and you've got 30 to 60 seconds to rate the show on Apple and Spotify and maybe write a quick review on Apple, it's a big help for us following this show. hit the plus button, the follow button on Apple and Spotify helps us as well. All right, just a little bit more with the former general manager of the Washington Redskins back in 2015, 2016, Scott McLuhan. I wanted to find out what you thought of the quarterbacks. We'll start with the number one overall pick in the draft Cam Ward.

Did you like him? Not as much as Sanders. Really? all right, so let's go right to that. Tell me about Shadur Sanders. I think when it's all sudden done, he's going to be the best quarterback draft in this draft when his career is done.

I'm not knocking war. I did award at Washington State. I saw him play live versus Colorado State. I saw Shadir play live against Nebraska. Not even close. And I don't know what went on, and I don't want to speculate, but

Cleveland got a hell of. of a pick in the fifth round. Hell of a pick. All right. So here's the next part of this question. Did you see Shadur as a first round talent, first round grade? Yes. You did? Yes. Okay. Yep. I saw him live. I stood next to him. I saw him

jumped Travis Hunter's ass on the sideline during the game. Point right in his face. And I'm like, wow. Kind of cool. And then I saw him the whole game I was on the sideline. I'd watch him. And he'd go over to the old lineman. I'm talking them. They go to the wide receivers. Talk to them. It was cool. Really cool. I get Dion, Dion. I get it. And I don't know Dion. I never even met him. But I think the kid got lost some rounds because of that, because of what comes with it.

That's... I don't agree with. That's fair. But do you think he lost first round, you know, top kind of a pick because of Dion or because teams evaluated him differently than you did? Well, the thing about is he went to the East West Shrine. Dion told McGego to the Senior Bowl. So he went to East West Shrine, just to interview, not to practice, anything like that. It goes to the combine. There's nothing.

Interview, that's it. And so now you get red flags popping up. like, okay, what's going on here? You know, and it's, you know, I think the best thing for Shadir was the fact that he won the fifth. You know, if you won the first, I think it could have been, you know, a catastrophe from the standpoint of just the media, expecting to start right away and all that.

Heck, Cleveland took another quarterback in the third round, Dylan Gabriel. Yeah. I mean, so they passed on them. Right. He got to the point in the fifth. They're like, he's the highest-rate guy on the board, he's a quarterback.

We've got to take him. And they did. But I think, yeah, it's disappointing for the kid, but when it's all said and done, it might be the best thing. Were there any other future starters, in your opinion,

in the drafted quarterback? Well, there's going to be. I know that, but was there. one that you have a strong feeling about, this guy's going to be a starting quarterback in the league? Well, yeah, they came out this year or coming out next year? No, this year. This year. Nobody else? Well, yeah, I mean, I like the camel kid a lot.

Wait, who? Camel, Ohio State. Oh, oh, yeah, I'm sorry, you're talking about Will Howard. Howard, I'm sorry, Howard. Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, Will Howard. You liked him a lot. You know what?

I liked what he did at K-State. Yeah. And then I liked the fact that he won a national championship. He had a really bad game versus Michigan, but then bounced back in the playoffs and rocking and rolling. All right, a couple more with Scott McLuhan. Was there a player in this draft, not a projected first rounder? Shadur, it certainly sounds like

would be at the top of your list. But after Shadur, is there a player that you just fell in love with that got picked after the first round that you're convinced a team absolutely stole? Will Johnson, Corner, Michigan.

Now, he was hurt most of the year, not most of your half the year. I think he's Patrick Chattain. Wow. I think, yeah, and I love Patrick. And he's been, you know, he won the, defense player of the year. So I think, I think Will Johnson's going to be

legit, legit. All right. Last one, and I appreciate this as always. So what did you think of Jaden Daniels' rookie year? I'm so happy for him. Because, you know, like I told you, I met the family. I've done a lot of work on him the last three years before he came out. And, you know, I know Herm Edwards pretty well, and he talked about him, they're just glowing. You know, of course, he transferred to LSU.

But just he's a real guy, you know, and I think if you get to the point, it's like Brett Farrv, okay? You know, everybody could talk about it, and whatever, drinking, doing drugs, whatever they talked about. but when it came Sunday they all loved them because they knew he gave them a chance to win no matter what and I think

you know knock on wood you know I'm going in the second year and they always stayed a sophomore slump which I don't agree with if you're a football player you're a football player but I think with his personality and his character you know

of course the talent's there we saw the whole thing but I think he's got a chance to be a franchise quarterback for a while. Thank you for doing this. Always appreciate it. It's great getting your perspective. I'm so glad you're busy and you're working with so many teams and hopefully the drafts that you were involved in turn out really well.

I wish you the best with that. And I will talk to you again, you know, sometime down the road, hopefully no worse than this time next year. Yeah, no, any time partners, you know that. Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. Yep. I'll talk to you, buddy.

Scott McLuhan, everybody. Always good to catch up with Scott. How about his take on Shadur Sanders? Very Mel Kuiper-esque. Remember Kuiper during draft weekend telling every team that needed a quarterback that passed on him how wrong they were going to look down the road. Time will tell on these things for sure. All right. That is it for today's show.

Back tomorrow with the official schedule. in front of us to discuss. Tommy will be with me.