The Kevin Sheehan Show - Scott Brooks and Mike Wilbon

Episode Date: October 17, 2018

The NBA season has started, and Kevin welcomes Scott Brooks on the show before the Wizards open against the Heat. After the conversation with the coach, Kevin has some "Whadya Got?" which includes Kristi Toliver becoming a coach on the Wizards, Nathan Peterman, Boston TV sports ratings and more. Then Mike Wilbon joins the show. They discuss everything from the baseball playoffs to what he's seeing in the NFL season to the start of the NBA season. The show wraps up with NFL Buy or Sell and a talk about the start of the season for Maryland basketball. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. I'm here. Aaron's here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them, I told you to call. Wizards coach Scott Brooks will be on the show today. Mike Wilbon will be on the show today as well. It's Dallas Week. I'm starting to feel it. I am. It just feels like we're building towards a big, early season, Dallas-Washington matchup with meaning that we really haven't had a lot of in recent years. I'll get to it. I think this game's got some juice to it all of the sudden, and I will get to that in a few minutes. I did not, Aaron, stay up last night to watch the entire Dodgers-Brewers epic game for last night. I did not. By the way, while it was on, I was watching more of the Warriors Thunder when I was awake last night. But apparently, and it's a shame because I love postseason baseball.

I love it. I think the tension of a close postseason baseball game, eighth, ninth, tenth, extra innings, pitch by pitch, is almost unmatched in sports. As a fan, if you're a fan of one of those two, teams, is there a worse feeling than a close playoff game, a more tense feeling? It is. It's so tense. It's so exciting. I'm actually very excited to watch an afternoon game today. Like you used to get way back in the day, you'd get postseason baseball in October in the afternoon. And we've gotten some of those games here over the last few weeks, but this is a game five in the NLCS. It's Clayton Kershaw. It's Wade Miley. It's Dodger Stadium.

they still had tickets left for that. Why? Because it's a 2 o'clock start in L.A. But in fact, if you read some of the stuff about this series early on, the Dodger players were upset with the crowd and the enthusiasm level in game three. Well, they brought it apparently last night. And you had also one of those games in which not only was it an epic five-hour-plus game that ended at around 2.30 a.m. this morning, East Coast time. But you had one of those games where you had a very, very debatable strategy decision in the 13th by Brewer's manager, Craig Counsel.

Cody Bellinger knocked in Mani Machado for the game winner in the bottom of the 13th. So the series is all square at two games apiece, and again, game five today. But in the 13th, all right, after Machado hit a single to left field and then went to second on a wild pitch. You had first base open with Yismani Grandel on deck. This guy has struggled mightily here. He got booed the other day at Dodger Stadium. And Bellinger was at the plate. Now, Bellinger hasn't been great either. He was surprised that they pitched to him. He said, I didn't think they were going to throw me a strike. And then I noticed they're attacking me. So I just tried to put the ball on play, hopefully find a hole.

He did. Machado came around, beat the throw from Yelich, and the Dodgers win two to one. Craig Counsel said the following, quote, I thought it was worth the risk of trying to pitch to Bellinger. And if that at bat goes to Grandel, we'll walk him to get to the pitcher. Well, they should have walked Bellinger to get to Grandel. Right. And then you had a guy that was massively, massively struggling in the playoffs, all right, to make even contact at this point.

And that's one of those things. I love baseball strategy. I love it in the postseason. But you had a guy in Grundel that last night had one at bat, okay, and he struck out. He may have walked in another at bat actually as well. But in the postseason, so far, he is three for 23. It's not good. Three for 23 with 11 strikeouts in the postseason.

And counsel decided he'd pitch to Bellinger, and he paid the price for that. Great game, apparently. I'm not one of those guys that goes to bed early. Even when I was doing the early morning show, I would stay up and watch a lot of NBA playoff games in particular. until very late. But last night, I did not stay up until 2.30 in the morning. I fell asleep. The other game, by the way, in the ALCS, Jackie Bradley Jr., Grand Slam in the 8th, put that one away, and now Boston has a 2-1 series lead. All right, to the Redskins. They are in sole possession of

first place. Despite the up and down nature of their first five games, they are three and two. They are in first place in the NFC East. And now you get a game against your arch rival. It's the first division game of the year, too. You're waiting until week six, which is unusual, to go six, you know, five games into the season without playing a division game, but it's the way the schedule broke this year with the Redskins playing, you know, Arizona, Indie, Green Bay, New Orleans, and Carolina before they get, you know, in mid-October to their first division game. Real quickly, weather report for Sunday, chilly and windy. Chili and windy on Sunday, all right, 50s, temperatures, you know, typical, great football weather for October, mid-fifference, and

50s temperatures, but apparently windy, like 15 to 20 mile an hour wins are in the forecast for Sunday. That could impact the way the game is played. Both teams would like to run the football. You know, how long has it been since we've said that about the Redskins? But they would like to run the football, so perhaps there's an advantage there, although I think Dallas as a defense right now is exceptional. And I think the Redskins have always had a difficult time running the football against Dallas anyway. We'll have plenty of time to dissect and analyze and preview the game on Sunday. But the Cowboys, you know, the Redskins are coming off their most impressive win of the year.

The Cowboys are coming off their most impressive win of the year. Perhaps the most impressive win by any team in the NFCE so far this year, a 40 to 7 woodshed beating of Jacksonville to get the Cowboys to 500. They could easily be four and two. The Houston game the week before was a 1916 overtime loss. that was very winnable. They played three pretty good games in a row. A win over Detroit at home, walk-off field goal, went over the Lions,

that loss in Houston, and then Sunday, an annihilation of what was thought to be one of the two best defensive teams in the NFL. So Sunday at FedEx, you get a 425 late CBS doubleheader. The game is on CBS. That's a throwback for many of us to the days when the rivalry really mattered and was really the best in the sport. CBS, Madden, Summerall, RFK, Redskins Cowboys, 4 o'clock window.

Now you get CBS in these Cross Flex games, which started a few years ago, where CBS can pick a couple of NFC matchups, and Fox can pick a couple of AFC matchups, and Nancy Romo on the call. All right, for Sunday anyway, Sunday afternoon, one of the games of the day, even though you look at both teams and you're not blown away by either team in terms of an NFC contender. But it's Redskins Cowboys. It feels all of the sudden like, you know, a big game. It is a big game. Look, this isn't going to be a season defining game for either team. Could be. Look, if the Redskins win and get to four and two,

it's not season defining. You're not beating. Seasoning. Seasoning. Season pivoting maybe? I don't know if it is even that in the first of six division games when you've got five division games left. I think the Carolina game in many ways was more important, even though it wasn't a division game, but in context, if they had lost that game or played poorly even worse and lost that game. Because of what happened Monday night New Orleans and because of what typically happens with this franchise, I think we could have been in that, you know, starting to unravel mode. But by beating Carolina and getting to three and two and having sole possession of the lead with the Cowboys coming to town, this game Sunday actually doesn't feel as important as last Sunday,

even though it typically in years past, division game, game against the Cowboys at home is a massive game. To me, it's just not going to totally lend some level of legitimacy to the winner. That's how I feel right now. I mean, why would it? Right now, these are two average teams that are inconsistent, if not fragile, at times. But there is some blood in this one, all right? The Cowboys have won four in a row against the Redskins, five of the last six. And many of the Redskins on this team right now have experienced most, if not all, of those losses. The last game the Redskins won in this rivalry was the finale in 2015 when they had nothing to play for

because they had already clinched the division, and the Cowboys had nothing to play for. A lot more coming up on this game, which we will get to later on in this show and clearly tomorrow and Friday. But it does for me. I'm starting to get pumped up for a Redskins Cowboys late Sunday afternoon game.

Neither team has a losing record, which doesn't happen very often recently in this matchup. The Redskins have really had their asses kicked by the Cowboys here, four straight five out of the last six. They can take, I wouldn't call it a commanding division lead, but to get to four and two with a game the following week in the Meadowlands against the fading and struggling giants to get to five and two. This is, you know, pivotal.

I don't know if it's pivotal. I don't know if it's season defining, but it would be a huge get. A huge get for a team that went one in five in the division last year to get the first one. and when you walk away from it, you're in possession of first place again in the division. And now, by the way, the division looking less like a division

that's going to be one with a seven and nine record, yeah, it would be nice. Just to get the back-to-back wins. Just to get the back-to-back wins would be great too. That's a great point because it hasn't happened this year. Harley and Aaron from Windonation are fans and believers in this podcast. And me, I want you to trust in them. because if you need new windows, like I've done in the past, calling Wind Donation is the right move.

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enjoying all the benefits of new windows today. WindowNation.com or 86690 Nation. That's windonation.com or 86690 Nation. All right, let's bring in Wizards head coach Scott Brooks to the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast. It's always good to talk to the head coach. I love this basketball team and I've always enjoyed the conversations that I've had with you when I was at 980. And, you know, this is an interesting year.

I think it is from a fan standpoint. I'm going to start with John and Brad coach. It's a big year in that the discussion about them in the past has been, you know, they're not yet in their prime. They're still young. They're still learning. They're still growing. Now, to me, as a fan, I'm like, okay, well, John's clearly in his prime.

Brad, you know, age-wise may not be, but, you know, sort of experience-wise is now there. they're not as young age-wise. They're wise beyond their years or they should be. They're full-grown, and it's sort of time to win. It's time to produce consistently. It's time to win. Do you agree with that assessment of the two of them? I absolutely 100% agree. I think they are in their prime. I mean, like you said, Brad may be a better year or two, but he's basically in his prime and the start of it. And it's exciting. I think they're both, they've both experienced enough, you know, enough success and enough, you know, some tough times that now it's time to, you know, learn from all those experiences

and bring the team with you going forward. I think the thing that I love about, I mean, I'm going into, you know, three years ago, and I took the opportunity to get the job, I heard all the things, hey, these guys might not get along and this and that, but they've been pretty connected at the hip. And I appreciate that because you need your best players to be connected to one another because that really solidifies what you do as a team. Our team needs to see that. And they've been playing really well in training camp.

What's your biggest ask of them going into this season? What have you, if you have and maybe you haven't, what are you looking for them to, let's just say, improve on? You know, I don't, it's really not, nothing offensively. I mean, they're really talented. I mean, they can, if they really want them to be selfish, they can put up 25 to 30 points every single night, easy. I mean, that's how talented they are. I think the thing that I tell them, I say, continue to be great leaders.

What really good players, there's a lot of them in the sleep. Special players make their teammates better. And if you guys want to be special players, you've got to continue. you to make your teammates better. And that's just not only giving them passes and making them feel good on the court, but it's help them grow, help them become better players off the court also as well.

Teach them, watch them with them. Grow with them. And I think that's what my biggest ask for them is continue to be better leaders. And then on the defensive end, we have to be a consistent defensive team. We can't play defense from, you know, whenever we want to do it

or whenever the shots are followed. It has to be who we are, how we play, and those two guys can be really good defensive players. They could be the best backcourt defensively in the league. You know, one of my, you mentioned one of them. The other pet peeve of mine when it comes to both of them is that I think over the years, there have been too many what I would call sort of casual possessions where, you know, there's sort of casual ball handling, casual passing. It leads to turnovers and runouts on the other end.

And at times to me, unforced, you know, turnovers, wasted possessions. You and I have talked about that in the past. I would love to see more of, you know, the maturity of, you know what, this is a 48-minute game. And in the second quarter, throwing the ball away three times or getting it ripped from me because I turned my back on the defense, that's got to stop. I mean, I think you know what I'm talking about.

Yeah, exactly. You know, John, it's real, I mean, he's a special, special player. I mean, the guy, I watch him every day, I'm like, amazed at what he's able to do. And at times, and I've told him this, at times he gets a little bored offensively because it becomes too easy, and he does these real careless, lazy turnovers, and that's not who he is. He's not a lazy player. but he just gets a little bored with it. And I said, that's not, no, keep hitting singles. Those are fun. That's what makes you different from everybody else.

You can keep hitting singles and all of a sudden you get a home run. And then, because most guys can't do that. Most guys got a, this is how I play. I got to play a basic brand of basketball. He doesn't have to do that. But when he keeps it solid and keeps it simple throughout the game, we're hard to beat. All right. So first of all, update us on.

Dwight Howard. What is his situation health-wise? Well, he missed most of training camp and just from his lower back, soaredness, but it has improved the last, you know, three or four days, each practice the last two days, all practice in its entirety. And practice pretty good. Surprisingly, you know, missing, you know, two or three weeks to come out and compete and practice well, it was good to see. In the next, The next morning, I always look at players after they, when they come back from an injury, the next day. And each day now, he's felt pretty good. So yesterday we really had a pretty tough one.

It's going to, I'm really anxious to see how he feels today going into today's practice. But you know what? He's going to help us. You know, whether he plays the first game or not, he's going to help us, and it's going to be soon. What's your gut on whether or not he'll play in the opener tomorrow night against Miami? You know what? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I hope.

But I'm not going to have him out there knowing that he's not ready to play. Because it is a long season. We've got some pretty good players. And we can play small. Yon has been really good. This is his first summer. He hasn't nursed an injury or surgery. So that's good for him.

But we got some versatility of our team. So we're not going to rush the white back. When he's ready, he will be ready. It's a matter of, you know, it's probably a matter of, you know, it's probably a matter of days. I think anybody that's watched this team, even going back to when Randy was coaching it with John and Brad, that you're at your best when you're in transition,

you're at your best when you're playing up-tempo. Will the addition of a true defensive stopper, will that enhance your ability to run more often off of rebounds, off of block shots, off of turnovers, because Dwight's sitting there in the lane, getting ready to block a shot and somebody throws it back out front. Is that an emphasis? And was that a big part of why Dwight Howard was brought in here?

Absolutely. That's his strength. I mean, if he plays for the next five years, he might end up being like the third all-time leading rebounder in the history of the game. I think like Wolf Chamberlain and Bill Russell might be one and two. So he has that ability that's something we haven't had. We haven't really been a great rebounding team.

We've been pretty, we've got times, you know, struggled defensively, but there's been a lot of games that we've made teams miss, but we couldn't secure the rebound. And that's their strength. His strength is protecting the pain. His strength is not only blocking shots, but altering. And not only altering, but people don't even come in. So he's a big body, is athletic, and he still has a lot of good years left in them.

So we want to play fast. I mean, there's no surprise. We've got one of the fastest point guards in the history of the game. This guy's a jet. And then we got some really good playmakers alongside of them now. And so we want to be able to get stops and get out in transition and score and make threes and attack the basket. And Dwight will help us do that.

I don't want to get into the whole rotation. We're going to see that here to start with. But when you go small, and I'm talking about super small, so no Dwight and maybe even no Keith, is there a lineup that has Wall, Brad, Otto, you know, Jeff Green and Troy Brown Jr. or Kelly Ubray on the floor? Is there a lineup that could be that small? I think so. The thing about a couple of guys that you're going to just great and just auto. Their versatility and the way the new NBA is playing where you can play smaller guys at the four, smaller guys at the five, those guys have the IQ that can fit in and learn all the positions. So you don't really have to,

change much because, you know, Otto can play two, three, or four. Jeff can play two, three, four, or five. He has that type of IQ. And the way the league is playing, we're hard to stop if we can gain some confidence with that group. We've got a lot of playmakers, a lot of guys that can handle, a lot of guys that can make plays for themselves or their team. So we definitely will see that it's going to be, everything's work in progress.

It's going to be fluid, the X number of games, but you know what? You might see it tomorrow night. If Dwight's not playing, sure. Give me somebody that you think will surprise the fans because that person's gotten better and you believe will produce more than what we're thinking right now. Well, I mean, I love the way Brad's playing. I know the guy's an All-Star. He's played at a high level for a lot of years, but he's playing different this year, just a little more confident in his ability to help his team. And that's what I love about him. He was not a great ball handler a two years ago. I'm like, oh, man, how are we going to get this guy playing pick and roll? But I tell you what, he's put a lot of time into it, a lot of time during the season, a lot of time in the summer.

And he really spent a lot of time getting better to help his teammates get better. Because his ability to shoot can really put pressure on the defense of that. You have to guard him way beyond the three-point line. and now his ability to attack and finish at the rim or kick out to wide open threes or dump off passes to dig. I think it's going to help us. I mean, it's hard to say that he's going to be a big improvement because he's so good already, but I just see a little bit of different than his game that I really like. I know you guys typically don't pay a lot of attention to this kind of stuff.

I mean, fans get into all of the season preview stuff and the predictions stuff. But, you know, pretty much across the board, the Wizards, are I think a little bit under the radar. Picked, you know, fifth, sixth, somewhere in that range in the east. What do you think your expectations should be right now, given the East landscape with the Sixers sort of coming back as a young team last year that performed the Raptors with the big change, adding Kauai Leonard, etc. Where do you fit in?

Well, I mean, the East is good. I mean, like you said, those three teams, Boston, Philadelphia, Toronto, Milwaukee, He's gotten better. Indiana had a great finish last year. So there's a lot of good teams, and some of the other teams like Charlotte's going to be much better this year. I want us to be a consistent competitive team, and if we do that, I feel pretty comfortable with what we have.

We can compete against any team. I don't think it's kind of nice that we're under the radar because now it's time to just go out there and play it. You know what? If they don't feel that we're good enough, that's our job to prove them wrong by, competing every night. We've got enough talent. We've got to continue to hopefully, you know, we have a good healthy year. Last year, John missed in 41 games. It hurt us, but it helped us also

in a way. It gave Thomas Atterowski a lot of experience and gave him a swagger that he knows that he belongs in this league. And now hopefully he can take that as a backup point guard and give us those same type of energy and good minutes that, you know, maybe lesser of a role for playing, you know, 14 or 15 minutes a game. Coach, thanks so much. I always appreciate the time. Good luck. Excited about tomorrow night and hopefully we can do this again soon. Absolutely, Kevin. Thank you, man. Best of luck to you. Always good to catch up with Wizards coach Scott Brooks. I am looking forward to their season. I'm not, and I said this at the time, I'm not overly optimistic about the Dwight Howard thing. I just think that he has been more of a problem than. sort of more of a liability than an asset on the teams that he's been on over the years.

I'm hopeful. One of the things I do know is I know that if the Wizards can get more stops and get more turnovers forced defensively, more blocked shots defensively, that it will allow them to do what they do best, which is play up-tempo and get out on the break, because that's really where they thrive. They've not been a consistently good half-court basketball team over the years. And that goes back to Randy's teams, too. When they're out on the break with Wall and Beal and Porter getting to a corner and even a guy like Keith trailing and now you'll have, you know, green on the floor and potentially a guy like Austin Rivers on the floor. And I think Troy Brown personally is going to be a player that sort of

develops in his career into a player that was, is reminiscent of one of my favorite Wizards players, which was Trevor Arisa. I think there was a mistake letting him go when they thought they had a shot at clearing the books for Durant. Troy Brown can defend. He has very, very good sort of anticipatory defensive talent. Like he sees things a split second before they happen. I think he will, I don't know if it's this year. I hope he cracks the rotation and we can see what he's got. I think his shooting stroke, despite his poor shooting percentages, I think his shooting stroke is fine. I think he will be a guy that will end up being a This could be the last year for Ubre.

I love his competitiveness. I do. I also wonder about his maturity, but I've wondered that about John and Bradley Beale as well. Look, if they're healthy and you get Wall for 82, and you get Beale for 82, and you get Porter for 82, and you get Dwight Howard being a, you know, more asset than liability. And I'm talking about the off-the-court locker room stuff as much. is on the court. We know what he will provide on the court. He'll provide you with a defensive presence

that they have not had here over the years. I think they will miss Martian Gortot more than most of you believe they will miss Martian Gortat. I hope Dwight Howard becomes a willing, sacrificing player offensively with solid pick and rolls, not worrying about his touches on the paint, you know, down on the block. He's a rim-protecting. He's a rim-protecting. He's a defensive presence, and he will start most of their offense with rebounds, high-volume rebounder, so is Gortot, by the way. And the Wizards hopefully will get out most nights be able to run, and that's when they're good. You know, Otto Porter and Bradley Beale shoot threes really well off of fast break opportunities in up-tempo situations. You know, the analytics

people out there that like to talk about, you got to shoot more threes, you got to shoot more threes. Well, you don't want a guy like Bradley Beal in a half-court set where he takes a ball off off a screen, off a flare screen, comes around that screen behind the arc, and he gives, and the defender jumps out

and he's able to give a pump fake and go by that defender or back that defender. It's not an automatic, shoot the three, all right? Shooters in rhythm. They have to be in rhythm. And if somebody's right there as he comes off a screen and he needs,

that one hard dribble to get into his rhythm. Sometimes that's not going to be behind the three point arc. That stuff never bothers me. That stuff is espoused by people who don't know and have never played anything resembling this sport. All right. Bradley Beale is an in rhythm player. When he catches and shoots, those are the threes he makes. A lot of those are in transition. A lot of those are John creating and finding him deep in a corner or a kickout off of a drive. But you can't ask him to force up threes when it's not an in-rhythm shot for him. Bradley Beale is not a 27-foot three-point shooter like Steph Curry is. Remember, when Steph Curry catches the ball 27, 28 feet deep,

and he's already five feet behind the three-point arc. And he gives a pump fake and somebody goes flying by him. That hard dribble or two that gets him squared up and gets him into rhythm, he's still behind the arc. Beal, not so much. He gives that hard head fake. Defender flies by. He needs that dribble to get squared.

And that dribble sometimes takes him inside that three-point line. I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with Ferris Chrysler-Dodge Jeep in Fairfax. Ferris should be on your list if you're considering something new. Go to ferrishcars.com right now. If not now, after you listen to the rest of what I'm going to tell you about Ferris right now. Because you can hit pause on this podcast and go to Ferris Cars. com.

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I don't do this as a regular thing, but I want to do a little what do you got today, Aaron. What Do you got? Yeah, the What Do You Got thing was a Cooley and Kevin thing for a few years. So every once in a while I'll do it here. Not every day. Aaron's got something, too. He was at Maryland's Media Day yesterday. Barry's Verluga in the Post wrote about Maryland's Media Day and Maryland's basketball team this year.

I'm actually excited about Maryland's basketball team. He had an interesting interaction with the Turgent during the press conference. Well, we'll get to that in a moment. I want to start with this because I have several Whatty Got's got. Who the hell was doing SportsCenter The NBA highlights this morning? I don't need anybody except for Tim Legler on opening night on SportsCenter.

Now, I typically watch the best show on ESPN, one of the two best shows on ESPN, which is Scott SportsCenter at midnight or whenever it starts because sometimes it starts at 1130, sometimes it starts at midnight, sometimes it starts a little bit after midnight, That's the smartest, funniest, most thoughtful show. And by the way, if you didn't know this, he is killing it.

That Scott Van Pelt Sports Center is like beating Kimmel. And, you know, he's beating guys that are doing late night network shows that start at 1130. In key demos, too, young males 25 to 34 and he's just killing it. It's great. But, you know, on opening NBA night, I need Tim Legler in the studio. I don't know who the two women were that were talking about the NBA last night. And I'm going to give them chances. I'm not saying that they weren't good at it.

I just need Legler there. Just like the NHL on opening night, you get Barry Melrose. They're not bringing in somebody you've never seen before to do the analysis. Legler's the best. I'm going to get Legler on the show soon. He was at the Redskins game Sunday. He texted me because he was looking. for me doing my pregame show on the stage. He said, where are you? I said, oh yeah, I forgot to tell you.

I'm not at 980 anymore, but we'll catch up. I need you on the podcast. And he said, whenever you need me. So we'll get him on maybe next week. We'll watch a few of these NBA games and then get them on. The Wizards announced, God, I forgot to ask Scott Brooks about this. My fault. The Wizards announced that they have hired Christy Tolliver to join the staff as an assistant coach for player development. You know, I don't watch a lot of women's basketball. I will tell you that, but I do watch Maryland's women when they get deep into the season and they're playing big tournament games.

And Christy Tolliver, Aaron, was a great terp. Oh, awesome. Was a great terp. Crazily, one of the better moments of my freshman year was her hitting that shot. Yeah, I mean, a hell of a player at Maryland. And I guess she's been a hell of a player in the WNBA, too. Average 13 points last year. Don't know much about the WNBA.

Don't watch a lot of it, but she is an active WNBA player that is also going to serve as the teams, as one of the assistant coaches on Scott Brooks's staff. That's on me that I did not ask him about Christy Tolliver. I just completely blanked on that. So we'll ask him next time we have him on. But she becomes the third female to sit on a bench in NBA history. Another, what do you got? Did you see that Josh Allen, the Bill's rookie quarterback, had a serious knee.

injury. He could be out for a while, and the bills who play the Colts Sunday are actually thinking about starting Nathan Peterman again. It's unbelievable. I can't. I mean, how is that possible? Sean McDermott said they're working through the solution to know Josh Allen, who, by the way, was starting to play pretty well. They have a very good defense, Buffalo does. Very good defense. It's going to be Nathan Peterman or like 45-year-old Derek Anderson, who's been in the league forever. This report from ESPN's Diana Rusini, see how I attributed this report to Diana Rusini, she tweeted out, I'm also told the bills haven't decided who will start a quarterback. There is a feeling in the organization that veteran quarterback Derek Anderson has to start,

or Sean McDermott is in danger of losing the locker room after Nathan Peterman's latest performance. He threw a pick, two of them, in the final couple of minutes, including the backbreaking pick six and their loss at Houston. Peterman has 82 career pass attempts, and in those 82 career pass attempts, he's thrown 10 interceptions, 10 out of 82. That's 11.4%. For veterans in the locker room,

I can understand why they don't want Nathan Peterman starting the game. It's shocking to me that he continues to start games or that Sean McDermott or somebody in that organization still thinks he can play. And maybe it'll be one of those incredible redemption stories. He comes in. They start him. He beats the Colts. He gets on a role and resurrects whatever career he had. But yeah, they better be careful about starting old Nate Peterman. It's unbelievable. They can't find anyone better. Unbelievable.

Another quick, what do you got? Did you see this? So I looked for this and found it last night. Boston on Sunday night had the Patriots going head to head with the Chiefs in Foxborough, and they had the Red Sox going head to head in game one of the ALCS against the Astros. So what were Bostonians watching Sunday night? The Red Sox in a game one ALCS, or the Patriots in a regular season game, albeit a huge regular season game against Patrick Mahomes and the undefeated Chiefs. The Pat's game did a 33. locally and the Red Sox did a 21 locally. Wow. That's crazy sports numbers overall. Yeah. The

Pat, crazy sports numbers overall, indeed. Good point. Didn't even think of it from that perspective. The Patriots, I've, I worked in Boston for a year and a half. I commuted up Monday back Friday for about 16 months in 2001. And I love Boston. I went to a lot of Red Sock games. I just, I love that area. I think it's a great area and it's a great sports town. But I can tell you in the year 2000, 2001, there was no chance the Patriots were the number one team in town.

No, of course not. The Coach Patrol, is that what we named the people that are out there tweeting me about coaching blunders? Did we pick Coach Patrol? Coach Patrol or was it Coach Squad or something like that? I don't know. I think it was the Coach Patrol. God, it was only yesterday. Why don't we go back and find out what we called them?

But they continue to help me. Tweet me at Kevin Shee in D.C. if you see a major coaching gaff. They reminded me of a tweet that I sent out Saturday night while watching the Michigan-Wisconsin game that I didn't even really mention yesterday. I mentioned about how Jim Harbaugh put in the backup quarterback on the first drive that they were actually moving the ball

in a nothing-nothing game. I hate that. I hate when these college coaches feel bowl. to recruiting promises and take that freshman quarterback with all that talent who wasn't named starter and put them in for packages during tight games. You know, it's nothing, nothing. You've got your starter, Shea Patterson throwing the ball all around the park looking great. And then you take them out for a play or two and you go backwards and you end up, you know, not scoring. The end of the half, there was a major Wisconsin gaff. I think Wisconsin is,

always well-coached. It doesn't matter who's been there over the years. They've been a well-coached team. But Michigan threw a third and 18 pass for four yards with about 45 seconds to go in the half at the Wisconsin 37-yard line. And Wisconsin just let the clock roll down to three seconds before Michigan attempted a field goal from 54 yards out that missed.

A hello, again, I'm going to say this until I'm blue in the face. there are a lot of things that are debatable when it comes to coaching clock management, score management. I know everybody thinks you should go for two every time. It's not what I necessarily subscribe to. percentages matter. If you're a good two-point conversion team, it actually matters. If you're a 44% two-point conversion team, you don't go for two every time.

And you don't go for two, by the way, everybody says it's an absolute must. You don't go for two if you're down 14 like the Eagles did. to get it to 20 to 14 instead of 20 to 13 kicking the PAT. It depends on what kind of two-point conversion team you are, what your percentages are, because if you're a 45% two-point conversion team, that math doesn't play out. And context means everything too.

I mean, are you moving the ball? Is the matchup right? Is your quarterback good? You have the right play call. All of that matters. But here's what is absolutely, to me, not debatable. that if you are in a tight game against a good opponent, that more possessions are better than less possessions.

I'm talking about more offensive possessions for you is better than fewer offensive possessions for you. The more offensive possessions you have, the more chances you will have to score. And Wisconsin took all three of their timeouts to the locker room in that game. Instead of having an opportunity with about 38 seconds to go from their own 37 yards,

line with three timeouts to go get themselves a field goal. Now, maybe Michigan would have punted the ball if Wisconsin had called their timeouts, but you still have to call your timeouts to see what happens. There was one other thing from the Redskins game that I didn't mention the other day. Somebody tweeted me about whether or not I thought Fabian Moreau held Jerias right on that last play, the fourth and five play, and I went back and looked at it last night, and there was a slight grab of the jersey on that play. But you know what? In that game, if you recall on Sunday, they let a lot go. Yeah. They didn't call a lot. I don't think there was one PI called in the

entire football game. I don't believe there was. And then somebody else tweeted me about what my thoughts were about Swaranger getting the taunting penalty at the end. My thoughts on things like that are always the same. Act like you've been there. And you know what? In that particular situation, a 15-yard penalty or half the distance to goal, even though it was a three-knee situation, although it ended up being a one-knee situation because Ron Rivera didn't even use his final two-timeouts, which I would always do.

You never know. It may be a one-in-million shot that there's going to be a botched snap, but make them snap it anyway. I would. You got nothing to lose. But, yeah, you back up your offense inside the 10-yard line with that taunting penalty. and if there is, let's just put it this way.

Okay, let me put it a better way. I don't think DJ Swaranger knew that Carolina only had two timeouts in that situation. That's my guess. I could be wrong. I don't think he had done the math. The Redskins were in a knee-ed-out situation. Maybe he had, and if he did, I'll give him credit for that. But if Carolina had had three timeouts in that situation,

and the taunting penalty was still a penalty. penalty that he went out and got because he let his emotions get to him. Now your punter, if you're forced to punt after three straight running plays, is punting for much deeper in his end zone. Now, again, I mentioned this the other day. In that situation, had they gotten to that situation, they should have taken a safety at 2317 and then punted it freely from their own 20-yard line, flipping the field hopefully with the kick rather than kicking deep in your own end zone. and I would hope that if they had gotten into that situation on Sunday, Gruden would have known what to do,

but I'm not confident of that. All right, let's bring in Mike Wilbon on the Kevin Sheehan Show podcast. I appreciate you doing this. You know how much I love having conversations with you about almost anything, but certainly this time of year. And I was thinking about something. Last night, you are, unlike your partner, who I love dearly, you are really a massive sports fan.

I mean, let's be honest. Tony's not a massive sports fan. He's not watching games like you and I do, right? No, not compared to the biggest fanatics like the two of us in our business now. Exactly. So I'm thinking about, you know, talking to you today, and I would think that this time of the year is one of, if not, your favorites. True or not?

D. Number one, because you've got either the league championship series or World Series, You got college football in full swing. You got the NFL just starting to take shape. And even now, because it starts two to three weeks earlier than it used to, you've got the NBA. And sort of all there on a plate for you. So, yeah, I was just talking about this, Kevin, a couple days ago. I think it's number one in terms of my favorite times a year.

In that, yes, nothing, it has a championship upper competition, but everything is going full throttle. You sound tired, so I'm assuming. that you stayed up last night and watched the entire baseball game, did you? I did. What an idiot. No, you're not. Because I, and I talked about this earlier, baseball's not my number one, by a long shot, but postseason baseball in a close game, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh inning in last night through the 13th, I don't know if there is a play-by-play or pitch-by-pitch tension that exists like it does in a post-sense.

season, close, late-inning baseball game? The only thing I find sort of very similar, I would say, is the NHL. Overtime hockey? Because just, I mean, one score is just so enormous. I mean, even, you know, a two-out single to right off the, you know, end of somebody's bat, to bring the entire stadium, not as I mentioned, the viewing audience, you know, to its feet. And you could see that last night.

nobody could score, people weren't even getting close to scoring in that game with, you know, Dodgers and Milwaukee. So I kind of agree, I mean, the pitch-to-pitch madness, especially when you have a team. Kevin Bowes in my life, I never had a team playing in the fall. Right, right. I just never had it. Well, and I didn't even have a team. That's right.

Yes, true. But I would look at people's grim faces and think, oh, my God, one day. I'm going to know what this feels like. And so, you know, for what three, four years in a row with the Cubs in the playoffs, I know what it feels like to be, you know, one of those fans. Did counsel make a mistake last night pitching to Bellinger with first base open and Grandala on deck? Yes.

I just didn't understand why he did it. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Because the Dodgers are out of moves. when they put Gruntall in the game two innings earlier, whatever it was, he was the last position player they had. So why would you pitch to Bellinger?

Now, I didn't say up for the post game. I did not say up for that. He was asked about it. What would he say? He said, hold on, I've got the quote right here. He said that, well, first of all, Bellinger was surprised that he got pitched to

and didn't. get pitched around, worst case. He said, I was surprised that they were attacking me and throwing strikes. Counsel said, quote, I thought it was worth the risk of trying to get them to pitch,

to pitching to Bellinger. And if that at bat goes to Grendal, we'll walk Grendal to get to the pitcher, because there's no subs at that point to put in for the pitcher. But Grendal is three for 23 in the postseason with 11 strikeouts. He just struck out like the last four at bats. So

that seemed like one of those major strategic errors. And I love the conversation in baseball because in a game like that, that thing, I mean, imagine if it happened in Boston or New York versus Milwaukee, what they'd be doing to Old Craig Council. All right.

So I do want to get to the NBA, and I actually want to get your thoughts on the Redskins in a moment as well. Is anybody close to the Warriors, if they stay healthy? Yeah, Boston. I think the Celtics actually could beat the Warriors this year. I'm not saying they'd be favored.

I'm not saying I would bet that way, but I think they could. I think by the time, if they're healthy, they got all their guys when the playoff starts, I mean, Boston, I would not overlook Boston. I would not say that the Warriors are, you know, a lock to just walk over them to the championship. Yeah, I think they're that good.

And yet, I do think that Toronto could challenge Boston in the East. I don't think Toronto can win the whole thing. But I think the Raptors could, I'm not overlooking them by any stretch. And if Kauai Leonard is the same guy that we last saw beating the Warriors by 25. Yes, before he got hurt. ...conference finals two years ago, then, you know, maybe I have to change my tune, Kevin. But I think the Celtics may be up to that. Look, I'm with you on Toronto.

I don't care what their recent playoff history is. Kauai Leonard Wright is a top three player in the league. And if you have one of those guys, you can win it all. Or you certainly can get to the finals to face Golden State. I'm actually really surprised that you think Boston could beat Golden State. I think Boston can certainly get there. I just don't see in a best of seven if they're right and they're interested that anybody gets that close.

Well, but remember, we've seen this. The Warriors, the Warriors still hear the sweet Georgia Brown music in their ears when they get big lead, they get up, you know, a game. Look, Houston beat them last year. Let's face it, if Chris Paul doesn't get hurt, and I love the Warriors. I'm not one of those people who tries to take shots at the Warriors for any reason. I think they're great for sport, specifically great for basketball. they have helped the game evolve more than any single team in the last 15 years,

but they were going to lose to the Houston Rockets last year. Chris Paul was healthy. And so to me, I've seen them get beat. They never should have lost to Cleveland three years ago. They should be working on their, whatever it is, fifth straight now. And they goof around just a little too much for my taste for me to put them, you know, the same category as sometimes as, as great as they are, as Michael's teams, as Magic's teams as Larry and Kevin McHale and all those guys.

That's the one thing I think you could point to them and say, here's where they're a little vulnerable. So will they be the odds-on favorite? Yes. Should they be? Yes. I'm not going to say, and I'm looking and wondering if anybody in the West can beat them. I don't think so.

I think Houston is going to take a little step back this year. Why? I think losing Areza. Yeah, I just, big loss. I think those are big losses. I think defensively, Houston, that's what enabled Houston to build that lead series lead last year on Golden State. I don't believe Carmelo Anthony being plugged into that gives them the same dynamic. I tend to agree with you.

What are the Lakers? What is their upside? Well, you know, it's funny. We had Charles Barkley on the show yesterday. And I said to Charles, okay, people are all over the map on their predictions on the Lakers. There are people I know, like the post-Tembon Tempts, the post-national NBA beatwriter, who doesn't even have them making the playoffs. There are people I've seen who say, okay, they may finish fourth or fifth,

but they're going to be the second best team in the West, but a time of playoffs roll around, meaning they can get to the conference finals against Golden State. And I'm somewhere in the middle. That's a wide range, isn't it? Yeah, isn't it? Well, obviously it's because we just don't know what it's going to look like with LeBron, but we know what LeBron's been on teams with nothing in Cleveland. Right.

They're a playoff team. There's no way they're not a playoff team. Well, I think they are. Now, one thing I will say, Kevin, is they never had to go through the West. LeBron never had to go through the West to get to the finals. That's true. And, you know, it's going to be, and he's gotten this come up against the Western Conference teams, particularly the Spurs and Golden State. So, look, Utah's really good.

I know a lot of people who think that Denver is going to be better than the Lakers. I am not one of those. So Tony thinks the Lakers are going to win 50. I don't know that I think that. But I think I got the Lakers in the sort of five-hole. fourth or fifth. You know what I'm sorry, go ahead. Finish the dog.

No, no, no. I have them there. And I do think by the time the playoffs roll around, they're going to be difficult no matter what the seed is. You know what I love about the team that they've put together? Is they have some killer competitors to go with LeBron. Rondo, Stevenson, Josh Hart is a tough. I think he's going to continue to develop into a really good point.

player. I love the guy they drafted from Michigan, Wagner. But Rondo, to me, Mike, I've said this for several years on the radio shows that I've done. I love watching. I know he's crazy and he hasn't always been the easiest guy to deal with. But I think the way he plays the game and games that matter, you know, in playoff games is as high IQ as anybody, like since magic, since, you know, some of the, and him with LeBron in a postseason series would be fun to watch. I would, some of those guys, but now

I do worry about Stevenson and Beasley and, you know, I worry about some of that in that locker room. McGee. McGee, but McGee now has had three years with the warriors.

I mean, he's a different, he's a completely different animal than he was. He was here. He was just the league leading knucklehead, or certainly one of them. So, But there are some guys I worry about some wild cards But I do think that most of those guys are at

The point in their lives Where this is all they want left This is all they're playing for And the thing is they're on such short-term contracts Low-value contracts You can get rid of them You can say to Michael Beasley Listen, it was nice having you

We don't need you anymore Goodbye You can what's it cost you? Nothing I don't know that anybody's going to deep sick that team. I know that's a worry for some people, including some real insiders, Kevin. There are people who are, I mean, there are veteran basketball

people who think that LeBron is just going to, you know, just go say at some point, wait a minute, what do we have here? A certain father of a certain second year player in the league. How are you going to handle that? We haven't heard of him. We ever heard

a peep out of the ball for like what? For like seven months. Well, he's been out of the country, right? He ain't been out of the country largely, but, you know, he can come back. The spotlight's going to be very bright and attractive to him once they start playing. Hey, what's important in Los Angeles right now with the Rams being, you know, arguably the best team in the NFL, the Dodgers in the midst of a really good NLCS and the Lakers getting ready to tip off tomorrow night?

How does L.A., what's the most popular team? What's the order of popularity out there? The Lakers. The Lakers is not even close. Really? And I'm continually surprised by that, Kevin. Now, the Dodgers haven't won in the long. My God, they're the Dodgers.

But the Dodgers have empty seats at these playoff games. I know. In fact, when do the Dodgers become the Atlanta Braves, where Los Angeles is so spoiled that, I look at the Dodgers haven't won and whatever it is, you know, 30-some years? how can you have the Dodgers have empty seats at home playoff games? In fairness, some of those games have been early starts for them.

I thought about that. They've been some, you know, five o'clock stars as opposed to, you know. Today's is a two o'clock start. You know, the game's not sold out. It's game five of the NLCS. But a two o'clock start in Boston or Chicago or Washington, I mean, or New York. I don't know, Washington. The Nats had a couple of those.

early playoff starts against the Cardinals a few years ago in the Giants where that park wasn't completely filled for an early start. This is crazy. But it's the Lakers. To answer your question, if the Lakers, people are just so drawn to them and they are so out of their minds, they're not rational. And that's, of course, what you want your fan base to be. Right.

And they've had these five years out of the playoffs. they haven't had any success since Kobe. I mean, since Kobe, you know, late prime Kobe. And so it's, you know, just looking at this. And a lot of them, you know, they're taking some while to get themselves used to LeBron. They've not just automatically, you know, pulled LeBron close. There's very much a territorial situation of he's not Kobe. We're glad to have him, but we're still.

on the bandwagon. We're not going to sell our seats, but he's not Kobe. And so that irrational sort of edginess to Laker fans makes you crazy, but no, it's the Lakers. And we're going to see it in all of its glory. They're going to be very hateable again starting tomorrow night. Yeah, tomorrow night. I'll just, because I want to get to the wizard's your thoughts on them, but I would be shocked if the Lakers aren't a top six seed worst case. I think higher than that. They have, of course, they have a LeBron. They have basketball players.

They do. You know, Rondo and Ball, you know, in Ingram or basketball players. And I'm glad you mentioned Ingram, Kevin, because I think Ingram's going to be one of those guys. I think he, he and Coosma are the players that really will get. better playing with LeBron, practicing with LeBron, being on the wrong end of a LeBron, Tom Brady-style rant at the end of a game when they do something wrong. I think that those guys become near, if not absolute, all-star level players. Yeah.

I mean, by this year. Yeah, and I'm telling you, the guy they drafted, he probably won't even play this year. But down the road, Wagner from Michigan is one of those 6-11 guys. high energy, and he can shoot it. All right, what are the Wizards this year with Dwight Howard? Well, you know what? So in the PTI newsroom yesterday, we had, and by we, I just mean the people in the room, some of whom are from Washington, some of whom aren't, but most of whom have been here

and are somehow between curious and totally invested in the Wizards, we had like a 20-minute, you know, seven-person scream-a-sream-thon about the Wizards. Wizards. And again, people are all over the place. I think that this will depend, of course, on Dwight Howard because they did go out and get them. I think that the Wizards can be as high as a four-seed. I think Philadelphia is going to take a step back. Maybe they won't take a backslide much. But I can see Philly taking a backslide.

I can see the Pacers being fine for the playoffs, but still taking a little backslide. And I think this is the last go-round for this Wizards team. I think they know it together. that Bradley Beal is going to be a guy as a free agent that the Lakers are going to, I mean, Golden State is going to take a look at. The Lakers will take a look at me. Bradley Bill will get a lot of interest, and he probably won't be here if they don't really get going this year. But I think the Wizards have the pieces. And I know I'm not going to put them here to Toronto or Boston.

But I think they could sneak in there. It depends on health. It depends on attitude. I mean, I like the combination of guys they have with Ubre and twin. They got a lot of skill. They now have a lot of experience. It's going to be up to Scott Brooks. It's going to be a difficult job for any head coach.

But I think the Wizards have the wherewithal to be really good this year, a 50-win team in the east that, if healthy, Dwight Howard still should be able to get them 12 rebounds a game. How many guys know he can do that? So I'm not going to say I'm bullish, but I believe in them, but yet, Kevin, like you, I can see the downside. If they come out in a funk and they don't get along and they don't really figure out how to play with each other, can I see a downside to them? Yeah, I can't. I'm counting on it being a little different this year.

I think I'm hopelessly optimistic when it comes to this group because I have thought talent-wise, they've been a 50-win Eastern Conference team the last few years. Now, there have been a lot of reasons why that hasn't happened. Injuries, you know, number one on the list. You know, Wall misses half the games last year. Beal misses a bunch games the year before. You know, they've had those issues. And I think maturity's been an issue.

And then you add a guy that isn't necessarily mature. and Howard, but I actually had Scott Brooks on the show a little bit earlier. And the one thing from a basketball standpoint, Mike, that you can see they're trying to do is they know they are one of the best fast break up-tempo teams in the league when everybody's healthy. But to play that way, you've got to get stops and you got to have a guy that's a stopper. And I think that's the reason more than any other, that it's Dwight Howard and not Martian Gortot anymore. because Gortat was, to me, not nearly as bad as the fans thought he was. I thought he was valuable in many ways offensively.

I think one of the better pick and roll players at that position in the league. But Dwight Howard will get stops. He'll get blocked shots and they can run. And if they run, we've seen it when they've looked, I mean, not Golden State, you know, warriors like, but as, you know, the next group of two or three teams that are as good as anybody when they run. They are, and Howard, I completely agree with you. With that entire analysis, I mean, Howard should facilitate that. That's what they haven't had.

But you know what? I think chemistry is more important in professional basketball than any other sport. And I think it depends on fewer people. What a locker room is like. You know, one guy cannot sort of unravel a pro football locker room. one guy doesn't unravel a baseball locker room because they don't even some of them don't even talk to each other a basketball locker room man it is such a delicate place and there's such a delicate balance and I've seen I have seen Dwight Howard kill a couple of teams just kill the team I've seen Dwight Howard where players in that locker room on his team at that time Kevin have said to me he's he's poisoned he's killing this room and they mean it and they see say it while he's 10 feet away. Right.

I've seen that. And I've seen that when he was an all-star. He's not an all-star anymore. But, you know, he brings the tangibles that you need for that team. But what about the intangibles? And Bradley Beal

is a quiet guy, no matter what. I mean, I know he may talk to the media and he's personable as hell. But Bradley is not, you know, he's not a take-charge personality. and neither really is John. Right.

I mean, that's not true. You know, John's primary personality, he has grown into being better. I mean, I asked him last year on the eve of the season, we had to sit down, you know, for something to the period of the Sports Center, and John said, I know I got to be better at this. That's not naturally who I am. That's an admission. You know what?

To me, that's some self-awareness there. I did not see that quote. I think John is fairly self-aware. I'm not going to say he's the most of an aware person, but I wonder, you know, who's going to, John has to lead them. And the NBA is just one of those sports where your best player, almost, almost always has to lead you. There's some exceptions. I mean, the Golden State Warriors, Draymond Green, is a leader, if not the leader.

And you could argue there are three players on the team better than him on the floor at any time. But so I'm just, you know, interested to see how they start, by the way. I mean, I think this is the year where the Wizards King can't get off to one of those starts when they're losing to Orlando. Right. Portland and home. Phoenix and home. Phoenix at home.

God, that's you. Jeez. I'm very excited about, they got talent. They got skill. They got people who can play that game. Are they going to do it? All right. Switching subjects and then I'll let you run because you've already spent too much time with me.

But what do you make of the Redskins one week, not bad, the next week horrible. They're three and two. They're in sole possession of first place, and they actually have a game Sunday against their arch rival that feels like it's starting to build here midweek into a pretty

big game. Yeah, you know, it's funny because I now, because I'm never inside a redskin locker room and haven't been eight years and just sort of watch the games from afar, I, it seems to me, I know

the record would probably suggest it too. This is just the pattern they've fallen into. It's a pattern they've fallen into the head coach is responsible for getting a team out of that. And he hasn't been able to do that. And if he doesn't, to me, if he doesn't do it this year, he won't be here. Agreed.

I think it's the personnel. I think it's the temperament of the people they have. That they are up and down. Josh Norman, I mean, you know, you know, every, every, and I know that the, position carries a lot of baggage in the league in terms of that emotional sort of player, that position has almost as much of it is wide out.

And, you know, everybody says, oh, this guy's the best player in the league for two years. That position, like, Asemois, and, you know, what's the name, Revis Island, those guys are great for like three years. And people proclaiming the best in the sport, and they're rarely leaders on a team. They rarely play. Look at Jalen Ramsey right now. So Ramsey is like a dog right now. I mean, so if, but they take their personality cues from guys like that.

And they're just up and down and you can't count on them from week to week. And I do like Alex Smith. I am one of those guys who thought, okay, this is not an upgrade from cousins to Smith. It's not an upgrade. but Smith has a personality more suited to maybe what that locker room needs, speaking of chemistry. So I don't know. Again, I don't see those guys at all.

I don't know them anymore. Alex Smith was one of the few guys on that team left over that I actually still know, and I like him and I root for him. But wow, I just think it's an interesting study. The games, even they've won this season and lost this season. So yeah, this is a big week. I find myself paying more attention to the Redskins this week than I probably have paid in, I'm going to say, three years, Kevin.

Yeah, I don't. So now I'm not talking about attendance. I'm not talking about the drama of the Redskins. And there's still drama. Yeah, yeah. There's still drama. You know, you and Tony get into these arguments, NBA, NFL all the time, and I know most of them are a lot of them are tongue in cheek,

but my God, the NFL's season so far is off to the start that perhaps it needed with exciting games every week, a lot of offense, and the ratings reflect that. What so far about this season are you into or are you not into? Do you think it's sustainable? And, you know, actually, let me ask it a different way, because I'm just sort of riffing here. Are you surprised at the anthem issue,

in terms of a story has pretty much died. And I'm not saying that it hasn't died with the people that really care about it, but in terms of a week-to-week narrative of the NFL season, nothing. I'm not hearing anything about it week to week. I know there was one. So are we talking about there's been one player who's taking a knee so far? No, I actually think it's more. I think it's more.

It may be more, but my point is you're not hearing whatever the night. numbers are. What we thought is not what we thought. It would be, yes, I'm surprised, but I'm not surprised at this. NFL players back down. They back down because they don't have the power. They don't have the strength. They don't have the influence.

They don't have the leverage. The players in the other two sports, I'm talking about, you know, in order. Baseball, in terms of its union, baseball has the strongest union we've ever seen in sports. And the NBA, which has more just individual power. among its players than the other sports. Pro football players back down. NFL, we've seen this. We saw a replacement season for God's sake.

I know it was only three games long, but we know that NFL owners, when they put their foot on the necks of NFL players, they break. Yeah, yet they... Remember all the players who crossed the... They got riled up for a while, Kevin, but this offseason, when NFL owners made clear what they didn't want. And in some

cases, communities made that clear. And Colin Kaepernick doesn't have a job. And Eric Reed is it who just got one. You know, they back down. And they have, they seemingly have backed down here.

And that I'm not surprised at. I tell people all the time. They don't have leverage. They don't have the leverage. They can be replaced. Their contracts and therefore their spots, on a roster are not guaranteed. They are not solid. So if this war was being fought by NBA players or Major League Baseball players, I think you would see what you're talking about, what you kind of

expected. But that's not, that fight hasn't been there for NFL players as a whole. Look, it's a sport where job security and the length of your earning power is fleeting. And that's a big part of it. But, you know, I was also just thinking about, remember, shortly before the season started, you know, the owners backed down. They backed away from this very strict, disgust, you know, the anthem policy. And I'm wondering if actually the league who never gets things right, you know, when it comes to this kind of strategy, PR-wise, in particular, maybe they got this one right by saying, we're going to back off this thing. Because you know what, at the end of the day, I mean, these are serious issues that are being brought to everyone's attention, and they're brought in many other ways as well.

But people, when it gets to this league, this time of year, it's part of a habit, it's part of their rhythm, it's part of their schedule, and if the games are good and they're big, they're going to watch. Look, I've always said, well, I see what is on the horizon for the NFL. Tony and I both agree on this. We're not in the camp that the NFL is going to have trouble now. we're in a campus as the NFL is going to have gradual trouble. And there may be massive erosion within X number of years. I mean, just, and I don't think the number one issue is the anthem. And what I'm saying is, I think the number one issue is health.

And the game is not, the product Kevin is just not as good. I mean, don't tell me that I understand that the networks want 4340 and 3330, whatever that other game while they're being. I guess it was 3330. The networks want that on Sunday and Monday night, and that's what they got. but that's the product. People do like their violence, and they're not going to get a dose of it. That's true.

And another generation or two of people come along, and they're not watching in the same numbers. They're not consuming in the same ways. So I think there will be a roachia. I just don't think it's going to happen in the next five or ten years. I think it's going to take much longer than that. That's always been my position is that the issues confronting the NFL are going to take a long time because it's still the most popular form of sport and entertainment in America. It is still the number one TV show in America.

And people not 28 years old, but people 58 years old drive that train and drive the advertising interest in America and drive the business interest because we're the ones spending the money. And millennials aren't because they don't have it. And so, yeah, that's going to change, but it ain't going to change overnight. So I don't know that the NFL got it right yet. I don't know what weeks this became a really big deal. Suppose there is unrest in the country.

Suppose the midterm elections bring, I don't know, rhetoric, particularly things in the White House, the players. You know, I'm not saying that that union is so weak. And the football players are so weak individually that there won't be cultural reaction because there will be. I'm just saying that it's going to take maybe more than it would take any other sports to sustain it. There are just so many things that are, I don't disagree with you on the health issue, on by the way, the decreasing number of people playing football at lower levels. That too. But at the same time, you have sort of an opposing force and perhaps an enhancing force, which is the legalization of sports betting. and what that'll do to increase interest in the league in all of the leagues.

And betting's always been a big part of the popularity of football, both the NFL and college football. And now you're going to introduce it state by state to a lot of people that just didn't have access to it before. And anyway, it's an interesting thing. I don't think it's five to ten years. I think it's out of my lifetime range. I hope that's beyond ten years from now. It better be.

But I think we were, with Tony and me, we were talking five to ten, emphasis on the ten before we even see the beginning of that. Yeah. In terms of having a massive impact on the sport and culture, again, we, you know, we both of us all the time, it's going to be not in our lifetimes. I think it may be coming a little quicker than that. I've backed off never in my lifetime, no way.

I've backed off a 35, 40-year. thing, but I can, there's things you can see. And listen, is the 43-40 game sustainable, and is that what people really want? Maybe it is. Maybe I'm, because I grew up in a culture where I grew up a fan of a team that didn't score 40 points once every 10 years. Yeah. So maybe that there are fans of certain teams that don't see that as being that important

a thing, but maybe it is. Maybe that, the product has been better this year, but when you can't, when you have people on their way to the quarterback, that they can't hit them. Yeah, I can't stand that. And by the way, those are the things too, and you did sort of refer to this. It's the lack, if the violent part,

the physical part of the game continues to be legislated out of the game, it's not even about some of these other issues. At what point do you say it's not the game that I loved? And I don't necessarily love 43-40 games, although that was breathtaking the other night, the way they played it. It was, and probably because of the people involved, and it was compelling. Yes, that's true, too.

But some of these aren't compelling. And we'll, I mean, we'll continue to see, as a season of folks, I think that's just the tone of the league. I mean, when you have a Chicago Bears team, for God's sake, going up and down. I didn't even ask you about the Bears. 31 and a half, or 28 and a half. After scoring 48, you know, the previous game, that's showing you sort of of where it's going.

But, you know, it's interesting just traveling overseas in the summer as I do almost every summer. This summer was in Russia. I went actually to see a World Cup game. And it's just interesting globally, you know, being in Russia, three or four of the last five years have gone to London and seeing the enormous individual popularity of soccer players and NBA players, just enormous. and seeing no footprint from professional football.

And it's one of the things they're trying to force it. Maybe they hope Jacksonville will play four home games there. They look at this and they know that, you know, in baseball, Rob Manfred's spoken to it. They need the big stars to be global stars. And at football, there are none. They're none. None, zero. I mean, Tom Brady now is starting to develop where people vaguely know where he is in certain European cities.

They go, yeah, yeah, you know, American football, right? You know, but there's no footprint for it. And I don't think that that means that baseball and soccer are going to make inroads on pro football, especially given the win they're played. I don't think that's going to happen again in our lifetimes. But the NBA, which you refer to asking this question, they've got a season in which everything could align for them just to become a solid two. And they're sort of back and forth with baseball.

Oh, it is, right? The NBA, to me, is, well, college football, if you look at things like TV ratings, is probably number two. You're talking about pro sports? Yeah, they're two. They're two. It's not even close. But the NBA's number two among the pro sports here. I think it is.

Baseball becomes so local. Like right now, who watching among other than lunatics like us, who knows the manager of the Milwaukee Brewers'ers' Secret Council? Again, I'm with you, totally with you. And, well, the other thing, too, the NBA, unlike Major League Baseball, has become, like the NFL's become, a 12-month-of-the-year sport. I mean, these pre-season games, Mike, when did we ever watch pre-season NBA like we have the last couple of falls? Listen, as a guy covering the beat, I barely went to those. Right. And, you know, I was in Chicago for, I don't know, for family stuff a few weeks ago when they played their first pre-season game.

and I decided to go just see the Bulls basically talk to guys in the locker room. I want to talk to Jabari Parker about his career, and where's going. I wanted to see Wendell Carter and we just say hello. You could get to know some young guys now. And when I got there, and on a Sunday, it was a Sunday preseason game.

So NFL games are just ending. I got there, and they were like, what seemed like 16 or 17,000 or I was like, whoa, why are people at this? This is a non-play. off team. Right. This is a total

reason for people. I want to see Zach Levine what he looked like again coming off fully off knee surgery. And so people are going to these

things. You mentioned the ratings and the people watching the Lakers and the Warriors for preseason. And certainly last night I was locked into both games.

So they've got perhaps as close to a perfect storm as they're going to get for starting their season. Look, having three boys who are sports fans,

having coached basketball for 20 plus years and been with young people. The biggest change over the last 10 years is young kids, no matter what the demographic is, they love the NBA. They love it. And that's where the NBA smiles and says, look at our future because these kids are so into it. And you know what?

They're into it now more than they're into college basketball by a lot. They are. And that's a surprising development at a lot of levels to me. That's the case in my house where, you know, my son is a college football, you know, borderline fanatics, particularly for the age that he is up on Saturday watching game day and all the stuff. Oh, yeah, my kids too. Yeah, your kids are much younger. And then pro basketball. Even though you're much older than I am, you have much younger kids.

I do indeed. Look, thanks so much. I love doing this and I'd love to do it with you, you know, in a month or two. Absolutely, Kevin. All right, thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me, man. Appreciate it. Always good to catch up with Mike Wilbon.

I want to tell you real quickly before we get to NFL buy or sell on this Wednesday that if you live in the Bethesda Chevy Chase Upper Northwest D.C. area and you don't want a long commute and it's too hard to get work done from home because of the dogs or the kids or whatever, I want you to check out launch workplaces in Bethesda. That's where I have moved. They have flexible and affordable private office solutions, so you can get work done.

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Are you buying or are you selling? NFL buyer sell. So we just had the conversation. I had that conversation with Mike about the NFL and lots of offense. You know what's interesting, though, about this season? There are some teams emerging here through six weeks that have really, really good defenses. I still personally believe that when we get to the end of the year and we get into January

and some of these really good defenses that have enough offense are in the postseason, they're going to be difficult teams to deal with. I've mentioned Baltimore. I am buying Baltimore stock even though it's high now. I bought it before the season. I bought it after the loss to Cincinnati. I bought more of it after the loss to Cleveland. They are the number one defensive team in the league,

and it's not even close. In yards per game, they are 36 yards better than the number two defense in the league, which is Jacksonville. I'm also buying Buffalo's defense. Buffalo right now has the number three defense in the NFL in yards per game. By the way, Dallas is number four,

and Washington's number five. Now, I personally love the Redskins talent, and I think it's going to develop over the next few years into a really good defensive team if they continue to make good moves defensively via roster acquisition and draft. I don't think it's a top five defense right now. I'm not sure it's a top 10 defense right now,

but it's probably no worse than 11th or 12th. But the teams like Houston right now is the ninth ranked defense in yards allowed. which is very often misleading. I like to look at numbers like third down percentage. Right now your top third down defense is in the league are Minnesota 1, Baltimore, 2, Philly 3, Cleveland, 4, Jacksonville 5. Now, you know who's number 6?

A team that I've said is a terrible defensive team, Kansas City. Kansas City's been pretty good in third down defense. But defensively, I'm buying some teams not just for the post-year. season like I would with Baltimore. Like, you know, if Jacksonville were to get there, I still think defensively they would be difficult, as they turned out to be last postseason. But I'm buying a couple of teams that won't make the playoffs, like Buffalo. You know, potentially a team like Tennessee who's still very good on defense.

Dallas is a good defensive team. I don't know if that means they'll end up being a playoff team out of the NFC East, but the Redskins have their hands full on Sunday because Dallas is a good rush defense. Right now Dallas is the number seven rush defense in the league. New Orleans is actually one, which is surprising to me. Philly's two, Baltimore's three. The Redskins are six right now in run defense.

I still think the Redskins have the benefit. This is yards per game. This is an average, not total yards. I know the Redskins have played one less game than a lot of teams because they had the early by week. The Redskins have the benefit. of having played a team in the opener that was lifeless in our Arizona. So that is skewed some of the statistical numbers. I mean, Arizona had a whopping 213 yards of offense in week one against

the Redskins. They were one for eight on third down against the Redskins. They had 68 yards rushing against the Redskins in week one. But I like some of the defenses. In an offensive year, I think there are still some good defensive football teams that I would buy, and I just mentioned them. Baltimore won. I really like Buffalo's defense. I really like Houston's defense, and I like Dallas's defense also. What am I selling this week in the NFL? I'm still selling a couple of teams that have good records.

I don't believe in Miami. I don't. I mean, you know, their wins or they're. The Titans, the Jets, the Raiders, and then that crazy wild game that they could have easily lost against the Bears in overtime. The two decent teams they've played, they've gotten basically handled. The Patriots 387. Now, they led Cincinnati 17, nothing, and got outscored in the second half, 27 Zip in that loss. They have the Lions this week at home.

I like Detroit coming off the buy. They have the Texans the following week. They have the Jets. I should have bought the Jets. I like the Jets defensively too. I actually like their team. And I think those of you that have listened to me know that I think Todd Bowles is very good at what he does.

They're a three-and-three football team. And they have a really good defense, and they've got more playmakers than you would think offensively. Now, their defense sets stuff up a lot, but you've got in Crowell and Powell, you've got a team that can run the football. Real quickly, and I know I'm bouncing around here, do you know that Terrell Pryor had five catches last week

for 57 yards and a touchdown for the Jets? Yep. So I'm selling Miami at their 4-and-2 mark. I'm not a big believer in the Bears at this point at 3-2. It's not just because they're coming off that heartbreaking overtime loss to the dolphins. I don't think they're ready. I think you're going to see it in the next two weeks.

They've got the Patriots this week at Soldier Field. They've got the Jets. They go Patriots Jets. And I say Jets because I just told you I'm buying some jet stock right now. They still have, you know, two games against the Vikings. They still have two games against the Lions. They still have a game against the Packers in the division. They still have to play the Rams.

I don't see the Bears emerging from the NFC North as a playoff team. I don't. I'm not a massive believer in Cincinnati because in that division I think Baltimore is better and they'll prove it. And I know they lost in their one head-to-head with Cincinnati. I think Baltimore's going to win the NFC North and I think Pittsburgh's on the rise right now.

I think Cincinnati will fall back. So I think their four and two isn't a playoff-worthy four-and-two at this point. And I will also just mention this one other quick sell. It's tough to do it after what he did on Sunday night, but I don't think the Packers are that good.

I think the Packers, like the Chiefs are not good defensively, the Chiefs are worse defensively. I think right now the Packers are a one-man show. And I don't know if that can hold up over 16 games. If there's one man who can do it, though. He'd be the one. They're three, two, and one, and their next two games, all right? They have a buy week, and then they play the Rams and the Patriots on the road.

We're going to find out a lot about Aaron Rogers and the Packers the next two weeks. They still play at Minnesota. They still play at Seattle. They have some games on their schedule that are really going to put, I think, some distance, actually, between them and the postseason. I actually believe that Minnesota and Detroit are better than Chicago and Green Bay in the NFC North. I do. but it's the NFL.

One other quick team, just to keep an eye on. Keep an eye on Seattle. They've been quietly pretty good this year. They lost an opener. They could have won. They didn't look great in that Monday night loss to the Bears. They played the Cardinals and it was a tough game, but they had a chance or the only one that had a chance to beat the Rams.

I don't think Denver really had a legitimate chance. Seattle really did have a chance to win. They pounded the Raiders. Their schedule, their wins aren't super impressive. Cowboys, Cardinals, Raiders. But they are, they're a team right now that actually has a better

running back situation than I think people understand. I think Mike Davis is good. I think Chris Carson's good. And Rashad Penny got some carries last week and look pretty good. The rookie, they still don't have what you would call a big play wide receiver unless you believe Doug Baldwin's that. I've always loved

Tyler Lockett. But Russell Wilson quietly, you know, having, you know, having one of those years so far. 13 touchdowns, four picks, a couple of big spots where he's made some big runs. You know,

a completion percentage. You know, last week he was like 17 of 22. I don't know what his completion percentage for the year is, but it's probably approaching 70%. I think Seattle's better than people think. All right, let's finish up the show here.

You were at Maryland's Basketball Media Day yesterday. Was there any, was the conversation at all about sort of what's been going on in college basketball and where they've been in stories regarding either Diamond Stone or Sylvia D'Souza? Very little. He was asked about it and he basically said, you know, we've cooperated every time we asked and moved on. Bruno Fernando was asked about it. Of course, he's good friends with Sylvia de Sousa. He has the same guardian as Silvio de Sousa.

he was asked about it because they're friends and he just kind of said you know i feel bad for him him for what he's going through and just kind of gave a generic answer like that so it was asked not much discussion though uh how you know i i i love mark i mean i love him as a guy it's it's it's such a great family the turgeons are i think and i've always felt this way that he um is criticized a bit too much um i think he's a really good coach somebody who's won as much as he has, you know, doesn't do it by accident. I think he is challenged it sometimes offensively. There have been, you know, their zone offense hasn't always been good. I like Matt Brady and what he brings to the table. Brady was impressive during the practice. And he was brought in specific

specifically for some of that X's and O's offensive stuff. But you always, you know, with Mark, he wears it on his sleeve and you know how he feels about his team at any given point. did you get a sense that he likes this team because I think it's underrated a little bit going into this year. I think Maryland's got some talent. There's a really interesting back and forth between Mark and Barry's Verluga. Because he asked the same thing. Mark kind of gave his standard.

He's like, I really like my team. And he admitted last year there were some aspects he didn't like about his team last year. And Barry said, well, last year you were saying you liked your team. You know, what's the difference this year? And Mark actually said, well, I don't think I. ever like, you know, said that I liked my team. People went back, obviously. Yeah, he did say that about the team last year. He said he said that several times. So that was an interesting back and forth there. It's an interesting team. It just, it's such a young team. No seniors other than even Bender.

You have Anthony Cowen as the lone junior. And it'll, it'll just, it's going to come down to the freshman. I feel like we're saying that a lot lately. But the freshmen have a lot of talent. You're going to see at least two in the starting lineup right off the bat. Jalen Smith, 610 big, who's going to play the five. He's... Who's a one-and-dunner for those people that aren't following Maryland basketball right now. Stick Smith out of Mount St. Joe's in Baltimore is a 6-10, versatile big guy who is already being mocked in the first round of a lot of, you know, NBA June 19 drafts.

And, you know, there's always the possibilities that he's not a one-and-dunner, but he is one of those guys that looks and could be a one-and-duner, which would lead you to believe, you know, like it did with Diamond Stone, and Diamond Stone really didn't fulfill what we as Maryland basketball fans thought he would as a freshman, but that he's going to be a major impact player as a freshman, and they are expecting that. Oh, they absolutely are. He was asked about it. Actually, Mark Turgeon was asked about whether he thought even though Sticks was a top 15 recruit, kind of flying under the radar nationally and even in this area. And he said, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's going to change as soon as he has his first double double, which might be in the very first game

of the season. I thought Fernando improved offensively. I thought he got more patient towards the end of the year, and I think he could be a monster this year, power forward to go next to Stick Smith. And you mentioned two freshmen in the starting lineup. Well, Cowan's obviously going to be one of the starters, and Daryl Morsell, who I think has a lot of DJ Strawberry in him. And what I mean by that is badass competitor, versatile player who will just continue to get better and better better. And by the time we get to late this year, and certainly when he's a junior, Daryl Morsell's going to be a very good college basketball player. Trust me on this. And by the way, he was Stick Smith's teammate at Mount St. Joe's. Is the other freshman starter Wiggins, or is it potentially

Ayala, or I've heard a lot of things about this kid's Sorrell Smith. You know, Siralswood didn't really stand out that much when I saw him yesterday. I think it is either Wiggins or Ayala. Ayala seems to be farther along. He's, and that's kind of what you, you hear when, freshman out of IMG down and older as well. Yes. He's mature. You can see it on the court. He has a lot of maturity. Wiggins, you know, he's the prototypical three. He's just a little bit, I don't know if he's quite there yet. He may have to be. It may not matter. The one guy who actually really impressed me yesterday, Ricky Lindo. He won't necessarily make, crack the starting lineup just because of where he plays. He plays at the four. But he's really, a really, a really,

A late commit, a reclassed guy at a Wilson in Upper Northwest. I had a chance. I've seen him play a half dozen of his high school games over the last, you know, over the last year or so summer and during the fall. And he is a talent. I've heard the same thing that they got a guy that they think is really almost ready. That would shock me based on what I watched. Not saying that He doesn't have huge upside. But, you know, I would be surprised if he's ready to play. I actually thought you were going to hit me with Josh Tamayev, who at times played pretty well last year for them. And they could use him as a depth player.

And am I right about this, that even Bender is back? Oh, yeah. Bender is back. He's healthy. He's the lone senior on the team. So the discussion about him leaving the program and going back to, you know, Bosnia or wherever he was from to play sort of professional. professionally, that didn't happen. It did not happen. Good. I like him. Yes. He's a high IQ player. He's nice depth and that's the thing. Definitely, as far as their bigs go, they have depth.

When it comes to the back court, you know, a little bit less. It'll depend on just how the freshmen develop, how who's ready and who's ready when. But the early part of the season, luckily for them, not exactly murderers row in the early part of the season until you get to Virginia at the end of November there. But it'll be interesting to see exactly how Turgeon uses the players early on. We'll get Mark on the show before the season starts. They have a schedule here that early on, you mentioned the Virginia game in the ACC Big Ten Challenge, but they play a couple of games here early that are going to be interesting. I don't have any clue as to what Loyola Chicago, who was in the final four last year. Remember, Loyola Chicago made it all the way to the final four last year in college basketball.

Maryland plays them this year. I don't know if they have a lot of those players back from their Final Four trip where they lost to Michigan in the Final Four, right? Not Villanova. And then Maryland's also got Seton Hall. I don't know anything about Seton Hall this year. I thought they were a pretty decent team last year. They were a tournament team last year.

And you've got the game with Virginia. So you got some games, you know, in the non-conference portion of the schedule, which, by the way, you work in some Big Ten games because this is the year that they go to the 20 game schedule. Yeah, Penn State's December 1st and then at Purdue December 6th. At Purdue. I think Maryland, correct me if I'm wrong. Aaron is being picked somewhere in the top four, top five of the Big Ten, no worse than fifth, I don't think. I think with Cowan and with Fernando, forget about the fact that they had a top 10 recruiting class with, you know, Smith and Wiggins coming in.

I think just Cowan and Fernando enough, and it hurts that you don't have Kevin Herger next year, but I think that alone should make this Maryland team a tournament team. I think that there's really this year no excuse for 19 and 12 or 19 and 13 or wherever they ended up last year. And you know what? They had some injuries last year. But if they're healthy, this should be a tournament team this year. We say this so many times. How many times have we had to just go back to Diamond Stone?

He was good, but he wasn't what we thought. he would be. You know, if these guys, the freshmen aren't quite what we thought they were, it's not going to be a good season. If they are, or, you know, as Turgent said yesterday, he thinks they're even better than he expected. If that's the case, then yeah, this is a tournament team. All right. When the season starts, which were three weeks away from, two weeks away from whatever it is. October 30th is the exhibition game. And when's the opener? November 6th against Delaware. All right. So we got, we got three weeks, two to three weeks before the opener, we will get Mark Turgeon on before the show.

Tommy's back tomorrow. We haven't taken calls the last two days just because the show's gotten long. But Tommy and I will try to take some calls from you tomorrow. And if you want to write this number down 240, 245, 6225. And I'll tweet out the time that we will open it up for calls tomorrow to get that into the show. I do want to get that into the show. A lot of you tweeted me yesterday. Why didn't you take calls?

It's just that the show got away from us a little bit because we had so much like today. But tomorrow with Tommy back, we'll take some calls. And certainly the next two days, it feels this way to me. It feels like a true Dallas week. Like when's the last time early in the season? You've had a game that, you know, has this level of importance in the division anyway. Maybe not in the NFC as a whole, but in the division. I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks to Mike Wilbon and thanks to Scott Brooks and thanks to Aaron. Aaron covers a lot of teams in town, so we'll always get his perspective as well. Have a great day, everybody.