The Kevin Sheehan Show - Scott Turner + A SB 17 Error?

Episode Date: January 31, 2026

Kevin opened with the greatest moment in DC sports history, 43 years ago tonight. However, was Riggo's famous run actually 43 yards as recorded or was it a yard less than that? Also on the show, former Washington Offensive Coordinator Scott Turner jumped on with Kevin to discuss his three years here in Washington calling plays as well as reminisce about his father Norv's Redskins' teams in the 90's. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Riggins. NBC's Dick Enberg on the call 43 years ago tonight. Simply put, the most memorable sports moment in the history of this city.

Go-line, goal-line. I write 70-CHIP. The show's presenting sponsor is always, Windonation. 866-99. Window Nation.com if you need new windows. I'm going to tell you something about Rigo's Run in Super Bowl 17 that I don't think you've ever heard. That's coming up in a few minutes. On the show today, former Washington offensive coordinator Scott Turner will join me.

First time for Scott being on the show. We'll talk about the three years he spent here as the team's OC, but we'll also go back to the 90s when his father Norve coached the team. I'll get his thoughts on Jaden Daniels, the David Blowhier. We'll get him to pick the Super Bowl as well. Scott Turner

in a few minutes. So Rigo's run 43 years ago tonight in Super Bowl 17 in the Rose Bowl in Pasadena gave Washington a three-point lead, a 20 to 17 lead with just over 10 minutes to go in the

game. You know, the legend of that play, as told many times by so many of us over the years, has occasionally been exaggerated. You know, the touchdown was for the lead. It wasn't a walk-off in overtime. It didn't come with under two minutes to go. It was a crucial moment in the game, of course. But it came in the fourth quarter with still 10 plus minutes left in the game. It didn't in the moment settle the outcome. It wasn't a run that came so late that Miami didn't have ample opportunity to answer. Now, they didn't, and Washington scored on its next offensive drive after forcing a Miami punt. Washington drove the ball, ate a lot of the clock, and scored on a touchdown pass from Joe Thysman to Charlie Brown with two minutes to go.

It was actually a third and goal at the Dolphin's six-yard line. if for whatever reason they don't score on that play, Mosley comes in, kicks a field goal, and Miami gets one more chance, down 23 to 17. But great throw by Joe, great catch by Charlie Brown, the finals 27 to 17. Rigo, of course, the MVP. He set a Super Bowl record with 166 yards rushing, a record that would actually be broken the next year by Marcus Allen.

in Super Bowl 18, and then Timmy Smith eventually broke Allen's mark, and still today, Timmy Smith holds the single game Super Bowl rushing mark with 204 yards in Washington's 42 to 10 win over Denver in Super Bowl 22. A Rigo's touchdown run 43 years ago tonight is the number one moment in D.C. sports history. His performance not only in that game, but throughout those playoffs in January of 83 is all time. You know, it's all time clutch. He strapped the team to his back, 610 rushing yards over four games. It's still the most ever in NFL playoff history for a postseason, and it was the stretch

of games that cemented his bust in the NFL Hall of Fame. So I noticed something that I think I've noticed before, but I've never really looked into it. But I did today, because when you look up the actual box score and the run, the run has been recorded in history. Box score on Pro Football reference, any sort of Super Bowl box score list. the run was registered as a 43-yard touchdown run. But the ball was at the Miami 42-yard line. The ball was actually about a quarter of the way over the 42-yard line. And then you'll hear, I'm going to play for you, Dick Enberg's setup to the fourth and one.

Miami actually called a timeout right after Washington lined up to go for it on fourth and one. Miami called time out. It was actually fourth and less than a yard. It was fourth and about six inches. It was not a full yard. But the ball was actually about a third of the ball was over the 42 yard line mark. And I'm going to read real quickly from the NFL rule book. because I found this, because I was wondering, you know, statistically, now this is a current rulebook, and maybe it was different in 1983. But in determining the yard line, the NFL rule book reads as follows. If any point of the football rests on or above any yard stripe, future action is to be computed

from that yard line. However, if the football has been advanced beyond any yard stripe, future action is computed from the first yard line in advance of the football. So if it actually had been beyond the 42-yard line, it would have been a 41-yard touchdown run. Or if the ball hadn't been touching the 42-yard line, it would have been a 43-yard run. That's how they saw it, and that's why it was recorded as a 43-yard touchdown run, because, for whatever reason, statisticians didn't see that the football was actually touching the 42-yard line. A good third of the football is, you know, over the 42-yard line. What's interesting is, and I'm going to play for you this Dick Enberg setup before the time out, the ball actually, got moved back a tiny bit before the actual snap where Riggins gets the ball and runs for the

touchdown. But it was still, if not a third of the football touching the 42-yard line, a quarter of the football was touching the 42-yard line. It should have been recorded, at least based on today's rules, as a 42-yard touchdown pass. Now, I'm going to play for you, Dick Enberg's set up to the first alignment before Miami calls a time out before that fourth and less than one. Ball is at the 42 of Miami, so this could be a play they talk about during the offseason. If Miami stops the Redskins, they've forsaken the punt to try to tend Miami deep. They're going for the first down.

And the dolphins call time out. So Dick Edinburgh on his own or maybe with his spotter's help, called it at the 42-yard line, which it was. And before Miami called a timeout, as mentioned, the ball was about a third over the 42-yard line. When they came back and snapped it, the ball was snapped with about a quarter of the ball, about 25% of the ball covering the 42-yard line and actually nosing beyond it. it should have been recorded as a 42-yard run, at least based on today's rules. How about Frank Herzog's call? You'll have to wait until the end, but here's Herzog's call of Rigo's fourth and one run, and at the very end, you'll hear how many yards Frank Herzog thought the run was.

There's the snap hand to Riggins. He's not the first round. 42-yard touchdown round on fourth and a foot. John Riggins is giving the redskins the lead in Super Bowl. Frank thought it was a 42-yard touchdown run in the moment as well, because it was, at least based on today's statistical rules. It was recorded as a 43-yard touchdown run, and even the Washington Post in their game story, the night of January 30th, 1983, wrote, you know, Riggins broke every important running record, 38 carries 166.

years in Super Bowl lore. He gave the Redskins their first lead at 20 to 17, running 43 yards on a fourth and inches play with 10 minutes and one second left in the game. And yeah, I mean, that's how it was recorded. It was a 43-yard run. It will forever be a 43-yard run. And I don't want to take a yard away from Rigo's 166-yard record day.

in Super Bowl 17. But it's been one of those things. I think I've noticed it before. You know, the 43-yard touchdown run has kind of been etched, I think, in everybody's memory. But whenever you go back and watch it, whether it's Frank's call or it's Enberg's call, you hear 42-yard line, 42-yard run. And if you really examine it, it was a 42-yard touchdown run. Why did I just waste all of that time on that?

I have no idea. I wanted to read this real quickly, and then we'll get to Scott Turner. It comes from Chase. I know Chase very well. Chase was a former 980 intern, but I knew Chase long before. He became a 980 intern. I'm friends with Chase's parents, have known the family for years. Chase is a huge sports fan of all DC teams.

And Chase writes, hey Kevin, hope all as well. I was listening to the discussion about the best coaches in NFL history. And one factor that never comes up despite it likely having a significant impact is the difference between the pre-salary cap and post-salary cap eras. I know in the past you've said a big reason Joe Gibbs initially retired was because the salary cap was a year or two away and Washington couldn't maintain its roster. I don't mean this to tarnish Gibbs, as he's still one of the best coaches ever for plenty of reasons,

but he was coaching a team that was more likely than not spending more than the average NFL team. We see in Major League Baseball how much of an impact having no salary cap can have, so it had to matter in the NFL too. Yeah, great point, Chase. No doubt. The league has always been designed. for parity, you know, the draft, the scheduling, etc. But the salary cap was another measure, as it also came with unrestricted free agency,

that, you know, tightened the lines between these teams. Now, the irony of a league being designed for parity is that in the 21st century, we've had multiple dynasties. I mean, the Patriots have had two dynasties, and the chiefs have had a dynastic run as well. But it's a great point, Chase. It was definitely an advantage to the teams who had owners that were willing to spend for players that were stashed away on injured reserve for a year when they weren't necessarily injured, but teams were trying to develop those players. But keep them on their payroll so that they could eventually be on the actual roster.

Washington was one of those teams that did it very well. Now, I think that's a small reason why the Redskins under Joe Gibbs were super successful. Gibbs was, you know, for all of the reasons mentioned yesterday in the conversation that Tommy and I had, was just a great football coach, a great leader, a great culture guy, the whole thing. But yeah, it's a really, really good point. A couple of things real quickly before we get to Scott Turner. some news today in the NFL. First of all, Patrick Graham, remember he was the first defensive coordinator candidate interviewed by Washington.

He is now the Steelers defensive coordinator. So Mike McCarthy is the head coach. Jason Simmons, who is on Washington's defensive staff right now, is expected to join Patrick Graham's staff in Pittsburgh. So Washington will have, you know, at least 1,000. one spot for Durante Jones to fill on defense. Meantime, the Ravens named an offensive coordinator today. Declan Doyle, 29 years old, was actually the OC for Ben Johnson this year in Chicago. Now, of course, Ben Johnson called the plays, but Jesse Minter is the head coach,

and Declan Doyle is the offensive coordinator. and the reason I mentioned that is because I thought that would be a good spot for Cliff Kingsbury. Now, there are other opportunities for Kingsbury, but it won't be in Baltimore. Meantime, Brian Johnson on Washington staff, according to several sources, Brian Johnson is interviewing for Denver's open offensive coordinator position. Sean Peyton fired his offensive coordinator. after losing the AFC championship game with their second string quarterback, Jared Stidham. So Brian Johnson is interviewing for the Denver offensive coordinator job.

So if Brian Johnson leaves, I don't know that he'll get that job, but Brian Johnson probably felt passed over as a former offensive coordinator on the staff for David Blow. So there's always been a sense that he might leave. By the way, Queseidofa, the four-year general manager in Minnesota, fired. Man, the Vikings did not draft well at all in recent years with Adolfo Mensa as their GM. What a change in the NFL this year. Coaches, assistant coaches, OCs, D.C.'s front office. We've had a ton of turnover.

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This segment of the show brought to you by MyBooky if you want to bet on sports, even though there's no football this weekend. There's a lot of college basketball. There's a lot of NBA. There's a lot of hockey. There's a lot of tennis at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.ag or MyBooky.com. Use my promo code.

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I recommend that you should have two places to wager with. and MyBooky could be your second shop for a 50% cash bonus. MyBooky.com, mybooky.ag, promo code, DC Reload. Joining me right now, Scott Turner, offensive coordinator here from 2020 through 2022 under Ron Rivera. Of course, Scott's father is Norv. Scott's formative years, high school years spent right here in the DMV, He went to Oakton High School in Fairfax County.

Scott was in New York as the Jets Passing Game Coordinator this year under Aaron Glenn. He was in Vegas for a few years after leaving here before the 20-23 season. But his coaching resume just includes so much that maybe even all of you don't know. He spent some time with his father in places like Minnesota. Also in Carolina when Cam Newton was the quarterback, he was in Michigan with Jim Harbaugh. He was in Cleveland. He started at the University of Pittsburgh. You know, take this as a compliment, Scott,

because that's absolutely the way it's intended. But like a lot of coaches, you've just been grinding it out now, you know, for the last 20 years living in like nine or 10 different places. I always find that interesting in that profession, how many of you, you know, toil in so many different places and have to pick up and move every couple of years. What's it been like over the last two decades doing that?

Yeah, I mean, there's been a lot of us and downs. I mean, there's been a lot of challenging situations. You know, all of it's really been a learning experience for me. I've grown in this game and just grown, you know, as a person, you know, early on I wouldn't really care as much about the moving. But now that, you know, they have family and my kids are getting older, my son's 11 and my daughter's 9, you know, it makes them a little bit more difficult with them with the schools and they have friends and

connections that you have to deal with. So it's another, you know, it's another layer to the whole thing. Sure. You know, just, you know, we've had some, you know, some ups and downs. And, you know, I was saying to somebody earlier, you know, I've had eight consecutive years in the NFL where we've started three or more quarterbacks. And, you know, that makes a little bit, it makes a little difficult. And, you know, the three years in Washington, you know, we, you know, won the division,

when the division was down and we won the division that COVID year 7 and 9 and then you know, we were kind of right around 500 and we just couldn't get over the hump you know for whatever reason and you know just kind of had to deal with some of those you know rebuilding projects

and some of them you don't you haven't haven't got it got it done you know I want to get into the past let me just ask you about the current because you were on the jet staff and Aaron Glens essentially or the jets have cleared everything out are you going to coach somewhere in 2020 is that the plan?

Yeah, that's the plan. I mean, I was recently, you know, I was let go a week ago today. So, you know, again, it's part of the business. You know, you try not to take a personal. I was a little bit surprised by the move. But, again, it's what we signed up for. So I'm just kind of looking into, you know, the different possibilities as these different people put their staff together. And I'm seeing where, you know, where I could potentially fit in.

So, you know, I'm trying as much as hard as I can to get somewhere. and, you know, be a part of a team. So I want to start with this, and that is just kind of your overall thoughts about Washington. You know, your time here as the son of a head coach of the Redskins when Norv was here. Your dad was coaching the team as an offensive coordinator for the team growing up in this area, going to high school. You've had a life full of moments and probably a lot of emotions tied into this area and tied into this franchise.

When someone says, you know, Washington Redskins are in your case, also Washington football team, but when they say that, how do you describe the time that you've spent here? Yeah, I mean, I haven't made it a secret to anybody. I mean, that's my favorite area of the country.

I mean, it's very close to my heart. You know, that made it really disappointing to me just as far as how everything ended up going down. And myself, you know, I felt I put a lot of it all, myself too that I wasn't able to, you know, turn the corner and get it done because it means so much to me and the area and the people and, you know, you're trying to be successful for them and

for yourself as well. And, you know, we love living there. I lived in, I lived in Ashburn when I was coaching before that. You know, I lived in Oakton. I went to Oakton High School, but just northern Virginia, the D.C. area in general is very close to me. And, you know, I consider at home, My whole family is from California. And I was born in Southern California, but I moved to, you know, to Oakton when I was 11. And then I graduated high school there. And then I've been back, obviously, a couple times. And so whenever everyone's like, where are you from?

I always say, you know, I'm from Northern Virginia. So it's very near and dear to me. And I got a lot of, you know, pride in the area. How much of the Dallas years do you remember the super? Oh, it's a ton. I mean, I was eight until I was 11, so I remember all of it. You know, that was a great time for my family. You know, obviously for my dad, it's kind of where he made his name and had a lot of success and was able to, you know, get the Redskins head coaching job.

So, you know, that was, and we saw have so many people, you know, that were so close with, you know, Jimmy Johnson, Dave Wonstead, Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, you know, Emmett Smith, Darrell Johnson, just a lot of people that you see and you got, I mean, obviously, my dad has connection with them, but I do as well just because I knew him as a kid, and then you've seen them over the years. And that was such a positive time in all of those people's lives that it sticks with you. And it's so funny, I mean, my dad was a head coach at three different, for three different organizations, and we get more Dallas stuff when people come up to them, like when I'm with them in public than anywhere else, just be.

because of, you know, the two Super Bowls and all the success. You know, whether it was, whether it's Brad Johnson or Gus Farrat, Trent Green, I'm thinking about him. When I've had any of those guys on the show over the years, I just had Brad on the show recently, they just, they revere your father and the time that they got to spend with him. And I, you know, I know what Troy Aitman obviously thinks of your dad as well. but, you know, I think if there was a Hall of Fame for coordinators, and there is, I mean, coordinators can get into the Hall of Fame, but if there was a specific offensive coordinator Hall of Fame, your father would be in it, obviously. Yeah, well, no, I appreciate you saying that. I obviously agree.

You know, he had the, you know, the top five offense or number one offense in the league in, like, three different decades, which is, which is pretty, you know, pretty hard to do. You know, he called, we were joking, like, he called. plays in the NFL from 1991 to 2019 and only missed 2017 which is like that's that's some serious

longevity of being a being a play caller you know in the national football league so yeah I mean like Brad Johnson in 1999 which was a great you know a great team and they were number two in the league in offense and number one was the the greatest show on turf so there's so and that's what like

and that's what coaching's all about is like just the different players and different people that you're able to, you know, spend time with, you know, over the years. So give me a season that stands out and give me a game that's more memorable than any other during your dad's time here as a head coach. So the 1999 season for sure, you know, when my dad took over in 94, that was the first year of the salary cap. And, you know, the Redskins were very, they spent a lot of money. so they were older, but they also had a lot of, they were over the cap. So, you know, and they, you know, they had, all those players were still under contract.

So my dad kind of started off as the bad guy, not only with the players, but with the, in the area, because he was the one that had to release a lot of these guys. There were legendary players that had been, you know, been part of that 91 team, which is, you know, might be the best team of all time in the NFL. So, you know, and then because of that, like, because of getting rid of all these older players, you kind of kind of restart the franchise, it didn't start out great. You know, so, you know, they were able to, you know, he was building it up. And then in the 99, which is a six-sixth season, you know, kind of breaking through and going

11 and 5 and winning the, winning the NFC, and then being able to go to the playoffs, beating the Lions in the wildcard round. And then the game that sticks out to me the most, which is the Tampa game. And it's obviously a negative, but like, we played at Tampa this year. I've played at Tampa many times, and every single time I go there, I think, about being a junior in high school and standing on the sideline and watching that ball, you know, Dan Turk, you know, the ball roll back and not getting a chance, not getting a chance to kick that, you know, 51-yard or, you know, for the win and a chance to go to the NFC championship game.

And then also just, you know, being up 13-0 in the game, and I actually remember, it's crazy, I was 17 years old, but I remember standing next to Brad on the sideline, and it was like late in the third quarter, and they're up 13-0-0-0. You know, we were up, you know, the Redskins were up 13-0-and, and he was like, just one more quarter. You know what I mean? And then, you know, Mike All-Thought had a great run, and there was a sax fumbled that landed and worked done. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's just, you know, and unfortunately it didn't work out. But that's the game that, as far as from the being in Washington, and that's the game that, like, sticks in my head more than anything.

You know, the two games during the Snyder era, and it was the only two opportunities, really, to get deep into the playoffs. It was that game. It was also B. Mitch's final game. Brian had a kickoff return to start the second half for a touchdown, and then up 13-0. And the Warwick done play was kind of all time. And, yeah, just seeing that kick, you know, and Brett Conway getting ready to drill it for the win. And remember, Scott, Tampa went to St. Louis. the score was 11 to 6 in the NFC championship game.

Like you guys would have had a much better shot offensively. Yeah, Ricky Pro, and obviously they were very good on D.Campa was. And who knows what would have happened because I think some of the Redskins were beat up. Brad Johnson was beat up. Brad Johnson was beat up. Stephen Davis was beat up. So like how they, you know, again, what would have the health been like? But it would have been, it would have been fun to find out, you know.

No doubt. For sure. Yeah, in 2005, in Gibbs' second year back, they were at Seattle on the divisional round, saying it was the last time before last year that they made it to that round, and the time before that was the Tampa game that we were talking about. And Carlos Rogers had a pick six in his hands for a 10-0 lead in the second quarter, and he dropped it. So those were the only two moments during the Snyder years that we were even sniffing deep into the postseason.

But there were so many games from your, like that year, the 99th season had so many great games, including you remember the loss against Tampa, I do too. But the opener that year was the Rocket Ishmael game, up 3514. And here come, that was painful. But in all time, Skins Cowboys game. Absolutely. Yeah, it really, it really was. Yeah. No, it really was.

So let's talk about your time here, 2020. to 2022. You know, one of the things that I think gets lost during those very tumultuous years, you know, with COVID, you know, a coach with cancer, the team losing its name, all of the investigations into Snyder, etc, is that 2020 was a playoff season, albeit a seven and nine playoff season, but with you guys playing your best football at the end of the year, 2022 was nearly a playoff season. 2021, you guys had won four in a row. You beat the bucks with Brady during that stretch, and we're six and six heading into December before all of the COVID losses and, you know, games played on like Tuesday afternoons or whatever.

And I was curious just kind of going year by year, and I'll start with 2020. Did you guys ever think there was a chance in 2020 before the season started that Alex Smith would play? You know, there was always a chance. You know, we didn't, you know, we didn't anticipate it. I mean, we had traded for Kyle Allen. Obviously, like, we had, you know, there was such little practice time going into that year. So it's hard to, like, say, like, okay, we're going to create a quarterback competition. Like, you've got to pick a guy and get him ready to play.

So we, you know, we had decided, hey, Dwayne is going to be our guy. So we got Dwayne ready to go. Obviously, you know, it didn't work out. We went to Kyle. Kyle ends up breaking his leg. So then we went to Alex. And, you know, that was a, that was such a fun experience for me working with Alex. Obviously, he was limited because of the mobility and, you know, being able to drive the ball down the field.

But he's such a cerebral player. And we were able to kind of spread the field and just he could find completions. You know, we tried to manufacture a run game. But, again, we were such a young, we were such a young team. And, you know, the year before, you know, they weren't very good offensively. So we were, you know, and we weren't very good offensively in 2020, but we were trying to kind of build off of that. And Alex really did a great job, and he's the guy that really kind of got us going as well as the defense.

But Alex did a great job of managing games and not putting the defense in bad situations. And I had such a good, like, relationship. He knew what I was thinking as far as, you know, just, you know, where the ball wants to go. And if it doesn't look good. And the problem was as the year went on, like that, that leg, Like, when you, you know, he could play initially, but like, you know, week after week, and that's just the NFL in general. But, like, when you're coming off of that type of injury, you know, now it kind of wore down.

And he was able to play the game in Philly, the last game of the season where we, you know, we clinked the division. And then it just, he couldn't play in that playoff game. And everybody knows, you know, Taylor and Taylor gave him with a chance. And, I mean, we kind of had those guys on the ropes a little bit. But obviously, Tampa was a very good team and ended up winning the, win in the Super Bowl that year. Do you remember the first series that Alex Smith came in against the Rams? Do you remember what play I'm about to talk about?

Maybe. Where Aaron Donald jumped on his back? Yes. That was the first dropback, I think. Oh, well, I know. And that was like the worst case scenario. I mean, they're the number one defense of the league. Right.

And it's raining. So, like, you can't really grip the ball. We weren't able to run the ball because we couldn't block them. And it's like, so you're trying to get quick passing game, but they knew that. So, like, they're just sitting on everything, you know, and it's just like, that was one of the, that was one of the worst games in my career as far as it's, like, you look at your call sheet and you're like, I don't know, I don't know what the call here, you know, based on a situation. And then Alex is just kind of like getting back into it, you know, and I'm sure I can't even imagine,

like, the different emotions and what was going through his head at the time. But, you know, that was a, you know, and Kyle, that was, he'd only hurt his shoulders. and Kyle ended up coming back, and then he broke his leg against a giant after that. And then I think that experience of Alex playing, then he felt more comfortable because then he ended up throwing for 300 yards against the Giants in like three quarters, and then he threw for 300 of the next week against Detroit, where we lost, and we lost both those games, and then after that we kind of put together a little bit of a winning streak. Yeah, well, some of those games were really actually very close games.

I remember the going for two at the end in the Meadowlands against the Giants. That was with Kyle Allen at quarterback. That was with Kyle. Yeah. And then, you know, destroyed Dallas on Thanksgiving Day. And actually, I think I've talked about these teams a number of times on the show. But for all that the fans want to say about, you know, those three seasons in particular, you know, there was a big sort of stunning win each season.

That season at Pittsburgh, they were undefeated. It was a COVID reschedule. game on a Monday afternoon. Do you remember that game when you stop their perfect season? Was it a Monday or was it Tuesday? It was early Monday. I think you played the Eagles in 2021 on a Tuesday, but I think that game was Monday afternoon against Pittsburgh. I think, yeah. Yeah, I think, you're right. And then, yeah, that game was big. That was, you know, we had come off Thanksgiving, and then we, and then we beat Pittsburgh at Pittsburgh, and, you know, that

was big. And then obviously what you're going to say, 2021 with the Tampa and when that game and that was a lot of fun. And then the Philly Monday Night games, exactly. Exactly. Three games in which, you know, you guys were double-digit underdogs and two of those games on the road where nobody really gave you a chance. The playoff game against Tampa.

I've talked about this game many times. Our fans like to think that, you know, we were the closest to beating Tampa. And what I've always said is Tampa, literally, if Chris Godwin doesn't drop four passes, they would have had 600 plus yards of offense. With that said, offensively, you guys moved the ball up and down the field, and that was the game for Taylor Heineke. Going into that game, did you have any clue that you could get that kind of performance

out of Taylor Heineke? Yeah, I mean, I know it's like hindsight 2020, but like I had Taylor in Carolina. That was the third, yeah, I am in Minnesota, the undrathed free agent. Like, that's how we originally got him. out of Old Dominion, and he had them making our team, and then we had him in Carolina, and he just, like, he knew, he knew my system, and I knew, like, a fresh Taylor. Like, he's such a good athlete, and he's so tough that, like, a fresh Taylor where the other team doesn't really know exactly what he has to offer.

And then also, like, we had nothing to lose. So, like, that was one of my most fun games I've ever called, because he's kind of let it rip, know, and I always remind myself in the past, like, or even, you know, in other times, like, to just be more like that all the time because, you know, it's like, you know, again, we're playing Tom Brady, like, no one expects us to have a chance in this game. We're playing a quarterback that hasn't played all season or just played in limited role, you know, all season. He played a little against Carolina earlier that, you know, a few weeks before.

But, you know, just kind of let it rip. And I knew, like, what he had, I knew the talent, I knew the athleticism, and I knew that he could, you know, create some issues for the defense that way. and he came out, you know, he came out throwing it, and he's a fearless player, as you know,

from watching him, you know, all those starts in Washington. And so I did. I mean, and, you know, when you're a coach

and you prepare, like you always see the path to victory, even though it's not, it might be solid, but you always like, because you're, because you're selling it to the team and you're selling it to that.

So there was optimism that we could be successful moving the football. And then, and then we were, you know, and obviously a lot of it was, you know, our players making a lot, making a lot of plays in particular Taylor. All right. Let's take a quick break. I actually want to come back to Taylor Heineke a little bit

with you, but I want to talk about the other two seasons you were here in Washington, 2021 and 2022, and a bit more. We'll continue with Scott Turner after these words from a few of our sponsors. You get an opportunity and you haven't done it already. Rate and review this podcast. It's really big for us when we get ratings and reviews, especially on Apple and Spotify, both give you a chance to give the show up to five stars if you think the show deserves it. And Apple gives you a chance to write a quick review. You can write, you know, very quickly. Love the show, loved when Scott Turner was on the show with Kevin. Whatever you want to write, you can write and it doesn't have to be long, but those ratings and reviews really help us out, as does following the podcast.

hit the plus button, hit the follow button, especially on Apple and Spotify. That's big for us. We continue with former Skins offensive coordinator, Scott Turner. Let's go to the next season, 2021, because that four-game winning streak that got you to six and six, you guys were legit. You were running the hell out of the football during that stretch. I mean, Antonio Gibson, tell me about Antonio Gibson. What did you see from him? I'm. I mean, Antonio Gibson. I mean, Antonio Gibson. I Obviously, he's had some of the injuries in New England, and they've got good backs with Henderson and Stevenson, et cetera. But what did you think Antonio Gibson could be at the NFL level? You know, he's so big and fast, and I always felt like, you know,

we started him like basically right away. It was like a one-two punch with him and J.D. McKissick and the St. Martin Marlowe was our short-jointed back. But, like, I always felt like he needed to just play and have reps because he didn't have very many running back reps in college, but his talent and skill set was there. And then in 2021, he had been a thousand-yard rusher. There's some consistency issues with him that has kind of, you know,

I wouldn't say held him back with, like you said, some injuries, and then just a little bit of the consistency of making the right decision over and over and over again as a runner. But, you know, for him to be, you know, he ran for 1,000 yards in 2021. And, no, you're right. We had a good formula. Dallas came in, you know, and we were trying to catch them for the division, and they came in and kind of took it to us, and then we had a chance to come back, and we ended up losing that game by seven.

We had the stack fumble at the end of the game at home, and then that's when after that is kind of when the COVID bug really kind of hit us, and then we lost a few in a row and ended up winning the game last season again. I think 2022 is the best defensive team of those. three years. But I'm wondering if you guys don't have all of those COVID losses and, you know, I'm trying to think it was like, what's his face? You had to start Garrett Gilbert. I think it was at quarterback. I mean, it was a revolving door at quarterback. But did you think that going into that stretch, that may have been the best that you guys were during your three years here?

I don't know. I mean, that was really the problem was just the, just the consistency. I mean, in, in 2022, like you said, like, when we beat, when we beat Philly, you know, on that Monday night game and then, you know, and like you said, like, yeah, the defense, but also, like, if you remember that year, like, we came out the first couple games of the season in 2022, and we were like the first two weeks, like, we were lighting it up on offense. Jacksonville, yeah. Yeah, Jacksonville.

and then even at Detroit, we lost 36 to 28 or whatever. And, you know, I think we had 380 yards in the second half of that game. We started slow. But, like, and then we ran into, you know, we kind of ran into a buzzsaw with Philly's defense and Dallas's defense the next two weeks. And then, you know, really there was an effort from us to like, because our defense was struggling early in the season. And then we just changed the way we played offensively.

and we ended up leading the league in time of possession. And if you leave the league in time of possession, our defense played the fewest number of snaps of any team in the NFL. So hopefully they're playing pretty well. And it's a combination. They're getting people off the field, and then we're keeping the ball. You know what I mean? So the offense can't, you know, so their offense can't, you know,

score and make plays. And they were, that group was, you know, that group was playing well. And there was just a couple games. I mean, that Minnesota game where we have the pick six. that goes up 24 to 7, but then they call it back for, you know, they call it back for defensive pass interference on St. Juice, and then they go score, and then, you know, we end up losing that game. I mean, that's one you'd like to have back, obviously, you know, the Giants game on both Giants game, one tie, but then the one of the one of the ones that, like, I still, like,

wake up in the middle of night thinking about it from today. About the non-pass interference, about the Terry penalty? Yeah. No, it's not, it's not even that, like, because that kind of stuff happens. Like, I don't really ever blame the officials. I mean, I see stuff like that that bothers me. It's more so, like, on a personal level where it was like we have 412 yards of offense and we scored 12 points. It's like, you've got

to get more points. And because we, there's no doubt like in my mind that like we were a better team than the Giants that year. And all credit to them. And, you know, again, this is years ago, so it's not like I'm trying to like call anybody out. I just feel like I felt bad about Luda. I mean, we were up

10-0 in the game in New York. and ended up tying, you know what I mean? And then we had to buy and we played them at home and you lose, you know, you lose that game. And that really knocked us. I mean, if we win either one of those games, you know, we would have made the playoffs. And then they go to the playoffs and then they beat Minnesota. You know what I mean? And they're kind of like, you know, whatever.

So those are, you know, those are the ones that's tough. I think like 2020 was probably our best team. And that's why we were 8-8-1. That was our best record, too. and we had a couple games, like you said, that, you know, could have gone, really could have gone either way. And maybe like the statistic, but like both, because 2021 and 22, we were, our staff were about the same.

We were right in that 20th, 21st in the league in total offense. Our issues really came down, like, you know, we weren't good enough situation where there's third down in red zone, and that's where we could make it, we could make plays, like as far as our first and second down. We just need to stay on the field and then score more, you know? Yeah. I mean, I think about the Sunday night giant game, you know, when you guys were 7, 5, and 1, and this is a huge game. This is a playoff stakes game.

And it starts with Tibido on the sack fumble that he picks up and runs in. And that was a painful start. But to your point, I mean, you guys had nearly 400 yards of offense and only scored 12 points because it was 20 to 12, even though I think we should have scored at the end and had a chance to go for two. Yeah, it's over two points. They call the. I'll complain about the officiating, even though you won't. No, I mean, I don't, I'm not, it's not that I don't complain about it. It's just like that's not, that's not what keep, but understood.

Yeah, of course. You know, it keeps me up as like, you know, different playoff. The one is, the, the, the, Thibito one is so hard as we had a second down run. We went no huddle and Antonio bounced off the left side and they called a holding. And that got us back to second. And he ran, it was like a 15-yard game. So he, they call a holding, which is so it's a 35-yard swing. and then that's when I called like an empty pass

and then that's when you get the, you know, sack fumble. So that was obviously a huge swing in the game. And we battled back from it, but we just didn't get it done, you know. So the big game was New Year's Day against Cleveland at home. We're favored in that game. And the big decision is who's going to start a quarterback. So did you agree with the decision to start Carson once? You know, it's revisionist history or anything.

but I wanted to stay with Taylor. I felt like he was the, like it was his team at that point. I felt like the guys were rally around him. You know, Carson had come in at the end against San Francisco. Taylor was, you know, he had beat up just playing with his style play over the course of the season. But, you know, that's another thing I think of like, you know, that Ron wanted to do that. And I didn't like necessarily fight it as hard as I could have, but that wasn't something that I necessarily thought was what was best for our team. Nor did the team, right?

Yeah, I mean, I think you could just tell from people's body language. Tell me one thing about the end of that season, because it's a game that, you know, for a brief, you know, 12 months was a head scratcher for a lot of us. We go from not really wanting to play Sam Howe in the season finale to Taylor suggesting, at least according to reports, that Sam Hal should start the final game. He starts the final game. He was okay against the Cowboys. And all of the sudden, you weren't here for it, but he's like going to be the next Joe Montana heading into 2023. So how did that whole thing come about with he's not going to start? Then he ends up starting.

And then what were your impressions in the moment of Sam Howell? I mean, there's, yeah, I mean, I remembered a little bit differently. It was a conversation that we were going to have, like, we were going to play Sam and then we were going to like maybe start Taylor. And then we just didn't want to put the pressure. draw on him. Because the bottom line was like, we liked Sam all year, and we felt like he had a chance to be the starter of the next season. And it was like, do you really want him to go out there against the Dallas defense?

Because you're not really figuring anything out at that point. Like, everyone's like, oh, why don't we see how he is, it figured him out, like, just one week of preparation to be a starter. And so that was what the discussion was. And then it came down to, like, you know, okay, let's do it. You know what I mean? So then it was like, let's play them. So it wasn't like as much as like people changing their mind,

as much it was just like figuring out what our plan was going to be. You know what I mean? And I think that like, you know, Ron at times would just maybe share a little bit too much with the media. And so, again, I mean, you know, it is what it is. I'm just telling the truth. And so, and I think that's maybe how that came about. But Sam, and then like, and then like doubt turned the ball over a bunch. Sam's first ever passed, we went no huddle.

We ran the ball on the first play game, and his first pass with a touchdown pass to Terry, and he hit a couple of deep balls, and he's athletic and throws him up down the field. Again, like, I think Sam's a good player. I don't know what happened after I left, other than, like, he led the league in pass attempts, which I don't know if that's necessarily the best thing to do

with a guy that's a first year with a first year quarterback. Like, that's all I'll say about that. And then the other mystery to me as far as, like, the roster, because I know a lot's been said about the roster and different players and, you know, who's, you know, and them, oh, God, the Rivera roster was so bad. And there may be some truth to that. The one guy that is another mystery to me, and I think he's going to still have a very good career, is I don't know what happened with Johan, Doughton, after I left,

because he had seven touchdown for me when I was there, and he had such a good training camp as far as just being able to get him. I know he's a little or guy, but be able to get open and body control and hand-kept. and everything like that. And we were really excited about him in the future. You know, the next year was okay. And then obviously, you know, they traded them when the new regime came in. So that, I saw him before we played Philly in the preseason this year and gave him a big hug.

And, you know, I'm a big fan of his. So I don't know, like, again, I don't know what happened with that. And I don't really know what happened with Sam other than sometimes when you take that many hits and you go through a year like he did, you know, it can have a last thing. effect. It's really interesting stuff, and I appreciate the time, by the way. So real quickly, because during that era, you know that there were a lot of fans that were really into Taylor Heineke, thinking that he could be, you know, the team's future. So from an expert, an offensive coordinator in the NFL who coached Taylor Heineke, why isn't Taylor Heineke a starting caliber

quarterback in the NFL? So Taylor is like, I, I, I, I'm as close to him as probably any player I've ever coached. Like, I think the world of him, I think he's like the toughest, one of the toughest people I've ever been around mentally and physically, you know, obviously ups and downs his career. I mean, I think, and I don't feel bad saying any of this. I just think, like, physical limitations. And, like, if you have Taylor Heineke, and again, he's getting older now, you know, but, like, if you have Taylor Heineke for one game where his body is fresh,

and like he's going to be able to go out there and compete and not with everybody, but you understand him. Yes, he's going to make plays. He was a gamer. Total gamer. No, absolutely. But as like, you know, because of his frame, because of the way he plays and the hips he takes and his body wear down as the season goes on, you know, it takes away from that. It takes away from that

little bit of aggressive style. It takes away from his arm strength that already isn't like elite, you know what I mean? So I think that, I think that's the issue. But again, when he's played, he's played, he's been productive, you know, and he's had a great career for himself, and I'm proud of him for everything that he's done and overcome. Who was a player that you coached here that you didn't think would end up being a good player who turned out to be much better than you thought? That's a tough one.

I don't know. I can't. Well, the guy that, the guy that produced for us way more, and I didn't give him enough credit when I was here was Cam Sims. Like, we always kind of tried to find someone to beat him out. And then whenever he would play, like, he would always be productive, especially in 2020. Like, we had released him, and then we brought him back.

And then he ended up having, like, 500 yards receiving that year. And was a big part of, you know, us, like you said, playing our best towards the down the stretch. You know, so he's probably the guy that I probably didn't give enough credit to or we didn't give enough credit to as a coaching staff and personnel staff or whatever over our time there. You thought Diami had a chance to be a really good player,

didn't you? I did, and obviously he got a nice contract of Jacksonville this past year, and he had such a good training camp in 2021, and honestly, if he had a great rapport with Ryan Fitzpatrick, and if Ryan doesn't get hurt, I think Diomimi might have had a,

had a really good rookie year, and it would have taken off for him a little bit better. And then that's nothing, you know, and again, it's just, and then with Taylor game, and Taylor just going to freaking throw it to Terry, you know what I mean? And he threw it to Terry, and he had, you know, just a different, it just didn't have the same connection, you know, but like that, I think that, that had an effect on that. We really liked Deaami, obviously coming out. We liked them as a rookie. And then the next year when we got Jahan, and then Jahan was so productive for us.

You know what I mean? His first game, his first game, he has two touchdowns, you know, and wins us the game with a great catch at the end of Jacksonville. So I think that was just a more of a circumstance. I was so happy for Diami how well he played in the playoffs and then able to get the contract with Jacksonville. And so we played Jacksonville this year, so I saw him. Again, you're happy you have a for him because it was,

it was a tough, tough stretch, you know, it was kind of an up and down deal for him. All right, quick break back with Scott Turner, and I'll ask him about the team. here currently, including the quarterback. We'll do that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought you by Window Nation. How about 10% off just for Valentine's Day this month? That's just part of what Wind Donation is offering. They're also offering four free windows with every four purchased. Plus, you don't have to pay anything

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We continue with Scott Turner. I just want to ask you a few more. And I'll start with what's the first thing that pops into your mind when I say Jaden Daniels? Baller. Baller, yeah, for sure. I know you liked Jaden coming out. I also know that you liked Drake May a lot coming out. And there is a debate, Scott, among, you know, Skins fans and maybe even NFL fans to a certain degree with Drake May in the Super Bowl.

Did New England actually get it right? Or did Washington get it right? You know, between those two, it's pretty early, I would think, to kind of come up with an answer to that. But do you have an early opinion one way or the other? I mean, either of guys good. They're both really good players. I mean, obviously, Drake May had such a good year this year. Jane Daniel was unbelievable.

I mean, he covered up so much for that team the year before. And he just, you know, he had some injuries and he's going to, you know, his, and I don't think it was his play style. Like, you know, but, you know, part of that as you grow in the league is learning how to take care of yourself and what you can and can't do. And I think he's a good enough player. Like he has a great instinct. Like, he'll figure that out.

But, like, I mean, that's going to be the Drake Mae, Jane Daniels. People are going to be arguing about that on Dragon Sports Talk Radio for 15 years. What about Caleb Williams being a part of that debate? Yeah, big fan of his as well. I mean, you're talking about, I mean, what a great draft class that was, you know. Were you surprised that Dan Quinn moved on from Kingsbury and elevated David Blow? I don't know. I don't ever get surprised anymore, other than I was surprised that I got let go.

But no, it's just you never know what's going on inside of NFPA. building. Obviously, yeah, there was a little bit of a surprise, but I'm sure that, like, you know, Dan Quinn, you know, he's a great coach. And I know people that have been around David Blow that say how bright he is and how much of a great future he has, and I'm sure he's a great relationship with the quarterback,

and they obviously feel really confident about him or they wouldn't have made that move. I've heard you tell this story before, but I want you to tell my listeners about recruiting Stefan Diggs, when you were at the University of Pittsburgh. When I was a receiver coach at University of Pittsburgh, I went into Good Counsel High School, and they had a bunch of really good players.

They were at WCAC. I think they'd won the championship or finished second that year, whatever. But I sent down with Kevin McFadden, who's a security guard, and he's the head of security and he's kind of a legend in the high school area. And he was showing me the highlight tape in the year before. And I had already met all these kids in there, And they had a kid, Lou Young, that was going to Georgia Tech, who had been a senior.

So I hadn't met him because obviously he was graduating. It was in January. And, like, every third play on his highlight tape was number seven was making all these plays. And so I just assumed it was Lou Young. And then, like, 15 plays into the tape that number one makes a play. And he goes, oh, that's Lou. You know, he's going to George Tech. And I'm like, well, hold on a second.

Who's number seven then? You know what I mean? And he's like, oh, well, that's Diggs. He was like, I was like, Mac, like, you've introduced me to every single kid in this school. Like, I got to meet him. And he was like, well, Coach Malloy, Bob Malloy is another legendary high school coach. Of course. He said, he said, Coach Malloy doesn't want gigs talking in colleges.

You know, he's got to get his grades up because he had some academic issues. And I go, look, man, I'm not leaving here until I meet him. So he brought him down and I met him. and he didn't have any scholarship offers because they had kept the college coaches away from him, but I offered him a scholarship. And then I left, and Bob Moyard called me and was like, I'm trying to keep him humble. Why don't you do that?

I was like, coach, I couldn't not do that. Like, I mean, after what I just watched, like you, you, because he was playing all over the field, running back, receiver, you know, DB, blitzing. I mean, he did everything, Palmer Turner, kicker Turner. And, I mean, he looked exactly like he looked now, except he was a sophomore in high school. So, and he's got such a great personality, Stefanso.

Then I came back in spring recruiting, or I came back in January, I talked to him again. I've come back to spring recruiting. I probably broke some NCAA rules as far as how often I go back to that school. And he would, he'd be, you know, I come back in the afternoon because he would run track, and I'd walk around the track of him. I remember talking to him and, you know, really getting to know him. And I ended up leaving Pitt after that, you know, after that next season, which was his junior year. and then, you know, he ended up going to Maryland,

and, you know, he was, you know, he had 80 offers by the time his junior football season started. So I was just the first one. That was after his sophomore year. And then, you know, he ended up going to Maryland, and he had kind of an up and down career. He had a great freshman year. And he was always productive, but he, when he was on the field, but he had some injuries. Injuries. Yeah.

Yeah. And then I, at the time he was coming out, I was the Vikings. And I just, I just remember, like, telling everybody, anyone that would listen, like, we got to get this guy. Like, we got to get this guy on a team. And everyone was like, well, I don't know. You know, the coaches say he could be a little moody. And, you know, I mean, because he's such a competitive emotional player.

But it's all geared towards wanting to win. And I was like, I promise you guys. So he ends up dropping. And we've got, you know, two picks in the fifth round. And I get called in the draft room. I'm the quarterback coach. And I'm like, well, why are they calling me in here? And Zimmer, who can be a little gruff, you know, he was like, hey, he's like,

Scott, if we draft this guy, you're going to make sure that you're going to make sure that he does the right things. And, you know, he doesn't screw this up. As a coach, just get him on our team. You know what I mean? Like, just get him here. And he came in and he hit the ground running. And obviously, the rest of history of the Minnesota miracle and all the different things he was able to do there. And then obviously in his career and, you know, when he won the, you go into the story, and I've seen him over the course of years and he's always just so grateful to me. And he always says, you know, how much, you know, thanks for always believing in me. And, you know, and it really means a lot. And, you know, I know, he's had his issues,

but he's a guy that I always root for, and I'm just really excited for him to go to the Super Bowl, especially just with what he's dealt with on the field with going to different teams, hurting his knee, kind of people thinking that he was done, and to have the year he's had this year, and I'm happy for him,

and I hope that he can finish it off. That's pretty wild. The first person to offer Stefan Diggs a scholarship with Scott Turner when he was at Pitt, and then he convinced Mike Zimmer, company at Minnesota to draft Stefan Diggs in the fifth round. You know, I was having a conversation with a guy who's a friend of mine who was on Bob Maloy's staff at the time.

We were having a conversation about the greatest high school football players. This is such a great basketball area, as you know, and has produced so many, you know, phenomenal D1 and NBA players in hoops. But it's a good football area, too. And I said to him, I said, is Caleb Williams the best player to come out of this area? and he said, it's not even close. It's Diggs. And I said, really, he said, Diggs was literally

uncheckable no matter where you put him on the football field as a high school football player. Yeah, he was a phenomenal player. And that was a sophomore year. And then, you know, his junior year, like, I remember my wife, I was, my wife at the time, like they always played those games on ESPN2, like a week before, like, college football.

You know what I mean? And they were playing St. X in Cincinnati and Diggs. And I remember, like, making her watch it. She's like, we have to watch a high school football. We were dating at the time. I'm like, I got to watch this kid. And he was like unbelievable. I mean, he scored on defense.

He had a sack. Like he got a sack, bumble, like big comp return, you know, and they beat them. Good comp will beat him, you know, that big St. X, which is where, you know, Luke Keeley went. I'm not at that time, but, you know, that's the high school he went to. And he, I mean, he was, you know, unreal there. And, yeah, he could just, he could do it all. Like I said, he really looked.

He was a little lean. but he looked about the same as he does now. And yeah, he was, he was a phenomenal, phenomenal high school football. Well, the other thing at Maryland, too, is he was a lethal returner. I mean, just, you know, unbelievable. All right, tell me about your dad and sister's podcast. Okay, so it's called the family business with Norv and Stephanie Turner. It's on, you know, it's on YouTube.

And then if you want to watch it, and then it's on, you know, any of the podcast services, Spotify, you know, Apple, whatever. So, but it's good. And they've, I think they've had. I think I was the 19th episode. They've had guests. You were the 19th episode. Well, I was coaching all year.

Oh, right, right, right. Well, I know he had Cam on and he had Thielen on. He's had some really good guests. Yeah. Cam, Phillip Rivers, Troy Eichmann. Yeah, they got a lot of really good guests. And they, you know, just talking about football. And a lot of it, some of it, some of it's stories from the past,

some of it just talking about what's happening in the games, like on the episode I was on. They're all about an hour. and like we talked about the playoff games, the championship games, and then we kind of talked about the Super Bowl a little bit. But, but yeah, we, it's good.

It's really good. And just, you know, it's just kind of getting going. We're just trying to get some traction. And, you know, I put it on my Twitter page at Scott Turner and then just trying to see,

I don't have a ton of followers. I have like 10,000. But just trying to see if I can get some more, get some more people, you know, drawn to it and try to see if they can get some more viewers and listeners because they do a really good, they do a really good job with it. You know, about your father, he's always been reluctant, I think, from afar, you can correct me if I'm wrong. But I think your father's always been reluctant to talk about his time here, especially at the end after Snyder bought the team. Has he spent any time talking about the Washington teams, or is he still hesitant to do that?

they haven't talked much about it i think no they did so they so they told so they have brad johnson on and he told a story about dan uh going out and trying to kick field goals in his dress shoes after they had missed like a 35 yard field on the field like and it's i mean i you got to watch it on the podcast to see it it's in the brad johnson episode because they do a better job telling it but like it's just a classic it's a classic deal and um so he did talk about that a little bit um had Trent Green on, so Trent really wasn't there for the Dan years. The Brad Johnson one is where they really, you know, they kind of talked about it. But not a ton, and I don't, but I don't think he is reluctant anymore, you know,

especially now that Dan, you know, doesn't own the team anymore. Right. You know, and, you know, and Dan, like, again, I know the issues. Obviously, he was part of the reason probably I got fired, but also, like, he hired me, and, you know, I was able to, you know, gave me a nice contract. when I was there and I worked there for three years. So it's not, and it's not like, to me, he wasn't all bad to me. You know what I mean?

Like there were some decisions that were made that I'm talking about just how he treated me. I know there's some other things and I'm not defending him. I don't want anyone to think that. But he, you know, there were some decisions that were made football-wise. And it's, it's all, it's unfortunately, it's too common in the, in the league, as far as people, you know, making decisions for the wrong reasons. and all that does is spiral you in a bad direction, you know. And I think, you know, you got to have a plan and you got to stick with it.

And I think too many times they let the results dictate decision-making. And I think that's where teams get in trouble. And it's not just a Dan Snyder problem, but he obviously had that problem. You know, your dad in Oakland and San Diego, it was undefeated in his games against Washington. I'm assuming you know that because it sounds like you've got a phenomenal memory of those days. but the game in 2005 was actually a devastating loss at FedEx when Oakland came in and beat us 16 to, like 16 to 10 or something like that. You knew that, right? No, I, oh, I knew we were undefeated, and then I, and then I, we were like as a family, we were undefeated.

And then in 2018, we came to, when we were Carolina, we came to FedEx and we got down 17-0. and we came back and we had a chance to throw the ball on the end zone and the end of the game to win, and we didn't. We got stopped on fourth down, but that was the first game that we had lost to Washington. And then obviously I went to work for Washington, so it was a different situation after that. But no, I was very, very well aware of that stat.

You know, you just reminded me. I've just always been, and my listeners know this, the biggest Phillip Rivers fan. I think he's a Hall of Fame quarterback. and it was your father's team in which he went to Foxborough on a torn ACL and played in the aFC championship game. You know, after you guys had gone to Indy, I think it was Indy in the divisional round and upset the Colts and Peyton Manning.

And then he was on a torn ACL playing in that championship game, right? Yeah, that was the 2007 season. So those playoff games took place in 2008, but that was undefeated Patriots team. Then have losing the Giants in the league. But yeah, those were, that was a hell of a run because the Chargers hadn't won a playoff came since 94, and they beat the Titans at home, and then upset Indy. Darren Sproul had a phenomenal game in that game, and then, like you said, Philip played on the torn knee, and weren't able to get it done.

There was actually Mike Rable leg-wipped Philip, and he threw an intercept to the Fontes-Sammondon in the fourth quarter, and then they were able to make the two-score game, but they didn't call the penalty. You know what I mean? Like, it was a clear day, you know, but, you know, again, we're not complaining about officials, so we're not going to do that. Yeah, yeah, no, no. But I mean, your father probably has a great year. Your dad, I'm sure, has great fondness for Philip Rivers and vice versa.

Oh, yeah, yeah, loves them. Love them. Shane's like, is one of my best friends. We play college football all together. So, Shane and Phillips, that was so much fun to watch. Oh, my God, so much fun. And it was, like, it was awesome. I mean, you know, obviously they weren't able to win the games.

But, like, they almost beat Seattle, who's in the freaking Super Bowl, the game. Yeah. What was the game? They had a kick. Oh, and then they came out fire in San Francisco, but they just couldn't stop them on defense. But those first couple drives watching that game in my office was like, I mean, that was as fun as it gets, you know, on that one. Well, you know, this year it was interesting about this season. You know, when Philip Rivers came back, they almost beat Seattle on the road.

They had a field goal. I wish they had just gotten a few more yards in that final drive, but whatever, because I was rooting so hard for him. but also this year, it's just these masterful kind of veteran performances where they're in complete control. You saw it with Aaron Rogers a couple of times this year. You saw it with Flacco a couple of times. That Thursday night game, you probably were preparing for your next game. But there was a game between the Steelers and Bengals this year on Thursday night that was just lights out quarterbacking with two guys in their 40s. It was unbelievable to watch.

Yeah, and those, and it's hard to watch a Thursday night game. It's the Monday night because you're kind of doing their own thing. That's the ones you're able to watch anymore. But I do know what game we're talking about. All right. I guess I'll end with this. Who do you like in the Super Bowl? You know, like I said, I'm going to be rooting for Stefan.

I just think the Seahawks are tough, you know, as far as just offense, defense, special teams. I think the Patriots, you know, are a really good team as well. and they've just been a little bit not quite as consistent offensively as Seattle, especially in the play. Now, again, I'm going to take, I'll take with a grain of salt because the last two weeks, they played the two best defense in the NFL. So who you play has a little bit to do with that. But Seattle's very good on defense also.

The Patriots, we played them twice this year, and like the second time we played them, they were so much better defensively than the first time. And then that just continued as I go. I think it's going to be a close game. Like I said, I would love to see. Stefan and I worked for Josh McDaniels in Vegas and the way things there for him. You know, he's a good friend and I'd love to see him, you know, go get another ring. I just think Seattle is probably a little bit too much for him.

So again, with my heart, I'm going to the Patriots, but with the way I see the game playing out, I think Seattle's going to get done. At Scott Turner on X, and Scott's father, Norv and his sister's podcast is called The Family Business. So you can get that anywhere you get a podcast, the family business with Norv and Stephanie Turner. I'm sure it's a phenomenal listen, especially for the fan bases that had Norv in their town. And we had them here for many years in the 90s. I enjoyed this. Hope you're well, and let's do it again soon.

No, it was a lot of fun. Scott Turner, everybody. I enjoyed that. Hopefully you did as well. We'll do it again somewhere down the road, I'm sure, and covered some of the things that maybe we didn't cover. But it was nearly an hour with Scott, and I appreciate the time that he gave me. All right, that is it for today, back on Monday.