The Kevin Sheehan Show - Scott Turner + Trade Back

Episode Date: April 17, 2026

Kevin opened answering a uniform email followed by Kevin's hope that the team can trade back in next week's NFL Draft. Former Washington Offensive Coordinator Scott Turner joined the show to talk about some of the drafts he was involved in here in DC along with his thoughts on next week's draft. Kevin finished up with his NBA Playoff picks.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Our listeners get the Harry’s Plus Trial Set for only $10 at https://www.Harrys.com/[INSERT CODE]  #Harryspod For all your garden needs: fastgrowingtrees.com/sheehan Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. He is Kevin. Scott Turner's going to join me on the show today. We'll talk about some of the drafts that he was involved in here in Washington when he was the offensive coordinator from 2020 through 2022. And we'll get Scott to give his thoughts on this year's draft as well.

Window Nation is the presenting sponsor of this show, 86690 Nation. Window Nation.com if you need new windows. This from Denny in Gaithersburg to open up the show. Trigger alert, uniform talk. That's not what he wrote. That was my ad before I read the following from Denny in Gatorsburg. Kevin, I totally disagree with you on the uniforms. It's a small step and unsatisfying.

I don't buy that they can't do more. The logo is totally safe and does fit with the current team name. I'd like Harris to show bigger stones and tell the league to pound sand on the name, but if he won't do that, it takes no stones to bring back the old logo. The spear through the black alt helmet is half-assed and is throwing the fan base a weak sauce bone. you, as in me, need to be a bigger voice for all of us. Denny, I hate the name, dude. I am a voice on this as much as I can be.

I hate the name. I'm one of those that doesn't have, like you, the same emotional attachment to the team that I used to have. You know, I've admitted this before that, you know, it was already, you know, a lot less emotion towards the team before the name was lost, you know, because of Dan Snyder's ownership, you know, his reign of terror. But the name change and then the absolutely embarrassing and pitiful rebrand in 2022 was major blunt force, you know, in addition to the 20 some years of Snyder.

And yeah, I mean, I haven't felt. felt the same way. I haven't. But I also know where they are on the name issue. And they can't go back to Redskins. They can't. And anything else from their standpoint in terms of the name would just be, you know, as problematic as the current name, the commanders. I think they took the step that they could take, changing the uniforms and the branding around the team. And while yes, it was an obvious step from a business standpoint. It was necessary, but they still took it. And I think they got it right for the most part. I mean, I said that with Tommy yesterday. I like what they did. And I have a feeling that I'm going to feel differently based on seeing a team that resembles my team on the

field next year. You know, the three games in which they wore the championship era uniforms, keep in mind, the team was already bad. They got blown out in two of those three games. I guess the Dallas game wasn't a total blowout. The Denver game was close. The Seattle game was a one-sided beat down. But I didn't get as much out of that experience as I think I'm going to next year, knowing that they are the primary uniforms and the team's going to look like the team that I rooted for. But look, on the logo, Denny, you're not wrong. It shouldn't be that. hard. But again, I said this yesterday, and I've said it before, I don't think it's dead. Mark Klaus, the team president, said, you know, about the spear through the black alt helmet.

And I wish the spear were through the, you know, regular primary helmets, which just are the W right now. But he said the other day, the spear is just a great device that was part of the heritage of the team and can also live in this ecosystem that we've been building around defining a commander, closed quote. So I think the issue isn't that they haven't thought about the logo. They have. Obviously, they've been pushed to think about it by Ryan Wetzel, the grandson of Blackie Wetzel, the creator of it, along with various people in Congress.

But I think they, and I don't think they've been afraid to do something about it. I just think it's been more about creating a link between that logo and the commander's name, which they're intent on sticking with, because it's not necessarily natural to assume Native American imagery with commanders. But that's why he said that we're trying to create where the spear or things like the spear, maybe the old logo, can live in this ecosystem that we're building around defining a commander. and maybe the definition, while not natural now, could evolve into a definition of our commander definition is a commander of a Native American tribe. Hence, I don't think that the old logo is dead.

All right, there you go. Back to normal talk, no more uniform talk or brand talk or name talk. This from Will. Will writes, Kevin, you have a short memory and sometimes, it hurts you. You were the reason I started watching Jeremiah Love. You loved him as an R.B. And now you don't? What happened? Somebody else mentioned this to me. I was somewhere not that long ago. And they said, you loved love. And now you don't seem to love him. Look, I loved him as a college running back. And I did talk about Jeremiah Love occasionally as a great college. running back at Notre Dame. And I still like him a lot. I still do. And thinking of him as a pro running back, I think he's going to be a really good running back at the pro level. I just don't like him at seven. That's all. I want generational at seven for that position in particular. And I

don't see him as that. Doesn't mean that I don't like him. It doesn't mean that I don't think he's a great back. Like I think Jonathan Taylor is a a great back, but I don't think he's generational. I see him as really good. Again, Josh Jacobs with more speed, but not Hall of Fame. Speaking of the draft, one week from today, we will know what they did on the previous Thursday night first round. Here's what I want after lots of thought last night.

I want a tradeback. If David Bailey's there at seven, I want them to take Bailey. I'd even be okay with them selecting Ruben Bain if they were okay with the short arms and any of the other stuff because I think Ruben Bain was an absolute dominant college player. And I think the floor on him is so, so high. I think the floor on him and on downs in particular really, really high. I just, Ruben Bain was one of my favorite college players this past season.

If they don't take Bain, I'll be okay with it because their analytics people will say, you know, the arms were too short, sorry. But I want to trade back, assuming that Bailey's not going to be there and if they decide not to take Bain. I just think that that's the best overall in this upcoming draft where the number of true blue chip players might be less than 10. A lot of draft people think it's the fewest in recent memory. and I don't want them to take, you know, Jeremiah Love at 7. I don't even want them, even though I love the player, to take Carnell Tate at 7. I'd be okay with Stiles at 7, but I think for overall positional value, the idea that this is a draft short on true A-plus blue chip players,

I'd love to be talking a week from today about a tradeback to the middle of the first round with the Jets or the Dolphins or the Dolphins would be, what, four spots away, where they picked up a second or they picked up a third and a fourth or something like that. And then they added, you know, like a Cooper Jr. from Indiana. I love Cooper Jr. I like Tate the most, but I love Cooper Jr. I love Denzel Boston. I like Peter Woods a lot.

I did a lot of draft prep last night for whatever it's worth, kind of laughable, because it'll be mostly wrong. I like Concepcion from A&M, not in the middle portion of the first round. There are players that if they traded back and ended, I like Mesidor. I mean, Mesodore from Miami, the issue with him is age, he's 25.

If he were 22, he might be a top 6, 7, 8 pick. He's that good. He played on the opposite side of Bain. I like Lemon. I like Branch. That's later. Yeah, I think that they could get a really, really good player and maybe a player that fills a need and pick up, you know, picks for later on in the draft where there are some other really good players.

Look, the bottom line is out of the top 10, three are going to be, you know, true blue chip players. The other seven likely won't be. And so your odds are against finding that generational talent. I love Bailey. I wouldn't pass on him. I think he's a scare and offense kind of pass rusher. I really do. And I love Bain.

And look, I would understand styles. Love and Tate. I love Tate as a player. Don't get me wrong. But neither one of those two at seven. All right. Big Night for the Wizards real quickly. this play-in night tonight.

If the Warriors win, the Sons are in the lottery, and the Wizards have a pick swap with the Sons. So keep that in mind. What could also help is Charlotte beating Orlando, because if Orlando loses and the Sons lose, the Wizards' chances increase overall of a top four pick. But that pick swap with the Sons is huge. Root for the Warriors tonight,

if you are a Wizards fan. And if you are a Wizards fan or not a Wizards fan, read Tommy's column today on the Wizards. It's laugh out loud, hysterical. Scott Turner next after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, your life has become easier thanks to your phone, which has become a supercomputer, your car parks itself and your headphones cancel noise like magic.

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Scott Turner is here. Scott joined me on the show just before the Super Bowl a few months back. You guys really enjoyed it. I did too. It was a really fun conversation going down memory lane for much of it. Scott, of course, the former offensive coordinator here during Ron Rivera's years. He was the OC in 2020, 2021, and 2022. And as all of you know, Scott grew up in the area in northern Virginia during the years that his father, Norv, was the head coach of the skins in the 90s.

Scott's into this draft right now for the first time as kind of a media person. You can follow Scott on X at Scott Turner. I want to start with this. It's something that I talk about a lot, you know, sometimes with guests, sometimes with callers or sometimes by myself. But the draft, Scott, is an American sports obsession. It's actually without debate the most popular sports event that isn't an actual game. Like nothing comes close to the draft.

The truth is that a lot of games in different sports, NHL, Major League Baseball, and even the NBA playoffs, I mean, sometimes those games don't even do the television rating number that the draft will get. next Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. And yet, as obsessed as we all are with the draft, it's the thing that we as fans know the least about, in part because the teams themselves, the GMs, the front offices,

the people to get paid millions to do this, they get it wrong, two-thirds of the time, on average. And I'm wondering, because you've been with so many teams over the years and you've gotten a sense of, you know, this particular time of year. Do teams kind of acknowledge inside their own buildings what a crapshoot this draft is? It's important, but do they acknowledge and do they know that, hey, man, if we hit on, you know, 38, 39, 40%, it's going to be a really successful draft.

You know, there's not a lot of talk about that inside the building. I think a lot of guys, you know, obviously people have egos. and so everyone thinks that, you know, they're going to trust their evaluation. And I think that's all you can do. I mean, there are so many variables involved, you know, as far as, like, the player, you know, how the player is going to be a right fit, is it going to be right fit for him? I know, you know, it's been talked about a lot, you know, how next or sometimes organizations, you know, don't do well by the player.

But a lot of times the player, like, they can't adjust to taking that next step, whatever their game doesn't develop. It's hard. You know, it's hard. not everyone is supposed to be an NFL football player. And, you know, I think as an evaluator, when you're getting ready to draft somebody, you do your best to try to, you know, make sure that person is going to be a fit for your organization, your team.

And sometimes it doesn't work out, you know, but I don't think it's something that's discussed, like, you know. Yeah, you wouldn't go into it with a defeatist attitude, like an observer like I can. But the bottom line is, historically, this is, you know, not even a corner. point flip. I mean, it's much less than that in terms of the odds of actually being successful with all of these picks. No, absolutely. And obviously, the later it gets, the later the round, it gets in the draft, the harder it is, you know, or the lower the success rate, I should say, is for players, you know,

to have careers or to have impacts on NFL teams. But, no, I think that it's a, I think that it's a it's hard. It's definitely difficult. And, you know, that's why you see some teams that'll trade down and they'll collect a lot of picks because it's more at bat. So, yeah, later in the draft, your odds of that player being a successful player are lower, but if you have two or three of those picks as opposed to one, then you're hoping that you end up hitting on one of those players. And you definitely see certain front offices that have that mindset and strategy. Yeah, no doubt. I mean, if you're going to hit on, just call it one out of three. It's better to hit on four out of 12 than it is two out of six because you get

four contributing players rather than two. So I think everybody understands that math. You know, you shared this story about the recruitment of Stefan Diggs when you were at Pitt and how you became a really good friend and have stayed friends with Stefan Diggs over the years and how you were called in to, if my memory serves me correctly, you were called into the minister. Soda draft room. And you're like, what am I getting called into this draft room for? And it was for Diggs and for your opinion on Diggs because you knew him so well. What's the most involved in a draft you've ever been?

Oh, I think definitely my time in Washington as the office coordinator. I mean, that's the most involved I've ever been. Just because, you know, I'm evaluating really every offensive player that we have on our board and then really dig it into some of the guys once you kind of narrow it down to the guys that UC is targeted in different rounds. And, you know, Ron asked my opinion, not that it was always the guy that I necessarily wanted,

but I was definitely involved in all of that with our scouting staff as well as the position coaches there. And then, like, you know, as a position coach, like in, you know, when I was in 2014, I was in, Minnesota. We drafted Teddy Bridgewater in the first round. I was a quarterback coach. So, like, I was very involved there just because, you know, we were going to draft the quarterback. So we went and looked at a bunch of different guys and ended up drafting Teddy. So that was another time. But, you know, you're, yeah, I mean, I was very, very involved in the

three years here in Washington. By the way, just out of curiosity that, that Bridgewater draft was correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was the Johnny Mansell draft, too. Yeah, there was a lot of guys that you're like Blake Bordell, Johnny Mansell, Teddy, Derek Carr, Jimmy Garoppolo. So there was a lot of different quarterback that we went and looked at during that time period. What do you remember about what you thought of Mansell? Because he was definitely a polarizing prospect. No, for sure. And a lot of the stuff, you know, there was the rumblings about, you know, and it's been documented, obviously, the, you know, the substance abuse or the partying and everything. And it's not like that people didn't know.

I don't think really teams knew necessarily the extent of that. You know, we, there was a little bit of love for him in the building in Minnesota, and we saw him as a playmaker. And then obviously Cleveland, you know, he dropped a little bit, and Cleveland traded up and drafted him. But, no, there was deficit of intrigue as far as just his ability to make plays. and we had some question marks, obviously, with the off the field, and then just, like, you know, how are you going to be on a day-to-day basis?

But, you know, that was definitely, there was a lot of discussions about that. Me and my dad were actually just talking about when we were at his pro day, and, you know, George Bush, senior and Barbara were there with their two dogs in Secret Service. And it was just, I mean, it was an absolute, like, you can't make it up. It was crazy witnessing that whole experience. You know, your dad, when he got here, and you're going to remember this, you were a young kid at the time. But the very first draft was when Washington had number three overall and desperately needed a quarterback.

And the conversation was between Heath Schuller and Trent Dilfer. I'll get to Gus Ferrat here in a moment. but just in talking when you mentioned your dad, that was a tough choice. Do you remember how it all went down? Charlie Casserly was the general manager, but your father had come in and he was a quarterback guru and he had just been the offensive coordinator of a multi-time Super Bowl championship team in Dallas with Troy Aikman, who still swears to this day that your dad's the greatest you know, impact person on his professional life. So what do you remember about that 94 draft,

Schuller and Dilfer? So, you know, I was 11 years old, so I wasn't necessarily that, like, clued into everything. Obviously, but you've heard the stories. Oh, of course. Yeah, of course. And my family, we had just moved to, you know, Northern Virginia from, from Texas. And then, yeah, that was a big deal. and having a third pick in the draft, and obviously, you know, my dad taken over and the quarterback, and, you know, they picked Heath and really, like, I mean, obviously Trent ends up having a better career, but, you know, he had some issues along the way as well. I don't know if there was a slam dunk, and with either of those, and that's what you're talking about. I mean, there was a lot of work that was done on Heath, and, you know, obviously,

what really good college player, and it just didn't translate. It didn't translate for him, you know. And that's just, you know, one of those things that, like you're saying, and, and a lot of times, like, the team that gets, that picks them, and this happens with any, like, quote-unquote bust player, like, the team that picks them. But, like, if the, and using this example, if the Redkins didn't pick Keith Schiller at number three, then someone would have picked him in number four. It was like, yeah, of course. Yeah. At the high, so it's, you know, a lot of times it's not the failing of the team. It's just, you know, it just, you know, it just doesn't translate to it.

the next level. Do you, I mean, you're going to remember this because I'm pretty sure we may have talked about this last time. Maybe I'm thinking of something else. But do you remember who the starting quarterback was for the first game in your dad's head coaching career in Washington? Because it wasn't Heath Shuler. Yeah, it was John Free.

Exactly. So, um, so Freeze ends up starting games. Heath gets the opportunity. And then as it turns out, you know, something that would have been contrary. in the years that followed, you know, taking another quarterback, even though Gus was picked in the seventh round. But, you know, when Mike Shanahan picked Kirk Cousins in the fourth round after they had picked RG3 at number two overall, I mean, there was a lot of eye rolling. There was a lot of what's he doing? Well, your father did it. And by the way, they did it in Dallas with the compensatory draft or the what did they call that thing, you know, that was in between the direction? The supplemental. Supplement. Thank you.

With the quarterback situation there after they had drafted Troy Aitman. But what do you remember about Gus Ferrat and when your dad legitimately felt like, okay, well, he's actually the best one that we have? Yeah, I was actually just thinking about that the other day because it wasn't that year. And then, I mean, that year, Gus ended up starting. He got the first win. At Indianapolis, I remember that. It was his first start.

Yeah. Yeah, and then Heath played again. And then the next year, you know, Heath was the quarterback, and that's when, you know, I think there were six and ten, but they beat Dallas twice who ended up playing the Super Bowl that year. And then I think it was going into the 96th year when it was truly the quarterback competition between, between Gus and Heath and Gus ended up, you know, winning that competition.

And, yeah, that was a big deal. And it didn't, you know, it didn't seem like it. at the time, I think they were just getting a third quarterback. It was going to be a long-term backup. But, you know, again, like this, like this league tends to do, you know, it's full of surprises. You don't know how things are going to work out. And obviously, Gus had the end up having a very good, you know, very good career, start for multiple teams.

Yeah, really nice guy, too. I've had him on the show a couple of times, and he's got a great memory of his days in Washington. By the way, you mentioned that season in 95, Dallas won the Super Bowl, Washington beat Dallas twice. The second time they beat him, Scott, was in Dallas late in the season as a 17-point underdog. It's the biggest underdog upset in the history of Redskins Cowboys. And I think it was like, I don't think if I remember it correctly, like Heath had a great day or anything. But at least it was like, okay, well, maybe he'll turn out.

okay. Well, he didn't, obviously. Yeah, no. And took his act to Congress there for a few years in the state of North Carolina. All right, so when you were here, the three drafts that you were a part of is the offensive coordinator.

Give me the player that you felt strongly about that the team picked, whether he worked out or not, and then the one that you felt strongly about that the team didn't pick. Um, okay. Well, so that first year, um, that first year in 2020, like we, you know, we had the, um, we had the second

pick in the draft and we drive to Chase, and that was pretty much, you know what I mean, like there wasn't, I mean, Joe Burrow was the first thing in the draft, you know, we were going to pick Chase second, you know, that, yeah, that was interesting year because it was the COVID year, so we were all doing our pre-draft meetings over Zoom, you know, kind of everyone was on their own watching, watching, watch it, film. Getting ready for the draft, everything like that. I liked Antonio Gibson.

I was a big fan of his. I was pushing hard for him, and we ended up drafting him. So that would be one that, and again, like, worked out or not. I mean, he was the early third round. I was the second pick of the third round. End up being a thousand-yard rush and a pretty productive player. So as a third round pick, I would think that, you know, I think that there were some things that, for whatever reason, like, you know, he just couldn't take that.

Because I think he really has a lot of ability. I know he's, I don't know who he signed with him. He's recovering from the knee injury and the Patriots released him. But, you know, just very dynamic player. And that's what intrigued me with him was his size, was obviously a running back build. But he played mostly receiver ability to catch the ball. And, you know, you saw the production that he's had over different points of his career. And then I'm trying to think somebody that...

That you really liked that the team didn't take, whether he worked out or not. Yeah, that's where... Yeah, that's what I'm trying to... Didn't you really like Elijah Moore? I did. Yeah, I did like Elijah Moore. And it was just that funky area where it was... We picked Jamie Davis. Right.

And Elijah Moore was, you know, it was like a little early to pick him at that point. And I know that our defensive, you know, coaches really like Jamon and ended up drafting him there in that spot. And I was a big, I was a big fan of Jahan, Dotson, that we, you know, we traded back and we got him in 2022. And again, like, I know it didn't necessarily work out. I mean, when I was there, he caught seven touchdowns for me. missed five games as a rookie, and I'm not, I'm not sure. I still think he's got a chance to have a really good career. I'm not sure what happened after I left as far as, you know, with his career and the new regime and everything like that. But I was a fan of his draft, and then I was

a fan of his the whole year. You know, we had him. My one year in Washington. You know, I really liked the John Dotson selection, too. I remember really being a fan of Kyle Hamilton. Look, most of the things I throw out there are wrong, but that one, I loved. You know, it's funny about Jahan Dotson. One of the reasons I loved him is he literally, Penn State graduation, my son was his year at Penn State, and my son walked in graduation literally right behind Jahan. And Jahan gets this standing ovation, and my son's walking across the stage, and the ovation's continuing, and my wife goes, why are people so excited about Ryan And his graduation, I said, honey, he's just, he's super popular here.

He just was a great kid. It was all about Jahan. Yeah, you know. Yeah, that's great. No, we, Jehanon came for rookie minicamber, and then he left. For graduation. Yeah. He left a day early to go to his graduation.

Yeah, I was there, watched him walk. But, you know, you bring up, in bringing up Dotson, it brings up that question about trading back. And yes, more picks are better than less picks for the reasons we've discussed. But if there is, you know, that incredible player, it makes it hard, right? Because there aren't, not every first round is filled with, you know, future, you know, Hall of Fame or Pro Bowl type of players. So talk about just the challenge of, wait a minute, you know,

Washington may face that, you know, next Thursday night. They may face that situation where, look, if we trade back, we're trading out of that area in which they're making. be a transcendent kind of a talent. Yeah, and I think the big thing to do there, when you think about it is think back to your original point when we first started talking is where you're saying, like, how the hit rate, how low it is,

and even the guys are the best in the world that literally devote their lives to picking the best players and building the best team, like they get it wrong, you know, two-thirds of the time. And so that's where, like, there's a lot of stats that support this. It's like, it is, historically in the draft, trading up in the first round to draft a non-quarterback has been very bad. Yes.

Like it's a very, like historically low hit rate. And so if you're in a, like, let's say you're Washington, you're picking seventh and somebody is going to offer you something to move back. And again, we're just talking hypothetical. to move back to 12 or something, you know what I mean? And you're going to get an extra second round pick or an extra third round pick. Because of that, the odds and history would tell you the smart thing to do is to trade back. And the reason being is, number one, you get the extra pick. And then number two, there's no guarantee that that pick at seven is going to be better than the guy you pick at 12.

like the fractional percentage that is. And again, the other argument is, well, this player at seven is a future Hall of Famer. He's a blue chip. We know that. Well, yeah, based on your evaluation, which, again, going back to the original conversation, two-thirds of the time is going to be wrong. Right. You know what I mean?

And that's where, you know, what happens is and where the most, mistakes are made is falling in love with a specific player, you know what I mean, and not just understanding and taking the best value. And I think there was Washington fans that can bring up times that that's happened where a player's picked higher than the consensus mock number. And, you know, and those those things don't often, work out. Now, you feel really great about a player and your organization is all in and everyone loves it. Then you pull the trigger and you're happy that player's on your team and you do the best you can to make it work. But I'm just saying based off of numbers and the history of the draft

and you really study these things, trading back is always, I'm sure, is always a better move than trading up unless you're trading up to draft. You know what I mean? Which is. Yeah, that's a totally different, different animal. In that 22 draft, am I right that if Drake London had dropped, that you guys wouldn't have moved back? Correct. Yeah, we were, Drake London was our guy, like the top guy.

We knew that we very much thought that he'd be gone. And he was. Yeah. So there you know what I mean. So there you have it. Yeah, we didn't anticipate him being there, and we weren't going to, you know, we weren't going to trade up to go get him. But, but, yeah, we were, we were fans of his.

He was the number one receiver. And then we had, you know, we had different opinions on those next set of guys and kind of had them all in a kind of lump together. And that's where, you know, and like Garrett got picked before we picked. Right. And then Alave was there. I was just with Garrett this last year. So I said that, you know, it's his first name. But, yeah, and the Lave was there.

And a lot of days, yeah, he's been very, he's been very productive. Obviously, he's had some injury, had some injury issues that he's had to deal with. And, you know, so, but yeah, that's just from a general sense, you know what I mean? That's normally where the smart decisions are made. By the way, speaking of that draft and wide receivers, Traylon Burks was picked a couple of picks after Johan Dotson. He's in Washington now. They really seemed to like him a lot. They re-signed him for this upcoming season.

What did you think of him in that draft? You know, he was a little bit of a, you know, a good size, go with a ball in his hand. At that time, you know, I think it was a little more of a gadgety type player than a true, like, route runner. It felt like he was going to need some development. And then I think what happened in his career, he got injured, and that's where, you know, you get some,

you're dealing with some nagging injuries. And if you're a player that needs development, well, how are you going to develop if you're not practicing? You know what I mean? And I think that's where some of the issues have come with him. And, you know, I know the one who played at which shows, the one in the catch from last year, and I'm sure they're happy to do you to have him and work with him

and see what they can get out of them. All right. Let's get to focusing on the upcoming draft. We'll take a quick break, and we will continue with Scott Turner after these words from a few of our sponsors. It's not easy to lose someone you love. It's not easy to watch someone else lose somebody that they love,

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It really helps us out a ton. All right, we continue with Scott Turner. And let's focus on the upcoming draft, which I know you've been studying a lot here over the last few weeks. And I want to begin with this, because Washington will be on the clock Thursday night, you know, not that long into the first round at number seven. And we've talked tradeback. We've seen many, you know, mock tradeback possibilities for Washington.

But is there a player that you've studied so far that you would say, if he's on the board, it'd be really hard for me to consider a tradeback opportunity? I'd have to take that player. Yeah, so I, it's hard because, you know, I've evaluated a decent amount of these offensive players. I've seen some of the defensive players. I've talked to people just to giving their opinion on different guys. I don't know, you know, I don't think there's an offensive player at seven where I would say, you know, you've got to take him no matter what without trading back. You know, from, again, from my opinion is, you know, offensive coach.

I would say the safety from Ohio State, if for some reason he was there at seven, I think he'd be a perfect fit for the defensive scheme they're going to run. To me, he's like a can't miss guy. This is going to be a dynamic player, find his way around the ball, and make plays kind of like, you know, not exactly like Kyle Hamilton, but just like that type of guy that can play multiple roles for your defense. So he's the guy for me. I don't, and then the other thing, I don't know about the off-the-field stuff with the,

with the defensive end from Miami. I know he's got the short arms, but, like, he's like unblockable. So, you know, and you, and you watched him against, you know, some very high-level, you know, opponents, you know, the Ohio State game. I mean, he basically won the game from Miami, the way he, you know, the way he affected that. So those would be the guys that, to me. and obviously I know they're both defensive players. You know, I think there's some good offensive players,

but I think, like, you know, the receiver situation, I think if someone were willing to trade down with you, like I think you're going to get a player of equal value, or not equal, but, you know, close to that that you would get. And then you just got to watch the thing on the running back. Like, if you want to pick the running back, then, yeah, you're going to have to pick them with seven if you want them. And if that's the direction they want to go, again, I think he's going to be

a really good player. It's just if that's how you want to use your stuff and pick. Okay, well, what you just said is what I want to get to, and that's Jeremiah Love, because this is definitely a prospect that the mass majority of the pundits out there, because those are the people you hear from this time of year, they think he's transcendent. They think he's Bejohn, they think he's Seguan, they think he's Christian McCaffrey. and that it's justifiable to take him at seven or earlier. Now, based on what you said, and you didn't say it directly, that you wouldn't take Jeremiah Love at seven,

but did I hear you imply that it's not something you would do, that you wouldn't take Love at seven? It's too early for him? No, I don't not think. It's not that I don't think that. I think he is dynamic. I think he does have the ability to be as good as some of those players, potentially. But, like, I guess, you know, is it a – is – you just got to – are you comfortable picking

a running back there? And, again, nothing against Saquam, but, like, he had his success on his second team. Like, Christian, like, we had Christian at the Panthers. He was outstanding for us, you know, and we were 5 and 11, you know. So, you know, and then he ended up going – into San Francisco and then he ended up his Super Bowl there. So, like, for as an organization, like, Bejohn, like, hasn't been to the playoffs.

Yeah. They haven't been to the playoffs. You know what I mean? Like, not any one of those players' fault. And those were, like, 100% hits, all three of them, you know? And, but, like, it's just, you know, that resource, as the seventh thing in the draft, are you going to use that on the running back position? And to me, I don't necessarily think that's the right decision to make, even though those guys are great players.

And I think that's where you got to, you know, that's the issue that you've got to, you know, address there. All right. Well, I got excited there, and the people that are listening know why I got excited because I thought I had found the one person that might have agreed with me, which is I do agree with you on the running back position in general. and the fact is that, you know, the EPA, the expected points added number, it's, you know, you're not getting real bang for your buck. You get it much more so with, obviously, quarterback, but even receiver much more so than you do with running back. And you just pointed to all of the examples. But I really think Jeremiah loves good,

but I don't know that he's of that ilk that we were, that I mentioned. Like, I don't know, in some ways, Scott, I just think Bejohn Robinson is one of the most unique running backs I think I've ever watched. Like, he's singular in many ways. Nobody runs like him. I mean, Leveon Bell used to stylistically have some of that to what he did where he'd come to like a full stop in the backfield. But I don't think I've ever seen anybody that elusive, that quick with his feet and vision, like between the tackles. And then, of course, he can also catch the football. And Christian is, you know, maybe as good of a receiver as he's.

is a running back. So I like him. I just don't put him at that level. So you do put him at that level, but you just wouldn't do the running back at seven. Yeah, that's, and again, like, at that level, like, I don't know if, like, I would probably rank him below those other two guys, but I wouldn't, like, not that, not that far. Okay. Below. I think he's going to be an immediate impact. I think he's going to be a dynamic player, wherever he ends up. But, yeah, I just don't know. like, to me, like, you know, I don't know, especially like Washington, I know they, you know, they need some, they need some playmakers on, I know they want to help the quarterback,

but I think they need to playmakers on defense as well. So, but just overall in general, though, I think it's, you know, if you're picking, you know, if you're picking a running back at that spot, like you better, the rest of your roster better look pretty good. And normally if you're picking in the top pit in the rest of your life, the rest of your roster probably doesn't look very good, you know, if that's the part you're picking, unless you have someone else's pick, you know, so that's basically where it comes down to for me. Yeah, I mean, in identifying the defensive players that you did, I think most people

are following along with that, but back to the receiver for a moment, if they did take a receiver at seven, who would you want it to be? Who do you like in kind of your order? Yeah, I think Tate is the top one. You do, okay. Yeah, I think he's the top receiver. I think he's just the cleanest. You know, I do have a little bit of, you know,

just a hesitation with him as far as like, you know, you pick a guy seven, like you want to be the number one receiver and really he, he wasn't, he hasn't been that. You know what I mean? But, you know, but again, you have the perfect example on your roster in Washington, someone with Terry that wasn't the number one receiver in college

that ended up, you know, obviously, is the number one guy. And, you know, so, but I think that, you know, I think he's a solid route runner. You know, he's done a lot in college as far as, like, the route tree. And, you know, comes from a program that has a history of, you know, producing successful NFL receivers. So I think that, you know, he checks a lot of boxes there. I think, I don't know if there's any other guy at seven that you would really feel comfortable. And I don't even know how comfortable I would feel picking him.

seven, but you know, you got to do what you got to do. And I think that, you know, I don't know if there's anyone else really that fits in that category. I mean, you know, everyone's talking about the Arizona State guy, and I don't know. I think if there's some medical questions on him, I'm not necessarily sure. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. And I don't think, you know, I think that would be someone potentially you would pick if you ended up in a situation where you traded back.

When you're evaluating as an offensive guy your whole life, including being an OC in the NFL. Wide receivers, what are you looking for, like for first round material? What's, give me like the order of what's most important to you? Well, to me, number one is just, does he show consistent separation? Because you don't know what these guys' quarterback situation is. So, like, you know, yes, you want them to be productive, but like when you put the tape on, like, is he getting open? when he's covered in man coverage. You know what I mean?

Looking for man coverage snaps and then is he getting open. You know, the production, you know, how is he with the, you know, how is he catching the football? So does he get open? And then does he catch the ball? You know, how does he adjust to the ball in the air? So, like, I think the perfect example of that is always like Justin Jefferson. Like everyone's seeing like the way he can like manipulate his upper body to like, adjust and catch the football.

Like, that's the A plus-plus version of that. But, like, can that player do that? Or is he stiff? Because a lot of times these stiff receivers, like, the ball's thrown behind them, and they can't necessarily turn to make that catch. And that, you know, that, you know, again, it makes it harder for the quarterback and whatever. And then, you know, how are they with the ball in their hand, the toughness? and then you, you know, and then you start looking into, like, the intangibles as far as, like,

how are they blocking? You know, I mean, are they going to, are they willing? Are they going to block for their teammates? You know, that sort of thing as you go on with the process. But the biggest thing, like, to me always is, like, are they consistently showing the ability to create separation, get open when they're in manner-match coverage? Because that's what you're going to have to do to be successful in the NFL. Is there typically a direct link between 40 time and separation rates in your mind's eye?

Like a lot of people looked at Carnell Tate's 40 time that he ran. It was 4 or 5 something, and they weren't blown away with that. And yet, you know, he seems to get plenty of separation. Just the relationship between 40 time and separation. I don't think it's necessarily 40 time. And I've never really looked at it, but I would wonder if it would be shuttle. because it's more the ability to like to stop and change directions than it is because like you know the separation part of it I don't mean necessarily like running a go round running by somebody but like if you're you know if you're on if you're on an in cut like when you break down at 18 yards to to break in

like is that db like transitioning and then blanketing you or are you changing directions in a way where you know that db is still getting stuck in his back pedal and now you got you know three and a half yards away from him so the quarterback can throw on your front shoulder and get a catch and run, catch and run situation. You know, so I haven't ever studied that correlation between the 40 time. A lot of times the real fast guys, like they can get a lot of separate, you know, they can get a lot of separation because, especially on shorter routes, because the DPs are given them so much cushion. But like if a real fast guy takes a long time to stop, then, you know, you know, you know,

DB can always make up the ground, you know what I mean? So I think that it's more of a case-by-case situation. Jerry Rice ran a 4-6, something like that. Yeah. All right, so quarterbacks real quickly, not that Washington's in the market for one, which is nice, by the way, to have back-to-back drafts where quarterback's not a primary need as it was for about 25 years for the most part. But, how about that?

I know. It's every year. I mean, oh, you know what? I don't know if I asked you this. Yeah, I think we did talk about it. But, man, the fan base, they fell in love with Sam Howl pretty quickly. When did you know that he wasn't necessarily a full-time upper-tier starting quarterback? Did you ever think that that was a possibility? No, I don't know.

I never knew if it was an upper-tier. I thought he was going to have an ability to start in the league, you know, kind of halfway, you know, just over the course of his rookie year in 2022. I know we started him that last game. Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, and I'm not trying to be negative or anything, but like, I think he got thrown in that situation, his first year to start. You know, they led the league in past attempts that year.

He got hit a lot. And I think that that may have had some effect on him, you know, over the course. course, you know, over, you know, over the course that year and then that had some effect on his career. But yeah, no, I mean, talent-wise, his mental makeup, all that stuff was really, was really good. And, you know, he did a nice job for me the year that I had him. Yeah, I think you said last time that you wouldn't necessarily have dropped him back 400 times in one season, that that wasn't probably the best idea in 2023. Just to remind everybody, Scott Turner was not the offensive coordinator here in

2023. So the quarterbacks this year, do you like Mendoza? Do you like anybody else? I do. Yeah, I really like Mendoza. I think, you know, you know, obviously everything about him as far as like his height,

weight, you know, the way he throws the football, there's not a lot of like NFL concepts on tape, but, you know, he really shows him really good accuracy. The ability to respond, after negative plays, obviously, you know, winning a championship,

making big plays over the course of the season to win a championship with his team. Like all those things are really good. And then just the scheme, the scheme adjusting to the NFL scheme, and I don't think there's any secret he's going to end up at the Raiders, and they find Kirk. And it kind of takes a little pressure off him that he won't necessarily have to come in right away. They got someone that he can learn under, and I'm sure he'll transition his starter soon or later, but I think he's got to

chance to have a really, really bright future. You know, after that, I think there's definitely some intrigue with Ty Simpson at Alabama. You know, some of his good is really good. Like, if you watch a Georgia game from last year, I mean, he lit him up. I mean, you know, with him. And the reason why, you know, there has been some discourse and there's some people that that really like him and even say that he's a better prospect of Mendoza is, which I don't think that, by the way, is because there is a lot of.

of NFL style concepts on tape. Like, you know, he's in that, the Ryan Grubb's office coordinator. But, you know, they were, you know, if you go back to Michael Pennix and I did his evaluation, it's a passing offense, you know, so that's a past first offense. Everything's always on the quarterback's shoulders. So there's a lot of evidence of him, like, playing in that type of scheme.

Now, some of it's good and some of it's bad. Like there was a stretch during the, you know, middle to towards the end of the season that, you know, he didn't play very well and he took a lot of hits. He was banged up a little bit. But, you know, that, and he only had one year as a starter. I think, you know, I don't blame him. You know, if he's going to be a first round pick for coming out,

but you really would have liked to see, you know, how he responded, you know, this year, kind of bouncing back from a little bit of an up and down season. But, you know, he's going to come out and he'll have an opportunity to go to go play somewhere for sure. I think Nussmeier from LSU. I think he's a chance. Obviously, he coached his kid with his dad being open to the corner of the Saints. You know, really, you know, I've spent some time around him in the past back when he was a high school player.

And, you know, just a true quarterback really gets it, understands the game. You know, again, people thought early in the season, the past year, people were saying he might be his number one picking the draft. And then, you know, had a bad year. Coach got fired. he was benched at one point during the season but the ability you know I think he's got he's got some ability

and you know he's played a good amount of football the kid from Miami that you know transfer from Georgia yeah Carson Beck he he you know he was kind of told at Georgia that they didn't want him going good enough and goes to Miami and really had a great year at the four interception game against Louisville

yeah that was kind of because he would that because again people thought he was going to be the number one picking the draft and then you know his second year at georgia as a starter wasn't great and they he had that stretch he's thrown interception like every game and then he goes to miami and the first game with notre dame i mean he played outstanding and i remember watching that game i think we were off that night and um and watching and thinking wow this guy you know is better than i thought he was or he's really kind of bounced back from that bad year and then um you know and And that's really how he played over the course of this past season.

Minusap game is Louisville played pretty well in the college football playoff. I know everyone's going to give him a hard time for the bad interception in the championship game. But he's a guy that has over 40 starts and, you know, I think is an intriguing, you know, mid-round prospect there. And then, you know, there's some other guys, too, like the Penn State guy that is talent and, and, you know, kind of been up and down. Again, same deal more. I think he's a little bit of a physically gifted guy

that could be a project. And then, you know, there's some more guys down the line. Yeah, Beck's been one of my favorites. That Louisville game was painful. The end against SMU when he threw the pick in overtime was painful. And at the end of the Indiana game, I mean, they had a shot. I was really rooting for him because he had driven him down the field against Ole Miss in the semi-final game to win the game, you know,

on that scramble and that run. But there's something about him, you know, his size, his poise. He just looks to me like an NFL pocket passing quarterback. No, he absolutely does. You know, again, we talk about the turnovers, but like

to me, like, he's the one guy that has dealt with adversity and then also, like, came out the other side of it and taking a team to the national championship game. I know they had a lot of good players around them. It's not just him, but he's still

you know, he's still look at the quarterback. whereas like, you know, the Nussmeyer dealt with adversity, Ty Simpson dealt with a little bit of adversity, O'R, or however you say it's name, D. It did, like, they, yeah, but they don't, they didn't, you haven't seen the second half of the story yet. You know what I mean with those guys, you know, like, so. Is there, is there a height that you would never draft?

Quarterback wise. No, no, I don't think so. Like, I've never been that way. I've always kind of felt like if these guys are playing, in college. If they've gotten to this point that, you know, the absolute ability, now you look at it and you factor it into your evaluation, but I wouldn't say never.

I mean, honestly, like, the guys that are too tall almost have as bad of a record as the guys that are too short. You know what I mean? The guys are like six, six and over. There's not a lot of really good players that way either. So, no, I don't, I wouldn't necessarily limit it. I mean, like Bryce Young, I mean, he's the extreme, right? And he was the first pick of the draft.

And he's been up and down, but he's, you know, he's kind of seem like he's very and he's tiny. Kyler Murray is the one to me. He's not only short, he plays short. Like, it's like he's got to get out of the pocket because he can't see. No, for sure. And he's been productive at times. And the thing that Tyler has is he's just so fast.

You know, I mean, so that adds to it. And that's why they're all, there's always something. right? Like if a guy's that short, like something else has got to be elite for him to even be in this conversation. You know, so like Bryce Young, like he's elite processor and like accuracy, and that's why he's virtually his draft. I mean,

Tyler, you obviously can really throw it, but his athleticism and his ability to make plays with his feet, like, you know, that helps him, you know, take, you know, again, account for the height part of it. Tallest quarterback in NFL history. and you're right actually the top three top four tallest quarterbacks ever didn't amount to much Dan McGuire Mark McGuire's brother by the way Brock Osweiler Paxton Lynch and Mike Glennon now when you get they were all six seven or bigger now when you get to six sixes

you got some pretty good ones because Justin Herbert's listed at six six yeah Justin Herbert I think, yeah, Justin Herbert is there. There are some guys that recently that have been, that have kind of bucked that, yeah, a little bit. All right. Last one. Give me the player that you have a really strong feeling about

in this upcoming draft that you think will get underdrafted. You know, usually when, you know, and this is your first time doing this because you've been working as a coach in football for a long time. So now you're evaluating a draft as, as more of a media guy. So is there a guy that you think people are sleeping on and you're convinced is going to be really good?

So the one player that I really liked over the course of watching the season and then it seems like, you know, there's been some negativity about is Lemon, the receiver from USC. And I know he had the weird kind of the different weird interview at the Combine. Like I haven't been involved with the interview process at all.

So I don't know anything about that. It seems like, to me, you know, it's a little bit of kind of what happened last year with the receiver from Missouri. And I'm losing. Yeah. Luther Berger. Luther Burden. Yeah.

Exactly. And different types of players. I know Lemon doesn't run quite as well as Burr. But, I mean, he's such a physical player. So productive. I mean, did so much for. for USC. And I think that he's going to have a very good career. I'm not sure exactly where he's going to end up being picked. But he's a guy that I think has a chance to be pretty

successful. Thanks for doing this. Scott really enjoyed it like I did last time. Let's do it again soon. Enjoy the draft. Sounds good. Scott Turner, everybody. I'll finish up the show next with my NBA playoff picks. That's next after these words from a few of our sponsors. The show is brought you by MyBooky. My bookie's got everything you need for, I think, one of the best times of the year. The beginning of a two-month run of NBA and NHL playoff action. If you use my promo code, DC Reload, My Bookie will give you a 50% cash bonus when you make a deposit. So whatever that deposit size is, take 50% of it and add it to your account and you'll have it to wager with. deposit $500. They'll add $250 to your account. Your balance will be $750. It's yours to wager with.

You have to use my promo code, though, DC Reload, DCRELA, D.C. R.E.L.A.D. Sometimes when you make a deposit as a first-time customer or a returning customer, that promo code section will have something written in it already. Just erase it and then type in DC Reload. at mybooky.com or mybooky.orgie.ag. All right, I do not have NHL playoff picks, shocker, but I do have some thoughts on the NBA playoffs, and I do have a finals matchup prediction with a championship winner. So we still have two teams to be determined. Tonight, the Warriors are at Phoenix in the play-in game for the eight-seed and the right-to-face the Oklahoma City Thunder. And then the eighth-seeded game in the Eastern Conference features Charlotte at Orlando tonight. Charlotte, by the way, is a three-and-a-half-point favorite on the road in that game tonight at My Bookie.

They had a very exciting win in overtime the other night against Miami. The winner of that game will face the top-seeded Detroit Pistons in the Eastern Conference. And then the playoffs bracket will look like this. In the Western Conference, it'll be Oklahoma City against the winner of tonight's Phoenix Golden State series. The Thunder are not going to lose that series. Phoenix has no chance in a best of seven. And the only reason I'd give the Warriors half of a chance to at least make it an extended series, something like four, two maybe, in six games, is because of what Steph Curry did the other night.

and just that championship pedigree. But the Thunder will certainly advance in that first round series. The Lakers Rocket Series would have been maybe the most anticipated series, but all of the Laker injuries make that a Houston series, even though Houston's the five-seat, I would certainly expect Houston to advance as the five-seed, no matter what LeBron's capable of doing at his age. The series that I think is right now the most interesting

and the most anticipated in the first round will be Nuggets Timberwolves, a 3-6 matchup in the West. I think it's a big deal for Yokic. I think this is a big postseason for Nicola Yokic. He won the title and hasn't been back. There was the feeling when they won the title a few years ago that it was going to be the first of many,

but Oklahoma City has supplanted Denver for sure and really looks more like a dynastic possibility. I think it's a big postseason for Yokic, and I do think the Nuggets will advance over the Timberwolves, but then they would get what would be an incredible second round series. Nuggets against the Spurs. I'm going to give the Trailblazers a chance to win two games, at least in that first round series against San Antonio. But San Antonio will prevail, and then we'll get just an absolute war. Wembe and Yokic in a second round series, Denver,

in San Antonio. San Antonio is the two-seed would have home court advantage. Thunder rockets, I would like the thunder certainly to advance there. And I see a Thunder Nuggets Western Conference final. I think it's early for San Antonio, first playoff trip for that particular group. I think they are going to be a contender for years to come as long as Wemby stays healthy. That's a very good supporting cast around him, but I like Yokic and Murray and company to advance, even as the team that won't have home court advantage in that series to the Western Conference Finals. And then I like the thunder over the nuggets in the Western Conference Finals. Should be a hell of a series, but, and it'll be a big series for Yokic, I'm telling you, you know, the, the narrative on Yokic

could start to change if he doesn't get back to a second NBA final. and maybe win a second title, and it's going to be hard being out west. In the east, it's going to be the number one-seeded pistons against the winner of Orlando and Charlotte tonight. I like Detroit to advance, although Charlotte would be a tough opponent. Cavs, Raptors, really interesting series. I think that's a toss-up. I'm going to give Cleveland a slight edge, but it would not surprise me if Toronto won that series. I think a lot of people are expecting the Knicks to make a deep run. I like them over the Hawks and their 3-6 match-up.

And then the Celtics right now, healthy and playing well against the 76ers. Let me just cut to the chase. I think the Celtics are going to end up being in the NBA finals against the Thunder. I like Boston to advance to the finals. I think they beat the Knicks in the Best of Seven. I think that would be a second round matchup potentially. and I think they would beat either the Pistons or the Cavs and a best to seven. I think Boston Healthy might be the best team in the league, but they are certainly the best team in the East.

And I think we will see the thunder in the NBA finals for the second straight year, and this would be one hell of a series. So was last year going to seven games with Halliburton getting hurt in game seven. But I think it's Celtics Thunder in an absolute war of an NBA finals matchup with the thunder going back to back winning a seventh and deciding game at home for a second consecutive year. That's my pick, Oklahoma City, to win a second straight in the NBA finals over Boston. I guess, you know, a surprise would be, and it's a legitimate surprise, not, you know, a crazy back of the pack surprise.

But the Nuggets could get there. And if they did, and it was a Nugget Celtics final, that would be highly entertaining as well. But I just don't know that the Nuggets have enough over seven games to deal with Oklahoma City coming off what would be a war of a series against San Antonio. The West, much more entertaining, I think, than the East. but it should be a fun two plus months, you know, right around two months. And all the while, we as Wizards fans will be on pins and needles,

some of us will be for that draft lottery coming up next month. All right, that's it for the show, back on Monday.