The Kevin Sheehan Show - Secondary Depth Chart + Quincy Wilson's Coach

Episode Date: July 5, 2024

Kevin opened with Ben Standig talking Commanders' 53-man secondary depth chart. It also included discussion about who will return punts and kickoffs. Then Joe Lee/Bullis Track & Field Coach jumped on to talk about his young star, Quincy Wilson, the youngest male Olympic Track & Field participant in Team USA history. Download the PrizePicks app today and use code Sheehan for a first deposit match up to $100! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor is Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name for a free, no obligation in-home estimates.

So this show today on Friday, July 5th, I recorded earlier this week. I'm away out west in Los Angeles. on my way this weekend to Las Vegas for a day or two. Never more than 48 hours. That is the max. But I recorded two different interviews. The second part of Ben Standig's 53-man defensive depth chart projection all too early, you're going to hear coming up here in a moment.

We'll talk corners, safeties, and some special teams as well. And then joining the show will be Joe Lee. Joe is the track and field coach at Bullis. He's developed a powerful high school track and field program at Bullis and Potomac. He's been coaching Quincy Wilson, who is headed to Paris as the youngest male track and field Olympian of all time. He's qualified for the 4 by 400 relay team. So you will hear that over the final. two segments.

All right, jumping on with me right now to finish up the conversation that we started on Wednesday is Ben Standing from The Athletic at Ben Standing on Twitter. Subscribe to The Athletic. It's completely worth it. And, of course, listen to Ben's podcast. He does one as well. It's called Standing Room Only. You can get that podcast where you get mine or wherever you get your podcast.

So we did the first part of your all 53 man defensive projections all too early on D-Line and linebacker and spent a lot of time on Jamin Davis on Wednesday's show. We left the secondary for today's show. There are some big decisions to be made. And I think one of the things going into this, Ben, and I wonder if you have the same sense. I don't know what they think of the guys that have been here. Benjamin St. Juice, Emmanuel Forbes, Christian Holmes, Percy Butler, etc. Do you have a sense? I mean, you've put this together, and we'll get to it here in a moment,

but do you have a sense of whether or not they like some of these guys a lot or whether they added some of these people via the draft and free agent? to replace some of the guys that they had seen on tape? Yeah, I think what's important to remember when, you know, again, this is a way too really projection, but when you look at trying to think, what are they seen, what are the staff going to consider? When they come in, with Peters, Dan Quinn, et cetera, the players on the roster, regardless of how we view them,

are no different to the staff than guys who are in free agency. So when they're, or in the draft, so when they're bringing in new, people. In some cases, it is kind of suggesting, well, we see what's here, but when you bring in certain other guys with the same kind of role, you're kind of saying, yeah, we're kind of maybe like this person a little bit better. There's a reason you're saying, let's bring them in. So I do think at Corner in particular, like I had six saying, but there's another two to three, maybe four guys, you know, depending on how they view the different roles, you know, again, and special teams will be a huge decision for some of the back-end spots.

You know, this could easily be changed over a couple of times. But, yeah, I just think I don't quite know what they think of some of these holdovers like a Christian home, but at the same time, you know, just because he's been here doesn't mean anything anymore because it's not the same team, not the same scheme, and not the same evaluators making the decisions. All right. So at corner, let's start there. who do you see lining up as the two outside corners and then the inside corner when they're in nickel, which is, you know, a lot more than they're in base when we get to week one?

Yeah, you know, I think St. Q's remains, you know, the clear number one guy. I'm not saying he's a shutdown corner and, you know, you can leave him on an island against the top receivers and you're good. But I think, you know, to some degree you're going to have to trust somebody and he would be the guy. that I would look to trust the most. And we've talked about this before, and I've written about this. The secondary is where I am most fascinated to see what this new coaching staff can do.

Because we know how last year things went sideways after Chris Harris left, and they were coming up a pretty good 20-22 season. St. Juist has always felt like he's on the cusp of a breakout, and then it doesn't quite happen. He gets his hands on the ball, but drops, passes. Last year, I believe he gave up like the most yards as a corner most receiving yard.

But how much is that on him versus scheme versus, you know, nothing was working for this defense last year. So I just think he's probably, you know, safe there for sure. I've got to think Mike Sanders still, the second round pick, is the slot corner. This is where they project him to be. You know, I just think he's, you know, there's so much to like about him.

We heard what Nick Saban said that it was like favorite, you know, the thought it was like the best pound-for-pound player in the draft. so I would probably say he's going to play slot corner from the start if not or at least sooner than later. Maybe I'm a sucker. I think Forbes will probably be the other guy if I had to say,

you know, Michael Davis is here as well and he's a guy that, you know, has been in the league and can play, but, you know,

he's kind of a, you know, juryman type guy. I don't think you're viewing him as like a major upgrade. It's more like if, if things fall apart, hey,

we have a guy, we know he can play, he won't, you know, He won't make too many mistakes, but I don't know that they're like a lot of upside there, and this feels like a year to shoot for upside. So, you know, with Forbors' playmaking ability that we saw in college and how this staff, Joe Witt, Dan Quinn, the last two years in Dallas,

had two different players lead the league in interceptions. I just think Forbes is going to be interesting. Well, we'll see. You know, he has to make, obviously, major strides from what we saw a year ago, but I don't know. I'm not going to rule it out yet with this staff. So I'd probably say for, but you know, Davis is there just in case. So who else?

The kid from Colorado State, Chiginoosium, was apparently impressive at times. The guy that they brought in from Dallas, another difficult name to pronounce, Noah Igbinogeni. I think it's Igbenani. Igbenani. You know, that's somebody who's familiar with the system. just give me, you know, 30 seconds on each one of those guys and what you think and whether or not they'll make the team. Yeah, I mean, the Colorado State kid, an museum, it's such a weird deal.

Why doesn't he get, he doesn't get drafted, but they give him $350,000 bonus to play here, which is like the most that anybody got this cycle. It's weird, like, why not just draft him? But, okay. But, yeah, I think if you're paying that kid that kind of money, he'd really have to flop to not stay. He's an aggressive corner. He's a good tackler.

You know, I think there's some questions about his natural playmaking ability. But, again, when you're looking to the future, this is the kind of guy you want to keep and develop, and clearly the staff thinks they like him. Igbenaghi, if I'm saying that right, sorry. He's a former first-round pick. It just really hasn't worked out for him, though. A lot of injuries just hasn't played a ton.

But, you know, again, he was with Dallas. They then brought him to come here. He's in that same general category. We have Christian Holmes, Tariq Castro Field. They brought him this other guy, James Pierre, who was with the Steelers, another more special team kind of a guy. I think all those guys are probably battling for one spot, maybe two if they keep seven.

But I went with the guy that was on the staff with Dallas last year. If they're bringing him here, they at least have a sense that he can do what they want. So that's kind of why. Well, he can play special teams too, because I remember in the open. opener last year against the Giants. He scored a touchdown on a block field goal return. Right, right, right. So, yeah, so he'll help there as well.

So I've got him over like the Christian Holmes and James Pierre, Terry Castro field types. All right, safety. Any big surprises? I think here it's just a matter of how many do they keep. But I think they're key. I would imagine they keep six with Dominicampton, the day three drastic out of Washington,

I think from a physical, a measurable kind of sense, I think he's what they're looking for. He and Jeremy Chin are both 6-3, both way about 220, an aggressive physical player. I think he's going to be, he has a chance to be one of those guys

that fans fall in love with like into the preseason if he's fortunate enough to get a big hit on a guy, a receiver or two. So then, you know, Jeremy Chin, Juan Martin, Derek Forrest, you know, I've got to think they're all going to be good. Jeremy Reeves, of course. You know, Percy Butler, again, this comes down to a guy who was drafted fairly high, but by the previous regime.

But I kind of like Butler. I still think there's something there. I just, you know, another example of a guy. They never quite felt they had a proper role for him previously. So, you know, I'd like to see what he can do with this staff. So I think those are the six. I don't really have anybody else kind of even contending. It's a lot of like undrafted free agent types beyond those.

So I think those, I think all six of these guys stay. Now that would be 12 defensive backs. But in this day in the NFL, I don't think that's crazy, especially when you can have guys like Chin and Hampton be that, you know, a quasi-linebacker, Kwan Martin. You know, if it's not Santer still in the slot corner, it may very well be Martin. I was going to ask you.

So, you know, I think keeping these guys, to me, I, you know, I won't say this is a lock, but it feels like, you know, fairly confident unless there's something happens out of the blue that the D6 don't, you know, I think D6 make the team. Yeah, I think Wood Jr. had talked about Kwan Martin in his initial introductory press conference, a player that they really liked in Dallas. And, you know, to see how they use Jeremy Chin. First and foremost, for him, he's just got to stay on the field and stay healthy. He's a talent.

There's no doubt about it. He's got to stay healthy. And it'll be interesting to see how they use Martin. All right, anything else secondary-wise that I haven't asked you about that I should have. I don't think so. I mean, I think now that we've kind of gone through the roster, we previously talked to offensive defense, and you mentioned we talked a lot about Jamie Davis, I kind of want to, like, throw it out to you. here's where I viewed like

my independent position. Here's how I viewed my last one or two spots and I'm just curious like where you would prioritize if you know it's given the opportunity. So I'll lay out the option here. Are you ready? All right. I had six

receivers with essentially James and Crowder, the six one as a as the punt returner. I don't know who would be exactly if it's not him. you know, maybe Sanders still, he didn't do it a ton in college, but he's, you know, he's a playmaker. He's got, he showed a lot as a receiver at Michigan. I don't know.

Do they really use John Dodson? Probably not, but, okay, Cratter, six receiver. The fourth tight end, I had Armani Rogers sticking, you know, I don't know, do you need a fourth tight end into Cliff King's very offense? We'll have to, we'll have to see. a ninth defensive lineman, I think you probably have to keep nine. I think it's reasonable. I think the question is, is it Fadarian Mathis or, you know, a defensive tackle versus a different spot? I only have four linebackers.

Would you keep a fifth, meaning Jamie Davis perhaps? I think to me, those are like the main debate. So six receiver, fourth tight end, a fifth linebacker, or, you know, maybe an extra defensive of Lyman as a way to keep on, you know, their seventh round pick from this year or an FAA about or something like that. You laid out a lot there, and you know I'm not a 53-man roster projection guy, although Doc has accused me of being that guy over the years. Let's just start with receiver.

I think that the, I'm wondering if Olomidi Zakias and Jameson Crowder are redundant. I don't know if that's true or not. but they've both played a lot of slot receiver, and it's possible that Dotson and McCaffrey could play in the slot. We have to wait to see what the offense looks like. Look, Scott Turner had Terry McLorne lined up in the slot at times to try to create matchups. But six receivers for a Cliff Kingsbury offense doesn't seem like a big number. Tight ends, I have no idea, because the one thing that, you know, this idea of, you know, a Cliff Kingsbury style offense from college where you're going to have a true spread, which doesn't happen in the NFL anyway, because of the splits that offensive line take, offensive linemen take, where the hash marks are, he threw to the tight end.

He played a lot of two tight ends when he was the head coach at Arizona. I would imagine, you know, Ertz and Sinit and Bates are givens, and then it comes down to whether or not Armani Rogers is really a receiving tight end that they can use in a lot of different ways. We've talked about him before. I think that he's an interesting guy, but I'm basing that off of the last coaching staff. You know, they were going to use him in a lot of different ways before he got hurt. What's the other area?

Like six wide receivers to me makes sense, but I wonder if it's somebody like, I'll throw the name out, Kaz Allen. You know, I had, who did I have on the radio show when I asked, tell me somebody that's been super impressive to you. And they mentioned Kaz Allen's name as a receiver as a returner. You know, last year they, you know, told us what a great return specialist he could become. We didn't end up seeing him in that role. I think he was called up for one game. may have been back on a kickoff or two, but I wonder if somebody like him, because of the new rules,

is the guy or one of the two guys back on kickoff returns and you lose Zekees because of it? I don't know. What did they give Zekees in terms of guaranteed money? I can double check. I mean, it's just a one-year deal with their cab space. I don't really think that matters a ton. But my issue with, with, uh, has Allen, and this was an issue last year, he was a kick returner at UCLA. He didn't return months. Right. And in the new

with these new rules, I had Brian Mitchell on my podcast. I haven't posted it yet, but we talked the other day. And I wanted to ask, of course, arguably the greatest kick returner of all time, what's he think about this? And we both kind of agree that a bigger,

like this is not the era where maybe we want that Kaz Allen type guy returning kicks because it's going to be so much more congested. Now, if you can make it pass one, that first wave of players, that may be a home run, so maybe if Allen's speed is enough to justify that, but a bigger, a Brian Mitchell-type returner actually probably makes more sense. So, I don't know that you're keeping Allen and Crowder, but yeah, that's sort of the,

that's sort of the point. And for me, like, this is about, like, the Jamie Davis argument or discussion we had before. Keep him cool. He's the fifth linebacker. Where am I taking something away from? And the six receiver, the fourth tied end, I think to me or the one toer would be the, okay, pick one of those that go away. And like you said, I just feel like a Cliff Kingsbury team is going to have six receivers

one way or another, which leaves the fourth tight end. And, you know, that's the question. I think one of the things about the return game, remember that a kickoff return with the new rules is going to have two returners back deep, not one. You're going to have two because you're going to minimize the opportunity for the kick team to have it bounce and then go into the end zone, which then gives you the ball at the 20-yard line. So I think the normal kickoff return alignment will include two returners.

You know, and we've only had to think about one over the years, but I think there will be two kickoff returners as to what kind of. kind of player you're going to want to have back there. I think Brian's point where it might be more of a player that you would have offensively at the line of scrimmage is a good point. And I think that's the way it may evolve. You know, that's why, you know, look out Miami. They might put Tyree Kill back on kickoff returns because it's a less dangerous play. You know, you don't have somebody running, you know, 60 plus yards downfield with a head of steam. They've got to start at the 40. They've I've got to wait until the ball is fielded.

But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know who those returners. The punt returner, I would imagine the punt returner will be one of the two kickoff returners, but I don't know that for sure. But you're going to have two kickoff return guys, more likely than not. Yeah, no, you're right about that. And, you know, we'll see that one thing that's been interesting is they have tried it out a ton of players out for kick returns in practice. And, you know, I think part of that is it's their overall philosophy of trying to see what every player in this team can do and potentially maximize their abilities.

But also, I think because they're probably having a similar conversation to this, do we really, you know, are we definitely keeping the six receiver as this player? Can we find another player in another position to handle these duties? Like, I'm intrigued. You know, I don't like putting too much on a rookie, but, you know, Santer still's playmaking, you know, it was said at the Michigan Pro Day this year, you know, he was out there catching passes for J.J. McCarthy just because he used to be a receiver in college. And I heard from people saying, wow, he blew away as a receiver. So, you know, keeping him around, you know, again, I have,

12 defensive back staying. Maybe there's a world where he is involved in the return game, you know, because he's got this ability and it's a way to, you know, to have another player at another position without having to keep an extra receiver. Like, I don't see crowd or, let's say he's a punt returner or a kick return. I don't see him being heavily involved in the offense. So, you know, maybe, but I don't see any, I don't know why that would be the case definitively. So maybe you decide you don't need that spot. So we'll see. John Dotson will be interesting because he did return punts at Penn State.

And he wasn't, you know, he was used, I think, one of those years sort of in kind of that big spot. You know, let's put Jehan back there because it's a big, you know, opportunity to flip the field. And he wasn't necessarily their full-time returner. But one of those years, I know he scored and had like a ridiculous average on punt returns. I don't think he ever return kicks at Penn State. Anyway, all right. And I think also just quickly, I know, like, for here, forever, it has always fault, whoever has been the coach,

that they've been largely conservative with regard to who is the returner. Like, you know, they just haven't used guys who are, you know, who were starters in other positions. Right. at that spot. And I wonder if, you know, these staff seems to be, as it stands in now, maybe a little more aggressive with how they're thinking and talking about stuff. Maybe they decide, hey, we have this guy in Dodson.

And, you know, why not you, or saying or still? And rather than, you know, look, I mean, we all know the last few years here between Dak, Macmill and James and Cratter, you know, they're not getting much explosive play. You're just basically telling the guy, catch the ball, fair catch it, don't fumble, and we'll go from there. Great job. Appreciate it. As always, have a good weekend. Thanks for having me. See it.

Ben Standing, everybody. Up next, we talk Quincy Wilson, the youngest male track and field Olympian in U.S. history with his coach at Bullis, Joe Lee. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. football season will be here before we know it, guys, but that doesn't mean we're not watching other sports, baseball, golf, tennis, soccer, the WNBA. If you want to have some fun watching those games, I would recommend, in terms of Daily Fantasy Sports,

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All right. Jumping on with me right now is the head track and field coach at Bullis in Potomac. Joe Lee has developed a powerhouse track and field program in Potomac, and he's got Quincy Wilson, who is headed to Paris. Quincy Wilson, the youngest, male track and field participant in U.S. history. He is 16.

He's going to be a part of the 4 by 400 meter relay roster for the games in Paris. He set the under 18 record for the 400 meter run and qualified for the 400 meter final. He came in 6th, which was an incredible accomplishment for somebody of his. age. So Joe Lee joins us right now. Joe, thanks so much. You know, I'm curious when you first sensed, you know, was

there a moment with Quincy where you realized, I may have something here? You know, I may have a future Olympian. When did you first see it in him? Oh, that's funny. You know, even hearing you say it, it's like, you know, the youngest

Olympian in the history of our country, it's It's like, I'm like, who are they talking about? Like, oh, wait, that's my kid. So, when did I first see it? Probably, I first thought it when I, maybe about the first week or two in practice, I said one day this kid could be, you know, something special on a world-class level. But he was 14.

So nobody was thinking. Olympics when you have a 14-year-old where he maybe have been 5'7, you know, with some platform shoes on. Yeah. And at that time, a buck 20 with bricks in his pocket. But he's grown since then, and not much because he's still just not an imposing figure. But when I watched him on the track and just how he had approached every rep, like giving it all, I'm like, wait a minute, this is different.

You know, everybody backs off a little bit, you know, at some point in time. And he just wouldn't back off. So we got out to his first track meet. on the national level, which was the Indoor National Championships, the New Bounce Nationals out in Boston, back in March of 2023. He was just in the race. No one was expecting him to win or even potentially placed because he was going against the top two runners in the country,

and the number one rent runner was number two or three all time. So it was like a two-person race. And so these two guys, they get out. They're blazing fast. It's the 400. about in the 400 indoors is two laps. So the first lap, they're blazing fast. You don't even see him in the picture.

So on the second lap, about 150 meters ago, and he's creeping back in it, and he's like, okay, he's going to have a good showing. And all of a sudden, Kevin, I'm telling you, he hits this gear, and then the guys who were in front of him just start to be reeled in. And before you know, the crowd is going crazy, and they're like, here comes the freshman, here comes to freshman.

and I'm literally jumping up and down, and he crossed that finish line. First he passed him on the home stretch. The place went nuts. And when he crossed the line, he just had this look on his face like, oh, you guys didn't know? You guys didn't know what going to happen? Who were the other two runners? And how old were they?

18, and one guy might have been turning 19 that year. One is at the University of Tennessee right now, and the other, I cannot remember what they go. They both graduated and are running Division I track and field at a high level. And they were the heavy favorites in that 400? Oh, by far. Yeah. But no one was talking about this.

I mean, he ran, you know, D.C. he ran well. I remember what was like, wow, it's not bad for a freshman, 47 indoors, which is fast. I mean, fast for anybody, but no one was thinking about, you know, because he ran like 47 mid, 475, 476. Right. These guys that was run like 46 flat, 46. one. Like, it sounds like it's not a lot of time, but I mean, you know the sport.

It's, you know, a second and a half is an eternity. Right. And a sprint. So, yeah, so they were the head-on favorites. And then here comes this little small thing, frame freshman out of nowhere with the funky form because he's still a kid. He still runs like a kid. That's one of the things that makes his story so cool.

Just as a track fan, forget about being a coach. he still runs like a kid. He runs with his head tilted back and his arm swing. It's just funny because, like, is this really happening? Did this guy just make the taggling Olympic team? And he did. And we're improving the form and all that. But, you know, some things like, if any broke, don't fix it.

You know what I mean? Right. Well, I was curious because I don't know so that much about this sport. How far does he have to go technically to get the proper form? Is it important that he does that? Well, you know, so there's some pictures on mine. There's one picture in particular from the Olympic trials, and he's running against Bryce Deadman,

who is the defending U.S. champion. And Bryce is about 6-2, and Quincy's maybe 5'8. He swears he's 5'9, but I'm like, yeah, kid, you know, when you're standing in a tiptoe's on the best day. But it's just a 40-looking picture. And again, Bryce is a full-grown, man graduated from Texas A&M, his professional runs for Nike. Then you've got this kid in a bullet uniform.

Who doesn't even shape? Yeah. But, you know, his heart and his desire is what gets him there. But he's also got some interesting attributes about him. He's got very long legs and very long arms. He's kind of got like a short torso thing in there. So what we do from a technical perspective is, you know, everybody's different, right? I think when we get caught up into this box and you have to do it this way,

and this is the only way to do it. It's almost like telling a jump shooter you have to shoot only this way. Right. Well, we've seen jump shooters over the years, you know, different forms. You know, Reggie Miller shoots different than, you know, LeBron James. LeBron shoots different than, you know, Kobe shot. So it's all in, you know, what works well for how you're built. So what we're doing is we're working on some of the technical things,

like it's arm swinging out wide. let's let it going back and forth. But some of the things we're not changing is, you know, just how he, how his stride is, his stride length. And, you know, he covers ground really well because he's very, like I said, it's long lens, but he also is very aggressive in his last part of his race. And that's what makes him special. It's so interesting because I was just thinking as you were talking about jump shooters.

It's so true. And sometimes hand size and arm length actually have a lot to do with, what the stroke looks like. So this event in which he was not supposed to do anything, and he shocks the two favorites, that was the moment that you thought, wow, I really have something here, but did you think Future Olympian? Not at all. I mean, well, you know, again, future Olympian, yes, but not like a year from now. Right. Because, again, he's still a freshman in high school. And the 400, so just kind of give a little bit about track.

You said you didn't know too much about it. And, you know, we all are casual fans every four years and so. Love it. Come around. So, but the 400 meter dead, it's one lap around the track outdoors. And if you've ever sprinted anything, you know, it's after maybe 50 to 100 meters, you get tired. Well, do that four more times. It's a grueling event in track and feel it's a unique blend of speed, but plus strength.

And typically, you will, if you run out, It's all out everything you've got. You're going to just be, you know, the bear with the refrigerator and all that other kinds of stuff, it jumps on your back, and you've got to be crawling home. So, you know, it's the event that really you wouldn't see a high school anybody and let along a high school sophomore of her stature. So last year when everything happened, I'm like, yeah,

this kid's got something here, but I think he'd be, you know, buying for the Olympic team next year. But what I love about him, one of the many things I love about him is that there's no governor. He has no limits. He doesn't allow a mindset to set in that there's something he can't achieve or accomplish. Now, I'm not saying he was thinking he won't succeed it, but we're just like, okay, what's the next thing? What's the next thing? What's the next thing?

And the next thing, next thing, next thing. He kept achieving those goals before we knew it. Fast forward to a year from that race, his freshman year, fast forward to this past March, Don't. Florida relays down in Gainesville, he runs the number one time of the country, and he qualifies for the Olympic trials. Like, wait, what? Did that just happen?

He'd qualify for the Olympic trials, and we're like, yeah, I guess we're going to Olympic trials. And that right in there was a win. I mean, if you're in high school and qualified for the Olympic trials, you're in rare territory. But to, you know, to do it as a sophomore, like, that's not happening. And it did.

So we said, we'll go. what happens then, then this little knucklehead makes the game. Like, how do you do that? It was pretty far. That's crazy. Now, the reason no one at that age typically makes it in that particular event is because those that typically do well are physically mature, correct? Yes, exactly. So you've got to imagine it. You have pictures. It's almost like when I gave the analogy before, but I'd give you a better one. It's almost like seeing someone

come from JV football to go and playing in the NFL. You can't even fathom it because your body's not ready, and that's why you can't jump right from college to the NFL right away. You just need time to develop. Now, this is not being a contact sport.

It's a little different in that. Obviously, you know, there's no, you're not worried about someone's safety. But at the same time, these are strong. I mean, these are big, strong, grown men who have been training all their lives. They're typically a 400-meter runner, six feet tall to 6-2, you know,

they're 180, 185 pounds of muscle. He's 5-8, he's 130 pounds, so he can let bricks in his pocket, that kind of thing. Yeah. And it just defies logic. But what makes it cool also is not just that his stature is not imposing, but I mean, he's just also this wide-eyed kid with a million-dollar smile. Like, he's just having fun. He literally is out there.

Like, this is fun to him, and that's what sports really should be. I think, you know, sometimes even now with, you know, all the things that are happening with, you know, college and NILs and the pros making so much money, which I'm good with all that as well they should. we forget that this is still a sport, it's still for fun, and still something we should do for enjoyment. So he enjoys every minute of it.

There's no pressure. We went down there to, or went across, rather, to Eugene with playing with house money. Like, look, we're just having fun. This is track, we're still in our high school track season. And when we got down there, it was fun, and he was not intimidated one bit. Like, why should I be in doing it?

Like, I earned it just like everybody else, so let's see what they got. And, you know, we went from the trials. Or two me the first round. He won his first round, and everybody went wild. He was even Snoop Dog came out there and wanted to meet him, which is crazy. He's like, Coach, I know who he is, but I don't know any of his music. Like, you know what?

You make me sick. Like, you just meet Scoop Dog randomly, and you don't even know his music. That's pretty good. I grew up on his music. But anyway, so it's fun, man, and we're having a ball. And as long as it stays fun, we're going to keep doing it. I think this is so interesting. because like what you're describing and people are listening to this is really somebody who's so young and so, you know, far away from what he's accomplished, you know, typically in this sport.

So I would ask you, is it just raw talent, raw speed? I mean, we'll get to what he's going to eventually look like when he does physically mature. I looked up the other day when I had you all. radio, Michael Johnson, who's one of the greatest 400-meter and 200-meter runners in the history of this country, 6-1-180, you know, and was still running into his, you know, mid to late 20s, I think, or even maybe even older than that. Yep, 30s, yeah. So why is he getting these results? Is he just, is it just raw talent? You know, that's a great question, Kev.

I'm going to give you an honest answer. And again, coaching? Yeah, I definitely, no, I'm not, that's not it. I'm not going to say that at all. I'm going to give an answer to the coach, but also as a fan of sport in and of itself, you cannot put limitations on the human will. And this story, I think it's capturing so much of attention. It's really become like America's feel-good story because of, you know,

I'm not the biggest. I'm not the strongest. He's not even the fastest. Like, you know, we had to teach him how to sprint technically because his form was all, you know,

out of whack. And, you know, he just hadn't ever been taught how to be more efficient with his sprint mechanics. And we've been working on that. We're still working on that. But he's not the fastest one in the field.

He's not the tallest one. He's not the biggest one. Not the one of the most experienced. So what does he have left? His will. This kid literally has the will of someone like I've never seen, where he goes after it and he gives everything he has literally until he passes out.

I mean, we have been, and he hasn't passed out, like, unconscious pass it up, but I'm talking about in practice. He will give everything to the point where it takes him 20 minutes to get all off the ground. Like, I've given everything I've got. And we say that, you know, and we sometimes we have seen it, and I think we've seen it in people like Kobe or, you know, how they would train. And even those things are just so rare. I mean, if you look at a guy like a Kobe or a LeBron or even how Tom Brady trained, you know,

up into his 40s, it's the will. It's not just the skill, but it's the will that sets you apart, the great ones. I've just never seen it as young. I'm not in this sport. I'm sure in other sports, you know, maybe that's what LeBron was like at 16. It's funny. They call him King Quincy in the Jaguarial. with his parents and I and his sister think it's hilarious, like King Quincy, whatever,

you better come take out his trash. Yeah. So, but, you know, they make the parallel to LeBron, but he really has that. Like, there's something in him that just says, I'm going to give everything I can in terms of not just my ability to run hard, but to focus in, lock in, and find out how to figure out what success looks like for me at this level. And when you keep doing that, and you keep doing it, keep doing it, it becomes habitual, and then it breaks barriers. And that is literally what's going to, what's happening.

I'm not making it up because all the other things are to his disadvantage. But the one thing he has is his will and determination to succeed. And if we learn a lesson from that as a society, I think we're all going to be better people. So interesting, right. I've always thought that the kids that, you know, and basketball's the sport I'm most familiar with from a participation in coaching standpoint, but that freshman makes the varsity team, not just because he's six, nine, and they put him on the varsity team, but because he actually is going to play. It's so rare, and it's something that is clearly competitively innate, right? I mean, they just don't fear anybody older. They're ready mentally from a maturity standpoint,

and they're competitive badasses in most cases, and it sounds like that's what you are describing. What will he ultimately be physically? You said he's 5'8, 5'9, 130 pounds soaking wet with bricks in his hands. what do they have do the parents know how are the parents built what will he look like

when he is physically mature size wise that's a great question that's the fun part about this because he's 16 and he's not like turning 17 tomorrow 16 he's turning 17 next year so

you know his parents are not imposing figures either I think he's already taller than his dad and his dad did play football at Navy you're running back and his mom she's a basketball player she played ball

but she's not very tall he's tall in both of them his mom might be 5-7 she's probably gonna come me like you know how tall I am coach Lee up 5-8 or whatever whatever she would say

she's not taller in 5-8 for sure so she's probably about 5-7 dad's round about 5-7 5-8ish so but her brothers she tells me her brothers are all over 6-1 6-2 so it's in their genes

But he doesn't really need it, Kevin. Just being honest, if he doesn't grow another inch, the way that he's wired and the way that he locks in, I mean, you should have seen him. We're at the Olympic trials. This is covered by NBC International, right? Because everybody watches the Olympic trials leading into the Olympic Games, like we would do for swimming or gymnastics.

You know, okay, who's going to be on Team USA? We're in the dagonal warm-up area, and he's like a caged lion. And there's some of the pros that, you know, try to intimidate him. He just kind of looks at me and just laughs. Like, they don't know. I'm like, this is funny because when he's locked in, and he's always locked in, he's a force. So if he doesn't grow another couple inches, great. He could grow up to 6'2, though.

He swears are going to be taller than me. I'm 6'2. You know, like, you're not catching me, but he grew at least two or three inches last. from last year to this year because he was a good five. How did he get to you? How did he get to you? So, funny story. So we're at a track meet, and one of the rare track meets,

we're down in Virginia Beach. There's a nice complex down there that's a indoor track meat. And most high school track meets don't involve middle school. This particular one did. So it's a rare case. I think all year it may have been the only track meet that we were at, where they were they had middle school competition. So I'm now there, and I'm rarely in the stand.

I'm always in the, you know, walking back and forth, going to the warm-off area, make sure our kid okay. I happened to go to the stands because I wanted to see just from a higher perspective. So I went always at top of the stand. And then there's this lady who's kind of standing, she keeps kind of looking over to the side of me, look over to the side, and I'm like, uh-oh, like, what's going on here? Do we just have a competition with her kid,

and then she's mad at me for whatever happened or, I don't know, do I owe her money? What's going on? So she finally comes over to me and she says, are you coach Lee? I'm like, depends on who's asking. She's like, oh, well, I'm Monique Wilson, Quincy Wilson's mom. I'm like, okay, nice to meet you. She's like, well, I wanted to meet you because we want our son to go to Bullis.

And I'm like, all right, you know, what's the catch? Ha, ha, got you. I know you guys live down here at the time they lived down in the Chesapeake, Virginia Beach area. Right. And I said, yeah, you know, you can't do that. She's like, no, we're ready to relocate so that he can kind of both if you're interested in our son. Now, Paul is there. He is not what you see now, but he is the fastest kid in his age group in the country.

So I've got this lady come up to me saying, I want to move my whole, relocate our whole family up to go to Paulus. And I was like, okay, well, this is different. So that's how we met. And he was a straight-A student. So, of course, he got into the school. And it's not easy to get into school like balls. You know, in the IEC. You've got, you know, prep and Landon and, you know, Episcopal, et cetera.

So he got in and he played football when he first got here, believe it or not, because he played football all his life. And he, after his freshman year, he decided to focus solely on track. And here we are. A couple more. for Joe Lee, who coaches track and field at Bulles and is coached and is coaching Quincy Wilson. You just mentioned football. So can he play other sports?

I would imagine with that speed, he could certainly be a wide receiver or a running back or something on the football field. How was he as a freshman football player at Bullis? You know, he was great. So phenomenal athletes, but he's not. He's not, like, if he's not going to be jumping out, he's not, like, reversed dunking on anybody, you know, because, again, last year he was 5-6, this year he was 5-8. Right. So, but he was a great football player.

He was just undersized. Right. And because of his speed, you know, we put a couple plays in for him. I say, we have not on the football staff, but the staff put a couple plays for him, you know, in varsity so that, you know, they can, you know, take advantage of his speed or utilize his speed, rather. And he did well, I think he scored two touchdowns in the game.

We won by one touchdown. So, but it took a toll long. them, just to be honest, because, you know, when you're in 130, and the faster you run, believe it or not, the, I'm not believing about, you know this, because you cover sports, obviously, the faster you run, the hard

those hits impacts you. And if you're not 240, where you can absorb the impact, it's going somewhere. So, he took a couple of hard hits, and because he only knows one way in one speed, like he's not going to back down, we had to shut him down a little early.

Yeah. And, you know, decided eventually that that football wouldn't be the best route for him just far as his career and the decision was totally his, I had nothing to do with it that he discussed with his family. But, yeah, he decided he wanted to go to the combine. I mean, you're

talking about somebody, even right now. I mean, he'll go 4-2 in the 4th, in the 4-2, no doubt. Probably 4-28, 4-29. Ironically, he's getting hit up by everybody on social media, including Tyree Kill. He could do something like that.

if he chose to do it. But right now, I think this track thing is working. If I were him, I wouldn't turn away from it, at least not anytime soon, because he's making history. All right, let's take a quick break, and we'll come back and ask Joe, whether or not Quincy will run in Paris as part of the 4x400 relay team, and what eventually will be his best event as he matures. We'll get to that and more right after.

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Head to MyBooky.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. We continue with Quincy Wilson's track and field coach at Bullis, Joe Lee, Quincy Wilson, the youngest track and field male participant in U.S. history. He's part of the 4x400 relay team. So I don't know how it works. I know there are more than just four 4 by 400 runners that go to Paris. Do you think we'll see him on the track? So that's a great question.

So when I got the call, because they called the coach, gives the news about making a team or not. You know, they said, you know, we're not guaranteeing he's going to run. But we do want him ready to run any leg of the relay. So that kind of told me, again, they weren't making a guarantee, but like, hey, we want to use him, just have him ready. And the advantage that he has is he's been running relays all year because he's on a high school team.

You know, pros don't run relays very often. College, they do more. But high school, we do, we don't do it. every race or every meet, because our team is, we're pretty competitive nationally. And so we pick and choose our spots, but, you know, we broke the high school national record indoors and he was on that team, obviously anchored it. And we wound up being the number one team in the country outdoors, and he anchored that as well. And we finished second, oh, third at Penn Relays, because we had a fall and all that kind of

and that was even epic because he went, he brought us back from oblivion, split of 44 and it went viral. but he got really experienced. So to answer your question, I really think they're going to utilize him in the 4x4 in the rounds. Again, this is just me. I don't have any insider on this. I think they'll use them in the rounds. It all depends on, you know, just like any sport, injury. Injury could happen if one of the top guys, because he came in six, one of the top three or four guys go down.

One year we had several guys go down and we were really struggling to field a relay at the Euro world championship level for the Team USA. day. If that happens, they can put him in. Also, you know, people are just off. You know, if he's on and they're off, they can put him in. A lot of different variables. But then there's also something called the Mix Relay, right? So what they do, they have two males and two females from the same country and they put them on the same team, which is really cool. So both Jeniers get a chance to, you know, join each other on the track at the same time. So he may be one of the two for the mixed relay, at least in the rounds. And I just think, you know, they get it. Everybody wants to see this kid run. I mean, just get them on the track. I mean, for the sheer fact

of it, this is history of the making and the world is now looking. I think they'll find a way to get him on there, but they're not doing any favors at the same time because he's earned every bit of it, and he is a force to be reckoned with when you put a stick at his hand or whenever he's on the track. So how's he handling all this? So, again, that's the cool part about this, Ken, like, he's enjoying it like a 16-year-old award. So when I gave him the call, I messed with him a little bit. I mean, I told you, I said, I finally got the call from the only committee and got some unfortunate news.

You do. I'm sorry to say that, yeah, you're going to have to go to Paris and represent him to USA. He's like, oh, my gosh. He's not running around the house. screaming like a kid. And he doesn't have a deep voice yet, too. Sorry, Quentin, if you're listening to this. His voice is still high, which makes it even better.

He's not shaving. He doesn't have this deep voice. He's like, oh, my God. You know, so he's super excited. He's got, he can't stop smiling. He told me, I just found this out, something we did yesterday. He didn't go to sleep until like 5 o'clock in the morning. And he got the news.

We did the coach. I'm like, okay, buddy, you need to sleep. You know, I get it. You know, I mean, who wouldn't be excited? I mean, anybody who gets to call to be on team that's excited, let alone a high school sophomore. So he's taken it great. He's been real gracious to do as much as he can as far as, you know, just interviews and just, you know, people who want his time. The cool part is he's out of school now, so he really doesn't have anything to do, but eat sleep and train.

But, you know, he's always been that way. I mean, this is new for, you know, America and it's new for, you know, America and it's new for, you know, the household name kind of deal, but he once that race happened back in 2020, I told you about, in the track and field, high school world, and he became somewhat of a celebrity. I don't like

using that term for a kid, but that's really what happened. I mean, he couldn't, you know, stop and, you know, be going to anywhere without people wanting to take pictures and wanting his autographs, and he's always been gracious. That's the great thing I love about him. It's that he's very humble and kind, and

that's a testament to his parents and how they raised him. and if he can't do it, I can't do it in the middle of a warm-up, he'll say, I'm sorry, I'm warming up. Can we do this when I'm done? He just doesn't say, no, no, no, no pictures, no pictures. We've seen that before. That's kind of all putting, but he's exactly the opposite way. So he's handling a grade, and that's what makes people in dear to me even more. Like, oh, he's actually a nice kid.

He's a good kid. He's actually a straight-A student. Yeah. So all this, it just makes for a great story. He couldn't script it better, but it's not scripted at all. Like, this is really, this is really him, is really who he is. What will he eventually be best at, the 400? That's the million-dollar question, bro.

You know, everybody has an opinion on that. And me as a coach, I'm going to count one, two, three, really four events, I believe he could be the best in the world at at some point in time, depending on where he chooses to focus. The good news is indoors, you know, indoors is they have more events, like the 300 and the 500 and 600, so he kind of mixes it up indoors, outdoors

we laser out on the 400 although he ran the 800 one time. Now, the 800, there's an argument in the track and field community on what's tougher, the 400 or the 800. If you ask 40 people, we will say because I was a former runner at Howard and

George Mason, we'll say it's the 400, but if you have to A of people, they'll say it's the 8. So he goes out there with a meet back in April and he says, Coach, I think I want to run 8 today. Just half passes just randomly, out the blue.

Wait, what? You want to run 8? Now, we haven't trained for it. Now, again, the 800 is a bit more aerobic. It's less sprinting involved. So that's why they call the 800 meter run and not the 800 meter dash. So, like, okay.

Now, mind you, on our team, we have a kid named Colin Abrams, and he is the number two 800-meter runner in the country. He came in seconded indoors, broke the all-class, all-junior-class record, ran 149, which is crazy fast for anybody, especially for a high school junior. So he's in that race. Collins is in that race.

Number two kid in the country. Quincy jumps in, no training, no pre-work, no any, any, you know, thing that we would do to prepare for in 800, and he goes up there and wins. Oh, my God. His teammate, Collins, like, dude, like, who are, are you? I've been doing this all my life. You just jump in and come and win. It was cool because they're a really close friend, so there wasn't any kind of rival of beef there, but it just goes to show you, like, when he puts his mind to something, like, it's a rap. So I count four,

maybe five events that he could be great, and I'm going to speak with four. So it really all depends on him. And there's another phenom in the sport. And you may have heard her name. Her name is Fendoneman McLaughlin. Lovroney. She just got married recently. But she's the other 16-year-old who made the Olympic team. She was older than Quincy, but she's the female version of Quincy, or I just say the male version of her because she's older, and she's got

versatility. She can go down to 200, she can go up to the 400, she's around the 400 hurdles, which she has holds her world record in now. I think she broke the war record at 21 years old or something like that, and she keeps breaking it. So she could go up to 800 she wants to,

so they get a lot of comparisons there between the two of them, because when you have that type of talent, is she an American? Sure. She is. Okay. She'll see her. She'll be the heavy favorite for the golden and the 400 million hurdles,

as well as she'll be on the 4x4 she'll anchor the 4x4 unless something happens with, you know, injury or whatever, but she is the she's the biggest name in track and field based upon what she has done. I know she Carrie Richardson gets a lot of publicity and promo, rightfully.

So because it's 100, and a hundred of the glamour of in track and field, but Sidney McLaugh and Lovone is, she is that deal, she is the LeBron names of track and field and people are comparing him to her, and also, like I said, they're LeBron, too.

It's quite insane. This has been great. Congratulations. Joe's built an absolute powerhouse track and field program at Bullis, not just locally, but nationally as well during his 10 to 11

years in Potomac. It'll be exciting. I would assume you're going, right? Yeah, it's funny. We're working that out now because I was embarrassingly you say that on your podcast. My password has expired. I just coach it

all the time. So I've got to get my password going. Somebody should be able to expedite that, can't they? Well, the good thing is I talk to my head of school when we should realize I think we might need to get me ready to go to Paris.

I think he's about to make the team, and he made it. So he said, yeah, we'll help you with that. And then he dropped a pretty big name on me. He said, I'll just call it this person. I was like, really? I don't want to say the person's name, but it's pretty high up there in the government. And I said, wow, okay, sure. So I think I'll be good.

But, yeah, I'm going to go with him. And, again, he's 16. I'm not going to send him. I mean, his parents would be there, too, but I would never send a 16-year-old to go the biggest stage in the world by himself, because even with his boys and composure, I mean, he's still a kid, and we want to make sure that, you know,

he's riding, ready to go. And, you know, plus I want to see it, too, as a fan. I'm like, I want to see the 16-old kid do what he can do if he gets in and, you know, continue to make this story. Great for everyone to watch him, see. Well, I hope it works out. Congrats not only for Quincy and your role in that, but congrats on your success at both.

I really appreciate this. This was great. I think we'll all be watching at the end of the month. Sounds good. Thanks, care for having me. I appreciate you. I really hope we get a chance to see Quincy Wilson run in Paris. I mean, he's become such a big story

heading into the summer games. But even if we don't get a chance to see him run in Paris, think about this. It's 16 years old. He's probably got three to four more Olympic games to go. Next up is 2028 in Los Angeles. I would think that would be the first chance for him to be prominently featured, maybe as a 400 meter or perhaps more, as Joe Lee described.

There's really no limitation on what he potentially may end up specializing in. But I would think in L.A. in 2028, there's a good chance, based on what he's done at 16 years old, that he'll be running the 400 meters. finished sixth in the final needed to finish in the top three to qualify for the Olympics and the 400 meters. But man, I mean, he may be running in the 2040 games. He'd be 32 years old in the 2040 games. I hope we're all around for those.

Anyway, all right, done for the day. Should be back on Monday. There's a chance I'll be traveling and may not be able to get to a podcast. on Monday. Worst case, I'll be back on Tuesday. Have a great weekend. Can you imagine being a 16-year-old kid standing on the track competing against three Olympians with a shot at going to the final and maybe going to Paris? Well, that's the story for this young man from the D.C. area, Quincy Wilson.