The Kevin Sheehan Show - Shame!

Episode Date: October 9, 2018

Kevin breaks down the Redskins' embarrassing loss to the Saints on Monday Night Football and compares it to other debacles in the past. His game recap includes very little good and lots of not-so-good. He eviscerates a confused defense and calls Alex Smith's performance brutal. JP Finlay calls in from New Orleans to talk about what he saw in the Superdome last night. Kevin also discusses the back-and-forth on Twitter between Josh Norman and Michael Thomas. He also goes back to Jason Garrett's 4th down decision to punt in overtime in the Cowboys' loss to Houston. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now, here's Kevin. I'm here. Aaron's here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, windonation.com, 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com to save Big on Windows. Stay tuned to hear about how you can save Big. How do you think ticket sales will go this week for the Carolina game? Oh my God. That was right there with some of the all-time embarrassing performances in recent franchise history. I mean, you've got the Monday Night Massacre, 59 to whatever it was at FedEx Field against the Eagles in 2010. 35-0-0 first quarter.

The Chiefs game, remember that one in 2013, in the snow and the sleet and the rain, 45 to 10. The swinging gate Monday nighter against the Giants. That's the all time. In 2009. Last night was the Drew Breeze game, I guess. 43 to 19. Thanks to the Saints for not making it worse, because it certainly seemed as if they could have made it worse in the second half.

An embarrassing night, really, all together, especially when you consider it was coming off a buy week. A lack of professionalism night as well. One of those nights that has. fans of this organization, lifelong fan for me, it's one of those nights where even some of the aftermath tends to be a bit much and a bit embarrassing. And I will get to that a little bit later on. But let's get to my game take. Pay attention. He's Kevin's Game Take.

All right. There wasn't a lot of good. There was a lot of bad. And then a lot of other to get through. J.P. Finley is scheduled to join us. a little bit later on before he gets on his flight heading back from New Orleans. The good, well, look, if you're a football fan, Drew Breeze is fun to watch. You know, we had this conversation yesterday. He's not the greatest of all time. He's not even in that conversation. He's a lock first ballot Hall of Fame, or he's one of the best ever.

And you can certainly make the argument that he's somewhere between six, seven, and ten. I'd put him somewhere between 8 and 10, 8 and 11 somewhere around there. He's not the greatest of all time. He's not even the greatest of his era with Brady and Manning and Rogers, but he's great. I was really surprised, Aaron, that ESPN chose not to highlight his record breaking night very much. I mean, you just barely heard about Drew Bree's breaking a record last night.

I didn't know it was even happening until they decided to bring the kids on the field and stuff. It was annoying. It really was over the top. Now, in their defense, they didn't have a competitive game to talk about, so they kept going back to the record-breaking moment, and we had lots of full-screen kairns of career statistics and comparisons to others. And that was tough if you're rooting for the other team,

but if you're just a normal football fan, it was probably the right move by ESPN. So the good last night, which this is a rather sure, short list, starts with the opponent's quarterback, Drew Brees, who was sensational. 26 of 29 for 363 yards in three quarters, because he really didn't do anything in the fourth quarter. That, by the way, for those that were wondering on the math, is an 89.6% completion percentage. Anyway, you know, Dustin Hopkins made a 53-yard field goal. That should be on the list. And that was a big kick in the moment. It was 13 to 3. They needed it because if he didn't

make that kick, it was going to be 20 to 3 real quickly. But it kept a minute there early at 13 to 6. Good kick by Dustin Hopkins, 53-yard field goal. I actually thought Adrian Peterson when he touched the ball was pretty good last night. He had positive plays. The catch and run down that far sideline was really good. He took a big shot early on one of those checkdown throws by Charlie checkdown, Alex Smith. More on him coming up. It looked ugly for him, and he did say after the game, and it had nothing to do with

that hit, but that he's going to have some shoulder MRI surgery. Had his shoulder, basically, out of joint last night, dislocated. I will also just, I'm going to throw Chris Thompson into it, because I just like Chris Thompson. I think he plays really hard. I hope he didn't get hurt last night. My God, was that a stupid play on a two-point conversion that was completely meaningless down 43 to 19?

Your quarterback can't hit the ocean from a boat, and you've got him chucking one high to Chris Thompson at the goal line, which may have gotten Thompson hurt. Hey, look, Thompson, Peterson, Hopkins. I came up with a little bit of good. I will just say this too. I don't like Zach Brown in coverage. I just like Zach Brown everywhere else.

He plays fast. He plays with energy. He's relentlessly pursuing at all times. So does Mason Foster. All right, let's get to what was last night. The bulk of last night was really, really disappointing. I'm going to start with this. The performance lacked professionalism.

in a big measuring stick game, which I've talked about leading up to it last week and even yesterday, with a buy week to prepare for it, they laid a big time egg. It was an all-around awful performance. It was a self-inflicted mess to start with, with the penalties, the Monta-Nicholson penalty, the busted coverages. But really, it was just all around awful all night. You know, in addition to the coverage mix-ups, there was past, pro confusion.

The quarterback never looked comfortable. The Saints had 10 drives in the game and scored on eight of them. Eight out of 10. That will usually win you a football game. The final drive of the game would have led to a score, but they ran the clock out mercifully. It was really an ugly, ugly professional effort. I think we can put that discussion about one of the best defenses in the NFL on hold for at least a little bit. Now, I do believe it's better.

I think they've got some young talent on this defense. But I cautioned everybody that this would be the test. You know, Arizona was DOA. Green Bay had a one-legged quarterback, and the receivers in that game dropped four or five balls. They gave up three long drives to Indianapolis. The Saints didn't punt last night. They did not punt in the football game. Let's get into more specifics.

There was a lack of discipline clearly. The Nicholson penalty was as dumb as you will see. It was truly stupid. It was one of the three third down penalties that kept Drew Breeze and the Saints' offense on the field in the first quarter. The Nicholson penalty, though, this is something that you've got to, got to look at from a macro standpoint. We've talked about Camp J and loose J and, you know, no real sort of, no sort of, no culture of where

you're fearful of making a mistake like that. I don't know that Nicholson will even be punished for that. I don't know if there will be a deterrent created for others. and that's part of why I think Jay, and I've said this for multiple years running, is no better than sort of a middling coach, average coach. He does some things very well. He's an offensive guy. I like it.

I like the way he designs guys to get open. Be nice if they had a quarterback that would throw it to the guys that are open. More on that coming up. But there's always been sort of this lack of discipline with Jay Gruden. stupid penalties. It was an ugly night from that perspective. Again, going back to a performance that just lacked professionalism. The busted coverage are a major issue right now.

This secondary is really a mess. And let's not blame it on talent, okay? Because Dunbar's got some talent. The safeties definitely have some talent. Norman can't run anymore, but he is a high-eye kid. player, not prone to this kind of play. You know, Moreau was supposed to be this guy that could come in and play the slot for Fuller. He struggled last night.

Meredith had, you know, basically ate him alive start to finish. But you've had issues in almost every game except against, you know, the Cardinals who were not really ready for the regular season in that opener. You had the pick issues against the Colts that kept using pick. or fake picks to create wide open receivers. You had Allison in the Green Bay game running down the seam wide open by 10 yards for a touchdown. And then last night, multiple big plays where there seemed to be confusion, the lack of communication in the secondary. The record breaker by Drew Breeze, it was almost as if the team decided to play dead for the record breaker.

I mean, it was clearly a miscommunication on coverage. But this has been a running issue now, a season-long issue four games into the season. So we're now a quarter of the way into the season. And they seem to have major issues covering people consistently. Communication busted coverages. They better get it fixed because it's not like they've got this lethal pass rush. They can make everything on the back end better. You know, Norman and Gruden apparently got into it at halftime.

Gruden alluded to it after the game. That's why Norman sat the first series of the third quarter. And that didn't work out real well for the rookie Greg Stroman from Virginia Tech because he was beaten a couple of times, including on the touchdown, to start the third quarter. They've also not reacted well to screen. Remember how good Kendall Fuller was against the screen last year? whether it was bubble screen or traditional sort of running back screen.

They got burned on the screen last night, and they better fix that too because two teams coming up that love to screen you. Carolina with McCaffrey and Dallas with Elliott. So they better figure that out before Sunday against the Panthers. Let's get to the offense. I mean, where do we begin? I think we got to start with the quarterback. Alex Smith was bad last night.

I mean truly horrible for much of the game. He's had issues reading coverage and reading the pressures so far. This is a problem because the things that he was supposed to be really good at were the IQ things. All right? Reading coverage is finding the right places to go and getting there quickly. There were receivers open. And while the protection wasn't good and the offensive line is still having issues with stunts and twists and

these things that have been mentioned here over the first four weeks as if they're new things, they're not. D-lines have been stunting and twisting forever. The offensive line, especially the interior of the offensive line, appears to be having issues with that. But Alex Smith had enough time to get it

out quickly to the right places for big plays, and he didn't. Before the pick six, he had at least two opportunities on that drive to get the ball out quickly to wide open guys. Crowder was open, and he checked it down to Richardson on the play before, I'm sorry, a couple of plays before the pick six. The play right before the interception that he threw that got a return for a score, he had Vernon Davis wide open if he threw it quickly and threw it in rhythm. Then on the interception, okay, on the pick six,

Crowder was open if he threw it right away. These were big, play mainstays the last few years with the other guy. You know, the other guy that was a terrible leader, and now they've got this great leader who can't read defenses and read blitz pressures or foe blitz pressures. Look, Alex Smith can do this. We know he can do it. He is performed at a high level.

But I've said this multiple times since the trade. You better have a running game with Alex Smith. He's not the last guy. I've been trying to tell you that. I'm not saying that the last guy was elite. And I know the last guy made some big time mistakes with the game on the line. He also had 12 fourth quarter comebacks, which was fourth best in the league over three years.

But Alex Smith has to have a balanced attack. All right. Must have a running game. or it's going to be a long season for him. He's not a drop back, throw it 40 times a game against 19 runs, and put up 340 yards passing with three touchdowns to keep you in a game without a running game and without a defense. He needs to get up to speed very quickly on a lot of things.

Last night, they put up the blitz numbers at one point last night. He was two for eight for 29 yards, an interception, and a sack against the blitz. that was late in the third quarter. That has to change because it's been a strength of the team the last three years. All right, they didn't trade their best corner, a third round pick, and give them a contract extension to handle the blitz like a rookie quarterback. This better be near the top of Jay Gruden's to-do list.

They've got to do what they've done in the past, and that is torch teams who send extra pass rushers. you've got to be able to take advantage of that. Jay Gruden's offense is designed to take advantage of that. They've got playmakers who can take advantage of that. The quarterback's got to be better. He's got to be better. I know he's a world-renowned leader

and that everybody in the executive group in Ashburn love him and love his leadership ability. He's got to be able to handle the blestown. pressure, okay? He's got to be better, a lot better. I think he will get better. I think he and Gruden will develop something, will work on some things together,

but you could tell Jay Gruden it was a head scratcher for him. The throw he made to Thompson on the meaningless two-point play, I mean, kick it, Jay, in that spot, please. Your guy hasn't been able to throw anybody open, and they hung Thompson out to dry. Thompson's arguably one of the three best players on the team. The pass protection wasn't great, but it hasn't been great for a while. I mean, there were many times last year where they had terrible pass pro,

especially when they had four new offensive linemen in the game because of the injuries. But Moses did get beat a couple of times. Sheriff's gotten beat. There seems to be, again, some communication issues on the interior. Smith was dropped twice on the second drive of the game. And again, I think that if they're honest with everybody, some of that will be on Smith. Some of it will be on the offensive line.

But this is an issue. They've got to be able to take advantage of soft coverages, which they've been shown now in multiple games thus far. They've got to be able to run the football for this particular quarterback. I hope that Bruce Allen and Doug Williams and Eric Schaefer and Jay Gruden, before they made this trade and gave him a contract extension, knew that they had to be able to run the ball with this guy.

That this guy may be a lot different in good ways than the last guy, but the last guy didn't need a running game to move the football. This guy has to have it. Where the hell was Jordan Reed last night? I mean, my God. I mean, I can appreciate. I can appreciate. and I don't get upset like many of you do

when you hear the coach or the quarterback say that coverage dictated going in other places. I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with if Jordan Reed doesn't get a touch, but you're moving the ball elsewhere because Jordan Reed's taking a lot of the defensive focus and the coverage is dictating going elsewhere. But if you're not producing elsewhere

when Jordan Reed isn't being. being targeted, you better then tear up that plan and figure out how to get your best player of the football. Fun stat. Drew Breez had as many catches at Jordan Reed last night. Yes, he did off that deflection. Let me be clear on that. I've never been the guy to say, you got to get your best player the football. How is it that he didn't get targeted? I don't have a problem with that with the answer being coverage dictated that the quarterback go in a different direction if when he goes in the other direction, people are catching it and moving the chains and scoring points.

But when the other guys aren't catching the ball, you better work up something on a napkin that get your best player the football. All right, a few other things. Back to the Nicholson penalty. It was the second push. Like, he was frustrated with Ingram to start with. But he had a chance to sort of say. I hope that didn't get a flag there.

That was dumb. Because the first push didn't get the flag. It was the stupidity of the second push to the ground that drew the flag. How about Pernell McPhee's attempt to recover a fumble or lack of an attempt to recover a fumble? On the first play of the second quarter, Ingram catches a pass, fumbles. The ball's right there for what appeared to be an easy fumble recovery. but Pernell McPhee, he's number 96 in your program if you didn't know that. He just sort of strolls in the direction of where the ball is on the ground.

No great urgency to go get it, standing up. Could have dove for it. Instead, Ingram was a little bit more urgent and he was able to recover it. God, that was an opportunity there. Why did New Orleans go for two? Several of you tweeted me that during the game. At that point, it was 26 to 6, and it was off the record breaker. If you didn't know, they got a celebration penalty.

The Saints did for that. Did you see that? The record breaker, they flagged him for a celebration penalty. It was Thomas specifically. Was it Thomas? I think so. I don't know why New Orleans went for two. I mean, you know, they weren't getting stopped, and Peyton's over there going,

let's just cap it off, the cap off this nice night with a two-pointer. It really was, though, one of those things, you know, and I talk about this all the time with coaches that struggle with math. It's like, you don't really know that it was the wrong decision until the other team comes back and all of a sudden you're down one,

but of course that was never going to happen last night. But the Redskins did get that turnover, you know, towards the end of the first half, which gave them a chance to score their touchdown on the Alex Smith quarterback draw, and it's 26-13, should have been 27 to 13. The Dunbar hold in the end zone,

I know a lot of you think that that was a bad call. I didn't. I know that there was contact within five yards, which is legal, and I know Thomas initiated the contact. I'm with you through all of that. But if you watch when Thomas turns inside, Dunbar grabs his jersey. He gets a jersey grab.

It's quick, but it impacted the play. That's going to get called almost every time. Certainly when it is seen, it's going to get called. A couple of other things just from the night. I thought Tress Way got roughed on that punt in the second quarter. They called it running into the kicker. He was vulnerable, leg up, up. Nobody was pushed or blocked into him. He was hit in a vulnerable position. That should have been

roughing the punter, roughing the kicker 15-yard first down. The, um, a couple of other observations. Taysom Hill is a weapon for New Orleans. You know, he's really, you know, this is what some other teams are trying to do, like Baltimore's trying to do with Lamar Jackson, you know, but Hill is not only fast, he's big and strong. Really big and strong. over. Yeah, he ran over Preston Smith on a fourth down go-ford situation. He's a really good red zone option for a team

that really doesn't even need it. It's not like with Drew Brees and Kamara and Ingram and Thomas and company that they really need gimmickery. Is that a word, gimmickery? It should be. They don't need gimmicks to score.

And I don't, you know me, I don't think that Zone Reed is a gimmick by any stretch of the imagination. and every single team has it and uses it. But it is a really good red zone option for them. Danny Johnson on kickoff returns, and they had a lot of opportunities for kickoff returns last night, considering how often New Orleans was kicking off.

Now, they kicked it out of the end zone a bunch, but on a couple of them, Danny Johnson had returns. He got walloped on one of them. I mean, that's one of the better hits you'll see on special teams. But he's got some speed to him. I'd like to see him get more opportunities. There. Look, it's one game.

There's still two and two. But for a game that was, in my view, a game that would be telling as to what they were capable of, they failed miserably. The defense is going to be okay. I do believe that eventually. But right now, it looks confused and poorly coached. You know, it could be the players, but we're now four games into the same. season and we've seen busted coverages and confusion in the secondary. Go back to the indie game.

Remember on a touchdown where luck put the game away, there was a massive confusion on who had the tight end that ended up scoring. I think it was Doyle or whoever the tight end was that day. I still believe in the defense and the talent. I hope they're going to get coached up here better because they'll have better results. I really believe that. I believe the defense will have some games where the results will be very good. But last night was like a true signal measuring stick type of situation, and they were outwitted, out executed, out-efforted, everything. I still like their front seven. I do. I like Allen. I like ionitis. I like pain. I like their inside linebackers.

They got to get things fixed, though, because these coverage issues are going to be a problem, you know, down the road. They still play Matt Ryan. They still play Deshawn Watson. They still play Carson Wentz twice. You know, in December when maybe he's back, you know, feeling better about things and in rhythm and healthy. You know, they got Cam Newton coming up.

The offense went against a team. Let's be fair here. Okay, I've been critical of the offense here, and of Alex Smith in particular, and justifiably so. His performance was brutal last night. Brutal. And this was against a team

that hasn't been able to do anything against anybody with their defense. Ryan Fitzpatrick lit him up, torched him. Everybody's moved the ball against New Orleans and scored points. If you're a decent offense, you're moving the ball. The Redskins right now are not a decent offense.

They're inconsistent with their running game. They've got to figure out how to be more consistent with their running game because that's going to help the quarterback. That's what he's always needed. At the same time, when in the J. Gruden era have they ever been consistent with a running game? And now with Adrian Peterson potentially injured, who knows, he's 33 years old, but he's going to have an MRI. Look, he's a freak, and he looks great.

But this game Sunday against Carolina, it feels to me right now, like a bounceback type of game, you know, like the Green Bay game was. But a second straight loss, and two and three, and, you know, I, you've got to be aware of this particular locker room,

and I know we've been told over and over again how solid it is and how they finally have a true leader at quarterback, but they better beat Carolina on Sunday, or I have a feeling this thing could really unravel quickly. Look, they've got games they can win coming up, both of them at home. Let's hope it feels like a home game because they didn't help themselves with ticket sales with last night's performance.

But they've got two home games coming up. Carolina and Dallas. And they're going to have to figure out how to win absolutely one of them. You can't drop both of them. The Cowboys aren't very good. Look, it's Panthers, Cowboys at Giants. Three games that aren't going to be the Saints. You're not facing the Saints or the Packers in the next three games.

Carolina's good. They're potentially very good. But it's at home and you better be a desperate, better prepared. football team Sunday against Carolina. Last night truly was an embarrassment. Let me tell you about Windon Nation, because they're not an embarrassment. Harley and Aaron, they're the best. They have been behind me since I left the radio station to start this podcast.

They reached out to me. They said, what do you need us to do? And I said, I'd like you to buy some advertising on this podcast. And they said, done. They had my back at 980 for a decade plus, and they're with me now, which is why I ask you, if you are thinking about new windows, and especially given that winter's right around the corner, reach out to Windon Nation. You'll get a free quote. Like it's a no-brainer, no risk to call them up at 86690 Nation and have them come out and give you a free estimate. Halloween's this month.

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But there's more. If you purchase a house of windows this week, Windonation will pay your utility bills until your new windows are installed. Call 86690 Nation or visitwindonation.com by this Sunday, and they will pay your utility bills until your new windows are installed. 86690 Nation or windownation.com. Let's bring in NBC Sports Washington's J.P. Finley, who is about to get onto a plane in lovely New Orleans

to head back to Washington where we are just based, and the embarrassment of last night. I want to start with this. Did you get any sense, any sense being with the team all last week during the bye week that they had this kind of performance in store? I really believe there was as much optimism about this team early in a season as we've had in a long time. And last night sort of came out of nowhere.

Yeah, no, I didn't expect this type of performance, Kevin. thought, I mean, I said before the game, I wasn't sure the Redsians could win, but I certainly thought they would cover. I was expecting this to be a tight, fought ball game, and, you know, maybe Drew Brees playing in front of the Superdome crowd and breaking that passing yard record with too much for the skins to overcome. But I thought it was going to be a tight contest. And frankly, we kind of saw the makings of that early on. It's hard to, it's hard to say that now. They just got drubbed. But if Monta Nicholson doesn't take that incredibly stupid penalty with the personal foul,

after Kerrigan Sachs breeze to force the Saints off the field, they'd be punning. The Redskins would be driving. They had just put together a good drive. And instead, you get that really dumb personal foul penalty on Nicholson. The Saints then get a first down, go on to score, and the skins just never were able to keep up. You know, getting field goals instead of touchdowns when you get down in the end zone is a bad recipe.

And then once the cracks started to show, particularly in the secondary, that thing was over. And, you know, they got pretty lucky with that fumble recovery late in the first half that they were able to get a touchdown on if they could have gotten a stop to open the second half. If they get a three out on that first Saints offensive drive, maybe they have a chance. And the opposite happened. They gave up the PD.

Then they gave up another one. And it was just a boat race at that point. It was a boat race. And, you know, that's usually my tact to take that optimistic route of if Monta Nicholson hadn't done the stupid thing that he did to continue a drive that maybe it would have been a different night. And, you know, I'm all for the discussion of these fine lines and football games. but their back end had no chance last night to hold up.

And I thought that that was a revelation of sorts. They're not going to play Drew Breeze and Michael Thomas in the Saints every week. But absent of any significant pass rush, that back end seems to be a problem right now. They seem to be a mess, Kevin. I'd say more than a problem. There's confusion rains. And it's, you know, Josh Norman got benched to start the second half.

That's not supposed to happen. And how does, how do they get there? How do they kind of turn that thing around? I think you saw Quentin Dunbar on the sideline very upset. DJ Swanger, very upset in the locker room after the game. Dunbar's played pretty well for them. I had a couple penalty calls last night, but not sure you can really, the one in the end zone on him, I thought it was a joke.

and that was another third down penalty that gave the same new life. They've got to figure out what's going on back there because it seems like not of the four secondary players, the two stages in the two corners, they're not all on the same page consistently, week after week. And we saw it in the Packers game on the big throw to Toronto Allison. Yeah, exactly.

But you're kind of able to dismiss that, hey, they played really well. They gave up one big play. They'll figure it out. On a night where DeRees sets a new passing record and on the throw that broke the record, there was nobody within 15 yards of a wide over receiver streaking down the field. No, it's been busted coverages and confusion in the secondary, really since they faced that high school offense in the opener against Arizona, because if you go back to the indie game, it was massive communication issues with picks.

You know, they're getting picked the entire game. And then, you know, you just mentioned the Green Bay play. and then last night, there's a whole lot of people running free by, you know, you're talking about 8 to 10 yards of separation where it's obvious on replay that somebody, you know, wasn't in the right place and didn't go with the right guy. It's become very clear, and the games are going to have to work on that. You've got to wonder what is going on with Norman that he got benched, and we all kind of know he's an emotional, fiery guy,

and it seems like that was more of the situation than his play. Higurden said it was just a decision he had to make to sit Josh down. But if you listen to what DJ Sweringer often says, and then you compare that to what Josh Norman often says, a lot of times it seems like three members of the Redskine secondary are on the same page, and Norman is not. You know what, to JP, Morrow had a lot. a tough night. Even when they were matched up in the right spots against the right guys,

Moreau seemed to struggle as much as anybody did last night. The guy Meredith that he had in a slot had a field day against him. We're talking to J.P. Finley, NBC Sports, Washington, who's nice enough to join us here before he gets on a flight coming back. There are a couple of things I want to get to and more with hopefully more specifics, and that is this Norman Gruden thing. Gruden said afterwards you were there. I was watching that it was an issue at halftime between Gruden and Norman. The coach

didn't want to go into details, but he clearly benched him to start the second half, and poor Greg Stroman came in and got torched a couple of times, including on the touchdown. Immediately, right. And what do we know about that situation? I think we're going to learn

much more this week. It's, we don't have, I was, The Redskins' PR staff did a good job of kind of getting to Norman before he talked to the media because he didn't really provide any insight. He had one kind of weird analogy where he explained, you know, sometimes soldiers just want to do things on their own, but you've got to listen to the captain. Kind of, I think, comparing that he wants to try and fix this thing, but he needs to listen to the head coach. I think that was just a discipline issue. and I'll be very curious what comes out between Sweringer and Norman,

two players that have known each other a long time that often grow frustrated with one another. Quentin Dunbar was extremely fired up last night in the locker room after the game. I think a lot of that had to do with kind of the shalacking they took and what the Redskins secondary really thought were over-the-line antics from Michael Thomas. So, you know, the next time we really get to talk to the players officially won't be till Wednesday afternoon. I'm curious what, if anything, comes out kind of between now and then. Yeah, DJ Swaranger said Michael Thomas was a clown.

He and some of the Redskins' defensive backs complained that Thomas was too active after the whistle, hitting them in the leg, other stuff. Sweringer said, quote, he's just a clown, just clowning, just doing little petty stuff after the play. petty stuff after the play the referees would call if it wasn't history night for Drew Breeze. It sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. What was Michael Thomas doing, if anything? And then was this taken further by Josh Norman, apparently on Twitter. But you would mention before we got on this call that there's, there was some, you know,

potential other issues. What was going on in that locker room after the game? It was a very angry, unhappy place. It was mostly silent, few kind of outbursts and just like anger. Nothing too, too different from normal with a bad loss like that. But, you know, I think if you look back on the play Dunbar got flagged for in the end zone, Michael Thomas had Dunbar by the face mask and was clearly grabbing it and like turning it to the side, which is kind of the, you know, sometimes you grab a face mask inadvertently and you can tell a player let's go as soon as he figures it out.

There are others where you can see you're kind of using that leverage against your opponent and it can be pretty dangerous, frankly. You can, you know, wrench somebody's neck pretty good, pretty quick. And certainly on that play, what looked like was going on there. you know I think I think on some level you're right it is sour grapes especially there was a there was a there was a scene late in the second half when the Superdome staff the Superdome I guess production plays really really loud music in there and they were playing this song get your roll on I don't know if you remember it but Michael thomas is dancing on the sideline and then they put him on the big screen, and he really started dancing on the sideline.

And the entire Redskins defense saw it. He couldn't help but notice it. The crowd went crazy. I certainly think just that little scene bothered them pretty significantly, too. Let me just say this. I'm trying to pull up the play as I'm sitting here talking to you. There was a facemask grab by Thomas on the play where Dunbar nearly had a pick, He knocked it down on the fade.

I actually thought, JP, at first, it wasn't a hold on the next play. But then if you see, Dunbar actually does grab some Jersey when he turns to move. I didn't think that was an awful call. I want to go back and look at that play if you're talking about the play where he got called for a hold if he grabbed face mask on that one, too. I might have a mixed up, too, Kevin. It's all right. It's early, man. Yeah, I know.

What about injuries? So what about this Adrian Peterson MRI that's scheduled? I mean, AP very casually, he's like, yeah, I dislocated my shoulder. That's why I didn't play much. Jay Gruden said he just, you know, I think Gruden only said he strained it or sprained it. I can't recall. The MRI reveal kind of what comes next. But the truth with shoulders most of the time, anytime you get in that AC joint,

there's not a heck of a lot you can do outside of rest. rest really isn't an option. And you saw last night, whether or not it should be the plan, Redskins are entirely reliant on a 33-year-old running back that they signed in mid-August to run their offense. So they need AP, and if he's not there, then all of a sudden you wonder kind of what comes next offensively and they have to lean on Chris Thompson like they did last season.

And we don't know what happened with Chris either. I didn't, I don't even think I saw him last night. He took the really big shot down on the goal line on a pretty meaningless two-point conversion. I think you can, I think you can legitimately ask why he was on the field. I think more than that, you can ask, the ball Alex Smith threw was terrible and it's going to get guys hurt when you go high and over the middle. I don't know how we haven't talked about Smith yet. He was awful. I'm saving it.

This is where I want to go next. And then I wanted you get on the plane. You know, when this trade was made, the one thing, you know, I discussed within you and everybody else, and I think everybody that watched Alex Smith a lot in Kansas City understood this, this is not a guy that you're going to succeed with if you're not balanced. If you don't have a running game, and right now, like the two games where they haven't been able to run the ball, he has struggled. This is not the guy they have had the last three years.

I'm sorry to say that, but that guy didn't need a running game to complete passes to get it out quickly and to move the football. We don't have to talk about the other stuff, but they're not the same guy. Now, last night, what really troubled me, and you saw it towards the, in the second half of the Green Bay game, is I don't think he is seeing the pressures. I think sometimes he thinks there's pressure and there isn't, and then when there is pressure, he doesn't see it. And if they don't get the whole, you know, seeing and recognizing blitz pressure or non-blitz pressure and reacting appropriately, it's going to be a long season because he has not looked right in any one of these four games except against Arizona for a quarter and Green Bay for a quarter. He never seemed comfortable in the pocket last night, and that is a major problem. Jay Gruden, after the game, talked about, hey, I've got to call better plays to keep him comfortable in the pocket.

But you've got a veteran. I mean, this is a guy that's pin in the NFL. He's had big games and big spots. That's crazy that the coach can't call a five-step drop because you're not going to be able to handle the pressure or instinctually feel it coming. I don't know. I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, I don't think, particularly good for the skins, but he's been, you know, fine too good. Last night he was awful. I wonder, and I'd have to go back and look statistically,

and it's tough because you pile up some yards late in the game, but I'd love to know if that's when he's had a worse game than that. He's had them. I mean, Kansas City had some of those stretches where, you know, even last year where they struggled to move the football and struggled to score. Right. But the thing that really with last night is even when he struggled, he doesn't turn the ball over. I mean, it's well documented that he protects the football. I mean, that's one of the things the Redskins really liked about him.

He talks about Kirk. That was one of his big problems, that he was turnover prone, especially kind of with some of the fumbles that we always focus on interceptions. But Alex Smith was turning the ball over last night, too. Like if you're going to be more of a protector, a guy that protects the football doesn't really lead to big plays, it doesn't give them up either. You can't be turning it over. The pick he threw when he had Boris Harris wide open for what could have been an easy touchdown and Harris was open for literally three or four seconds before the ball even came out, that interception is terrible.

I mean, just remarkably bad. Yeah, look, that one, you know, at that point, the night had already gone a little bit south for him, and it was fourth down, and they're getting their ass kicked. And the thing that I saw in the Green Bay game in the second half at times against Indy, actually there have been a couple of issues. Number one, they have not taken advantage of soft zone coverage like they would have last year or the year before by just playing pitch and catch. You know, they haven't done that yet.

maybe that's a Jay Gruden, Alex Smith, have to figure it out thing and have to get more sort of, you know, time together. I don't know. But then you've got the issue of pressure and what it's done to them. You go back and you look at that Green Bay game, even when they didn't send pressure, he thought it was coming and he got out of the pocket and didn't make any plays. And last night, you know, took some big sacks and you just go back to, you know, Jay Gruden offenses, even thinking about Andy Dalton. It's about recognizing that pressure and getting it out quickly to a guy and letting that guy make a play. And a lot of people will say, well, that's just check down football. No, that's avoiding sack football.

That's moving the chains football. And they did it a little bit early. But I just am concerned that if they don't have a consistent run game with this guy, that it's going to be difficult for him. Very difficult. He really has not done it, San Francisco or Kansas City, without back. balance. For sure.

I told it. There's no evidence to refute that claim, and I think last night showed it, they couldn't run the ball. The indie game, they couldn't run the ball. I wonder how much of the blame needs to go towards the offensive line. They were bad again last night. They've been bad in a couple of games now. I think Brandon Sheriff is playing much more hurt than really we all know.

and frankly, I mean, you get that kind of effort from the line where Smith is getting beat up pretty consistently, you know, pretty consistently. And the happy feet aren't that much of a shock when you see him running out of the, you know, getting out of the pocket a little too quick. There was no comfort in the pocket. Like, you know, not to compare to some of the best quarterbacks, but one of the most amazing things when you watch Tom Brady play is that, that he stays in the pocket and just makes the slightest, most subtle movements and is able to maintain his feet or his footwork. And we saw the really exact opposite from Alex Smith class. All right. Go get on a plane. No other other than AP and Chris Thompson, any other serious injuries that should be concerned about this week? I don't believe so. We'll know more today once we talk to

but I don't think there were other injuries last night. I'm going through my mind. AP and Thompson, I think that's it, honestly. Yeah, Paul Richardson was banged up a little bit too, I think. Oh, me. Yeah, yeah. Yep. All right. So get on a plane. Richardson had a knee situation. Thanks for getting up early and doing this. Appreciate it. I'll talk to you later. Okay. Have a good flight back. Take care. Thanks to J.P. Finley from NBC Sports, Washington. Also, thank you to Ralph Perkins and Kevin Ferris from Ferris, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Fairfax.

I'm back doing this podcast, and like when Donation, Ferris reached out to support this new venture. Ralph Perkins is a real person. I've talked about him for over a decade. He runs Ferris, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, and Fairfax. He's in the store every day, and I promise you, if you walk in there and say, can I speak with Ralph Perkins, or may I speak with Ralph Perkins? They will go get him because he's there every day and he'll come out and say hello. They are great, wonderful people.

And more importantly, they've got a ton of inventory and great deals on vehicles. If you want to save big on a Jeep Grand Cherokee, now is the time to act. You can go see online everything they have, live inventory, live pricing at ferrishcars.com. But if you head out to Farish, they're located right there in Fairfax Circle. Again, ask for Ralph when you get there. Tell them I sent you. and ask about the things that you are looking for. They have the best in trucks, in SUVs, in cars.

They've got great deals on everything. If you're in the market for a minivan, a Chrysler Town and Country, or a Dodge Grand Caravan, very good deals on those right now as well. Farish Cars.com or just head out to Farish and Fairfax. They're right there in Fairfax Circle. All right. Something else happened.

JP just mentioned it and I'm pulling up right now because Aaron told me to do so all of the tweets from Josh Norman in particular and Michael Thomas. This is an interesting situation from last night after the game

and I'm just going to tell you right now to me this is this is loser talk this is you know sour grapes loser discussion but basically Michael Thomas said, tweeted out, I made that boy check out after the first half talking about Norman. Norman responds, you clout chasing and then an emoji of a clown with an exclamation point. You clout chasing clown 25 times lined it up toe to toe.

And basically then he's got parenthetically blocking decoy to imply that when he was on Michael Thomas, Thomas was nothing more than a blocking decoy. And Josh Norman continues, outcome of that 0-0-0-exclamation point, exclamation point. Like, you didn't get anything on me. Drew didn't even look your damn way. And he writes, that was a waste of a tweet. All right?

So then Michael Thomas responds, zone corner, play your role, L-O-L, you don't even have. have no clout to chase. I didn't have to do nothing but punk you all day and watch you bus coverage is all game and cost your team. So who really a clown? And I'm going to bully you every time I see you just so you know.

And then hashtag sis. This, I mean, seriously. Oh, it continues. I guess hashtag sis is instead of hashtag bro. Then he says, Michael Thomas. Thomas goes, and got you still crying to the media in your cheap-a-suit. And in my mentions crying, you 30 years old, dude, life comes at you fast. And then Josh Norman had put out there again, 25 head-to-head with zero catches, zero targets, zero whatever.

Then Michael Thomas says, you, my son, go to bed, son. I was punking you all night. Give me a break. at your coach so he can put your so-called tough guy's self in timeout again. That's actually funny because Josh Norman was put in sort of a timeout to start the third quarter. That last one, again, Michael Thomas, was this the last one? No, the last one, he just actually tweeted out a little while ago. But hold on, this one's funny.

You, my son, go to bed, son. I was punking you all night. Give me a break. And then he at the coach, as in Jay Gruden, at your, coach so he can put your so-called tough guy self in time out again. Oh man, this is great. And then Josh Norman deleted the tweets,

which prompted another tweet from Michael... What was the other one? I can't find the other one. Here let me pass to you because I enjoy the way you read it. Oh, here it is. Here it is. You corny for deleting your tweets at J. No 24. We grown man, walk it like you talk it. Goofball con artist. This is my favorite part when we find out you not who you say you are.

Oh, this is great. This is great. 43 to 19 and Josh Norman's on Twitter talking about how Michael Thomas got nothing off of them. That's smart. Oh, boy. What an organization, huh?

What a game. So a couple of things before we wrap it up today. The Packers are keeping Mason Crosby despite his five-miss game. I didn't expect him to get cut after being there for 12 years. This is his 12th season in Green Bay. He's one of what six kickers in the league that could survive a game like that? There probably aren't many more than six.

Mike McCarthy said he's a proven highly successful kicker. I still believe in him. But he knows it. He's got to make those kicks. It's a different game at halftime if he makes this kick. So hopefully we'll learn from it and move on. That sounds like an ultimatum. That sounds like you better not.

have anything closely resembling a game like that or you'll be gone. A couple of other notes from the NFL weekend. I'm going to save the coaching blunders for tomorrow. I don't have a lot of them. I've got a couple of them from college, not many of them from the NFL, but I'm sure I'll be able to find some later today. So after a week of the roughing the passer problem being dialed back, this weekend was different.

11 roughing the passer penalties in week five. And none of them were of the Clay Matthews variety on Kirk Cousins or on Alex Smith. But some of them were really borderline incidental contact

penalties. Well, there was that one low one on, what was that Sunday night football? That was, the low, the low shot was on, no, the low shot was on Kirk Cousins in the Philadelphia game. Right. was on Kirk Cousins in the Philadelphia game.

So, you know, my hope was that they would really dial it back after they, you know, made sort of that assessment of the rule and a clarification of the rule. And I thought that there might be, you know, a correction on that. And there was for a week, but 11 more this weekend. That's a lot. I wanted to mention, too, that Jason Garrett doubled down for all. all intents and purposes on his decision not to go for the fourth and two, which was actually listed in the play-by-play as a fourth and one, but it was closer to a fourth and two. And I mentioned

this on the show yesterday. If you don't know what I'm talking about in the, in overtime of the Dallas Houston game, it was the first possession, Aaron, by the way, of overtime. The Cowboys were on the move, needing a touchdown to end the game. And they were at the Houston 42-yard line. And they, on third and two, Zeke Elliott on a read option style play actually got stopped for a no gain borderline loss. So it's set up fourth and a solid close to two. It was not fourth and one. And Jason Garrett punted and he took a lot of criticism for punting and not being aggressive in that spot. And Jerry Jones, his owner was one that criticized him as well, saying, you know,

we hadn't been doing anything all night. I'm paraphrasing here, it was time to get aggressive. No, in that spot, I mean, I watched that game start to finish, and Dallas couldn't run the football all night. They were struggling to move the football against Houston. And so their defense also simultaneously was pretty good. You had five something minutes left in overtime. In that spot, you try to punt, you try to pin him deep,

and you try to get a stop and get even better field position than you had just given up, which was a possibility if you pinned them inside the 10 and got a three and out stop. So I do not really understand the criticism of that. If you're watching the game in context, that's a punt situation. You go for it right there in context, watching that game and the way Dallas was struggling to gain yards, they couldn't run the football all night. Zeke Elliott averaged 2.7 yards per carry. You have to consider context, and the context was the chances were better that they weren't going to make the fourth in close to two than make it.

And so if you miss it, you're now basically giving Houston the ball close to midfield, and they are two first downs away from a field goal attempt to win the game. I think Jason Garrett did the right thing. I'm not a big Jason Garrett fan, but I think he did the right thing in that particular spot. in that game. It backfired to a certain degree. I mean, you know, Houston, they didn't get to stop defensively. DeAndre Hopkins, who right now may be one of the top three receivers in the NFL. He is one of the top three. I was going to say top three is, he might be top two. Well, statistically, he's number one right now. Right. I'm just talking talent-wise. You know, I don't know if he's better talent-wise than A.J. Green. I don't know if he's talent-wise

better than Julio Jones. He's right there. Michael Thomas is a beast, the guy we saw last night. Beckham Jr., talent-wise, but he's really good. He's got great hands. He's physical after the catch. He's a top three guy.

I mean, there's some, you know, I'm just thinking about receivers as I'm starting to go down this list. You know who's in that conversation? Adam Thielen. Yeah. You know who else is in the conversation? Stefan Diggs. You know who else is in the conversation? even though Jalen Ramsey said he's just a kick returner, Tyreek Hill as a pure weapon.

I mean, Mike Evans is a big, if Mike Evans weren't in Tampa right now, he'd be a beast somewhere else. And he's a beast there. I mean, you know, Fitzpatrick was throwing in the football. There are a lot of good receivers right now in the game. DeAndre Hopkins is a spectacular receiver, though. He's very, very good. Speaking of O'Dell Beckham really quick because you didn't get to.

that yesterday. What did you think of all that stuff this weekend? I think the giants are really in big trouble right now. And what's really, like, you talk about one game making potentially the difference between rallying the troops, enhancing the locker room dynamic, and getting them back into the thick of things versus it going completely the opposite way. That's what a 63-yard field goal did to the Giants on Sunday. Because, Aaron, the Giants have talent. The Giants have defensive talent. The Giants have offensive playmaking talent. You saw that they're going to cut Eric Flowers, I think. I did see that if they couldn't find a trade partner. Yes. So they've got some issues along the offensive line. And Eli Manning doesn't look like Eli Manning all of the time. But if they

had won that game Sunday at Carolina to get to two and three, I would have told you that the that I would have said there's a 50-50 chance the Giants are going to get back into this thing and have meaningful games in December. Because they do have talent. They really have talent. The Beckham Jr. thing, obviously, talent. Sterling Shepard, now Sequin Barclay, who does look like the real deal here through their first five games. You know, defensively, you know, Snacks Harrison, Ogletree, Collins, Jenkins, They've got players. They have players, but they're 1 and 4, too. This game Thursday night is a fascinating game in the NFC East, which right now on paper is the worst division in football.

You've got the Redskins at 2 and 2 still in first place, and then the Cowboys Eagles at 2 and 3 and the Giants at 1 and 4. You know, you look around the rest of the NFC, like the NFC North, 3-1, 2-2-1, 2-1, 2-1, 2-1, 2-3, but the lions are capable at 2-3. The Saints are four and one. The Panthers are three and one. And I don't, I mean, I still think Atlanta's good, but they're one and four.

And then the NFC West is obviously very top heavy. Although I think Seattle proved that this isn't like this major stepback Seattle year that people had anticipated. They're decent football team. They're going to have a chance here to get into the mix of a wild card race. Obviously, it's not going to happen in the division. that's not happening. But anyway, that giant Eagle game on Thursday night, I mean, the Eagles, you know, if they're going to be, and I think they'll end up being better,

and I think they'll work things out here, and I think in December the Eagles are going to have games to get into the playoffs and to win the division potentially. But, you know, they've got a brutal schedule. You know, they have Jacksonville, Carolina coming up, Jacksonville coming up, they play the Saints on the road, they play the Rams on the road, They play the Texans. You know, so the division games may not be, you know, super difficult, at least right now as you look at the NFC East.

But Carolina, Jacksonville, New Orleans, the Rams, and the Texans. And the Texans are good on defense. And Deshawn Watson is coming now. Like he is, took him a few games to get it going, but he is a weapon. Of course, they've got the Redskins twice in December. I don't know what the Redskins will look like at that point. I have no idea what this team is. And I'll finish with this thought.

Last night, it wasn't for sort of, you know, a show angle. It was really, really 100% the way I felt. I felt like last night was this measuring stick game that we haven't really seen a lot of in recent years early in the season in particular. That my belief was that the defense was very much improved, but we had to see it against a real offensive football team and that we would learn something about this team defensively in New Orleans. And unfortunately, what we learned is they have

a real difficult, messy situation on the back end right now that they have to get fixed. I think they're talented. I think they will improve. I think they will be better. But I cautioned everybody that was saying top five defense, top three defense, statistically, number one, that that's not what they were. You know, I thought they could be a top 10 to top 15 defense, which would be a massive improvement from last year. And I think next year will be even better if they keep adding pieces defensively. But there's something not right with this team from a coverage standpoint.

I don't know if it's coaching. I don't think it's talent. They're not lacking. It's not like their two safeties aren't. aren't talented. Nicholson and Sweringer can play. Dunbar can play. Moro's got some ability. Josh Norman can't run anymore. He can't run anymore. I don't know. He may be right about when he was matched up against Michael Thomas. Drew Brees looked the other way. Maybe that's true and maybe there's still some fear factor with Josh Norman. But I'll tell you what, on that record breaking

touchdown throw, that was busted coverage number four or five for the nine. and like number eight or nine for the season. You can't have that in four games. You can't have two to three busted coverage as a game. The measuring stick game measured this. The Redskins look like the Redskins of the last few years, except not nearly as good on offense. That's really what they look like right now.

Things change in the NFL. It's a week-to-week league. I have no idea what the early line is on the Reds Panthers game. I'm going to look right now to see if I can find it. I would guess that the Redskins would be about a couple point underdog against the Panthers who are three and one. No, guess what? The Redskins are favored Sunday at home against the Panthers. There are two-point favorite against Carolina at home. So they'll likely be in the smell test. They'll likely be a smell test pick.

We'll see how that, you know, sort of evolves over the week with public action and sharp action. But I would have guessed pick them to maybe a two-point dog against Carolina, and they're a two-point favorite at home after that embarrassment of last night. That's the NFL for you. The NFL knows it. You know, it's a bounceback league. It's a week-to-week league. They're capable.

And if they got a win at home against Carolina, we'd forget about it. this one pretty quickly because you would have Dallas coming in the following week for a game to get to four and two. All right. Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to J.P. Finley. Got this out early today because they had a Monday night game. We're going to keep trying to get them out earlier and earlier. But today I really wanted to get this one out early after a Monday night game. Back tomorrow. Tommy will be with me tomorrow. He just didn't want to get up this early today. That was basically it. I said, you want to come in tomorrow early? And he said, nah, I'll just come in on Wednesday.

So Tommy, you'll be here tomorrow. Have a great day, everybody.