The Kevin Sheehan Show - Shootout Sunday Night?

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Kevin and Thom today with plenty on Sunday night's game in Tampa including Thom's high-scoring prediction. Kevin shared his belief that Kliff Kingsbury intends on featuring two players in particular on Sunday night. The boys talked Notre Dame/Penn State, Kingsbury's next move when the season ends, and Thom's column on Bob Dylan's love for boxing.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Window Nation. Give them a call if you're thinking about new Windows 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com.

Tommy just made me aware of his excitement for the first national semi-final game tonight in the Orange Bowl between Notre Dame and Penn State. You just hit me with it, and I was like, I didn't even know that you knew the game was going on. You're into this. Why? Well, again, I grew up in Pennsylvania, and in eastern Pennsylvania, particularly, Penn State is, you know, is revered. I mean, you know, I grew up rooting for Penn State. I grew up, you know, I remember when they got robbed of the national championship, I think it was in 68 or 69. But they were undefeated, and Texas, I think, was undefeated. And so, yeah, I remember when Lydell Mitchell played running back, and Franco Harris played running back.

So I go back to Penn State. And where I'm from, Penn State is the place where every football player wanted to go play. You know, I know a lot of people who had nothing to do with Penn State who go to games, you know, from like East Strasbourg, they'll drive to games. They didn't go to Penn State. They don't have kids who went to Penn State, but it's still a huge thing, particularly in central and eastern Pennsylvania. And I know around the Philadelphia and the Scranton area in particular, there's a lot of Penn State fans who are also probably Notre Dame fans. And there's a lot of conflicted angst about the game tonight with a lot of Irish Catholics in that state. Yeah, I mean, they're, I mean, Irish athletes all over the country route for Notre Dame.

That is funny, though, because it just made me think of, you know, the movie Rudy. I know that they, you know, he grew up in Western PA, but remember, you know, he went to Notre Dame, but the father and all of the brothers, they're like huge Notre Dame fans. Yeah. So the national championship in 1968, you're saying, 1969, that was the Texas, Arkansas game that Nixon went to that was very famous. You're saying that Penn State should have won the national championship that year? I think they were both undefeated.

Okay. Penn State and Texas. You're right. I've got it right in front of me. Good memory. Yes. Yeah. And it was a controversial game.

This was the early days of the Joe Paterno regime, too. Yeah. And it was the beginning of a great run of years of football, Penn State. but that was, I think, I can't remember the quarterback's name. I forget what the quarterback's name. But I know the two running backs were Bido Mitchell and Frank O'Harras. That's a hell of a backfield. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, God, man, college football, where we are today versus Penn State in 1969 going 11 and O, Texas going 11 and O, and Texas going 11 and O, and Texas. Texas being crowned the AP national champion. And by the way, the UPI national champion and every other national championship, they won it in every kind of poll. And as you kind of move forward through, you know, like 1973, listen to this.

Notre Dame went 11 and 0. They won the AP national championship, but Alabama, who finished 11 and 1 won the national championship, but Alabama who finished 11 and 1 won the national championship in the UPI. Michigan and Ohio State both went 10, 0, and 1. So did Oklahoma. Oh, my God. You had 1, 2, 3, 4 undefeated teams, just one undefeated untied team in Notre Dame. And we're now getting into the area that I can kind of remember.

Arizona State in 1975 with Frank Cush coaching them went 12-0. They got no consideration for the national championship. Oklahoma was 11 and 1-1-1 the national championship that year. Pitt and 76 with Tony Dorset, I do remember that team very well. They won it. They were the only undefeated team. I'm just trying to find. I remember that team.

Yeah. I was Johnny Majors with the coach. Matt Kavanaugh. was the quarterback. Exactly. Yeah. We're trying to find other years in which there were multiple undefeated teams or an undefeated team didn't win it.

82, Nebraska ended up winning the national, no, Penn State won the national championship. That's right. Penn State won it in 82. They beat Georgia in the Sugar Bowl, right, to win it? I forget. But SMU went undefeated that year, didn't get any consideration. BYU and 84, I remember that team. I remember that, yeah.

That was the Jim McMahon team, right? Or was it the Steve Young team in 84? I don't know. I don't know if it was. They went 13 and 0. I remember they beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl. It had to be the Steve Young team because Jim McMahon wasn't a rookie on the 85. Of course, of course, yes.

So it had to be the Steve Young team. But wasn't Steve Young already in the NFL at that point? Let me see you. He was in the USFL. Robbie Bosco. Robbie Bosco was the starting quarterback. They went 13. Started in the USFL.

Yeah, exactly. 13 and 0, they went, they beat Michigan in the Holiday Bowl, but they didn't sniff the national championship. That was the year that, who won it? Nebraska wanted it, it looks like. Well, I'm glad we're not going to have that anymore, that we're going to have that anymore that we're going to have a championship that was determined to a tournament of games. I mean, I don't know if I wanted 12 teams in the tournament, but I'm happy for a tournament where teams are going to be playing each other, where an undefeated team has a chance

that's not a blue blood, but may get picked, has a chance to win it on the field. In back-to-back years, 1990, Colorado and Georgia Tech both shared the national championship. Georgia Tech coached by Bobby Ross that year was the UPI national champion. Colorado coached by the great Bill McCartney, who was a great coach, so was Bobby Ross, won the AP. And then in 91, you had a split national champion as well with Miami and Washington both going undefeated and sharing in the national championship. Yeah. Who's the UPI champion this year? Is there a UPI anymore?

There is no more UPI. It's been God for a while. Yeah, I thought so. United Press International disappeared. Those were the two polls. You know, it was the Associated Press and the United Press International poll, and then the UPI poll became affiliated with the coaches poll.

The AP was always the writer's poll. But there still is a coach. Coach's poll. Like I'm looking at, I'm looking at the rank, it's just called the coaches poll. And then there's the AP top 25. Well, Scott was on with me yesterday. And if you missed it, it was great. He talked about Washington, Tampa. We talked about a lot of things, including this golf thing that debuted Tuesday night that he hosted. But we spent about 20 minutes talking about the two semifinal games. And what's really interesting about tonight's game, Tommy, this is the big. game of James Franklin's career? Absolutely. It changes the conversation of him for him or it buries him. Yeah, and buries him doesn't mean that he loses his job, but he just keeps him, you know, in that conversation with all Penn State fans

that he just can't win the big one. He can't. I mean, he hasn't won the big one over the years. Because Penn State, the fans can see a path to a national. championship here. You know? Yeah. So, yeah, this is, this would really accentuate that reputation.

And I don't know anything about the guy, except that he's from East Stroudsburg. I mean, he played football at East Shrewsburg University, and he drinks, every time he comes to town, he drinks at Rudy's like I do, you know, the bar in East Shrews. So I'm obviously pulling for James Franklin. Well, I'm obviously familiar with James Franklin because he was Ralph Freedion's assistant at Maryland during, you know, the Freedian run. And he was the coach in waiting. You know, he was the Debbie Al made him the head coach in waiting. You know, whenever Ralph decided to hang it up, he would get the job.

Or by the way, I think the school had to pay him a million bucks. And they fired Ralph after, by the way, he was named ACC coach of the year. And they hired Randy Edsel instead. And Franklin headed to Vanderbilt. He did very well at Vanderbilt and then got the Penn State job. God, he's been at Penn State since 2014. Let me just tell you, I'm not a big James Franklin fan. I've never been a big James Franklin fan as a head coach.

I'm not a big James Franklin fan from afar. I mean, you know, just a lot of kind of the way he handles himself, press conferences, et cetera. having had my youngest son go to Penn State and having gone up there for several football weekends, it is a scene. I mean, it is incredible what Happy Valley is on a football weekend. And I get the obsession, if not the cult obsession with the program. And I know how a lot of those fans think. Look, we have a lot of listeners that went to Penn State.

It is a massive alum group in D.C. I think it's Maryland 1, Mason, 2, Virginia Tech 3, and I think Penn State's 4 in terms of DMV alums. And I hear from them every once in a while. They don't like Franklin for the most part. He can't win the big game. And he has a chance. He has a chance tonight to finally win a big game. And will it be enough?

It certainly is a big deal. but what would really be a, you know, mic drop moment for him. And I don't want to hear anything from anybody anymore is if they would, and if they ultimately ended up beating Notre Dame tonight and then Ohio State in a national championship game. Because that's the team that he hasn't been able to beat

in the last couple of years. But man, he's 101 and 41. since 2014, 64 and 33 in the Big Ten. Yeah, but you got to win, you got to compete for national championships. Yeah, I mean, because he won national, this is a school, it's one national championships. Penn State has won how many, three over the years? Joe Pa won three. I think so, at least two, if not three.

Yeah, two for sure. I'll look it up here. Yeah. Have your staff look it up. Two national championships in 82 and 86. Yeah. The 86 team was the one that I think beat Miami in the Fiesta Bowl. Yeah, that was when Fini Testa Verdi threw like five interceptions.

Yeah, through an interception. Like that. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm looking forward to tonight. I mean, we've got a stretch of football of tonight, tomorrow night, Saturday, Saturday night, Sunday night, Sunday night, and Monday night. which is a great stretch here. And the two semifinal games should be great.

I mentioned this yesterday, but I'll mention it now. I don't have a smell test pick on the game tonight. I really don't like the game either way. I probably, if I had to bet it, I'd probably bet Notre Dame. I would just go with kind of Marcus Freeman over James Franklin, because I think Freeman's just a better coach. And Franklin tends to stub his toe in these games all the time. but it's one of those where, you know, just because it's on TV, Tommy,

doesn't mean you have to bet it. So I'm not going to bet it tonight. I will have a pick on tomorrow night's game, though. That is 100% for sure. All right. So you'll watch the game tonight. Will you watch the game tomorrow night? No, actually tomorrow night.

I think we're going dancing. Down by me. No. No. No. Yeah. In Desmond, there's a band that we follow down here called Jones and Company. They're okay.

Yeah. There are no King's Soul or anything like that, or Soul crackers, but they, they're okay. All right. You know. I got this. I mean, by the time we get home, you know, I guess I'll probably watch the second half or something like that. Yeah. You know.

All right, the pick from Tommy for Sunday night's game will have in the next segment. I got this from Ross. Ross writes, hey, Kevin, I was wondering if you think the defense is better now than it was in week one. If you remember after that game, Quinn came out and said he wasn't quite expecting such a dudd performance from the defense, and he said that they had a lack of energy. It seems to me they've gotten about 5% better each week until they peaked to come. couple of weeks ago. If you add in Lattimore playing in the secondary, I give this defense a good shot at stopping Tampa. What do you think? Ross, I'll answer your question here in a moment,

but what you did is you brought back the memory of the opener and why Quinn was disappointed with it and why he said they had a lack of energy. It was a brutally hot day in Tampa for the opener on September 8th. And this was a big issue in the opener against Tampa. And remember, you know, I remember being slightly critical of the opener saying, look, it's the opener. Nobody's bailing. Everybody, you know, I feel good. And Jaden was, you know, the takeaway on Jaden was, wow, what an athlete, what a runner, you know, and the defense got shredded that day. But Quinn had promised all offseason, a team that was going to, you know, play with a level of energy and a level, a high motor that you'd be proud of.

Like that was one of the things he guaranteed that, you know, he was bringing in the people that he had brought together, they all were, you know, together on this vision of, you know, playing to the whistle, playing with great energy, relentless, you know, motor, you know, physicality, the whole thing. And it was not apparent in the opener against. the bucks. The reason being the heat. The heat, it was 93 degrees

with oppressive humidity in that opener, Tommy, if you recall. And they ran out of gas. You know, the game was not a blowout the entire game. You know, it was, Washington missed that field goal to start the second half

in a 16 to 7 game. You know, they had a chance with Cade York, who was still kicking last weekend for, I think the Bengals. he had a field goal attempt to make it 16 to 10 midway through the third quarter. And then the game kind of got sideways after that. But it's not going to be in the 90s Sunday night in Florida, not even in Tampa. You're 45 degrees right now, right?

47 degrees. I think it'll be a little bit warmer that it is in Tampa now by the game. Saturday night. Sunday, Sunday night. A 30% chance of showers, but mainly after 1 a.m. The game will be over at that point with temperatures in the mid-50s. That's lovely for the game. But that really was, I had forgotten about Quinn and sort of his disappointment with the overall effort, but a lot of it did have something to do with the heat. Now, in terms of, they've gotten about 5% better each week. I think it's been, for the most part, a season defensively. When you've played anybody with any sort of capability offensively, and the game has been,

you know, a competitive game, it's been disappointing. You know, the best... I mean, I, wait, do you get this 5% better? I don't know. Over the course, over the course of a season. Yeah. I mean, part of what I'm looking at, and we'll get to it later on, I mean, the vulnerability that they're going to have Sunday night is defensively. Yeah, that's, I've been concerned about the defense all year. I'll tell you the moment for me where I got a little bit optimistic. I got a little bit optimistic, actually, in the Pittsburgh game.

That was the game in which I thought they did a decent job stopping Najee Harris. Pittsburgh, remember, had been rolling kind of offensively. And for the first half of that game, first three quarters of that game, they stopped the run. And I'm going back to look to see specifically what they did from a statistical standpoint, because that was the first game, because I was not convinced after the Panthers game, I was not convinced after the Bears game. Remember, what turned the Bears game around was that D'Andre Swift, you know, 56-yard touchdown run. And I remember after the game, Quinn was talking about, you know, well, you know, if not for that big run,

but he still would have been at like four and a half yards per carry in that game if you'd taken that big run out. But the Pittsburgh game, so Najee Harris in that game averaged 2.5 yards per carry on 21 carries. 21 for 53. Jalen Warren had some yards. But that was the first time I'm like, all right, this can start to get a little bit better. Now, they gave up, you know, that touchdown pass, St. Juice did to Mike Williams for the game winner. But I thought that defensively they were better in that game and nearly won it without their best offensive performance. And I thought they were pretty good in the first half against the Eagles four nights later defensively.

Although Philadelphia sort of punched themselves in the face, they missed a couple of field goals. But I thought they were good for basically the first half in that game. But no, there have been, I mean, Spencer Rattler was moving the ball on them just four weeks ago. Kenny Pickett was moving the ball against them. They could not stop the Falcons unless the Falcons were off the field in that Sunday night or a couple of weeks ago. Dallas with Trey Lance moved the football against them. I'm concerned about the matchup from that standpoint, but it doesn't mean that I don't think they can win. I think their best defense is their offense.

Their offense can, and we've seen when they have possessed the ball, when they don't punt, and when they score a lot. and that gives them a chance to win. And they'll have that chance against Tampa's defense, I think, Sunday night. But they're just not a good defensive football team, period. Getting Latimer back will be big. It'll be big. I'm looking forward to that. But anyway, you have anything else to add to that?

Well, I've got stuff I want to talk about with the game. I know. Do you want me to proceed now? No. Well, do you want me to save it? I would like you to save it. So we'll get to it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, if you've lost your hair or you're losing your hair, it doesn't mean you can't find it again.

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Call them at 86690 Nation or head to windonation.com. The sale ends January 31st. Again, zero percent interest and no payments for two years, and you're only paying 50 percent. of the retail price. Tommy, before we get to your thoughts on Sunday nights game and your prediction, I wanted to read this from John. John wrote, Kevin, I've heard you mention several times that the aggregate win total

of the NFC playoff teams must be the highest ever. Considering all of the teams playing the same conference, couldn't that mean, wouldn't that mean they all beat up on the same bad teams? I get that the NFC North is stacked, but aside from the teams that were in the mix, would you consider anybody else to be competitive? Maybe Atlanta, maybe Seattle. I recognize that we didn't beat many teams with good records,

but neither did the rest of the conference, including Tampa Bay. Not as much parity this year as there has been in past years. Either the skins or the Bengals are the best team the Bucks beat this year. Anyone's game? Thank you, John, for that. You can email me by going through the, website, the Kevin Sheeonshow.com website where you can also listen to the podcast. Or you can tweet me or

Tommy. I'm at Kevin Sheen, D.C. Tommy's at Tom Leverro. So thanks for that, John. John is following up on my conversation yesterday and maybe earlier in the week, maybe even last week, where, you know, I discussed the strength of the NFC playoff field. The record of the seven NFC playoff teams is 86 and 33. 723 win percentage. That's really good. To your point, John, you're right. It wasn't like there were a lot of teams knocking on the door.

Seattle, yes, Atlanta in their division, but they finished eight and nine. But here's something that, you know, you can consider because you made me go back and do the homework on this, and I appreciate it. But, you know, you play of your 17 games, right? You play 12 against teams in your conference. and you play five against teams from the other conference. So every NFC team plays five games against AFC teams. The NFC this year was 47 and 33 against the AFC. They beat up on the AFC this year.

When you look at the bottom teams in the NFC, other than the Giants who were 3 and 14, there were three-five-win teams in the Bears, the Panthers, and the Saints. and then you've got six-win team, two eight-win teams, a seven-win team. You know, the AFC has two three-win teams, three-four-win teams, and that's because the NFC beat up on the AFC. So I do think that you're right in that it wasn't like the depth of the NFC overall in terms of teams competing for playoff spots.

You know, Seattle was the one that went 10 and 7 and didn't get in. By the way, I remember saying at one point Washington might get in with a 9 and 8 record. I would have been wrong. They would have gotten in at 10 and 7. Remember, that was a conversation from about a month ago where there was some concern where potentially, you know, Atlanta and Tampa would finish 10 and 7 and Washington could get left out with 10 and 7. We didn't have to worry about that because they won 12 games. But yeah, anyway, I just thought the height of...

of nerdery here, that you'd find that interesting, is that the NFC really kind of owned the AFC this year. Washington against the AFC went three and two. They lost to the Steelers and they lost to the Ravens. They beat the Bengals, they beat the Browns, and they beat the Titans. So, all right. Tommy, you ready for your prediction? But you said, actually, during the break, you said, I got some stuff that I want to say about the game. So go ahead. Your floor, what do you think about Sunday night and we'll get your prediction as well? Okay. You know, I don't feel good about the game. I don't feel good about their chances to win, but I'm going to pick them to win

because I'm not picking against the quarterback. As simple as that. I'm not picking against Jane Daniels here. I don't feel good. I'm very skeptical of their ability to stop the Tampa run, and if that's, That's the case. You know,

Jaden may not have the ball in his hands as many times as he may need to in order to win the game, but I'll not pick it against him. You know, I don't have a lot of confidence that the defense is going to rise to the occasion. But I just think the kid will find a way. The very thing that I said he probably can't keep doing, you know, is winning the game on his own, I think he'll find a way to do that again. I'm not picking against him until he can't do that.

Okay. So? So I'm picking the commanders to win 33 to 30. Yeah, I am confident that he can go out and win the game. And the offense in general, led by him, can go out and win this game. I think they're going to have a big, big night offensive. But you understand the idea that Tampa can run the ball, and they can keep the ball away from them. Oh, look, both teams have the exact same game plan.

Keep the ball away from the other team's offense. And we've been saying this for a while now this year. I mean, it used to be we got to somehow keep the ball away from that quarterback that the other team has. No, that's what teams are saying about Washington this year. And Tampa will be saying that for sure. Because they probably feel very confident offensively in what they can do. And to your point, they can run the football and they can dominate time of possession and they can close out nine and ten play six and seven minute drives with touchdowns.

And that just limits the number of opportunities that Jaden gets. And it's the same with Washington. You know, you don't want your defense out there more than it has to be out there against Baker Mayfield and Mike Evans and Bucky Irving and that offensive line because they're capable of keeping the ball as well. So it's, this is pretty easy. It's the offense that scores the most and possesses the ball most and doesn't make any mistakes when they have the football. Because the expectation is both defenses are going to. give up a lot in this game. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a smart

expectation. I just I just haven't liked what I've seen down the stretch from his teammates. And I don't know if they can magically turn it on. You know, I'm worried about Austin. Does Austin

Echler had two concussions this year? Yeah. Is that true? Yes. Well, I'm worried about that guy's well-being. Yeah. Concussions in one year? We've talked about this already. Not you and me.

I think so. No? Maybe not. Unless I had a concussion and forgot about it. You do forget about things, that's for sure. I mean, I didn't know he had two concussions. Or I'd forgotten about it. That's worrisome.

But anyway, I just, I'm not going to pick against the kid, simply. with that? I think there are two players that are going to play prominent roles on Sunday night for Washington, and I think Echler is one of them. I think Austin Echler, I think they put him out there Sunday just to make sure that physically he was right, and by the way, mentally he was right, that he wasn't hesitant, that he wasn't tentative. They wanted to see that he was ready to go. and he's going to be a major factor on Sunday night because I think they'll be able to throw the football and I think he'll end up having as many if not more snaps at running back than Brian Robinson Jr. Or anybody else.

That's my guess. I could be wrong. Maybe they feel like they can run the ball with Brian Robinson Jr. I don't think you want to pound your head against Vita Vaya and the interior of that defense. I think you want to get out on the edges. I think you want to throw the football. and I think they can do that against Tampa. I think Echler really was put out there Sunday

because they understood what he would mean in a game against Tampa or the Rams, whichever team they ended up facing. And by the way, they've missed him a lot. They really have missed him since he's been out. So I think Echler is going to play a prominent role. And then the other guy that I think is going to play a prominent role is Diami Brown.

I think that we've seen Diami Brown become more. targeted as the season went along. In fact, I'm going to look this up right now because it feels like it's been mostly in the last third of the season. Deami Brown had 30 receptions on the season, 40 total targets, 308 yards, a touchdown. The touchdown was, I think, at the end of the first half of the Cleveland game. He ended up, yeah, most recently, in the last four games, 7-11 14 of his 30 catches. So nearly half of his catches came in the final four games of the season. He was targeted 18 times in the last four games of the season. That's nearly half of his targets. That number was 40. I understand there were players out and they lost Noah Brown, etc.

But I just think that we saw a comfort with Cliff Kingsbury with Jaden in Diami Brown. Diami Brown as a deep threat. Diami Brown is a screen threat. Diami Brown as a guy that threw a pass last week that should have been a touchdown pass. Diami Brown in the jet sweep looks. I think that Echler and Diommy Brown are going to be big focuses for Cliff Kingsbury in a game that I think even they know has a chance to be a real offensive show. out. Yeah, I think it does. And again, you know, what offense, you know, who has the ball last

it could come down to? Definitely. 33 to 30 pretty much indicates that it may come down to the final possession. All right, we got more. Tommy wrote a really good column, and we've got more on the team and the game on Sunday night. We'll get to all of it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. guys, prize picks is the place to go to for Daily Fantasy Sports. I have the Prize Picks app. I'm one of the over 10 million members at Prize Picks where billions of dollars are awarded in winnings. Prize Pix has made Daily Fantasy Sports accessible to everybody. You just pick more or less on at least two players and their projected stats for a shot to win up to a thousand times your cash. Run your game all season long on Prize Picks. America,

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Again, download the app today and use my code, Sheean, S-H-E-H-E-H-A-N, to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prize picks, run your game. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, there might not be any better place. To watch these games this weekend at some point, whether it's the game of your choice or multiple games, at Shelley's backroom at 1331 F Street, Northwest in this district.

Yes, there's sports bars with 30 TVs all over the place. You're sitting on these high wooden stools, you know, with these high. you know, with these high tables, you know, watching the game with a bunch of kids, or you can be at Shelley's where they have eight very high-quality, high-definition TVs, spread around a comfortable room with comfortable seating, great soft chairs and couches, and the best thing is you can light up a victory cigar for your team that you bet on or that you're rooting for while you're running. watching the game. It's the only place you can do it at Shelley's backroom. I always talk about

the specials at Shelley's this week. The specials on the food menu is a Philly Cheeseburger, which has their custom blend of meat with provolone, cheese, caramelized onions, sauteed peppers. There's also a blue cheese chicken sandwich and a Greek salad with chicken. Are you a A Greek salad guy? Yeah, I'll eat a Greek salad, sure. Well, you have a much more varied taste. That's not really going deep, a Greek salad. It is, it is for Tommy Levera.

Well, I know that. I can tell you that. But the Philly Cheeseburger would work just fine for me while smoking Gloria Cubana or an Ashton or something like that. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. Sounds yummy. I love when you read from the menu, but it really hurts when I haven't had lunch yet. Shelley's back room, everybody, everything there is great. I wanted to read this. This comes from Edward. He's a skins fan in Los Angeles, Edward. We're thinking about you and everybody out there.

He writes, Dear Kevin, I'm putting on my tinfoil hat to question why Jaden Daniels was really pulled at halftime. he's, of course, talking about the Dallas game. The official explanation was sore legs, but without any mention of a specific injury, it feels like a cover. It seems more likely Dan Quinn wanted to bench a struggling Jaden, especially since he wasn't in sync with Terry McLorne and bring in Marcus Mariotta for a change of pace.

If Quinn had been honest about wanting to bench Jaden for performance reasons, it might have created controversy or disrupted team chemistry, which would have been an unnecessary distraction. By saying it was sore legs, he avoids those issues while still making the change the team needed. Ultimately, the move worked, but the vague explanation leaves me skeptical, what's your take?

Do you think Quinn was being straight with us? Or was this just a cover for a strategic adjustment? Interestingly, this isn't the first correspondence I've gotten about people wondering why Jaden was benched. Even Scott asked me, not on the show yesterday, but I think he asked me during the game, he texted me, why did they pull Jaden? They need to win this game to be the sixth seed.

And I said, well, he was hurt. He was in the tent. It's a tent. You don't think they took them into the tent just as some kind of subterfuge. Yeah, I think people miss that. I think they missed that. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, come on. I mean, we did not see him struggle enough that the coach would all of a sudden decide, oh, I got to get him out of there. You know, not this guy. Not the guy who threw the Hail Mary pass. No, absolutely not. Yeah.

Just, I mean, you're not the only one that has felt this way in the moment, I guess, because you didn't play well in the first half. No. Nobody played well in the first half. And it looked, like I mentioned on the Sunday night podcast, it looked just like the first Dallas game, where they were completely befuddled in the first half. And then, you know, they kind of got going in the second half. But no, look, once Christina Pink came on the air and said Jaden was in the tent with, I think she said thigh or hip or knee, or it was two of the three, I was sitting there going, get him out. Get him out.

If there's any threat of him furthering an injury or even if it's just, you know, soreness. And by the way, I don't think he called it sore legs afterwards. I think Quinn specifically said that there was mild soreness in his knee, I thought is what he said, but was not concerned about it. He wasn't concerned about it after the game, wasn't concerned about it on Monday. obviously Jaden was a full go yesterday. And I think that's fueled some of the conspiracy theory talk here. Really, well, why didn't he play then? No, he went into the tent.

He went into the tent. And the other thing Quinn said, and I think this is really important as it relates to Sunday night, he realized that this was going to be a game in which they basically were going to have to strap it to Jaden's back again, and he was going to have to run a lot. for them to be successful on offense. And because he had gotten banged up,

even if it was slightly banged up, he didn't want to risk it. And I think that's in the moment the right decision. And look, Marcus Marietta ended up being the leading rusher. Now, 33 of his 56 yards came on that one keeper, but still he was their leading rusher. They couldn't run with running backs against Dallas. So it worked out.

Marioita came in and did what he did. against Carolina, and as it turns out, they didn't need it anyway because Green Bay lost to Chicago. But it's a much better taste to have a win going into the playoffs and a loss. Yes. That would have been... Especially two losses to the Cowboys in the same season. Can you imagine, though, if Edward was right in that they had kind of gotten a little bit

squeamish about Jaden's performance? and they wanted Marcus in there to boost their chances of winning. Look, I read, you know, I said Edward wasn't the first person to think this, specific to was he injured or not injured or what was the reason. I had somebody, and I think I read this on Monday morning, tweet me and say, I've seen enough, I think they got to go to Marioota for the playoffs. I saw that. That has to be a joke.

Yeah, I think it was. Yeah, I think they sent it to both of us. Yeah, but look, I never would think this coaching staff, they have shown no indication of having, you know, weak, weak legs, you know, weak knees, you know, getting panicking. The one thing this team has not done is panic. Yeah. Now, a lot of that comes from the quarterback who's calm,

but I think the coach is that, and the coaching staff is, that way as well. I agree with that. Just the thought, I mean, this is maybe some of, you know, the PTSD, you know, seeping into everybody's brains. It's like, oh, my God. Which is understandable. Yeah, it's like, actually, it's perfectly understandable. Oh, my God, that was such a bad half and even Quinn sawed and he's benching him. I mean,

this whole year was just not, it wasn't real, he's really not that good. But you got to, I can't blame people who are still kind of, you know, wondering if, you know, if midnight's going to strike in an ugly way. We'll see. All right. Tell me about your column. Well, I, like what I talked about, I think on the last podcast, I went to see the Bob Dylan biopic a complete unknown the other night, Monday night. I really liked it.

Yeah. Yeah, I highly recommended to everybody. It was very well done, some terrific acting. And I'm not a big Dylan fan, and I still liked it a lot. But it reminded me of something I had heard for many years was that Bob Dylan is a huge boxing fan. I mean huge. I mean, not like you guys who are listening who think you're boxing fans. Bob Dylan has his own boxing gym

out in San Diego. I don't know if he still has it, but he's had it for many years. It's a place where celebrities would go work out. It's a place where Will Smith trained for the movie Ali. And it's a place where apparently Dylan has gotten in the ring and sparred because I talked to Ray Mancini to form a local... Boom Boom, Boom Mancini. Boom, Boom, Mancini.

who's used to who sparred with Dylan. I mean, imagine the guts it takes to get into the ring with a champion. Yeah. You know?

And Ray, and Ray, and Ray said, how big is Bob Dylan? Isn't Bob Dylan a small guy? Yeah, he's a small guy. He'd be a lightweight.

Yeah. You know, a lightweight, it's, you know, 135 pounds. You know, 140 pounds,

they fight at. Uh, it was in the mid-90s, Ray had been retired for a couple years. You know, he got an invitation to come to the gym, and, you know, they sparked. And at one point, Ray has this great line that Dylan said to him after one round, Dylan said to Ray, said, Ray, could you lay off the head shots, please? I think I still got a couple of songs left up there.

Yeah. What year was that? Because Mancini was a champion in the 80s, right? right? Yes. This might have been 94. Okay. Man, how old was Dylan at that point? Well, you're right. You're right. He was probably... He's born... He's born in 41. He's born in 41. He's born in 41. So he was 53 in 94. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he's a big boxing fan. Yeah. I mean, that's big. I mean, the reason I heard about it,

was, you know, my good friend, the late Great Bert should have told me a story about one night he got a call at home after doing one of his shows on ESPN of boxing list, and it was Bob Dylan to argue with him about a particular list that Bert had put together. But you wouldn't think a guy like Dylan, very soft-spoken, when you can understand him, at least, speaking. would be, I don't know where the boxing passion came from. He wrote two songs about fighters over the course of his career. But it's not like I've ever, I've never seen him in any fights or anything like that. He's a very private, shy guy.

Yeah. So. What did Bert Sugar say? What did Bert Sugar say about the call? And did he sit on the phone and argue with him about the list of, that he had a problem with? I don't remember exactly the details. Look, Bert,

Bert knew a lot of people. Yeah. I wasn't unusual of him to get a call from Bob Robert De Niro or people like that. But the Dylan one came out of left field because, well, because he, you know, he just didn't think of Bob Dylan as a fight fan.

Right. So I don't remember exactly what the argument was about. I'll never forget when you and I were out in Vegas for a fight. I don't remember which fight it was. And we had finished up doing the show. And you said, let's go get a bite to eat. Let's get a beer. And so we went and did that.

And Bert Sugar was meeting you at this place. And I just sat there and listened to Bert Sugar with just so much personality and a phenomenal memory and storyteller. just tell one story after another. And not all of them were boxing. He was a D.C. guy. He was a University of Maryland guy. Bert Sugar was a terp. But I'll never forget that.

It was really fun to just sit there and listen to actually both of you tell stories of covering fights in particular. I miss them. When we'd go drinking, it was like going out with a rock star. We never paid for a drink. Yeah. All right. Read Tommy's column. I read it right before the show, and it's really good. It's one of his better columns. Not that all of them aren't great, but this one was really good. So real quickly, John Kime wrote a story for ESPN.com on Cliff Kingsbury, and he's got some good stuff in there from Cliff and from people about Cliff. It's titled How Cliff Kingsbury Found Renewed Joy with the Washington Commanders.

You know, he got fired in Arizona, and for three months, he basically traveled and reconsidered kind of everything about his professional life, including whether or not football made sense for him anymore. He considered leaving football, but ultimately, he's like, nope, this is, you know, what I was meant to do. And he got a job with Lincoln Riley, his very good friend who's the head coach at USC. And he was there last year, as everybody knows, working with Caleb Williams. Williams and then got this opportunity here in Washington. Well, he's getting paid, which we did know. He's getting paid through 2027. He got extended by the Cardinals in 2022.

And then, you know, basically they fired him a year later. So he is getting paid as a head coach through 2027. So I would imagine, by the way, Tommy, that whatever Washington's paying him, it's just an offset so Arizona pays the difference. but he's getting a head coach salary, and he's already been requested for interviews in Chicago and in New Orleans, according to reports. So, you know, will he or won't he end up taking a head coaching job? Well, there's this quote from a week ago, January 2nd, Thursday, January 2nd, the day that the coordinators meet with the beat reporters. and there's a quote where he was asked, and I'm not sure specifically if it was during the press conference,

I don't think it was, I think it was probably prior to the press conference, where somebody, maybe a PR person, says, are you ready to field all of the head coaching questions that are bound to come your way? By the way, Sam 48 did ask him during that press conference about head coaching, desire, etc. And Kingsbury's response was to, he was seated in a chair against the wall and he smiled and he started to get up and he said, quote, it would take a lot to leave this kid, closed quote. The kid, of course, being Jaden Daniels. Kime writes Kingsbury, who played with Tom Brady in New England, coach Johnny Mansell, Baker Mayfield, Patrick Mahomes in college,

had been high on the former LSU star since watching his. college film. But by June's mini-camp, Kingsbury had told his brother, his brothers quoted in this story a few times, Clint Kingsbury. Kingsbury had told his brother by June's mini-camp that Daniel's playmaking, work ethic, and drive reminded him of Mahomes. So, look, this is a guy that doesn't have to worry about getting paid like a head coach right now. This is also a guy, and it's revealed in this story, that did not have a great ending in Arizona. And the relationship specifically with Kyler Murray really soured. There's a quote earlier in the story where he essentially, let me just see if I can find it. Here it is. About Kyler Murray, Kingsbury said, quote,

he's a guy I basically banked my entire career on what he would be, closed quote. And the relationship between Kingsbury and Kyler Murray fell off. And by the end of 2022, the relationship between Murray and Kingsbury began to fray Kime writes. And the two would go stretches without much interaction at all. Meantime, his relationships with the owner, Bidwell, and Steve Kime, the GM, started to sour as well. And he takes some of the accountability for it, saying, that he was not a good communicator. He had not set the right kind of foundation for the culture and that he's actually learned a lot from Dan Quinn. But I bring up the relationship with Kyler Murray in particular and the fact that he doesn't have to take a job now from a compensation

standpoint to say that he's really enjoying himself right now. He really loves working with Jaden Daniels. And the situation's going to have to be a really good. good one, I think for him to leave. First of all, he may or may not get an offer. I mean, possibly won't get an offer. But there's a quote in here from Dan Quinn who understands what it is to be a coordinator looking for a head coaching job again after being fired as a head coach. And I think he recognizes that Kingsbury can be choosy. And he said that, quote, nothing can replace the joy that you have of where you're at. Jaden's an incredible player, and he's an absolute blast of coach with his confidence,

humility, playmaking ability. This train ain't slowing down. If you feel like you have to force it, then you're probably not making the right choice, closed quote, saying that Kingsbury doesn't have to force square peg into round hole, just to be a head coach anywhere. I'm really starting to believe that he's going to be back next year. I mean, I certainly won't be surprised if he's back. I'd lean that he's coming back.

And I think a big part of it is he's working with a quarterback right now. You know, Ben Johnson, I don't want to compare the two. Ben Johnson wasn't ready to be a head coach. He had never been a head coach. he really wanted to see this thing through in Detroit and apparently just really loved dialing up plays and developing schemes. And, you know, the story about Ben Johnson last year

when, you know, he kind of backed out of the interview with Washington is that this is a guy that kind of goes into his office on Monday and doesn't come out until Wednesday with a game plan, an offensive game plan that he thinks is going to, you know, be successful. Well, a head coach can't basically go into hiding. for two straight days. But I think Kingsbury's got some of that in him. I think Kingsbury's probably got more personality and more relatability. I don't know that for sure. I'm just guessing. But it sounds like he's really happy right now. And he's working with a quarterback that's going to continue to make

him look good, continue to kind of create opportunities for him. And he doesn't have to jump at anything that isn't perfect for him. As Quinn said, Tommy, this train ain't slow and down. But I think I'd lean Kingsbury's back as the offensive coordinator next year. You know, look, for what I can see from Cliff Kingsbury from afar, I've never spoken to him, never met him, he seems like a supremely confident individual, almost cocky sometimes. You know, so I don't think he's going to be a guy who's going to react to a job thinking, well, You know, if I don't take this job, maybe there won't be another opportunity for me down the road. Like a lot of people would.

A lot of people would say, you know, well, you know, I've got people knocking on my door. They might not be knocking on my door in two or three years. I don't see Cliff Kingsbury being that kind of guy to make a big decision like this out of fear that the opportunity won't be there later. So I don't see him taking a job just because the opportunity is there. The bear's job, I think, you know, it's complicated because there have been reports that, you know, that he'd want Lance Newmark to go with him, you know, if Ben Johnson, you mean. No. Oh, is it Ben Johnson?

Yeah. No, Ben Johnson, we're in Detroit because that's where Lance Newmark was. Right, I knew that Lance Newmark was from there. I mean, you've got the general manager in Chicago. You know, I don't think he's going anywhere. I don't know what kind of relationship. I don't think he's leaving. If he does, it would only be for the Bears.

I've heard going back to, you know, when they hired him, because, you know, between Scott and Stanford Steve and a lot of those guys that really know a lot of the guys in college football, I remember just asking them. other people and they're just they said oh my god kingsbury's considered to be one of the true you know superstars gurus and also great guys in the business i think you're right i think he's supremely confident although he clearly lost some confidence after uh things went south in arizona i mean that was a big blow um uh to to uh his confidence but he knows what he does well

He's an offensive guy who can work with quarterbacks who is a good communicator. He says he's become a better communicator. Some of the players had some good quotes in here about him. And apparently he is, I mean, a workaholic. He's in at 4 a.m. every morning. Your son, Colt McCoy, had a quote in here about him. No, it wasn't Colt's quote. It was actually Andrew Wiley's quote who said,

There are a lot of grinders in the NFL, but he's truly a different breed when he comes into the building. He's 100 miles an hour, and he's the first one in the building. He's truly a workaholic, closed quote. I wonder who gets in the building first, him or Jaden? I think he gets in before Jaden, I think. All right. You know, that mesh, you know, it's funny because have you ever had a situation like that? Losing confidence, you mean?

No, where you work someplace And there was a certain level of competition As to who got there first I don't think so Kind of always been, as you know, in early risers So I've always been in pretty early anyway But I don't think I've ever competed with anybody to see who got into work first

When I used to cover the Orioles Well, the one year in 95 when I was a beatwriter covering the Orioles. Buster only was the beat writer covering them for the Baltimore Sun. And Buster is a workaholic. And we used to have a competition to see who could get the spring training the earliest. And it was a lot rougher on me than Buster, because Buster wasn't going to bed at 4 o'clock in the morning like I was at Waterdale.

Yeah, yeah. There are a lot of people in Waterdale, a lot of places in Lauderdale that are big Tom Levero fans. Yes. We've walked into a couple of places in Lauderdale together where you were immediately given the best table in the joint. Tommy's back. All right, 3330. Tommy's picking Washington to beat Tampa to advance to the next round, and that would be their first playoff win in 19 years. I'll have my prediction tomorrow, preview the game, keys to the game.

John Gruden, Jay Gruden will be on this show with me, so we'll have a good Friday football show. All right, Tommy, enjoy it. I'll talk to you on Tuesday. All right, boss. Enjoy it yourself.