The Kevin Sheehan Show - Should The Redskins Pay Trent Williams?

Episode Date: June 5, 2019

Kevin opens with the Trent Williams situation. He recaps the leverage Williams has, poses another possibility as to why he missed mini-camp, and has a suggestion for how the Redskins should handle it. Former NFL and Redskins' QB Brad Johnson was a guest on the show. He shared his thoughts on Dwayne Haskins and his time in Washington early in the Dan Snyder ownership era. Kevin finished the show previewing Game 3 of the NBA Finals and talking Nats with Aaron. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Former NFL quarterback Brad Johnson will be a guest on the show today in about 20, 25 minutes. We'll do some Nats. We'll do some NBA finals, previewing of game. three and tell you what Stephen A. Smith said about Kevin Durant a little bit later on in the show. But we start with the story that broke after we finished the show yesterday. And that story was that Trent Williams, the Redskins starting offensive left tackle, was not at veteran mini camp. And according to Ian Rappaport, he wants a new contract. He wants a new deal.

Trent Williams' last deal was signed in 2015. It's got two years left on it. and currently still is the fourth best contract for tackles in terms of base salary. It's the seventh best contract in the NFL based on cap hit. Trent Williams has missed 15 games over the last four years, has played plenty of games at less than full strength because of injury, and we all know that he's missed games due to suspension, including four critical late-season games during the 2016 season,

as the Redskins were pushing for the playoffs that year. He's been one of the best left tackles in football for much of his career when he's played. Where exactly he's ranked or does rank is really a matter of opinion. It's hard really to find anyone in football that would tell you he's any worse than a top five left tackle, top five tackle overall, probably closer to one than five. Somewhere, you know, in the three, four, two, three, four range is probably where he is for most people. No worse than fifth, though. It's a very subjective thing looking at offensive line play for most of us. I mean, how many sacks he's credited for allowing doesn't do it for me. Players and coaches know when it comes to interior line play more than we do by looking at numbers, more than pro, football focus does more than any other analytic study of line play does. The coaches and players know who's played well and who hasn't in a particular game. I remember Cooley doing film breakdown and for whatever reason he got into this stretch, I don't know, a few years ago, where he was

looking at pro football focus and some of their grades and they didn't even come anywhere near matching some of his grades. But Cooley had an understanding. much more of an understanding of what a Trent Williams or a Brandon Sheriff were supposed to do on a given play or what the quarterback was supposed to do. Interior line play for all of us is the most difficult thing to analyze when it comes to football. We can look at a wide receiver and know that he dropped a wide open pass or didn't come back hard enough for a ball or a running back missed a hole or a quarterback over through a receiver, or a DB got beat deep.

And sometimes that doesn't even tell you everything about it. That's why I think analytic study of football is so difficult. There's so many moving pieces, 22 players on the field at any given time, and nobody really knows what the responsibilities of that free safety on that given play was. And yet the free safety looks like he got beat over the top, and immediately some analytic study will give him you know, a poor grade on the play. You just don't know. But Trent Williams, according to

coaches and players, know what he is. And nobody's going to dispute that he isn't a top five tackle in the NFL and has been for a long period of time. In 2013, by the way, I was just thinking about what I was just talking about studying this stuff. I'll never forget in 2013 when RG3 was taking all those sacks. Seemed like every other dropback. He was getting pressured. and either getting sacked or having to throw the ball away, a lot of fans were like, my God, the offensive line is terrible. But all we heard from the coaches inside the building, and those close to those coaches were that the offensive line was fine.

In fact, the offensive line was pretty good. It was the quarterback that was responsible for all of those sacks. Trent Williams' top five tackle in the game when he's playing and when he's healthy, which, by the way, is a key part of this. when he's healthy and playing. He's a top five tackle in the game. His contract, the one that he signed in 2015, holds up pretty well. It's not apples to oranges in terms of, you know, if he's a top five left tackle, is it a top five deal? It is based on base salary, but it isn't based on cap it. But it's in the ballpark of where he is as a player. This past off season, there were some big deal signed.

Trenton Brown got a $36.25 million guaranteed deal from Oakland. That cap hit is in the neighborhood of $15.5 million. Nate Solder got a big deal from the Giants. Taylor Luan got a big extension and guarantee from Tennessee. These deals, you know, in combo with a few other things, which I'll get to in a moment, have created, I think, for Trent Williams right now. This would be the most obvious answer as to why he didn't show. show up yesterday and then going with the Ian Rappaport report that he wants a new deal,

that all of these things in combination with a few other things that I'll get to have created incredible leverage for him and an opportunity for him. Those deals make his deal drop to seventh overall in terms of cap hit. It's still not bad. Still as mentioned, it's a deal that holds up pretty well. But, you know, it's new deals and it helps his case a little bit. when Nate Solder and Taylor Luan, who's a really good player, and Trent and Brown, who might be a really good player.

I mean, Trent Williams can certainly make the case that he's better than these players. So that helps a little bit, but there's more. And the more is perhaps more leverageable for him. The more is this. The Redskins do not have a replacement for him on the roster. They don't. Ty and Secky signed a deal in Buffalo. You know, Geron Christian isn't blowing the sun.

box off anyone at this point, and no one believes he's ready to start at either tackle position in the NFL quite yet. You know, they could go Morgan Moses at left tackle. Of course, Morgan Moses has been hurt a ton too, and Christian at right tackle. But the bottom line is the Redskins right now don't have someone legitimately ready to step in and replace Trent Williams. I'm not even talking about at the Trent Williams level. I'm talking about at an NFL level. That creates a lot of leverage. There's nothing there. This offensive line right now, roster-wise, is really sketchy, far from solid. Brandon Sheriff coming off a season-ending injury, a rookie that may be starting at left guard this year. Moses isn't always healthy. There's little

to nearly no proven depth anywhere along the offensive line. Trent Williams can look at the roster. You can go to OurLads.com and pull up the roster and see what's behind him. And then there's this, the rookie quarterback, Dwayne Haskins, and the quarterback they traded for, Case Keenham. Keenham took 34 sacks last year in Denver. Haskins is a rookie. You don't think Jay Gruden feels that he needs good offensive line play with these two quarterbacks who are brand new to this system?

Trent Williams right now has them by the balls, and he's trying to take advantage of it. That would be the obvious answer. He knows already, already he knows right now, that 2019 more likely than not, unless they're really running the shit out of the football, that it's going to be a year that results in a ton of sacks, quarterback-related sacks, Keenham or Haskins, they're brand new to the system. and this is his last chance to strike a huge deal, and I think he knows it and feels it, wants to take advantage of it. Also remember this, the scare that he had in the off-season.

He had surgery during the spring to remove a growth from his scalp. For a few weeks there, Williams was dealing with the possibility that, because doctors told him, that they were worried that this growth could be a malignant tumor. It turned out to be benign, thankfully, but it was a scare nonetheless. So he's got all this leverage and he's got a recent life scare and it all adds up, I'm sure, in his mind, to, you know, urgency to get one last deal. And right now the leverage is at a very high level. Now, to me, that's the most likely answer as to why he didn't show up at veteran. and Manny Camp and why he wants a new deal according to Ian Rappaport.

All of that has come together and Trent Williams is saying as he's about to turn 31 years old next month, this is my last shot to get another one last big deal. I'm a seven-time pro bowler. I've made all pro twice. I've been one of the best left tackles in the game for a while now. I may be the best athlete among offensive linemen in the entire NFL. There's also one other potential reason, just one other that I'll just throw out there because there's a little bit of history on this. One other reason, possibly, that Trent Williams didn't show up yesterday.

And I'll get to what I think the team should do and how they should handle that in a moment. Maybe he just didn't want to show up. He hates this off-season stuff. He's missed OTAs, most of them, over the past few years. He wasn't going to work that much for these three days anyway. Maybe he'll just show up at training camp and say, hey, I'm good, let's go. And he just didn't want to go to the OTAs, and he didn't want to go to veteran mini camp, and he'll just show up for training camp.

That's also in play. This is a big story today. And then on July 28th or whatever day training camp starts, the story may be, Trent Williams showed up at training camp. says he's ready to go. And it was all, he was a lot to do about nothing. Could be, he doesn't like this stuff. He does not like this off-season stuff. He likes to work out on his own. He doesn't like to be here. He doesn't think it's, you know, it's truly worth much, even with the two new quarterbacks. I mean, we've had, you know, new quarterback last year. He missed most, most of the OTAs.

It's just not something he likes to do. I think he likes to do. I think he likes a to be home in Houston or in Texas wherever he lives and work out there. Now, how should the team handle it? Well, first of all, what we don't know is what he's asking for. You know, what's he asking for? Is he asking for a five-year contract extension that makes him the highest paid left tackle and tackle in football? And it's going to increase his cap number from, you know, where it is now to 18, 19 million? You can't do that. Or is he just asking for a little bit more? I would assume he's asking for the big deal. You can't give it to him. He's 31 years old when the season starts. He's injury prone. He still has out there, I think, unless it's cleared and reset, but there's always

that chance of suspension due to, you know, marijuana use. I think he's grown past that or at least figured out how to beat the system somehow. And I think if it reset, then you don't have, you know, the testing is more predictable. He's very good. And I don't think that his performance is going to drop that much in the next two or three years. But the problem with his performance is it's often impacted by his health. And that's why you can't give him a long-term deal. You know, if it's a small upgrade, if it's a small extension that gets them, you know, into the top five instead of the top seven in terms of cap numbers, you know, you consider it because you don't have anything else. And he does have you by the nuts right now.

Because no way does Jay Gruden want to enter 2019 with Geron Christian and Morgan Moses as his starting tackles. But I don't think you can give him a new record-setting tackle deal. I just don't think you can, as he's about to turn 31 years old. and he's missed so much time. And even though he's been a warrior and has played injured and he's one of your team leaders, you just, you don't know,

how can you be confident that this guy's going to be there for 16 games healthy? He isn't going to be more likely than not. Can't give him a huge contract extension. And if it turns out that he truly is demanding it or he won't play, then you try to trade, them and if you can't, you let them sit. But you try to trade them. Look, they decided not to go

with the blow-up strategy, which was my strategy on January 1. I wanted the whole thing blown up. I wanted Kerrigan traded. I wanted Trent Williams traded. I wanted anybody essentially over the age of 27 or 28 in terms of players with value dumped. I wanted cap space created. I wanted more draft choices added. And I wanted them to look at beyond 29. new coach, new coaching staff, new general manager, etc. They didn't decide to go that way. Trent Williams still is worth something. There are contenders out there that will give up a second, maybe more than that.

Second, you know, plus maybe a second third, second fourth, maybe a first if they're desperate. Redskins should hold on. They don't need to make that deal now. They need to see if he shows up to training camp. They could still make that deal. camp may have more leverage to make that deal in training camp if somebody, a contender in particular, loses a starting left tackle, could have a ton of leverage at that point. I've heard that, you know, Trent, I haven't heard this from anybody inside, but I've heard people saying that

maybe he just wants to get out of here and he wants to play for a winner. I would dismiss that because I think if that were the case, we would have heard that he's just demanding a trade. He wants to leave. He wants to be traded. That's not what was reported. What was reported is, he wants a new deal. I wouldn't give him a new contract extension unless it's not, you know, a massive contract extension, but I can't imagine that he is going to hold out for a slight bump in pay. I do think that that other alternative theory of why he didn't show up yesterday, I think there's a 10% chance of that that he just didn't want to show up and he threw out to Ian Rappaport, I want a new deal after all these new deals were signed, but he'll show up at training camp.

I think that that's in play, but I think there's a much higher percentage chance that he has recognized the leverage he has in combination with the health scare that he had, and he wants one last big deal. And if it comes here or if it comes with a team he gets traded to, obviously he becomes difficult to trade if he wants a new deal, but there could be teams that would be willing to do it, especially if teams are contenders and they have issues at left tackle, which could materialize. not now, but in August. So there you go. Without him, this offensive line, which I have not subscribed to the theory that some of you have, that it's like a top five offensive line. I don't believe that at all. I think it's been like a top half of the league offensive line, but I have not, many of you have gone way overboard talking about this offensive line being top five. It's not been a top five offensive line. It's not even been a top, you know, two or three offensive line in the division.

but God do they need him. I mean, without him, it's really a mess. You know, you're really now looking to have to make a deal to bring somebody in, hoping for, you know, training camp cuts of veteran tackles. You know, the same position they've sort of been in in mid-season's the last two years of bringing guys in off the street to try to play. Eric Flowers, okay, maybe at least he's played tackle, but more recently he's played guard. Ron Christian, you took in the third round, you got some hope for him. Morgan Moses, he hasn't stayed healthy. I mean, you could end up without Trent Williams with an offensive line that is not very good. That's why he's got a ton of leverage right now. All right. I want to get to Brad Johnson right after I tell you quickly about Windonation's latest deal. It's a summer savings deal. Buy one, get one free. Wind donation's absolute best offer is back until the end of this week. Buy one window, get the second free by two get two free by four get four free there is no limit on this deal there's even more to this deal if you call you'll get a free in-home quote you'll get a pair of tickets to heresy park

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All right, let's bring in Brad Johnson, a Super Bowl winning quarterback in Tampa. and of course in 1999 and 2000, the Redskins starting quarterback in 1999 having a phenomenal season for the Redskins. In Dan Snyder's first year of owning the Redskins, and they won the division that year, and they were very close to advancing to the NFC championship game, probably as close to advancing to the NFC title game as this franchise has been during the Dan Snyder era. A 14-13 lost to Tampa Bay in the second round of the play in the second round of the play. playoffs. And Brad, I was always a huge fan of you, and I never thought they should have brought in Jeff George. I think a lot of Redskins fans feel the same way. And we all know what happened in 2000,

and then watched you go on and succeed and win a Super Bowl in Tampa afterwards. But before we get to all of that, and I want to get your thoughts on the Redskins quarterback situation and Dwayne Haskins and some of the other young quarterbacks, what are you up to these days? I think I read recently, was it your son, your son's a college, is going to be a college basketball player, right? Well, I have two kids. We live in Athens, Georgia. Oldest one, he'll be a senior. And he'll graduate early in January and December. And he'll go to LSU. He's a quarterback. He's about 6'5, 220.

He's a lefty, so I don't know where that came from. But where's the same number, 14, and all that. And then I have another son who's a rising sophomore that will play. He'll be a college wide receiver tied in in a couple of years. Okay. I was wrong about the basketball. well thing. You know what? I remember you were a good basketball player, right? Right, right. I was a player of the year coming out of North Carolina

in high school, and then I end up playing two years at four state, maybe the NCAAs twice, and at some point I realized that I was a 6-5 non-defensive player. They could only get a set shot off, and that I had more potential football than I was with basketball. You were 6-5 and didn't prefer defense, But I remember some of your teammates saying that you could certainly score a little bit back then. So your son that's going to LSU, that's who I read about.

There was a big recruiting battle for him, and he's going to LSU. That's terrific. That must be a lot of fun. Did I read that you were involved in helping to coach him as well? Yeah, I coached him all through his youth football, middle school football, and then I was head coach. But now I'm the QB coach at the school he's at here in Coney County and Athens, Georgia. So I'm not the head coach, not calling plays, but I'm with him every day.

And sometimes I'm dad, sometimes I'm coach, and sometimes I'm good, sometimes that's bad. But we have a great relationship and just kind of been fun watching growing up a little kid. Now, you know, a dream comes true to be able to playing college here pretty soon. That's awesome. And that'll be so much fun to watch him in the SEC and in those big games. You know, I'm a massive college football fan. nothing better than that CBS Saturday, you know, LSU Bama or LSU Georgia game. It just seems like the highest stakes that there are in college football. So that'll be a lot of fun to watch him

get through LSU over the next few years. So before we get to the, you know, one of the reasons I called you was, you know, we just celebrated here recently the 20 years of Dan Snyder's ownership of the Redskins. But I was curious as to what you thought about the Redskins. The Redskins. Skins, a big draft choice in the first round, Dwayne Haskins. Yeah, you know, I mean, honestly, when you look back just a year ago, bringing in Alex Smith was a great, great move. Alex Smith is an unbelievable winner wherever he's been, and it's unfortunate he got hurt. And that was on the right path.

And then things change. It's always, it's always evolving. It's always changing with injuries or contracts. And then they have the pick now with a first-round pick with Dwayne Haskins, It was an unbelievable year last year. I think he's number two or something. The Ohio's been through 50 touchdowns. And I think a great part of his learning process was being under O'Day,

who's down the head coach of Ohio State. But he's a big guy, physical guy, can make all the throws, especially at this level. The big change for a quarterback going from college to pro is understanding protections, and that's the next level of understanding. But Duane seems like a smart kid, wants to work at it, and it's a great choice for the Redskins. And hopefully, you know, he'll be that future quarterback

for them for a long time. Did you watch a lot of college football last year and see some of the other quarterbacks that were taking, Kyler Murray first overall by Arizona, which is an intriguing pick, and then the surprise pick by the Giants picking Daniel Jones at six overall? Did you see some of the other quarterbacks? I'm just curious as to what your thoughts and some of the other guys were. I've seen a little bit of, yeah, you know, going with Kyle Murray, it's an interesting pick. I mean, he's the most dynamic player coming out of college last year. You know, Oklahoma's had two highs and winners last two years with Mayfield and now Kyle Murray.

You know, got him to the Final Four. BCS, the guy's explosive with his legs. He seems like he has a quick twitch as far as making throws. It would have been interesting if Arizona with Kingsbury would not have been the head coach, would he have been the first pick just because of his size and kind of the way he plays. It's not traditional NFL-style football. They may be dynamic out there, maybe electric, and you've seen a couple of shorter guys with,

I mean, obviously with Drew Brees and Russell Wilson, but the game is one in the pocket. At the end of the day, the game is one in the pocket with Super Bowl winners, and that'll be curious to watch him as he evolves, and as Clemsbury as a first-time head coach NFL, how he evolves too. But it's going to be fun watching him.

Actually, with Daniel Jones at Duke, probably not a better teacher, and David Cutcliffe, and obviously he has, Eli and Peyton back in the day. So he's in a situation where I like quarterbacks now, even with Dwayne Haskins, where when you look at the great, great quarterbacks over time, there's only been a few guys, whether Peyton Manning or now Andrew Luck,

the guys that are coming in their first year and started game one that's had success, not only the first year, but success over a long period of time. So Daniel Jones is probably in a great situation with Eli. We can sit, you know, either eight games or a year or two years. you just don't know, but it would be fun watching both those kind of guys grow. You mentioned that the games are determined eventually Super Bowl winners

from the pocket. What are your opinions, though, of the way the game has changed a little bit, how the college game has infiltrated its way into the NFL. We've seen it now for several years. I mean, going back to RG3 here in 2012 and, you know, Cam, you know, when he first got

to Carolina. But, you know, we see a lot of college concepts in the NFL. It's not the predominant way that football's been played, but over the last few years, but it's a meaningful part of it. What do you think of that? And do you think, you know, you've already said that from the pocket is the way these games get determined for Super Bowl winners, but, you know, Russell Wilson has made a lot of plays outside the pocket, made a lot of plays in different ways. What do you think about that style of football in the NFL? Russell Wilson is the enigma of the whole deal. But even Steve Young back in the day, he was a thrower.

He became a thrower first. And I think the games have changed in two different ways where kids are better now. They're just quarterbacks are better. They learn at an earlier age where they're playing video games. They're doing 7-0-7 in middle school, throwing the ball all over the park in high school. Things have changed as far as that goes. So I think kids are throwing more, seeing more coverages, understand the passing game better.

I do think the college game is extremely strong. extremely fun to watch with the RPO's, the run-pass option deals and kids making plays, it's awesome. But when you see guys, when you're paying guys now $30, $32, $35 million, I don't want they're running around all day long. And I think that's why guys in the pocket win. You're playing. You're on the field.

And you're going to get hit regardless, but you're on the field playing, and you're not taking crazy hits down the field. And eventually, you do lose your leg. There's some of it. but unbelievable quarterbacks that have played early in their careers. And then you watch the greats, the Michael Vicks, the Randall Cunningham's, the Cam Newton's, the numbers dwindle every year as far as the scrambling yards, RG3. Same thing.

They kind of go down in time. And so I'm always, I'm always, I mean, obviously I'm biased. I'm a human statue, but I think long careers happen, great careers happen. The guys can play in the pocket and then make plays on the move when they have to. But I just think quarterbacks are better in general. You know, I was thinking, you know, before I called you this morning, that, you know, I'm wondering how much of your path in Tampa crossed with Jay Gruden, the Redskins head coach, how well you know Jay and what your thoughts of Jay are. Having played for us. Yeah. Jay was in a closet for us down there in Tampa. He was always in the back cave trying to find all the special kind of plays for John Gruden, finding guys off different practice. squads. He was always on a different mission list as far as helping John on the side.

And then I always thought Jay was just a total winner, whether all the games he won playing in the arena league or the championships that he had, I knew he's a brilliant mind as far as understanding football. And I thought he understood the game, was a great communicator. I would love to play for him. We were friends down there more. There's more friends than it was a coach player relationship, but I always had a lot of respect for Jay. All right, let's talk about your time in Washington, which was Dan Snyder's first year of ownership. He's owned the team for 20 years, Brad, and the Redskins have won two total playoff games, one of them coming in 1999 shortly after he took control of the team.

When people ask you about your two seasons in Washington, how do you describe them? It was an interesting time. I was fortunate enough to play. I've got to play for North Turner, unbelievable play calls. I thought the first year I was there, we were 10 and 6, won the division. It was one of the most fun years I had in football. It kind of got the spirit of winning back in D.C. And that was just a fun year.

It was kind of a team that kind of overachieved and became 10 and 6. And then the next year, made the Pro Bowl that year and all that. And then the next year, we brought in a lot of free agents and a lot of things happened. And at one point in the time, we were 6 and 2, then the season kind of fell apart. and that year you have seven or four as a starter I think we finished eight and eight in the long season and I took a couple of injuries and missed a few games on that deal

but that was just a team that just didn't hit for whatever reason and I get while you try to make a lot of choices and decisions and you're always, like I said, you're always evolving and trying to bring in players and for some reason we just didn't win some games that we should have won that year and they got away from us and it was over, my time over was over in Washington.

But I was very appreciative of playing my two years there. I wish I could have had a longer stay there, but I was a free agent and chose to go to Tampa at that time. Yeah, I think a lot of people feel the same way. I mean, you know, the 2000 season followed the 99th season, which you mentioned, which didn't have the influx of all of those free agents, Dion, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George, you know, et cetera, which created, you know, an incredible expectation level. And really was, as we know, as football fans, over a long period of time now is not the way to build a winner. It just rarely happens that you can bring in high-priced talent,

especially aging guys pass their prime, pay them a lot of money and see it work. But that 99th season, Brad, was really, well, I mean, in terms of yardage, I think it was your most prolific season. It may have been close to your most prolific season in terms of touchdown passes. And you guys were, I think you lacked something defensively, but offensively, you had so much firepower on that team. You scored, I think you scored 50 or close to 50, two or three times that season with Norv.

It started with that devastating loss, you know, the 35-14 game against the Cowboys where Troy Eichmann brought him back and you lost in overtime. But that was a good football team, and it just seemed like it was the perfect fit you and Norv together. I would have loved to have seen that without Jeff George in the mix moving forward for a few years. Well, it has nothing to it, Jeff. Jeff, I mean, this was my first year there. It was fun. We were healthy.

Stephen Davis was healthy. Second year probably wasn't as healthy as most people didn't really know. But we went through some injuries our second year. But the first year, we probably had 430 yards of pass offense of interference calls. So we were an explosive team besides the yards that we did gain. Nor was a great play caller. I understood the running game. And we were able to use that with the play action.

passing game. But things just, listen, we didn't have the success that we wanted to the second year. It didn't happen for us. Probably no one played as well as we wanted to or didn't have the success. So, you know, it's deemed a failure. Either pass or fail, and we failed that year. But I enjoyed playing for Redskins. I enjoyed playing for North Turner.

And it was just a great group of guys we have with Larry Senors and Brian Mitchell and Michael Westbrook and Albert Conno. It was an explosive group, Stephen Alexander tied in. So it was a fun group. Is there a game that stands out to you during those two seasons more than any other? A game or two? I really kind of go back to winning in San Francisco. It was a game where it was the 15th game of season.

We had to win. If we won, we went to the division. There was rumors of Norve being fired at that time. Everything was at stake. It was a Sunday night game, I believe. That was a big night for us winning, clinching the division. And then, you know, then we had just a game to get through the last game in Miami. But then winning that first playoff game against Detroit at home was special for us.

And then just kind of brought back a lot of excitement. And then unfortunately, we went through some injuries and lost in Tampa to go to the championship game. But I think those two games were pretty cool with us beating San Fran and then beating Detroit the playoff game. Yeah, that's San Francisco game, which, as you remember very well, came on a Sunday night to clinch the division. Johnson threw for 471 yards on that night. 32 of 47, two touchdowns. And I think Larry Center has had a massive game that night as well. Westbrook, you know, Albert Connell, if I'm remembering everybody. Skip Hicks, you know, ended up becoming a factor as you got into the postseason. And in that Tampa game, you mentioned injuries, but specifically you weren't

100% in that game against Tampa, right? Yeah, I put my growing as it went on. during the game. And I had a hard time just, you know, getting through points. I didn't play my best game. And then they had a couple, they had a couple lucky plays. It was a great, great game down there. And we just didn't win it. We had a chance to kick their game-winned a field goal with a minute to go

and then just had some unfortunate things happened with that. But that game, that came, we felt like we should have won, and we didn't get it done. Yeah, work done picking up a fumble and making a first down off of it. some of the lucky plays that happened in that game. And yeah, it was close. I mean, B. Mitch had a kickoff return to start the third quarter that gave you guys a 13-0-0 lead. That was fun. So, yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. No, I was it. That was it.

All right. So in hindsight, you know, you're now, you know, Brad Johnson is, you know, you're in your 50, you're probably approaching 50 years old, somewhere around there at this point. So you're older, you're wiser. You know, when you think about Dan Snyder as an owner, you know, why hasn't it worked in Washington? From your, you played on his first two teams. You've seen the lack of success over a 20-year period now. Why hasn't it worked from your standpoint? Well, I think you could pick a lot of teams and organizations that have gone through a struggle. So I don't think it's just, I don't think it's just one particular place, you know what I mean? But usually those things that, you know, you try to make great choices, great decisions, and they've had some great coaches come through there with Marty Scharton-Hummer

and Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan and now Jay Gruden. I think there's one other in there too. Jim Zorn. Yeah, Jim Zorn, yeah. So there's been some changes. There's been changes that take place. And you just try to find that right chemistry, those right buttons. And you can't really, I don't know if you put your thumb on anything, really.

But, you know, all I know is in sports, it's about people, it's about communication, and they get all those people on the same page. And just, you know, there's been some great, great talent that's come through there, but just for some reason it just hasn't quite worked away. All of us Redskins would like. Yeah, I mean, you mentioned some of the coaches. There have been a lot of them during the Snyder tenure, and we didn't even mention Spurrier. Maybe you did. I don't know. But those were two interesting years to say the list.

to say the least. Do you miss it or do you get that competitive thing through your sons? Yeah, shoot, I played until I was 40 years old. It was awesome. I mean, a 17-year career. I look back and just pinch myself, was able to win a Super Bowl, and I do miss it. I love watching the games. I love keeping up with it. The game has changed in a lot of different ways. But, you know, I have. I've gotten a lot of competitive spirit, just watching my kids grow up, being able to coach them, and that's been almost another lifetime ago. But I watch it now as a fan, and I know that I know how much work is put into it and the daily grind of what it takes to be a professional on what it's on the NFL level.

So I totally respect it and totally thankful for my career. Brad, thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it. It's great to catch up with you. I mean, it's Redskin fans, and I'm a lifelong fan. That 99 season was really, you know, it is. been eight years since the Super Bowl, seven since the team had been in the postseason. And I just remember in the moment feeling they had made, you know, Casserly had made a great

trade to bring you here, that we finally had a legitimate quarterback. And it was, there was going to be a run for a few years. And, you know, you're very humble and you're not going to, you know, and it's clear that you're not going to take shots at anybody in hindsight. You can leave that to all of us, but it got ruined in 2000 with all of those guys coming in and the owner wanting Jeff George to play, which was really unfortunate because you were a hell of a player here in 99 and 2000. And really, in 2000, if we had had a kicker, we may have made the postseason. You know, it would have been that, you know, there were a couple of those games. We went through five kickers that year.

Five kickers that year. So there was a lot, there was a lot of things that take place. You don't try to make excuses for them. But listen, I, I, I, I, grew up as a red skin fan. Right in Carolina. I love my two years there. Yeah. I mean, I still pull for Redskins and I hope that, you know, one day it's going to come back

around. So I think a big thing, honestly, just sitting back from afar, like jump on the Redskins bandwagon. Hey, let's get behind Dwayne Haskins, man. Let's get behind the Redskins. You know, it is what it is. And we all live year to year. I wish we could have had 99 and 2000 back.

But, but, you know, right now it is where it is. And let's, you know, let's get the Redskins back on backtrack. And everybody coming there with, you know, Indian Warhead things. Let's come in there and let's win, you know. You know, jump on board and be a redskin fan, you know. It's interesting because, you know, you grew up in North Carolina when the Redskins were really a team whose fan base extended all the way through Georgia. I mean, going back, the Redskins were the team of the South before the Falcons and the

dolphins and the Saints, you know, all came into the league in the late 60s. You grew up rooting for them, but you played with a ball. bunch of different teams. You obviously won a Super Bowl and had great success with Tampa, but you had success in Minnesota as well. And, you know, when you get to this point in your life, do you still root for a team? I mean, do you root for your childhood team, the Redskins? Or is it that, you know, meaningful in your life anymore? Well, things are changed. Now I'm pulling for my son here in high school. LSUU next year, you know? But no, I pull for players. Obviously, just being there, I said,

man, I used to play in that stadium and he used to play on the bright light on Monday night football and all those kind of things. So I look at it from afar, just, you know, I wish players well when people, when guys like Alex Smith or Colt McCoy, they go through these injuries, man. I hate it for those guys because I've been through that too. So I thought for guys to have great careers and, you know, have great experiences. And I've had every high and heavy low. So I kind of know every feeling that, you know, every kid, every player that goes through.

You had a hell of a career, I think a very underrated career. when you look back at Brad Johnson, he was a winning quarterback, he was a playoff quarterback, he was a Super Bowl winning quarterback, he was throwing for, you know, he's throwing at 60% plus completion percentages before it became, you know, the norm, and now, you know, 70% is approaching, you know, closer to the norm. But you had a very, I think in many ways, a very underrated career. And we enjoyed you, I did when you were here. And I appreciate the time, Brad, as always. Awesome. I appreciate it. Kevin. Hello. Thank you.

All right, good catching up with Brad Johnson. He really is. You know, you look at the career he had. He played until he was 40 years old when he was a backup, you know, in Dallas, and actually started a few games for the Cowboys in his final season at 40 years old in 2008. But he had a long career, you know, averaged, by the way, for a career that started in the early 90s, ended up with a 62% completion percentage.

percentage, you know, was over 60%, as high as 64, 65%, when it wasn't common, you know, necessarily back then, 166 touchdowns, 122 interceptions, threw for nearly 30,000 career yards. And he didn't start, you know, everywhere he went right away. I mean, the only, he only had, and I'm looking at his pro football reference statistics right now, he only had three seasons in his 17 in the NFL where he started all 16 games. One of them was here in 1999, which you could argue, was his best season, at least statistically. He was the most yardage he threw for 4,0005 yards. And then the Super Bowl season in Tampa, he started all 16 games.

And actually, not the Super Bowl season. The Super Bowl season in Tampa, he started 13 games. Interesting. He missed a couple of games due to injury that year. But he had a very good career. Really did have a very good career. An incredible all-around athlete, as mentioned, played college basketball for two years at Florida State. And then also has a son who was a highly recruited.

I had that wrong at the beginning. For whatever reason, it was stuck in my mind that he was a highly recruited basketball player. and I think it was just me remembering how good of a hoops player people said Brad Johnson was, but his son, a top flight quarterback recruit Aaron heading to LSU, get a chance to see his career. But I enjoyed catching up with Brad Johnson, and I think he was a little hesitant to be overly critical of the Snyder regime. And to even really, you know, it sounds very optimistic about Dwayne Haskins, which is great, and he's right. I mean, you know, if you're a Redskin fan, you are hoping that this is the one that works out for them, that this is the big, you know, draft choice quarterback that turns the whole franchise around.

And, you know, we're going to have to wait a few years, I think, on that one to figure that one out. Quick word about launch workplaces. If you are working from home or you're in an office where you want to move or you have to move, check out the new launch workplaces in Bethesda. They've got affordable private office solutions, very flexible in their availability. It's a beautiful new space, fully furnished offices, conference rooms, co-working desks, high-speed internet, a cafe, free parking, and plenty of it, which is always critical, and 24-7 access. You can get more work done today by moving your office to launch workplaces in Bethesda. Now, they also have other locations around town, and you can find out all of those, where all of those are, at launch,

Workplaces.com. If you call today, they'll give you an exclusive free two-day trial. The number is 240-86714. That's 24086714. Also check out launchworkplaces.com. Some NBA, because tonight is game three in a one-one series, first of two in Oakland. Looney's out for the rest of the series. Clay Thompson, I think, is going to play. Durant is not. Clay Thompson. Thompson talking about his injury that it's getting better. And he essentially told people, I think, that he anticipates playing tonight, despite that hamstring injury. Golden State's now down to a four and a half point favorite.

There's more public action on Golden State than on Toronto. I personally would play Toronto tonight plus the four and a half. I buy it to five. But it's not a smell test pick, really. And it's not a strong feeling. But I've played Toronto personally in the first two, so I'm one-on-one. on those two games, but I would play them tonight. I think they've got a chance. I actually think they've got a chance to win any of these games against Golden State right now, with or without Durant. Because by the way, when Durant does come back, it's going to be, you know, at least a half of him getting reacclimated, of him making sure that the calf is holding up and is okay.

I think Toronto's still in this series. I pick Golden State to win the series. I'm sticking with that pick, but I think all of these games are going to be close and all of these games are going to be winnable by either team, but ultimately, you know, now with Golden State having home court advantage and the experience and the championship medal, I expect them to eventually prevail. But I think we're going to see four more really good games, maybe five in this series. Maybe five more good games. That would be great to see that. I'm still curious as to something I talked about after game two on Monday because I,

I saw multiple ex-coaches and players talking about the boxing one that Nick Nurse threw on Golden State at the end of that game, holding them scoreless for like a five-minute-plus period, which was really quite remarkable. It gave Toronto a great chance to get back in that game and win that game. And I was watching this morning, among others, Seth Greenberg, you know, break down the box and one defense. And he admitted, and this is what I said on Monday, it really looked like Steve Kerr, as great as Steve Kerr is. He didn't have any idea that, A, they were in a box in one, or B, had to handle the boxing one. And again, you don't see it in the NBA. You never see it in the NBA. It's something you throw on the best player on a high school team or a college team.

high school more times and not look as a youth coach i've seen a box and won many times i had a kid several years ago on a team that i was coaching who's actually playing right now in division one he's playing in the ivy league of cornell um terrific young player as uh as an eighth grader uh and every other team boxing won us and i remember i had gary williams in studio who was during the ncdbara a tournament. And I was telling them the story. He said, well, what are you doing? And I said, I'm doing a couple of things. But really, I have found that sometimes if you, you know, if you run your man offense, you can, it's fine. But I'm trying other things. You know, I'm putting somebody in the middle of the floor. I'm using my player who's getting box and one as a screener. And he mentioned,

he said, you know, he had a couple of other ideas for me. He's great. There I am. I remember having a conversation with Gary Williams about how to handle a box in one. But in watching this the other night, I just couldn't believe how completely flummoxed Steve Kerr and Golden State were. Again, they don't see it in the NBA. And it's been a long time since Steve Kerr played in college or probably even coached in college or probably even called a college game. I don't know. Was he part of before he got the Golden State coaching job when he was doing TNT work? Did they have the NCAA tournament?

I think they did. I think he was calling NCAA tournament games maybe that first year that they had it. But you don't even see it. a lot in college. The ultimate defense of all time was Jimmy Patsos when he was a coach at Loyola, putting three players on Steph Curry when they played Davidson and held Steph Curry scoreless. Of course, they got beat by like 30-something. But anyway, so I'm listening to Seth Greenberg, talk about how Golden State didn't handle

it well. And they didn't. I think anybody that's ever, you know, coached at any level for any meaningful period of time and has seen this and knows what to do against it was probably a little bit surprised that Steve Kerr seemed to be a little bit confused as to what was going on. It almost cost them the game.

It really did. By the way, I've heard a lot of people refer to Nick Nurse's. You know, they call it junk defenses or Steph Curry used the word janky. The defense was janky. Mark Schwartz on ESPN basically had to go to the urban dictionary to look it up. But essentially it's, you know, gimmickery.

and so I'm listening to people basically criticize the Toronto coach for throwing this defense out there, like it's an eighth grade defense or it's a high school defense. Who cares? It worked. It held them scoreless for five plus minutes. No, Golden State missed some shots, which helped out, but they were trying to force the ball to Steph Curry, who was being guarded by Van Vleet with a four-man zone. behind it. And it was totally ruining their offensive rhythm. One of the reasons I think Nick Nurse went to it and he didn't say it is that they're getting beat with Curry screening, back screening for other players. So the ball would move to the opposite side of the floor and he would come off,

he would be down on the low block and he would come up and back screen for a player who was wide open because they were so intent. Danny Green was initially then Van Vleet of not switching. those screens. So they got a bunch of backdoor easy layups. And so Nick Nurse had seen enough of that. And by the way, Kyle Lowry said they've never practiced the boxing one. That he threw it together in a timeout. I think that makes it even better. That he was like, we're getting beat here. We're getting beat backdoor. We're getting beat all over the place. We've got to stop Curry and all they're trying desperately to use Curry in every sense of, you know, offensively as a score, as a screener. let's put Fred on him. Fred's been the guy that's guarded him better than anybody, Fred Van Vleet,

and we'll play zone behind it. Lowry said they didn't even really know how to play it. You could see, by the way, because I went back, I had the game recorded. If I mentioned this yesterday, I watched the first half of the game at the MGM because I stopped at the MGM to gamble a little bit because I was near there on Sunday, watched the first half of the game there, but I had it set to record. So I went back and watched it a little bit yesterday. And it was clear that as they were trying, to get settled in the zone behind Van Vleet's one-on-one defense of Curry, that they were confused at times. But anyway, I'm listening to all of these coaches, Seth Greenberg in particular and others, in total disbelief that it worked and that Steve Kerr, they didn't

criticize him directly, but if you read between the lines, if you, if you heard what they were implying it was that Golden State offense completely shut down because they didn't know what to do with it. Well, I would imagine that Steve Kerr will have a plan for it tonight. Whether it's using Curry as a screener, whether it's using a pick and roll with the screener dropping right into that middle area, which is wide open, whether it's screening one side of the zone, whether it's, there's multiple things you can do. They didn't do any of them. That work against a box and one. They didn't do any of them. They'll be doing something tonight that works that will probably get Nick Nurse out of it and Toronto out of it if they decide to play

it. They've got to play better defense, period, you know, against Golden State. But I thought it was just an interesting conversation this morning yesterday about that defense. The criticism of the defense is if it was child's play, like, you know, you don't bring this stuff into the NBA. What are you kidding me? you do if it works. And secondly, the recognition from especially the coaches and players who knew what it was and knew how to handle it, that Steve Kerr really didn't either see it or just saw it and didn't know what to do with it. But anyway, I'm expecting a good rest of the series here tonight. I really am. I think Toronto's got a chance to win tonight. I think Toronto's got a chance to win any of these games and I would play the underdog in this series the rest of the way. That's how

I would view this. And Golden State is going to be a favorite in these two games at home, and then they're going to go to Toronto, and they're going to be a slight underdog at Toronto. Now, I did play Toronto as a slight favorite in the first two, but in these games, I think I'd just take the points the rest of the way. Wanted to get to the Nats. Another win for them. It's Eight of ten now. They beat the White Sox last night. After Strasbourg got beat up a little bit early, they fell behind five-nothing,

and then they exploded with a six-run fifth inning. And then, by the way, got pretty good bullpen effort. You know, Rainey pitched really well. He throws hard, Aaron, Tanner Rainey. He throws really hard. And then you had Swero come in and gave up a couple of hits. but had a couple of big strikeouts, and then that left it for Doolittle.

I thought that there was the possibility they were going to be able to save Doolittle last night. They didn't need him necessarily with a four-run lead, but he came in and got those final two outs after Swero got the first out in the ninth. But the Nats have all of a sudden more than anything else, okay, yeah, the bullpen's improved a little bit, but they are generating offense here during this run. big-time offense where they were really struggling to generate any of it. And what we heard, you know, while, you know, during the rough start that, you know, I think the worst it got was 12 games below 500.

I think they were 19 and 31 when they got swept by the Mets. Remember they got swept by the Mets in four straight, you know, that what we had been hearing building up to that is let us get healthy, let us get Trey back, let us get, you know, Soto back, let us get Randon back, let us get healthy. and then you'll see it. And during this stretch of now, you know, eight wins in 10 games, they're scoring runs, scoring a ton of runs. And, you know, obviously they got a phenomenal,

and by the way, this script, you know, sort of flipped. Like Scherzer had a great start in a game in which they didn't generate a lot of offense, you know, versus the opposite. But, you know, this is, they're right back in this thing. I mean, there's no discussing whether or not they can get back into it. are back into it. They're only six and a half out. And I know it's three teams in front of them, but really it's just two in the Braves and the Phillies. The Mets are what a half game or a game in front of them. But this is a

team that's playing at a high level right now. You know, they're absolutely playing at a high level. And, you know, it's what they said. Once guys started to get healthy again, they would start hitting again. You know, don't want to get too carried away with it. You know, you got to look at, they beat Miami, they beat Cincinnati. The two wins at Atlanta were both impressive. You know, they faced Rinaldo Lopez last night, who's one of the worst pitchers in baseball right now. The two wins in Atlanta were pretty impressive. Yeah, no, that's what I'm saying. The two wins in Atlanta were definitely impressive. But Miami's Sincere White Sox, all under 500 teams, obviously Miami's atrocious. So, you know, I don't want to get too carried away with it. I think

this four game set at San Diego's going to be very interesting going forward. And they have a long homestand coming up. If they can get out of that homestand and they are, you know, if this continues for another week or so, then yeah, I think we start really paying attention to it. I'm cautiously optimistic right now. I am too. I mean, it's a long season. You know, the one thing that I think, and I've mentioned this before, we've not had since baseball came back in 2005, a legitimate August September pennant race involving the nationals. You know, they've won four division titles. They've been to the postseason four times, but none of those four were, you know, a whole, you know, hold your breath, you know, every night checking in to not only the Nats game, but scores of other

games, pennant race. They just haven't had that yet, and this town hasn't experienced it. And, you know, people will tell you, real long-term, lifelong baseball fans that have had a team their entire lives will tell you that there's nothing better in the month of August and September than a legitimate, you know, two or three-te-race, you know, for the division. And it would be, you know, at this point, that would be, well, I don't even, that would be the wish at this point, because to jump from this 8 out of 10 to, oh, they're going to win the division going away would be a reach. But right now, I would settle for, you know, huge games against the Braves and Phillies in August and September that decide a division pennant. That would be a lot of fun.

I think that's it. You know, the Trent Williams thing, just going back to that, I, it's, it might, my, my gut reaction to, all of it is if it's for real, meaning this isn't just him saying, I don't feel like showing up for mini camp, I'll be there for training camp, which I think you'd have to assume based on the Rappaport story, and even Jay Gruden's comments, which were that, you know, they're all familiar that it's something that Eric Schaefer and Bruce Allen and company and Doug Williams are handling, that they knew that this was coming, that they knew that Trent's, you know, asked for a new deal. So let's just assume that that's it. I just don't think you can give

him a massive contract extension. What do you think, Aaron? You know, it's tough. It's one of those things where he probably shouldn't give him a massive contract extension at the same time. If he's serious and he's saying, I'm going to sit down, are you going to put Dwayne Haskins behind a line that's looking really shaky right now? Is this a situation where you just almost have to bite the bullet in order to provide some stability for your new rookie quarterback who you've view as the future of the franchise going forward? I think that obviously you need Trent Williams, whether it's Case Keen or Dwayne Haskins. I mean, it really doesn't matter. They've got an offensive line that's

a bit in flux right now. You need your best offensive lineman, whether he's going to be healthy for 16 games, which is probably an... The answer to that is probably no or not. You need him for the 12 games that he's going to be healthy. Desperately, you need him. But you can't put him in you can't with two years left on a deal, you can't succumb to the pressure and the lack of leverage for a guy that's going to turn

31 years old with an injury history. I just think it's bad precedent and again he's got them right in the crosshairs here because they don't have to your point and it's a good one and I made it earlier it's part of his leverage that they've got a rookie

quarterback. They've also again, let's not underestimate the fact that while they have a veteran quarterback in Keenham, he's totally new to the system. You know, and in a system last year where he was new, he took 34 sacks. You know, 15th in the league somewhere like that, not top 10 worst, but took a lot of big sacks. I remember a couple at the end of big games. And you have to, you have to protect him. But I personally at this point, and maybe I am I am influenced by my longer-term view on this team where it was at the end of this year, or end of 2018 in the beginning of this year, where I would prefer a start-over strategy that if you invest a bunch

of money into Trent Williams and now the deal goes until he's 36 years old and he's the highest paid left tackle in the game and his cap hit is $18, $19 million for the first couple of years or towards the middle and the back end of the contract. It's a lot of money for a player who isn't guaranteed to be there every Sunday. He tries. There's no doubting that he tries to be there and usually is there even if he's banged up. But who you also have to say, you know, is going to miss a couple games, is going to be hampered a couple of games and turning 31 years old. Not that at 31, 32, 33, he still can't be one of the top two or three left tackles in the game, you know, four or five left tackles in the game. But towards the end of that contract,

Maybe not. I think it would be a dangerous precedent for them. I think that they should, I do think they should stare him down on this. I don't think Trent Williams wants to, you know, give up an $11 million base salary for 2019. Right. I think that they certainly stare him down into training camp and see how, you know, how steadfast, how much he can, he can really do it. You certainly, before you pay him a record-breaking contract extension, you certainly explore the trade market. You absolutely explore the trade market.

You also, by waiting and not succumbing right now, you may have other options in the tackle market as you get to training camp. I mean, here's the big thing. He's sitting at OTAs right now. Well, it's mini-camp. Or, excuse me, minicamp. If he doesn't show up at the end of July, then I think you start, you know, considering it. Right now, let him, you know, lose a little bit of the OTA money or whatever. It's not that big a deal.

And you certainly don't panic right now based on it. No, you can't. You got it, you got to hold tight here and work through it. And look, maybe somewhere in the middle between a record-breaking contract extension and something that would be truly, you know, let, let, let. less truly without impact. Maybe there's something in the middle

that would work for the team and work for him. Maybe it's also a shorter term extension. I'll say this. One thing working for him, apparently the O-line did not look good yesterday. Well, who do they have? They don't have anybody really there. I don't know. Exactly. Sheriff isn't working.

Right, exactly. Apparently Eric Flowers just looked absolutely pathetic and made everyone look like a pro bowler against him is what the reports were out of camp yesterday. Yeah, I mean, I, this is, part of what he is obviously seeing right now. And that provides a lot of leverage for him. All right.

Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to Brad Johnson for joining us. Tommy's with us tomorrow. I'll have an NBA game three recap. We'll do a lot more. Friday, I think Cooley will be with us. J.P. Finley, possibly as well. So we'll have a big Redskins day following their final day of mini camp,

which is tomorrow. We'll do a big wrap up of that on Friday. Have a great day.