The Kevin Sheehan Show - Skins' Beat Buzzing

Episode Date: July 15, 2020

Kevin is joined by Ben Standig/The Athletic today. They talked about the buzz among local Skins' media members about a potential bombshell story regarding the organization. They also talked about the name, the team, and a very interesting survey Ben did with 30 NFL agents that revealed something about a former FC Washington Team President and a former Washington FC GM. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, Ben Standing from the Athletics going to be my guest on the program today. Before we get started, a quick word about Window Nation. Can you imagine one million windows? That's how many Window Nation is now installed. They just installed their one millionth window. It's an amazing accomplishment, especially this year during a pandemic where they've actually been doing great business. If you've been thinking about doing renovations to your home, including new windows, please give Window Nation a shot.

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and no payments and no down payment and no interest for two full years. It's a great deal. Tell them that Kevin Sheehan sent you, WindowNation.com or 86690 Nation. Please give them a call if you've been thinking about Windows. You can get an estimate and then compare it to another window company if you've been thinking about another one. But give them a call at 86690 Nation or visitwindonation.com if you're interested in Windows. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. Ben Standing from The Athletic is our guest on the show today. We don't have a long show today, but we're going to cover

multiple topics together with Ben. I know everybody enjoys it when Ben is on with us, especially when he spends some significant time with us, which he's going to try to do here today. And we're going to start with this because I think I mentioned it to Tommy yesterday. And then on Monday when I had the day off, Scott Lynn was hosting for me on radio. And I mentioned briefly that there could be some other big news. This was on the day that the name statement came out from the team. But, you know, just a couple of quick mentions that, you know, there could be some news coming out. Comes from me, who I'm going to tell you up front right now, based on whomever it is that will have this blockbuster report on the Redskins,

a bombshell, as many have described it. I know a tiny sliver of it, and it would be irresponsible, really, because it's an investigative piece, which isn't what I do. And I'm not going to mention anything at this point, because I don't even know if I'm right. I think that, you know, by the time many of you listen to this show today or tonight or even tomorrow, the news may be out. But with Ben Standing on with me, he's part of the Redskins beat. All right, he covers the team for the athletic.

He's part of that group of, I don't know, eight, nine, ten people who are consistently on the everyday beat of covering this team. I will start by asking you, have you, can you remember a story that was not reported yet, wasn't written about yet, hadn't been made public yet, that has had this much buzz in the hours, or days leading up to something that we don't even know for sure will come out among the Redskins media community, especially those on the beat. Last night, it was buzzing national and local people referring to this big story, blockbuster story. Jason Lockenforah tweeted out last night. He tweeted out last, I don't know, it was at some point last night or late yesterday afternoon, that this was going to be a sickening report about the Washington football club. What do you make of it, Ben? Last night there was just so much buzz around this. Yeah, thanks for having me on, as always, Kevin.

Man, so let me just paint a slight picture, and that is over the weekend, I was texting, I guess, so much in attempt to, you know, doing what I normally do, and then also, working on the story to get the story out about the Redskins firing Alex Santos and Richard Mann that literally I broke my phone. I was unable to send out text messages for two days, and the level of stress that that was causing me was beyond comprehension. Wait a minute. You could not send out a text. I know you could receive texts. Yeah, I could receive text. The phone works fine. I couldn't send out a text. And I took it into like the store to the repair, and they were like, yeah, this is so weird.

We don't even have something in our manual or had a fix manual for this problem, right? So I had to go and get a new phone yesterday, which is whatever, but then, like, in doing so, like, I'm not great with change always, so the stress of, like, how do I get this phone to work? Where all the, where's everything I like? Where's everything I like? Where all the bells and whistles I like and the noises and all that. So my point is, like, I was, yeah, yeah. But, you know, but I was dealing with all this, my own personal health, and I was

stressing me out. And then I'm going and seeing what's unfolding on Twitter as you're discussing. Now, some of this sort of teasing stuff began on Sunday night, and I will admit that I was part of it technically. But what really pissed me off yesterday, and when I say pissed off, I mean legitimately pissed off, was that, well, to your point, I've never, I've never recalled a situation like this where people are speculating over what a story might be that they don't even know what it is Right. Or anything. And, you know, I'm not pretending I'm Woodward and Bernstein over here and have all this

scoop, but like at least in this one case, it just happened to be, like, I did break the stories that, I mean, you know, that, or I had it, you know, first over the post by a couple of minutes, but whatever, about these guys getting fired. And from that story. Alex Santos and Richard Mann, the two in their scouting department that got fired over the weekend. Right. Right. And it wasn't, I mean, you know, without getting into details, I'm not going to say how it all can to bounce. It wasn't like somebody called it up and say,

hey, this is the official announcement. We're firing these people. You can report it. That's not how this went down. It took hours. I got, I got hence the window this Saturday night, took all day Sunday to get it to the point where it was 100 percent. It was a very, it was 98 percent for hours, but to get it to the 100 percent part, like, you know, it took forever. And my only point is that in the process of that, I was hearing things that about, kind of, to some degree, what went down that this wasn't because they were, you know, that the Ron Rivera administration decided they didn't like how St. Duss and Mann handled for agency, right? I mean, there was more to it than that, but not, but I certainly didn't have

enough, in my opinion, in my Boston opinion, to report beyond that, but knew something was up. And based on the, on the things that I was dealing with, who I was talking to, what, what pushback I was receiving, what non-help I was receiving, I find it almost, incomprehensible that anybody could really know anything that they're talking about here. Now, I'm not saying some people don't have sources that could tell them things, but I feel pretty confident. I mean, if we notice what's today, Wednesday? Has the team announced that these guys were fired yet? No, technically not. Right. So it's three days later. They still haven't announced it. I mean, you know, so like that, that in and of itself says something. They're not

talking. So the idea that all these people are running around and who do what we do and just sort of gossiping. It's one thing that sort of gossip when we're saying, hey, you know, I heard that someone's injury might not be good and you know, sort of the usual transactioning type of stuff, you know, that's not great either, but okay, at least that stuff.

This is real stuff. I don't care what these, what supposedly is going to come out. We're dealing with real lives here, and even if people prove to be bad people, I'm not saying Santos or man, I don't, I'm not saying that, but whatever this report may be, it's real lives here. Things will change.

I mean, again, if you believe that everything that is about to come out, is something crazy, which is what everybody in Twitter is speculating, to me, I just find that irresponsible. I just don't understand how you don't know what you're talking about. You run around saying, get ready, here comes. When you don't, I would, again, I find it hard to believe not saying everybody, like somebody like Lock and Four who covers his team with a national guy. You know, he may know more than me or most,

but it's just other people. I just find it crazy. around in this capacity and suggest you know something, but you're really saying, I don't know anything, but I know something is coming. Look out. I don't know. I don't get that. So a couple of things.

Number one, did you have the Man and Santos story first? Yes, I did. Did the Post credit you for that? Well, they, well, I am one that pays attention to these things, but in this case, it's not an issue that we both publish it within a minute and based on the, the, the, the, and the hurdles that I had to get there. There's no way that the post got it based on me. Right.

So they got it. We just happened to publish it first. I don't know how long they were working on it, but I don't have an issue with that one. So it wasn't a situation where their reporter called you to confirm that you had it first and then printed it and didn't credit you anyway, which happened to me a couple of years ago. But we all know that they are hesitant to give out proper credit. And for those of you out there that are saying, who cares? I get it to a certain degree.

I really do because I think in this day and age, it's not really something that is remembered necessarily by fans. Eventually, when everybody gets it, it's like, okay, they're just consuming the news and they're discussing what it was that the news. They're discussing the news. They're discussing what it is that was broken and then followed up on. But in, you know, a very small universe of people, it is important. You know, it is important to Ben who covers the team and to, you know,

Rianne and Walker who covers the team that if they work on something and they break a new story, this is part of what you do. I mean, it's just part. You know, it's not the whole. It's just part of what you do. But it's important in that universe to get the proper. credit for it. And also, I would just say it's not even so much the proper credit.

My basic, the basic point of all this is this is just ethic. If you had the information independent of somebody else's reporting, I could give leeway to you not giving credit. But if you're just a couple minutes' flight, that could be of slow internet. Of course. I wasn't physically seated from my computer, whatever. But if you literally didn't have the information until somebody else put it out there, then you confirmed it, then you need to give credit.

basic standard. And the frustrating part is when it, when it doesn't go both ways, again, to be clear, in this case, left Carper, I have no issue with. He, there's no, like I said, there's no way he got the story because of me, zero chance. So he did what he did. That's fine. Again, I think this is inside baseball for most people that are listening, but I think it's also important to say that a lot of people in this market who cover sports in this market have had a problem with the biggest newspaper in this market, not always attributing or crediting those that had it first and clearly first in the past. And everybody, I think, pretty much has been on that end at one point or another over the years.

But anyway, with that said, you could also just say, I was excited. I mean, yeah, you mentioned Rian, yes, Rian was certainly part of that, and our editors as well. also was a team effort on the athletic. Well, I think you guys, the athletic in general, the athletic D.C., obviously you and Riannon and the others, David and everybody, I think you guys have done a phenomenal job on news. You know, the athletic in general has done a really good job on news. Again, inside baseball stuff, not every consumer, not every sports fan is, you know, really in touch with this.

But being, you know, in the business, I get a sense, and I'm not following it and I'm not keeping score, but I get a sense when I'm doing updates in the morning as an example, and I'm trying to credit properly who's broken the story. And that, by the way, is a challenge all by itself in many cases. But the athletic has done a phenomenal job over the last year, year and a half, however long the athletics have been around in breaking, you know, sports stories. It really has. Now, let's, again, understanding that a lot of you may, by the time you get to this podcast,

this story may be out there. So, you know, part of this conversation is very dated, but it's still an interesting conversation because of the buzz last night. Jason Lockenfor's exact tweet was the warped and toxic culture of the Washington football team is about to be exposed in a sickening fashion again. Julie Donaldson called the news that was coming out, news that would be very sad. You know, JP earlier in the week had alluded to that the name change wouldn't be the only big news story this week. And I think what happened, this is my guess, you had a story, so you were involved in talking to a lot of people when you broke the Alex Santos Richard Mann story.

which by the way, just as an aside, I don't think these are major losses to the organization in terms of their abilities and contributions. That's just from my perspective over the years and watching their pro-scouting department. But anyway, that's as an aside. But I think everybody in the Redskins media community got some sort of, you know, hey look out something's coming and it's big and my understanding and I just want to confirm this with you you think this is going to be a Washington Post story don't you? I don't even know what to say at this point. I guess I could just say this that like

there have been points where I thought it could be potentially a few, a couple different places and we'll see. It's really hard to, I don't know really what else I could say on that front. Oh, interesting. Well, again, I don't even want to list. I'm not even trying to say that it's not them, because obviously the logical response would be, but it would be, you know, for, you know, if it's not us or it's not, you know,

ESPN locally, you know, that that would be the place. But I heard some mixed stories, but look, I mean, supposedly somebody was telling me, me this thing could come out or I heard somebody's probably probably this could be out by like Sunday or Monday it's now Wednesday and at the time you and I are talking it sort of it could come out at any minute but it's sort of past the point where you think it would be out by now in the in the course of a day this way news is consumed if you want to you know so I don't even know so who knows when it's uh it's coming out um for for for for sure I I guess to the

point of like you know who how everybody you know look each individual person I'm not questioning that they don't have sources you could have told them things. I'm just saying it just seems incredibly weird. Pick whatever outlet you want. The Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, us, whatever. Who's running around saying, by the way, we have a massive story coming out, just get ready. I mean, nobody's doing that. And based on what I was dealing with, in terms of trying to lock, you know, trying to get down the Santos and man story in the first place, I mean, you know, I don't think there's that many people over there at the park talking a ton.

And by the way, just as a quick reminder, they have no team president, no general manager. So the only, you know, I'm not saying people wouldn't potentially know something, but like in terms of who would literally know everything? Who would that be? Like, I mean, who could you even, you know, like, even in the building, at some point it just becomes gossip getting passed down the list. So I'm sure maybe you could imagine somebody told somebody, told somebody, hey, there's something big brewing

and that person's telling people in the media, but like, to what end? And then that's where I'm saying, like, even based on what I had heard, I didn't report things because I didn't think I had enough, and that was with, that was with talking to people. Let's get to something else, but one last one on this.

Am I going off the deep end on this? No, no, I don't think you're going off to deep end. I think that it's, the whole thing is odd, because I think a lot of people, a lot of people who weren't even working on something, started to hear something from people who decided to offer up something's coming. But I don't even, at this point, I'm wondering whether or not the buildup, if this story will even remotely live up to the buildup.

Yeah, no, 100%. And this is sort of to another point about all this. Look, I have no idea, again, I don't know what the details of anything that are about to come out. So it could be, you know, something we're all going, oh my lord, or it could be like, wait, what? But that, you know, that, that, that, right. You know, the overhyping, like, you know, for some new, new Avengers movie, you're like, really? That wasn't all that. That wasn't that great.

But, yeah, so I think that part is definitely thing. And, and, you know, like I said, I guess, it's just, you know, what, what, what, what's, I guess, on some level, what's the point of doing all this? You know, if you're, I guess, what's your point for the media? By the way, just to go back, to one thing. On Sunday night, I mean, to be clear, I did tweet out something that you could sort of, you know, connect to these other topics. But what I tweeted out was, based on what I knew at that point, having just reported the story about the firings, that there was, you know,

more going on. But at the same time, came the news right after our news broke, that they were going to make an announcement about officially dumping the team name of logo the next day. Right. And what I tweeted was, everybody's making a big deal about this. And what I tweeted was, people, this is not news. This is a distraction. We already knew that they were changing the name July 3rd when they said it was going under review. You don't review a very controversial name and come back out and say, yeah, we're good,

especially when you're saying what went when FedEx and the NFL is coming down on you already. We knew the name was changing. And by the way, to further my point, the statement that was released on Monday was absolutely zero passion behind it, three paragraphs, whatever, no quote. They had bigger blowouts this year for like, you know, draft night watch parties, and they did for something historic like changing the name. The point is that this was just to change the topic,

in my opinion, I don't know this or fact, but just like reading the lines. And so I tweeted it from that perspective. Stay focused. There's a lot going on. You got minority owners who wanting to sell or buy out the owner. You've got guys being fired at an odd time to say the least. there's a lot going on here.

Don't get distracted by that. But that's not the same as I wasn't running around saying, hey, there's something overly fallacious happening. That part is just the weird part. Oh, that's the way I read it. I'm kidding. I think it's very interesting, obviously, with no sports. And yet in this town over the last two weeks in particular,

there has been no shortage of topics. I mean, I can tell you that there was a stretch there certainly well after the draft. And before a lot of the social and racial injustice issues, the George Floyd murder, there was a stretch there where I could sense anecdotally that people were really checking out of sports conversations. There was nothing to talk about. And in our world, the NFL draft is a big, big deal. And once we got through that, it was like, okay, well, well, let's wait until we get, you know, some live games or wait until we get to training camp.

But obviously the Redskins name issue took over. And now you've got all these different issues. And it's really a matter of, it's a subjective thing in terms of what's truly important, you know, for people. Because I think many people would say to you that the name issue is much bigger than Alex Santos and Richard Mann. It's much bigger than Kelvin Harmon tearing his ACL. that this is a transcendent moment. It's a potential major turning point in the organization. And by the way, shocking as well, how quickly everything came together with respect to the name.

And now this bombshell of a story, which may or may not be, and by the way, let me just suggest this. This is total, you know, just thinking out loud. you know, if it doesn't come out or if it comes out and it's not nearly the bombshell that was promised by a lot of people that didn't know anything, it's very possible that it was going to be a bombshell, but things changed. You know, and maybe one of the reasons that it's not out yet is that there's a lot of things going on behind the scenes with respect to this story. There's a lot of possibilities. But you know what we'll do? We'll wait for it to come out or not come out and then review the actual story itself. I just thought last night in particular, I was getting text messages. I got two calls from people saying, what's going on? What do you know? Are you following this on Twitter? And then I get on, I'm like, wow. I mean, people we haven't heard from in forever weighing in on they've got something. They can't tell.

us, but they've really got something that's really, really big. And I'm talking about people who haven't been associated with the Redskins beat or the Redskins scene in forever. So I just thought that that was really an interesting moment last night. And, you know, Lock and Forrest's tweet was a very provocative tweet. And others had provocative tweets as well with respect to this. But anyway, there's been big news a lot here recently. Ben standing, of course, from the athletic joining us. By the way, Kevin, just one quick thing that we can move on, I promise. But, like, to your point, absolutely the name change is a much bigger deal than basically,

well, I can't say basically bigger than this story. We don't know what it is because we don't know what it is. But it's much bigger, obviously, than everything else. The name will last for decades and all these other things will get brushed away most likely over the course of history. But which is why my point is, if it was such a big deal, they would have done more than what they did. You don't put out a three-paragraph statement for something that's so monumental that it's going to be noted in the history books on this date they announced officially changing their team unless they're using a potential for a different purpose.

That's all I'm saying. Like there was no, we already knew it was changing. There was no statement, no quotes, nobody involved. Just a couple paragraphs. That was it. That's not how you treat something like that monumental unless it's trying, in my opinion, unless it's trying to serve some other purpose. Okay, well, let's get to the serving the other purpose here in a moment because that's intriguing. And Tommy and I talked about some of this.

Maybe, I don't know, maybe we have the same point of view on this. But just as a matter of getting on record, to me, for me anyway, dispassionate about the name change compared to the way I used to be. You know, there's a little bit of nostalgia. that I have, and I probably will have much more of that when I actually see the team with a new name on a field playing the game. And I will never apologize for being nostalgic about that at all. There's no chance right now in my mind's eye. I'll be open-minded to it, but really this is one of those things I feel very strongly about, that no one is going to accuse me or no one's going to bother me with accusations of nostalgia,

being wrong. So that is an aside. The most important news-related story here in the last couple of weeks is the ownership story. It's the three minority owners, you know, wanting out. It's Tommy's report that Fred Smith led an effort to buy out Snyder. I believe that that effort was not recent. I do not think that Fred Smith is interested in owning the team anymore. That's my personal view based on some conversations that I've had, but I'm not disputing Tommy's story because I think it's possible that a year ago or maybe prior to then, Fred Smith may have been more interested in it. I am very interested in Dan Snyder's position personally and financially as it relates to the team

because intuitively, I can't imagine that Dan Snyder and his wife enjoy owning this team anymore. I just don't know how anybody as reviled and despised as this man is in this town could actually enjoy this anymore. And then number two, and I've heard this a lot, is their net worth is very much tied up into the team. And now may be the right time to sell the team. And I did tell Tommy yesterday, and I mentioned this this morning, that this team is a very interesting case in terms of, if it actually became available for purchase. It is a very affluent market. It is a very desired television market.

It's a very desired market from the point of view or from the standpoint of corporate sponsors with defense contractors and federal government businesses that are pretty much very often more times than not recession proof. There is so much going for it. Not to mention the fact that there is some level of pent-up demand. And at the same time, this is really interesting, and I said this to Tommy yesterday, I'm going to ask you about it right now. This is going to sound mean-spirited. But this franchise is so much more valuable without Dan Snyder in it.

So if it became available for purchase, someone would review all of the things that I, just mentioned market size, TV size, corporate sponsor, affluence of the market, you know, all of those things. But they would also have to look at it as if he's gone, there's a whole new rebirth and resurgence of interest in this team from its fan base, both present and past, that could emerge and make it incredibly valuable once again. I do believe that to be true.

I think this franchise is not worth nearly what it could be with him in it versus with him out of it. But anyway, you can weigh in on that, but I do want to ask you about the statement serving some sort of purpose. Well, I mean, I guess, I mean, you know, in terms of the statement, it's possible we're looking at it slightly differently. But my only point is, look, okay, first off, obviously, I don't think anybody really thinks that the owner was excited to name, to rename the team, obviously, right, based on everything we've ever heard from him. And, you know, that statement, you know, said plenty by what it didn't say, which was, there was no passion behind that statement.

There was no, you know, there was nothing really, you know, about, wow, you know, we've come to terms with, you know, everything we've had long thoughts. And based on that, we're looking forward to. to making a change and doing this and whatever. It was just a very generic kind of a statement for something that is that important. But like I said, there was no really even need to do it, especially if you're not going to have some of a press conference to go with it, we already knew again unless people just don't understand how these things work. That, like, once they put their name under review, that was done.

It was, they were going. I mean, I'm not saying that somebody told me that. That's just pure logic. You can't go backwards at that point. Anyway, but like, to your point, there is a lot going on. And I think instead of talking, you know, because the Washington Post had a series of articles in the days prior about the ownership, right? About things that were going on there. There's obviously this other story we've already talked about that's looming.

And, yeah, I just think that this was in the – I think this is some sort of an attempt to change the subject. I went on – I've probably been on, I don't know, 10 or 12 radio shows in the last two days, national, not just local. I mean, like around the country. And most of them have to do with people wanting to ask about the name. And from a net, if you're outside the market, yeah, I totally get it. You're not paying attention. Oh, they make, they made this news. They're changing the name.

And then they were like, well, what do you think about it? And I was kind of like, eh, like we already knew this. It's not, you know, locally, I don't think most of us were that big of a deal. So I just think that this, this statement and, you know, like I said, it's just to some degree in attempt to sort of change the name. But to your point about the other thing about, you know, the value of the, the franchise with or without Snyder. I think you're spot on.

I mean, you know, right now, I believe on some level, I'm not discounting in any way, shape, or form that people truly believe that they should change the name, that they viewed the name as racist, problematic, what have you. And, you know, I think those of us who grew up here, it's such a weird dynamic because this is the name we all love, and it's hard to vet the fathom that it's now such a hated thing. but okay, I understand it, and I'm not objecting to where we've come. But I really think that on some level, some reason that the level of the outrage over this on some level is because of the ownership, that if there was a more popular owner or if this team had been winning for the last 20 years

and not just being largely a clown show on some level, I hate that, which I came with something more artful there. But obviously one thing after another after another after another, that the perception of this organization is so down, I just think it's such an easy punching bag. I'm not saying we wouldn't have had, we still wouldn't have changed the name if Mark Cuban owns this team, and instead of being, you know, whatever, whatever it is, you know, four playoff appearances in 20 years or whatever, there are more consistent winner that we wouldn't have reached his point,

but I just think the level of outrage is part because the view of this team with Dan Snyder's owner is so negative that it just makes so easy to pile on. Yeah, and at the same time, with respect to the name specifically, I think that there are a lot of people that feel the way I do, which is had this happened after a 10-year run of being competitive and competing for Super Bowls or deep into the playoff seasons, that there would have been a lot more passion about the name going away. I think a lot of people have grown apathetic. I mean, this is the, it's really interesting, Tommy, talked about it yesterday, but before any of this came about, Tommy said to me, and I'm trying to

think the specific reason it came up, but I don't think I can remember. But he basically said, you've said forever, you know, when it comes to branding and marketing, that a major brand change typically carries with it great risk, and that's why I don't think they'll ever change the name. And this may have been right at the beginning of George Floyd or the days after. I don't, the Redskins name thing was not in the, it wasn't out there in terms of being a conversation piece. Remember, the Redskins name in general hasn't been an issue and all of the momentum was with the team over the last couple of years. The 2016 poll, the 2017 Supreme Court decision, the survey, you know, proud, you know, it sort of died down. And the murder of George Floyd obviously changed the country's climate.

for a lot of good reasons and a lot of, you know, curious reasons, as we've discussed over the last couple of weeks. But the, I said to him, this is the moment where if they're ever going to change it, this is two months ago, they don't have what they used to have in terms of loyalty and passionate customer base. That's been whittled away over the last several years. And you won't have nearly the same compassionate response and therefore the risk is at its lowest level. And of course, you know, it was like a week later all of a sudden it's back top of mind. And I said to him, I'm like, this is what we were talking about a couple of weeks ago. If they're ever going to change it with respect to, you know, risk, valuation risk, now would be the time. And so anyway,

I don't, you, so when you said about their statement, um, that it was, you know, not very extensive and elaborate, which it wasn't, as we know. I mean, it was, I mean, first of all, Redskins was all over the release, and it was about we will be retiring the name and logo upon completion of the review. There was no timetable. There was no quote from the owner. There was an emphasis on sponsors over fans and community, at least in the listing of trying to inspire or keeping people updated.

But I thought you were going to say the following, which is what I suggested to Tommy yesterday. And that is, again, back to me, the most interesting topic right now. Could we be at a moment where the owner's considering selling the team for whatever reason? Well, the new owner, the team would be even more marketable if they got to pick the name and the logo. Like that's a possibility. Oh, interesting, sure. I mean, I'm not saying that that's the reason that this, I'm just, I'm speculating that if there's any, anything to the discussion about the team potentially being, you know, sold by the owner.

Well, if you're selling this team, it's more attractive and perhaps even more valuable if the new owner gets to pick the name and the logo and that this could be some sort of delay tactic as well. You know, that's interesting. It's kind of like how with the football team itself, the job would have been more interesting for, more attractive as a commodity for potential coaches if they didn't have Dwayne Haskin versus if the quarterback was wide open and the guy could do whatever they want. Right.

I'm not going to anybody in there. You know, that's super, that's super interesting. You know, I've talked to some people about this, you know, the idea of, you know, could go. What would it take to get to the point that Snyder, like you said, is just so miserable he wants, out, whatever. And, you know, obviously, look, the money, I think, would be there. You know, he would do very well for himself and, you know, go, you know, go live a happy life on his yacht or whatever

he wants to do. But some people also said, well, look, but this is his identity, right? Every time we see him with, like, Matthew McConaughey or somebody else who's connected to the team, are they, is that same, is that same photo op happening if he's not the owner of the team? and you know that that you know it depends on what level of your identity is connected to this versus what you know how much is it that you know just hey i've got a wife i've got kids i've got money i've got you know i've got health whatever else whatever else things are important to you i have all these things let me move on from this headache but if the thing that is the headache is also the thing that you actually that creates your your identity i.e you know meeting these people being somebody that people want to talk to if that had to put it on level of how important that is, that could be the reason to not sell.

So, yeah, it's fascinating. I'm definitely not going to let my own mind run away with the idea that he would sell, changing the name with one thing there was outside pressures on that. Him selling is a whole other story. And, you know, if we get, that would be, you know, on the list of shocking things of 2020, that would almost be to me more shocking than changing the name. Oh boy, yeah, it would be really close. I mean, really close because both of those things seemed at various times in recent years to be impossible.

And the first ones happened. The second one, I have no idea what the percentage chance of it would be. I think there's just a lot in play right now. There's a lot in play for everybody during these last five months. It's had everybody, you know, to a certain extent, re-evaluating priorities. and, you know, health being so much more important. And who knows? Who knows? You know, they've been over in the south of France on his yacht, in part, you know, I've been told because they're both cancer survivors.

And it's safer to be on that yacht rather than, you know, they're vulnerable. They have underlying, you know, vulnerabilities to COVID-19. Sure. But your point is also a very good one. and it's probably the reason more than any other he's enjoyed owning the team over the years because when he's on his boat, you know, and George Clooney's, you know, walking from his boat to Dan's or McConae or whomever, I'm just throwing out hypotheticals and guesses here. You know, they say, yeah, he's one of the 32 people on the planet that owns an NFL team.

You know, that's a big deal. You know, that is his identity, clearly. but part of his identity too that there's no chance they've been able to avoid is the identity of ruining what was so special to a city over two decades and the personal angst and potentially even harassment that's come with that over the years and I'm not saying just for him but for his family members and I've heard many times over the years you know what a first-rate person his wife is and how the kids are great. But still, they are attached to him.

And there's no chance that's been easy for any of them over the last several years. Sure, sir. You know, it's funny. We've now talked for however many minutes we've talked. And there has been not even, we haven't remotely veered close to anything football related. In the dozen or so interviews I've done a lot today, I've had literally one question about the actual football team. And how many days, how many weeks have there been under the Snyder regime in which this has happened?

I mean, obviously, every organization goes through something, right? I mean, whatever it is. There's things that happen off the field or things are not about the business, not about the actual football, but maybe it's the business or some other things. But they're in the headlines, and, you know, you go through that, right? But at the same point, I would have to imagine this organization is one of the league leaders in this, and it just, you know, it just goes to the point of, it just never, it just never ends,

just the amount of things that are constantly happening. And, you know, I mean, I have somebody, as you know, who covers not only the football team, but also the wizard, you know, I've said to many people over the years, both bloggers, fans, whomever, who give me the fire, Bruce, fire Ernie hashtags. And I'm always like, look, I understand what you're saying, I get your point.

What you need to remember is they didn't hire themselves. They don't keep themselves employed. That the people who make these decisions above them, if you think it's curious, if you don't understand why they still have this job, then you have to ask yourself what happens when they don't have it. Then who's there? And I'll be clear, I'm not comparing the two owners per se,

but I'm just saying like, you know, already didn't keep themselves employed. And also to the Bruce Allen part, Bruce Allen part, Bruce Allen wasn't here for the first decade, and that decade was arguably worse, you know, in terms of just, running the football team at least. So, you know, one, you know, it would say it was for any organization, you know, everything

starts at the top, the good and the bad. And in this case, it's over and over again, you know, this organization runs a certain way, and there's only one constant for 20 years. It is interesting, and you're right, how many conversations over the years have had, you know, have had the focus on things that weren't football related. I mean, right now, you know, even, I mean, we would be gearing up for training camp and having some of those, all right, what's going to happen at left tackle? What about tight end? We'd be having some of those right now, but it would also be a normal dead period, you know, in terms of the football calendar.

But this organization, the reason it's in the position right now is 142, 193 and 1. All right, that's the owner. That's the owner's record over 21 years. two playoff wins over 21 years. Two. And one of them came really in a season his first, which he wasn't there long enough to F it up. So really, for all intents and purposes, he gets credit for one playoff win. But, you know, it's what's really interesting to me, and we'll get to some football discussion. I love the people that ignore all of that, 142, 193, and one.

Two playoff wins. And say that the media has been way too much of part of the Redskins' dysfunctional narrative. I've heard that. You've heard that. I don't take it seriously. But I think it's really interesting because it's so clear cut in this case. They continue to lose. They continue to not play games that matter.

and they continue to embarrass themselves off the field year and year out with one shenanigan after another. And I don't know what's coming in this story, if it is coming at all. But I guarantee you part of the response will be, there's that media digging up the dirt on these people or whatever it ends up being. And no, we've all gotten to know. And look, as a part of the radio station that I've been a part of for 17 years and having Red Zebra, Dan Snyder's company, own it for a significant portion of that period of time.

Tommy and I've talked about this, and CJ and I have, we've been really close to some of the people in the organization. And it's not surprising, you know, it's not surprising that they continue to fail. I'm hopeful, like I always am, about a new coach that I like. I do like Rivera and a defensive pass rushing prospect that I'm in love with. So maybe a coach and a couple of players can totally mask the dysfunction behind the scenes. But Ben will tell you, I will tell you, anybody that's been close enough to this situation will tell you, the combination of arrogance and limited intellect is a dangerous combination in a big business, any business for that matter.

and it is summarine them time and time over and over again. Anyway, let's talk some football here. Do you think there's any chance that Antonio Brown or Josh Gordon are on the shopping list after Kelvin Harmon went down? Oh, boy. They definitely need to bring in somebody and presumably a veteran, since you have, you know, the other top three players are just kids. And I thought that before, boy, I don't know. I mean, in a realistic sense, my take has been that Ron Rivera recognizes this is unlikely to be a playoff team this season,

unless, you know, Dwayne Haskins, you know, advances significantly or the Chase Young edition with everything else they have on defense, suddenly turns that group into a real, you know, top 10 unit. they were just making plays all over the place, you know, or, you know, breaks go their way. And with coronavirus, who knows how things could unfold. But, no, I think Rivera has played this to be, this is about setting the tone for what's going to happen going forward, changing the culture, showing guys how we want to do things,

evaluating the young players. I just feel like Antonio Brown does make no sense for this team at all on that front. And with regards to Josh Gordon, because he's just, you know, a massive distraction and completely unreliable based on what we've seen in the last year or so with him, as good as a player as he is, that's the type of risk that a team that's like a, you know, one piece away might make. Or if you have like the Patriots culture, even they couldn't deal with Antonio Brown ultimately.

As far as Josh Gordon goes, you know, look, obviously he's, he has been a great count, but it's been a long time since we've seen him on the field actually doing anything because he's had, you know, constant issues that have kept him off the field. So to me, that just doesn't seem the way to go. I'm not saying they're going to go for this guy, but I keep looking at a guy like a Jerry's right. Nothing flashy. Just sort of maybe a slightly better version of like Brian Quick,

you know, a veteran who's solid. In this case, he's a guy that's played under North Turner. He's played under Ron Rivera. He knows the system. He's a guy who can mentor the kids. Like, to me, I look for that kind of a guy. You obviously need to give Duane Haskins as much as help as possible, but simultaneously you can't have something in there that's potentially going to mess things up.

There's already enough going on. So I would view from those things, I don't know if that's what they would think. If Rivera is making the call, I would probably think he would agree with my take. But, you know, we'll see. Jerry is right for those that don't know is a former Carolina Panther. And I don't even know how old he is at this point. You know, last night when I saw the news about Harmon, I was looking at some of the receivers who were still out there and unsigned.

You know, a veteran like Chris Hogan is still available, I believe. I think Taylor Gabriel is still out there. I could be wrong about that. Yeah. Also, Demarius Thomas, who, you know, he's a little bit, you know, he's obviously with a pro bowl talent. He's had some of his own issues, but I think largely his football issue is just like, you know, his skills have faded, and that's why he's out of the league right now. But he is the type of guy where you could sort of sell it on a little bit of the name and also the experience factor that could help people involved. But, yeah, I mean, there's some guys out there.

I just don't think you need to go get Antonio Brown. You just need to get somebody who's solid who help the kids, will help Haskins, and just kind of move forward. Yeah, the guy that played for the Chargers who's out there, too, and I was looking at the list last. night. Big guy from UVA. God. Hold on for a second. This is going to drive on this. Ralph Sampson. Not Ralph Sampson. Don Trell Inman. He's currently out there. I don't know where he was last year. I think he was with the Chargers. He had a couple of years there with the Chargers where he became a favorite of Philip

River's there, you know, a few years ago. And he's a big dude, and he's an outside guy, like Harmon. At least we thought Harmon would be. It's a shame about Kelvin Harmon, because in a new system with a new coach, with a new outlook, you know, year two for him was going to be so important. And I really liked him. I thought he really played well and came on and had some chemistry with Dwayne. And I thought that that was promising. And I thought there's a chance that he would step up and be a guy that would be on the field for a lot of snaps this year. I feel badly for him. He's also a terrific blocker at that position. But, you know, they drafted Antonio Gandy Golden, but now they don't have Latimer and they don't have Harmon. I'm assuming that

they're not going to have Latimer. I guess I don't know that for sure. But I'm a assuming that they're not going to have Latimer. Would you assume the same? I've been assuming that, but man, you know, in 2020, I assume nothing to get him anymore. I'm assuming, I mean, I was not sure he would make it to training camp. I mean, you know, just based on the reports that were out there about his now legal issues. And, you know, I didn't think that was a particularly wow signing, you know. He's largely underachieved based on where he was. So it felt like it wasn't like you needed to have that guy here. you know, if there's some distraction or whatever.

As for Harmon, yeah, and I really did like Calvin Harmon coming out of college. You know, I get it. He's not the fastest guy, and that's why he dropped to the sixth round, but he's got great hands. They've touted his block, you know, like you said, a bunch last year. I was really excited to see what he could turn into. You know, look, I don't know if he would ever have been a bona fide NFL starter. But, you know, I like role players, too.

And these guys who can do a lot of the dirty work in it, and he could do some of those things. So I thought that, especially on a team this year, that, you know, realistically, if they're going to win, probably have to lean heavily on the run game with Peterson and Geis to help Haskins. And, you know, having a little receiver that can block goes a long way towards that. So unfortunately, that's out the window. And, you know, in the short term, Gandy Golden, look, there's a lot of intrigue with him.

His one-handed catch was getting thrown around on Twitter the day from something he did at a workout. He's really interesting. But, again, no all-season work to this point. he's coming from Liberty. That's a big jump to the NFL. I don't know what expectations are for this year. And then that's why the idea of adding something else is probably going to have to happen. All right.

We'll finish up here with your latest column after I ask you one quick question about Ron Rivera. Do you think he's stretched too thin right now? Oh, yes. Absolutely. Remember back when the coronavirus started, which I mean, March seems like a million years ago. But when he told us that he had a meeting, you know, a Zoom call with the players, went over what's happening, what their approach is going to be, what they need to be working on. And he got done, and he was like, oh, snap, I need to actually talk to the entire building.

I'm not done. I have to talk to everybody because I'm it. There is no president. There is no GM. It's all me right now. That was then. Think about all the things that have happened since. He's had to be the guy to deal with, you know, the topic of race in the,

America. And he was the one that had to come out and make a comment about George Floyd and police brutality. The team didn't. He's the one that has to deal with, I assume to some degree, they're real restructuring the building, the locker room to deal with coronavirus and social distancing. He has to oversee that. Maybe he would to a degree anyway, but that's on top of everything else. And, you know, I remember to your earlier point about people complaining that the media sort of all over the, the team. I remember I wrote a column a couple weeks ago about, not a column, but a story, like, here are the 11 question we need to ask Ron Rivera next time we talk to him.

And one of them was, what's your take on the name? Because at that point, we didn't know that it was going to change, but it was, but it was like, you know, it was clearly in the air at that point. And people were saying, oh, you guys are just going to hen peck this guy to death. He's only good thing we have. I'm like, hey, it's not my fault. Put the owner out there. He's the only person to talk.

That's it. Don't blame me, blame them. So, yeah, he has way too much going on. And, by the way, because they, you know, he just also had to go hire two new people to replace Santos and Mann and the pro personnel department, which he clearly, you know, as he's been doing, went to two people who he knew from Caroline, including his old Bredskins side and Johnny Warren, which is interesting. But, like, you know, that's another thing he then had to deal with.

So, you know, and by the way, like, who knows how, you know, I don't, who knows how training camp is even going to work if they even gets off? This is an abnormal situation. It's not just like they've been off for months, and then we go back to normal. Everything is different, and he has to deal with all this. So, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I can't, I don't know if he thinks this way, but it seems from the outside, he's stretched to thin, and they need to give him some more bodies.

He has been thrown into the fire. I wonder whether or not if he could go back to, you know, late December and the possibility that he could be up for the giant job or, you know, the cowboy job, if he might have second thoughts now about coming to Washington. They're lucky to have them, in my view. A quick word about Roman, and then we'll finish up with Ben on his latest column in the athletic, which deals with a lot of NFL topics after he talked to 30 NFL agents.

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we have a 30-day free trial absolutely go go check that out a lot going on across sports property right now everybody's starting to get back but there's definitely a lot of interesting stuff online right now all right ben did a survey the second time he's done or the athletic second annual survey of agents around the league with several NFL related questions i want to hit on a couple of them and the rest of you can go read it from the athletic through that free opportunity to sign up for 30 days. This, I thought, was a very interesting question that was asked.

From an agent perspective, what was the most interesting or surprising contract signed in free agency? You know, we had this very interesting free agency off season because there were so many quarterbacks on the move, big name quarterbacks. Tell everybody what the number one answer to that question was. Well, I think the most interesting thing with Tom Brady leaving to go to, not just leaving New England, but going to Tampa Bay. Obviously what it signals for New England that this dynasty that's been going on for 20 years is ending.

Sort of, we think, we'll see what Belichick can do, especially now that Cam Newton's there. A lot of these conversations were held before Newton signed, but also just that his arrival in Tampa has completely transformed, it's otherwise been a relatively, you know, middle of the pack, the poor franchise with no real history, even though they won a Super Bowl. Tom Brady has so much use as a player, the marketing. I mean, if we were under normal times,

we have so much more discussion about Tom Brady being in Tampa and what it means, you know, and it's just, that's the one that really that stood out. Yeah, do you not know what the number one vote getter is? Kevin, my brain is scrambled. Tell me what it was. I don't remember anything anymore. So this is why I started with this particular question.

By the way, I would have answered the same thing. And let's keep in mind, too, that Brady going to Tampa Bay was not anywhere near the odds on favor. Oh, James Winston. James Winston was the— Right. The James Winston contract was the most interesting or surprising to a lot of the agents because of what he got. It was a $1.1 million deal to back up Drew Breeze. And I thought that was interesting because I do think he was very disrespected and free agency.

And I still think that there's the possibility of a major second act for James Winston. I think he's extraordinarily talented. And what we learned about him after the fact is how popular he was and how well-respected he was in Tampa by not only players and coaches, but the city in the media in that city. that that isn't necessarily what people from outside that market thought of James Winston. I don't know. I've always had a soft spot for him. I have no idea why I just think he's extraordinarily talented, and I love how fearlessly he plays the position. Of course, that leads to a lot of mistakes. But let's not forget on the Brady thing. Brady to Tampa was not anywhere near the odds on favorite early on. You know, to me,

it's the best fit for Brady. I really do feel like they've got a chance to win a Super Bowl in Tampa with that talent around him. But there were other teams. I mean, you know, we were hearing teams like Houston. We were hearing, God, refresh my memory. We were hearing Houston. We were hearing Chicago. The Chargers. And Tampa ended up being the fit. I think it's a great, obviously talent fit, and I think it's a really good coaching fit for him. Yeah, and again, apologies. I finished writing that story a bit ago. Since then, the local team has kept in my brain movie.

But I will say this, the one, the one of the picks that got received multiple votes that I thought was most interesting, was some agents questioning the Christian McCaffrey extension, because not so much that they were questioning. Obviously, everybody thinks Christian McCaffrey is a great player, and they weren't questioning it from an Asian perspective, like it was a bad deal. They were questioning more like, one, we see the running back market just completely drying up these days

because of, you know, as we all know, because running back just get used and thrown out in pretty short order. And it's really, oftentimes some of these guys, even great players, don't get that massive second deal they think they're going to get. McCaffrey did. But the other part was interesting, and I think this connects to a much larger conversation with sports in general, and that is dealing with this COVID-19 situation,

every league is going to take a financial hit, and nobody quite knows what's going to happen, what the end result is going to be. So to give out a huge contract with a lot of guarantees when you don't have certainty of the economic. And also some of the agents were saying that they have talked to other teams, other owners or people making, you know, who are in charge of the purse-string, that, you know, for some of these owners,

their outside business interests are taking a hit because of what's happening, and therefore they just may not have, you know, the cash to make this, this splodgy deal they wanted to do. One of the comments was that they think that this was, that maybe the Panthers owner, David Tepper, I forget exactly his business, but he's, you know, even for professional sports owners,

he's crazy rich, that basically he has, if I can say this on your podcast, F-U money, and that that's why they were able to, that basically went forward and did that deal that they don't know if other teams would have done that. Yeah, he's a hedge fund guy, Teper, and is worth billions of dollars. And yet, Ron Rivera referred to him as David and his new owner is Mr. Snyder. Just to say, quick point. Now, somebody's going to say, I've heard him call him, Mr. Teper, and so have I.

But I've heard him referred, and I went back and looked at a bunch of press conferences, referred to him as David, and I forget the wife's name. I want to say it's Marla or something like that. But he was much more on a first name basis with his previous owner than the current one. Yeah, you know, somebody also, one of the agents also said to you in this survey that the most surprising, you know, this was a contract question, but the answer was just, it took Washington forever to trade Trent Williams. That was his answer, his or her answer. on the surprise of the off-season.

You had several questions in here about COVID-19 and, you know, the possibility of an upcoming season, which, you know, right now is just who really knows. But I thought one of the interesting questions that was asked was the following. What was the biggest nonsense you were told or the media reported during the off season? This is your survey of 30 agents around the NFL. What was the biggest nonsense that they were told or that the media reported during the offseason? And this is where I think, if I have this right, this is where I think the Brady part was. I think the Brady part was some of the responses about the sort of Brady's future was, I think, the top response.

And one of them I recall was, and this was again before the Cam Newton signing, that somebody was saying that everybody's annoying and carrots did him as the great hope that this is why New England is so confident and stood him that they could basically let Tom Brady go that like, come on, that's ridiculous. The people, reporters who clearly don't know what they're, you know, they don't know enough what's going on inside the building or just speculative into that. And sure enough, obviously, they do go out and sign Cam Newton.

In the moment, it did feel very confusing. I mean, I get Bill Belichick has a particular brand of genius, but he's not really just going to let a year in which, you know, Brady leaves the hatchet to go with a completely untested fourth round pick from a year ago because everybody's going to Gage, you know, Ken Belichick win without Brady had to figure he would do something.

So that was so that was, I believe, the leading the leader there, but yeah, that was an interesting question for me because unlike most of them, I didn't have any clue where they would go. You know, all the other ones you can kind of guess, you know, either or, you know, you can kind of imagine and, you know, asking that, I

really was curious what they would say, and yeah, but that's a lot of wide range, of answers from, you know, involving Kaepernick, involving how the league really thinks about, you know, race, what is their ability going to do anything with it? You mentioned COVID-19, some topics there as well in that response. That was a lot of fun for sure. You also surveyed these 30 agents on the question, do you think the regular season starts on time? The answer possibilities were decent chance, absolutely no way it never happens. Zero said it never happens.

22 said there's a decent chance of the 30 of the league starting on time. And there's this quote from an agent, when it comes to real games and owners losing money, they're not going to let these games get canceled. And they don't care about the gate receipts. The gate receipts don't mean shit to them, closed quote. This is, you know, in Jeremy Fowler's story on ESPN about the NFLPA and the NFL owners and the negotiation over how much money the players may put into escrow and whether or not players can opt out if there's a concern,

a health concern, and still collect salary. One of the quotes in the Fowler story this morning was, they care about playing 16 games on television. That's the goal here, is to have a season and have it televised because that TV money, you know, it's not coming back if they miss out on it in 2020. 100%. One of the responses in the story

on this sort of general topic was one that really stood out to me, and that was basically, look, here's the reality. The NFL, by its nature, is a sport in which players go in and out of the lineup all the time because of injuries.

It's very much a next man up to, you know, a scenario far more than the other sports. So it's already kind of baked into this, and that the perception was that one of the agents was saying that the owners will view this, same thing with COVID-19. Somebody's out, great, bring in the next guy. Ultimately, even if you have to keep these players separated to some odd degree because of social distancing rules or whatever, even if that hurts the product, they don't care.

All they care about is there's people out there in Burgundy and gold jerseys, they've got stars on their head, whatever on their helmets, you know, Minnesota Vikings jerseys, whatever the, the, team is they want those players out on the field in those jerseys so the product looks like what the product looks like. And I think every time like the XFL shows up and people get super excited at least for the first little bit, this is what I always think about. On some weird level with this sport, it's the jury. People just get excited seeing people in the helmet and pads. And on some level, they almost don't care what would happen. And we also went through this,

by the way, back in 1987 with the replacement players. I really think that they only played three games, but if they had just kept going and the NFL players never come back, I really don't know if people would have missed it over time. I was starting to warm up as a fan at that point to the Ed Rupert and of the world.

No, no, no, no, no, I wasn't. I wasn't. I mean, people just get excited about whatever it is, obviously, it's a relative to the level of this is a unique circumstance. The point being that the goal is not, we have to play the best football

possible. The goal is we have to get people out on the field, wearing the uniform, and put that product out there that people are familiar with. Yeah, that's, that's, to me, that's a more valid point. I think that the replacement players, it's a great story after the fact, and it made for a great movie, but in the moment, even though the Redskins players were playing well, Anthony Allen, Ed Rupert, et cetera, I was, it was, it was painful. It was painful. You're a But you're a discerning fan. I'm saying, like, for most people, it's the experience, it's putting on the, you know, the color, your team jersey,

you know, doing something on a Sunday, you know, whatever. Over time, obviously, it's not great, but, you know, Jerry Seinfeld always had this bit. I always remember that basically sports is you're really good rooting for laundry. And that really is, I think, what the crux of this is, is they need to get the laundry out on the field and people to wear it. And if they do that, they'll be good. All right, let's wrap it up with this because this was my favorite part.

And I would urge anybody who has not subscribed to the athletic to do so. Just for Ben and Riannan and all the people to cover the local teams, they do such a good job. And this survey of 30 NFL agents was very revealing in many ways on some levels. And my favorite part of the survey was your front office survey. You had a question in there among general managers or front office leaders, whom do you trust the most? Chris Ballard, the Colts general manager, got the most votes. John Schneider, the Seahawks GM got the second most votes. Remember Schneider was here with Marty back in 2001.

But then the question, among general managers or front office leaders, whom do you trust the least? Belichick got four votes. Elway got three votes. Bill O'Brien got three votes. Howie Roseman got two votes. And then someone who's not even in the league anymore got two votes. And his name was Bruce Allen. So Bruce Allen, not even in the league, finished in the top five or tied for fourth in the votes.

And there was this quote from a general manager. manager. It was Bruce before his 2019 firing. I'm fine with everyone else. You know, Bruce was just the slipperiest of dudes could never trust, closed quote. So that was Bruce Allen weighing in there in that part of the conversation. There was also one of the, I believe one of the John Elway votes said, I would have been Bruce, but he's not in the league, so I'll go with Elway. Right. And then you had a question, among general managers or front office leaders who is the best talent evaluator? Ballard came in first, the agents really like Chris Ballard, Belichick second, and third on this list was another

gentleman who is not actually a front office leader or general manager, but he has a scouting service. Scott McLuhan got three and a half out of the 30 votes tied with Belmont. in this evaluation of this survey of general managers, of agents talking about general managers and front office leaders who are the best talent evaluators. And here are two quotes about McLuhan from agents. Quote one, he's told me stuff way ahead of time that absolutely comes through. I would ask him what he thinks of a prospect when a guy's a sophomore in college and played like three games. And he said, you know, he's going to be a third rounder. And I keep my eye on the guy and turns out, he's a third rounder. I'd pick many scout sprains, but I just kept track of who tells me what,

and he's really accurate. And then another quote, the best talent evaluator I've ever seen, closed quote. I thought that was interesting that McLuhan was tied for second among 30 NFL agents in terms of the best talent evaluator. Yeah, and, you know, this was the only question that I asked both, both times of the GMs, all the other ones were getting to this one. And I believe McClewinn, like Bauer was the first last time, but I believe McClellan was also ranked,

was one of the top three or four vote getters then. And in this case, there were even some who, you know, they were like, boy, you know, Scott McClun really good, but let me think of somebody who's currently active type of thing. So, yeah, he still receives a lot of credit, whatever happened here that, you know, it doesn't seem like it tainted the perception of him to a lot of these guys,

and I think that's part because of things we've discussed already, that you come here, things go bad, they blame the owner and they blame the organization because why, you know, it's, they're the constant, everybody else goes in and out. But yeah, obviously McClellan had a big reputation when he arrived, and, you know, a lot of people still believe in his skills, for sure. He was definitely praised it.

But John Dorsey has another guy who also not currently in the league, but both of them really had a lot of big fans that just were sort of almost incredulous. they're not in the league. Dorsey's one of those guys from over the years that had, you know, kind of a big personality and a way of handling people that a lot of people that were around him always liked him. But I think he was probably competent as well. This is a good read, as all of your reads are. Thanks for spending so much time with us today. People enjoy it. follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Standing and subscribe to the athletic you get 30 days free so you can read everybody covering DC sports.

I don't see the story out yet, Ben, so this podcast, at least for a short period of time, won't be dated. Well, yeah, hurry up, get your editing crew on that and get it up. I appreciate it. I hope I didn't come across too jerky in the beginning. but this whole thing. I know you did. Between COVID-19, between, you know, being stuck indoors between this crazy team, you know, I'm waiting, I'm waiting for the quiet part.

It was like two weeks where nothing happened, and other than that, it never ends. I think the rule of thumb, even prior to the last five months, is you really have to understand that Twitter, social media, is not necessarily prevailing majority thought. and isn't always the brightest and best of conversations. It can be entertaining, though. And last night for a short period of time, actually more than a short period of time, over a couple of hours,

it was if you're in Redskine, I'm sorry, if you're in Washington Football Club land, it got really interesting. But still nothing of a payoff at this point. Thanks. Really appreciate it. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, man.

Good to catch up with Ben as always. does such a good job with the athletic. Go ahead and subscribe to get the first 30 days for free. I have a quick word about Hawthorne. That's hawthorne with an e.co, not dot com. If smelling good is important to you, because Hawthorne smells really good. And getting Hawthorne cologne is so easy. First of all, you go to hawthorne.co, and you take a quiz. It's such an interesting quiz. It's probably something that most of you have never thought about, and that is learning how your personal hygiene dictates the product that you should be buying. You know, what kind of facial skin you have or what your hair situation is or how often you shower or what kind of deodorant

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this one is Kevin, K-E-V-I-N-D-C, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase. That's hawthorne. use my promo code Kevin DC to get 10% off your first purchase. That's hawthorne.co. All right, one last thing before we are done for the day. Dak Prescott and the franchise tag, which it looks like he's going to play on in 2020. It'll be worth $31.4 million if they don't come to a long-term deal by 4 p.m. today, July 15th. And that sets him on the Kirk Cousins path.

which is an incredible path that Cousins was the first to take with the help and the assistance of Bruce Allen, Dan Snyder, and the Redskins organization because they did have a chance to keep him from creating this unique path of franchise tag after franchise tag into unrestricted free agency. But he set the example which Dack Prescott is clearly following. You know, Prescott like Cousins has had some very pretty pretty. years without the wins and the playoff wins to go with it. 31.4 million he's due to make this year if they don't come to a long-term deal. Next year, if they're forced to franchise him, and it will get tougher for them to get a

long-term deal as he inches towards unrestricted free agency, which is always the goal for a player like this. Now, look, he's betting on himself to a certain degree, and he's going to have to perform, and he's going to have to do more than generate big statistics, especially on a team that's pretty good around him. Remember, Kirk was playing on a pretty bad football team as he was accumulating some of those numbers, certainly on defense anyway.

37.68 million right now is what he would make under the tag in 2021. And then in 2022, it could be in excess of $45 million. This is not what the Cowboys wanted. The Cowboys have been aggressive in trying to get a long-term deal done where the Redskins were not with Kirk Cousins. They have looked at some pretty big deals that DAC has turned down. The latest offer was like a five-year deal with a percentage of guaranteed money, but the guaranteed money apparently wasn't enough. They could have increased their guarantee to a higher amount,

or they could have shortened the length of the deal, but they didn't. And so Prescott's going to more likely than not play on the franchise tag this year, $31.4 million. That's amazing. You know, Kirk's franchise tag, if you recall, in that first year in 2016, was $20 million. It was $19 in change. I think it was 19.6 in that year. And then the next year it was 23.9 or 24 million.

million dollars. It's a lot of money, certainly, for, for Dak Prescott, given what he's done. And a lot of people felt the same way about Kirk Cousins as well. But you're going to put him into the top four or five in terms of annual average of quarterbacks this year. Really interesting that cousins of all people, and it's truly, it's surprised. is me too, created this path and this opportunity for players to look at, A, the franchise tag is not being terrible for the player, and B, a large percentage of guaranteed money. In Kirk's case, that first contract he signed with Minnesota, it was all guaranteed. He has really been creative and been a pioneer in contract structure in the NFL.

He and his agent have been. All right, that's it for the day. Back tomorrow with Tommy.