The Kevin Sheehan Show - Skins Crumbs From Cooley

Episode Date: January 4, 2019

Kevin asks Cooley about the latest at Redskins Park. It starts at the 55:18 mark. They also preview the four weekend NFL playoff games. Kevin opens the show with a discussion about Reuben Foster. Mike Shanahan was hired 9 years ago tomorrow; Andy Pollin was in to talk about some of the similarities between then and now. Kevin has just one Smell Test pick but gives out "leans" on all four playoff games. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now, here's Kevin. All right, good Friday to everybody. I'm here. Aaron's here. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation.com and tell them that we told you to call. Cooley's going to be on the show today. Andy will be here as well. We'll do some Friday football quick picks. Really talk with Cooley a lot about the four playoff games this weekend. And there will be be a smell test as well. If you stayed up and watched Warriors Rockets last night and you tweeted me about it, yes, I did see the game and it was incredible. And I am still, many of you suggested that perhaps Golden State has slipped some.

I don't see it that way. I think Golden State's going to win the title. I don't think you beat Golden State when we get to June in a best of seven, late May, June in a Western Conference finals. but James Hardin is putting on an absolute show these last few weeks. That is now his fifth straight, 40-point-plus game, and he was 10 for 23 from behind the arc last night, including the game winner in overtime.

A spectacular game. And Aaron just told me, and I did not know this, the Yukon women lost for the first time since when? I believe 2014. I don't care about that. I'm kidding. It's a big deal. Was it a big deal? I would assume that it would have been a big deal, but I did not.

ESPN did not lead their show this morning with it, did they? It wasn't a lead, but it is on the first block. Yeah, I lost to Baylor, 6857, first time since 2014 in the regular season. Hmm. Okay. There you go. How are the Lady Terps doing? How are the Maryland women doing? I think they actually just recently took their first loss to Rutgers, I believe. but got a big win. Rutgers is usually good, though,

in the basketball. Yes, Rutgers is good. You know what? As long as we are on this topic, and I did not mean to go in the direction of this topic, but I mentioned this girl last year, St. John's high school here locally over on Military Road in Northwest, has, right now I think the number one high school girls basketball team in the country.

They are one of the true powerhouse. houses in terms of their girls basketball program. And if you have not heard of, and I've got to pull up her name again, because I'm forgetting her name, it's like Fudd. The last name is Fudd, I believe. And I forget her first name. She is a sophomore. She is the number one player in America. And she was the number one player in high school basketball, girls high school basketball last year. A Fudd. A Fad. A Z's. A Z. A Z Fudd.

Last year, they played a game prior to St. John's Georgetown Prep at Georgetown Prep, and I was at that game. And Mike McCarthy, who is the longtime head basketball coach at Georgetown Visitation, and Mike's a good friend of mine, and he's a terrific coach. He's built up a powerhouse at Georgetown Visitation. They played St. John's last year, and he told me before the game, he said, you may want to get to prep early before the boys game. because there's a girl who's a ninth grader playing for St. Johns,

who is the best player I've ever seen. And so I didn't catch that whole game, but I caught some of it. She had 10 threes in the game, went for like 36. She's the number one player in America, and people are calling her a prodigy of just outlandish sorts. Her, look up, one of my boys showed this to me last year, so I haven't seen it recently, but look up some of her YouTube videos.

She plays in a way that is, like, She shoots a genuine jump shot. You know, she's got crossover dribbles and fade away jump shots. You know, it's not the typical set shot that you see in a lot of girls basketball. And maybe I'm wrong about that, too. I don't watch a lot of girls basketball. I've seen girls high school basketball, and it's usually like it was last year prior to a boys game, a men's game that I'm going to.

But anyway, she is spectacular. The number one player in America as a soft. and one of the expected superstar female players in years to come in college basketball. I bet you just found a bunch of information on her, right? Oh, I just pulled up the highlight video, so I'm watching it now. Yeah, yeah. This is, I talked about her last year on one of the radio shows, but I would assume that she's having another big year this year.

Oh, yeah, she's still by far the number one, and you type in her name. She's everywhere talking about how amazing she is. And for some of us that grew up in this area, and for some of us, for some of you that are my age and have maybe been outside the area, you know, you remember St. John's as, you know, single sex. It's been co-ed for a long time now. And their girls basketball program has been a powerhouse nationally for many, many years now. Just like the, just like St. John's, the boys team has been a powerhouse. And, you know, a staple in the double. WCAC for years, the girls program and girls basketball. I always talk about boys basketball and the high school basketball area that D.C. is. It's terrific for girls high school basketball as well. She's so good that she became the first girl ever to be invited to Steph Curry's summer camp. Really? Yeah. Wow. That's impressive. All right. Let me get to what I wanted to get to here at the top. Sort of at the top now. Bees just spent five minutes talking about high school basketball,

Girls High School basketball. But again, she's spectacular. I would urge you to go out and watch her play. She's great. The Ruben Foster news broke as we were finishing up the podcast yesterday, and I took three minutes to quickly react on the podcast. But many of you on social media wanted a mea Culpa from me on Ruben Foster. Many of you said that I and others rushed to judgment in presuming his guilt.

This tweet from Leo, Leo was one of several, tweeted me, but I thought this was the most applicable for what I wanted to talk about. He said, so guilty till proven innocent, question mark, question mark, question mark. This foster news is the first good news that the skins have had since

forever, and to crap on a man who has a clean slate with this team is awful. 85% of DC sports media deserves to eat the crow, the few faithful fans are serving up. So Leo and others that feel

that way. Many of you feel the way that Leo does. I saw it on social media yesterday. And I'm going to go through this slowly for all of you. You either don't listen closely, which is fine, or perhaps just hear what you want to hear. There could be other issues there. I'm not going to try to turn this into a condescending rant. That's not my intention. It will be, though, one that defends me to that tweet and others and other people from some of you that thought yesterday was somehow vindication for the team and furthermore proved that those that criticized the team when they signed Foster were wrong to do so. I never presumed guilt over innocence. Never. In fact, I can't think of anyone here locally that I read, watched, or listened to that did. Leo, you'd have to be more specific

about the 85% of those in the sports media that you think made this about guilt over innocence. I couldn't find last night or remember one person locally in the sports media that ever made this about Foster's guilt or innocence. I could be wrong, but I know I didn't presume his guilt, nor did Tommy on this particular podcast. In fact, we both said multiple times that his guilt and or innocence was not the,

issue. I didn't know if he was guilty or innocent then, and I don't really have any idea now, just because the charges were dropped. Tommy may have a different feeling on that because he actually spoke to the Santa Clara California DA on the first arrest. He called out there and spoke to that office, and they told him, despite the woman recanting her claim, they believed that Foster actually did beat her up in the California case. So Tommy may believe he is guilty, but Tommy never made the signing of Foster

to be about his guilt or innocence either. Let me say that again in case you're having a difficult time, understanding it. And Tommy will speak for himself when he's in here on Tuesday. But I remember the conversations we had clearly. Tommy might actually

believe that Foster is guilty of something in the case in California in particular, but he never once, nor did I, make this about Ruben Foster's guilt or innocence. I made it, and he did too, about business and optics. I had and have no idea right now that whether or not Foster is guilty or innocent. Even though I did say at the time that I thought it was totally reasonable to feel that three arrests in the course of just over 12, 13, 14 months was a hell of a lot of smoke. I did feel, I did feel that way? Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't anybody? But for me, and I'm only going to speak for

myself now moving forward, not Tommy or anybody else. And I don't think I really spoke for Tommy anyway. I just reiterated what his comments were when we had this conversation when it happened. For me, the issue was always about whether signing him was the right thing for the Redskins. And it was my view then, as it is now, that signing Ruben Foster, 72 hours after his seven, second domestic assault arrest in less than a year in the Me Too era wasn't good business for anybody, but in particular the Redskins, a franchise that had been losing customers by the tens of thousands on an annual basis and had already that year, last year, had a scandal involving sketchy treatment of their cheerleaders with sponsors, as the New York Times described in a story last year,

An incident that led to the team firing its COO, Dennis Green, and hiring Brian Lafamina. One of the reasons they hired Lafamina was to presumably help the team avoid these unseemly and embarrassing decisions that were contributing to lost revenue, both from fans and corporate sponsors as well. I just thought then, and still think now, that it was a bad business decision to sign Rubin Foster when they did it. I said on this podcast the day after the signing that while I'd very much like to take the contrarian view, which I always think about when it comes to any of these stories or discussions, because I'd love to be against the people that thought it was so heinous that they made this move and how tone deaf it was. I wanted to take the contrarian view and I thought about it from every angle, but I just couldn't do it.

They were the only team that put in a waiver claim for this player, and it was for obvious reasons. The other 31 teams didn't think that the negative PR juice was worth the squeeze. You know who didn't think it was right in the moment in context? Joe Thysman didn't. Joe Thysman has been the least likely former Redskin over the years to ever criticize the team. He didn't understand it at the time, saying, on this podcast that signing Ruben Foster so quickly was, quote, a head scratcher, closed quote. And he said, as we did, his feelings had nothing to do with a presumption of innocence or guilt.

That was never what it was about Leo and the others that tweeted us. I also criticized the league at the time for not stopping the Redskins from doing it for their own good. You know, I think the league just assumed that no one would sign him. One arrest, maybe, three arrests in just over a year, plus the Indy Combine incident. Remember that? Where he had the incident with the hospital worker? I mean, come on, there was just too much smoke, which is precisely why the 49ers, who knew him best, cut him loose,

and why the league thought nobody would even think about it. But, of course, one team did think about it, and they put in a waiver claim for him. And the league was upset about it. It was one of the reasons they leaked the information out that the Redskins were the only one of their 32 teams that decided to do it. This was on the league, though, to a certain extent. And I said it at the time. The league should have immediately put him on some list that prevented teams from signing him. Because not only was it not in the best interest of one of their teams to sign Foster, it wasn't in the best interest of the league. The league with a domestic assault

allegation environment with their recent history relating to domestic assault and the way they've handle them. You know, they didn't react. They didn't react in a way that I think would have helped them and the Redskins on this. They should have made him unavailable until yesterday when the charges were dropped. Then he should have been available. But again, the discussion from just about everybody on this topic, when it happened, or at least the people that I read and listened to and on this show, my feeling and Tom's feeling, was never about guilt or innocence. I just can't believe how many of you out there can't understand the distinction between the criticism over the timing of this and the environment in which they did it versus the presumption

of guilt or innocence. Those of you that don't understand that distinction would fit in easily with the people who run the team, because I wouldn't be surprised if the team thinks that they somehow were vindicated yesterday. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Now, if they had signed him last night, after the charges were dropped, it would have been different. Not for everybody,

but the rush to sign someone that was just arrested for a second time on domestic assault in the same year, that was a big part of the issue, especially for this team. It was a case of wrong guy, wrong accusation, wrong time, wrong team. I do think and said this at the time that they could have handled it much differently

when they decided to move forward and claim him. It's a claim on waivers, not a signing. I make that distinction right now because he's already under contract. They just claimed him off waivers. But I said at the time that there could have been a way to minimize the PR backlash. And And I said at the time that the way to minimize the PR hit was a strategy that owned it. If Bruce and Dan came out and said, hey, one of the two, I mean, it would have been Bruce, and it wasn't Bruce, it ended up being dug. But if Bruce came out and said, we signed Ruben Foster today, or we claimed Ruben Foster off waivers today, we did it for one reason and one reason only.

We think he can help us win. Own it. He could go on to say, we don't condone domestic. violence. And if he's found guilty, he'll never play for us, ever. And even if he's cleared of these charges, there's still a chance he won't play for us because the league may do its own investigation and decide that he's not eligible. But we're trying to win. We knew we'd take a PR hit and a brutal one. But we were willing to deal with it. And we're being honest here. It's about winning. We know we're on the wrong side of the PR battle. We are with almost anything we

do with most of you anyway. We don't ever get it right and that's fine. What we need more than anything else is to win and we need great players to do that and we think Ruben Foster and we thought it coming out of the 2017 draft is a great player. If he's cleared and he's eligible, he may play for us. We understand and respect the criticism that's headed our way, but we have to do what we think is the right thing for us. Done. Own it. I made this same rant right afterwards. I said, if you're going to do this, own it. If they had handled it in that way,

I think it would have been at least something that would have made them look like a group of people who had thought this thing out, and they weren't blindsided by it. But they didn't. Instead, they sent Doug Williams out there, and he messed it up, not intentionally, as most of us know, and most of us that know and love Doug.

He didn't intentionally mess it up, but he ended up having to apologize for his comments about the situation being small potatoes compared to, you know, I'm paraphrasing at this point, things that people do in high, high places. If they had handled it the way I just suggested and suggested at the time, Doug wouldn't have been put into that situation of saying what he did and then being forced to apologize for it. Another thing on this, these charges yesterday were dropped. but I think most of you with a brain know that when it comes to these cases, that doesn't mean that the League isn't going to conduct its own investigation. Given the sensitivity to domestic assault and the conversation of it in this country as it relates to that issue and as it relates to the NFL being criticized for its past handling of these cases,

the league, which is a private entity, may still use its own investigative arm to look into this further. I would think that they feel obligated to investigate this on their own. So it's not over, and suspension is not only possible, it's probable.

But anyway, no, I didn't presume guilt or innocence. You are 100% wrong on that, Leo. I never made my feelings of why I thought it was wrong to sign him about guilt or innocence. And I don't know anyone who did in this local market. So your 85% is way off.

You might be able to identify a person or two. Tweet me on that. I didn't read or hear anybody at the time that said anything about presumption of guilt or innocence. Or made it about presumption of guilt or innocence. I think, Leo, you just made that up. One more thing on this. And it's football related now. because now it appears there's a chance that Ruben Foster could play for the team at some point.

I'll read this other tweet that I got. I'm going to paraphrase it because I just remember it now and I forgot to copy and paste it into my notes for the show today. It came from Ryan. He said essentially, I'm not sure how to feel about Ruben Foster. I feel conflicted. I'm excited about the speed upgrade, but I also feel guilty. Okay, whatever. Let's talk about the player.

He is really talented. Talked about this too when they first signed him. He absolutely fills a need at inside linebacker. And perhaps, just perhaps, this place with former teammates, may be good for him. Maybe it will work out. I hope it does for a young man who is clearly, despite whichever charges were dropped or recanted or stuck,

like the weed charge or the incident, at the Indy Combine, he hasn't, for whatever reason, been able to stay away from trouble. So I hope he gets it together. And maybe John Allen and Ryan Anderson and Duran Payne and Sean Dion Hamilton, former teammates, maybe they are exactly what he needs. Kyle Shanahan said when the 49ers cut him that he had just become too hard to trust. Well, maybe with people who know him best, and at least a few that vouched for him, not all of them, but a few of them vouched for him,

maybe he'll turn things around, grow up a little, become the football player that many think he can become. He was a projected first half of first round player. He dropped because of all of the off-field concerns. We know that, but he is damn talented. And for those of you that hear others say, we don't even know if he's any good. Oh, he's good.

He's 6-1, he's 2.30, and he can run. And when he did play in 2017 for the Niners, he was at times excellent. Pro football focus, which I don't really think is the end all be all, and I've talked about that in the past. But for what it's worth, they ranked him first among rookie linebackers in 2017 in terms of his performance. You put him in there with Sean Dionne Hamilton inside, at inside linebacker, behind Payne Allen Ionitis. It's not bad on paper defensively.

The skins have needed speed and playmaking ability for so long. Zach Brown's got some speed and playmaking ability. Ruben Foster's upside is much bigger. He's an aggressive player, plays with a ton of confidence. He's not a lock to be great. I mean, we're not talking butt kiss. We're not maybe even talking Patrick Willis in terms of talent. We could be talking about somebody like Bobby Wagner.

We could if he maxed out. He's got tremendous upside. So from a football standpoint, he absolutely can help if he ever makes it to the field. One more comment about this, actually. I could be dead wrong on this, but the post headline on this story this morning, charges against Foster dropped again. To me is really implying that the story, doesn't really necessarily believe the female who dropped the charges,

that there is something there to all of this. And it's not crazy to believe that. And again, Tommy talked to the DA out of Santa Clara, and they didn't believe her when she recanted. They believed that he did that there was something there to her allegation. But I just thought that that was an interesting headline. It was certainly a leading headline as to the way they felt, in my view, in my view anyway. Caps lost last night. That's two losses in a row. This is the first, like, mini skid in a long time with the way they've been playing. And that's it. What other thing going back to the Redskins, why hasn't there been a move made yet? Like, other teams are interviewing coordinators right now. If we're presuming that Minoski is not coming back, they need to get on that.

I we're going to have Cooley on here shortly. I don't know the answer to that. I really don't. I'm sticking with what I thought last week and on Monday of this week. I still think there's going to be a change. I think Jay stays, but I think their coaching staff changes, including Minuscchi, but I still think that there's a chance that Bruce Allen is gone. And by the way, I retweeted, you can follow me on Twitter at Kevin Sheen, D.C.

I retweeted the story by Scott Allen, who wrote about what I talked about. about yesterday and it wasn't a revelation. Everybody knows that that's been following this story. I'm saying I didn't reveal anything, but just all of the reaction to anything the Redskins put out on social media. Scott Allen just wrote a story about that. There's also something going on with Zach Brown. I'm going to try to figure that out here this morning.

Burgundy blog was trying to help me understand it this morning. I guess Tarek wrote something in the athletic and Zah. Zach Brown threatened Tarek about it? It was hard to tell because he was responding to somebody else. I think he was responding to Burgundy Blog. So it was hard to tell if he was threatening Tark or Burgundy Blog. That's the way I felt. And so I actually, I contacted Burgundy Blog.

Burgundy Blog, he and I have been communicating for years now. And he does a good job. He's very mysterious. He or she is very mysterious. But certainly he ends up with a lot of information. But I thought it was difficult to follow as well. And that's why I reached out to him to say, what am I missing here?

Who is Zach Brown threatening exactly? And he said he thinks he was threatening Tark, Tark El Bashir, about a story that Tark wrote in The Athletic that indicated, here I'm going to read the, I'll read the stretch. This is from the athletic. Hold on. Where is it? Here it is.

From the athletic. This is a quote from Zach Brown. Quote, you can clearly see they don't want guys that hold players accountable. If you notice, no one except one person disagreed with DJ's comments that players aren't being held accountable, DJ Swaringer. Should he have said it the way he said it? Nah. Was he wearing people out with the way he was going about it? Hell yeah, but it's true.

I see why our organization is disrespected. They get rid of people that actually care and are trying to create a winning culture. That was in the athletic, right? Yes. It's part of TARC's story. And so then I guess Zach Brown tweeted out, SMH, shaking my head, effing reporters, wait till I see your ass. and he was responding to the quotes from the athletic. So there you go.

If he said it, he said it, right? I was going to say, I don't think Tark made that up. God, it's hard to take that out of context. That was a pretty long quote right there. It never stops. Cooley coming up. Smell test coming up. Let me first tell you about wind donation.

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Call 86690 Nation or visitwindonation.com. that's 86690 Nation or shopwindonation.com and tell them I told you to call. Coolie's coming up here shortly. He'll do Friday football quick picks with me. Andy Poland's going to join me today all season long and I told you last week. I appreciated you being a part of it all year long and you're going to come on here periodically too as we move forward with the podcast. Some people Andy thought, oh, football season's over. Are you going to do a podcast during the end? I'm like, yeah, I'm going to do one every day. What the hell? What else am I doing?

You know, it's like many people, and this is true, many people really thought that when you and Zabe were on radio and I was on radio, that it was just a Redskins season thing. Yeah. No, it's, especially in this town, you can talk, we've got the national town and things like that, and you can talk other sports. But I remember running into Chris Rousseau at a Super Bowl before we got the nationals here. Yeah, who does a serious XM and for many years, WFAN with Mike Francesa. And this was before we got the Nationals, which would have been in 2005. And he said, what do you guys talk about in the summer? And I said, we talk about the Redskins.

He says, well, what do you do without baseball? I go, oh, we don't have it. So somehow we seem to be able to fill three hours every day. But no, we don't have baseball to talk about. And now we do it, but there's so much, you know, stuff that this organization provides that you really could do sports talk without baseball in this town. Yeah, I mean, I think in recent years especially, we've exaggerated to a certain degree. For many years it was, look, this is a Redskins town first, and it still is despite the massive erosion of the fan base. But when it comes to, you know, sometimes people get confused with what, you know, the audience of sports talk radio in a town.

is versus what's important. You know, people actually, when the Redskins are controversial or they are doing things like they've done here over the last month and people enjoy the conversation about it. But I was getting to, there has been compelling stuff to talk about even during non-football season that's not football related here now for a few years running. The Nationals, obviously the Caps and their Stanley Cup run. And even in recent years, and you know, I love the NBA and I love basketball,

it was nice to be able to have a reason to talk about the Wizards in April and in May, the last four or five years, even though this year it may revert back to where it was before. But yeah, of course, sports talk radio year round, and it's not just about talking about the football team. I think some of the most compelling stuff ever done was, on the Jordan departure from the Wizards when Abe fired him. And, you know, that's when John Thompson had his bright and shining moment. He said, Abe pulled and treated Jordan like a whore.

And I thought that was really a high, lowlight of the whole situation. Right. All right. So talking about the Redskins in football, you wanted, you recognized an anniversary of sorts and wanted to talk about it. Go ahead. Well, whenever you dig into these things, you come up with. some juicy stuff where you go, oh my God. So tomorrow is the ninth anniversary of the Redskins

bringing in Mike Shanahan to coach the team. And I think we all felt at that point, okay, this nonsense is over with. Here's a guy who's won two Super Bowls. He's been in charge of an organization in Denver, which for many years was a model franchise. Snyder has realized this Zorn thing was a big mistake. He's going to step. out of the way. They had brought in a month or two earlier, Bruce Allen, who was going to be running the team. He wasn't Vinny, and everything

was going to be, right? Moving in the right direction. Didn't you feel that way? I did feel that way. I mean, I'm not about to reclaim a different position. You know, I always wanted a general manager and a general manager to hire the head coach,

but that was a close second. We all wanted change. We didn't want Dan and Vinny making football decisions anymore. And certainly didn't want Zorn as the coach. No, no question. So here is a quote that I dug up from the day that they hired Mike Shanahan. Quote, the status quo here has to end. We have to change the way we've been doing business. Do you know who said that? Bruce Allen. Yeah.

Bruce Allen said that. And Snyder said, I certainly accept responsible. responsibility for the problems that I've tried to correct, but I accept responsibility for them. So here are two guys nine years ago saying what we all say now and right, nothing's changed. Well, this is the point I made to Scott yesterday on the podcast because Scott, you know, did his thing on Sports Center the other day and it got a lot of attention. And I said to him privately end on the show yesterday. I said, here's the deal, though. See, we've been here before.

We've claimed rock bottom before. We claimed it in 2009. We claimed it in 2013, 2014, and we're claiming it now. And what happens is you think you're at an all-time low, but if you just wait, you know, a year or two or three or four, you know, you'll hit a new one with this organization. And I made that point to him because he felt like this was just the worst it's ever been. And I said, we claimed apathy was a big part of what was going on in 2009 for the first time. And you bringing up that quote, yeah, it was another rock bottom and another opportunity for them to try to make it right. Yeah.

And I got a Mike Wilbon column too from that day. Lead is, forgive me if I don't break open a bottle of champagne. The Redskins have been losers too much over the past 15 years, too dysfunctional in too many ways, too repeatedly stubborn to review anything close to the benefit or to receive anything close to the benefit. of the doubt. The Redskins can choose whomever they want to coach, but it doesn't matter. All in the management style, it doesn't change dramatically. Nothing is going to change. And here

we are. It's nine years later and there is nothing that has changed. And if Bruce Allen was sincere in saying that the status quo has to change, he's conformed. I mean, that's the way I feel. If he came into this organization in 2009 and said,

oh my God, this is a mess. The owner's meddling. They're hiring people who aren't competent. They're chasing too many stars. Now, one thing, one thing to their credit, I mean, the Hainsworth deal was pre-Allen and pre-Shanahan. And since Hainsworth, they really haven't gone in that direction unless you want to count Josh Norman, right? I mean, they haven't really chased the big-name superstars, which was part of the downfall of the organization in the early years of Snyder. No, there's no doubt about that. I mean, there was a big change with Bruce Alan. It's hard to

say otherwise. And I did this whole thing on the podcast either yesterday or the day before. I think it was the day before. And I said that, you know, and I had to explain it, but you'll understand what I mean. Bruce Allen was Dan Snyder's attempt to become a good owner,

to become a better owner. You know, he and Vinny had been running this organization into the ground with their strategy of overpaying and basically never negotiating a deal, just offering 20% above retail and getting it done and bringing in big names, you know, long after their effectiveness and usually the wrong kind of players into the organization.

Bruce was Dan's attempt to become a different owner. And he was a different owner and has been a different owner. Bruce is frugal. He's not player or agent friendly. You know, they've gone from the way they used to do things to now being the place that not only do people not want to come here because it's a losing environment and you don't want to work for this particular group of people, but they don't pay. They don't pay. Well, in retrospect, they did overpay Alex Smith when they didn't have to. I mean, theoretically, they could have brought him in when you're left on contract. That was really, I think we've sort of, and Tommy hit on this, and I think he's right to a certain degree.

It was they cover their own ass move. I mean, they needed a quarterback because they really did believe they were close, but they also wanted to change the narrative on the three previous years of contract franchise tags and contract negotiations gone wrong. Yeah, well, they said stability, but they brought in a quarterback at a similar age to Donovan McNabb. Now, McNabb was clearly on the downside in Philadelphia, whereas Smith had a great year last year in Kansas City, but you're putting your eggs into a business. very old basket and hope that it holds up. And in this case, it doesn't look like it did. But the other thing that I wanted to say about nine years ago in 2009, early 2010, you know, Bruce has proven to be not a very good football evaluator. And most people knew that at the time. He's been ineffectual as a leader. We've seen that. He negotiates a hell of a price for average players. We know he does that well. But I did

think at the time. And I still think to this day that the fiscal discipline that Bruce brought to the organization should have been helpful. It should have been a positive. It's just that all of the other stuff continued to happen to. Well, why is his record worse than Vinnie Serrano, though? How can you justify that? Well, Andy, I mean, I'm giving you the weeks worth of podcasts here, but I said the other day, at this point, why not let Dan go back to being the owner that he used to be? You know, why not go back to overspending? It couldn't possibly get worse. You know, it's not going to work in terms of sustained winning. But, you know, I'm sure at some point, you know, he's going to say, look, I did it his way, Bruce's way, and it isn't any better than the way I was doing it. So go out

and sign, you know, Lavian Bell and Jadavian Clowny. Hell, let's trade for Antonio Brown. Why not? Yeah, but who's going to be his football? Jim Harbaugh. Jim Harbaugh is going to come here? Bring a truck, to drive a truck full of money

up to Ann Arbor and hire Jim Harbaugh. You know? Yeah, and that's a three-year plan and also, this is a guy who's used to pissing off people above him. I mean, I know I know people. I didn't say it was going to work. Yeah, but I just said it couldn't get any worse.

This goes back to Stanford when he was on his way up, and before he got his big NFL job, he would schedule a meeting with the president of the university and then wouldn't show up and they'd call the office and go, yeah, Jim's out recruiting. So, you know, he was winning and they were happy about that because Stanford football had been terrible. But you think that this marriage between these two guys is going to work? I don't. I didn't say that. What I'm saying to you is that, and part of this was, actually, it really wasn't tongue-in-cheek, because I really think at this point, nothing's going to work. So for him, Dan Snyder, he might as well go back to having fun. If he's going to suck it being an owner, which he is, he's a bad owner, he might as well do it his way. And part of his way would be, at least for a short-term relationship, and you nailed that part of it, pay Jim Hart. Harbaugh, you know, 10 million a year to come down here and coach the team. Look, Andy, Jim Harbaugh, by the way, is a hell of a football coach. I don't care what anybody see. He's completely nuts off his rocker and would be impossible, I'm sure, to work with.

But not only did he win and win big, he won with a terrible organization and a bad owner in San Francisco and went 4419 and won in four years with three NFC title games and a Super Bowl appearance. But see, here's the only way that it gets fixed moving forward is if Dan Snyder has this epiphany that we've talked about, which he'll never have because he's too narcissistic about being a bad owner and truly, you know, turning it over to somebody of quality and competence and empowering that person. That's not going to happen. Or, you know, the best we can hope for is occasional limited success. And you're not going to get that without a decent coach. And they're not going to fluked themselves into the next Frank Reich, they have to go find somebody that's proven and pay them. But anyway, that's not weird. That's not what you wanted to talk about. You wanted to talk about Shanahan being hired nine years ago tomorrow. No, that's, I mean, that, and just going back on the quotes and the comments from Wilbon that, you know, we've been fooled before, and this is nine years ago. So you could, if they were to replace Gruden now and hire somebody else,

you could essentially write the same column. You know how it all played out. It was the initial Hainsworth, the conditioning test in his first year. Then he went through the whole Hainesworth-rigamer roll. He traded him. A couple years later, Hainsworth said some bad things about him. Shanahan lit him up. We had the whole RG3, rise and fall.

I mean, it was only four years, but it was, I think, you know, I have to think about this. I think the most eventful four years of the organization. Wouldn't you say that under Snyder? Snyder's on the team for 20 years. Those four under Shanahan, the ups and the downs and all the things that happened, wouldn't you say that was the most eventful four-year period of the 20? Boy, that is, that's a, that's a great conversation because the first few years with the, you know, fantasy football free agency and the, you know, the vanilla ice cream on the defensive coordinator's desk. Fire and Nord and Marty and all of that. And then Spurrier. I mean, but you're right. It was a crazy four years. And, you know, I've had so many conversations with Mike over the years. I enjoy him.

I think he's really intelligent. And most football people really respect Mike Shanahan, a ton. And some of the stories, you know, I think have been over the years, they've been misper. placed. They've actually been put in the wrong order or placed in the wrong location. As an example, Mike was for the RG3 trade. Now, if the salary cap penalty had hit before they made the trade, he would have never made the trade and he would have said, we can't make the trade. But he was for the trade and he was for drafting Robert Griffin III. But he told Bruce and Dan from the get-go, look, if we draft this player, we're going to have to play a different style of football for the first couple of years until he learns how to throw from an NFL pocket. Because Mike knew quarterbacks. I mean, Bruce and Dan don't know anything about quarterbacks.

Mike knew about quarterbacks, and he said, I think we can play a unique brand of football that will be exciting and we can win with. but we're going to have to basically give him his college system to a certain degree or part of it as he evolves into a drop-back passer. And so he's made it very clear to me that he told them this is what we were going to have to do. And then immediately they got upset when he started to run and take shots as a runner. But he was not. He was blindsided by the McNabb trade. Not that he didn't say, I will make the trade,

but he gave parameters on how much they would give up, and they gave up more than he wanted to give up to Philadelphia. And he also made it very clear, this is his side of the story, made it very clear to Bruce that Mark Bulger was his number one choice in terms of veteran quarterbacks, and Mark Bulger retired. And so that's why, and then the next thing Mike knew was on Easter Sunday, 2010, they told him that they had made the trade for McNabb, and they had traded, in his view, too much for him.

He didn't want to give up more than, you know, like a mid-round pick. And they did. And, you know, the truth of the matter is that McNabb year, there were some games where they had success. Oh, he was on track to throw for 4,000 yards. I didn't think he was that bad, but he obviously wasn't running the system. But back to the hiring of Shanahan,

When he was hired, the impression I got was it was going to be more like Marty where not a single paperclip got moved without Marty's approval. So for you to say that Mike Shanahan got blindsided, that kind of caught a lot of people off guard because it was like, whoa, how could this trade have taken place without Mike giving his deal of approval on the final parameters of the deal? Not finding out from somebody else what they gave up to get him. So right from the start, even before he had run a training camp,

there was now doubts about his authority. I think that that was mischaracterized in terms of, you know, he was going to have total final say-so over the roster. I think he was supposed to be the final say-so, and with respect to like the McNabb trade as an example, he said, we'll do it if Fulger's not available. Here are my parameters. And they got back to him with the, yeah, we had to give up a little bit more to get them.

But that was the move that, Bruce and Dan wanted to make. You know, McNabb was right out of the, this Snyder playbook from before, big splashy, you know, trade. But the, and Andy, do you remember, I'll never forget, you can attest to this. We worked for a station that Dan Snyder owned,

his Red Zebra Company owned for many years. And I can honestly say that not once was I ever called in, told you can't say that or we want you to say this not once you would say that too right never in fact they didn't take what you couldn't say there were there were things that they said you know we heard you tease this and we'd rather you'd do this right but there was no no no parameters right and and the biggest misnomer about all of us at that station is that we were somehow you know uh their their their their their pennant waivers you know that we were that would

somehow that we were their PR arm, which was never the case. We were very critical, but back to the McNabb thing. This is two times. Two times I heard from somebody that management wasn't happy. The night of the McNabb trade, ESPN called up and I went on ESPN, and I said the following. This kind of trade makes those of us that have watched this team for a long time wonder, why would Andy Reed trade Donovan McNabb within the division? It has to be something as a Redskin fan you consider.

Like he's a pretty smart guy. He knows quarterbacks. Why would he trade McNabb within the division? I got a call from our old friend Bruce Gilbert, who was the CEO and program director at the time, or the CEO, and he said, what did you say on ESPN? And I said, uh-oh, why? And he said, there's some people out at the park that are really upset.

with what you said. And I said, well, this is what I said. And you can go back and watch it. And he went back and watch it. And the next day, he said, yep, no, they exaggerated what you had said. And I saw it. It wasn't that bad. And then the other time, and I've told you this, was when, after, during a post-game show that Jacobi and I were doing, Jake got in the sauce a little bit, as he was a want to do in a post-game show. It was like 10, 12 beers later, and it's the third hour of the post-game show, and I'll never forget the game. It was the game at Lambo that they lost when Santana Moss fumbled. And Sean Taylor had a massive game that day, but they lost the game. And Jake in the third hour said, as long as Dan Snyder owns this team, we're never going to win. And he heard,

from Gibbs. Gibbs called him and said, you've got to apologize for saying that. Those are the only two times I ever heard about anything that was said with me anyway on the station. You may have had other examples. No, not really, but I had a similar Jake experience. I think it was before they owned the team. It might have been during the Spurrier days. And Jake used to show up at half time for these post-game shows. So there was only so much he could drink, even Jake. But this was a Spurrier game where they were behind and they were throwing on every down. So the game went about three hours and 40 minutes. So, but the time we hit the air, he'd had a few.

And he said something similar. But I think that other people, including Tom, who said it with me on WJFK, he said the same thing, Stone Cold Sober. This team won't win as long as Dan Snyder owns the team. Right, right. Well, I mean, it was at a restaurant. It was one of those post games from a restaurant, and they just kept bringing, you know, they just kept bringing beer after beer over.

Jake was the best. And Jake was always, you know, was always hesitant to really go after the team, but he had, he had enough that day. But anyway, the Shanahan four years were crazy. And to me, the thing that most, the thing that disappoints me the most, and I've told him this, is that I really felt like he should have told the owner, if you force me to play this guy, I'm going to resign. I'm going to resign. Because ultimately, the owner's involvement and the relationship he had with the star quarterback was destructive to the team. It was. This is, you know, I said that he became a different owner with Bruce. He did with respect to a lot of the ways that they managed the roster. But he couldn't stay away from developing a relationship, a relationship that empowered Griffin to the point where he had more power than many of the coaches.

including potentially the head coach. And I just thought Mike should have walked. You know, that all in for week one, there was no way that the owner was going to put up with Griffin not starting that Monday night game against Philadelphia, even though I think the head coach thought that the early portion of that season that they would have been better off had he not played. Oh, no question. I mean, the news conference that he had after the last exhibition game where he said Dr. Andrews has cleared him, but I still have some questions. And then they went back to Andrews.

He said there are no questions. I mean, the whole thing was just a, you know, a ridiculous circus as usual. But the thing I, you know, that we do have to credit Snyder for. In the 20 years, he's owned the team. He has convinced a Hall of Fame coach to come back and coach the team. And he's convinced two others who were borderline Hall of Famers in Marty and Chanahan to coach this team. He must be a good salesman. He must be a good salesman.

but let's also not forget that that's when they were overpaying by miles, you know, and the money, money, you know, Joe, Joe wanted, I think Joe wanted the money in that particular instance. Yeah, I do. I do. And Marty got a massive deal and Mike got a massive deal, but I don't disagree with you. I think you are right. And I think that one of the reasons he was successful in that very first business is that he was a relentless, high energy salesman. You know, and a great one-on-one, you know, salesman. I think that's true. And the next time he tries to do this, to your point about bringing in somebody like Jim Harbaugh,

he's now got history. He's got Jim Harbaugh the ability to call, well, Marty's got some Alzheimer's now, but he's got the ability to call Mike Shanahan and go, Mike, what's in this organization? And he could tell him everything he needs to know. So that's going to make him more difficult. There wasn't that kind of history when Shanahan was hired nine years ago. Exactly. All right. Thank you. I'll talk to you soon.

Thank you. Have a good weekend and thanks for having me on. All right. Andy Pullen, everybody. Let me tell you quickly about Ferrish Chrysler Dodge Jeep in Fairfax. Farish right now still has a lot of that inventory on their lot that they wanted to get rid of by the end of the year. So there are still some deals to be had early in the new year. Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Cherokee, the Jeep Wrangler and the Ram pickups, lots of all of those on the lot, you'll probably be able to find the make, model, and color, and drive it home today. They've got a used car a lot. Talk to Ralph Perkins the other day. If you're in the market for a used car, they've got a lot of used cars right now. They're trying to move those as well,

so you'd get a good deal on those. And even though it's Ferrisch, Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, they also have a Subaru dealership. So if you've been thinking about a Subaru, head out to Ferris as well. Ask for Ralph when you get there. He's the best guy. He's in the store all the time. You can find out all you need to know at ferrishcars.com, live inventory, live pricing, and the best deals at ferrish cars.com. All right, let's bring in Chris Cooley for his weekly visit here on the podcast. We're going to do some Friday football quick picks, and I really, more than anything else, want to talk about these games this weekend because I think that all these games are actually very interesting. And I want to get your thoughts on them. But, you know, you're here on the podcast, and a lot of the conversation this week has been about the Redskins. So I will start with this. What in God's name is going on out there? Like, there's been total silence since the end of the Philadelphia debacle in front of a road, you know, as basically a road game at home. And I think the fan base and the hashtag fire Bruce Allen,

movement is all sitting here on pins and needles waiting for something to happen. What the hell's going on out there? I mean, believe it or not, I just got my deal done as the new general manager. You did? Yeah, congratulations to me. All right. Yes. Woo! Cool. He's the general manager. I've been waiting to tell you. I knew you'd be excited. I'm so excited. Did you negotiate a good deal? because I... No, it's more of a handshake deal. I'd said, just pay me if I win, and we'll go from there. But I did say one thing in writing,

I need this guy that manages a clock for me. So I got a new calculator purchased already for you, and we're going to have you in and get you going on everything you need to do. We're excited to have you, though, if you want to go and take it. So we're not being serious about Cooley being hired as the Redskins general manager, just for those of you that thought there for a moment that we were being serious. I know, but we have to, we got to clarify that. But I do want you to make everybody aware of the fact that if you were ever in position of power

to hire a clock manager game slash clock manager as part of the coaching staff that you indeed would hire me. I would in fact hire you if I was in power to be my first hire. Yes. The first hire? I'd be your first hire. You know I would negotiate a pretty good deal for myself. Well, I'd make you do more than that. I know.

What else would you make me do? I mean, you'd be my PR guy. Right. I think I could handle that. I think you'd do a great job of handling all public relations. All the big deals you'd come out in front of and tell me what to say. You'd write speeches for me, which I'd appreciate. I've done that before.

All right. I get out there mowing the lawn every once in a while if we had some grass. That part I might have a difficult time doing. Actually, that's not true. I had lawns when I was a kid. I had a business of cutting lawns. I just don't cut my lawn now. All right.

So seriously, is anything going to happen here or is everybody back? I don't have an answer for you. And I'm saying that in all sincerity. And I think that it's going to come soon if anything or something or whatever it is. I think there are a lot of people in the parking limbo right now. And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe by Friday or by today we're talking and everyone knows exactly what they have in their future. year. Maybe they've been told and the Redskins will put it out over the next day. Or maybe not.

Maybe you spend another week deciding. It's really, I think, fascinating as it unfolds. But I would say this, if there are going to be any changes, at least staff-wise or if you would do anything. Look, I don't know. You'd want to do it before all the head coaches start getting jobs because if you wanted to make any moves, you don't want staff eaten up by every other organization. So I'm sure if they had any plans, it will be in the near future. You wouldn't want to wait until the end of month on that, although it's happened in the past. But I think everyone wants to know, and I can't tell you. I have no idea what the plan is and what the future holds here in the next year, if it's any change or if it's the same. You know, as you were sitting there talking about,

you know, there's movement. You know, there are people being interviewed. There's staffs being created. There are openings and there's a lot of activity in the league with respect to the candidates that are out there. And as you were talking, I was thinking that, you know, on some level, there's nothing wrong with being patient. There's nothing wrong with thinking everything through and not acting impulsively, which they've done in the past. But at the same time, part of the reason perhaps they haven't figured it out yet, if that's the case, is that they were, caught off guard. They were caught off guard by the reaction, which has been now, excuse me, which has now been printed and reported that they were stunned, that the owner was stunned by the

reaction of the fan base and this, you know, he wasn't specific about this or the report wasn't specific about this, but this hashtag fire Bruce Allen movement is incredible. It's overwhelming. We've never, in all of the rock bottom moments, Cooley, I don't think we've ever seen anything like this hashtag fire Bruce Allen movement. It's a movement. I mean, I don't know what to tell you. I don't think that's, I don't know if that's something that's caught anybody off guard

or if that's something that they think that deeply into. And so I don't know what the thought process is on that. You don't think they care is what you're saying. It doesn't, that's not going to move them. That's not going to move them. Whether or not it moves them, everyone cares. It's not fun to be disliked.

Nobody really likes to be disliked. I mean, they're not WWE wrestlers who create a living out of being the heel. No one wants to be disliked. You don't, I don't. No one does. It's not fun. It's not fun for people around you. It's not fun for people that work for you.

It's not an enjoyable experience. So to say that no one cares, that's not. I can't. I can't believe that. And to say that they're not aware, I just think that how could you not be aware? But it doesn't mean that it impacts your decision process, you know. Are they feeling vindicated out there? I know you may not have the answer specifically,

but do you think is your gut instinct that they feel vindicated, that the charges against Ruben Foster were dropped? I don't know if they feel vindicated. I don't know if they knew. Look, I'm going to answer it in terms of, had I made that move without saying anything I would have done. You wouldn't have made it. But in the hypothetical, had I done that and been in that environment,

had I not, had I handled the way it was handled, and I made the move the way it was made and done all the things, I would feel vindicated. I personally think I would feel that to some extent, but that's the hypothetical if I were in that exact situation. I don't know if they feel vindicated. I would bet you more than not. they feel excited that they have a good player, which is what Ruben Foster is.

Yes, he is. I mean, I think more importantly than vindicated, I think they're probably excited that they have a starting inside linebacker. Right. But just to be clear, because you said this on this podcast, when it happened, you would not have signed him. You would not have considered the juice worth the PR-negative squeeze. yeah I did absolutely say that and I think that there's a lot into the previous history of Rubin and I'm not trying to say that he's not a good guy but just into what it is no I don't know if in that time that it was the thing I would have I would have personally done

right did you see but here's the one thing I will say now ever there was no other team that claimed his rights off waivers but there is an intelligence that goes on within the NFL security and within the NFL circles, that there is some more that they understand. Nobody that worked in, I guess some people that worked in the media, but none of our fans called and talked to the San Francisco 49ers and talked to the coaches at Alabama and did the research that they did and probably went into depth with how likely is this scenario that is true,

which I'm sure they did. Right. Okay. Did you see One other thing Did you see the Zach Brown Comments in the Athletic? Did you read those yet this morning?

I missed the athletic this morning, man. Okay, so I just saw... The paper didn't show up at my door to the day. I know. I just saw them reprinted on Burgundy blog. But Zach Brown told Tark El-Bashir in a story for the athletic,

quote, you can clearly see they don't want guys that hold players accountable. He's talking about DJ Swaranger. If you notice, no one except one person disagreed with DJ's comments that players aren't being held accountable. Should he have said it the way he did? Nah. Was he wearing people out the way he was going to going about it? Hell yeah. But it's true. I see why our organization is disrespected. They get rid of people that actually care and are trying to create a winning culture. Was there only one person? Was there only one person in the organization that cared about DJ's Sweringer's comments?

I don't believe that in any way, shape, or form. First of all, I can tell you that there's a whole staff of coaches that I would bet money on disagreed with comments. Again, I try to be careful when I say this, because coaches didn't tell me they disagreed, but if I were coaching, I would certainly disagree with his comments. I think it's a little faux paw to make those types of comments. You and I have had this discussion. There are coaches that I disagreed with, you can guess who it is.

But every coach I had disagreements with, it's just not part of what you do. The one thing, look, not everybody agreed with the comments, and not everybody came out and publicly supported DJ. But he's their teammate, and they have the right to do that. Just because seven or eight guys, how many guys came out and tweeted, this is blasphemy. Five, three or four? It wasn't more than that.

It wasn't more than that. It wasn't more than that. We want to do this deal where we put everybody into some click or some pot of this group supported someone and this group said this and because John was the only one that tweeted, I didn't think that the calls were bad. Doesn't mean that other people didn't feel that way.

A lot of guys don't like getting caught up in it. A lot of guys have feelings and have conversations. in the building, but don't want to be caught up in it publicly. I think John felt strongly in terms of supporting his organization and his coach, and so he did what he did. Most people, Cooley, don't want to get caught up in confrontation, you know, especially when it's not specific to them. Most people don't.

But that's one of the, that's the thing, that's the nature of so many, so many problems that we have going, three or four people bang a drum, really. loud and everybody wants to look and say, well, they say everybody feels that way. And I mean, for Zach, if I were sitting there, if it really mattered to me, I would say, tell me the names. I want to know who. I want to know who fully supported it, and I want to know who was against it, and I want to know who you're close with. And then I would go have a discussion with those players.

Like, I would just find out. And so I hate that everybody statement or that looping everyone into the mixed statement. If he supported him, say I supported him. And I'm fine with that. You know, I liked DJ Sweringer a lot as a guy. You know, I liked him a lot as a player. I feel the same way that John feels. I disagree with his statements,

and I also disagree with him making those statements. I don't think it's the right place for him to do that. He's not his job. It's not his role to come out and publicly tell everyone what we're doing. So, again, you know, I just don't like looping everyone into the mix. you handle, though, that situation? I know what you said. You've said it before that you would have probably moved on from DJ Swaranger, too, after that that would have been the last straw. But with respect to, you know, let's just say one day, all right, one day you actually have authority in an NFL

organization. And you've got this player that's outspoken and you decide that you're going to release that player. You know, as a group, you decide you're going to release that player. How would you explain it to everybody. Would it be a, you know, come to Jesus moment? Like, this isn't how you win. We can't win with players like that, or would you even feel that way? Everything I do when it comes to those, that type of situation, I tend to track back to the way Joe handled it, the way that Gibbs handled it. Now, obviously, understand that you're saying that I'm the all-being power and that I don't have to answer to anybody else, or I can make this decision on my own, which isn't always the case, and in a lot of organizations,

and a lot of times it's got to be run through certain groups of people. But as far as Joe went, if you didn't believe in what we're doing and you don't want to be here, then that's fine with me. I'll help you leave here. And players understood that. You had a choice. Buy into the guys around you and the coaching staff, unity in a building, or don't. And when you don't, you can leave.

And so handling, in my opinion, would be setting a standard immediately upon walking into an organization of, this is the things that we do, this is the things that we don't do. And, you know, you've got to get to know the guys, you've got to get to know who he is, you've got to get to know his feelings. And it can happen once, in my opinion. Maybe, you know, it happened seven times with DJ. Maybe something else can come up and that time is kind of like the three-strike rule. And maybe it's so bad that it's not three strikes, you know.

The gravity of what he says, if it's completely out of line, it doesn't have to be. But the way he said it, I think by the third time he said something, I would have had two conversations already, and I would have calmly said, you know, we set rules and you knew what you had in front of you, and you made your own decision. So we appreciate everything you've done here, and we wish you the best of luck. All right, let's do some Friday Football Quick Picks and talk about these playoff games. Yeah, because that's what my weekly spot is supposed to be. I love that I have a weekly spot now.

Me and Scott Van Pelt. The two of you. We're so famous. Everything you need to know for your football weekend. It's Friday Football Quick Picks. We've got four NFL playoff games, and then Monday night we've got the National Championship game. And I know you were watching some of the bowl games because I talked to you during one of those bowl games. I can't remember which one now. Let's take these games in order and start

with Colts Texans tomorrow, 435. The Colts, you know, started 1 and 5. Thank God they beat the Redskins. They wouldn't be sitting here in the postseason. That was the big win that kept their season alive early, and the Texans lost their first three and went 11 and 5. What do you think of this one? I am so impressed with what both of these teams have done this year. I mean, Houston bouncing back from what they've had, you know, an O'N3 start, and Bill O'Brien really having a resurgent year as a coach. Sean Watson's been sacked 62 times this season. If you can believe that, it's the most of any quarterback to make the playoffs since the merger,

or since the Super Bowl era is really what I think it is. It's unbelievable that they overcome all of the negative. setbacks that they've had on offense, but their defense is outstanding. I just like Indy, man. I think that there's something to that team. You know, defensively, they don't have a bunch of stars, but they play sound. They stunt. They give you games.

They give you a ton of trouble up front. I think that will mess with Houston, especially in terms of protecting the passer. And then Andrew Luck's been unbelievable this year. I think the one problem that Indy has is, T.Y. Hilton's questionable, Inman's questionable, Pascal's questionable, and Ryan Grant's out, and they really didn't have any receivers anyways. Right. So what's it going to be? The Ebron show? I think it's going to be tough. He's been great. I mean, he's been great for them. I mean, it has a lot to do probably with the quarterback in the scheme.

But Ebron, when he came out of North Carolina, he was a talent. I was always surprised that it didn't work. I think you and I had conversations about him. I always liked him thought it was a surprise that it didn't work out with Stafford and with that. system with Jim Bob Cooter, and it's clearly worked out with him in Indianapolis. Yeah, it's going to be a great game. I think that's going to be a fun game to watch. Both teams have so much going for them right now and in different ways. I can't bet against Andrew Luck in the playoffs. I think his playoff experience is going to be tremendous. I think Reich knows how to game plan and scheme things up, and he's got a massive challenge in front of him with that Houston defense. I mean, you're talking about a legit defense in Houston. So it'll be a good one.

My pick would be Indy. And I think Houston's two and a half point favorite. I think now it's basically one everywhere they opened at two, two and a half. I think it's mostly one, one and a half everywhere. Did you know that D'Andre Hopkins did not have one dropped pass the entire season? In fact, I did on like 160 targets. It's the first time anybody has done that, as long as I can remember. I had not one drop pass in one season, though I just didn't have that many targets. Right. Yeah, well, I would imagine that you didn't drop many balls.

I got a few here and there. I like Houston. I've liked them for a while now. If they had beaten Philadelphia, the Eagles wouldn't be in. And really that clowny roughing the passer call was hurtful to the Texans in that game. and cost them the two-seed. I think if they had been the two-seed and had this weekend off, I think they would have been in the AFC title game.

Now they've got to win this week and then go to Foxborough and win next week. I think of the two teams, Houston's got the best chance of going to Foxborough and winning next week. Do you agree with that or not? It sounds like you probably don't. I think they're pretty equal in terms of who each team. You know what? Bill Belichick just seems to have Bill O'Brien.

number. Yeah, he does. For whatever it is, Bill Belichick seems to have such a good feel for Bill O'Brien. And I think, you know, Frank Reich is the guy that's a little bit, a little bit more creative. He's going to give Bill some more problem. I mean, he did it last year in Super Bowl, buddy. I like Houston in this game, but I feel the same way you do. I'm looking forward to it.

Let me ask you one more question. Who do you want to win this game? Houston. See, I love this indie story. and I think that's maybe swaying the way I feel about it a little bit. I just think this is such a good story. I mean, talk about a team of no names other than a couple offensive linemen. By the way, Andrew Luck was at the least times in the NFL this season

after the Colts quarterbacks were sacked the most times in the NFL last season. I know. Their offense, they did an incredible job with their offensive line this year, and Frank Reich was really, you know, another guy from that Philadelphia staff that, you know, the Andy Reid staff originally, that has really developed into what looks like a star coach. You have not. The reason I'm rooting for Houston is I have jocped them a little bit this year,

saying at various points during this run that I thought they were capable of winning the Super Bowl. And I do, still, I think they could win three games and get to the Super Bowl. They're a team of stars. I mean, you don't think about the Texans necessarily that way, but you've got Hopkins, you've got Watson, you know, I love Lamar Miller, you've got Watt and Clowny and Merciless, et cetera. They're capable. And you've never liked Bill O'Brien. I've never had the problems with him that you've had, because I always felt like they overachieved when they were winning the division and winning, you know, some first round playoff games before.

But this is his best team, no doubt his best team, because he's not had a quarterback before, and now he has a quarterback. All right, let's move on to the next game. Dallas, Seattle. You know what I like about Seattle? I watched Seattle on film this morning for about two hours. They are what Joe Gibbs' offense would be if Joe Gibbs was coaching today. They are mini-rams.

They run the ball more than anybody else. They have amazing success running the ball. They go play action pass. Russell's able to get the ball downfield and a lot of play-action shots. If he doesn't get the ball downfield, the scrambling ability is unbelievable. They can't protect him as far as a drop-back guy, and he's not a dropback guy.

But the way they've run the ball is unbelievable. They bring in an extra tight end. Or they bring in an extra alignment to play tight end. They literally play without a tight end. They play with six offensive linemen. So four weapons. I think Seattle's defense is good enough to beat Dallas. You stop Ezekiel Elliott and you're going to be fine.

I didn't like Seattle before yesterday. I like Seattle in this game now. But you've got to go to Dallas and play, which is a big challenge. Is it fair to say that Pete Carroll is a great coach? Yeah, I think it's fair. I think he's innovative and I think he adapts as he can. That's the thing. Great coaches adapt.

If you look at the way the Seattle offense has adapted, they've been awesome. Their backs are very good too. I like Dallas. I'm not rooting for Dallas. I like Dallas at home. I think they're very good defensively and I think they're going to be able to move the football a little bit. Let's go to Sunday. To me, the most interesting team to watch in this postseason is Baltimore for a lot of reasons.

I know you find them fascinating on some level. to watch as well. I'm rooting for Rivers, as you know, because I love Phillip Rivers. How do you see that game going? You know, they played what, three weeks ago, two weeks ago? Two and a half, yeah. That Baltimore defense is unbelievable, man. I mean, they are just, they communicate so well, they work so well together, they're fun to watch. It's the most fun defense to watch in the league. Rivers have struggled a lot lately. In the last three games, he hasn't been very good, but I think he's going to end up being pretty good in this game. They had to play the last game in Baltimore. They're still a 12-win team that has an outstanding defense.

I like them a lot to beat Baltimore. Plus, they've seen Lamar Jackson in that offense, which is like Ken Neumato Lolo's offense. But, I mean, it's – Lamar Jackson's crazy. So I like them a lot. It's strange, too. They've played their best football on the road this year.

All right, you've got to go also real quickly on the last game. Who do you like? Yeah, I like Chicago. That defense is unbelievable. And with Nagy offensively, they create – they have a lot of balance. They can run the ball with heavy personnel. they can bounce it out, they can play and spread you out on the field.

Trubitsky's got a ton of his hands. It'll be up to him, and Fulz has got the experience. But still, Chicago's just a better team. Me too. I like Chicago a lot. All right, thanks. Appreciate it. All right, thanks to Cooley. He had to scram there quickly at the end.

That's why we went so fast at the end with the last few games because he forgot he had something to do, and they were waiting for him to do it. Let's finish up the show with the smell test. Kevin looks where the John Q Public is putting their cash, and does the opposite. It's time for the smell test. All right.

Last week was the first losing week in the last seven that I had. Not only did I have six winning weekends in a row, but they were all monster weekends. Like they weren't, you know, three and two weekends. They were seven and one weekends, 13 and five, three and oh. I was rolling there for a six-week stretch, and I figured it would eventually come to an end. Five and eight if you take the extended weekend through New Year's Day

in the bowl games that I had. 107, 83, and 4 now on the year. So I'm going to have for the ninth time in 13 years of doing this smell test on radio or on podcast, a winning season. So we've got, you know, three weekends of playoffs, got one more college game and then obviously the Super Bowl at the very end. I will just tell you that this weekend, I don't really love any games.

I've got one smell test selection this weekend, and that is it. I'm going to give you liens on all of the games, but I've got one smell test pick, and I'll get to that in a moment. But I wanted to mention something real quickly. Two categories, statistical categories that I have always felt are very important in the NFL in particular. And I wanted to mention this to everybody. Turnover margin, that's an obvious one, right? Turnover margin this year, the top seven teams in turnover margin are, are all in the postseason.

Seattle was plus 15, Houston was plus 13, Chicago was plus 12, the Rams were plus 11, the Patriots were plus 10, the Chiefs were plus 9, and the Saints were plus 7, plus 8, excuse me. The top 7 teams, 7 out of the 12 teams, the top 7 were at the top of the turnover margin category.

If you're wondering about the other playoff teams, okay, so, Dallas had a positive turnover margin, Indianapolis had a positive turnover margin, as did the Chargers. The only teams in the postseason with a negative turnover margin were Philadelphia, they finished minus six, and Baltimore, the Ravens finished minus three.

Ten of the 12 teams in the postseason had positive turnover margins, just two, the Ravens, and the Eagles had minus turnover margins. One other quick statistical category that I pay attention to a lot. I always pay attention to rush defenses, defenses that are really good at stopping the run, and I look at teams that are really good at running the football as well. In the rush defense category,

Chicago was won, New Orleans, 2, Houston 3, Baltimore, 4, Dallas 5. Top five teams were playoff. teams. Pittsburgh was six. They did not make the playoffs. And then Philadelphia was seven, Indy was eight, the Chargers were nine. So eight of your top nine rush defenses in the NFL are in the post season. From a rush offense standpoint, which I also typically like to look at. And, you know, sometimes some of you will say, look, yards allowed isn't fair because these teams get leads and then other teams they start throwing the football and they're not running as much. And we can look at yards per attempt and a lot of those teams were up in that category as well.

But in terms of rushing offensively, Seattle 1, Baltimore 2, the Rams were 3. Carolina was 4. They didn't make the postseason. New England was 5. New Orleans was 6. Houston was 8. Dallas was 10. So Chicago 11.

So you had in the top rushing yards per game category, you had eight of your top 11 were playoff teams. Anyway, let's get back to the smell test. I'm going to give you the leans on each of these games, but I'll start with the one game that I'm giving out officially as a smell test pick. The Chicago Bears laying the six and a half are a smell test. test pick. Look, first of all, you've got this. Everybody seems to think that, oh, the Eagles are dangerous. They got in. They're the defending champions. They're dangerous. A lot of people like Philadelphia based on their experience, based on being the defending champion, and Chicago being new to this. Chicago open five, five and a half. They're up to six and a half. There's some sharp money on them.

There's not overwhelming public action on Philadelphia, but there is public money, more of it, on Philadelphia than Chicago based on the information I have as of early this morning. Give me Chicago a latest six and a half. I think they're a really good football team. And I think at home, even though the weather is not supposed to be bad, we're not going to have any weather issues in the two outdoor games. It's going to be beautiful in Baltimore on Sunday, abnormally mild. Chicago unusually mild as well.

The bears are the one smell test pick laying the six and a half. I'll give you liens on the other games, all right? None of these are strong liens. They are liens based on who I like and just a hunch that the public action will lean towards the other team by the time we get to kick off. Most of these games are pretty much split right now with the exception of one of them.

I like Houston laying the point. I just have liked Houston all year. I have shorted Indianapolis for much of the year. I understand what they're doing. I think it's impressive. I think they're well coached. I think they protect luck so well. That was so evident Sunday night

against a good Tennessee defense. I like Houston at home, though. I think they've got stars on both sides of the ball. I think they are also well-coached, and I think Watson makes plays, and Watt and Clowny in that group. They make enough plays to win the game at home and advance. I like Dallas on Saturday night.

I'm not rooting for them. I'll be rooting for Seattle, but I think Dallas has the versatility offensively now. I think they are able to run the football, and I think Dak will be, I think he played great in that giant game that they went out and tried to win. I think that they are going to be able to use play action and use boot and run the football.

And I think defensively, Dallas, if you don't think they're great defensively, I think you've missed it. I think they're exceptionally talented. I think they're very good. I think they'll be good at home. this will be a big-time cowboy home crowd. You're not going to have a lot of Seattle in the crowd.

I like the Cowboys laying the two on Saturday night to advance. Baltimore and the Chargers. I'm rooting like hell for... The one rooting interest I have in this postseason is Philip Rivers. Now, if he doesn't win the game, because I picked the Ravens before the season to go far this year, then I will root for them to a certain degree to back up my early season prediction that they would go deep into the postseason.

But I'm rooting like hell for Philip Rivers. I really want him to finally be acknowledged for being a good postseason quarterback. And unfortunately, by not winning the division, and they had a chance to had they beaten Baltimore two weeks ago, just over two weeks ago at home. And not only did they not win that game, they got manhandled in that game, which is why I'm going to lean Baltimore laying the three in this. game Sunday at 1 o'clock. I hope that the Chargers can pull it off. I hope Philip Rivers can pull it off. I would love to see the Chargers next week in Arrowhead against the Chiefs in a rematch of what was

really one of the best games of the year from a couple of weeks back. But I think Baltimore and that defense are going to shut the Chargers down again. And I think they're going to win, you know, a 23 to 14 kind of game. So I like Baltimore laying to three. So the only official smell test, pick is Chicago laying the six and a half, but the liens are Houston, Dallas, and Baltimore. And I just basically gave you, I did, I didn't basically, I gave you all four home teams and all four home favorites, which is so unlike me. So unlike me. But again, the only official play is the Bears minus six and a half. As far as the Monday night game, we'll save that conversation for Monday. We'll preview that game on Monday with somebody. I'm trying to

to get Trevor Madditch on the show, but it is not going to be a smell test pick, more likely than not. There's a chance that could change between now and Monday, but the action on Bama and Clemson is from a public standpoint, a public money standpoint, is really sort of split right down the middle. Anyway, thanks to Andy, who joined me today, thanks to Cooley. If any of you missed Joe Banner or Scott on yesterday's show, a lot of you really enjoyed both interviews, and a lot of you that had not heard Joe Banner before really enjoyed that. He was great. Look, he's a 20-year-plus NFL executive. He's got real insight on how organizations, you know, how they work, and how you can build a winner, and what's wrong with the Redskins, and he had suggestions on what could make

it right, although he was not very optimistic that they would happen. But if you missed that, that show, and all the shows are available, you know, any way you get this podcast. Before we go, we just have to give you credit. You complained about the Maryland Times yesterday. Oh, right. They changed one of the two remaining 630 games. They didn't do it because of me, but I guarantee you somebody out there had the same thought I did, and that is we can't do these 630 games.

Give us the 7 o'clock tip. Look, 7 o'clock's not good either. I wanted to make this clear. Many of you said, Kevin, it wouldn't have been that much different at 7 o'clock. I agree with you. I totally agree with you on that point. I don't like the 7 o'clock's either. I want Maryland at home on a weeknight to play the later game.

It is the, and many of you pointed out, Rutgers is a city school, you know, and Northwesterns in Chicago. I get it, but they don't attract the crowds that Maryland attracts to home games. Maryland has an arena that seats 18,000 and sells out a ton of games most years. But if you're going to play these games at 630 on weeknights in a city like D.C., going to be hard for people to make it to a 630 tip. And I suggested yesterday they move it to the later time for the BTN games, which would have been 845, right, 830.

830, I think, yeah, 830. And if they insist on at least one or two, 630 games, play them when the students get back. Because when the students are back in session, you're going to get a decent crowd at the Maryland game because they don't have to deal with rush hour traffic. They're already there. Have a great weekend. Thanks to Aaron. He did a great job. Again, does a great job every one of these shows. Listen to some of the old shows if you missed them from this week. We had some really fun shows all week long. Back on Monday to recap all of the NFL playoff games and maybe we'll have some Redskins news by Monday. Have a great weekend, everybody.