The Kevin Sheehan Show - Skins' GOAT

Episode Date: June 30, 2022

Kevin and Thom today tackled a menu of excellence. They started with Thom's appearance last night on NBC 4 News. They talked about David Simon, The Wire, and Thom's current journalistic investigation before getting to Terry McLaurin's heartfelt thank you letter to family, friends, front-office, and fans. They discussed the Philly Voice's prediction of a Commanders' 2022 dumpster-fire season. Kevin tried his best to interest Thom in the crazy Nats-Pirates' play from yesterday's 8-7 loss. And then, it was FanDuel's list of the GOAT players for each NFL team to finish up.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. Terry McLoren just sent out a very, very heartfelt note to everybody that has been involved in his life

and contributed to this momentous day two days ago when he signed this big contract extension. I'm going to read it to you. I don't think Tommy's read it yet, so we'll get Tommy. reaction. I want to start by just reminding everybody they can rate us and review us on Apple and Spotify. Apple in particular is really good for us. This review came in from Kid Kire via Apple podcast, Tommy. He writes, Longtime Skins fan in New York. By the way, I would say that most, I know what the percentage of breakdown DMV versus the rest of the country and the rest of the world, because you know this is a worldwide podcast.

You know that. I didn't need to tell you that. But people listen to this podcast all over the world. But it does seem like over the last couple of weeks, every time I read one of these reviews, it's somebody who listens to us outside of the area, doesn't it? Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Well, you just, you know, need to start picking some DMV people. I guess I should. But most of them that seem to be, that include you, in the review, which I try to read those when you're on. They tend to be from outside the area.

So anyway, this is from Kid Kier. He said longtime Skins fan in New York, love the pod. Kevin, just watch The Wire already, will you? And ask Tom if he's watched the new David Simon series, We Own This City. Have you watched that? Yes, I have. It was not the series.

It was a mini-series. It was like six episodes. Was it good? Yeah, it was very good. I mean, David Simon's never made a bad series. He's made some that are better than others, but it's a remarkable body of work that he's put together on HBO. And this was the most interesting about we own this city,

and it's based on this investigation into a specific unit of the Baltimore Police Department that was horribly corrupt. and that was uncovered by up there. And it's also connected to the federal consent decree that the Justice Department put on Baltimore because they found their police department so corrupt. The thing that was illuminating for me is, you know, look, you and I have read stories about people getting off in court, you know, like not being convicted in court when it clearly seemed that they were guilty in like, in like big cities like Baltimore and Washington where you have city juries.

Have you ever read stories like that? You know, you have a city jury. Of course. And a guy gets off. Right. And it illuminated me. I guess I should have been this naive to it if I just didn't think about it, that it's hard in those, particularly in Baltimore, to pick a jury. where you have people who have not had or had a relative who had a bad interaction with the police.

It's almost impossible. So it's difficult to pick a jury that will believe the police under any circumstances. This is why cases that should be a lock wind up being acquitted because people don't believe the police. because they've had a relative up there who has been, you know, harassed or beaten or arrested legitimately or anything. So that was a little bit illuminating for me. Well, I mean... Now I have a little bit more understanding about that. Is it fair to say that kind of the all-time police revenge story was the OJ trial?

Yeah. Yes. And as we know, the L.A. Police Department was a very abusive unit for decades. I have a question about David Simon. Didn't we have him on the show? Yes. We had him on the sports fix. Right, because he's the, isn't he the one that went to, he didn't go to Whitman, I would have known that.

He went to Churchill or something like that. He's from Montgomery County, isn't he? Yes, he is. He went to University of Maryland. I don't know where he went to elementary school. High school, I was referring to. High school. Okay, high school.

I don't know. but I know he's a Maryland grad. And look, I'm friends with him, so we got him on the show. Right. I'm sure, I don't remember exactly when it was. He's a huge sports fan. Right, I remember that. I mean, particularly baseball, a huge baseball fan.

So, yeah, we did have as a guest. I do remember that. I just remember part of that being the Maryland connection, but also I think he went to Churchill because I think I remember, you said, well, you went to a high school in Montgomery County, and I said, yeah, I went to Whitman, and he said, yeah, I went to Churchill, your rival high school. Okay. So I think that's where he went.

I'll look it up here. I should have looked it up while you were talking. But he's right about the wire. And here's what's, look, I've always been a big soprano's is the number one show of all time guy and the wire number two. And I'm changing that opinion because it's 20 years since the wire. and people still talk about it. It's still a topic of conversation.

That's remarkable for a program like that. So I think it may be the best show of all time. Is Breaking Bad third for you? Yeah, I would say so. I mean, I know I have to watch The Wire. So thank you for the review and imploring me to watch it. I've been told that many times, including by my middle son, watched it twice and claims it to be the greatest show of all time. And he's watched them all,

you know, all the shows that we like, you know, except for the show that I love. And I would put number two behind Breaking Bad for me, which would be Game of Thrones. And I would have Sopranos probably three. That would be my top three in terms of dramas, in terms of dramas. But I, but I, drama. But my middle son insists that after, when, Whenever this day comes, I binge the wire that the wire will move to number one on my list. He's convinced of that. Well, that's a pretty strong prediction. I think you'll like it.

Well, why would, why do you say it that way? I think you'll like it. Are you trying to undersell it? No, I mean, number one show, like I said, my number one show was the Sopranos for years. Right. And it took me a little while to change that. I mean, number one is exalted, terrible. You don't just give that away so easily.

I don't think there's a day that goes by where Breaking Bad's like on AMC or on something, you know, I'm not going back and watching it on Netflix like I used to because there were times, you know, shortly after I had binged Breaking Bad, I don't know, four years ago now, whenever that was five years ago. There were times where, you know, especially when it was out on Netflix where I would just go and be in a deep, deep state of like four straight hours late at night on a weekend watching, you know, episode after episode because really some of those episodes are so brilliant and they don't lose their appeal. I think we probably would say that about any of our favorite shows.

But the, you said what you said in a way in which like, you'll like it. You've said to me before, I'm an idiot for not having watched it because it would be, you, I would consider it to be all-time great. So I don't know. Well, let me ask you a question. Do you consider yourself besides being a sports commentator, sort of a cultural bellwether? I mean, people look to you for things other than sports.

I wouldn't say a bellwether. I would say, and it's a very subjective thing, I would say certainly in my bubble, anyway. I am a man of extraordinarily relatable tastes on cultural things. I think you are

you could say a cultural influencer. Well, there's people who listen to the show who are not in your bubble. Oh, okay. Who I think you have influence. Right. So I think it's important for you to watch the wire so you can talk about it intelligently. Instead of like a dummy saying, Jesus, I've never seen it before.

Well, you've never seen Game of Thrones, which is, you know, embarrassing. Yeah, but I mean, that's a conscious decision. For somebody who is. I don't have my costume to watch the Game of Thrones. For somebody who is actually a cultural bellwether. And by the way, a national news celebrity from last night. Tommy was on NBC News. We'll get to that in a moment.

But you certainly don't have to play dress-up to watch Game of Thrones. I've told you a million times to show about characters, not a show about fantasy. And you You know, it's funny. You would last, every time I see a clip from it, there's a dragon in it. That's every time. That can't possibly be true.

But, but, you know, leave it to you to exaggerate the truth. You would, and I'm convinced of it, you and Scott, of the two people that are very, you know, near and dear to me in my life are the two friends that have never watched it and you both have the exact same reason. Oh, what am I? Do I need to go dress up like it's Dungeons and Dragons before I watch it? No, you don't. And if you did watch it, just like I totally trust in you when it comes to the wire, if you did one day decide, all right, I'm going to give this a shot. At the end of it, you would apologize to me. And you would say, it was great. Okay, tell me. That's not going to happen. By the way, I just for one more thing. I started watching the old man with Jeff Bridges on FX.

really good. I've heard that's good. I've heard that's good. He's so good in everything. Yeah, he is. And so is John Lithgow. He's good in it, too. I'm gonna, I like John Lithgow. I think he's okay. He's always kind of a weirdo in some of the things he's in. Jeff Bridges, he's good at it, though. He is. He's good at it. He's always been very odd looking to me. His voice is odd. I know he's a great actor. I'm not suggesting that he isn't. Jeff Bridges, though, is just the best. And almost everything he's been in, you know, there's another movie, by the way, when it's on, hard to turn off to Big Lebowski. Of course.

Okay. So why were you on NBC News last night? Okay, it wasn't national news. It was the local broadcast. Oh, Channel 4. NBC, yeah, Channel 4, NBC Washington. You know, I mean, not to piss anybody off, but when we watch local news, Local news, that's our choice for local news, my wife and I, when we sit down and watch.

And we're watching, and I'm kind of half paying attention. And all of a sudden, my wife yells, that's you. And I said, what do you mean? That's me. And she said, that's you on TV right there. And I'm thinking, well, it's obviously somebody who looks at me. But then we ran it back, and I said, oh, my God, that's where I was just a couple of hours ago. That's me.

it was coming out of the Loudoun County Courthouse. There was a hearing of some sorts related to a pretty serious criminal murder case involving a hammer. And I didn't even see the camera. I was walking out of the Loudoun County Courthouse when they were filming, I guess, family members who were going in to the courtroom for the proceeding. And there I was. You sent me the picture. First of all, I'm surprised you were able to rewind it that you've got an actual DVR feature

because for years you didn't and you weren't able to rewind things on your television, so I'm glad you got that new technology for you into the home. You rewinded it. So, again, you were coming out of that, and why were you coming out of that Loudoun County Courthouse? Well, I was there on business. I was there doing reporter stuff.

No, you weren't. Why were you there? Yes, I want. Kevin, I don't make stuff up, contrary to your opinion. I was doing reporters' business. What did you do? That's between me and my reporter's notebook. What did you do?

You were there for something. Did you get, was it some sort of speeding violations, some sort of reckless driving? Look, Kevin. I was there for reporter business. No violation. In Loudoun County. In Loudon County, you were there on reporter business. By the way, dressed, you know, not that you're a great dresser, but you're in sunglasses,

you're in dark shades and a t-shirt walking out of the loud. That's my disguise? That's my co-jack t-shirt, by the way. Oh, it wasn't going in a courtroom. I was doing research at the clerk's office, so I didn't have to particularly dress up for any reason. It's not like I was going in a courtroom. Okay, well, that means it was a sports story. take you at your word and you were there working and you were investigating something in Loudoun

County, which just happens to be the home of the Washington commanders, you were doing something related to something going on with somebody in the Washington football organization. I'll explain to you exactly what it was. It was a fishing expedition, which we undertake from time the time based on instinct, and I didn't catch anything. So it was a waste of time, except for me getting on the news. Well, since you didn't catch anything, can you tell me what you were fishing for? No. Why?

Because I don't want to. Are you continuing to fish for it? Well, you never put it, you know, you never stop fishing. There's always a fish in the pond somewhere. Well, eventually, if you're not catching anything, you move on to something. else. Well, for lesser people maybe, but not for common. Yeah, because you're so persistent. So this instinct that you have, will you at least tell me that it had something to do with the football team, did it? No, I'm not going to tell you anything. Oh, okay. All right. No,

Your Honor, he's badgering the witness. I'm not badgering the witness. You know, and by the way, I did not take, I didn't put you under oath. So I don't know at this point, whether not you were actually there working or if you were actually there fighting some sort of, you know, reckless driving charge or perhaps some sort of harassment issue. If I was there under civil or criminal pretenses, but I wasn't. I know you were. See, here's the thing. You were in Ashburn recently because you went out to the park for the mini camp. So you've now been in Ashburn a couple of couple of times here in the last few weeks.

Well, look, I... Well, I'm just trying to expand my bubble, Kevin. My limited bubble. Let me tell you something. For you, Frederick County to Loudoun County is quite the expansion. It really is. I don't think politically it's much of an expansion. But geographically, yeah, because you certainly didn't take the ferry over there,

did you? No, I didn't. Is there a ferry that goes from Frederick to Virginia? There is, right? No, there's no ferry. There's White's Ferry, which I've never been on. And I think it's closed right now. They had a sign yesterday actually on Route 15 saying closed. But I've never been on that. I've never been on it either, but I've certainly seen it and I've been out to Whites Ferry, which, you know, in Maryland you get there by driving all the way out to the very end of River Road. you know, and it ends in Seneca.

Like River Road ends initially where Bretton Woods Country Club is, which is the World Bank and the IMF golf course and club. That's where everybody that works for the IMF and the World Bank, that's where they belong. And it's all the way out at the end of River Road. It's actually a beautiful property. And you're in Seneca at that point. And then you take a left where River Road continues.

And it ends on. the Maryland side of White's Ferry. So I've been there several times driving out there. It's a pretty drive, and I've seen the ferry itself, but I've never actually been on the ferry. But it takes you... You can play at that golf course? I've played that golf course a couple of times, yes.

You know why? Because it's a golf course that has a lot of charity events. And so a lot of the charity, a lot of the different charity events that I've played in have been played there. And so, yeah, it's pretty out there. I mean, it's way out there. Way out there.

Hey, all right, let's get to some stuff. I wanted to, did you have anything else on your NBC Channel 4 appearance? By the way, we watch Channel 4 a lot too. We watch in, I got nothing else. I don't watch a lot of local news. I really don't. But I do watch when it's on local news in our house, it's usually on Channel 4. Yeah.

You know, it's... Well, that's up. I do watch local news because it's one of the few places where there's actually news stories on television anymore. Right, instead of just opinion. Talking heads, talking the talking heads. Right. So... That's true.

And it's, you know, there's news that you're not going to get on the national stuff because it's all local. All right. So Terry McLaren, who signed a contract extension. And, you know, we've... Actually, you haven't weighed in on it. Do you have any thoughts on the fact that the contract? extension got done. There's no way to paint this other than a huge positive for the organization.

I mean, to lock a guy like that up as important as he is, again, we made it clear both of us saying it would have been absolutely absurd to trade for Carson Wentz and not have Terry McCorn in the fold. But it's an absolute win for Ron Rivera and the football side of the organization. It is, you have to think some kind of confirmation, at least on the football side within the building of the things they're doing there. And they're lucky to get a guy like that. Now, there's part of me that's thinking, oh, Jesus, this guy, this guy's such a nice guy. He has to play the test organization.

He's too nice. But it's a big win for the team. It's still my favorite Tom Leverro line of all time delivered, I think on this podcast, I don't think it was on our radio show. No, it would have been on the podcast. When DJ Swaranger got punished by being released, you said if they really wanted to punish him, they would have made him stay. That's still one of my all-time favorites. You know, they really didn't do a good job of punishing him. If they really wanted to punish DJ Sweringer, they would.

have made him stay. But I should read this email that I read yesterday on the show for Tommy just to get his reaction to it. And I read it yesterday and did something on the radio show and then talked about it on the podcast. But this dude Doug sent this, you know, somewhat condescending email to me that said, Kevin, finally some good news. Do you think we can take a day off from the Dan drivel and celebrate instead?

Scary Terry's in the fold for the next. four years. This is the best moment the organization has had in years. I mean, the best moment was a contract extension in late June that the organization has had in years. You deserve, and we deserve, a break from all of the media negativity. So we don't have it. Yeah, that's the damn media. The damn media. But I mean, the best moment since, in so many ways, and this is not diminishing the fact that they got a deal done, they got a good deal done.

I think it's team friendly. I think it's player friendly. I think it's kind of win-win. J.I. Halsall was on with us yesterday on the podcast. He was great. He said that, you know, Terry kind of won the deal, but it was a good deal for both. That was his opinion as an NFL agent and as a former, you know, team cap, you know, analyst.

But my God, when the best moment for a football organization in years is the signing of a really good player, not a superstar at this point. Again, sorry people, he's really good, but there are really good wide receivers in this league. He's not Devante Adams, okay? He's not DeAndre Hopkins. I've done this list before. We can go on and on. But he's really good. but it's kind of sad when you consider that this is the best moment that people think it's the best moment in years.

Now you see everybody, that's Kevin Sheehan saying that. That's not me. I already did this yesterday. I wasn't afraid to do it. Okay. It's true. I'm not saying you'd be afraid. I just, look, I know it's true, but that sounds like the kind of thing that would be a column of mine.

And I'm just not going to go there on something like this. All right, well, maybe the column idea, that would be a good column, maybe the column idea will come from the letter that Terry wrote. Terry wrote a lengthy letter to everybody, including all of you who are fans of the team. I'll read it to you. Playing in the NFL is a blessing and something I will never take for granted. He tweeted this out, by the way. From the moment I stepped foot on the field as a seven-year-old to now, I continue to respect the game, play it the right way, and leave everything I have on the first. field. I love the grind in the process of getting better. Team accomplishments and goals have always

far exceeded individual ones. From the day I was drafted, I've had the singular goal to win a Super Bowl with this franchise. This is on my mind every day when I walk into the building. While I am both humbled and ecstatic about this contract, it motivates me to work even harder. I understand and embrace the responsibility that comes with signing this extension to whom much is given, much is required. There is no other place I would rather be or fan base I would want to represent. That's the opening paragraph. And then he gets into thanking lots of people. And I'm not going to read through all of it, but he thanks God. He thanks his mom, dad, and sister. He thanks his girlfriend. And then he gets to the team part of it. I want to thank the Snyder family, Dan and Tanya

Snyder, Coach Rivera, the front office, and the whole organization for believing in and trusting me to be an ambassador for this organization. I do not take this responsibility lightly and will continue to strive to be my best each day on and off the field. Thank you to my teammates and coaches, both past and present, and then he goes through high school and Ohio State, etc. And then the final paragraph wraps up. And of course, thank you to our amazing fans.

I cannot thank you enough for all the ways you have supported me since the day I was drafted to Washington. truly one of a kind. Every opportunity to represent you brings me absolute joy. There's a proud history here in Washington from the chance to the hogs, from the chance to the hogs. I do not take any of it for granted. I know together we all can bring the Washington organization back to the upper echelon of football and reestablish a winning culture. That journey begins now. You demand it, You deserve it, and we will do our best to make it happen one day at a time, together through hard work and dedication. Signed, see you in the fall, HTT, C, TTC, gratitude, peace, and love Terry McClorn.

By the way, he's got a picture of himself in this, you know, in this letter that goes out as a piece of artwork tweeted out in his new commander's jersey. So there you go. Okay. Very nice. very nice of him. Very nice. Again, you know, I mean,

there's part of me that feels bad for him because he is such a decent guy, he seems like, and he's very talented. But he said all the right things, and,

and, you know, the, you know, it's funny because there's a generation of Washington football fans that are used to having a whole team of guys like that. Now it's such an exception that you should really embrace it

if you really are a Washington commander's fan. Because the way Terry McCorn does business, that was the way most people did business in the building back in the 80s. I was having a conversation about the Terry McClorn contract extension with a friend of mine on the phone yesterday, and he reminded me of something that I, you know, I know, but I don't mention enough. And he said, you know, you're really kind of hell-bent on Ron Rivera being so culture reform, you know, obsessed and how you think he's a decent guy and a decent coach.

And he's doing, you know, he's the football operations of a better operation than it was, even though the organization's still a train wreck. he said but the two you know players that represent that culture change more than any other players on the team like the ambassadors as Terry McClearn called himself were not selected by Ron Rivera no they weren't they were they were drafted right they're Bruce Allen picks well Terry McLorn was yeah I would I would give Kyle Smith perhaps the credit for Terry McClorn I think I think he really was very much involved in handling the draft at that point. But John Allen was a, you know, that was the beginning of we are Alabama focused and we need defensive linemen. But anyway, hopefully they have a lot more of those. But that was a very nice note. And Terry, you know, you're here for, you know, at least four years. And bottom line is let's hope that the signing of the contract extension wasn't the

best moment of the upcoming four years. Because if that's the case, yeah, it didn't really work out. Maybe not because of him and probably it would have nothing to do with him. But let's hope like next year or in two years, we can say that something is the best moment and it's since and we're not talking about like a contract extension or a draft pick. That it's something that actually happens on the field. Okay. We've got a couple of other things to get to. And one of them, yeah, it's going the other way on the commanders. Something that was written out of Philadelphia that we will share with you right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Looking for your football sportsbook for the fall, consider my bookie. MyBooky.com, mybooky.orgie.org. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. Very few of these places are going to double your initial. deposit. They're just going to double it. You know, you deposit 500 bucks. You'll have a thousand in your account to play with. They do that all the way up to a thousand dollars. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. That's Kevin D.C. at MyBooky, mybooky.com and my bookie.ag. I wanted before we get to something, you know, critical of the Washington football team,

the Washington commanders, I wanted to mention something that Aaron, the producer of this podcast, sent to me late yesterday. It was a tweet from Ben Fox. Ben works for Veezen, the Brent Musburger gambling network that Aaron works for. You know, Aaron hosts, Aaron produces, excuse me, this podcast, but also produces the show that our good friend Tim Murray and the former NFL quarterback of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Sean King, hosts together on the Vizan Network. They all live out in Vegas. They do the show from the Circo, which apparently is incredible, Tommy, is a sports book. That might be worth a trip at some point soon. But Ben works for Veezen. And Ben tweeted out yesterday that the Washington commanders right now at Caesar's sports book in terms of overbets

on win totals. So win totals, again, let me just explain for everybody. Every single team in the NFL, there's a prop bet on the total number of wins. They will. have in 2022. The total number of wins for Washington projected per Caesar sports book is seven and a half. And the wager is made on either over seven and a half or under seven and a half. So if you bet over and they win more than seven and a half games, meaning eight or more, you win the bet. And if they win less than seven and a half or seven or less, you lose the bet if you bet the over. That's how over-under-underbush. bets work on season totals. Well, Ben tweeted out that the most lopsided overall win total bet on the over at Caesar's sportsbook is the Washington Commanders over seven and a half.

99% of the money so far on Washington's season total is on the over seven and a half. What does that mean? So what does that tell you? Well, what does it tell you? There are two things it tells me. One, that like last year, a lot of betters, a lot of football fans and pundits, like Washington. Like they think they look at that number and they think it's low. Washington's going to win eight or more games.

You know, Washington's going to be a playoff contender in the NFC. Remember last year, there was a lot of optimism about how great they were going to be defensive. and how now they got a quarterback in Ryan Fitzpatrick coming off the two best years of his career. I mean, guys like Mike Greenberg were picking them to be the best defensive team in football and a Super Bowl contender. And so I think what's interesting about this, Tommy, is that when the season ended, I would have never expected there to be any optimism about the team. But I think trading for Carson Wentz, you know, knowing that the defense is going to return. a guy like Chase Young, hopefully, you know, sooner rather than later,

and that it was an off year, but people still believe in their defensive front. They're in the NFC East, you know. Some people think the worst division in football. So they also have a schedule that people are kind of, you know, mocking a little bit is, you know, pretty easy. That's a big one. I think that's a big reason for some of this. But 99% of the money is on the over. Now, so it tells me that your normal average NFL Joe and normal NFL pundit likes Washington to be better than maybe the odds makers think.

What it also tells me is that if Caesars is just sticking there at seven and a half is the number and they haven't upped it to eight or eight and a half to try to incent some underaction, is they're not really concerned about taking all of the over money right? now on Washington. Now that might change as you get closer to the season. I had seen some eights and even an eight and a half out there for Washington on a season total. But I don't know what the price is on the overbat. I'm assuming that you're laying some money on that, probably minus 150 or 160 or something like that. But it tells me that the odds makers, the people that I always tell you know more than we know, they're not overly concerned, at least at Caesars, that everybody in their mother is betting the over on Washington right now.

So those are the two things that it tells me. You'd have to include me among those who would pick the over. Me too. Yeah. I feel the same way. I mean that doesn't mean they're going to have a good season. That just means, look, if you pick the under, That's a disaster season.

Oh, seven may me not be. No. If you get the six wins, that's a disaster of a season. Given what they've done publicly with their expectations and even with their actions, this is kind of an all-in for 2022 year. We've talked about this before. Seven wins would be a disaster. But there's context to it.

Like seven wins with Wentz not playing well and Dotson not playing well. and Jamin Davis making no progress and Chase Young having another bad season after he comes back, that would be disastrous. Disastrous. I like the over too. I've been saying this for a while. I think that they are going to be a competitive team

and more competitive than the odds makers. But you know me. I mean, if everybody's betting the over, it's going to be hard for me to jump on board with everybody else. I was really, really sharp last year with my preseason prop bets. I think I had five total preseason prop bets. Four of them were on NFC East totals. I had the Eagles over winner.

I had the Cowboys over winner. I had Washington under winner, but I had the Giants over as well. So I lost that one, but I went three and one on the totals last year for the NFC East teams. Right now, I like Washington over. I do. others of me that everybody else likes it. I wish that I were out there by myself, but I'm not going to be. But I do think that they have a chance, especially with their offense, to win eight or more games and be a competitive, be, you know, be one of those teams

that's in the mix for the playoffs. Now, I think they do too. I don't know about in the mix for the playoffs. I think they're going to be a long way from being in the mix in the playoffs come the last two weeks of the season. But I think they're going to win more than seven and a half game. I think they could win nine games. Well, nine games is in contention for the playoffs and maybe in the playoffs. I mean, Nate got Philly in last year. That's true.

So thefillyvoice.com, just tell me that this is credible, right? Very credible. It's a good website. The Philly Voice were the ones. that first broke the Carson Wentz locker room unrest in the Eagle story. They were the first one to write this about three or four years ago. So they've been on top that Carson Wentz story over anybody else in Philly. So it's a credible website.

So they wrote a story yesterday. 10 reasons the commanders will be a dumpster fire this season. I think they've done the same thing. I was going to wait until the end to say that. All right. Oh, okay. I mean, I'm trying to be fair here. I know.

I wasn't going to exclude that information. They wrote, okay, fine. They wrote for all four NFC East teams, 10 reasons that the Cowboys will be a dumpster fire this season, 10 reasons the Giants will be a dumpster fire this season, 10 reasons the Eagles will be a dumpster fire this season. But we will focus on the team here, and there are 10 reasons the commanders will be a dumpster fire this season.

Now, this is a long story. I can't read through the whole thing. It would take a while. But the number one reason is really the reason for having this discussion. The number one reason that the commanders will be a dumpster fire in 2022, according to the Philly Voice.com, is Carson Wentz is mentally soft. Now, let's keep in mind, the Philly Voice would have some insight as to Carson Wentz's mental strength.

And they write Carson Wentz's mentally soft is the number one reason Washington will be a dump fire next year. And I'll read through some of it because it's long. Wence was the best player in the NFL in 2017 leading the Eagles to an 11 and 2 record before he tore his ACL and LCL, making way for Nick Foles to win the Eagles first ever Super Bowl. Wence was not ready for the start of the 2018 season after spending all offseason rehabbing his knee. So they go through that. The Eagles won an absolutely dreadful NFC East in 2019, but in the first round of the playoffs, he was concussed on a first quarter cheap shot by Jadavie and Clownie in a game against Seattle and had to give way to Josh McCown to finish the game. The nine snaps, Wentz played in that game,

remain his only NFL playoff experience. That is interesting, right? Philadelphia has been in the mix here on and off for the last several years with Wentz being a part of it. They obviously won the Super Bowl with Nick Foles after he got hurt, but they were 11 and 2 because of Carson Wentz, a lot because of Carson Wentz. And then they went back to the playoffs the next year, and he wasn't, you know, he was hurt for that one when they lost to the Saints in the second round with Foles after beating Chicago. And then he finally played in a playoff game in a wildcard round the game against Seattle. Nine snaps into it got concussed.

So that's it. In 2020, Wence had a disastrous season going 3-7 and 1 before being pulled during a game against the Packers in favor of Hertz, Jalen Hertz, who provided a spark, yada, yada, yada. In 2020, they write, in 12 games that Wentz played in, he was arguably the worst starter in the NFL. and then they list all of the numbers. They said in 2020, he nearly achieved what they called the triple frown for most interceptions, fumbles, and sacks, despite being benched for the entire final quarter of the season.

Yeah, he was in interceptions. He had the most in the NFL, second most fumbles in the NFL, and the most sacks taken in the NFL that year 50. Their offensive line was a mess in 20. and they had no receivers, to be fair to him. But in three quarters of a season, he led the NFL in interception, sacks taken, and was second in fumbles.

So they go on and on about the 2021 season and the fact that the Eagles had selected Jalen Hertz, he was angry about that. Wentz no longer wanted to play in Philadelphia. Wentz himself even said that he began thinking of getting out of Philadelphia while standing on the sidelines in Green Bay after he was benched. At no time did he ever take any real accountability for his own poor play. And his immediate reaction being pulled from a game was to quit on his team.

By obliging Wentz's trade request to the Colts, the Eagles, and remember this people, because this was unprecedented. The Eagles took on the largest dead cap hit in NFL history by miles. It wasn't even close to get rid of Wentz to trade. him to Indianapolis. They ate $34 million in a cap hit on last year's 2021 salary cap hit. Wence landed in Indianapolis, couldn't have handpicked a better situation as the Colts had a good offensive line, the best running back in the league, a modest upgrade in wide receiver talent, et cetera, and he had Frank Reich there. Wentz said that the culture and values fit his vibes, and yet he still failed.

On paper it looked like he had a decent enough season, but those moments of encouragement were overshadowed by his continued inability to make the layup throws in his penchant for playing hero ball to his team's detriment. Hero ball to his team's detriment, you say, what does that mean? And then he shows the play against the Tennessee Titans where it was the end of the game with two minutes to go and he threw an underhanded left-handed throw that got picked for a touchdown. So they go on and on on Wentz. I mean, talking about the whole Jacksonville game and, you know, this idea that Ursa was the only one out, yet Chris Ballard, the GM, couldn't muster one kind word at the end of the season when he was asked a bevy of questions about Wentz. That's true, by the way. A lot of people have just put the Indianapolis thing solely on the owner who wanted him out.

because maybe he wasn't vaccinated or he wasn't much of a leader. But Chris Ballard publicly was submarining him from the day the season ended. Frank Reich apologized to the fan base. I'm not saying that Ursa maybe wasn't the biggest influencer of this and that Ballard and Reich fell into line. But you know, you can get rid of him because the owner's telling you to get rid of him and not say the things that they said publicly about him. It felt like Wentz was destined to be outright released by the Colts,

but the stupid idiot commanders swooped in and coughed up the following package of draft picks for him. A third, and we know what it was. The 2022 third, the 2023 third that can become a second, you know, the swapping of the seconds this year, et cetera. The commanders also took on Wentz's salary in full, LOL. It's written. And that was the biggest problem I had. You know, moments after the trade and on this show, what I said is for a player who was about to be released,

you're eating all of the salary? Did you even ask them to take back most of the salary so you could have more cap space? Like, that just seemed like you're getting a bad deal, but we're going to throw salt on the wound of this bad deal and make you eat the whole contract. But I don't think they needed to do it. And the Philly Voice writes, you know, the commanders took on Wence's salary. full LOL as well. The funny thing is that the commanders know Wents' is soft, they write, or Ron Rivera wouldn't have felt the need to assuage his feelings by assuring him that Sam Howell, a player they

drafted in the fifth round, was just a developmental guy. Remember, Rivera said that he talked to Wence before drafting Sam Howell. Yeah. To explain to him that they were picking a developmental rookie. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, it was clear from that. He was going out of his way to hold his hand. Yeah. Which, you know, again, after trading for this guy and saying that you've got your guy, even though your actions don't say that you believe that you have your guy, because you've got an easy out at the end of this year if it doesn't work and you didn't restructure it to create more opportunity for yourself in the offseason. That aside, you know, now that they have them, you do. what you can to make them comfortable. So I'm not totally against it,

but I think the need to do it is, you know, potentially telling. We'll see. So, you know, they go... Here's what happens. What would be a normal act, a coach might, you know, stay a normal act. Like, telling

his quarterback, hey, we're going to draft this guy, just so you know, you know? That seems to be a normal act of a coach to do who wants to have a good relationship with his quarterback. it gets magnified and put in a totally different perspective because of Carson Wentz.

It did, I guess. Not every team does that. The Packers didn't do that when they drafted Jordan Love with Aaron Rogers. And I think it's good business to do it. I don't think it's handholding that's under normal circumstances. I agree with that. I mean, just like, look, before we knew what we knew about Deshawn Watson, and we were talking about him wanting to get traded from Houston before all of what's out there now is out there. I criticized Houston for not going to him, the guy that they had just given this massive all-time contract to, who was clearly at the time we thought going to be the quarterback for them forever, and not just say, hey, you know, cluing him in on some of the things they were thinking about doing in free agency or the draft. I don't have a problem with that anymore.

I'm not saying that guys like Belichick have to do it after they've already earned their stripes. But I think in certain situations, you know, like many of you out there who have certain jobs, whether it's, you know, managing, you know, majorly important people in your organization or you're the important person in the organization, but you're not the ultimate decision maker. Sometimes you're consulted on those things. Sometimes you feel like you should consult somebody who's really... important to it. There's a big difference between bringing somebody in to let them know what your decision is

and then asking somebody if they're okay with the decision. They're talking about two different things. Yes. Yes. So there were 10 other reasons, by the way. But that was the one that was written a lot about because the Philly Voice really does know, you know, they know Carson Wentz. Number two, by the way, was Jack, and actually Jack is spelled JAQ, as in Q&O. Jack Del Rio's players probably don't respect him, you know, and they go through the whole thing.

I don't know that that's true at all. And in fact, my guess would be that that's not true. The third reason is Chase Young may not be ready for the start of the season. That's true. Number four is the linebacker stink. That's true right now, as far as we know. The fifth reason the wide receiver situation is dicey as always. Actually, it's not that dicey.

I guess we don't know for sure, but it is definitely... It's not certain. Yeah, but it could ultimately be because if you like the players, because I like the players, it could actually end up being by week four or week five, the strength of the football team. We could easily say the wide receiver core is the best position group. on this team. We could say that a few weeks into the season. Number six is Logan Thomas may not be ready to start the season. I think that's going to hurt too. I think they really need him. Seven,

they got worse along the interior of their offensive line. Yeah, they cut Eric Flowers and Brandon Sheriff, you know, was an unrestricted free agent signed in Jacksonville. And you've got Norwell and Trey Turner and West Schweitzer there. So they also have maybe their best position coach is their offensive line coach, John Matzkel. Number eight is, Scott Turner hasn't shown much as an offensive coordinator. And then they list like, you know, the places in which his offenses, offenses have been ranked in DVOA. Hello, do you know who his quarterbacks have been?

You know, stop. I mean, I think Scott Turner, I'm actually confident in Scott Turner. This is a big year for him because he's got an NFL quarterback with an NFL arm and they've given him a lot of weapons. So this is kind of a big, you know, improve it situation for him. But I'm optimistic that Scott Turner is going to be a guy that by the end of the year, we're all like, man, he did a really good job when he finally got talent.

Because I think in some ways, they overachieved with what they've had. I mean, the last, I thought there were several games last year that he called that were pretty good. Their cornerback depth and safeties aren't great. That's probably true. And then the 10th reason that Washington will be a dumpster fire this coming season, they write, I mean, Dan Snyder is such a piece of, you know what, with a you know what emoji right there. Well, yeah, ultimately, that really should be number one on the list every year. Because if you don't have Aaron Rogers or Patrick Mahomes or an elite quarterback, then go to the top and see what you have there because it usually seeps down.

But to Tommy's point, they wrote this kind of story for all four NFC, see East teams. The 10 reasons, you know, the Eagles, Cowboys, commanders, and Giants will be a dumpster fire this season. I don't think they're going to be a dumpster fire this season. I don't. If they are... I don't think they are. Oh, no, I can't say that. I think they are going to be a dumpster fire, but I think they'll be competitive. I ask this question... I think they're going to be both. Well, what? The Snyder is going to continue to be a dumpster fire, but they're going to be a competitive team on the field this year? I think the quarterback position is going to be a dumpster fire for them.

If the quarterback situation is a dumpster fire, the team's going to be a dumpster fire. Well, they won seven games with the other guy last year against a tougher schedule. They did. I know. You know, why would you think it would be worse against it with an easier schedule? Well, dumpster fire may be the wrong way to describe it. I just don't think it's going to be a great, it won't be a playoff season if he's the starting quarterback for the majority of games. It won't.

I didn't even say, I don't even, I'm not saying majority games. I'm just saying at some point, this team will be a dumpster fire and it will be because of the quarterback position. Right. You've already, you know, you've already started the whole, there could be quarterback controversy because Taylor is well liked. and Carson Wentz, you know, has, is on a short leash. Well, that's not an unreasonable position. The unreasonable part of that is the leash isn't short. Injury is the only way.

Or they're 0 and 6. Or 1 in 10. And then we'll see them. That would be a dumpster fire. By the way, I asked the question the other day on radio, and I think it was yesterday, so it would have been after we did the podcast on Tuesday. I don't think we did this together in two.

Tuesday. Who has the most pressure on them this year in the football part of the organization? And to me, there's a number one, and it's an easy number one, even though when I took calls, people were listing a lot of different players and or coaches. But if I were to ask you, who in their football operation has the most pressure on them entering this season? Who would it be? Ron Rivera. Yes, that's the answer. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how anybody else.

Ron Rivera is not just the football coach. He's the football kingpin. He makes every decision. So all the players that have been selected, all of this is on him in a coach-centric system. I don't care if it's a consensus build or he relies on Herney and Mayhew and some of the others to pick the players.

The buck stops with him. by the way, he's made that very clear. And he's made it very clear that this is going to be year one, which is year three of a five-year deal, but it's going to be the first year of, you know, a momentum-building thing. Like this is the first year of a run that, you know, he's got in his mind, they're about to go on a five-year run of being in the playoffs every year, of winning divisions and maybe having, you know, a 15-1 or 15-and-2 season and making the Super Bowl. That's why the pressure's on him. It didn't have to be. At the end of the season last year,

there was no expectations about 2022. None. And even if they had pulled off the trade with Carson Wentz and drafted another receiver and, you know, whatever, if they hadn't been out there publicly saying, this is a big year, this is year three, we got to do it, we expect to do it. Yeah.

But the pressure's on him. Now, for me, I don't know if you feel this way, for me, the pressure on him doesn't mean that he loses his job if he doesn't deliver. But it will be painful for him in terms of the criticism and the beatdown he will take from the fan base and from the media if this team shits the bed this year. It will not cost him his job, but it will cost him power. He will be empowered if they have a good season, a competitive season. It will add to his power base in the building. If they ship the bed, he will lose power. And how does that manifest itself?

Well, I can't explain how it's going to manifest itself in the little nuances about how the team is run. In the absences of the owner becoming less frequent. He will lose power. So you don't think, by the way, we both agree that he won't get fired, but I actually believe that there's a possibility that if it really goes the wrong way, and all of the other shit continues, which of course it will, with as long as Dan owns the team, that there's a chance that he might himself say enough is enough. Like, I think that's definitely in play if they go four and 13.

That's a lot of money to walk away from, Kevin. Yeah, well. Coaches don't do that usually. Yeah, but the honeymoon period is in the rearview mirror, and it's hard to see even, you know, as hard as you look, there's no light when you're looking for it. Because people will be all over him, and they'll be wondering what you've wondered.

Remember what Mrs. Zorn told Jim Zorn. You ain't going anywhere. But he had never made any money. Right. Well, again, Rod. has not made the kind of money that you can walk away from $10 million. I'm assuming, or $12 million, or $15 million, whatever the remaining figure would be. It would probably be every bit of $16 million.

It's at least $80 a year, I think. Okay. Okay. That's never actually been out there. But when you said he would lose power, I thought you might say, like, they would, he would be then just the football coach and not the football coach slash whatever. Does he have another title? I don't even think he has another title. Whatever.

Ron Rivera's got the most pressure on him. Followed by Carson Wentz to a certain degree, followed by, and this is how he got into this conversation the other day, Chase Young. Chase Young's got some pressure on him next year. He does. And it may be unfair because he's coming off the injury and he hasn't had an offseason and he may not have a training camp.

And the first time we see him on the field might be in a real game in week four. But when he comes back onto the field, there's some pressure on him to start to flash like the way he flashed as a rookie. Because there will be some serious questions if he says, let's just say, plays 12, 13, 14 games and ends up with four or five sacks. And we hear from coaches that, you know, we need to adhere to the scheme again. By the way? You're right. I think your top three is right. Spot on.

I think that just like I'm optimistic that they can be a better than, you know, an eight-winner better team, and I'm optimistic about the offense or certainly intrigued by it. I'm also optimistic that Chase Young is going to bounce back with a big year. I'm just saying the pressure is on him to have that big year. All right, we're going to finish up with something. Yeah, go ahead. What? Well, I'm just going to say, I think the, I don't know, my impression is that the argument about

Chase Young has not been about his talent or ability. I mean, I think a lot of people came to a conclusion, at least I did, that his stardom from the rookie season helped get in the way of season two. Okay, and he may be, he may not be a coachable player. We don't know that. But if he fails, I don't think it's going to be because he's not talented. Yeah, I agree with that. I do.

I want to see signs that the talent, which I know he has, also comes with his ability to create a little bit more of a variety of moves, of past rushing moves. Because he relies very much just on that athleticism and his speed. And we don't know what it'll look like after this injury and the recovery of the injury. What if he loses, you know, a half a step? Then, you know, you're talking about a guy that's still going to be, you know, well ahead of most athletically, but he's going to probably have to rely on really learning how to play the position. And I think he's got some good coaches in the building for that. Certainly the head coach and the defensive coordinator are guys that.

should be pretty good at being able to help them with that. All right, we're going to finish up with something that I sent you right before the show. It's an NFL conversation. We'll get to it right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Nat's had a chance to sweep the pirates yesterday afternoon, and they didn't. They lost the game 8 to 7, and there was a very controversial play in the fifth inning, which I just talked to Tommy about, and he said it bores him to tears, tells me he doesn't really understand what happened. I do understand what happened, and it was very

unique. I understand what happened. It was a time play at third base. It wasn't a force play at third base. Yes. I get it. Well, yes. Don't tell me I don't understand it. Well, the way you said it. You know, I'm going to get off this phone right now if you don't take that back. No, I'm not going to take it back because I'm going to ask you this. Because I do understand it. Okay. Tell me what happened. Okay, on that, I'm not going to describe the whole play. Why not? But the particular play in question, because I didn't watch the game.

Oh, well, but you, I didn't watch it either. I just, I spent a lot of time researching it and talking to various people. You said three hours on your radio show today. I imagine that you had some time to talk about this. I did. You got paid to talk about this morning. I'm paying you right now to talk about this. This is what I want to talk about for just, for just.

And I'm talking about it. So I had Zuckerman on, and, you know, the crew chief said, and the forever, multiple decades of being involved in baseball, you'd never seen this before. Never. I think the reason I asked you to describe it in detail is that a lot of people don't know what we're talking about. But go ahead. Well, why should I do your heavy lifting?

You describe it. Okay, I will. With one out in the fifth inning, the Pirates at bat, by the way, The score tied at three. I can't believe we're talking about this. The score tied at three in a game that eventually the Pirates would win 8 to 7 to avoid what would have been the Natt's first series sweep of the year. Runners were on second and third with one out.

There was a line drive to Josh Bell at first base. It looked like a ball that was going to hit the ground, be in play, but Bell scooped it up and made the catch. But the runners on second and third were already. running. So Bell threw to third. And instead of the third baseman touching the bag because the runner on third didn't tag up, he went and tagged out the runner who was coming from second to third. So the second out was the catch by Bell. The third out was the tag of the runner running from second to third. The Nats basically, they called both outs. The Nats went into the dugout. And we

thought that was the end, except that it wasn't. And the reason that it wasn't is because the runner running from third to home scored before, in a timing play, before the third basement of the Nats tagged out the runner running from second to third. So the umpires said, actually, that run counted. The pirates are up four to three, even though that was the inning ending. out. Now, in a tagout situation, or I'm sorry, in a force situation, like a double play with a runner on third, even if the runner on third scores, it doesn't matter with forces that run doesn't

count. But in a non-forced situation, and this runner on second was not forced to run to third, then it becomes a timing issue. Did the run score before the runner was tagged or not? Now, the problem with this is, is the runner on third never tagged up. So why would that run count. The reason the run counts, Tommy, and this was something I learned this morning, is because when a runner, let's just take a normal sack fly to left field with a runner on third. If the runner leaves before the catch and scores, the umpire does not have the ability to call that runner out for leaving early. The runner's only out when the team essentially appeals, by throwing the ball to third base

and the third baseman putting his foot on the bag and then the umpire can call the player out. But if the runner doesn't tag up and they don't throw to third base to actually tag the bag which the runner didn't tag up in time, then the run counts or the runner advancing counts. The umpire can't call that runner out. That was something I never knew until this morning.

I just thought the umpire, if a runner leaves early and doesn't tag up appropriately, can call the runner out. It's not the way it works, even on a normal sack fly. You're kind of into this now, aren't you? So what happened was where they screwed up is that the umpiring crew immediately called the third out and called no run. So the Nats came in from the infield because it was their turn. at bat. If they hadn't called the third out or there was an indication that the run was going to

score, well, then the Nats would have stayed on the field and thrown it back to the third baseman and had him touch the third base bag and then the runner that scored would have been out. I think I explained that pretty well. Are you awake? Are you away? Are you done? Are you done? Have you cleaned, have you cleaned yourself up? Are you Okay. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. I didn't need to clean myself up. I enjoy that stuff, not to the extent that which you just disgustingly described, but I enjoy that kind of stuff. It was something new, and I learned something. Okay. I guess it doesn't see, when you've got all the answers, this stuff is boring, so I understand. Do you have anything else on this? I'm assuming not.

No. You assume correctly, Kim Mokab. Do you think Josh Bell's an All-Star? He may be their All-Star. He's having a hell of a year. Yeah, he may be their All-Star, you know, but I don't know if he's an All-Star, but you've got to pick somebody. All right, let's finish up the show with this. So Fandul put out this list, and I sent it to Tommy earlier.

They put out this list on Twitter, Fandul did. each NFL team's greatest of all time, each NFL team's goat. And they go down the list of all 32 teams, and they list a player that says that that player is the greatest in franchise history. We'll get to Washington. They're listed last. But I'm going to go through each one of these and just immediately, I want your immediate reaction as to whether or not they might have gotten this right or immediately you know it's wrong.

The Cardinals, Larry Fitzgerald. Greatest of all time in the history of the Cardinals franchise. Right. I have no problem with that either. The Falcons, Julio Jones. Tommy Novus. Dion Sanders. It's not Julio Jones.

The Ravens, Ray Lewis. Right. That's fine with me. Personally, I think Ed Reed is, but that's fine with me. The Bills, Bruce Smith. Right. O.J. Simpson. That's a good one. You're right.

Don't you? I mean, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw that. No, you're right. Okay. You're absolutely right. O.J. Simpson. The Panthers, Steve Smith, Sr. You're not. You don't have an opinion on that. The first thing I said was Luke Keekeley. Luke Keekeley is going to be a Hall of Famer.

Julius Pepper's also came to mind. So is Steve Smith. No, Steve Smith. Is he? Yeah. Really? Steve Smith, Sr. is a Hall of Famer? I think so. You think he's going to be a Hall of Fame?

You know what? I haven't given it that much thought, but my first impression is that Steve Smith Sr. is not a Hall of Famer. I think he was a great player. But you might be right on that. Next up, where is it? Where's my list? Next up, Chicago, Walter Payton.

Man, there's some franchises where it's really hard. Walter Payton. Yes. Well, it's a little bit hard. That's a little bit hard. It's Walter Payton, but that's the Dick Bucket's franchise. I understand that. I mean, it's hard, but Walter Payton being listed there, it's not like obviously I'm saying,

no, no, no, that's wrong. Right. With Bruce Smith, I said, no, that's wrong. It's O.J. Simpson. With Julio Jones, I immediately said when I saw it, no, that's wrong. It's probably Dion Sanders. The Bengals, Anthony Munoz, that seems fine to me. The Browns, obviously, Jim Brown.

The Cowboys. Emmett Smith. Wow. I immediately said no. It's Roger Stauback. I would say Emmett Smith. I think it's Roger Staubach. I think you can make a case for Bob Lilly. I think you can make a case for Randy White. I think you can make a case clearly for Aikman. And Emmett Smith is in the conversation. Isn't Emmett Smith the all-time? Larry Allen, yes, he is. Yes, he is. Yes. He is. Larry Allen is probably one of the

greatest offensive linemen in NFL history. Oh, we could go through a hundred guys like that. I just, for me, for me, like on the Mount Rushmore of Cowboys' players, Emmett Smith is on it. I'm not saying he's not on it, but Roger Staubach's the first face that gets chiseled out. Denver, John Elway, easy, right? Yes.

Detroit, Barry Sanders, easy, right? Easy, yes. Green Bay, Aaron Rogers. I would think Bart Starr and his five NFL championships would trump Aaron Rogers. I think the only, I mean, I thought of Brett Fav and Reggie White and then all of the great Packers, but I think they got it right. I think Aaron Rogers is the greatest player in the history of that franchise. In terms of just individual player?

I think it's Bartz. The Houston Texans. But it's not terms of individual player. What have they accomplished for that franchise? That's what makes them great. greatest of all time. It's probably a combination of all of those things. Houston Texans, J.J. Watt.

I have no problem with that. The Colts. Peyton Manning. You know, I laugh, but it's a bit of a conundrum. I mean, I'm going to go with Johnny United because I think Johnny United is still one of the top three or four quarterbacks of all time.

But if you're going to argue, Peyton Manning. I'm not going to tell you you're an idiot. Of course not. You can't. I mean, it's fine that Peyton Manning's there. And I think actually I would go with Peyton Manning over Unitis. Jacksonville, Fred Taylor. Okay. Although I think Mark

Brunel could probably be in that conversation. The Chiefs, Tony Gonzalez, no. No. Who comes to mind for you? Well, I mean, you have done this

to me, and it's not that I didn't know this necessarily, but when you wrote that column, I don't know, two years ago, about the Super Bowl. About the, the Hank, and the nine, it was nine, right? Didn't they have like nine Hall of Famers? They had six Hall of Famers on their defense. On defense, six, yeah. Yeah.

And so Buck Buchanan, Willie Lanier, like those guys would come to mine first. I mean, even a guy like Derek Thomas, who was so great. I mean, Gonzalez is in the conversation of the greatest tight ends of all time. We talked about that last week, but that's not the name that would come to my mind. It just wouldn't. For me, it would be Bobby, for me it would be Bobby Bell, a linebacker for those great teams,

who was defensive player of the year in 69, multiple all pros. And again, anecdotally, from players who played with Bobby Bell, they speak his name in reverential tones or played against him. Um, yes, that's true. Gonzalez, you know, I thought of like, I just thought of those chief, those great chiefs teams of the 70s with, you know, even on offense with Len Dawson and Otis Taylor, the guy that Jack Tolrio beat up. Jackalrio beat up. Um, all right, Raiders, Marcus Allen. I, the first, first guy I thought of was Stabler.

I, I'm, you know me. I'm one of the biggest snake fans of all time. I think Stabler is just, so, so underrated in the greatest quarterback conversation and always has been. And I'll take Stabler and his, you know, in what they accomplished with him over Marcus Allen. There's probably- I'll take Marcus Allen. The Chargers, Ladanian Tomlinson. He's a Hall of Famer.

But Kellyn Winslow, for me, is the greatest charger of all time. I'll go with Tomlinson. I mean, you know, on that list, you know, you have Dan Fouts, you have... Junior Seale. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of great players. Philip Rivers. Tomlinson, I'm fine with that. Philip Rivers has to be in that conversation.

Charlie Joyner probably is in that conversation. They've had a lot of great players. I don't think it's... I don't have a problem with it being LT. The Rams, Aaron Donald. You know, if you think he's one of the greatest defensive tackle, of all time. I think you have to put them on in that spot.

What about any of the players from way back in the day? I mean, you know, Roman Gabriel's not going to be on that list, but what about the fearsome force? What about Deacon Jones, Rosie Greer? Deacon Jones could be on that list as well. But, I mean, the conversation

about Aaron Donald, and I don't think it's unfair, that he's one or two or three top defensive tackles in the history of the game. Yeah. And, you know, I don't I don't think that's a recency bias thing either. I think he's been that great and that dominant. Dolphins, Dan Marino.

100% right. That's absolutely right. The Vikings, Randy Moss. I thought Tarkington first. Yes, Tarkinson, absolutely. Grant Tarkenton is the guy who deserves this. But Randy Moss, Tommy, a lot of people think after Jerry Ross, that Jerry Rice, it's Randy Moss.

But he quit on his teammates in Minnesota. How would you put him on this list when he quit on his teammate? I would put Tarkington at the top of that list. Yeah, absolutely. I would put Tarkington there. I mean, I would consider, you know, I would consider Paige and Eller. I would consider Foreman. You know, Brady.

And Frank Tarkington was the MVP in the league in 1975. And for years held the all-time touchdown passing. record. He did. He did. It was, I think, was it Marino passed him, right? I think it was a Marino. I think that's him. Brady for the Patriots, that's easy. Breeze for the Saints, I think that's easy. I mean, the Giants have had a lot of great players, but of course I have no problem with Lawrence Taylor being, you know, Mr. All-Time, greatest of all-time giant. You don't have a problem with that.

No, I'm fine with Lawrence Taylor as well. Joe Willie Namath as the Jets greatest of all time. Reggie White as the Eagles greatest of all time. I'm going to go with Chuck Bernard and Eric. The last two-way player. I would put a lot of players before I put Reggie White.

And for one thing, I mean, people forget sometimes he played for the Eagles because he won his Super Bowl with the Packers. Yes. And he might, you know,

argue we'd be in that conversation as well. But Philly Chuck Benarck Steve Owens Not Steve Owens I forget the running back

That they Steve Van Buren When they won two NFL titles In 48 and 49 Was A big part of that There's more on that list Before

Chuck Magnaric Was a two-time NFL champion Ten times first team all pro Okay And he was a two-way player I don't have a problem with Reggie White, but I don't think that would have been the first name that would have popped into my mind. And I'm going to tell you the first name that would pop into my mind and you're going to

laugh. But I think it's one of these interesting conversations that Philadelphia fans, Eagle fans that I know well always have when they talk about their greatest quarterbacks. You know, McNabb isn't nearly as beloved as Jaworsky or Randall Cunningham. Randall Cunningham was for the time, one of the real transformational players of that time. It's probably not true that he's their greatest player of all time, but I think Philadelphia fans would have him. The player that I thought I had forgotten about, Brian Dawkins might be the greatest pound-for-pound player in the history of the Eagles franchise.

Harold Carmichael is in all-time great for Philadelphia. But Cunningham, I think it's always interesting to listen to Philadelphia fans debate quarterbacks because they've never had like one of the great quarterbacks in the game necessarily, but McNabb and Cunningham are the two that are close. Like McNabb, you know, McNabb won a lot of games as the Eagles starting quarterback, but wasn't necessarily beloved. Randall, I think there's a place in a lot of Eagles fans' hearts for Randall Cunningham and how exciting he was.

As with, you know, because with that buddy, with those Buddy Ryan teams, they were back in the mix. They were relevant in the NFL, even though they never got to a Super Bowl. Look, as a Giants fan from those days, the player I feared the most was Randall Cunningham. Yeah, no doubt. Felt the same way. All right. How about the greatest stealer of all time?

Fandual says mean Joe Green. I mean, the list. Let's just say it's got to be somebody from the team that won fours. Yeah, so. Okay. Yeah, you could go Bradshaw, you could go Swan, you could go Stalworth, you could go Franco, you could go then all the defensive players, blunt, dungee, ham, Lambert, Green, you know.

I think Green is in the top conversation among defensive tackles of all time. I'm okay with this. Lambert, I think, is in the conversation with that, but I'm okay with it being, with it being Mean Joe Green. All right. So then we're nearing Washington. is Jerry Rice. I mean, again, like, really? It's not Joe Montana? Well, there's, we've had this conversation before. There's one position in the history of the NFL that there is a no debate.

You might say running back in Jim Brown, but there's the other position would be wide receiver. Nobody ever debates that Jerry Rice is anything other than the greatest wide receiver in the history of the game. Every other position has a lot of debate. You're right. So I don't have a problem with that. Except for running back and Jim Brown, but you're you're right. I don't have a problem with it. You know, Rice won a Super Bowl without Montana, but Montana won a Super Bowl without Rice as well. That's true, the early ones. Russell Wilson is the greatest Seahawk of all time. The only other name that came to mind for me was Largent. I mean, but it's probably right. Not Jim Zorn? No, not Zorn.

But, you know, Largent was the all-time leading pass catcher. I think he passed Monk, right? The all-time leading pass catcher when he retired. Yes. Yes. So. I think it's large. Tampa Bay.

Derek Brooks. I don't have a problem with that. I mean, Selman was phenomenal back in the 70s when they were really good. You could say, I guess you could say John Lynch, or you could say, I don't know. I mean, I don't have a problem with it. Like the Tampa thing, I was like kind of struggling to come up with anybody that is good. I mean, Warren Sapp was a great player.

Great player. I'm okay with Derek Brooks. One of the great linebackers of his era. You mentioned all the guys that are, you know, John Lynch, Leroyce Selman, Derek Brooks. So the last two teams on this list are the, Washington's pick and the Oilers slash Titans pick. And this was the one that I had the biggest issue with. For the Oilers slash Titans, Warren Moon.

Now, I think Warren Moon's an all-time great. But Earl Campbell's the greatest player in the history of that franchise, period. End of discussion. That's the way I feel. Like Earl Campbell is the biggest gripe I think I would have of any of them that we've talked about so far. Maybe Tarkington for Moss. Maybe for me, what did I say earlier? Stawback for Emmett, but Earl Campbell's the greatest player in the history of the Oilers Titans organization. I think you're right. I think you're right about that. It's close.

Yeah, it's not that close. Warren Moon's a great. He's a Hall of Famer, great quarterback, phenomenal quarterback. Earl Campbell carried that team to two straight AFC championships, and they really should have won the one in which Renfro got both feet and bounds, and they called them out of bounds at three rivers. Daryl Green was Washington's greatest of all time. I wonder if this guy, what's this from, Barstool or Fandul? This is a Fandul thing. I wonder if this is the same idiot that did the basketball one.

and I think had Gilbert as the wizard's number one. Yeah, that was a joke. Of all time. So you have a problem with Derrick Green? The question is, what would be... Yes. Yes, I don't have a problem with Daryl Green. I just don't think he's the greatest player of in the franchise history.

I think that this is a lock. Sammy Ball. This is Sammy Ball. A Sammy Ball, Jesus, I can't begin. I'd have to even argue this. He led the league in passing. four times. He led the NFL in completion percentage eight times.

He led the NFL in punting. Five times. He led the league and interceptions caught once. Yeah. And plus, he helped establish this Washington football franchise.

I mean, they won the World, they won the NFL championship. Their first year in town in 1937. And by the way, rush up on your hail victory because the football team's doing a big anniversary for the 90th year of the franchise. I know. Sammy Baugh put this team on the map and basically establish them as one of the NFL franchise to vault. This isn't even an argument.

How many Sean Taylor days do they have during this 90th year anniversary recognition? I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, I'll tell you, they might as well use my book. as the blueprint for this. I suggest they do that. There are plenty available. So I'm with you. That's fine. Okay. But can we just for a moment pretend that this list, which doesn't have anybody from, I don't

think anybody, well, Joe name at this pre-1970 is. Jim Brown. Jim Brown is. Yeah. Jim Brown is. That is it, though. That's the list of pre-1970 players. Well, I would expect when you have children playing in a sandbox, this is what you come up with. So if Sammy Ball wasn't allowed as the answer, that's when it gets really tricky for Washington. I don't have a problem with Daryl Green being the answer there.

But you certainly could make the case for James Arthur Monk. You could make the case for Rigo. could make the case for Sonny. You could make the case for Kirk Cousins. I'm just kidding. But you know, you can make the case for Charlie Taylor. You could make the case for Bobby Mitchell. I don't have a problem with Darrell Green, but I'm asking. Let's go down the list of all the players that have had their numbers retired by the franchise and start from there. Okay. Well, Bobby Mitchell, Sean Taylor, and of course, Sammy Ball. No, if he wasn't an option for you, who would it be?

I'm just curious who you would pick. So I'm asking you who the second greatest player in franchise history is. It's hard not to pick Darrell Green. I'm real tempted to pick Sunny, okay, because I know what he meant to the franchise in the 60s. and beyond. I mean, I don't necessarily have a problem with Daryl Green as the modern-day pick, okay? Do you think that Sonny, we've never had this conversation, do you think Sunny meant more to the organization than Rigo did?

Yeah, yeah, I do. I think Rigo's the most beloved of all time. I've got no answer for that. Clearly, it took you a while to get to it. I've got no problem with Daryl Green. I've got no problem with Daryl Green, but you're right. Sammy Boss should be number one. I mean, he's, he is the only, he's the only player in the history of the franchise, really,

that was considered the greatest player in the game when he was playing. No other player that's ever played for the franchise was considered the greatest player in the game when they were playing. So almost by that definition alone, it's got to be Sammy Baugh. You could also say that Sammy Baugh is the only player in the history of the franchise that was the greatest player at his position playing in the game at that time, and there was no debate about it. You know, as great as Daryl Green and Art Monk and Charlie Taylor and Rigo and Sonny were, you know, you'd have to, you can certainly debate that they weren't even the best.

best players at their position at the height of their careers. And that's because there were lots of good players at the position. They were clearly all pros and pro bowlers, although Rigo never was in the Pro Bowl. But there were other players you could debate. You couldn't debate that about Sammy Baugh. It's not like there was another quarterback. Is it Sammy or is it, you know, Harold Finkelpepper? Yeah.

You weren't debating that. And Sammy Ball was the best player in the game for a while. And we've never had that in any of our teams, with the exception of maybe, maybe Alex Wechkin. Yes. Well, you're right. We're going to say Scherzart or Walter Johnson? No, I was going to say Walter Johnson, but he pitched when, you know, there were other

great players in baseball as well. Right. All right. Anything else for today? I think we've done enough for everybody. Listen. What? You know where I'm going after I get done?

here? I don't. Head into the Poconos. I thought you were going to say heading to the Loudoun County Courthouse. No. No, I'm heading to the Poconos, and tonight for the 47th year, I'm going to be sitting on a bar stall drinking at Rudy's Tavern. At Rudy's Tavern, yep. A bar that has not changed since the first day I walked in.

I love when you tell stories about Rudy's. Have a great time. Have a beer on me. I'd love to be there with you. Enjoy the long weekend. Enjoy the holiday weekend. And we will reconvene on Tuesday, July 5th. All right, we're done for the day. I'm back tomorrow with a special guest.