The Kevin Sheehan Show - Skins' on Hard Knocks and GoT For the Last Time

Episode Date: May 20, 2019

Kevin opens the show with Nats, NBA, and the Skins' as the favorites to do HBO's Hard Knocks. Steve Sands/Golf Channel was a guest talking PGA Championship. Show ends with a Game of Thrones recap. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, real quickly before the show begins, because we had completed the show before the news about Ruben Foster. And if you're just hearing this for the first time, it broke late morning, early afternoon. But Ruben Foster went down with a serious injury today at OTAs. He was taken off the field in an aircast, left knee in an aircast. So it does not look good. But just wanted to mention that because we were done with the show when the news broke. But I was, wanted to jump in here at the beginning before the show starts to mention it, and we'll obviously do a lot more on this injury tomorrow when we have even more information about it, but it doesn't look good for Ruben Foster, who was carted off the field today with his left knee in an aircast.

So that's bad news. But anyway, here's the show, the Monday show, which by the way does include a Game of Thrones recap, but here it goes. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin.

All right, I am here. Aaron is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation, or go to Window Nation.com and tell them we told you to call. We will have an in-depth Game of Thrones series finale discussion. That will come at the end of the show with the obligatory. Spoiler alert. Nothing else to be said about it for now, Aaron. We'll save it all for the final

segment. Sounds good. Steve Sands from the Golf Channel in a little bit on Brooks Kepka's fourth major championship in less than two years yesterday's coming at the PGA championship at Beth Page Black. The breaking news, local news here this morning is that Tim Connolly is staying in Denver. The Wizards still now in search of a general manager after firing Ernie Grunfeld. We're nearly, you know, over a month now since Ernie's firing, closing in on a month and a half, the wizard's still without a GM. ESPN's Adrian Wojnerowski was the first to break the news. The post then reported that Connolly never got a contract offer from Ted Leonys.

I have heard differently this morning. I had a conversation this morning with someone close to the team that said he was offered a four to five year deal. By the way, the ESPN report says that Connolly was impressed with Leonis's vision for the franchise when he met with him last week, but that Denver ownership made an aggressive case to keep Connolly per sources. And Wojnerowski said it was a major coup for Denver. So Denver and Tim Connolly stay together. The Wizards now, you know, expected to turn their search back towards guys like Tommy Shepard, who's already in the organization, Danny Ferry,

and Oklahoma City's Troy Weaver. The Nationals, Aaron, lost two of three to the Cubs over the weekend. By the way, Philadelphia is on a roll. They won three this weekend with Bryce Harper's bat coming alive this weekend. If you're not following that, two homers and six RBIs for Bryce over the weekend. Did you see the one home where I think it was on Saturday, cleared the batter's eye? It was ridiculous. I didn't see it.

I just read about it over the weekend. And that's got one good outing from Strasbourg. Helixen was awful early yesterday. And Scherzer was a little bit off as well. But some rough relief pitching per usual, especially on Friday night. Last night, you know, after Helixen basically couldn't throw a strike in the first inning, they rallied back, you know, to get within a run in the seventh inning.

but they lost six to five, and that leaves them eight games under 500, you know, 46 games into the season and eight games out of first place at this point. And even the one one didn't come without controversy with Joe Madden getting all angry. They were going to protest the game, and then they decided ultimately not to. But the Nats, after finally getting a series win last week against the Mets, followed it up by losing two of three to Chicago. Two quick Redskins subjects here, we get to the NBA. The first is this. I talked to somebody over the weekend close to the organization

that said that the buzz about Montez Sweat from coaches and players alike is palpable. It's loud. They are really excited about what this kid looks like, the talent that he has, and the kind of kid that he is. I've heard that too, that they are very much excited. about the person, but definitely the talent and the player. I cannot wait to see him play. You know what? I actually can't wait to see him play in a preseason game. I know it's a preseason game,

but it's one of those positions where you do get a sense early on. Is this guy blockable or not? Like it's not that hard. Like on third down in a preseason game, starters against starters, are they able to block them in the first quarter or not? You know, you'll get a sense. of what kind of talent he is.

I can't wait to see him play. The second Redskins-related thing is this. Somebody, you mentioned this to me when you walked in here this morning, and you said, we should talk about this. And I was already planning on talking about it because somebody had texted me over the weekend to say, with a link to an offshore site that had odds on the NFL teams and hard knocks. And the Redskins right now are the favorite to be the Hard Knocks team.

on HBO this summer. It's really very interesting about this particular football team right now, in that they have become, in basically a month's time, a team that nobody was interested in, and now everybody's interested in them. You know, they are being crowned, and this has happened in previous years, off-season champs. And because of it, Vegas thinks the skins have the best chance to land hard knocks. You know, I think it was them. I saw the Raiders and the giants. Giants, yeah.

You know, I don't know if I said this on the podcast, but I actually went back and looked at it. Mid-December, I was saying, if Gruden doesn't get fired, Redskins are going to be the Hard Knocks team. Well, you're, I mean, I don't know if they will. They're the favorite right now. It's actually a little bit surprising because I... I think there's a couple things to it.

A, there aren't many teams that can. The Giants with the whole Gettelman thing and the Daniel Jones thing, that would be interesting. It would be kind of interesting, but I think losing O'Dell Beckham was a big loss there. What about the Cardinals? And the idea, Cardinals can't because they have a coach.

Oh, right, right. Yeah, there's only a handful of teams who can be forced into it. Raiders with AB? I think they're saving them next year for Vegas. What's the difference if they're in Vegas or in Oakland? Because you can hype up the Vegas move. Okay. It's, you know, the NFL will want them in Vegas because they want them to get.

Will they hold training camp in Vegas? If not, I mean, whether, or not they hold it. It's just like they wanted, when the Rams moved to L.A., they wanted hard knocks in that to kind of hype up the L.A. It turns into an infomercial for L.A., just like I'll turn into an infomercial for Vegas. So I always thought it was going to be Redskins or Giants, and when Giants traded O'Dell, and the Daniel Jones thing is fine, but he also has no chance to start. So that kind of loses its luster. So now when you have Dwayne Haskins here, when you have Landon Collins and Josh. That's true about his odds of starting.

That is true because of Eli. Yeah. I've been told in the past that the Redskins haven't wanted hard knocks, but I do believe now that they feel differently, or at least he, he, Dan Snyder, feels differently. You know, it's a continuation really of the, you know, the fallout from last season's home attendance, last season's television ratings, the Philadelphia game. my belief, and I wasn't the only one that Dan would really insert himself much more in this

offseason than he has in recent off seasons, and I think that's been proven out. I think it's a chance for, you know, I think he probably believes it's a chance to continue the April and May feel good, you know, story with an inside look where, by the way, they can control almost everything. You know, they can give us what they want to give us, which is an inside look into something that for them will give them a chance to give you an inside look into something that isn't as bad as most of us know it to be. You know, they can make Bruce Allen look smart. They can make Doug Williams look like he's in charge of something. They can introduce most of you because most of you've really never seen or heard Kyle Smith. He's actually impressive. One of the

few out there that is. They can entertain you with Gruden, who was very entertaining that summer, in Cincinnati as the offensive coordinator when they were the hard knocks team. Rob Ryan is there, Jim Tom Sula. They've got entertaining coaches. They can really focus in. The Redskins can control sort of the focus and the highlighting of guys that really are impressive. You know, win-first guys like John Allen and Trent Williams and Brandon Sheriff and Matt Ionitis and Chris Thompson and Adrian Peterson.

You know what, actually, as I'm sitting there rolling through players like that, it's in a way I'm acknowledging that I'm impressed with some of the players on their roster. I am. I should acknowledge that more, but I've said that in recent years, that I actually think that they've done a pretty good job, especially with the young talent on defense. But they've got some players in the organization that will deliver results without boasting about them in advance. and they can highlight those guys, you know?

And at the same time, they've got some guys like Josh Norman, who more likely than not will still be here, that can be very entertaining in the opposite direction. But the hard-knock's opportunity for the Redskins, this go-around, is one that I would bet any amount of money Dan really wants. It would be a no-lose marketing opportunity for them right now. They got to bounce with what was a widely, acclaimed and also a self-proclaimed great draft, like historically great draft, a draft that

includes a young quarterback that could be a franchise quarterback, a quarterback that enters the league with a never-to-be-forgotten quote, the league done messed up. Hard knocks would be good for the Redskins. But trust me on this, unless you're really gullible, unless you are a really gullible fan or media member. You won't get an inside look at how dysfunctional they are with hard knocks. And I would be shocked if you even saw Dan Snyder as part of it. But Doug, Jay, Bruce, to a lesser extent, maybe, Eric Schaefer, Kyle Smith. By the way, I will listen to the Cooley interview with Eric Schaefer. I've not listened to it yet. I saw that this morning on my Twitter notifications. I didn't, Cooley didn't call me to let me know he had done Eric Schaefer on Friday.

So go listen to it if you want on Cooley's podcast. But I will listen to it and have some comments on it tomorrow or Wednesday, maybe tomorrow with Tommy, after I listen to it. But you know, you'll get in Hard Knocks, you'll get a lot of Doug, you'll get a lot of Jay, you'll get a lot of, you know, Rob Ryan and Jim Tom Sula and Josh Norman and probably some Ruben Foster. This could be a great chance for them to highlight what. but they know that none of us know that Ruben Foster is actually a great guy, for them they should do it. They should do it.

They've got nothing to lose and everything to gain because they have control in this editing process over the gains in hard knocks. One of the pieces to this hard knocks thing is they can't give up competitive advantage, too much competitive advantage. So there is some editing ability from the team standpoint. They can really take this show, and put a face on the organization that will change some opinions on them,

at least until the season starts, and the games are played, the games that count. But I think they should do this. I think that there's a chance it could be very entertaining. I would be, and I just said this, but I would be very surprised if you saw any of Dan in it.

He's very reclusive when it comes to public speaking, you know, public, you know, interviews. You know, maybe there's a meeting with Bruce and Eric Schaefer about a contract for Brandon Sheriff or something like that where maybe he's involved in that to a certain extent, but you're not going to get any real, you know, in-depth on him, I don't think. But they're the favorite to be the Hard Knocks team. When do we find out?

It should be coming up soon. I feel like it was around this time last year that we found out about the Browns. so it should be coming up in the next probably week or two. Has anybody ever gone from Hard Knocks to like a significant playoff run? I don't think so, but that makes sense when you think about who the Hard Knocks teams usually are. They're usually those mediocre teams who... Who hasn't done Hard Knocks? Who hasn't ever done Hard Knocks?

Patriots have never done it. Most good teams have never done Hard Knocks because you can't have the playoff team. So let's see, Patriots, Steelers, Eagles haven't done it. You're not allowed to do playoff? What are the rules around this? I actually don't know. There are two rules because no one volunteers anymore. Hypothetically, you can volunteer, but no one volunteers.

The rules are if you've made it in the playoffs in the past two seasons, you can't be forced, and if you have a new head coach, you can't be forced, which is why they were only about five or six possible teams this year. What is it about a playoff team that basically prohibits their... I don't know. I think it's just kind of a reward, hey, if you're a good team, you don't have to do it. So it's only confined to the teams that aren't very good. Exactly.

I think, I mean, I think there are times in the past that as a fan of the team I didn't want it because I just thought it was a sideshow and it would be distracting and, you know, this go around, I think from their standpoint, I think it would make sense for them to do it. I think it would be, it would be good PR for ones for them to do it. Usually, usually you go into training camp with the Redskins that it is kind of a nightmare and you don't want it featured. Sure. But this time, it's the case.

By the way, the other two teams that we haven't mentioned to our possibilities are the Lions and 49ers. Okay. Yeah, well, that makes sense. No, I think that for them right now, they are feeling about as good about themselves as they have in a long time. And it really took one weekend for that to happen, you know, a draft that's been, you know, from all, you know, all circles of the NFL, you know, all corners of the NFL world has been very much viewed as a great draft, as much as you can in the moment. And the Redskins have taken advantage of that. I mean, they've marketed that great draft.

You see them on social media talking about how great their draft was over and over again every single day. And they're trying to market that. They need it. They needed a jolt in this offseason. They got it with this draft and with the selection of not just Dwayne Haskins. But with Montes-Swed, two first-round picks, I like the draft. I've said it over and over again. As much as you can like the draft in the moment, I liked it.

NBA over the weekend. Golden State, we'll get to last night. Golden State was amazing on Saturday night. For a second consecutive game, Portland built a massive lead, an 18-point lead they had on Saturday night, and blew it. Some of it was them. Some of it was Golden State. Actually, most of it was Golden State. On Saturday night in particular, I just wanted to mention Draymond Green because he proved himself to be what many of us have always known him to be.

And that is one of the most valuable team players in recent NBA history. This isn't a judgment on whether or not he's a top 10 player, top 20 player, top 30 player as an individual player. He is one of a handful of players who impacts winning more than most. He rebounds. He passes, he defends, he scores when he needs to. He knows the game inside and out. He has a super high basketball IQ. He makes everyone he plays with better.

He makes his team better. He impacts his team's chances of winning as much as anyone else on that team most nights. Saturday night was one of those nights. He's competitive as hell. He's aggressive as hell. He was a one-man fast break on Saturday night. We've seen it multiple times, by the way, during this postseason. He rebounds the ball and then pushes the pace by himself at incredible up-tempo, high-speed, high-intensity,

putting the opponent on the defensive. That creates one good opportunity after another for his teammates. his attack, his relentlessness to push pace and constantly put a defense on its heels is fun to watch and it's so impressive for somebody at that position. Teams and coaches, by the way, that prefer players like Draymond Green to slow down so that they can micromanage each possession to play, quote, smart basketball, to play in-control basketball. You know, to me, that is an indication more often than not of the coach's limitations. And that is more times than not too cautious of an approach to win anything of note.

I am referring in some ways to Maryland for those that picked up on that. Not all of you are Maryland. Basketball fans are care about it when I talk about Maryland, but my biggest frustration here in recent years has been the lack of sort of adapting to the talent. Steve Kerr never gets in the way of his talent. Draymond Green, who is a forward, okay, is not a primary ball hand. like one of their guards, although he's a good ball handler and a very good passer. But his coach allows him to take the ball off the rim and create a one-man fast break

where he drives it and attacks a defense and then turns around and kicks it to a wide-open shooter. Or he gets it to the rim himself. I think more times than not, when you have talent, you have to play aggressively. and you have to eliminate your idea of what smart basketball or what good basketball is. It's a limitation. A lot of coaches have that. They're too cautious. They want to micromanage too much. And more times than not, that doesn't win the big prize. It wins, but not the big prize. I was also impressed on Saturday night with Draymond Green's moment of very impressive self-awareness. Aaron, I don't know if you saw this.

He spoke about his previous bouts with too much complaining about calls. And he said his mother and his fiancé have both asked him to dial it back. And they've had influence on his recent behavior, which has included less arguing. And he said, quote, and this was, I think, after the game Saturday night. He said, quote, sometimes I'm not mindful, and I'll get a tech, and that will just kill the energy of our team. I've really been focused and locked in on that. I realized I got to the point where I was doing more crying than playing. I'm sure it was disgusting to watch.

I felt disgusting playing that way. Closed quote. I loved that quote from him. winning is everything to Draymond Green. It's always been obvious, even when his antics have sort of masked that fact. But anyway, that's self-awareness. That's growth.

I mean, maybe he'll revert to complaining in the next series, but I love that quote from him. By the way, just as an aside, I have not been impressed with Portland and the way that they have specifically handled the defense of Damian Lillard. Lillard and McCollum, to a lesser degree, have been trapped and hedged hard and doubled off these pick and rolls over and over again. And I know Lillard is hurt and he's not complaining about it, so I can give him credit for that, but he has been totally taken out of his rhythm because of the way

Golden State has defended the pick and roll. And I don't understand for the life of me why they haven't figured out that there's an opportunity. And look, I'm just a youth coach, right? Just an AAU youth coach. But when you get hedged that hard and you're pushed out towards the half court line or one of the sidelines by two players, the middle of the floor with the unguarded player is wide open. And you beat that with a quick pass and they haven't more times than not.

I would have used McCollum as the pick and roll player. How difficult would it be to double Lillard off a pick and roll or a pick and pop with McCollum? Hard to do that. And if you do it, now you've got McCollum in the middle of the floor unguarded with the ball in his hands, attacking the rim. Lillard is 15 of 46 in this series with 14 turnovers in three games. Again, I know he's hurt. McCollum's also.

had to face some of this defensive pressure. And he's 37% from the floor, 27% from behind the arc, after an incredible series that he had in the last series in their win over Denver. He's had too many turnovers also. Portland's good enough to have won one of the last two games, but they may instead be on the verge of being swept. I had Portland, Aaron, Saturday night, laying two and a half.

The world was on Golden State. I didn't give that out on Friday, right? We didn't know the line. I don't think so, yeah. So I'm glad I didn't give it out, but I did play it myself. Last night, Kauai Leonard was, well, it's interesting because he was off at times. By the way, just as a side note, I didn't watch this game live. There was some major reason for that.

I watched the first hour and a half of it live, but then I decided to turn on Game of Thrones and watch Game of Thrones from the jump, where last week I recorded Game of Game of Thrones. of Thrones and watched it after the fact, but that was a game seven. That was a seventh and deciding game, and it was really close. So I watched this afterwards. I did not know the outcome, but I watched the third and fourth quarter after Game of Thrones was over. But Kauai was off a little bit, also apparently hurt and hobbling, but so good in key moments, a beast defensively on Janus in particular. He hit so many big shots, got so many key stops. The key to the game last night for Toronto, in my view,

is that while they didn't hit a great percentage of their three-point attempts, they hit a ton of three, 17 of them. Powell was obviously a surprise performer. Gassal was knocking down threes, big ones. 17-3s, even on 45 attempts, gives them a chance because it takes the pressure off Kauai. With that said, Leonard played 52. minutes, and if he's not completely healthy, that would end this series immediately, pretty much.

You also, if you're being objective about this, and I'm rooting for Toronto even though I picked Milwaukee, but you've got to think that Milwaukee got 12 points from Janus last night in 45 minutes, and still the Raptors needed two overtimes to win the game. That would be encouraging if you're a Milwaukee fan. But anyway, I still think Milwaukee probably, figures out a way to win the next two. Not rooting for it. I'm rooting for a long series. I'd love Toronto to win. I've enjoyed watching them in this postseason. And Golden State clearly has after rallying from 18 down on Saturday night to beat Portland. They've got the Blazers dead to write. I thought the Blazers could win two games in this series and really they should have won.

They had a chance to win both of the last two, games two and three with the huge leads in both of those games. but Golden State's just too good, and Draymond Green on Saturday night was just spectacular. Let me get to a quick word on Wind Donation, and then we'll bring Steve Sands in to talk about yesterday's PGA Championship. Hey, it's Grillmeister Kevin here for Wind Donation. Yeah, I do enjoy grilling, actually. While you're firing up that grill, Windonation's ready to kick off summer with sizzling savings. Buy one, get one free. Yeah, Window Nation's absolute best offer is back until May 31st.

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All right, let's bring in Steve Sands from the Golf Channel. Steve, of course, also works for NBC Sports, covers golf as a huge DC sports fan and is a good friend. And I wanted to wait until after the weekend to have him on to talk about what we thought going into the weekend was a formality, and that is that Brooks Kepka would win his fourth major championship in the last two years. But I would start by asking you this. Was there any moment on the back nine yesterday where you thought he might lose? No. I thought it was too much of a lead. It was too much of a cushion. And because the back nine is so hard, Kevin, I didn't think Dustin Johnson could keep making birdies. I thought Kepka could perhaps keep making bogeys.

based on the train he was on, but I didn't think that Johnson could keep pushing forward. So he had so much of a cushion going to that back nine that it would be almost impossible for him to blow that one. He did seem, though, on the drive, you know, he had four bogeys in a row, and then the drive on 15, I think it was the drive on 15 where he was in trouble also. I did think for a moment that we had a shot maybe at a playoff or at least a shot, which would have been incredible for him to go under the projected winning score over under number, which I think was minus seven and a half, that never looked in doubt. But I don't think in any

of these majors we've ever seen him wobble like we did yesterday. And I'm wondering if you think it was more about the course and the weather than it was him. I don't know what it was exactly, but listening to what he said last night afterwards. He said all the right things, Kevin. He said he was choking. He said he was feeling the pressure. He said the fans were cheering for DJ. He said he knew the DJ was coming, all of those things. And I think that having won three previous majors, having gone back to back at the U.S.

Open, trying to become the first player to ever go back to back at the U.S. Open and the PGA at the same time, I think that the pressure mounted on him. And I think that when you are on cruise control, like he, he was, and then all of a sudden things get just a little tighter, not much tighter, but a little tighter, then all of a sudden you really start to tighten and I think that's what it was

more than anything. I think he now realizes, even though what he said on Tuesday, was that he thinks majors are the easiest ones to win versus the regular tour events, because at a tour event, everybody feels as if they can win when they tee it up. We're at major championships.

You can cut the field in half almost immediately and then cut the other half in half. from players who he thinks he's just better then and can handle that pressure. I think that he now realizes, Kevin, how difficult these things are to win, and who knows what's going to happen to them moving forward after yesterday. You know, I was just thinking about something when you started your answer, and I was just curious if this is a thing or it's just something that I think might be a thing, and that is this.

When you are playing in a group of two or three, How influenced are you from the play of the others? I mean, Harold Varner shot 81. He struggled after that first hole right from the jump. He had back-to-back double bogeys early in the round. Is that a thing where if you're in the right group with the right player, that it can sometimes affect your individual play? Yes, there's no question about it happens every single day on the PGA tour.

That happens to me and you and we go play with friends. When guys who are better than us are playing well, Kevin, don't you feel like you try to raise your game just a little bit, sharpen your concentration just a little bit? It's the same thing out there with the world's best players. Although yesterday started funny. He had a seven-shot lead. Brooks did not play the first hole well in Bogie.

Harold Varner played it perfectly and Bertie. And in a matter, and Jim Nance said it on CBS. In a matter of 12 minutes, it went from a seven-shot. shot lead to a five shot lead. And then Harold really, really struggled. You never want to post an R monk on the PGA tour. You and I would be happy. You and I would be happy to shoot 81 anywhere for him to shoot 81 was

unfortunate. He's such a good kid. But there's no question that when someone is playing well, it can raise your level of game on the PGA tour. And there's no doubt about it at all that when someone's going sideways, it can really mess you up. I'll tell you how it messes you up more than anything, Kevin, is timing. If someone's hitting it back and forth, back and forth and playing hockey all over the place,

then your timing gets really thrown off. So you can definitely get affected by what your guy and your group plays like. You know, I actually, and I think Nance may have references or may have been Faldo, but one of the things that Varner did, even though he was all over the place, he was playing quickly. Like he tried to speed it up and get out of the way so he didn't. impact. It didn't impact KEPCA in that way. So, you know, we went through all weekend long, one list after another, you know, the lists that seemed endless, the holding of two U.S.

opens and two PGAs at the same time, the list of, you know, four majors before the age of 30, et cetera, et cetera. In your words right now, what is he in this sport? I think he's a beast, and I think he's dominant in the big events. And that's it. You know, he has been a runner-up at a PGA tour event, Kevin, nine times. He has had chances to win more PGA tour events. Now, as you know, and we've talked about this before, there's a big difference in sports between losing and getting beaten.

He has not really lost anything. He's just gotten beaten by guys because they just played a little better or they had a little bit more magic coming down the stretch. This is not someone who throws up all over himself at PGA tour events and finish his second. He will win more events. He's played better than most people realize. And now that he's won these four major championships in his last eight starts,

I think the ball rolls forward. I think he plays going downhill as opposed to struggling uphill. I think that right now the world is his oyster. Who knows how this all plays out? McElroy won four majors very quickly. Hasn't won one in five years. Speed looked like he was. going to be the next Nicholas or Tiger, and it's been a struggle for him the last 18 months.

Golf is a very fickle game, so let's all play it out. Let's not rub the anointing oil all over him just yet as far as winning 10, 12, 15 major championships, like a lot of people are saying, but he's going to win a lot more events on the PGA tour, Kevin. There's no question about it. You know, I always felt like the incredible optimism people had about Spieth was dangerous, because, you know, his game wasn't overpowering. I mean, it was, you know, mental. He was a great putter. And, you know, everybody that knows the sport well said that, you know,

if he ever struggles with his short game with putting, it's going to be a precipitous fall. I mean, he's not going to be able to contend. Whereas Kepka is more like Rory, and I understand Rory hasn't won one in five years, but there's this overpowering athleticism to his game that, you know, and he seems to have raised it to a level, by the way, late in his career relative to others in his sport, because he is a bit of a late

developer. There's something about watching him, Steve, that I think that he's going to be contending for a long time. And unless physically, you know, he gets injured or breaks down physically and he's had some injuries, as we know, he missed the Masters in 2018. He just looks like a guy that's a machine. Like you call him a beast. He just looks like he's going to contend and keep winning these things.

I totally agree. I also thought the same thing about McElroy. When he won his first major championship outside D.C. congressional at the U.S. Open in 2011, and then he won his last major championship, which was his fourth of his career, at Valhalla at the PGA Championship in 2014, having won three of the four in those four years, one, two, three, and four, 14 being the last one. I thought the same thing with Rory, and it's been five years. So let's wait and see how it all plays out.

The way it looks right now is because of that overpowering game that he has, I totally agree with you. Speeth's putting, dips down a touch, and then all of a sudden the rest of his game falls flat, whereas Kepka can overpower a golf course. Let's say Pebble Beach at the U.S. Open next month. He and Dustin Johnson are going to be the two. favorites. Dustin's won there before on the PGA tour, and it's not a long golf course, which you would think would bring in a lot of different types of players. But if you can overpower it and have little

wedges coming in, even if it's from the rough, then I think you're going to be at a huge advantage. So I agree with you wholeheartedly on what you said about Speed and also with Kepka. But we said the same thing about McElroy in 2014, and it's been zero since. So let's all wait and see how it plays. I was pumped the brakes just to touch. Now, I want to ask you about Rory here in a moment. But, you know, in just one or two more things on Kepka, like in the world of sports right now, I mean, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better, big-moment clutch performer

than Kepka. Maybe it's Steph Curry right now. You know, obviously it's Brady. But, you know, people don't know Kepka. You know, golf fans do. And I think maybe he's just starting to, surface outside the world of golf into the casual fans world. Like, who is this dude that just keeps winning every major event?

Yeah, there's no question about it. And like you said earlier, Devin, he was a late bloomer. You went to Europe and got his PGA tour card through going all over the world and playing on the European tour. And he kind of came up late. And now that he's won all these major championships, everybody's starting to recognize. Because what happens in golf, unlike the other sports, what happens in golf, very similar to tennis is a lot of people watch regular tour events, but they really watch the players and the majors. And at the major championships, when all of the eyeballs are watching, if you can perform on that stage, you've then become a massive start.

The texts I received Kevin from athletes the last couple of days about KEPCA are unlike any tech. I've received outside of the text I've received from Tiger Woods the week of the master. Give me some examples. Oh, man. I mean, major league players. I mean, not just baseball. I'm talking about NBA guys, NFL guys, NHL guys, guys who have been there, guys who have won titles, people who have an appreciation for what these guys can do that only you and I have from outside of the ropes. These guys have done it inside.

they are saying things like his focus, his strength, his mental ability, his ability to thwart people off and become intimidating. You know, it's become now, Kevin, that when you see Kepka on the first page of the leaderboard, I'm not comparing him to Tiger. I'm not. I'm not yet. No way. But when Kepka runs out on a first round 63, you don't think he can lose. You don't get the feeling that he's going to give it up. No.

you get the feeling that he's going to keep pressing forward. Now, the one difference I will tell you between Kepka and Tiger that I've seen so far, yesterday with a seven-shot lead, Tiger wins by 12. Tiger doesn't wobble home and then win. And Kepka did. Now, that's only one time, and that's the first time he's had to play with that kind of lead. When you start losing your focus a little bit because of that large lead with only nine to play, weird things can happen. But I'm telling you, other athletes are appreciating just how

great Kepka has become and think that he can absolutely keep it up for years to come, which would be amazing. You know, part of it too this weekend and yesterday is that Beth Page, first of all, the weather got really out of control with the winds yesterday. The course is brutal enough to begin with and then the winds kicked up. But that fan base there, the, the, the, the, the, the, the gallery is unlike any other. You've been to all these events. I just watch them on TV primarily, but that place was out of control. I mean, I don't know if you remember on Friday, Tiger hit a drive, you know, essentially off the fairway in trouble, and just the scene to try to clear space for him to be able to hit his shot back out into the fairway was nuts. I mean, is there a crazier scene that's more

unlike a golf crowd, then Bethpage? No, there's nothing like it. Being there last week, being amongst, look, you and I are massive sports fans, Kevin, and we're both from D.C. We love D.C. sports. We love everything about it. There's nothing like being in New York for a big sporting event.

Nothing. It is absolutely electric. It's incredible. And the athletes who handle it the best are the ones who embrace it and don't fight it. And Kepka yesterday embraced it. There were a couple times yesterday, like Tiger on Friday when he wiped it left and had to move all those fans around, there were a couple times yesterday when Kepka was in the crowd and you thought, man, this is going to take 10 minutes to clear everybody out of it. Right. The place is so loud, it's so great, it's so electric,

you can't help but just love it. If you have any kind of umph in you as a sports fan, If you can't appreciate the greatness that is being at a sporting event in New York, then something's wrong with you. And by the way, it's not like Wingfoot next year at the U.S. Open when they have Wingfoot host the U.S. Open. It's not like Shinnecock, which is out on the Hampton. What about Baltic Rae. Baltic Rae. Baltic Raw is also a hoity-to-y private club in North Jersey. Beth Page Black is a public golf course.

It's the people's golf course. It's the one that's closest to Manhattan that's accessible to everybody. And I think the Ryder Cup in 24, the greatest scene, I've told you this before, Kevin, the greatest scene I've ever seen in my life in sports in person was that Hazeltine and the Ryder Cup in 2016 in Minneapolis that was just bananas with all those people there. Beth Page Black is going to surpass that. It's going to be insane in 2024. And guess who has it? NBC.

We can't wait to show it. It'd be great. One more thing on Kepka. You know, coming into this event, and the talk about him is that, you know, that he's boring. He lacks charisma. I played twice this weekend.

And, you know, obviously when you're out there playing, we're all talking about Kepka and the round on Friday and then the round on Saturday and the whole thing. I didn't talk to one person that didn't feel the way I felt, which is his charisma is in his game and his swagger. Like, this dude's a badass. I don't get any, I don't get the reaction to him as a boring figure. I think there's something incredibly, you know, charismatic in watching him perform.

What do most people think, like golf fans think? I think that's exactly what it's become. I think when he first won the U.S. Open at Aaron Hills a couple of years ago, people thought, oh, okay, it's a one-off, kind of a boring, strong golfer who just hits it a mile, doesn't have a lot to say. If you listen to what Brooks has said in the last couple of years since he's gotten that first U.S. Open win, since he's become one of these faces of the game and voices of the game, and people are asking him questions that are beyond just golf,

he's an insightful kid who knows what he's doing, and he's not someone who's just a big dummy up there. He looks like he's a big dummy up there. He's got that swagger. He's big. He's got the big body that you don't really recognize too often in golf. And he just pounds the ball and he doesn't have a lot of emotion on the golf course. I think he lets his clubs do the talking, just like you said, which I think as a sports fan is fabulous. And then, and I've done this with him.

When you ask him a question, he's not afraid to answer it. Again, on Tuesday, he was on the podium as the defendant. champion of the PGA coming off of Tiger Woods winning the Masters last month for his 15th major and Brooks was asked a question about winning majors and he said something that every golfer knows but is afraid to say it majors are the easier ones to win because when you have 156 guys on the field Kevin you can slice that in half on talent level and then take that 78 and slice that in half to 39 based upon guys who just aren't ready to win, even though they have the game, and then you're basically going up against 39 or 40 guys. Whereas on the PGA tour week in week out, because

it's not the pressure of a major, just the pressure of winning a tournament, which by the way is incredibly difficult, but it's not a major. Brooks knows, and everybody else in golf knows, that anybody can win a PGA tour event. So he wasn't afraid to say it. I love an athlete who performs under pressure, and then when he's asked a question, answers it honestly. What more do you want from a guy like Brooks Kepka? I think he's fabulous. I totally agree. And in watching his interviews, I agree with you, too. I think he's insightful. I mean, he's no Dustin Johnson, you know, when you're talking to him. I mean, they both have this physically imposing game, but Kepka's much more interesting to me. But.

100%. But anyway, real quickly, at Pebbled, it sets up well for him. He'll be the favorite. You said Dustin will be a favorite. I'm sure Tiger will certainly be in the first four or five picks there as well. But you expect him to play well there too. Oh, there's no question. I think he's going to have probably one start before that. I think most people will play the Memorial on a couple of weeks, not this week, but next week. And I think everybody will be ready.

The guys who play well there have performed well there in the past. Dustin Johnson has won Pebble Beach on the regular PGA tour. Nicholson's one there too. Now, it's totally different than playing, you know, the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am, but Kepka can overpower a golf course, just like you said. And I think that guys like Spieth, who now is starting to round into form just a little bit with his third place finished this past week. He's won there before.

Kepka will play well. Johnson's one there. Tiger's one there. His U.S. Open was incredible. I think it's set up to be an epic U.S. Open. I really do. Should Tiger have played between the Masters and this past weekend? Would it have been helpful?

Great question. It definitely would have been helpful. However, he knows his body better than we do. And if he wasn't ready to compete, whether it was mentally or physically coming off of that massive Masters win that he had, then he knows best. But there's no question he was rusty competitively. Playing in practice rounds at home with your buddies, playing at the medalist, playing in your backyard and practicing and then going to Bethpage and practicing for a couple of days

for the PGA is not competing. If he would have played in Charlotte, I think he would have been sharper. However, if his body wasn't ready and his mind wasn't ready, then he needed to sit out. And only he knows that. So I do think he'll play next week. I think he'll play at the Memorial. If he doesn't play at the Memorial, then I think something is wrong health-wise. He always plays Jackson event.

He's won there a bunch of times. and he knows that in between these majors, Kevin, he has to have a competitive start to get those juices flowing, to get the adrenaline flowing, and play inside the roads with fans against the best players in the world, not just practice at home. So all eyes will be on the Memorial Jack's event. If he doesn't play there, I do think something's wrong, but I think he'll play there. I think he's healthy. I think he's all right. You mentioned Rory earlier, and I had it on my list of things to ask you about. You know, he barely made the cut.

At one point, I think he was seven over par on Friday after starting the round so poorly on Friday. And he ends up with the top 10 finish, which is amazing, going 69, 69 over the weekend. But he hasn't won in five years, you know, a major event. Why do you think that is with his talent? Well, I think that the putter has held them back. I think that the pressure of Augusta National. is also weighing heavily on him.

He can admit it or not, but it is. There's no question it's weighing heavily on him. He's trying to become a Grand Slam champion. Only five guys in the history of the sport have done it, and he has to do it at Augusta. The only person who's ever done that is Gene Sarazen, and that's not, back then, the Masters wasn't even the Masters, and the Grand Slam wasn't the Grand Slam.

The other five guys who have done it did it at either the PGA, the Open Championship, or the U.S. Open, where they go to different venues. So the weight of the Masters is weighing heavy on Rory. His putter holds him back at times. And I think that that's something that he's going to have to get over. And if he doesn't, he's going to continue that drought. He will not play well at Pebble Beach if that putter doesn't bail him out like it does from 2011 to 2014, like it did.

At certain times, you're not going to hit the ball sharply all the time. time, Kevin, you can't. So the putter has got to cooperate. And if the putter doesn't cooperate for Rory, I don't think he's going to win a pebble or at Royal Port Rush this year. Yeah, and Royal Port Rush would be awesome for him. You know he's going to, well, you know he's going to hit the ball well. Yeah. So he's got to be able to put well, even just putt decent. And Royal Port Rush, where he grew up just down the street, can you imagine if he's competing for an open championship of Royal Port Rush later this summer? My gosh, that'll be phenomenal. I mean, we talk about him like he hasn't done anything and he won the players this year.

No, yeah, no, he's a spectacular player, and I think he's right there. He just needs to put better. You need to make better decisions and he needs to put better, and I think he'll be just fine. I'm not worried about Rory in his game at all. He's perfectly fine. All right. Last one, and I'll let you run. You know, I appreciate this as always.

But I was thinking, well, actually two more. First of all, May, the PGA Championship in May, huge success, right? I would imagine that even without, well, without Tiger on the weekend, the ratings are going to be impacted in a significant way. But I think for me as a fan, I loved it in May. I think in August it really is sort of anticlimactic. I totally agree with you. I think it'll take just a little bit of getting used to.

Oh, the PGA's this week, that kind of deal. But I do think I agree with you 100%. It's a better time slot, and they're not going head-to-head against anything. They went against a bad NHL game yesterday. St. Louis destroyed San Jose in Game 5 out there, which was head-to-head. The preakness on Saturday, but the preakness doesn't start the Triple Crown. We don't start them on NBC until 650. The race doesn't go off until 7 o'clock, yeah.

Exactly. So I don't think that that's not really technically head-to-head against the PGA. I think it's a fabulous move for them to be in the second slot and not the fourth spot in August. I think it's fabulous. And for fans and for sponsors and for the guys who are playing and the caddies and the officials and everybody, it's much more comfortable playing in May than it is playing in August when it's hot and humid everywhere. Yeah, and the NBA, you know, you're in the conference finals at that point. Those games are at night.

Those games are at night. And there's really nothing head-to-head for them to go ahead. and they're not playing it on Mother's Day weekend, which is a national holiday on that Sunday. It's the week after Mother's Day. I think it's a great time slot for them. I mean, I was thinking about the position of this sport right now versus, you know, a year and a half ago and how incredibly healthy it must be. With Tiger being the Masters champion and Brooks Kepka with his fourth major in less than two years as the PGA champion,

and they're going to Pebble Beach for the U.S. Open. I mean, it's been a long time, I would imagine, from a business perspective, where this sport's been in this good as shape. Golf is so healthy right now at the highest level. The guys get it, Kevin. They're great. They've won. They've won big. Other than Ricky Fowler, all the great young players have won major championships.

And you get the resurrection of Tiger. You go into Pebble Beach, which outside of Augusta National is the most icon. It might not be the best, but it's the most iconic golf course in America. It's the 100-year anniversary of Pebble Beach, which is why they're playing it in 2019. Normally Pebble Beach has it on the zeros. They moved it up a year to celebrate their anniversary, their 100th anniversary. Phil Mickelson won earlier this year at Pebble Beach at the regular PGA tour event as he tries to win the career grand slam in his home state at a place where he's won multiple times. Tiger has won there in an amazing fashion.

with the 15-shot win. There's a lot to like about what's going on in golf right now. It's riding a very high wave into the U.S. Open, which is going to be spectacular. All right. The things that are more important to you, how disappointed are you with the nationals right now? I don't know if you heard the news, but Tim Connolly never even got an offer from the Wizard, so he's staying in Denver. The Redskins, I mean, they have been crowned off-season champions. again. So we have that. Is there anything you'd like to know about any of your favorite teams? Juxtaposing Chris Cooley's opinion with Mel Kuyper's opinion is a difficult one for me. I will always side with Cooley. I just hope he's wrong about number seven. I would love to see Dwayne

Haskins in the first game of the season come out because you know he's not going to play. It would be great if he came out with a single bar to pay homage to Joe Seichen. Why do you know he's not going to play. You really feel strongly that he's not going to play? I do. I think they're going to start. I think Jay's going to win that argument and start Case Keenham and see how long you can ride that. By the way, here's the... Yeah, go ahead. The second pick, I love, oh man, do I love the second pick in the first round? By the way, I've already, and I'm going to, I talked about this actually early in the show

today. But I'm already hearing that Montes Sweat is a beast. Like his teammates are watching him, you know, in hearing about him in the rookie minicamp that he is just overwhelmingly a physical freak. So I can't, that was the guy that I wanted at 15. I'm so glad that they got him at 26, and I think that that's going to be exciting to watch. But I would just say to you, because you and I have these conversations all the time about our favorite teams, I have come to the conclusion that if Dwayne Haskins doesn't start week one, then they really, you know, they have settled in on this is a long-term developmental guy. Because if he is what I know Dan is hoping he is,

and what Dan thinks he's spotted in his scouting of Dwayne Haskins, if he's all that, I just can't imagine that Colt McCoy and Case Keenum are going to put up such a fight that it's going to be so obvious. is that they're much better than he is. Did you just say Dan and scouting? Well, I mean, this was his pick. So clearly he, I would assume that he spent a lot of time scouting.

Seven. As much trouble as we know that we are in as Redskins fans, based upon how we grew up with Jack Kent Cook, Oh, you mean Jack never timed anybody with a stopwatch at a combine? If Snyder's out there at the, you know, in Mobile, watching college football, then we are in more trouble than we... Well, okay, so that was tongue placed firmly in cheek. No, I know. But you do know that this was his pick.

Oh, believe me. I've heard plenty from off-the-record stuff about what's going on there. As far as the Nats, by the way, the Nats are just not very good, which is a shame. Let's get healthy again and see what happens. They can make a run. You never know in baseball with that pitching, but they need to turn it around very quickly. the caps really let me down. I know they did. The caps, if they didn't win it all last year, man, would they have been getting slammed this year for losing a 2-0 series lead, a 3-2 series lead, and a home game 7, two-goal lead twice? That's vintage caps right there.

That was ugly. And the Nats, I mean, the Wizards, can we just get it together? Can we get it together? God, we can't get it together. I'm psyched about the Terps, by the way. Yeah, me too. You know, I hope that they, you know, we both love Mark a lot, and next year's going to be. Let your horses run.

Let your horse is run. Let them get out and move a little bit. Because they got some talent. All right, thanks. There's some games in the 80s, for goodness sakes. Man, oh, man. Call me if you're back in the area anytime soon. driving up there, you're going to live at the beach for the summer, so we'll be up there for about seven weeks in about three or four weeks from now.

All right. Well, I'll be down there. I'll call you. We'll figure out a day to play golf. Or go to the Starboard. Either one. Just go to Starboard and drink. All right.

Thanks, Steve. Appreciate it. Any time, Ken, say it, bud. All right, thanks to Steve. He's always awesome. Really enjoyed the conversation about Brooks Keppka. He is, to me, right now, a very compelling figure. in all of sports. And I don't think you need to be a golf fan. Maybe you do to a certain degree,

but when they go to Pebble Beach next month, which is an iconic venue for a major championship, and you've got Tiger there and Kepka with his four majors in less than two years, it's going to be quite a show. And I just enjoy watching him play. I think he's more charismatic than most people think. Quick word about launch workplaces, and then we will get to two items, and then to our Game of Thrones series finale recap. Quick word first about launch workplaces. If you don't want to work from home anymore or you've been looking to move offices

and you live in Bethesda, Upper Northwest D.C., etc., in that general Bethesda Chevy Chase Upper Northwest D.C. area, consider launch workplaces in Bethesda. They've got fully furnished new offices, brand new, beautiful space. They've got co-working desks. If you just need a desk, a couple of, days a week. They've got conference rooms, high speed internet, a cafe, free parking and plenty of

it. Get more work done today by moving your office to launch workplaces in Bethesda. You can call today for an exclusive free two-day trial, 240, 86714, or go to launchworkplaces.com today. I had somebody stop in the other day and say, took your advice, it's worked out really well, great spot, easy access, plenty of parking, and it's just a perfect spot. Now, there are other locations around town. Launchworkplaces has several other locations around town, and you can find all of them at launchworkplaces.com. All right, before we get to Game of Thrones, recap, I wanted to mention two things real quickly. Number one is that OBJ last week, I don't know if you read about him leaving the Brown's OTAs. Lots of people, you know, talking about, you know,

apparently the coaching staff didn't have a problem with it publicly, but Mary Kay Cabot, who covers the Browns, said that Freddie Kitchens actually was not thrilled, that OBJ showed up for one day of OTAs and then left. But, you know, a lot of people really ripped him because, remember, this is a guy that's, you know, predicted that the Browns are going to become the new Patriots, and then he leaves after one day of OTAs.

My one comment on this is, I'm stealing this from somebody and I couldn't find who it was, but I remember somebody tweeting out the following about OTAs. And, you know, I think I liked it on Twitter, Aaron, but I couldn't find it for whatever reason. So I'm paraphrasing at this point, but I remember agreeing with it wholeheartedly when it came to OTAs. And this particular person, who I can't remember, basically tweeted, you know, that most NFL players make over a million dollars a year, and many of them make millions of dollars a year, and they essentially get six to seven months off. I know they're working out and they're staying in shape and the whole thing, but they get six to

seven months where they're not required to get up and go to work. And this person said the next CBA should make OTAs mandatory. That it didn't seem to him, and I totally agree with this, that it would be so harsh to demand that players who are making millions of dollars a year show up for nine additional off-season practices. You know, for the kind of money they're making, nine additional days of work isn't that much of an ask. So I think the next CBA should definitely make these mandatory.

So the question is, what do the players get out of it? It doesn't matter. What they're getting out of it is these significant salaries. Okay, but they already have that and they have that without the mandatory OTAs. No, if you're talking about a negotiation and acquit pro quo. You're saying it's the CBAs, there would have to be something going back. So I'm wondering who cares about it enough. It's just a shame because I don't even know how significant these OTAs are,

but it's like they could make them significant. They could make them more important. But there shouldn't be a quid pro quo for the kind of money they're making for nine additional workdays. It just doesn't seem like that much to me. But you make a very good point, which is at this point, the toothpaste is already out of the toothpaste holder. So you can't put it back in and say, oh, now we're requiring you to come to these practices. They're mandatory. And then when they ask, well, what are we getting in return?

Say what you've always been getting, which is a really good salary. That'll make it hard, I would assume. One other quick sports note, I don't know if anybody else saw this. I did. I think somebody tweeted it to me or texted it to me. Do you know who won the EuroLeague MVP basketball EuroLeague? Jan Vesely, the Yon Veseli was your Euroleague MVP this year. See, Ernie was right.

Ernie was right. I don't know. He plays for some team in Turkey, I think. But he was the Euroleague MVP. So better late than never, for Jan, for the Wizards, doesn't help much. All right. Let's get to what you've been waiting for all day. And I couldn't wait for either.

And that is our final. Game of Thrones recap. All right, I want to just, before we get into the conversation about the finale, because last night and early this morning, I actually did read a lot about the episode last night. And I guess you've been telling me all along, and I haven't gotten to it right away of how controversial these shows have been. And, you know, we talked about last week the petition that now has more than a million signatures on it

to actually rewrite and reshoot the fun. final season of Game of Thrones. I don't feel the same way. I think I'm probably in the minority about the way I feel about last night, because I liked it. Several, you know, issues with various things, which we'll get into. But I wanted to just start this conversation since it will be our last, with this one overarching theme, as Cooley used to say, because I was thinking about as I was reading last night all of the criticism, you know, of this season. and the series finale. I just disagree from this perspective.

This show never really disappointed me like it did others. And I think most people would say through the first seven seasons. I mean, you could count the number of disappointments on one hand. First six, at least. I didn't have a problem with seven. I had issues, yes, with a lot of the ways they went with various events and characters. and character arcs. But I also had the expectation as you did,

and we talked about this a lot before the show started six weeks ago, that this final season would be rushed. I wish it hadn't been rushed. It didn't need to be rushed. I'll never understand why we didn't get 10 or more episodes in the final season. To be honest with you, I think last night's finale, it would have been better served for it to have been two hours. You know, plus I think there were many things that we cut

and jumped from one thing to the next, and it could have been, there could have been more content there. But this show, Aaron, for me, over the seven and a half, because really this last season was a half season, more than a full season, if you want to call it eight, that's fine. But it's, it never disappointed. It consistently, in just about every episode of this series, did two or three of the following things for me. It wowed me. It shocked me. It made me happy.

It made me sad. It made me laugh. It made me teary-eyed. It angered me. All of these emotions that Jim Valvano, the great late Jim Valvano once said, remember in that great speech, he said, you know, you laugh, you cry,

you get happy, you get sad, or whatever it was, I'm paraphrasing. He said, that's a full day. And so many times sitting there on Sunday night watching this show, this spectacle of a show, it felt like I had just gone through the emotions of like a full week, let alone an hour. The only other show that I've ever watched that's ever done that, television show, lots of movies have done it over the years. The only other show that I watched, and I've missed, I've got a lot of blanks on my resume for various shows

that people have sworn that I would love like the wire. I've never watched the wire. Really? The only other show to ever do that for me was Breaking Bad. In a totally different way, of course. But Game of Thrones was unbelievable in the crazy roller coaster ride that it took you on, week in and week out, with characters in particular. You know, I've said this many times to you, as we've talked about this show, it was light on fantasy, heavy on character, which is why I think I really enjoyed it.

And the characters and the relationships were just intricate and really interesting and very moving at times. And I know we got heavy on the fantasy more so in the last season and a half with more dragons and more white walkers and more, you know, unbelievable. but as far as last night goes and we can get into the detail, I liked it.

I mean, I missed the one thing that it didn't deliver to me last night because I was expecting Danny to die last night. The only other thing, and I thought about this after the fact, that it didn't provide last night was a shocking moment that may have made all of us do what we've done many times in the past, as Game of Thrones fans said, oh my God, that person just died. And I will tell you the opportunity it had. Drogon could have, not torched, because that would have been too predictable,

could have just eaten John right there in the moment. That would have been one of those moments that we would have been talking about. Like that would have been such a Game of Thrones moment. As John is sitting there after stabbing Danny, and Drogon shows up, and he's staring John down, and then leaves John alone and picks Danny up and flies off to somewhere. We don't know where. But imagine, because think about it,

John ends up on the night's north of the wall now. He ends up on the wall back with the Knights Watch at Castle Black. Like, so what? I mean, that was sort of predictable. What if Drogon had just chopped John then in there? That would have left us with one more of those red wedding moments, which would have been phenomenal. And I thought about that last night. Maybe someone else has suggested it.

I don't know. But that was what was missing from last night because I didn't find Danny's death to be shocking at all. Even in the moment, like I was expecting after the conversation with Tyrion, I was then thinking, John's the favorite here, unless somehow Aria comes in and gets green eyes. Which we never got to completion. But overall, just before we get into more detailed conversation, this show is an all-time favorite for me with Breaking Bad. And I, last night, even though there wasn't that shocking moment, and perhaps it was too satisfying in terms of the way it ended for so many of my favorite characters. Like, I'm so happy for Sonsa.

I'm happy for John to a certain degree. really happy for Tyrion. You know, the Aria thing. It seems a bit Aria to just go off and do her own thing. But, you know, Bran ending up as King, I know he was a heavy favorite. Vegas had that right from the beginning. It was almost too perfect of an ending. And I guess that's where the criticism is.

But overall, I was satisfied. And once again, this season has provided the wrap-up to certain relationships that have been very emotional to watch, including Tyrion uncovering Jamie and Circe last night, which I'll get into in more detail. But those are my high-level macro thoughts. I love the show in this last season of six episodes and the series finale.

It wasn't awful enough to ever change the way I'll feel about the show. I don't need a redo. Oh, I definitely don't. I, you know, I think we've been somewhat on the same page. I think I've been a little lower on the season than you have been throughout the season. But I definitely am not of the opinion that this is a disaster. This is the worst season in TV history history. This is all those things. I will say what you said about the shocking thing. I actually philosophically don't agree with when it comes to a series finale. A series finale should be tying up everything. It should be, you shouldn't, if you have a. shocking moment in the finale. It probably means you messed up along the way that you would need a shocking moment in the finale because, you know, this should be kind of tying up everything together. But that could have been the ultimate sacrifice for John. It could have been.

Who always tried to do the right thing. I'm not saying that you couldn't have had him die there. And I think it would have made a lot of sense for him to die there, you know, in a number of ways. I just don't think you necessarily need the shocking moment, the huge moment to go out on. You know, you look at how this series has been formatted. The season fineries have all pretty much been, with the exception of Circe blowing up the sept. It's usually been the second to last episode has been the big moment.

You get the fallout in the finale. And that's kind of the HBO model. It's really the TV model when you think about it, usually get that fall. Unless you have a big thing to move over to the next season, it's the finalees are wrapping up. If you had that huge moment, it's usually slightly before the finale. So that didn't bother me as much as it seemed to bother you. I'll tell you what, the biggest complaint I have about the final season will go back to the Battle of Winterfell. It just was, I thought, a very difficult episode to watch.

And I'm still confused as to why they made you struggle or made a lot of us struggle with that. But there were incredible moments last night. First of all, you know, Tyrion finding Jamie and Circe under the rubble was powerful. Because first of all, it was the emotion of seeing both Searcy and Jamie together, you know, buried underneath the rubble, you know, dead. But, you know, we know Tyrian loved his brother very much. But, you know, I think he always also had feelings for Searcy. You know, how many times did we hear Tyrion over the years talk about her love for her children? Like this is a positive light that he wants to cast on his evil sister, that she loves her children and she'd do anything for her children.

And I think, you know, during this last season, what I sort of came to the conclusion about last night, maybe even building up, maybe last week as well, is if you think about all the advice that he was wrong on with Danny, it was always in the protection of King's Landing. And Cersie, to a certain degree. Like, you know, he's always had Kings Landing and his Lannister blood on his mind, which is probably why he ended up giving a lot of bad advice along the way. Although the advice on how to save all the innocent people in King's Landing was good advice that was just ignored by the Mad King's daughter, who went mad. But I thought that that was really Tyrion last night was really so much about Tyrion And that was I'm going to say The best thing about last night's episode

Was that they decided to center it around Tyrion That was the best decision they could have made Because I feel like if you make that more about John If you make that more about one of the other characters They can't carry it as well as Peter Dinklage could have That may be true Because you know what, Kit Harrington couldn't have I mean, I understand.

And that's not about Kit Harrington. That's that Peter Dinklage is the best actor on that show right now. Oh, I think he's been the best actor on. I think he and Lena Heady have been the two best. And that's what I said right now. You could make a case for Heady. Yeah. That they've been the two best since the show started.

And really, you know, John, until he did the right thing last night, I think he did, he was a weak character this year. You know, his sisters were always right. He was wrong. but, you know, this was someone who obviously fought, was strong, and made a lot of really, made decisions from the heart that were good decisions. Like he always aired on the side of good. John was a good character, but I didn't think that Kid Harrington was a great actor. Yeah, I'll agree with that. There are several people not who, like, I don't think Kid Harrington's a bad actor by any stretch, but he can't carry a scene the way that a Peter Dinklage that Alina Hedy that some of the characters, Tywin,

I'm forgetting that actor's name. Tim and Lannister was great. But overall, there are several characters like that, several actors, actresses, who are perfectly fine in that role, but aren't necessarily someone who you want to really carry emotional episodes with. So the idea to pivot it was the best decision they could have made it. I thought that really elevated the episode in my eyes. All right, I'm just going to rip through a bunch of things and just you jump in when you want to jump in.

First of all, I thought I loved it when Aria threatened Yara. That was awesome. When Yara basically said John should die, and she said, if you threaten my brother one more time, I'm going to slit your throat. That was awesome. By the way, that whole jump from, you know, John killing Danny to, you know, this council with John locked up. And like it's really a hard jump. It's a hard leap to think that gray worm didn't kill John or that John wasn't killed by somebody. That bothered me a little bit.

That was the thing. I mean, first of all, going back to that, where did all those unsullied come from? I have no. Exactly. Exactly. Where did they come from? But go ahead. Beyond that, yes, I agree that John Living doesn't make any sense based on what we had

presented. Yeah, you can say that gray worm and all of them had been disenfellings. oriented by DeNaris's death. But, like, these are people who just massacred a city because of the queen. Like, they're not going to kill John. And I hated all so early in the show when John watched, you know, his grayworms slit the throat of, you know, some of the Lannister Army. I just didn't, John just was coming off as weak.

And I know it was a difficult position to be in, but ultimately, Tery and, you know, talked him into doing the right thing. But there were a couple of things. So the ARIA thing with Yara, I thought was great. To see the Tully guy get laughed off the stage and told to basically get back, sit down by Sonsa was great. Sam's idea of democracy was getting laughed at was hysterical. Back to Danny's speech to the Uncellied and the Dithraki, and I thought she was awesome. She was very good last night.

How about that shot walking up to that with Drogon? With the wings. I've seen that meme a hundred times. I just think, you know, back to what we were just talking about before, I think we clearly needed more after her death. Like the jump from her death and Drogon burning down the iron throne, you know, and then picking her up and flying away to this group meeting with all the kingdoms present and Greyworm wanting to execute Tyrion and John, who, you know,

was at that point already caught and imprisoned. It was just too big of a jump. Like there was too much to see happen between that and where we were. Like too much more between those two events. And again, to me, I can't imagine that somebody came upon the blood of Danny and John standing there. And that they didn't, especially if it were grayworm, that John would have just been imprisoned. The whole thing, that whole part of it was a little bit ridiculous. By the way, when we get to all of these kingdoms being represented,

you know, Sonsa never wanted to go south again. Like, and there she is. And why was Brie N part of that group? Because she was with Sonsa. She was with Sonsa, but she got a vote. And Davos got a vote. Well, Davos addressed it. I don't think I got a vote.

I know. So those two were just there to be there, basically. Davos seemed to be moderating it. By the way, how about the Aaron boy, who's now a man? Like he just grew overnight. Oh, yeah. Robin Aaron. I mean, that was weird.

Yeah. I mean, granted, it wasn't overnight, but. Right. That's true. It's not overnight, I guess. In actual time it took to get to this episode. The last time that we see it saw him. He was a little boy.

You know, Bran is there. Tyrion makes his speech, which was awesome. And we end up with the plan that everybody, you know, basically, you know, I think saw coming or Vegas saw coming, which is. Pran being king and Sonsa remaining queen of the north. I loved when she, that one spot where she said, you know, we're going to remain independent. Were you expecting that? I was. I was. But this was one of, again, one of those things where it just stretches like the world they've created. It broke a bunch of rules. So you have representatives from all the kingdoms there, two of which in Dorn and the

Iron Islands have repeatedly and repeatedly tried to leave this. seven kingdoms and didn't want to be under it. You have the Norse say, okay, we're leaving, and then they're cool with staying. That was one of the things that just in the world they've created didn't make any sense. Yeah, I mean, I guess I just expected. I mean, the way Sonsa handled it was the right way, and you can see

Aria approve and Tyrion approves, and everybody, you know, sort of looking at her, and you end up with six kingdoms instead of seven kingdoms, which will be led by King Bran the Broken, which I thought was sort of a silly description of him. Um, you know, and by the way, just on brand, I know that he was the favorite and a lot of you saw that coming and it wasn't necessarily my choice. But remember, this is a guy that says he doesn't want, that he can't rule, that, you know, everyone has done what they were supposed to do based on what he's seen, you know, and then all of a sudden he's surprised by some of the things that happened last night.

Like, like, you know, by the way, he's the one that's going to go find Drogon because he's, you know, he's the one that's going to go find Drogon because he's. he knows where he is, but he seems surprised Viterian speech and then he doesn't. I don't know. I mean, it seemed like he didn't because he said very clearly after, why do you think I'm here? Yeah, why do you think I'm here? That's true. Ultimately, I was, that whole scene I felt was, was okay, but was a little bit unrealistic, especially because of the hard jump from John Killing Danny to all of them sitting there.

I mean, how many days past do you think between that? It said a few weeks. It seemed like about a month. Okay. John certainly looked haggard. Yeah. Yeah, he did, but Tyrion had said he had spent a few weeks. I think he either said a few or several weeks. So it seems like about a month. I agree with you. That scene fell flat for me for a number of reasons. The brand thing I don't like. They actually pulled it off a little better than I expected if that was going to be the case.

Well, it's because of the way Tyrion described what the next king should be. Exactly, but even then, like, he doesn't, you know, presumably he saw what was about to happen at King's Landing and he didn't lift a finger to stop it. I know. Does he care about people? Why is he a good? And the thing about, you know, stories bring people together, like, people have better stories than Brand. I'm sorry, Arya should be raising her hands like, yeah, my story was better. Well, Sonsa, too.

Yeah, exactly. So that, that bothered me. The fact that everybody was on board with Brand so quickly when they've spent, you know, centuries, fighting. over it fell flat to me. There was one other thing that really fell flat to me about it. Let me pull up my notes really quickly here. Oh, yeah. So the idea that Tyrion had, this great breaking the wheel thing where, you know, every

time a ruler dies, we're going to come to this spot and we're going to create. All that does is guarantee a civil war every time a ruler dies. Like that's really, really silly. Right. Well, I mean, there were a lot of things that sort of left it to the imagination of what it would be like. First of all, was it lost on anybody else? Or maybe it was lost on anybody else, but not necessarily to me that Drogon's still out there. Like, where did he go?

Meantime, John's north of the wall looking for something. What the hell is he looking for, walking through the forest? It seemed like he might just settle with him. And did we forget that he's still the rightful heir to the throne? Well, there is no rightful heir to the throne anymore. But the rightful heir to the throne thing only applied if you believed that the Targaryens are the rightful rulers. Well, okay, fair enough. There is no throne, actually.

There's no throne and there, you know, again. I thought it was strange that Sam seemed okay with everything when John was really what he wanted in terms of John being King. But Brand, he gets along with Brand too. But we got a lot of loose, like there are loose ends. What's John, where's Drogon, where's Aria going? What is she going to discover? What's John doing, you know, moving, you know, into the forest? What happens to the Dithraki and with grayworm?

I'm not saying that, you know, the sequel is coming soon, but there's some loose ends to tie up. By the way, why couldn't John just hang out in the north if the north is its own country and not part of the six kingdoms? Sure. Well, he basically said to Aria, you can come see me. Who's going to stop you? Well, who's going to, but why can't he? he just live at Winterfell. Why can't he marry and have kids?

Well, if he took the black, then he would, you know, that's part of the whole taking the black. But again, why is he taking the black? That was another weird thing where it's like, okay, that was a compromise with gray worm, but gray worm and the threat you are leaving. All of the compromising with gray worm just seemed out of place to me. They made gray worm, I think, too significant. And if gray worm were going to really do what was right by Danny, he would have,

gone on a tear. He would have killed John. He would have killed Tyrion. They wouldn't have been imprisoned. That was a little bit too much. I'm just going through my notes as we're sitting here rambling because we are sort of rambling. But how about Tyrion?

Did you feel that he admitted that he loved Danny in a way that was beyond just she would make the best queen? Because remember his reaction? Remember when John and Dineris first slept together at the end of season seven? and Tyrion's sitting there watching him as he goes in the room in sort of a jealous way. Yeah, and then what do you say is like, you did it better than me or did it more successful or something like that? We haven't talked about the fact that Tyrion's the hand of the king and didn't want it, but obviously, Tyrion's essentially going to run the Six Kingdoms.

You know, and obviously he's going to be very friendly to Winterfell and Sansa. The Brienne spot when she's writing about Jamie, I saw somebody tweet, Brien changing Jamie's Wikipedia page which was funny but I thought that I loved that part I did too

and Pod coming out with the gold cloak as well And no doubt John's goodbye to his siblings which really aren't his siblings but his siblings

in terms of the way he grew up was choke you up stuff I mean you know at first when Tyrion's telling him what his punishment is and he is going to you know head north and I mean I'm sure many people are saying well that's where John sort of should be but at the same time you know being a part you know

his two siblings had to agree to it his three siblings had to agree to it the king and his two sisters cousins really and you know Sonsa starts off by saying will you forgive me and he says there's no better, you know, I'm paraphrasing, there's no better person than Ned Stark's daughter to rule the North. And then the goodbye with Aria was really, I mean, she's got tears coming out of her eyes. And that relationship, when you think about how, you know, it took until this season in what, episode two,

or episode one, for them to see each other for the first time since episode one overall. In one episode, you realize the relationship that they had that John and Aria had. And then him bending the knee to his brother, his cousin, and the king. And that was, I loved that whole scene. That whole scene was great. It was the perfect goodbye. Although, again, like you pointed out, he's not that far away from Sansa.

and hypothetically there should be no reason why he can't go chill with sansa for a long like he could live there right he could live there and certainly um the a brand can come visit and aria wherever she her travels take her might take her back north one day like you hope that that you hope that that that family the starks which have been through unbelievable hell and you've got essentially the four survivors and you know John is a Stark, even though he's a cousin, not a sibling, not a bastard sibling, but that the relationships between them are really special to this show. And you sort of hope that down the road they'll be back together somehow, that that wasn't goodbye forever. But anyway, I don't know, I guess, you know, by the way, the Bron was, like the whole thing about the brothels and him being master of coin seemed a little bit ridiculous. It almost seemed like a sitcom setting. Yeah.

Like that last... But a lot of those sit downs have made us laugh in much more profound ways. Absolutely. I did, by the way, even though I'm complaining about like John going up to the wall is kind of silly from a why is it happening, the reunion with Tormond and with ghosts, we finally got that pet. Of course. Which was predictable.

And was, I don't know, it was sort of too brief. And by the way, we don't really... We see he and Torman together, but it wasn't much of a reunion. It was a, I, the show goes out with John Sonsa and Aria. That's the way it goes out. Yes. With John going north, Aria going west, and Sonsa getting her crown. Yes.

And everybody chanting Queen of the North. I don't know. I was fine with it last night. I didn't, I mean, if you asked me, you know, about changes. we've gone through some of them. I'm sure that they could have done it better. I'm sure there could have been more shock. I'm sure there could have been a less perfect ending or a less predictable ending.

But I don't know. I just, I love that show and I'm going to miss that show. But I will definitely, that's a show for me, that there are certain episodes that I will always go back and watch over and over again. And to be honest with you, there are episodes from this final season that I'll watch over and over again.

I enjoyed, as I told you, I enjoyed the first two shows of this final season. season. You know, a lot of reunions, a lot of emotional dialogue, a lot of getting ready for the war. I enjoyed the first two, but then again, we were getting rushed and we could see it coming that the final four were going to be condensed. I think that overall, the biggest disappointment of the season is going into this season. They had so many things that they had seemingly set up. You had Azora High, the Prince

that was promised, all these prophecies... By the way, we got the Prince of Dorn. Yeah, we did get the Prince of Dorn. You know, we got all these things. We got, you know, John is a Targaryen didn't really end up mattering as all. Like his heritage didn't end up meaning anything. Because he didn't want any of it. He was reluctant. And I understand that.

But then, you know, you go back to, well, then what was the purpose of it at the other ventures to show that not all Targaryans are bad? What was the purpose of brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes with are you? What was the purpose of that? What was the purpose of brand being able to go back and affect Hodor in the past if you're not going to pull that to? There were so many things that they had kind of laid groundwork for that they never came back to in the final season and that ended up being relatively meaningless. And so from that standpoint, that to me was the biggest disappointment of this season overall. As far as the what actually happened

in this season, I'm fine with it. I'm not going to say it's the greatest ever finale or even anywhere close to it, but for the people who are up in arms over it, I understand if you're disappointed that they didn't, you know, what this show had been about was the relationships between people and then a lot of this prophecy stuff, and none of it ended up coming together at the end. You know what, if I were to just netted out about this final season, I would say that I'm very happy that three of my favorite characters since the beginning of this show, Tyrion, Sonsa, and Aria all ended up with really good endings.

you know, in just endings, and I'm glad none of them died. I think I would have been okay had John been killed at some point. At the same time, one of my other favorite characters on the show, I think was done a disservice in this final season, and that's CERC. Ultimately, her character was so awesome for so long, and she barely had more than, I don't know, a dozen scenes in this last season, and her death was unsatisfying to most. She was cowering in, you know,

under, you know, as the Red Keep was crumbling on top of her and her brother. It just, the whole thing with Yaron in the first couple of episodes was just, it was off-putting because they turned him into something more significant than he had ever been. There could have been a better final season for Searcy, a much better final season. And there wasn't. I mean, what was the best moment of the final season with her? There wasn't one.

No. There wasn't one, you know, piece of dialogue. I wanted elephants. Yeah, I wanted elephants. Like, you didn't bring me elephants. I'm disappointed. Well, they don't travel well on boats. I guess the line about earning a queen if you want, you know, that was probably the best line.

Yeah. Anyway, well, that's it. Until the spin-offs come out. What are the I mean, Ari has got to be one of the spinoffs. I mean, it sounds like most of the spinoff, at least the plan right now, we're going to be kind of prequely stuff. History of the Targary and stuff. I'm not really that interested in that.

Well, you know, I will be. You will be when it comes out. But I'm much more interested in finding out what happens after last night. Here's the question. Why wouldn't you just continue Game of Thrones if that's going to, you know? I understand. So I assume at least the first spinoff will be, you know, maybe something with the Targaryian Civil War.

or maybe something with Agon conquering Westeros, something along those lines. But it wouldn't shock me if we get Aria down the line a little bit. Yeah, Aria's travels into something that we can't even imagine, you know, what's west of Westrose. We don't know the maps end there. So that could be a whole, that could really actually be a standalone thing

that has nothing to do with Thrones potentially, or a significant part of it. I am just interested in the whole ending to John. like traveling north by the way I thought the wall got pretty much destroyed it was just that one section of the wall okay well we saw like a perfect intact wall there yeah I mean that it wasn't Castle Black

it was East Watch that got blown up so Castle Black your maps are better than mine that's right you do know your maps you know your Game of Thrones maps alright I guess did we miss anything I'm sure we did you can let us know what we missed and I'm sure we'll think of something between now and tomorrow, they'll probably be one more day of just cleaning up loose ends. But overall, I loved the show and I was fine with the last season, even though there were things that were rushed and perhaps could have been done differently. But I would

not have been on that petition to redo the final season. Oh, I'm absolutely with you there. Disappointing things overall, but looking at it in a bubble as a show, I'd say, I'd say I enjoyed it more than I didn't enjoy it. Last thing, ran into multiple people over the weekend. One person that said to me, you know, big fan of the show, really love listening to you and Cooley together. And I said, well, it's been a while since we were together, but I'm doing a podcast. And he's like, oh, you're not on 980 anymore?

And I go, nope, we left there in August. And he said, oh, man, you know, I just, I loved you and Cooley together, listened to all the time and I said, here's how you do a podcast. He had his phone with him. He had never listened to a podcast before. He had an iPhone and I went right to the purple icon that says podcasts on it. You just click it, search Kevin Sheehan's show and it'll show up. And then I talked to somebody else over the weekend who said that they really enjoy the podcast, love listening to the show, mostly because they can hear it more often and when they want to hear it, but that the AM signal doesn't get in the way of it, but that they listen through the website.

And a lot of you do, and so please mention to others that, for whatever reason, struggle with just a podcast via their phone, tell them they can go to the Kevin Sheehan Show.com and listen there. We do have a, you know, not a majority percentage. I mean, the significant majority of you listen via a podcast platform, most of you on iTunes or Apple Podcasts, a lot of you on Google Play and Spotify, but we do have, you know, certainly, you know, one out of every five or six listening via the website, which I'm glad we decided to do. Don't forget, rate us and review us on iTunes if you haven't done that.

And also subscribe if you haven't done that. That really helps us. It doesn't cost you anything. Have a great day.