The Kevin Sheehan Show - Smoot On Forbes & More

Episode Date: October 4, 2023

Kevin was joined by Fred Smoot to talk about why Emmanuel Forbes struggled on Sunday in Philly. Plenty on Sam Howell, Eric Bieniemy, the 2-point conversion decision, and then a preview and prediction from Smoot on tomorrow night's Commanders' game against the Bears.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The presenting sponsor of this podcast is Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. Mention my name, Kevin Sheehan, and they will take good care of you.

Right now, buy two, get too free with no limit. Plus, no money down, no payments, and no interest for two full years. 660 Nation or windownation.com. No Cooley on the show today with film breakdown. He had a wrestling team commitment. Fred Smoot will be on the show instead. Cooley did say that he would be able to join us on Friday after the game tomorrow night. Let me also give you a heads up.

I am planning on doing a quick 30-minute post-game show at the end of the game. tomorrow night and getting that out much sooner than I've been getting the day after game podcast out. Then we'll do something on later Friday as well with Cooley that you can listen to later Friday and over the weekend. But my plan right now is following the game tomorrow night to do a quick 30 to 40 minutes of a post game on the game with the Bears, which, yeah, let's face it. This is a rather important game tomorrow night. I talked a little bit about it, I think, with Tommy yesterday. It's not that it's must win. I hate to look at the schedule, but with Atlanta and the Giants coming up after tomorrow night, this is such a silly game to

play because they're not good enough to just assume that they're better than the next three teams they play. They haven't earned that right yet. But there is. is an opportunity here in the in the short term with Chicago, Atlanta, and New York to play in three games that are winnable. So winning two of the next three seems important if they're going to be a playoff contender this year. And I think they can be in the NFC. It is a bit wide open in the NFC. I mean, the one thing to consider is that in their division, sides two of the three really good teams right now in the NFC. Maybe Detroit is a fourth really good team.

But after that, you've got, you know, whoever the NFC South winner is, and then probably two more wildcards. You know, Dallas or Philadelphia probably snags one of them. It's early to be doing this, to be doing playoff scenarios. And then, you know, there are two more. Seattle seems like a pretty good team. They're going to be in the hunt all year long. But after that, man, I mean, you know, the Giants right now are struggling.

They don't have their best players. I'm going to tell you right now, don't, you know, don't chalk up two victories against the Giants this year quite yet. They've played the last couple of games without Saquan Barkley, without Andrew Thomas. They missed their center for pretty much the entire game the other night. They've been really banged up. And it's, you know, these are division games. But the Giants aren't very good. Green Bay really isn't that good.

I mean, Detroit kind of exposed that. Minnesota is really bad on defense. Chicago, we're going to find out more about them. The three teams, other than the NFC South winner, you don't expect to be in the wild card race. And then, you know, the Cardinals and the Rams, I think the Rams are much better than people thought. But Washington's going to be in the wild cardinals.

the mix. You know, I gave out 8, 8, and 1 again, mostly with tongue placed firmly in cheek because I predicted it, predicted it last year and it came true. But basically the point was, I think they're going to hover around 500 for a lot of the year, and they're just not, you know, bad enough going into the season to be much less than, you know, a 7 or an 8 win team. And, you know, if everything breaks right, they could be, you know, a bit better than 8, 8 and 1. a bit better than 500. And I think that's what we've seen here. You know, we've seen, you know, kind of a subpar game,

and then a pretty good game, and then an atrocious game, and then a very good game. A game they lost, but man, doesn't it feel in our conversations since late Sunday, like there's so much more to be encouraged by, which there was? I think many people think they won the game with the way we've been talking about it. But if this kind of performance continues, and maybe they can even out some of the really bad moments. And look, that bad moment did come against debatably one of the two or three best teams in the NFL in Buffalo.

It's very possible that Buffalo right now is the best team in the NFL since that Monday night opener. They've been dominant both sides of the ball. By the way, they get Von Miller back too. I think this coming weekend against Jacksonville in the international game. you know, if they're hovering, you know, in that 500 area, game over, game under, they're in the mix in the NFC for that six or seven spot when all is sudden done. It might be the seven spot. And by the way, I'm not discounting division, you know, potential here, winning the division.

I mean, they have not played the Cowboys. And they played the Eagles once and it was on the road and it went to overtime. They get the Eagles at home. They get two games against the Cowboys. I just think that the Cowboys and Eagles are better football teams. I mean, Washington went toe to toe with Philadelphia Sunday on their field. I don't think Philadelphia is quite now what they'll be later, although I did think that was the best I've seen Philadelphia all season long.

But if you're going to be one of those teams, these next three weeks at least, you know, as they present themselves today, appear to be opportunities to harvest a couple of nuts, as Eddie Jordan once said. It'd be great to harvest three nuts, but tomorrow night's the one you've got to get first. And I think Chicago will come in here hungry. I had Courtney Cronin who covers the Bears for ESPN. She's the John Kime equivalent for ESPN. I had Courtney on the radio show today. And one of the things I really wanted to find out from Courtney is, are we getting a team here tomorrow night that is about to implode?

You know, that is 0 and 4. There have been issues between Justin Fields and their offensive coordinator, Luke Getsey. There is discussion that Matt Everflus, the head coach, could be fired as soon as tomorrow night after the game because, for all intents and purposes, it's a mini-bye week playing on Thursday night football. you know, is that, are we getting a team that's basically hanging on by a thread coming in here and nobody's really interested in some of the, you know, staff that are here and they wouldn't mind a change, or are we getting a hungry team? Are we getting a team that played their best game of the year on Sunday, albeit against Denver? And Courtney really emphasized that she felt that they were really encouraged with their performance Sunday. They felt they

they gave a game away. They were at 28 to 7 in that game, and they lost 31 to 28, but that it was their best game offensively. It was Justin Fields' best game, and that there was a lot to take out of that that was good and that they feel better about themselves heading into Washington tomorrow night. It's funny. Chicago and Washington both lost last weekend, both lost by three points in high-scoring games, 34, 31 in overtime for Washington. 31-28 Chicago lost to Denver. Chicago blew a 28-7 lead. Washington had a 10-point lead in the first half in Philadelphia, but not a 28-to-7, what seemed like an insurmountable lead. But it seems like, at least after getting the story from Courtney about the Bears, you've got two teams coming off some of the most encouraging losses of the year. I think short week NFL Thursday night games tend to be very unpredictable, and we'll see.

I was kind of hoping to hear that Chicago would be coming in here ready to throw in the towel on Eberfluse and Getzi and the whole staff and that this thing was about to end. By the way, you know, at the beginning of the year, we talked about how the Cardinals seemed to be in the Caleb Williams sweeper. stakes position this year. And they've, you know, they're one and three, but man, they have been really, really competitive, you know, having leads against Washington and the Giants, losing those games, beating the Cowboys, being down to the 49ers, 21 to 16 in the third quarter. That was a much tougher test. Final score didn't look at, but it was during the game. But before the season, I mocked Arizona, you know, getting rid of Colt McCoy and going with Joshua Dobbs against Washington.

To me, that seemed like an organizational sign that they were, you know, looking at next year's draft. But Dobbs has played well, and they've played well. And so Arizona owns Houston's first round pick and their own. And before the season started four weeks ago, the projected top two picks in the 2020, draft were Arizona, Arizona, because Arizona and Houston were supposed to be the worst teams in the league heading into the year. Well, Houston's two and two and looks so much better than anybody could have thought. Arizona's one and three. Instead, what you get now four weeks into the season when you look at the projected 2024 draft order is you get Chicago 1 and Chicago 2. Why?

because Chicago has Carolina's first round pick in the trade that allowed Carolina to draft Bryce Young, who may not have been the right pick. C.J. Stroud may have been the right pick. It's too early to tell. But Chicago, if they lose tomorrow night and are 0 and 5 and their season is truly over, they could be headed towards the top two picks in the draft. And even though they've got Justin Fields, and some people still believe in Justin Fields, I do to a certain degree. By the way, I believe in Justin Fields a little bit more in terms of his upside than I do in Daniel Jones. A lot of you tweeted me because Tommy presented the question about would you right now trade Daniel Jones for Sam Hal. One of the things I didn't clarify is I don't want to take on Daniel Jones's contract.

It was more a player for a player. I still think Daniel Jones can play in the right setting. I do. I may be in the minority. That's fine. I don't know about Sam Hal yet. I'm encouraged by what I've seen with Sam Hal in two different games. And in one game, not so much, but more good than bad so far with Sam Hal.

But, you know, I would take bird in hand, which is, I think Daniel Jones, with the right team around them and the right system, et cetera, is a top half of the league's starting quarterback. I don't know that about Sam Hal yet. Justin Fields, though, I still believe has a big ceiling. I do. I liked him coming out. Remember, there was discussions about Washington potentially making the trade up to draft them. I was in favor of that. But if the bears get to the end of the year and have the top two picks, see you, Justin, because Caleb Williams looks like Patrick Mahomes. Anyway, I don't know about tomorrow night, man. I don't have a good feeling for it right now. I made tomorrow. That line is dropping. It's down to five and a half and six. It got all the way up to seven. that's telling you that there is some sharp money on Chicago bringing it down. And I think, you know, part of it may be they sense that Chicago still feels like he can, you know,

go have itself a season or at least get back into the mix with a couple of wins. They play Washington tomorrow night. They play Minnesota at home at Soldier Field next week. You know, they may be looking at their schedule saying, all right, we're 0 and 4, but we got Washington, we got Minnesota and then we got the Raiders and maybe we can get back into this thing and what right now isn't a great division although Detroit looks pretty good but tomorrow night might end that

and we'll see tomorrow I will have a prediction on the game I can tell you it is definitely leaning in the direction of a smell test game and that would be a selection of the Chicago Bears the public is hammering Washington in this game, and as I just told you, as of now, and I'll have more information tomorrow,

there is sharp money on Chicago that has dropped that line from seven down to six and five and a half in several spots, including, by the way, my bookie, where it is minus six right now. But remember, the other day, it was seven. My bookie, they reached out to me yesterday, and they said, we want to do what we did last, week, another week. So 110% deposit bonus when you use my promo code, Kevin DC, at my bookie.com. This is unheard of. They're still doing it in recognition of the, you know, the 2-0 start, even though they're 2-2-now. But, by the way, the line literally just changed as I was on my, my bookie screen. Chicago's now a five and a half point underdog at MyBooky.

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So I wanted to read a quick, a tweet and an email to start the show. And then I want to talk a little bit about Emmanuel Forbes, which I will then continue the conversation with Fred Smooth about. So this came from Seby. Seby wrote, Sheehan, you didn't include in your game recap the clear false start on the tush push play in over time. time. Why? I think I did mention it, but I didn't obsess about it, Seby, because as I mentioned on Monday, everybody was cheating on that play. Did you watch that play? Like, it was, it may have

been John Allen or Duran Payne, I think it was one of the two, had their hand underneath the ball. They were off sides. They had movement pre-snap, but Washington looked off sides. I don't think anybody was legal on that play. I mean, I don't think either team was completely legal on that play. Like, it can't be legal to have your hand underneath the football if you're a defensive player, can it? I don't think so. I don't love that play, as I've discussed before, and I do think it will be addressed at the end of the year.

This is from Messi. Messy emailed me. And this was something, I think, that came up yesterday on the show. I know it came up on the radio show. But Messi wrote, I appreciate the conversation about Ron's decision to go for two. But Kevin, it's simple math. Two yards versus 75 yards. I think the answer is 75 is much harder, especially if you're gassed.

That's a good point there at the end, you know? Like extended football, if you're really gassed, should be harder. I address this yesterday and I'm going to do it again, but just one more time. And then we are done with the two-point conversion, although I'll probably ask Fred about it. I am very capable of understanding that two yards is less than 75 yards. Are you able, messy, to comprehend the differences between the two-yard two-point conversion and the 75-yard drive in overtime. First of all, it's not always 75 yards.

I mean, if the kick goes through the end zone, you start up to 25 at 75 yards to get a touchdown. It's less than that to get a field goal. It's even less than that if you decide to punt. This one I don't understand why some of you are struggling with this. I know you think it's a mic drop moment. It's not like these two situations are completely different. All right. First, one play versus lots of plays potentially.

When you have a two-point conversion, it's one play to go two yards. If you told me that I have one play to go two yards or one play to go 75 yards, well, of course I would take the two yards. But it's not one play to go 75 yards. Okay? It is many plays to go 75 yards or even less than. 75 yards. And, you know, you may not even get the ball first.

You may be on defense first. But whatever, the point is, it's extended football. It's timed football. It's not an untimed one-play scenario. It's 10 minutes. You have multiple plays. When that first down from the 25-yard line ends, and you're not in the other team's end zone, the game doesn't end.

So it's just completely different. I think you understand that. Like one play ends the game. The other situation doesn't. And by the way, if you get stopped, the game isn't over. You pun it. And the other team then takes the field and you get to play on defense. I know most of you get it.

But I'm very, I'm amused by how many of you think this is like a mic drop moment. Like, you know, I appreciate the conversation, but it's simple math. I think the answer is 75 is much harder, you know, than two. Oh, yeah, if we're talking about one play, it is. Okay, so before we get to Smoot, a few things. the conversation about Emmanuel Forbes from the game on Sunday, I know that I promise you I'd go back and look at how many times he traveled with A.J. Brown versus didn't.

I can just tell you, I know he wasn't on A.J. Brown the whole game. I didn't go back and watch. I didn't. And I know what the numbers were. And I said, you know, in my game recap, Forbes really struggled. There's no doubt. What's interesting is Cooley, after watching the game, and you probably heard it on Monday, said, you know, Forbes got beat a lot, but he thought, you know, it wasn't, I forget what he said, but basically he was near the play, like he had a chance to make plays. Forbes in four games has been targeted 25 times, and he's allowed 18 catches for a league high, 356 yards per pro football focus. opposing quarterbacks have a 124.2 passer rating when targeting him, and receivers have collected

79 yards after the catch against him. So look, all of the numbers, especially the advanced numbers, do not paint the picture of Emmanuel Forbes getting off to a really good start. If I didn't know what the numbers were, I would know that he struggled against Philadelphia. I would know that there was a moment or two where he was matched up against Diggs in the Buffalo game and got beat. But I actually overall, just watching the game, don't feel like Emmanuel Forbes has been outmatched. Like it's so obvious he can't play through four games. I mean, first of all, for crying out loud, it's four games. Stop.

And by the way, Steph Diggs and A.J. Brown, I think the better question, and I'm going to ask Fred this, is why was he on A.J. Brown as much as he was. And again, I don't have the exact answer to that. He was on A.J. Brown a lot. And he was on A.J. Brown on different sides of the field. It's very possible, I don't know if any of you have considered this, that Jack just thought that was his best matchup with A.J. Brown because of Forbes's length. And his ball, you know, his ball skills, his playmaking ability. You know, and right now they've got, you know, St. Juice working in the slot, so it's either him or Fuller. I actually think Fuller, and I mentioned this the other day, I thought Fuller played okay on Sunday, not as well as St. Juice, but I think Fuller's been pretty good this year. And that's from a man, Pauley, who just could not stand Fuller last year. And we got into some arguments about Fuller last year, and I said, I think he's okay.

but Polly didn't. Actually, Polly did admit, this is the 757 Polly, did admit that he thought Fuller had played well, I think, a couple of weeks ago. But I don't know what the actual answer is. Maybe Fred does. We'll ask Fred. But maybe Jack just thought, this is my best matchup. Or maybe it had to do with something with the way they wanted to cover, you know, the other receivers. or the run game perhaps. Maybe it had something to do with that because there was an emphasis on stopping Philadelphia from running it down their throat like they had done in their previous two games against Tampa Bay and Minnesota. I don't know.

Fred's going to have answers, I would imagine, about that. But it's just kind of too early, I think. And by the way, I'm not suggesting that any of you are giving up. But the criticism of Forbes, if you didn't know this, led to him deactivating or actually just getting rid of Twitter altogether. I talked a little bit about this on radio. Look, I don't like sensitivity to criticism in my favorite teams and my favorite players. I mean, you got to understand it's big boy football and you're getting paid a lot.

And somebody on radio put it this morning, you know, when you get the bag, you got to put up with the nag. it's very possible that maybe he just decided once and for all this isn't for me. I'm going to, you know, I'm off of this thing. And by the way, somebody pointed this out. It was a great point that somebody made, because we took calls on this on radio today. Somebody said, maybe it was just that he was fearful that he'd say something or write something or tweet something back that just would get him in trouble or be stupid. And he just didn't want the temptation. That's maybe, maybe. I don't know. I just would ignore all of it and just The bottom line with him is he's just got to focus on becoming the kind of player that I think everybody believes he can become.

I mean, Witherspoon looked amazing the other night for Seattle. Christian Gonzalez was playing great. He got hurt. I think they're going to be good with Forbes. I like some of what I've seen with Forbes so far. Look, we're living in a day and age where everything gets measured and sometimes not accurately, or sometimes when I say not accurately, not based on understanding what the responsibility, was to begin with. We all saw what happened Sunday.

Emmanuel Forbes had a very difficult day. That was tough to watch. But at the same time, like Cooley said, and I think it's a good point. I remember Doc saying this about, I forget who it was now at Corner. It may have been William Jackson, although I don't think it was William Jackson.

But he said, look, you know, When you go up against great receivers and great quarterbacks, you're going to get beat. Corners are going to get beat, and sometimes more than you would like. The issue is, are they there to make the play? And the other guy just, the other two guys, the quarterback and the receiver, just made great throws, great catches. There was some of that on Sunday, certainly with the Devante Smith catch. Yeah. That leads me to this before we get to Fred.

So yesterday during Ron's press conference, Ron was asked about Juan Martin not getting any snaps so far this year. Their second round pick, Juan Martin from Illinois, by the way, played with Witherspoon at Illinois in the same secondary. God, imagine that secondary last year. Illinois was actually a pretty good defensive team, but imagine Quan Martin and Devin Witherspoon last year together. But Juan Martin hasn't played at all on defense, some special team snaps. And basically, he was kind of asked about the rest of the draft and why only Emmanuel Forbes has gotten any meaningful time. And, you know, he said, well, we got guys in front of them.

And Ben followed up standing with a question like, because he said something about Emmanuel Forbes just has to play. We just have to have him on the field. He's got to learn. And Ben said, well, why isn't that the same case with Juan Martin? And Ron said, well, we've got players at those positions. And they're young too. And it's good answer, good question, good answer. But a friend of mine texted me early this morning and said,

did you know that Juan Martin hasn't played and that Ricky Stromberg's barely, actually he said Ricky Stromberg, Braden Daniels, KJ, Henry, Chris Rodriguez, and Andre Jones haven't played at all. Only Emmanuel Forbes from their draft classes played. I know Chris Rodriguez has had some snaps. And I think Ricky Stromberg's had some snaps. But yeah. And then I just wrote back and he said, well, I mean, how can you have, you know,

seven picks in the draft and four games into the season, only one of these guys is playing. And I just said, are you serious? You really think we're going to have this conversation? Four games into the season? Like, are you insane? And then I looked at my Twitter notifications this morning, and a lot of people sent me the Ron answer on this. And like, another example of Ron can't pick talent.

I'm like, are you out of your mind? Is this really what we're going to do after this encouraging game against Philadelphia with a big game tomorrow night is talk about the 2023 draft class is a bust because four games into the season? Only one guy's playing a lot? I mean, that's just so absurd. I think most of you realize how absolutely insane that is to actually believe that that you can evaluate the 2023 Washington draft class four games into the season. You're out of your effing mind if you're going to do that.

Now, we can do that this time next year maybe, but even then it's a little bit too early, but let's wait a year. I would also point out that one of the reasons that none of these other players have gotten big time opportunities is because they have been so healthy. They just haven't had any injuries other than Chase Young on defense anyway and Logan Thomas on offense. Chase missing that first game, everybody's been healthy. And by the way, everybody playing for the most part is young. Like they were drafted and they got their opportunities and they're starting now.

like what do you want to do with KJ Henry you want to move them against one of your young proven star or very good defensive linemen I understand the offensive line guys Stromberg and Daniels with the issues they're having they obviously don't think right now they're better than what they have maybe if one of those guys gets injured they'll get an opportunity

and prove it Stromberg got an opportunity I know Stromberg played some plays, right? Because they had, was it Cosmy or Gates or somebody was out for a few plays recently? But yeah, I mean, Cameron Curl, you know, drafted. Derek Forrest drafted seventh, fifth round. They're young players. They're starting.

Would you just prefer that some of these young players, you know, would you prefer that we saw Chris Rodriguez in the backfield getting meaningful carries instead of Brian Robinson, Jr. in his second year? It's just that one, that one's, that's a good one. If it's a bit from some of you, you got me. All right, Fred Smoot up next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Fred Smoot coming up in this segment, a segment that is sponsored by our friends at Dues South Dockside in Navy Yard.

Football season's finally here. We are four weeks into the NFL season, about to start week five tomorrow night against Chicago at FedEx Field. If you're not going to the game and you're looking for a spot to watch the game, head to Duce South Dockside in Navy Yard, right on the Capitol Riverfront Boardwalk, stocked bar, draft beer, and a menu full of Do South House smoked barbecue favorites. Their waterside location is the perfect place to gather, not only tomorrow night, but all season. long. It's also a great place to host your next event. Guys, the barbecue is excellent. Head on down, do the queue at DoSouth. Menus and more at DoSouth, DC.com. As promised, Fred Smoot is joining us right now. I want to start with a guy who's one of your favorite players, a guy who you loved, shares the same alma mater with you, Mississippi State, Starkville,

and start with Emmanuel Forbes, who obviously struggled on Sunday, Fred. But I mean, my God, like, how much patience should everybody have and a guy that just started his fourth NFL game? You just said it. He's literally, what, 12 quarters old? Like, yes, he just got a, he got a lot. blessing and a lesson in the same day. And it happens to the best of us.

And it's going to happen again. It's the trial and error of playing that position. The one thing I would tell Forbes and I have talked to him about this is the one thing about the league that's different from colleges, you set yourself up to make plays by also protecting yourself. He's used to being such a great athlete he can jump around guys and make interceptions, but you can't do this because people will double move you. I was aggressive like that.

they want to double-moving me. Now you have to learn how to attack that going half and half with the body. So in case he does double-move you, he has to run through you. And that's the thing about it. He has to learn how to get himself out of trouble in the NFL. He has to learn rule number one. You have to lean on your technique when things go array. He's so used to leaning on his talent that he has to learn how to lean on his technique

when things go bad for you. Do you think Jack set him up on Sunday? Yeah, you know, what I was shocked that it was falling in AJ, but I know the history that they have, Professor, dates back to Mississippi State, Ole Miss, dates back to Starkville, where AJ is from. Yeah, it was one of those things where I'm glad my guy was up for the challenge. He learned a lot going against AJ.

He learned that great receivers in the league know how to use your athletic ability against you. faster than AJ. He's longer than AJ. AJ knows that. So AJ outshlows him. So AJ posted him up and started to play basketball with him. AJ also played mental warfare with him knowing that he could probably, if I can

get one or two catches, I can frustrate him and I can get into his head. So he got a lesson in physical, mental, and technique all on one day, but I'm actually shocked about this. I know for a fact. It didn't happen to me my rookie year. But if it

did, if I was in a situation, like that. Darrell Green, a champ Bailey with a cane to me a hard time and say, hey, you know what? We're trying to win this game. We need to switch the game playing up. Let me have this guy. I know we plan for you to have him all week, but let me take him off your plate. And I'm

shocked that a guy like St. Jude are full of Dingo do that, because then it's protecting your youth, protecting your youngster, and protecting your teammate. So it was more, it wasn't just Coach Dan Rio, which it could have been a better game plan than that. But it's also

player and players. Two things. One, I haven't gone back and watched specifically that part of the game, and I said that I would, but I haven't done it, and I'm assuming you have. He didn't travel with him the entire game. I know that there were times where he wasn't matched up on him, but do you

know, or do you have a decent guess as to how much of the time he did cover him or not? No, it was more like 60-40. He was on him 60% of the time. Mainly in the second half, he was on him a lot of the time, and why not, you know, trust him out there, go out there and see how he measures up.

I thought actually he did a great job above. He was there, Professor, listen to me. He missed another couple of interceptions. So it's one of those things where he's right there. He's not getting beat and he's not there. He's getting beat when it comes to finishing. He used to receivers not contested interceptions. He used to receive was not trying to knock down balls.

And that's what happened in NFL. He's there. He's just not finishing the play. The play with Devontay Smith wasn't a catch anyway. But he had a chance to intercept that ball. That was a catch. That was a catch. Well, if it was a catch tonight, he still had a chance to affect the player and intercept a ball.

That's what Kooley said the other day. He said, I know Fred's, he said, I know Emmanuel, was getting roasted a little bit, but he goes, I thought he did pretty well considering who he was matched up against. And, you know, like you said, like there are times when people aren't anywhere near the play. So back to why we saw that on Sunday, other than the Mississippi, Mississippi state thing, which I don't think Del Rio said, well, we're going to match up Starkville against Oxford. Why do you think he did it?

Was there a reason for him to do it? Could it have had to do with Devante Smith or stopping the run game or having Fuller and St. Juice in spots where maybe he felt like the run game may go to and he was keeping Forbes out of the run game? I'm just throwing things out there. Why do you think he did that? Well, they actually run to A.J. Brown side because he'd be the better blocker. Right.

So it had nothing to do with the run game, I would say. I would say my perfect matchup with him would have been Duvante Smil. I mean, DeMontes-Mill because it's Slim Reaper against the gingerbread man. I feel like that, the matchup that you want, and you want to get the bigger body St. Juice, the technician that's fuller, and let him go and battle against the chiseled vet. I would have thought that would have been the matcher. So I don't know the rhyme to that reason.

Maybe it was a speed factor. He wanted to get more speed on AJ Brown. Maybe he wanted to get more list on AJ Brown. But I don't know personally. It was those things like me. I matched up well against tall receivers. Sure Springs knew that. So if you notice any film you watch on us, any time we played Plexico Burris,

any tall guy, T. I was matched up against them. Because of your left. Because of my list and because I could play basketball with them. I had no problem with them. I matched up very well with them, and maybe they want to see was he a better matchup than St. Juice, I didn't fuller,

but I just think this. We all have a game plan like Mike Tyson saying until you get punched an eye. The question is, what are you going to do to counterpunch it? So me is, when they went into halftime, why not say St. Juice, hey, you need to match up with AJ. I thought that was what you want to do. And I know you ain't trying to lose confidence in the guy,

but putting them in that situation, waiting all game long, especially when you're talking about Philadelphia and Jayland Hurts putting the ball where it needs to be at, I think you kind of put your guy at disadvantage. Yeah, like, I actually mentioned this too. Like, maybe Jack just thought with his length and his ball skills that maybe he was the best matchup for him. I mean, it could have been.

It doesn't mean that he was right. But when he got punched in the mouth, he maybe should have had a different. different, a backup plan, perhaps. Yes, and that's where I met Professor at the end of the day. You're never wrong for planning anything, but you're wrong when you plan something that doesn't work, and you continue to do the same thing. Yeah, that's the definition of insanity, right?

I mean, you got to have little finger, you know, ready to come in to help out John Snow, courtesy of his sister or step-sister, or actually, as it turns out it was, his half-sister. You need to have a Tierian Lannister in your pocket. You got to have one and two. Yeah. We needed the Knights of the Vale to come in and bail them out. All right, so defensively overall, they've taken a pounding from media, from fans. one of the things I've said is stop telling me they've been giving up 30 points a game. Buffalo scored on defense, Arizona scored on defense.

We had after one of the five turnovers last week against Buffalo, we held them to one yard and the dude kicked a 54-yard field goal. But what was your overall thought about the defense on Sunday and the defense through four games? Well, when you play, when you, when you're a prize fighter fighting against one of the best fighters in the league. Oh, you're going to get bludging. Now, the thing about it is this team were resilient.

They went blow for blow with the Super Bowl runner-ups and made it look like we belong on the field with you. Yes, they're going to get some plays. We don't get some plays. They got the best office line assembled in football. So getting to Dalen Hurston and considering that he wanted to quarterbacks to get down, I thought especially in the first half with the offense weaponizing the run, that they did a great job.

But you knew eventually they were going to be going to, start to make plays and you knew you had to have a counterpunch for it. The only thing I felt like the defense didn't do good in that game was I felt like in the passing game, we didn't, we just talked about the match-hill problem, but I feel like we didn't finish plays when they were presented to us. I felt like we were supposed to turn the ball over more than we did, but we didn't. So I'm not down on the offense when I watched them play against Josh Allen, a Super Bowl hopeful, and Jaylen Hurts.

Like sometimes is all about your competition. Like, look at the competition, look at the guys we played, and think about this. And people not down on Arizona no more like they was, because Arizona has showed you that they didn't get the memo about the fact that that Kayla Williams folks would be coming there. So at the end of the day, I look at the defense and say, hey, the front individually, they play well. Now I need to see them play as a organic unit.

I need to see them play in rush in unison. I need to see them dominate. dominate games because they have the ability to dominate games. I need to see Cody Bart not backing up. I need to see him going down hill. I need to see more Cam Curl in the backfield. It's things that I want. I want to start to dictate games on defense, especially with his offense.

The offense have shocked us all. So if the defense can get their rhythm, they can start to make play. Is it possible that the four defensive linemen, starting defensive linemen, I wouldn't say this personally about Duran Payne because I think he's elite. But is it possible they're just really good players, but there's not a game wrecker in the bunch? You know what? That'll be easy to say when they actually eat off each other plate and take stats from each other. That'll be easy to say in totality.

But my thing is, have we seen? Like, here go what I see sometimes. I see a team that goes out there and says, Hey, we got four first rounds on the office line. Y'all go win y'all one-on-ones, and that's going to be probably it. We're not going to add people to the blitz. We're not going to do this. We're not going to go to do that.

We're not going to manufacture turnovers through the pen. We're going to do it through the players. And I think sometimes that sets players back. I think this group could be dominant if you find ways to force one-on-ones by adding people to the rush. I feel like you weaponize this defense line when you actually get a middle-line backer that actually gets on the opposite. side of the ball. Like Cody

Barton is taking on tackles. He's not being a hitter. And when your linebackers are not fitting the gap, it looks like it's your defensive linemen, but it's your linebacker. They're called spade of spade. If we heard Bobby Wagner as a middle lineback, I promise you,

you wouldn't look at this defensive line the same way. It's just one of those things when you don't got a key cog in there, it don't allow the other ones to meet their top possible output when it comes to it. I think it has a little bit to do with the play calling and a lot to do with the linebackers in the middle of linebackers. And I think Jamie Davis is having a hell of a year quietly that nobody's talking about.

I think if we had Bobby Wagner, forget that. If we had the corner that plays on his team, Witherspoon, it'd be maybe a different. Did you see him on Monday night? No, yes, I did see him on Monday night. And he just went to the perfect storm. He went to the perfect place. His head coach is a DB guy. Moving him inside.

How many people take a cornerback? the top 10 and let him play slot. So at the end of the day, it's just him having his thing, but don't worry about a professor. When it's all overwinning 10 years and we look back, we don't be one of the people loving the fact that we take forward. Don't worry. He just got his eye black.

He'll be okay. All right. There are a couple more things real quickly as it relates to the game on Sunday. Well, let's just start with the offense. Sam, Hal, Eric Bianamy, because we talked last week, and it was It was a disaster against Buffalo, and it was an unbelievable 180 against Philadelphia.

Who gets the most credit for how good they played, how well they played Sunday in Philadelphia? Well, first ball, it's 50-50. Split right down the middle. Coach B. enemy and Sam, how is showing you, listen, I can get in the box arena with them all. I'm going to go blowful blow with them. I look like I've blown. You need the play to be made. Give me a chance to little block it, and I will make these plays.

I'm getting better every game. Just give me a change. Like, he's showing you that it's been a long time in Washington since I would watch a game, and no matter if we went down, felt like we were still in the game, he would make it plays. Come on, he just played against the best D-line and football opposite of our D-line. Like, and he showed you, I'm going to sit in the pocket. I'm going to make hard throws. I'm going to make hard decisions.

I will take, I will take tackles, but I do love what Coach B. Enemy did was understanding I can't physically blooding. this defense the line, so I'm going to move the pocket with quarterback wagons. I'm going to get him outside the pocket. I'm going to manufacture time for him instead of just sitting back and trying to go a mono and mono. So I thought it was a great job by them, and everybody wants to bring up the two-pork conversion. And I feel about the two-pork conversion, and I only feel this way because I'm an ex-player, and I'm looking at it from a player totality.

Do I want my players playing a fifth quarter of football on the road knowing that I have, another game within four days. Do I want that fifth quarter? Do I want them to play nine quarters of football in four days? That's why I would have went on, went for two, win, lose a drawl, got out of there, turned the page next day. Okay, that's actually sensible, okay? Not that I would expect anything less from you, but let me ask you if the game, if the next game weren't on Thursday, but it was next Sunday. Would you have gone for two or not in that spot? And you know what?

I don't, you know, it's one of them things, damn, if you do, damn if you don't, situations. So it's one of the things, whatever my coach wants to do, I want to do it, but I, as an ex-player, I would want some logic to be in there and like, okay, do you really want to go to fifth quarter with Philadelphia in Philadelphia? Do you want to try to catch this and ride this little momentum?

we got from him a shot at the buzzer, do you want to say one more play and let's get out of here? I would have been ticked the short route only because it wasn't a home game and because it was a short week. But if it was a Sunday, I don't think it would have changed my mind. Let's go right now while we got them on the ropes. We just drove the ball down on the field. They just gave up a touchdown. The morale is low. Let's try to strike on why the iron's hot.

That's why I would have went for two. Can the professor just give you a couple of reasonable reasons why they should have kicked it? Please, please do. First of all, I just love that you call me the professor. I don't know where that came from, but it's great. So, first of all, I'm with you. Like in that, damned if you do, damned if you don't. To me, there wasn't a clearly obvious right answer or wrong answer.

in part because we didn't have enough information. Like for all we know, they just didn't have a play, a two-point play going into the game that they loved. You know, if they had one that they loved. No, but you just ran that play earlier with Curtis Samuel's on the goal. You cannot tell me you don't got a play off of it. You got a play off of it. Well, that was at the one-yard line, not the two.

Okay, so that may have been a play that could have been, in the two-point arsenal. But all I'm saying is it's possible after three hours of football, they felt really good about their two-point plays coming in, and then they didn't feel as good about them. But whatever, here's my point. Here's why in the moment I said I'm okay with it. Number one was a lot of times teams will go for two, you know,

when they're down one at the very end. By the way, when people say they go for the win, you're only going for the win if there isn't any time left or there's very little time left. I hate when people say, well, they went for the win. They went for two with 50 seconds to go. 50 seconds to go is going for the lead, not for the win. Okay, that's number one.

So for me, if you're an underdog and you're the lesser team and you feel like more possessions and more time favors the better team, fine, go for it. But I didn't feel watching that game on Sunday that Washington was the lesser team. I'm not telling you that I think Philadelphia is a better team. But I thought this was not in the moment like, oh my God, we are, we're lucky to be here. We're barely hanging with them. Let's just let's roll it on.

Let's roll the roulette wheel and hope it hits red. I didn't think that way. Secondly, and this is more of an answer that you can grapple with, is that I thought all of their success offensively was coming in space. I think they took advantage of a secondary that doesn't run as well as their names might say they run. And we were attacking them in space. And I didn't like the condensed field and essentially giving the weakness of the Philadelphia defense on the day, which was it secondary. I didn't feel like giving them an advantage of not having to run was a good idea. So I was okay with the decision to kick and go to overtime.

I thought they had a really good chance to win in overtime. I did. But I don't think going for two was a wrong answer, but that's why I was okay with kicking. The game Thursday night throwing it into, what if we go 10 minutes, what if we play almost an entire extra quarter and another 30 plays or whatever it could have been? That's an interesting thought that I had not thought of and I had not heard expressed. And that, you know, maybe should have factored into it. I don't know. But what did you make of the professor's reasons for being okay with them kicking and going to overtime?

I just feel like I checked into class and professor just peed down my leg and told me it was raining. Like, you gave me every excuse of why we should go to this fifth quarter with a team, like you said, we wasn't outmatched. But what I do know is what leverage do I have at the moment. Look at the moment in football It's situational at all times The moment is I got them with their back against the wall I just took the air out of the stadium

by scoring a touchdown and driving the ball with one second left last player of the game I got them scrattled You just said the weakness right now Is the deep in the backfield because they're missing a couple players and Slay is not playing well against Terry

And we know what Logan Thomas can do in the red zone I'm just one of those people like we won't have these advantages in overtime. Why? Because when we get, first of all, we got to go out for the cornflip. They give everybody time and the rest, get the coaches on the sideline time to re-evaluate how we're going to attack them.

And it gives Jalen Hertz another chance to get the ball at home. I don't want that to happen. I don't want that to happen. I don't want that to be a option. I want to take that off the table right now and say two yards. We need two yards. Maybe we need to do the brotherly shove. Maybe we need to do it.

Well, we don't do it as well as they do it. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, come on now. I just think at that situational time, you won't get a, you won't get leverage like that anymore in this game if you go to overtime with Philadelphia in Philadelphia. All right. I mean, I, again, I don't think there's a wrong answer here. I, in my opinion, I felt good enough about the way they were playing that I didn't want it to come down to a flip of a coin on a play where maybe it's set up. well and Big Jalen Carter gets his paws on the ball and it gets deflected and all of a sudden it's just over. I felt like let's continue to play. We got a shot. But, you know, there's reasonable

positions on both sides without the professor pinging down your leg and telling you it's raining. Oh, one other thing from the game that I hated, and I'm wondering if you've talked about this this week. The play that got them in field goal range in overtime, the third and 17, they sent six. Jack sent six pass rushers, but he played soft behind it. I thought that was a mistake. What did you think? First of all, this is what's wrong also. This is what I don't like. They play a lot of off man sitting at seven and a half, eight yards, and giving up hits you, you allowed him to run double moves. It makes me sick to my stomach. If you remember when me and my guys were here, Jeff Bailey, Sean Spring. We pressed everything.

Because the one thing you get when you press routes is I take the route tree out of the game. When I press you, they run two routes. There's a fade. That's a slant. That's an automatic check. Now, all I have to do is a coma is learn how to dominate fades

and slent. When you play off, I have to cover the whole route tree. There's 13 to 15 routes at any given time with no closure with no understanding. If they go up and they press, it does two things. It makes it easier for the deepest lines to get to the quarterback because you're disrupting this guy. You're not going up there to press and just bail on them.

You're going up there to press to interrupt them one Mississippi, two Mississippi. Now you're making it hard to get clear throws. When you press, you also simplify it special for a young corner in how many routes he got to play and how he got to play them. They stop and go turns into a go. All right, that dig route turns into a go route. Everything under over seven yards turns into a go route. So I am one of those components. I want to challenge them, and I want to see them, play more press man, not just for the

corners, for the totality of the defense. It can change the complexity of it by getting up there and pressing. You've got two corners that six to and longer. Get up there, press, and really start to disrupt some offenses out there. That was a great explanation, honestly, of press coverage and what it does to a route tree and how it minimizes the number of routes a receiver can run. And by extension, how many the corner needs to be worried about. I don't think I've ever heard it explain that way.

That was really, really good. So let's get to tomorrow night in the game against Chicago. Get your thoughts on that matchup and maybe even a prediction from you. We'll do that right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Fred Smoot still with us. and we move now from Philadelphia on Sunday to FedEx Field tomorrow night in the matchup against the Bears on Thursday night football. I know you're familiar with this description.

So when I say it, I know that I don't need to explain it. But do you think tomorrow night feels a little bit like a trap game? You can't trap the spider. The spider can't do that to me. Like the thing about it is this team just coming off the loss won't be overlooking Chicago. They haven't forgot what happened in Chicago last year where we barely made it out of Chicago. They know Justin Fields can change the game with his feet, and he threw four touchdowns last week, so you know eventually him and DJ Moore will get that thing rocking and socket.

But in saying all that at one point, at one level, you should beat the teams that you should beat, and this is one of those teams. No, I'm not taking anything away from them. Any protein could beat you any week. Just as the Cowboys, what I am saying is when you can and you do have a chance at home to make a statement and show the world that you are serious, this is what you have to do, and you know they are team trying to find their identity. They are team trying to find their way. You need to stump them and you've got to start fast.

We got to do something that we don't do a lot. We've got to start fast and get them behind and make them one-dimensional. I want Justin Field throwing the ball. I do not want him running the ball. I want him passing the ball. Put it like this. If he passes the ball 35 or 40 times, that's a victory. I'm telling you that now.

That's what I want. And you can only do that, make a team throw if they are behind. So I'm talking to the offense when I say this. Get out there, scott some points, force them to be one-dimensional, and let's end this early. That's what you have to do. That's what the good teams do. All right.

We'll end it with this, then. What's your prediction? Oh, my prediction Thursday night. We start quick, we start quick. I'm actually going, because we've been 30 plus. It's been a long time since we had back to back to back 30 plus game. I think that's just the era of the same how, the era of the air wolf. So I am going to go 35 to 19 for theft.

You're the best. Thanks for doing this. I will talk to you soon. Appreciate it, as always. Anytime, brother. All right, that is it for the day with one exception. I'm going to leave you with a highlight today. that I found last week.

I was just waiting for Fred to come back on the show. It's a highlight from a game between the Vikings and the Packers. Fred Smoot was playing with the Vikings. The game was at Lambo. Brett Farve was the quarterback for Green Bay. It was a Sunday night football game, but Bryant Gumble and Chris Collinsworth are on the call, and during these years it was Michaels and Madden.

So it may have been one of those games that was like a Saturday night game, or a holiday night game where, you know, Michaels and Madden had the Sunday night game, but they had, you know, Collinsworth and Bryant Gumble doing the extra game that NBC had that week. Whatever it was, it's Bryant Gumble and Chris Collinsworth on the call. And Smoot picks Farve off, returns it for a touchdown. You'll hear the call.

You'll hear some of the follow-up. And then when they come back from commercial, you'll hear them describe what happened when Fred Smoot attempt. did the Lambeau leap as an opposing player from a rival team. All right, that's it for the day. I am back tomorrow.

Farve has this one picked on the far side. Fred Smooth. Fred Smooth. Only Farve to beat. Touchdown Vikings. We talked about the youth on the outside. Greg Jennings never got the audible, never turned around.

Brett was expecting a hitch on the outside. Fred Smoot in his own saw it. coming all the way and just an easy catch, an easy interception. And that's what you get when you deal with rookies on the outside for whatever reason. He didn't hear it, didn't get the communication, and Brett Farr throws a pick. And just like that, the Minnesota Vikings, who have been absolutely woeful on offense all night, find themselves leading in the ball game with 5'10 to play in the third period. Following an interception return for a touchdown by Fred Smook, they're out in front, 7 to 6.

Start a quarterback tonight because Cedric Griffin, the starter there, is out with a stinger. Smooth picking this one off and taking it back 47 yards and getting rejected in the end zone. What are they doing Wrigley? If you hit a home run, they just throw it back. They just threw Smoot back.