The Kevin Sheehan Show - Snyder And Leonsis Should Swap Franchises

Episode Date: July 2, 2019

Kevin and Thom talked World Cup, Wizards, Durant's jersey being retired, Governor Ted, the Redskins, if Snyder and Leonsis should swap franchises, Colin Kapernick/Nike/Betsy Ross, and more. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. All right, I am here. Aaron is here.

Tommy is here. This show is presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation. And tell them that we told you to call. Good morning, Thomas. Good morning, Kevin. How you doing?

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I just polished off. a bag of peanut M&Ms, which are among my favorites. But I haven't been doing sweets recently. Well, because you're on a health kick. But when I went on vacation, it all changed. Lots of alcohol, lots of food, lots of dessert.

And now I've got to get back off that cake. Are you more active, physically active, when you're on vacation as opposed to your daily life? I was on this one because, A, we played golf. We went on a couple of long bike rides. And you're just generally, when you're on vacation, you're walking a lot. Yeah, that's what I find that, you know, look, I go to the gym three times a week. I'm pretty active these days. But I always find when I'm on vacation, if I eat more, it doesn't seem to affect me that much because I'm much more.

when I'm on vacation. Yeah, I mean, you're not, you have to be, right? You're going to see places, you're going out to dinner. Yeah, you're not sitting in. And home watching TV. Exactly, exactly. Actually, last night I was out, I wasn't watching TV. Last night I went to a Frederick Keys game.

I think I saw you tweet that out. Yeah, I tweeted out something. Did you tweet out a lot about the Frederick's? No, no, I didn't. I tweeted out a picture of Ryan Ripkin, who's playing for the Keys right now, Cal's son still trying to, you know, get a job in Major League Baseball. He's 26 years old. It's way too old for a guy at Single A.

He got drafted by the Nationals in 2014. And he struggled. He struggled on and off in the minor leagues. But it was interesting to see Ryan Ripkin out there. And the Keys, you know, they put on a good show. It was a lot of fun. I was there with my buddy Pete. You met Pete once.

I brought him to the studio. Okay. Yeah, he's been my best friend since we were 11 years old. And he lives, like, just outside of Cocky'sville in Baltimore. So we had to get together once in a while. And we were sitting there and just talking all kinds of stuff over a, you know, a nine-inning three-and-half hour minor league game. And he was talking about this baseball field that he used to play on in East Trousburg

that was kind of a makeshift field that was owned by this kid named Larry Diamond that we went to school with. And I said Larry Diamond. That name sounds familiar. No, nobody you know, but somebody back in East Trousburg who we went to school with,

one of the two fights I won in high school was against Larry Diamond. Oh, really? Yeah. He was kind of, look. How many did you? you lose? Oh, early on, I got my butt kicked a lot because I was a little kid with a big mouth. Yeah, I can imagine you had the big mouth. Yeah, and remember, we went in our school,

it was seven through 12. So you had 18-year-old kids with 13-year-old kids. Wow, why is that? That's just the way it was. Junior high and high school was in the same building. So there was plenty of opportunity to get your butt kicked around. And so I did early on, but, uh, but You know, whenever you think of Larry Diamond, I said to my buddy, Pete, I said, you know, I think he ran for the school board recently. I think I read that in the hometown paper, which is absurd on so many levels that this guy would run for the school board. Trust me, okay? Yeah. I mean, it's absurd.

Like, I was lucky to get out of high school, but I didn't think I was ever in Larry Diamond's class. Right. Larry was limited. Yeah. And so I Google it while we're sitting there, and not only did he run for the school board, he got elected. Really? And I mean, I was outraged. I was sitting there outraged. I was saying, how could this happen?

How could my hometown elect a guy like Larry Diamond to the school board? I mean, and I think I found out the reason why. is that they couldn't get enough people to run. I mean, and so he just kind of won by default. Yeah, here he is. I mean, I don't have a picture yet, but I certainly have him mentioned as the East Straussberg school board guy. This is so absurd.

In a couple of stories. This is unbelievable. So I was angry about that all night. Do you, I mean, clearly had you stayed in that part of the world, you could have been on the school board. Well, I wouldn't have been on the school board. But you could have perhaps been elected to something even more significant. No, no, no, I couldn't have.

You could be a mayor? Yeah, I could. You could definitely be a mayor. I could be a mayor. And people would love you as a mayor. If I was a mayor of East Trousburg, first thing I would do is I would order Larry Diamond off the school board. Off the school board. So that's the kind of thing.

We talked about a lot of things growing up, you know. You know, a lot of the same stories when we get together at this stage. But we had fun at the game. We had great seats. The Keys lost four, three, and nine games. Nine innings. Nine innings. And what was interesting, though, is I was telling my buddy Pete, a week ago, I went to a

Southern Maryland Blue Crabbs game. Okay. The team that plays in Waldorf. I think I purchased some tickets at your option. Yes. Yeah, I'm working on getting those. Okay. And they play in the independent Atlantic League, not affiliated with.

anybody. They just pretty much in other words, the difference is the Frederick Keyes players and manager, they're picked by the Orioles. They're an Orioles Farm Club.

Right. So the Orioles decide who's on the team and who manages the team. When you're in the Atlantic League and independent league, the owner of that team decides who's the manager

and who the players are. And sometimes they're former major leaguers trying to get back. Matt Latos used to be a pretty good pitcher for the Cincinnati Reds. is pitching for the blue crabs. Well, the reason I went down there because the Atlantic League made a deal with baseball

to act as their laboratory for proposed rule changes that baseball wants to do to speed up the game. Well, one thing they're doing is there's no mound visits by anybody. In other words, the catcher can't go out and talk to the pitcher.

The pitching coach can't go out and talk to the pitcher. The manager can't go out. You can just say, out to the umpire and make the switch basically the umpire go the manager goes to the top step signals to the umpire and the umpire signals to the bullpen and that's how it's done so if your pitcher is out there struggling and you want to calm them down no more those those days those days are gone and that's what baseball's thinking of doing the other thing is is uh there's a three batter minimum when you bring in a relief pitcher that they're doing down there now if you if you are brought you

in with two outs and you get the third out, you don't have to come in the next inning and pitch to two batters. But if you're brought in early in an inning, let's say there's, you know, the guy walks the first two hitters and there's nobody out and it's a left-handed hitter. And you bring in a lefty to face the next two rightes. He's got to stay in to face the next two riders. Got got it. So it's, and, and they're primed and ready for the electronic umpire.

They have the device there at the stadium already in, play. They had, they tested it a little bit at another city and it didn't go well, so they're working out some kinks, but they may by the end of the season go to the electronic balls and strikes. That's what I, I think out of everything you've just discussed, that would be the most interesting to see how that works and whether or not it's accurate and whether or not they can keep it accurate and consistent. I don't like

I like this strategy of relief pitchers and you know lefties against lefties and being brought in sometimes to face one guy and then leave but I do and I can see where there would be significant time savings without all of the mound visits

by both you know players and coaches and manager that I mean that would save I think significant time well so far it hasn't saved a lot of time yet in the games this year oh it hasn't Atlantic League games are down by three minutes. So they are down, but they're only down by little.

And as far as strategy, what this introduces is a whole new level of strategy. The manager really has to decide when they're making their pitching change. You know, not just the lefty to get the lefty, but the lefty who's effective enough to get the next guy's out. And the opposing manager, well, when you're making up your lineup, you want to make sure. more than ever that you've got righties following lefties, that you've got balance in your lineup because you don't want a situation where you've got two or three lefties coming up.

And then, you know, the guy, they can bring in a left-handed pitcher and he could have a cakewalk pitching against left-handed hitters. So it brings a whole new different level of strategy, particularly when you're making up the lineup. Yeah, and you can't, you know, someone might say,

well, then the other team has to reciprocate by not changing their batting lineup, but that doesn't waste time. Right. It's going to the bullpen and the warm-up of the pitcher that saves, that eats up so much time. And there's one other thing that they do. Oh, there's a couple of other things,

but one other is interesting. You can't shift the infield. Now it's the shortstop has to say on the shortstop side of second base all the time. There were a couple of moments in the Keys game last night where they did the shift. And the shortstop went pretty much behind second base to like on the other side. Can't do that anymore.

They haven't done it with shifting the outfield you're still allowed to do in the Atlantic League, but there's no infield shift either. And they're talking, they're even talking about for next year. And this is all, you know, baseball's experiment. All this would have to be approved by the Major League Baseball Players Association. So there's a lot of hoops to go through for it being Major League Baseball. This would be dramatic. don't understand the implications of it, but I think it would be severe.

They want to move the mound back two feet. That's pretty dramatic. Yeah, that is. I mean, you know, I think the idea is you'll have less foul balls. You have less foul offs. You know, batters having more of an opportunity to get the bat on the ball with hits. But that would change pitching dramatically. Pitching records, pitching numbers.

That's not like just lowering the mound like they did in six. after the 68 season. So, I mean, that's what I've been doing. Are you done? No, I'm not done yet. I got a few other things to talk about. Because this is really going on pretty long. Yes.

Yeah. You know, this is, this is, I know, this must have been hard for you to keep your mouth shut this whole time. I'm just sitting here wondering when it's going to end, but go ahead if you're not done yet. No, I'm just wondering. Look, the other thing is. It's a podcast.

We could do this for a couple hours. The other thing is, what's the other thing? I haven't watched any of the Women's World Cup, even though we were shamed for our comments the last time you and I did the podcast together. What were our comments again? Because I can imagine what they were because we both feel the- Well, you made fun of the guy sitting in a coffee shop watching the Women's World Cup on his tablet. Yeah, of course I did. Oh, we got crucified for that.

We did? By whom? Just on Twitter? Yeah, some guys on Twitter. One guy predicted an S storm of controversy from our comments. It's ridiculous. Controversy, well, did it blow up? I was out last week, as you know, on vacation.

It didn't exactly blow up. Yeah, okay, good. They're on today. So I'll just mention, today is the semi-final against England at 3 o'clock. And the reason I know that is because my son said to me this morning, did you know that the women's World Cup that they're already at the semifinal stage and I said yeah when is that game

he said it's today at 3 o'clock I did know that they had reached that round because on my flight home on Friday late Friday I had my headphones on I was listening to music but then I heard a bunch of clapping from people on the plane and you thought it was for you and I was like well what are they clapping for

and I you know moved my removed my headphones and looked around and I could see that everybody had on their screen the women's game against France, which I then turned mine to to see what the score. And it was a goal that made it two to nothing U.S. And I proceeded to listen to music the rest of the flight, but I had the game on in front of me and watch the rest of the game, and France scored.

And they had, in fact, I will tell you this, Tommy, we don't know anything about soccer. And it's almost the same conversation that I sometimes have about hockey that, you know, I'm a sports fan. So I can watch something and observe something, observe it as a sports fan with some context of how the game's being played. And sometimes I'll watch a hockey game and I'll say, wow, it seemed like the capitals dominated and had the ice tilted for, you know, 48 of the 60 minutes and yet they lost one nothing or whatever, which is, and in that soccer game, over those final 20 minutes, France had the ball basically down in U.S. territory, if that's what they call it in soccer, with multiple chances to tie the game over and over again. And it just seemed like France was dominating the U.S., but they had the 2-1 lead.

And then I thought, well, maybe the U.S. is playing in sort of a protective mode. Yeah. You know, so they don't want to give up an odd man chance, if that's what you call it in soccer. But I did explain to my son this morning that I actually am interested in the game. I'm not going to sit there and watch the whole thing more likely than not. But I do recognize the pop culture phenomena that is the U.S. women's World Cup team or the U.S. women's national team and the stars that are on the team. I didn't even know when this World Cup started that it was a World Cup women's year. I didn't. I mean, I'm sure maybe somebody mentioned it to me, but it's not on my radar.

But I know who Alex Morgan is. I know who Carly Lloyd is. I know who Hope Solo is. She's not on this team. Right. I mean, their players have become stars, like big stars in this country. So I do, I'm vaguely familiar with. I have a question for you, though, as it relates to the World Cup that I don't think you'll have the answer to, but I'm curious. They're playing England today. Is it a big deal in England? Is the Women's World Cup team a huge deal for the Brits? Do we know?

Women's soccer is bigger in Europe than it is in the United States. Because soccer is bigger. Well, we know that. But is it? No, do I think it's, I don't know. I don't, I can't, I'm guessing based on the fact that I know that women's professional soccer is more successful in Europe than it is here in. the United States where it's non-existent.

Right. You know, and every time there's a World Cup or an Olympics, we get people saying, oh, okay, now women's soccer is going to take off in this country and they start a league and it folds 18 months later. I think it's a much bigger deal around the world than it is here. That doesn't surprise me that women's soccer is more important there, but I guess what I'm trying to frame it as, where is it as it relates to their men's World Cup team? Like, is this just a tiny fraction of the excitement over England being in the World Cup semifinals in the men's competition in Qatar next year or whenever that is?

Or is it closer? Like, is it a huge deal? I don't know. I don't want to say the wrong thing and create a shit store. Well, you won't. You're not going to create a shit. Well, I don't know. Again, I don't know.

I doubt if it would be anything close to the men playing in the World Cup, just like here. Right. It's not anything close. the men's world cup. I've gotten into it the last few, you know, for like the last four or five World Cups. It's a hipster event. It is, soccer is a hipster thing. It's the sport for people who don't like sports. I know. You've been saying that for 10 years and I don't disagree with you and I know exactly where you're coming from and I have the same feelings. But I am a massive sports fan. So are you. I have not been exaggerating when I have said to you,

that these World Cups in the last four or five of them, that I've actually enjoyed watching them. I don't have like this significant rooting interest. I'm not crushed when the U.S. gets beat, but I think the pageantry of it and the importance of it to the rest of the world is intriguing. And it's made me more interested in watching it. Not to forget also that you really do, as a sports fan,

you can recognize the brilliant athleticism, skill level of some of these athletes. It's not a game that I'm never going to watch an MLS game. I don't think I've watched an MLS game, Tommy. I swear to you, since it was a birthday party for one of my, you know, he was probably eight years old and one of his friend's father, you know, the father got tickets to the DC United and we went down. That's the last time I saw any, even a minute of an MLS game. But the World Cup's different. These are the best of the best. And I do have some appreciation watching that. But I'm not going to tell you that I love it, but I just think it's interesting. The Women's World Cup, not nearly as interesting to me as the men's World Cup,

but I think I will watch some of today's game and hope for like a competitive game. I'm rooting for the U.S. It's great. How many World Cups have they won now? Aaron, I don't even know. I remember when they won in 99 and what's her face ripped off her shirt and was left with the sports thing yeah it was left with the sports bra yeah and that was that was 1999 wasn't it yeah i think there's been about three or four leagues i've started and folded since then yeah will you watch any of it well i watch any of it today no i'll be at the ballpark today i'll be at nat's park uh play the morlands yeah they've won three world cops by the way three in a row no 91 99 and 2015 didn't win between 99 and 2015 So they're the reigning World Cup.

Those are the dark years of women's soccer. Apparently so. Yes, obviously. But they were dark for you and me anyway. Yes, they were. Those are the dark years. Yeah. Well, anyway, good luck to the Women's World Cup thing today.

Absolutely. Have added. Go get them, Megan Rapino and some of the other gals. I got to admit, I like her. Oh, you do? Oh, yeah. Oh. I like her.

I like Alex Morgan. And actually, I think Hope Solo is unbelievably hot. She's not on the team. I know that. She's not on a team. Yeah. But she's crazy, huh? Yeah, I agree with that.

Yeah. I definitely agree. See, I can't, can you right now name a men's World Cup player for the U.S. team? First of all, they didn't qualify for the last World Cup. Yeah, but they'll qualify for this one, I think. They are? Well, because there's 48 teams. And I think they expanded the World Cup from 32 to 48.

Oh, they did? I think you're right about that. Yeah, so I think. 32 to 48? I think I'm right about that. I mean, so. That's a big expansion. Yeah.

No, this next one will be the last one to have 32. Oh, the last one to have 32. And then does it go to 48 or 40? 48 in 2026. Okay. So there was the one guy whose name, you know, again, I can't even come up with his name right now that was on every. Donovan Landon? Landon Donovan.

That's him. Yeah. That guy. Landon Donovan. Yeah. Of course, him. You know, I mean, I remember, I caught. I caught head.

I caught head. I caught head. I was shaking his head back there. Well, on the radio once, we were, when they beat Albania, and I think it was Albania, and I remember saying, you beat Albania. People were celebrating. Well, I mean, Albania. A bunch of 27-year-old hipsters.

I mean, when I think of Albania, I think. PBR and Schlits. I think of Abbott and Costello movies in the Foreign Legion and stuff. I mean, but this went over Albania. Albania was celebrating. and I got hammered by, what's his name? The left wing columnist for the nation. Dave Zarin.

Oh, my God, Dave Zirin, Zirin, whatever. He hammered me for that. He hammered you and he hammered me for something. Oh, he hammered me over my position over the Redskins name. Yeah, multiple times. And we actually had nice dialogue, you know, back and forth. But I do remember him crushing you over that. because I made fun of the win over.

I'm sure, was it Albania, Aaron? Do you know? They beat Albania? You would remember. You didn't get that country wrong. No, I think. And so it's hard to take it seriously. I mean, I suggested a couple years ago that the Americans just boycott the World Cup

and create their own. Call it the Super Bowl of soccer and have all the teams who didn't qualify for the World Cup. playing this. How arrogant would that be? Really? You didn't play in the World Cup. Come play in our Super Bowl of soccer. And then you have the winner of the Super Bowl of soccer play the winner of the World Cup. Hopefully the World Cup would say we're not playing the winner of your dumb American event. That would have been fun.

But you had to create because you weren't good enough to compete with us. That would have been the American way of doing things. By the way, I just mentioned something real quickly, and I don't know if you know this or not. Well, by the way, we are creating a shitstorm as we speak. I don't care. You do know that. It doesn't matter to me at all. I mentioned something, just an off-handed remark there, about hipsters and the beer that they drink.

Did you know? And I know this because I've got a son that plays music and I'm in live music venues more than anybody my age or any of my friends are. And, you know, every time I go into one of these places, the beer selections over the last five years, PBR is like a super popular beer among young people. That's been for a while. It's been five, six, seven years, something like that. Okay, maybe it has been. Close to a decade.

Yeah. Explain that to me. First of all, it's horrible. There were, what was the best cheap beer that you can remember as, you know, a young person? Well, we used to, we used to drink out of kegs at parties. Well, we did too. I mean, and we used to get, and the Stagmire Brewery was up in Wilkesburg. I collected beer cans as a kid.

I remember Stagmire. Stagmire beer was right up the road in Wilkesbair. And we used to get... Is it Wilkes-Ber or Wilkesbury? Wilkes-Ber. Okay. Kegs is that where King College is? Yeah.

Yeah, they offered me a chance to play basketball there. Really? You should have went there. I didn't. I went to Maryland, but they were like, there was like five D-3 schools that didn't. When was this? It would have been in the early 80s. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, I was gone from Scranton then, which is right in the next. store. But what was I saying? You were talking about, we were talking about beer, cheap beer. So we used to drink Stagmire, you know, out of the kegat parties. That was probably the cheapest beer.

And we drank Schmitz out of Philadelphia. Yeah. That was pretty cheap beer as well. We never drank PBR. We thought that was below the beer that we drank. PBR and Schlitz were like below the good cheap beers. And now they're both popular. And you're probably right.

It's probably been back for longer than I even know. But I, you know, four or five years ago, I got one and I'm like, how do you drink this? They must have marketed it the right way somehow. It's all marketing. Yeah. It has to be all marketing. But the, you know, it's almost like I had this question the other day. You're not a vodka drinker, are you?

No. So, you know, everybody now drinks, are a lot of people, drink Tito's. Tito's has become super popular as a vodka. Whereas five years ago, it was all kettle one. Like it was kettle one, and we were having this conversation on vacation last week. And I think my brother-in-law, who follows a lot of this, it's all marketing. You know, there's not that much of a difference in the product. It's all marketing.

Anyway, the best cheap beers, when I was in college, we drank a lot of Milwaukee's best, which was a really good cheap beer. So was Bush. Bush was a really good cheap beer. Those were the two, I mean, we got Bush and Milwaukee's best in kegs a lot of the time. But usually when we got a keg, it was almost always Budweiser. When I was in Miami. Especially in high school in particular.

When I was in Miami and the day, I burnt my fraternity house down. I had gone. Yes, he did, people. Somebody, I mentioned. There's one guy in this town who keeps asking me to get you to tell this story because they're like, Why doesn't Tommy tell the story every time you joke about it? And I just think we pulled it so many times. But whatever.

Well, I went across the street to the U-Totum, which is like a 7-Eleven in the middle of a Saturday afternoon to get some beer. And I got two six-packs of Peel's real draft. It was $1.19 a six-pack. Wow. You know, so that was pretty cheap. $1.19. So, I mean, basically, I got two six-packs, and I'm carrying them back, and I'm walking down the hallway. and my roommate comes running out of the room

with the flame shooting behind him saying Woody, he set the room on fire. Well, I was going to get Peel's real draft. Right. So that was another cheap beer we drink. Like I said, $1.19 a six pack. Yeah, that was, I don't, Peels wasn't an option around here.

Schaefer was an option. You know, we drank a lot of rolling rock. Yeah. You know? Yeah, we drank a lot of rolling rock. And actually, later on in a Poconos, what was a big draft beer? and it's still really good.

Genesee cream ale. Genesee, I remember those. But not beer. Not the beer, not the beer, the cream ale. Oh, the cream ale. Really good stuff. All right. Let's get to some sports here for a couple of minutes.

Let's keep it short, though, okay? So there are a couple things. First of all, the wizard signed Isaiah Thomas. Yeah, I don't know what to make it. You know, I wrote a column kind of praising Tommy Shepherd. That was before the Isaiah Thomas signing, basically saying, you know, he's, he's taking. a smart path of just doing saying what would Ernie Grunfeld do and do the opposite.

It's the anti-Eernie Grunfeld thing. How so? Well, because everything they're, all they're doing so far, and I don't know what's going on when I say Thomas. It's all based, oh, look at the draft picks. First of all, they drafted a college senior and a college junior. Okay. Ernie drafted Euros and young college kids who were interested in their brand.

I'll give you that on the draft. So that's the one. Yeah, the most part. And the buzzword inside the Wizards organization is character. If the Boy Scouts had fielded a team, they would have been on the Wizards draft board. This is what they're obsessed with now, is character. Because all of a sudden they've woken up and realized how bad the organization was. And the bad blood that flowed behind the scenes for people who worked under Ernie.

and I think Tommy Shepard, even though he worked for Ernie, was a guy who never had a voice. I mean, Ernie was the lone voice in that organization. And I think some of the limited things he's been able to do so far stacks up pretty well as the anti-Eerny Grunfeld. I have no idea what to make of the Isaiah Thomas signing. It's, you know, I don't either. I mean, he didn't play enough last year.

Look, you know, you may be right. I haven't thought about it from that perspective. I mean, Ernie hasn't, you know, knocked the socks off, you know, free agency either, you know. I mean, they've spent some bad money in free agency, but they just haven't even been able, you know, they haven't thought big enough. This is an organization that just thinks small.

You know, it's Ted. It's, you know, he thinks that the new construct, of the NBA is that, you know, patience and self-restraint and self-control is what you have to have. And you don't, it's the opposite of that that you have to have. You have to be ballsy like Brooklyn was. You cannot be a contender in this league without big-time stars. And the contenders are made in this, in this three to four-day period. And the Wizards are never a participant, you know, during this time. Because Ted's got, you know, all the spreadsheets and all the, you know, the analysis. out and he can't, he's too gun-shy, he's too conservative, he's not aggressive enough. I actually said something yesterday on the show that several people responded to, and I said that, you know, it's,

it just occurred to me that Dan Snyder would be a much better owner of the Wizards, and Ted Leonis would be a much better owner of the Redskins, that, you know, you need, you need aggressive, you know, you know, balzy, impulsive, you know, going for it, thinking as an NBA owner and general manager, if you're going to have any chance, because thinking conservatively and being patient and long-term, you know, plans, that doesn't work in the NBA. The Lakers two weeks ago were a long shot, and now they're a prohibitive favorite to win the NBA title. Brooklyn wasn't even thought of, and now when Durant does come back, maybe not 2020, but 2021, they will be considered a contender.

If you don't, the NBA is a league, Tommy, that rewards bold. It doesn't reward spreadsheets and pros and cons lists where you're just analyzing and you're paralyzed to do anything bold. And that's what they have in this owner. This owner's better suited for the NFL, where self-control and patience is rewarded in the NFL. would probably make nine mistakes, but in his style, the 10th might pay off in a much bigger way in the NBA than it does in the NFL. There's logic to this.

There's total logic to it. And it doesn't matter because Governor Ted's not going to own the Redskins and Governor Dan's not going to own the Wizards. But Ted really is better suited for the NFL where long-term plans pay off. You know, I just, I'm, they're irrelevant as an NBA franchise. You know how I felt a few years ago, and I don't want to bring Ernie into it, but they were as close to something of substance as they had been since 1979. They were within a minute of going to the Eastern Conference finals for the first time since 1979 in their seventh inciting game against the Celtics,

where they had the lead at the end of three quarters. the year against Atlanta, if John doesn't get hurt, they probably get to the Eastern Conference Finals and beat the Hawks. They were never going to win a title. They were never going to beat LeBron. But I was excited about having a team that I actually care about be relevant in the postseason year after year after year. They're totally irrelevant right now. And the wall injury is a stifling smothering injury. But they're strategy of acquiring second round picks is not going to pay off. I guarantee fucking T.U.

No. This team is not going to, with Ted Leonis, continuing to own the team the way he owns, with, you know, this incredible sort of business plan mindset, long-term business plan mindset, it's not going to pay off for them. It's not. They're going to be terrible next year. I know that. But the second round draft picks are a good idea.

Acquiring them is a good idea. Oh, God. I mean, it's not a terrible idea. In lieu of doing nothing, but it's not going to lead to a title. No, it's not. But it could help. What they should have done is they should have thought big in traded Beal and acquired real assets for the player that is the most valuable asset they have at maybe the height of his tradeability and really started from scratch. That's big, bold thinking, you know, to start over.

What if they think? what if they're waiting for someone to offer them a trade for Beal, but that team has to take wall as well? Well, no team can take on to Supermax and a Max, you know, and then what are you going to get back for? They wouldn't have enough to get back for it. Nobody's taken Wallen. By the way, I want to give a backwards compliment to Ted.

The other thing that hurts him is his loyalty. You know, it hurt him with our. It's hurting him a little bit, I think, with Beal to a certain degree. You can't be super loyal in that sport when you haven't won. You know, you've got to be dog-eat-dog in the NBA as an owner and as a general manager to take your swing. De Rosen got traded last year to the Spurs, a guy that was incredibly important to that franchise. And I'm sure everybody had loyalty to him, and he had loyalty to them. but sorry, we can't win a title with you.

We can if we trade you and take a swing at it this year with Kauai Leonard. And our owner doesn't, it's not in his mindset to think aggressively like that. He's just not that style. Listen, there was a report out of Miami yesterday about Beale and Wall as part of the deal. I think it's far-fetched that would happen. I think it's far-fetched too. But what if that's their strategy? What if the strategy is, you know, we'll wait for somebody to,

because you really can't start over until you get rid of Wall's contract. Right, which is why, you know, they're sort of building for when they can. And to be fair, I would give them a lot. I would give them huge kudos. I'd have to see what they got back. I'd give them huge credit for thinking for the first time in a while in a big way. The last time they thought big was when they cleared space for Durant, and Durant wouldn't even take a meeting.

Right. And as a reason, but that wasn't the only thing. You think back then is not only did they clear space for Durant, but no other free agents would take their money. No, Horford wouldn't take it. Yeah. I mean, in a game-changing move went to Boston instead of coming to Washington. So, I mean, we talked about this before.

The Wizards were in the Sid Thrift mode. Remember Sid Thrift? Yes. To be the general manager of the Orioles. And there was a time where the Orioles couldn't sign any free agents because nobody wanted to go play for them. and he said, it's like we have counterfeit money. Well, the Wizards were in that situation

where the only guys they could pay were the guys who were on the team. They couldn't get anyone else to take their money. I read a quote that somebody attributed Ernie Grunfeld to Ernie Grunfeld, and it makes sense, your worst nightmare as an NBA general manager these days is clearing cap space and like the Knicks, having nobody to take your money.

I know. Well, I mean, look, on the Durant and Knicks thing, I said yesterday on the podcast, Kevin Durant, you know, the Knicks made this statement that they weren't prepared to offer them the max money because of the Achilles injury. I think it probably had more to do with Kevin Durant saying, I'm not going from the best ownership situation in the NBA to the worst. I think Durant's probably smart enough to think that way. And the Knicks are the worst.

And maybe that's the reason he wouldn't even take a meeting here. because he didn't appreciate or respect the ownership here. It's not great ownership. And by the way, Ted is, I think he's created a great hockey product. They were able to draft Ovetchkin. They were in position to draft Ovetchkin. Where would the caps have been over these many years had they not been in position to draft Ovechkin?

I don't know. Probably not what they've done during the Ovechkin era, which finally concluded with Stanley Cup last year. I do think he's very good at creating a really good live consumer experience. Every single time I go to that arena, I'm impressed for whatever I go there for, except for the security for a 630 college basketball start between Maryland and Georgetown. That was awful. But he's not daring enough. You know, you have to be more daring and more reckless and have more nerve in the NBA than you do.

in any other sport as ownership, because that works or that can work in the NBA, thinking and overthinking and being super analytic about everything doesn't work. It doesn't mean the reckless and the aggressiveness will pay off, but it's the only way it usually does. I think you're giving Kevin Durant way too much credit. I mean, look, according to some people I've read, he's getting ready to sue the Warriors. Oh, no, no, that's a separate subject about why he left.

That's not a separate subject. I'm talking about Brooklyn versus New York, the Knicks versus the next. But what I'm saying is I don't think Kevin Durant's sitting there thinking, I'm leaving one of the great ownership things. I think he hates the owners. But they are, it is a good ownership situation. Well, that doesn't matter. It's what Kevin Durant thinks.

Fair enough. I mean, so ironically, how screwed up the NBA is now, the Warriors just announced that they're going to retire Kevin Durant's jersey. I have that on my list of things you want to talk about. And he's about to maybe sue them for a remarkable amount of money for involving his injury. Now, what the Nets did is bold, and I know this is a minority opinion. I would love to see how they could possibly prove, I guess it would be negligence, right, in some sort of lawsuit against the team. What would it be?

It would be a trainer, maybe. It would be a trainer or a team doctor. Yeah, of course it would. That, to me, given the drama that played out during these playoffs, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes, obviously. We don't know what was said to Kevin Duran. I bet that would be a hard. Unless they can prove that something was hidden from them.

Okay. I mean, they could easily do that. Does it seem like the Warriors to have hid something from Kevin Duran to get him to play? I think any professional sports teams. All right, maybe I'm naive. It doesn't seem that way to me. But what the Nets did, I know everyone is salivating over it, I think it's insane.

for two reasons. First of all, I think, I don't know how as a human being with a brain, you can force yourself to write a check to Kyrae Irving for that kind of money. I agree. I mean, he is going to kill that organization. And to give that amount of money to that insane of a figure would just go against everything, I believe. The other thing is, I don't care how great Kevin Durant is.

I'm not investing that kind of money in a guy who just tore his Achilles tendon and won't be 32. I mean, he won't come back until he's 32. I'm not doing that either. So both of the things that you just said about Kyrie and about Durant, I don't disagree with it. The Durant thing, you know, you do have to remember that his game is not reliant on his speed, athleticism, etc. as much as other players like John Wall. Right. You know, so.

I get it. He can still stand out there and drill three. There's still a chance he could come back and be pretty close to Kevin Durant. I totally agree with you on Kyrie Irving. He is a phenomenal talent. He's a loser in my view. And I don't think that this move by Brooklyn, these moves will pay off in the form of a title. That would be my guess.

But I certainly respect the hell out of them for going down that path. Because if you don't go down that path, you're definitely not going to win a title. At least they put themselves in the, we got a shot in 2021. Now, I don't like the mix of Durant. I don't, I think Durant, and I know he won a title and won two MVP's as the lead guy.

Many of you followed up with me on Twitter, and I said he's not going to win a title as the primary lead. Remember, Clay Thompson and Steph Curry and Draymond Green, that's a team of like, you know, two and a half leads, you know, on a team. I'm talking about in Brooklyn, he's going to be the guy, the go-to

guy, with Kyrie playing second fiddle, which may be a better situation for Kyrie. And I don't know, we've already seen that it didn't work in Oklahoma City. You know, with Harden and Westbrook on the same team. But what was I going to say?

What I was going to say is that I just I still think it's 100% the right thing to do. And if my team had done something like that and it rolled the dice on Kevin Durant's injury and on Kyrie Irving's, you know, mental, you know, state and in locker room decorum, I would still be a lot happier today than acquiring second round picks. I can't argue with that. It's just not the way to get it done. The way to get it done potentially is the way Brooklyn did it.

I don't know if it will for them, but they've got a chance now. The Wizards have no chance. way, on the Durant thing, when I read this yesterday, my immediate reaction was, they're going to retire his jersey? He was there for three years. And then by the way, he's hightailing it out of town and kept you at bay each one of these years with free agency. And yes, what did he win? Did he win two MVPs? Two MVPs, three finals and two championships. And two championships. But three years. How many years did playing OKC, six or seven? At least. Yeah. I think OKC should retire his jersey.

This is insane. You agree with me? Oh, absolutely. It's ridiculous. Here's my question for you guys. I think it's funny, actually. I mean, if Alex, let's say Alex Smith came in here as the quarterback, he had three good years, two Super Bowls and two Super Bowl MVP's. Do you think the Redskins would put them up in the Ring of Honor? Definitely. I think it's apples and oranges though. But what if Alex Smith? came to the Redskins after they had already won one Super Bowl.

That's what the point I was going to make is that Kevin Durant got to an already championship team. They had already won one, should have won the second, by the way. And, you know, he made that team better. He made it an even better championship team, but it was already a championship team. Yeah. So it's apples and oranges. The next player that leads the Redskins to a Super Bowl, if it's a. one-year player, you know, he's going into the ring of honor. But I just, when I read that I'm like,

Durant's jersey, you know what it also speaks to? It, in this may play into what you were talking about with the medical. Remember how overly apologetic and, you know, incredibly crushed they were over the Durant injury like we'd never seen an injury. And I said to you, there's some, and I said to, And I said to you, I said, God, it sounds guilty. It sounds like guilt, which, you know, it plays into what you were just talking about. And this is also some level of guilt associated with the injury. We're going to retire his jersey. Oh, Kevin Durant, one of the greatest warriors of all time.

Really? I, if I'm a fan of that franchise, I don't think I'd want Kevin Durant's jersey retired. I'd want somebody to wear number 35 next year. after he left us. I agree. I think it's foolish. I think it is funny, though. Very funny.

I'm wondering how many players have had jerseys retired after three or less fewer years? I'm sure. How long was Moses Malone? How long was Moses Malone in Philadelphia? How many years did he play in Philly? I mean, it was more than three, right? Before he ended up in Washington. I'm going to look that up real quickly.

It was four seasons. It was four seasons in Philly? Yes. Yeah, here's Moses played seven years in Houston, and by the way, took them to the NBA finals in 1981. They lost to the Celtics. And then won it all for the Sixers and for Dr. Jay. I mean, without Moses, Dr. Jay never gets a ring. You do agree with that even though you're the biggest Dr. Jay fan.

Without Moses, Dr. Jay would have never got the ring. I agree. Okay. So he was in Philadelphia for four seasons. Looks like five here. He had one at the end of the year. He had four, went to Washington, went to a ring. Atlanta, went to Milwaukee, then came back to Philly.

Look, this is all subjective stuff. Earl Monroe was with the bullets for four seasons. He played with the Knicks for nine years. Yeah, I don't remember. I'm not old enough to remember Earl Monroe as a Baltimore bullet, but I certainly am old enough to remember him in his final years as a Nick because they played the bullets in the playoffs when the bullets got to Washington a couple of years. Yeah. So, I mean, so Earl's number is retired by the Wizards.

Yeah. And rightfully so. I understand that. Yeah. So the whole number thing, it's very subjective. It's very complicated. But this one seems like a stretch. In context right now, it seems like the Warriors are, you might be right. Maybe they feel like they really effed this up somehow. Moses has his jersey retired in Philadelphia and in Houston.

I would think so. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Not in Washington, no. No. When he came here for like two or three years, whatever it was. All right, quick word. I want to get to some Redskins stuff and also the Colin Kaepernick story.

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Doug Williams said, I know there's words out there that Haskins might end up starting, and that could happen, but at the end of the day, that's going to be on Jay, myself, and probably Bruce, and the owner, and what he does during preseason and to see where we are as a team to make that decision, closed quote. What was your reaction to it? I'm sure you've had a chance to talk about it on radio.

What have you said? Well, my first reaction was, and of course, you know, it's always interesting to watch the amount of Kool-A that has been consumed in this town, both by fans and the media. You know, I read some reactions early that said, this is no big deal. This is the way teams do it all over the NFL. Yeah, that's not true. Well, of course it's that. But you read the same thing. I didn't read that.

I heard and read. I had people say to me on Twitter because I saved my comments for yesterday's show that this, whenever you have a first round pick, it's always an organizational thing. That's not true when it comes to the actual decision on if he's ready to play and when he plays. Yes, this is my point. At least it's not by my. So this notion that this is normal, okay, we are, you guys are so diseased as the fan base. the media that you've come to the conclusion that this is normal NFL behavior. Well, it's not.

It's normal for the owner and the general manager and the coach to talk about the quarterback. Right. To have discussions about whether or not he should start. That's right. But ultimately, one guy has to make the call that says he's my starting quarterback for the first game of the season, and that has to be the coach. anybody else is dysfunctionally Redskins. I mean, so this notion that they can pick this, the starter by committee is ludicrous. That's ridiculous.

I mean, look, Dan Snyder's going to decide who starts quarterback. It's not going to be the coach. And you're going to have to live with it. Yeah, I mean, we agree. I mean, I said yesterday that there's one conversation that is a group conversation. And it goes like this. let's all agree as a group that he's going to play when he's ready and he's not going to play if he's not ready. Let's all agree that we're not going to rush him out there if he's not ready.

We have time. We're going to be patient. We're not rushing this thing. That may be a group conversation, an organizational conversation. But determining when he is ready to play quarterback in the NFL is for the coach to decide. It's not for Dan and Bruce to get all ginned up over Dwayne Haskins going eight for nine in the second half of a preseason game against the Browns against their third stringers to say, hey, Jay, he was great. He's ready, isn't he? That's not what we want. And by the way, that possibility exists with this owner. Okay, that possibility exists that the owner will be sold watching preseason games or watching training camp that he's ready, even if the coaching staff says no he isn't. How do I know that? Because the football people told him, no, not at number

15. And he said, yes, at number 15, that's where we're going to take him. He's already proven recently, many times in the past, but he's already proven recently that the opinion of his football people is not the final opinion. It's not the final say-so on football-related issues. He had the final say-so at number 15 in the draft in April, and he's probably going to have the final say-so on this. Yes. Now, one particular, you know, position on this is sort of interesting to consider when it comes to the organization being more involved in this decision than maybe in most cases in the

NFL, and it goes like this, Jay Gruden's a lame duck. We've got to do what's in the best interest of the organization long term because Jay Gruden's not going to be here. And if you feel that way and you want the organization making the decisions because you feel like Jay in his lame duck status may make the wrong decision, that's fair. But I would then ask you, what the hell is Jay Gruden doing here now in the first place then? There you go. I mean, why are we wasting a year of Jay Gruden with this new quarterback, unless you think it's all about Kevin O'Connell? And he's the next head coach. Yeah. And there you And here's the other thing, too.

I mean, if Dan Snyder is thinking about selling tickets, and if Jay Gruden thinks that their best chance to win games this year is Case Keenham, then as the owner, wouldn't you welcome that? Or unless the owner sits there and think, no, my best chance to sell tickets is Dwayne Haskins at quarterback. It doesn't matter how we're not going to win that many games anyway. So, I mean, my best chance to sell and merchandise this team is Dwayne Haskins. Whereas the coach who's coaching for his job, if he is, you know, there's a possibility that that Jay Gruden just could do K-ser-rah-sor-a-rah, you know?

Look, I don't know how involved Dan Snyder is going to be in this decision or Bruce Allen's going to be in this decision as we get through the next two months, you know, leading up to opening day. But to say that it's either normal that they are super involved, that's not correct, or to say that, come on, eventually they're going to defer to the coaches, and not to think that it's a possibility that he could trump the coach's thoughts and what the coach believes is best. You're naive as hell. Like, you haven't paid attention. I'm not saying he will. He may back off. He may have done what he wanted, and that is to get Dwayne Haskins into the organization. He felt very strongly about it at 15 on the board that they needed a quarterback, that Dwayne Haskins was the guy, and he put his foot

down and said, sorry, we're taking him right here. That happened. That doesn't necessarily mean that he's going to put his foot down and say, uh-uh, he's playing. All right, we need to sell tickets. I need him in the starting lineup. I need you to announce that he's in the starting lineup. It doesn't mean that I think he's going to do that, but to suggest that it's not a possibility is incredibly naive. Of course it's a possibility with this owner. Again, look, I don't know how we've come to this place in the world,

but we've come to a place in the world where what you've done doesn't seem to matter. And that way, it's like your track record used to be how you were judged. And Dan Snyder's track record in this is, of course he's going to interfere. He's done it before. I mean, it's the only thing you can have to judge him by as to what he's done, not what you think he's going to do, but we've so suspended belief these days in what people have done. And we just don't take it seriously. Instead, we buy into this notion that what we think they're going to do and ignore everything that they've done. I mean,

I know this is kind of going a little abstract here, but we've done this with a lot of things. and that's what you're doing. If you think Dan Snyder is not going to be involved, you're basing it on some sort of change in the way Dan Snyder does business. And there's nothing in his background to indicate that will happen. Right. No, again, I'm not predicting that it's going to happen,

but I know it's a possibility that it's going to happen. Maybe all he wanted was just to ensure that they had a quarterback of the future and that maybe he believes, look, Jay May, what if it's the, what if the argument that we've been suggesting could happen, or the debate, or the trumping of a decision, a coach's decision, what if it's the opposite? What if Jay says in mid-August, this dude's ready? He's going to give us a better chance, even as a rookie, than case or cold. And Dan says, I don't want to rush it.

Maybe he's got a concern about the schedule. Yeah. Maybe he's got a concern that, you know, I'd rather sell on the coming. here for a little while and be patient. That could possibly be a result of all this. It doesn't seem like it would be, but I don't know what's going to happen, Tommy. I do know this, though, sort of switching subjects on the same topic, but discussing how it was handled. They've got to keep Doug from stepping all over himself in these interviews. The answer Doug needed to give was Dwayne's coaches will let all of us know when Dwayne is ready to play.

Period. It's their call. Even if that's not true, that should be the answer. And they're just, they continue to completely mystify me as to why Dan's been a supposed customer and marketing business guy and his public relations year over year over year is handled so poorly. They just cannot get a message out that ever makes them look good.

Rarely, can they? And Doug, we love Doug, but every single time Doug does an interview, doesn't it seem like there's some sort of news that comes out of it? And maybe that's the goal. Maybe their PR strategy is any discussion's good discussion. But that could have been, you know,

the discussion would have still been there had he said, you know what, Dwayne's looked really good, and Duane's coaches are happy with his progress, and they'll let us know when he's ready to play, period. Yeah, there's always a better way to handle this than the way to Redskins do it. It seems to be always. It seems like we've always got better answers for him.

I think we could do it better than they do it. What else did I have? I did want to ask you real quickly about the Nats, because last week it was this big closing stretch before the All-Star Break Tommy and the opportunity they had with all-star. all these games against the Marlins, the Tigers, and the Royals, and they're taking advantage of it. They are back in contention. And I'm not just talking about, you know, a wild card. They're back

in contention in the division seven back in a game over 500. They had their second best June of all time as an organization. I know. And I think it was their fifth best month as an organization. They're a good team right now. With a weak bullpen, but a good team. Well, I mean, look, the offense has been healthy. But this Nats team has always sunk or swim based on their starting pitching. That's always been their safety net when they've struggled. And it wasn't there early in the season. I mean, the starting pitching was erratic, particularly once you got past the third

starter. They had nobody for fourth or fifth. But Annabel Sanchez, who it turns out I was right about all along since he's come back from the DL. They do have another half of the season to play. know, I know. I'm going to buy right for now. I was right about Annabelle Sanchez. And the starting pitching has, and Scherzer has just been otherworldly in terms of what he's been able to do. A reminder that we're very fortunate to be able to watch Max Scher pitch

in a Washington Nationals uniform. Now, but again, it's one thing to climb back to where they are and then it's another thing to climb ahead of who's ahead of you. And they're going to play the Braves a lot in the second half of the season. So they're going to have ample head-to-head opportunities to play the Braves. And the Braves are good. They're a good team. They have good offense. They have some young starting pitching,

not as good starting pitching as the nationals. And I maintain that this division is going to come down to who does what at the trading deadline. because the Braves and the Phillies will be very aggressive at the trading deadline in a quarry. And the Nats probably won't be. The Nats probably won't be big buyers. And the trading deadline prize for everybody is Madison Bumgardner,

the starter out of San Francisco, who's in the final year of his contract. Right. I mean, everybody will be bidding for his services as a rental player because not just is not just, is he a great pitcher, but he's the best postseason pitcher of his time.

And a game changer in a lot of ways. I would love to see the Washington Nationals trade for Madison Bumgarner. I know he's not a reliever. I know any relievers. But in that locker room, as

given as still lifeless as it can be sometimes, you're going to bring in a guy like Bumgarde who really is going to change a lot of, I mean, there could be some interesting moments, maybe some clashing between him and Scherzer to alpha males. But trust me, I mean, Bumgarner is, is the guy you want taking the mound. If Madison Bumgarner is pitching for the nationals in any of these postseason series,

they're moving on. Okay. So what's going to happen at the trading deadline is going to dictate as to whether the nationals we'll be able to catch the teams that are ahead in them. It's going to be at least they're back in it. And it could be a fun August and September. They could be in the midst of a legitimate pennant race, which they've never been since they got here.

Not once. But still, hanging over the whole thing is an unsigned Anthony Rendon beyond next season. And not only will the learners pay the price for not signing Rendon with their fan base if they let him go, that's when they'll pay the price for the Bryce Harper thing too. Because a lot of people lived with the Bryce Harper walking with the notion that, well, we'd rather see Anthony Rendon sign.

If you let Anthony Rendon walk as well, then you're going to pay for the Bryce Harper walk as well. All right, quick word about stamps.com and then I'm going to finish up with this Colin Kaepernick story. Stamps.com, if you're a small business, midsize business, small business is important for you. You need stamps.com. It's one of the most popular time-saving tools for small businesses. Stamps.com eliminates trips to the post office and saves money with discounts you can't get at the post office. It brings all of the amazing services of the U.S. Post Office right to your computer. Whether you're a small office sending invoices and online seller shipping out products or even a warehouse,

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Go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the top of the homepage, and type in my code. It's Kevin D.C. K-E-V-I-N-D-C. That's Stamps.com, Kevin, D.C. All right, there was this story this morning just before we went on the air, at least that's when I saw it, before we went on the air, before we started to record. the podcast about Colin Kaepernick and Nike. Nike basically pulled a shoe that was due to be released this week

that featured the original version of the U.S. flag on the shoe, the actual Betsy Ross version of the flag with the 13 stars representing the original 13 colonies. The shoe which was called the Air Max 1 Quick Strike 4th of July featured the logo of the original U.S. flag on the back of the shoe. The Wall Street Journal reported that Colin Kaepernick told Nike, and by the way, he's a Nike endorser now. Colin Kaepernick told Nike it shouldn't use that version of the flag, as he and others consider it an offensive symbol due to its connection to a time when slavery was legal. In a statement, Nike said it chose not to release the shoe

as it featured an old version of the American flag, close quote. That was it. Your reaction to this. Well, it's since been reported by several news outlets, which gives us a little bit more context. The Betsy Ross flag has been appropriated by the white nationalist group, Identity Europa, and the Ku Klux Klan, who use it to represent a time when slavery was legal.

in the United States. I mean, that gives it a little bit more context than what Colin Kaepernick is saying in the Wall Street Journal. If that's the case, then somebody at Nike really screwed up in the first place by going with this

and not doing this kind of research to know that this symbol had been appropriated by white nationalist organizations. Of all companies, you can't have Nike be in the midst of that. So I think, you know, I think there may be more to this story than just simply a company bowing to the whims of a lightning rod figure like Colin Kaepernick. He may have saved them. Well, he may have saved them, but to your point, they could have saved themselves before all of this.

Yes. If they had thought it out. And by the way, anything in this day and age with any business where you have, you have, you know, a flag involved, an anthem involved, anything, you know, that deals with nationalism or patriotism, you should really do a lot of due diligence. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't move forward with it. And I'm certainly a patriotic and nationalistic kind of. person. I love this country. I love what it's afforded me and my family and a lot of people feel

the same way. And I, and not to get into the anthem issue, but I respect all of the people that have lived and died for this country and continue to fight for this country. You know what I watched over the weekend real quickly when I got home? I had not watched us in a long time the Ken Burns World War II thing. I watched the first three episodes. I'm getting sidetracked here. It is so well done. Have you watched that? No, I have not. You've watched the Civil War one. No, I haven't watched the Civil War one either. Did you, did, was it you that told me that you didn't like Ken Burns? No, I didn't say that. Somebody told me that. No, it wasn't me. You know, that gets in the way of my Rockford file reruns. Oh, Jesus. Anyway, the World War II thing is excellent. I'm three episodes

and I watched it, I think, when it first came out. Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked here. Without getting sidetracked, real quick. If you're in New Orleans, go to the World War II Museum. I haven't been to it in New Orleans. Oh, my God. Unbelievable. So anyway, this stuff to me, even though, I just think if you're a business with customers of all kinds of customers with all kinds of beliefs, this is the kind of thing you could easily avoid with a little bit of thought. No one's expecting you to come out with this.

You know, I don't know how well the shoe would have sold or not sold. Basically, what you're thinking, what they're doing is you need to think about all these things. Of all companies, they are trying to capitalize and make money on patriotism. Let me just say what my initial thought after reading this story was. And again, I'm open-minded and I'll consider all these things, including the information that you just gave me. But that is that Nike is an American company. It's an iconic American brand.

And there's nothing wrong at all with celebrating our nation's independence. with a flag on a shoe, no matter when that flag was. Yeah, but it's never that simple. Well, sometimes it is that simple, but I understand that everybody's got a different viewpoint. And I'm open-minded, but I just, I mean, to decide that the Betsy Ross flag is unworthy of being celebrated on a shoe, I just need more information as to why it's it's so awful. By the way, am I right about this,

that Colin Kaepernick, it was never about the flag with him. It was never about the anthem. It was about the message that kneeling during the anthem that he wanted to get out about how young African American men were treated in this country by the police in particular.

And he made it a point that this was not a shot at the American flag or the anthem or the people who have died and fought for, you know, for all of us. And this is him making it about the flag. And are you saying that he's making it about the flag? Because the KKK uses the original flag as some sort of symbolism for a time when slavery was legal? That's the reports that's coming out.

And it goes to the reports, what they should have done is I asked Colin Kaepernick before they came up with this. I mean, somebody should have done their homework. I agree. You know, I mean, because you can't. Look, you can't have Nike issue a special sneaker that becomes KKK uniform wear. Right. You can't do that. Right.

So, I mean, I understand why they're making this decision. I mean, Nike, look, Nike makes a living on being a counterculture company. I mean, they like the outlaws. That's what they market to, the outlaws, but not these kind of outlaws. Right. No, I hear you. I do. I mean...

And we'll find... Well, I'm sure we'll hear more... And by the way, the way you just said it, it, you know, it strikes much more of a logical, if not emotional chord. And that is the thought that this particular shoe would be celebrated by a group like that. Yeah. A group as awful as that. That's offensive in itself.

Because it shouldn't represent that. It should not represent that. No. But it really is. It's sort of stupid in this thing. age to, you know, to come up with some sort of special marketed product, you know, in your product line that deals with things like flags and anthems and, you know, anything political, anything social, and not do enough sort of due diligence to understand that some people,

even maybe a few, might be offended and it could turn into an ugly, public relations story. I will guarantee you, though, there will be a lot of pushback from people saying they should not have pulled the shoe. I think Arizona has already been pretty, the governor of Arizona

has basically ordered the state to withdraw incentives that they offered for Nike to build a plant in Goodyear, Arizona. That's the guy, the Republican governor there. Ducey, yeah. So they've already gotten some pushback on that, You know, we see it in all walks of life, Kevin, and I say it to, I'm blue in the face in that people, people don't seem, people in decision making areas have a level of arrogance in all walks of life where they don't run it through their, whatever they call that department. And if they don't have one, they should.

What will people think department? You know? Really. Right. I mean, I mean, I mean, in this day and age, you can call it the noise department. What will the noise be if we do this? Right. I mean, in this day and age, in the decision-making process, somebody says, send it over to the

what will people think department so we can check on what will people think. And you know what? In this particular case, it would come back with, you know what, women are going to love this shoe because they're going to want to celebrate Betsy Ross. And then someone else is going to say, yeah, but did you know. know the KKK is using the original 13 Colony 13 star flag that Betsy Ross, you know, created as sort of a symbol that could be offensive to some people. You need all of that.

You do need a what, what will people think department? That's what you need. And you need it for the Redskins. You know what? You know what you don't need it? Kevin Sheehan's show podcast. No. We don't need it here.

If you are in a consumer retail business that relies on consumers to pay for your product to keep you viable, you should probably have one of those kind of departments. You should. Now, if you're just rambling on a blog or, you know, yelling and screaming on a podcast, you probably don't need it. You probably don't need it. It's interesting. Boy, Kaepernick continues to keep in still nobody's interested. No. He's never going to pay in the NFL.

Correct me if I'm wrong. But that lawsuit was settled, right? No, he should have had opportunities. He should have been getting calls. Didn't he, didn't the NFL have to pay him like five or ten million bucks? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So supposedly whatever roadblock was in the way, supposedly is gone. Right. Nothing yet. And training camps start next month. Yeah. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's, these are, I mean, I certainly respect someone like Colin Kaepernick and the, you know, the balls that he has to take the stances that he's taken.

And, you know, that's what this, that's what this country is about. It's free speech. But it's not free of consequence. And for him, the consequence has been probably millions and millions of dollars in future NFL contracts as a backup quarterback. You know, for the consequence is. if he didn't take that bold stand, which he believed in, that he probably would have earned a lot more. Now, maybe he is earning now as a Nike spokesperson and in other ways and leveraging what he, in this, you know, this, this, this thing that he's built for himself. As a social change guy,

maybe he is making a lot of money in that way. But man, going into it, I bet, you know, I don't know if he understood that he'd never get another chance to play in the NFL. And personally, I've never felt like it was total collusion blackball. I never thought, I was a Colin Kaepernick fan when he was a starter. But by the time we saw him in his last few games, you know, in Miami, he's not a starter in the NFL. And so then it became, if you're an NFL team, do I want the chaos associated with Colin Kaepernick as a backup quarterback? I got better options without the chaos. Yeah. I mean, I think that that's, that is perhaps the real reason he's not in the league, that it wasn't this concerted blackball effort by NFL owners,

do not sign Kaepernick. It was team saying he can't start for me, so do I want the hassle that comes with having him in training camp if he's just going to be a backup? Oh, I think for a lot... But then the Redskins went out and signed Mark Sanchez. I know, I know. And look, I think for a lot of owners,

and this was the unwritten story about all this, is all these NFL franchises do business with their local police departments. Who do you think, you know, does the police escorts of the visiting teams to the stadiums? You know, who manns the security at local stadiums? The NFL and their local police departments have a very important working relationship. And police departments, at least through their unions, made it very clear. how they felt about Colin Kaepernick. Right.

So I think that, as much as anything, it was a business decision for these teams. Certainly certain teams in certain markets. Oh, yeah. All right, that was fun today. Cooley's going to be on tomorrow. He's going to call in from Wyoming. He'll be on the show tomorrow.

We won't have a show on Thursday. But that's the 4th of July. The 4th of July where we will celebrate our nation's independence. Yes. Which happened for those of you that don't know in 1776. Yeah, I might want to remind everybody. everybody who's watching their British TV shows and enjoying all the British comedians.

We could have lost that Revolutionary War. You know what? It's the Brits. We could have lost the War of 1812. It's the Brits who we beat. Remember that, people. Thanks for that. I'm still fighting that war.

Don't forget to rate us and review us on iTunes. If you haven't done that, subscribe also. It helps us. It doesn't cost you anything and tell people that haven't listened to the show that they can listen to it very easily at the Kevin Sheehan Show.com.

Thanks to Aaron. Thanks to Tommy. Foolies on tomorrow, enjoy the day.