The Kevin Sheehan Show - Snyder + London Fletcher's Take

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Kevin talked House Oversight/Reform Report in the open. Also some bye-week thoughts on the job Ron Rivera is doing. Then it was London Fletcher jumping on with Kevin to talk Commanders. Kevin had five NFL "Smell Test" picks to finish up the show.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Second and 10, Mayfield, to the end. Oh, to Jefferson. Is that possible?

Touchdown. You know, it's not crazy to say that that was one of the most improbable NFL comebacks and certainly one of the most unexpected final drives of a game that we've ever seen. I'm trying not to over exaggerate it because on Monday night we saw the Buccaneers rally from the same 16 to 3 deficit and come back and beat the Saints led by Tom Brady 17 to 16. But last night was different because Baker Mayfield was waived by the Panthers on Monday, signed by the Rams on Tuesday, had a short walk-through practice on Wednesday with the team. And then last night came into the game after the opening drive, John Wolford started the game for the Rams,

went three and out, and Sean McVay had seen enough, and he put Baker-Mayfield in there. He didn't do a lot for three quarters. They only had three points. And then inexplicably, you know, in the fourth quarter, he leads two long drives, the latter of which is an all-time drive. I'll explain that in a moment. He went 17 of 22 for 180 yards, including the game when he passed to Van Jefferson, with 10 seconds to go. To give them a 17-16 win, by the way, ending for all practical purposes, any kind of hope that the Raiders had to make a run.

They had won three games in a row and had a lot of people believing that they could make a big run back into postseason contention. They were really good offensively in their last three games. But last night, Baker Mayfield produced two memorable drives. the second of which was all time, and I'll get to that in a moment. The first one, 17 plays, 75 yards to make it 16 to 10 with 3 minutes and 19 seconds left. Then after a 64-yard punt by the Raiders was downed at the 2-yard line, there's a minute 45 left, no timeouts, and Baker Mayfield drives them 98 yards on 8 plays

for the game winner. That 98-yard drive was the longest go-out. touchdown drive in the final two minutes of an NFL game in 45 years. Now, I don't know what game produced a 98-yard go-ahead game-winning drive in the fourth quarter back in 1977. But what I'd love to know is, did that team have any timeouts? Because the Rams did it without any timeouts, which is really the amazing part, which meant that the Raiders had to help out. And they did. The Raiders had two off-sides penalties,

by the way, on the drive that made it 16 to 10. One was on a fourth and three punt, so the Rams then put the offense back on the field. And the other was on a third down and four. And then on the final drive, Baker Mayfield gets sacked with about a minute 20 to go. And Jerry Tilleri, a Raiders defensive lineman, is called for unsportsman-like conduct. After he got sacked, Mayfield jumped up, tried to hand the ball to the referee to get it spotted so they could run the next play, and Tilleri knocked the ball out of Baker Mayfield's hands and got flagged for it. That was a massive play in the final drive. And then the other thing, by the way, you need help to pull off a minute 45, 98 yards, no timeouts. When they got down into scoring range, Mayfield made several

big-time throws. The Raiders played press man coverage with 15 seconds to go and the ball at their 23-yard line. Are you kidding me? Even Mayfield said after the game, he said, I looked out there and I saw press man coverage and I'm like, what are they doing? Why aren't they playing in zone? Why aren't they playing, you know, basically five-yard lineish-ish, you know, hoping that we throw one over to the middle, they make a tackle and the clock runs out? They played press man coverage in Jefferson beat his man and Mayfield threw a ball that was a dime. And the Rams won 17 to 16. Here's something I wonder if you guys knew because I didn't know this before the game last night.

But it was very interesting for me to hear Herb Street and Al Michaels talk about it. And then to read about how Baker Mayfield, when he was released on Monday by Carolina, immediately made a plane reservation for Los Angeles. He had a hunch that the Rams were going to sign him. Now, you know, there was some discussion as to whether or not the 49ers would sign him. You know, the Kevin Stefansky, Gary Kubiak, Shanahan connection. The 49ers losing Jimmy Garoppolo, needing to start their seventh round rookie, Brock Purdy.

Would they make the move for Mayfield? But Mayfield knew and had a hunch that it would be the Rams. Well, why did he have that hunch? Well, it was told last night on the air, and then there is a story written about it, a story or two written about it. So back in 2018, when Baker Mayfield had just finished at Oklahoma, he was on his way to the Indy Combine on a Southwest Airlines flight,

a flight that Sean McVeigh was on. The Rams had coach. Now, the Rams had Jared Gough, and they had played well. Sean McVeigh was sitting in a Southwest Airlines seat, which we all know first come first serve. You know, you get put into those, you know, it's seating numbers, you know, A, B, C, and then numbers, and you get on and you find a seat and it's first come first served.

It is a general admission seating. And apparently, Ian Rappaport at the time, tweeted out, spotted on the way to Indy, OU, Oklahoma quarterback, Baker Mayfield, in a middle seat right next to Rams coach Sean McVeigh on a Southwest Airlines flight. McVeigh was seated first. Mayfield hustled to sit next to him. And so the story was told last night that Sean McVeigh actually had somebody in the seat next to him and asked if that person didn't mind moving so that Baker Mayfield could sit next to him. Now, the Rams did not have a pick capable of selecting Mayfield.

But the story is that they just started talking football and that Sean McVey became very interested in Baker Mayfield, that he was really impressed with how much he loved ball, how much he knew ball. And by the way, I'm saying that in a way that Cooley would say it, because that's where we first started to hear five, six, seven years ago. Cooley would say, you got to love football, man, you know, and he would talk about certain guys, not necessarily by name,

but he would mention some of those players to us. behind the scenes and he'd say, this organization is in Washington just doesn't do its job in finding out whether or not the people they're signing or the people that they're drafting really are the right fits psychologically, you know, personality-wise.

And he's like, if you don't love football, if this isn't going to be your life, if you're interested in a lot of other things at the same level of football, then you're not, no matter how much talent you have, it's not going to work out. And so, you know, Cooley kind of introduced us to all of that. And then you hear all of the, you hear all the Shanahan guys talking about it. You know, Mike talks about it, Kyle talks about it, Sean talks about it, LaFleurr talks about it.

Mike McDaniel talks about it. Mike McDaniel talks about it. You know, guys who love ball. They're looking for absolute gym rats. That's what those guys are always looking for. and Sean McVey viewed Baker Mayfield as a gym rat. Now, obviously, it hasn't worked out for Baker Mayfield in the NFL, and there have been personality clashes with teammates and lots of stuff going on,

but maybe it's because he hasn't had a coach like Sean McVeigh. Like if Sean McVeigh can't make Baker-Mayfield work, well, then nobody is going to be able to make Baker-Mayfield work. But it's interesting that Sean McVeigh didn't know this, has always been a fan of Baker Mayfield and signed him during a three and nine season where they can't go anywhere. But who knows? I mean, Matt Stafford was injured. He's done for the year.

It's a UCL. A UCL, I think that's what it is. Elbow injury. And he may be, you know, impacted by this injury next year. But anyway, stunning finish to that game. last night, really. I don't think anybody saw that one coming and maybe a jump start to a career for Baker Mayfield when it's really seemed like in recent years he was on the verge of not having one. We'll see. Coming up on the show today, London Fletcher will be on. And then in the final segment,

I'll have my smell test and a few thoughts on Maryland's game Sunday in Brooklyn against number seven, Tennessee. If you listen to the radio show, you probably heard it. If you don't listen to the radio show, I did have Kevin Willard on the show this morning. He was excellent. So if you go to the Team 980.com, he was in the 7 a.m. hour, so the second hour of the radio show. By the way, speaking of Maryland and basketball, congrats to Brenda Freeze. Brenda Freeze won her 600th game in 20 years. It's amazing how quickly the time's flown. They beat Purdue last night with a shot at the buzzer. They beat Notre Dame a few weeks ago with a shot at the buzzer as well. So that's two buzzer beaters over Indiana-based teams, Notre Dame and Purdue. And they get Yukon Sunday at Xfinity Center. But Brenda Freeze, man, unbelievable career at Maryland with that one national championship, three final fours, I think, one. national championship back in 2006 with her win over Duke. By the way, for the Lady Terps this year, I'm just going to give a quick shout out, as the kids say, to Abby Myers. Abby had a big game

for the Lady Terps last night. Abby's a transfer from Princeton, and Abby played her high school basketball at my alma mater, Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda. It's funny, one of the teams I coached in recent years. We had Whitman as our practice facility, as one of our practice facilities. I know the men's head coach over there, the boys head coach really well. Chris Lund is one of the best coaches in the area. He does a phenomenal job. He's taken Whitman, all right, Whitman, to three state finals at Xfinity Center. Won it back in 2006, I think it was, but he does a great job. But anyway, he's a friend of mine and we've used their gym for practice for some of the teams that I've coached in recent years. And I don't know, it was six years ago, seven years ago,

something like that. We were waiting for the girls basketball team to finish up their practice before we walked out onto the floor. It was in their auxiliary gym actually. And the coach, and I'm forgetting his name, and I apologize for that. I know he's a very, very successful coach because the Whitman Girls program has been very successful. He came up to me and he said, see that girl down there? And I said, yeah, and he said, high level, high level division one college basketball player. And I can't remember what year she was. But I watched the end of the practice and was impressed and I think I saw our practice a few other times as we were waiting to get on the floor. But that was this Abby Myers, who turned out to be, you know, a highly recruited player, went to Princeton

and then transferred to Maryland for I think this is her senior year, and she's one of their best players on a team that's ranked 20th and plays Yukon at Xfinity Center on Sunday. So congrats to the Lady Terps and to Brenda Freeze, who really has had an incredible career at Maryland. All right, I do want to get to the Snyder thing, which I will get to here momentarily. I also want to talk a little bit about Ron Rivera

and the job that he's done. But before we get to that, don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple and Spotify. Apple, you can give us up to five stars as a rating and write a quick review. We got five stars from Drew CR. And when I read this,

you'll know that the CR stands for Costa Rica, which I'm very familiar with, and it's a beautiful place. Drew writes, I'm a D.C. native. that has lived in Costa Rica now for 30 years. Kevin and Tom together are my favorite podcast. Listen. Kevin's shows truly keep me connected to all iterations of the now commanders, glory days, and present.

But man, did you guys ever soil yourselves? Especially Tom, in parentheses, while talking about World Cup soccer. Just like a brainwired to speak English may never grasp how Mandarin works, your upper echelon sports brains, mostly trained in U.S. sports traditions, won't understand the joy of soccer until you actually live the cultural experience and see, feel, and celebrate,

and suffer together with compatriots what the game represents to all around you on the international stage, especially during the World Cup. Kevin, come on down to Costa Rica. I've been there for a world. World Cup qualifying match against the U.S. in a couple of years and will help shift your perspective. You may even end up a Tico fan. I guess that's the Costa Rica nickname Tico fan. And he says you might even end up a Tico fan just like Neil from Rockville.

Thank you, by the way, Drew, for the very nice rating and the nice review. and yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be hard. I've talked about this in all seriousness. Like I'm sitting here in my studio and I've got the Brazil Croatia game on. You know, it's nil-nil. And I am watching the game and I have it on here. I'm not watching it because I'm doing the podcast. But I have really, I have tried because I've had friends of mine, including my brother,

who has really said, you really got to give it a try. There is something to this that I think you're going. to like. We'll see. I still think that it can be boring, but I do like the pageantry, and I know I've been repetitive on this. I love how important it is to the rest of the world. And I've been in other places, not in this country, during big soccer events, like the World Cup. I was in Italy four or five summers ago during the World Cup. It would have been four summers ago. And I was in France once during one of the big euros. And I remember how pumped up and fired up everybody was. It's kind of cool. It's not football. It's not basketball. Not for me anyway.

Don't forget to rate us and review us if you haven't done that. It really does help. So before I get to the Snyder House Oversight Reform Committee, 79 pages, etc., etc., and to London Fletcher, I did want to just mention this. I did a segment today on radio where I asked callers, How do you feel about Ron Rivera right now? And by the way, do you want Rivera definitely back in 2023? Well, to me, he's going to be back. I mean, first of all, he's earned the right to be back. I guess they could lose the final four games, right?

And finish 7, 9, and 1 missed the postseason, and it's not that much better than last year or the year before, record-wise. I don't think that's going to happen. It could happen, but I don't think it's going to happen. But in many ways, he's kind of already earned it, regardless of who the owner is. But as a practical matter, and I do think the team is going to be sold by the Snyders, I think that that's progressing, not reporting that. But I do have a good sense that this is eventually going to happen.

And it would probably be finalized at the league meetings in March, and that's going to be too late for a new owner to clean house. They're probably going to ride with what they have. for 23, especially on the football side where you're in the midst of free agency, where you're, you know, getting ready for a draft. But I think Ron Rivera's earned it. You know, I think Ron Rivera, and I know that I was a bit of a Ron Rivera sycophant, I think that would be an exaggeration, but I was a Ron Rivera fan, and I was a fan of the hiring in 2020. I just always felt like Carolina's teams were tough, hard-nosed, disciplined, and good. And overachieved. I

always felt that too. And so I thought when they hired him, they had made a really good hire, especially given who they were and what they were able to attract. You know, maybe they gave him way too much in terms of responsibility, you know, giving him the whole kit and caboodle of, you know, team, you know, head of personnel, final say on everything, essentially, you know, the general manager position along with the head coach, even though they have, you know, Martin Mayhew, who was technically the general manager now. But, um, I was a fan of it. But like a lot of people, you know, earlier this season,

many of you felt like it was just confirmation of your original thought, which was that it wasn't a good hire and that he's not a good coach. And I did suggest that one and four that if they lost, or one and three, that if they lost to Tennessee and Chicago, that we were headed towards a season that would end with some sort of mutual agreement to part ways. You know, maybe they wouldn't pay all of the money, but there would be some sort of mutual parting of the ways.

And, you know, I kind of felt at that point, Ron may be a little bit overwhelmed as the personnel guy and talked about that. And that, you know, maybe his desire and his interest in being the head coach had kind of, you know, found its way to more of this CEO role, which wasn't necessarily working for him. So, yeah, I had become skeptical earlier in the year. but that was earlier in the year, and here we are. They've won six out of the last eight.

They tied one of the last eight, six one and one. In the last eight, seven, five, and one overall. And I feel pretty good about Ron Rivera. Do I think he's an elite coach, no. Do I think he's in the top ten of coaches, head coaches? No. But I do think he's in the top half of the league of head coaches. And I think his greatest strength is as a leader of that audience

in particular. Young men in a sports, on a sports team with a lot of players, a lot of different personalities. Ron Rivera is highly respected in the league and has always been very well liked and highly respected by his players. And I think what he's had to go through and navigate through, you know, during these first three seasons with what's been going on on the other side of the building, none of which or very little of which. He's had to. He's had to, to do with. I understand that Ryan Vermillion was his hire. You know, and the DEA rating the building a year ago October, you know, is partly on him because he made that higher. But, you know, having, obviously, the buffoon ownership and then having all, you know, one PR bungle after another with the new

group, you know, and he's had to, you know, deal with that. And he's had to make sure that the players were able to deal with that. And, you know, his saying, which is, you know, I try to get the players to focus on what's important, not what's interesting. That's been his, you know, that's interesting, but that's not important. What's important is this, that we practice well,

that we get ready for the next opponent, et cetera. And of course, I would rather they start quickly, rather than starting slowly each year, which has been a common thing for him over the years. but the turnaround started at least much earlier this year. Didn't start at 1 in 5 or 2 and 6. Started at 1 and 4, and they've gone 6 1 and 1. And they've got a chance to win 11 games if they ran the table down the stretch here for the first time since 1991.

Two more wins guarantees them their first winning season since 2016 when they went 8,7 and 1. And God forbid they win a playoff game. They haven't won a playoff game in 17 years. 17 years. It's been since they went to Tampa Bay and won a playoff game over Chris Sims and the Buccaneers. I mean, not that you guys needed to be reminded of that. I don't know. I think he's doing a really good job.

I think he's earned the right to be back next year. I don't think there's any doubt he's coming back anyway. But I think he's really good with kind of getting people all on board and not letting things go in the wrong direction when there's a chance that they can and with a lot of coaches they would. I also think that this team is tough. I think it's a tough team physically on defense.

I think it's a really good team on defense. And I think offensively they've got an identity right now. They are still limited. We know this. And, you know, the limitations of not being able to score enough will probably get them at some point here. You know, maybe once or twice down the stretch here in the regular season and maybe in a playoff game. But I like the job he's doing. All right.

Let's get to what was the big story of yesterday. And that is the House Committee on Oversight and Reform and the report that they released after. you know, a year, you know, over a year of investigating the Washington workplace and culture. So real quickly, though, I don't want to forget this. A few of you tweeted me yesterday, basically saying, why are we doing this? Why is the media doing this? This is a great season we're in the middle of, can't we just focus on football? I'm with you. I'm with you. But this has nothing to do with the media. I think most of you understand that, but for those of you who don't,

get ready because this is just the first of several. I mean, there are more hammers to drop. I mean, the Mary Joe White investigation, we haven't gotten that report. The Eastern District of Virginia, the criminal investigation, we've got lawsuits. I can't keep track of all of them. I know I say that

all the time, but I really can't. But we've known that these things are coming. I mean, with respect to the House Oversight and Reform Committee's report, we knew that it was going to come before January when the Republicans take over Congress. This has nothing to do with the media. This isn't a Washington Post expose on the commander's workplace or anything like that.

This is, we've all been expecting this. I guess everybody could have ignored it, but nationally, the national media would have never ignored it. But anyway, there are some really interesting comments because we got the entire testimony from Snyder's sit-down with Congress and Bruce Allen's as well. And I'll get to some of that. But for me, the big takeaways, and kind of the headline was Snyder permitted and participated in the team's longtime toxic workplace culture and obstructed a 14-month congressional inquiry, dodging a subpoena, working to dissuade and intimidate witnesses from cooperating and claiming more than 100 times in testimony that he could not recall.

answers to basic questions. All right. That's kind of your opening paragraph and headline. Here were my big takeaways. And then I'm going to read from some of the interesting, more football-related portions of the Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder testimony. And then, again, Howard Gutman will be on with us tomorrow and we'll get into much more of the legal stuff.

So takeaway number one for me was this confirmation via Bruce Allen's testimony. that Lisa Friel from the league office confirmed to him, and Bruce Allen said this under oath, that it was their belief that the leaks of the Bruce Allen emails to the Wall Street Journal in New York Times, which eventually doomed John Gruden's career, that those leaks came from the team. All right? We thought from the very beginning that the team was certainly one of the, you know, suspects for who leaked those emails. But according to Lisa Friel, through Bruce Allen's testimony, it was the team, not the league.

And so I want to start there because this is where, you know, over the course of many, many years now, we've talked about, and I've talked about, you know, incessantly, this impulsive streak, this inability to strategize as to, if we do this, what comes next, you know, that's never been their mode of operation. They are, you know, swing first, ask questions later, figure out the answers to whatever the ramifications are after it. And because of that, they've constantly gotten themselves into tangles over and over and over again. You know, that's not their biggest problem. Their biggest problem is an owner who's unwilling to ever take accountability. It's always been, as I've said, for years, it's always been someone else's fault. And this investigation

produced enough material once again. They're the victims. They didn't know what was going on. It was Bruce's fault. You know, and before it was Bruce, it was Vinnie's fault. And before it was Vinnie, it was Marty's fault or Spurrier's fault or Zorn's fault. It's always someone else's fault, not theirs. But what you get with the confirmation that they are the source of the leaks. And remember, the leaks initially went to the Wall Street Journal. And Tommy on the podcast mentioned the connection between Andrew Beaton, the reporter for the Wall Street Journal.

and Dan Snyder, because months before those emails were leaked to the Wall Street Journal, Beaton had written this embarrassing puff piece on Snyder. We talked about how just incredibly void it was of any factual information and a lot of big stuff that was just missed, and it was clearly a bought and paid for puff piece in the Wall Street Journal of all places. Amazing. But Beaten was then, a few months later, in October of 21, the one that started the process of breaking the Bruce Allen emails. And then the Times got a hold of it, and then, you know, Gruden was done.

Done. And we said at the time, you know, it makes sense. Snyder hates Bruce Allen, and he wants to blame Bruce Allen for everything that's gone on here. So if he makes Bruce Allen look like a homophobic and a misoom. and a misogynist and a racist, then all the fans will understand it was Bruce's fault. I'm not the bad guy. Bruce was the bad guy. But per usual, they just never think a few steps ahead.

This thing was for all intents and purposes in October of 2021. This was kind of a dying story. And the leaked emails brought Congress. into the equation. The Congress Oversight and Reform Committee decided to investigate the Washington

toxic workplace culture after all of those emails leaked. So Snyder brought on this investigation himself. If they are, unless Bruce Allen perjured himself, if they are the source

and they did leak this, and there are reasons to believe in connections to be made that would lead everybody to kind of have a sense that Bruce Allen's telling the truth here under oath that they were the source of the leaks

they did it to themselves again like because it was done now Congress gets involved a couple of weeks later initiating this investigation which leads to Tiffany Johnston

and Jason Friedman's testimonies in that roundtable and beyond, which leads to the Mary Joe White investigation, which leads to all of these attorney generals getting involved on the business stuff, which leads to just a mountain of, you know, thing after thing after thing that finally gets him to sell the team, finally gets the league to put the pressure on him to sell the team, finally gets Jim Mersey to speak up for all of the other owners. We can't stand this guy. Get him out. I mean, he did it to himself.

Now, as Tommy always says, the passage of time has never treated Dan Snyder or this organization very well. So whether it was leaking those emails, which turned out to be a boomerang, that came back and hit him upside the head, and really was the beginning of everything that we've gotten since, whether it was that or something else that he would have stepped into, of course, you know, something else would have happened. He would have had an unforced error with something else as well. But that was the beginning of what we have now. All of these investigations, all of these testimonies. You know, all of the, you know, they've settled now the lawsuit in Maryland. How did that happen? Jason Friedman's testimony.

How did that happen? Congress decided to investigate. Why did that happen? Because these emails leaked. You know, it's just, it's incredible that, but it's also, you know, for all of us, it's like, thank God, right? Thank God they're so stupid. Thank God they don't strategize.

Eventually it was going to bite them in a big way that they couldn't get out of, you know, and this is it. And I do think they're, you know, on the path of selling the team. I think it's going to happen. I do. And that's really the only thing that matters right now. All of this other stuff is not important to most of us. What happens to him after he has sold the team, I don't give a shit about.

You know, I do care that these things don't force him to dig his heels in, but I don't think it's going to now. I'm a little bit less concerned and I'm more relaxed on he's going to sell the team. But still, would he be in this position right now of being forced to sell? the team if we didn't have all of these investigations that really sprung from the leaks of the emails because the story was kind of dead. Now, when I say dead, there was always the, you know, the banks and cats and all of the victims and alleged victims and release the report, et cetera, et cetera. You know, that wasn't going to quiet down, but it had quieted down enough. Incredible. Like, he just, he did it to himself.

if Bruce Allen under oath was telling the truth. The second thing that really stuck out to me was the $10 million fine that the league put on Dan Snyder in the organization back in June of 21 as a result of the findings of the Wilkinson investigation. Remember, Roger Goodell had some very, very terse statements about misogyny and bullying and sexual harassment and toxic workplace, and then really, at least they thought, really lowered the boom with an

unprecedented $10 million fine. And by the way, Tanya Snyder is going to become the co-CEO and be more responsible and hands-on with the day-to-day responsibilities, implying that Dan had been suspended. And I remember Howard Gutman saying to us at the time, this isn't a $10 million fine. The team's just going to donate to charity. $10 million that the league tells them to, and they're going to write it off. It's going to be a benefit. And sure enough, what came out of this report was that Snyder's legal team negotiated the terms of the fine, allowing Snyder to pay $5 million to the NFL with the other $5 million

sent to approximately 22 charitable organizations within the Washington region, a deal that may have allowed the team to take tax deductions for its charitable contributions and payments to the league, thereby conferring a benefit to the commanders. So we certainly were made aware of this possibility by Howard Gutman back in June of 21. And sure enough, it's true. The team wasn't really find and remember Tommy and many other media members got calls from Dan Snyder lawyers saying, hey, don't write that he was fined. He wasn't fined. The team was fined. And Dan was not suspended, so don't write that. And when Tommy mentioned that, I remember sitting here with Tommy and saying, oh my God, they just don't get it. They should be begging for a severe penalty and punishment.

They need this thing. They need people to believe that this thing has real teeth to it. That the commissioner and the other owners are really coming down hard on Dan. But of course he can't do that. That would admit that he had culpability in this. It's never his fault. Make sure lawyers that you tell the media people in town that I wasn't fine. I didn't do anything wrong.

It was the team that did something wrong. and I have not been suspended. And all the time, the best thing that would have benefited him would have been, Dan Snyder was fined the largest amount in the history of the league $10 million and has been suspended for one year from being involved with his football team. His wife, Tanya Snyder, will take over the day-to-day operations. But no, he couldn't see a step ahead.

And it was one step ahead. because the reaction would have been, wow, they really got after them. Now, a lot of people wanted to see the findings of the Wilkinson report. You know, a lot of those women that came forward, came forward with the expectation that that report would be made public. And there were a lot of others who obviously came forward with the expectation that they would be protected and that whatever they said would be, you know, essentially redacted. or, you know, it would be anonymous. So you would have always had some of the push from that. But if he had been really severely punished, I said this at the time,

again, the thing would have gone away a little bit more. You know, like now that you know, like the perception was slap on the wrist, especially when Dan, you know, Dumb, was out there having his lawyers tell media people, you know, wasn't Dan, he wasn't fined. No, no, no, no. Dude, it's in your best interest to be punished. It's in your best interest for people

to think that you've been punished severely. You know, this is what people want. They want some blood for what you've done. Not just for what you've done with the toxic workplace, what you've done to our football team. But no, he couldn't, you know, he couldn't, take even that. Didn't think he deserved that. That's narcissism at the highest level. And it's so bad when it comes to strategy. The fact that he had people telling people in the media that he wasn't

fined, that he wouldn't really accept any of this, and that he negotiated it with the league. And remember, Goodell made this decision pretty much on his own without going to the executive committee, which was A big complaint from some of those owners in that maskey column from like seven months ago where the owners really felt like he wasn't punished enough for what the Wilkinson investigation found. But, you know, the problem is that he wouldn't allow himself to be punished that much. They, according to this, negotiated the terms of the punishment of the fine. When again, they should have all come together and said, no, no, no, no.

We need this to really feel big. You need to be punished and people believe to need to believe that you've been severely punished. Because after all, what does an owner being suspended really mean? I mean, with him, I don't know, you think he's not telling Tanya what to tell people when they're at home? I mean, if he had just taken a severe suspension, if he had thought two steps ahead or a step ahead on leaking the emails, he actually may still own the team. Or he does own the team. He may actually still not be in a position

where he's going to have to sell the team. It's really incredible. You know, for somebody that I've been told is so innately bright and intelligent, his lack of awareness, self-awareness, his inability to read the room, the dumb things that he and his organization have done, it's unbelievable.

But I guess if honestly, when you think about it, they would have done other stuff that would have eventually, I think, I hope, led to the situation we are now, which is, I think he's selling the team. But really, we have to be thankful that they were this dumb. Not thankful for the toxic workplace that they oversaw and allowed. And by the way, that's another big takeaway. Once again, somebody out there doesn't,

understand that a lot of the shit that happened that's been reported, that's been testified to, happened before Bruce Allen got there, dummies. Okay, he got there in December of 2009. Okay, you have so many other things that happened that, that clearly, you know, you can draw a picture of how awful the workplace was. I mean, you had Michelle Tesier, a PR, director from 2000 to 2004 who just said things that went on there weren't even normal. You had a headhunter in Virginia, you know, in the early 2000s that stopped sending employees part-time or full-time to the Redskins because of how their employees were treated in the organization. I mean, the guy David Pawkin worked for the organization from 2001 to 2006.

A lot of the Jason Friedman stuff is prior to Bruce Allen. getting there. It still amazes me that nobody says, hey, maybe we should shut up on the Bruce Allen thing, okay, and just say, you know, for a long period of time and not define it, Dan wasn't hands-on, but this report definitely describes a situation in which he was hands-on. And that'll lead me to this, and then we'll wrap it up and get to London Fletcher. There were several pieces of testimony from both Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder's, down with Congress that were more football related. Now you might ask, well, why were they asked football questions? I think what they were trying to do, what Congress was trying to do, is they

were trying to establish Dan's involvement in the organization. Because he so tried to say, I don't know, I wasn't there. You know, a hundred times saying that he didn't really have an answer for their question because he didn't know. He wasn't aware of any of it. They were trying to established that he was actually much more involved. And so they got in to some of the football situations. And I wanted to, maybe some of you have read some of these already, but one of them had to do with Trent Williams in the Trent Williams saga. And in Bruce Allen's testimony, there's a question that reads as follows. So there's a series of emails that you started on June 5th, 2019. It's an excerpt from an article about Trent Williams not being at mini camp. And the article

states that Williams is upset with how the team's medical staff handled a recent health scare. And there's a little bit of a conversation about it. And then you say, as in Bruce, let the games begin. And so, you know, essentially, what did you mean by that? And so Bruce says the Trent Williams situation, you're simplifying a little bit too much. Trent did have a problem with the medical staff. He was upset at the dock for not discovering that he had a medical issue. And he couldn't put a helmet on to be at minicamp, but he was holding out because he wanted a new contract from the team. And Trent and I had a great relationship until all of this and still did during this time, especially during this time. And we could have resigned him. He's an elite player. He's a great

football player, great football player. And Dan said no. He said not. one dime. Find him the max. And that's what we did. So the memory of the Trent Williams saga was when Trent Williams finally reported, remember he had to do it in October of the following season or he wouldn't, you know, earn the right to, for his contract to count as a contract year. I'm forgetting the term for that. Anyway, tolling contract, I think. Anyway, Trent really put the blame on Bruce Allen publicly and said he's still all good with Dan. And that was, you know, where we said, there's Bruce being petty. Although, to be honest with you, and I've said this many times, I think this story on the Trent Williams situation was more an equal sharing of blame.

I think Trent has some areas here, which perhaps he hasn't been completely forthrighted. about with respect to what happened during that time. I can tell you this, and I said it at the time, that they're all pissed off with him. Dan, Bruce, everybody. Well, apparently Bruce says he wasn't pissed off, but Dan was, because they had had Trent's back. Remember, during the marijuana suspensions, one of those during the 2016 season in which they were making a playoff push and he missed four games during that stretch. And so Dan had had it with him. You know, no way. We're not giving this dude a new contract, you know? And he's got to start, stop saying things that we're medically, basically, you know, we got all these issues with our medical staff, whatever. But interesting,

right, that, you know, Bruce Allen under oath said, no, Dan was the one that killed the Trent Williams thing and said not one dime. My belief, big picture on players like Trent Williams, Kirk Cousins, Brandon Sheriff to a lesser degree because he had a different coaching staff. I think players with options and smart guys that looked at this organization wanted out. I don't think they wanted to be here. I think Trent wanted to be in a winning organization somewhere where he could win and he knew he wasn't going to win here. I think when Sean McVeigh left and we've been through the Kirk Cousins thing many times,

but I think Kirk just realized this was not the group of people he wanted to be around. I think a lot of adult players realized. that this was a group of buffoons that they just didn't want to be around and end up, you know, putting their careers into the hands of. So I think Trent got what he wanted, which was out, you know, if Washington, and probably knew Washington wasn't going to give him the big contract extension, even though Bruce says that they were willing to do it and he wanted to resign him. So that was one thing. there was a Dan Snyder Q&A on his involvement in the acquisition of Carson Wentz

and again I think what they were trying to establish is how involved were you really question were you Dan Snyder involved in acquiring quarterback Carson Wentz Dan's answer no it was actually Martin Mayhew's entire strategy I called Martin after congratulating him I was ecstatic about it and they called me prior to the move and said, we're doing this, and I jumped for joy.

Question, beyond congratulating him and jumping for joy, what, if anything else, was your involvement? They called up, we own the club, me and Tanya, and both Tanya and I called Carson Wentz and congratulated him, went to dinner with Carson and his wife to welcome him to D.C. at our home. Is it your testimony that you were not heavily involved in acquiring Carson Wentz as a quarterback? No, I was not heavily involved in it. No. Were you you moderately involved. I was updated and kept informed and supported the decision, closed quote. I just think it's funny. He jumped for joy. Like obviously this testimony that he gave was before the season started. And, you know, it was probably right around the same time he told the Maryland

Gaming Authority that, you know, that they finally got, we finally got our quarterback. He's just such a mark, isn't he? I mean, such a mark. There was something else in here that I wanted to read. Oh, here it is. Bruce Allen was basically asked about Dan Snyder's involvement in the football day to day. So the question was, just so the record is clear, what would you consider or what did you consider it at the time? A significant contract amount for which Mr. Snyder would have needed. to be notified or involved. And Bruce said, well, he wanted to be notified about any signing or any acquisition.

He wanted to be notified about it. But I'm not saying that that's bad, he said. That's his right to run his business how he wants to. But I would say anything over $2.5 million. But the cap has increased so much, so I don't really know what the number is these days. When you say $2.5 million, is that from 2019? Would that be significant? Anything over $2.5 million?

Is that considered significant back in 2019? and he says, oh, yeah, yes. So the record is clear when you say Mr. Snyder wanted to be notified about signing and any acquisition, in your opinion, is that different than requiring approval? He wanted to know about all of them. But if it was a significant number or salary payment, he would and could approve or disapprove. And then came the last part of this. A little Q&A about his involvement in the football decision making, is it related to, you know, players being signed.

free agency or draft. They say, did you have the ability to engage in personnel selection decisions relating to the free agency in the draft without Mr. Snyder's approval? And Bruce answered, the first two rounds, he wanted to make sure that he approved them, approved of them. Rounds five through seven, you know, I don't think he paid attention to. I don't want to say that's improper.

He just wasn't familiar with those players that you're selecting later in the draft. So the first two rounds, as we know, go back to the 2019 draft, the one that he hijacked and had the football people do something that they didn't want to do, which was take the late Dwayne Haskins with their first overall pick. God, there's a lot more. and maybe you've read some of it. There's a part where he claims to have told, claims to have told Ron Rivera to stop calling him Mr. Snyder. Obviously, we have for years said,

why does he insist on having people call him Mr. Snyder? Well, apparently, you know, he was asked about, you know, do people not look at you, or are they told not to look at you in the building, or are they told to call you Mr. Snyder? and he goes off on this tangent saying, I've actually called Ron to say, stop calling me Mr. Snyder in these press conferences,

but Ron won't stop doing it. He actually didn't answer the specific question that was asked, but I thought that was interesting too. Lots of stuff in here. But again, you know, for me and for a lot of you, it's just now about him selling the team and about him following through the process, of selling the team and getting out.

Okay, more on this tomorrow with Howard Gutman. It'll be good to get his opinion on it. Up next, London Fletcher, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. Joining us on the podcast right now is the great London Fletcher, who of course had an all-time career here in Washington as a player, but is also part of the team's broadcast team with Bram Weinstein and Julie. Donaldson as the game analyst. Look, I think the last time we talked was early in the season.

And, you know, there were a lot of questions about what this team was going to be and it hadn't started out well. So I'll start with this. What to you marked sort of the big turnaround from one and four to this six one and one run in a seven, five and one record? What's responsible for more than anything else. You know, I would say if I had to, if you say, hey, pick one thing, I think it's probably the defense is being able to get takeaways. And, you know, that's really been the biggest factor, I want to say. I think they're going to have 14 turn-off takeaways now.

15, yeah, 15. 15, okay, 15 takeaways over the last, what, 7 or 8 games. Well, I think it's like 12 out of the last five or six games, but it's significant because the first few games, the turnovers that were generated, two of them were muffed punts. So they've had like 11 or 12 of them over the last six weeks, yeah. Yeah, and that's what I was talking about, you know, those 12, 13 takeaways have come during this, you know, when it's six out of their last eight games.

It's been that's been the big difference. But also, you know, if you ask me to what's the second thing, the commitment to running the football, they've been doing at a high volume, you know, rushing the football for, I don't know, almost 38 times a game, 36 times a game. And that's the way of being more efficient in the offense, not being sacked as much, not turning the football over as much. So those two things, time of possession, they've really dominated time of possession. but you run the football effectively, you take the ball away,

and then, you know, you won a six out of your last eight. All right, you haven't mentioned a name that a lot of people will mention, and I will get to his name here in a moment, but I want to stick with the defense for a moment, because, boy, you nailed something that's so important. We all as NFL fans understand that if you end up with a high turnover margin, more likely than not you're going to win more games than you lose, and you're going to have a chance to make the postseason,

and they've gotten all of these takeaways in recent weeks. But defensively overall, what changed? Because the first two games against Jacksonville and Detroit weren't that good. I thought it actually started to get better against Philadelphia in week three. They started to stop the run that week. But what would you credit for the turnaround defensively from early in the season? I think the back end is playing a lot better. You know, obviously there have been some changes personnel-wise.

and, you know, reached up and shuffling of the deck, so to speak. William Jackson, he's no longer there having been traded. But, you know, Benjamin St. Juice really has started to emerge as a really ascending young player. Derek Forrest, he's been playing outstanding football. You know, having Bobby McCain played a nickel now has put him in a situation where he's more around the ball. So I think the backhand has really tightened up. They're not giving up as many explosive plays. as they were in those early, early parts of the season.

And that's really been a big difference, playing better, playing a little bit, you know, mixing coverages a lot more, you know, showing, showing man, dropping back into zone, playing a little bit more cover two as opposed to, you know, mad zones or cover one is what they're playing a quarter's coverage as they were playing a lot of early in the season. So really just disguising their looks a lot more guys playing a lot. better. Young guys playing a lot better. And, you know, obviously the pass rush has definitely benefited from the coverage on the

back end being a lot better and vice versa. How is Jamin Davis done? I mean, evaluate his play this year. I thought Jamie has played. I think Jamie has played well. Yeah, he struggled in the first game against, I guess the Jacksonville Jaguars. I think that was just more of technique here. It's not really playing to his leverage. he's really corrected that. And this, yeah, even against the Detroit lines, I thought that's really nice thing.

He's correcting something, you know, he got called out by Ron in the media and Jack Deereo by needing to play better. And I think he has done that. And over the last, I would say, you know, five or six weeks since Cole has been out, and he's been asked to do a lot more. He's wearing the green dot now.

And you can see that. maturation, that growth and that confidence. He's made a couple plays against the Giants where they're running those swap boots and they're leaking those tight ends out to the flat. He's having to cover a lot of ground and you see the athleticism

that he has. And so he's continued to get, he has gotten better each and every week. What do you think, you know, I think it's, and I talked about this a lot when talking about Jamie and Davis last year and even early this year. I mean, it's, you know, it's a tough transition.

a lot on him last year as a rookie. It takes time for most players in this league. What do you think, where do you think he's headed? Do you think he's headed towards a player that resembles a guy that was worthy of taking in the first round? Yeah, absolutely. I think he's already there. You know, when you look at, you know, six-three, three, two-hundred-neill, 250 pounds, and he can run like he can run. You know, really good at Blix and the quarterback. He's, um, gotten a lot, done some really nice things on the coverage aspect of things. And when you,

when you see the, the growth that he's made this year over last year, and you mentioned there was a lot, a lot putting on it being put on his play. You know, you go from playing in a defense as an outside lineback, and I don't know how much they even hug them at all. Exactly.

Everything is coming from the sidelines in terms of, you know, the defensive call. They're giving you signals. and, you know, a card or whatever, tell you what the defense is as far as, now you have to come in the huddle, call a format, call a defense,

I'll get lined up, play the middle linebacker, and make the checks and adjustments. That's a lot for a young player to do. So, I mean, he's definitely ascending to being, he's aware, in my book, he's already, he's worthy of that. He was worthy of that first round draft pick. How much have they missed Cole Holck?

and will miss Cole Holcomb the rest of the way? You know, it's hard to say how much because, I mean, they're winning. So, you know, it's when you've been winning and the defense has been playing well, it's like, okay, how much can you say you miss it? But I will say this. You miss his playmaking ability. There are some things that you definitely, you know, there's some times we've allowed to run to get away from us a couple times.

sure, you know, whether it was against the Giants, where they had some runs against us. Falcons too. Falcons. Falcons. Yeah, Falcons. I was like, man, these days started to run together. The Falcons had had some success running the football. So you definitely, I feel like if Cole was in there, and nothing against anybody else,

not trying to knock anybody, but, you know, Cole was our lead tackler. You know, he's still one of the top tacklers. He's been, what, how many days? Four or five, six games. It feels like that now. You're right. So moving forward, it's hard to tell. I mean, we're going to play the Giants again. The Falk, I mean, the 49ers, they run the football better than as well as anybody in the National Football League.

So, you know, he'll be missed there. But definitely what she was out there. Yeah. I was curious. I mean, I think, you know, the combination of Allen and Payne has been as good as any combination of interior defensive tackles. this year in the league. And then you throw sweat in there and some of the other guys. You know, I said recently, and you weren't on the 2005 team, you were on the 2007 team,

which was coached by Greg Williams, that I think we're seeing the best defense of football that this franchise has played since that 2005 team. But the 2007 team, certainly at the end of the year, was playing really good defense as well. I mean, where do you kind of rank this defense right now in your era of being a part of and then, you know, following Washington football? You know, I remember watching those that 2004, 2005, you know, Washington defense because, you know, I played for Greg and Buffalo. So I, I mean, I watched them. I knew what schemes they were playing, and they had, Corners Griffin was playing.

outstanding football. Marcus Washington was playing great. You had Sean Taylor. You had a corner of Sean Springs. Playing outside of football. I think Smooth was here. And Carlos Rogers told, you know, all those guys are playing outstanding football.

In terms of the guys that we had our 07, my first three years, we're top 10 defense every year. The one thing we didn't do that they're doing better enough, they're taking the football away. We just didn't, we didn't give them many,

you didn't give them many yards. We just didn't take the football away, like they're taking the football away. So, and we didn't have the, the pass rushes like that. We just were a tough, gritty, grueless that you just, you just weren't going to move the ball against us.

We didn't have a sexy, sack, sack numbers and the takeaways. But, you know, I guess you would have to, when you look at the turnover, you probably have to compare them to the old five team. You know, I'll take your word for it and, you know, kind of co-sign that. Well, I mean, I like the 2007 team, too.

I mean, I remember some of those games. I mean, especially at the end of the year, the game in New York that you had to win on a Sunday night. The, I mean, hell, I mean, the playoff game was really good up until the end, you know, in Seattle. But, you know, the only game that you... Here's what I say about. What I'm saying about that old seven team is we didn't even, I mean, we only had Sean for, what, eight games? Exactly. They have to see the Sean Taylor.

That's the, that's the thing that we never, you know, got to see. And he was really ascending in terms of just from what I saw, you know, during my short time with him, you know, from the, you know, when I was brought in here, they were bringing me in here saying, hey, look, we need you to be a leader of this, be a leader of this defense. obviously he wanted me to be a playmaker too and I get here John was a tremendous leader in his home right and just his um his work at his his talent man that was just I'm watching him like some of the things he could do he was as physically gifted as any defensive player that I'd play with and I played with

him in Hall of Famers and it was like man this this guy's just um scratching the surface and you know so tragically we were only able to you know didn't see him reach his full potential. Yeah, you're reminding me, of course, that your first year here was that year, and it was, you know, it was just an awful, awful thing. And yeah, you're right. I mean, you played with him, but I've had so many of the guys on that team over the years talk about Sean. I think you've talked about him with me before, you know, but from Cooley to Santana to Clinton to the guys on defense like Springs and Smoot, it was it was a player ascending. That's the,

the tragic part, you know, beyond the human, you know, aspect of it. But from a football standpoint, he was having his best season by far. I mean, I remember the Packer game that year. He had two interceptions. He should have had four in that game against Green Bay. It was tough. It was rain and it was kind of, you know, he was making all the interceptions. just one of the

interceptions where he's on the I think the left hash and it was all the way on the other side of the sideline and intercept that path man it was just like right

who does that tell me what you think watching Allen and Payne play together I want I think I'm watching the two best defensive tackles in the national football league

and I know you said you said they were playing as well as anybody else I'm going to correct you They're playing better than any other duo international football league. I'll wait for you to name another. No, no, no, no. I think they're the best duo.

I think they're the best duo. I agree with you. Definitely. As a duo, yeah, I was about to say, because if I'm waiting for you, we'll be here all day. We'll be here next Sunday. No, no, no. We're taking a field again. I don't have an answer for that one.

No, as a duo, they are the best inside defensive tackle pairing in the league right now, no doubt. Yeah, and they're just so disruptive. Not only stopping the run, getting penetration, you see all the tactics for loss that they have, but also when it comes to rushing the passenger, and it's rare that you see guys with both that combination, you know, be able to stop the run and get out to the passer. You know, we knew what John was able to do last year

coming off the great year, and then this year he's taking that up even another level, but it's the play at the Ron Payne where he mentioned where he's just finishing those plays now, where he's getting to the quarterback. I have the eight and a half sacks and, you know, it's been a dominant run stopper and all those things. But those guys that are the two best defensive tackles in the national football. You know, it's funny that you mentioned tackles for loss because it was one of those things, for whatever reason, I don't think I ever really looked at that in previous seasons.

And earlier in the season, I went to look at the numbers, and Durrana, and John were high up on the list, and I just pulled up the updated list. Duran Payne is tied for second in the league in TFLs with 15. Max Crosby, by the way, after last night is number one. And John Allen is also at 15. Both of them are tied for second in the league. And then, by the way, Montez is tied for eighth. And it's one of these stats to London that I never really thought about.

But every player on this list is a great player. Nick Bosa, Zedarius Smith. Brian Burns, Micah Parsons, you know, Judon, Miles Garrett, DeNeal Hunter, Von Miller, Khalil Mack. I mean, Von Miller hasn't played in weeks, and he's still, like, in the top 20 in TFLs. It's like, you know, the great players in the game end up with a significant number of tackles for loss. And I would guess it's just because there's so many plays that they're in the backfield, right?

No, yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, it's obviously the sacks, but also, the disruption, the penetration to, you know, stopping the run, getting after the quarterback, getting after the, you know, earning a right to rush to pass, or you got to stop the run. And anytime you get penetration

in the opponent's backfield and you're able to create those TFLs and get an offense behind the chain where, you know, whether it's, you know, goes from first and 10 to second and, you know, 12 or second and 13 or, you know, things like, that where you get those negative yard to play,

it just puts you in a better position to be at a win third down. Yeah, exactly. It's just impressive to see. All right, let's flip it over to the offensive side because in going through the reasons for their turnaround, you mentioned defense, you mentioned the running game. How much credit do you give to Taylor Heineke? You have to get some, I mean, how much?

You got to get credit to Taylor because he's, he's not taking as many sacks. I know although he got sacked five times against the Giants. But prior to that, I think he had only been sacked. And I'm not in analyst mode. No, I think I... He had only been sacked like nine times. Exactly.

It was nine. And his previous, what, five stocks, starts, I want to say it was. And one of them was the stack that he took a knee on against the eagles when they ended up getting a penalty at the end of the game. Right. Good point. So he had two straight games without being sat going into that Giants game. You know, you got to get credit to Taylor because he's made plays.

He's been efficient in the passing game. You know, they're not asking him to sling it around on a weekend and week-and-week basis. Weekend and week-out bases 30-plus times a game because they're running it so well. And he also has – he knows when it's a total checkdown, he's beginning to whether it's a – his tight-ins and the checkdowns or it's running back, you know, out of the backfield. So that part of it definitely has helped. And Taylor, Taylor deserves a lot of credit the way the team has played lately. So you're not sounding to me, and I want you to be able to, you know, tell me how you really feel.

There's an endorsement there with respect to some of the plays that he's making. we all see what he did at the end of the game on that fourth and four, or some of those fourth downs against Indianapolis, or the third and nine throw to Terry against the Packers. I mean, we've gone through all of them. But at the same time, overall, like, do you think he is limited and that he's limiting the offense? No, no, no.

Well, maybe I didn't do it great enough job. You asked me about Taylor. I mentioned a running game as being the reason why. thought the offense was playing so well. And hell, he just had the ball off. Right. No, that's true. In terms of Taylor, he gives, he brings the energy to the offense to the team that, you know, they feed off.

They vibe off. I mean, I'm at every game. I see the, I see the energy and what he brings to the team. I see the playmaking. He'll, he'll make, he's made some plays where you're like, man, that's a big time throw. the fourth and four play that he made, you know, against the Giants. I'm like, where the hell is he throwing that football? I thought, I'm up in the booth.

Like, he's throwing it away, and he was throwing it. You know, he was throwing it to Curtis on the moving to his left. So, you know, he's made a lot of plays to be a part of this, this one and six out of the last eight games. So that's what I was saying. I was talking more about the running game. No, no, I appreciate. No, I appreciate you're adding to it. I just, you know, the conversation, obviously, with a lot of the fans and being, you know, in sports talk radio and taking calls, it's been, you know, there's definitely a split feel on Taylor.

That's the way I would describe it. Some people feel that, you know, obviously the team loves them and there's a leadership and there's a baller aspect to him and he's a fierce competitor and all of that is true. And at the same time, you know, it's hard. Yeah, go ahead. No, no, it's hard to kind of quantify or place to put a value. And there's some intangibles that he brings to the game that the stats aren't going to show. Like, Taylor's going to make some plays and make some throws that, you know, there'll be a throw or two. He's like, damn, what were you think?

What were you thinking? You know, and he'll throw one or two, you know, hopefully it's not two, but he'll throw an interception or two to the team. Like, hey, what are you thinking? And he'll make, you know, he made a bad decision. But the great thing about it, and he has that ability to move on to the next place. And then he'll, when it comes time and you need a play to be made, especially on a critical moment and a critical situation. And he makes that play that, quite frankly, we weren't getting from Carson.

I mean, you know, in the beginning of the season. And that's the difference. And that's the reason why he's there to start quarterback. Enjoy it. he's not going to be a 300 plus passer per game that's not what he's going to be nor do I think this team has built that type of way that I don't think that's the best way

they should operate continue to lean on the running game and he's going to make enough plays for us to continue for us to continue to win games what um how good of a job have Ron Rivera Jack Del Rio and Scott Turner done just give me your thoughts on each one of the three during this stretch. I think they all, I think they all, all three of them have done a great job.

You know, it starts with Ron. When you start one and four and, you know, we know, we all saw the stories being written about the team and, you know, people's jobs are on the line and all the uncertainty surrounding the team, but his leadership and his ability to get the guys focused and get them to where now we're, what, a half game? out of a playoff spot or whatever it is. Yeah, that's it. But for him to set that tone, set that stage, set that leadership,

it starts with him. And then from when you go to the coordinators, I mean, Ron and, I mean, Jack and his defense going from where they were at the beginning of the year to where they are now, man. I mean, they're light years ahead of where they were. And he's doing it with a lot of young guys, especially on the back. back in you, like I mentioned Forrest, I mentioned St. Juice. And also the personnel, the flexibility where some of the things, you're like, man, all right, we're going to play Bobby McCain at the nickel position now?

Okay, let's see how that goes. Yeah. And he's making it work, and those guys are making it work. And what I love about what they've been doing is they've been showing a lot of different looks and mixing up some coverages and disguises of things where, you know, forcing quarterback to kind of hold on to the football a little bit longer, a half a second or a second longer, and that's allowed the pass for us to get there. So I think Jack has done a great job.

And as far as Scott goes, his ability to stick with the run. And really, when you look at what they did against Philadelphia, that was impressive. That was one of the most beautiful office of game plans I've seen because for a coordinator, coordinators who want to throw the football, they want to, they want to splash plays. if they want to, you know, the electric highlight plays that are going to make sports in it. But to say no, we're going to run the football, we're going to stick to run, and we're going to, regardless of whether it's two yards, three yards, just continue to stick to this game plan.

That takes a lot of, you know, you have to kind of put your ego aside. But he understands, hey, this is not the air courier offense that my dad used to run, and I want to run. We're not suited for that type of offense. And I'm going to play to our strengths. Our strengths right now is running a football, letting our offensive lines set a physical tone. I think those guys have done a great job adjusting to their personnel in the makeup of this team. All right.

We got a buy week this week, and then a week from Sunday night, it's round two against the Giants. We just saw round one. What do you think the keys will be in game two? The key will be, we got to stay out of those third and long situations. As I looked at the game, you know, we were, I believe, three for 14 on third down. And probably eight or nine of those were third and eight plus, third and ten plus. Two, you can't operate like that. That's where I feel like we lost that game.

And the reason, especially against the Giants, you can't be in those third-in-law situations because of what they want to do defensively. They're going to show blitz. and really mess with your past protection. They'll overload one side, get you the slide protection. Then they're bringing a blitz off the other side and guys are running unfree. Yeah.

Running free to your quarterback. And then they're either playing man to man or dropping back to the zone coverage, forcing to hold the football. So we can't live in that world a third-in-law situation. That's not our best of football. In that game, London, and I talked about this on Monday, their average third down in that game was third and nearly nine. They had a third and 21.

They had three third and 13s. They had four third and tens, and they had a third and eight. And I think we all have... How many did they convert? Yeah, they were three for 14. And I think, you know, the one thing we... I bet they didn't convert any of those third eight pluses. No, they didn't.

I think they converted the... There was a third and four, the touchdown to Terry. And I think Robinson Jr. had two runs, one of two yards and one for one yard for the first downs. That was it. Yeah. And when they've been in this situation, like they were in the situation, I think against Minnesota as well, they're basically like five of 20. In the game that they lost during this stretch and in the game that they tied, they're five for 24 on third down with way too many third ones. Right.

Yeah, that's what I'm about to say. Because, you know, third down, you know, being five for 25 is one thing. But what really needs to tell the story is what were those dollars in distance? And you just mentioned how many were third and nine plus they average with third and nine. I guess it's giant. And I don't know what it was against the Vikings. But yeah, they can't. A lot of those were, you know, a couple penalties, questionable penalties, things like that.

You're right. And sacks. Four stars, stuff like that where you choose, it's hard. to operate when you get behind the chains. And we were talking about, this goes back to the tactics philosophy, as we were talking about Durrond and Jonathan, and how that impacts third downs. When you're operating like that, it's tough to convert third down when you have

that many yards to go. And that's kind of the overarching point about the offense. And Cooley pointed this out yesterday and earlier in the week with me. And we've actually talked about it all year. is that there's this small margin of error for this offense. And that is, you know, because you're pretty much hitting singles down the field, you can't afford, you know, a Cole Turner holding penalty. You can't afford, you know, a missed protection and a sack that drops you into second and 15.

They've got to stay ahead of the chains. I mean, it's a small margin for error. But when they get it right like they did against Philadelphia, they can beat anybody, you know, especially with that defense. So that leads me to this. You know the NFL. You're watching the other teams in the NFC. Where does this team fit in in the NFC right now?

Where do you see it after another four games? I see them, you know, right? I see them in the playoffs. I see them, you know, I don't know if they, I mean, obviously they're not going to be in top four spots, but I can see them, you know, as high as six. I don't think they'll be able to catch Dallas, which would be in the fifth spot. So I can see them in high six, but definitely in the end of the playoff.

And so, and I kind of feel the same way. Do you think that they're a legitimate threat to win a game or two when they get there? Absolutely. Absolutely. And here's the reason why the running game and defense travels anywhere. You go to any stadium in America. If you can run the ball and you play great defense, you can win in any. stadium. And that's what we do better than most. I think that's true. I mean, it's funny how,

you know, in this era of big-time quarterbacks and big-time quarterback play, even though, you know, we've had this season of defenses dominating and run first teams. And this year in the NFC playoffs, there's no Rogers, there's no, you know, Russell Wilson in rare form. There's no Brady, you know, I mean, I don't know, we could see Brady by the time we get there be Brady again. And it's funny. I just had Kevin Willard, the Maryland basketball coach on the radio show this morning. And I said to him, I said, you know, what do you spend most of your practice on, offense or defense? And he said, well, defense.

And he said, and I probably spend far too much time on defense. And he said, but what I've learned over the years is defense travels. And we're going to have off shooting nights on the road in particular. and if we play really good defense, we're still going to have a chance to win. And I think we've seen that in the NFL over the years, like a really, really good defense travels. And, I mean, some of those Ravens teams, you know, but I mean, that's going back a ways. But anyway, I get your point. No, no, it's just, again, I know this NFL and people want to see the big time throws

and a 50-yard touchdown passes and all that they, you know, throwing it all over the yard. But when it comes time to win football games, and you're talking about winning on the road, they don't talk about, hey, bring your passing game. They talk about bring your run game and your defense. Because if you can run the ball, it also eliminates the crowd noise. It takes you out of shotgun.

It takes the, you know, the four stars and giving the opponent the advantage in terms of the pass. protection or pass rush. So you're not, you're not bringing in, you're allowing the crowd to get in there. When you can play stout defense and when you're taking the football away, because defensively, you know, you can go anywhere. Like I like, I thrive on going to an opponent's stadium.

Like I love that challenge. Like, all right, let's go in here and take over their stadium. Like this, that's what you thrive on as a decent player to be at a point air and pose your wheel on a team and come out of there with a victory. I think there's something thrilling, actually. I don't know, this might just be me, but in football in particular, to watch in a big game, maybe a playoff game, the road team go in and shut another team down and win with defense.

There's something really, like I remember some of those Ravens teams that did it. And there's something that's thrilling because it's so, you know, especially when they're real physical. By the way, before I let you. go. I do want to mention so that everybody continues to keep an eye on this, but London is one of the 28 modern era Hall of Fame semi-finalists for the 2020-3 class. I forget, and you can remind me, I know you've been, I mean, you've been on the list before. Have you been a semifinalist before or not? No, this is my first time making it to the semifinals list.

Okay, that's awesome. Yeah, I think this is my, I don't know, this is my third or fourth year on the ballot. I can't, I can't recall. What year did you retire? 2014? My last season was 2013. Yeah, so five years, so 2018, so this would have been, yeah, this is like your fourth year on the ballot, something like that. Yeah.

We've already done this, so I don't want to do it again because the last time you were on, I remember we had a conversation. I told you, your stats actually rank up there with linebackers who are in the Hall of Fame already, and you even compare yours against Ray Lewis, and they're pretty comparable. But I wish you the best of luck. I mean, I'll be rooting it on, you know, this whole next couple of months before, you know, we get to Super Bowl week when, you know, the finalists are mentioned in the classes. Hopefully it works out. You are legitimately Hall of Fame worthy and consideration worthy.

So good luck with that. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. All right. Well, enjoy the rest of the season, calling games. And if there is a playoff game, I'll holler at you again, and we'll try to do this again maybe before a playoff game. All right.

Sounds good. London Fletcher, everybody, one of the NFL true Iron Men during his career. Four-time pro bowler, two-time all-pro. Had a hell of a career here and in Buffalo and, of course, won a Super Bowl with St. Louis. All right. Up next, smell test, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. The smell test brought to you by our good friends at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie.

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Smell test last week, four and two. That's nine winning weeks in the last 11. One of those two winning weeks was a 500 week. I understand that you didn't win money on that week. I know how it works. Trust me. But still, nine out of the last 11 weeks have been money. And last week was so close to being even better than it was. I mean, I don't know how the Jets didn't cover against Minnesota. They were down there twice at the end. You know, if they

stick it in, Braxton Barrios dropped a touchdown pass with a minute to go. I'm sure cousins would have driven them down the field and they would have kicked a game-winning field goal, but at least you would have covered. Did you like the way I slipped in? Cousins would have obviously driven them down the field. Well, he's only got six fourth quarter comebacks this year. Anyway, yeah, I should have gotten that one, but we can say that about a lot of wins and a lot of losses every week. Four and two's not bad. Let's try to go four and one this week. I've got five selections on the smell test. I really was close to giving out the Rams last night. I talked about it on radio. that I like the Rams. I bet the Rams personally.

And so it just, there was actually some conflicting information on where the sharp money was, even though the public money was on the Raiders. There was just some stuff that made me a little bit leery. And I'll tell you, some of these Thursday night games when you get late in the year, a little bit dicey. You just don't know who's going to be into it, who's going to be healthy, who's going to feel good. And look, for most of the game, the Rams did not look correct. but they got it done with Baker Mayfield at the end.

All right, let's start with the game that actually, to me, stuck out more than any game on the board this weekend. A late window Sunday afternoon game, Carolina at Seattle. Seattle's 7 and 5, the Panthers are 4 and 8. Seattle's fighting for not only a wild card berth, but they've got to feel kind of enthused about their opportunities now in the division that Brock Purdy is the starting quarterback in San Francisco. How the hell is Seattle only a four-point favorite over Carolina?

They are the biggest public bet team of the weekend. I'll take the Panthers plus four. By the way, the Panthers have played well recently. They're very good on defense. Their two wins in the last three games weren't against super impressive opponents, Denver and Atlanta. But two weeks ago, it was three to three. entering the fourth quarter against Baltimore.

So they're really good defensively. I'll take the Panthers plus the four. I'm going to give out Jacksonville again. I think this is the third straight week. Two weeks ago, winter last week, not even close. They got blown out against Detroit. They are getting three and a half at Tennessee. That just seems like a number that's too low for a team that is the division leader.

And Jacksonville has a quarterback that's banged up. Now, Trevor Lawrence is going to play. He got injured in that game against Detroit. One of the reasons the game got sideways because Jacksonville couldn't keep up with the scoring with him off the field. But they're getting three and a half. The public loves is absolutely in love with Tennessee. So I'll take the Jags plus the three and a half.

Interestingly, and I'm not going to make the case for this. But if Jacksonville were to pull off the outright upset Sunday and win at Tennessee, They would be five and eight, and Tennessee would be seven and six. They'd be two games back, and they finished the season with the Titans at home. They still have to play the Cowboys, though. So that, you know, my point is if they ran the table, they'd actually have a legitimate chance to win the division at nine and eight. And who knows, the Titans could potentially lose enough games to bring Jacksonville back into the mix and make that season finale mean something,

because the Titans, the rest of the way, at 7 and 5 right now, if they were to lose, they'd be 7 and 6. They got the Chargers, the Cowboys. They do have the Texans in there before that season ending game in Jacksonville. But I like Jacksonville this week, plus the three and a half. Do you know that Cleveland hasn't lost to Cincinnati since 2019? They've won five in a row against the Bengals. They are getting six at Cincinnati with Cincinnati on a four-game winning streak

and having beaten Kansas City in their last game. Tennessee the week before that and Pittsburgh the week before that. So they are rolling right now the Bengals are, and a lot of people now like the Bengals to win the AFC championship, especially if they're able to get the home field advantage and host Buffalo or Kansas City in Cincinnati. The line's less than seven. The public's pounding Cincinnati.

I'll take Cleveland and Deshawn Watson plus the six on the road at Cincinnati. And then the Chargers are getting three and a half in the Sunday nighter against Miami. I'll take the Chargers plus three and a half. I don't know if I pointed this out earlier this week. I know I did it on radio. So the chargers right now are allowing 5.43 yards, 5.43 yards per rushing attempt. If this holds up, it'll be the most yards allowed per rushing attempt in a season since Washington in 1959. Okay, 63 years that would be.

Yeah, their rush defense is awful right now. And it's a problem for them because we know what they are from a, you know, Justin Herbert, when they're healthy with Echler, with Williams, with Allen. If they were all healthy, we know what they can be, certainly on offense. But defensively, they are terrible, giving up 5.43 yards per rush. and yet they're only getting three and a half against the high octane dolphins. I'll take the Chargers at home on Sunday night. Man, it seems like the Chargers have played a lot of big-time TV games recently.

And they have a couple left. Right now they're scheduled to play on Monday night football against the Colts. Well, that won't get flexed. And then a Sunday night game against the Rams. Well, that most assuredly will be flexed. The January 1 Sunday night game in holding pattern right now is Chargers versus Rams. That's not the last week of the season. The following week is the last week of the season.

You're going to end up with a different Sunday night game there, you know, for sure. Washington plays Cleveland, so that's probably not a candidate for Sunday night football. I'm looking through the games. Man, not a great card that day. Dallas plays Tennessee on Thursday night football. Buffalo plays Cincinnati on Monday night football January 2nd. Wow, that could be for home field advantage throughout the AFC playoffs. I did not know that until I just saw it.

Buffalo at Cincinnati on January 2nd. I mean, how about Cincinnati recently, right? Titans Chiefs, they get the Browns this weekend. Brady and the Buck. next weekend at New England, the bills at home on Monday night football, and they close with the Ravens. It's a hell of a schedule. But on January 1, New Year's Day, the flex game for the Chargers Rams might be, who, slim pickings. Really slim pickings. I guess the Jets at Seattle, because both teams will probably be fighting.

for playoff birth, that is not a great Sunday card. You know, Dallas, Tennessee, Thursday night, good game, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Monday night good game. But the Sunday matchups are not great at all. So anyway, what was scheduled for that day is the key double header game on CBS was Minnesota Green Bay. But you could see that may be flexed at this point because the Packers, you know, are not going to be in the hunt for anything at that point.

All right, there is one more game on the smell test as I get completely sidetracked from the goal here, which is to give you my picks. Monday night, the Chargers, Sunday night plus three and a half. Monday night football, I'll take Kyler Murray and the Cardinals plus one and a half against the Patriots. The Patriots have struggled against running quarterbacks this year. Early in the year, they struggled with Lamar Jackson losing 37 to 26. There was that Monday night blowout loss against Justin Fields and Chicago when Fields rushed for like 82 yards and a touchdown. And that was like one of the first big games for Fields when he got on a roll in terms of rushing yards.

Yeah, the Patriots have struggled against running quarterbacks, Josh Allen. And now you get Kyler Murray. I'll take Kyler Murray plus the one and a half with the Cardinals on Monday night. So the smell test. Panthers plus four, Jags plus three and a half, Browns plus six, chargers plus three and a half on Sunday, and the Cardinals plus one and a half on Monday night. Finishing up the show, I kind of went through this the other day,

but the big games for Washington this weekend are, you know, Vikings Lions, you really want the Lions to kind of lose that eighth game and kind of feel like they don't have the shot anymore. or if they beat the Vikings, you know, the lines will be favored or close to favored in the rest of their games. And, you know, they're going to start thinking 10 and 7 in a playoff berth. And by the way, if you're a Detroit fan and they beat the Vikings Sunday, you'll be thinking if we get to the playoffs, we got a chance to go to our first Super Bowl ever because they would be one of the most explosive offensive teams in the postseason. That's crazy to say with Jared Gough.

But Amman Rae St. Brown has become a top 10. receiver in the game. Eagles Giants, obviously, big 1 o'clock on Sunday. That may be one of those days where I don't watch Red Zone. I just watch one game because I want to see the Eagles and Giants start to finish, especially with the Giants coming to FedEx the following week. Bucks 49ers, big late window 425 game on Fox. That's huge for the NFC playoff race. We're rooting for the Bucks there because you'd like to see the 49ers and the Seahawks slide back, and then, you know, the second place team end up with, you know, like a 9-and-8 record. Something like that. Panther Seahawks at the same time, 425 on Fox as well. So you're rooting for the Panthers,

you're rooting for the Buccaneers against the Niners, the Eagles against the Giants and the Vikings against the lions. The Cowboys are 17 and a half-point favorites over Houston. I think that's the biggest favorite of the year. Obviously, you're rooting for the Texans, but I don't see that happening. Big college basketball game Sunday for the Terps. Kevin Willard was on my radio show this morning. You can hear that by downloading the Odyssey app or just going to the Team 980.com. He was great. We talked about the season so far previewed the Tennessee game. Rick Barnes, coaches Tennessee, long time, great coach in so many different spots. You know, A long time ago he was at George Mason.

A long, long time ago he was an assistant for Gary Williams at Ohio State. But, you know, the last three stops for Rick Barnes where he's won and he's one big have been three football-first schools, Clemson, Texas, and now Tennessee. And he's done well in all of those places. And it's just funny because in thinking about Rick Barnes, because I think he's such a great coach and a great defensive coach. But in those three spots, you know, there's been. very little pressure on him. And you wonder whether or not a coach really wants to be at a place where it matters the most or be at a place like Clemson, Texas, Tennessee that can pay really well for its basketball coach

and yet at the same time not put a lot of pressure from a fan-based perspective on that football coach. Because let's face it, at Clemson, Texas, and Tennessee, you know, it's football, spring football, recruiting season for football, before you get to basketball in terms of the importance rankings. But Maryland at the Barclay Center in Brooklyn, Sunday 430 against number 7, Tennessee. Big game for Willard. He'll get a team that is super athletic for sure. They offensive rebound really well.

They've already beaten Kansas this year. already beaten Tennessee this year. Really, really good basketball team in Tennessee, and the Terps will have their hands full for sure. But that's kind of what I'll be doing Sunday afternoon during that NFL late season window. I will certainly have one of the screens on Maryland, Tennessee. As I mentioned at the beginning of the show,

I will be back tomorrow with Howard Gutman and get his thoughts. all this Snyder stuff. So look for that podcast to be out over the weekend. Other than that, have a great weekend. Enjoy the football. Enjoy any holiday parties or anything you got going on. And we will reconvene with a full show on Monday.