The Kevin Sheehan Show - Snyder WASN'T Fined $10M

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on the news that the Washington Football Team communicated to several media people on Friday that Dan Snyder himself was not the recipient of the NFL's $10 Million fine. They also talked Nats, Aaron Wiggins, the NBA Finals and Marv Albert.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. He is Kevin. Tommy's here. I'm here. We took the day off yesterday.

I hope everybody had a great 4th of July weekend. Tommy, what did you do over the weekend? Do you light off fireworks in your development there? Are you a fireworks, guy? In terms of what? Watching them or lighting them off? lighting them off. No, no, I am not.

Now, let me just say that there were many years when the kids were young that I would go out and buy like a bag full of, you know, some of those cone things and, you know, in our backyard, I'd put them up on this ledge, you know, every bit of 30 feet minimum away from everybody. We had a deck they could sit on and watch them and I'd light off, you know, 10 of those when they were little, and then hand out the sparklers. that was it. No, I'm not a big firework guy.

Yeah, neither am I. We used to do a little bit when the kids were young, too. But I don't set them off. But when I was growing up in Brooklyn, on July to 4th, there'd be about half a dozen families that would get together out on Washington Avenue and sit on like the stoops and shoot all fireworks. And my parents were included in that group. and I know this is my favorite memory of July 4th is the cops came at one point

and told my parents and their friends to stop shooting off fireworks. Meanwhile, a block away, there were kids up on the roof of an apartment building throwing cherry bombs on M80 that people walking by. So my mom started arguing with the cops and it got to the point where they threatened to drag her down

to the police. station and arrest her if she didn't shut up. That's my favorite July 4th of everything. Well, don't you have, isn't it you who has a story of somebody and a cherry bomb or something going off in their hand or something like that? No, I had a firecracket could go off in my hand once. I was about to throw it into the local delicatessen. That's what he was.

Yes, you were going to throw it into a retail deli. And it went off in your hand. Yeah. It served you right. And what happened? Well, it was a small firecracker. It just hurt. Yeah.

You know, there's no damage or anything like that. So I will. I learned my lesson. I will tell you that my grandfather, God rest his soul, Poppy. He passed away when I was young. I was 12, something like that. But I do remember Fourth of July's as a kid, where he would come over with some of my cousins and aunts and uncles,

and he was a big fireworks guy and a firecracker guy. And he had firecrackers always in his hand. He'd be lighting off a whole packet of time and chucking them and cherry bombs and the whole thing. And it was always thrilling. So I do remember that. But did you read this story of the Columbus Blue Jackets goalie who died over the weekend? in a fireworks accident. I read the headline. I didn't really want to know it anymore. So, um, the, uh, I mean, because it's such, I mean, in the world of senselessness,

it's, it's, it always ranks as the all-time senseless kind of accident. Well, JPP, Jason Pierre-Paul lost a digit with fireworks, right? Um, and then you had, um, I don't know how to pronounce the Columbus Blue Jackets, he was a backup goalie. Matisse, Kiv Lennox, I think. I don't know. Um, he died of chest trauma from an errant fireworks mortar blast. And by the way, the initial story was that he died from a fall, but that was corrected by the police, who didn't want somehow a senseless sort of death

with things that people should be aware of are dangerous. They wanted it reported accurately, and they said it was a mortar-style firework that's tilted slightly and started to fire towards people. And he apparently was in a hot tub and tried to get clear of it, but it hit him and he died. Yeah, it's actually awful. So I don't know that, you know, he ended up with heart, lung damage and then passed away.

Oh, my God. I mean, it's an awful story. terrible story but there was also a video making the rounds from Ocean City where fireworks went off accidentally shooting in every which direction I don't know if anybody was hurt but this was on the beach on Saturday or Sunday

did you see this? I heard about it you know I think that you know that happened to my wife in Cape May many years ago people were running for cover fireworks which all just got controlled fireworks by the city you know just went out of control yeah um well i do love watching fireworks you know we i do too who doesn't i think i think i've told you this before but when you know um when the kids were younger and everybody was home by the way

fourth of july on sunday night nobody was home um we didn't do anything for fourth of july for 4th of July. I didn't even watch it. You know, from my house, I live close enough to the city. You can hear it. You know, you can hear the pounding of the fireworks. And so when I started to hear that pounding, I did turn on the TV real quickly. And it looked beautiful, as it always does with the monument and all the, you know, the things in the background. But we had this, I had figured out this sort of system, if you will, on 4th of July, which, you know, we. where, you know, the fireworks start at 915. I think it's 915 or 920.

You know, whenever it is legitimately dark. And we only live like six minutes from Georgetown and Key Bridge in particular, which, you know, takes you over from Georgetown into Rosalind. I think a lot of you know where Key Bridge is. And so if you timed it out perfectly, which I always was able to do, if you went over that bridge and then I would turn around in Rosalind, and come back the other way over the bridge, at 915, literally once the fireworks started, everybody parked their car, stopped their car on that bridge and watched.

And Tommy, it was a phenomenal view because you've got the Kennedy Center in the immediate foreground, the monument, everything in the background as the fireworks. It's just a perfect spot to watch the fireworks. But the best part about it was once the... they were over, you're off that bridge and home in six minutes rather than dealing with all the traffic. So I think there was like a five or six year period where, you know, the boys and Kara and I, we would jump into the car at like 90, you know, literally like 905. And we would cross that bridge, turn around and right as they started going off. We had like, we park it and you'd stand right on the bridge, you know, sit on your car as everybody did.

And the cops didn't care at that point. Once they started, they let you just sort of park, you know, on the bridge and watch them. I don't know if they let you do that anymore. But it was a perfect spot. And then once they were over, boom, you're off the bridge and home. We did not do that. I had zero interest in doing that. But I hope it was a nice fourth for everybody.

I hope it was a nice fourth. Yeah, so do I. I mean, I spent it with in-laws up in Westchester. Not far from Easttown. Right, not far from East Town out there in West, so you're in Westchester County. Delco. Yeah, Delco Country. Yep. Old Wilmington country, right around there. But in Pennsylvania. Okay, so I wanted to start with this. I think you and I talked over the weekend. I'm not sure I shared all of this with you when we talked. When did we talk? Last night, the night before when I was.

it was. It was the night before. The night before. So I wanted to share with everybody a conversation that I had with someone who shall remain anonymous per his request. But this is somebody who I've had a lot of conversations with over the years and have learned a lot of different things about, you know, the team and I've used some of it at some various points in time. And at other times I've just used it as what they call background information. Tommy, you want to be a lot of different things. Tommy, and explain to everybody what background information is? Well, background information is you can use it, but you don't attach, like it's not even an unnamed source kind of thing.

Right. You know, it's like when you're writing a story that says, sources said, that's not to be identified. Background is when you pretty much just declare it as knowledge, but you don't attribute it to anyone, even unnamed sources. forth. So this is more of a background thing, but I'm going to share some of the conversation and some of the things I learned. There are people in the league primarily, not necessarily with the team, that really think that the league did themselves, but more importantly, Dan and the Washington

football team, a disservice by not creating at least the perception of a person. real punishment last week. Dan should have asked for and the league should have given him a suspension, a legitimate suspension, a six-month suspension on top of the fine, which was, by the way, the largest ever, ever assessed to an NFL team. And we'll get to why I just said team instead of Dan Snyder here in a moment, because Tommy's familiar with some of the things that happened late last week. But that, you know, they just did him a disservice, that a six-month suspension for an owner, which, by the way, however you want to view it, you know, what does that actually mean

for an owner? Well, it means he's got to stay away from the operation. This was, as I said on Friday, this was not a suspension. He was not suspended. If he had been suspended, it would have said he was suspended. And a six-month suspension would have added at least a level. level of seriousness to the punishment that the $10 million fine by itself did not do. And then there are people in the league that feel they should have allowed Beth Wilkinson

to reveal at the very least some sort of summary of her findings. That the league slap on the wrist and the lack of transparency on a report that took almost a year was a mistake for the league and an even bigger one for Dan. Now, in having this lengthy conversation, it was mentioned to me that the irony is that, per usual, Dan and the organization is just way too self-unaware to even know that they were done at this surface. because as you know, and I'll let you jump in here in a moment, he had lawyers and PR people reaching out on Friday

to various reporters to set the record straight on those that had written that he was suspended or even quasi-suspended, and those that wrote that he himself was fined to say he was not suspended and he was not fined the team was actually fined the $10 million. I got one of those phone calls.

Well, not a phone call and email from an agency in New York that pointed out that very, very politely, in a polite email, very professional politely, that it was the team that was fined the $10 million. When I had written in my initial column, which was posted online, I had a polite email, I had a inferred that it was a Dan Snyder fine. They were able to change that easily, despite it had not been published in a regular paper yet. I know this is still a miracle to you, but the Times is published a regular paper five days a week. Okay. You know?

Yeah. But they were able to fix it online very easily. And my first thing response was, first of all, who are you? when they sent me the email. You know, I mean, how do I know you have any involvement with anything to do with this? So he explained that, you know, they were representing the team on non-football matters when it came to public relations. And that made sense to me.

So I responded back that it will be changed, and he gave me a nice thank you, and it was changed. but I figured, I'm surprised. So, I mean, we started out with the initial reports about the Wilkinson oral report that she gave to Roger Redell. Or Lisa Frail, right. Yes, that, you know, we were under the impression that he had been fined, and we were under the impression that he had been suspended. Well, I was not under the impression that he had been suspended. But most people were.

Yes, that's true. Most people were. And by the end of the weekend, we learned that neither happened. And I suggested, you know, in a couple of days, he may wind up with a Walter Payton Award for a man in a year. He could. If this keeps going. Right. We're headed in that direction.

Yes. Who was it that's, can you name that? Can you name the organization that sent you this email or not? Yeah, yeah, I can do that. I mean, you know. Was it Rock Nation? No, it wasn't Rock Nation. Okay.

I will tell you it was Mark Sosa, S-A-U-S-U-S-A-U-S-A-S-U-A-S-E-Rown executive with MWW. Yeah, MWWW is a – by the way, they have a big D.C. office, too. They and Rock Nation have been handling a lot of the people. are. Okay. And he was, again, a very polite, very professional exchange back and forth. And I'm all for whatever allusions or however they're trying to paint this, I'm all for getting the official, you know, details right. So if he was not fine, I was all for changing it.

So I had really no problem with any of it, but I just found it kind of humorous the way this thing had kind of picked up steam over the weekend. And how we had to wait, I mean, part of the problem with the Wilkinson report is that it took so long, which gave people the notion that something really was going to come out of this thing. Not necessarily that he was going to get kicked out of the league. But that, I mean, who spends a year on something like this? to sit down and give a briefing. You know, so people expected by the length of the investigation,

by the fact that, you know, Goodell said in February, it was close to being done, and here we were in July, and it still hadn't been, you know, revealed yet, that something was going to be revealed. There was going to be some meat on the bone. And I think that really disappointed a lot of people. They got their hopes up based on, the impression that the time involved would indicate there's some kind of magnitude to go with it.

Well, I didn't think there was going to be any meat on the bone once the league waived the debt limit and then loaned them the money to buy out his minority investors. I think that that was the moment, I think we both said it, there's not going to be, you know, a bombshell here. But that doesn't mean that after a year's worth of an investigation, that the expectation of something from Beth Wilkinson herself, It wasn't reasonable, but we got nothing from her. So there are a couple of things here. Do you agree with the person that I had a conversation with that the league did Dan a huge disservice by not suspending him?

I don't know. I don't think, you know what? I think they think it doesn't matter. I mean, again, I'm under the impression now that they just don't think matters that much. I mean, how much, like, this goes back to the whole argument of Snyder being defamed. I mean, you know, with the so-called smear campaign by Dwight Schar. And the legitimate defense, I would say, how can you possibly defame a guy who, with this kind of reputation? Right. That's true. Yeah. So what more damage could they do than what's

done. The people who believe what they believe are going to believe it. And the NFL and the Washington football team would just as soon move on with all the great changes they've made. And they made some impressive changes along the way. All right. So let me... No, I don't think, I don't think it's that damaging. So a couple things. I don't think they did them a disservice. And I just think it's insignificant and they don't particularly care. Okay. I don't know that I'm going to agree with you on they didn't do a disservice, but I'm not like adamant that somehow this will manifest itself in a hideous way because they didn't. Three things. One, Dwight Schar, I've heard essentially is no longer

allowed to have any association with the NFL and that the team actually wanted that story to come out last week right after the Tanya Snyder stuff. Dwight Schar obviously was involved, I shouldn't say obviously, has certainly been accused of being involved in that inaccurate internet speculation campaign against Snyder prior to the post piece almost a year ago to the day that included claims of Jeffrey Epstein ties and sex trafficking and drug trafficking and the whole thing. Number two, that I think two things. one, I think, first of all, not having any sort of teeth to the punishment, I'm not going to say

it incents anymore, but it keeps the post in others that are like dogs with a bone on this $1.6 million settlement story on what happened on that plane. They're going after it, big time. I've heard that. It's not just them. It's others, maybe even the New York Times. But they want to find out, even though there's confidentiality included in that settlement. They want to find out what happened on that plane. Can I just, can I just interrupt for a minute? You know who's probably not going after it big time? The Wall Street Journal. Oh, not the journal. Yeah, the journal isn't. I bet they're not going after a big time. But I think. I bet they think the $10 million fine on the team was probably too harsh. I think the outrage last week from a lot of people on how

how the league handled this. And then maybe even some outrage that Dan was sending their PR firm after people to get it straight. Like, hey, he already won, but he needs to win more. You need to understand he wasn't fine. The team was. He's not suspended. He can go back to work whenever he wants. Okay.

You know, take the victory, you know, and act like you've been there. But it's never their style. But the combination of things that happened, you know, know, is for many people a slap in the face of the 40 plus women, many of whom didn't care about anonymity, many of whom who were already not anonymous, many of whom probably would have been okay with not identifying information in a public, you know, reveal of what Beth Wilkinson learned. But I think that there are people that are going after whatever happened on that plane. I have no idea. I've heard a lot of stories, but I have no.

no idea what happened on that plane, but I do know this, that Wilkinson and others want to find out what the hell happened on that plane, because there are people that believe that if there is some sort of smoking gun on him, that it may have happened on that plane on that ride back from the country music awards in Vegas in 2009, whatever year that was. But lastly, Tommy, I wanted to just say this. The going after reporters for not getting this right, is another indication of just how numb they are. You know, it's the typical, they didn't get this right. I was totally vindicated.

I didn't get suspended. I didn't get fined. The team got a $10 million slap on the wrist because there was nothing there. You know, and it's another indication just how off they continue to be. with their PR instincts. You know, he and this organization continue to be their own worst enemy. They never learn. You know, and everybody who's around them knows that they never learn.

And they say they never will. You know, it was the fact that Tanya was named co-CEO was another, like just so obvious, transparent move. How incredibly out of touch, do you have to be, whether it's him or his PR people, to think that this clearly, this clear layup puff piece where, you know, he claims that he wasn't involved enough and needs to be involved more is going to be well received. How out of touch do you have to be from a public relations standpoint?

I mean, it depends on who their audience was for that Wall Street Journal piece. if it was NFL owners, if it was the league office, just to show them, look, we've got this under control. I don't know what the purpose of it was, but it seems a little bit simple, like you said, to think that the average Washington football consumer is going to read that and not choke on it. In these discussions, why doesn't, you like, does somebody, say, can I just weigh in for a moment? If you actually have a quote in there that you weren't involved enough, no one's going to believe that. And then to furthermore add insult to injury to suggest that you need to be involved more is not also going to be well received. My suggestion

is we leave both of those things out of it. It's not the reporter's job to save the owner from himself, although on this case, the guy only knows what the reporter's job was. The quotes that were provided are the responsibility of the PR team that surrounds him. Now, I've been told he doesn't much listen to the advice he's given, which is why they've seemingly been forever, you know, so off-kilter instinctually when it comes to public relations. You know, I had somebody, and I shared this with you a couple of years ago, and with those of you that are listening, on the podcast, I remember specifically mentioning this, because I had somebody tell me a few years ago that back in 2018 or 2019, that the team had conducted its own internal poll, which included some

approval poll questions, two of the questions which had to do with Snyder and with Bruce Allen, and they went, you know, something like this, do you approve of the job that Dan Snyder is doing his owner? Do you approve of the job that Bruce Allen's doing his team present? and they threw those questions in because they thought the results would be decent and that they could go out and respond to media complaints about the team with the results of the poll. But the results weren't very good. Like the approval rating for Dan was like 5% roughly and for Bruce almost the same. So obviously that poll got completely shut down in terms of the dissemination of the results.

They couldn't use the results. but I remember being told at the time that they were like surprised internally with the results on Dan and Bruce. And I'm just like, seriously? I mean, I thought about clueless. But, you know, again, but Tommy, here's the thing. You know, for most people, that seems incredible that they haven't ever had a grasp on what the fan base, what the customers think of him and the team. You know, even the poll results were.

probably in their own mind in that moment chalked up to some sort of polling error, you know? Oh, well, that's an error. Well, you can't, okay, plus or minus 10% still puts you at a bad number. But this is something that we've been talking about for years, that he's never had a grasp on reality. You know, even in a suite looking out to see his stadium 20% full, 80% empty, sometimes taken over by opposing fans, you know, having the paltry television, ratings, for some reason, he's always been able to rationalize it as being somebody else's fault, you know, and that the fans of the team don't blame him. It's always been that they've blamed somebody else. And I'll tell you what probably emboldened him a little bit during that

Happy Thanksgiving Day introductory of Ron Rivera was the hashtag fire Bruce, you know, sentiment and campaign because that really, it was, you know, created this incredible life of its own. And it was all about Bruce. So he thought it was all about Bruce. I got, go ahead. No, go ahead. There's something I don't quite understand, though, about this not being a suspension. How do you explain why Snyder has gone, why they've got.

got out of their way to say in the announcement that Snyder's going to step away for a few months. Why have they done that? They didn't say, I don't think that's the way it was. I know that. I know whatever words they use. Hold on. The message was, time is here for the day by day. Yeah.

And Dan's going to, hands off for a while. I don't know, maybe. Direct conflict of the Wall Street Journal story. where he said he needs to be more involved. Right, you pointed that on Friday. Yes, which is a good catch that, you know, he pointed out that he needed to be more involved, although sort of it was more like we need to be more involved,

like he and his wife. But the statement from him was, I agree with the commissioner's decisions in this matter and am committed to implementing his investigations' important recommendations. His investigations, important recommendations. Tanya will assume the responsibilities of CEO and will oversee, all day-to-day team operations and represent the club on all league activities, I will concentrate my time during the next several months on developing a new stadium plan

and other matters. There's nothing about stepping aside there, Tommy. Again, we compared it to the Michael Scott, Jim Halpert, situation where they convinced, what's her face, that Jim would handle the day-to-day and Mike. Michael was going to handle big picture. Big picture is not stepping away. A lot of people took that and ran with it as some sort of suspension, but they snapped right back, obviously, with the letters sent to people like you and others saying he was not suspended. I think I would disagree with you.

I think big picture is stepping away. I don't think he is going to, but I think that's the message they wanted to get out, and I don't know why they would want to do that. I just, well, First of all, I don't think he wants to be involved in the league activities in these meetings anymore. I don't think he's comfortable in those. And sending her, you know, just like he sent Bruce for all that time to sort of replace him, makes him comfortable. The answer would be somebody convinced him to at least say that this might, you know, be received in a way that's favorable. But I don't think so. I think that that's actually what he's going to do.

Like the new stadium plans a big deal, and other matters like the team name are a big deal, and he's going to focus on those big issues. But, I mean, what is he, a moron? You can't do one and not the other? I mean, trust me, there's nobody banging on his door every day telling him he wants to build a stadium for him. Okay, I mean, this is not a huge workload.

Why do you think they want? were so insistent on making sure that you and everybody else knew that he was not suspended and he can come back whenever he wants, despite the Mark Masky suggestion that he can't. This is why I don't get the whole idea of the separation of powers. Why do you think the league, if they did suspend him, why wouldn't the league say it? I didn't say they suspended them. I don't understand why they went out of their way to dictate us to, to, to, to, to, to, explain a separation of power.

Well, it's only, it's the couple of months was actually the buzz phrase of that statement because people think, oh, he got suspended for a couple of months, that's why. I think they put that in, I think they put the separation of powers

in there to, I don't know why they did it, but I don't believe it. I don't believe it for one bit. I don't believe it either. So what are we doing? do it? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. That's what I mean. Do we both agree that he was not suspended that he can go back and do whatever he wants or whenever he wants? I'm not sure that's

the case. That's what we think. I'm not sure. I don't, my first instinct was this isn't a suspension because they would have benefited from saying it was a suspension. Number one. Number two is the fact that they pushed back on anybody that called it a suspension, you know, to me means that it definitely wasn't. Well, I mean, I don't know. The Washington football team pushed back. I didn't get anything from the NFL. Yeah, the NFL has not weighed in on this because what is there for them to weigh in on?

Right. They made their statement. They didn't speak of a suspension. No, they didn't. it was a $10 million fine. Having considered Wilkinson's findings... There's no logical explanation for the separation of the day-to-day versus big picture between his wife and himself. Having considered Wilkinson's findings...

So there had to be something more to it. They don't even mention in the league statement. We learn that from the team statement. And by the way, that... You know, the team's statement was the one that brought up the whole possibility or just even pushed the narrative that he may have been suspended. By the way, I did ask whether or not this would be tax deductible, especially since it's a team fine and not an individual fine.

And I was told that it very well, you know, could be a tax deductible event for them, which really is something else. Let me just finish and then you follow up with anything that you want to follow up with. Look, whenever you begin to get excited and you start fantasizing about how this time things are going to be different, just remember Tommy's Surgeon General's warning. Dan still owns the team. Proceed with caution. because more likely than not, they won't be that different.

You know, we might have a good year this year, we might have a decent one the following year, and maybe they can even get a playoff win for the first time in 16 years. But for now, he owns the team and the fact that he turned his PR people and lawyers loose last week to make sure that everybody not only knew that he won, but in many ways, and this is the part they never understand, that people perceive that he was also telling you, I won and those 40 plus women didn't win. You know, whether you believe that or not,

that's the perception they're out creating. How stupid is that? It's just as clear as it's always been. He's not changing. And it would be nice to think that, you know, the combination of some smart, capable people and some decent people like Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew and Marty Herney and some others in the organization will be able to turn things around. As long as he's still there,

we have to understand that others have tried that have been decent, smart, capable people and have failed. You know, it still comes down to, you know, this just complete self-unawareness, detachment from reality. Over-promising, under-delivering for 21 years going on 22 now. The Charlie Brown-Lusie analogy, like, here it is. Oh, we pulled it away from you again. This is always going to be in play as long as he owns the team. It doesn't mean we can't compartmentalize as I talked about last we can have a conversation about whether or not they're going to be good enough defensively and they've added enough offensive weapons to win 10 or 11 games this year and be in the postseason. I think they're well-coached for the first time and a long time to make a run here.

But it's not going to be a long-sustained run more likely than not. But anyway, let's talk some football. I just couldn't believe, Tommy, that they were doing this at the end of last week. It's like, dude, you won. Just let it lie right there. Let people think you were suspended. Let people think you were fined. That's better for you in the long run.

You should have asked, if you had been aware enough, you should have asked the commissioner to give you a suspension. You should have asked him to give you a punishment that had a little bit more bite to it. That would have benefited you more. But no, they don't, they never. see it that way, ever. They don't understand. They just keep missing the big picture,

which is why you've got to always take that into consideration every time you start to fantasize about the upcoming seasons. All right. Did you want to talk about the Nats and Scherz and Otani and some baseball? Because I want to talk about Aaron Wiggins in the NBA finals. So we'll get to all of that right after what? Okay.

No, go ahead. That sounds like a good idea. We'll do it right after this word from a few of our sponsors. Big win for the Nats last night, Tommy. Getting a Josh Bell Homer in the seventh to take a lead in a game that had been tied up 5-5 after the Nats had a 5-0 lead. But really, you know, they needed that one last night after a rough weekend against the Dodgers, getting swept by the Dodgers, losing Kyle Schwer for potentially weeks, if not months. What a devastating blow to this team.

What a run he was on, and to lose him was horrible. They didn't have Tray Turner in the lineup over the weekend. They got him back last night, and he hit a home run, and they got a huge win over the Padres last night, a win they really needed. And how about Josh Bell? 206, beginning of June. He's been hitting 313 since he was 3 for 5 last night,

huge for him and the team. Yeah, I mean, you know, both him and Schwerber were two bats that had potential to be very explosive, but both were coming off down seasons for them for their respective teams, the Cubs and the Pirates. But the Nats, I mean, they're just fighting to survive now. I mean, it's going to be difficult unless Victor Robles and Soto really heat up to pick up the slack that Schwerver gave to that lineup. And then the pitching, Strasbourg, we have no idea when we're going to see Stephen Strasbourg.

John Lester, I mean, I don't know if he's going to finish a season for them. I don't think they can count on him right now. He's averaging like 20 pitches an inning. That's a definition. That's not even a five-inning pitcher for him, maybe. More than that last night. 83 pitches and three innings, yeah. Yeah. So they got a lot of problems.

And there's nothing on the horizon short of some kind of remarkable trade that Mike Rizzo might manage to pull off. We're in the trading month, the deadline I think, still remains July 31st, to maybe inject some help into them because they're going to need some help. The Schwerber news was just terrible. Yeah. I mean, you know, because this is being considered as a serious injury, you know, one that could keep him out, you know, a couple of months potentially. And the run that he was on was just, you know, unbelievable. Not an Otani run. We'll get to him in a moment.

But that's, you know, there were a lot of reasons for winning 14 out of 17 games, but he was number one on the list. So you're right. They've got to get Soto to start stepping up in a big way. Trey Turner has been when he's been out there. Bells turned it around a little bit. And Victor Robles, you know, who was two-for-four last night, but really, you know, he's hitting 218 for crying out loud. Yeah.

He really has been a major disappointment for them, considering so many trades that they turned away from teams that wanted Victor Robles when he was a hot prospect. Yeah. So you had to be surprised that Max Scherzer didn't make the All-Star team, right? Yeah, I am. I am surprised. I don't know who the – I have to look over the rest of the starting rotation to see who they pick. But Scher is the kind of guy that people pay to see when they come to the stadium, the very definition of the guy who should be in an All-Star game. But, I mean, it's small potatoes right now because the big thing for this year's All-Star game is going to be Shone Otani.

That's the big deal. That's what's going to be the big draw. That's what all eyes are going to be on. He is going to be the main act of this All-Star game. You won't be – I mean, he'll be all over the place. I mean, because he's doing something we certainly haven't seen in our lifetime, and you can make the case that baseball hasn't seen since the early days of Babe Ruth. Right.

I mean, the guy, he's got 31 home runs, the 704 slugging percentage, and he's got 12 steals. And as a starting pitcher, he's got 12 starts. He's 3-1 with 83 strikeouts. opponents are batting just 083 off him with no home runs against particularly the splitter that he throws. So, I mean, I'm looking forward to the All-Star game, and it's disappointing that Scherzer's not going to be there. But again, all flights are going to be overlooked by the Shoney-Otani show. That will be the big deal.

Who's going to participate in the home run derby? Right. Yeah, what he's doing is amazing, and he is the story in baseball, period. I mean, the spider attack, sticky stuff, you know, the Post had an in-depth story, I mean, late last week, spin rates are down and offense is up since the enforcing of these rules. So it obviously, at least for now, has had an impact. But Scherz are not making the All-Star game was a major, major snub. This is actually, you know, statistically, he's having one of the best years, if not the best year of his career. He is, right now, he's averaging more than 12 strikeouts per nine innings.

And he's brought his walk rate down as well to the third lowest number of his career. The 12 strikeouts per nine innings is the highest rate of his career. and his ERA at 2.10, this would be his lowest ERA ever. He's been to seven straight. He's a big draw. He should have been in this All-Star game. It's a major, major snub. And there were others as well.

It would have been nice to see him in it. But the Otani thing, you're right. I mean, this is the biggest draw in baseball right now. It's remarkable. He's going to pitch and hit. It looks like he will hit as a designated hitter. But they've already said that in this All-Star game, he's going to pitch and hit in the All-Star game, which is, you know, it's amazing because

in recent weeks, I've just been following his home run ascension. He's up to 31 home runs now in 83 games, I think it is. So, you know, he's on pace for 59-ish in that neighborhood home runs. But like he's one of the few players that you've ever, when you pull up their stats on ESPN.com or any of the other sites, sites, MLB.com, you know, he's got the pull-down menu, a bad batting and pitching and fielding. Yeah. So he's got, you know, he's got all three, and it's just, it's remarkable. I know there was a lot of pushback on him, and, you know, from a pitching standpoint, it isn't always great. This year, it's been great. You know, his ERA is 3.6.

He, you know, and the few opportunities he had last year weren't very good. But my God, I mean, this dude is, Chelsea Janes was on with me this morning from the post, of course, and she sort of said it's like he is a combination of Trout and Scherzer. Which is he closer to? Is he close to either one of them as an individual? Like as an offensive player, is he Trout? As a pitcher, he's not Scherzer. He's not.

As a pitcher, he's not Scherzer. His offensive numbers are close to Trout. I've only seen him play once on TV. So I can't really speak to whether or not he's the all-round player that Mike Trout is. Mike Trout is the best player in baseball. So I'm not going to go there on that, but he is, he is, as the popular term, it's a unicorn. He's something that we haven't seen before. So I think there's going to be, I think the, I could be wrong, but I think the ratings

for the All-Star game are going to be up. Oh, obviously, it was no All-Star game last year. but on the year before. Because there'll be a lot of interest in watching this guy. The home run derby, Monday night, will probably even be bigger. So I know Trout's been hurt, and he's out for a while longer, I believe. But why aren't the angels better? Good question.

I don't know. I mean, they, you know, they play at a big market, but they're almost invisible still because, I mean, they don't necessarily play right in L.A. They play in Orange County in Anaheim. And, you know, they have a good, they had a great manager for years in Mike Sosha. They have another great manager in Joe Madden. They've got Anthony Rendon. He's not having a great year. No.

The former Natch face. favorite. They let Albert Pujols. They basically cut loose Albert Pujolz. I don't know what goes on with the Angels. But talk about an owner who's probably frustrated. Arty Moreno out there. He foresaw the Angels as being a legitimate competitor to the Dodgers in that market out there when he first bought the team. And they haven't done anything to really raise their profile, even with their great starts. Yeah, and they are in fourth place in their division, nine and a half behind the Astros who have been on a role recently.

All right, when we come back, I want to talk a little NBA finals, and I will talk, and Tommy can weigh in a few once on the Aaron Wiggins decision to stay in the draft. That next, after this word from one of our sponsors. The NBA finals start tonight. Yannis Santagumpo is doubtful for game one against Phoenix. Ben Standig was on with me this morning. We talked mostly on the radio show about the Washington football team, but we talked a little bit at the end about the NBA finals.

He's covered the NBA and the Wizards for years. By the way, the Wizards have narrowed down their choices of coaches to, according to Adrian Wojorn Rowski, of four. for assistant coaches, and they are Mosley in Dallas, Darvinham and Charles Lee in Milwaukee, and then Wes Unsell Jr. from Denver. Now, Wes Unsell Jr. is a significant candidate, a leading candidate for the Orlando job as well.

Sam Cassell's apparently out. I don't know why he's out. This is one of those things, Tommy, where we just don't know. I was telling somebody over the weekend, they're like, well, who should they hire? I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea anything about these assistant coaches. I don't know what their strengths are. I don't know what their weaknesses are.

I'm not involved in interviewing them. But Sam Kassell, who's been this incredibly successful assistant coach for so long, and he's got an interview after interview and can't get a head coaching job. Like there's something there that we don't know. It may be the way he interviews. It may be, I don't know what it is. I always thought he'd be a really good head coach, but he is not going to be the head coach of the Wizards,

according to most people. But back to the NBA finals. So, Ben said to me, Ben said to me this morning that in the history of the NBA finals, like it's been a long, long time since we've had, a series that hasn't had like an obvious superstar player in the finals. And he's right.

Like if you go through the list. Now, Janus is a superstar, okay, he is. And Janus, you can make the case as a top five player in the game. And Chris Paul is a longtime superstar at the end of his career playing great. And I think Devin Booker and DeAndre Aitner are both future stars in this league. but it's like the first time in a long time where you haven't had like a true established major superstar in the finals. Like even when Detroit won it in 2004 without an obvious top five player,

they beat Kobe and Shaq. Now, Janus, you could make the case, I guess, but it really is the most underwhelming, attractive NBA finals in Tommy. I went back all the way to Seattle against Washington. Washington in 1979. Because listen to the run since Seattle, Washington, and 79.

80 Magic was in the finals. 81 Bird. 82 Magic. 83 Magic and Dr. Jay. Same thing in 82. 84, Magic and Bird. 85, Magic and Bird. 86, Bird and Elijah won. And then you had 87, Magic and Bird.

88. Magic and Isaiah. And those Pistons teams. 89. Magic and and the pistons and Kareem. 90. You had the pistons and the Blazers, but at that point, the pistons were already becoming a dynasty and many dynasty, and Isaiah was a star. By the way, so was Clyde. Isaiah was a star. Yeah. Yeah. 91, Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. 92, Jordan. 93, Jordan. 94. Elijah Juan and Ewing. 95, Elijah Juan and a young shack. 96, 97, 98. Michael. 99. 99.

started the run of the Spurs, okay, and Tim Duncan, and by the way, back then David Robinson, then you had the run of Shaq and Kobe for three straight years. Then it was Duncan. Then it was Shaq and Kobe in the finals, even though they lost. Then it was Duncan. Then it was the heat with Shaq and Wade. Then it was Duncan at all in the Spurs again. Then in 2008, Kobe was in in it against Garnett and the Celtics. 2009, Kobe, 2010, Kobe. 2011, Dirk against LeBron in the finals. Then it was

LeBron, LeBron. Then it was back to Duncan again in the Spurs. Then it was Steph in the Warriors. Then it was LeBron. Steph, Steph. Then it was Steph and company against the Raptors in Kauai. And then last year it was LeBron again. And now we get Phoenix and Milwaukee. Lucky. Nobody, none of these stars have ever been in the finals. I think you can make the case that Janus is a top five player. He's not even playing in the game. But it's an odd matchup for the NBA

that always involves one of the clear-cut superstars in the game going all the way back to 79. And by the way, you can make the case that Elvin Hayes and Wes Unseld were true superstars in the game. But I like the Sons. I like the Sons in five games. I think they're the better coach team with Monty Williams. And Janice's health is obviously an issue. I think they're just a better team, a better coach team. And I think this is going to be short work five games, Phoenix over Milwaukee.

It would be funny if it turned out to be a great series, a seven-game series. It would be great. I would look forward to that. You know, it's funny, I think it's very anti-climactic. As much as I've been on here, urging people, including you, to watch the NBA playoffs because they've been great and they have been. There have been epic individual performances, there have been epic games. There's something about the sports that I love anyway.

You know, call it college football, the NFL, college basketball, and the NBA, which, you know, for me or my top four, you know, put them in whatever order you want to put them in. The NBA would be four out of that. But when you get to the championship, the Super Bowl, the final four in college basketball, the championship game in college football, the NBA finals, it's like the best part of it's already over. I've always found the Super Bowl to be very anticlimactic. That the best part of the NFL is the regular season and then those first several

weekends of lots of playoff games. You know, I think the NBA, when you've got it going every single night with two games, three games, and you've got all kinds of stuff happening, it's great. The NCAA tournament, those first two weekends are phenomenal. And I'm going to watch, but I'm really not excited about it. I mean, there's no reason to be excited about it. but, and I'm not saying it's going to turn out this way, but I certainly would welcome,

particularly among teams that I don't know much about, a real seventh game series battle. I'm going to root for Phoenix. I'm rooting for Chris Paul. They're the favorites. They're six-point favorite two in game one tonight without Janus. Are you okay? Yeah, I'm okay.

I'm going to make an edit there. Hold on. Okay. Three, two, one. They're the favorites to win the series. They're like, I think, minus 180, 185, something like that. They're a six-point favorite in game one tonight without Yonis playing for Milwaukee. I think part of the other reason I'm not like super ginned up for this. I'm going to watch it because I've been watching it all along and maybe it'll end up being great.

But God, the last couple of games of the Milwaukee Atlanta Eastern Conference final, were duds. You know, game five, neither Trey Young nor Janus Tentacompo played. And then in game six, when Milwaukee closed him out, no Janus, Trey Young was back, but he was clearly compromised with the ankle injury. And he was terrible in the game. And Milwaukee sort of won without, you know, kind of going away. And it was really boring. It's been, you know, part of it has been that it's been like, you know, almost a week, week and a half since we've had one of those dramatic games that we were having on a nightly basis for about a month straight. But I like Phoenix and five. I wanted to mention one more thing before we leave for the day. Two more things, actually.

Aaron Wiggins is keeping his name in the NBA draft, the Maryland wing player, small forward, who really played well at the end of his junior year. And, you know, there were stories. over the last couple of weeks. He didn't get invited to the NBA camp, but then he had a really good G-League camp, and he got the late invite. And then he didn't play well day one in the NBA camp, but played exceptionally well in day two.

Apparently, there have been several NBA teams that have interviewed him one-on-one, and there's a sense growing, I guess, that it's possible that he could get selected in the second round. I wish him the best, great kid from all accounts, like just the best. and I can't tell him what the right decision was. I can just tell you from a Maryland fan standpoint,

it's really hurtful news. Because Maryland's probably, with Wiggins coming back, they probably would have been a top five-ish, top-10 worst-case team, would have been the favorite to win the Big Ten or one of the top two favorites. And without them, they're still going to more likely than not be a top-20-ish kind of team preseason

and a pick-to-finish in the top three or four in the Big Ten, they're going to be a team that's going to be, they're going to have a good basketball team next year. But they could have had one of those special teams. You know, two years ago, that was a potentially special team. Mark Turgeon's best that didn't get to participate in the NCAA tournament because of COVID. I hope it works out for him. I'm rooting for him.

I always root for all the Maryland players when they make it to the NBA. It sucks that he's not coming back. I think, you know, many people say, well, what's the point. You rarely see a guy come back and then become, you know, a first round pick. I don't know. I think every situations are different. I think he had another year would have helped him. And more importantly, he would have had an opportunity to really sort of etch his name into Maryland basketball lore and history if the team had done really well. I know that's not nearly as a I think he made the right move for him. I mean, you know, again, if it doesn't work, he can go

over to Europe and get paid if he wants to. I mean, I don't know why these guys just don't do that anyway anymore. I mean, I just don't see between the new leagues that are starting up for these players coming out of high school and the G League and, you know, European basketball. I don't know why these guys even bother going to college to play who aren't interested in going to college. Well, maybe NIL will change that. You know, name image and likeness and some of the opportunities will change that a little bit. I think that, you know, we've had this conversation before.

I think that college basketball is a huge marketing platform for a lot of these players. You know, very few are coming out of high school and are going to command, you know, salaries overseas or even in the G League where that sit out of year anyway. I think a guy like Aaron Wiggins, I don't know if he made a mistake or not. I wish him the best. It sucks that he won't be on this team because it could have been a potentially special team and it still might end up being that. You know, if he in two years is playing in a second tier European league making, you know, $250,000 a year with all expenses paid or whatever, the top tiers you can make a half

million to a million bucks a year. And again, the really attractive part about playing internationally is for the foreign players, a lot of times all of their expenses are handled. But, you know, if he's in a second or third tier professional league two or three years from now after not really making the NBA, whether it was, you know, via a G league team or whatever, he may look at it and say, you know, if I'd gone back and if I had had an all big 10 year, been Big Ten player of the year if we had made a final four. I may have been a first round pick with a guaranteed four-year big-time contract.

But I don't, all of these kids' situations are different. And I know one thing about having conversations with a lot of people in the know in recent years. There's definitely this feeling among a lot of college athletes that once they turn 23, 24 years old, they're just ready to move on from college. And I totally understand that. You know, they feel like they're almost too old to be playing college basketball. Now, this upcoming season, Tommy, is a little bit different because of COVID and the fact that last year doesn't count. You're going to have a lot of guys playing their sixth years in college and a lot of guys playing their fifth year at 23, 24, maybe even 25-year-olds in college next year.

And that's something to keep an eye on next year. The older, the real old teams might be the teams to pick. But I understand that sense. Like, you know, I'm almost, you know, either I have my degree or I'm close enough to my degree and I'm ready to earn, you know, a living. I think with Aaron sticking in the draft, it would have been better to have more sellback. But they still should have a really good team next year. I wish him the best. I hope it works out for him.

I hope he gets picked in the second round and gets a guaranteed contract. That will really be the thing that will make everybody sort of say, okay, he got to. a second round guaranteed deal. You know, that makes sense now. It'll make sense to some. Personally, I think if you're not going to be picked in the first round with a fully guaranteed big-time deal and you've got a chance to up your stock by coming back, that maybe that would be the choice.

But I don't know the details of this. I just know that there was a chance that they were going to be preseason top five-ish with him. And without them, it's more like 15 to 25, you know. But they still could be very good. Good. Anyway, you got anything else for the show today? Yeah, I do. I got two things. First of all, Marve Albert did his last broadcast Saturday night after 55 years. I was fortunate enough to experience the early Marv Albert when he was the voice of the Knicks during the Willis-Reed Walt Fraser era and fell in love with Mark Albert's.

yes and Monroe from downtown and stuff like that so I mean that you know Marvall has a special place in my heart as an old New York Knicks fan and just one reminder everybody go to the DCGraise.com website and buy tickets for our benefit concert Sunday at Caddies on Cordell featuring the band King Saul the money, $25 a ticket, goes to help the D.C. Grays run camps and clinics for inner city kids. Please do that. It's a great cause and it'll be a fun event. I just wanted to comment on your Marv thing. I actually had that written down last week to talk about this with you. You've never actually told me that you were a big Marv fan. Never. I probably should have asked you at some point,

considering that that's where you grew up and you were a massive Knicks fan. But I can totally appreciate, you know, all of the honors. I mean, it seems like over the last couple of weeks it's been every single night that there's been a Mar-Balbert segment or something. And I understand especially for New Yorkers what he's meant to them, you know, over a long period of time. With that said, to me, and it's not that I've, It's not that I'm not a Marv fan, and I think he's always called a solid game. But to me, on the national level, he's not even close to some of the greatest lead play-by-play people in, you know, over a lot of different sports.

Like he's not in Somerol or Gowdy or Keith Jackson. Take a back. Give me a basketball name. Well, Jim Nance, college basketball, for sure. Dick Enberg, college basketball. Brent Musburger, the NBA. Oh, please. Not even close, in my opinion. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Not even close. You've got that spot on.

I think that New Yorkers have a completely different view, and I know that NBA fans, a lot of them have loved Marv. I'm just telling you my opinion, okay, that if you told me right now, these upcoming NBA finals are going to be called by Marv or Brent Musburger. Even Brent at 82 years old. Give me Brent. Brent's still good. Oh, okay. Don't make me come through this phone. This is unbelievable. Have you heard?

I can't believe we're ending this. You were ending this with such a bad case. This is just horrific. This is the most horrific thing you've said to me since I can remember. Why haven't you told me before in the many years? we've been doing stuff together that you were a big Marv fan. I've never heard you say that. Because I assumed everybody who listened to Marv Albert would be a big Marv fan.

I didn't think we'd actually come across somebody who watches the game and doesn't think Marv is great, but I found the guy. I think Marv, again, I think he deserves all of the honors. I think he deserves praise for being really good. I don't put him anywhere near.

the class of the great lead play-by-play guys of all time. On my list, the Sumerals, the Gauties, the Keith Jackson's, the Jim Nances, the Al Michaels, the Brett Musburger, the Dick Genbergs. You have to keep it to basketball. Okay, well, you know, first of all, Marv did more than basketball. He did NFL games for years. He did hockey games for years. No one has ever claimed that his greatness was anything but the,

But NBA basketball. What do you think Mike Breen learned from? Mike Breen's much better than Marv's ever been. I'm just telling you, Mike Breen is so much better than Marve's ever been. Let's finish this. I'm so angry, I can't even think straight. About the Marv stuff? Yeah.

Yeah. I was thinking, though, that the Marv stuff, in terms of just the NBA, like Dick Stockton for years, you know, followed Brent Musburger, who threw out, you know, the 70s was the lead play-by-play guy with Rick Barry and with Bill Russell, right? That was the, I think sometimes just Rick Barry. Then it was Dick Stockton, who was the lead with Tommy Hineson on CBS. And then when it went to NBC, that's when Marv took it over. And so Stockton is known just as much for football. Brent's known just as much for football, where Marv definitely of those names and Breen too,

definitely known much more for basketball. So I will give you that. But again, that wasn't my point anyway. My point is that I would have taken, in terms of lead play-by-play guys, a lot of guys before I'd take him. Oh, you made your point, all right? Yes, I did. We're done for the day.

You'll be back with... You're not right. We're done. You'll be back with me on Thursday. and for everybody else, enjoy the day. See you.