The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sole Owner Snyder

Episode Date: March 25, 2021

Kevin and Thom today discussing what Dan Snyder's buyout of his team's minority shareholders means and doesn't mean. Also, what's next? Will we get the details of the Beth Wilkenson report or not? How about the competition on this story between the New York Times and Washington Post....Thom's experienced thoughts on that as well. The boys talked a little Turgeon, Strasburg, and more. Also, Kevin had author Dave Ungrady on the show to talk about an interesting Len Bias project he's working on.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Long live the King. Your boy ain't going anywhere.

First off, happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Yep, remember that? Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. The introductory Ron Rivera press conference from January of 2020. Yeah. I'm sure everybody knows the news. John Orrin joined us on the show yesterday. and he was outstanding. Tommy is with me today. Tommy's written a column about it.

You know, to be honest, there's not much news to update on this story from yesterday, but there's a lot to talk about, which I want to do with my longtime friend and co-host, Tom Lavera, which we'll start here shortly. By the way, on the radio show this morning, I had Tyler Dunn on. Tyler was the one that broke this story. He's got a newsletter called Go Long TD. He used to be a bleacher report, reporters. You can hear that interview on the team 980.com or the radio.com app. By the way, also, I had Ryan Fitzpatrick on the show this morning.

He was great. I know that whatever. I don't even care about what Tom thinks about Ryan Fitzpatrick. If he is good, he is going to become very quickly the most popular athlete in town. If he plays well. Okay. And that's a big if with a lot of you, and that's fine. But if he plays well, he is going to become massively popular.

Let me remind everybody, if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please do that. It doesn't cost you anything. And if you haven't rated and reviewed it on iTunes or anywhere else that allows you to rate it and review it, do that as well. That really helps us out. How are you, Tommy? How are you doing? You know, for Dan Snyder, every day is Thanksgiving now. Every day is Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. I'll take another piece of pie. Thank you very much. All right. I weighed in yesterday for a significant period of time, and I'll rehash some of that, but I want to let you have at it first. Go ahead.

I was surprised at the news. I was tending to lean towards the possibility that the NFL was going to repel Dan Snyder, not embrace him. Could it have been more wrong about that? And I think that the whole sequence of events that happened in the last 48 hours, or at least in the 24 hours from yesterday to the day before, the Jason Wright interview with ESPN about the name change, Follow by the leak to the New York Times about the news that the NFL was going to make special considerations so Snyder could buy, could borrow money to buy out his partners.

I think this is an all-an orchestrated campaign by the team to let everybody know that Dan is large and in charge, and it's all about the rebrand. and what happened in the past is going to be put on a shelf that Beth Wilkinson report will be put on a shelf with all the other reports, analysis, plans, wherever they keep that stuff in the national archives of the NFL. You mean we'll have to wait like 30 years before we can listen to, you know, the tapes, the Nixon tapes. It'll be right next to the arc of the covenants, wherever they store that. I don't think that's at the National Archives in College Park. I would doubt that. That is where the National Archives are. Or that's certainly where some of them are kept at that.

Yes, that they have like a story center there. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree with all of that. Now, you know, I sort of leaned in the direction that there probably wouldn't be this, you know, this bombshell in the Wilkinson report. even though I was hopeful there would be that because, and I think it was going to be required. You know, that was one of the debates you and I had. I thought it was going to be required to get him out. And, you know, I think one of the clear, you know, by the way, I think the New York Times in many ways buried at least a quarter of the lead of this story, which was the fact, you know, and they wrote it at the end of their first paragraph, you know, this was the follow-up story to the Tyler Dunn's story. He had it first, but at the end of the first paragraph, you know, they wrote that Snyder is going to pay a fine for executives' misconduct.

Let me explain something. Let me tell you something. I could be wrong about this, okay? Most likely I'm wrong. But knowing the business and know how it works, the reason they kind of buried that, because they're not absolutely sure. Well, why would they say anything then? Well, because the question of this story is what happens now to Dan Snyder. That's the obvious question of the story. It was a question that they felt needed to be addressed. But there's no particular attribution to that part of this. I agree.

I think this is a conclusion. I think this is a conclusion as much as three. reporting. I think this is what you and I are reasonably coming to the conclusion that like reasonable people would. Well, they're not going to do this and then hammer the guy. Right. You know, that's so I don't think that is necessary. I don't think they necessarily know that for a fact. So let me just read the full opening paragraph from the New York Times story. Seeking to move past a year of tumult over the team's former name and sexual harassment investigation of front office. The owner of the Washington

football team is close to a deal with fellow NFL owners that will give him greater control over the franchise while he pays a fine for executives misconduct. Look, the story, if executives' misconduct isn't a part of this story, they didn't need to

make it a part of the story. The story is that the NFL is allowing him by waiving the debt limitation to buy out his minority shareholders. I understand that it's not, there's no attribution here, but why would they put it in there

if it's just conjecture on their part? I didn't say, because it's a question, it's a big matzab ball that's hanging out there. I know, but it didn't need to be in this story. I think it did. Why? I think it needed to be addressed one way or the other. How come they did not refer back to it in the entire story? That was weird.

I totally agree with that. But my point is the story was that Snyder was buying out as minority shareholders. Look, I'm not going to argue with you about what it should or shouldn't be in there. I'm just telling you what I think happened, why it's in there at all. And it's the only reference to it. And it's the bigger story. They're both big, but you're right. This is a big story because the only possible way he loses the franchise,

which, you know, the significant majority of the fan base is hoping that, hey, we got Ryan Fitzpatrick, we got Curtis Samuel, we got William Jackson III, and we might get rid of Snyder in this offseason. This would be the ultimate Washington offseason. So we know that the Beth Wilkinson report is what, you know, hangs in the balance in terms of maybe providing enough to oust him. And so them putting, if you're suggesting that this is like a throwaway guess that he's just going to be fined, I think it's too significant for them to just throw it away as sort of a guess. I don't think they know. Okay. I don't think they know.

If they knew, there would be more about it in the story. Can we assume for the purposes of our conversation today that that's what it's going to be? Or do you think? Yes, I agree. That's what I just say. Reasonable people would conclude that. Okay, fine. Yes.

Okay, because one of the things that you briefly got me excited, you titillated me briefly with the possibility that maybe more is coming and that maybe, because, you know, one of the reactions I saw from a lot of people when they read the, you know, he's buying out as minority shareholders is, well, maybe he's buying them out because he's going to sell the team as, you know, because they're going to allow him to sell the team by himself. and get a bigger, you know, bang for his buck, because the bottom line is, those minority shareholders would have preferred that they sell their shares in conjunction

with him selling his shares because it would have equated to a much higher valuation, and they would have made a lot more money on the sale. Their 40% would have been worth maybe double what they got for it. You know, not double. Well, yeah, would have been double what they got for it because the valuation on their purchase of their minority shares was 2.2.2. billion. This football team's worth north of four billion, probably four and a half billion. Maybe it's five billion. But you don't get that number unless the buyer, the purchaser, gets control of the team.

So that, they wanted their preference, Fred Smith and Bob Rothman and Dwight Schar's preference would have been to sell the team in conjunction with Dan selling the team because they would have made much more money. If they were just, if they didn't think he was going to sell, and maybe this should have been tell, by the way, Tommy. Maybe this should have been the bigger tell on what the minority shareholders thought, which was Dan's not going to be forced to sell this team and he's not going to choose to sell this team when they were trying to sell their shares through the guy in Baltimore to the group in California. We should have actually, I'm just sort of coming to that conclusion. I should have come to that conclusion sooner. It would have made sense. I know that they certainly would have

preferred to have sold their shares in conjunction with Snyder's shares. But at some point, they were looking to share just their 40% to somebody else, which should have been the absolute tell that they didn't think Dan was going to be forced to sell or wasn't going to choose to sell. You know what I mean? But anyway, back to... Okay, well, let's approach that because I think you're right. But that would have to mean that you'd have to operate on the assumption that, well,

maybe when they started trying to sell before there was a Beth Wilkinson report. I mean, they started to put the pressure on Snyder. That's true. Before Beth Wilkinson even existed in this thing. Before the whole thing. The poor of the Post story. Maybe they had an idea what was coming with the Post story at some point early on in this process. But, I mean, it's difficult to imagine the NFL going through these.

steps if Beth Wilkinson has a bombshell report. That's right. So we both like yeah, okay, we're repeating ourselves. We both are in agreement there. I guess I guess my what I was, the reason that we got to sort of this, you know, sort of reveal in my own mind about what I should have put two and two together when they were, when they had buyers, you know, the Jose Feliciano group out in California that were going to buy their minority share. for $900 million or whatever it was, and Snyder exercised the right of first refusal, or at least on Dwight Schar's shares,

which held that up. That should have been to tell that Snyder wasn't, you know, planning on selling his stake. And that's why those of you who reacted, well, maybe he's got 100%, but the league's going to force him to sell and he'll be able to make more money on the sale because he'll own the whole thing.

The bottom line is it's a good deal for Snyder to buy in at a $2.2 billion valuation when the organization that he has is worth $4 plus billion, but it's only worth that if you're going to sell it, and he's not going to sell it. I think that's the there are a couple of conclusions. One,

he's not going anywhere, and two, with respect to the Wilkinson investigation, there's no bombshell. We agree on both of those things. Yes. Yes, that would, I mean, anything else would be, it just doesn't make sense.

There are a couple of other things to this, and you sort of alluded to it in your column. You know, what this does for him, you know, in addition to getting actually a pretty good deal. And by the way, you know, being able to do it because they waived the debt limit, which is going to be a no-brainer with these new television deals, which are worth, you know, John was on with me yesterday, John Orand. And, you know, $110 billion. Like, he's going to be able to pay this off in a few years once they start getting the first checks from the new TV deals. But actually, John brought up, and then I added to it, that, you know, he could still bring on new minority investors.

And I said, you know what? That makes a lot of sense. Because imagine with all of their emphasis on diversity over the next year, if he brings on a very diverse group of minority investors. The league would probably love that. And, you know, it would allow him to pay off the debt faster. Anyway. That may be. But NFL owners, as a real estate.

rule do not like to have partners. I know, but many of them do. And in Dan, I mean, it's not that they're something they seek out unless they need money. Yeah. Well, and Dan, you know, this is, it comes to as a surprise to many. Dan had to borrow to buy the team and he had to just borrow to buy out as minority shareholders. Now, still he had to come up with 425 million in cash on his own because it was a reported $875 million buyout, $450 million. I'm assuming that he uses all of the available debt, the increased debt ability. But anyway, what I wanted to get to is this. The other thing this does for him is all of the craziness, the lawsuits, the shenanigans, the allegations, the bickering, the accusing, the threatening. It all goes away with this.

In my opinion, I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. but in the purchase of the remaining 40% of the equity in the Washington football team from Fred Smith, Dwight Schar, and from Bob Rothman, there has to be some sort of understanding confidentiality agreement that we ain't talking about each other after this. So anything they know about him and anything he knows about them and anything he was suing, you know, remember, he's alleged that Dwight Schar and Bruce Allen, among others, are behind a smear campaign against him. But all of that, all of that ugliness, which I'm sure the league is thrilled at, it's over.

That stuff's going away. Do you agree with that? I agree with that. How convenient. I do agree with that. I think it's all going away at this point. I mean, there is still a tremendous amount of curiosity, or at least there should be, even if there's a lot of depression right now about this news,

about how the Wilkinson report will be handled. What will they reveal? How much information will be public and how much pressure there will be for the NFL to make it public, and will they care about that? What do you think? I think it'll be a toned-down report, and I think they'll make it public. What do you mean a toned-down report? I think Beth Wilkinson is a good soldier.

Okay. Like I've said all along. I know. She's the one who stood on the steps of a courthouse and said the NFL did nothing to hide medical information about concussions from its players. You know, and she did it with a straight face. So, I mean, I think she's a good soldier. And I just think that the Wilkinson report will not have the impact that people thought it would. And I think in order for the NFL to make it public, that's going to have to happen.

And I think the NFL is going to have to make it public because it'll be a tremendously bad look. if they do this for Snyder and then they keep the report secret. Well, they're going to have to have a reason at the very least to fine him. I mean, you know, if the New York Times last paragraph of that story about finding him for executive misconduct is true, they're going to have to give a reason why they're fining him for executive misconduct, even though we were all hoping the punishment would be much worse. By the way, not draft picks. Do whatever you want to do to him.

Don't take our draft picks. But it will be rearview mirror stuff. Now words, I would bet the Wilkinson report is about what happened and how they fixed it. I totally agree with what you just said in that last line. It's not only going to be about how they fixed it, but how they're continuing to fix it with Tanya and Jason and all of the other people not named Dan conveniently. and what they've been working on. And all of the great hires that they've made and all of the great business practices

that they've put into place to ensure that this doesn't happen. Again, remember, Goodell mentioned that during the Super Bowl press conference that they had made a lot of progress and they had implemented a lot of new policies and business, you know, best business practices, you know, which, by the way, is a total, you know, sort of McKinsey consultant. We're going to come in there and we're going to

look at your situation and we are going to implement best business practices. I mean, all that stuff drives me crazy to hear it because it's like all the theoretical stuff that used to drive me nuts when I would meet with some of these people. But that's what it's going to be. I agree with you. This is going to be, I don't know about the tone down. I think more importantly, we're not going to get to read it. We're going to get some sort of summary.

That's going to be a bad, bad look. I know you. I agree with you on that. But what is she going to do? For a league, that's. that's very sensitive since the Ray Rice about their image with women, this will be something that won't be easily defended. But what would be worse for them is if they basically gave them more power and whatever

it is that's red pisses people off and says, how could you in this environment give him more power, more ownership? Well, Kevin, if they don't release the report or parts of the report, people will automatically assume that it's too damaging to reveal. You think that's what they'll assume? And they will conclude that. Okay. Okay.

Well, then then the only way to avoid that, I'm not disagreeing with you in terms of if they don't allow that report to become public, that the assumption will be it's terrible. I think that's a fair, you know, a fair prediction. then they're going to have to release the report, and then your idea that it'll be some toned-down version is in play. And with the emphasis on what they've already done and what they're currently doing to make the organization a much safer place to work for women and anybody else. But I don't think we'll ever going to find out what happened.

I don't think we'll ever find out what happened on that airplane ride from Vegas. Well, we're certainly not going to find out from any of the previous minority shareholders anymore. They have been silenced, I believe. You know, unless there's some sort of, you know, like you said, 30 years from now, the Snyder Minority Shareholder tapes are available at the National Archives building. You can go put headphones on and listen to them. But you've got to show up at the actual facility.

Yeah. Listen, after Dan Snyder's name, you know how if you're doctor, you have the letters MD, Dan Snyder should start using Daniel Snyder NDA, non-disclosure agreement. I think it would be more serious than that. He needs confidentiality agreements. Those NDAs are typically not even worth the paper they're written on, but confidentiality agreements carry much more significant weight. At least that's what I remember from that world.

You know, the thing that you mentioned about the name, right? So during all of the stories and the discussion yesterday, and by the way, I want to make just one thing clear, because I know some of you, and it's fine. I don't care that you are just focused in on the football thing. But to me, they blend together, and I don't know why some of you don't see that. Sometimes I think some of you are like, you know, can we just talk about whether or not they're going to sign Adam Humphreys today? because John Kine reported that Adam Humphreys is in the building or they're talking to Adam Humphreys. You know, Tampa Bay, Tennessee, been out, been injured for a little while, but he played with Ryan Fitzpatrick and Tampa. You know, slot receiver type.

Nikiel Harry apparently might be a target as well. And I know some of you would just prefer that, especially in this offseason that's had mostly positive football team news. But the two go hand in hand, people. I mean, if you don't think that the last 21 years of this owner, and this owner's influence has been destructive in a way that's basically ruined what we used to have. And now that, you know, there's this one little glimmer of hope, you know, this one, you know, a long shot possibility that he might finally be gone has now been wiped away. And now he's actually, you know, perhaps emboldened in his own mind. Yes. More powerful.

Yeah. If you don't think that there's still the possibility that he will fuck this up seven ways to Sunday, I'm not sure where you've been for the last 21 years. Now, I'm hopeful, like many of you are, that Ron doesn't have, you know, a Bruce Allen in between him, you know, doesn't have a Vinny in between him, that, you know, Ron's hired some good quality people and maybe Dan's finally learned his lesson. You know, I hope that's true. and I don't completely dismiss the possibility that, you know, he changes.

But more likely than not, you know, I don't know that ultimately this is going to end well. I hope they have a really good team this year. You know, I hope it's a 12 and 5 season, 11 and 6. I like doing the 17 game thing now, Tommy. Yeah, that confuses everybody when you start rolling those numbers. Right. But, you know, this is significant. Yesterday was significant.

What's happening and what has been happening off the field is significant. But anyway, I wanted to get into the name thing because while all this was going on, it was very interesting what was happening with Jason Wright and his team on the name side of the, you know, the new branding side of the building. And we will get to that. Go ahead. Hello? No, go ahead.

I do agree that the timing of that was not coincidental. Well, I actually want to ask you also about how this story got out, because I took a leap on just a guess, and I connected some dots, and I wanted to see if you thought that I connected the dots accurately. But what, the brand campaign, whether or not it was coincidental, I don't know, probably not. It was probably not coincidental. Let's get to that next, right after this word from one of our sponsors. So yesterday, as all of this reporting from Tyler Dunn first and then the New York Times, and then the post, Mark and Liz had a story. And I do want to ask you just about the competition. I know we've talked about it in the past, the competition between the New York Times and the Washington Post on all of this. But at the same time, the Washington football team was holding an inside the rebrand conference, I guess.

led by Jason Wright, the team's new president, and also some of their new marketing people, et cetera. In fact, I'm looking at, you know, it was on Clubhouse, and it started yesterday. It was between 10 and 11 a.m., inside the rebrand. The participants were team president, Jason Wright, and then Code and Theory CEO, Dan Gardner. I don't even know what that is. But anyway, it looks like they were a sponsor to this whole thing. And the moderator was Janine Pogi or Pogi. She's with Ad Age.

And it looks like they were sort of a participant in this as well. So, you know, all the while all this is breaking, you know, they're talking about the new name. And Jason Wright with John Kime the other day also said, you know, maybe Washington football team. There's a lot of sentiment that we should keep Washington football team. By the way, I haven't met one person that has said keep Washington football team. I've certainly heard FC Washington, Washington FC. that's actually my preference, but I've told you before here in recent months, I'm so less passionate about this issue. Other than this, Tommy, and actually just reminded me this,

pick a goddamn name at this point. You know, seriously, like, enough is enough. Like, you know, this, all of this, you know, inclusiveness, you know, building it, we got 15,000 submissions and we're going through all of this. Come on now. All right, this sounds like all of this. You, come on now. All right, this sounds like all of the consultant stuff I used to listen to. It's time to pick a new name. And if you're not going to pick a new name, say you're not picking a new name. But it's time to basically fish or cut bait on this thing. It's just too much.

The more they squeeze out of this, the more misdirection they can get. It's all about misdirection. Okay. So the more they're doing this, then on days like yesterday, they can misdirect. They can divert. I mean, yeah. I mean, if fans are talking about the name, name. They're not talking about the Wilkinson report. I just couldn't give a shit about this anymore.

I want the team to be really good. I'm optimistic that the team has a chance to really improve here. Very optimistic, as you know, about Ryan Fitzpatrick. Very excited about that. And I just think this other stuff is, I mean, it just reeks of, you know, a bunch of guys wasting a lot of time in front of a whiteboard, you know, making these grandiose, you know, using all these big business marketing buzzwords talking about how all these people, oh, we really care about what you think, but really they've got like two or three that they're going to go with regardless. They've already done a lot of the work on this. And if they're not, they may be keeping a Washington football team for another year. It was very expensive to swap out all the stuff at FedEx Field. I know that. I don't know why they had to swap it all out. There were no fans there last year. That was probably the biggest waste of money they've ever had. Like, why did they have to swap out?

everything Redskins and put in Washington football team at FedEx Field last year when they didn't have one fan attend a game. Maybe a few family members late. But anyway, I, by the way, for those that said, oh, now that Fred Smith is gone, you know, remember, the name is gone, in part because we had this, you know, this perfect storm last summer of so many things, so much heightened sensitivity. And I'm not. being critical of it. Many of those things very justifiably, you know, increased sensitivity on. And then Fred Smith and FedEx had that opportunity to basically make a demand. You know, that was a snapshot in time and he took advantage of it because they hadn't done it before then. You know,

that had not happened before George Floyd or any of the events of last summer. And a lot of people, I got a kick out of it, you know, said maybe now that Dan has gotten rid of Fred Smith. Yeah, they're going They're going to bring back the name. No, that's not going to happen. That ship is sailed, brother. That horse is long gone from that barn. It's not happening. But, you know, seriously, like, I just pick it. Get a name. Stop the consultant whiteboard crap and give us a name. Pick one. I don't care what it is at this point. I really just want the team to be good. By the way, are you surprised that I don't about that anymore, that the loss of Redskins, which you know how adamant I was for so many years that this shouldn't change. You know, the data would have made me change my mind if the data had changed. It never did. Are you surprised that I don't give a shit about this anymore? Well, I think, look, I think for even for smart people like you, that can compartmentalize a lot

of things. There's an exhaustion level that kicks in. There's always so much. much with an organization that really doesn't do anything for you except frustrate you that you have then i mean i think at some point you just say i don't give a shit what they're called just someone just want to see the football it's you know there's an exhaustion level the only thing i care about i just obviously don't want to lose washington you know i want my city to be a part of whatever it is like even though it's that team isn't in washington i know but But it's, you know, I mean, I don't live in, I will soon be living in D.C., but I've lived in Maryland. I always tell people that I'm from D.C. So I, whatever, you know, so there was one other thing I wanted to mention to you real quickly.

So I, by the way, and I asked you about this last night, but I tweeted out after the New York Times story came out. I said, you know, I said, zero chance league waives financing rule for an owner under investigation involving sexual harassment if he's on his way out, which is basically what we talked about. But the way I wrote it, many of you thought that I was saying that there's zero chance that the league's going to waive the financing rule. And you said, Cheehan, you're wrong on that. And I heard from actually other people that it's not that they matter more than any of you, but said, hey, Kev, you got that one wrong, man.

You got that one totally wrong. They did waive the financing rule. And I'm like, yeah, I know they did. And they said, well, that's not what you wrote. I said, what do you mean? And so I went back. The way I wrote it, I guess it made it sound to something. some that I said that the league wasn't going to waive the financing rule.

What I was saying was that they wouldn't have waived the financing rule if he was on his way out and allowed him, you know, I knew that they had waived the financing rule. Anyway, I don't want to spend any more time on that. The last thing I wrote was the story likely leaked from the team. And the reason you know this is that the New York Times got it much before the Washington Post. They don't leak anything to the Post. They hate the Post. I can't imagine that they love the Times either, but that's another story.

But do you think, and that was a sort of connect the dots thing. I had a source sort of indicate to me based on, you know, who their PR groups are. I knew about MWW. I actually did not know that the team was working with Rock Nation, JZ's group, but apparently they are. But did you connect the dots that way, too, that, you know, it had to come from the team, right? Well, like I said, I think the whole sequence of events, this seminar that they were holding, the ESPN interview about the name, the release of this information. Yeah, I think basically they're getting, look, because I don't think they're too smart in that building to figure all this stuff out on their own. I think they're getting a lot of PR help from somebody who is always trying to orchestrate the conversation about something other than, you know, the Wilkinson report.

Or if there is anything to it, anything positive. So, yeah, I agree with you. I think it was a leak. I think it was an orchestrated leak. And, I mean, the New York Times is always incompetent. with the Washington Post. I mean, down the line in every way, shape, or form. So, yeah, they got to take a shot at the Post, too.

I mean, because the Post didn't have this. They came back with their own story, but it's not the story. No, and maybe the Post has another story, you know, that's coming down the road. But, you know, you better. Well, that's what I was going to ask. That's so that's what I was going to ask you. Well, like, what is this kind of, like, this is a big story. story, right? It's certainly a big story for the Washington Post, given that the team,

you know it in their name, Washington football team, they're located in Washington. So what is this competition like between the Times and the Post for this? By the way, neither one of them broke this news. This guy Tyler Dunn broke the news. Absolutely. Absolutely. So what is? But when you're a small little operation on the, on the internet, you know, on social media, what? No risk. I mean, well, basically, no, that's not what I mean. I mean, is if you're to New York Times, you can sort of take over the story and nobody's going to notice it.

Okay. You know? Yeah. Says big newspaper guy. Unfortunately, that's what happens. Let me tell you, personalize this a little bit how the inside of a newsroom works, whether it's a New York Times or to Easton Express. I once got beat. Me and another guy, we covered a fatal accident.

on a Saturday night in eastern Pennsylvania. And there were an elderly couple that was killed. And we were in a deep competition with the Allentown paper at a morning call. And in their Sunday edition, they had the names of the couple. We didn't. I didn't have it. My partner didn't have it because we made the mistake of not going right to the coroner's office themselves and getting the name. Okay. So when we came in on Monday, everybody in a building was looking at us like we had screwed up because we got beat.

I mean, composing room people who have nothing to do with the news were looking at us like how embarrassing. The competition got this story and we didn't. So you got to come back with something. You've got to come back with an angle. Well, luckily, I managed to track down the daughter of. the couple and wrote what we call in the business a nice hearts and flower story the next day about their lives. That sort of took the pressure off me a little bit. You've got to come back with some kind of angle that's different and fresh. I mean, you pick yourself up after getting beat and then you come back with. So, I mean, the post has got to be, I mean, because they had,

you want to own the story. And, you know, the posts had to own. has owned the Wilkinson story, obviously far more, I mean, the sexual harassment story, far more than the New York Times did. Right. As so far. And you don't want to lose ownership of that. And this is all connected. So at the Washington Times, when you were writing sports at the Washington Times, and you still do.

I still do, but I only write once a week. I know. I know. And you're a column. a reporter. Right. I'm just curious if Washington Times beat

reporters had that kind of pressure versus the post. Well, I mean, look, when I covered sports. Well, when we had a really strong sports staff, I think there was.

Look, the Washington football team has always been considered in either newsroom, one of the most important beats on the paper. Right. Okay.

I mean, so if, so if you're covering the Washington football team, everybody in the newsroom looked at you. By the way, that's just the sports department. Right. I was just going to say, you're not talking in the sports, you're talking about for the, for everything. Everybody. The managing editor, the publisher, on down.

Because they're all football fans. I mean, they're fans. So it's worse. It's worse than getting beat like on a city hall story. Yeah. Because they care more about. They're paying more attention to it. So, yeah, it was always a big deal.

And, I mean, back, you know, back when I was a reporter covering baseball, like whether it was baseball coming to Washington or whether I, you know, when I was a beat writer on the Orioles, you damn right. You know, if you got beat, you wanted to come back with something different. So, yeah, it was always a big deal. Not so much anymore. All right. What else did we miss from any of this from yesterday? Anything? What do you think the timing will be on the Wilkinson report? Is there any advantage to them quickly releasing, quickly finishing if it's not finished yet, and releasing it or delaying it?

Well, aren't the league meetings next week to sort of finalize all of the stuff? So, you know, it probably doesn't come out before then. I don't know. I don't know what the answer to that is. It wouldn't surprise me, Tommy. It wouldn't surprise me if it, like, comes out the night of the draft. Yeah. You know, like literally, they release it the night of the NFL draft, which is, you know, one of the biggest nights of the year for the league.

Yeah. That wouldn't surprise me at all. But here's the thing. If you're the Post or the Times, and, you know, this has been the post story for the part. They got to get it. You got to get it. Yeah. You can't let the NFL dictate when this story comes out. You got to figure out a way to get it. So how do you get it? I mean, you know, we talked about, you know, the junkies information from a week and a half ago or whenever it was. And we both believe that that was not just made up. It wasn't just a bunch of sports talk,

you know, yaks having at it. We're, we're, we're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're. We're And by the way, at this point, you know, it doesn't mean anything. You know, Jason's report was that the Wilkinson recommendations were one of two things, right? It was to either force him to sell the team or to fine him significantly, right? I'm almost forgetting what it was now. Do you are you- Something like that. Suspension.

No, suspension. Oh, or suspension, right, or suspension. Yeah. Exactly. And so we don't know, well, you're suggesting the fine thing isn't even definite at this point. But what we do know is he's not going to be forced to sell the team. That was made very clear yesterday. Yeah.

Absolutely. That was definitely made clear by what happened. You know, I mean, the report is diluted at this point. because the only outcome, the Lombardi Trophy outcome for fans is he's forced out. I mean, the other ones suspending him is nice, but no one believes he's going to come back, you know, at a suspension, a reformed human being. And I use those words loosely, loosely. And a fine, you know in business, a fine is the cost of doing business. Yes, we call it shrink.

Yes. Yeah, I think that's all true. I just, who knows? I mean, I remember talking to somebody if it was just only a couple of months ago that sort of suggested that the Post had a lot more, that there were a lot more women. But I'm assuming that the Wilkins report knows that. You know, by the way, for the post to beat everybody to the punch, to get, you know, access to this, they're going to have to get access to people who are part of that investigative group for Beth Wilkinson. Or I guess people in the league that have already read it.

Yeah, I mean, look, when you work at the Washington Post, there are thousands of people that work at the Washington Post. Yeah. Okay. And all different forms besides the newsroom. So you have lots of eyes and ears out there that are paying. attention to stuff that could somehow maybe, you know, you know, mentioned to somebody in a newsroom, hey, I heard this. Hey, I heard that. I mean, sometimes these things happen. Like, you know, I mean, you saw the, all the president's men. It's usually low level office people

who either type up a report or, or file a report, who have this information and wind up leaking it one way or the other. So, I mean, there's Who's the Mark felt? Who's the deep throat, Tommy? Somebody's going to be deep throat. You would think so. Liz is going to be in some garage over Northern Virginia late at night, you know, behind some big post and somebody's going to be in a whispering.

Yeah, you follow the money. Follow the money. That's, it's always about following the money. I mean, you would think Snyder has. so many enemies. There's so many people rooting for a different outcome than this, that it's hard to believe that the NFL will be able to sit on the report. Right. All right. Nothing else. Do you have anything else for today? You see, Steven Strasbourg has a ruptured tendon or something like that in his calf? Yeah. So what is the, I mean, is this going to be another out for a while?

I thought it wasn't ruptured. No, it's ruptured. It is? According to the reports, it's ruptured. But apparently, it's one of the few parts of your body

that you can rupture, and it doesn't mean anything. Oh, my God. This guy... I know. He even found... And I love the guy, okay? But he even found a part of his body

to hurt that doesn't hurt him. Look, I mean, You know, at this point, you know, after what he did in game six against Houston, it doesn't matter. He provided one of the greatest moments in D.C. sports history and delivered in the clutch like I don't know anybody else that has other than maybe Rigo in Super Bowl 17 or Doug Williams in Super Bowl 22. He really did. I mean, that is that that game six facing elimination down three to. having lost three games in a row at home in Houston. Astro's expecting basically to close them out with all the momentum. And remember, Tommy, it was Paul Menhart.

Paul Menhart told the story about how Strasbourg was tipping his pitches early on. Remember, he gave up some hits and runs early in that game. And Paul Menhart and Davy Martinez actually discussed whether or not to tell him that he was tipping. his pitches because they thought it might throw him. But they made the decision to tell him, which by the way turned out to be the right decision. And then he basically went out the rest of the way and mowed everybody down until the ninth inning where he finally was taken out in one of the great performances by

anybody locally of all time. I just always feel for him because he obviously has a body that just breaks down. You know, this apparently isn't. This apparently isn't serious. Well, okay. When you hear a rupture, when the verb rupture is used, it usually doesn't mean something good. And you're trying to make it up to be something good. But this is no big deal.

And I might want to point out, they rewarded Paul Menhart with that little move by firing him at the end of last year. I know. Well, and he didn't even have Strassberg last year. But, I mean, you know, I mean, the opening day is coming April 1st, a week from today, a week from today at Nats Park. And, you know, one thing that that's really positive in spring training so far is Josh Bell and Ryan Zimmerman, their first base combination. It's just knocking the leather off the ball. Yeah, but your boy, Carter Key Boom, is not doing. well. You know, he's not my boy.

Okay. I just as soon see him start Luis Garcia at second base and move Castro the third. They can't be running a school for third base. It's too competitive in the National League East and there there's a big emphasis this year

on not getting off to a slow start like they've done almost every year under Davie. Right. You know? I mean, you know, 19 and 31 was a nice story but nobody wants to do that again. No, nobody wants to say, hey, let's get back and try to repeat the 19 and 31 story. No, we'd prefer to be 31 and 19.

Well, I mean, you know, I've talked to several people on the radio show over the last couple of weeks since the beginning of spring training. And the one thing that everybody has agreed on is that the division landscape is brutal. Like every single team in the division is really, really good. In fact, Tommy, you know, as bullish as some are on the Nats and the prospect of them having. a really big series. They are the third pick in the AL East, in the NL East. In the National League East, the Braves and the Mets are both the favorites. They're the co-favorites.

The Nats are like picked to finish third, and it's not, and it's pretty close between them and the Phillies. And let's not forget the Marlins were in the postseason in the COVID-19, you know, shortened season. It's a very, you know, people forget that the first year of baseball in Washington, when the nationals wound up going 500. 50 and 31. Yeah.

But they wound up 81 and 81. Last place. Nobody in the NEO East had a losing record. They were 50 and 31 through 81 games, and then they went 31 and 50 in the second half. And it was the first year here, and it was like, oh, my God, the first year here, they're really good.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's a very competitive division right now. All right. Well, next Thursday on one of your two days of the week, we'll do a net season preview. And they will be that game, opening day is actually an opening night game on ESPN against the Mets. And it sure's against DeGrom. And then you get a couple days off. And I don't know who. I mean, I would hope that Strasbourg is ready to pick. As far as I know, Strasbourg will be ready. Okay. If not, it would be Patrick Corbyn, obviously. That will be my return to Nats Park.

I didn't go all last year throughout the whole 60 game debacle. But I will be there on opening. Thank God only knows why. I mean, you know, I can't talk to any players in person. I can't talk to any coaches or the manager in person still. You know, so, I mean, there's no benefit. For me being there, but I am going to be there. I mean, I don't want to get into this because you and I've had this conversation so many times over the years about being there versus not being there.

Bottom line is, in terms of the game itself, you get more out of it on television. But I understand what the benefit is of being in the locker room, but you can't be in the locker room. You're going to be on a Zoom call, and you can do that from home. But that Saturday game is an afternoon Saturday game, which, by the way, now that I'm thinking about it, it's Final Four Saturday. It'll be the Final Four day. So that'll be right during the first game of the Final Four next week. By the way, I've got somebody about to join me to end the podcast.

Dave on Grady, who wrote the Len Bias book and is involved in another project. He's going to join me to talk about that. There's actually some interesting stuff related to Bias. and the 35-year anniversary coming up on his death. But I did want to mention that I don't know anything for sure, but I can just tell you that a lot of the speculation yesterday about Turgeon, I'm not buying it. And the speculation was that he's looking to move on

and that he's not going to get an extension. I would not wager on that at this point. It would not shock me if he does get extended. But I don't know anything for sure, and I think a lot of it's still being figured out. But yesterday there was a lot of reporting that Turgeon's moving on. They've decided not to extend him. I do think I know enough to know that that decision hasn't been made yet or hadn't been made as of last night.

But if I had to wager, I would wager more on him getting extended and staying than him moving on. I could be wrong, though. This is a very, this is a, this is a, this is definitely a difficult decision for everybody involved. It wouldn't be that difficult for me, as you know. I would have extended them after last year. But for a lot of you, you're hoping it doesn't happen. Others are hoping that it happens. Tommy, it's really very much split the fan base in many ways.

I don't even know if it's split it. I think more people probably would prefer to make a change than stay the course. but it's an interesting period right now for Maryland basketball. The Maryland fans that I come in contact with on social media, it's pretty anti-turgeon at this point. Yep. And I would hope that the athletic director and the school president and the board of trustees and anybody else that would be involved in the decision-making process,

I hope they don't cave to the mob here. And, you know, maybe they will, maybe they won't. I think if they move on from them, I actually do think that fan response will have a lot to do with it. But it's not just fan response. It's economics, too. You know, last year was a really good year, not this past year because they couldn't have anybody. But last year, when they were, you know, a top 10 team for much of the year and the Big Ten co-champions, you had, you know, most of the games. Certainly most of the Big Ten games were sold out and great atmosphere.

year. But, you know, there was a couple of year period there after they were preseason, you know, the preseason, one of the co-favorts to win the national championship in 2016, and they ranked two preseason, and every game that year was sold out. You know, there was a bit of a step back after the disappointment of just getting to the Sweet 16 that year. So they've got a lot to, you know, I don't, the economics of that university, for whatever reason, when it comes to athletics in particular, it's just never been very strong. And part of that is because they don't have a massive revenue generating football program, you know, compared to the teams they're competing within their own league right now.

It's a football conference. And Ohio State is, and Michigan and Penn State are massive football programs, and football programs generate a lot more money. And, you know, a lot of that shared within the 14 conference schools, the TV money, etc. But there's a lot more to, you know, the revenue model. than just TV money in college sports. If you can fill up a 110,000 seat stadium every weekend and add that up times seven a year and see what that number comes to.

Maryland's never had that, or they haven't had any, they've never had that, but it's been since Ralph Region was here where they actually had sellout crowds, and their sellout crowds were 50,000, you know, at Bird Stadium or at Capital One Field, whatever it's called now. We're going to get to Dave on Grady next. I will talk to you on Tuesday. Okay, boss. All right.

Up next, a guest, Dave on Grady talking about Len Bias, right after this word from one of our sponsors. Before we get to our next guest, I want to mention to everybody that MyBooky's got a great deal going right now. If you use my promo code at mybooky.ag, you can secure a deposit bonus up to $1,000. You have to use my promo code, Kevin D.C., so that they know. that I hooked you up. Kevin D.C. at my bookie.orgie. Now, my bookie, as I've mentioned before, they've got everything you need.

They've got plenty of prop bets, all in-game stuff, live betting. They've got an online casino. They've got an online racebook. And obviously with the Sweet 16 games coming up, plenty of opportunities with these final 16 teams playing eight games over the weekend. And then another four on Monday and Tuesday

in the Elite 8. You can also bet a lot of prop bets for the NFL already. They got a lot of that. Go to mybooky.orgie.ag. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. to secure a deposit up to $1,000. All right, we're going to finish up the podcast today with Dave Ungready. Dave has written two Maryland basketball books. Born Ready, which was the story of Len Bias, and he also wrote Legends of Maryland Basketball. And we're going to talk with Dave about a project that he's involved in. It's a 34 plus one campaign. Leonard's jersey number 34 plus one 35 years ago

that he played in his final games. 35 years ago we just celebrated last month the famous North Carolina Chapel Hill first win at the Dean Dome game. And of course this June it'll be 30. years since his passing. And Dave's joining us now, and I want to talk about the project that you're involved in, but it's like a perfect day. We scheduled this, you know, a while back to do this. You're a big Maryland basketball guy like I am, and you've written books about the program and about, you know, its greatest player in Lenn bias. So literally, and I was telling somebody yesterday

that the last two days, not today, but on Tuesday and, on Tuesday and Wednesday, I could have taken calls for three hours straight on, you know, do you stay the course with Turgeon or do you move on from Turgeon? What do you think? I think it probably wouldn't be wouldn't hurt to make a change. And I read this morning that he is considering being sort of proactive and looking for other stuff on his own. I mean, how many years has you been here? It's been 8, 10, more than that, correct? Yeah, 10 years. 10 years. That's plenty of time to to have an impact on a program. We can look at his program and if he's graduating players, that's great, and he's respected by the community and the athletic department and everyone. But, you know, Kevin, the reality

is you got to progress. Is it progressing? Now, if you look at last year, misfortune not playing in the tournament, they probably, that was their best chance to really have a good run in the tournament, I think, on detergent. They didn't get it. They surprised people a little bit this year. with a with a strong run at the end and and it's just a wacky wacky season with COVID and everything but I I wouldn't be uncomfortable with the change I think maybe it would please everybody if he was proactive about it so you don't have the

you don't hurt feelings here and not that that's the biggest issue but I think I think it wouldn't hurt sometimes sometimes it's just good to make a change and and restart things and maybe that's what it needs. By the way, you know, there was a lot of speculation yesterday. My belief, actually, is that he's going to get extended. I can't say that definitively. You know, I've talked to a bunch of people. I don't know anything for sure. But my, if I had to wager, I would wager that he would get, he would get extended. And you and I, I think, are on opposite sides of this. I just think that the trend here recently is he's become a better

coach and maybe the best is ahead of him. But, you know, at the same time, I mean, this is something that people are very passionate about. You know, I don't know why, and I'm trying to think it was a friend of mine who texted me the other day. He goes, we need you to weigh in on this. Bias or Dixon, who's the best player in Maryland basketball history? And I just said, oh, it was on Twitter with somebody. And I just said, it's bias. And I said, you know, Dixon's the greatest winner. And he's no doubt in my mind. He's the same. second greatest player in Maryland history. But if you watched Len Byas, while they only made Sweet 16s, he was the best player at his position. He was a, you know, a transformative player for them.

And forget about what the pro career would have been. I just thought he was a better all-around college player. What's your answer to the question? You wrote a book, Legends of Maryland Basketball. Who was your number one player? Well, I would, I would, I would. I would, I'm going to pick someone else for impact. Well, actually, you know, let's talk about Dixon and bias first. As an individual, individual player ability, just the skills to do things that just blow your mind. That was Len bias. Yeah.

For an impact player, and I'm coming to you as a, I'm a youth soccer coach for Bethesda soccer in the travel program. And I try to look for impact players. They may not be the, you know, they may not be the best skilled or they're not going to blow your mind in certain way, but they will impact the team in certain ways. If you're looking for the impact player at Juan Dixon, he helped them win the national championship. He was key more probably more than anyone else, I think, to help them win a national championship. But I'm going to look back at an era in the 70s. I mean, I'm looking at John Lucas. Look at what Lucas did for what kind of player he was.

and how the program, really the program was originally built in the 70s on a consistent level with Lefty. And a lot of, that was John Lucas. He was a number one draft pick coming out of college. And he had a very successful pro career despite his challenges with drug addictions. So you pick from those three, I think I may go with Lucas for that. He didn't win a national program. Things were different then because you had to win. if you recall, you couldn't, you had to win the tournament championship to get into the NCAA.

I think there were only 16 teams in the tournament. And you may recall that classic game against NC State. I think it was 74 or 75. They losing double overtime. It was for the... Yeah, 74. Yeah, 103 to 100 in overtime. Yeah, ACC championship.

And I'll never forget that game. I watched it. I mean, I love watching Maryland on TV, and they were on TV a lot. I'll never forget watching that game. Brad Davis, John Lucas, Len Elmore, Tom McMillan. What a team. Mo Howard, Lucas, I think. Mo Howard. Lucas is among the top.

So I'm going with Dixon for impact, bias, for individual just wow. And Lucas for, you know, he's up there. Yeah. Those three. It's funny. I was thinking as you're talking, I've gotten to know Mark a little bit. And he asked me last summer, we were somewhere and there were a bunch of Maryland guys running.

all right, Sheehan, give me, where is, does Anthony Cowan, does Cowan make, you know, the list, the rafters? And I said, look, he's a great four-year player, but Anthony's not in the top 10. And he said, give me your, you know, give me your top 10. But I'm not going to sit here and bore everybody with the top 10. But I basically said, look, bias was one. Wands are all-time winner. He's the best clutch player in Maryland history. He's the best winner. He was a, he was a treasure, you know, for us. But bias was a higher-level individual player in all-time. kind of combination of athleticism, skill, ferocity, you know, all wrapped up into one. He was an unstoppable force.

I mean, he was truly uncheckable from late in his sophomore year until the end of his career there. But number three to me, and it gets debated, but it's like to me, it's not even close. John Lucas is number three for me, and then we can start debating on the rest of the list. And there's a lot of debates. You know, where's Buck? Where's McMillan? Where's Albert King? you know, where's Vasquez, you know, all of those guys. But to me, I think we've hit on the three,

whatever order you want to put him in, it's fine. But, you know, Lucas wasn't just the best guard in the country. Lucas was an all-American tennis player. You know, when tennis actually was popular in this country, he's one of the all-time great athletes to ever play at the university. And look, you and I both know this because we've, we're old enough to remember. But lefties, best teams, you know, didn't get to the tournament. And if that's right, you know, they were the second or third best team in the country in 74. And in 75, they got to the elite eight, but the best teams, the 74 team in particular, didn't have a chance. And God knows what would have happened had Moses actually played a game. You know, when you, oh yeah, when you, the story in itself. Yeah, when you talk to lefty,

we did this thing, Dave, with lefty. I've told this story many times, but lefty, we had this series called Lunch with a Legend and we would run out Ruth Chris, actually Mortons, I'm sorry, downtown Connecticut Avenue. And we did everybody, the legends of this town, you know, Gary Williams, Joe Gibbs, everybody did it. And I'd been trying to get Lefty forever. And of course, Lefty wanted to get paid. And I finally said, Lefty, do you want me to drive my station wagon down and park it in front of your house like you did with Moses? And so he laughed and he finally said, all right, I'll do it. I'll do it. Good play. Yeah, that worked by that. But we did have to pay for his travel and his hotel and give him a little bit of cash.

To make a long story short, the program started at noon, but he was required to be there at 1130 because we had a sold-out house. And, you know, he was going to be a meet and greet and he was going to sign some things. And at 1129 a.m., I look at my phone, and it's Lefty cell phone. I pick it up. Kevin is Lefty. What's up, Lefty? You hear? no man look I'm going to need more money to do this thing and I said lefty are you are you kidding me and he just said no man I'm on the elevator coming coming up I got you though didn't I and he gets up the elevator and he is laughing hysterically he goes I got you and I said look after

talking to you over the last couple of months I believed it and he just laughed he couldn't have been better in the stories he told for two hours were unbelievable stories. It was a great storyteller. One of the best. When was that, Kevin? When did you do that? We did Lefty probably three, four years ago, probably.

Tommy and I did it. Leverro and I did it. We did like 20 of these. And Lefty was like, Lefty and Sugar Ray Leonard, were the last two we hadn't gotten in terms of BC sports legends. And Lefty was the hardest sell. and I must have pitched him for a year and a half. And, you know, in the early, he said, did you pay Gary?

And I said, no, we didn't pay Gary. Did you pay John Thompson? No, we didn't pay him. He goes, well, that's because they live there. He said, you're going to have to pay me to get me up from Virginia Beach. You know, I don't know. But anyway, we can tell lefty stories forever. I do want to get to your project.

And I want you to talk about, you know, everything you're doing. The Born Ready book was awesome on Biden. and you're going to update that. But tell everybody about the 34 plus one campaign, which is going to turn into a podcast series, et cetera. Well, it started last summer when I realized next year was going to be 35 years, and then the number and sort of it all, their synergy was there.

We started last summer actually working with University of Maryland interns to produce a sizzle reel or a sample reel of what the documentary would look like. And we have that on the site, and the site is gogradymedia.com. That's named my company, GoGrady Media. And there's a story behind that, which maybe we'll get to from my Maryland days. So we produced this as a reel, and we started shopping it around,

and we got interest from Octagon Entertainment. I know some people at Octagon, and they connect us to the entertainment division, and now it's evolved to where it's going to be a podcast series. And we want to use that podcast series to generally. generate interest in a possible documentary with Oxygen Entertainment. The documentary would focus on at this point the element of social change that Lens Legacy created. Those familiar with his story know that in large part, the main reason because of his death,

Congress in 1986 passed the 81986 Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which really changed the way you sentenced cocaine criminals. And we were skewed it to where tens of thousands of young black men started going to prison for crack and crack cocaine and powder cocaine, primarily crack cocaine, crimes. And it lasted for decades, it's overcrowded prisons. That's the social change aspect of this. I feel, and you may too, Kevin, especially if you read the book, his legacy is very so vast. It's not just the impact on federal drug legislation. It's also how it impacted the Celtics, how it impacted Maryland athletics,

how it impacted his friends and family, coaches. I was an athlete at Maryland in the late 70s. I was a track team captain, and I played soccer for a part of a year. So I knew people in the athletic department how it affected them, specifically Dick Dole, who was an assistant coach on the team, track team and I was that we loved Dick. Everybody loved Dick. And I saw what it did to him personally.

I saw what it did to others personally in the athletic department. So that was the interest in writing the book. It's evolved to where we're now with a podcast series. We're updating the book tied into 35 years plus. And I think the most important part of this thing is all this has evolved since the book came out in 2011. I started, I've sold the book. I've sold the book at lots of youth tournaments. And I set up a table and it does really well.

And people will come up. So this is, you know, it's a great story. and it's in, but what are you going to do with it? How can you teach people from it? And it made me start thinking. So I started speaking to teenagers and young adults at rec centers at schools and about how to become an effective decision maker. Not just a good decision maker, but an effective decision maker.

There's a group that's working with us called the Decision Education Foundation, which establishes curriculums for students and really anybody on how to make effective decisions. So the last segment of this podcast series will be on how to make effective decisions. So we want to take all of this, the 34 plus one project, and stress effective decision-making for teenagers and young adults, using Lenn story as a tool to attract their attention. You and I know the story. You and I lived it. You went to Maryland when he was there. We understand it.

A lot of people know who Lenn bias is. They don't know what he was. They heard he died or he was a good basketball. player, but there's, as you know, there's so much more to it. So we're trying to add to all that. You can find out much more about what Dave and his group are working on, as he mentioned, by going to gogradiamedia.com. You know, I think that the part of his legacy that you described briefly, that is so amazing. And I think it came from a good spot, you know, in 1986 with, you know, the drug epidemic and the cocaine epidemic and the crack cocaine epidemic of the 80s,

you know, with the president of the time Ronald Reagan and his wife, Nancy, you know, just say no, that there was a real yearning in this country. And it crossed, I think, all political, you know, lines. I mean, everybody wanted more and stricter, you know, laws when it came to drugs. We had people dying in our streets. We had crime that had increased to ridiculous levels. But it really went overboard, didn't it? In a big way. And my main job is as a public school teacher, I teach social sciences. And one of my classes is government and politics.

And while working on the story, I understood the political part of that. But now, having taught government and politics more, I really have a much better understanding about this. the I'd like to think that the motivations by the politicians were were more altruistic or you know let's help people but it was for self-preservation as politics often is the Democrats wanted to maintain their their majority in the Senate and the House and Tip O'Neill who was the speaker at the time and a Celtics fan by the way he saw the advantage of pushing some legislation through quickly after biases death to deal with this drug crisis as it was called at the time. It was a crisis. It was a problem. Sure. Cocaine was, I don't, you know, Kevin, I imagine you had a strong

social attitude at that time. There was a lot going on in college park in the mid-80s, trust me. Boy, we, um, I'd go to parties and, you know, there'd be beer and there'd be cocaine. The cocaine was just, you know, a keg of beer, you'd have, you know, people over

there were just cocaine in front of them, snow. It was, it was recreational. That's the attitude that. Right. And Lenz death changed that. And Congress, the Democrats, tried to take advantage of that. And they rushed through this bill that would address in the book. And without much review before the committees. And it was, this was legislation that was passed within two months of when it started. And that doesn't happen often. And this is why this is, I think, is potentially the most impactful part of his legacy. It still exists today. That issue was still impactful today. Jay Billis is on our Cisero. We interviewed for him. Don Marcus is working with me on the former Baltimore Sun reporter. He's working with us on this.

And he interviewed Jay. And Jay has a sideboard on our Cissel reel. Please go see it if you haven't or anyone who's listening. And he said that's the part of the story that needs to be told more. It's his sound bite. And you can see in his face, there's anguish about, you know, Jay's, he was an attorney. He's got legal training. He knows this part of the story.

and he says that is the most, that's the part of the story that needs to be told more. So that's why it's important for us to even focus on that as we go to documentary, right, if we still stay with that focus, but that's the interest now. Yeah, and you know, the other part of this, and it was the Cleveland Brown safety, Don Rogers. Correct. Don Rogers was an NFL safety for the Cleveland Browns, and within a month or two after Bias' death, he died of a cocaine overdose. So it was those two deaths, bias is being the most significant.

Because remember, too, the physical features, bias was such a physical specimen. Like people looked at him and said, how can anything kill this guy? You know, and he was so great, he was such a magnificent athlete that it really hit hard. And not to mention the fact that it was within hours after he had been drafted and had been, you know, in Boston. But, you know, for those that don't know that part of the Lenn-Bias story, you know, it was major legislation that really led to mandatory minimum sentences increasing significantly for drug-related crimes, which ultimately put many more, you know, minorities in particular and those of less means into jail for much longer periods of time than they had been doing before. but am I wrong about this? It was not an unpopular legislation

in 1980s. Sure, yeah. And again, it was, it's the political, it's self-preservation that the Democrats were trying to take advantage of. Right. And to be a little more clear on what that that law addressed,

it addressed many things, but most significantly, 100 to one disparity between crack and powder cocaine. If you had five grams of powder cocaine, you got a mandatory minimum of five years in prison. If you had 100 grams of crack cocaine, I'm sorry, it's the reverse.

Five grams of crack, 100 grams of powder. Same mandatory minimum sentence five years. Who was using crack? The young black men, young black adults, males. And it's skewed against them, and it's really created a problem with our prisons

and sentencing reform. So it's still an issue that exists today. By the way, one last thing. And again, go to gogradymedia.com to find out more about what Dave and his group are working on. It's fascinating. But somebody, I was playing golf a few days ago, and somebody said to me, you know, Len Bias's death still impacts the program today. And I said, I don't think so.

I think that ship sailed a long time ago. We were talking about recruiting. And he said, no, no, no, you're missing my point. He goes, if Len Byes were alive today and if he had had the NBA career that we thought he was going to have, and if he had become like this all-time NBA icon, like Jordan became as an example, you know, North Carolina's never needed Jordan to be a recruiter for North Carolina. North Carolina recruits on name alone, but imagine the recruiter that Len Byest would have been for anybody coaching at Maryland. And I thought about that.

I think actually that's a really good point. you know, had he lived, and we're talking now more about sort of the basketball side of it, had he lived the ambassador that he would have been for the university, and, you know, the way, if he had had a similar NBA career to his college career, and he had been, you know, a human highlight reel like Dominique Wilkins was, like Jordan was, and he had been, you know, even years after his NBA career ended, had been a player that young players continued to look up to, it really would have been, I think, impactful to recruiting.

It could have been very significant. And that's something with that. And Gary Williams talks about how recruiting was so difficult for him after he came in because he would start recruiting athletes. Hey, this is a school where Len Byest, I don't want to go there. So this one for years. And Gary will talk about that. If I can add one thing, Kevin, before we end this, something that's timely.

we started something called the Lend bias fandom promotion. It starts actually April 1st, but we're starting to promote on our social media platforms. We're asking people to submit their most fond memories and reflections of Lend, good and bad. You know, it affected, it hurt lives, it saved lives to be candid. So if you go to our, there's gogradimediamedia.com slash fandom, all the information's there.

We're going to pick the best submissions and there will be prizes. This will build all the way up to June 19th. So we're going to pick the top 10 and then we'll pick a finalist and then we're going to have fun with it. Just so we can, this will help everybody, again, grasp and understand his full legacy

because it's not just these great stories about his athleticism and as a basketball player, but these sober and somber reflections and stories about how is death-effective things. So we started that this week and that'll be going through June 19th. June 19, 1986 was one of the worst days. I'll never forget.

It was one of those for many of us. It was one of those, you knew where you were when you heard the news. But I love what you're doing. And when you have the results come back, I mean, from his jumper to beat UT Chattanooga in the tournament as a freshman, to the game he had against Duke in the ACC finals the year later. But, you know, number one, I can tell you right now what number one's going to be.

It's going to be the Carolina game in Chapel Hill, where he went, you know, for an incredible 35 and rebounds in the block shot on Kenny Smith's drive and overtime, et cetera. That's going to be number one, although I'll tell you what, there were games that he played his final game at Cole against Virginia. Olden Pollynees put up a shot, and I was very close to the floor. and you heard Leonard go up and snag it midair and say, get that shit out of here. And he threw it into the fourth row. And he had such a great game against UVA. You know, his final game against UNLV was a brilliant basketball game. And it's just a shame.

It was a great game to watch. Great game to watch. He just took it over. Took it over. And they had an eight-point lead and somehow they blew it. I don't know. I still to this day, that was almost as devastating a loss as Gravis' final game against Michigan State was.

Well, also in that first half against you, Lenn really was chunking it. He was not, he was missing shots. He was playing well, but this is the kind of player he was. He knew, and he didn't have, for some reason, his teammates were not helping him out too much in that game. He just, he felt he had to take it upon himself. Those last 10 minutes are great to watch to see what kind of player he was.

He took it upon himself. He was fighting it. He put his head down, okay, I'm going to see what I can do to save this team. That's the kind of player he was. One other thing I like to say about, fandom and you talk about these great moments that people know about we already had somebody sent something in last night a gentleman who actually said he was recruiting lend to be his agent and he got out of after lend die he stopped being an agent he was so upset and went into

become a successful businessman but he said he would go to maryland practice and he told a story about how at the end of practice lefty would get all the players at uh shooting foul shots and you know one player would shoot everybody else will be around them and yelling and screaming at them simulating a loud crowd so they can focus. And he said, when Len was up there, he's with everybody yelling at it, and after you make one, everybody gets closer, you make another, you get closer and louder.

Len, he remembers Len making 38 in a row in that environment. That's the kind of stuff I want to hear. That's great stuff. That is great stuff. We'll get a lot more of that, and Kevin will be happy to share that as we go down the road with that. I would love to. And, you know, back then, and I was in school then,

you could walk right into Cole in the middle of practice and sit right in Cole and watch practice. And, you know, Lefty would walk out of that office up on that concourse level, and you'd hear that booming voice. And Lefty, people don't realize this that don't know. Lefty was 6'6. Like, he was an imposing figure, not to mention the charisma, but those were the days.

I wish you the best of luck indefinitely on the fandom thing. Come back and we'll talk about it down the road. Appreciate your support. Yep. Dave and Grady, everybody. Again, go Gradyamedia.com. That's it for the day. back tomorrow with Cooley.