The Kevin Sheehan Show - Somebody Wanted Sam Howell Here + Doc and Daron Payne

Episode Date: January 16, 2025

Kevin today addressed the notion that Ben Johnson became disinterested in the Washington job last year when he learned that Adam Peters would be drafting a quarterback instead of keeping Sam Howell. Kevin discussed Bobby Wagner missing a 2nd day of practice with an ankle injury and Joe Whitt Jr.'s comments about Marshon Lattimore's performance in Tampa. Doc Walker jumped on to preview the playoff game Saturday night against the Lions. Commanders' DT Daron Payne was a guest on the show as well.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Windo Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com if you need new windows. Doc's going to be on the show with me.

He'll be with me in the next segment. Final segment of the show today, Duran Payne. Duran called in after practice, so you'll hear that conversation in the final segment. of this show. This from my guy, Seth and Potomac, to start the show. Seth writes, is it true that Ben Johnson told Adam Peters that he wanted Sam Howell as his quarterback? And when he was told that we were going to draft a quarterback, that's when he canceled

the interview. By the way, Sabah sent me something about this as well. Maybe some of you have heard this. Sabah sent me a link to a podcast that I've never heard of called U.S. Bet, Rio Rambling with Rio, something like that. But it's a U.S. Bet podcast. I've never heard that before. Never have I heard that before. Remember, they were on their way.

It was the day after the NFC title game when the Lions lost to the 49ers. They were on their way for the in-person interview with Ben Johnson. I think they were also scheduled to interview in-person, Aaron Glenn, right, on the same day. And eventually they turned the plane around because Ben Johnson said he wasn't interested in having the interview. Remember, there was that report that came out that Ben Johnson didn't want to work for basketball guys. Magic Johnson, Bob Myers. Remember, they were part of the search committee. But look, it's possible it's true.

I've never heard anything remotely resembling that. Ben Johnson wanting Sam Howell to be the quarterback versus having the number two pick in the draft and his choice of potentially two or three big-time quarterbacks, Daniels, Drake May, J.J. McCarthy, etc. Knowing that Caleb Williams was going to go number one. I have a hard time believing that. I'm not saying that it's not true. Anything could be possible.

But I have a hard time believing that, number one, Ben Johnson wanted Sam Howell to be his quarterback versus taking a quarterback at number two. And remember, Ben Johnson didn't take any job last offseason. The reports were that ultimately Ben Johnson didn't really want to become a head coach last coaching cycle in early 2020. for. The only thing I heard, and I said it at the time, I said it before Dan Quinn was hired, and I've said it since, and I'll say it forever, because I know it's true. They loved Dan Quinn from the jump. The first Zoom call interview, Harris and Peters fell in love with Dan Quinn. They were going to go through the rest of the process, but they really loved Dan Quinn. And from the jump, He was at the top or very near the top of their list.

And he was exactly what they were looking for. They were looking for a true leader and a guy that could bring in a coaching staff and build the culture that they wanted. And there was a real fit with Peters in terms of, you know, the collaboration and their aligned vision, et cetera. By the way, I think today is the one-year anniversary of the hiring. of Adam Peters. So, congrats Adam Peters on your one-year anniversary. The first year has gone quite well. But anyway, I've got a hard time believing that that's true. But thank you, Seth,

for writing it. And Sabah, thank you for sending me the information on it as well. Bobby Wagner missed a second straight day of practice with an ankle injury. He was one of two D.N.E.S. NPs today. The injury report just came out. Jordan McGee, the other. Yeah, I'm a bit concerned over his status. I would imagine he'll play, but we need him at 100%. He was their best defensive player, Sunday night in Tampa. And he set a tone for the game, and not just on the defensive side of the ball. He set a tone that this game was going to be played with effort, urgency, you know, physicality, if that's a word, loved the way Wagner played. That first tackle, that first running over Bucky Irving in Pass Pro. By the way, Baker Mayfield ended up running over Bobby Wagner

on that big 18-yard scramble. But something to keep an eye on the rest of the week. And remember, this is a condensed week. Because they play Saturday night, tomorrow, Thursday, is the last practice day of the week. Friday is their travel day. So tomorrow, if he's a DNP tomorrow, reason to be concerned. But we'll find out, really, because it'll be the last injury report update before the game on Saturday night tomorrow. I think so, although maybe with the playoffs, it's different. Maybe we'll get something on Friday as well. But tomorrow should be a big day in terms of the true reveal of Wagner's status. I'd be surprised again if he missed the game. You just want to know that he's fully healthy because for them to have any chance of even

slowing down that lion's rushing attack, they need Bobby Wagner on the field. The skins are in the final eight, man. It's still kind of hard to believe. I mean, I thought they had a chance to beat Tampa. I picked them to beat Tampa. But still, they're here. They're in the divisional round for just the third time since 1991. They made it in 92, remember as the defending champs. They lost to the 49ers at Candlestick in the mud. You know, that game was always and has been always one of my favorites because it featured the true championship. medal. You know, a championship team on the ropes that showed that championship heart like you read about. I mean, they had struggled during the regular season. They backdoored their way into the

postseason. And as kind of a wounded, bloodied, you know, championship warrior, they came out when that postseason, you know, began swinging. They knocked out Minnesota on the road as an underdog. And then they went to Candlestick to face the number one-seeded 49ers. Two best teams of the 80s, the two best teams of the last decade going into that season. It was their third playoff encounter. Washington had beaten San Francisco in the 83-season title game at RFK and then had lost to the 49ers in the divisional round in 1990. But this was a game, man. If you ever have a moment, moment to go check it out on YouTube. It's Madden, Summerall, 49ers, Redskins, the two best teams of the last decade, battling it out in a divisional round. Washington's the defending champ. The 49ers

were the best regular season team. This was a Steve Young led 49ers team with Jerry Rice, etc. And the 49ers jumped out to a 17 to 3 lead, but they couldn't knock the champs out. They were down 17 to 6 in the fourth quarter, Washington was when Mark Rippin scored on a quarterback sneak. And that play, when you watch that play on the actual broadcast on YouTube, Rippin gets up and you just hear just this screech, and you hear all of the players, Jacoby, everybody that was out there yelling. They were now in the game. They were down 1713.

The tide had turned. The skins had the ball, had the momentum. They forced to three and out and got the ball back. They took over. They were on the move to take the lead when Rippin on a. handoff to Brian Mitchell. The ball slipped out of Rips' hands. It was a wet, muddy day. Brian Mitchell had a hole that was gaping. He probably scores if the handoff is made cleanly. It wasn't made cleanly. Fumble. San Francisco jumped on it, and they held on for the win.

That game was incredible. I will end the podcast today with the Rippin' quarterback sneak. You'll hear him, he jumps up, he spikes the ball, he yells out, an expletive. You hear everybody yelling. They have silenced the 49er crowd, and they are coming back and they are going to win the game. And they almost did. But they didn't. And that was it, man. That was it.

Joe Gibbs retired two months later, and the franchise never recovered. Until maybe now. Two other trips to the divisional round. 99 produced a wild card win over Detroit. Brad Johnson at quarterback, they went to Tampa for the divisional round. Brian Mitchell had a kickoff return for a touchdown in what would be his final game in D.C. The game was in Tampa, but as a skin. And there was a field goal attempt where the snap was not a good one.

And Brad Johnson had to get up. He was the holder trying to make. make a play and they never got the kick off. Brett Conway never had a chance from 53 yards out to give them the lead with about 30 seconds to go. They lost that game 14 to 13. And then they made it in 2005, you know, the last time that they had won a playoff game 19 years ago. They beat Tampa and then they lost to Seattle almost 19 years ago to the day. January 14th, 2006. That was the game in which they were up 3-0 in Seattle and Matt Hasselbeck threw an out route that went right into Carlos Rogers' his hands. He dropped it. There was nothing but green grass, green turf in front of them. They would have

had a 10-0 lead in what turned out to be kind of a defensive game. And that early cushion may have been enough to push them into the NFC title game, but he didn't hold on to the pick six and they lost the game 20 to 10. And that was the last time. They played on what many think is the best weekend of the football season, this upcoming weekend. You know, eight teams, four games, all the best teams in action because the top seeds are in action for the first time. High drama. Let's face it, wild card weekend was a dud this year. Six games and just one competitive game, our game. The other five blowouts. By the way, I did a wild card weekend shallow dive, if you will. It didn't take me that long. When they went to 14 teams in 2020, seven each conference, and we got six games this wild card weekend, this past wild card weekend.

It hasn't worked out in terms of the games themselves. You know, you don't have the top seeds playing. You don't have the number one seed in each conference playing. And you end up sometimes with some duds, two-thirds of the games. There have been 30 of them. Two-thirds of them have been double-digit victories. And really, there are only two memorable games. The one Sunday night in Tampa that Washington won. And Jacksonville, if you recall, they were down 27 to nothing. And they came back and beat the Chargers 31 to 30 two years ago.

But, yeah, Washington with their first chance in 19 years to play in this round. And if they win, they would play in the NFC championship game for the first time since the 91 team beat Detroit 33 years ago. During this championship game, drought, every other NFC team has played in the title game. Detroit played in it last year. They had had the same drought as Washington, but they broke that drought. last year. In fact, every other team in the NFC, other than the Lions, has played in the NFC title game at least two times since Washington played in their last one. Many of you, probably most of you, out there listening, like me, would have laughed out loud if anyone

suggested that when they beat the Lions in January of 19th, 92, 33 years ago, that that would be it. No more. No more NFC championship games for you. It won't happen until at least the year 2025. We would have bet against it. We would have bet everything we had against that and we would have lost big. Today at the park, I wanted to mention a couple of the quotes from the coordinators, because today, again, with the show, short week. Today was coordinator day. Joe Witt Jr. talked, and so did Cliff Kingsbury. I'll start with something that Joe Witt Jr. was asked about. He was asked about Marshawn Latimore's performance against Tampa Bay. I'm going to read you the quote.

Quote, I felt that it might be a little bit difficult from the standpoint that he got one real day of fast practice, fast practice, and we asked him to go out there. Same thing we asked him last time to go out against A.J. Brown, and then we asked him to go out there against Mike Evans. But that comes with the territory of being who he is. And when you go out there and you fight on the outside lanes, you're going to win some, you're going to lose some. I have full confidence that he's going to win because he's getting the reps now every day and he's going to knock all that rust off. So it wasn't the performance that any of us wanted, but I have full confidence in the young man that he's going to get it done. Nobody, nobody has said, oh, by the way, you guys don't

know what you're watching. Marshawn Latimore was fine. Everybody understands that he struggled. You know, his PFF score was one of the lowest you'll see for a corner. It was the lowest rated player in the game on Sunday night, Latimore was. He was asked a follow-up question. He was asked a follow-up question. He said, on the Detroit receiving core, if it'll be easier just to leave Latimore on one side of the field, and Joe Witt Jr. wasn't falling for that. He said, yeah, you know that's not a question I'm going to answer. Meantime, Cliff Kingsbury, a couple of things that I just pulled that I want to read to you. He was asked about staying disciplined with the run game when it's not working. I thought this was really interesting. He said, it's helped me having a defensive head coach, because I can tell you

that much, he said, I can tell you that much because he lets it be known when we need to run the football at times that maybe in my previous life, I would have been airing it out, which by the way isn't really true. It's nice of him to say that, but he ran the ball a lot at Arizona. You know, he was not an air raid head coach in Arizona in the pros. But he continued. He says, but we're going to do whatever it takes to win, and we have good backs, and we've had a great scheme throughout the year. By the way, they're the number three rush offense in the NFL. It's been recent, though, that they have not run the football with running backs. Continuing with the answer, he said, we faced some good fronts.

I mean, those two guys inside there are as good as anybody we played against all year, talking about Tampa. and their linebackers are tremendous players. So it was a challenge. And Todd Bowles is one of the best defensive minds in the league. He's been doing this a long time. So overall, it was a challenge, and we just kept plugging away at it, and Jaden made some plays with his feet that helped us out. But really, having Dan Quinn just mentoring me,

mentoring me in a way, if you will, about sticking with the run game, how it affects the defense, seeing it from that perspective. has been good for me. Tampa's been a really good run-stopping team. And yeah, Vita Veya and Kansi and all the others, they are good and they had some good linebacker playing the game. And by the way, they were walking down a safety to try to stop the read option game at times or they were using their defensive end to do that. They were kind of loading the box. But Washington did fine. You know, you have to move the football in the game you're in, whatever way you can do it. I am never and have never been, you got to run the football. You got to be

balanced. No, you have to score. You have to move the football and score. And they didn't punt in the game. They scored on five of their seven drives. It was a very successful offensive night. He was asked about Daniel's development and hitting windows passing the ball on third and fourth down. He said that was something that I thought jumped dramatically from his junior to senior year at LSU. And that was one of the things that blew me away the most was his progression in the pocket. I thought junior year he was okay, but he'd get out and use his legs a lot more. The second year, he progressed through getting to the third, fourth, finding his checkdown, and that's something that just uses the virtual reality stuff constantly.

And I think that really has helped him just hanging in the pocket and nailing those reeds and going through it like he does. By the way, the question wasn't about third and fourth down. It was about getting to the third and fourth reads. Yeah. But remember, in the opener against Tampa, he was. running like he was in his junior year at LSU. The other night, he was moving around and moving towards the line of scrimmage and

sucking up defenders and then throwing the ball downfield. That's still right up there with my favorite play in the game, the 21-yarder to the 30-yarder to Diami Brown when he extended the play up the A-gap in the pocket. What else did I have? I thought the Marshawn Lattimore stuff from Joe Witt Jr. and kind of the run game stuff. Tampa was very good against the run. You know, sometimes the other team is just really good. Dallas's front that got healthier really beginning with the Washington game, that was a challenge.

You know, what shouldn't have been as much of a challenge is Atlanta against the run. And actually, Washington had success against the Falcons running the football. I thought they were going to struggle against Tennessee. They had one of their best games rushing the football against the Titans. They rushed for 267 against the Titans, and Brian Robinson, Jr. went for over 100 yards. But the two cowboy games, the Steeler game in terms of rushing the football, was a real challenge. and the New Orleans game was a challenge rushing the football. The Saints, in that particular game, Brian Robinson Jr. was 21 for 65, 3.1 yards per carry.

They rushed for a buck 37, but Jaden was their leading rusher in that game. Okay. Let's get to Doc. We'll do that. Let me just ask, as I do every once in a while, that if you get a chance to rate and review the show, especially on Apple and Spotify, it's a big deal for us. And following us, hitting that plus button or follow button on Spotify or Apple really helps us out a lot. All right, Doc, next, after these words from a few of our sponsors. I want to welcome a new sponsor to the podcast, and that sponsor is Rocket Money. And, guys, this is interesting. So listen carefully, because we've actually talked about,

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saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com slash Kevin DC today. That's RocketMoney.com slash Kevin D.C. RocketMoney.com slash Kevin D.C. Hey guys, prize picks is the place to go to for daily fantasy sports. I have the prize picks app. I'm one of the over 10 million members at prize picks where billions of dollars are awarded in winnings. Prize picks has made Daily Fantasy Sports accessible to everybody. You just pick more or less on at least two players and their projected stats for a shot to win up to a thousand times your cash. Run your game all season long on PrizePix, America's number one Daily Fantasy Sports app.

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That's org, g-a-in.com slash shean. Use my code, Sheen. This segment of the show is brought to you by my good friends at MyBooky. If you want to bet Washington and Detroit or any of the divisional round games, my recommendation is go to MyBooky.ag and use my promo code, Kevin D.C. First things first, if it's a new customer, if this is your initial deposit at MyBooky, they'll give you a 50% cash bonus. So if you deposit $100, you'll have $150 in your account.

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Passing touchdowns, one and a half. The favorite to score the first touchdown in the game is Jemir Gibbs at plus 210. Then there are four other Detroit players listed before Terry McClure and Jaden Daniels are listed at plus 880. So if you wanted to take a flyer on the player to score the first touchdown in the game and you think it's Terry or Jaden, you put $10 on either one of them. And if either one of them scores the first touchdown of the game, you win $88. $100 bucks pays $8.80. Anyway, they've got so many prop bets up. The point spreads come down a half point.

Currently, Detroit minus nine and a half. total is still at 55 in the game. That's the highest total on the board. Washington plus 400 on the money lines. So if you like them to win the game outright, $10 pays $400, it's a $4 to 1 shot on Washington to win the game right now. MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin, D.C. All right, let's welcome on my good friend, Richard Doc Walker. Doc's podcast is patreon.com slash Doc Walker. Doc is a part of the postgame show following the games on the Team 980 and 1067 The Fan. So after the game on Saturday night, tune in to the Team 980 to hear Doc's reaction, first reaction to the game.

I want to read something to you real quickly before we begin. comes from Jerry. Jerry writes, Kevin, I love when Doc is on the show. Please have them on more. Also, have you ever been on Doc's podcast? I really enjoy his pod as well. Thank you, Jerry, very much. No, I haven't been on Doc's podcast. I've never been invited to go on Doc's podcast, but that's neither here nor there. I am thrilled and honored to have them back on this podcast. How you doing?

Everything well? Well, it's always a pleasure. Even though you bring me on pretty much to mock me and to make fun of me, I'm your entertainment fact, which is cool. You are entertaining. Just being on with you.

No, but it's not in a not in a sports journalistic fashion. This is a highly respectful environment. To make fun of me. But that's okay. You know what? Every show needs an entertainment value. And we don't have guests.

We can't afford to have guests on my podcast. We are a training real for canines. And so we don't have guests. On the show that I'm on the weekends, I've had you all doing the golf season. come on because you play golf. But on the off season, the winner, you've come on. So that's all I can do.

I've changed my tea time to come on with you. I've changed my tea times in the past to come on with you. We have no budget. So I'm doing the best I can. All right. No one wants to hear that because our team's in the playoffs. So we don't have to do this for a long period of time because we actually have real things to talk about.

But before we get to football, I do want to just check with you to see how friends, family members, et cetera, are doing out in California. You know that my oldest... You got family here. I do. So how's everybody doing? Big C.

Good. They're not in that, in harm's way. You breathe in the air, which you're accustomed to if you're out there. Frank Dynamite Stevens. My man, there is San Antonio and his family. Everybody, you can't say fine. They're alert, on alert. The firefighters, first responders. what a great show of courage and grit.

I mean, that area has come together, the Rams. You couldn't help but pull for them. And I think the Phoenix Cardinals' organizations, which hasn't always been the most revered group. I gave them a fun bunch, high-five, man. They put up, they covered Rams back. They, that was a humanitarian effort beyond to make them feel at home.

And then ultimately, I think, was one of the reasons they just destroyed Minnesota. Yeah. Yeah, they certainly felt, it certainly felt like they were playing more for more, excuse me, than just themselves. Yeah. I mean, when you were growing up in Southern California, did you have, do you remember wildfires being an issue? Obviously, earthquakes you had. More earthquakes, but fires, yes, and the winds. You do think of it.

And the thing about it is so canalizing, because if you saw where some of these homes are built, the views are breathtaking. And, you know, there's nobody there on food stamps. So you've got to be able to afford these breathtaking views and homes and pools. And so they go, And it's not, I mean, it's, it's sad that people that have the kind of jewels and antiques and artwork. And one can just imagine.

And it's all gone and in flames. And I just, it's really, it's pretty, on any level, I don't care where you are, your trailer park burns out. It's tragic. But this, and it happens with such frequency, and they'll rebuild, and they'll go right back. every time. Yeah. Really tragic.

And, you know, for you, I mean, I know how you react to situations here in the East Coast that are not anywhere near the same as what they're going through now. But, you know, do you remember an earthquake that, you know, was frightening growing up in that area? Was there a big earthquake at any point in your youth? Yeah, knocked out of bed on. the only one I really remember the bid, he had knocked out of bed. Not a bunk bed, single bid, you know, and just a regular, I'll say, twin-sized bed.

And, yeah, that was, my grandmother was, she'd be out with me doing this school year. And summer she'd be in New York with my cousin. And I remember that. Because, you know, you think about it, but then you don't, I would think it's the same way for people in the Midwest. I don't think they walk around thinking about hurricanes all the time. Tornadoes, yeah.

Or tornadoes. I don't think they. But you know it's coming and then what are you going to do? Run? Run where? I mean, that's the thing about it. It's amazing. But I just remember that being shaken out of a bit,

but that kind of movement. And they go through drills. You know, they have all these getting the doorway that you go through training in elementary school, that's normal things that you train for. And other than that, you just live with it. Well, I mean, you've been on the East Coast forever now, but you have a regimen in preparing for the worst. And it's been cold and snowy around here,

and if it's ever really bad, no one's more prepared than Doc with what he has in the trunk of his vehicle. I mean, he's got a survival kit in that trunk, and he's prepared for it. So do you. And so do you. Don't say it like I don't. I'm the only person. So do you?

No, I don't have what you have. You put it together in September. It's an effort. It's a holiday for you in September and putting together the blankets and the burners and the canned food and the water and everything else. Perishable. Perishable. I shared it with the young lady at Starbucks two days ago. and she's from Ukraine.

And we were talking. I said, you know, do you have your kid? Are you prepared? She looked at me. Strange. So I explained it to her. She says, thank you. I didn't know.

I said, well, now you help someone else. Make sure they have these essentials. It's funny to you You're going to start one of those email chains where it's like Here's how you prepare for a winter storm Please share this with 10 other people Praise God

Because I said now It's not that you Somebody gets some ice They hit you Now you're in a gutter People having a time get to you Now you've got a change You've got backup socks

You've got a You have prepared to be without heat for 12 hours or so. And you got a game plan. But you... I said, who would... She was like, sir, unlike you, who is a joke to, she, sir, I felt like a citizen that had done what my deed for that day.

You know, do something you can do, help somebody every day. Help somebody get better every day. And I did that. And I thought of you, I said, now he'll laugh at this, because he makes a joke. joke to him. Not even close to a joke to me. Nobody's a joke to me that spends as much time as you do, your free time helping others better themselves. Nobody wants to hear this. Let's get to football, because we've got a team that's getting ready for a second round playoff game. But before we get to the specifics of the game and what you think will happen, you played this time of year. You played

this time of year, a lot in your career. What do you remember about that very first playoff game that you played in against the Lions at RFK? That every play could be your last play and that you don't want to be the weak link in the chain because it might be your last game of the season. So winner takes all You fight for another chance to play again Otherwise your season's over

And all that fun And we had a lot of fun with the teams You have a likable team Like these guys have And like we had You don't want it to end It's frightening To think that the season could be over

If we don't win And then at that madhouse The energy that was coming up that building and that place and that parking lot and that stands moving, it literally is out of my experience that you don't want to be the guy to F that up. It's an enormous pressure to get out on the scoreboard first because you don't want to be trailing. You want to be leading. And, you know, what started that very first game was Jarris White picked off the pass and took it 70-something yards for a touchdown. It was seven to nine.

nothing, and it was off to the races. You know, something because I know a lot about your career, and we're not going to talk about college or high school, anything like that. Thank God. But you never played because that era of those first few Super Bowl contending teams and Super Bowl winning teams, you guys played all of your playoff games at home. You didn't play on the road in the playoffs in your career. You didn't have other than the neutral site to Super Bowls in.

Pasadena and in Tampa. Washington, obviously, on the road Sunday night in Tampa. They'll be on the road Saturday night in Detroit. You've certainly been with teams, you know, as a broadcaster, et cetera, that have been on the road, some of the teams that went to Chicago. You were working for George Michael at the time when they won playoff games on the road. How hard is that to just walk into, you know, a true lion's den, no pun intended with the opponent on Saturday night? and win a playoff game on the road? Well, it's very difficult if you don't score first. The key to playing on the road is that you don't want to do anything to ignite their excitement.

If they earn it, they make a big play, no problem. But if you drop a pass or you miss an interception, you do anything that ignites it, then it just can be overwhelming. This is quiet as it becomes if you pick a pass off or you score first, that gives you, that equals a playing field. Home field advantage, the only way you equalize it is to score first. And then you get things to even. You don't get ahead, but it's not at least even.

And that's the way it's going to be. And that's why, like, with JD5, and then you've got to have, you're not in this game, Kevin, without a freak or two on your side. Everybody has one, or you can't get in this. And the question is, what position does he play? And if his quarterback, then that, you're doubling down. Now, in this case, their case, first picking a draft, they got two backs that are freaks. They've got two.

They are low. That's why they're the number one seed. So you have to minimize their explosiveness early and then make them start to doubt themselves. just like they did Minnesota that was hot as a firecracker when they came in there and then they start demoralizing you when they take you off course.

But what you said when you've got guys who are built for this and they appear to have one at quarterback, the most important position on the field, you got a legit shot. I mean, when you went into playoff games, you had Joe T, you had Rigo, obviously. You had other players as well, but in terms of the leadership, what do you?

Joe Washington. Joe Washington. Yeah. What about how they're feeling, even though he's only 23 years old and he's a rookie? What's the rest of the locker room thinking about going into these playoff games with number five? You don't want to be the guy that denies him a chance to do his thing. it's like for us with Mosley. All we have to do was we got to get close.

To not deny him a chance to get in range, that's our fault. Get him in range, he's the MVP. When you have a guy that's throwing aces, you got to put him in position so he can do what he does. I mean, Steph Curry, he may have court shots, but you prefer him just being in a sweet spot. And it's their job to get in the ball. And that's when you play with a guy like that, like JR.

I mean, with Jari, it could be from anywhere, but you know if it's close in, it's pretty much over. You can't even imagine him being stopped. Like, you don't even imagine that. There are not a lot of them, but when you have one on your, and we've been so long for us going through this, and it's amazing when he's a quarterback, the freaky thing is that even you,

and you're one of the best in the way, whirl at what you do off air. You couldn't have predicted six come from behind last second possession victories. Even you didn't predict that. No. Yeah, he's a freak. He really is.

I mean, it's been so long. And I actually, I had somebody, I had somebody email me something today and I read it on radio. And it was basically, saying, do you think we're overreacting to this

kid? That we're building them up too big because we're so close to it. What do you say to that? No, you haven't even seen the best is yet to come. You don't do something. If you did it once, okay. Twice,

maybe. Six? No. It's like AI. He's one of those guys. It's like bird. He's making shots that you go, Curry. He's doing things you go, well, nobody else is doing that. Not with the consistency. He's not giving you a one-shot deal.

He's doing it on demand. You can't make this up. On demand. So if I'm on his team, all I want to do is make sure he gets a chance to do it again and again. And again, by putting him in that position. And if they get better, he'll have

more opportunities. You and I have talked about this so many times over the years, just those guys that have that killer, you know, be Mitch, for sure, but Kobe and Mike. And it looks like he has it, but he does it in such a poised kind of casual way, but you see the killer in this dude, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. And dudes like that, if you get a chance to play with him like Johnny Shire in college, our quarterback, you know, Jeff Dankwell was Kodak All-American, not everybody gets a chance to breathe in that airspace. And so you start watching how those guys carry themselves.

He's got all the traits. He does it at a very young age, but that's because of the path he's traveled. You know, can you imagine the pressure he was under to have left Arizona State? First of all, it starts a freshman. Right. To be playing for a guy who's coach, head coach, an NFL team as a freshman. And we just bypass that. We act like that's normal.

I know how excited we were to have Dick Vermil, the head coach, and he'd been a special teams coach with the Rams. Right. Suppose he has been the head. And I'm just, we just act like this is normal. It's not. Yeah. then he goes to LSU and the Big Bad SEC

and he toys with him he made a mockery of it wins the Heisman and again and he's not the first player taken that's another thing with humility and he's not the number one guy taken but he's the number one guy

this year he dropped the mic and he's not done and that's the part where I'm going and he resurrected this program, which was totally in the trash. And he's not a jerk. You know, he didn't wake up in the middle of the night and check how many likes he has.

That's the best thing about him. Yeah. Is that the best is yet to come. Yeah. He is, at this point, knock on wood. And I know this is probably, you know, an old man, get off my lawn take. But he's not worried about going viral with something. that he says or something that he wears

to a press conference. And that is, that's refreshing for a superstar in this day and age. Most guys have so little self-esteem for themselves. You can always tell the guys

that really felt like they're the ugly duckling. The moment they get a little, they never stop putting it. Every time you look up, you see them their cheeses somewhere. Dude, relax. Act like you've been famous before or act like people have known you before they can't. And they never grow out of it.

You think, oh, it's just a rookie year thing. Eight, nine years, they're still doing it. And then that happens. I called the Huxable Syndrome where the parents put the kid in charge of the household. It's the worst thing you can ever do. Right. You're like Casey, you're telling Casey Casey, what do you think me and mom should do? What?

Just because Casey's, you know, hit it big. He's doing big in a real world. you know, he's doing his thing. You would never do that, ever. Right. Never. No matter what, if you were unemployed, you're still the dude. And so that's the whole different.

These people, NIL, it's going to be worse, Kevin. If you allow me back on this show a year from now, we're going to be talking about the downside to all this NIL stuff and making all these pimple-faced kids. hot riders in college, and it's just no need for it to be with these uncontrollables. Put controls on it, I'm in. But whoever thought this is a great idea to not have any borders on this stuff? This is assonized.

All right. We'll do that on another day, because then we can talk about UCLA and the wooden teams where all that money was coming in for players. And Marcus Johnson and Richard Washington were driving around, and Benzes and everything else. So I don't remember that. All right. Give me the keys to beating Detroit.

Well, as you said this week, we didn't. We can't play behind the sticks. We got to be really productive on first down. And Jaden, who has had some opportunities that he has held the ball and had people open, he got to let that ball get out of his hand so he's not a target. Minimize his opportunities to be hit because he can throw, he can beat you with his arm. And I want him to continue along that, but I don't want him being referred to like Lamar. No, do you cut him up from the pocket. It keep hope alive. And out of the Fab Five, that to me is the offensive line.

we look good on the injury list because nobody was on it. So that's the best news I've received all week because I was worried about badass being injured. And even if they are, they didn't post it. So because if they do, they're done. And if they can just maintain pad on pad up front, no free runners. You cannot block everybody every play. But we cannot have a free runner, which forces more fumbles than not.

keep it clean, and all we got to do with this dude, we have, let's get to the fourth quarter in range. That's all you can ask for. Do you have any confidence in the defense to slow down Detroit's offense? Oh, yes, I do. Yes, it to do, because the old pro, old Bobby showed us his best last week. And that to me is everything, because pain, he'll play with a club,

Jay Allen, he showed up. And the rest of the guys, all we need is these guys to stay in those lanes, gaps. Because the guys were playing this week, one guy out of place is over. They can beat you with one play, one running play. They're explosive. And our running game can't match it. We can't go tit for tat with them. They're where we want to be down the road.

every four years ahead of us in terms of a program. But it doesn't mean we can't win it because you can. You can, but we just got to follow a certain guidelines that I think they're capable of doing it. Hell, it's done it six straight times. Why not? And I tell you this, the people in Detroit, it means so much to them. I know. If anybody's going to be a nervous wreck, it's going to be the lions, not the commanders.

especially if what you said about on the road, you can jump out on top, you know, and really get them nice. Score first. You know, he's going to go for it every time he can. And the defensive job that they've done over there in Detroit, I mean, everybody's doing a great job. But let's give old Joe Witt, Jr. a little something to if he gets lucky, Lathamore didn't get set back physically last week. then he could be rounding into the first time this season he can feel good about testing himself I mean the Wolverine is like a homecoming going back to Detroit

San Francisco don't count us out I'm still with 25 I'm still with St. Juice I'm telling you don't forfeit go fight because this thing could still end up in our in our way, in our favor, because this team, man, you know this team has a resilience, unlike anything we've seen because we've been doing this.

I see anybody like this. You feel like Lattimore is confident and okay right now? Yeah, yeah, because anybody, like you know, he's not in game shape. He's not in tip-top week 18, 19 shape. Everybody knows that. But he don't care if he's not about. his pride, it's about getting the job done. And he was good enough for them to win the game.

Now, Bigfella, if he didn't have a setback, and he's better than anybody else you have. So if he didn't get a setback, we're better off with him than without him, is all I'm saying. And the Lions, I mean, dude, what don't they have? They're loaded. They're loaded. But we just can't give up a score and strike.

If we make them 10-play drive, they score a tip of you had to them. But if they come out and hit a bomb on the opening player, Gibbs breaks one and runs over somebody and scores, this is going to be long day. Long day. How big is the physical aspect of the games this year? Watching over the weekend, whether it was the Texans or the Rams on Monday night

or the Eagles, the Ravens, there is definitely a step-up in hitting, don't you think, in the postseason? And how important... We have to be. If you or die. Yeah. I mean, that's...

That's it, right? There's a desperation, but man, that gets amped up this time of year hitting. It's do or die. It's like, you know, preseason, nobody wants to play. Regular season, you know, September's awful because nobody has hit this, you know, Philip Potterpuff. The second season comes, it's beyond ferocious. Because if you like your teammates, you don't want it to end. Right. I think this team really gets along well. They don't want it to end.

and that's not just talk. And so now you're seeing it. You think Detroit wants their deal in? There's nobody with a better karma, better spirit right now in the entire league than the Lions. Those fans, you had Dan on. I spoke to Dan Sunday from the game. I'm so happy for him 25 years for 20. I mean, Dan.

And it's still not there. Everybody, oh, you went for it. They just dropped the damn ball, catch the ball. It had been in the Super Bowl last year. And it's still not guaranteed they're going this year. Because this is not a layup. Play-by-play. Dan Mill.

Yeah, Dan Mill. The Voice of the Lions. Doc. Yeah. Doc and Dan. Yeah. The Voice of the Lions. For many, many years.

You had a great interview with him. Oh, well, he's, I mean, he's one of the, you and Dan Miller and, Andy and, you know, James Brown. I mean, we're talking about the legends of the station. All right, let's finish with the thing that you love to do this time of year. Predictions. What is your prediction for the game on Saturday night? That's what I'm glad.

Whenever you can do it without laughing, then I'll probably. Then you'll give the prediction. All right, let me try again. All right, let's finish up. Doc, go ahead. Give me your prediction. Give me your prediction. You think we got a chance, though, right?

You know what? From a football standpoint, there's no way the Lions should let anybody come into their house and beat them. They're built for this. They're loaded. But if there's anybody capable of doing it, it's his kids with the 5 on his jersey. Now, he's just different.

Now, and I think the people have bought in around him. JD 5, they believe, for a rookie to have this kind of following, he's infectious. You know why? And Terry. Scary. Terry. And so who do you want to win?

Who you want to pull for? You can throw a coin up on this one and say, may the best team win. And you can really mean it. But if you look at Detroit, they're three years ahead of you, they would be devastated if they don't get the job done. So much.

They'll be crushed beyond comparison. And we'll just say, J.D. for president. I mean, it'll be that kind of thing. What would be saying about this kid? Oh, if he goes in and wins Saturday night? Yeah. If dude. I mean, it would.

I mean, we'd be in the NFC championship game. That hasn't happened since 91. I know it. I know you still can't even believe we're playing this weekend. You know? No. No, I can't. But I mean, with Jared, I can't because Dallas, I mean, the idea that's the only thing that makes it better is if we were playing them. And they were in it, you know, things. Oh, can you imagine.

And all the noise coming up there. No, it's fun. Yeah. This is fun. Well, per usual. Good luck. Per usual, I think that everybody listening learns something, and I'm being very serious here, because I picked up on it.

You always have a theme to your visits here. And the theme today, and it's probably part of your motivational team-building, you know, lectures, is you don't want to be the person to let your teammate down. And that's always the case when you like the team you're on and you like the teammates that you're playing with. When you love them. Yeah. And beyond like.

Right. This is man-crush love because you got to genuinely be able to take a shot for a guy teammate, just like Allegretti and Be honest, and inside with the Longhorn. How they played last week, Longhorn is hurt, man. Cosmy. These dudes are not 100 percent, and they're in their battle. And you imagine going against dudes bigger, just as strong as you are in a game like that?

That was Tampa Bay with Veda, Veda. He's two men and one. And these dudes held together. It's unimaginable what these guys have done, what they did last week. against Tampa's defense. You love the big uglies. Amazing. Well, that's because I want to win.

This was... You're a receiver guy. I know you love the wide-out. This was... I like them, too. Yeah. You got to win with the big uglies. Well, the lions have some big uglies on their offensive line.

They're the best. Yeah. They're the best. All right. This was fun. Are you going? Are you going in? No.

The time you leave? No, I'll be working. I just, I'm always working like you are. So I'll be in here doing a podcast. after the game, and you'll be doing the post game on 1067 The Fan and 980, simulcast after the game. Who are you doing it with on Saturday night? Do you know yet?

Toby. All right, Toby. You have a youngness in charge. You guys did a great job last week. It's fun listening to you. I appreciate this, as always. And I'm honored, and I hope Chris recovers. Tell him to get well.

I haven't heard from him in two weeks. He was some big wrestling thing. Um, yeah. Whoever's hurt. You were my number one. Per usual, you were my number one. You were no, you were no fill in. At Rick.

Doc Walker. Can I borrow Tommy? Sure. Of course. Okay. For your podcast? I always feel guilty. For your podcast, you'll have him on the podcast.

No, I have him on the show. Yeah. I don't, we don't do guests on my podcast. We're not taking up. Do you've had Tommy on your radio show before? Yeah, but I always have to add. I make sure. You never asked me once.

you would never have to ask me. No, I always clear. I don't have been to, all your people I ask for. You do not ask and you'd never have to ask. I do. Why would you do this? Why do you do this?

Why do you make people feel like I'm some tyrant? What are you talking about? It's just so not true. And you know it. Everybody knows. You know it. You don't go to a bar.

Go to a bar. over a boss of the head and they go to his people. All right. I'm done with you. At Rick Doc Walker on X. You can listen to Doc's podcast, which I've never been on at patreon.com

slash Doc Walker. Per usual, when I have you on, this is enjoyable, and it's such an honor to have you. Thank you so much. Give my best to your family. And to you and yours as well. Love you.

Talk to you over the weekend. See you. Leave it. Bye. Doc Walker, everybody. We'll talk to Duran Payne next after these words from a few of our sponsors. So, guys, if you're like me and you've basically been buying and wearing this same type of underwear for years, in my case, boxer briefs, same brand, same type for a long time, well, not anymore for me. I want to tell you about skims for men, something I've discovered recently, the softest underwear. I've ever worn. I got a few pairs of the 5-inch boxer briefs so comfortable. No matter what you're doing

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Windonation.com or 86690 Nation. All right. Joining me right now after the team's Wednesday practice is just finishing up is one of my favorites, as most of you know, over the years. Doran Payne calling in to give us some insight on Saturday night in Detroit. First of all, how are you doing? What's the situation with your finger? Oh, man, I'm good. To wrap it up and get back out there for the playoffs.

I mean, credit to you, you're a warrior. came back into that game. I think a lot of us saw the x-ray that you put out there on Instagram. By the way, don't do that again. That looked painful for you, but it was unpleasant to look at. Why? Because a lot of people were saying I was weak for not going back into the game. You don't have to worry about what people think about you.

But they just don't know that my bone was like outside of my finger and I had to wrap it up so I could get back out there. It was. It was painful for us to look at. But we saw you back in the game, and it was great to have you back in there. But you're good. You think you're ready to go Saturday night in Detroit? Oh, no, for sure.

I will be out there. Get into it. All right, good. By the way, real quickly, before we get to the game, you got flagged in the Dallas game after the Cowboys made a field goal. You want to tell everybody why you got flagged? Yeah, I'm pretty sure everybody. seen it, no why.

The guy who did it, he does dirty stuff all the time, and he just wanted to do something like that. I reacted the way I did. My coach probably wouldn't want me to react like that, but if that happens to you, you kind of have no choice but you react like

that, so it is what it is. Yeah. Look, I'll tell you, I mean, in my immediate reaction, I was not happy that you reacted that way, but then after seeing the replay of it, For those of you that missed it, Brock Hoffman, who plays guard for the Cowboys, grabbed Duran in the private parts area.

And, by the way, he got fined for it. You did not. The league recognized what he had done, and they find him like $5,500 or something for doing it. What's the worst thing someone's ever done to you in a game that nobody saw? That's up there, for sure. but the worst will probably just be you know playing d line you'd be in all kind of piles and and all that stuff so you might get still you might get a hand step on anything it's there's a lot of stuff going right well yeah i mean i'm sure at the bottom of piles a lot of

shit goes on um all right look you've been here seven seasons most of them pretty rough you know from a team standpoint, franchise standpoint. How did it feel Duran's Sunday night to be on a team in the NFL that won a playoff game? I feel good. And I just know this team, like, we fight so hard. And I know a bunch of our games come down to the last, like, last couple of seconds. But I feel like that's just a testimony to, like, how strong we are as a team. And, like, our bonds and how we would just come together just to put.

without a win. Yes, you know, it's actually something that I was going to ask you about is just all of these close wins. You know, one of the things that's been talked about a lot during the course of this season is the improvement in the culture of the franchise. You've been around here as long as anybody has. You've been here for all the craziness and now you're here currently. Explain it to us. What's different about the culture right now, than what it used to be. Well, I'd have been through, like, a couple of coaches, and I feel like I knew coach.

I knew head coach then. He just came in and just put an emphasis on, like, coming, like, together, like, just bond and together. Like, I know when we first got in in OTAs, like, we just did a whole bunch of just bonding exercises. Like, we weren't even going over plays or none of that stuff. So that's, like, that was super new to me. And I feel like it's just helping us.

down the line. Yeah, I mean, there's been this discussion just about this brotherhood. So this has been the most brotherhoodish team you've been on since you've been here, I'm assuming. No, for sure. We are definitely, everybody's locked in. Everybody's. And it happens so quickly, like, it happens so quickly, and they just try to get us

to act and make ourselves to each other. And when we did that, just at a quick rating. Look, you've been in this league long enough to know how important having a good quarterback is. What do you think of your guy, Jaden Daniels? Man, he's a tough young guy, man. I know you see someone in the hits he take, but he might get hit, but he'd get right up and still be slinging that thing and still be running. So he's a tough guy. He's a competitor, and he's somebody that we've been behind.

I love him as a person, man, as a football player. Who's the best quarterback or the most difficult quarterback you've ever faced in the NFL? Probably just them scramblers, man. Lamar Jackson, not Travis, but Patrick Mahomes, anybody that can get out of their pocket, it makes it hard. Yeah. All right, so one of the things I think we've all noticed here recently, especially in the Dallas game and the Atlanta game.

You've actually been playing defensive end a little bit in recent weeks. Why? Yeah. I just give my team a chance to have like a big edge guys. Just have like guys that's not usually out there for tight ends to go out there and set edges on them. I know when they see me a lot of guys, they just like shake their head. line up. So I know it makes it hard to deal with having a guy that's 300 plus pounds sitting

the edge on them. So I probably that's just the aspect. Do you like it? Oh, yeah, I definitely like it. It gives me a chance to, I get less double teams out there for sure. But it's a lot, it's a lot. I took my head off the deepest end, man. It's a lot for you to see out there.

You got to see a line, man. You got to see keys. You got to play, um, quarterback option and all that stuff. But it's fun, man. I like playing D-line, so it's a new challenge for me, and I'm taking it on. Stopping the run has been an issue for this team this year. Why do you think that's been the case?

Man, I go on and know about it, but I feel like we've got it together, for the most part, these last couple weeks. We've just been trying to just focus on, just getting off blocks, striking and striking guys, and just playing our keys. You're playing a hell of an offensive team on Saturday night in Detroit, you know, maybe the best offensive team in the league.

So what's the number one goal in trying to slow them down, trying to stop them? Stopping the run is always the first goal. Once you can make a team one-dimensional, I feel like that's where we can start attacking them. We can send guys, blitzing guys and all that stuff. If we can put out that run and get them to drop back and get up as their quarterback, I feel like we'll be in a good position.

On film, do you see Detroit's offensive line as the best you face this year? I want to say that. I know they're very well coached. They're extremely well coached, and they know how to execute their game plan. Who is the best offensive line you faced this year? I'll say Baltimore had a pretty good O-line. Philly's offensive line up there? They're up there.

They got some pretty big guys on the O-line. They're up there, for sure. You've always got a good O'Line. You mentioned that this is a game we're stopping the run. is critical. And then, you know, interior pass rush would be huge, right, against a quarterback like golf. This is a big spot.

And I think a lot of people are hoping that D-Ran Payne, John Allen, and the interior of that D-Line step up in the biggest game of the year. So what would you say to those people who are hoping for it and expecting it? No, I can't wait to go out there on Sunday. One leg, one arm, one hand, one, I'll be out there ready to keep. easy. Be the way it goes. Best of luck to you.

I'm always rooting for you, Duran. I appreciate you doing this. I appreciate you. Duran Payne, everybody. That's it for the show today. Thanks to him. Thanks to Doc. Back tomorrow with Tommy.

Second down. He came close this time. Touchdown. Touchdown. Has that changed? It's an interesting thing in this game, whether you call it momentum or you call it confidence or whatever you call it, the 49ers had it in the first half and the Redskins having the second half.