The Kevin Sheehan Show - So...Playoffs?

Episode Date: November 22, 2022

Kevin and Thom today on a variety of topics to start the show including Thom's dream girl, soccer, Brian Orakpo, and John Wall. Most of the show however focuses on where the Washington Commanders are headed in this turnaround 2022 season. How many games will they win? Will they make the playoffs? If they get there, are they a threat to win games?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. And we've gotten some really good reviews on Apple Tommy.

Listen to this one from Ermom. Great podcast. Love when Tom is on. He should be on more often every week. Kevin, I think Tom is right when he theorizes that Snyder pushed for the Carson Wens trade. The amount of compensation. in draft picks and money is a typical Snyder move.

He's such a mark around the league. Other teams know he's always going to overpay for something he wants. Keep up the great work, guys. Appreciate that from Ermom gave us five stars as well. From 2508, Iceman via Apple Podcasts. Kevin is awesome. Thank you so much. Love when Tommy is on.

can't wait to visit Shelley's back room one day. Love Kevin's passion for Maryland basketball and his desire to see Dan Snyder ousted. I look forward to listening to the pod every day on my way home from work. Thank you,

Iceman. Appreciate it. You got Tommy's favorite cigar bar in your review, and you got, in your name, my all-time favorite basketball player, George the Iceman, Gervin. You know, I got to meet him.

Cooley and I were doing this show at the time, and we did this event out at Craton Farms, which is the Jack Nicholas course out in Loudoun County, beautiful spot. And George Gervin was playing in the charity event, and they came by and they said, hey, we've got Jack Nicholas, and then they started to list a couple of people. And then the last name, they said, we've got this guy, George Gron, Gervin he played in the NBA. And I just said, yes, that's who I want. I said, you're telling me that the Ice Man's actually here? And they're like, yeah. And I said, please get him and we will sit here and wait for him. We'd love to talk to Jack. That'd be great. We've had Jack on the show at some of these

charity events before. I want the Ice Man. And Tommy, he could not have been nicer. He lit up a couple the times when I talked about some of his big games, especially in the games. I bet he did. Some of those playoff games against the bullets in the Eastern Conference finals, you know, the Spurs, before they started winning NBA championships with Duncan and Popovich and Robinson and, you know, all of them, they felt like they were completely ripped off from a potential championship in game seven of the Eastern Conference finals. in 1979, when the bullets were the defending champs, San Antonio, for you kids out there,

they were in the Eastern Conference back then, and Game 7 of a phenomenal series, Eastern Conference Finals was played at the Capitol Center, and the Spurs had a 10-point lead in the fourth quarter, and the power went out. And there was like a 15 to 20-minute delay until the power came back on, and when the power came back on, the bullets made a run, and they got every single call down the stretch. And the great Bobby Dandrich hit a, you know, that patented, you know, 15-foot baseline jumper, which was his spot. He knocked it down.

And then Elvin Hayes got a block shot at the buzzer, and they won the game by two in advance to the finals in that game. And we talked about that game for several minutes, and he said, you know, the power went out. By the way, he had 42 in game seven. He averaged nearly 40 for the series that year. That was actually a real thrill. That was, that's a top five all-time interview thrill for me. Not to mention that he was so good, too, and such a great storyteller and couldn't have been nicer. So anyway, how do we- That's great. You know what? It's always great when your heroes don't disappoint you. I know. That's true. Because sometimes they do. Sometimes they do. You know,

but I can't think of anything in particular in my situation. Seber. I guess maybe, no, Seber didn't disappoint me. Seever. Oh, Disappoint you. I, yeah, no, no, I thought you just meant meeting somebody that you were a big fan of. You know, maybe Carly Simon might be the one. Yeah, but you haven't met her. You know? Well, but I did. I was on stage. I was on stage. I was on stage in that group of, you know, it was 300 women in May. Oh, right, when you saw my wife in line, yes. Yes, 300 women in May, and everyone on them were crying but me. And when I got up there and tried to talk to her, it wasn't English,

and she looked at me like I was some kind of moron. Oh, my God. So that might be it. That's so funny. I remember you telling this story. I think I was a disappointment to my hero then, as much as she was. a disappointment to me. Did she understand that you get a little bit nervous in those situations and you couldn't

speak? I've been with you during those situations. I tell you what, you know, if she had one word for me, it would have been asshole. Oh, no. You were just, you know, you were flummoxed. I was. I was a bit flummoxed. You were in front of your all-time dream girl.

I remember when you told this story about Carly Simon about how you were absolutely convinced that if you got seated next to her on an airplane or a train ride, that by the end of that flight or train ride, that she would be in love with you, that all you needed was just a little bit of time and a seat next to her. And I just remember going, really, you really are that confident that you're such a smooth operator. And there you were with the chance, finally, you and 299 other women in line and Tommy couldn't speak when he got in front of her. Oh, my God.

I don't know. I'm trying to think of, I don't know who my dream girl is because that is, that's your dream girl, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny. I was compiling a list of women

who I was really infatuated with from afar recently. and they're all, I mean, God, they're all old women now. Well, I want to hear who's on the list. Well, Carrie Snodgrass. She was an actress in the 70s. Carrie Snodgrass? Yes.

I don't know who that is. Let me see. Who is the one? I forget who some of the other ones were. you know but Carrie Snodgrass was definitely one it's definitely a unique list you know and if I could find it

I tell you but I can't share it with you right now okay you can't remember any of the people that you wrote down no it's drawing a blank how long was the list it wasn't that long okay one of my favorite one of my favorite conversations that we

had that got so much reaction. I'm just being reminded of this as we're having this conversation. Remember, I don't know, it was last year or maybe two years ago, we ended up with a conversation about pinup girls from, you know, like the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s. And I'm telling you, I can't remember a time in which we got so much reaction social media-wise to that conversation where people were sending in names of women that I didn't need. even know of. You know, like I can remember somebody sent in like the actual pictures from a magazine of some woman from like the 1950s.

And she was hot. I had never heard of her. But, yeah, I mean, for me... I got a couple more. Okay. I figured out a couple more. Okay. Joanna Cassidy was an actress.

She was in a movie called Underfire and a few other movies as well. Was she David Cassidy's mother? No. No, no, no, no, no. And Adrian Barbeau, who was in the TV show Maud. Yeah, yeah. She was, she was blessed, you know. She was blessed.

Yeah, she was blessed. She was blessed. Yeah. I do, I think I recognize her. But, and I vaguely remember the show Maud. Maud was one of the all-in-the-family spinoffs. Yes, it was. And I didn't watch Watt, but I was a big fan of hers. Right. Okay. Enough of that. Let's get to something else here.

I think there's a big game to talk about. Yes, there's a big game to talk about. I haven't gotten your reaction to the game on Sunday. We've got a game this coming Sunday. By the way, Washington's up to a four and a half point favorite now in a lot of spots. Doesn't surprise me. That's a reflection of a lot of the sharp money on Washington right now. There's also a lot of Atlanta injury issues. Kyle Pitts is going to be out. He's getting, I think he's getting surgery on his knee.

I think it's an MCL. He's out on injured reserve. Yeah, well, let me just start. What did you think of Sunday? Oh, as impressive a performance as we've seen recently. And you tweeted this early, and I confirmed it. I tweeted it as well. I tweeted your tweet.

that it was evident early on that Detroit, that Detroit, that Houston. That Houston had no answer for whatever the commanders had. They had no chance early on. The only team that was going to be Washington were the commanders on Sunday, and that was pretty evident right from the start. I mean, you know, they couldn't protect Davis Mills. They couldn't generate any kind of offense.

and Washington was not beating themselves offensively for the most part. They were moving the ball with a good running program. They had a great game plan, and it was probably one of the better performances we've seen under Ron Rivera. Well, it's like the biggest lead they've had. Well, in 2020, they crushed the Cowboys a couple of times. you know, when the Cowboys had their backup quarterbacks and their third string quarterback out there, I mean, they destroyed the Cowboys in the game here

and on Thanksgiving. I don't remember what the halftime scores were, but this game, yeah, I said it yesterday. I tweeted out it was only 7 to nothing at the time, but Houston had two, I think two or three offensive possessions at that point. And I hate doing this because it can come back and bite you in the ass on social media, but I'm like watching it, I just said to my son, I'm like, Houston has no chance in this game.

Like the only way they're going to score more than the seven that Washington has now is if they score on defense or special teams. Like this is an absolute massacre at the line of scrimmage, you know, and it's just not going to change because Washington's really good on defense. We've been saying that for a while. And on Sunday, it really is still amazing to me that, you know, I was talking to Sam 48 this morning on the radio show. I think Sam does a really good job of covering the team, and I think he really knows ball among all of the reporters out there. And, you know, they held Damien Pierce, a guy that as a rookie was, you know, one of the best young running backs in the league this year, who was averaging 4.8 yards per carry and 85 yards a game. and had just run for a buck 37 two weeks ago against Philly's defense. They held him to eight yards on 10 carries.

He had no chance to actually move forward with the football. And we've been talking about the run defense for a while, and the run defense is just elite. It is elite right now. And the defense as a whole is, Tommy, I said yesterday, I take San Francisco's defense and Dallas's defense in the NFC over Washington's. That's it. I like Philly's defense a lot.

I think Tampa's defense fully healthy can be really, really good too. But Washington's in the conversation at number three defensively in the NFC, which puts them as an obvious top 10 defense in the league right now. What we thought we were going to get last year and didn't, we are getting this year. Yes. And I wrote about this. column today in the Washington Times, which I sent to you last night, which I'm sure you've read by now. I haven't read it. After the show this morning, I've been running Thanksgiving Day

errands because we are hosting Thanksgiving again. We've been doing it for 20 years, and we have a big group coming over. I will get to your column later, but since I haven't read it, and those that are listening probably haven't read it, why don't you share some of the highlights from it with everybody, including me? Let me just point out that you can't really do your radio show without reading my column. You might be able to think you could do your radio show, but you can't really do it. You know what that reminds me of? Remember when I got a certain call from a certain somebody in the market and sports media who told me, how can you even do your radio show before reading the Washington Post? And I said to him very easily, I can do it. Thank you.

And by the way, that's not a knock on some of the columnists and even some of the reporters. I think Nikki and Sam do excellent jobs, actually, covering the team. But look, there are so many, you know, that's like a 1995 comment. I mean, that's a pre-internet comment. But go ahead. Okay. I wrote how possibly, if you look back, this season, and at the time we thought it was chaotic,

this season may have been saved back in the middle of training camp when they fired Sam Mills. I think that's part of it. I think that is definitely part of it. Yeah, I mean, at the time, we made fun of it because it seemed so out of left field to fire your defensive line coach in the middle of training camp. But I wrote, I'm going to give Ron Rivera the benefit of the doubt in this that it must have been really hard for him to fire Sam Mills.

And that he was hoping to avoid it, you know, as long as he could. Because Sam Mills has been coaching with Ron Rivera since 2011. And one thing Ron Rivera values, it seems, from afar, is our relationships. He seems to be very close to his coaches, close to his players. So I'm guessing that rather than get rid of him in the offseason, which would have made sense, then you can interview candidates and stuff, he was hoping to see something different in training camp, whatever it was. He didn't see it, and he made the move. And you've talked about it, I know, and I've talked about it as well.

For whatever reason, Sam Mills' presence was a source of friction among some of those defensive linemen. Definitely. I mean, those guys were fighting on the sideline last year, and now this year they're slapping hands and hugging each other. I think that that was certainly a big deal. I think Cameron Curl's return in week three after he missed the first two weeks of the season probably is an underrated part of the defensive resurgence after the first two weeks. And I definitely think moving on from William Jackson, the third, was a big deal.

Yes. And I think all of those things come together. And you've got a team right now that is well-coached, disciplined, a phenomenal tackling team, and talented. I mean, this is the thing about... I mean, this is what we thought was going to start back in 2017 when they drafted Jonathan Allen. This was the vision, you know, as they kept drafting guys like Durant Payne and Montez Sweat. This is what we thought that everyone was going to see. You know, this was what the vision was supposed to be.

You know, then with Chase Young came along, four number one draft picks on the defensive line. And they certainly weren't living up to that expectation, but now they are. Now they're the team that when opposing teams watch their game film, the offensive linemen go home with nightmares. No doubt. Teams are watching this team on film, and they're like, we can't even think about running the football. And, you know, they, yeah, I think, I don't think, I said yesterday,

I don't think they've been this good defensively since the Greg Williams teams in 04 and 05. Those two teams specifically were excellent defensively. The 2020 team was good defensively, but it was very young. It was inexperienced. And they weren't playing, you know, down the stretch teams with really good offenses or good quarterbacks. We've, you know, been over that and covered that ground forever. It leads to this, Tommy. I really am bought in a little bit to the podcast.

that this team can make a little bit of a run this year. You know, we get it every five or six years where, you know, you've got some optimism that the team can make the postseason and in the moment might, you know, be the team that can get hot, you know, when you get there. This team, you know, I was watching last night. I'm watching the 49ers because I think the 49ers right now are the best team in the NFC. I do. I think, you know, offense, defense, coaching staff, the running game, the ability to

really wreck games defensively with Bosa and some of the other players they have on defense. But the NFC playoffs right now as it stands, it doesn't appear that it will be a playoff, a postseason where there will be elite level quarterback play like Aaron Rogers. Now, Tom Brady, withstanding, because the Buccaneers could still put it together, and Tom Brady could end up dominating a quarterback less or an elite quarterback. quarterback less field in the NFC playoffs. But it sets up the opportunity, which is something we've seen this year just in general in the NFL, better defense, run first teams.

And if you have that old school tried and true formula of stopping the run, running the football, and winning the turnover battle, which, you know, is a formula that, you know, even in this day and age, will win you a lot of games. Now, eventually we certainly believe that over the last 10 to 15 years, you've got to be able to throw the football, you know, to win and to be a consistent winner over a period of time and to really have a chance to win a Super Bowl, you've got to be able to get explosive plays and have a quarterback that can take over a game and throw the football. But in the NFC this year, you know, I'm watching last night, San Francisco,

And, you know, people shit on Jimmy Garapolo all the time. And I'm not the biggest Garoppolo fan, you know, in terms of his overall quarterbacking ability. But, you know, don't forget that, A, he has delivered big time in big games for the 49ers in recent years. You go back to the closing stretch of the regular season last year where they had to win pretty much every big game. They played Cincinnati. They played the Rams. He was a monster in those games that they had. had to win to get into the postseason, and then he played okay in the Dallas game, came up with

every big throw at Lambo. And they were, you know, a Joquiz-Tart interception drop away from going back to the Super Bowl. But anyway, I'm getting sidetracked. Well, actually, one more thing about Jimmy G. Cooley told me the day that they traded for McCaffrey, he just said, Jimmy Garoppolo just got the answers to the test before the test has been handed out. And I said, well, what do you mean? He said, by putting McCaffrey on the field with George Kittle and the other things that they have,

but primarily with Kittle, he said, knowing Kyle's offense, Jimmy G will know pre-snap on passing plays where to throw the football every single time. Those two will dictate coverage. They will make coverage appear before the snap, what it's going to be, and Jimmy G's always needed that because he can throw it, and now he's going to have the answers to the test before the test. Jimmy G. since the McAfree trade, okay, six touchdowns, no interceptions, completing 73% of his passes, and his passer rating in QBR numbers in the last three games, it's the best three-game stretch, or it's equal to the best three-game stretch of his career. So his passer rating over the last three games since McCaffrey got there is 119.5.

They've won three games. They're six and four. They've got a tough schedule and it's tougher than Seattle's. But I think the Niners are right now my favorite to go to the Super Bowl out of the NFC. And I think they'll win the division. But anyway, back to the point that I was making, which is other than Brady, because cousins, as much as I love Kirk, he's not Rogers. He's not Brady.

He's not elite. He's not Mahomes. He's not Josh Allen. You know, you will... Dak Prescott isn't either. He isn't. Jalen Hertz isn't either. You know,

the, you know, Gino Smith isn't. Taylor Heineke obviously isn't. So you're, you potentially have an NFC playoff field without the elite quarterback. And so run the football, stop the run, and don't commit a lot of self-inflicted mistakes, and you're going to have a chance to win a game or two or maybe three.

I mean, I don't think Washington can win three of those, but I think they can win one of those. You're talking playoffs, right? You're talking playoffs. Yeah, because I think Washington is going to go to the playoffs. I do. Okay, well, you have said all along you think 10 wins is going to take to make the playoffs. Do you still believe that?

Yeah, the only, caveat to that is the Giants and the two matchups with Washington. Because the Giants have lost two of their last three. They're now seven and three. Let's just assume that they lose to the Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day. They're eight and a half point underdogs and they drop to seven and four. Then they have a then in their remaining games, they have the Eagles twice, Minnesota, Indianapolis, and Washington twice. Now a month ago, the Washington games looked easy. Now, Washington's going to be favored in the one, you know, in D.C. at FedEx. And they will only be a slight underdog in the Meadowlands more likely than not.

So it'll come down to those two games. Like if the Giants really fall apart here, then nine could do it. Yeah, nine could do it now because the Giants, after losing to the Lions, that was a big game for them Sunday. You know, because they eight and two, then all they got to do is win two more games to get to two. Now they've got to find three more, so the two against the Giants head-to-head will be the determining factor on whether or not it's 9 or 10. Yeah, it probably will. I mean, if you look at the schedule game or the remaining schedule,

they're probably going to have to beat the Giants twice to get to 10. You know, I don't know. I mean, I think they can win Sunday. I think they can split with the Giants. That's eight. I think they can beat the Browns at home. And then the Cowboy game, it's possible that the Cowboys will have nothing to play for. It's possible.

It's possible. That's the only way they beat the Cowboys, that's the only way they beat the Cowboys, I think. I mean, because the Cowboys game will expose their biggest weakness, and that's past protection. Well, the 49ers will do that too. And by the way, the Browns could do that too. Yes. I mean, you know, we don't see it as much as we did with the other guy because Taylor Heineke's getting rid of the ball quicker

He moves around more, but he's taken a lot of shots The offensive line has done a terrific job run blocking But this is their weak point It's past protection And Micah Parsons I don't know any other I don't know why Dan Quinn and Who's his name? Who's the guy Ross who used to play football?

for the team. He said, they've got a big podcast. Who did you say? Ross Tucker. Oh, Ross Tucker. Yeah, Ross comes on the podcast. He basically, he doesn't know why Dan Quinn just doesn't send Michael Parsons after the quarterback every single play. You know, just every play. I mean, he's unstoppable.

So, I mean, I just think the Cowboys game, but you're right, if the Cowboys don't have to play for anything, that changes and could play in the Washington's favor. Now people listening out there will go, She and well, what about Seattle? What about Seattle? Well, here's the thing. Seattle's 6 and 4. I think Seattle's better than people think.

And I think Seattle can get to 10. Now, the next three games are crucial for Seattle. They play the Raiders this week at home. Then they're at the Rams who are falling apart. I mean, I don't know that Matt Stafford is going to play again this year. And then they've got the Panthers. So those are three games that they will either be, you know, they'll probably be favored in all.

three. What's the line against the Raiders this week? There are three and a half point favorite against the Raiders this week. I think at the Rams, if Stafford isn't starting, Seattle will probably be a favorite in that game. Let me see if there's a look ahead line on that one. No, not yet. But Seattle, in what they do the next three weeks, will be a big part of the, you know, how many wins will it take as well? If they could, if Seattle plays well, and they've played well, you know, this year. Even in their losses, they've played well. So if they can beat the Raiders, Rams, and Panthers to get to nine,

then they have the Niners, Chiefs, Jets, and Rams. They'll get one of those, you know, if not two of them. So I think Seattle does have a chance to win four down the stretch and get to 10. And then, you know, you're talking about tiebreakers, you know, two potentially for a spot. But I think the Giants, I told you on Friday, that it's the other two NFC East teams, the Giants in particular, that they're going to have to run down. And on Sunday when the Giants lost and Washington won,

you know, this weekend, if the Giants lose to the Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day and the Redskins beat the Falcons, you're talking about Washington being a half game back of third place with two games upcoming against. the team in front of them, the Giants. So, and, you know, here's another way to kind of look at the overall NFC landscape right now. Because I asked Sam this question, and then, you know, and I'll ask you the question, and then I'll answer it as well here on the podcast.

Right now in the NFC, who's obviously better than Washington? You know, who's playing better and who is, well, who's better than Washington right now, obviously? not debatably, obviously. 49ers. Yes. Cowboys. Yes. The Vikings.

Nope. I don't think they're obviously better than Washington right now. They had to come from 10 down in the fourth quarter. You know, on some big-time throws as he was getting absolutely nailed. And they just made plays. Taylor threw a big-time interception that blew the game. Okay. You know, it's-

contributed to the loss. I mean, wouldn't you still say the Eagles, even though there's going to be commanders beat them? Yes, I would, because Washington needed every single thing to go right that night to win the game. They had to get those fumbles. They had, you know, they had to get the face mask miss. They had to get everything to go their way just to, you know,

have the, you know, the five-point lead there at the end for the final play. And that's it. That's the list. I agree. The Niners, the Eagles, and the Cowboys. I think you can make the case that Washington, Tampa Bay is the wild card in the NFC

because they certainly have the talent and they have the quarterback. And if they put it all together, you know, down the stretch and they win the division, which they should win the division, and they're sitting there as the four seed, then, you know, they're going to play a game at home as a division champion. So, you know, that's the, that's the team that I don't really have a feel for. We're going to see here, because they got some big games coming up. I'm looking at, you know, a lot of these power rankings have come out,

and I want to see how far up Washington's moved in the ESPN. 13th, okay? Three weeks ago, or, yeah, three weeks ago, they were 31st. If nothing says week-to-week league more than the commanders at three weeks ago, or maybe it was a month ago, even after the Chicago win, even after the Green Bay win, they were still like 29th, 30th, and they're 13th now. How many NFC teams are in front of them? Seattle is?

The Giants are, San Francisco, Minnesota, Dallas, and Philly. So six teams in front of them. I just don't think that you can obviously say Minnesota, Seattle, or the Giants are better than Washington. In fact, we're going to find out with the Giants coming up. Yeah, we are. I mean, because in a way, the Giants are tailored-made for this Washington team. I mean, if you can stop Saquan Barkley and force Daniel Jones to beat you, then you're in control of the game. Yeah, and they just lost one of their more productive wide receivers.

So, you know, the Falcons have some injuries ahead of the game Sunday. The Giants now have some injuries ahead of the game in a couple of weeks. So, yeah, you know, it's like also, we said this before the game on Sunday. Washington's strength, their defense, their run defense in particular, and here come a bunch of run first teams down the stretch for them. I mean Atlanta on Sunday the Giants twice

then you get the 49ers the Browns and the Cowboys right now the Cowboys are a run first team and if Kellan Moore sticks to that kind of play calling the Cowboys are going to be really tough it's when he drops stack back 45 to 50 times that they're in trouble

so the strength of their opponents will match up with the strength of Washington. Now, with that said, they're going to play in the Niners and the Cowboys in particular two excellent defensive teams with total game wreckers on both sides of the ball. Yeah. You know, in Bosa and Parsons. And by the way...

That's their weak spot is protecting their quarterback. Yeah. And, you know, Cleveland has given up a lot defensively, but they still have Miles Garrett. and by the way, they can run the football, you know, but it'll be their, you know, strength against Washington strength. It's interesting. I mean, you know, I know people are out there going, what's happened here? What just happened over the last couple of weeks? I know. I hear you. It's a reasonable question. It's a reasonable question. But you've got, you know, you can't, You can't say because at 1 in 4 or even 2 and 4 or even 4 or even 4 and 6 or whatever they were, hey, I just don't think they're very good.

I mean, they're playing better. You can't say after, you know, you can't stick with that if your eyes are telling you something different. The big difference between 2020 or even last year with the four game winning streak is that they are a very good. defensive team right now bordering on an elite run-stopping team. Elite. And save for J.D. McKissick, who really wasn't much of a factor this year, they've been healthy offensively in their skill position. Yeah, the offensive line had those issues, but the offensive line...

The skill position. Yeah, skill position is true. The skill positions have been healthy. And they've got a really good running back situation right now without McKissick. Yes. Really good situation. Yeah, K.R. Heineke has got a lot more weapons than he did last year available to him. And the move to Heineke, forget about what it's done to sort of galvanize the locker room to a certain degree.

And I'm totally on board with that. It also changed Scott Turner a little bit. Scott Turner decided that, you know, it's, I think, to be honest with you, I think if he had kept with the formula from last year's four-game win streak, the formula that he's employing right now, even more exaggerated in some ways with their run over pass ratio. I think actually if he had not had this what he thought was a new toy with a big arm and they finally had somebody that could throw the ball down the field, if he had given Wence, I'm not a Wence fan, okay, I'm not here to defend Wence. I'm just,

I'm thinking out loud here. If he had, you know, called, developed game plans and called the game the way he has the last few weeks with Carson Wentz, I honestly don't know if the results would have been much different

than the results you're seeing right now. I can't, I cannot deny what the locker room thinks of Taylor Heineke. I understand that and I think that's a big big thing. I think it's a big deal, especially since they're winning, but they're being led by their defense. But there's been some magic created by Heineke. The end of the indie game was huge, huge. That game was over. It was 16 to 70. He had thrown a pick, and they were down two scores, and he created two incredible drives. And so, but I'm not so sure that if Scott Turner had entered this

season and saying, I know we got a guy with a bigger arm and we can do more things with Carson Wentz than we could do last year or even the year before with Alex Smith or with Kyle Allen. But we figured out last year we should be a run first team and we should really try to possess the ball and we should try to, you know, to have that formula, I think I think Carson Wentz would have done better. I think the team would have done better. I do Is there anything else that you can't deny? I'm wondering about Taylor Heine.

Anything else come to mind? Okay. All right. I had this right here. I had this right here. Dylan on Twitter. Sheehan, don't forget, you owe Tommy a big, big cheer and a pat on the back. And of course, I said for what?

And he said, for the call of Carson Wentz being benched by week 10. Yes, yes, yes, you deserve a lot of credit. Here's a question for you, though, okay? If he hadn't gotten hurt, because remember, one of the things we talked about when you made that prediction is, I said, it's got to be pulled not because of injury for you to be right. So how does the fact that he got injured, which gave Taylor Heineke, the opportunity, how does that factor into the amount of credit you want for this? Oh, very little because he was going to get, I mean, part of the reason was that his lack of mobility back there.

I mean, you know, that seemed, I saw that last year when he was with Indianapolis. Even though he ran the ball at times last year, that's different. from being elusive from a pass rush. You know, he was a target for a good pass rush. And I just felt he just wasn't good. He wasn't going to hold up. That was one of the reasons. I didn't think he was very good.

That was two of the reasons. And I thought the locker room would tire of him. That was the third reason. Right. But I just thought, you know, back in August that this was inevitable. Well, you got one right. That's the best he can do. No.

No, no, no, no, no. You nailed it. I actually agree with you, too. I can't deny. I can't deny that there's more, the only issue here is that it would have been hard for them to do that. You know, because they would have wanted to stick it out. They wouldn't have wanted to look bad.

think so. Okay. I don't think so because we have to consider how much of the decision to acquire Carson Wentz was truly the head coach. Well, I mean, on that, you know, on the day in question, you know, he certainly made it a big point to say it was my decision. So I think, I, you know, Carson Wentz was not very good in that game that they won against the Bears. Now, he did to be, to defend him a little bit, Curtis Samuel dropped a touchdown pass, right in his hands from 50 yards out, perfectly thrown ball. You know, it near the end of the half. I understand that.

It happened. I understand that. But what I'm saying is he didn't play very well that night, but I'm just giving you, you know, there was a big opportunity for a big game-changing play, and one of his best players didn't come through for him. So if he hadn't gotten hurt, he would have, you know, he would not have been benched before the Green Bay game. Okay. If he hadn't gotten hurt against the Bears and they won the game 12 to 7, which they did with him playing hurt, he wouldn't have been benched for the Packer game. And then it would have been, yeah.

I hope everyone's listening very closely to this. Okay. Lots of if. Well, when, well, the if on the Bears games isn't an if. I'll tell you why. Here's an if. on the Bears game. They're lucky they played the Bears when they did. Yeah, but let me just, true. That's true too, but you know what? That's another indication of how

great the defense is. You know, like I had mentioned after the Eagle game when I thought it was really the beginning of some indications that they were much better defensively than we thought after the first two games, that they had completely shut down the Eagles. They held the Bears to seven points in that Thursday night game, and the Bears have averaged close to 30 since. So yeah. But I want to ask you, if he didn't get hurt, you agree that he would have started the Packers game the following week, right? Yeah. He wouldn't have been bench for that. No, there would have been three, four sacks a game or more would have been the standard operating procedure.

Yeah, I mean, there would have been more for sure. I don't know if it would have been three or four more, but there would have been more. but there would have been more. But I think the overarching point here is that it's impossible to guess which game, but eventually they probably would have said, you need to take a seat and we need to give, you know, Taylor a couple of swings at it and see how it goes because they probably would not have, I don't know, they may have beaten the Packers.

The Packers were terrible on offense that day. Terrible. Yeah, they were. I mean, Aaron Rogers was a conscientious objector that day for crying out loud. They were terrible. You know what, though? I don't think he would have led to come back against the Colts down 16 to 7. That's for sure.

No. No. Okay. I don't think so either. All right. What else do you need from me to feel good about it? That's it. That's it.

That's more than I expected, actually. As pathetic as it was, it's more than I expected. All right. Question for you to ponder during our little commercial break here. How many wins do they get and do they go to the playoffs? Yes or no. We'll both answer that when we come back right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by Shelley's back room, Tommy, your favorite cigar bar.

You know, I got a tweet from Mike Mous Cop 2552. I think you got the same tweet too. Okay. Saying Tom Levero having a post-game cigar at Shelley's back room. Awesome. Thanks for the recommendation. Hail to the Redskins. There you go.

So this is a guy, this was his first trip, the Shelley's back room, and he went because he heard us talking about it here on the show. And look at the ones who haven't done what Mike has done, you're missing out. You're missing out right now. I mean, between now and Christmas, if you're coming down to D.C., to see the holiday market, to see the Christmas tree after it's lit, you know. I mean, make sure you stop in the Shelley's back room for some great eats. They have a terrific menu to have a great collection of whiskeys and liquor for sale.

And, of course, a nice smoke in a very comfortable, warm setting. So if you're coming to town for the holidays, you know, tell your wife, tell your family, tell your friends. One of the places we have to go is Shelley's back room because Kevin and Tom said we have to. And that's the name of that too. Tommy, will they have the soccer on? The World Cup? Yes, they will. They'll have the soccer on.

They are an international bar. So, yes, they will have the soccer on. By the way, they're also, if people, you know, there are so many TVs down there. So if you're not into the soccer, because it's a game that, you know, can, get kind of tedious when they kick the ball around and kick it backwards and do all the things and, you know, wait for the guy that's rolling around on the ground like he got shot to get up. They'll have other. And take one shot, one shot on goal, like that kind of tedious.

And have two shots on goal. They'll have other sporting events on. They'll have hockey, basketball, any of the football, you know. By the way, it's a great time to be at Shelley's during the holiday season, too. Everything's decorated. And, you know, during the day, you got games on. because there are bowl games going on, all that stuff in the next few weeks. It's awesome.

Great spot. I do want to tell you, though, because I know you don't know this. This morning, Saudi Arabia beat Argentina. I know that. You do know that? I mean, that's sort of like, I don't know, that's even bigger than the commanders beating Eagles, isn't it? It's apparently a lot better, a lot bigger.

They were a plus 2,000 underdog. here's all you need to know about this game, and I had no idea. I'm sitting here doing my radio show, and my producer said, Saudi Arabia is beating Argentina, and I said, yes, so? And he said, I think this would be a pretty big upset. So I looked it up, and I saw what the odds were for the games, not to mention this. Argentina was the second pick to win the World Cup behind Brazil,

and along with Costa Rica and Qatar or Qatar, Saudi Arabia had the longest odds to win the World Cup at 75,000 to one. I mean, or yeah, something like that. Maybe it was plus, I think it was 75,000 to one I saw. So, yeah, this was like a titanic upset in the sport. And it's being felt, you know, around the globe, this big upset. I did watch the game yesterday, Tom. did. I don't hate soccer as much as I used to. You still hate it with the same level of passion

and still think what? It's the sport that non-sports fans like, right? It's a sport for people who don't like sports. And I watched the game yesterday as well. I watched it up here in Frederick as well. Okay. I watched all the action. All the action. All the action. I don't know anything about soccer. I really don't think it's that hard if you're a sports fan and you're into football, basketball, baseball, and strategy. And you're a pretty solid, you know, X's and O sports fan, as much as you can be as a fan.

I don't think it's really that hard to analyze a soccer game. Of course, those that are listening to this that are into soccer, are rolling their eyes and laughing at me. That's fine. That's fine. I know that there is zone time and possession time and all of that, you know, increases the probability that you'll get more shots on goal, which increases the probability of scoring at some point. Understood. And I know that there's strategies and plays and the whole thing. I don't know. When I watch it, it's like that team seems to have the ball, you know, down at the other end and they've got more shots and more opportunities than the other one. It seems like they're the better team.

That's kind of my analysis. And I heard all of this hand-wringing after the game about how the U.S. should be absolutely disgusted with themselves, that they ended up in a draw with Wales one-to-one. And I'm like, I watched the game. I thought whales completely dominated the second half, and the U.S. is fortunate that they got the draw. Now, I watched the first half, too.

That's not the same argument. I mean, you were talking about what happened during the game, and most people were saying, I mean, this was a team that the United States should have dominated. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is the first World Cup since 1958, Kevin. They had a lot of time to get ready for this game. Wales did. When was their last World Cup? 1958 was the last time they played in a World Cup game.

That's 64 years to get ready for this thing. Yeah, it is. That's not true, though. I heard the analysts on Fox after the game were talking specifically about this game. Oh, you can't go by the analysts on Fox? Those people were morons. What do you mean? You would have thought this game was, you would have thought this game was being played in Disney World

if you listen to the people on Fox for crying out loud. Why? That's absurd. Why? I mean, it's being played in a rat hole of the earth where you could get arrested for being gay or drinking. Right. And I'm telling you that they acting like they were playing this in the Magic Kingdom.

Okay, well, I'm talking about their analysis of the game. Oh, they're all cut from the same moronic crew. Okay. Let me tell you something. That game was a joke. I don't even know. It was an embarrassment. It was an embarrassment.

And most media outlets embarrass them, except the Washington Post, which had this headline on their coverage. Young U.S. men show they belong, but settle for a World Cup draw with whales. So they belong with whales. Wales, who has a talent pool of 3.2 million people to draw from. This is like 49 states versus Connecticut. It isn't, it isn't. It isn't.

Because of whatever the population is there, the tiny fraction of the U.S. population, all of their best play this sport. They put all of it into this sport. We don't care about the sport here. Our best athletes don't play soccer. They play 15 sports before you get to soccer. How good can they be since they haven't qualified for the World Cup in 60 years? I will tell you this.

I knew who Gareth Bale was from the Euros over the summer. So I knew his face and name when he lined up on that penalty kick. Can I just finish the point that I was going to make, I think? I'm listening to the I'm listening to the analysis of the game as if the U.S. should be absolutely mortified that they ended up in a draw

because they were clearly the better team and they didn't make certain strategic moves or whatever. And I watch the game and I understand that they probably could have had more than one goal in the first half, maybe. I mean, there's a lot of complaining about the referee. but my God, I watched the second half, and I thought Wales looked like they should have scored three or four goals.

They were close to scoring three or four goals. It's hard to be close to scoring a goal in soccer. It takes a while to get there. I don't know. I thought Wales was the better team in the second half. I did. And I talked about it on radio, and there are several people that did tweet me and say, I agree with you.

They were the better team in the second half. And the U.S. getting out of there with a draw, not bad. And apparently the coach, whoever he is. But they shouldn't have been the better team. Well, Saudi Arabia shouldn't be better than Argentina. Should they be? Well, you know what?

If I were FIFA and FIFA being an organized crime unit won't do this. Right. I mean, I would put a halt on the bets on that game and conduct an investigation. Right now. Right now. Right now. Please. And we're going to start with Mr. Messi.

Although he did score a goal. He did score a goal. Hold your tickets as an inquiry. Yeah, hold your tickets. We have an inquiry going on. The eighth race will start in 37 minutes. Yeah. Oh, man.

Okay. And now they've got to play England. And for what I've heard, based on people who have, based on the fact that English guys come over here to, you know, to goof around with the major. league soccer and it's always a big deal. You know, I'm thinking that England's pretty good. So I'm thinking the United States has basically zero chance

in the game against England. But, you know, winning is not the game. You know, winning doesn't matter. You just got to get into the points, you know. Oh, hold on here for a second. Hold on here for a second. Because this is insane.

So I asked my producer Denton this morning, So what happens, you know, if, what are the tiebreakers here? Because I think it's goal differential, right? And he said, yeah, it's goal differential. So if Wales, you know, beats Iran and the U.S. beats Iran and they both lose to England and both teams are one, one and one. And England's 3 and O and Iran's 0 and 3.

What's the – and what happens if the goals are the same? The goal differential is the same. And he said, well, here are the tiebreakers. he said, number one tiebreaker is goal differential. Number two tiebreaker is goals scored. The number three tiebreaker is head to head. And I said, whoa, whoa, stop for a second. I wasn't asking you about the tiebreakers in the event that they, you know, that one team won over the other.

This is that they had a draw. And he said, no, no, no, these are the tiebreakers. So head to head is the number three tiebreaker. So let's just assume that Wales beat the U.S., but they both then lost their next, you know, they both had a draw and won a game in their last two. Or they had a loss, we had a, they had a loss, what would it be? Sorry, because I want to make sure that they don't finish in last place. They end up winning a game and they also lose a game.

and the U.S. wins both of their games, and they're both sitting there at two and one. You know what the tiebreaker is? Goal differential, not head-to-head. Goal differential in the aggregate of the three games. And then the second tiebreaker is goals scored. So Wales could have beaten the U.S., been in a tiebreaker with them, and lost out because of goal differential. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. How can't head-to-head be the absolute first tiebreaker? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If I'm wrong about this, which I could be, somebody tweet me. You didn't hear. Look, I was listening to you. I was listening to you. I'm convinced that if you took the Kansas City Chiefs and you sent him the soccer camp for three weeks that they would go over and win the World Cup. With Ted Lassau coaching him. Yes.

They'd win the World Cup. Okay. That's ridiculous. And this is where I have moved down a slightly less cynical and critical path on soccer. There is definitely a skill level and an athleticism that I can appreciate as a sports fan. in watching not, you know, I don't, I can't tell you what an MLS game looks like. I've never been to one. I've never watched one. I can tell you that in getting into the Euros and the World Cup over the last several years,

there is incredible skill and athleticism in soccer players. You can't send the Kansas City Chiefs over there if they've never played soccer. They would get absolutely, no, no, no, no. They'd get out. Three weeks in soccer camp. Three years, yes. Three weeks, no. I'll tell you what, that one Kansas City Chief is going to fall down when somebody breezes by them.

Look, there are some things about this game. I mean, the whole timing thing, I don't understand why, but they, you know, this real soccer fans, or at least the fake soccer fans that are down in DuPont Circle, like they actually know anything about soccer. Watching these games at watch parties. The next watch party I go to will be the first one, Tommy. And by the way, at that point, the last one,

because I want you to put a bullet in my head. The whole... The whole timing of the... The stoppage time thing where it's like just a random arbitrary plus six, plus eight. And then in stoppage time, when you get another three or four players,

that are rolling around on the field, like they literally got shot multiple times, and then you have that little stretcher that comes out, and then the guy jumps up, he's fine. You know, after the whole faking thing, then it's up to the referee. Like, I don't know, was that a minute? Was it two minutes that he was down on the ground rolling around?

What do we do here? Why can't you just have a clock that counts down each half from 45 to 0-0? and when the guy does the thing where there's no contact and he's rolling around on the ground like he's seriously injured for a minute and a half to two minutes, you just stop the clock. Why can't they do that? I have a hard time watching it and just watching. I was watching it with a bunch of other guys and saying, you know, the clock's moving, isn't it?

Like when something's going, they're just standing around for two or three minutes. And I said the clock is moving, right? It's like not stop. No, but they're supposed to add time, but when you get to the added time, which they call stoppage time, which is very arbitrary estimated anyway. Plus nine yesterday. And it turned out to be much longer than that. Well, because there were a bunch of rolling around situations in the stoppage time.

And then it's, you know, I'm listening to the broadcasters and they're like, well, we don't know when it'll end because it's now up to the referee. and you see him looking at his watch, there's nothing precise about the timing of this sport, which is maddening to an American where we have replayed to review tenths of seconds at the end of halves in games. It's so incredibly precise. I don't get that, but I will tell you that I do enjoy. There's something about the pageantry,

the importance of it to the rest of the world, the skill, I can, I do actually, I can see that, where I have found myself in recent years watching a lot more of it. Okay. I've also bet it. That might be the reason for interest. Oh, that would be, I mean, really? Well, I mean, come on.

Wouldn't you think that that Saudi Arabia game is fixed? I don't know. I don't know how often these kinds of upsets happen. I saw the odds for the game, so it is, you know, they're calling it one of the biggest upsets in the history of the World Cup. I don't know. Do you remember? I guess it was the 2014 World Cup, and the United States beat Albania. I don't remember that.

And because I remember I literally made fun of it because Albania, the only thing I knew about Albania is Abin and Costello were there in a movie once. Okay? It's some obscure country in Africa, and it was like we had just beaten the Third Reich or something like that in World War II. And I just ridiculed, and I got crucified. I got crucified for ridiculing. They beat Albania. Well, didn't Iceland do really well in a World Cup or a Euro recently?

Iceland. Yes, Iceland. Iceland. Oh, come on. I swear to you, they did well. It was a year. It's some kind of ice skating competition or something? The point is that the size of the country doesn't matter.

If your whole country is dedicated to finding how many players are out on the field at the same time, I forget. You know, it does matter when it's an overwhelming number. When it's like $350 million to $3.2 million, it does matter. By the way, Iceland was in the 2018 World Cup. And I think that's because they did really well in the 2018 euros or whatever that would have been, I think. That was their first World Cup. It was? Yeah.

Okay. Well, awesome. Yeah, they were at the Euro. They were going nuts in Reyk. They were going nuts in Reykjavik. You've been to Iceland, right? Have I been to Iceland? Yes, I have.

I've never been there. People tell me to go because it's an easy, almost like an easy flight. Oh, it is. Over there? Yeah, it's very easy. You know? Yeah. And it's kind of cool because, I mean, the prices were always good.

I don't know how they are now. No, it's not cheap. Oh, you mean flights. You're talking about flights. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not cheap when you get there.

So, no, I've never, I've never done that. But I have other European trips in the future. I did Iceland a few years ago. We did Iceland, and it is a physically beautiful. beautiful country. But Tommy, it was rainy and cold a lot of the time, and this was in

June or July. I think it was July. And Reykavik was fine. I mean, you know, it was sort of outside of that that was really it was beautiful. I thought it was okay. People rave about it. I thought it was okay.

It was not my favorite trip I've ever taken. But I remember, I'll tell you what I remember about the Iceland trip. It was during 20, the summer of 2017, now I know specifically when I was there, the summer of 2017, because while I was away, it was when Bruce Allen went public and threw Kirk cousins under the bus with that press conference where, you know, he basically said, you know, we made him the largest offer in the history of whatever. And I remember seeing the numbers. and I remember immediately tweeting out, this is going to be $30 million short of what he gets on the open market.

Trade him now. Right now. You have no desire to sign him, and he probably has no desire to play here anymore, but trade him now. Bruce Allen, for all that maybe, you know, he was as an administrator as a general manager, and I think that there are some things that Bruce Allen probably

did well and does well and people around the league probably respect him for. He misjudged the market on free agents all the time. And Cooley went into his office and said, your $54 million offer, he's going to get offered $85 to $90 million. And Bruce laughed him out of the office. And of course, as we know, the next off season, he got not only did he get 84 from the Vikings, It was guaranteed all of it, the first in NFL history. And the Jets offered over 90.

It Jets offered them more. Yeah. And this is why, I don't know how, you know, we got here through Iceland. We got here through Rakeovic. I'm just going to finish the thought because it still drives me nuts when people say, well, it was Kirk's decision to leave. No, when you offer him $30 million underneath the market, you give him no choice. Now, I don't think he wanted to stay.

We'll never know for sure because they never made him an offer that he could accept. His agent laughed at the offer, okay? His agent laughed at it and said, are you serious? And then, of course, they turned down the number two overall pick in the draft from the 49ers, if not more. Gruden's convinced it was more than just that pick that was offered from San Francisco. Whatever. They deserved what they got.

And this team's much different. So let's go back to football. So the question to you is, and I put out this Twitter poll yesterday, I gave four likely outcomes to Washington's regular season. To me, the four most likely outcomes. Online. Yes. And basically it's eight, nine, or ten wins. You know, eight would be a two and four finish.

Nine would be a three and three finish, and ten would be a four and two finish. And eight wins would be no playoffs. Nine wins would either be the playoffs or no playoffs. wins would obviously, I think obviously, be the playoffs. I mean, it's possible that 10 could end up in a tiebreaker with a Seattle or somebody and you could lose it, I guess. Which of those four outcomes or give me another one? Where does this thing end at the regular season? End of the regular season. I'll give you the outcome of nine wins and no playoffs. Three and three finish no playoffs. Yeah. Okay. I think they split with the Giants.

I think to the 49ers and I think I think they lose to the Cowboys Okay so you got Now again it's hard it's hard to really qualify that Cowboys game

because you're right It could be meaningless Could be for them It's possible It could be meaningless They could have And that would change The 5C knock down

And their you know Their playoff destination already determined at that point You know And there's still a chance Dallas could get back into the division race They played the Eagles on Christmas Eve. But I think the Eagles with a two-game lead right now are still more likely than not going to win the division.

But they still play, I think they play the Titans on the road maybe. I forget what their schedule is. So I've got them, Tommy, winning four of their final six, finishing 10 and 7. And here is something for you to consider. I think they'll have a chance in the tiebreaker with Seattle to grab the six seed, not even the seven seed. And the six seed would put them in a six three first round wild card weekend matchup. And more likely than not, that would be a game at San Francisco. And that would be tough because I think of all of the teams that they could face on the road in the first round of the playoffs.

Like I think they would have a chance at Minnesota. I think they would have a chance at Tampa. I think they would. I mean, that's a big if because we don't know what Tampa will look like at that point. But I think the 49ers, if they are the three seed, and right now, say the NFC East winner is the one seed, Minnesota is the two seed. It's possible Minnesota could drop to the three seed. But that's where I have them.

I have them 10 wins, playoffs, and potentially not even, you know, sweating it, being the six seed and in. I think they're a good football team right now. I think they're an excellent defensive football team. I really do. And I don't know what this means to the larger pitch. I think they are. I think they're an elite defense. Absolutely.

I just think that they, you know, I also think, you know, this is kind of what I envisioned when they hired Ron Rivera. You know, he did it in 2020. He did it for a four-game stretch last. last year. His teams never go south on him. They really like him. And let me clue everybody in on something else, which I think we've said before, they really like Jack a lot. And that defense is nasty, it's well-coached, and it's talented. And, you know, here's some of the things that, you know, we thought, we thought they were wrong on Jamie Davis.

Doesn't look like they were that wrong. I mean, will it turn out that he was worthy of a first round pick? I don't know, but he's playing pretty well. They got some of their late round picks pretty well. Benjamin St. Juice is one hell of a cornerback. Cameron Curl is outstanding. Derek Forrest is playing outstanding football. And then even a guy like James Smith Williams, you know, has played pretty damn good football as well.

He's a seventh rounder on a D-line with three first rounders. but a D-line that's about to get back another first rounder in Chase Young. And that's where I want to finish up this segment, and then we'll talk some Thanksgiving and other stuff in the final segment with you. So I think this Chase Young situation is interesting, Tommy, because I'm going to preface it by saying he's so gifted. We saw he had a rookie of the year defensive season in 2020. And everything we thought he could be or I thought he could be,

and many of you thought he could be as the number two overall, pick. He showed that and more his rookie year, winning the defensive rookie of the year award. And then last year was a real problem before he got injured. He was playing undisciplined football, not playing the scheme. And now that we've seen when they play the scheme and what it looks like when they play the scheme and how coordinated everything is on their pass rush, you know, it helps too if you're not on the field a lot, like they weren't last Monday night against Philadelphia, like they weren't that much on Sunday against you. Houston, but that's part of their doing too to get people off the field.

But what do you think Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio are talking about when it comes to inserting Chase Young back into the games here down the stretch with something that's working so well? I think the idea is they're keeping the brakes on him. if he plays Sunday he's going to have a limited snap count you know snap count and I think they're using easing him in as a way to keep him under control

yeah I mean the truth is everything is kind of working for them in that they want to protect him they don't want him to they don't need to rush him back and that's a good thing for them right now because they're probably not totally convinced at this point that him being in there as a full-time player is going to be great for them. I mean, I certainly believe that there's a really good chance that I'm dead wrong about that. That last year was a learning experience for him because he's a bright young man and that his talent combined with playing the scheme will end up producing a great,

a Chase Young that turns into a monster in the best player on this defensive line, eventually. But I think for now, they're probably, you know, they've got the benefit of being able to say we've got to ease them back. Yes. You know, 10, 12 snaps. And if they see something they don't like, then they're going to say they need to protect them a little bit more. Yeah. Because Montez Sweat is unbelievable right now. Payne and Allen and even Smith Williams and some of the others.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, let me give a lot of credit to the personnel people over in that building. They lost Matt Ionitis and Tim Settle. And their defensive line has not only good, but has depth, you know? I mean, has depth. And I got credit for that. But I thought that they would really miss both of those guys, particularly when it came to the depth along the defensive line. And the other thing, you know, look, Jake's Young, you know, was the defensive rookie of the year,

but I've said this before. He did not have as good a rookie year as Brian Arakpo, and nobody farmed over Brian Arakpo like they do over Chase Young. What did you say? He did not have as good a rookie year as Brian Arakpo did. Oh, bullshit. We've had this argument before. I don't give it.

I don't care. up, Sonny. Sonny, I don't give a shit about the numbers. The impact on the game that Chase Young had down the stretch of that 2020 season was miles ahead of whatever Arakpo gave him in his rookie year. If you want to make it up, that's fine. What do you mean? If you want to go by the numbers, Brian Arakpo had a better rookie year.

Why would you go from the, well, yeah, if you want to go by the numbers, okay. Chase Young was a dominant player down the stretch. Brian Arakpo was never a dominant player. And by the way, what was his? rookie year? Was his rookie year the year where he had basically like five of his whatever number of sacks against the horrible Raiders? I mean, when one, huh? Four sacks. Four sacks. Without those four sacks, that puts him at Chase Young's number. Chase Young, Tommy, was a difference maker in a playoff run down the stretch of 2020 where he was making play after play. I can't even

believe that anybody in their right mind would compare Brian Arakpo's rookie year to Chase Young's. This is your familiar move. This is what you do. What? You ridicule reasonable positions. It's not a reasonable position. Having to say, you know, you were right. It's not a reasonable position.

And I will not say you're right on this. When have I had, when, first of all, I usually don't react this way because you don't say ridiculous things that often. But when you do. This was your reaction to my idea that Carson went to was going to be benched. No. You scoffed at it. You ridiculed it.

Well, no, no, no, I disagreed with it. I disagreed with it. No, you scoffed at it. You ridiculed it. I don't think I ridiculed it. I don't think I ridiculed it. I think I disagreed with it. And what I said was it can't be because of injury.

And I think if he doesn't get injured, he won't get benched. And until the end of the year, if they're out of the playoff race. I don't know. Okay. I think Chase Young is overhyped, and we're going to find out. Well, that's different. That's not what we're talking about. If you want to change the conversation to whether or not he's overhyped.

No, he was? No, that's the same conversation. No, it's not. We're comparing rookie years. You said Brian Arakpo had a better rookie year than Chase Young because of the numbers. Well, I guess based on the numbers, that's true. But if you watched both players, it's really impossible to make. that case. Chase Young down the stretch, think of the 49er game, think of multiple games

where he was a major factor defensively as a real game changer. I don't know that I can remember one game in Brian Iraq Post career. Now, let me just say, I will certainly hold open to the possibility that there were a game or games in Brian Iraq post career where he really influenced the game. Okay, but his rookie year, which I'm pulling up right now, he had 11 sacks his rookie year. And you're telling me that that was the year that they played the Raiders and he had four of them? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Raiders were horrible, right? And he, in fact... That puts him at seven sacks. Chase Young had what, seven and a half sacks? Chase Young had seven and a half sacks. His rookie year?

I believe so. Yeah. I mean, again, I mean, based on sack numbers, sure. Go for it. Chase Young had four forced fumbles, had three fumble returns. Where's his TFL number here? Where's his past pressure number? I don't know.

Brian Arakpo had one forced fumble, his right? rookie year. So by a factor of 4 to 1 on turnover inducing plays, Chase Young by a factor of 4 to 1. Does that change your opinion? Brian Raqko had 15 15 quarterback hits, Chase Young had 12.

Right. Brian Aracpo had 50 tackles, Chase Young had 44. I mean, except for that, you're right. But you're just going to ignore the turnover forced place 4 to 1? I'm just saying, I didn't say it was overwhelming, but I'm saying to you that it was a better rookie year than Chase Young.

I strongly disagree and I ridicule you for saying that because Chase Young down the stretch is rookie of the year. You know, I'm about to send you a text that says this is what pisses me off. Tommy saved me during the break. I was really upset with my wife, and I voice texted her, and he just screamed at me, don't send that. Because what I said was, I'm really pissed off that you're having me do this after. Yeah, and Tommy goes, don't send that text. Whatever you do.

All right. Well, we're going to find out about Chase Young. Well, yeah, we're going to find out. But I'm not debating as to what he's going to be. We were just talking about rookie year versus rookie year. That's all. Yeah. You know, that's all.

That's what we were talking about. Brian Arakpo, there's nothing about his rookie year, to be honest with you, that I can even remember. He was such a, he was a nondescript player for me. He was always injured. His sacks always came against the worst pass protection teams and quarterbacks in the NFL. And I just never thought Brian Arakpo was much of anything. And I was disgusted, if you recall, when they extended him because I didn't think he deserved it. But of course, they were going to extend him because they drafted him in the first round.

Now, was he a terrible player? No, he wasn't a terrible player. He wasn't. I'm not talking about that career. He had a really good year on a much better team in Tennessee than he ever had a year. By the same amount of force fumbles, four. They had the same number of force fumble. No, I'm looking at Brian Raqpoe.

He had one force fumbles rookie year. and Chase Young had four. That's what I'm looking at here. Well, that's what I'm looking at here. Looking at Pro Football reference, Brian Arakpo, force fumble one in 2009. 2009 was his rookie year, right? Let me just look it up again.

Yeah. Force fumble one. Chase young four. Okay, he finished fourth in the defensive rookie of the year voting. Chase Young finished first. Boy, that's surprising to me. I will tell you that. that he finished fourth in the defensive rookie of the year.

But 11 sacks will do that. When you get four sacks against the Raiders, was Jamarcus Russell the quarterback that year? He may have been. He may have been. I don't know. His sacks that year came against... No, he had to four against the Raiders that year.

Four against the Raiders, the quarterback. I just want to see who the quarterback was. It was Jamarcus Russell and Bruce Gradykowski. Look, Chase Young, to be fair, Chase Young's, you know, some of the big games he had and some of the game-changing plays he had down the stretch were against a lot of backup quarterbacks. That's true too. You know, the San Francisco game when he basically just took the ball from people in that game

and nearly scored a touchdown on one of those returns. It was a Sean Taylor-esque play was against Nick Mullins. So I'll give you that, that it wasn't like they were playing, you know, great teams down the stretch. But I think Chase Young's rookie season, especially down the stretch as they were playing big games to, you know, big games as far as a playoff race goes. You know, I know they ended up with a losing record. But he had memorable games his rookie year and made a memorable impact.

don't remember Brian Raqpo doing that. But then again, it was a Jim Zorn season. And he was just complying that year at the end of the year, as we recall, and hanging out with us in our Redskin Park studio. Don't you have anything to do, coach? No, I don't have anything to do right now. All right, we'll finish it up with some Thanksgiving conversation. And I am going to tell you about somebody that you haven't been paying attention to that's playing very well right now. More on that next, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com.

MyBooky.orgie. A.G. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C., and they'll match your first deposit dollar for dollar all the way up to $1,000. By the way, Washington now a four and a half point favorite at MyBooky over Atlanta on Sunday. And the odds, I mentioned this yesterday, Tommy,

the odds of Washington now making the playoffs. They have a yes, no. Will they make the playoffs yes or no? A couple of weeks ago, it was like plus 300 something. It's now plus 134. I mean, it is getting near even money odds that they're going to make the playoffs. Go to mybooky.com for all of your holiday betting needs. God, this is such a great week in sports.

Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. So I want to just tell you real quickly, because I know nobody's paying attention to this, that John Wall is off to a really good start this season playing for the Clippers. Yeah. I didn't know that. Last night he had a half-court shot at the end of the first quarter. But the other – and he's averaging 12 and 6, 12.6, 12.6 assists a game, playing just 22 minutes a game off the bench.

Now, that's a lot of minutes off the bench. and he and Reggie, he's coming in and playing in some big spots. But the other night against San Antonio, John Wall was the first player to come off the bench and record nine assists in the first quarter since the NBA started tracking play-by-play data in 96-97. He finished with 15 assists in the game the other night, the most since Chris Paul was playing in L.A. and he did it, Tommy.

He did it in, hold on, I had this up a second ago. He had 15 assists, Wall did, in 24 minutes, 24 minutes the other night against San Antonio. He had 15 assists, he only had five points, he had four steals and four rebounds. He's playing really well. They're still limiting his minutes because of the injury. Remember, he didn't play at all last year in Houston. So Wall is definitely one of the front runners right now. I would think I'm not, I was looking for some odds on this,

and I couldn't find him on comeback player of the year. But he is definitely in the conversation for comeback player of the year. You know, I know that there's a lot of feelings basketball-wise and otherwise about John Wall. And I agree with everybody that says you were never going to win a title if John Wall was your best player. It's kind of the way I feel about Bradley Beale. You're never going to win a title or contend for it legitimately. if he's your best player. But the best run wasn't the group that was honored on Friday night that Tommy was so excited about,

the big three, since the bullets were relevant back in the late 70s and were playing, you know, the Eastern Conference finals games against George the Iceman Gervin. The real, the best days were the, you know, were the days with Wall and Beal for that couple of years where they were in the postseason

and they won actual playoff series. and they were very close to getting to the Eastern Conference final. If John had not gotten hurt in that Atlanta series, I think they would have made the Eastern Conference Finals. And they were in a very competitive seventh in deciding game in Boston to get to the Eastern Conference Finals. And I don't know, I always... I would agree.

I always kind of... There were certain things... John never got in trouble, really, at all. You know, he did the thing with the gang video, gang-sign video that really pissed him. off Ted Leonis and ultimately, you know, probably contributed to his departure. But there were some bad things that went on behind the scenes. Yeah, but John Wall...

He got into a freak. He got into a fight with Jeff Green at practice. Right. And I... He didn't show up ready to practice, as they like to say, sometimes. Yes. So, I mean, I think he's probably cleared those issues up. It sounds like, based on the interviews, he's done, you know, and put all that behind

him. was not in a good place mentally, that. Tommy, I told you this at the time, and I still believe this. You know, the players didn't love Randy Whitman because he was tougher on them. He was also a much better coach, X's and O's coach, than Scott Brooks. And I think if they had kept Whitman, if they had kept people like Trevor Arisa, not that Arisa was going to have, you know, a major impact on them, you know, going to the NBA finals. but I think that those two players would have continued to grow at an even faster rate.

I think it was a mistake. You know, I felt that way, and I still feel that way about Randy, that he was very underrated by the fans, by the media. Basketball people knew how good of a coach Randy Whitman was, how good of an X's and O's coach he was. And those teams, you know, especially when they had a reason, Neney on the team and Gortot, you know, with a young back court, they had some high IQ players on the team.

They were well coached. And, you know, they had a young back court of two very talented players. It would have never ended in a championship or even a championship appearance. But they would have kept going to the playoffs. They would have won some series here and there. They would have made a run eventually if they had, you know, if the cards lined up to an Eastern Conference finals. I'm just, I'm glad that John's playing basketball again.

again. And not only that, he's playing on a legitimate NBA championship contender in the Clippers. Kauai Leonard, they're easing back into it. Paul George has been out. John's taking some rest days. But when we get to May and June in the NBA playoffs, the Clippers are going to be a major factor. And Wall's going to have his best chance to be on a team as a significant contributor in late May. And I don't know. I think that'll be fun to watch. You know, Kuai Leonard is my favorite player in the NBA, and so I'll root for the clippers to do well, especially if the wizards aren't in it.

And they might be in the playoffs, actually, this year. But it'll be kind of neat to see Wall. So I just wanted to update everybody on John Wall. He's having a really, really solid start to the season. He, you know, again, when you're averaging 12 and 6 in 22 minutes, it's pretty damn good. And he played no basketball last year. And he had, you know, essentially set a mark with nine assists in the first quarter on the other night against San Antonio. What are you doing for Thanksgiving?

You're going to Philly? Yeah, going to Westchester, just outside of Philly. Since there's no Washington game to watch, I probably will not be watching football since I would, there'll be 28 people there. and maybe two of us would want to watch football games. So I don't think there'll be a conducive atmosphere for football, but, you know, I mean, I've just given it. It's the way it is. Didn't you have to get like a card table and your food in a separate room one year?

No, one year, a couple years ago, they were doing renovations in their TV room, and they didn't tell me. So when I got up there expecting to watch, It was like Colt McCoy started for the Redskins against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. Expecting to watch the game, there was no TV there even for me to watch it. So I had to drive around downtown Westchester and found a dive bar and spent my Thanksgiving. Oh, that's right. That's right.

I remember that. Eat pretzels watching the Redskins because I had to talk about them. You know, I had to watch the game. so I don't have to deal with that this year. All right. Well, yeah, I mean, they're not playing on Thanksgiving. There are some good matchups. I mean, the bills are playing a second straight game in Detroit,

and the Lions have won three in a row, and they're pretty good on offense. And then a massive matchup in the NFC East. I mean, it really is crazy, the NFL, right? I mean, the NFC East and the AFC East, all, I mean, the first divisions in NFL history to be into, week 12 with all four teams with winning records since they went to the you know the four division format in each conference back in 2000 what are you doing for thanksgiving we're hosting again we've got

it's not the you know we've had much bigger groups um i think there are 18 this year that's not bad for us at all i think one year we had 40 a couple years we had you know 30 plus um it's it's 18 but all you all the boys are home and, you know, that'll be the fun part, is just hanging out all weekend with everybody home. So, yeah, that's what we're doing. And we'll have football on. I mean, we are one of those homes on Thanksgiving. We're pretty much everybody, including the guests, are interested in football.

So the football will be on in the main room. It'll be on in other rooms. It'll be on everywhere. You'll be able to walk into pretty much any room and football will be on on Thanksgiving Day in the Sheehan household, although my wife likes us to turn all of the televisions off when we sit down for dinner. Now, that wasn't the case when Washington was playing Dallas. We had to work around that. We had to eat after the game.

But this year, there will probably be a period of time, you know, an hour or so that we're not watching football. But we just, you know, we just pause it and we catch up through the commercials. There you go. Have a happy Thanksgiving. I hope you have a good Thanksgiving, buddy. I hope you have a good Thanksgiving, too. Do you want to make a pick on the Atlanta game today because I don't know that you are going to be on a podcast the rest of the week

because we're not going to have a podcast on Thanksgiving Day. And I think Kooley's going to be on tomorrow and Friday. I think it's possible I'll call you up for Friday. Washington, 27, Atlanta, 16. The Falcons are tailor-made for, Washington. They don't have much of a pass rush, and they can't score a lot of points. They can score points, but they have to be able to run the ball to score points. Yes. In other words, they can't score a lot. Like Washington, can't score a lot of points.

Okay. But neither can in Atlanta. Well, Lama's had some pretty big outputs in terms of points scoring this year. But they are a run-first team with a quarterback who runs the ball. And I just, And as far as being tailor-made from that perspective, I agree with you. You know what? I won't deny that. Have a great Thanksgiving. And maybe we'll do something together at the end of the week.

If not, we will talk again on Tuesday. Okay, boss. I'm back tomorrow with Cooley.