The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sports Fix 2.0

Episode Date: September 11, 2018

Kevin is joined in studio by his old radio partner - Thom Loverro. They reminisce about their show "The Sports Fix". They also talk about the Redskins big win over the Cardinals, Thom weighs in on what went wrong with the Nats this year, then they talk about the MNF games, and they close out the show by discussing Thom's column for the Washington Times about Colin Kaepernick. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan show. Now, here's Kevin. No, no, no, no. That's not the open for Tuesdays and Thursdays. We need something a little bit different, please. Hold on. Here you go. How about this? Let's try this on for size. You're listening to The Sports Fix. The Sports Fix with Kevin Sheehan and Tom Rivera. Now that's better. There we go, baby. What a good day. What a happy day this is.

We're back. And we're ready to. We're back in better than ever, as this show before us used to say. At least two shows before us. Two and a half years later, I'm back on the air with Tom Levero. The sports fix revived. I'm not sure Tommy anybody wanted it, but who cares? We wanted it. To demand everywhere I went.

You know, I was on vacation in Florida last January, and I had people stop me on the beach. On the beach. And saying, when are you and Kevin getting back together? First of all, Tommy looks different. We're going to have to tweet out a picture of the two of us recording this podcast. Tommy has new eyes. He's got new knees.

What else new do you have? I can't talk about the one else that's now. Hopefully that other new is a little bit different in stature. But your new eyes, you're not wearing glasses so you look so different. And I've worn glasses since I was 10 years old. Yeah. And the ones that you had, remember, were the ones that you had. where you would dip down a little bit,

and then you would take the paper. This is my favorite thing, watching Tommy. We were in the studio together doing a two-hour show in middays on this station up the street a little bit, 9-80, I think it is. We did it for seven and a half years together, and Tommy would take paper as he was reading it, and he would shove it right into his face so he could see it. That's 100% accurate, by the line.

It is accurate. Now, that hasn't changed because what I got was cataract surgery. I had cataracts in both my... my eyes, the left eye was worse, and through laser surgery and scalpel, they put in a new lens. So I have a 20-20 vision in my left eye. I'm going to have the right eye done later this month. But you have to decide what you want. Do you want to see far or do you want to see close? You can't do both. So most people opt for seeing far and just opt for reading glasses. Right. And that's what I'll be able to do. So I'll be able to get normal reading glasses instead of prescription glasses.

but until that happens for right now, I still have to hold something up to close to my, two inches from my face. Don't you think he was a lot cuter with glasses? It's very fetching without the glasses. I'm glad you are healthy. You're getting around much better. I know that because, you know,

after your first knee was done, we went and had lunch and you were moving around and you were so happy with it, although the first one didn't go quite as well as the second one. Yeah, the first one was much harder to do. Right, to rehab. And recovery was harder. The second one was much.

easier. And hey, look, I mean, not to pat myself on the back, but I know doing a show with you, I'm the only one who will be able to do it. I'm walking four miles every morning. Four miles? Where? Yes. Up in Frederick? Around the neighborhood? Yes. Around the complex? Yes. Around the home? Is that what they call it? Around greater Frederick, baby. You're not doing like the walk around a mall. Oh, no. I am walking around the mall. I am one of the wall walkers. When it rains, What am I supposed to do? I don't know.

Can you imagine him like on the Jersey shore in the summer walking up and down the boardwalk eating potty candy? You know what? With a metal detector. Exactly on the beach. Oh, I got something. Liz, I found something over here. All right. This is...

Wait a minute. Go ahead. Before we get to your list. I don't have a list. Oh, you always have a list. Well, I'm a little bit organized for you today. Okay. I wanted to know, I stayed up all night.

I didn't get much sleep. I had to download. a document to my phone and it took all night to download because I've been keeping a list since we've been gone. Me too. Okay. And my list is a list of everything I was right about for the past two and a half years. I knew it because let me just tell you, look at my, you know what my list starts with? What? Day of reckoning for Tommy. Because two things that you were just dead wrong on, and by the way, you owe me on. I'll get your list in a second. Okay. But it starts with this. You and I had a bet. and this was shortly before the show ended.

You said that the Redskins name would be gone by the beginning of the 2017 season. And we bet dinner at the palm or a close equivalent of that. Yes, Chad. Of that. So that was a winner for me. Yes, you're right. And then the second one had to do with all the fan boy Tiger Woods discussion

about how he would never come back. He was finished. No, no, no, no, no. Was it about a major? It was about winning a major? Okay. I'm getting close on that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Keep it up. Let me hear your list. Okay, well, hang on a second. Yeah, because the document's still downloading. You know what? I can't really tap into it right now. There's one thing I remember off the top of my head. What were you right about?

It's a big one. We picked Redskins long shots to make the team a couple years ago, and you picked some obscure running back named Pinkus McCoy, or something like that. And I picked Matt Ionitis, and you ridiculed me. Oh, I did. You ridiculed me. What was his nickname that you gave him?

What was that nickname you gave him? No, that was different. He wasn't a Pocono Punisher or anything like that. That wasn't a Pocono Pornisher. That was a different guy. Matt Ionitis, I knew because I saw him play at Temple, because my son had went to Temple. So I knew a little bit about it.

I'm one of two college football players I knew something about. Yeah, you gave him, you did. That was the one that you, You got right. Yes. Matt Hyonitis, you grabbed a hold of him and you turned out to be dead right on. What's number two? Well, no, again, I'm having some problems here.

Yeah, because there isn't much more. That's probably not much more. Yeah, I'll have my staff compile it. Now, I will say this. You and I, I think we were both right about Kirk Cousins. Yes. You know, much against the grain early on. I think I called it before anybody.

Oh, you did. Absolutely. I called it before anybody that this guy was a starting quarterback in the NFL. and it would be here or it would be somewhere else. But eventually, and why did I think that? And you used to always say this. It's not because of what you know. It's because of what people who know what they're talking about say.

Right. And who told us over and over again that this guy would be a legitimate top 10 sort of starting quarterback in the NFL was Mike Shanahan. Mike Shanahan. He told us over and over again, you know, early when Kirk wasn't even playing. Right. He said this guy's going to be a starter.

And I, but we both sort of were right on that one. Part of that, part of why I gravitated to it is because, you know, after I had led the RG3 parade before he even took a... How savvy he was. Before he even took a snap when I said there'd be shock and awe in New Orleans. And I was right about that. I sure was right about that. I felt so betrayed by the guy that he turned out to be that I was more than happy to jump on the Kirk Cousins bandwagon by that point. You were, I'll never forget you attending.

I think we were both there. It was the first rookie minicamp for RG3. And it was in April or May. It would have been in May right after the draft. And he's sitting there meeting with reporters. And the jets are flying overhead, flying into Dulles Airport. And he waits for the jets to fly over so that people can hear his answers. And Tommy went nuts over us.

He said, oh my God, this guy is the savviest athlete. I think we've ever seen. This is a home run and it's going to work. And then he predicted shock and on. He was right about the game in New Orleans and the rookie season. But, man, so you did ultimately feel betrayed. Oh, yeah, absolutely, because I believed in Robert Griffin III, the character, the personality. And he turned out not to be that guy.

Look, part of why I was jumped on that shock in awe before the first game is the Redskins players I talked to during training. in camp. I had never heard them talk about a rookie like they talked about RG3. And I thought, Mike, this is something I've never heard before. This guy's going to be something special. And I think a lot of people were fooled. The third string quarterback now, I might want to point out in Baltimore. He was in active. Not second string. No, he was inactive. But, you know, Harbaugh said all the right things about him. And, you know, we would talk about this a lot on the show about a lot of players that were young and people would say to me oh you're just using youth as an excuse it's not an excuse it was always a reason that you have young people who take time to

sort of figure it out and there was always the possibility that this guy maybe at 30 years old would say oh my god what an ass i behaved like at 22 23 and 24 and maybe he has started to figure it out because Harbaugh, I don't think, would just give it out as charity. No. He's not a charitable guy. Look, I think that a reasonable person would have gotten it by now. An intelligent person, I think he's intelligent. He is intelligent.

So I think they would have gotten the message by now and put away the victim card and realize that he needs to be in the right place at the right time to take advantage of an opportunity and not be banging his, not be leading his own parade anymore. I mean, the victim card is what really got played over and over again with him. Look, if it works out for him, great. He's on a roster. That's more than I would have predicted a year ago. I thought he was done.

I honestly believed that by Super Bowl week 2019, the 30 for 30 on the RG3 story would be out. And it's going to have to wait at least a year. Yeah, it will have to wait. And he might wind up getting dealt at some point. You know, the Ravens, a lot of people think the Ravens kept them in part because they think he has trade value as well, in addition to being the third string quarterback. But you know what? Those quarterback drama days are gone here in Washington, right? They are.

They're over. I mean, the new guy there's no drama with. I still think there's a lot of drama to come, but not a quarterback. No, not a quarterback. All right. Let's get to the Redskins. And this is really on Tuesdays and Thursdays. on this podcast that I'm doing, which you can find, by the way, anywhere you can find a podcast and at the website that is still a work in progress. I understand that, the Kevin Sheehan Show.com.

We're presented by Windonation, our good friends Harley and Aaron at Wind Donation. And Tommy's going to be on, he's committed to being on with me on Tuesdays and Thursdays during this Monday through Friday show. Tommy's still doing his thing at 106.7, The Fan. You're on with Chad on Wednesday. days from four to six and I co-host a show with Andy Poland. Which I listen to every Saturday morning. Every Saturday morning, nine to 12. Right. So that's, and to hear Andy and Tommy do that show on Saturday morning,

I know a lot of you have told me the same thing. You love the show. All right, let's get to the Redskins, all right? Because I'm sure you're going to hit him with the aura of self-destruction and it's coming soon. But I did this poll. I never do this poll, these polls on Twitter, Tommy, but I figured out how to do it yesterday. Yeah, I saw that. What?

You were laughing that I did a poll? Yes, yes, I was. So I did, I tweeted out this poll yesterday. It was a Redskins optimism check after one game. And the question I asked was, after the winner of the Cardinals, knowing how many people got carried away with this win, the question was, did you feel like you were watching a playoff team when you were watching the Redskins destroy the Cardinals yesterday? And my answers were definitely yes, was one of the four answers, pretty sure I was watching a

playoff team can't decide and no. And I've got, I think I'm, I'm up to like 1,600 votes on this poll, which means it was a pretty good question, even though you mock me. But guess what the leader was? Can't decide 41%, pretty sure 30%, no was 15%, and what came in dead last in this poll was definitely yes, which basically means people are definitely gun shy about this team. no matter what they see. Because Sunday was dominance for an opener. Listen, it depends on how you perceive the question. I missed the listen.

I missed that. It depends on how you perceive the question. What we saw on Sunday was a playoff team. I mean, it really was. That team, they play like that. Yeah, that's a playoff team. Now, what we don't know is if the opponents will let them play like that. But there's no doubt.

A team that can dominate like that on both sides. to the ball. That was a playoff team we saw on Sunday. But we've seen playoff teams before. In other words, we've seen dominant performances by Jay Gruden's teams. I went back and looked at some of the best games that Gruden has had. The Raiders game last year. The Raiders game.

The Packers game a couple years ago. The Saints, they blew away the Saints at FedEx Field in 2015. 47.14. Yeah. So we've seen dominant performances before. The issue is consistency. It's always been consistency with Jay Gruden's teams. You don't get two or three or four weeks of play like that.

And that's what they've got to prove. They've got to prove consistency. I think in 99% of the cases, I would completely agree with you. The only thing that gives me hesitation to think that maybe what we watch Sunday has some legs is that I think this team, really, if you were to evaluate it objectively, is actually the best team that Jay Gruden's had on paper. It's clearly the most talented defensive team he's had. And it's not even debatable if they're healthy.

And I think they were headed towards a much improved defensive performance last year had John Allen and the Pocono Punisher Matt Ionitis. He's not the Pocono Punisher. And Matt I mean, in Mason Foster, if all those guys hadn't gone down, I think they would have been potentially in the hunt for a playoff spot, anyway, even though the NFC was loaded last year, and 10 and 6 probably wouldn't have even done it last year. But I, Arizona is going to be a bad team more likely than not at least early. So they didn't

beat a quality football team Sunday. They beat a team that's not prepared yet with a new head coach and a new quarterback. But I do believe that if they stay healthy, this is the best team he's had on paper, talent-wise. I agree, particularly defensively. And, you know, up on Until the day before the season started, I was ready to go for 9 and 7 or 10 and 6, mainly because of their defense and in particular because of their front 7. I thought that their pass rush was going to be much better. I thought that they were younger, stronger, better all across from Jonathan Allen, Matt Ionitis, Tim Settles, Duran Payne.

I thought they were really strong there. I thought that Preston Smith going into a contract year would have a good year because money's on the line for him. Carrigan would have his Carrigan year. So I thought if you have more, look, it's a pretty simple formula. You have more pressure from out front. You're going to harass the opposing quarterback. You're going to create more turnovers.

You're going to get better field position for the offense. One thing that's been a nightmare for the Redskins for years now. Field position's been horrible. But that's because they've had bad defense and bad special teams. Yes. And I think that, you know, the defensive pressure will help change that. But when push came to shove, and when I went up to Charlestown to the sports book, and I saw that the Redskins, it reminded me that the Redskins win-lost total was six and a half.

Six and a half, seven, yeah. Yeah. So the aura of. I said, what am I thinking? Who are these guys? What am I thinking? Ora self-destruction, seven and nine. See, that's what, to me, has derailed the possibility of consistency.

You know, this head coach, to me, is an average head coach. I think he's a very good offensive guy, but I think he's an average head coach. And then you take the front office and what it's been like in recent years. I mean, you and I missed out on so many opportunities to talk about so much dysfunction, whether it was McLuhan or just the whole handling of Kirk Cousins, not from a deciding not to sign him standpoint early when they could have, because I think that was a major mistake. but it was really the public relations handling of it,

which was just so aura of self-destruction Redskins-like. But when I looked at it, I'm like, this is not a bad roster. It's a loaded NFC, and the competitive landscape is going to be a problem for everybody in the NFC, but it's the best roster Jay Gruden's had. And if they stay healthy, which is an actual big thing in the NFL for those that try to, you know, sluff it off as, you know, excuse making, if they stay healthy, they're going to have a chance to win eight, nine, maybe ten games. I felt that way too. But after spending seven and a half years with you and then really what happened here over the last two, two and a half years in a lot of

different ways, I have become much more sort of critical or I've, the, you know I'm a fan. You know I want them to win. Here's what happened. What happened? You've seen too much. I've seen too much. You've seen too much horror. You've seen too much terror.

It's been, it's like every time you want to get excited about something, like that Green Bay game that you were put to on a Sunday night. And it's like, they're going to Dallas for the biggest regular season game on Thanksgiving they've had in years. And it's like, this thing's trending up. They've got to get the quarterback sign. They can't screw that up. And they'll get a defense and they'll add some players here in the next couple of years. it's trending up, and then the whole thing goes to hell in a handbucket. And that's what usually happens with this franchise.

But back to the question of whether or not we were watching a playoff team. You're right. We were watching a playoff team on Sunday. But with this franchise, with this head coach, nothing, consistency is just never guaranteed. I did want to ask you a couple of questions, though. And it starts with the owner. Aren't you surprised that Jay Gruden got a fifth year? forget about where we are today.

After last year or even the year before, are you surprised that he's still here? It happened when the McLuhan stuff was about to hit the fan. And it probably happened after five bottles of wine in Indianapolis during the combine. That's probably when it happened. That's how they said, you know, they're really going to kill us on this McLuhan thing.

People were finding out he's not even at the combine. What are we going to do? Somebody at the table suggested the Prince of Darkness maybe Bruce Al. suggested, hey, let's extend the coach. That'll be a good idea. They'll pay attention to that. I really do think in part, you know, somebody at that table thought it was a good time to do it, and they didn't have any other alternative.

So why not? So I think part of the extension is just the Redskins dysfunction kicking in at that moment. It's like the McNabb-Foney extension. Yes. It's part of their playbook. Yeah, after Shanahan accused him of not knowing the- Playbook terminology and being out of shape. And listen, I think he's a very good offensive coordinator.

I think there's some question about, and this has been question about Andy Reid, too. His ability to call plays after the script is put away. You know, the 15 scripted plays that they do. Now, Redskins have traditionally always opened the game pretty strong. You know, they march down the field. They usually score if they get the ball first. In the second half, the offense has not been as good. And it wasn't that good.

It didn't need to be. It didn't need to be. But it wasn't that good. So there's questions about his ability to get beyond the 15 plays as a play caller. My biggest question is the ability to be the CEO of the team and the whole team and to motivate them, or not just motivate them,

but to prepare them to play. I mean, look at the last two season-ending games against the Giants. The first one, they were playing a Giants team that that had already made the playoffs, that was playing for nothing. The Redskins had the playoffs on the line, and they got beat. To me, that's not as bad as last year when they went to New York, when they went to Jersey, the Meadowlands. Why do you care about last year's game?

Well, because the Redskins made it a big deal. Jay Gruden said, yes, it's important to go eight and eight. They told us that we don't want to go nine and seven. We want to go eight and eight. The coach can say it's important to go eight and eight all he wants. That game last year was meaningless. The game the year before is valid criticism because that team looked utterly unprepared for a team that had already clinched a playoff berth played the most vanilla game you've ever seen. Remember, they started Eli, and there was some talk about benching the starters.

And the Giants who could not run the football against anybody that year jammed it down the Redskins throat in the first half. And everybody will point to Kirk not playing well, and he didn't play well in that game. and he threw the back-breaking pick at the end. But Gruden didn't have that team ready. Like he hasn't had that team ready multiple times in big spots in season openers until Sunday. Yes. Although he had sort of a lame team sitting there for the taking on Sunday in Arizona. Yeah.

And if anything, it just goes to show again how utterly useless preseason results are because the Cardinals look like world beaters in preseason. And they had a defense that created. It's 17 turnovers in four preseason games. And the Redskins looked like they couldn't tackle anybody in preseason. You know, I've adopted the philosophy. The less you show in preseason as a team, the more you probably have. And maybe that's the case with the Redskins. Except that that wasn't the case the last few years.

No, it hasn't been. No, it hasn't been. Boy, that works always when it's convenient for you for it to work. All right, there are a few more things I want to get to with Tommy on the skins. then I want to find out what happened to the Nationals this year. Tommy wrote a really good column in this morning's Washington Times about Colin Kaepernick. We'll get to that. But it's Kevin Sheehan here for Wind Donation, and it's back-to-school time.

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sent you. Tommy's here. It's a Sports Fix Tuesday. I think that's what we called. A Sports Fix Tuesday or Sports Fix Thursday. Do you have that open again? Oh, you want to hear it again for old times' sake. Absolutely. You're listening to The Sports Fix. The Sports Fix with Kevin Sheehan and Tom Levero. So I was searching around.

You know, I want you to know that and I wasn't going to tell you this, but I would listen to that every night before I went to bed, the first six months that you cut me loose. Stop it. Stop it. That's not true. That is not true.

And I would cry in my pillow every night listening to that. Tell people right now that that's not true. Cut both of us. Remember the meeting? He looked at both of us. He said, tonight's not your night, kid. No. Yeah. You know, both of us at the same time. That's not true. Leave the gun. Take the canoes, they said. Yeah, but the canollies are good. That's not true, and you both know that it's not true.

And the three of us together had so much fun doing that show, which, by the way, was a two-hour show. Try a four-hour show on for size. But it was so much fun for so long. And Tommy and I really have. How many times have we talked about over the last two years? One of these days, we're going to do something together again. And we are now. And who knows, maybe this will lead to something hopefully bigger and even better.

Because this podcast world, you've been in it for a while. Yes, I have. cars and curve balls. Yes, I have. And it's rough. It's a rough world out there. It's a rough go. Yes, it is. I'm just learning. We'll see how this goes. All right, I want to get to the nationals who got rained out again last night. A bizarre rain out. You follow that, right? Give me the details. I was following it on Twitter. I was watching the football game. What was the deal in Philadelphia? What did they do? Well, as I understand it, it rained up there all weekend and nobody covered the field. Somebody forget to cover the field. So by the time they got to there yesterday, the field was soaked. The ground was soaked. And it got to the point where they brought out blow torches to try to dry the ground. Starting win, right before the game last night? Yes.

Like they didn't know that the tarp wasn't on the field over the weekend? No. So they brought out these blow torches and these flame throwers basically to try to dry the field off. And it didn't work. So even though they could have played last night if the field had been playable, they didn't. Now they're having to play a doubleheader today. And who knows what the forecast is going to be like in Philly today. And look, you and I've talked about this before to show. Sports on the East Coast is about to face a nightmare scenario with the hurricane coming. It could upset a lot of plans. Well, it's really going to potentially impact college football on Saturday. Hold on for a second. Was there any benefit to Philadelphia who is in a playoff race, an independent race? Was there any benefit to that game being rained out? last night for them. Pitching-wise, matchups, anything? No. No? Okay. Not at this stage.

Okay. So let's talk Nats. Well, okay, we'll circle back to the skins because I had a few additional things in the Redskins. You were a dusty guy. I think you probably had Dusty Baker on your podcast like 15 times because every time you teased your podcast, it was like Dusty Baker's back on again. And I know how much you liked Dusty Baker. And I know how much you like Mike Rizzo as well. What happened to them this year? Well, first of all, you know, whether Dave Martinez is a good manager or not and whether or not they should have let Dasty go, those are two separate issues. I mean, Mike Rizzo did not want to let Dusty go. He wanted to bring Dusty back for one more year. He recognized the value that Dasty had in that clubhouse, those foolishness of cutting loose a guy whose team won 97 games,

and whose players let them down into playoffs as much as anything, but the learners overruled them. The learner said, no, we don't want them. We don't, you see, the learners don't value managers. So they thought they could, you know, just plug a new one in. Well, they would have taken Bud Black on the cheap, right? That was the selection before Dusty. Yes, yes, but Bud Black was so insulted by their low ball offer.

He told him to take a hike. So they hired Dave Martinez, but by the time they got into the managerial search, You know, it was too late to get guys like Alex Cora, who's a rookie manager who's done a great job in Boston. Or Aaron Boone, his father is in the front office. Bob Boone, I've been saying for years that Aaron Boone would make a great manager if you're going to take a chance on a first year guy, and he gets hired by the Yankees.

So it took almost 10 days after the season before they actually cut Dusty loose. And that messed up a lot of things. Plus, it was unfair to Dusty. Dave Martinez has made some rookie mistakes, and most of them are with the bullpen. I can count on one finger the number of managers I've been told by relief pitchers who know how to handle a bullpen,

and that's Davey Johnson. It's the only one. Most managers screw them up. Dave Martinez screwed it up early, you know, getting guys up and then sitting them down, leaving starters in too long because he was worried about using his bullpen, which he felt like he couldn't trust.

but in that clubhouse, unlike Matt Williams, Dave Martinez still has a lot of respect. He does. And he has not even come close to losing the clubhouse. That's what everybody was saying. And I remember we had, Cooley and I had Chelsea Janes on, I don't know, a month and a half ago. And she said, the reason I still think they've got a chance to make a run is there's no turmoil.

Like the clubhouse is fine. The players still like Dave Martinez and they believe in him. Even though there was that one story by the USA, today guy, Nightingale, who said that there were some issues and some questioning of Dave Martinez's handling of the bullpen. That was in June. That was still early in the season.

Nobody complains more on the team than relief pitchers. They whine all the time about everything. So every relief pitcher thinks he's being used wrong. And they may have been legitimate complaints. But, you know, as far as a corner of the clubhouse complaining, relief pitchers are always going to do that. And here's the other thing the nationals are dealing with from the national media. they might be the most hated team in all baseball.

Why? Well, first of all, it starts with the learner ownership, and it goes way back to the beginning of the learner's ownership when they used to nickel and dime their scouts on expenses when they first took over before they figured out. Well, this is their MO in every business they've been involved in. Right. And then, you know, there was the Strasbourg shutdown,

which most of baseball thought was like committing a mortal sin. You thought it was the right call. Yeah, but still, I mean, there's still a hangover over that, and then the way they treated dusty. And inside baseball, people not only didn't like it because they liked dusty, they thought it was disrespectful and they thought it was foolish. So, I mean, you've got that combination of things going on where basically the rest of the baseball world is rooting for the nationals to fail.

And they are. I've got three, four follow-up questions for Tom Levero, who is here on the podcast, and he's going to be here every Tuesday and Thursday, as we call it Sports Fix Tuesday, Sports Fix Thursday. Why didn't the learners listen to Rizzo? I know you told me this last year right after Dusty was fired and they started their managerial search that Rizzo didn't want it to happen. Rizzo's been a competent, if not a lot more than competent GM. Why didn't they listen to him? You know, that's a good question. I mean, it's not the first time that they haven't listened to him. on the managing job. He wanted to bring Davy Johnson back.

Davy Johnson was here for two years, 2012, 2013. He initially wanted to bring Davy Johnson back. The learners didn't want to, in part because they didn't want to pay Davy. Davy made $4 million in 2013. That's $2 million more than any manager has ever made in the season for the learners, but they didn't want to pay him any more after that. So they didn't want to bring Davey back. So, I mean, then he wound up hiring Matt Williams.

And even before that, before Matt Williams, Mike Grizzell wanted to actually seriously consider the idea of hiring Cal Ripkin. But the learners didn't want to do that either. For one, they didn't want to pay him. And the second thing is, the Orioles dispute. No, no. The second thing was they told Ripkin that how would we fire you? If we hired you, how could we fire you? Which I think is, it makes sense on some levels, but it's kind of.

Boy, that's optimistic. Yeah, kind of gutless. It's a great way to go into a relationship. How can I date you? Because how am I going to break up with you? That's basically it. So they've turned away from Rizzo before when it comes to managing choices. So it's not surprising.

That's what they do. But they did extend Rizzo. And there was some question at some point during the off season as to whether or not they would do that. And one of the things I thought during the off season is why would Mike Rizzo want to stay here? Wouldn't he be sought after for an available job for much better money? like why didn't that evolve? Why didn't Mike Rizzo say, you know what, you're taking your sweet time to extend me? You're not going to pay me market value anyway, potentially.

Why wasn't there a big market for Mike Rizzo? Why didn't people come after him? Well, I mean, available jobs where? Like in Chicago, where, uh... No, that would be the answer, because there weren't a lot of available jobs. Yeah, available good jobs. Okay. I mean, you know, he's not going to go do a rebuild when he's built this organization

from scratch, basically. And I think that's part of what's going on is he has this organization the way he wants it, except for the owners. But everything from him down, he has his people in charge. He likes the way it were...

If you build something, do you want to walk away from it? Something that's been successful. That's got your fingerprints all over it. I mean like the sports fix? Yes, something like that, that you ran away from. That you spread it away from.

No, I did not. Okay? So I think that's part of it And part of it is he likes Washington, D.C. He does like D.C. He does. He likes living here. Would it have been different with Dasty this year?

I think it might have been. I just think it might have been. It's hard not to say it wouldn't be because everywhere Dusty has been, he's won. And everywhere he's left after he's been dismissed, they've lost. So I think it would have been different. But look, I like Dave Martinez a lot.

and I think he's going to be a good manager. And I've had him on my podcast, too, by the way. So I'm playing favorites for Dusty here. The only manager I have not had, Nats manager, actually, was Frank Robinson and Matt Williams. I had the rest of them all on the podcast. And Dave Martinez is going to be back, unless they just go on like a 15-game losing streak, you know, to end the season.

He doesn't cost much, less than a million a year. but the learners hate paying managers, period, let alone paying managers not to manage, and they'd have to pay him for another two years. You know Dusty well. Is he enjoying this? I think he feels validated. I think Dusty always feels like he doesn't get the credit that he deserves,

and he's right. He doesn't. There's a lot of geeks out there who think their managers sitting in their basement while they're eating their mother's meatloaf who think that Dusty Baker's not a good manager. Right. And they couldn't be more wrong. I mean, you know, look, the two most important things are managing the clubhouse and managing a bullpen.

Most managers can't manage a bullpen. And Dusty was great when it came to managing the clubhouse. Now, Dave Martinez is good at it, too. He's not Matt Williams, who let the team get away from him. What will be interesting, and it will be a storyline, is what happens in spring training next year. because the club Davy in spring training this year, everything was laid back. You know, bringing in the camels.

Everything was fun. That was funny in March. Yes. It's hysterical. Now, there'll be pressure to be a hard-ass now come spring training next year. I'll be real curious how that plays out. Because you know in management, no matter what you manage, if you start out as the nice guy, it's hard to turn it on again.

it's easier to go from hard guy to nice guy than the other way around. Do you think they bailed on the season too early? I would argue yes. I would argue yes, because they were, you know, they were, they have enough talent that they've always been with these. They could have made a run. Yes. Yeah, they did.

They actually still could, but it'd be pretty hard. Although they took a doubleheader from the Cubs the other day. Yeah, and they have three games against Atlanta coming up in these games with Philadelphia. If they were to make a big run here over the next week, and all of a sudden they're only four and a half or five back, who knows? Yeah. But I think they bailed way too early. I can't stand at seven and a half back thinking you have no chance.

I mean, and that's another thing. The geek world out there, these idiots who sit in front of their computers and actually think they know baseball are saying with five and a half games out at the trading deadline. You've got to trade everybody. You've got to get prospects. Yeah, I think prospects are like gold bullion, you know? like everyone's going to wind up being, you know, Bryce Harper. You got five and a half out and you're going to raise the white flag?

What a gutless fan base. I totally agree with you on that. I couldn't believe all the talk about trading all away the pieces before the trade deadline. Although now after they started trading them after the trade deadline, it would have probably been smarter to do it before. One last question on the Nationals. Is Harper back next year or not? I haven't heard your recent opinion on this.

I don't think so. I don't see the learners paying him. him. I think he's going to go into free agency. What would be curious, though, is interesting. Here's a scenario. They look like they've got their outfield for the next four or five years sewn up. I mean, Juan Soto has been a tremendous surprise for them coming through so early. Victor Robles is back and healthy now.

Those guys are under control for the next six years. That's two-thirds of your outfield right there. and Adam Eaton, who's turned out to be a very good player, very valuable player, is under control for the next four years. So they have potentially a cheap, valuable, good outfield for the next four years or so. But what they need is starting pitching desperately. And there's not a lot of great free agent starters on the market next year, which means they may have to trade for one.

And if you could then – if you can sign Bryce Harper and trade Victor Robles, a guy that everybody would want, then you might be able to get a quality starter. They need another quality starter next year, and there's no obvious free agents that fit that bill. And that's one other thing I want to say. Yes. They weren't sellers at the trading deadline, but what's interesting is they weren't buyers either. They didn't make it. If they made a pitch for Cole Hamels or J.A. Hap, nobody knows about it.

They lost out on them. I don't know if they did. and what we don't know is what's happened before. If the learners told Rizzo, you can't add any payroll at the trading deadline because that's happened before. It has. I mean, all roads lead back to, man, the learners are cheap. And they have been since the day they arrived.

With that said, they pay players. Yes, they paid worth and they paid other players. They paid Scherzer. They seem to pay Scott Boris players. That's the guy who should go in the ring of honor. Scott Boris. By the way, I have it in a good authority. they did try to trade for Khalil Mack, but they didn't have enough draft picks to make that work.

Yeah. What a wrecking crew he was in his first game. We're going to talk a little of a Monday night football here shortly, but I did this segment with you, sort of, and I did it the last two years where I, you know me, my clock management and coaching blunder thing. It's time for this week's coaching blunders of the week. You're listening to the sports. Sports with Kevin Sheehan and Tom Levero. Just played his sports thing over and over again. Clock management gaffes.

Missed opportunities. It's Coach Sheehan's blunders of the week. I love it. Coach Sheen. Thanks, Doc. So there were several in the NFL this week. Bill O'Brien, the head coach of the Houston Texans, did you read about this or not about what happened at the end of the first half?

Because he was questioned by some chesty reporters afterwards about the clock management and calling timeouts at the end of the half. and if he blew it or not, and he said, well, that's not my responsibility. He said that after the game. Did he really? And then yesterday he came back and said, well, that is sort of my responsibility. That's the very definition of his responsibility. What happened was in a 14 to 6 New England lead game over Houston in Foxborough,

towards the end of the first half, Brady hits Grankowski down the seam for a ball that clearly, I think, if it had been reviewed, would have been ruled an incomplete pass. It was close. It was ruled a catch on the field. And in the final two minutes, it is the job of the booth to buzz down to the referees to say, hey, we got to look at that play on replay. But the Patriots being the Patriots, hurried up to the line of scrimmage quickly, as the clock was winding down in the first half, they got the snap off, and the play was never reviewed.

So the question to Bill O'Brien in the press conference afterwards was, when you saw it wasn't going to get buzzed, why didn't you use a timeout? It was a 30-yard-plus gain that put the Patriots into field goal range in a 14-6 game. And just as a side note real quickly, Houston's defense is going to be really good this year. It was really good two years ago. It's going to be really good again this year. They are, when they're healthy with J.J. Watt, Merciless, and that whole gang, they're a really good defense.

Anyway, I digress. Back to what happened. So Bill O'Brien made the comment after the game. That's not my job to call that timeout. And what he was really referring to was it's the job of the booth in the final two minutes to get a replay in. But they didn't. If he had called time out, it would have given the booth more time to look at it and say, hey, we got to go back and overturn this last play and put the ball back 30 yards into New England territory.

He didn't do it. The Patriots went on to score a touchdown and pretty much put the game away at half. halftime 21 to 6. Now, they came back and they made it a one touchdown game in the final minute of the game. But that was a coaching blunder. Bill O'Brien should have seen as the Patriots were hurrying up, seeing that the booth was not going to review the play. There was no risk at that point for him to use a timeout on defense. It wasn't going to save New England any time.

They were going quickly. They were going to snap it quickly. If he calls the time out there, they go to replay and the play. potentially is overturned, and it's a really good move by him. Another guy from the Bill Belichick coaching tree who hasn't really done that well. I mean, the Belichick coaching tree has basically been, you know, a bush without leaves. Yeah, but the Parcell's coaching tree with Belichick and Coughlin and Peyton. Yes, has done very well.

He's done very well. I'm not, actually, I don't mind Bill O'Brien. I know a lot of people that don't think he's very good. I actually, you know, that team's been in the playoffs without a quarterback multiple times over the last few years. Deshawn Watson had a rough outing in his first game after, you know, blowing out his knee last year. I think that team's got a chance to be a good team this year. A couple of other sort of coaching blunders for the week. Seattle was playing Denver out at mile high.

And this was late in the first half in a 1710 game. Denver was leading the game. Seattle's driving Tommy about 40 seconds to go in the first half. They're near midfield. And Russell Wilson trying to make a play gets sacked for minus 22 yards. That's a big sack. All the way back to the 18-yard line. And there are 30 seconds left when the play ended.

It's third and 23, I think, at that point for Seattle. And Seattle did the right thing, which is we're not going to run another play here. Let's see if Denver uses a timeout. because we just took a big loss, and now our chances of actually scoring of diminished. And Vance Joseph, the head coach of the Broncos, that's his name, right? Yes, James Joseph? Yes, it is. He just let 30 seconds run off the clock.

That drives you nuts, doesn't it? Drives me nuts. And coaches do it all the time. All the time. Jay Gruden has done it lots of times. Jay Gruden's done a lot of things, a lot of times. But how you let, when you've got third and 23 and you've got the team backed up inside their own 20-yard line, 30 seconds go off the clock at the end of the half.

If they call a timeout there, all right, and they run a third and 23 play, they had another time after that. They call time out. They force them to punt from their own five-yard line. Plenty of time. By the way, it's mile-high stadium. You get, you know, you fair catch the ball at the 40. One completion, and you kick a long field goal.

You can kick long field goals out there. What's the possibility since a lot of coaches fall? Did somebody you'll hire me to do this? No, no, I know that. All they got to do is listen to you. and that's a done deal. But what's the possibility that these coaches can't wait to get into the locker room at halftime to do their new plays for the second half?

To draw them up? Yeah, and they just don't want to be bothered with the last 30 seconds of the half. You know what? When it comes to managing the clock as a head coach or whomever has the responsibility, your number one goal should be to use your timeouts and use the clock to increase the number of plays and possessions you have in the game. Because the more plays you have, the more possessions you have, the more chances you have to score.

And Tommy, 75% of the teams in the NFL don't understand that simple concept, which is why they fail in a position like that. Denver won the game. So nobody's going to blame Vance Joseph for anything. They won the game, but they missed out on an opportunity to have a chance for at least a field goal attempt at the end of the first half. That's another possession and another scoring opportunity that he just said, let's let the clock run out and let's go in because I've got some plays I want to drop.

I just think they can't wait to get in the locker room. Exactly. There were a couple of others, nothing major. Minnesota in Kirk's debut, he looked good. Yes, he did. He looked really good. If you haven't seen any of Kirk's highlights, he threw two beautiful touchdown passes, one to Diggs, one to Rudolph.

They took the foot off the pedal, Zimmer did in the second half. So Kirk was like at one point, he was 20 of 28 or something for 244 yards, and then they stopped throwing it in the fourth quarter with the lead. But at the end of the first half, oh, one other quick thing about Minnesota, their offensive lines are a major problem right now.

They've lost some starters, and it is a sieve. He's being bum rushed on every single play. I don't know how good the 49er defense is, but they got pressure on almost every throw in that game. But towards the end of the first half, Minnesota, with the lead in the game at the time, had the ball at the San Francisco 40-yard line with plenty of time, 40 seconds to go. So if you're at the end of a half with 40 seconds to go and you've got the ball at the other team's 40-yard line,

first of all, you should be thinking touchdown. You're going to get in field goal range more times than not, but you should be thinking aggressively touchdown. Well, on the next play, They threw a little screen because he got rushed real quickly. It was a checkdown. It wasn't a screen to Dalvin Cook, who then proceeded to run backwards. And they lost seven yards on the play. The play ended with 28 seconds left, and they just let the clock run. They went hurry up.

But they let the clock run. And they took a snap with seven seconds left, and it was an incomplete pass. It left him with like six seconds left. They had to throw a Hail Mary. You got to take the time out right. away. You can control how fast you can go offensively with 28 seconds to go based on circumstance. They should have called the timeout in 28 seconds to go. They would have been able to run one, two or three plays to get the ball into field roll range. So that was a bad clock

management blunder as well. Overall, I think the Seattle thing was the most frustrating thing, watching Vance Joseph just stand on the sideline, completely clueless, happy as defense had sacked Russell Wilson for a 22-yard loss, and he just let a field goal opportunity, basically wind out. 30 seconds just wound off the clock. He's sitting there thinking, ice cream. Got to get that half-time ice cream. It's waiting for us in the locker room.

And so this will be, trust me, there will be worse as we go through the season. And please go ahead and tweet me at Kevin S.D.C. Actually, it's not, it's at Kevin Shee in D.C. now. I'm sorry. My new Twitter handle is at Kevin Sheehan, D.C. It's not at Kevin S980 anymore. But the great thing is, if you go to Kevin S980, it just goes

to Kevin SDC, right? How do I know? I don't know. You were much better at that stuff than I was. Tommy's got some thoughts on Colin Kaepernick. We're going to get to that. I wanted to get to some Monday night football talk from last night. Sam Darnold, on his first throw, as a professional

quarterback, was picked off as he threw across the field, which is a no-no. got returned for a touchdown, his first NFL throws a pick six, and then he came back, and I thought watching, did you watch the Jet Lion game last night? I watched a lot of it. I thought he looked great. Fabulous.

I thought he looked so good. Meantime, Matt Stafford threw four interceptions and got the snot beat out of him all night long by the jet defense, which Todd Bowles, I got into an argument with my other show host of the last two and a half, years over and over again about Todd Bulls. I said if he became available and they fired Jay Gruden, I would hire Todd Bulls. And I would definitely hire Todd Bulls to be the defensive coordinator here if the Jets fired him. They were smart enough to keep him. He's a good coach. He's a good coach and they haven't had players. Now all of a sudden they're starting to build players. And if they have the

quarterback in Darnold, the Jets could be one of those surprised teams. I mean, it's a rookie quarterback situation. And listen, they're probably they're playing in the division with New England, Which never works out well for anybody. Except when it has, it's been the Jets who have been their primary competitor, but that was more under sort of Rex Ryan in those years. But watching Sam Darnold bounce back from that in his rookie first game as an NFL quarterback, I thought was really impressive. I thought he and the Jets in a game on the road against a Detroit team that's fairly talented

really looked good last night. I mean, but poor Detroit, if you're at Detroit, Detroit Lion fan. You haven't won in 60 years. I mean, in 1957, I think, was the last time they won. I mean, and they haven't even gotten a sniff, hardly anything. And I'm sure they thought with Matt Stafford being their quarterback, they were going to have, you know, this era of excellence. They have talent on that team. And it's Matt Patricia's first game. Oh, and seven, all of the first year head coaches. Yes. Oh, and seven in week one. Another Belichick coaching tree guy. Including both last night with John Gruden and Matt Patricia in their first games.

Yeah, Detroit's been one of those teams under Matt Stafford. I like Matt Stafford. I remember we've had this debate before either you and I or me and others coolly about Stafford or Cousins. And I always said, as much as I love Kirk Cousins, I would have taken Matt Stafford. To me, he was much more of a gamer, like more of a competitor. You know what's interesting about that division? They've got to be the highest paid quarterback division in football. I mean, between Matt Stafford.

Well, Cousins and Rogers. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of money being paid for quarterbacks in three of those teams. Anyway, Darnold's performance was great. And then last night, the Raiders fell apart in the second half against a team that looks like, you know, on paper, the Rams could be an NFC championship contender under Sean McGrath. I think they are absolutely the NFC championship contender.

All right. You wrote a column about Colin Kaepernick. You want to just basically summarize what you wrote. It's in the Washington Times. Tommy, of course, still writes a column with the Washington Times. Three times a week. Monday, Wednesdays, Fridays. On WJFK 1067, The Fan, with Chad on Wednesdays and with Andy on the Saturday morning show.

Well, basically, it was a reaction to the Nike deal. And I wondered if Nike would be marketing a set of Colin Kaepernick coppig socks, basically. The socks that he wore a couple years ago at its 49ers practice that depicted cops as pigs. See, this is a moment nobody wants to remember. A moment that people would like to separate from the National Anthem debate and the kneeling is that he, and he basically tried to defend it later on on Instagram.

He said he was only talking about bad cops. You know, but, I mean, that was a step too far. I mean, that's basically a slur to the whole profession of police officers and a totally different issue than kneeling. for the national anthem, and they just as soon that would go away. But it's there for everyone to see. To me, it kind of captures the hypocrisy and the confusion of the national anthem debate. My whole point was the zealots on both sides have been unfair to each other.

The players who are kneeling during a national anthem are not trying to disrespect the anthem. They're trying to protest. what you'd be blind not to see is a police brutality issue for people of color and also a criminal justice issue. But you'd have to be deaf not to hear some of the people who are offended by it

by saying, yeah, I know, but the flag and the anthem means something different to me. It means something personal to me, something personal to somebody in my family. And not everybody who is against the protest is a racist. Just like not everybody who is a racist.

Just like not everybody who is doing the protest is a traitor, you know, and I just think they picked the wrong issue to try to get their message across because it means different things to different people. And here we are two years into it, more than half the country is still offended by it, and what do people do? They get mad that their message isn't getting across. In the communications business, if your message is not being heard, then you're the problem, not the audience. And that's basically what happened here. And another thing I don't get, I didn't bring up in the column.

These guys, every week in NFL locker rooms, you have reporters walking around with notebooks and microphones just begging for somebody to talk to them. Why don't these guys go off during the week? Why don't these guys in every city, you know, have a guy, give his spiel about what's wrong with the criminal justice system in this country? And newspapers will write it. People will put it on the radio.

They have access to media every week. can you never hear a peep from any of them? It would be more impactful to do that, rather than during an anthem that nobody actually even sees on TV more times than that. And again, it's a confusing message. And all it did was basically give a president of the United States an issue he thinks is a win and a shoe company that's accused of human rights abuses a marketing campaign. That's basically what they accomplished.

You're far too reasonable in thinking about this, that there's actually, you know, there's reasonable debates from both sides. There's reasonable discussion on both sides. That's the thing that's bothered me about this from the get-go is, you know, don't you understand that people are, that your message that you're trying to get through is being masked by the means in which you're trying to get the message through, to your point, communication. If your message isn't being communicated well, that's on you.

Yes. And so there were so many other ways to sort of get that message out for Colin Kaepernick and all of the players since. And at the same time, you know, if you're a reasonable person, okay, I understand what your message is. By the way, I knew about this. It's a big news story at least a half dozen times a year. By the way, last night in Dallas.

Yes. Or recently in Dallas. Another example of it potentially. But don't you understand that if you do this, there are people out there that this particular anthem and the way in which you're trying to bring sort of attention to this issue is it's a distraction to them. They can't get through the lack of patriotism, the lack of nationalism in their own mind from their own perspective, which is not unreasonable. No. It's not an unreasonable perspective. It doesn't mean you're a bigot.

It doesn't mean you're racist. It doesn't mean you're a perspective. If somebody doesn't respect the anthem or the flag, and that's the perception of it, it doesn't make it racist. Just like the people who are trying to bring attention to this very serious issue, there is a reasonable understanding of what they're trying to communicate. But to your point, it hasn't been communicated well because the message has been totally masked by the way in which they've tried to be. bring attention to it, which is why your point of, why not bringing it up during the week? You've got multiple reporters in your locker room. Why not making it an issue during the week where a columnist could write something about Player X and his feelings about the way young

African-American men are being treated by police? Instead of hiding in the trainer's room and not talking to reporters, say something. Yeah. The other thing, two things. One, on Kaepernick, I don't have any problem. I don't believe. believe it's collusion. Maybe you do. I don't think it's intentional collusion. I think it's one-off business decisions. If you don't believe he's a starting quarterback for you on your team, which, by the way, he's not one of the best 32 quarterbacks in the league. You can easily make that case. I think it's harder to make the case that he's not one of the best 64. I do think he's good enough to be a backup quarterback in the NFL. But if you are a standalone NFL team and you have to

make the decision of signing him to be a backup quarterback, knowing what that means from a business perspective, whether it's right or wrong, we've already gone through that. It's part of the discussion. Many people think, many people think it's wrong and so it could impact your business in a negative way. Why would you do it? Like you always say, the juice has to be worth the squeezing. And in this particular case, I don't know why it would be, especially in many NFL markets. You know, the demographics of every NFL market are different. You know, it's Kansas City is going to be different than New York. You know, St. Louis, St. Louis isn't an NFL market anymore. Minneapolis is going to be different than Miami. Houston's going to be different than Miami.

Right. So, you know, every team, I don't personally believe it's been league-wide owner collusion. Do you? I don't know. I could tell you. another thing about the, to bring back the, the, uh, pig socks that Kaepernick wore, I think that's more of an issue, that has been more of an issue for the NFL teams than, than the anthem. And I'll tell you why, because all, yes, because all these teams have to do business with police every Sunday. From a security stamp. Yes, they have to, they have to, they have to employ these police departments.

They have to work with these police departments. And they haven't forgot because the FOP, the national fraternal order of police, issued a statement in reaction to the Nike campaign that included the words basically that included the reference to pigs that Kaepernick made. They have not forgotten. Say that again, that was a recent thing from the pitch.

No words, the Fraternal Order Police and the National Police Union. Big Union. Basically issued a statement in reaction to the Nike campaign for Kaepernick that included in their statement a reference to Kaepernick wearing the pig socks. That was two years ago.

They haven't forgotten that. And I think that, I think any team that signs him is going to have a real problem with their local police department, whether right or wrong, that's going to be a problem. And this gets to sort of the business of these decisions. And they're not the only union. They're not the only group that the NFL may actually fear sort of losing. With that, all that said, okay, the NFL has handled this so poor. Oh. The fact that they put out this policy, so-called policy, it was a football.

policy and they've backed off it. The disorganization on this issue from the jump is really, it's an illustration of how this particular commissioner has no sense, no public relations sense whatsoever. He hasn't in so many issues, whether it was the Tom Brady, deflategate thing, whether it was Ray Rice. He misses the boat on public relations at every opportunity. He does. But I'm going to give him this amount of rope. On an issue like this... It's too complex? It's too difficult to rein in all your owners.

You know, some of who are very close to Donald Trump. Like Stephen Ross is very close to Donald Trump, the owner of the dolphins. Jerry Jones is close to Donald Trump. And Goodell is not Tagliaboo or Roselle where basically he can command the owners. It's the other way around. So even if Goodell wanted to do something, thing to on this issue. I don't think he could rein in all the owners. I think, look, right here in Washington, Dan Snyder, according to a big ESPN story about a year ago, complained about the issue

for him here with so many defense department people in the Washington area, so many military people who are fans. It's a more particular issue for him here than it is anywhere else. So I just don't think, I'm trying to defend him that it would be difficult to rain. He doesn't have the level of respect to force the owners to do the right thing. I don't think it's been an easy issue. I don't think it's been an easy issue. I think it's very complex. With that said, there's been no decisiveness on this issue,

and there's been a lot of waffling on the issue. That's not a good direction to head in. Perhaps you're right, it's been because of sort of the management of these 32 different owners and personalities and agendas, and maybe that's a reason. But they should have been on this, from the get-go. You know, free speech does not mean free of consequence, and that should have been

somehow communicated to all of these players by all of these owners from the very beginning. I don't think they saw it coming. And by the way, when I say they didn't see it coming, I don't even know what we're really talking about in terms of seeing it coming, because you know what? Last year, if you recall, when the weather got colder and the games got bigger, the ratings started to climb again. And some of the highest rate of games in recent memory were last year. You a preseason game this year that was the highest rate of preseason game on Fox in years. Now, I know the Thursday night game was down 13% in the TV ratings, the Eagles Falcons game, but it was also delayed by an hour, which meant that it ended much later on the East Coast.

There were a lot of potential reasons there. I guess my point is, ultimately, I don't, I think still the significant majority use the NFL as a life diversion, and they don't care about the anthem issue at all. I think you're right. That was fun today. You know what? Let's do it again Thursday. Let's do it again every Tuesday and Thursday. Okay.

Catch Tommy tomorrow on the fan and then Saturday morning with Andy. Tommy and I are going to do this every Tuesday and Thursday, hopefully forever, and maybe it'll just increase by days. But that's going to be partly up to him because he's the one that left the show two and a half years ago. Yeah, listen to this. You'll get that story someday. Oh, you. Really? Oh, really? Is there going to be a book? I enjoyed this. It was so much fun. I'll see you on Thursday.

Same here, boss. Thanks to Mark Stern. Thanks to Aaron Oster. Am I allowed to thank Aaron yet? Thanks to Paul Gorgie, who showed up is going to try to sell this thing. If you're interested, contact me on Twitter. Interested, by the way, in spending money on this podcast. That's what we want to find out from advertisers all around town. Back tomorrow, it's the Kevin Sheehan show, but really it's a Fix Tuesday. Go to the kevin shian show.com website. You can listen to any of the past episodes.