The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sports Fix Hodgepodge

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

Kevin and Thom discussed/argued/debated about sports gambling and the NFL.Then it was a jumble of WFT, the NFL, Dwayne Haskins, and Charlie Watts. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, the podcast today brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my bonus code, Kevin, D.C.

They'll match your first ever deposit, dollar for dollar. They're going to double your first deposit if you haven't made one there before at mybooky. So if you deposit 300 bucks, you'll have $600 in your account to play with. We are two weeks away, Tommy. from Tampa Bay hosting the Dallas Cowboys. So get ready for that. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. Tommy's with me today from Bethany Beach.

This is an interesting football year coming up because it's the first full exposure to legalized sports betting in the NFL. Right. I mean, in terms of partnerships and stuff like that, you know, the NFL is in the betting business now. Yeah, but haven't you felt that everything sort of changed when the legalization of sports betting went through, you know, state-by-state issue? No, no, no, no. In terms of the unbelievable amount of discussion about it, just increased significantly three, four years ago whenever it was? All the deals have been made.

in the past six months between the leagues and their betting partners. Right. So that's the big change. Okay, so what does that mean? What do you think that means? Well, I think we're going to see it. I think we're going to see an astronomical amount of money. What, bet on the sport?

Yeah. Yes. Okay. There's been an astronomical amount bet on the sport forever. How much more? I know that. I think it'll be. significantly higher. I don't know what the total is now, but I'll bet you it's 10 to 20% higher than that.

Look, there was a way in which the sports leagues were going to benefit significantly from legalized sports betting. The primary way was going to be with the increase of interest that would increase the audience size, which would ultimately increase the television deals. I think we, seen some of that, you know, in the recent TV deals that were cut. Remember, all of these sports wanted some sort of fee from all of these companies. They called it, I think, an integrity fee, if my memory serves me correctly. And as you know, I mocked that because the integrity of sports betting has actually been kept by places like legalized sports betting in Las Vegas. you know, over the years. The leagues have had no idea what's been going on. The only way to

protect the integrity of the games is for the people who are accepting these bets to pick up on what's going on and to let the league know. And that has happened in college sports and pro sports, primarily college sports in the past. And, you know, the legalized entities that are now providing it and, you know, Las Vegas for years, they laughed in the face of these sports leagues asking for an integrity fee. First of all, the integrity fee would then have to be passed on to the consumer in a major league way that would be painful, actually. Look, legalized sports betting already, Tommy, is pretty damn expensive. You know, and I am here promoting, you know, on radio and on podcast a bunch of spots, but I can tell you this, I'm not promoting one of the hyper-expensive places.

I'm promoting, like my bookie, is a total in the window of what's called reasonable in terms of price. And it's a familiar price that people are used to who have bet before. The naive, new better has been taken advantage of to a certain degree with pricing. Okay. Just so you know. This is what I mean. This is what I mean. And this is in Washington Post a day ago.

Okay. in April, the league announced Cesar's, Draft Kings, and Fanduel as its official betting partner. For a league that three years earlier didn't want anything to do with gambling,

that's a huge step. They expect to make $270 million in revenue this year from their sports betting and gambling deals. And according to an executive president with the NFL, you can definitely see the market

grow in a $1 billion plus of league opportunity over this decade. Advertising deals you're talking about with the league. Well, but they didn't, I mean, you're advertising a product that the league claimed didn't exist. Yeah, but what I'm saying is... What happened in the... We're about to enter a different era in sports betting right now. Right. I don't know why you can't see that.

No, no, no, no. It's not that I don't see it. I've seen it coming, period, over the last couple of years. years. But we're talking about two different things. You're talking about the NFL running ads for sports books that sports books are paying for like a normal advertiser, like Miller Lightwood in the past. That's happening more and more and it's increasing the ad dollars for the league. Is that what you're referring to? Yes. Okay. Well, that's been slowly building here for the last couple of years. That's one way in which these sports leagues are benefiting from the legalization

of sports spending and the acceptance of it. The acceptance of allowing these people to buy ad time on games and anything else that's league related. What the league initially wanted was a lot more than just this. They wanted, in addition to, by the way, the increased interest in the game, which is what also legalized sports betting is providing, is more people interested, more viewers, and able to leverage that into bigger television deals, etc. The league also wanted an integrity fee, which the sports books all pushed back on,

and then the league basically gave up on it because they realized what a ridiculous ask it was. But if you're talking about, like, the ad dollars going up and this is going to be an all-time, yeah, I would imagine this year's going to be the number one year in terms of draft kings and bed MGM and all the legalized sports books buying ads on sports products. Of course, that was coming too, but that'll just continue to get bigger and bigger, I would assume. Okay. Okay, what?

Okay. You seem to think that I was like, you know, not recognizing that the NFL and other leagues are, benefiting from legalized sports betting. Of course I realize that. No, I didn't say that. I just say this winter, this off season, there was a dramatic change in the NFL

and sports betting. What was that change? You haven't been specific. They entered into actual partnerships with sportsbooks. Add sports. A league that had nothing to do with sports betting. What are the partnerships? I just told them to you.

Tell me, again. Draft King, Caesars, and Fand pool. No, what are the sports betting partners? What's the nature of those relationships?

I'm not sure of the details. I'm looking for it. It will also include eventually probably by 2022 sports books in stadium. Of course, but we've sort of seen

seeing that coming here recently. I mean, we've had our NBA team put a sports book in their arena. Yes, but the NFL and the NBA are two different things. Okay. The relationship, look, I'm asking you, you're the one that has recent information. I didn't read any sports gambling story in the post, especially if it was written by a couple of the people that have been covering this because I don't think they know anything about it.

But that's beside the point. I would guess that the significant increase in revenue for the league is through accepting advertising on the networks being able to. to accept advertising from draft kings and fan duel and all the big ones that are now, you know, in the middle of a game, we're going to see more spots for these ads. That would be the big change, but it's not even that big of a change because we've seen it a little bit coming. We've certainly seen it maybe not in the middle of an NFL Sunday, although I don't know, it seems like we have for a couple of years now.

But if you're telling me that there's like a big difference this year because of, legalized sports betting unless it's because there are more states on board and more coming. Okay, that makes sense. But my God, I mean, the networks like ESPN and CBS and Fox and NBC, they have, you know, they went head first into discussing gambling content once the legalization of sports betting came in the NFL and all these other sports leagues started to relax some of their restrictions or requests on gambling discussion. We see it now on crawls.

We see it in games. We see, you know, we see alternate channels for, you know, in-game betting. I mean, that's something that also Ted and what's the name of their company, Monumental? Is it Monumental or Monument? Monumental. That's something they were running on like an alternate channel on,

you know, the alternate NBC Sports Channel was like in-game betting odds. Anyway, sorry. I didn't mean to open the show by shooting down something that you thought was big and you might be right. Not necessarily something that's big. I meant something that is big and new, some big new news. I mean, if it's just that they're spending more in the league's making more off of their ads and sponsorship deals and their network partners are making more. I just think we've seen the build to that.

But anyway, I'll read the story. I'll read the story. What did you say, $250 million of new revenue this year? $270 million this year. $270 million in what? New revenue you're saying from legalized sports betting. My guess is that a lot of that comes through, you know, these ad partnerships and sponsorships with the league, you know, picking certain ones or maybe

even teams picking certain ones. I thought that had started earlier. I know it started with the networks earlier. It seemed to, anyway. Can I just turn this into just a slightly larger conversation? I don't know what the data says. I am very interested to see what the data says with respect to the increase in sports gambling, state by state. I mean, going into the states that have legalized it to see what their projections were in terms of overall handle, revenue. It's really handle, and then you get to like a net revenue number, what they take after, you know, wins and losses and fees and everything else.

I'd love to see where they are versus where they projected to be. Because from the very beginning, I said to you that I think this is going to be really big in some places. And in other places, it's going to be very disappointing. And I know that the early, look, we had a pandemic. So, you know, where people were forced to go to a physical location to place bets, obviously 2020 was majorly impacted. We now have, you know, apps and the ability to bet via an app. or a website without having to go to a physical location. That was crucial.

Early on, I said that was an absolute must. But the next big thing is somehow figuring out Tommy a way to allow people to bet on credit. The people who have been betting for long before the discussion even became a discussion about legalization of sports, betting. They've been betting on credit. They don't go to their bookie and give them $500, or $550, or let's just call it $110 before they make a $100 bet. You have to do that in Vegas where it was legal, but most of the money that was bet was bet illegally on credit. So you picked up the phone in the old days or you've been on a website in more recent years, and you've wagered and you've had credit. So you don't have to come up with the cash before you wager.

And that's a big deal. And people that have been betting illegally bet much bigger because of it and ultimately probably lose a lot more too. By the way, there's a collection issue. There's always been a collection issue. I can remember many stories about certain kinds of collections back in the old days for people who weren't paying. But I think people who are taking advantage of legalized betting are people who haven't really had access to betting anymore, which means two things, three things.

One, they're probably not going to be a large volume better on average. They're going to be much smaller in terms of what they wager on a per-game basis, per-unit basis, than people who are have been betting illegally. Number two, another deterrent to that is no credit. So you don't really have the opportunity necessarily to bet the way you want because you got to put the money up, whether it's by credit card or by cash or in some other way at a sports book, a legal sports book. And thirdly, they'll figure this out at some point, but the new sports books in these states are taking advantage of these first-time betters. who haven't bet before and now have access to it for the first time.

And the best example I can give you is if you go to some of these legalized sports betting sites for states, if you lose, just say on a straight bet on the, on Washington, Saturday night against the Ravens plus four, instead of losing $110 on a hundred and a hundred dollar bet, you're going to lose like a hundred and twenty-five. Like they're charging not a 10% Vig or fee. They're charging between 20 and 25%. Wow. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. There is, I'm not going to get into the names. I have not done spots for one of them, except for reeds that were stationed wide early on. But it is so outrageous. And, you know, there are people who now have access to betting that have never bet before. that haven't really figured that part out.

By the way, part of the expense in doing this is, you know, they're building these places, these physical locations to bet, and they want bigger margins out of it. And they're not going to end up with the same-sized handle that an illegal bookmaker will end up having or that Vegas will end up having because the bet sizes are different. So if you're collecting, you know, 10, 10, percent on a $100 bet, where an illegal bookie is taking 10 percent on an average of a $500

bet, the illegal bookie's making more. So the legal book needs to up their Vig, their fee. And I've seen a lot of that. I will tell you this, I haven't seen a lot of it discussed or written about a little bit here and there, but betters, Tommy, people who have experienced this, experience in this, they know. Like right now, there's no chance you could get me to go bet with a legal sports book in terms of the number one legal sports book per city or estate. It's just too expensive. It sounds like it to me. I mean, but they're counting on the uneducated and the inexperience. And they do have a higher cost structure. And they have a higher cost structure, a need to get to a margin level on probably a much lower average handle.

These, by the way, I don't know any of this to be fact. The only thing that I've stated that I know is fact is pricing. A lot of these legal state sports books are much more expensive than what you would pay in Vegas offshore illegally or with, you know, a guy locally. much more expensive. That's why, you know, when I talk about my bookie, I'm like, look, if you have a shop already where you're betting, you should have multiple shops.

You should be shopping, point spreads, lines, and pricing. Now, my bookie's got very fair pricing and outstanding, you know, numbers. They are, it's a very fair situation. Like, I can just pull up right now. Let me get the NFL week one odds. Yeah, I mean, right now you can bet Buffalo laying seven at plus 100, even money. You're not paying a price on a loss. Most of them are all minus 110s, minus 105s.

And on key numbers, like three, sevens and tens, when you take, you know, the underdog in those situations, you will probably have to lay minus 112, minus 115. But that's pretty standard across the board. And sometimes when you lay minus two and a half and you want the favorite, you'll have to lay a higher price. But on all the, most of these are minus one-tens. If I were to go to a certain sportsbook legal right now in a state, on a loss, I'd have to pay one, you know, like the Buccaneers, Jesus, they're minus eight right now. They've gone all the way up to minus eight.

I'd have to pay at a legal state sports book minus. minus 125 on a loss, minus 120. I've seen him as high as minus 130, minus 135. And look, for the guy that's betting 10 bucks on a game because he's never bet before and he's excited and he's able to do it for the first time and he's betting $10. Like, you know, okay, he loses 15 instead of 11.

It's not that big of a deal. But when you get up to where you're betting, you know, hundreds of dollars a game, it adds up. adds up big time over the course of the year if you're paying minus 120 on a loss consistently or minus 125 on a loss consistently. So anyway, sports betting. It's a big deal now. It's a much bigger deal for more people.

I wonder if we'll ever get down to the sports book. What do you think? At Capital One? Yeah. I have been told that it's very nice. I think, well, I don't think. I know one of my sons went down to it. It was, because it just opened recently, right?

It's been in the last couple of months because I want to say that he went down there and it may have been for a game. Was it open in time for basketball season? In hockey, I forget. But he said it was very nice. Like it was well done. And he's been in a sports book in Vegas. So he knows what a really good.

I'll tell you, you know who's got a. really good sports book is Hollywood Sports Casino in Charleston. I've been there. I was there that the day it opened. Yeah, it's outstanding. They did a great job with that. Now, Maryland doesn't have legalized sports betting yet, but I would imagine when they do, and it'll be soon, that the MGM will have a huge sports book, I would imagine. I would think so. Kevin and Tom's sports book at the MGM. There's only one side to be on in betting, Tommy.

It's taking the bets. That's the best side to be on. If you're on that side, and by the way, if you're like, like this, these legal, now, again, I think the revenue for some states is much less than what they projected. And I bet in places, you know, with real population density and real sports fans. You know, New York, Philly. I'm sure they're doing well the legalized sports books. But I bet in some places the results so far have been disappointing,

but I don't even know how they would measure that based on the year that we've had, you know. But maybe Ted will invite us down to do the podcast that's a sports book. You think he? I don't think he will. I think he would. You know what he could. Ted's an open kind of guy? He could take some of, you know, his brilliant friends,

that have all the analytics and all the data to take down the sports book that, by the way, you know, he's put into his arena. He can put some of those people on our podcast. I'd love to talk to those people. In fact, I would offer better pricing for their bets. I would take all of their action. Of course, I can't do it legally, but I would take all of their action and give them a break on the fee. I'd charge them, you know, minus 110, minus 105 to get their action.

That's big of you. It is big of me. Anyway, this wasn't the anticipated start to the show. I wanted to mention to you that Jason Wright was on Pat McAfee's XM Series show, which is the show on XM Series that actually precedes Mad Dog and his show, which I listen to. I do. I listen to that a lot.

And McAfee, I mentioned this last year, has a weekly set. segment with Aaron Rogers, which was really good last year, especially during the pandemic to listen to Rogers talk about football during the pandemic. And he's good friends, I guess, with Rogers. And A.J. Hawke, who played with the Packers, was also an Aaron Rogers fan. He's part of the show. Anyway, Jason Wright was on the show the other day. As an aside, Pat McAfee tweeted out last night or yesterday that he's got COVID. And he held up a temperature reader that said 104.4.4.4. He was fully vaccinated. He tweeted out fully vaxed, very positive, out indefinitely.

And he held up, I guess, proof of his vaccination. And then... That's a serious symptom. And then 104 and a half degree fever. Yeah, well, I mean... And we've been led to believe that if you're vaccinated, you're not going to get that many strong symptoms. 104, I'd be a little worried. Yeah, I would too. Now, you know, all the data suggests that if you're fully vaccinated, that obviously you can still get the virus, but your chances are even lower than they used to be without a vaccination that you'll ever get legitimately sick and hospitalized. And those numbers are bearing out, by the way. Now, who knows they might change with another variant. Who the F knows?

McAfee's got COVID, but that's not why I brought up Pat McAfee. I brought him up because Jason Wright was on his program. And there were a couple of things that he said. Number one is that he said that they're going to reveal the new name and the new brand, etc. With the celebration of the 90th year of the franchise, 19th year of the franchise. 1932 Tommy Boston, so early 2020 will be 90 years of the franchise. And then he said something else that was pretty interesting.

He was asked about, you know, if he's worried about the name getting out. By the way, I don't know if I told you this the other day, but when we talked about, you know, the making of the brand where they were Jason Wright bleeped out, you know, they covered up the three names that he gave Ron Rivera and Martin Mayhew, remember from last week? Yes. So Ben Standing, he's like, do you really think he was saying one of the three names? And I'm like, I don't know.

And he said, well, think about it. There's a camera person, at least in the room, maybe a couple of other people. They don't want anybody to know where they are. He probably gave three names that aren't in the running at all. And then to some extent, he sort of confirmed that. He confirmed that on this Pat McAfee show when he, answered about the concern that it'll get out. And he said, quote, there's a whole lot of misdirection that needs to be done here to not really give away where we're going, which is the

flip side of transparency. You know, you can only be so transparent to not shoot yourself in the damn foot. So yeah, we're going to have to throw some misdirection out there. But honestly, what I'm more petrified of is going out there with a name and then being in trademark cordel for three years because we didn't do our homework. I don't have time for that. So that's what I'm more worried about. So he did sort of confirm one of the reasons that it's a delay. They really don't want to get caught with their pants around their ankles on a trademark issue or somebody saying, oh, in 1857, that name meant this.

They can't get caught with that. But him admitting to the whole misdirection thing, you know, sort of plays into that making of a brand. I mean, they don't want anybody to know. And I've been asked many times about my comment, borderline report that I know they are going to have a name. Like, it's not going to be Washington-centric. I've been told that from a very good source, that it's not going to be Washington-centric. It's not going to be Washington FC. It's not going to be Washington football team or Washington Football Club.

It's going to be the Washington somethings, which to me actually makes sense, too, to go along with the source that told me this. And then the other thing I've been told is they have the name. You know, they do have a plan B and plan C this time in the event that, you know, somebody, you know, comes out of the woodwork with some sort of finding from, you know, about the true meaning of the word. Can you imagine being in that position with having something that seems utterly benign and has been tested as benign? And then all of a sudden, somebody finds something from the year 16, 17, where they use this word in a completely different way that ends up being insensitive, whatever. But, you know, what I would say is stop talking about all this. Let the games, which start in two weeks, let's get going with the season,

and stop dropping hints, whether they're misdirections or not. I'm tired of it. I'm annoyed by it. I mean, I put that poll out a few weeks ago. I'm annoyed by all of it. I'm annoyed by it, too, but I think that it generates a lot of interest. A lot of people are interested. I think he's doing his job.

You know, keeping the fire stoked. It's the playbook right now for a new branding campaign for whatever the product is. It's a, it's the thing where, you know, we talked about this recently, where keeping your customer base in the loop as to how you're going about it and how, you know, at each turn, updating them and making them feel super included, will lessen the shock of it when you roll it out. I don't think it is going to lessen the shock of it when they roll it out. I think whatever it is, it doesn't matter.

It's going to be unbelievably polarizing. That's a best case for them polarizing. Well, do you think how the team's playing will have an impact on the reaction to the name? It certainly wouldn't hurt if they're coming off in NFC championship overtime loss to the Packers after beating the Cowboys in the divisional round and, you know, the Rams in the wildcard round. certainly wouldn't hurt after a 12 and 5 season or an 11 and 6 season. And the other way around too. And the other way around.

If it's disappointing season, people will be ready to jump on and rip them for the name. No doubt. That'll happen too. So there were a couple of comments yesterday from Jack Del Rio that I wanted to play. Also, Landing Collins said something. We've got other things to get to as well. There was a big announcement yesterday at ESPN. We'll get to all that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

Washington and Baltimore tomorrow night in the final preseason game of the summer. Thankfully, God, you know, when it ends Saturday night, Tommy, there's not a whole other week before another game. It's going to be so nice. So I am definitely happy about that. Hopefully this eventually gets cut down to two, but the three is pretty good. But Rivera did tell Scott Abraham from Channel 7 that they're not more likely than not going to play the starters for very much. So this whole, you know, treating it like a regular season week was all about the preparation for it,

not the actual playing of the games. But there were a couple of things yesterday. Rivera spoke, Jack Del Rio spoke. and Landing Collins spoke. And I wanted to play some of the sound for you because I wanted to play, first of all, this quick Ron Rivera bite about using five defensive linemen,

which is something Ben Standing at the very beginning of training camp. It was either on the podcast or the radio show, and I know he wrote about this on The Athletic as well, talked about seeing Washington play some early preseason training camp practices with five down defensive lineman using Tim Settle as a fifth defensive lineman, and that Ben went back and did the research and found that Washington played more five-down

defensive fronts than any team in the league last year. So this was Ron Rivera talking about using five defensive linemen versus four. When do you and Jack expect, I guess, to use that kind of a formation and, like, what is the benefit of it, I suppose? Well, situational is what it really is. And, you know, when you get that five down look or that three-four look, it kind of puts a little pressure on the offenses to prepare. You know, and it's something, you know, we do in the games.

Tommy, do you remember the innovator, the first to really use what you would call a five-two defense, five defensive linemen, two linebackers? What's it, George Allen? It was George Allen. Yeah, I thought so. He did. Well, you've written enough books. about the team.

Yeah, but I don't remember what I wrote. So in 1972, when they went to the postseason, they played the Packers on Christmas Eve at RFK Stadium. John Brockington was the Packers' big running back, but they didn't really have a good quarterback. The quarterback was Scott Hunter in that playoff game against Washington. But John Brockington was one of the leading rushers in the NFL, and George Allen put Manny Cistrar.

trunk on the defensive front with McDowell and Brundage in Talbert and Verland Biggs and had five men up on the defensive front and they totally shut down John Brockington. Brockington 13 carries in that game, nine yards in that playoff game. And Washington won at 16 to 3. That's pretty remarkable. That guy was a big time back. He had a short NFL career. Brockington.

I'm not out of Ohio State. Yeah. But he was a beast, man. I think Brockington actually may have been in the Riggins draft. I'm looking that up right now. Riggins was in the 1971 NFL draft. I'm pretty sure that was the one that Riggins was in. Yeah, Riggins was in the – there he is.

John Brockington was taken – Riggins was taken six overall by the Jets. Brockington was taken nine overall. by the Packers in the 1971 draft. By the way, Washington had the 10th pick, but in George Allen's first year here, of course, traded it to the Rams for one of the many players that he traded to the Rams that year, to the Rams for some of his former players.

Anyway, look, their best position group is their defensive front. They're trying to get their best players on the field. And so don't be surprised if we see Washington lead the league again in five-man defensive fronts with two linebackers. Now, it leads to this. The two linebackers the other night when they had five defensive linemen on the field were Cole Holcomb and John Bostic, not Jamin Davis, not their first round pick. So it's a rookie first round pick. Right, the rookie. The guy with not much experience.

Exactly. And I'm, you know, some people are worked up over him. not looking great in the preseason, I think it takes time for young linebackers, unless they are three, four outside rush linebackers. And that's not Jamie Davis. You know, he's going to look like one of those guys that is thinking too much and it might take some time for him. Now I wanted to go to something that Jack Del Rio said.

There's been a lot of conversation about Washington with William Jackson, who's still out, so is Curtis Samuel. I don't know if they're going to be out today. We're recording this podcast before we're hearing from coaches today. But with the addition of Jackson and the drafting of Benjamin St. Juist and the development of that corner, Tori McTire, Del Rio was asked if he wants to play more man coverage this year. This is what he said.

You guys did implementing that throughout the offseason as well. Yeah, I don't care to talk too much about this game. You know, coach can say whatever he'd like on the topic. But, you know, we put together a blend of a lot of different things. Coming through camp right now where you have your library and work that you put in, preparing for the things you know you're going to need during the season, certainly massing up and playing a man to be part of that. Playing zone, fire zone, man zone, zero blitz, you know, the whole goutlet.

I mean, it's all stuff that we work on during training camp. and I feel like we've had a good camp, productive camp, certainly adding guys like William Jackson and St. Juice and Tori and some of those guys that we've added provide the opportunity because they're sticky and their man coverage. So there were a couple of things in that Del Rio sound bite, Tommy. Did you have a sense at the very beginning when he said, I don't really talk too much about scheme,

but coach can tell you whatever he'd like on that topic. Did you sense that, you know, Rivera talks a lot about a lot of things. You know, you get a lot from Rivera. You don't get a whole hell of a lot from Del Rio. Was that a little bit of a dig? I think it was a little bit of, you know, that's not my style kind of thing. You know, so yeah, I think he could see what's a little bit of a dig that he'd prefer if his boss kept his mouth shut.

You know, Del Rio is interesting. Like, he is definite no nonsense. He is definitely a guy when we've heard from him tries not to give you much, tries not to give any competitor much. And then there's the whole personal side of Jack Del Rio and his social media, you know, which is reflective of somebody who was, you know, a massive Trumper and super conservative. By the way, just as an aside, he's fully vaccinated. Not that, you know, and I said this on radio this morning, not that people who are anti-vaxxers are all, you know, conservative. They're not.

You know, they're a mix of everything in this country if you look at the people who aren't being vaccinated. But he was asked about vaccinations, and he said real quickly, he was a very short answer, and I'm paraphrasing, he said, you know, we've done a good job of getting vaccinated. The whole staff is vaccinated. Let's just talk about football. Look, as much as I think that Del Rio is a lunatic, he's a legitimate badass. Yeah.

He is a legitimate badass. Who was the better linebacker in the NFL, Del Rio or Rivera? I think it was Del Rio. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I think that's right. Definitely. Yeah. Del Rio probably had, I'm going to guess, a long-reo.

career than I think he did. I think Rivera played nine seasons and I think Del Rio probably played double digits in terms of years and he was a badass and he probably still is.

I want to look that up. Jack Del Rio, I want to see how many seasons he played. Jack Del Rio played well he didn't play that many, he played 11 years. He played 11 seasons. And he played, by the way, for the Cowboys against Washington.

He was on that Cowboys team. He started on those first Jimmy teams that started to make the playoffs. You know, he was involved in the 89, 90, 90, and 91 Cowboy teams and started in 90 and 91, which were the Cowboys' first two playoff seasons. Was 90 their first play? No, 91 was their first playoff season. started all 16 games. And then Tommy, ironically, went to Minnesota in 92 and played in that playoff game that we were talking about the other day when Washington beat Minnesota in the first

round of the playoffs before losing to San Francisco. He was in that game. So he had an 11-year career in the NFL, and Ron Rivera as a player played in Chicago, only Chicago. for nine seasons and started many fewer games than Del Rio. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah, Del Rio had a much more productive NFL career as a player. Both Pac-10 guys or Pac-8 guys back then probably.

It might have been packed in. But Del Rio, a USC guy and Rivera, of course, a Cal guy. So there was one other thing, one other part of that Del Rio soundbite that I wanted to mention. And that is, first of all, two, two. two other things. Number one, people have to get off the, you know, if they play man to man, they'll be a much better defense. That's just not true. Okay, it depends on who you're playing and who you're matching up against. And, you know, even if they, if they've got Lester Hayes and Michael Haynes out there as their corners and they've got this front four, yeah, I want

to see mostly man. But I'm not so sure that William Jackson and Kendall Fuller and Benjamin St. Juist are two of the greatest corners in the history of the game. And the way the rules are now, it's just much different. If you play man exclusively with good corners, not great corners, you're going to give up a lot of big plays. There are a lot of quarterbacks that hate to see zone and love to see man. And he didn't give you anything. He said, we're going to play everything.

We're going to play man. We're going to play zone. We're going to play fire zone, man zone, zero blitz, the whole gauntlet. He also mentioned at the very end, adding guys like, you. William Jackson, Benjamin St. Juist, and Tori McTire, and some of these guys that we've added provided the opportunity because they're sticky in their man coverage. That's good. You want guys that can really cover. I'm not suggesting that you don't. I'm not suggesting that you just want zone guys, but there's nothing wrong with being a team that relies exclusively on guys

that play zone better either. But he mentioned Tori McTire's name, along with Jackson and St. Juist. Now, there are more newcomers, but I think it's just another sign that this guy, McTire, who Rivera mentioned the other day, is going to make the team. He's going to make the team. Lastly, Landon Collins. Landing Collins talked about the talent level now as opposed to when he got here, and then there's another bite that sort of speaks to culture. Here's the first one. You've now been here for a few years. next week, obviously cuts are going to come.

It feels like the talent level across the board is better than it was probably when you got here. I'm just curious what your view is of the overall roster and how there's been a talent influx. They brought some tough guys in here, some great guys that came out here to compete, and I loved it because we didn't have nobody complaining. That's the biggest thing I was worried about.

My first couple of years said a lot of people complained and worried about this heat. Nobody just came out here in practice. And you got guys like that. that is really just to come out here to play and play for love of the game. It's amazing. They brought in a lot of tough guys, not guys that complain about the heat, Tommy. Here we go again. Everything's all good. We got the right guys. We got the right team. Listen to what they're saying out there. God, I feel like we've had this conversation so many times over the years.

I know. I know. I mean, you know, I mean, it's just I didn't know that that Landon Collins was this, what's Again, this guy who wanted a different atmosphere in Washington, but he was being held back by his teammates. I wasn't aware that he was that kind of guy. Here's him talking kind of about the roster turnover, which sort of the answer is more of an overall culture answer. Here's what he said to the question of roster turnover. Just following up on Ben's question,

what do you make of how much this roster's turned over even since you've gotten here? I mean, Ron Rivera has kind of remade this roster, and I know this is a league where it changes a lot, but what do you make of just how big a turnover there's been on this entire roster? It was much needed. When I came into here, it was tough pill to swallow to my guys. I didn't know much about what was going on here, but when I walked in here, I was like, all right, we got to turn this around some kind of way. And what Ron is doing now, man, he's done an amazing job.

I just want to be a part of it as long as I can because it's a special team. So Landon Collins, you know, is the latest to talk about Ron Rivera and the job he's doing, the amazing job that he's doing. And he wants to be a part of it as long as he can because it's a special team for sure. You know, he said it was needed. You know, he got here and he didn't know much about what was going on here. But when he walked in, he was like, wow, we got to turn this around in some kind of way. You know, I just want to remind everybody that when Landon Collins, got here. He fit right in in terms of the culture that was here at the beginning because he could not

get Dave Gettleman's name out of his mouth. Every single conversation, every single interview was about how he was going to spend his career torching the Giants. He was so butt hurt that the Giants didn't want him that everything was about the Giants. And I remember saying, look, stop. You're on a new team. It's about your new team. We don't give a shit what you think about the two games. against the Giants. You're going to play another 14 every year. Now, I thought Tommy during the offseason, in addition to the injury that he was returning from, I thought there was a chance and I had heard a couple of things that Landon Collins may not be a guy that Ron Rivera will end up wanting, that he won't be a guy that will, you know, be a Rivera culture change

guy and do it exactly the way they want to do it. But Rivera said the other day, very complimentary, Landon's come in, he's played well, he's really bought in to what we're doing. He's really immersed himself with his teammates. I think, you know, and I think I mentioned this the other day, and I think I may have played that soundbite, that I thought Rivera was sort of saying, we gave him a chance because he's a good player, and he really did, you know, do it the way we wanted him to do it. He's bought in, which is great. I think Landon Collins can be a really good player, a really good in-the-box safety. But he wouldn't be on this team if he's not fully bought in to Ron Rivera's culture change.

So I'm happy that he's turned the corner. Part of the tough pill that he had to swallow when he got here was this was a much worse place than the place he had come from with much worse people than Dave Gettleman. and the fact that he was able to spout off interview after interview about everything about his old team and nothing about his new team with no pushback from anybody in the organization should have been proof of it. But I'm glad that he's bought in and I actually thought last year, unlike many of you, I didn't think he was so bad. I didn't think he played so poorly before the injury. I think he'll be a good fit. and I bet you Jack Del Rio likes him a lot too.

Well, you mentioned Del Rio. I don't know if Jack Del Rio likes anybody. Anyway, but I think when we talk about the culture change and I'm going to make an opinion here just based on my view from afar, I mean, it's not just Rivera. It's the whole coaching staff, I think. I mean, I think it's safe to say this is probably the best. coaching staff they've had in quite a while.

Well, since the whole Shanahan staff, yes. Yes. The Shanahan staff was better than this staff. Yes, yes, it was. But they weren't focused on culture. No. No. So, but this coaching staff, I think, you know, from top to bottom, not just the head coach,

it's having a big impact on the culture in that building. I think that the coach, the head coach knew coming into this thing what he was getting into. I have no idea why he knew so much. I would assume everybody around the league knew what the situation was here. But, you know, we've seen coaches come in before. Gruden, you know, took the job because he had never had a job before like this. Shanahan took it, got paid a lot of money. money thought that he could, you know, control it and that Dan was sort of somebody that looked up

to Mike and he had looked up to Mike for years and that Mike would be okay and would be able to do it the way he, you know, he did it. I still think it would be interesting to see Rivera's contract to see what he has built into that contract in terms of ownership involvement, but whatever. I think that he came in eyes wide open. I think he understood this is a mess. He felt that he He said as much because he compared it to Carolina when he got there when they were two and 14 the year before. And he seemed to embrace the opportunity of a turnaround and to be a part of that. Now, he also, as Mike Silver pointed out before he joined the organization, thought that the roster was promising, especially on defense. Maybe he doesn't take this job if Montez Sweat and John Allen and Duran Payne and the number two pick and the opportunity to get Chase Young doesn't exist.

Maybe he doesn't take the job without the ability looking at it to turn it around relatively quickly. But he's talked about a culture change since the moment he's gotten here. And I think Jason Wright sort of understands to a certain degree how much of a mess it was. And I do feel good about him and the staff and the football operation right now. I may feel differently two years from now if they go 6 and 11, 7 and 10, don't make the playoffs. and Dan fires up, you know, Washington Argos won to go get the top-priced free agent. But, you know, for now, I feel as good as I did back in 2010 about a potential turnaround. The difference is this roster has much more talent and isn't on the verge of getting hit with a $36 million salary cap penalty, which was crippling to the team.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, the roster that Mike took over was so, so devoid of talent, and they needed so much. So much. So much. Okay. What they, what this team needs, though, and still needs, is a quarterback. They do. They do. They do. I, it's funny, I took the conversation that we had the other day to radio and took calls on it. I think it was a really interesting point that you made the other day. And I just, I can't wait to see regular season games to see whether or not they're letting

Ryan Fitzpatrick be Ryan Fitzpatrick or if they're trying to coach him to be different because they feel they've got a really good team around him. Yeah, I mean, it's a real question as to whether or not he's the right fit. You know, Teddy Bridgewater was named starting quarterback in Denver yesterday. I actually thought it was going to be Drew Locke. And I think what Vic Fangio decided was we have a really good team around the quarterback. We need a veteran quarterback that isn't going to turn the ball over, that's going to be a distributor and isn't going to hurt us. Because we've got great playmakers in Denver's roster is loaded.

they have done a great job here recently. The receivers, Judy, Sutlin, Hamler, KJ Hamler, Noah Fant is the tight end, Melvin Gordon, and now Jivante Williams in the backfield. You know, their defense has been good. It's now getting older, but still, Von Miller and Bradley Chubb and Kyle Fuller and Justin Simmons, and they added Ronald Darby to the team in the offseason. They've got some talent. They drafted Patrick Sartan.

They passed on a quarterback. number nine. They could have drafted Justin Fields. They could have drafted Mack Jones. They drafted Patrick Sertan. They didn't even trade out of that spot. And they went with Bridgewater, in my opinion, because Bridgewater, first of all, there's some familiarity with Bridgewater with Pat Shermer, the offensive coordinator. But the other part of that is that Locke is still young, and even though Locke would probably generate more big plays with a much bigger arm and a more aggressive posture, they want the guy that can manage the game right now, and that's Bridgewater.

Washington has a very similar team to Denver. They've got a lot of good players around a quarterback question mark. And so it'll be interesting. Do they let Fitzpatrick be Fitzpatrick, meaning taking the high-risk, high-reward throws, you know, every week, every quarter, every throw? Or are they going to say,

we got a lot of playmakers? We just want you to distribute the ball. We'll see. We're not going to know until they start playing. We're certainly not going to find out in this last preseason game, that's for sure. Doesn't sound like it. Dwayne Haskins is going to get the start for Pittsburgh tomorrow night in their final preseason game.

He was asked about the difference between Pittsburgh and his more recent stop in football, Washington. And his answer was pretty amazing. You'll hear that. And we will talk about the late Charlie Watts when we come back. Ron Rivera was asked after practice this morning by J.P. Finley. If it's important for the team to declare publicly who the starting quarterback is. And Ron Rivera's answer was, I think the players know. I don't even know why this is a question.

Like, does anybody actually really believe out there that there's a chance that Taylor Heineke or Kyle Allen's going to be the starter? No, that's not happening. Washington also released tight end Tamaric Hemingway who struggled in some of those preseason games, and they re-signed center John Toth. The big cut down comes 80 to 53 on Tuesday at 4 p.m. All right, so I told you that Dwayne Haskins is going to start for Pittsburgh against Carolina. Remember the last time he started a game was against Carolina in the regular season last year, and it didn't go very well. That was the game in which Taylor Heineke came in and had the really good final two drives of the fourth quarter, but they lost that game 20 to 13, and Dwayne in that game really, really struggled.

He was 14 of 28, two interceptions, et cetera, and they got beat. Now, that game started with the Stephen Sims, you know, fumble on the punt that led to a quick lead for Carolina. Anyway, so he was asked during a press conference yesterday about getting the start against Carolina. And here was part of what he said. He said the following. I think that Coach Tomlin does a great job as far as giving you a scouting report of who you're playing that week.

I've never really had that before. Closed quote. So he just dumped on two coaching staffs, three coaching staffs if you count Bill Callahan. Yeah. I mean, Pauley, our good friend Polly who calls into the radio show all the time, said, read this shit. This guy just doesn't get it. Levera was right.

It's RG3 all over again. Always someone else's fault. Maybe if he wasn't planning stripper parties or flying IG models in town, he would have gotten a scouting report earlier in the week. I mean, come on, Dwayne. Really unbelievable. Do we really think at the professional level

that you didn't get a game plan? And then maybe it's semantics. Maybe he got the game plan, but there wasn't like a scouting report, but the game plan is kind of the scouting report. Hey, that guy... Well, you know, maybe part of the problem is when he got the game plan in his hand,

it was the first time he saw or heard any of this since he didn't show up for film work. Well, maybe he left too early, got in right after they handed it out and left too early to find out if they were going to discuss it anymore. I don't know. I mean, come on, Dwayne. Seriously.

Like, you didn't get game plans. You didn't get scouting reports. Nobody's going to believe that. And there's a lot of low-lifes out there that owe me an apology on that guy. Do I owe you an apology on him? No. No, you're not a low-life. I got crucified for some of the stuff.

I mean, I was accused of being a racist by a lot of people. Well, you were accused of being a racist, and so was I for the whole RG-3 thing. I know. I know. You know, I'm rooting for him. Part of it is because I want to be proven right that, you know, he does have talent and that it can be seen in some way because I do think he's got talent. And I do think that there's something to him. Obviously, I did not, as many of you think, I did not buy into Dwayne Haskins.

That never happened. I always said I want to see more. I saw something in that first year that said that this isn't above him, that he's got tremendous talent, and I want to see it. And by the way, they picked him, you know, fucking 15 overall. So let's try to give him a chance since there was nobody else that could play. So I wanted to see him all 16 games last year. What I didn't know, and I found out, you know, part of last offseason leading is just the maturity issue that was really holding him back. And look, if he doesn't make it with a guy like Tomlin, he's not going to get, regardless of the talent, he's not going to get many chances.

If Tomlin doesn't get through to him, I don't know who will. Somebody will think that they can get through to him. But you can't, you know, you can't say that. I got a scouting report first time that's ever happened. I've never really had that before, really. hopefully Urban Meyer and and Ryan and Ryan Kelly gave you some some scouting reports in college, but you definitely had them at the NFL level. That's just not true.

There's nothing true about that. And it's sort of sour grapes to sort of throw your previous coaches under the bus. When really look in the mirror, you have yourself to blame for everything that happened or most of everything that happened. because they were a mess when they picked him. You know, you had a lame duck coach, and nobody in the organization wanted to pick them there, and so it wasn't the easiest of situations to come into. Yeah, but he made it much easier by demanding to wear Joe Seisman's number before he ever took, before he ever walked into the building.

Yeah. That certainly made things easier. Yeah, no doubt. Rachel Nichols, gone from ESPN. Gone. Malika Andrews will be the next star, female star at ESPN. She is fantastic. I don't really have much to say about Rachel Nichols. I said during the whole Maria Taylor, Rachel Nichols thing,

God, this has just got to be the biggest pain in the ass for ESPN, because most people don't even know who these people are. And it'd be one thing if this was a Stephen A. Smith, you know, situation with Scott or somebody that's like a massive name and a massive, you know, ratings draw, you know, at ESPN. But I think Rachel's always been good. You know, I've never had a problem with Rachel. I thought she was a pretty good reporter when she wrote for the post, and I think she's been pretty good on TV doing NBA stuff. She says, you know, more coming soon, which would lead me to believe that she's going to be going somewhere else. You know,

I would imagine she'll get another job. Look, I think she was good. On the other hand, I think she should look back and say, I was damn lucky. Damn lucky. Well, if she didn't have some ability, then she wouldn't have gotten lucky. Because it's not like she's strikingly beautiful. I mean, do you think she is? I think she's exotic looking at some people.

All right. I mean, you know, whatever. I thought she was pretty good. I mean, I think she was pretty good as an interviewer. I didn't watch the jump that much. I would watch it every once in a while during the playoffs. But whatever. I wish you're the best.

She's a Churchill girl. Moco. She was good. Yeah. She was good. I liked watching her on TV. All right. Charlie Watts passed away at the age of 80 years old.

And man, the outpouring from people about the death of the Rolling So Stone's drummer was really cool to read. I mean, I've spent the last couple of days just reading from everybody. I mean, this happens, and it's happened a lot, obviously, over the last couple of years. Just think about all the different musicians, rock musicians specifically, that have passed away. But I know you wanted to say something. Well, I mean, I read this one story. You probably read it, too, so I'm probably telling you something you know. Apparently in Keith Richards' book, he talked about there was a fight in the 70s when Mick decided on their next tour

that they should be Mick Jagger in the Rolling Stones and then he referred to Charlie as quote my drummer this did not sit well with Watts he came to Mick's room picked him up and hung him out the window fifth floor window he then asked Mick if he wanted to

apologize. Mick was screaming and weeping as he dangled over to traffic. He apologized profusely and Charlie hauled him back in. This ended the Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones biz. Yeah. Yeah. I've read that before

about Watts. You know, I haven't talked to this person, but CJ did. Steve Gorman was the longtime drummer of the Black Crows. And Steve ended up being a sports, you know, talk show host. He had a national show, big sports fan. And we met him one year. I don't know if it was with you or not. I don't know if

you remember this. But his table on Radio Row was like two tables away from ours. And I'm a huge Black Crows fan. And I'm like, holy shit, that's Steve Gorman. I heard that he was a sports talk host and I went over and I ended up having like a 45 minute conversation with him when the show was over. In fact, recently, and when I say recently, in the last five years, when I was in Nashville visiting my sister, I had my middle son who was a musician and I didn't do that thing where I was like, hey man, would you, you know, give my son a lesson or my son's a drummer. He's also a guitar player, but he has these studios down in Nashville that CJ had told me about. he does the sports show from there.

And so I just, I texted him and I said, you know, we met a couple years ago and he got immediately right back to me. And he said, oh, my God, please stop by. I remember the conversation about sports and everything that we had. And CJ actually worked with Steve for a while. Anyway, to make a long story short, I never actually took him up on it. Something came up and I had to text him and say, thanks so much, we're going to have to pass. but CJ said that he has told so many Charlie Watts stories over the years and that he's just one of the all-time great guys in rock and roll music.

You know, and he's also, you know, considered to be, you know, among the greatest drummers of all time. I love, I'm a big Rolling Stones, you know, list guy going through greatest guitarist, greatest drummers, you know, all that stuff. You know, I love doing that. But he's always up there. And in sort of that, you know, that list of like 10 to 15, Neil Pert obviously is pretty much a consensus, number one. John Bonham's up there, Keith Moon and others. But he's considered a great drummer.

And I don't know. To me, he's always been like the quiet guy in the Stones. It's always been Keith Richards and Mick Jagger. Yeah, yeah. Apparently he had his own jazz quartet, the Charlie Watts Quartet. He was a jazz drummer, yeah. Yes, yeah. Look, I'm not a huge Rolling Stones fan. Oh, no. I mean, I know people who are big Rolling Stone fans, so I wouldn't call myself one of those,

but I like them. I have a lot of their songs on my playlist, and I saw them in person once at JFK Stadium in Philly in 1980. I've always enjoyed it, but I'm probably not as big a Stone's fan as you are, even. Yeah, I've seen them. I've probably seen the Stones six times. You know, going back to the first time I saw him was probably in 1981 at the Capitol Center. But, yeah, and by the way, the most recent time I saw the Stones was 10 years ago at Capital One. or MCI Center, whatever it was called in the moment. And I think I mentioned this to you,

but Keith, like there was a, there was like a 25-minute segment of Keith Richards playing his own stuff. And I don't know, it wasn't great. It wasn't great. And I remember, that was probably like the sixth or seventh time I've seen. I don't know the exact number, but it's five, six, seven times that I've seen them.

And I remember saying to my wife, she was with me, I'm like, you know what? that's going to be it. They are old. It was like their, it was like their, I forget which tour it was called, actually, now that I think about it.

But I think the first time I saw him was like in 1981, early 80s. You know, that's what I saw them. 100,000 people at JFK Stadium, and George Thorogood opened the show, and he was really good. And then Journey played,

and everyone booed. the whole time, sure he was on stage. And then the Stones came on. Yeah, I want to say that when they came to the Capitol Center, that it was like five or six shows that they played. All of them sold out. You know, I think the record for sold out shows at that arena, which had, you know, a lot of concerts.

And obviously Capital One has. But when you think back to like the 80s, Tommy, RFK or the Capital Center for a big tour. That was it. You know, I don't know if, like, the Patriot Center was doing big shows back then. Maybe they were. Maybe they were. But the Capitol Center hosted every big, you know, tour that came through.

And they did, I'm trying to look it up as we're speaking here because I want to get this right. And I want to get the year right. but I think they did five sold-out shows. But in 1984, Prince sold-out Capitol Center, nine straight nights. What about Bruce? I don't know if, I think Prince has the record for sold-out shows in one stop for here. Because I think it was nine.

I think he did 11 at Madison Square Garden on that purple rain tour. But, okay, here's the stone. American Tour, they called it the American Tour in 1981. That would have been the one I went to if this is the Capital Center year. Philly. Where's the East Coast run? Here's one East Coast run. Okay, here it is.

December 7th, 8th, 1981 in Landover, three straight nights. Three nights. Okay. Where did you see him? At Philly at JFK Stadium. George Thurgood and the destroyers opened up for him. Yes. Yeah, that's the show you went to.

And I met George Thoreau good years later in the Nats Clubhouse. He's a big baseball fan. And he was walking around Nats Clubhouse, and somebody introduced me to him. And I told him, I saw him at that show. And I think he told me a story about how Ron Wood gave him a guitar, you know, as a gift, which was really cool. you know so i don't know why i thought the right guy right rodwood yeah of course Tommy listen to the listen to the opening acts in this 1988 one tour because you missed your favorite opening act who were part they were part of the stones 1981 american tour the j giles band

opened for them many times oh my god on this tour oh my god but listen to the people that opened up for the stones on this tour Journey, Thurgood, the go-go's, heart, J. Giles, Prince, Prince opened up for the stones in 81? That can't be possible. I'm not, it says that Prince opened up. I'm wondering if Prince just came on, you know, on with them or something. It was at the L.A. Memorial Coliseum, because Prince in 81 was big enough. I mean, it's pre-purple rain, but he's still a major act at that point.

Van Halen, Straycats, Neville Brothers, Tina Turner, Edda James, Molly Hatchet, Santana. Molly Hatchez, there's a blast on the past. A little Southern rock for you one time. Yeah. All right. Rest in peace, Charlie Watts. That is a great story. You know, Charlie Watts has always had this, you know, this face, right, that's unmistakable

and this style of drumming where it never really seems to get overly worked up. It's just smooth and controlled and yet to know that he could get that angry to hang Mick, and Mick was crying like a baby. Thank God they didn't change it to Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones. Thank goodness. that's a hell of a tour though isn't it yeah i mean some of the people and then i'm looking to see the next time they came back that was to start me up uh uh i don't know what they called it but their big hit that year would start me up yeah no doubt then 1981 would have been start me up

definitely um and they didn't come back to the u.s for a real long tour until 89 i know i saw them when they had that 40 Licks album come out. I know I saw him then. That also was, that one was at FedEx. That one was at FedEx Field. I think so. Hold on. That one was at FedEx Field.

October 4th, 2002 FedEx Field. One show. And man, the strokes opened up for them. The pretenders opened up for them on that tour. No doubt did. Stripe, Cheryl Crow. You know, I guess on those big tours, man, if you weren't able to sell out stadiums like that, it was quite the honor to be asked to open up.

Even if you were already a pretty sizable name, because some of those people were big names in those years. Yeah. I mean, Cheryl Crow in 2002 was, her stuff got really big as a solo artist in the 90s. Yes, it did. Okay. Are we done? Well, I just want to leave you with this saying by the great writer Dorothy Parker before we close the show.

Always remember this. You can lead a horticulture, but you can't make her think. One of the great writers of the 20th century. Do you know what I watched last night? Have you seen this series called very scary people? No. It's basically a series on serial killers primarily.

Oh, then I don't want to watch it. Okay. Well, last night they had a three-parter on Charles Manson, and it's just so, it's so perfect in terms of all the people and all of the names. And then, you know, we've talked about the movie once upon a time. time in Hollywood several times. Right. Just how that whole night played out.

I mean, those Sharon Tate murders, you remember this, I don't. But they were gruesome, gruesome. Yes, they were. That was like some kind of a cult thing we thought it was. Well, it was. Some kind of ritual, satanic ritual. It was. It was exactly that.

Yeah. But it's got a rewritten historical ending in the movie that I love once upon a time in Hollywood, which, you know, old Rick Dalton plays a big part of it, and so does Brad Pitt. Okay. Thanks. Enjoy the beach. Tommy's at the beach down in Bethany. If you're down and Bethany this weekend, walk down and front up.

Do you want me to tell everybody where you're going to be? No. Okay. Just walk around in Bethany. Maybe you'll run into him. I'm back tomorrow, and then I'll also end up doing a podcast late Saturday night, early Sunday morning following the final preseason game. But have a great rest of the day. Everybody back tomorrow.