The Kevin Sheehan Show - Standig & SVP on Stafford

Episode Date: January 27, 2021

Kevin, Ben Standig/The Athletic, and Scott Van Pelt on the Matt Stafford possibility. A lot more on WFT as well. Kevin also took time to remember a day that will live in infamy for Maryland Basketball fans.....the "Miracle Minute" loss to Duke 20 years ago tonight.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, no Cooley today. We are now into the off season. So Cooley will be on two days a week on average,

maybe sometimes three as we approach free agency, draft, et cetera. Tommy will be back tomorrow. I'm going to play for you in a little bit what Scott Van Pelt told me on the radio show about Matt Stafford. We're going to start the conversation with Washington football team and Ben Standing talking about Matt Stafford. Ben joins us right now. Of course, Ben's with the athletic.

I would urge all of you to subscribe to the athletic. It's totally worth it. I've been an athletic subscriber for a year now, and it's been great. Ben just wrote about Matt Stafford. And I want to start with him because, look, I think the over, the big picture for me is that it's, It's a long shot to get Stafford because I think there's just going to be too much interest. I think there are going to be better deals that Detroit will be able to look at. And deals, by the way, that may be able to send him to a whole other conference, the AFC versus the NFC.

It's also, let's face it, it is a year that all of a sudden there are no less than 15, 16, 17 teams looking for a quarterback. And half of those teams think a quarterback will make the difference next year between playoffs, not playoffs, or deep into the playoffs or just barely a playoff team. Big picture Ben Standing from the athletic at Ben Standing on Twitter. Do you think Washington, even if they're super interested, has a reasonable chance of acquiring Matt Stafford? Well, I mean, I think they have a chance because they're one of the teams that you would logically think would be not just interested for all the obvious reasons. They need a quarterback, the Martin Mayhew aspect.

Hekees, they got the drafted staffer. And just, you know, they did make improvements late in the year, but the clear of the quarterback situation is a mess. And they have all their picks. Like, they have enough assets to get interesting. But the reality is, and this is a thing I think that fans, and maybe sometimes those that are, fall victim too often is we are hyper-focused on the team that we cover. when we have these debates.

My quarterback is better than your quarterback. My GM is terrible. Our offensive line is the worst in the league. Because we watch this thing all the time in these people, but we don't pay attention necessarily to everyone else. And I promise you, everybody else in the league is also saying that their team needs to get Matt Stafford. Our Colts writer just wrote a think-piece story

about why that team must, must, must go get Stafford. Philip Rivers retired. they have a pretty good defense, you know, they're just missing that one thing and so on. And others have written the same thing. So the question then becomes, does that from the outside translate to what's thinking on the inside? And there definitely will be teams, I'm going to imagine,

who when they get to the end, think to themselves, okay, we need a quarterback to go to the next level. Maybe that next level for them is going from, you know, six and ten to ten and six or eight and eight to twelve and four, you know, to contend, whatever that may be. and if Sean Watson isn't really available, or we don't think we can get him, and we don't get Matt Stafford,

what are we doing? What are we banking on James Winston or Cam Newton or trading for Sam Donald, knowing he's getting, he has to get extended in a year? These are scary propositions. And so, yes, I imagine there's a team or two that will,

maybe panic is overstating, you know, overstating the emotion, but to some degree will panic and say, the hell of this, we need to move forward here, especially if it's a team or a coach, that's in a position of, hey, if we don't win now, we could be out of here pretty soon.

So I imagine, while I was asking executives around the league if they thought a first and the third was a reasonable price, and some were kind of balking a bit, but I think they also recognized that may not even do it, because it just takes one team to say, the hell of it, we'll give you two first, or we'll give you three picks, or whatever it is, that could be interesting. So, yes, I think Washington could get him, but they're going to have to be aggressive. I don't think you're just going to be able to get it for a cheap price because there's just too many teams this year, as you pointed out, who need a quarterback. It's interesting, a couple of things that you said.

First of all, your column that you just wrote about Stafford and what you just said was Cooley's impression too, and this was on Monday. Cooley basically said it's going to end up being closer to two firsts. This is a guy that people actually really respect and think can elevate their team from either non-playoff team to playoff team or playoff team to deep into the playoffs team. And there's going to be too many teams that are going to be interested and it's going to really get out of hand and it's going to ultimately be two firsts. So whether or not he's right, I think the general idea is they're going to be a lot of teams interested.

And that also something you said just makes me think about, you know, how so many of us and, you know, I do it sometimes. You probably do it sometimes. We are so involved with this one team that we're, you know, either fans of or we are, you know, paid to cover that, you know, you end up with like this impression. I have so many listeners who's their impression of Matt Stafford is his record. And it's because a lot of times they don't watch enough of the other teams in the other games. A lot of you do who are listening. I'm not suggesting that all of you do. don't. But if you've watched this guy, then you're probably going to have a similar opinion that the league has of him. And I'm talking about league executives, coaches, GMs, etc. He's highly

respected, and he is one of those guys that doesn't have a winning record that hasn't won a playoff game that I think, Ben, correct me if I'm wrong, based on the conversations you've had, that evaluators aren't going to care about. They know, they're watching and they see a guy that can do it. Yeah, I mean, they're all, look, you know, I think Matt Stafford, because we're going to talk about him so much up until the point that he gets traded or Washington to figure out some other solution to a degree, we may like sort of inflate what he is. He isn't Aaron Rogers. He isn't Pat Mahomes. He's not at that level. But he has proven

over time that he is a guy who can stand up in pressure moments, who can get the ball down the field, who has the talent, the arm strength, the mental toughness, and frankly the physical toughness to play through injuries and basically almost year in and year out play all 16 games. For a team that has gone through four starting quarterbacks in two of the last three years, that availability aspect is kind of a big deal, and it should not be overlooked even when we just talk about statistics. So, yeah, I think there are some questions about Stafford to a point of like, you know, you read some things about, you know, leadership questions.

I mean, if the quarterback is such an overweighted position, and we're saying Matthew Stafford's all that, how come they haven't had more success during his time? They've had some, but not a ton. I'm not saying that, like you said, that the record is all on him. And frankly, you know, the Lions are the NFL equivalent of the Wizards. It's been 40 years of bliss, and it goes way beyond any one or two players. So teams like Stafford, and like I said, the reality is it isn't just about Safford. It's about what else are you doing.

Like, just to use one example, last year everybody made a big deal about Washington going all in to try to get Amari Cooper, right? And they were offering over $100 million. What was so interesting to me about that is it was obvious that Amari Cooper was by far the only sort of wide receiver one available in last year's free agency. And there wasn't anybody else. So Washington, I think, looked at it and said, we need a receiver. We're going to go all in on this guy. But when they didn't get him, they didn't then go beyond Mahini rather to spend frivolously. on other stuff. They're like, no, we want that guy, we're going all in. I think Stafford is sort of

the same kind of thing. There are other quarterbacks, but it's him, again, I'm assuming no Watson and no Dak Prescott and no Aaron Rogers. It's basically Matt Stafford or good luck trying to figure out what to do next. And I think that's what's going to make him so interesting and why teams are going to say, yeah, he's good and there really is no other option if we wanted that actual upgrade at quarterback. The reports came out yesterday from Schaefter and others that teams have already started to reach out to the Lions about what it will take to get Stafford. Do you think Washington's done it? Well, I would imagine they've had a conversation.

Like, I thought Shepard's report, and I was kind of like, well, I mean, obviously, I mean, it came out on Saturday that this had happened. And by, we learned as well that, like, when they were interviewing for their new coaching and GM positions, that sort of they let people know, hey, Matt Stafford may not be here. so if you take this job, just understand that. So that's going to get around the campfire that other teams are going to be aware of this. I'm not suggesting Washington hired Martin Maykew

because they became aware that Matt Stafford would be available. But I'm pretty sure Martin Mayhew is aware that this is happening. Same with Marty Herney and Ron Rivera, and therefore I would be stunned if they haven't had some of these generic conversations to say, hey, where, you know, it's like being in the Zoom. We have our hand raised when you want to have a conversation or when you're ready to discuss things in more detail, let's do that.

I was told that Herney and Mayhew are in Alabama for the Senior Bowl. Now, that's obvious in terms of what that pre-draft event represents, but also it's really maybe the only time this year in which the entire league is going to be in one place, right? Because there's no combine this year. I don't think there's going to be an owner's meeting or at least not, you know, not in the same way, you know, in person. So this is an opportunity to actually be face-to-face. I'm assuming Brad Holmes, the Lions, GM is down there as well.

So I would be stunned if, like, they didn't just randomly run to each other in some hotel lobby or whatever at a minimum. Just say, hey, what's going on? Oh, Matt Stafford. Yeah, let's talk about that. We're talking to Ben Standing from The Athletic. So I think it's, I mean, this would be the move I would love them to make because I don't think Watson's a realistic possibility. and I don't even know that Watson will legitimately be available. Rogers, come on.

That's not really going to be an option. I can't believe that bubbled up like that. That was crazy. Yeah. You know, if you're thinking about guys like James Winston or Sam Darnold, we can get to them in a moment, but I would still prefer Stafford, even if I have to give up more draft capital to get them.

Ultimately, based on the people that you talk to, what do you think the price will be? So I was, you know, when the news broke on Saturday, I was immediately sort of reaching out to people. And I think a lot of people were still absorbing it and taking it in. And, you know, one of the questions, when I was getting some pushback about the idea of trading a first and the third for a guy who will be 33, one pro bowl, you know, whatever. And when I was, I said, just to be clear, are you pushing back on this because you think I'm overstating the price? Or are you pushing back because you don't want to accept this reality that I'm giving you? You kind of said, yeah, kind of both.

So I think ultimately, you know, whether it's a technically two firsts, you know, I don't know if that ultimately gets to that point. But, you know, the idea of first and a third sort of being a baseline, you know, feels like that may be the low end of this. Now, look, just to be clear, if, say the Miami, I'm just making this up. If the Miami Dolphins, like, they're not going to trade the third pick for Matt Stafford. But if you go higher up in the first round and say 19, you know, maybe you don't have to give up two ones, right? I mean, maybe at 19 for Washington, maybe you do. maybe for some other team, if it's high up, you don't have to. So either way, I think first and third kind of feels like a starting point,

and then we kind of go from there. But like I said, we'll have to see how the market plays out. If Watson gets available, maybe that changes some things. You know, they are at the Senior Bowl. Maybe they decide, hey, you know, a guy like Matt Jones is more interesting than we thought. I'm not thinking he is, but, you know, the quarterback from Alabama. If he's available in the back half of the first round, you know, maybe he's not our week one starter, but we, you know, we don't want to,

we would rather go long haul than, you know, go with, you know, some of the team decides they'll go with the version of a of a Kyle Allen or somebody like that. So, you know, we'll see. But, yeah, I'd imagine the momentum for Stafford is only going to increase here in the coming days seem to have a better sense

of what's available to them, which is probably not going to be much. All right, let's assume that they, you know, the Watson's and the Staffords right now. And let's just, and Rogers, if you even want to throw Rogers into the mix. Let's just assume that none of the three, are doable and they're not available to Washington either because a price or, you know,

they're just better deals or they're more preferred destinations. What do you think that Marty, Martin, and Ron, what's their plan? Well, I think one, I think the Kyle Allen thing is a real thing. I mean, every opportunity Ron Rivera has ever had to talk about Kyle Allen, he talks them up. And, you know, I'm not the only person to notice when late in the season he was asked if Washington could have done that late search or that Alex Smith. And Ron immediately said, yeah, we could have done it with Kyle Allen. I think that is something to keep in mind.

I'm not thoroughly saying that they think he's a long-term answer to a quarterback, but it may allow them to say, look, we're not going to go all in on some trading for somebody or giving somebody some fat contract that we don't completely buy in. But, you know, we're not going to feel desperate because of his existence. I think that is a legitimate scenario, which, which that doesn't mean then at that point they wouldn't add somebody else. And I'm not even just saying Taylor Heineke. I mean, maybe they draft the guy in the first round,

or maybe they do bring in a James Winston or somebody for some sort of competition. But I think that I think the Kyle Allen thing is something real and needs to be considered. I mean, obviously, Cam Newton is going to have to be mentioned as well, since now Marty Herni's there. And obviously, all things Rivera revert back to somebody new at Carolina. They passed on Cam Newton last year. never really quite got a great answer. Did Ron Rivera think Cam Newton was washed?

Did he just decide, well, we have to give Haskins a shot? Kyle Allen is sort of an easier way to do that because, you know, if Cam Newton's here, there's no, there's no quarterback competition again because Cam Newton is starting over to Wayne Haskins and maybe even, I don't know, we will have to go down that road again, but, you know, that's just one of those things. So here's, I guess, my other point, though, Kevin, and this is one thing I got into with my story, and I'm curious your view. We talked about, actually, you and I talked about this on the radio the other day.

Like, if I say they have a two-year window coming up, I'm not saying they have a two-year window. I'm saying they have like a two-year window with the roster that they have now before things start getting expensive. With that defensive line, with Terry McCorn, with Morgan Moses' contract, Matt Ionitis, they can kind of keep everything in place for the next two years based on my rudimentary understanding of the salary cap before things start to escalate. And if you insert Matt Stafford or somebody like that,

into that conversation, I think, you know, that becomes interesting. But if you wait to figure out the quarterback, you draft somebody, you're going to develop or whatever, that window becomes, you know, tighter. And now you're going to have to start paying the John Allen's with Duran Payne's, McClorin, and then you know Chase Young, et cetera. Like, that to me why I kind of feel like the veteran aspect seems to be, I keep really more in that way than, say, the draft pick, because it does feel like there's an opportunity here on multiple fronts to take advantage of, and that's where as a veteran comes

into play. You know, roster management is so important in the NFL. Like, you know, there are so many conversations we both have, and sometimes I don't have all the answers, and I don't understand all of the machinations or the possible, you know, moves teams can make. Sometimes it looks like if you're just looking at contracts and you're looking at, you know, projected total salary cap number, You can do back of the envelope math, but they understand this so much more. One thing that's really clear is that over the last 21 years, this has been a major weakness in the organization, certainly the first 10 years of Snyder's ownership. Now, Bruce, because he was so innately cheap, and he was, you know, Mr.

Hey, I got a C-minus player for an A-plus contract, which was pretty much his move, with the exception of, say, Deshawn Jackson and, you know, Josh Norman and a couple of the big moves that he made that sort of fell into his lap to trade for Alex Smith, obviously. This is going to be something to watch because this is a big off season. Last year, they decided that it didn't make any sense, culture-wise, to try to bring back guys like Quentin Dunbar or Trent Williams, and they moved on from them. By the way, it's one of the things I said on the podcast yesterday, and I know you wrote about this, you think that they can keep all of these defensive linemen from a roster management in a cap standpoint. I would be very surprised if they

move on from Jonathan Allen. I think Jonathan Allen, it's much more likely that he will be getting a contract extension at some point versus getting traded, which a lot of the fans think that you can throw John Allen into a deal for Deshawn Watson or for Matt Stafford or or for someone else. And first of all, he's only got one year left on his deal. It's the fifth year option deal, which makes him, you know, a tough guy to trade unless you're going to simultaneously ink him to a long-term deal. But I just think that he is in Rivera's eyes, in Jack Del Rio's eyes, he's exactly

what they want as part of the overall culture change. I think John Allen, it's, he might be Ron Rivera's favorite player on the team. I just don't see that happening. But anyway, getting back to the roster management thing, this is, we'll find out how good they are at this. I think Marty Herney's been okay. Mayhew, you know, you've got professionals, you know, you've got guys who have done it and done it in organizations that weren't great or were average, better than this organization, certainly Carolina. But it's huge some of these decisions that they make. But I come back to this, Ben, you've got to have a quarterback.

I don't know what they think other than, I. I agree with you that they really like Kyle Allen. I would agree with you. I think you would say this, that at least Scott Turner really likes Taylor Heineke. But do they really think they can contend for a Super Bowl or that they can go five, six, seven straight years and be a playoff team in 90% of those seasons, winning 9, 10, 11 games a year with either one of those two? This is a moment for them. This is a moment to really make a big decision. This is where, you know, Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder never had any vision.

You know, you've got to be able to identify somebody early and then lock that person up. You've got to be able to identify whether or not you have the answer or not or whether the answer lies somewhere else. This is a big moment for them because there are a couple of options here. And even drafting at 19, there are a couple of. a couple of quarterbacks in the draft. I come to this. I know that Heineke played a really good game, and I actually liked Kyle Allen's couple of starts. Heineke's been injured in every single game he's played. Alan throws picks. Both of them were undrafted free agents, and you're hoping that one of them turns into Kurt Warner, or Jake Delome even. And I don't know if that'll happen.

So this is a big moment for them. And then managing that will be really important. as well. This is a huge off-season for this new triumvirate to really make a move or Stan Pat, which would also be a move, on the quarterback. What do you think? Yeah, by the way, I was just thinking about this. I haven't been on the, I do the radio with you all the time, so I didn't think about this. I haven't done the podcast in a minute. Shout out to the dozen or so people who legitimately tell me they like hearing me on your podcast. I get more that people hear me on this than anything else I do. It's the radio too, but this more. There's Ben standing with a shout out to you guys.

Thanks. Keep going back to Ben after he's on. I have him on for a reason because I always like, it's not an interview with Ben. It's always a conversation. And I love the people that I have on shows. And usually it's a lot of the local guys that I know and beat guys where we end up having more conversations than interviews.

Like if I have, I don't know, if I have like Ron Rivera on the show, on the radio show, that's an interview. More or less, though, 80% of the people I have on shows turns into a conversation. And Ben's really smart and knows a lot about what's going on with this team. He is, from my standpoint, a very respected, sharp opinion. So that's why I like having them on the show. I'm glad people also like when you're on the show. Although you didn't say that. You just said that people reach out to you.

Hopefully they reach out to you with positive comments. I would imagine that they do. Anyway. Yeah, the larger point is they listen to you. That's the real point. This is a big moment. This is a big off season as it relates to many things, but the quarterback position in particular.

There's no Dwayne Haskins in this conversation. We thought there would be four months ago, even three months ago. You know, and so anyway, what do you think? Yeah, yeah. So I think like, so for example, again, let's just say for, you know, Indianapolis, Colts gets Stafford and Watson's face Pat, so what do they kind of do? Well, all I'm saying on Kyle Allen is, like, I think he is somebody that Ron Rivera would think,

okay, if I have a quarterback competition, because the reality is, I don't know if there's anybody else out there right now, I think is a must start all the time. Kyle Allen gives us a guy that we can use, right? I don't know if he's the Super Bowl level, but he gives us a guy. We have to kind of sort of figure things out from there. Of the generic names that are out there, I actually think, and I just sort of talked about this on my podcast, that the, if you look at it from an upside perspective as well as a cost perspective, I actually think James Winston is the guy that intrigues me the most.

There's a lot of concern. The turnovers are off the charts, and if New Orleans were to let him go after being with him for a year, you'd have to wonder, wait, why are the Saints saying, I'm out of here. But the feeling is pretty high. I can't imagine he's going to cost much based on, you know, he got no interest last off season. And, you know, it's not like he did anything for real with the Saints. But there is some legitimate upside there. And, you know, you put him in, you know, with his coaching staff.

And look, you can have the competition with Kyle Allen. It's not like you have to say that James Winston, you get the gig. But obviously, I think we would imagine he probably wins out. But that's where I think like Kyle Island gives them an opportunity to say, okay, look, at a minimum level, we can bring in somebody else, have a real competition because we think Kyle Allen can do some good things and kind of go from there. To your larger point about this being a big off season, this isn't the exact same thing, but you know why I think about the Wizards too much. Let me go back to this. when the Wizards in 2017 playoff, they go against Boston, they go to the game seven, and they lose. And that was the first year of Scott Brooks.

This is the exact same thing. But the next year, Scott Brooks had an incredible amount of power. He is the first. He's already had a good reputation coming from Oklahoma City. He comes to this new team. They are the hot team in the East. Everybody's excited about where things are going with the Wizards. But he squandered all that power.

He didn't take advantage of it by going to his star players and saying, hey, you guys have to do this more now. Instead, he just kind of let them continue to drift as needed. And that ultimately is one of the reasons why John Wall's situation ended up where it was, where disgruntled, they eventually got frustrated with him, whatever happened, there was a lot of factors in there. And what I'm saying is Ron Rivera has a lot of juice right now. We already kind of know this, but not only if he's a guy in charge, he's coming off a really good season. they won the division. He'll be in the conversation for coach of the year. The owner is relatively muzzled, rather compared to his norm, because of all his other stuff going on, we imagine.

At a minimum, Rivera is the guy who seems to be pulling all the levers right now. And this is an opportunity for him to do what, to make the bold move. I don't, maybe, and that's why maybe the Stafford thing, if that's what he views as bold, is the way to go. But I think this is the chance for Ron Rivera to say, I can do what I want right now. I have this power. I'm going to use it because if I wait, you never know what happened to this league. We can't assume next year that everybody will be back and healthy and things will have have gone right.

They have a first place schedule. It's going to be a tougher road this year automatically because of that. So, yeah, I think this is where, unlike where Scott Brooks didn't use his power when he had it, Ron Rivera is showing that he is with the front off the tires, and then this quarterback thing, I think, is the next step. Does he take full advantage of this power he has to say, we're making a lot of the the bold move right now and going to get somebody. Well, in many ways, he already made the boldest of moves as it relates to the owner. He cut loose the owner's draft pick. And, you know, there were a lot

of people that weren't sure that he'd be able to do that. And it's a good sign that he was able to do it. I'm not thrilled that he had to start that way. But, you know, I sort of believe that it was, you know, Ron going into this year, not knowing how bad the division would be and saying to the old Mr. Snyder, hey, I'm going to give him a shot. and he gave him a shot, but he benched him after four games and cut him before the end of the season, which really, you know, we really, because of everything that happened, you know, they made the playoffs, they won the division. It's really incredible that, I mean, I think we overlooked the fact that Dwayne Haskins, his career is hanging by a thread, and it's not even here. You know,

it's like not even here. And that would have been a hard prediction to me. make, and really an out-there prediction to make last, you know, July or August, although it was in play, you know, if he didn't prove to a new group that he could make it work. So, yeah, go ahead. By the way, just on the Askins thing, and just to sort of plug my podcast, the standard room only, plug it because it's great. Yeah. I appreciate it.

So I had on Quincy Avery, the quarterback coach for a lot of people, including Deshawn Watson, Trey Lance, one of the projected first round pick, and Dwayne Haskins. And, you know, back a year ago, Quinty Avery, one of these guys who was saying, hey, Dwayne Haskins, you know, kind of look out. Here we go. So I was sort of curious. What was his view of Dwayne Haskins now haven't seen the season play out, not just on the field, but off the field.

And, you know, what he said on the podcast was like, yeah, Dwayne has things to work on. He's got to become more mature. Yeah. He's got it. We have to sort of dial it back. He sounds like they'll work to work. together. We'll see, continue to work together. But he said, we also said to take it back to like a rudimentary level, I believe, is what

he said. So I mentioned that just to say that for all the questions about this team boxed with Dwayne, I feel like, you know, the evidence continues the point. They gave him opportunities, and unfortunately the kid didn't take advantage of them. And I think it's important to know as we move forward with the next quarterback situation that the evidence suggests don't blame them if we're going to blame somebody, blame the kid not being ready yet and blame the owner if we want for putting this kid in his position. But I think that's important to note that even the guy who has been working with Dwayne on the outside was bringing up some of the issues that the rest of us had been as

well. Look, there's only one person to blame for blowing a 15th pick in the first round of an NFL draft in this particular situation. It's the owner. The owner went against his football people and said, no, we're going to take the kid from bullies. You know, and whatever his reasoning was, it wasn't based. on a real understanding of anything, which none of his football decisions have over the years.

That just goes on the long list of major owner-influenced bungles by the organization. You know, you mentioned James Winston. I actually like James Winston. I don't know. Sometimes I know some of you out there say, is there a quarterback you don't like? It's always just based on looking for an answer here. You know, I mean, that's my prism. I mean, that's my perspective is I'm always trying to find, you know, if that guy became available, what I want him here, yeah, based on what they have here, yes.

I actually think there's something very intriguing about Winston, but you said something that would be 100% true. I know the Saints don't have great cap space, but I think if he's not in New Orleans next year, that that's a red flag. because I do think that Sean Payton would be the best judge of whether or not, or certainly one of the best judges as to whether or not Winston could become a franchise quarterback. And if he can, then they're going to move whatever they need to move contract-wise to make it happen. And if they don't, now Winston's got to commit to them as well because he's an unrestricted free agent. But Winston would be best served to play under Sean Payton as well for his career and to figure out a way to make it work.

So if Winston isn't in New Orleans, I would have some concerns about that. The guy that has gotten very little discussion, and obviously this is contingent on the Jets making a move for quarterback either in the draft or if it's for Watson, is Sam Darnold. Like, Sam Darnold fits the description of what we think they like in a quarterback. quarterback, which is really smart, you know, quick process guy and mobile. You know, I wonder, you know, he could be a guy that could become available. Like, there's so many possibilities. The bottom line is, unless you tell me otherwise, I don't think we really have other than what

we know how, we know they feel like Kyle Allen and Taylor Heineckee are really guys that know their system and that they like. But we don't know if they like him to the point where if all else fails. sales will be okay with them, or we don't need to go search for anything else. We've got our answer right here. Yeah. So here's what I think is sort of like an overarching aspect to all of this. So, okay, right. So they bring in Martin Mayhew and Marty Herney and everybody keeps asking, hey, what are they going to be doing? What are their responsibilities? I had somebody in one of my in the message board and one of my articles sort of say to me that they were frustrated with the fact

that we weren't providing with more reporting on this. And there's a nice guy. I'm not trying to pick on them. But it's frustrated that we're not providing more reporting on who's doing what. And my response to that is that when I inquire about this, I feel like everybody else is getting the same answer, the answer is it doesn't matter. They're going to do personnel.

They're going to do cap. It doesn't matter. What matters is they're reporting to Ron Rivera. And so don't look at the general manager like this is the person making the decision. Now, Rivera may frame it as, you know, we're going to do this together and kumbaya and all that, and that's fine. I've got doubting that he thinks that. But ultimately, his will, his whim is where things are going to go.

And we saw that this year in a lot of ways as well. So to that end, what does Ron Rivera think about this? Does he want to go through another year with a rebuilding quarterback, even if Dwayne Haskins was on sort of the more frustrating level of guys who maybe didn't put into the necessary work and maybe you wouldn't have that issue with a Trey Lance or a Mac Jones or whatever? Does he want to go through that again? I don't know.

And then also, this year sucked, right? On every level, this was a miserable year for him personally and professionally. Now, granted, professionally, by the end of it, they obviously did very well, and they win the division and all that stuff. But, you know, it was a tough year personally. What did everything he went through? How did it just change his vision of the world? Like, does he view like, oh, we can sort of keep building or do you know, hey, you never know what's going to happen tomorrow in this life. let's get let's get going and and lastly kevin i remember this very distinctly he what they win the

division they beat philly won the zoom calls of him the very first question ron basically some version of has its feel the fourth sentence of his first answer after winning the division involved the phrase boy now we have that first place division schedule next year i'll see about that that that is that is very much on his brain and so like i think you put all those things together. And that's why I just keep going more and more that they think they need to get a veteran quarterback. It's conceivable, they think. The combination that they have is, is that solution I just can't buy that after going through what they did where Alex Smith can't be available for three last four games and was limited. And, you know, realistically, even when he was

playing, that Con Island, like you said, availability is a big deal. You need to have these guys out there. Matt Stafford is as durable as they come for the most part, and I just, you know, if this is, like I said, more tea leaves than anything else, but it comes down to what is Ron Rivera think, and I just keep thinking he's going to, he's going to believe I need to get somebody to go now and not build, because building, I'm past that. That's my gut on sort of the situation right now. You know, there's also, in just, in talking through this together, a couple of things, sort of jarred my memory on. Gibbs said this too. Gibbs was on my radio show, I don't know, a year ago maybe, and I asked him about Dwayne Haskins. And Gibbs said, you know, it was not typical Gibbs because

he basically said, look, leadership is the most important thing about this position. And he's got to learn to become a leader. They have to find out whether or not he can be a leader. it's something that Rivera echoed too very early on, you know, a year ago leading into the spring, leading into the summer, leadership, leadership, leadership. So, you know, the person, I don't know if Kyle Allen's the kind of leader that they need. I don't know if Taylor Heineke's the kind of leader or whether or not they view those guys as really solid backups as answers if their leader and their franchise leader at the position, you know, were to go down. I don't know that, but man, Matt Stafford fits that description based on everything that you've, you know, read about him, heard about him. You know, I had Dan Miller on the show last week, the Voice of the Lions on the radio show.

There's a really good interview. Galdi had on 980 yesterday. You can listen to that on the radio.com app with Michael Rothstein, who covers the Lions in Detroit for ESPN.com. You're going to hear what Scott told me about Matt Stafford. what he thinks. Scott also told me off the air that he's gotten a nomad very well. Like there isn't anybody in the league that doesn't think that he's, you know, capable of being a big-time leader and a very successful quarterback in an organization that isn't like Detroit. But anyway, I think that that's all in. He knows Clayton Kirschoff. He does. They went to, didn't they go to high school together?

I think I heard something about that 20 times. Yeah, they both went to that high school in that very beautiful area of Dallas Highland Park, which is, I don't know, one of the most gorgeous close-in suburbs of any major city in America. Anyway, another thing to keep in mind, I guess, is that, you know, if they draft somebody, you're potentially void of that leadership next year and the year after. I don't know. I don't know what they're going to do. I do think this. I think that Stafford's not going to be getable. Watson's not going to be getable. Winston ultimately won't be a getable guy because if he's worth it, then he's going to stay in New Orleans. Dax's going to stay in Dallas. Tua is not going to be somebody that you're going to acquire, even if Miami trades for Watson.

The darn old thing is interesting to me. Some of the other veteran guys that are out there, you know, as free agents, whether it's, you know, Ryan Fitzpatrick or Jacoby Brissette or wherever you want to go with the various guys that you could go get. I don't know if any of them will be massively interesting. I hope they go after Stafford in a very aggressive way and just end up winning it. Dan Snyder fashion, overpaying. they have to because I think that would be a guy that would be worth it. They've always overpaid guys that weren't worth it. But my guess is that ultimately what you have right now in Kyle Allen and

Taylor Heineke and maybe some sort of young player that they draft not necessarily in the first round ends up being the quarterback mix on the team when we get to training camp. Yeah. I mean, like I said, it's hard to argue that because I do think that they think that kind of Kyle Allen can work, which is all that matters on some level. If they believe that, it doesn't matter if that's the reality. But as long as they believe it, then they think they have a baseline to fall back on and thus don't have to, you know, as I said, panic and so on. But we'll see.

It's going to be interesting for sure. I mean, it's possible that there's other executives around the league who have the same sentiment as the few that I talk to that say, hey, you know, first and a third for, you know, 33-year-olds, one pro bowl. no playoff wins, you know, what, what are we making of this here? Is it just on that the Lions or the Lions, or does Matt Stafford bear some responsibility if we're viewing him as a guy to take us to another level? So, yeah, I would probably agree with you, at least for like an odd standpoint.

I mean, it's hard to say where Washington fits on the likelihood of teams to get him, but the odds are not particularly high just because there are so many teams available. and, you know, they may view, like I said, that they have enough if it comes down to that, and they can always add one of these other pieces for sure. It's, you know, somebody asked me the other day, now that the season's over, like, what do I do? And I was like, are you serious? You know I cover the Washington football team, right? There are always things.

There are always things. There's a GM third that got a little crazy. Now there's a quarterback situation here we have to play with. There's straightening to the draft. I'll be okay. By the way, too, you had mentioned Cam Newton. I don't personally think that's even in play. If you watched him play this year, he can't do it anymore. He just can't do it anymore. I don't think that's an option. Hell, in some ways, I think Ben Rafflesberger would be more of an option than Cam Newton if for whatever reason Pittsburgh decides to go in another direction or a Teddy

Bridgewater. A Bridgewater could be an option if, you know, Carolina goes in a different direction. What do you think about Andy Dalton? I've always liked Dalton. You know, I haven't thought about Dalton as a possibility. I would say no, that he's probably not their kind of guy. Like if they're going to go with a veteran, they're going to go with, you know, a real lead. I think the leader thing is going to be a big deal.

I think that's why they loved Alex and kept Alex. around. And I don't see that happening for another year. By the way, if you look at their salary cap situation, and again, I'm not that guy. But if you just look at the basic math, they can always rejigger contracts. But Alex Smith is sort of moving on from him, even with like an $8 to $10 million cap hit, that is still a pretty substantial savings. It's like $13 to $14 million in savings, yeah. Yeah. And so that's just that, without knowing exactly what other teams could do,

that gets you up into the range of where the Patriots are, about $10 million or so. less than the Colts, two other teams that may be in the mix for Stafford. So, you know, like, but even beyond the Stafford part, like, it's the one thing they can do to get more money. And you obviously have the Brandon Shurf thing. Are they going to go out and get a free agent receiver, you know, a high-end one? What else are they going to do? Are they going to extend your Jonathan Allen type?

So, like, it is the one way. So I just don't see how you're bringing Alex Smith back unless you just absolutely believe that he's your best option because, look, they did win his last five starts. I just don't, it's just hard for me to look at it and think I can rely on that guy for 16 games. No, I don't think there's any, I really, I think the cap savings alone, they're moving on from him. And whether it's retirement in his situation or whether or not they release him, I don't see Alex Smith back on the roster for that very reason, you know, but the practical reason that he can't be your starter or you can't count on him to be your starter for 16. games. And to your point about the caps, I think most people know this, they have a very, very good cap situation, a top 10 cap situation, depending on which site you follow. Best in the

division, it will improve significantly without Alex Smith. It will move into the top five, very easily into the top five if they get the savings from Smith. And therefore, you're looking at signing sheriff to an extension, potentially don't laugh again, signing Jonathan Allen to an extension, maybe getting early on somebody else as well like a Duran Payne. But I think also they could be very active in free agency. Now, one of the reasons that you would attract in Alan Robinson or Kenny Ghaladay as, you know, in terms of the wide receivers or Chris Godwin, and after all the balls he dropped during the postseason, I don't know if I was. I want them, or like a Corey Davis from Tennessee, who I think really started to come on,

but A.J. Brown's really their number one. You know, one of the ways you're going to attract these guys is to have a quarterback answer. Like if you say we're rolling Taylor Heineke and Kyle Allen out, you know, that could potentially impact your ability to sign a big name offensive free agent. I mean, Ghaladay could be perfect if you end up trading for Stafford. Gala Day may go to whomever acquire Stafford, although Detroit could easily, he's only 26 years old, I think. They could easily franchise him as well. Alan Robinson's a possibility, you know, there.

I already mentioned Godwin. There are receivers out there. There are also corners, you know, that aren't going to be super high price like Desmond King from Tennessee, which I think they'll be interested. By the way, Curtis Samuel's a free agent, you know, from Carolina. You know, he may want to potentially come back and play for Rivera and Scott Turner. So they're going to – that's a lot, right? Curtis Samuel, can we just go make the Curtis Samuel, Burgundy, and Gold Jersey? That's happening, right?

Come on. I would think it is, but I'll tell you what, I really think that the Carolina situation is really impressive. I think Joe Brady really knows what he's doing. We'll see what they do at quarterback. I'm actually surprised that they're ready to move on from Bridgewater so quickly. Carolina doesn't have, if I recall, the best cap situation, but it's far from the worst. But, yeah, I mean, he's obvious, he makes, he would certainly continue the Carolina at Washington, you know, caravan.

He'd be, he'd just, you know, jump to the back of it and say, hey, let me catch up with everybody else that's there. And to be honest, like, for me, this is way forward thinking, but like, knowing that Terry McCorn looks like a stud, and I don't personally, Ben Sandig doesn't like spending a ton of receiver because I just think it's not a dependent, it's a dependent position, the further, you know, the further way you're up in the line of scrimmage. And I don't think that's how you build teams spending a lot there. And if I know, within two years, I'm giving McCorn a big extension, I don't want to overpay that position. So I'd rather, I get the Allen Robinson intrigue or guys like that, but I actually think I'd rather go for that second tier, maybe if it's Curtis Samuel or somebody else, and go that route.

it's still an upgrade, but I can, but I'm now not sort of messing with the idea of overpaying it receiver in a year or two. So I actually would go that route myself. I mean, let me just say that I don't really, I, look, Curtis Samuel, I guess is second tier by definition. He's also a player that's grown here significantly in the last couple of years and he's utilized in so many different ways. I remember before the Carolina game, I mentioned, you know, that Samuel's going to get three to four carries in this game, you know, he ended up, I think for the year having close to 50 carries.

I don't have the numbers in front of me. But I remember going into that game projecting like he was going to end up with 50 rushes as a wide receiver. Here it is. Hold on. He had 41, so I was nine off. He had 41 rushes for 200 yards, so we basically averaged close to five yards per carry. Had a couple of touchdowns rushing too. That actually brings me to something real quickly that we'll finish up with.

there were two mock drafts yesterday that came out CBS Sports line CBS Sports.com did theirs and then Kuiper had his updated draft mock draft and Kuyper's is his version I don't know if this is version 1.0 or whatever but he had Washington drafting the same player that the CBSSports.com mock draft had. And this guy happens to be one of my favorite players from last year in college football. The wide receiver from Florida, Cadarius Tony. If you watched college football this year, and I know not everybody watched as much of it as, you know, with all the cancellations and postponements, Florida was right there. If they didn't lose to LSU, they may have actually ended up being a playoff team. They were pretty close to it. Cadarius Tony just, to me, looks like Deshawn Jackson.

looks like a slightly bigger version, not as fast or elusive, like Tyree Kill. He is this slot guy that really looks uncheckable, like really difficult to cover. And I just thought it was really interesting. Both of the mock drafts had Washington at 19 taking Cadarious Tony. You can Google his highlights anybody can, I'm sure, if you just go to YouTube. He's number one for Florida. And Florida was a prolific offensive team with Kyle Traskett. quarterback with Kyle Pitts their tight end, who's also going to be a first round pick. Florida

off of that offense is going to have three first round picks more likely than not. But Tony, man, looks so much the part of the slot guy that ends up really causing problems for the opposing team. So, you know, that's also sort of Samuel's position, I guess is why I brought it up. It reminded me of that. I think they're going to address that position, and they should, whether it's via the draft or free agency. Because Stephen Sims Jr. didn't live up to what we were hoping he would live up to, especially. By the way, Tony's also a returner. He was also a really good punt returner at Florida as well.

Anyway. I'd like to see them in theory get a veteran receiver, but at the same point, it does feel like the younger, like this idea that it takes three years for a receiver to develop. That seems like going out the window when you see guys like McCorn, and AJ Brown, Medcaf and others coming in and playing very good right off the bat. So, yeah, I don't think drafting, assuming they have that first round pick, I don't think going that route is a bad way to go.

They obviously have to get more help. I like Cam Sins, but they need more. They need more on the offense. Yeah, and, you know, big guys, little guys, it doesn't really matter anymore. You need guys that get immediate separation, can catch the ball. This guy's a hands catcher, and he is phenomenal after the kid. catch. But Samuel, look, Samuel had what, like a 40-yard run against Washington in that game against the Panthers in December. Thanks for doing this. Ben's podcast, by the way, can be

listened to any way you listen to my podcast, whether it's Apple Podcast or Spotify or tune in or Stitcher. Ben, also, if you just follow him on Twitter at Ben Standing, also, you know, he always provides a link, a direct link to his podcast. called Standing Room Only. It's really good. So listen to that. Subscribe to the Athletic. I will talk to you later, my friend. Thank you. Yeah, ma'am. Peace. All right. When we come back, what Scott Van Pelt told me on the radio show this morning

about Matt Stafford. You'll hear that next right after this word from one of our sponsors. So Scott Van Pelt was on with me on the radio show this morning. We actually talked a lot about my next topic after this one, which is 20 years ago tonight, one of the worst losses in Maryland basketball history. I'll get to that to finish up the show here shortly. Before you hear what Scott said about Matt Stafford, this segment is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie.

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Plus they've got a live casino and a live sports race book as well. MyBooky.ag use my promo code, Kevin D.C. So Scott was on the radio show with me this morning. We talked a lot about the Maryland lost to Duke 20 years ago tonight, the Miracle Minute, the Gone in 54 seconds game at Colefield House. You can go to the radio.com app and listen to the radio show and listen to that interview in its entirety. Gary Williams was on with me as well. Or you can just go to the team 980.com and listen to the third hour.

of today's show. But I wanted to play this for you, because as part of the interview, we talked a little bit about the Super Bowl, and then I said to him, what do you think of Matt Stafford? Here's what he said. I love him. I love him. He plays hurt. He's a gamer. People can go, oh, what is he doing in Detroit? Good luck with Detroit. What's anyone ever done in Detroit? You know, there's criticisms that can be made. Sure, of him, but if you're asking me, like, would I trade the 19th and whatever else to get Stafford to Washington in a second. Yeah, I'm with you. I've been a massive fan, as you know, for years. It's just, it's funny because it dovetails perfectly off the conversation. I have so many people

that listen to this show and call or tweet that say, are you aware of his record as a starting quarterback? He's never won anything. Yeah, I'm completely aware of that. And I still would take him because I've watched him, and I know that he's really good. And if you put him in a situation, you know who loves Matt Stafford, I don't think I've mentioned this yet. I listen occasionally to the Pat McAfee show, and I did not listen to it yesterday to hear what Aaron Rogers said, because Aaron Rogers is a weekly guest on McAfee Show on Mad Dog's Network.

And Aaron Rogers, unsolicited a few weeks ago, was asked by McAfee, he said, made a comment. Did you see that throw Stafford made? And Roger spent three minutes going off on how great he thinks Matt Stafford and how people do not appreciate how good Matt Stafford is. So that's a pretty good endorsement. I had a guy tell me that the coach, one of his coaches on his staff will go out to watch Stafford warm up pregame. Ariens. There you go. They are like the arm talent. But it was a different. I was a different guy than that and Arian said that on the record. So, like, the right people respect Stafford.

Like, with respect to your wonderful fans at call and tweet, I'm going to trust the people whose job it is to analyze the talent in the league who know what it is. Like, the right people respect him. And I just, again, I just love the fact that through broken ribs and high ankle sprains with nothing to play for, like, he's out there, probably taking the needle or doing whatever he's got to do to be on the field to play for his team, because that's what you're going to. guy signed up for it. Like I said, I get 19th and whatever else you need to get him here, and I wouldn't think twice. All right, five to ten minutes on what happened 20 years ago tonight in College Park, right after this word from one of our sponsors.

20 years ago tonight, the Miracle Minute game, the gone and 54 second game, and that, what you just heard coming in, was part of what seemingly was a great night if you were a Maryland basketball fan at Cole Fieldhouse and College Park. Maryland had dominated Duke for 39 of the 40 minutes. Terrence Moore slamming home a Juan Dixon miss. They had an 11-point lead with about six minutes to go in the game. It was one of those special nights of coal. There have been many of them at Xfinity Center over the years as well. Sold out house, 14,500, raucous. And when Morris slammed home that Dixon missed, you felt like the roof was going to blow off of coal. I was there that night and what happened in the final 54 and a half seconds

was sickening. Maryland was in control, up 90 to 80. And then Duke made their incredible comeback. The crowd on their feet. Williams goes down the lane to lay it in. Duke can no longer stop the clock. 53-5 to go. It's an eight-point lead. They need a miracle. There's one, Williams for throw. Three cut up to five. Now they need two more miracles. And Maryland will call timeout with 48.7 left. Missed them both. Tujan with a rebound.

It's a five-point game. He has the ball. Do you believe what you're seeing? Five. It's another three into two-point games. Holy cow. And now Holden will call a timeout. This is absolutely scary.

Maryland has played a brilliant basketball game. Duke hasn't been anywhere near the top of its game. And guess what? Duke's back within two at Colfield. This is painful for this Maryland basketball club. And you can see they've lost so much confidence. This young man right here is Jason Williams. He is going to stick a dagger in your heart.

He has had a horrible night in the first part of this basketball game. But he shows what type of player he is by not quitting. He is in two of the biggest shots. the game as well. That's incredible. The shot clock, of course, 35 seconds. The game clock is 40.4. Dixon nearly lost. Shoot basketball. Holy cow. Are you kidding? That is incredible. If he had made that, the five would have counted. It's incredible. This is one of the most stunning things that I have ever seen in a basketball game.

Maryland can hold it until the end. Hold, take the last shot. Nicholas, under 10 seconds to go, guarded by Williams. Shot clock is off, picked up his dribble. Are you kidding? Oh, this is incredible. Was down 90 to 80 with less than a minute to go. Maryland was in total control, and now we go to overtime.

That's incredible. The great Mike Patrick and Brad Dordy were on the call that January night 2001. The game wasn't over yet. Duke had made this unbelievable comeback. The place was stunned. It was like the air had been taken out of the building. And I'll never forget the feeling that there was no chance they were going to win an overtime. But it wasn't like you were leaving quite yet. Sticking around for the overtime, it went back and forth. And Marilyn had a chance after Duke missed a free throw.

Dixon's got the ball here at the end, and you'll hear how Mike Patrick and Brad Dordy called Maryland's final attempt to tie the game. It's 16.4 seconds left. A three would win it for Maryland. There we go. Dixon. Dixon into the line. Oh, Bavito Rossin. It's the most remarkable comeback I have ever seen. And it was over. 98 96 final. It was a stunner. It was one of the worst gut punch losses for any team that I've ever rooted for that I can ever remember. But it was the first of what turned out to be four epic games between the two teams. Maryland would go to Durham, to Cameron Indoor, on Shane Badey and Nate James's senior night. And Juan Dixon put together one of the great performances in Cameron Indoor by an opposing player, Evory, at 33.6 steals. said it was the best performance by an opposing player in that building that he could ever remember,

and they spoiled Maryland did that senior night. But then it extended into the ACC tournament where they played in the semifinals. I'll get to that one in a moment. And then again, into the final four where Duke rallied from 22 down to beat Maryland in the final four, 95 to 84. It was an incredible run of games between two teams in that league, and it really was the in the moment, the rivalry in college basketball. North Carolina would end up being down the next few years with Matt Dordy at the helm, and Duke and Maryland really emerged as the two teams. Duke would win the national championship that year.

Maryland would win it the next year. They had that final four matchup as the fourth and final installment of that 2000-2001 season, which started with that game 20 years ago tonight. It was an incredible game, an incredible memory, a terrible memory. to watch that happen. But it is, as I think back on that season, it was such a special season, such a special set of games against Duke that year. Maryland lost three of them. The only one they won was at Cameron Indoor. The best of the four, and I'll leave you with this, I thought, the highest quality game, eight, nine pros in each of these games, you know, not elite pros necessarily,

but Maryland had three or four guys that ended up in the NBA. Duke had three or four or five guys that ended up in the NBA. Guys stuck around longer. These were high-quality games. I thought the best game of the four, though, was the ACC tournament semifinal at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta. And this is how Mike Patrick, who was on the call for this one, but this time with Dick Fidel, this is how they called

one of the most frantic, incredible endings to any of the four games that these teams played. Nobody took a timeout, and you'll hear it. Maryland down three Blake scores, then Duke scores, and then Dixon nearly knocks in a half-court shot at the buzzer. That was a great stretch of college basketball games between two rivals to really, really good teams in this sport. By the way, Maryland plays Wisconsin tonight.

This would be another big win for Turg, if you can pull it off. Anyway, so long for the day back tomorrow. 82.79, 16 and a half seconds to go for the right to play for the championship. They need a three. You don't want to get a look at that three. And Blake will take out. What a shot. What a big dream I missed a Blake.

Now Duke for the chance. Williams down the late. Mr. Shepard! Get him. My name, Jay. My name James. What a finish. Dixon. It's awesome, baby. What a game. Duke, Carolina for the level-upon scene and the ACC Championship.

What a game. What an incredible game. That is just remarkable. Duke that year. Maryland lost three of them. The only one they won was at Cameron Indoor. The best of the four. review with this. I thought the highest quality game, eight, nine pros in each of these games, you know, not elite pros necessarily, but Maryland had three or four guys that ended up in the NBA. Duke had three or four or five guys that ended up in the NBA. Guys stuck around longer. These

were high-quality games. I thought the best game of the four, though, was the ACC tournament semifinal at the Georgia Dome in Atlanta. And this is how Mike Parenthood. who was on the call for this one, but this time with Dick Fytal, this is how they called one of the most frantic, incredible endings to any of the four games that these teams played. Nobody took a timeout, and you'll hear it, Maryland down three Blake scores, then Duke scores, and then Dixon nearly knocks in a half-court shot at the buzzer. That was a great stretch of college basketball games between two rivals to really, really. really, really good teams in this sport. By the way, Maryland plays Wisconsin tonight. This would be

another big win for Turgh if you can pull it off. Anyway, so long for the day, back tomorrow. 8279, 16 and a half seconds to go for the right to play for the championship. They need a three. You don't want to get a look at that three. And Blake will take a shot. What a shot. What a big three by Mr. Blake. Now Duke for the chance. Williams down the lane. Mr. Sutton's down. Give me my name James.

What a finish. Dixon to win. It's awesome, baby. What a game. Duke Carolina for the level one scene and the ACC championship. What a game. What an incredible game. That is just remarkable.

Thank you.