The Kevin Sheehan Show - Sticking With "Commanders"

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

Kevin opened with the news that Washington owner Josh Harris disclosed that the team plans on sticking with "Commanders" as the team's name. Harris did however discuss a "re-brand" that will connect and honor their past with their future but was mum on any details. Kevin speculated on that and talked Myles Garrett's request for a trade as well. Maryland Basketball Coach Kevin Willard was a guest on the show. David Aldridge/The Athletic jumped on to discuss the shocking Luka Doncic for Anthony Davis Mavs-Lakers trade.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Josh Steve Weir from the Associated Press. Following up on John's question earlier, is it safe to say the commander's name is around just to stay? Is that safe to say from your standpoint?

Yes. And we're actually, I think it's now being embraced by our team, by our culture, by our coaching staff. And so, you know, we're going with that. And there it was, Josh Harris, earlier, today. We're going with that. We're going with that. Sure, why not? Let's see if 14 wins and a game short of the Super Bowl will allow us to get away with it. The show's presenting sponsor as always is Window Nation. Call them if you need new Windows

86690 Nation or Windonation.com. Two guests on the show today, none of them football related. Kevin Willard, the Maryland men's basketball coach. The Terps are 18th in the latest A. P. Poll. He'll join me in the next segment, and then David Aldridge will jump on with me to talk about the sports story of the weekend, the shocking NBA trade, Dallas sending Luca Donchich to the Lakers for Anthony Davis. But we start with Josh Harris's comments in his season-ending press conference earlier today. Now, he did talk about other things like the team's incredible season and the latest on the stadium, but nothing was as clear in his communication today as they are sticking with the commanders as the team's name. He did leave a bit of an olive branch, I guess you could call it,

and something that he said relating to the team rebranding, and I'll get to that in a few minutes. But as far as the name goes, look, this season's success. unexpected, put them in position to roll the dice, you know, with a level of hope and probably a level of confidence that they can get away with the current name right now. You know, I want you to hear both of the sound bites related to the name from the presser today because what I played for you coming in was later on in the presser. It was Stephen Wino from the Associated Press, asking him, to kind of further, you know, define or declare what he had alluded to in his very first answer of the press conference when John Kime asked him about the name.

Yeah, they got to it right away. John Kime did with his very first question during the Q&A. I want you to listen to the entire answer. I'm going to cut out the very end, but you'll hear it, but I'm going to cut out the very end to talk about in a few minutes, Because the very end of this, you know, answer from Josh Harris that kicked off the Q&A portion of the presser was an indication that while the name isn't going to change, the branding might. But anyway, here's how it went, Kime kicking off the Q&A with Josh Harris. John Kime, ESPN. So may as well get this one out of the way first.

It's become a topic again. But what plans, of any, do you have about with rebranding, whether it's name, Jersey, and how does winning, impact how you view that situation? Yeah, so just to hit the name first, like we're focused on, we're back to saying, you know, what we said all last year, which was focused on winning football games, I getting prepared for next year on fixing up Ashburn and the stadium. We could talk about that. And then on engaging with the community of Washington.

And so right now, and now in this building, the name commanders mean something. It means that, you know, it's about players who, you know, are love football, our great at football, hit hard, mentally tough, great teammates. And so it's really meaningful. That name is growing in meaning. And so, but as far as rebranding and bringing our past, you know, which obviously I grew up with and all the Super Bowl championships and our future together, You're going to see us head back towards, you know, honoring our past and bringing it together with their future.

So I'll get to that last part in a few minutes, you know, where he's talking about a rebrand and honoring the past and bringing it into the future. And I'll speculate a bit on what that means. I do think that that was a bit of an olive branch, a bit of, hey, I know I'm giving you guys some bad news. A lot of you some bad news. But, you know, there are some things we're going to do, you know, with the brand. The first part of what he said I'm going to focus on right now, the name. It wasn't convincing in style, in my opinion, but it was convincing in words, not as convincing as the answer that he gave to Stephen Wino, the one that I played coming in to the show,

which I will play again here momentarily. But, you know, he starts off this answer to John's question, giving an answer that I thought I was like when I first heard it because I was listening to it live, we were carrying it live on the radio show. I'm like, oh, he's about to give us the same answer. He's given us every time. Right now we're focused on winning games. We're focused on the stadium and getting a new stadium. We're focused on engaging with the community in Washington. But then came the new information. when he says right now in this building, the name commanders means something. It's about players who love football, are great at football, hit hard, mentally tough, great

teammates. It's really meaningful that the name is growing in meaning. That last part, the name is growing in meaning, was the moment where I said to myself, self, it's over. This name is sticking around. Of course, he didn't say anything about what commanders means outside of the building. He was very sure to sell it to pitch it as right now in this building, the name commanders means something. And then, you know, the players, it means players who love football are great at football, hit hard, mentally tough, great teammates. Okay, whatever. All due respect. to the owner. The players are not your customers. The people in the building think commanders

mean something, okay, but they're not the fans. They're not the customers. I thought it was somewhat significant that he didn't try to sell this as what the fans want, because that would have been a very tough sell. You know, I would guess the numbers still aren't there. Now, the numbers are probably different than they were before the season in terms of, you know, people in favor of commanders versus the overwhelming majority who were against it. You know, I would think that winning impacted some of the numbers, but not enough for him to say this is what the fans of the team want. And that was probably best that he didn't say that.

You know, he said on two different occasions, by the way, that, you know, it's the people inside this building. The question that I came into the show with from Stephen Wino of the Associated Press, that this is something that means something to the people inside the building, not outside of it. Let me play that for you again. You've already heard him say that to John. And then a few minutes later, this was the exchange with Stephen, the one, again, that I played coming into the show. Josh, Steve Winer, from the Associated Press.

Following up on John's question earlier, is it safe to say the commander's name is around just to stay? Is that safe to save from your standpoint? Yes. And we're actually, I think it's now being embraced by our team, by our culture, by our coaching staff. And so, you know, we're going with that. And so, and then he kind of stumbles around a bit, like we all do, we're going to go with that. Sure, why not? We're going to give this a try. Look, the answer that he gave is a name change nail in the coffin. You know, when he's asked, is it safe to say that commanders is staying? He says yes.

Then he alludes to it being embraced by the team and the coaching staff. Doesn't say anything about the fans. Doesn't say anything about past fans, customers, past customers. And look, from his standpoint, I think he says, smart not to present it in a way that would have been inaccurate. If he had said this is what our players, coaches, and fans wanted, he would have been asked for the proof, and they probably don't have it. So I think it's smart by him not to overreach or over-explain.

You know, keep it to what they know to be true, which is, you know, inside the building, or at least, you know, he's going to present his truth. inside the building, you know, I think it's now being embraced by our team, by our culture, by our coaching staff. So we're going with that. All right, back to the second part of his answer to John's question about the rebrand. Let's play that part as a standalone, and I will speculate a bit on the specifics of that. But as far as rebranding and bringing our past, you know, which obviously I grew up with and all the Super Bowl championships and our future together, you're going to see us head back towards, you know, honoring our past and bringing it together

with their future. So this part of the answer to me is, hey, don't focus on what's over here in this hand that we're sticking with commanders. Look over here. You know, we're going to rebrand. We're going to bring back our past. You're going to see us head back towards honoring our past. and bringing it together with our future.

Now, there were no specifics about this, and no one followed up on this. But this is what I've been talking about for seven, eight, nine months now. You know, when we talked about the name over the last nine months, I said, look, I feel even stronger that if something's done, it would be about the uniforms, the brand. You know, that's where I think they will do something for sure. You know, on the name, I always wanted it.

I had, you know, a hunch that something would change, but it doesn't look like it is. But it does look like something will change with respect to the brand. And again, no specifics on this. My guess, it's uniforms. You know, eventually they're going to go back to something that looks like the old uniforms and looks like the old team, that stuff takes time to happen. You know, the manufacturers of these uniforms, how many are out there, you know, there are league rules around this. So maybe we don't get this next year. Maybe we get, you know, an alt uniform throwback next year and then

something more permanent after that. But I don't know anything for sure. You know, and as far as the logo goes, I have no idea if that would be a part of it. Here's the thing, you know, kind of netting it out. 12 wins in the regular season. Two thrilling playoff wins that got them to within a game of the Super Bowl. This just made it easier to stick with commanders. I think it's a risk for them to stick with it even after this incredible season. Because despite this unbelievable season with the all-time greatest rookie quarterback season,

they didn't sell out all of their games. They didn't get good local television regular season numbers, 21st in the league. You know, those things are big tells on just how much of the fan base actually did re-engage. But I'm sure there are other results, other metrics out there that are very encouraging for them. Merchandise, ticket sales certainly were up from where they expected them to be at the beginning of the season. there's no doubt the tent grew. We all know that.

I know that from just the response to this podcast, especially over the last month, month and a half. Look, they held off on doing anything right away, and on some level it paid off for them because they got the big season they were hoping for, which gave them a chance to consider sticking with the path of least resistance. both financially and otherwise. You know, this was always going to be tough

because Redskins wasn't an option. Nothing they would have come up with would have satisfied everybody. And as I've talked about, they also have a younger fan base in mind, one that perhaps doesn't care as much about the name, and they have a lifetime spending ability that is much greater than most of us have left.

I'm not happy about it. it. I personally don't think it's the right decision, but I'm also smart enough, not brilliant, but smart enough to know that I don't have anywhere near the information they have. And it's not my money that would be spent to make another huge change. If they had gone six and eleven this year, I think this might be a different conversation that we're having. But just something as simple as the conversation that seems like one that any one of them out there could have been having kind of explains maybe where they are right now. Imagine they're having a conversation and somebody says, yeah, but are we really going to be, you know, looking back and saying

Jaden Daniels, his rookie season, all-time great, that one was as a commander. And then he became a Red Wolf or a Red Hog or a Washington-Four. football team member. Imagine, you know, the playoff win over Detroit, which we will see forever, and it's the commanders. And the next time we're in the playoffs, or maybe we win a Super Bowl, as the Redhogs or the Washington Football Club. Those are conversations, I'm sure, that we're taking place after this season and the success that they had that, you know, are hard to answer. There was never an easy solution. And the best year, the franchise has had in 30 plus years took the focus off of the name enough so that they felt

comfortable moving forward with the status quo. I know a lot of you are pissed, man. I know you are. I could have taken calls today on radio for hours. You know, I started to just read some of the tweets and emails to bring them to the podcast, but I mean, there were just so many of them. overwhelming. I know how you feel. I haven't changed my mind. I still think doing something about it would have been better than not doing something about it, but that's, you know, that's my finger on the pulse

of a big portion of the fan base, but without enough information to know for sure. You know, on some level, they are going to do something about it with whatever this rebrand thing is, uniforms or whatever. It's just not going to be with the name. But this is what they're doing. They're sticking with it. And I understand the emotional attachment that will remain for many of you, you know, detached. It was an incredible run. It meant a lot. It was visceral. It was, you know, it was part of our DNA. And it doesn't feel like that and hasn't felt like that. For me, I loved watching the team this year. I love Jaden.

I really like Quinn and Peters and so many others from what turned out to be a very likable team. So I'm somewhat fond of this group and the season that we watched, but I'd be lying if I said I feel emotionally attached like I used to. Anyway, not sure what else to say. Obviously, my hunch over the last year and a half that it would change. change was wrong, although I knew that the success that they were having as this season went along put that hunch at risk. Look, I look forward to hearing more about the rebrand stuff at some point. I'll stay tuned on that. In the meantime, I'll talk about the team. And how about

this news today? Miles Garrett asked to be traded today. He posted a trade request. He posted a trade request on social media. Basically, he said he's tired of losing, wants to go to a team with a better chance to compete for a Super Bowl than the team he's been on for the entirety of his NFL career, the Cleveland Browns. So, Miles Garrett may be available. Of course, we should be interested in Miles Garrett. He's 29 years old.

He'll be 29 for much of next year. He has been one of the best players in the league on either side of the ball. You could argue he's been the best defensive player for several years now. He just finished his eighth season, 14 and a half sacks, second in the league. He was sixth in pass rush win rate this year. And he plays, let's face it, a premium position still in the league, which is defensive end, edge, rusher, Edge, run stopper. He is an incredible player. He's got two years left on his contract,

the current deal that he has. He's going to cost a premium price. There will be more than just one team interested. I would certainly think that at the very least, Washington would have to part with their first round pick, number 29 overall, another pick, maybe a day two pick, and perhaps a player, a player like, say, Duran Payne. Will Cleveland oblige him? I have no idea whether or not they will do so. There have been a number of restructures to his contract, which means the dead money cap hit for the Browns next year would be very high at $36 million. They can split that up over two years, but still, that is a big dead cap. number that they would have to absorb. The team that trades for him, it's not going to be that difficult financially. They'd have to pay the team that trades for him. Let's say it's Washington,

just under 20 million in 2025 and just around 25 million in 2026. Now, if you end up trading a boatload for him, you probably want to extend him. That would make sense to me. But if he's looking for a team that potentially can contend for a Super Bowl, Washington's got to be one of those teams now. They were one of the final four teams this year with the best quarterback in the NFC, not the conference he's played in. Playing in the AFC means that you've got to be on a team with either Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, or Josh Allen,

and there's no guarantee that you can get past Patrick Mahomes, even if you are on that team. Of course I'd be interested. Yes, I would part with their number 29 overall, a day two pick, and say, Duran Payne. In a heartbeat, I would. They have to get better defensively to run down Philadelphia. The Eagles are the target.

They've got to create a roster that gets them, roster-wise, talent-wise, at a level that gives them a chance to win more games than Philadelphia does next year, win the division, so that, A, they can host every playoff game, B, they might be able to avoid Philadelphia if they win the division in Philadelphia ends up as a wild card and has to play on the road

a game or two before coming to Washington. Miles Garrett would get them there. Dominant player for many years. it would be very interesting to see him in a Washington uniform. Do I think it's possible? Yes. In fact, a lot of the odds out there already have Washington is one of the favorites to land Miles Garrett.

God, man, that would be something else. That would really be something else. He has been one of my favorite players to watch for a long time now. A couple of other things real quickly. David Blow, the Washington Assistant Quarterbacks coach, was blocked from interviewing with the Jets over the weekend for their quarterback coach job. Tevita Pritchard right now is the quarterback's coach, and David Blow is the assistant quarterback's coach. Washington blocked him from interviewing for that job. Why? I've talked about David Blow before. They think he's a star. Everybody in the league thinks David Blow is.

an eventual offensive coordinator and potentially a head coach. They can block him, by the way, because he's not interviewing for an OC job. If he was being interviewed for offensive coordinator, that's too big of a jump up from where he is now. They would not have been able to block that. OCDC head coach, you can't block. You can block for something approximating a lateral move, even though he's the assistant quarterback's coach right now in Tevita Pritchard. is the quarterback's coach, it's too lateral.

They had the ability, per the CBA, per the rules, to block that. And look, if Tevita Pritchard gets hired and he interviewed for the Jacksonville OC job, and maybe that's already passed by the time you listen to this, but he could become the quarterback's coach this year. And I do think they view him as a potential OC to Cliff Kingsbury, if Kingsbury ends up leaving, let's just say, after next year. year if they have another big offensive year and a successful year as a team. One other quick thing, and then we will get to Kevin Willard, the NFL's considering,

according to Mark Maskey, to going to an 18-game schedule, potentially within the next three years. The CBA runs through the end of this decade, but they could amend the CBA. and Maski writes, there's growing conviction among NFL team owners that an 18-game regular season will be implemented through an agreement between the league and the NFL Players Association before the expiration of their current labor deal. And there are hopes among some that it could occur within the next three years. There's a quote here from a person familiar with the owner's views speaking on the condition of anonymity. quote, that's something that I think has a chance of happening. No question. It just depends maybe in the next two to three years. Keep in mind, if we were in an 18 game schedule, we'd still be in the playoffs right now. We would be entering the divisional round, the final

eight of the playoffs, because the assumption I have is that an 18 game schedule would come with two-by weeks, so it would be played over 20 weeks, so we would be still in the postseason. Last weekend would have been wildcard weekend. This weekend would have been divisional round. Then the following weekend would have been championship weekend. And then you would have had the Super Bowl two weeks later, which would have been the end of February. Now, I think if they go to 18, over 20 weeks, they start the season Labor Day weekend so that you get a President's Day weekend. Super Bowl.

Anyway. All right. I think that is it. Football-wise, name-wise. Look, we don't really have to talk about it anymore. He told you today, he ended the conversation. They're sticking with commanders. They are going to, yeah, we're going to go with that for right now.

So really what's next on this? would be some information down the road about the rebrand. And as far as the stadium goes, you know, the one significant thing he said is, look, we wanted to get D.C. to the table. D.C. is at the table now. So is Maryland. I think it'll be D.C. We'll see. But we did not get anything in terms of a major update on the stadium. All right. Kevin Willard, the head basketball coach of Maryland next, after these words from a few. of our sponsors. It's a new year. It may be time for new gutters. Whether you're tired of

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Ohio State. Kevin, first of all, I just want to start with the rankings because I just saw the AP poll come out. You guys are 18. Fans like me complain sometimes when we think, you know, we should be ranked and we're not. Is it as big of a deal for you? It actually is, yeah. I think it validates a lot of what you're trying to tell your team. So from that standpoint, when, you know, in the new era of college athletics, and you have pretty much a new team every year, for them to see the reward of the hard work, of the dedication,

you know, breaking through some road wins, getting some big home wins, I think it just validates everything that you're trying to preach to your team. Are you able to do that, though, with net rankings and Kempom numbers, because you guys have been awfully high in both of those pretty much the entire year. Yeah, I mean, for Kempom, it's funny. I use Kempom a lot about, like, you know, where we are and strength of schedule in conference. So, you know, we lost, you know, at Washington, we lost at Oregon early, but, you know, it's like showing the team, like, hey, here's where we're at, here's where we need to go. Here's our defensive numbers.

Here's our offensive numbers. here's what we've got to build on. So Kempom is a very good tool if you know how to decipher it and you know how to break it down. Yeah, for sure. What do you know about your team right now in early February that you didn't know before the season started? You know what? They have a really good team attitude. I think that's, you know, I don't think any, we don't know what you have for the most part anymore.

You know, you do your best, you go out and get your best guys that you can afford. go get. And, you know, you try to put, make sure that you're getting guys coming from winning programs, you're getting guys that have great attitudes. But I think the biggest thing is that, you know, all these guys have had to sacrifice a little bit of minutes, a little bit of scoring. But their team attitude has really been very resilient and being great to coach. So it's something I, you know, you hope that you have, but I've definitely learned through

the last month, you know, what a resilient group and what a fun group they are to coach. You know, you just said something. just odd to hear, but you hear it all the time now. We're starting to get used to it. You know, you go out, the team changes year to year, and you go out and get what you can afford to get. So how are you dealing with that part of it? Yeah, it's been, I'll definitely say there's a huge learning process in this part of college athletics now, and the fact that I think you just, you know, we started off, people, I remember my first Seton Hall team when it's, it became when it was legit, and they were selling T-shirts, you know,

they were printing T-shirts in the bottom of the dorm and trying to sell T-shirts. And now all of a sudden we're talking about profit sharing and spending $3 million of university money on these guys. So I think it's been a huge learning process for everybody. You know, I don't think we have it figured out right. I don't think the money's coming from the right sources, and I'm hoping as this evolves, that eventually will get to a much different model of the profit-sharing model. But it's been a learning process, and I think everyone's constantly evolving. Yeah, it's clearly challenging, but I've got to tell you,

and I think everybody's probably noticed this, you did a pretty good job with whatever the tools were you were given in the off-season, because you and I talked about this before the season started. I mean, great team defensively last year, painful at times offensively. I'm wondering, and this may sound like a ridiculously dumb question, but from a stress standpoint, an anxiety standpoint, just describe what it's like to not have to worry, not have to sweat over, you know, whether or not you're going to be able to score night in and night out. Oh, you know, I'm definitely, I'm not, I'm sleeping a little bit better this year, that's for sure. but I mean, it's something that, you know, the way the game has evolved,

and everybody now has four guys on the floor that can shoot, and we're still a little bit different. We're still a little bit old school in the fact that we have Derek Queen and Julian Reese, two 6-11 guys, you know, that can shoot, but are not three-point shooters. The biggest thing for me was like, I have two big guys inside. They're going to be able to get a bucket. I need to protect them, and for us to be the best team possible, we have to go out and we can't bring anybody in no matter what

that can't shoot the basketball. So from a stress release, I knew we were going to be able to score better just adding Derek to the floor. He was going to give us a second big man score, take a little pressure off Julian. But from the shooting standpoint, you know, it was, you know, we had some guys that came through the portal that are really good players that are having really good years out of places,

but would have really struggled here because they just didn't shoot the basketball at a high enough percentage to compliment Derek and Julian. Yeah, and, you know, last year you were scheming up open looks. They wouldn't go down. I mean, part of the question is just to get to whether or not it's more stressful when you can't stop somebody or you can't score. No, I mean, one of the worst feelings is, and, you know, you feel for the guy, you feel for your, the guy is more than anything. is when you run a good set and you get good ball movement, you set good screens, and you get a wide open shot, and you miss it. And the pressure that it builds on your team and it builds on the kids is that, you know,

they start missing. They don't have a chance to make a shot because the pressure and stress of making a shot has already blocked the shot. So this year, when we miss a couple shots, it's like, you know, there's no stress whatsoever because we know it's just a matter of time to a guy like Rodney Rice, Judge Colby, Gillespie, Selt Miguel, are all shooting in the 40s are going to make a shot. Yeah, no, that makes so much sense. A couple of players I want to talk about, and I want to start with Juju,

because his improvement, not just at the free throw line, which has been obvious, but I think just offensively all together where he's just kind of slowed it down, he's more patient, but just kind of describe the improvement from last year to this year with Julian Reese and how it happened. I think the biggest thing for Julian was we had to throw the ball inside last year. But we threw it in more than any other team in the country last year, more than Purdue. and it was to the point where it became so easy to guard us and it made everything so hard for Julian that at times it seemed like he wasn't playing well

even though he was playing at a very high level but because we couldn't make shots because he got double-teamed every time and because we threw it in so much he really really struggled at times offensively where this year because we shoot the basketball so much better and we have someone else that we can throw the ball into, he's getting much more one-on-one coverage,

and he does not have that stress that he has to make the right play every time we throw it down into him. So he's much more relaxed. He's got much more confidence in his free throw, obviously. So that's helped him. But I just think the fact that he has no stress where he has to make a play every time has really helped him.

I mean, the free throw shooting, though, alone is a remarkable improvement. I mean, it's almost unheard of. He must have worked at it tirelessly in the offseason. What we talked about and going into the off season was like, you know, if you could shoot 70% from the free throw line, he would have averaged 18 and 10 last year. And I said that would have been good enough for the first or second team all big 10. You know, Mike, you've got to make this a priority. And to his dedication, he made it a problem. priority. He was in the gym every single day working with a shooting coach and never, never wavered whatsoever. And it was phenomenal to kind of see, you know, it was really in the

first game. He made his first two free throws. And it was like, I think once he made his first couple free throws in the game, the confidence was just there that all the work that he put in the summer had translated to the game. But the stroke is different too. It's smoother, it doesn't have that hitch in it. Yeah, like I said, Kevin, I mean, he worked tirelessly on it. You know, I think that's also one reason it took a little time for his low post game to come back. You know, now he's dominating in the low post.

I mean, the percentage of what he's doing is it's almost funny concerning the fact what he goes through on a nightly basis. But it was just something that he worked on day in and day out. And he knew it was a weakness. And I give him a lot of credit. It shows his maturity. it shows kind of what he knew he had to work on. He never got frustrated.

He stuck with it. He is, you know, most people don't know it. He is a great worker. He loves being in the gym working on his game. He comes in early in the morning. He loves doing it. And I think he's just getting rewarded for his hard work. Yeah, it shows.

Tell me how important Gillespie's been to the success so far. Yeah, Jacobi's been, I mean, you know, he's, you know, he's, you know, so much, I mean, I thought I was hoping he'd be a good player. You know, when we lost, obviously when Jemir graduated, we wanted to bring someone in that wasn't going to have to do what Jemir had to do for us. And really Jemir was initiating offense, playing offense,

running every pick and roll, and it was just a big burden. We wanted someone, obviously, that was a high-level catch-and-shoe guy, which Chikobi was, was high-level off dribble hand-offs, because we do a lot of dribble handoff, what Chacobi was. But also we wanted to make sure we brought someone that was coming from a winning program and that was used to winning being in that spot.

And when he got into the portal and we brought him in, he was obviously excited about, you know, Jamir's 39 minutes being open. But I think the other thing was that he knew we were bringing in, you know, we had Rodney Rice coming in, we had Celt Miguel coming in, and it was more or less, I'm making a big jump

in conferences, but I'm going to have help. And he's just been phenomenal. He's a tremendous young man, a great worker, a great teammate, and he's just been huge. I mean, his national ranking is one of the best in the country, so he's been awesome. Derek Queen's season, describe where he is now compared to the start of the year. Yeah, in the first round.

Yeah. You know, DQ's been great. He's, you know, he has, He's had a couple up and downs. He's had some games where people like, oh, if he hit the freshman wall, and it's like, no, he plays in the Big Ten and plays in a very physical league. I think give him a lot of credit because he's kind of figured out what he has to do to be successful. And I think anyone would sit there and say, you know, he's obviously up there with any of these

unbelievable freshmen are playing college basketball right now. No doubt. I'm curious as to Deshawn's role because it's probably different than what he and even you expected when he signed to come here. How's he handling it? Deshaun's been phenomenal. He's turned into exactly what I hoped he would, which would be a point guard from a leadership standpoint.

You know, he is, obviously, he's really struggled shooting the basketball, but he has continued to have an unbelievable attitude, a great work ethic. and I think he's actually playing really good basketball right now because he's starting to figure out how he has to play, which is so much different than what he was able to play in high school. And sometimes guys just take a little bit longer to figure out how they have to play to be successful. And I think he's, from a leadership standpoint, he's figured out,

and I think from a playing standpoint, he's really figured out. I thought the shot he hit the other night when you guys were down 5-48-43 was massive. first of all, that he took it, and that I was just so thrilled to see it go in, because it's got to lift his confidence. Absolutely, and I think that's one of the things that he's learning is that, you know, he was never a shoot-first guard. He was always a drive, use his body. And now that college basketball makes you be a shoot-first guard at every position,

I think he's just now figuring out that he has to work off his shot a little bit more. he has to be ready to step in and take a shot. He has to be able to do other things. And I think him stepping in and taking that shot was exactly what we need him to do, and he's very capable of doing it. All right, just a couple of more for Kevin Willard. You've coached by my count seven NCAA tournament teams over your career. This certainly looks like another one.

Do you have a sense in early February, with nine conference games left before the conference tournament and before March Madness gets started in earnest. Do you have a sense at this point about your team? And I'm curious as to what you think of it. How good can it be? Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing that's hindered us a little bit, and I think it's something that as a staff are still trying to figure out there is that we've had three season-ending surgeries. this year to scholarship players.

And although it hasn't taken a toll on our rotation, what it's taken a toll on a little bit is how much we're able to practice. And, you know, luckily January was brutal with the amount of games we had to play. But now that we get in the February, the one thing I'm really trying to do is that we do have some gaps where I think we can get better defensively, just trying to figure out how to balance, you know, the fact that we only have nine scholarship guys to practice.

and keeping them fresh. But at the same time, getting them ready for a really fun February. We've got five home games in February. And then obviously March. So that's my biggest concern right now is just trying to balance out how we can get a little bit better defensively, continue a good groove offensively, with just a limited amount of bodies that we have this time of year. Yeah, by the way, the crowd was great last Wednesday night. Hey, guys, get out there. Rutgers Sunday at home at noon doesn't interfere with football. The Super Bowl doesn't start till later in the day. A week later, Iowa on a Sunday. USC's playing great. They're coming to town on February 20th, and there will be a big home game more likely than not on February 26th at home against Michigan

State. Need crowds like last Wednesday night. All right, you're on the road Thursday night at Ohio State. First of all, real quickly, you won two road games. The Illinois, game and then the Indiana game was a thriller. You know, I think you know, and the best part about you is I don't really think you give a shit, but the road record was being mentioned. Do you give that or did you give that a lot of thought going into those two road games? No, not at all. It's kind of, it's one of those things.

You know, we kind of looked at, you know, we played at Purdue, obviously a tough place to play. Coming out of the break, you know, like disappointing two losses that we've had on the road so far, for me is the Washington and Oregon. Just because I didn't think we played very good in those two games coming out of the Christmas break. You know, Washington's defense is very unique. The first time we were seeing it, we didn't adjust to it very well.

Oregon, we were up two with a minute to go and missed two free throws, and they made their free throws. And Northwestern, you know, again, you know, was kind of one of those things that our January schedule, I knew there was a couple games that were going to be really tough. And Northwestern was going to be one of them. But we were so close. We were knocking on the door. We had started playing better on the road.

And it's just one of those things. Once you kind of see your team getting better, I felt like the team kind of understood how we had to play now on the road. You know, I just went into those two games with a lot of confidence. All right. Last one, and it's about Thursday night, because when you played Ohio State at home in December, you had a 40-point lead at one point. The 33-point halftime lead was the largest in a big 10 game in like nearly 30 years. Does that game matter at all in terms of how you prepare for Thursday night because it was so long ago? No, it's A, it's so long ago and B, you know, if you look at they've won at Purdue.

Really handled Iowa. They were 30 against Iowa. Went away at Penn State. and won, and then really had a chance to win out of Illinois last night. They were up most of the game. Yeah, they're really playing well. I mean, Bruce Thornton's one of the best guards. And John Mobley is, you know, as a freshman, has just really, I think, taken their team to a different level. He's playing as he's playing as good as any freshman in this conference,

which is saying something because we have, you know, the two young men at Rutgers are great. They're a queen, but he's playing as good as anybody. So this is a game that's on the road. We're going to have to play really well to get a W. Thanks for doing this, Kevin. Always appreciate it. Guys, get out to College Park.

Five home games left the rest of this month into March, and the Terps have something special going right now. There's not a better atmosphere in town when that place is packed and the students are there. UMTurps.com for tickets. This is a really good team right now vying for the upper echelon of the Big Ten regular season. Thanks, Kevin.

Appreciate it. Talk soon. Thanks, Kevin Willard. Everybody. The Terps are a lot of fun to watch right now. They can beat you in so many different ways. It's unusual when teams can beat you with the three or they can beat you by pounding it inside. The Terps have the ability to do both.

All right. Up next, we will talk about the biggest sports story of the weekend, not even close, the trade of Luca Donchich to the Lakers for Anthony Davis. David Aldridge will jump on next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, prize picks is the place to go to for daily fantasy sports. I have the prize picks app. I'm one of the over 10 million members at prize picks where billions of dollars are awarded in winnings. PrizePix has made Daily Fantasy Sports accessible to everybody. You just pick more or less on at least two players and their projected stats for a shot to win up to a thousand times your cash.

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David's basically been with the athletics since it started, of course, covering lots of NBA-related news and a lot of D.C. sports, including our football team. But I have reached out to David to have him on the show to discuss the shocking trade from over the weekend, Luca Donchich to the Lakers for Anthony Davis. There was more involved in the deal, but that's essentially the gist of it. one of the more surprising and catching off guard everybody in the NBA community trades of all time. So let's just start with David. Why did this happen? Why did Dallas trade one of the best players in the game, Luca Donchich, at 25 years old? Well, I mean, the why is going to take a long time to figure out.

because, you know, for all of the talk, Kevin, about the talent, and the talent is, you know, indescribable. Luke Dodgers is one of the five best players in the league, like he is. That's not hyperbole. And he's 25 years old. That player never becomes available in a trade, ever, unless they insist upon being traded. You know, Kareem, I think Kareem was, I want to see, was 28 maybe when he was in, Milwaukee and it won an NBA

championship and said, I just don't, I just can't live here anymore. You have to me somewhere else. That's the only comp for someone this young and this talented and this accomplished being traded at that age. You know, Weber got traded to Washington, but Weber had played one year in the league. Like, it was

a weird thing with him and Nellie and just didn't get along. That just doesn't happen. You know, like, it just doesn't happen. So, the why is the question, why? would they do this? And I think the thing that hasn't been asked enough is,

how does an owner, or ownership group, say that they don't want Luca Donchich? Because that's an ownership question, Kevin. That's not a, that's not Nico Harrison unilaterally deciding that. He has to ask his boss. You know, like, what are we doing?

Can we do, can I do this with your blessing? And they had to greenlight it. They had to say yes. And that, to me, is the shocking, shocking thing, is that an owner would say, we'd rather not have Luca Donchich on our roster for the next 10 years. You know, we'd rather shorten our window of contending for a championship. Now, it's open right now. 80s hell of a player. He'll help them. But it's not going to be for very long. It's certainly not going to be for as long as you would have had if you had

if you had kept building around Luca Donchich. So that's the question. Why would ownership say they were okay with that. That is, to me, is the fascinating thing because that just doesn't happen in this league. People hoard the best players. They don't ever let the best players go. You know, it just doesn't happen. And it's fascinating to me that this happened, that this occurred the way it did, where you wouldn't even, like, well, I know I'm being, I'm rambling here, but you

remember, the Nats offered one soda $440 million. And he said, I'm good. Yeah. I'm good. And the next day, they said, all right, the auction starts right now. We're going to have an auction,

and we're going to, he's available to the highest bidder. And they put him out for the whole league to make their bids, and everybody made their bids, and they took the bid they thought was the best one. But they got, you know, three or four blue chip prospects, another two or three pretty good prospects. And that's what

you do when you have somebody as good as Juan Soto. You have to get a lot back for him. And they didn't get a lot back for Luca Donchitz. They got a Hall of Fame level player who's probably played his best basketball already in the NBA. Still really good. Still a really, really good player.

But he's 32 and he gets hurt a lot. You know? And you got one first round pick. You didn't get both of them. Like, how do you not get both of them? You know, it's fine for the Lakers to say, well, we don't know what Luke is going to do. I don't really care what your concerns are. I'm trading the best player in this deal.

I need the best, the maximum, you know, amount back for this player. And I'm shocked that they didn't hold out for that. Yeah, I mean, to me, the only explanation on that part, and I want to go back to the why here in a moment. I don't want to, I'm not going to let you up the hook because I want to know what you, you may not know the answer, but I want to know what your hunch is on the why. But maybe on the deal, it's like, look, if we don't go stealth, he's going to find out.

And if we don't like the deals that come back, we have to keep them, and it causes irreparable damage to the relationship. I don't know. I'm with you. It's malpractice based on what they got back. But let's go back to the why. What do you think?

What's your hunch? But that's, see, Kevin, that's the thing. Like, none of these things rise to, we have to trade Luca Donchage. Like, he's out of shape. He's always out of shape. He's been out of shape for seven years. And the out of shape guy took you to the final last year. You know what I mean?

Yeah. What are we talking about? You know, he drinks, okay. If it's a real problem, get him help. What's in rehab? What are we talking about here? Like, that happens? Brett Farber is the best player in the league.

He said, I have a, you know, I have a problem with Vicodin. I can't stop taking Vicodin. And they put him in react. That's what you do. Like, it happened. It's not cool. It's kind of uncomfortable for everybody. But nobody remembers.

They remember Brett for other stuff now, but they don't remember him for that. You know, so, so that doesn't make sense either. Not we got to trade him. Like, he's not the first guy that likes to drink. You know what I mean? Like, that's not, that can't be it. you know, so that, again, I keep coming back to, what possible reason could you have?

And there's nothing, it's not like there's any rumors about him doing anything illegal or anything like that, you know what I mean, it keeps coming back to, he drinks and he's not in shape. All right, well, I mean, those are not, you don't trade the, let's put this way. If you insist on trading him for those reasons, then, you can't care about the blowback if he finds out. You've already made the decision. You've already done the hard thing, which is we're going to trade you. We've decided we're going to trade you. And you can not like it and pout and bitch about it, but we're going to make the best deal we can

to trade you before next Thursday. And you throw it open and you find out you don't even know what people would have offered you. That's what's crazy. It's Luca Donchich. You can go to any team in the league and say, this is what I want for Luca Donchich. You pick up the phone, you call the bucks. I want Janice. That's who I want for Luca Donchage. And it's a fair ask. It's not an unfair act, right?

You go to Oklahoma City and say, I want Shea Gildes Alexander for Luca Donchus, and that's not an unfair ask. You go to the nuggets and say, I want Yokic for Luca Donchich, and it's not an unfair ask because he's one of the five best players in the league. So whatever you ask for, it's not unreasonable. Now, they may not do it, but it's not unreasonable for them to ask. So that's what I don't understand is you didn't even ask. You don't even know what people would have given you for him.

Yeah, that's the part of it where it's going to be really hard to ever explain that. Whether he goes there and succeeds or doesn't, whether Anthony Davis comes to Dallas, blows up and they win two titles, or he doesn't. In the moment, it's just so obvious they got completely fleeced in the deal. And it doesn't matter what happens going forward. It matters what you could have gotten in the moment, and they didn't get enough. Let me just throw one thing out there. And I don't think this is the reason, and it's an absurd reason. if it is the reason. I threw it out to Legler this morning because during the postseason last

year, I think, I know what Luke is and what you said is what he is. He's a top five player in the game. He's also one of those players like Hardin in which it's totally stagnant. It is a one person dominating the basketball playing essentially, let's find the matchup we want on this position and then let him go make a play, whether that's scoring or drawing the defense and kicking. And to me, just for me, it's my personal thing. I hate watching that. I don't think it's great when you don't make a defense work enough. And typically Dallas doesn't make a defense work enough except to guard Luca with one or two people,

but there are too many people standing around. And I questioned all last year. I don't think a team can win a title that way. They almost did, though. They almost did because he's that. great. And then, you know, there are other insufferable features of him. Like he is a serial complainer and whiner. It's going to be awesome to see him and LeBron together. But do you think that they might have said, or they might say, you know, there were basketball reasons for this?

I mean, look, I've learned that you never say never, so I can't say that you're, you're, thesis is wrong on the face of it. But I mean, what possible basketball reasons could you be talking about? He doesn't guard people? Yeah, no, we know that. He's bad on defense. Yeah, he's terrible on defense. And guess what?

They still were two games away from winning the NBA championship. You know what I mean? Like that doesn't fly. That doesn't make any sense. Except that they didn't win. Except that they didn't win. Yeah, well, they didn't win. They lost to a historically-in-lawed-hosted.

Yes, they did. They lost to a Boston team that has one of the 10th best record in the history of basketball. Right. Okay? You know what I mean? Like they won 60. What I mean? They went 64 in a regular season, and they won 80 and 16, I think, is their overall record.

You know, they lost three games in the playoffs. So that's an historically good Boston Celtics team. So there's no, it's not like they lost because they played a, you know, bad team. They played a great team and got two games off of them. You know what I mean? So that's not it. So, you know, so yeah, I mean, none of those, it just, there's no basketball reason that you could come up with that I would go, it's, that, yeah, that's worth getting rid of him at 25. You know, like, if, now look, if there, if, if the, if their medical people say, hey, this guy's knees are shot, and he's going to be out of the league in three years.

Okay. Yeah. That's a reason. You know, but that's, that's the only thing I can think of. that would make any sense is that there's something physically that they see that is catastrophic in terms of his ability to continue playing in the league for much longer. But the other stuff, I just, it doesn't make sense. And even, again, I keep coming back to all of that aside,

if you decide to trade someone that good, you have got to throw it open. And you've got to let Bill Duffy's one of the best agents in the game. Yeah. You got to let him help you make a great deal. You know, like you ask Luca, where do you want to go? Like we're trading you. Where do you want to go? Give us five teams and we'll get you to one of those five.

And then you employ one of the most powerful agents in the world to make that happen and get as much back for it as you can. I mean, to do it this way, just, I don't know, man. It's an unusual way to do business. Well, look, the Y is a head scratcher. The deal is a bigger head scratcher. That's really not, you know, explainable. So for you, I'm just curious,

as somebody who has covered the league forever and, you know, knows everybody in the league forever, and I think you wrote about this. So how big of, I mean, when did you find out? How did you find out? And then just, where does this rank on the all-time stunners? I was up. I mean, I was up because it was, what, was it, 12, 15?

Saturday night. So I was up, probably watching AUs, or rebroadcast of AUs game against the Army earlier that day. And then, you know, you see the alert about the trade, you know, this trade supposedly going down and everybody's saying, oh, Sean must have gotten hacked, right?

And so it was like, wow, did somebody actually do that? But then you look at it because, you know, by now, I know how to tell if something's real or not. you know, if it's a parody account or whatever, and it wasn't a parody account, and you kind of go, wow, but gee, you look at you, this can't be, right? And so you start making frantic phone calls like everybody else,

and you find out in about three minutes, this is happening, this is actually happening. So it was an interesting next two and a half hours, I'll put it that way. It was trying to figure out exactly what the hell was going on, and well into Sunday morning, and then, you know, the Fox trade happens yesterday afternoon, evening, and so yeah, it's been a busy

couple of days. So where does it rank on the all-time shocker list for trades for you? Yeah, no, it's a stunt. It's probably number one. I mean, in my history, again, I think about the Weber trade after a year, but there had been rumbling

that he and Nelson really did not like each other all year, right? So, but he was number one. He was the number one pick in the draft the year before. So that was a shock that they would give up one that after a year. That was stunning.

And it was the bullets that did it. It was even more stunning, you know? Yes. I remember being very excited about it, though. You know what I mean? Like, that was, that was, I remember that was above the fold in the Washington Post, right? Yeah. It's a big story.

So, yeah, that was a shocker, but this is more shocking because as great as we thought Chris Weber would be. and he turned out to be a great player, you know, but he didn't take a team to the finals, you know, at 25, and Luca has. And so, and for that to happen with nobody knowing about it, with no inkling, no rumors, no nothing,

you know, no Luca once out, he's tired of this for whatever reason. You don't want to live in Texas anymore, for whatever reason. You know, nothing was he, no, he was perfectly happy.

He was ready to find the extension. He was good. You know, he was going to take the Supermax and be fine, be in Dirk. You know, That's what he wanted. So yeah, this is probably number one, Alzheimer.

Like nothing, no, there's very few trades that you don't have a sense that is going to happen. And this came out of left field. Nobody had this. Nobody saw this coming. All right. Let's talk about real quickly what does it look like for the Lakers now this year beyond. Obviously, they have a 25-year-old top five players superstar, and they now have a future where maybe they didn't before Saturday.

night. And then what does it look like for the Mavericks? I think for the Lakers, it's simple. They, you know, they, they acquire superstars. That's what they do. That's their MO. It's been their MO for 50 years, you know? Like literally, I was, it stunned me to remember that when I went back that Kareem Trey was 50 years ago. Yeah. 50 years. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that was 1975. Yeah. Yeah. The year, by the way, we loved.

Well, our team, your favorite team and my favorite team, got swept by the Warriors in the finals. That's correct. That's correct. So that was 50 years ago. So they've been doing this for five decades. You know, and even further, you go back to Will, but I mean, Walt was kind of near the end of a screw when they got them. But still, they got them. So this is what they do. They go out and who are the best players? Let's go get them. And they figure out ways to get them, you know, Shaq. You know, they go on and on Pogasol. You know, they just Kobe. They did. They did. They go get the players that they think are difference makers, LeBron, Anthony Davis, you know, so that's their MO.

So now they have a window of the next five to seven years to put a team around Luca Donchitz that can compete for a championship, you know? So I don't think, I don't think LeBron's going to have to be traded or anything like that. I mean, I'd be shocked if that were the case. I think he'll be happy to kind of figure out, the best way that he and Luca can play together. It can be easy. Like you said, Luca dominates the ball.

Shooted it a lot. That's not. LeBron's never played with anybody who dominates the ball and shoots a lot. The closest thing would have been Kyrie. But Kyrie deferred to LeBron while they were together. Like he didn't dominate the ball. He became kind of a spot-up shooter. So he's never had anybody that always has the ball in his hands.

so they're going to have to figure it out. But they're two great players. They will figure it out. I don't have any doubt about that. They'll figure out something that makes sense for the two of them to play together. But they're clearly lacking severely in size, need at least to get through this season. They're going to have to make a trade by Thursday for a center. They need a center to come in and play that position for the next three months.

And then long term, they need to go get a better center because you can't get a good center right now for what they have to offer and trades. So, yeah, I mean, the process begins. You know, what LeBron does contractually will be very interesting to watch the next year or two. I mean, it's a year-to-year deal with him, you know, like it's not, there's no long-range planning with him. He decides if he's going to play another year and gets paid accordingly, but will he take less money way, way, way, way, way less money, you know,

in order to give them some flexibility. You know, that will be interesting to see how he handles it. And as far as the Mavericks, I mean, they're all in on now. I mean, this is their run is the next two or three years. And I think their reasoning, it's not, again, what they got back was absurdly small, but their reasoning for what they think they can do is,

if you look at the actual teams in the West that are at the top, almost none of them have done anything in the postseason. In Oklahoma City, it's got a lot of talent. They haven't won anything. You know, Memphis hasn't won anything.

Denver has, but that team has been depleted severely the last two years since they won the championship. You know, so all those teams out west, who are you scared of? Minnesota is not anything close

to what they were last year without Kat. You're not scared to play. If you're Dallas, Houston hadn't won anything. You know what I mean? San Antonio's young. Look, Oklahoma City looks really good. They're really good, but they haven't won anything. I know.

They haven't won a Dallas last year. Yeah, I know. They haven't won a playoff series of any significance. So if you're Dallas and most of the team that was in the final last year is still there, why would you not feel like you have a great chance to get back? It's not like you trade it Luca for three first round picks. that will never convey to you or that are going to be low-picks, you wouldn't got a really good player for him.

Like, now, you know, it all depends on Ken Annie Davis stay healthy. That's the absolute. There's nothing else that matters for the Mavericks, right? But if he can't stay healthy, defensively, they've got a pretty good footprint. They're pretty good. Him and Gabbard and lively. Yeah, no doubt. And T.J. Washington, they're pretty good.

Yeah. if Anthony Davis is healthy and available. Great job, but I'm going to ask you one question about our own team here before I let you run. Are you right now in this moment still okay with the way they're handling this right now in terms of their approach, tearing it down, tanking? Yes, absolutely. I mean, I get it. I mean, I've said this because, you know, Kevin, so many people have asked me this. that day.

It's very interesting. I've gotten this from a lot of people. And it's like, you know what, guys, rebuilding stinks. It sucks. It really sucks. Tanking sucks. It's awful. And if you can tell me a better way to build a championship level team,

I'm all ears because I don't see it. I've looked at every team that's good that's good now, and every team that's been good in the last five or so years. and if you can tell me one team that didn't tank, that didn't go all the way down and build a championship level team, not a playoff team, a championship level team, because that's what everybody in town says they want. They're tired of mediocrity. They're tired of chasing 38 wins. They're tired of the playing round.

And I agree with them. I'd be tired of it, too. All right. So you've made the decision. You're going to take it all the way down. Well, this is what it looks like. Yeah, and it's important to differentiate the wizards from teams like the Lakers or the Heat or the Knicks or the Celtics. They're not able to go out and trade for or sign in free agency a contending team.

It's not a destination, at least not right now. So you can't do it like Cleveland, OKC, Memphis, Denver, all of them. And it's not a strategy. I mean, how did Denver build a championship team? They took an out-of-shape center from Slovenia with the 41st pick in the draft, the second round, and he became the best player in the world. That's not a strategy. That's luck.

Now, kudos to that. They saw something that saw enough to take them, right? I'm not begrudging them that. But that's not how. You can't say that's how we build a championship level team. Have you seen enough from Kulabali, Saar? you know, et cetera, to think that they've struck on a player that would be a foundational piece for a contender five years from now?

Yeah, I mean, here's what I think. Like, the comps to me, let's put it this way, the best player on the, on the Wizards franchise that goes somewhere in the next five to ten years is not on the roster right now. I agree. I agree with that. Yes, of course. He's in college. He's hopefully maybe playing it.

Duke or Rutgers. You know, or more likely in high school. Right. Likely in a nice school. But of what they have, could somebody be the third best player on a contending team five years from now? I think to me, if you're looking for comps, like to me, if you're looking at Alexar, right? If Alex Sar becomes Jaron Jackson Jr., Jaron Jackson III, okay, that's a piece. Yep.

I can win with that. If Kula Bali becomes, I'm blanking on the. guy at Oka, uh, Dort, Lou Dord. Lou Dord. A, an outstanding defensive player who becomes a credible three-point shooter? Yeah, I can work with that. Now, I need somebody, I need a centerpiece. They can't be the centerpieces of a great team, but they can help you.

Yeah. Sure. They can help you. Now, I don't know. I'm, I'm not sure what Bob is. Like, is he a starting point guard in the league? I don't know. He's got a lot of talent.

He plays hard. I think he projects in two or three years to be pretty good, but I don't know what his ceiling is. You know, the floor is pretty high, but I don't know what his ceiling is. Do you have a high ceiling or kind of a mid-ceiling? I don't know. And Kishon George, you know, is a 3-and-D guy that, you know, if he's on a good team that plays defense could help you, right?

But I'm not looking at him right now as a foundational piece. But good to have around. He's got size. He tries to defend, and his shots not bad. So, but they need desperately to get a top three pick this year. Definitely, right? Like, they have to get a top of the six. This is one of those years that hopefully you end up with, you know, a true transcendent star.

Right, right, right. And you need another one after this. Of course. You can't, you know, because there's lots of, there's teams in the league that have Toronto's got a really, Scotty Bowers are really good player. They don't have any more good players. You know what I mean? So you need to, you have to do this again next year, and it's going to stink, and it's going to be maddening.

But if you add Flag or Harper or Bailey this year, and then next year, I don't, you know, adding to bounces probably, you're asking for an awful lot of luck to go like one, one, two years in a row, or two one or three one or something like that. So, you know, if you get them great, but you have to add another talented player in 26. But to me, this year, because the top three picks are really dynamic, I think all three of them really have a chance to be stars in this league, you got to get one of these guys. Like, it's going to be really hard if you're picking fifth.

Like, that's going to be a tough sell after a very, very painful season. Like, this is going to be, you know, maybe an 11-12-win team. That's about it. Yeah. They beat Minnesota. Saturday night without Anthony Edwards. Now, Minnesota had their top four guys up. Yeah, just a few guys out.

And they almost blew it, too. They turned it over at the end, and there was a three-pointer that they had to lose. Who's going to get dealt real quickly? Sorry, but who gets dealt before Thursday? I mean, I think Miami will find some place to put Jimmy Butler. I'm talking about, actually, I do want to find out. Yeah, who's going by Thursday? I mean, I think, I mean, I will be surprised if Valencian doesn't get traded just because people need centers.

Yeah. And he's pretty good. Ellie needs me. I mean, a lot of there's 12 teams that could use a guy like him to play center for them, you know, going into the playoffs. Because he's a space eater and he can shoot a high percentage and he rebounds and he's physical. Coosma, maybe. Brogden more than maybe just because he's on an expiring contract. I can't imagine there's a, like you can't let someone that's talent.

not and get nothing for them. I mean, you did it with Tyos Jones last year for some inexplicable reason they didn't trade Tyos Jones when you could have gotten something for him. Like Brogden can help teams. Go trade them to somebody and get a whatever you get for them. It doesn't matter, really. You know, at this stage of the rebuild, you just need to get more assets. So I would say Balanchunis, Brogden, Coosma, in that order of likelihoodness.

Kuzma's going to be a little. What can they get back for Kyle? I don't know. I don't think a ton. Like, I'm not, like, I don't look at this way. If they get a first for anybody,

it will shock me. Right. None of these guys weren't first, or first round guys, like they're not. They're good players, but none of them are dynamic players that you, that you say,

boy, if we get that guy, he puts us over the top for a playoff run. So, um, yeah, I don't think you get a, I mean,

it's all about second round picks. It's just about how many can you get? Can you get two? Can you get three? Can you get four? I don't know. That's the rub. That's where the rubber meets the room.

And Butler, I mean, in this standoff with Pat Riley, how does it end? Again, I think they move them just because they can't. This is untenable. You can't. You just can't proceed as a franchise with this hanging over your head. If you don't trade them, what do you do? You can't send them home for the rest of the year. The union will never allow that.

Like, he's healthy. to play. He should play. And you have to pay him, right? And then if you play him, he's going to be a distraction all year. You know, you just can't do it. At some point, you've got to move on. You've got to move on. And so there are, there's not a lot of teams that want them, but there's more than one. There's more than one that's willing to take the gamble for different reasons. And so my guess is whether it's Memphis or Golden State, one of those teams will bite and say, yeah, we'll take them, whatever, what the hell, let's take a shot. Let's take a run at it.

even if he doesn't sign after this year. Let's take a shot. So they'll get it done with somebody. They may not get back what they want, but at some point you've got to move on. Like you just can't keep doing this. Like they've got a pretty decent team down in Miami. You know what I mean?

Like it's not like they stink. They're pretty good. They just need to get out from under this drama and get back to, you know, doing what they do down there. David's got a book out with John Hollinger. It came out at the end of last year is in just a few months ago. It's called

the Basketball 100, the story of the greatest players in NBA history, the forward written by Charles Barkley. Thanks for doing this. It's good to catch up. Hope you're well. Absolutely, Kevin. Anytime, man. David Aldridge, everybody. Thanks to him. Thanks to Kevin Willard for coming on the show. Back tomorrow with Tommy.