The Kevin Sheehan Show - Still DE Or Edge Possibilities?

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Is there still a defensive end/edge possibility for Washington? Kevin talked about that along with more on Shedeur Sanders, the Caps, Nats, NBA, and Terps' recruiting news to open the show. Thor Nystrom/Draft Analyst joined Kevin to recap the Commanders' draft and more. Joe Maloney/Former VP of Public Affairs for the Commanders jumped on to talk about whether or not the DC City Council will eventually approve the stadium deal.  Go to zbiotics.com/SHEEHAN and use SHEEHAN at checkout for 15% off any first time orders of ZBiotics probiotics. Go To WindowNation.com. Buy 4 windows, get 4 free! Betting on sports? Go to www.mybookie.ag. Use code KEVINDC for a bonus! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Two really good guests on the show today. Thorne Nystrom, one of my favorites to talk NFL and NFL draft with. We had Thor on the show about a month ago to preview the draft. Thor will jump on in the next segment to recap the draft.

And then Joe Maloney will be my guest. Joe was the VP of Public Affairs for the football. football team and was a big part of the stadium effort. Joe's not with the team anymore, but Joe is an expert on the deal that was just done between the city and the team. And he'll let us know if that deal needs to be amended a bit to get seven yes votes from the DC City Council. The show's presenting sponsor is Window Nation, 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com, if you're thinking about new windows. This email from Jack to open up the show, Jack writes, Kevin, thanks for the honest conversation from you and Tom about Shadur Sanders. But Sanders going to Cleveland with five other

quarterbacks seems like a setup for a training camp cut or a practice squad season. What do you think? Jack, I think either one of those situations is a possibility. I think he could be cut as a fifth round pick. There's no real investment in Shadur-Sanders, and I think practice squad is a possibility as well. But something that I should have mentioned yesterday in our conversation about Shudur Sanders, I actually think the fit is a good one. Kevin Stafansky is the perfect coach for the way Shadur-Sanders plays. Stafansky, part of the Shanahan coaching tree, was with KOC, Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota, and coached Kirk Cousins in Minnesota. Stafansky's offense is, I think, the perfect offense for Shadur Sanders.

They're going to try to run the football. They're going to go play action off of running the football. They're going to go bootleg off of running the football. You know, the comp for Shadur Sanders, or at least one of them, leading up to the draft, was Kirk Cousins. Because Shadur Sanders is much more of a pocket passer. You know, he is probably more athletic than Kirk. I'm not suggesting that he is immobile because there is mobility there.

But he's not a dual threat quarterback. He's not a true, you know, extend the play kind of a threat. He's more comfortable in the pocket. And I think Stafansky's system, his offense, is going to be a perfect kind of fit for Shadur Sanders. And then you mentioned the quarterbacks, you know, Deshaun Watson's not a factor, certainly not next year. I think Flacco's probably the odds on favorite to be the starter right now at 40 years old. He led the Browns to the postseason two years ago, and he knows the offense, and he's the one with the most experience.

You've got Kenny Pickett and Dylan Gabriel, who was selected in the draft before Shudur was. I think Shudur's got a chance to compete for the starting job. I mean, it all depends on what kind of guy he is, and, you know, the whole situation surrounding him, but I think the offense itself is a good one for Shadur Sanders, and the quarterbacks that he's going to be competing with, you know, there's no Mahomes in the group. Yeah, I didn't mention that yesterday, but I think actually the setup for him is pretty good. But sure, I could see him getting cut. I could see him being on the practice squad when the season ends. There's just not a big enough investment in him with a fifth rounder to worry about where he ends up if he's not the clear-cut

guy or the clear-cut backup guy. I got this from Lars. Lars writes, where's the pass rush coming from? They did nothing in the draft. Is there another move they can make? Thank you, Lars, for that. Yeah, there is another move they can make. I mean, Trey Hendrickson is out there. And the angles did draft Shemar Stewart from Texas A&M. So they drafted at 17 overall a pass rusher or somebody they believe is a pass rusher. I'm not a big Shemar Stewart pass rushing guy. I think a sack and a half, four and a half sacks in total in his career is a bit

of an indictment. He's a phenomenal athlete. And he actually may be fine against the run. I don't know if they view him as the Trey. Hendrickson era parent. There is more, you know, out there that Tray Hendrickson and the team are starting to talk. But, you know, the free agent that's out there that would be a lot less costly and you wouldn't have to trade for is Zadarius Smith. He is still out there. You know, he played last year in Cleveland, got traded to Detroit after the Aden Hutchinson injury. He's

32 going on 33. He'll be 33 when the season opens up next year. He's been a very good pass rusher, certainly the two years in Green Bay where he was outstanding. And even this season in Minnesota in 2022 when the Vikings went 13 and 4, he was great. You know, last year, two teams, Cleveland and Detroit, with the thought that maybe Zadarius Smith's best days were behind him because he only had five and a half sacks in his first season in Cleveland in 2023, He did have nine sacks, two teams last year, five in Cleveland, four in Detroit. Detroit, obviously, after the loss of Aden Hutchinson, they were not great defensively. They were very good, you know, offensively.

But, you know, we saw in the playoffs just how, you know, how deficient they were defensively. And Zadaria Smith did nothing in that playoff game. He had no sacks, no tackles, no TFLs. I think he had one pass defense in the game. But would he be worth a one-year, four or five million dollar deal? Yeah, maybe. I mean, you know, you got to feel like he can be every bit of what Dante Fowler Jr. was last year. You know, I think Zadarius Smith would be a better run-stopping edge player as well.

But yeah, that move can still be made. By the way, when I was looking through sort of the available free agents that are still out there, A name kind of struck me as interesting. Zadarius Smith would be one. Nick Chubb would be another. Nick Chubb is still out there, and the Browns took two running backs in the draft. They took Judkins and they took Dylan Sampson.

And so that kind of is an indication that Chubb is not going back to Cleveland. Look, he is in a leap back when healthy. And even in recent years, he's still been pretty, good when he's been healthy. Of course, the issue is he's never healthy, and he's had serious injuries, but I would look into Chubb, man. What a fit that would be if you got, you know, a healthy season at a Nick Chub at 29 years old. Anyway, all right. One thing I didn't mention on yesterday's show, they signed Matt Gay, the kicker, and cut Zane Gonzalez. I just forgot to mention it on the show because it did happen before Tommy and I recorded the show yesterday.

But Matt Gay signs a one-year $4.35 million fully guaranteed contract. The deal could be worth up to $5 million with incentives. And by the way, that is one of the largest fully guaranteed kicker deals ever. Matt Gay. Okay, so Matt Gaye has had an... interesting career. He, you know, started in Tampa and really was excellent as a rookie in 2019, had a 58-yard field goal that particular season, but missed five extra points. Then he was with the Rams for three years, really good with the Rams, had his best season field goal kicking wise in

2021. He was 94.1 percent, 32 of 34, and was 48 to 49. on that particular RAM team that, if you recall, won the Super Bowl. Matt Gay is a Super Bowl champion kicker, having been the kicker on that team when Matt Stafford led the Rams past Tampa and then San Francisco in that really close NFC title game. And then, of course, the Super Bowl win over Cincinnati, in which in that game, Matt Gay was one-for-one on field goals and two-for-two-two-two-two-two-two. on extra points. He's got a big leg. In recent years, his issue has been that he has struggled on 50 plus kicks, but he has a strong leg.

He has kicked 58-yard field goals multiple times in his career. But last year's percentage of 83.8% on field goals, 31 of 37, all six misses were beyond 50. He did not miss from inside 50 and did not miss a PAT. The year before that, in the last two years have been in Indianapolis, he was 33 of 41, but five of those eight misses were beyond 50. He also set the NFL record that year with four kicks in the same game of 50 yards or longer to beat Baltimore on the road.

Matt Gay, the new kicker. I think a solid ad. You know, Washington's had some issues with kickers here in recent years. And, you know, this is the kicker, you know, barring an absolute horrible training camp, horrible preseason, the guaranteed money they're giving Matt Gay tells you this is going to be their guy heading into the regular season. Look, they were going to have to make a move. We had not spent a lot of time talking about kickers. but, you know, the Zane Gonzalez, you know, Austin, Cyber,

the situation Greg Joseph that they've had at kicker after, you know, Brandon McManus was let go because of the sexual assault, you know, lawsuits and allegations, which ended up being dismissed, and he ended up kicking in Jacksonville last year. But they needed, you know, a kicker. They're going to play some big games, and if last year is any indication, they're going to play, a lot of close games.

So they needed to add someone that they felt confident in Matt Gay is going to be their answer. All right, a couple of things real quickly, and then we will get to Thorneisdram. First up, the Caps tonight with a chance to eliminate Montreal in five games. Two reasons that it would really benefit the Caps to get it done tonight. Number one is Carolina's waiting. They eliminated New Jersey last night with a thrill. double overtime win in that series. They win that series four games to one. And look, Carolina is likely to be favored over the caps or Montreal in the next round. So you don't want

them sitting there, you know, resting for another four or five days as the series that you're playing in against Montreal gets extended unnecessarily. Number two is this. Let's face it. If the caps lose tonight at home, then the pressure really starts to build on them. If they were to go to Montreal for a game 6 on Friday night and lose that. Imagine the pressure in a seventh and deciding game at home. No one's blown more 3-1 series leads in the history of the game than the Capitals. So it would just feel maybe the pressure would be felt more by fans and people like me, media members, knowing their history. And hopefully a lot of the players on that team, there aren't as many left from some of the major playoff disappointments.

But man, it would not be great. It wouldn't feel great if the caps were to lose tonight and then have to, you know, potentially face a seventh and deciding game. Alexi Protis being called a game time decision by head coach Spencer Carberry. The Nats last night, man, I thought that throw by Dylan Cruz in the in the bottom of the ninth, that would have been a tagout at home to win the game. Instead, it ends up being the game tying run, and then we got the wild pitch from Kyle Finnegan on the next at bat against Trey Turner. Tough loss for the Nats, who have clearly been more

competitive than a lot of people gave them credit for before the season started. And the big reason for that is they are so much better offensively than they were last year. I watched a lot of NBA last night. I'm not going to, you know, sit here and spend a lot of time on it, but the meltdown by the Bucks in Indiana was epic. They blew a seven-point lead in 33 seconds in overtime. The whole Janus and then Tyrese Halliburton's dad situation was really unfortunate. You know, maybe we'll do some of that with Tom tomorrow. I'll tell you, last night, the Clippers Nuggets, which I looked forward to watch. was really disappointing. Jamal Murray was great. Yokic didn't need to go off point-wise,

but the biggest problem with the L.A. Clippers is James Harden. He is just not very good in the postseason, period. His regular season, free-flowing, you know, game in which, you know, he dominates the ball and dribbles the air out of the basketball, it just gets completely bogged down with playoff level defense. He's a train wreck, obviously. I don't think you can really win big with James Hardin in the postseason. I actually think they're a better team with him off the floor. Kauai Leonard is built for the playoffs.

James Hardin is the opposite of that. There are similarities between Hardin and Luca. Luca's just a much younger, you know, brilliant, you know, shot maker and scorer and playmaker than Hardin is. Hardin's going to go to the Hall of Fame. He's one of the all-time great regular season, scores, shot makers, playmakers. His game, like Luca's, in my opinion, even though Luca made it to the finals last year, it just doesn't translate to the playoffs. You can't dribble the life out of the basketball for 20 seconds and then face playoff level defense and expect to have great success.

Nick's Pistons, unbelievable game. Tonight you get Lakers, Minnesota, with the Lakers trying to stay alive, and you get another in what has been the best series so far. Rockets Warriors, the Rockets try to stay alive at home tonight, down 3 to 1. Last thing, real quickly, Maryland got a massive commitment recruiting-wise. If you haven't been following Buzz Williams and what he's done since taking over the job, he's got eight transfer portal players.

He's got a transfer portal class that has been ranked in the top 10 to top 15 of transfer portal classes. He had to because the whole team was lost. Yesterday, he got a commitment from a five-star guard out of New Jersey. He actually played in Indiana. the last year at La Luminare, but he grew up in Manusquan, New Jersey. Darius Adams committed to Maryland. He had committed to Yukon initially, pulled his recruitment, or pulled his commitment from Yukon, and committed to Maryland yesterday.

A five-star guard, he'll come in as a freshman, so that's two five-stars. Now, he's a high four-star in some of the rankings, but two five-star players or five-starish players in back to back-to-back seasons, Derek Queen last year, and now Darius Adams this year. Six-five guard can really shoot it. You know, with freshmen, it's hard because this is now an older players sport, but a really good get for Buzz Williams, who's doing an outstanding job right now, putting a roster together, which, you know, the initial Joe Lenardi Bracketology for next year has Maryland in the tournament as a 10-seat with all.

all of the moves that they have made. All right, do me a favor. Just rate us and review us if you haven't done it on Apple and Spotify. It really helps us a lot. Five stars, if you think we deserve it in a quick one to two sentence review on Apple. Follow us as well. Just hit the plus button or the follow button. That's a big help for us as well.

Thorneisstrom will talk draft after these words from a few of our sponsors. So, guys, if you're starting to notice your hair thinning when you look Can the mirror join the club? You're not alone. Life gets busier and busier and you don't have much time to think about it or do something about it. That's why I'm going to help. I'm going to suggest Hymns. Hems is a hair loss solution product. You can avoid jumping through a bunch of frustrating hoops and get access to treatment without even leaving your home. Hems makes treating hair loss simple with doctor-trusted options and clinically proven ingredients. You can choose from personalized chewable, oral, spray and serum treatments to find what works best for you.

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Prescription products require an online consultation with a health care provider who will determine if a prescription is appropriate. Restrictions apply. See website for full details and important safety information. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky if you want to bet the NBA playoffs or the NHL playoffs or look ahead to the NFL season with all of the futures betting opportunities. My recommendation is MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie.orgie.com. First things first, use my promo code, Kevin D.C., and they'll give you a cash bonus just for signing up with MyBooky.

And then you can start to look at all of the futures for the NFL next year. You know, how have they changed since the draft? I think we talked about this the other day, but Washington's division odds at My Booky have actually gone down a little bit. Philadelphia has become a stronger favorite post-draft than they were going into the draft. They're at minus 145 now at My Bookie, and Washington is at plus 212. Does that have anything to do with the draft? Maybe a little bit.

Washington, remember, only had five players selected, and they didn't get what many perceived to be their greatest need. All of the division odds, all of the conference championship odds, and the Super Bowl odds are all there at my bookie. They'll start putting up individual player props. Actually, they've got some right now player props for next year up. The MVP favorite is Lamar Jackson, followed by Josh Allen, then Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, and then Jaden Daniels.

So Jaden Daniels, right now, the fifth odds-on favorite to win MVP next year behind Lamar, Allen, Burrow, and Mahomes. Way ahead of Jalen Hertz. The five players that I mentioned, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Patrick Mahomes, and Jaden Daniels are the top five guys for MVP, and you've got to go a long way before you get to Jalen Hertz. Plus 810 on Jaden, so $100 wins $810 if you want to wager on him to win MVP. MyBooky.ag promo code Kevin, D.C.

All right. Joining me right now is actually one of my favorites to talk NFL and draft. We had Thor on about a month ago, Thor Nystrom. With Fantasy Football Weekly, you can follow Thor on X on Twitter at Thor Koo, T-H-O-R-K-U. So let's get right to it. How do you think Washington did? I think, and good to join you, Kevin. I think Washington had a solid draft. You know, last year was the smash draft, obviously, for Washington.

This one was more solid, I would say. but you hit a bunch of your need points. And I ended up grading on my curving methodology that I do with the draft rates. I ended up grading Washington with the C plus above average for the NFL for their draft class. All right. So why C plus? I think the values in the slots were solid but not outrageous, right? And so because of that, you know, again, you're ticking off your needs,

but this was more of a keep the ball in the fairway. sort of a draft for Washington. And in terms of that, I thought they did well. All right. Of the five players they took, who did you think was the best value pick? Definitely, Trey Amos. You know, at the end of the process, there was a bunch of media, people pushing him as a late first rounder. I wasn't quite on board with that, but I had him 43 overall on my board to get him at 61, especially when you would have skewed the boundary corner need in round one to get that guy. there. I mean, that's just fortuitous. So they had to be thrilled at that. One of the things that I love that you do every year with your top 500 prospects is you give a pro-comp for every player. So tell everyone who Trey Amos reminds you of.

He reminded me a lot of AJ Torel coming out of Clemson. And for that reason, you know, AJ Torell ended up going a little bit above this. But you have the very similar, or tall angular outside cornerbacks. They can get their hands on you and press coverage off the line. Polish players as well. There's a little bit of hip stiffness there and the lack of elite high-end speed, but very, very good players and physical outside corners who are well built. Before we get to the other four players, we've talked a lot about this this week.

They did not get a player at a need position that was very deep, least according to, you know, all of you guys heading into it. And that is, they did not pick an edge defensive end. A, were you surprised? B, was there any point in the draft where you thought they should have? I was surprised-ish, but circumstantially, when you get into each stop along the train station that they had, it makes a lot more sense. You know, for instance, round one, two guys they wanted Samar Stewart and Michael Williams, I'm pretty sure, for that. Those guys were long gone by that point. You're talking the two-way edge defenders that can also defend the run.

Washington was not interested in doing business again with another one of those one-trick pony edge rushers that piles up pressure and sack numbers, but you cannot trust them to hold their ground on the edge and set the edge and play team run concept football in your run defense. So because of that, those guys are gone. You end up doing the tackle thing, projected long-term starter. Now you can kick Coleman inside. That plays up his game, too.

And then you get to the second round. The guy there that I would have advocated for where they were picking is probably Landon Jackson. I thought he fit what they were looking for pretty well. However, Trey Amos just as good of a value. They're probably even a little bit better of a value. And then, of course, as you know, after the 61st pick, they don't pick again until 128.

And by that point, those edge rushers were gone. You had to do it with one of those top two picks, or else it was going to be like a physically limited grinder there, you know, that you weren't going to be guaranteed you could hang on the roster if you ended up taking one with the day three picks. So I think that's why that ended up happening. It was just circumstance the way the board fell. I never thought there was a chance for Williams in the first round.

I actually thought there was a chance that Chimar Stewart would drop to 29. but I'm interested in why you think they would have been interested. I mean, the lack of production at the college level, I know the measurables were off the charts. He obviously went 17 to a team that also has a need, especially given the Trey Hendrickson situation. We'll see what happens there. But did you like Shemar Stewart as a prospect?

I saw Shemar Stewart as a prospect, basically the direct inverse of the way that everyone else in the media did. He was forwarded as this high ceiling but sort of risky prospect, and if you came in, you just shined it, then you would have a shot to get a gem there. I didn't see him as that high risk but high ceiling type prospect. I saw him as a high floor, lower ceiling prospect. And the reason for that is the one area of this game that we know we're getting in the NFL, he's an awesome run defender.

Awesome run defender. I believe he was 97th or 98 percentile PFF in run defense, positive grade of run plays the last two years. Very, very good at that. That thing that Washington was looking for as far as set in the edge of playing team run concept football with the run defense. That's what Chamar Stewart gives you.

The thing with the pass rush, I don't know if that ever comes around. You're alluding to it, four and a half sacks over three years, and people around my neck is, Woods. I'm coming to you live for Minneapolis right now. Shemar Stewart was in, he was in discussions for the Vikings as well. You know, as far as if he got there, you didn't have the offensive line that you

want to maybe you go with Shemar Stewart. And a lot was made about evoking him to DeNiel Hunter. Another Eddresher would come out of the SEC and he, DeNiel had fallen down a bit because he accrued 4.5 stacks over three years in college, just like Shmar Stewart had. But with DeNehner, you had a much, much higher pressure rate in college, and you had the projectable traits as a pass rusher. Shemar Stewart, he is historically freaky, his athletic profile, the size and the north-south

south, right? That's the testing that he did during the pre-draft process. He got the perfect 10-RAS. People forget, though, he ducked both the agility drills. You have the north-south load there, and you have the projectable frame. You have the versatility along the line. The east-west up and the suddenness with that, I think that in part explains why you have not seen the elite pass rusher to this point.

You know you're going to get an elite run defender there. And I think you're going to get a worker bee type in pass rushing. I do not ever see Shamar Stewart becoming some elite pass rusher. I think that's more a really, really solid cock in your starting lineup for years, as opposed to the potential star that he was ordered at. Yeah, the motor was great, but what you just described in the agility drills that he ducked is what you saw in the field. Like you saw a guy that didn't have great ability to sort of feel.

his way to the quarterback. He's like a straight-line track athlete more than anything else. But the strength in the motor made him a good run-stopper. And, you know, you nailed it in terms of what Washington actually really needed heading into this off-season more than anything. They got gashed on the ground last year. That was their problem. You know, they got good pressure.

You know, they had Fowler Jr. end up with 10 and a half sacks. they couldn't stop the run. So that's interesting perspective. You know, I didn't think that James Pierce, Jr. was even on their board, and my guess is that he wasn't because of some of the red flag stuff. That, to me, was fascinating. Do you think Atlanta needed to trade and what they traded to get up to pick him in the first round? I was stunned by the price that our friend, Terrible Terry Fonnell.

I paid in that trade. Yeah, and stealing from the future, in an attempt to save your job. I think there's a decent shot that Terry Fontno is not going to be around for that future he was stealing from. Do I think they need to pay? No, I don't. I mean, Jacksonville, they paid their next, you know, first rounder next year in order to move up to get

Travis Hunter. Now, that was earlier in the draft, and it's a smaller, you know, move up. But, like, the margins at that point are much higher. We didn't see another first round pick get traded. So for that to be the, and Atlanta gave up, I believe, the 47th slot, too. So, you know, you're moving up roughly 20 slots. Do I think James Pearson's have fallen to 47? No, but the urgency there, I totally agree with you. Washington wasn't picking him. That wasn't the need of Washington. Even outside of the, you know, the stuff that you hear about him in the locker room, you know, some people, they don't have a great feel for him as a teammate.

I don't think, you know, as far as like off-field stuff that's more cute than that, I didn't hear that stuff. It's stuff about just, you know, is James engaged here and stuff like that? And then the one-trick pony guy with the pass rush. It just was not what Washington was looking for. So, yeah, but beyond that, terrible Terry, just, yeah, he paid through the nose for that. Oh, yeah, it's not, there's a whole lot. Look, the draft is a total crapshoot. I think we would all admit that, you know.

We can't evaluate it really and truly for another few years, but they just don't seem to be getting things right. real quickly on Washington and the edge that they didn't select. I think in the fourth round, when they took Jalen Lane, the receiver from Virginia Tech, also an excellent punt returner, there were four edges that came off the board and the seven picks prior to him, David Walker, Jack Sawyer, Baron Sorrell, and Kyle Kennard. I have a feeling there were at least, there's at least one of those four, had they made it to 128 that Washington would have,

taken. Do you have a sense of whether or not any of those four guys had fallen to 128 they would have taken him? Yeah, your point's really well taken because it was the four of the five picks, just a couple above where Washington went where you saw bang, bang, bang, bang those edge rushers. And then after that, Q Robinson, who Denver took at the end of that round, you're not going to be arrested in him because he's the projectable potential pass rusher. You know, he was like the special team's cut, but not a run suffer. And then Braden Swinson, who was a steal there at the top of the fifth round for New England, but he is the one-trick pony pass rusher as well.

So again, like the profile that they were looking for, maybe the next guy they could have considered, ended up going in the middle of the next round, Elijah Roberts from SMU. He is that sort of power end that, you know, and the issue there is the lack of ceiling, but you do get the run defense and stuff like that from a power edge. But, yeah, I agree with you, Kevin. And I think that decision gets a lot more interesting if you don't have that mini edge run in front of you. And we might have a sliding door thing where if one of those guys got there, then Jaylen Mellon doesn't end up from Washington.

Go somewhere else and Washington takes an edge there. I have a feeling that if either Walker from Central Arkansas or Kyle Kinard from South Carolina had fallen to 128, they would have taken either one of those two players. But we'll never know. And they were not, you know, looking to trade up. They did have a chance, according to Adam Peters, to trade back multiple times out of the first round at number 29 overall. But they really liked Connerley Jr. They stood Pat and they took them.

What did you think of Josh Connerley, Jr. at 29 in the first round? I like to pick in terms of circumstantially where you're at. I felt like that was a fine audible. If we think that that two-way run defending edge would have been the top of the, their preference list. The audible in this direction, I thought, made a lot of sense. And I understand why Washington didn't trade back, right? Because at that point, you have Carlinley Jr. there, and then you have Josh Shimmons,

who ended up going with the last pick of that round. After those two guys, the tackle class fell off an absolute shell. Right. So if you wanted to address that, it had to be with one of those selections there at the very end at the first round. So they just weren't in a position to bail out to round two, because then you're going to have to go with another position and excuse the tackle, he often's a tackle position in this class.

You know, Peter said, Thor, that the offers included offers where they would have barely moved back at all. I think Kansas City perhaps was one of those teams that was looking to get to 29. And I just wonder, would they have taken Simmons there or would they have taken Connerley Jr.? Because he literally said, Peter said, we barely had to go back that much, but we just thought that, Connerley Jr. wouldn't be there if we had traded back at all. I'm wondering if the Chiefs had targeted Connerley Jr. and wanted to get to that spot to take him. Certainly a possibility, Kevin, and obviously Kansas City was in the 31 slot at that time. Yes. We also know the Eagles were attempting to move up, and they ended up doing so just the one

slot with Kansas City. But let's say that it is the Eagles, right? And let's say it would be back to 32. You know the Eagles aren't going to take the offense. to tackle, but then you have the one of their slot, and then you know the Kansas City well. And you have the two there. Presumably the fear is it's not just, you know, obviously they prioritize Connerley over Simmons, but if they were close enough where they would have been cool with one or the other, the issue potentially there is what if another team popped up with the Buffalo slot and all of a sudden they take one of those offensive tackles?

And then you're just out in the cold. I mean, Houston was a team that was lingering there that we knew was, sniffing around those offensive linemen. They had traded back to 34. That would have been one of the possibilities of potentially Seattle there at 35. Teams considering hopping back up into the first round. So, yeah, you would have been taking a big risk if you dropped to the end of that round because it could have gone bang, bang, bang right in front of you.

Now you're left out in the cold again. You have to audible to a tertiary position now. Real quickly on that portion of the first round, do you think the Rams would have taken Jackson Dart had the Giants not traded in front of them? I think there's a possibility. The Rams, they were the hardest team, I think, to mock this process. They're typically hard because they don't go, they don't evaluate under sort of our

traditional ideas of evaluation. They do not care about on-field testing whatsoever. They use the chips. And then they use their perception of the tape, right? Which it actually makes a lot of sense. It's one of those sort of common sense things. but because of this, they see the prospects a little different, and they didn't have, like, a cute-acute need where it was like,

we have to do this one position there. The quarterback thing would make a lot of sense. Obviously, we know what happened with Stafford over this off season. I don't think any of us expect Stafford to be there in five years or even playing in five years. So, yeah, you have to come up with your contingency plan, and that one certainly would have made sense. But St. Louis, I'm sorry, Los Angeles, the Rams there. Man, you had to feel awesome when you got that call from Terry Fontnau

to get that first round pick next year. because Atlanta, that is a franchise that could flatline next year. That could be a monster asset, so they'd be pretty happy about that. One other quick thing in the first round, and I do want to ask you about Washington's other players, but, you know, I love your top 500. I've told you that before. And I totally agreed with you on Tyler Warren. I thought he was, you know, a Brock Bowers sort of talent in this draft.

Were you surprised that Loveland went before him? You had to be, right? I was a little bit, although a couple days before the draft, I was chatting with one of Loveland's college coaches, and he told me, he said, Colson is the best player that I have ever coached. And when I heard that, I was like, oh, man, I wish I'd had this conversation before I put my 500 board out.

Right. I also had a shot to talk to one of the best returning defensive players in college football. And he also said Colson Leavlet is, was the best player that he faced last year. So when you talk to people that know football, the coaches, or the players that are on the feet, his teammates, I can't even begin to tell you what they say about them.

Everyone loves them. The people who have played against them, like I said, as coaches. And so all that different stuff, it's part of the evaluation process that we don't get, you know, a full view into. But the things I started hearing at the end of the process, it really started open my eyes. And the thing you need to keep in mind with Colson Love on last year

for people out there don't know the comments, contact. No quarterback. No quarterback whatsoever. You follow up with Jay J. McCarthy, some of the worst quarterback play that we had in the FBS. Meanwhile, Colson Loveland got banged up and was playing through injuries the whole time. So he was basically left out to dry and defense knew he was the only guy that Michigan could go to with the ball. So it was a tough situation. But eye-opening film in 2023 and pretty bullish on his projection for the next level. All right. Of Washington's other three players selected Jalen Lane, the receiver at of Virginia Tech, Kane Madrano.

the linebacker from UCLA who actually looks more like a safety at times, and Kroski Merit, the running back from more New Mexico than Arizona, because he only played one game in Arizona. Give me your thoughts on those three players, and then which was kind of the best value based on where they were taken? In terms of value, my favorite one probably would have been Kroski Merritt, who I did feel she'd go above that and would have gone well above it if the NCAA wasn't ludicrously punitive with him.

That was one of the most ridiculous eligibility things that I've seen in a couple of years. But we'll get back to him. Starting with Jalen Lane, the athleticism, it jumps off the screen. That's obviously an undersized receiver. But the athletic profile, you just look at the measurable, the athletic test of the frame. The most similar guy in the NFL to him is Tyree Kill,

just from that perspective. Now, we got to do some work with his game, of course, but the explosion speaks for itself. I think initially, when he sees the field on offense, you're looking to manufacture him touches short, maybe out to the beginning reaches of the intermediate area, hit him in space, hit him on hands in space, and then let him run. That's going to be it initially, and then you just see where you can go beyond that. You mentioned the special teams utility and the return utility.

I think we're going to see some of that as well. So I do like that player. For Washington, that was the sort of guy that you're looking for to help all with that wider supercourt. Kay Madrano, he is fun. Kay Madrano is super fun to watch. To your point, he does sort of exist on this line between safety and linebacker, and he's this waterbug of a linebacker who is always around the ball.

He triggers really fast, and then the movement, the initial first couple of steps, explosive downhill, and he flies around, he plays spearless. Love that, love watching that. He misses all kinds of tackles. when he's always there, like I said, mucking things up. But when he gets on the doorstep, a lot of times he comes in too high, he has a smaller tackle radius. He must get better breaking down when he gets on that doorstep

as opposed to just flying in like a bat out of hell. That's where he ends up slipping off guys and not getting the best of it as far as the on target tackle attempt. But a very interesting ball of clay there. And I think you can work with him a little bit on those tackles. I don't think you're ever going to be able to completely mitigate that issue. because of the lack of play strength and then the smaller tackle radius. But you know that he's always going to be around the ball.

So if we can just clean that up a little bit, we'll keep more fish on the line. And then lastly, Kraski Merritt, just the situation last year, it was heartbreaking even to watch from afar because this kid who came up from New Mexico and made an inspired decision in the transfer portal. You go and you join a team that had Noah Fafita at quarterback. And then, of course, Tetaroa and McMillan, one of the best receivers that we had in America. and what they needed was a running back to replace the guys who had gone into the draft of you before, Michael Wiley, and then one other kid. What do you want, Kroski-Mera comes in.

You get to play that one game. The eligibility issue was over a number from the year before where, like, one other guy in the roster had appeared in the game. Or during the retro year, it was the most ridiculous eligibility thing ever. So it was like they opened up an investigation to look into it. Then they never got back to him. So they literally just stole his last year of eligibility. that was something that had absolutely nothing to do with Jacori Crosky Merritt. He ends up falling here to the seventh round.

If he had been able to play last year, I think you're talking minimum fifth round, maybe fourth round, maybe even the back end of the third, depending on how well he plays, he certainly would not have been available in round seven. The thing that you don't get with him, it's passing game utility. We just haven't seen it. So that stuff is all sight unseen, but a very natural runner that makes people miss. I love the way that he moves and that suddenness side-disaged. side. You see a lot of guys, we were talking about whiffing on tackle at times. You see

Jacori Croski-Maric set a lot of guys up to fail at that point. So it's a guy that I think as a mix-and-match guy for Washington, I think he makes a lot of sense and he's got a lot of natural running ability. Whose draft did you like the most? The two I liked that I gave my A-plus to do this year was the Giants and the Raven. So we had one team that is always around that range and that one that never is. By the way, Baltimore is and the Giants usually are not. So with Baltimore, specific to Mike Green, I mean, I guess it's the organization that isn't concerned and will take chances on players with character issues. But did we ever find out specifically, was he just off boards across, you know,

a slew of many teams that had a need at that position? That's what I believe it is. Yes. There are some teams that will take you off for the specific things that they were looking into with him that had to do with the circumstances surrounding his departure from Virginia. There are teams that will take you off the board for that.

Howie Roseman was a guy who this, earlier this process made a real point to say we don't, we will not consider and we will not put on our board guys that have had issues with females in the past. That's sort of the domestic type stuff. Howie's not the only one.

Some of those teams don't come out and say that publicly, but we have several. And obviously, that is the reason that Mike Green starts to fall. Those concerns ended up being more problematic for the NFL then was reported during the process. I was hearing more about that stuff back with the senior ball, and then it just sort of went away. And so there wasn't as much reporting on it. And I thought that was because the NFL, when looking into it, had perhaps become more comfortable with it, at least their view on it and going forward that that wouldn't be an issue. But as you saw on draft weekend, there was a bunch of teams that indeed were concerned by that.

The Giants draft, so you obviously loved Abdul Carter, but you were okay with them moving into the first round to take Jackson Dart? I was. That was probably their decision that I was, of all of them, that I would have been relatively lowest on, but I didn't have the biggest issue with it, because they didn't pay through the nose. It wasn't like the Terry Fonton-No situation with the first round picnic shirt. I think the third was what they tossed in. But like with the trade charts, that was a fair trade. I had Jackson's on my board.

They end up taking them 25th. But I see what they're seeing there. And if they can just, the black box of Jackson Dart's evaluation, if they can address that, he's going to be good in the NFL and they will have gotten him at a steal of a price point. And what that black box is, the reason I had to knock him down, it's a concerning sort of a black box and evaluation for a quarterback heading into the NFL, which is we haven't seen Jackson dart making decisions after the

snap. By and large, it's the system that he played in for Lane Kiffin, yeah, you get the pre-snap reads for you, and a lot of times it was going to that first read. Very rarely, certainly the third read. He started going to the second read just a little bit more last year, but the

second or third read, depending, was always tuck and run. Right? Like, if he got to the second one, that one was in there, okay, we're talking. And sometimes it was just, all right, the first week's gone, we're talking. That reminded me of Sam was last year at UNC. As you remember, Kevin, heading into that last year at UNC,

Sam Hall was in the top five every single too early mock draft that you would see around the industry. And that last year, you saw the Philongo offense, when he didn't have the first read there, it was always fucking run. And so your concern had to be this guy going across the progression line. We just haven't seen it. That's my, you know, concern-ish with Jackson Dart,

but it's not, I'm not saying you can't do it. It's just a black box. So the Giants, obviously, they feel that they can get them there. What we can say for Jackson Dart is he runs it. whatever system he's in very, very well. That's the thing that sort of reminds you of Bowenix. I was one of those people that undersold Bonnex last process because while

he ran that system really well, there was some aspects of it that were not translatable of the NFL, so they became a black box of his evaluation. Turns out that Bonix could do some of those things that were, you know, existing inside of that black box. We're going to find out what Jackson's are. Bringing up Sam Hal,

by the way, you're a Vikings guy, you're a Minneapolis guy. You surprised that that's who Kevin decided to go, with is a backup to McCarthy? I'm not because the acquisition cost and then what you got back for, it was just such a good deal. What ended up happening on day three on Saturday, Quasi Adolph-a-Ment to the GM for the Vikings ended up turning the 142nd pick overall, which is in the fifth round. He ended up turning that into Sam Howell and then picks 201 and 202.

and in addition to that, you essentially also acquired $9 million in salary cap flexibility this year between what you will be paying Sam Howell and what everyone was projecting that you were going to pay out for the one year of your veteran backup quarterback, right, $11, $12 million, whatever that would have been. You saved that now. That is equivalent to signing a starter at another position. So I just thought that that whole thing was slick. The Vikings, you know, all this stuff with the veteran crew, you know, first it was Sam, then it was Aaron Rogers and all these jokes.

they're going to sign Joe Flack or Drew Lack or all these different things. This was the best course of action as far as the acquisition of that player for what it costs and then what it ends up saving you on both sides. Real quickly, just back to the Giants and I get accused of pumping up their roster minus the quarterback in recent years a bit too much. But defensively, if Carter's the real deal, if Darius Alexander can participate as a rookie in an early, early third round pick, they have. have a tremendously talented defense. Do you agree?

Totally agree. Yeah, they got some monsters there. And I'm really interested to see how they fit in. If they keep, you know, Tibido is on that roster in the ball. I'm curious to see the mix and imagine they do. Will we see any of Abdul Carter off ball, right, and get all three of the guys on the field at the same time? Abdul Carter, obviously prior to last season at Penn State was an off ball linebacker. So could you get some of that? Make a lot of that? and matching. I'll be very curious, but yeah, can we get some creative sort of alignments where you get all those guys on the field? You know, one quick thing, because you mentioned just sort of the one-trick pony on some of the edges. Did you view Donovan Azaraku as a one-trick pony at 245 pounds?

I didn't totally know because he does do cool stuff in the run game. It's not your traditional set-the-edge guy, but he's a guy that I think of as pulling the pin. out of grenades. He got into the backfield really quickly on some of those running concepts and just entirely blew the play up. So I didn't see him as the negative in the run game, maybe that some others did, but it's not, it's not exactly what Washington was looking for. So, you know, as far as that goes. So I understood that decision. All right. Last two. Give me your, you know, pick that you thought was the greatest value, you know, where the player was selected, that you're really excited about because you were, you know, building up before this draft started and somebody got to steal?

I would say if Will Johnson is healthy, that is the cornerback for Michigan, that is an amazing value at 47 for Arizona. We just don't know about the metacaws. And the concerning thing there, Shepter reported the ball was because of a knee injury. Will Johnson had had multiple other lower body injuries to other lower body parts, like in the past calendar year. So it's like that one in conjunction with that, I understand why the NFL got. repudacious about that, but this is a guy who was a lockdown boundary corner on the 2023 Michigan Wolverine team that won the title. You look at his QB rating on his targets was just absolutely minuscule. The ball production there was incredible. So if he is right,

that is going to be a really, really good pick. And then I have to say it, Shadir Sanders. I don't, the fifth round, there is no risk anymore. And so like it did seem like the NFL and Mass was sort of standing up and making a statement to the Sanders and to Dion and the Shadir. But at that point, you get into the fifth round. There is no risk anymore. So Shadir Sanders is immediately, you never see a situation where a fifth

round pick is clearly the most gifted quarterback on his NFL roster as a rookie. That's the case that we have here. And is he going to show up there defiant, in which case he's probably going to be out of the league pretty quickly? That's the messaging that the NFL seemed intent on delivering over the weekend, or

is he going to show up humbled by this and get to work? Because if he does, I think you're going to see a fifth round rookie quarterback starting in the NFL this fall. You know, for me, Thorne, we talked about this on the show yesterday. It's really simple. It was teams didn't see him as a first round quarterback. And once that became a reality, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze to select him as a low-end starter or a backup with the three-ring circus that would accompany it.

And I just think that ultimately there were probably. probably teams that understood that the value on this player was much higher than the fifth round. But are you going to bring the circus to town for a low-end starter or a backup in terms of their evaluation? For sure. Yeah. And I would agree, you know, as far as the equation, that that seemed to be what was happening when he wasn't like the top half of the first round pick, yeah, you know, you get later on there, then you're going to bring him in in day two, and it's like, this guy, he's a developmental guy, he has to get in here and work.

And I can see why some of the teams that would have had, you know, based on things we heard about the interview, might have had a tough time projecting that. But you could not have asked for a better situation for him. He absolutely fits that, that's Daphansky office. I agree. And they're absolutely nothing in that. Yeah, I mean, it's a really, really good fed. The short and intermediate timing concepts there, where they ask you to get the ball out

on time, the concept of the play, and then put it on the hand. That's the thing Shadir is best at. So, again, if he just shows up ready to work, I think they got something cook in there. Well, it's funny because in the open of the show, I actually mentioned that Stafansky, you know, KOC, you know, McVeigh, there are a couple of guys, but especially if they can run the football and they can go play action and they can run bootleg and they can just kind of make it easier and not put all of it on him, he'll have a chance, and that was a good spot to sort of end up in. All right, last one.

Biggest reach of the draft was who? I would say Tyler Williams in the first round from Detroit. We were in an environment where the offensive linemen were being pulled up in the first round and the interior defense alignment were being pulled up in the first round. And Detroit, Detroit, a team that we were talking about edges quite a bit earlier in the segment. Detroit was a team that badly needed an edge. you have Aidan Hutchinson coming out from an injury. You're going to have to rely on Marcus Davenport,

who gets injured every year and has never been anything in the NFL. And there was edges. I thought that were worthy of that selection. And they might not have been as we have to get this sort of an edge as Washington was. I was stunned that in the position that they were in, you end up pulling an interior defensive lineman, in my opinion, a round up the board. Tileik Williams, there's stuff about his game I like for sure.

He's a really, really good run. defender. But for me, to take an interior defense alignment in the first round like that, you have to be able to project something of him as a pass rusher. And I just don't know what you're getting there with Tiley Williams. And as far as an edge, or I'm sorry, a run stuffing interior defense alignment, that's a cheap thing to acquire in the NFL. So I wasn't sure. But Brad Holmes, of course, has gone, you know, off the grid before and has been proven right. So I'm going to give him another opportunity to make me look like a fool. I thought that was the biggest reach of the I'm sorry, one last question. Who's the top pick next year in the draft? Is it Archie Manning?

If he declares, that's going to be fascinating. You know, obviously the two other mannings prior to him, the two most recent that we've seen stayed all four years, and that was prior to the NIL era. And also with Arch, we haven't, the amount of snaps he took in the first two years, not very many, right? Because Quinn Ewers was there. So that's a tough one. Will he be in the draft or not? think, you know, you look at other guys if he doesn't declare Drew Alar probably would be way up there, you know, as far as quarterbacks. We have a better offensive tackle class next year. I think it's going to be a better class overall. So, yeah, but we are on Manning watch. I mean, for the next calendar year, that's going to be all the queen. Manning is going to have to

field that question a lot about if he is going to consider declaring for the draft after the season. You're the best. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for the time. Great work on the draft. know, take a couple of weeks off. What do you do when it's over? Sleep. We'll get some sleep and get back at it soon. Thanks, Thor. Always good talking to you, Kevin. Thor Neistram, everybody. Love having Thor on the show. He's an excellent guest. Up next, Joe Maloney, who spearheaded the stadium effort for the football team for a few years.

He'll give us his thoughts on Monday's announcement and the last hurdle that needs to be cleared, the DC City Council. We'll get to that after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, how about that decision you have to make sometimes? When you're out with friends at night and that decision typically comes down to this, am I going to have a really fun night

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return to D.C. and the RFK site. Joe Maloney was the VP of Public Affairs for the team, and he was the point person for the team on all of these stadium conversations over the years with Virginia, with Maryland, and with D.C. Now, Joe is not with the team anymore. He's now the senior VP of Communications with the American Gaming Association, but a lot of the conversation we're having today is because of Joe. And I want to start with this. And it's kind of cutting to the chase because there's been a lot of conversation post Monday about certain city council members not being thrilled with the deal or not knowing enough about the deal.

I'll ask you, was it premature on Monday to be as celebratory as the mayor and Josh Harrison, and Roger Goodell were about a return to D.C.? There's several more very important steps to take place, but I do think the staging of that event was very intentional. And when you're in the types of work that involves creating a majority for the purposes of approving a specific type of package, it's important to generate enthusiasm, energy, demonstrate momentum, and get your story out there.

So the event was intentional. It was done for those reasons. I would describe the event as an overall success, but history is littered with a lot of events such as these that have gone sideways, that become unfortunate artifacts in deals gone wrong. And we have seen it in other NFL cities that have had various episodic examples of these things. going sideways. It begins with Governor Rowland in Connecticut holding up a jersey and handing it to Robert Kraft in the late 90s to the various machinations in the Chicago Bears search where they've done multiple events such as this one. And it hasn't worked out. But it was done, Kevin, with a high level of confidence that this deal is going to get done on the mayor's preferred timeline. So let's talk about the deal that was described on Monday. How would you describe it, Joe? Would you describe it as a deal that is really good for the city more so than the team, a deal that's really good for the team more so than the city,

or is it a deal that's really good for both parties? For someone that isn't going to sit there and read through the entire term sheet, how would you describe it? Largest and most historic private capital investment in the District of Columbia and the generation, a catalytic economic development engine for not only the 180-acre parcel in the surrounding community, but for the region. And then lastly, continuing to keep this region competitive as it relates to major, not just sporting events, but major global and cultural events.

That this is an important deal for the city and for the club and for our sports. economy, and it will yield significant economic dividends for the region. Okay, but there seems to be certainly, you know, a lot of posturing maybe right now, but do you have a sense that the deal is one-sided either way, or is it just, you know, a fair deal through and through? It continues a trend-lined, Kevin, that I think is really important in the overall discussion around investments, both private and public, in mixed-use sports entertainment districts. And that trend line continues to grow on the part of public investment. You go back to the Raider Stadium, Allegiance Stadium in Las Vegas, $750 million in public investment.

You then go up to Buffalo, the state and county combined $850 million in public investments for that structure. And we go to Tennessee, Nashville for the Titans. That structure is close to about $1 billion in public investments. And now we're here at the district, whereby, based on press accounts, we're seeing up to $1.1 billion in public investment. That's happening, Kevin, because there's near universal agreement, and I understand there are academic critics on this, but there's near universal agreement that these destinations create a significant amount of economic activity that is absolutely not displacing other economic activity. It's adding economic activity. So I do think everybody wins.

I truly do believe that. I think this is a good deal for the club. It's going to allow the club to continue to be competitive, as other teams have done in developing mixed-use, entertainment, sports entertainment districts, a way in which they can capture revenue. And it also allows the city to capture tax revenue to continue to invest in communities that create multimodal,

multi-use experiences for not just residents, creating housing and the like, but for additional international investment, inbound visitation, and other use purposes. You said that Monday's announcement press event was very intentional, and I'm assuming, you know, what you meant was they intended to generate a ton of excitement, get fans super excited, get D.C. residents super excited so that the D.C. Council members who are lukewarm or even against it, think about doing something that might be politically advantageous for them. What I'm wondering is the D.C. Council is going to ask the mayor to go back and

haggle the deal, to get a better deal so that they can say, hey, look, what we did. We got involved and we got, you know, the city an even better deal than the mayor had negotiated. Where are those areas of the current, you know, term sheet, the current structure of the deal where you think the city council is going to ask the mayor to go back and, you know, haggle for the lack of a better description. Sure. And let me just put this in your love language, Kevin. I think the over under on yes votes with the ultimate deal is somewhere around 10 right now.

Okay. Really? And I do. I do. I think this passes. And we can get into some of the specifics, but I would set it at 10 right now. Ten votes approving this investment on the part of the city and approving this overall package. Will this package change? Yes, absolutely. And we have our own examples here in D.C. with previous stadium structures that have changed dramatically when an agreement between the mayor, the executive, and the team moved. to the legislative body of the city council. So we can absolutely expect things to change. And those council members that have either voiced curiosity and an eagerness to roll up the

sleeves and work on this, council members such as Zachary Parker, council member at large Christine Henderson, and just about an hour ago, council member Robert White, they're ready to lean in. They're trying to stay in the conversation, Kevin. You have Phil Mendelsohn is giving himself a lot of room to approve this. I know he has stated he's opposed to a stadium with public subsidy, but he's also leaving himself room as well. And I think there's basically two sort of deal points here, and there's two areas of Haggle to use your term. One, it could just be defraying the public investment and asking the team to contribute more in private investment.

Okay. And then the second piece of this, okay, the other opportunity is to create opportunity for something that you believe to be important and included in the overall deal. That could be something as small as dedicated arts funding for magnet schools that are close by to certain types of curb cuts and pedestrian safety measures that need to be incorporated to a myriad of other things, to something perhaps. much, much bigger, like the co-location of a job training center for district residents or for returning citizens to be able to be employed by the various businesses that are created. But ultimately what it comes down to, I think, is this tension here, Kevin, between what is an appropriate amount of public subsidy and what do the taxpayers get in return that is not just necessarily economic activity or tax revenues, the things that the people running the

numbers are spitting back out. But the things that you can see and that you can feel. So as I say, I went to graduate school and I learned two things after spending a lot of money to get a graduate degree. And one is that elected officials overwhelmingly first care about their own re-election. Okay. And then the second thing I learned is that elected officials, particularly those that haven't made up their mind, they don't necessarily like being confronted with what I call an aura of inevitability. And so there was a cohort of council members that were probably confronted with that feeling after Monday.

I'm not ready to support this deal, so I'm not going to show up on Monday at the press club. Okay. But what they're doing right now, Kevin, is they're giving themselves leverage to be in the room, to be a part of the ultimate negotiation, and they need to be judicious with that leverage, right? Because we all, the club only needs, the club and the mayor only needs seven. both. I think they'll get more than that for sure. But I think those individuals that are

expressing the right type of curiosity, being cerebral about the process, wanting to learn more, are going to put in the work, I think are ultimately going to come along because I think the mayor and the club are going to want this to be a 10, 11, 12 vote outcome, not a 7-vote outcome. That second piece of like, you know, renegotiation haggling, you know, number one being just asking the team to contribute more. And part two being, you know, the co-location of some business or charter school, you know, whatever. You went through a list of things.

Would that include potentially the team relocating its primary, you know, business operations and maybe it's football operations to the actual, you know, new site? It certainly might. I've heard some council members voice a concern that. that the business operations would remain in College Park. That's a business operation that is about 100 to 125 employees on any given day. Those are people that walk out of that office and generate commerce in that area of activity. It also is a little point of pride for a specific neighborhood community as well.

I think that the club has derived an enormous amount of value out of its partnership in College Park and some of the adjacencies that are affords with the University of Maryland. I clearly could understand why council members and why district government would want those employees going to work every day in the district of Columbia. It increases the tax base, of course. I do not think that the club would necessarily be interested, nor the city for that matter, to create a practice facility for the football operation. I think there's just so much synergy and so much efficiency.

particularly with land use out in Virginia, the proximity to Dulles Airport to get people in and out. I think it's perhaps a better environment for players to more conveniently live in a suburban community and have the ability to sort of move a family and what have you. And so I would be surprised if the football operations moved. But it also would not shock me, though, if the front office operations, your ticketing, your legal, your marketing saw an opportunity to come into the district and that ended up being. one of the deal components. I'm not saying that was remotely discussed when I was with the club, but it certainly is potentially a leverage point for a council member to use in a forthcoming

negotiation. All right. You set the over under at 10. When does the vote take place and would you bet over or under? Look, your under is going to still be a winner, meaning it's going to get approved in your opinion. But when does this happen? And how many councilmen? How many councilmen? members end up voting yes? I believe there to be, I think, I'm optimistic. I would bet the over. I think it's somewhere around 11 to 12 votes, Kevin. I do think that this is such a catalytic, massive private investment.

And I think the council members that are going about this the right way, that are thinking about this the right way, are going to have every opportunity to communicate with the club. And I think the mayor's team as well, this does this should not. be a sort of poisoned and sort of toxic exercise. I think if this is going to have the type of, I think, generational impact, you're really going to want to sort of have as many folks as supporting as possible. And I think and truly believe Josh and the team and the mayor are invested in that outcome. And so I think they're going to do what it takes to get people on board. So I would absolutely be, I would absolutely be getting me over. If it is somewhere

in that 7, 8, 9 sort of range, it just becomes a little bit too unpredictable, and I think the timeline might slide simply because you're going to potentially be in some protracted negotiation to sort of get this over the finish line if you're down to counting numbers that closely, which might just affect that timeline that was stated, I think, in some press materials that were handed out of July 2025. And I've heard reported that there's some clause about July 15 being a date that the team could walk away from the agreement. But again, I just can't imagine an environment where that wouldn't be extended to accommodate some additional negotiations with a few recalcitrant council members. So I want to know, and I think you know the answer to this, which of the two,

D.C. or Maryland, will produce the better return on investment for the team? Because we've seen this $2.7 billion team investment number many times since Monday. You know the economics of what was going to happen in Maryland, in Landover, and what now has happened in D.C. Which was the better deal for the team? We know they want to be in D.C., but is it actually the deal that will produce a bigger return for them long term? It's probably not fair. answer that that quickly. And I would be remiss if I didn't acknowledge that this is a structure that I think would have been highly attractive in the region so long as it was located inside the Beltway. That I think a lot of the sort of international and the inbound visitation and the revenue

opportunities could be realized with a structure anywhere inside the Beltway and its proximity to R3 airport. Okay, let me just state that. However, I think the multimodal attractiveness, got a metro center here, you're 13 blocks from the U.S. Capitol, the sort of, I mean, once in a lifetime type of structure and rendering that they put forward with views of the United States Capitol. I think the revenue opportunity is absolutely higher. I think the revenue per square foot is absolutely higher. It relates to just foot traffic, additional sponsorship opportunities. I think the sponsorship component, the stadium naming rights component is significantly higher in a DC structure at RFK versus a structure in Maryland at Landover. And I just, when I talk to people about this project, I just say to them, just think a Monday night football. And the drone shot and the blimp shot in the United States Capitol and the RFK in the same frame. And your company's name is on the top of that translucent roof.

It's just you cannot put a price tag on that. And so I just think it's a remarkable revenue opportunity. And yes, I think the return on equity, the return on investment would be either realized quicker, Kevin, or potentially much higher with dislocation versus others. But the cost going in also much higher in D.C. than it would have been in Maryland. The team investment is higher in D.C. than in Maryland, correct. Yeah, I think Maryland would have other levers and other sort of tether opportunities when it came to state-generated revenue to create less costs for the club. Yes, absolutely. And Maryland has a terrific track record in that.

I mean, Maryland Stadium Authority is one of the most highly respected financial facilities when it comes to structures such as stadiums in schools. And simply because there's multiple tethers, there's a mature Maryland lottery, there's gaming revenues, there's all-time. types of sophisticated, you know, financial tethering that can be done in a state such as Maryland. But, you know, D.C.'s also had a tremendous amount of sex, too. The ballpark fee is second to none. Nat Park is an investment that's been paid for. It's realized an enormous economic activity. It's a true success story in this country. So I'm confident the club and the city will be able to replicate that success with this parcel. The league will contribute to this endeavor as well, correct? And how much?

It's $300 million, I believe, at last sort of public disclosure of that stadium funding program. But, of course, that money would ultimately end up being repaid in some form. And I can't recall the sort of revenue if it's ticket sales or if it's a portion of ticket sales. but ultimately that that money then does get ultimately repaid to the league and its owners. When you were talking about this, you know, and pitching it and, you know, having, you know, many, many a meeting about this, how much of the conversation was about the structure itself and the possibilities of, you know, beyond eight or nine home dates a year? Oh, I think it's always been envisioned as, first of all, a structure with a room.

and second of all, a structure that could compete for the types of global events that the region has not been able or not necessarily been successful in landing, but also, you know, again, like year-round components, swing spaces for things like smaller conventions and larger corporate meetings, if you will, down to, you know, your concerts and your other larger programmed events. And so that has been a massive, massive, I think, component of both the vision for this structure under Dan and then the vision of the structure under Josh as well. By the way, just to be clear, not a retractable roof, right? Because that's more expensive. It's more expensive and it's just generally not used as frequently as you might think.

You get one quarterback that prefers it shut and always stays shut. Right. Yeah. So it's just, you know, it's just not. It's just not worth it. All right. The Super Bowl will be played at the new stadium in what year? I would say if it's not by 2032, then we should be stomping our feet.

I think it'll be very early in the stadium's opening years. I think I've asked you this before, but if I haven't, just the draft and the process to get the draft to D.C., I think is a more difficult one because of permitting. What do you know about that? Because Tommy seems to believe that the league with a new stadium downtown will look to before it opens at some point, hold a draft here as well. So in my post-employment, Mike, Kevin, obviously my proudest moment was the federal bill passing. And just, again, having been part of something where I spent a lot of time on.

The next proudest moment, Kevin, will be when the NFL declares that the draft is coming to the city. It's been a very long process. The club's committed to it. I know that the league, the city is committed to it. I know the league would love for it to happen. We'll find out. We'll find out. I think we were close under the Snyder ownership era, and then for a lot of reasons it didn't happen.

But, boy, that will be absolutely amazing. And the league, as you've seen with the production of the NFL draft over the last two to three cities, the league will spare no expense and will do an amazing job showcasing our city and our region. It's just going to be fantastic. I'm confident it will happen. So hopefully we're in the mix here for, you know, I think 27, 28, 29. Didn't you tell me, though, or somebody tell me that because it's federal land, because there's only one place to hold it, and that's down town on the mall, that the permitting process is just years in advance for an event this size, and that that was one of the bottlenecks in getting it done? It is, it can be overcome, but you're talking about a multi-jurisdictional area of our city.

I think it's something hilarious, Kevin. I honestly think for some intersections and then around the U.S. Capitol and the National Mall, you have a dozen different jurisdictional partners that you have to work with, whether it's U.S. Capitol Police, Park Police, D.C. police. I mean, it's astonishing amount of just a law enforcement piece of it. It's extremely, extremely complicated. So it's just not a permitting process that is I go to the National Park Service. They stamp me approval for my protest.

and a bunch of people show up in protest. Like, you know, that's a standard NPS permit situation, and that's not this, simply because it will require an enormous amount of pedestrian and vehicular traffic, law enforcement exercises. So, yes, it's part of the process, but to do certain things on certain types of properties, there's a commercial restriction as well, right? So you can't necessarily commercialize the national law. So if you're holding a function on the national law,

mall, you can't sell stadium beers and you can't have signs bigger than a certain amount of space for any types of specific brands, right? So there's a lot of things to jump through. And again, in a franchise such as the NFL draft, the league has a certain way of doing things and partners to the NFL draft have certain expectations on brand promotion as well in brand activation. And so the league, the club, the city, the federal government, it's very, very complicated. So it will be an interesting ingredient mix when it finally happens. And I'm truly hopeful. I'm very confident it will happen.

So I say when, not if, when it does, it will be amazing. I'm sure you remember, I believe it was the fall of 03 when the NFL last activated on the national law. and it was a Thursday night game Misskins versus Jets. I remember the Luskins won on the last second field. Yeah, by John Hall. There was, I believe, a Britney Spears concert? Oh, was it Britney Spears?

I remember it being a big production. This was before they used the defending Super Bowl champions in the Thursday night game because obviously Washington was not a defending Super Bowl champion. But I do remember the game, and I remember there was a big NFL kind of buildup in D.C. to the game, yes. Yeah. And so

I will say there's some residual scar tissue from that exercise with NPS because there was rules were broken. There was consumption, significant consumption of certain types

of products. Yeah. There was promotion, significant promotion of certain types of products. And so there was definitely an agreement that, hey, maybe NPS in the NFL will take a little bit of a break for a little while. And again, you know, the mall is a very sensitive area, as you know. It's literally on a swamp.

It's thinking there's billions in deferred maintenance for that. And so, look, there's a commitment to continue to revitalize the National Mall. And I do truly believe that all of the jurisdictional partners, however, believe that an NFL draft can put our nation's capital. and can put the mall itself, like really back on the mind in front of Americans. I mean, 14 million people watch night one of the draft. That's crazy. I know.

14 million people. More than every NHL playoff broadcast combined in the first round. It would be an absolute zoo if it were here. It would be fun, though, and it would be great for the city. Thanks. Not just for coming on the show today. I always appreciate that. but thank you for everything you did to make this happen.

For those that are listening, Joe was a significant part, a significant reason why this team appears to be headed back to D.C. He was the point person for the team for several years. He was significantly involved in getting that federal land back to the control of the city, which if that doesn't happen, we never have what we have right now. I'm sure Monday was a day for you to celebrate as well, So congratulations. Thanks. I'm sure we'll be talking soon. Appreciate it as always. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate it.

All right. That's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy.