The Kevin Sheehan Show - SVP "Back In" On The Redskins

Episode Date: January 2, 2020

Kevin opened the show with more on Ron Rivera and thoughts on the Jack Del Rio addition. ESPN's Scott Van Pelt joined the show for 45 minutes and declared he's "back in" on the Redskins. He and Kevin talked a ton of Redskins, College Football, NFL Playoffs, and Terps' Basketball. Kevin finished up with a closing thought on why the fit between Ron Rivera and the Redskins might be the right one. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. I'm here. Aaron's back. Aaron was on a cruise to the Bahamas.

Did you have a good time? I did. Got to relax a lot. Got to enjoy some nice weather, some good drinks. And experience an NFL Sunday in a way I haven't done in a really long time. On a ship. Well, not just on a ship,

but on a ship where I could watch one game, the one game they presented in each time. Just one game? You know, they present one game. in each time slot. Yeah. I didn't have Twitter.

So it was like, you know, back in high school or something. No, because we didn't have Internet or anything. So, yeah, it was just kind of, it was like the early 2000s watching football. That's funny that, because I have not been on a cruise for many years. The last cruise we did was an Alaskan cruise. And it was very, very pretty and nice. But it was 43 degrees and raining sideways every single day. that we were on this cruise from Vancouver to all portions of Alaska.

And I can't remember how disconnected I was. You know, it's funny because, you know, a lot of people when they travel and they take vacation, they completely check out. It's a way to completely unwind from their job. And I've always, you know, we're lucky. And I appreciate this and have always appreciated this, that I get to do something that I love doing.

I don't hate going to work. I actually really look forward to going to work. I'm always thinking about going to work. So when I take vacation, I never really check out. I check out from the day to day of preparing for a show, which a lot of you think, you just show up for three hours into a show. There's actually a lot of thinking about this show on a daily basis.

Those of us that do this, you're always thinking about the next show. You're never checked out. Whether you're watching games or there's news that breaks or you're coming up with ideas for the next show. you're always thinking about and planning for the next show. When this show is over, I always sketch out what tomorrow's show is going to be. But it changes so much and you have so many different ideas.

And then when you have some really good ideas, then you spend time sort of developing those ideas on the best way to do it on a show. Anyway, I digress because what I was saying is when I go on vacation, I'm still watching sports. I'm still on Twitter following what's going on in the world of sports because it's what I love doing. It's been a hobby in addition to it being a profession. So I can't remember the last time that I was completely disconnected.

There are days where I take off where I'm disconnected from Twitter and social media, definitely. I don't have a lot of patience for it in general. Most of you probably know that. I'm not sitting there on Twitter all day, tweeting all day and responding to tweets all day. It's not what I enjoy doing. But I've checked out from that space completely before Aaron, but never from, hey, it's an NFL Sunday. I'm on vacation. I'm still watching games.

Right. Although I can't remember the last time. Gino, contractually, really, I've never been able to take significant time off during what we call our high season, which is football season. You know, Labor Day through the Super Bowl. Most of us aren't really able to take significant time off. it is the bigger and more important ratings period of the year for everybody. But anyway, today's one of those days that's a little bit weird because we're going to do a podcast here

this morning, have it out to you by, I guess, noon today, you know, somewhere around 12 noon. And then Ron Rivera is going to be introduced as the new head coach at 2 p.m. today. So we'll do a lot of follow-up on that press conference tomorrow. So there's still a lot to talk about prior to that press conference, but a lot of the things that we talk about and even speculate about may be answered later on this afternoon, which happens all the time. But I'm just saying today, you've got a planned press conference. The Redskins officially announced Ron Rivera as the head coach yesterday via a press release from the organization that said the following. They sent it out at 7.01 a.m. yesterday. The Washington Redskins today announced Ron Rivera.

is the team's new head coach. Head coach, that's it. No additional title. I had suggested that I thought, I said that I thought that there would be an additional title, you know, vice president, football ops, executive vice president and head coach, whatever. But he didn't. He just had the title of head coach. There were two quotes in the press release, one from Dan Snyder and one from Ron Rivera. The quote from Dan Snyder read, quote, after several meetings, with Coach Rivera. It was clear he's the right person to bring winning football back to Washington, D.C. He is widely respected around the league as a man of great integrity and is proven to be one of the finest coaches in the country, closed quote. That's everything we talked about the other day,

is Ron Rivera. He is a good coach. He's also a highly respected man, a guy who is a big-time leader, and a man of integrity, great integrity, as Snyder said. You know, it's nice to start thinking about this organization with quality people in it. It's been a while. You know, it's been a while. Now, Ron Rivera, his quote, and we'll have many more to talk about tomorrow from the press conference, but his quote in the press release, quote, While I loved the storied history of the franchise,

I am focused on the future and excited for the opportunity to win foot, football games with this talented young team. After meeting Dan Snyder, it was clear we were aligned in our passion for the game and he supports my vision to turn the team around. I look forward to surrounding myself with great people and getting to work, closed quote. Just a couple of things on this quote. First of all, I am glad that he did not drone on and on about the storied history of the franchise. He says, while I love the storied history of the franchise, I'm focused on the future. We have spent way too much time in these press conferences over the years, coaches, you know, McLuhan, whatever, all of that stuff with the three Lombardi trophies out there

and waxing nostalgic. It's too much. It's over. You know, I don't, after the last two decades, enough on the three Lombardi trophies. They're just too far long ago to think that they'll have any impact on anything in the present future. We've heard too much nostalgia in recent introductory press conferences for coaches and others. And I'm hopeful that we won't get a lot of that today in the press conference. At this point, I just think the Redskins are actually starting to realize. Maybe Dan is starting to realize that the mere mention of the past makes the recent past and present look so much worse.

Not to mention the fact if you're at all superstitious, it's a jinx to keep talking about the past. Nobody cares about it anymore. I remember it. I remember all those games. Every once in a while I'll get caught up on YouTube at, you know, midnight or 1 a.m. in the morning watching a Redskins Cowboys game from 1983 and being excited like it was live. But it just doesn't matter. And there's been too much of that resting. And, you know, Ben Standing was on radio with me this morning. And he said something and I don't think I thought about it this way. But it's like, you know, every time, you know, he's brought those things out, the trophies and talked about the great history of the Redskins and the, you know, the great passion of the Redskins fan base, you know, he's basically jumping on something that was done, you know, prior to him getting there. And it's too much, you know, of, hey, look at what we have when it wasn't his. It was his maybe as a fan, but it certainly wasn't his as an owner. Anyway, I hope that there's not a big emphasis today, and based on the press release, I'm expecting that there won't be on the past. I also just as a quick aside, and I didn't pick up on this earlier this morning or yesterday, but it just occurred to me as I was just reading it now.

You know, in this quote from Ron Rivera after meeting Dan Snyder, I'm sure many times if I went back and found press releases in the past, it was after meeting Mr. Snyder. Dan Snyder should be Dan Snyder to Ron Rivera. Should not be Mr. Snyder. That's just my view. Ron Rivera is he older? He's older than Dan Snyder. And I think that that ship has sailed on that too. Too many stories about, you know, people not being able to look the owner in the eye. And, you know, if you're walking around, don't still don't look at them and everybody's got to address him as Mr. Mr. Too much of that going around with too little winning to back it up. Anyway, just a quick thought. I'm looking forward to seeing him today.

I'm a Ron Rivera fan. I'm a fan that Bruce was let go. And I tweeted out the other day, yesterday in fact. I tweeted out yesterday morning. New year, new decade, new outlook, question mark. It is for me. I'm in a different place right now. I am.

I'm not bought in. Trust me, I'm not diving in head first, but I'm dipping my toes a little bit into this because the Bruce Allen, Jay Gruden, Bill Callahan, the last few years have been the darkest of the Snyder era. They were. And maybe the worst is yet to come. I'm not going to suggest that the worst couldn't be ahead because you're totally justified in thinking that. And I'm not discounting it. But if you think that already, it's not an irrational. thought. It's in play. But for now, to me anyway, there's at least the perception that the team's moving to a different place. No matter how long or short it lasts, they're moving to a different place. And so therefore, because it's been so dark recently, I'm in a different place, at least for now. Bruce has gone. You know, the arrogance, the pretension, you know, the delusion, the incompetence, it's gone. A lot of it's gone with him. I'm not saying it's all gone. Be careful what you declare to be definitive because I know still some of those people in that building

and they will get all chesty today about hiring Ron Rivera and Jack Del Rio. And they'll already start acting like they've won something. Let's see how this progresses. If you start hearing big proclamations in the off season, you know, and in training, can't then Ron Rivera's not making the impression and changing the culture the way I hope that it gets changed. But, you know, he, the arrogance with Bruce Allen, you know, the, the real condescension that sort of came with his style, at least for me right now, appears to be gone and I'm hopeful because of that. They've also hired a coach that I've always liked. I know he's not Bill Walsher, Joe Gibbs, or Don Shula, or Vince Lombardi.

Those guys aren't walking through the door. They're not coming through the door, all right? Well, two of them can't come through the door. But no one like that is coming through the door to this franchise right now. Well, I mean, you know, the fact that they got Ron Rivera is pretty impressive because he's better than I thought they would have been able to attract. Part of that is because Bruce has gone. But Ron Rivera has been a good football coach, a good man, big time leader, big time leader.

He has been. You can look at his record and say in nine seasons in Carolina, he lost, had a losing record in six of them. But that really doesn't tell the whole story. He came in to Carolina, two and 14 franchise in 2010, and he turned it around. He turned the culture around. He turned the style around. And he didn't have nearly the decision-making authority there that he will have, I presume he will have here. But he went to the playoffs four times in nine years.

One of those was with a losing record in 2014. He won a season finale game on a Sunday night final against Atlanta, 34 to 3. They went into Atlanta, crushed the Falcons to win the division with a 7, 8, and 1 record. So one of the years that they did not play well and had a losing record, they did go to the postseason, and they won a playoff game. They did. They won a playoff game. That year they won the division as a 7, 8, and 1 winner.

They beat the Arizona Cardinals, 27 to 16, and then went on the road and lost at Seattle in the divisional round. Part of the reason he's had a couple of losing seasons in a row, though, to be fair, is they were six and two last year, and then Cam Newton, you know, played but was not healthy the remaining part of last year. And they went from six and two to seven and nine. This year didn't even have Cam Newton, really. And when he got fired, they were five and seven. So two of the six losing seasons in nine years were without a healthy starting quarterback, which almost any coach is going to struggle with. But I like the fact that he's been through this before, that he's been through a situation

that had a culture problem, that had a losing problem, that had a lot of issues, and he turned it around. I like Ron Rivera. I'm bullish on Ron Rivera. His staff is starting to come together. Jack Del Rio is in. that was announced. That is another adult and proven defensive coordinator set to join Rivera here. Rivera is respected. He's going to attract a competent, if not stellar staff. He will. So Bruce Allen gone, Ron Rivera, and a competent, if not outstanding staff? Okay, I mean, I'm in a

different space because of those things. Also, second pick in the draft. They didn't blow that down the stretch, you know, and they could add a great player to the roster, maybe a great defensive player in Chase Young. I'm still all in on Chase Young at number two if he's there. But at the very least, they're going to have a chance to leverage that into more picks and more players. Here's what you know for sure about what's happening in the Redskins organization. No more Bruce, new coaching staff. And with the new coaching staff, you're going to get a coach, it's going to come in here with some power. Now, it may be fool's gold power, it may be fake power like it was with Shanahan, and the owner ultimately will

screw it up. But for the time being, you're going to have somebody in the building that has great respect around the league, who's hard-nosed, who's a leader, who knows how to coach, and find players that fit into his system, at the very least, they're going to be better defensively. That's a minimum. They've been so, I've been not very hard to exceed what they've been here in recent years defensively. But I'm excited about them defensively under this new coaching staff. Now, in terms of what is the upside with Ron Rivera? This is where I'm not jumping head first and saying, just wait. They're going to win divisions.

They're going to have a chance to go deep into the playoffs with Ron Rivera. No, no, no, I'm not there yet. I'm just in a different place knowing that, hey, the last week we got rid of Bruce. and we got a good coach, and we're probably going to get a good coaching staff along with the good coach. But achieving something great, like sustained winning, which this organization has never been able to produce under Dan Snyder's ownership. It depends on two things more than anything else. Number one, Dan Snyder, will he own the team differently moving forward? Most of you say no. I would lean no, because we've got nothing, nothing in his history.

here is an odor that says he's going to change and that he's going to stay out of it completely. I do believe he was less involved over the last decade, but he was involved enough. He was involved enough to mess up the RG3 situation. He was involved enough to somehow talk Mike Shanahan in his first three months of being the head coach into trading for Donovan McNabb. His relationships with players really undermined the coaching staff's ability to coach players. We've seen that over and over again. We've seen a front office and coaching staff be disconnected during the Jay Gruden era.

He's got to own the team differently. That's a wild card. Maybe not even a wild card. Maybe it's an absolute given that he won't change. But let's just assume right now if they're going to achieve sustained winning, they got rid of Bruce, they got a coaching staff. Now it depends on two things. The owner and then the quarterback.

They've got to get the quarterback right. Nobody wins without a good quarterback. Nobody has sustained winning without great quarterback play. So is Dwayne Haskins the right guy? What if he isn't the right guy? Will Ron Rivera be able to say, sorry, Dan, you know what? He's a nice young man. We're going to go sign Philip Rivers.

Philip Rivers is available. We are going to sign Philip Rivers. Or we're going to sign Cam Newton. We're going to sign Ryan Fitzpatrick. I've spent two months with him. We're now in free agency. we're going in a different direction. Will he be able to do that if that's what he believes is right for the organization?

So the wild cards here. Snyder, the quarterback position. I believe that he probably told Snyder, I've watched enough of Haskins. I believe in Haskins on tape. I've got to get to know him. I can't tell you that I'm going to be committed to him forever. I hope he didn't say that.

But I like what I've seen on tape. I like what I've seen on tape. I like what I've seen live. I think Dwayne Haskins made a lot of progress. I'm excited about him in 2020. But I am more, more interested to see if Ron Rivera wanted to move on from Haskins at some point, would he be able to do so? We may find out some of those questions starting today. And speaking of some of those questions, I think at that press conference today, you need to hear what Ron Rivera's true clout is going to be.

beyond head coach? Is he going to have final say over the roster? Is he going, is the GM going to report to him? What's the structure? What's the front office structure going to be like? How much did he ask for and get to come here? You'd have to think that Ron Rivera coming here, that it was about multiple things, kind of like the roster, kind of like the opportunity to take a team rock bottom and turn it around like he did with Carolina. But everybody warned him about Dan Snyder. Everybody warned him about Bruce Allen. Bruce Allen's gone. Joe Gibbs probably said, you can work with Dan.

Dan wants to win. You can work with him. But maybe Joe said, you got to make sure that you get this level of control. You've got to have final say over this. You can't have him in the locker room. You can't have him developing relationships with players that supersede your relationship with a player, that put you in a difficult spot. Certainly Mike Shanahan would be able to tell Ron Rivera.

of that. You want to find out what kind of clout Ron Rivera has. You want to find out what he thinks of Dwayne Haskins. I'd like to know that today. You'd like to find out what he thinks of the second pick in the draft about other talent on the team. You'd like to know what he thinks about Trent Williams and the opportunity that Trent Williams may have to come back and play. What he thinks about Josh Norman? I will tell you right now, I don't think Josh Norman's coming back. There's a 12 to $13 million cap savings opportunity by releasing Josh Norman. They're going to need that cap space. That is a part of the equation here for Ron Rivera that probably looked good other than the Alex Smith deal, but the opportunity to release a guy like Josh Norman or trade a guy like Trent Williams or trade a guy like Ryan Carrigan or cut a guy like Jordan Reed and end up with significant salary cap savings.

Remember this about Josh Norman. They rescinded the franchise tag on him. Now, that may have been a GM decision back in 2016. You know, that was one of the big moves that Bruce Allen made during his tenure here. That and Landon Collins, really, I mean, Deshawn Jackson, Josh Norman, Landon Collins. The biggest, you know, acquisitions of the Bruce Allen era in terms of big names, big dollars. Alex Smith trade obviously would fit into that conversation as well. But a hell of a lot fewer than what had happened the 10 years prior to Bruce Allen.

But, you know, they rescinded the Norman franchise tag. They couldn't get a long-term deal with him, done with him, and they moved on from him. And so I wonder whether or not, you know, whether or not Norman is a guy that Rivera even once, especially at this point in his career, where I think his abilities perhaps, you know, the capabilities that he has perhaps are less than what he had when he was a Panther. Last thing real quickly, before we get to a couple of other things. defensively there's been a bunch of reports and actually Jack Del Rio told Ben Standig we're going to be a base 4-3 defense which is great to hear because they really have

players that are more they're better suited to a one-gap responsibility scheme up front rather than two gaps okay two gaps is you're essentially trying to eat up blockers two blockers to make to allow your linebackers to make plays Duran Payne, John Allen, Matt Ionitis, Montez Sweat, are one gap for three players. They just are. That's what they're best suited to doing. That doesn't mean much because you're not in your base defense the majority of the time anyway. But for all of you that have really sweated this, that have really felt like this has been a major, major problem and misstep by the organization along the way, I felt the same way at various times. You know, Ryan Kerrigan's a defensive end just so you know he's not an outside lineback.

in a 4-3 defense. He's not a strong side or a weak side outside linebacker in a 4-3. He's a D-end. So now you have Ionitis, Payne, Allen, sweat, carrigan. Right now on your roster, five spots, five guys, four spots. You get settled on that roster too. It doesn't mean, look, I'd take right now having too much talent at positions than having not enough. You know, who are your ends? Well, sweats one of them. I think the other one's John Allen. I had this conversation. Remember, I did this on the podcast a week or two ago about why haven't they just at least tested the four or three?

Maybe I did it three weeks ago. I think Allen is more the D-N than Ionitis. I had this conversation with Cooley. Cooley's like Ionitis can play D-N too. Carrigan can obviously be a defensive end if they end up keeping Kerrigan. And maybe Carrigan would be a more impactful four-three defensive end. Well, you remember when he came out in the draft, he would. was being touted as a 4-3.

And one of the, I wouldn't say criticism, one of the questions about the Redskins picking him was, could he translate into that? Iraq-Po the same thing. Yeah. Coming out of Texas. Sweat needs to be a D-end in a 4-3 scheme. I still laugh.

Aaron, you miss this. During the Cowboy Redskin game, Joe Buck and Troy Aitman, one or the other, maybe they both said it, said that we were talking to Bill Callahan, and Callahan said that they've been dropping Montez Sweat into coverage too much for his liking. He had no kidding.

And so on Sunday they just had him rushing the quarterback and he had two sacks. And he ended up with seven sacks on the year. Two sacks, three tackles for a loss, broke up a couple of other quick screen opportunities by Prescott. He looked pretty good. Now, what if they draft Chase Young on top of that? These are all good problems to have. I personally think Cole Holcomb would make a very good weak side linebacker with his speed. I think Ryan Anderson would make a very good strong.

side outside linebacker. In terms of your middle linebacker, Ruben Foster, or John Bostic. I like Bostic. I thought Bostic at times was okay. As bad as the defense was this year, there was still some recognition that there's some talent. Sean Dionne Hamilton is a middle linebacker? I don't know. I like Holcomb, though, as a speedy outside will linebacker, weak side linebacker. And I thought Ryan Anderson was the most improved player on the team. And then, you know, Jack Del Rio, just as a quick note, you know, both of these coaches have coached three, four defenses before. You know, it's not like they've always been four-three guys, but Del Rio made it very clear that they see the team as a four-three team with the talent that they have, and I think we'll hear more about that

today at the press conference. You know, the other thing I hope they recognize is you play a four-three and you play a lot of cover one behind it. You got to get your free safety, but Landon Collins is you're in the box safety, man. He's good. You've got some things defensively. That's why I say minimum at minimum. This team's going to be better defensively. Last year I said, I'd be surprised if they're not improved defensively. Now I'll tell you, I'd be surprised if they're not massively improved defensively. Like 32nd on third down into the top 12th on third down next year. I don't know. We'll see. They need a safety. They need another corner. They need another pass rusher on defense. Okay, quick word about mybooky.ag.

If you are wagering these days and you don't have a place or you want to wager these days and you don't have a place, my bookie.ag, use my promo code. Kevin D.C., they'll match up to half of your deposit. You want a place that's reliable. Mybooky.ag is reliable. You want a place that offers quality lines and several different ways to wager as I was doing in-game action. the day before yesterday and even yesterday. Had Kentucky in-game. Went Kentucky in-game at a pick-ham, Aaron, against Virginia Tech. That was a hell of a game.

Their quarterback had 233 yards rushing as a former wide receiver. That was a really good game. Some of the games yesterday were pretty good, too. But my bookie.orgie.org, all the bowl action, all the NFL playoff action coming up, and use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. They'll match your deposit up to $1,000 on a $2,000 deposit. it. All right, let's get Scott Van Pelt on the show here. Happy New Year to you. You too. You haven't, you haven't been on the show in a while. You know, way too early for me.

I know. On the radio show, I know that to be true, but, you know, on the podcast, we're much more flexible. But I, I, for years, as many of you out there listening, know, Scott was basically a weekly guest on the radio show. And even on last year's podcast, before I went, went back to radio every week. I mean, we missed weeks here and there because you're on vacation or something happened, but for the most part, a consistent guest, and people always enjoyed the conversations. But I feel like as we just called you to get you on, it's actually been a while. It's been too long.

Do you feel that way? Are you being sarcastic? Because I sense some sarcasm there. No, well, of course that, because you know me and you assume I'm thinking along with you. As you say this, I'm thinking, man, I don't like, did I fall out of favor? what happened here. I used to come on and do this quite a bit, and this is the first time in quite a while. But a good time to come on and talk, given what's going on. Yeah, it is. Well, you know, it's not about that. It's about me, you know, respecting your

schedule and how late you're on, and, you know, just got to the point where I just didn't want to bother you anymore. We bother each other all day long, not on the air. Why continue to do it on the air? But I'm glad you're on. What do you make of the Redskins right now? It's frightening to me, and here's why. I think it's the godfather scene. I think they're pulling me back in. Really? I think so.

I think I'm, and I'm regretting it because all the while I'm saying, son of a bitch, they're going to convince me that there's an adult in the room, and it's Rivera, and it got rid of Bruce, and we're going to turn this thing around, and I'm going to get back on board here, and I'm going to find my Charlie Taylor jersey, and I'm going to dust it off. Honestly, here's the truth.

I sent a text to our friend Steve Sands the other day, who, like me, is a native Washingtonian like me, a kid that grew up with the skins, and I said, this is the kind of thing that could get me optimistic, and he said, I feel the exact same. And Kevin, I think a lot of people around the area like me who have felt, I don't know what the right word is, disenfranchised is too dramatic. But there's people that used to care who have gotten to a point where they just don't anymore.

I didn't do that because I wanted to. I did it because the organization had left me no choice. A guy like Rivera, I believe, is the sort of person who, if he's given the autonomy, economy to do his job can do it well and get this franchise back to a place where you at one o'clock on Sunday say, right, I'm not going to watch the Reds then. What channel what channel the Redskins on? Wow. So a couple of things there. Number one, I'm a Ron Rivera fan too, and I have been for a while. I just think he's a hell of a coach and I've always enjoyed, you know, every time,

you know, I've had Carolina or watched Carolina. I've always had this sense. You know what? They're well coached. They're tough. They're hard-nosed. They're physical. They're just well-coached. And we know how respected he is as a leader and a mentor and all that stuff. It was actually the response from his former players when he got fired, I found to be incredible. Because it was all overwhelmingly positive. Not one disgruntled ex-player saying anything negative. And they've all gone out of their way to say incredibly positive things about him to the Redskins. But beyond that, you said something else. And that is as long as he's allowed to do. what he wants to do. Why now versus when Shanahan was hired and given all of that perceived authority? And that's a reasonable question, which is why I said I think I feel like I regret it as it's happening

because what evidence would there be that suddenly Dan Snyder would have this epiphany that he would not put his finger in the soup, that he would actually let Ron Rivera cook the meal. I would think this many years of sustained decline from within his customer base and going Sunday after Sunday to that stadium to see it taken over by opposing fans. Look, I don't know the man,

but I don't think he's a dummy. I think you can get blinded. think you can see what you want to see, but at some point I believe he must be a smart man. And a smart man at some point had to do the smart thing. And convincing Ron Rivera to take this job, and I think that given the other opportunities, he would have had other suitors. I was stunned that they were able to get a hire of this consequence, because my fear was that given how the organization had sort of fallen into disrepair, they wouldn't be able to attract

this level of a coach. So that alone is encouraging to me that Ron Rivera was willing to take it. And look, I don't know the behind-the-scenes conversation. I mean, maybe he just wanted a gig, and it's the first port in a storm, but he took it. I don't know. But I'm choosing to be optimistic here, even though, as you ask, you know, intelligently, why would I think this? Because that sort of defies intelligence, even what's going on.

I think what it is, Kevin, is after this many years of feeling indifferent, I feel I'm tired of that. So I want to kind of buy in. And look, if I'm Charlie Brown running up to kick the football, and I'm, you know, I'm flat on my back flying through the air, kidding ready to land on my back after they hoodwink me again, and so be it. I mean, I just feel like I want to root for the team again. And this gives me a window into that. That's a young defense that I think has talent and Chase Young and Paskins look good in the end. Let's go. Let's go.

I mean, so what's weird about this is because it hasn't. even been the dysfunction that sort of pushed you away. You know, geography sort of pushed you away. Your job sort of pushed you away. I mean, you grew up a Redskins fan. You were a huge Redskins fan. You remember the Glory Days. You were a massive fan going to games, you know, living and dying, just like all of us did with all those games. But you and I have been friends for 30 plus years, and I would say over the last 20, you haven't cared at all. Like, and it wasn't about Snyder or the losing or anything else. You just, you just. just sort of grew apart from the team.

Well, I... And now all of a sudden you're excited about it. Well, listen, I think, I think, and I've explained it this way, and granted, growing up there was a different time. It wasn't internet. It wasn't this, that. The other thing, he was watching Breeder. It was watching

George Michael. It was watching reading the post. It was watching the games, because that was the only game that was on in town, right? I was immersed in it, because I was surrounded by it and all of the ancillary, supporting programming, and also they were really good. So rooting for the team was just what you did.

Moving away as they did into 94-95, and the coinciding sort of decline made the breakup kind of an outable. It's like if you date somebody and then you move away and it's long distance. Well, if it's long distance in the person is kind of nuts, you go, you know, I don't really want to talk to you anymore. And so the Redskins, you know, they made it easy to kind of break up. overtime. You know, what's interesting, too, is that we, you and I have both over the years have been critical of people who've been so much into fantasy football where they don't root

for teams anymore. They just root for their fantasy football team. And in many ways, gambling did that to us. And to you, in particular, because geographically you were far away, and the way you just explained it, you didn't have all of those local things keeping you interested. But the bottom line is Sundays during football season for a long time, I mean, The Redskins games always important to me, but the sides that I have have always been almost equally important. And you – Sure. Go ahead.

No, go ahead. Well, yeah, I mean, sure. If you're trying to root home of some underdog getting four and a half, I mean, that becomes where you're emotionally tied. And then, you know, the fantasy piece, which is actually a fascinating conversation about where the league is. Because I think more and more, like I almost wonder. Actually, I don't wonder. I would say I would bet that the greater percentage of fans of football now are fans of their team, meaning fantasy team that an actual team that belongs to a city.

I really believe that. And look, for the league's concern, as long as you're interested in something that you're going to watch in the ratings, they're sounding and they're bulletproof. But that, look, that sure, that happened. But look, that also happened, Kevin, to you and to me, because the Redskins not being what they were under Coach Joe. And nothing, like, even if you had big money on a side, I mean, unless you were stuck and you're going to have to settle with somebody with money you didn't have. Unless that happened. God knows we've been there.

Your heart and your emotions were far more invested in the outcome of a Redskin game on a Gip Sunday than on your sheet through the years. No, but then... Yeah, but I'm sorry. Yeah, go ahead. It pivoted. It pivoted because the bottom fell out. But, I mean, I say the bottom fell out. Like, the bottom has really only fallen out here lately, locally.

And you know it better than I being there. And what the true appetite is going out to the game and supporting that team. And Rock Bottom gets used really casually. I thought about Boswell wrote an article, like, it was after the Eagle game or something that it was. No, the Jet. I don't even remember. It was the Jet game. And it was like, that was Rock Bottom.

and I just thought it was a curious time to pick to say this. I mean, this more than anything else. There have been so many episodes of it. I said on my show, it's not a moment. It's a perpetual state. This is a perpetual state of Rockbottom. So getting rid of the GM and getting a coach like Rivera, honestly, it feels like this crack on the horizon where I think I see the sun coming up.

You know, maybe it's an oncoming train. I don't know. I just choose to be optimistic right now. Yeah, I mean, I spent three hours this morning and even the first part of this podcast just saying, I am in a different place with a different outlook right now for the moment, you know, because Bruce Allen's gone. That was an absolute must. It was the easy thing to do.

It was the obvious thing to do. It was done two to three years too late, and I don't think Ron Rivera would be here if Bruce Allen were here. I don't think there's any chance of that. And then on top of that, you know, the next step was actually, the one that was more impressive. And you mentioned it, and you're 100% right, that they were able to attract Ron Rivera. Ron Rivera probably would have had better options, at least, you know, perception-wise, better options, and he chose here. Now, one of the things people say about Dan, he's not great as a public speaker or a public communicator, but he's a very good, small gathering

one-on-one salesman. And I had somebody tell me last week, you know, you'd be surprised. If he, he might end up getting somebody that you think they can't attract because they get into the room and Dan convinces them about this place. And you know, you mentioned the nostalgia. I actually, just as an aside, I hope there's not a lot of nostalgic talk today. It's too Scott repetitive, rinse and repeat with the three Lombardi trophies in the announcement of a new coach or the announcement of Scott McLuhan or whatever. And it's always about this storied history and brand. Nobody gives a shit about that anymore. You know, and one of the encouraging. quoting quotes from Rivera in the press statement that announced him being hired,

as he said, you know, and I'm paraphrasing because I had it in front of me before. Let me see if I can find it real quickly. Oh, here it is. While I love the story history of the franchise, I'm focused on the future and excited for the opportunity. I just hope today somebody out there and they've never been very good at sort of, you know, feeling what their customers are feeling. I just hope somebody says, don't trot the Lombardi trophies out today and don't talk. about Joe Gibbs in the past because it's their generations now, two of them that don't even

know of that. It just doesn't matter anymore. You're right. You're right. And honestly, the smart thing, because I mean, look, if you want them, they're hard to win. You know, there are many of them. There are plenty of teams that don't have any and threes a lot. But I agree because I think, I hate this word, but it's the optics of the optics, what it looks like when you trot those out is it's sad to me because it's, you know, it's so long ago. The smart thing would be to say, we're proud as an organization of our past

and that we have won those trophies. But what we're trying to do is to, as the playoffs begin this weekend, we're trying to get back to the first step of that. And it's a process to get to that, and we feel like we've made that that significant first step in hiring this man, right? Because that's what it is.

You're just trying to get back to the tournament, be one of the 16, the 18th, rather, that have an opportunity and then go from there. But you're right. The idea of starting at the end at the finish line, being like, you know, we're trying to get another one of these. Pretty trophy, yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, it's an old trick.

How about trying to have a majority of the fans in the stadium when you're at home next year against somebody? How about that? It's six, too, one of the six per conference. So the other interesting thing about Rivera, I'm a fan, it sounds like you are too. And I've had multiple friends say to me, dude, the guy coached for nine years, he's got six losing seasons in Carolina. And you know, what's funny is I had to go look it up to make sure that they were being straight up with me because it didn't seem that way to me.

But, you know, the last two have been because his franchise quarterback was compromised last year in the second half of the season and really not a part of this season. And, you know, and one of those losing seasons, they actually won the season. the division and won a playoff game as a 7-8-and-1 division winner. But still, I just have always felt, not based on results, but based on watching that team. And they've had a lot of big games over the years. I thought they were well-coached. What do people, you know, what do you think and what are the people that you work with think when someone says, Ron Rivera's a really good coach, except for the fact that he's lost in six of nine seasons, he's had a losing record. It's just weird. Well, I'll tell you what I think is at a start. When I hear

that stat. I say, okay, cool. And the Washington Redskins this century have had five winning seasons, and one of them was eight, seven, and one, and another was nine, seven. So I'm not too troubled about what you're telling me, particularly understanding the context of those losing seasons they had, as you just explain. I start with this. His players adored him, and he has an unusual kind of level of buying from guys. Look, he did. Played in the Super Bowl game as a player. Got to the Super Bowl as a coach. He understands what it is, what the

ask is of his players, and he gets a level of commitment. And you pointed out something about Carolina. And look, Teper comes in and he's got kind of a different idea of what he wants to Do you and I get it? He's an owner that wants to shake things up, and he's talked about his process and what he's intent on doing. Okay, I get it. So you feel like you need a new voice in the room.

That happened. Happened to Andy Reed in Philadelphia. Obviously, Rivera didn't have as much success in Philly, but it's the same idea, right? So all I know is everybody that I know that knows him from within the league are like make the big googly eyes, like the emoji, and they're like, I'm amazed they could get him. Like, that's an incredibly good get.

And that comes from inside football, their level of respect for him. And just the idea that on the way out there wasn't a single descending voice, there wasn't anybody MFing the guy about he was, you know, he was full of this or that, no, none of that. So that's why I was as wowed by this hire. And people are going to get bogged down and, you know, only three winning C. I get it. I understand that.

But I think there's new ones to numbers. You know, you can make them say whatever you want. I'll say he was still over 500. You'll say, well, $1.50. It only helps with that. And that's fair. But I'll say they're only been 50-some-odd Super Bowl. And he got his team to one of them.

So, look, again, why not go to the cohort-hater route? Well, they just did that. You know, they did that. And I wasn't anti-grude at all. But, like, you know, last year it was hire anybody that was friends with Sean McVeigh. Did anybody you know him? You ever met McVeigh? Okay, you come be our coach.

You know what I mean? It was a young, hot guy with a beard? All right, let's hire you. I mean, there's these sort of cyclical approaches around the NFL. The Redskins need an old-school dude like Ron Rivera at this time in their franchise history. Does it guarantee it's going to work? No. But look, it's good enough to get two old heads like you and me kind of nodding and going, all right, let's do what we got here.

And that's a big deal, in my opinion. Yeah, I mean, yes, I completely agree. I mean, the bottom line is it's not just a new coach they need in Washington. They need a new culture. And he... No, it's damn good, Kevin. Damn good. It's damn good culture.

But he got to Carolina off a 2 and 14 season that, you know, he went through this with a rebuild, with a culture change. And I bet we'll hear him speak to that today. And I think it's an admission from the owner to talk about culture, which he did in his statement when he fired Bruce Allen when he hired in the press statement that we got yesterday morning on the announcement of Ron Rivera. It's... Scott, big pick.

sure Bruce has gone, better than expected coach and leader and culture changer and Ron Rivera in. The huge wild cards here are will the owner own differently moving forward and is the quarterback good enough? Because it doesn't matter how great a culture you have and how great of a head coach that you have. In this league, you got to have the quarterback too. And it's interesting because that'll be one of the first things. If he isn't, if he comes to the conclusion that Haskins isn't the guy, and you know me, I think we've talked about this, I'm much more bullish on Haskins than I was a few months ago. I actually think there's a chance he could end up being a pretty decent quarterback. But if he doesn't, Rivera, he's got to be able

to have the power to say to Dan, your guy's not going to cut it. We've got to go out and make, we've got to draft somebody. I've spent three months with him. We've got to draft somebody. That's so true, because as we all know that the affinity that the owner has for certain players, can create not just a blind spot, but a blind fold, right? And we all know that that was his guy. And I think we, like you, saw a guy, and I'm with you. He was better in the end that I was expecting. But you're right, if Rivera just comes in it for whatever reason,

if over time it reveals itself that it's not going to work, and Rivera goes to the owners, is this going to work in Snyder's because he says, well, yes, it is. that's where the record scratch, you know, happens. And you're like, oh, not this again, right? Yeah, no, it's... But listen, let's choose to be optimistic. I am.

Because it costs the same. God knows we've had our kind of head down for so long. It costs the same. But when you are, when you've been burned multiple times and you've had this, you know, moment of light at the end of the tunnel, optimism, you know, 2010 is a perfect example. It's almost directly, you know, it's almost a perfect apples to apples. Vinnie Serato gone, Mike Shanhan in.

You know, now Bruce Allen gone, Ron Rivera in. We'll see, you know, he's going to hire a hell of a staff, Del Rio already hired, and we'll see what kind of front office structures around him. And if he does have all of that power, which I would prefer, and it's legitimate power, you know, it'll be the first time he's had that. Who knows if he's a good GM and head coach? You know, there's a lot here. but the bottom line is it's better today than it was a week ago by miles.

It is. By miles. But you're 100% right, you know. Like I can say it costs the same. And somebody, you wouldn't be cynical. You would, but if you asked, sure, it costs the same, but why would you spend your money on optimism given what you just laid out? And my only answer would be that I shrug and say because I want to. And that's really what I do.

Yes. Well, you have to. It's not that you want to. It's that you actually feel it for a moment. So why be dishonest? I do, but I feel it because I'm allowing myself to. And I, you know, and I haven't really had an opportunity to do so. But as you point out, a decade ago, we had that chance. And then, you know, the cycle began anew. Yeah, it did. It's just, it's funny because I took so many calls today and, you know, on Monday and Tuesday. and so many people have this completely rational and justified reaction, which is they're not going to allow themselves to be optimistic because they've been burned too often,

and that's what they're choosing to do. And oh, by the way, history is on their side, not our side right now. All right. So there you go. Scott Van Peltz actually thinking about becoming a Redskins fan once again. That's what the last few days have produced. here. Let's talk some college football and go back to Saturday night. How crazy and how good and how entertaining was that Clemson Ohio State game. And did you feel like the better team won the

game? I don't. I don't. I thought Ohio State was, I thought Ohio State for a much larger portion of the game was better. I know their fan bait is irate over officiating. Oh yeah, they're quite irate. A portion of whom have informed me on the Twitter machine that our network made it happen because of our buy-end to the ACC network. I like that. That's a hell of a trick. So we as a network chose the teams in the playoff, and then we made the officials fix

the game. That's an incredible amount of power we wield. I don't believe that to be true. I believe that the scoop and score call was awful. I thought it was a catch and a fumble and a touchdown. I thought that hurt Ohio State, obviously. However, they did have the lead after that, and then they let Clemson go 94 yards and four plays.

Lawrence on that drive was impeccable. But Ohio State settled, Kevin, for three red zone field goals. They were the second best team in the country scoring touchdowns when they got inside the 20. They were just inside the 20. They were inside the 5, and they settled for three field goals, and they were only ahead 16-0. If they were up 21-0, 24-0-0,

then Lawrence isn't doing any of that running. and, you know, look, I thought Ohio State was the better team. And frankly, as a fan of just college football, Ohio State LSU was the game I wanted to see because I thought those two teams were the best, and I thought whoever was second best was fractionally better than Clemson. And Clemson showed you everything you'd want a championship team to show you. They kept Ohio State out of the end zone. They had a glimpse of an opportunity to get back in it, and they did.

So I'm not saying it was fluky at all at Clemson. I thought what happened was a great team got a chance to take it, and they did. I just felt that Ohio State, by and large, what was better for more of the game. But in the end of it, you know, it doesn't feel unjust to me, although it does. I know a lot of Ohio State fans that the outcome was the outcome. Yeah, there is no doubt. First of all, and Aaron was on a ship on a cruise to the Bahamas, and he's a huge college football fan. you really missed a phenomenal football game.

It had it all. Oh, you did you get to see it? I got to see this. I mean, it had it had incredible plays, incredible players. It had game impacting calls, crazy replay reviews, all of it. But the bottom line. Let me interject one thing. One more thing before you get to your bottom line.

My guy, Stanford, Steve, was at that game. I know, and it dropped a pass. The last game he played in college was the Rose Bowl. Okay, so that's the level he played at. and he said, man, I haven't seen a game that physical in a long, long time. And so when a guy who's done it walks away from field level shaking his head at what those teams were kind of doing, it just adds to what you're saying about players and the plays and the moment, just the level of physicality and the level of one-two on both sides, he found, you know, worth mentioning.

Sorry, the bottom line was what? It was, well, but just to add to that before I get to the bottom line, which you've already stayed and I'm just going to restate. that game was one of those games, and I love those games that are so hard hitting, and you could see it the wear and tear on the players as the game went on. They were exhausted. Justin Fields really ran out of gas in many ways, even though he was in the midst of producing perhaps the game-winning drive before that tragic interception if you had Ohio State in the game, you know, laying the points. But the bottom-lawing.

line was Ohio State kicked field goals instead of scoring touchdowns, and it wasn't that they were stopped. They stopped themselves. They dropped two touchdown passes. And if they're up 20 to nothing or 24 to nothing at that point, it's over. Like, it's over. Ohio State's not giving up a 24 to nothing lead to Clemson. The last part of that game, though, Trevor Lawrence, you know, all of the borough talk, all of the Tua talk, all of the Trevor Lawrence talk of the last couple of years. Like, you know, here are the two quarterbacks that are going to be number one, you know, this year, and then it's the Trevor Lawrence year in 2021. I've watched so many Clemson games as you have, and there have been times where I've been like, is he really that good?

The other night when he, first of all, had that 65-yard run for a touchdown, where he showed speed, I had no idea he had that kind of speed, running away from Ohio State defensive backs. And then that final drive was legendary. And you could see him on the sideline, like, we're going to do this. He was the number one pick anyway in 2021, and lots of things changed. But man, was that a moment that sort of, I don't know what's going to happen in the championship game, but he already had maybe a moment that he doesn't need to surpass. No, I agree. I mean, you talk about, like, you know, in college, it's always like a Heisman moment. But that was a different That was a number one draft pick moment.

Against that team, against that remarkable Ohio State team, you're 94 yards away, and you need a field goal, and four plays later they're playing the fight song because you scored a touchdown. Four, four. That's all it took for them to get down. And part of it maybe is the exhaustion of the Ohio State defense, maybe, but also you just had the right calls

and the right guy at the controls making the plays. But look, if he was eligible last year, he'd have been the number one pick in the draft. that's what everybody tells us from NFL circles. That's who he was last year. And obviously he can't come out this year either. And the year Burroughs had, which is just insane. And now that too, Lawrence and his team will have to go up against him.

You know, that'll be some. I mean, LSU, they've been so, so good. And what they've done offensively has been really amazing to see. And I'm curious what they'll do. that Brent Venable's coached to Clemson defense has been great through the years. But a win for them would be slowing down, not stopping. There's no stopping that LSU offense. But if you could slow them down, it's like if you keep in the 30s,

you probably feel pretty good about yourself. You know, the Redskins have the number two pick in the draft, fortunately. They didn't give up. They didn't give that up in the last couple of weeks when they nearly beat Philadelphia and the Giants at home. And, you know, so a lot of Redskins fans were tuned into college football for the first time. with the playoff game. They don't watch it as much as you and I do, and Aaron does. And Chase Young's been a dominant player this year, dominant. Like, you know, McShay's already said he's better than both of

the Bosa's. And most people have him as the number one overall guy on their draft board, even though Cincinnati, more likely than not you would think would take a quarterback, perhaps borough at number one. So a lot of Redskinned fans hit me up with, man, your boy's not that good, he was terrible. He didn't come up big in the biggest game that mattered. I actually disagree with that, What did the guys down there are up there that you talked to, and what did you think about Chase Young's performance in that game? Because that was a big moment for him. I mean, I would first ask the people that thought he didn't play well,

like how big is your TV? You got one of them big ones where you can see the whole game or you got like an older TV. Yeah, exactly. Like with a wood console. Like, are you kidding me? I mean, Clemson's O-line did a remarkable job, but they did so by doubling him at every turn.

and even then he's still fractionally a second away from getting to Lawrence. Keep in mind who they're going up against. The quarterback they're going up against is as good as anybody, and he was just getting passes away where Young didn't arrive. Like, I mean, look, Ohio State was playing the best team they played all year in Clemson. So it would stand a reason that Young would be challenged in ways maybe he hadn't been throughout the year. So nobody put it this way. Not one same evaluator left away with anything other than the same grade they had to chase up.

The same disruptor. He's the same level of talent. If you didn't see what you, like video game numbers and six sacks, well, that's because the opposition they were playing was working. Exactly. Did you have Wisconsin yesterday? Wasn't involved. Oh, you weren't. That would have been a bad beat if you did.

I mean, unbelievable. Again, like Ohio State, maybe even more so. They were better than Oregon, the entire game, and somehow lost that game. They had their punter just drop a ball. Just dropped it. The second game in a row. Just second time. It happened to him the Big Ten title game.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, just dropped the punt. Snap. What are you doing? And he got returned for a touchdown. Yeah. Yeah, yesterday, not so good. I had Minnesota.

That was good. I had Michigan who really was in that game the entire game. If you looked at that final score and said, Alabama blew out, you know, Jim Harbaal loses another game. They were up at halftime Michigan was, and they were driving. But how many they have, Kevin? I mean, they had 16 and why they had 16. Yeah, because they were kicking field goals.

Yeah. But in that game, unlike the Ohio State Clemson game, Alabama's defense actually really did a good job in the red zone. But they had the ball driving in the first. fourth quarter down 21 to 16. And if you're getting seven and a half, it seemed like a pretty good spot until Jerry Judy stepped in on the next drive. Good God. They're pretty good. Their talent and their speed and their playmaking ability, a wide receiver. I don't know if we've ever seen it, unless we're seeing it right now with LSU. Yeah, pretty good. But in the end, it was not a great

day for you at the window. No, it wasn't. All right. Who do you like this weekend in the NFL playoff games. The opposite of who the public likes, but I don't know if that works anymore. We've been burned here for two months. Oh, we've gotten beaten up. Give me the pat. Give me the Pats, right? Yeah, because everybody thinks they're going to lose.

Yeah, I actually, do you like the Eagles? Yes, a lot. Yeah, me too. That's the one side that I'm convinced is going to win, although going against Russell Wilson is terrifying because he, he, more consistently pulls rabbits out of hats than anybody in the NFL that I swear to God I've ever seen. You almost did it Sunday night.

They're an inch of a way. You know, it was nuts sweet on our show the other night. I literally stopped the highlight before the last play, and it said, here is everything that is still in play going into the last play of the season. If Seattle scores, Green Bay is the one seed, this team's the two, dot a-ed-d-d-d-da-s, San Francisco's has got to go to Philadelphia. If San Francisco stops and the entire playoff picture is different as a result of the one play, which was the last play of the season.

And I was convinced Wilson was going to pull it off. I really don't know how he does it. I really don't. But I like Philadelphia in that game. Yeah, I do too. That game was so, I just laughed hard at the way it ended with the, I know you and I've had this conversation already, but nobody's heard it, so we'll have it again.

But the lack of a review of the clear defensive pass interference in the end zone on the third down play, that it was just so ironic that the team that it impacted the most was the team that the rule was essentially influenced by, which were the Saints. The Saints needed that play reviewed and called pass interference to get a first round by, and it wasn't even reviewed, which is crazy. You know, they have, they have apparently told Pete Carroll that they missed, that that was a defensive pass interference, but they didn't feel like it would have been overturned by replay because of essentially the way they've handled that all year long, which is it wasn't egregious.

Yeah, and that's what Ryan Clark said on the show Sunday, which I think is kind of its interesting honesty is that they put it in to try to prevent the obvious and, you know, the obvious miss in the Rams Saints game from last year. And this, they felt like would be more inserting themselves into it because, like, if you slow it down frame by frame, are you going to see interference on a lot of plays? yes, you probably will, and Ryan's thought was that those Ds are the types of place where they don't want to insert themselves, and I thought, okay, but if you've created that rule, and we all knew when they created that rule that they were going to create

that window where that could happen, that would have been a window where I think it would have been appropriate, but if they just chose not to insert themselves, then they didn't, but it would have been first down on the goal line. And then you would have had a decision to make if you Seattle, do you want to have one hand off to Marchion Lynch for your season because they didn't have any time out. Yeah, I think they could have gotten two plays if it had been, you know, stopped immediately. Throw one pass. Yeah.

Throw one pass if it doesn't work, it's a Lynch and you either. No, what I'm saying is I think maybe two runs they could have gotten it off because I think there were 16 seconds left, something like that. I forget what it was. But anyway, it's neither here nor there. I mean, Seattle would have obviously been more dangerous at home, but they are really banged up as a team too, which is another reason to sort of like Philadelphia. on Sunday. You know, I was hoping that Minnesota would go to Seattle in a wild card game. Had Seattle won that would have been what it would have been. It would have been Green Bay and New Orleans.

Your boy, Kirk. Instead, they got to go to the Superdome where nobody's given him a chance. So based on our theory, plus the eight might be the play. Stay tuned. Take them. Stay tuned. Stay tuned on. I hate betting against the Saints in the Superdome. It's just, it's one of those. Go ahead. It's one of those situations as sports fans. You just know it rarely goes well for the visitor. Rarely.

And even if it does, it's always like a hold onto your butt, like for 60 minutes kind of a deal. It's just like going against LSU or Ohio State for the bulk of this year. You just knew you were on the wrong side. And if you took it because it looked like the, you know, our theory told you you should. Like, well, our theory didn't hold water when it came to those particular. teams. And then ironically, you had Ohio State, and they were the right side, and it didn't cover.

Right. Exactly. That's been the way this year's gone. All right. Last thing, and I'll let you run. Maryland, Indiana, Saturday, they let the twins go, the Mitchell twins go. Give me your overall thoughts on them right now. Well, I mean, there was obviously a lot going on there. And I mean, you know, everything that you'd ever heard about those young men is that they were talented, I don't know the number, but they've been at a number of schools in high school. And, you know, if the situation just didn't mesh and there was some kind of issue between they and the coach or they were within the team, and that camp, that family felt like we're not getting the run.

We need to get them. For Mark to pull the plug or them to mutually decide, you know, to go in different directions. I mean, that's pretty telling to me because I don't think that, that's, that's pretty telling to me, because I don't think that that's the route you'd go unless you felt like it was just really untenable. The fact that, you know, the guy that got late is Shole Merrill L guy who was on track to, you know, be like the number one pick when he was a sophomore in high school before he got injured. He played well in the brief minutes he had against Bryant. And, you know, I wonder if he'll get bullied in the big tent just because he's so thin.

But, you know, a guy as tall and as skills as he is certainly is a unique person to have to account for. but I mean, I'm the same as you. I just hope that whatever got them sidetrack and bogged down, the air has been cleared because they've got a lot of talent. And it's just a matter – it's going to be a matter of making shots because this league's deep, and there are a lot of really decent teams, and so if Maryland's going to live up to what we're some lofty preseason hopes, it's as simple as making shots.

And I think for someone like a Wiggins or an Ayala, You just see the ball go in the basket a couple of times, and the fog lifts there, you know, when the sun comes out. So I think they're going to be good. I think it's been a chance for them to hit the reset button here. You get a couple at home against Indiana and Ohio State before you hit the road. And then, you know, you're hip-deep in the middle of a Big Ten play. Yeah, you're right. It is a deep league this year.

I don't know if the national championship team resides in the league. It might. Yeah, I agree. It is a deep league where there's not going to be an easy game. I mean, I don't think Northwestern's that good, but other than that, they're the one. They're the one team that if you play them, you've got to beat them. But, I mean, even Rutgers, you know, Bucks is good.

The same Seaton Hall team. They beat the same Seed and Hall team. By 20. Yeah, they beat them bad. So that team is better. I mean, we know, you know, like a team like a Penn State that people in the past haven't necessarily thought of as being a basketball team. That's a ranked good team right there.

It's a deep, deep league. Both Michigan's, Iowa's good. Obviously, Ohio State is the highest rank of the bunch of. You know, Maryland's got to go to Wisconsin and the Cole Center. Like, they've had some bad losses, but they just went to Tennessee and beat the crap out of that. So it's like, do you think it's going to be easy to go to Madison? Like, you can't get – that place is Cameron North. You can't get a call in that building.

No chance. You can get a call in that building. So, you know, you better buckle up when you go there. Yeah, they've held their last two teams to like 45 or fewer points. Like they're playing well all of a sudden. And the one game they lost here recently was at Rutgers, Wisconsin. Like, Maryland's got Rutgers twice. Rutgers might be really, really surprising in the league this year.

It's going to be an interesting league. They got to win these games at home. You know, there was so much, you think about this. It was a month ago, and we were talking about the team that was ranked third in the country. Right. Did they get up to third? The third or fourth? Where were they?

Third in the country, undefeated. We're sitting there talking about, wow, you know, everybody's like, how do you stop them? I mean, they got so many answers. Well, they got two less answers now, although I think Mariel actually played really well in that game and looked really confident. More sort of coordinated, I guess, would be the word than I thought he was. I don't know what I thought he was to begin with. But they got to win at home.

You know, like these, you know, a team like Indiana is okay. Got to beat Indiana at home on Saturday. Yep, have to. And then, you know, then you get a chance against the really high-ranking. It's a shame the students aren't away, but that should be a good building. And, you know, it's Ohio State. With Ohio State. Yeah.

All right. See you. Thanks for doing this. I appreciate it. Yep. Good talk. See you. All right.

Long conversation, but a good conversation with Scott. I'm looking at you, as we're mentioning the twins. You didn't even know that the twins. Exited the program, did you? No, that came out Friday night. I'm looking it up now, and I was already on the boat, and I had absolutely no idea. Yeah, the Mitchell Twins, highly recruited, you know, multiple high schools in just a few years. We talked about this on the podcast, I guess, on Monday.

But the higher rated of the two, number 21, McKell or Mackay, I forget which one is which, number 21, really talented. I actually thought both of them were talented, but apparently not a great chemistry situation. for them or for the team around them. The mother, Aaron went nuts on Twitter, criticizing Mark Turgeon. I'm seeing that now. I've heard a lot of support from people who would be in the know for Mark Turgeon on this one. It was a difficult situation. And you got a chance, and you didn't see this against Bryant.

This guy, Chole Muriel, 7-2, it got a chance to play. And he actually, you can see. There's something to him. him. First of all, around the rim, you're not going to go in and just dunk on him. He's going to throw it back a few times if he's in the game. He'll have a couple of block shots a game, but he actually looked more coordinated to me than I thought. All right. I wanted to get to a few more things real quickly before the end of the show. Number one, you know, Carolina's a team on the schedule for the Redskins next year. They're coming to FedEx Field.

Just, you know, Ron Rivera against his former team, maybe a Sunday open. in September, early September, maybe a Monday night game in late September. You threw out earlier, maybe a Thursday night game, you know, Carolina, Washington? Maybe. I mean, he gets to face his former team in his first year in Washington. Secondly, real quickly, before I get to one last thing on Ron Rivera, the Eric Schaefer story from the other day, Doc had it that he was fired, and then J.P. Finley had it that he was fired, and then pro football talk had it that he was fired, and then everybody else coming back saying, no, he's not. And then pro football talk saying, oh, we screwed it up. He isn't. Oh, wait a minute. He is. Wait a minute. He isn't. It went back and forth. It was crazy

there for a couple of hours on Tuesday about Eric Schaefer. And by the way, in what other city do people get wrapped up about the Eric Schaefer types? Only here. It's like Tony Wiley, the PR guy. Only in Washington do you know who Tony Wiley is. Eric Schaefer's been the cap guy, been the contract guy. You know, he's, The reason people know his name is because over the years you've looked for somebody that, you know, seem to be a high-quality guy and smart. And Eric Schaefer, compared to all of his, you know, peers and all of his workmates looked incredibly competent. But really, I mean, Eric Schaefer isn't instrumental or vital to the football operation.

He's well-respected. I don't know if he'll stick or not. Pro football talk ended up saying that he's going to be let go in May. So I don't even know how that works. He sticks around through free agency, through the draft, and then he's let go in May. Or maybe Ron Rivera likes him and keeps him. I have no idea. But anyway, this was my point on this.

A lot of you tweeted me. I had several friends text me and say, this is brilliant by Dan Snyder. He's trying to determine who the leak is in the organization and who the leak has been. Well, first of all, one of the big leaks got fired on Monday. Just understand that. Secondly, why would he leak something sort of that damages Eric Schaefer, even if it's just for a brief couple of hours? Like if he's going to leak something to find out who the leaker is,

he's going to leak some sort of big name, going to be hired as the offensive coordinator. Norm Turner's coming to Washington, you know, whatever. You know, why would he put Eric Schaefer through that? The answer is he wouldn't. So they weren't trying to be clever. And by the way, they're not clever enough to figure out how to do this. They weren't trying to identify who the leak in the organization was by leaking out that Eric Schaefer had been fired.

According to Pro Football Talk, Eric Schaefer was telling people the night before that he had been fired. I don't know if it's true or not. I do know this about my good friend Richard Doc Walker. He doesn't break news. The reason he brought it up is somebody, gave him, told him that, somebody who would be in the know, and Doc on the air was saying how shocked he was about it, how stunned he was about it, because he's a big Eric Schaefer fan. He likes Eric a lot.

Antonio Brown claimed that the workout in New Orleans was a publicity stunt. Did you see all of this about Antonio Brown's workout with Sean Peyton and the Saints and him claiming that this was an NFL publicity stunt? What does the NFL or the Saints get out of it for a publicity stunt? Well, here was the best part of this. The best part of it was that Antonio Brown, when he went to the Saints workout, Antonio Brown brought with him a bunch of friends and associates, including someone who was documenting the visit with a video camera

and posting clips of this visit on social media throughout the day. he's claiming that it was a publicity stunt, yet he was the one that brought the cameraman and was posting all of these clips to social media. I can't figure out whether or not he's just stupid or whether or not he's just really troubled. I think it's the latter. I don't think he's brilliant,

but I think it's more of the latter. I just keep feeling this is not going to end well for him. All right. Lastly, Mike Silver wrote this. story about Ron Rivera last week before even the rumors about Ron Rivera to the Redskins were even really started. And I read some of it to you either on Monday or Tuesday. I forget which day this week. I read to you the part where basically Rivera is anxious to get back to work, anxious to coach and talking about some of the things that he would be looking for in his next venture.

He was going to look at the whole picture. He wanted to be able to get the coaching staff that he wanted. He wanted to be able to collaborate and have cooperation between him and the general manager and ownership, yada, yada. So I went through that the other day. I didn't read to you this one section of Mike Silver's story, which you should read. It's actually a really good profile of Ron Rivera over the last month in particular, but also about him in Carolina and his life, actually. Just Google Mike Silver and Ron Rivera, and you'll get the story. It's on NFL.com. But there's was this one section of the story that Silver wrote that said Rivera was recalling a story from early in his Panthers tenure when he publicly took the blame for his player's failure to execute the coach's

plan. The following day, he read a quote from one of his players in the newspaper that set him off. Now, keep in mind, he showed up in Carolina in 2011. They were off a two and 14 season. They were several years removed from the really good John Fox teams. Carolina had some really good teams under John Fox. They went to the Super Bowl with John Fox, lost to the Patriots in the Super Bowl, had some really good teams. Jake Deloam, remember him as the quarterback of the Panthers in the Super Bowl? So Rivera got there, and it's very similar to what he sees in Washington, I'm sure, which is a chance to change the culture and to take a franchise at Rock Bottom, they were at 2 and 14, and turn it around. But he was recalling this story from early in that Panthers tenure

when he's trying to change the culture, when he's trying to create a winning atmosphere. year. And he took the blame for the player's failure to execute the coach's plan and a loss early in that first season, I'm assuming, is what they're referring to. And then the next day, he reads a quote from one of his players in the newspaper that sets him off. And then he described it, quote, the player said, you know, this is how we did it last year. It worked great for us. I'm not sure why he, Rivera, wants to change things. And Rivera recalls he lost his freaking mind. Quote, I had this PowerPoint presentation all set, but instead I walked into this meeting. I had the newspaper rolled up, and I got in front of the team.

I said, let me tell you guys something, just so you fucking understand this. If you do things the way we ask, the way you're coached, the way it's planned, and it works, you guys will get all the kudos. If it fails, it's on me. That's what I'm telling you. But if you go out and you do your own damn thing and we fucking lose, it's on you. And I will never fall on the sword for you again. That's fucking bullshit.

Sit there and say that what we did last year worked. So 2 and 14 was fucking good enough for you guys? Fuck you! And I threw the paper down and walked out. I was very blunt about it. And that's it. If they're not all in, if they're not willing to do it your way, it's time to fucking get rid of these guys.

And that's what happened. We systematically got rid of guys that weren't doing it our way, closed quote. That's what you're getting in Ron Rivera, Redskine fans. You're getting a no-nonsense, no bullshit guy who has incredible, incredible respect after he's gone through all of this from all the players that stuck with him. He is going to allow people, this is going to be new for this organization, okay? Humility, humility, quality. he's going to, if they win, everyone else will get the credit.

If he loses, he's going to take all the blame, but he's going to do it with his people. So the most important thing about what happens after today and moving forward is he gets to do it his way. He's got to be able to do it his way and only his way. Hopefully he negotiated that into his contract. Hopefully that's the reason he took this gig is because he was promised that. And given the history of this organization, I've said this for many years, if you're going to come in here, you better not just get a promise. You better get it in writing.

I'm excited about Ron Rivera. I am. I'm excited that Bruce Allen's gone. I'm excited about what's to come. I just hope that, as I mentioned earlier in the show, the two wildcards, the owner and the quarterback, turn out to be positives for the organization moving forward. I feel better about the quarterback than I do the owner. But I do like Ron Rivera.

Tomorrow, Tommy, you'll be with me, and we will obviously recap the Ron Rivera press conference, which takes place a couple of hours from now. Thanks to Scott. Great to have Aaron back. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Enjoy the day.