The Kevin Sheehan Show - Swing & Miss On Stafford

Episode Date: February 1, 2021

Cooley and Kevin discussed the big Stafford to Rams trade from Saturday and the earnest attempt Washington made to bring Stafford to DC. Plenty of what's next now that WFT has admitted that they are looking to upgrade at quarterback. The boys discussed Jay Gruden's shot at Dan Snyder and talked about the wild Wizards win last night. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. All right. Cooley and Kevin Monday, which will include a lot of discussion on the Matt Stafford trade to the Rams. The reports coming out of Houston that if Houston is to trade to Sean Watson,

they'll be looking for two first, two seconds, and two young defensive stars. That sounds familiar. And I do want to weigh in on one of the craziest NBA finishes of the year, which involved our Washington Wizards last night, which I will get to at some point during the program. But Cooley said he wanted to start the show with a couple of what we used to call back in the day. What do you got? Like, hey, I got something for you.

What is it? Back in the day, like last month. Yeah. I have two things. The second involves the Matt Stafford Trade. The first is this. I told you November, shit. Sometime around then, I tore my meniscus in my bad knee.

Yeah. I have a trick knee. I think most people that have ever listened to this show know that. You got a trick knee, yeah. No cartilage on the inside of my left knee compartment. And I tore my meniscus. I went and got an MRI, so it is torn. but I've torn it three times and all three times I've thought, or all three times it's

formed cis. This is actually the fourth. So for the last, at least six weeks, I've decided to go with no surgery, hoping it would form a cyst, but I've kept saying, I'm going to just, I've got to start doing some workout stuff. You've been in pain, by the way, with respect to your knee. It's been very painful. Very, daily nuisance. Yeah, you've told me.

I mean, normally at least a five. And you're not a complainer, but you've mentioned it a couple times that you've been in pain. So I went to the gym today. Yeah. Oh, boy. Now, I know that it's just physical therapy stuff that I'm going to do. And I understand how to do it because I've done it. And getting back from the original knee surgery and over the last few years.

And once I get going, it's normally okay. Now, this meniscus tear could change things. But I'm going to spend a month trying to just do rehab and see if it forms a cysts and gets better. Dude, the three machines I did today, you know where you lay on your belly and it's a machine that you do a hamstring curl. Right. 10 pounds, one leg, single leg, 10 pounds. I couldn't, I can't even bend my knee all the way back. Well, you got, you got, my whole body was violently shaking.

Well, you got to do something. You got to take care of this. You got to get... I'm working on it. I'm explaining to you what I did today. Okay. So then you know the machine, the straight leg extension, you sit there, and then there's a thing that goes in front of your shins.

Right. 35 pounds, single leg. Couldn't do it. Former NFL player. Oh, my right leg can do 100. Single leg, I can do 100 with my right leg. No problem. So what's next?

And then I did the leg, the one where you sit, that leg press. thing that machine. Right. No weight. Barely could get 10. No weight. So where is this heading? Knee replacement? No, I think I'm going to get better. So amazingly enough, I feel way better now. Really? This is an hour ago. It's psychological hit, but you're saying- No, it's just getting it to flex and bend as much as I did and actually utilize the muscles a little bit so they work. I mean, my muscles are not even firing. Is this why the Giants didn't sign you, ultimately? No, I was an incredible shape at that point. Keep in mind, I was fine until November. I had a slightly arthritic knee on the needle compartment. Do you think, though, that they saw

this coming for you? No. Okay. I don't. I think that there was something else. You just had a bad a workout? No, I had a great workout. Yeah, I remember you telling me you had a great workout. No, I think there was something else to it. What do you think the other? I have no idea, but I was also there with Amandola. No. Wes. The tight ends coach.

No. Wes who? The Patriots receiver. Oh, Wes Welker. Yeah, that's right. I remember it was either Amandola or Welker. Both of us had a great workout. And that was when Coughlin was the coach. And Coughlin kind of pulled us both side and said, we didn't know either of you were going to be here. They didn't tell us. They said we had a workout.

It's weird to not know that veterans like you guys would be a part of a workout. What did Coughlin say to you? You never told me that other than that. They said I had a great workout. And then we met with Jerry Reese, who was the GM or I individually. And Jerry just said, I appreciate you guys coming. Appreciate you coming. I thought you did a good job today.

We'll let you know if anything happens in the future. They needed a tight end right then. Right. I promise you, I promise you I had a good workout. Remember the situation, you went out, it was an Arizona situation, and the guy from Cincinnati, I forget his name, the titan that played for Cincinnati, then played for Arizona. You know who I'm talking about?

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And you thought that basically they just used you as a way to incent him to get in or something like that? Yes. Why are we for blanking on the name? Jerome. Gresham. Germain Gresham.

Yeah, Jerome. He wasn't signing. He signed, and then it was reported, I never went there and worked out. We were setting up a workout. It was reported that we were setting up a workout. He signed two days later. Got it. And that was one of those where the Cardinals just wanted him to think,

oh, they're bringing in a bigger name, Chris Cooley. a dude. Yeah, they're getting their dude. So you better hurry up and get in here. Could be. By the way, Gresham was not very good. He was not. He was a first round pick, wasn't he? I know. I think he was. Was he a first round pick? By the Bengals, right?

Wasn't it the Bengals that he played for before the Cardinals? Yeah, he was definitely with the Bengals. Yeah. I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, he was the 21st pick overall. Wow. Oklahoma. Yeah, Oklahoma, right. Germain?

Yeah, he was never never a big-time player in the league. Athlete, though. Actually, his first three years in Cincinnati, 52, 56, 64 receptions. 2014 for Cincinnati, he had 62 receptions. Did he play well for Arizona when he got there? No.

Never had more than 37 receptions for 300. Is he in the league or not? No, he is not in the league. He played nine years. He was an athlete. He wasn't terrible. No. I didn't think he was terrible.

I mean, not in Cincinnati. I couldn't remember what he did in Arizona. Really average in Arizona. I'm pulling up his... Four years in Arizona. Ooh, I'm pulling up his Wikipedia page. He was a two-time pro bowler in 2011, 2012. Cincinnati.

Yeah. He also apparently was a big-time basketball player. growing up in Ardmore, Oklahoma, was the Southern Conference player of the year in high school. Big time. There you go. There we go. So here's my second.

What do you got? Yep. The other day, a friend of mine was talking about a car lease. Yeah. And how they got out of it early. Oh, he was? Yeah. Okay.

and I'm going to compare this Jared Goff thing to my friends Carlis. Okay. I saw a report by Mike Silver, who's a really good friend of mine. We've talked. Yeah. About Jared Goff. And Silver wrote, Goff wants to be somewhere where somebody wants him.

I called Silver and I said, they don't want him. It was the throw in. Like the Rams had. a lease on Jared Goff. There was about 16 months left on their car lease. They had 6,000 miles left over. Back bumper's falling apart, dents in the doors, need new tire. Yeah.

Terrible gas mileage. Right. I mean, you never know if it's going to start. It's got an alternator problem. It's got some kind of problem. But they're invested in it big time, man. They paid a lot of money for this car. It was an expensive lease.

And now they got a better car on the flip side of it. And they said, hey, if you'll take our lease on this car, we'll do the deal. Jerry Gough, was it desired in Detroit? Come on. They don't really want him. Yeah, you know, there's... They got a guy that they got a car they can drive where they go car shopping for another car. Look, usually when you lease a vehicle, there comes a point where if you're going to lease another one,

it makes sense for both the dealership and for the person who's leasing the vehicle. vehicle to turn it in and get a new one. And then sometimes when you go to turn it in, what they realize is, oh, my God, he's over mileage by a lot. The vehicle's all dinged up. This is going to cost him a fortune to get into this new one. But the person can always say, you know what, just take it back. I don't want it anymore.

I'll go drive something new. And if they've been a longtime customer, they might actually say, no, no, no, we'll figure it out for you. But in this particular case, the Lions weren't long-time customers of the Rams or vice versa. No, they weren't. Does the dealership swap out here? In all of this, Cooley, I did read right before we started recording this podcast today that Brad Holmes and the Lions actually really like golf. And I'm looking for Peter Schrager put this out. Peter Schroger, I think works for Fox. and said that there were teams that really do and still believe in golf. I'll read you the – let me see if I can find it.

Here's the tweet. I've spoken to multiple teams this morning, and this was yesterday morning. I just saw this tweet, who made calls to the Rams in regards to golf as well. This wasn't some throw-in. The Lions wanted him. He had a market. Around the NFL, golf is regarded well. 25 years old, multiple playoff wins,

beat Breeze and Wilson in their own buildings this post. Beat Breeze and Wilson in their buildings in the post season. That's Peter Schrager from Fox that put that out. It's funny because my first reaction was two ones, a third, and Goff. Man, the Rams have to be thrilled that they took Goff in that contract. They needed them to take Goff. Well, maybe that's what the second future number one was for.

Hey, we'll give you another future number one, but you got to take Goff. But here's more from Schroger, actually. Denver? Whoa. Oh, no, no, no, no. My fault. This is on Stafford. We know this, and we're going to get to all of this,

that Denver, Carolina, Indie, Washington, among the others, making significant offers for Stafford. Look, I watched Goff this year, and he was the problem for the Rams. If they had had better quarterback play this year, the Rams might still be playing. That's how good their defense was. Now, Aaron Donald got hurt in that playoff game against Green Bay, and that really, really hurt their chances.

And I'm not sure with a healthy Aaron Donald, they would have beaten, you know, Aaron Rogers anyway, but it would have been a better game, and they wouldn't have given up, you know, like 500 yards or whatever it was in that game. That's a really, really good defensive team and was all year long the Rams defense, but they didn't have a healthy Aaron Donald in the postseason.

My contention is if Stafford had played for us this year, we would have won nine or ten games, maybe would have won a playoff game. I don't know. If we had had Deshawn Watson, we would have won 10-plus games and we might still be playing. I think Stafford on the Rams team would have given them a real good chance this year of making a long run. A longer run. They already won a playoff game with Gough in Seattle with that defense carrying the load.

And then against Green Bay, you know, Gough wasn't terrible in that game, Cooley, but he wasn't enough to overcome a defense that gave up too much without Aaron Donald being healthy. I think it's personally, I think it's a great move for the Rams. I love the way they think. I think it's a different way of thinking than maybe I would have thought years ago. But they are doing, you've read a lot about George Allen. I know a lot about George Allen's career. George Allen, when he came to Washington, said, The Future is Now.

And he started trading away picks, like basically he was allergic to him to bring in players that could help them win now. That's a different day and age back then. In this day and age, you know what? The Rams have said, whether it's the Ramsey deal or whether it was the golf deal to begin with, the deal that they traded to get to the number one pick, they're going for it. They're like, we can win the Super Bowl next year or in 2022 or in 2023 with much better quarterback play.

And they're going for it. And they're not worrying about those two first round picks down the road. They have to go for it. If you look at the way that teams built, the salary cap issues they're in, the lack of draft picks as it is anyways. They're not in any form of a rebuild mode. Right. You may as well give away the next two years first round picks as well.

Because you don't got anything to really rebuild on. The future is now for Sean in Los Angeles. Do you like the deal? Yeah, I do. I think that they gave away a bunch, but I think that they're talented enough as a team now to win with Matt Stafford. in saying just that yes i like the deal i think that in today's day in today's football a chance to to win a super bowl next year is really valuable i think a chance to win two or three

super bowls in the next three years is even more valuable obviously and i think they get that with stafford the way that that roster's built and the way that team's built and look you and i both know it. In that offense, it doesn't have to be elite elite quarterback play, but it's got to be good, competent quarterback play. And Stafford gives them more than good quarterback play. He gives them, you know, B plus play at a minimum, in my opinion. It might not be an A quarterback, but he's the high end of a B. So let's get to a couple of things on this. Number one, you had the two first rounders. And I understand that maybe that second first rounder was, you know, hey, are you you're really going to take off? Okay, we'll give you a second, first rounder in 20, 23, and whatever.

But you did say this first and third idea is basically, it's not going to be what it is, because there's just going to be too much competition for a quarterback like Stafford. And what I would say to everybody out there that really pushed back on some of the conversations that we've had in recent weeks about Stafford. And look, everybody's entitled to their own opinion. But a lot of you consistently hit me with, do you know what is really? record is she in? I mean, come on. That's not a significant upgrade. And oh, by the way, it's not going to even require a first rounder. Well, the league spoke. Okay, the league spoke on what they think of Matt Stafford. There were a reported six teams that offered and up to 12 that

were interested. Washington basically offered a first and a third. It may have been a first third and even a player. But there's multiple reports that Washington made and was aggressive going after Matt Stafford. What's really interesting to me, the league spoke on Stafford, okay? They just did. I mean, you can think what you want about Matt Stafford. The league thinks he's really good. I personally think he is a top 10 quarterback in the right situation. And I think this is the right situation for him. The one thing, and I always said this about Stafford, is 33 years old, as much as he's been banged up over his career, and he's played hurt so much. That would have been my one concern. The second thing about this deal is Detroit really did Matt Stafford

a solid. Sure. He wanted to go to L.A. Detroit didn't have to trade him to a place where he wanted to go, He had no trade, you know, he didn't have a no trade clause in his contract. There's reporting that he said he did not want to go play for New England. Isn't that amazing? We talked about that on Friday. I think you and I talked about that. Without Tom Brady, just the pure Patriot way, it doesn't bode well with younger players. And to that point, players in their 30s.

I don't know. I read that. Stafford basically said, I've played in the Patriot way the last three. years, I don't want any part of that or two years or whatever it was. That's it. I'm surprised at that. I know you said that. I just think Stafford would have been the, I think it would have been the perfect fit for him. That would have been great for him. That was a hell of a defensive football team last year. And they've got like the fifth or sixth most available cap space in this, going into this offseason. I think he would have been the perfect quarterback

for Josh McDaniels. Perfect quarterback. But anyway, he apparently nicks that deal. Washington, Carolina are the two teams reportedly that made better offers than the Rams made in terms of the immediate. So that means Washington obviously offered their first this year and probably another pick from this year and maybe even a player. Carolinas is the eighth overall. They obviously offered that. And Detroit took two future ones, a third from this year, and Gough's contract. Now, maybe Schrager's right, and they really think they're getting something with Gough. You know, I mean, maybe that was a big positive for them. But I just think it's interesting because one of the things that I didn't think, if you're a new GM like Brad Holmes in Detroit,

I know that Stafford, despite his record, is really revered by Lions. fans. Apparently he and his wife, like Scott's told me this, Scott has gotten to know, Van Pelt has gotten to know Stafford pretty well over the years. He said that he's just one of the best dudes that he's ever dealt with in all of sports. Like he's just a great guy. Do you know him at all? I don't know Matt Stafford. No, not at all. Anyway, I just thought, you know, your new GM, dude, I'm taking the best possible deal. I'm sorry if it ends up putting you in you know, in Houston, you know, or a bad franchise. I'm just not Cincinnati. I'm just, I'm taking the best deal. And I don't know that they took the best deal. It's close. I know.

It's probably close. Washington was first or third and maybe a player. I don't know who the player was. They probably had discussions on multiple players. I think I know who the player was. Who? Duran? No.

First of all, let me just be clear. on this. John Allen's not attractive with a fifth year option only, with one year left on a deal. Okay, John Allen's attractive as a player, but the contract, he's only got one year left. And so you've got to be really sure you can sign him. Plus, I've mentioned this before. Ron Rivera loves John Allen, loves him. He points to him as the guy that represents the culture they want to have. And let's also not forget that John Allen's a really good player. No, I think the conversation we had last week, even though I think coming off an Achilles injury, I don't know how attractive he would be.

But it would not surprise me if Washington tries to move on from Landing Collins this off season. I don't know how attractive he would be. You said he'd be worth a second. And I said a third coming off a kill. I said maybe a second. And you probably are right coming off. And coming off the year he had last year. I actually didn't think he was that bad.

Well, he was. You said he was, but then there were a couple games you're like, he played well. And I, I don't know, I think he's a good player. I'm not saying he's worth the money or that Cameron Curl isn't a much better deal and maybe eventually a better player and maybe the fit isn't right. I just don't know that they view with Cameron Curl emerging the way he did, that they would be really distraught if they ended up moving on from him. I don't think they would be.

So it would have been a first, a third, and landing column. Maybe, or maybe it's just a first, yeah, because it wouldn't be a first second in Collins. And maybe it was just a first and a second or a first and a third. But I did, I heard from somebody that a player was involved. But let's get to the next part of this, which is, Washington took a big swing going after Stafford. That says several things. it says they are not comfortable with their quarterback situation more likely than not, as it's currently constructed. Some of you thought they should be.

And maybe it's just that they loved Stafford. That's a possibility too. It's also probably an indication that at 19 overall in the upcoming draft, there's nothing there that they're really confident about in terms of possible quarterbacks at 19 overall. And again, it could just mean that ultimately Stafford was super attractive to them, which by the way, he should have been. I think that's what it means more than anything. Well, yeah, maybe or it means that they're going to continue to be aggressive.

I mean, I put out this poll earlier this morning, Cooley. Hold on for a second. Let me find it. How should Washington proceed now? Now that they've essentially admitted through their offer to Detroit for Stafford that they are looking to upgrade at quarterback. And I put out four options. Massive offer for Watson,

some sort of darn old or other veteran free agent or trade, address it through the draft or stick with Alan Heineke and Alex. The funny thing about this is 40.6% now said, make a massive offer for Watson. That was the winner, followed by Darnold, followed by the draft, followed by Alan Heineke and Alex. And the other day when I did this poll coolly about should Washington take a huge swing on Watson, and I said, call it three first rounders, a second rounder in Duran Payne, 58 and a half percent of the 5,000-plus votes said no. So, now maybe a lot of those people are saying we want Stafford instead. And a lot of those people did say that.

But let me just tell you, there's a big difference between Watson and Stafford. Like if you tell me I've got to give up a lot more to get Watson versus a lot less to get Stafford, which is now off the table, I'm taking Watson. Do you people understand how good he is? He's a top five elite quarterback. Now they're saying two first, two seconds, and two young defensive stars. Well, that could mean the Jets.

They've got some defensive stars. Quinn and Williams is an up-and-coming defensive star. Miami's got some defensive stars. It could also mean Washington. Tell me what you think this means for Watson, the Stafford deal for Watson, and just your overall thoughts right now on whether or not they should go all in.

Now that you know they were willing to go big on Stafford, do you think that they should and will go big in on Watson, if Watson's actually made available? Well, yeah, I think that they should go big. I don't know if they're capable of going big enough. They don't have the current draft assets that someone like the Jets have. So look, like giving away, they don't have a quarterback to give them right now, which the Jets and the dolphins both do,

two teams that would potentially be making this trade. They don't have the high first rounder this year, which both the Jets and the dolphins do in terms of making this trade. They don't have as much as Carolina has at this point in terms of making the trade with the eighth overall. So when you talk about going big, it's like you're going deep into the bench to take that big swing. Like you're going to give this year's first, next year's first.

Then what do you have? Then this year's second, next year's second, and Duran Payne and Montes Webb. So you're going to give away two of your last two first to get there. Well, you're going to give away a boatload to get there where in that boatload, I think two of two of the assets are really proven. commodities. That's the problem. Like, the Jets have the number two overall pick. The Jags, if they wanted to do it, have the number

one overall pick. Well, plus, well, the Jets have a second first round pick too this year. Right now. Yeah. Right. And so do the dolphins, right? And the Jets and the dolphins both have two first round picks. And they've got some defensive talent. Quinn and Williams looks like a star in the making. Now, do, like, when, so the report, look, look, just, just stop. If, if you're sitting there telling me, the Jets have given me this year's first, the second first that they have this year's first, Quinn and Williams, this year's second, and next year's second, you can't match that. I understand that. If you're Washington. Well, you could. Because. With what? Well, with Chase Young, because there's not a,

There's not a defense. Quinn and Williams is not Chase Young. Chase Young, you are trading basically the number two pick in the first round, and then you would also be trading. Like, to me, Chase Young equals, now Quinn and Williams was a high pick too. But look, I'm just going to tell you this. There's no player on my roster that would be untouchable for Sean Watson. Now, I'm not dealing two, two, and then two if one of the two is Chase Young.

Like, at that point, it's getting to the point where it's obscene, which it's probably going to be obscene. And I keep coming back to this same thought, Cooley. Houston would be absolutely idiotic to do this. Like, think about the AFC here for a moment. So they're going to trade one of the five best quarterbacks in the NFL at 25 years old. and then in their conference alone, they then think they can replace Deshaun Watson to compete with Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, maybe Deshawn Watson to an AFC team if they trade him to an AFC team. I haven't even mentioned Justin Herbert or maybe Trevor Lawrence. If Houston trades Deshawn Watson, they won't win a Super Bowl for 10 plus years.

They won't be in a Super Bowl for 10 plus years. goal is to try to get to the Super Bowl, at least. This would be the dumbest trade. I don't care what you get back for it ever. Look, some of you are like, Sheehan, get off Watson's jock. I'm not. He's one of the five or six best quarterbacks in the game. He's a known elite quarterback. Your chance of hitting, somebody said, well, this shit never works. Well, this shit's never been tried. Nobody of his stature at 25 years old under contract for the next five years has ever been made available. This is totally unique. This isn't something that's been tried before. Somebody like Deshawn Watson under contract for five years at 25 years old has never been made available

if he is being made available. So you have to just take anything that's ever happened before this and throw that out. Those conversations about quarterbacks in their 30s, they're not applicable. The Alex Smith deal isn't applicable. Any trade-up to draft a quarterback isn't, it's just not apples to apples. There is no apples to apples for Deshawn Watson's availability, ever.

So if you don't like the player, that's one thing. I love the player. I think the player is immediately with a decent team, not even a great team around them, that you're going to win 9, 10 games and you're going to be in the postseason 8 out of 10 years of the next 10 years. And you're going to have a chance in a couple of those to actually make a deep run and maybe win a Super Bowl if he's your quarterback. I can't say that about Taylor Heineke and upgrading the defense and adding a middle linebacker in another corner and another really good receiver. I cannot say the same thing. I can say I really like what they're doing,

and hopefully they'll hit on the quarterback, hopefully, but I can't say definitely that they will be a 10-plus win team for eight out of the next 10 years, and they'll be in the post-season for eight out of the next 10 years. That's what happens if Deshawn Watson is your quarterback. And by the way, you've got a franchise that isn't a train wreck like Houston was this year, or Cooley like Washington's been in years past. That's always under consideration too.

Like it could completely fall apart if, you know, the owner fucks everything up like he's done many times in the past. But Watson's a different conversation than any other player we can talk about. I think you make the trade. I think you make the trade if it's three first. To your point, you don't know you're going to get a quarterback one of the next three years, especially if you think you're drafting middle. of the pack.

If you're drafting middle of the pack, you're probably not getting Watson. You don't know that you're getting a quarterback if you have the number one. How many guys really? What's the percentage on mid-20s quarterbacks? It doesn't, the percentage on top 10 isn't very good. Rogers. The point. I mean, it's better in the top 10.

It's better. The thing doesn't have that everybody else has is a quarterback to offer. Would you say? Say that again? The thing that Washington doesn't have is an immediate answer at quarterback. Do you think Tua Tunga Vailo is an immediate answer quarterback for Houston? Yeah. You do? I do. I don't know if that's the long-term answer, but it's a high pick that we can find out on.

Sam Darnold, to me, is at this point, I don't know what to think of Tua. I guess I just saw that at the end of the year, the bottom line is that. they couldn't move the ball unless Ryan Fitzpatrick was in the game. But that's his rookie year. They had a couple games where two had a couple decent games. He had to get yanked from that Oakland game where the Vegas game, Raiders game, for Miami to keep their playoff hopes alive. We know that.

And then Fitzpatrick didn't play in that final game, and they got run out of the building by Buffalo because Fitzpatrick had COVID, remember? I mean, you know, it was ugly. Miami needed to win that game to get into the postseason, and they played Buffalo, who was really not playing for anything, and they got completely smoked in that game, and Tua threw like three or four picks in the game. I don't know if they would have won the game with Fitzpatrick, but Fitzpatrick gave Miami a better chance this year than Tua did. But it was also his rookie year. I think the one thing you learned about Tua is that the hip wasn't an issue, and that was a big concern. So what if Houston said, look, we want Chase Young.

We'll take Chase Young and Landon Collins. Okay. I'm not going to make it Chase Young in Dron Payne. Chase Young, Landing Collins. We need two seconds. You know, we need your second this year and your second in 22. And we need your first this year and your first in 22. Two-ones, two-two's, young and Collins.

Would you do it? I'm just, I don't know. What do you mean? You don't know. I'm going so, I'm actually, I'm sitting here going through this, all the proposed trades that the ESPN put together. Barnwell created all the trade. I know that. That was last week, though.

I know that, but I'm just looking at this. And it's like, it is going to have to be that. Oh, it's going to be obscene. This is going to be another one of those where people who have poo-pooed these conversations that you and I have had or I've had on radio are going to say, oh, my fucking God. And they'll say they overpaid. And you know what? If he gets hurt and has, you know, because he's had some injuries.

You know, if he gets hurt and he's always hurt and it doesn't work out, well, you'll be right about it. But the league will speak on Deshawn Watson, too, if the Texans. trade him. It'll be the most ever offered for a player. It will make the Herschel Walker deal pale in comparison because this has never, ever been made available, ever. You just have never, I mean, somebody. And saying all of it, I just don't think they trade him. I don't either. I don't either. I'm with you on that. I'm totally with you on that. I would call him in right now and say, guy. Yeah, come on, dude. Even if we trade you, we got to take a cap for the next four years because of the guaranteed money we paid you.

More than that, I mean, that's why, but that's also why you have to get a quarterback back. You got to get at least a dude that you can play. It's got value. Hey, Deshaun, you're just not in a situation that makes you tradable. take out of the equation that we think you're the best quarterback in the NFL, which you have to say to him, we can't trade you. It kills us. I know.

We'd be idiots to do it. Total idiots. There just wouldn't be, again, like, look at the AFC. It's Mahomes. It's Josh Allen. It's Lamar Jackson. It is Justin Herbert, who we think is going to be pretty good. We don't know what Trevor Lawrence is going to be in Jacksonville.

And then, God forbid, they trade him to the Jets or the Dolphins because the Jets or the dolphins give you the most package. Now we've got to compete with you. Like, how are we ever going to get to a Super Bowl if Mahomes, Alan, Watson, Jackson, Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence are all in the AFC. Like, we can't do this to ourselves. It means we have no chance for the next decade. You on our team give us a chance.

We can build around you and have a chance. You know, let's not forget, the Chiefs last year in that playoff game against Houston, Deshawn Watson led them to a 24-0 lead at. Arrowhead. They were on fire. Watson threw for 388, two touchdowns in that game, and it was 24-0. Wasn't it 24-0-0? I'm pulling up the box score from that game. 24-0-0. First drive, Watson right down the field, six-place 75 yards, 54-yard touchdown pass to Kenny Stills. Then they got, oh, they had a block punt. Okay, they had a block punt for a touchdown. And then there was another turnover. Watson

through a touchdown pass, then Watson drove him into field goal range, 24 Zip. And then Mahomes, the actual best quarterback in the AFC, exploded. That was unbelievable. That game was incredible. They scored 41 points in about a quarter and a half. I asked somebody this question on radio this morning, I'm going to ask you, if Mahomes were on Houston this year and Watson were on Kansas City this year, with the results be any different for either team? I don't think the results would be dynamically different for Kansas City. Right.

So what about it? Holmes is without question a better quarterback than Deshaun Watson. Okay. I agree. I agree with that. I agree with that. Look, and I'll go, I'll be honest with you, I didn't spend a lot of time watching Deshaun Watson in Houston this year.

Well, why would you? I spent a lot of time watching Mahomes over the last few years. I did spend time watching Watson last year. a year ago. And there are situations that you don't necessarily want him in, but then he's also able to overcome. He's 50-50 in a big-time situation or a third and seven situation, third and eight, third and nine situation,

where Mahomes is way, way higher percentage in terms of getting the job done. Yeah. I'm with you on that. I think that there's definitely more to Mahomes in terms of he's, he's there. He is completely there. You got everything. Right. I think Watson is eight or nine out of ten of what Mahomes is, if that makes any sense.

I mean, if Mojones is in a class. Watson's got a big time arm. Watson's progression and get through the process is not anywhere near what Mahomes is. If Mahomes and Rogers, let's just say, are in a category by themselves, Watson is in the next group with Russell Wilson, with Josh Allen, who's obviously coming on. I'm cutting the old guys out. I'm cutting the Brady and Breeze and whatever else. I'm cutting the old people out of this conversation. The next group, which puts him in the top five, includes Watson, Wilson. And I do think Josh Allen has approached that level.

I mean, Watson threw for more yards than anybody in the league this year. His completion percentage was, I think, third in the league. I think he had the high, did he have the highest passer rating this year? He might have, but here's the one thing that you think about with Watson. Takes a lot of sacks. 2018 led the league in sacks, 65 sacks. In the same way Wilson does, because he's always trying to make a play. It's the same thing.

But there's a difference because Sean Watson, and can see a checkdown. Right. 2019, led the league with 55 sacks. 2020. Third in the league with 49 sacks. I would like to see that number going down, and it's not. Which is telling me that he doesn't have answers in timing.

When you watch him, I think the answer is he's just always trying to make the big play. And that the matured. understand that, but I'll tell you this right now that I watch a young quarterback in Josh Allen trying to make the big play against Kansas City play like shit. I know. Well, they're young quarterbacks. And that's why Mahomes is so special, it doesn't have to be the big play. No.

He'll make the play that's available, but he's capable of making the big play. Yeah. And that's the thing that scares me. The other part of that is you mentioned, what if you make this massive trade and then he's hurt two out of the next three years? But a guy that takes 50 sacks a year is much more likely to be hurt than a guy that takes 23 like Mahomes. Look. You know what I'm saying?

Or a guy that, like Philip Rivers, they have the best offensive line probably in the league, took 19. Tom Brady took 26 sacks. Tom Brady can't move. He took 26 sacks. Really good offensive line and a really good pass pro offensive line. And a really good quarterback at getting the ball out in time. Understood. Understood.

I mean, I've watched a lot of Watson. and to me it's the same thing you see with Wilson. And by the way, with Allen too, and I don't even know what Alan sacks, but God, remember when we talked about the other day and it's true, like Alan takes some of the worst yardage sacks I've ever seen in terms of yardage lost. But Watson's always trying to make a play. And with maturity, and, you know, he just played his third full season because he got injured that rookie year when he got off to a great start by.

the way, if you recall, as a rookie. And, you know, you get really good coaching, and maybe he's able to reduce those numbers of sacks. But yeah, you're right. That's true. It's true. It's just one thing that concerns me. He's not Mahomes or Rogers.

An organization would say in the right situation with the right staff and the right people around him, then he wouldn't have to take those sacks. I'd give him DeAndre Hopkins back, and that's going to be a different situation. But ultimately, Kev, Deshaun Watson's going to take over 40 sacks next year. 40 would be a good number for him, the way he's played. That's a little concerning. Yeah, but you still agree.

You'd be insane to trade him. And my personal feeling is, I'd rather take the next 10 years with Deshawn Watson and without a couple of young defensive stars and take my chances that way. I think we are just into a different conversation in 2021. You've got to have one of these guys to have sustained success. And the tweet that I was looking for I just found, this was a response to this poll.

Somebody said, look, if you're competent at your job as a GM, you should be able to find a competent in even a franchise quarterback somewhere through the draft or at a cheaper price than three first rounders and more. We're not talking about competent, you know, because competent can be found and good GMs can find competent. You know what the best GMs and really good GMs often aren't able to find is a true elite quarterback? I mean, there are only six or seven of them in the game.

They're more than just six or seven good GMs. This is the hardest thing to find, and it's the thing that's the thing that's. if you find it, you are most likely to have a run of being good every year. Like having a chance to be good every year, like Green Bay's been, like Seattle's been, you know, like Kansas City is on the verge of being, well, they've already become. Like I think Buffalo is on the verge of becoming. You know, you don't have five, six, seven, eight year runs of being in the playoffs, 80% of the time, you know, with just a.

great defense and average quarterback play. You don't. You can make a run in a given year, but then you might miss the playoffs for the next three years. The good GMs, and when I think about this,

should be able, look, everyone wants to find the elite quarterback, but the best GMs should be able to know who not to take. You can't miss bad. You can't draft Dwayne Askins in first round.

You have to know, I can't take this guy here. I know we need a quarterback. I can't take this guy here. Yep. And that's the debate with, let's say, Daniel Jones. You have to have a franchise quarterback. We both agree on that. I didn't think Daniel Jones should have been taken to anywhere before number 20.

Well, most people didn't. Yeah, but you at least thought he was more of a first round guy than Haskins, which you did. I didn't think he was going to bust. Yeah. I'm not suggesting that I knew Dwayne was going to bust, but Dwayne needed time in a better situation. Yeah. You can't make that pick there. You got to build your team elsewhere if that's not something that you trust.

You can't have the bust. And I think that's what the best GMs do. Look, right now, I am pleased that Ron and Martin and Marty understand that they aren't just okay at quarterback. Like we can't just roll back with, I'm not saying that they won't because they may not have a choice, but I'm glad to know that they were aggressive going after Matt Stafford. That makes me feel even more confident in Rivera and the group that he's putting around him. because I know that a lot of you really are great believers in Taylor Heineke, and he played great in that playoff game. He did.

But to me, the chances are probably greater that he's not your elite franchise quarterback than he is. That's what I, if I were forced to wager on him, being an elite quarterback, franchise quarterback or not, I'd probably, you know, I'd probably bet on him not being. that. The opportunity on a guy like Watson just never becomes available, you know, to actually trade for someone who is that, and you know he is that. But I personally don't think it's going to happen. And then if it does, it's probably going to be to a team that has much more draft capital, etc. But if they were involved in that, I would be thrilled to know that they were aggressive going after that as well. It leaves you with this. you know, who's going to be available, who's going to be out there, you know, who are the

quarterbacks and there could be a bunch of them that are going to be out there and available. I mean, it's very possible that Darnal could be available because they decide they're going to take the kid from BYU or Justin Fields or somebody else. You know, it's possible that New Orleans can't afford James Winston. You know, there are going to be other, I don't think Matt Ryan's going to get traded because Matt Ryan, Atlanta would really have a big-time cap. hit that they can't afford trading Matt Ryan. Dak Prescott, I think we have to assume he stays in Dallas.

I think we have to assume that Aaron Rogers stays in Green Bay. I think we have to assume now that Carson Wentz stays in Philadelphia. I don't want Garapolo. In fact, there's a story this morning that San Francisco is getting aggressive going after Kirk Cousins. I don't think Minnesota is going to trade Kirk, to be honest with you. I mean, if you watched him play this year and watched the way Zimmer sort of came around on Kirk's season. He was not their problem. Their defense was. I'd be surprised if

Minnesota trades Kirk, but there is a story going around that Shanahan wants Kirk, which, of course, we've known for a while. I don't want Trubisky-Cooley. I don't want Fitzpatrick at this point at his age. You know, Goff is already accounted for, and I wouldn't have wanted him. It's a guy like Darnold. You know, if it's not Watson, would they get aggressive on Darnold if Darnold was made available? Or, because I don't think Cam Newton's a possibility. Do you? No. Okay. Oh, I think he's a possibility. I don't think he's an answer.

Well, then why do you think he's a possibility? Haven't you come around distrusting Rivera and to make the right decision or no? Never. Okay. I think the chances of Cam Newton being in Washington are zero percent. If you watched him play last year, he stunk. He looked done. I don't even know how interested he is in playing football.

What I heard is he's not. But that said, he went to New England to play football. Seems hard to be uninterested and go to a place where it's only ball. Yeah. It's almost remarkable that he started Cam Newton the entire year pretty much. It is. It tells you a lot about how they feel about Stidim. I guess.

Which means they're definitely in the market for a quarterback. Yeah. And I think that they would be incredibly interested in Watson because the future is now for Pellichick. Yeah. I mean, he's going to want to win games right. right now. But Belichick's also sitting there saying someone's given up a quarterback for this guy. Someone is. You know, if maybe they can trade with Houston for a guy like Donald after the fact. What is? Because Houston, Houston is going to acquire some, a dude. They're going to acquire picks and a dude.

And maybe they want to move forward with somebody else, not named Donald or not named Tua, but that gives them a chance to gain more capital in trading for those guys like let's just say the dolphins have to throw in toa what are you going to get for two right now another first probably yeah i guess i mean you probably you get a you're definitely getting a second for darnald um if not a first so a lot i'm just sitting here so many people are tweeting me about cousins i guess somebody had a report that shanahan's going hard after Cousins. San Francisco apparently was very interested in Stafford, too. I want to just begin with this because, you know, whether it's social media or, you know, any other way that we've communicated with each other over the years about Kirk Cousins, what you guys think isn't necessarily what the league thinks and it's not real. Okay, Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVey likes Matt Stafford.

Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVeigh, both love Kirk cousins. You know, when you have people of that quality offensively, that pretty much says much more than what you and I as fans can say. Cooley can say more to it. But I bring it up because, first of all, I don't think it'll happen. I followed the Zimmer situation. He killed it this year. Kirk did. He had a phenomenal year this year.

they just need to improve defensively. If they had had just a suck defense instead of horrific, they probably would have been in the postseason. But if they did, for whatever reason, trade Kirk to San Francisco, would you be interested in Garoppolo? I wouldn't be. No. You know who might be?

Patriots. Exactly. Exactly. I think the Patriots would be. think Belichick loves Garoplo. Yeah. But I think Belichick loves Kirk Cousins. I don't know. Remember the training camp, what, five years ago that they came up to Richmond

and they spent the week and Belichick was glowing about cousins? Yeah. Well, I mean, there was that moment when Kirk became a free agent where there was discussion about whether or not New England. But, you know, obviously Brady wasn't anywhere near done. if I was Zimmer, I would at least be making some calls here. I don't know. If I was Sam, if I was John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan,

I might be making some calls to some other teams to say, what would you give for cousins? Because like right now, if you're the only team, if you're San Francisco and you're the only team, you've got to give a lot for cousins. They might want somebody else like New England. to call in an offer, hey, we'll give you a first this year for Cousins, a first plus. Since becoming a...

So you don't have to give two first. Like, Cousins is going to get... You and I have done this. We think Cousins is one or two quarterbacks below Stafford. Yeah, but that's it. So Cousins is essentially going to be very close to the Stafford deal. Not as much, but close. Cousins since 2015, all right.

Fourth in yards, fifth in touchdowns, 12th in interception percentage, sixth in yards attempt. By the way, fifth overall in wins. People don't believe that, but it's true. Game winning drives sixth overall in the league since 2015. Look, the league knows. I don't think that Spielman and Zimmer are going to trade cousins.

I would be starting, I would be very surprised at that, Cooley. There was nothing, except for what Everson Griffin said after the season. They were at times unstoppable offensively this year. They just had a terrible defense, a terrible kicker, and terrible special teams. But man, the, here's Neil Greenberg from the Post. you know, Mr. Analytics. Quarterbacks with more expected points added per start than cousins since 2015. Here's the list.

Breeze, Watson, Ryan, Brady, Rogers, Rathlisberger, Wilson, Rivers, Prescott, Stafford. That's it. Essentially, you know, what did I just name? Nine quarterbacks. Nine quarterbacks that have that, you know, expected points added per start. You know, it's sort of a value-added. I don't like doing this because I'm just going to hear from everybody in Twitter. He's a good quarterback guys.

He's not an elite quarterback. I would have taken Stafford over him. Obviously, I would want Watson more, but I certainly wouldn't want Jimmy Garoppolo more than Kirk Cousins. I wouldn't want Jared Gough more than Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cousins' season this year puts him in the top half of the league easily of starting quarterbacks, probably closer to the top 12 in starting quarterbacks the year he had this year.

But whatever, we can debate that. He's not coming to Washington. Where is he? If he's being made available, that would be the all-time. Kyle loves him. Mike loves him. Sean loves him. I'd be surprised.

I think Minnesota really likes him, too. They lost Gary Kubiak. He's going to be on his fourth offensive coordinator in his fourth year. in Minnesota coming up, which will be strange. But Kubiak was great. But I think it's going to be his son, Clint Kubiak, that ends up being the O.C. So they'll do the exact same stuff that Gary did. Anyway, are we done with this part of the conversation?

We're done. Bottom line is, I would trade a lot for Deshawn Watson. I don't know. Two first, two seconds, two. I just, I wouldn't want Chase Young or Duran Payne to be involved. If pain were the one and you could get away with Lannin Collins as the other, yeah. What about one first, one second, one first two seconds in Young? See, Young is going to be.

I don't think, I don't think that'll get it done though. Young's going to be valued at a level that I think is the, almost the equivalent of two firsts. That's a great point. but I don't think I'm trading young. Well, for Watson, I wouldn't have anybody as an untouchable, but I can tell you this. Young is going to be in the top three rush players in the league, who plays every part of the game. Yep. Who is not going to cost you that much for the next four years.

Right. No, I'm not trading Chase Young. Okay. They're on. They're on pain. We've got to start working on a contract. One first, one first two-toes in charge. Chase Young for Deshawn Watson right now.

Yes or no? Yeah. Yeah, me too. And what I did there is I basically just took the other two first, or basically I took the other first and said that that's the equivalent of Chase Young and a second defensive player. Right. And that's, and you're saying the first this year. And what Houston apparently reportedly is looking for.

The first is the 19th overall. Yeah. Houston apparently is looking for two first, two seconds, and two young defensive stars. So if I give them one first, two seconds in Chase Young, then I am giving them one less first and one less player because I'm offering Chase Young. So would I do it? Yeah, I think I would definitely do that.

Would I do two first, two seconds, Chase Young and a player? No, I don't think I would do that. That's too much because Chase Young's got to be valued at higher. And it may not get the deal done. I don't know. The other aspect of this is just, would Deshaun? Watson come to Washington. Well, good point.

He's got to agree to that. He's got a no trade clause. There are teams out there that he can go and have success with immediately because they're built offensively. And maybe Watson wouldn't come to Washington unless Chase Young were staying. Maybe he wouldn't approve. I don't know if that's true or not. Why not?

You're looking at a defense. It's going to be great. He just played on one of the worst defenses in the league this year. they were so bad defensively. They were horrendous defensively. And I mean, I think he understands at this point that he can, you know, they can go to the playoffs again like they did the two previous years, but not if they've got the worst defense in the league.

No, not if they have the worst defense in the league. Although Patrick Mahomes took the Chiefs to the Super Bowl or to the NFC championship a couple years ago with one of the worst defenses. Yeah, it was bad two years ago. that's true. But if he would want to go somewhere with weapons, like I saw one potential trade with Pittsburgh, where it was like two firsts and T.J. Watt.

Pittsburgh would be awesome for a quarterback. Look at all those young receivers. Remember this, too. Everybody wants Washington to use either draft choice or their available cap space on a receiver like Alan Robinson or Kenny Goliday. I'll just take the two of them right now. you know, those guys are going to have options where they can go somewhere where there's a legit quarterback.

If you bring in Deshawn Watson, now all of a sudden you are so much more attractive to free agents. Sure. Because just because you want Alan Robinson, I don't know if he's coming here. Does Alan Robinson want to go play somewhere where he's got Foles and Trubinsky or, I don't know, Heinecke and whoever? No. Alan Robinson wants to go somewhere where he knows it. It's not going to be an abundance of work. It's not going to be an onus on him to catch 80 balls.

What's a guy that can get him in the ball? Yeah. Period. Fascinating offseason as it relates to quarterbacks. I mean, so interesting. Just starting with already this blockbuster trade for Stafford, another one could be the all-time blockbuster trade for Deshaun Watson. The Aaron Rogers situation, I can't see him leaving Green Bay.

You know, Prescott does Dallas research? sign him. Darnold, is he available because the Jets go in another direction? All the quarterbacks that are moving into the top 10 to 12 picks in the draft, Wents in the Philadelphia situation, Newton, I don't even count him, Winston in New Orleans, you know, there's just a lot of stuff. It's really, really quite the quarterback off season. And part of what makes it is the quarterbacks available, yes, but there are so many teams this year that feel like, And I think Washington isn't at the top of that list. I think more or less the Rams were, the 49ers are,

that there are teams that think that they are just a quarterback away from potentially winning the Super Bowl next year, which is why it's going to get super competitive. I mean, it's really, the Rams were a quarterback away from maybe still playing right now. I mean, the 49ers had so many injuries, but even if they didn't have the injuries, they were a quarterback away from winning the Super Bowl last year. You know, they're just a lot of those teams. You know, I bet a team like New Orleans now feels with that defense and with Alvin Kamara and others, they just are a quarterback away.

The problem is they don't have any cap space. You know, the bears were so good defensively this year. And they were talent. They had talent on offense. The Cowboys, you know, again, if they re-signed DAC prosecutors, Prescott, which I'm going to assume they're going to. They're a top five roster. They're going to be the preseason favorite in the NFC East, not Washington unless Washington does something a quarterback. I'm not saying that Washington can't win a second

straight NFC East title with an improved defense and a well-coached team, the whole thing. I'm just telling you that if Prescott resigns with the Cowboys, the Cowboys are going to be the preseason NFC East favorites. Unless Deshaun Watson comes to Washington. Well, unless Washington solves the quarterback issue, right. Or Philly. All right, let's take a break. I want to read a couple of comments from Jay Gruden. We'll talk about Kyle Smith, and I do want to touch on the Wizards games,

the Wizards Crazy game last night right after this word from one of our sponsors. Kyle Smith, coolly officially in Atlanta, working for Terry Fontno as the vice president of player personnel there. Nikki Javala, who writes for the Washington Post, is the Beat reporter. She does a really good job, actually. I'm covering Washington. She had some quotes in there about Kyle Smith from Mike Shanahan and from Jay Gruden.

Did you see these or not? I did. So this is from Jay Gruden. Quote, every year that I was there, we had a pretty good draft class with a couple of exceptions. Smith, Kyle Smith, was really good about listening to the coaches because the coaches also did evaluations. When it came to our time to pick, we'd always talk about the picks, where we'd like to go, what happens if a player is gone and did all of our scenarios. All of our scenarios.

And then owner Daniel Snyder would come in off his yacht and make the pick. Close quote. I'm just curious. We know that that happened with Dwayne Haskins. Okay. That's not in debate. Like, I don't think it happened with, say, Josh Doxon. You know, I don't think he came in off his yacht and made every first round pick, you know, in recent years.

I mean, I'm not saying that he wasn't involved in a lot of different things. But it's really the Haskins thing that Jay's referring to, right? I guess. Who else would it be? I mean, he's not coming in off his yacht. I think maybe Ryan Anderson. Okay. No, I heard that Jonathan Allen was asked and I just heard some rumors that that was, that might have been a damn pick, but I don't know that.

Wait, hold on for a second. Are you being serious? Yeah, I think Ryan Anderson might have been a Snyder pick. He just wanted another Alabama guy. Because John told him to pick him? Now, that was way hearsay. That's not anything I would know. But I don't know.

Who else would it be? Well, like, I mean, you know, remember for a brief... Why can you just take the fifth rounder of every year? be like, dude, your job is to find us the best fifth rounder. But if Rivera goes to Dan and says, Dan, our sixth rounder, this is your pick. I want you to make our sixth round pick. Not our first sixth round pick, our second sixth round pick. This is your pick.

Hey, Dan, any third round comp picks we get, you go ahead and you go ahead and make those. We're going to give you, yeah, we'll show you the board and then you make the pick. Just throw a darn at it No, you know, the John Allen pick, I could see that And we know how quickly Bruce and Dan became infatuated with, you know, the Alabama movement But there's no way that he came off his yacht and picked Josh Doxon Only Sheehan picked Josh Doxon She came in off his rowboats

We kind of heard that story. Really? Are you being serious or not? I can't tell if you're being serious right now. The Doxon pick, I think we heard the story. Oh, yeah. Well, McLuhan told me the story. That McLuhan wanted the center from Alabama. Yeah.

When he fell off, what are we going to do? And I had heard McClune said, one thing we're not going to do is take a receiver with the first pick. Then he panicked and took Josh Doxon. Well, he traded with Houston back a spot, remember? Because Houston wanted Will Fuller. And he was fine with either Fuller or Doxon at that point. But what I had heard was he didn't want a receiver at that spot. No, he wanted Ryan Kelly.

That was the guy that he wanted desperately. He told me that. They should have traded up two spots and got Ryan Kelly. Was it two spots? It was more than that. It wasn't much more than that. I think Kelly went at 19 and they picked it 21. I'm going to look at it.

I'm pretty sure it was really close to right before. 2016 NFL draft. Ryan Kelly went 18 and Washington had 21 initially. So there were three spots. off. And then they traded back one spot with Houston, which was smart because, well, what actually turned out not to be smart because Fuller's a better pro than Doxon, obviously. But McLuhan said, we liked both of the receivers. After we didn't get Kelly, we liked both of the receivers. And I picked up an extra pick to move one spot. And I was okay with either

Fuller or Doxon, whoever fell to us. That's what he told me. But they wanted Kelly. That's who they wanted. And Kelly's turned into a really good player. Yeah. They didn't, I mean, the other thing is, is where else were you going to go at that point? Followed the rest of that draft. I mean, LaQuan Treadwell went next. I know that. Oh, yeah, there was a shit, it was a disaster, Cory Coleman. It was a disastrous wide receiver draft. And then, Artie Burns was in Pittsburgh. Until Michael Thomas went in the second round. right i mean

hunter henry went hunter henry was a good player that went in the early second miles jack remember he fell and went to jacksonville he was heard he was hurt yeah uh geez you go down like regland mid second to buffalo derrick henry went

45th overall that year coolly that was the other player that i wanted after dockson I wanted Derek Henry. And Michael Thomas went two picks later. I know. To New Orleans. God, did I love Doxon at TCU when they made that pick? I was so excited.

So anyway. Can you imagine, like, if they did just take a Michael Thomas or Derek Henry right? God, you know what's also interesting? I'm just remembering this. I remember, and I don't want to, this isn't meant to disparage Josh at all. But I'll never forget you telling me very early. in that rookie season of his. It ain't going to work.

It's just not going to work. And I said, why? He's talented. He does not like football. He just doesn't love football enough. This is part of the due diligence process. You got to find this out. You got to find this out.

Remember we were sitting there at training camp in Richmond, and he was hurt going into training camp, and we were watching him do his rehab stuff on the field. It was like, I've never seen somebody so disdiscount. interested and so unhappy about being out on a football field. He was homesick, too. There was a lot of that discussion about he had really never lived outside of, you know, Texas. And he...

Right, we'd looked into. He went to Wyoming. Briefly and came home because he was homesick. And went home because he was homesick at Wyoming. Yeah. He was a very, he was super shy. He was talented, though, Cooley. But you always, you've always said that, you know, it's the,

it's the research, it's the due diligence, it's like you, the interview process where you find out if a guy really loves football and if he doesn't, it doesn't matter how talented he is, you would never draft him. Anyway, so the other thing that was said in this story about Kyle Smith came from Mike Shanahan. And that was the following quote. Where is that one? Here it is. Mike Shanahan. about Kyle Smith. You could see at a very young age that Kyle left no stone unturned relative to evaluating somebody both on and off the field. He was one of the best I had been around. People would always ask me about Kyle and I'd say there's no way they would ever let him out of the building and if they do their complete idiots. Closed quote. So that's from Mike about Kyle Smith knowing this is this is I think a recent interview with Mike so Mike knew that they

we're going to let him out of the building. So he's essentially saying if you let him out of the building, you're a complete idiot. So there you go. He's in Atlanta. Good spot for him or not. Great spot for him. Better job, more money.

That's a spot for him. That's awesome. Good for him. I mean, it's basically, and I don't, honestly, I don't fault Ron for this. You're creating whatever you want to create. Right. But anybody that shook hands with Bruce Allen, see you later. Yeah, no, you said that.

You said that. They fired Jeff Scott, too, who I thought was a good scout. Right. Do you know what? They also fired Cole, someone whose dad was, a Bruce agent was his dad, or Bruce, Bruce Allen was his dad's agent. It was Cole Spencer. Yeah.

They fired Cole Spencer as well. I mean, you were with, you were with Bruce. You can see your way out of the bill. Yeah. By the way, just unrelated, really, but just somebody else that you've always loved and you said that you would play for in a heartbeat and, you know, in moving back to the Rams conversation, you know what I didn't realize until this morning when I was looking through the Rams roster. I didn't realize that Rahim Morris was the defensive coordinator that they hired Rahim Morris to be the DC. Did you? I knew. I didn't see that for whatever reason. So O'Connell's still there as the offensive coordinator. And now Sean has Rahim Morris as the defensive coordinator for that defense, which is now. Rahim was as close to Sean in Washington as anybody.

Yeah. I mean, they, Rahim was a sounding board for Sean at all times. That's a great fit for both of those dudes. Right. You know, I think the world of Rahim Morris. I think he'd be a great head coach. Right. I mean, he had a chance in Tampa, but he's come a long way since then.

And obviously, he was the interim in Atlanta. Well, not only was the interim in Atlanta here at the end of the year, they won some games. Didn't they win some games at the end of the year? Or maybe they didn't. They were in almost every game. Every game they were in. Including the game, they almost beat the chiefs at Arrowhead.

Okay. I want to finish up with just, I promise, no more than three minutes on the end of the Wizards game last night. We'll do that right after this word from one of our sponsors. So coolly, last night, the Wizards played the Nets. All right. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and tell you that I watch the whole game. I've not been really that interested in the Wizards. They suck.

You know, I was interested initially when they traded for John for Russell Westbrook, who's always been one of my favorite players, but they're terrible, and they're one of the worst defensive teams in the league. And they played the Brooklyn Nets, who now have Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, and now James Hardin. Hardin was out last night for some reason, but he was out last night. And the Nets have been rolling, and the Wizards just stink, and they had a bunch of COVID-19 issues, etc. Anyway, so last night's game was insane. It was one of the... one of the more entertaining finishes of the season in the NBA. First of all, typical of the Wizards.

I mean, they basically give up 70 and a half every game. The final score of the game was 149 to 146. This was not an overtime game or a double overtime game. The Wizards over under, Cooley, over under numbers in Vegas are like pretty much the highest. Last night's game, the over under total in the game last night, was 244. and a half. Just to give you some perspective, the next closest on the NBA card yesterday was 221. Okay, so the over-under for Brooklyn, Washington yesterday was 23 and a half points higher than the next closest on the board. They just, they stink defensively. They're horrible

defensively. And, you know, basically these games, you know, they give, they just, it's so easy to score against him. Anyway, the game last night was insane because Brooklyn had, you know, a decent size lead, then the Wizards fight back. By the way, Bradley Beal had another big night at 37. Bradley Beal, Cooley, you probably don't know this because you're not paying attention to the NBA. He leads the league in scoring. He's averaging 34.9 points per game. It's four points better than Kevin Durant. And at one point last night, he had like 13 points and they were well into the second half when I turned it on. He ended up with 37. He scored 22 in the fourth quarter. Anyway, the end of this game, Cooley, first of all, I'm going to give Stanford Steve some credit for this

because Stanford Steve tweeted out something about St. Bonaventure, I think it was, in the gym. He loves that. In the gym they were playing in. And he said, you know, it basically looks like one of those games where the players went to the cafeteria to change into their uniforms before the game. They probably did. Which is exactly the way I described this morning on the radio show, this Wizards Nets game. It looked like a summer league game. It was like one of those games where, you know,

for all of you that have played basketball over the years, or maybe some of you are coaching it, it's a summer league game. And like the real coach is out, but he called his brother up to coach the game. And his brother gets there, and the guys are in the auxiliary gym changing into their uniforms. But you only got like five guys, and then two guys walk in. You're like, where have you guys been?

Come on, man, the game's about, summer league is the most disorganized thing when it comes to basketball. And I'm sure any offseason for any sport is the same way, but there's something about summer league basketball coolly where like just coaching over the years. I was just thrilled to have five guys. It's like, can I get five tonight? If I get a sixth and a seventh player, I'm thrilled. All right, we can play now. But it's like, you know, somebody's always walking into the gym as the game's getting ready to start throwing his uniform on. And, you know, it's very, it's just a lot less organized.

And that's what basically every wizard's game is. It's like a summer league game. Last night, the end of this game, basically had no coaching at all involved. I love Scott Brooks as a guy. He's a great guy. You know, I know the players love him. This is one of the coaches. I know they're more organized in this, and this is a bit of an exaggeration.

But this is a basic, roll the ball out. And let's just, you know, let's play. Let's have some fun. see what happens tonight. At 144 to 141, Brooklyn, with 20-something seconds to go, the Wizards had absolutely no plan. They came down and Westbrook chucked up a three, missed it, clanked it off the side of the rim.

No plan for down three. And that sent Kyrie Irving to the free throw line, because he got the rebound, and he makes both free throws. It's 146 to 146, 146, 144.4.4.4.4.4.4. one Brooklyn with 12 seconds to go. They had no plan again. What do you mean no plan? No plan.

Why not run and shoot a deep three? And then steal the inbounds pass and then shoot another three. You're watching it now. So they inbound the ball to Bradley Beale. They're looking at. Ish Smith goes, just take it up and shoot it. That's what it Smith said after the game. Just shoot a three.

Like there's no actual plan for getting a three. You know, it Bradley pulls up from like 30 feet drains it. 146, 144. And then Brooklyn's got two timeouts left. Instead of Steve Nash, who by the way is the coach, but Kyrie is the coach. Kyrie is said that we don't really have a coach. They don't use one of the two timeouts to advance the ball. Instead, Joe Harris, who by the way, man, is just such a great shooter.

UVA, I had no idea he would be this good of an NBA score. He's averaging 49% from behind the arc this year. He was 8 of 13 last night. What a great team to be on if you're just a shooter. Anyway, Joe Harris grabs the ball and throws it to Kevin Durant, but Durant was going in the opposite direction. So he actually threw it right to Garrison Matthews. It's the dumbest play of all time.

Garrison Matthews plays for the Wizards. He actually believes, Harris actually believes he's in a hurry to get the ball inbounded. Real hurry. They've got two timeouts to be inbound the ball. You have five. seconds guy. One thing we want to ensure is we get the ball.

But what you see typically in the NBA with, you know, they use that, they've got two timeouts. Let's use one of them, advance the ball into the front court. So that way, by the way, if we do get it stolen, it's. You have four seconds. Yeah, it's all the way to the other end of the court. So anyway, Garrison Matthew steals feeds Westbrook. He drains a three and just like that with 4.3 seconds left.

The Wizards are up 147, 147. 46. No real plan. No real plan by other coach to do anything, but the wizards are up by three. By the way, Russell Westbrook's best game is a wizard, 41 points last night, and he really is shooting it with more confidence here in the last couple of games. It's probably because he's more healthy. But anyway, then the Nets get the ball, okay? And they have a plan basically with 2.9 seconds to go. underneath their own basket, okay? Because they got the ball, they ended up with the ball underneath their own basket

with 2.9 seconds left. And the Wizards, after a full-timeout, come out and decide that Timothy Luawu Kabaro, I've never heard of the dude who plays for Brooklyn, that they would just leave him unguarded at the rim for a layup at the buzzer. It's a great plan. He can't make layups. He missed the layup.

Nobody guarded him. He just misses one. Cooley, when you're coaching in this situation, when you're coaching seventh grade in this situation, okay, you're up one, the other team has the ball underneath their own basket with 2.9 seconds. The first thing you must do is you got to protect the rim, you got to protect the paint. Nothing's coming inside the paint here. Are we all aware of this?

If they pass the ball, it's going outside and we'll contest a jump shot. We're not giving anything inside the paint. The other thing you do, typically in that situation, I always did it as a coach, I switch every screen. Because with less than five seconds left, there's no ability to take advantage of a mismatch. You know, if you switch a screen and you end up with a mismatch defensively, there's not enough time for the offense to take advantage of it. So you switch every screen so somebody doesn't come open right away. you don't want it to be easy. But they left this guy wide open in the paint.

And Kyrie Irving, who by the way, Cooley, if you're watching this, watch, he travels on the in-bounds pass. They never call this in the NBA. You're not allowed to move on an in-bounds pass unless it's after a made bucket, okay, underneath your own basket. You're not allowed to take, you don't have the whole baseline. He takes four shimmy steps and throws it to this dude cabaret. right at the rim, Rui Hachamura just watches him.

So does Beal. They just watch him. Beal sitting there hanging out next to Kevin Durant. Like, ah, that's probably not going to throw you the ball. And he's there for a layup at the buzzer, and he missed it. He just completely missed it. I could not believe how badly they were coached or they executed defensively on that last possession for the Nets.

That's an outrage. If that game ends with that guy just dunking or laying it in at the buzzer, which should have happened. Like it was a 99% chance that he was going to make a wide open layup or dunk at the buzzer. It was a perfect throw from Kyrie Irving, and it was a perfect defense for Brooklyn because nobody was near him. At the rim. Up one.

I don't know, man. I don't know what's going on with the Wizards. They won the game, and they won it by three, Because after the dude missed the free throw, Beal got the rebound, and there was like 0.3 left or 0.5 left, and he made two free throws, and they won 149, 146. Anyway, I just thought it was so comical to watch the final minute of that game and to watch players try to decide it on their own without any help from the coaches.

And it went well for the Wizards, but it shouldn't have gone well. They had no plan to take the lead, and then they had no plan to stop the nets from taking back the lead. But, you know, I say that. And trust me, I understand there's a very good chance that Brooks had plays called and defensively told them in the huddle what to do and the players just didn't execute. But you got to know as a player at the end there, well, we can't let them pass it right to the rim to a wide open player. Not there.

Yeah. At least make them take a shot. Right. Go to my bookie. dot a g all right sign up you'll get a 50% discount up to a thousand bucks on your deposit and you'll get every super bowl bet prop bet in-game bet that you want my bookie my bookie dot a g lots of contests available as it relates to the super bowl and just so many prop bets use my promo code kevin dc and they'll match your deposit halfway all the way up to a thousand bucks anything else for

you? Well, by the way, the snow was totally overrated. I mean, it's snowing right now outside. I don't know what's going to happen. Um, but we got three inches and some ice. Wasn't that big of a deal. Apparently, we might get another inch this afternoon. All right. Uh, go, go sledding. No. Take a video of yourself. Put it on Twitter. That's a good idea. I'll do that. You'll get a lot of years for that one. It's too bad. It's too bad you're not here, but then again, you wouldn't be able to do it with that terrible knee. That's, that's capable of elevating just 10 pounds worth of wait. All right.

Take care of yourself. Everybody have a great day back tomorrow with Tommy. See you.