The Kevin Sheehan Show - Taking Taylor Inventory

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Kevin and Thom today on a number of topics sports and non-sports but a lengthy segment on Taylor Heinicke....again. They take updated inventory on what he is currently and what he might become. Some Wizards, Monday Night Football, and more on the show as well.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here today with me. Tommy will not be with me on Thursday. We will celebrate Thanksgiving without doing a podcast.

So this will be the only appearance from one Tom Levero this week. Because he does the Philly thing for Thanksgiving, right? No, not this year. Oh. Not this year. We're not doing a large gathering this year. I'm going to my son's house in Baltimore. and he's going to host Thanksgiving for the second year in a row.

Oh, okay. So you're just going to be in Baltimore with your son and family on Friday and unable to do the podcast. Right. We're planning kind of like a family weekend kind of thing. Okay, that's nice. I understand. You know, do something like that. Do you remember there are two stories that we would talk about at Thanksgiving time every year.

and yesterday Scott was on the podcast and told this story about how Clint Longley nearly killed his grandfather, which was, you know, an annual tradition on the show. And I've kept it an annual tradition, although I almost forgot to ask him about it on the podcast yesterday. But for those that haven't heard the Scott Van Pelt story about how Clint Longley nearly killed his grandfather, it's towards the end of yesterday's podcast. But there was another story. Do you remember, remember the story of my friend Kenny? Yes. With the mother-in-law. Right, with the Disney World Trip, remember?

Yes. Oh, yes. Classic. So a good friend of mine, his name's Ken, Ken is a massive Cowboys fan. Has been throughout his life. Ken grew up in Jersey, but was, you know, just a Cowboys fan. And he's lived down here.

And we worked together many, many years ago, and we've stayed friends over the years. And he told us the story, and this is probably 10 years ago now, where his in-laws offered to take the entire family and pay for a trip to Disney World for Thanksgiving under one condition. And that condition was that Kenny wouldn't be allowed to watch the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. This is a true story.

God's honest truth, a true story. And it was quite the dilemma for him and his wife and his at the time young girls who would be really excited about a trip to Disney World. And I- Heck, I'd be excited about a trip to Disney World. Right, especially when it's not on your dime. It's on the in-laws. But I said to him, that is quite the ask. I mean, that is really, that's harsh.

insulting in many ways. It's a gun to your head. It's a hostage situation. It was a total hostage situation. And I remember saying to him, that's one of those where I don't know what your relationship is with your in-laws. And, you know, there's a dynamic there that, you know, unless you're in it, you really can't understand. But if that were me, I would say, wait a minute, let's sit down and talk about this.

I don't, I understand that Thanksgiving is a very important holiday. And by the way, I know many of you out there probably don't have football as a big part of the Thanksgiving Day holiday. And when you sit down to eat no matter what time you do it, you know, a lot of people, including my very own wife, doesn't want a TV on with the game on. And so we've hosted Thanksgiving for years. And unless the skins were playing, if the skins were playing, it was a different schedule because I was working. You know, I did the pregame show, had to come home watch the game, had responsibilities for work. But if they weren't playing, I had no problem at all. And I prefer it, actually.

Turn the TV off. We're going to enjoy Thanksgiving dinner as a family with everybody that's here. And, you know, if there's a game, you know, that's on that's really important, I'm just going to, I'm recording it. And I can go back and watch it later. And I said to it, but, you know, this is his favorite team. And it's been for him a tradition since he's been a little boy. That on Thanksgiving, he and his family, they watch the Cowboys.

Well, this was a tradition that was not respected by the in-laws at all. And they didn't want him watching it. They did not want, they wanted him with the family when dinner was served, or even if dinner wasn't served until, you know, maybe it was early in the day or the game was later. That was the condition. We'll pay for this, but you're not watching the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. Well, he watched the Thanks.

He watched the Cowboys on Thanksgiving, just not from Disney World, just not from Orlando. He called me this week, and he said, you're not going to believe about this other dilemma that I have. My in-laws now, they're hosting Thanksgiving, and they have said that, I guess in recent years, there's been some, there's been some compromise, you know, whether it's, you know, hit the DVR or hit the pause button or whatever it is, there's been some compromise. This year, they're hosting it, and they don't want him watching the Cowboys game at all. And so now he's had it. And he just said, that's fine. I won't be having Thanksgiving with you people.

Good for him. Yeah. Right? That's what I told him. Yeah. Good for him. And his wife should be standing with him. I think she is.

I think that they are. I think he said to me, and I may have this wrong, and Kenny, if you're listening, you can correct me, and then I'll correct the record tomorrow on the podcast. But I think he said that, you know, the girls are going to go over and see, you know, the in-laws and hang out, his girls, and then, but he and the wife are not going. I mean, okay. You know, it's one thing if somebody's really not into it. They know how into this he is and how big it is for him and how part of, how much of a part of his tradition it's been.

And it's not like he's asking them to watch the game with him. No, not at all. It's not like he's saying, I want you to join in my tradition. Right. You know, you could stick, as I understand it, if they stuck up in a room by himself with a TV during dinner, he'd be fine. Or, you know, it's one of those things. Now, if you've got a massive crowd,

and I don't think they are a part of a massive Thanksgiving Day crowd. But, you know, if there's kind of a mutual respect there, it's like, look, the game starts at 4.30. You know, you do dinner when you want to do it, and I'm going to be as much of a part of it as I can, but I really don't want to miss the game. Now, what I would do in that situation, I would say, look, do you have a DVR? Can we just record it or hit pause? And, you know, and I'll sit, you know, during the game. for 45 minutes or whatever it is, and then I'll go back and I'll catch up.

And, you know, I want to be a part of both. But no, he's not going to watch the game at their place, period. That's bad. Yeah, now, you know, it's like everything else. Actually, I'm going to share another quick story with you. So I got a call yesterday from a friend of mine, a friend of mine who is a big listener to the station and the podcast. He is a huge Maryland supporter, Maryland fan, goes to every football game,

game, every basketball game. And he called me yesterday. And when I say he's a friend, I know him through the radio, him as a caller, and I know him because he's a major caller and one of Mad Dog's callers on XM serious on Chris Rousseau's Mad Dog radio. He's one of his favorite callers and he's on that show all the time. And he's a big fan of our show. And he listens and he calls in every once in a while. Big Terp, anyway. He called me and he said, I was asked to leave the Maryland basketball game against Hofstra on Friday night. Some woman complained that I was cheering too loud. And so the guy came down to my seats and said, you're going to have to go. And I basically turned right and told him, look, I'll have a conversation with you about this, but not during the game.

I'm the customer here. I'm here. I pay for these tickets. There's nothing vulgar. There's nothing on here. And I'm just very passionate about the team. And if whomever's complained can't deal with that, I don't know what to tell you. But I'm not, my, my behavior is not out of order at all. And the guy kept pushing him. He said he turned around and said, look, I pay for these tickets. I'm sitting here right now. This is what I pay for to watch the game. I will have this conversation with you, but not during the game. And then apparently, according to to him, the students started getting on the person from that had come down to ask him to leave, because I think he's become kind of a favorite of the student section. He's right next to the

student section. And he's a very passionate, loud fan. Now, the reason I bring that story up is like with my friend Kenny, we only know one side of this story. There may be a completely different side of this story where we might side with the in-laws or we might side with the person that came down from the ticket office. You know, sometimes it really helps to know the entirety of this story in both sides. But it seems really, really out of bounds to do that, you know, to hold him hostage over the Cowboys game. But maybe we're missing something in the relationship dynamic.

Well, look, if they were capable of using a family trip to Disney World to force his hand and they're capable of anything. Yeah, that's true. That's true because... If they were capable of that, knowing very well the pressure it would put on him and his family, and all of a sudden, what would have, under normal conditions, been a generous gesticest, turns into almost extortion. No, I mean, there's no other side to this. You know, Tommy, in this day and age, isn't it refreshing that family arguments can be about

whether or not you get to watch the cowboy game on Thanksgiving rather than Joe Biden in 24 or written house or anything else that's going on in the world? Because there are going to be a lot of those conversations, and a lot of those just over the last few years have really, really made things uncomfortable and awkward for a lot of people. This one's just about a stupid football game. But I'll tell you what, if... Yeah, and, you know, go ahead. No, I mean, I can't imagine at any point my in-laws ever if the skins were playing and we were doing Thanksgiving somewhere else. No, you can't watch that game. I'd be like, you know, sorry, I won't be there. Nobody in my life would ever do that.

But, again, maybe we're missing part of the story. I dealt with something similar. I remember the Philadelphia. For years in Philadelphia. But my in-laws, like I said, like I've told you before, they make the waltons look like a motorcycle gang. They would never say to me, you can't watch the game. It would just be, there would be so many of them, for one thing.

I mean, you know, I mean, my family, there's nobody from my family there except me, because I basically have nobody left but me in my family. And they have an army. You know, if all the husbands and wives show up, there's 19 people there and me. So it's sort of like a pressure situation by atmosphere, you know, that no one else is going to watch the game. No one even talks about watching the game. Everyone sits down when dinner's ready to watch to eat dinner, and it's just understood.

So I always felt, if one thing, unless Washington was playing in the game, it wasn't really relevant to my job. Right. As much as I would enjoy watching the game, I would just quietly surrender without any overt pressure from the other side. Right. you know, I mean, but eventually they became more sympathetic to my position. And when the dinner switched from the mother-in-law and father-in-law's house to a sister-in-law's house, they would put me in the basement in front of a TV.

I remember that. And one time, and one time he even brought me dinner. I was just going to ask you. I remember you telling me they had a whole setup for you in the basement, and they brought you dinner downstairs. Because that was a Redskins. That was a Skins game. Yes, that was the Skins game.

You had a couple of years ago, I think it was two years ago, or maybe three years ago, two years ago, when Cole McCoy started for Washington against the Cowboys. I think it was against the Cowboys. No, that wasn't Thanksgiving. No, that wasn't Thanksgiving.

No, no, no, no. That was Thanksgiving. That was the game after Alex Smith got injured in 2018. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And I get to my in-laws' house, and I figure I'm going to watch the game.

And no problem in the basement. Well, it turns out they're renovating their basement, and the TV's not hooked up. So there's no place for me to watch the game. Right. So I leave and go to a dive bar in Westchester, Pennsylvania. I mean, a real dive bar. And watch the game there, eating beer nuts, you know, drinking drinking yinling. Oh, by the way, that sounds lovely.

I mean, spending Thanksgiving by myself, drinking yingling and eating and beating nuts. I love it. Where can I sign up for that? It's so interesting, isn't it, that, you know, because we're so, and most of you listening, obviously, are so immersed in sports. and yet there are so many people that couldn't give a shit about anything. I mean, my wife is the perfect example. She just, I mean, we've been married a long time. I have three boys, and we are constantly watching sports, playing sports,

and debating and arguing about sports. And she just, over the years, she understands it. She's gotten used to it. There are a couple of things that she'll sit down and, you know, pay attention to, but she still just sort of, you know, shakes her head and goes, I just don't understand the commitment to this kind of thing. And there are lots of people that don't care at all. So there are many homes in America where Thanksgiving is a sacred meal and the TVs won't be on. Hell, many of those people barely like your in-law situation where they didn't even have a working TV. I mean, who only has one TV to begin with? And then who never, who does it right now? How many people in the audience have a situation where they don't have a working TV? I bet zero.

The point being is that there are places where it's not even, it's not even a consideration, like Sundays or Saturdays or football season. It just doesn't mean anything. Thanksgiving and football, you know, it doesn't mean anything. But even for those people, I will say this. I think the Super Bowl is the one thing that gets their attention. Because there's a party and they want to be invited to the party. They may not know anything about the teams or anything else, but they do know the Super Bowl is on. I think that's the one event that America as a whole knows is going on.

But there are plenty of homes that won't have football on on Thanksgiving. Let me illustrate the depth of my family's lack of interest and sense. football. It was the year that the Ravens, the first Ravens Super Bowl, the Ray Lewis Super Bowl for the 2000 Ravens. My sister-in-law scheduled a birthday party for their father on Super Bowl Sunday. Yeah. And there was no TV to be watched. So my kids will never forget us pulling off the side of the road in Delaware on the way back from the party, going into another dive bar

that we had never been in before, obviously. And they remember sitting in the bar watching the Raven Super Bowl that Sunday. They'll never forget that. Well, that's a good memory. Yeah, it is. You know? I mean, I also wonder,

I remember when I told you a few, weeks ago that that I'm not as into gambling as I used to be. And like you made the point. I think it was a good one and I think it was pretty perceptive. And that is that now it's not just for the so-called cool people, but it's for all the dopes and the people who have never, ever had access to it. Now it's not as interesting. I think that that might be part of it. But I think it's more or less that as you get older, and I think this is true with you, my observation of you over 15 years now, or however long we've known each other, 11 or 10 or 12 or whatever, really knowing each other, that your interest in sports has waned over the years, as you've gotten older.

It has, it has to so extent. I'll grant you that. And you know what's interesting, I see it in my friends. I see it in people who, who, I mean, like my best friend, Pete, who, I mean, we used to go to Jets games together. We used to go to Knicks games together. And he was through, and now, I mean, he'll watch it casually, occasionally, but really doesn't, you know, have any interest in it. And I think there is some kind of age factor there. And I'm doing everything I can to fight it, actually, because I fight. as much as I can, all those kind of age factors. Like I say, I don't, I listen to music all the time.

Me too. When everyone around me listens to podcasts or talk radio or books on tape, you know. And I say to myself, what did you do when you were 18? I said, that's what I want to do when I'm 68, the same thing, as much as possible. I think you're right to some extent about the interest in sports. Certainly the NBA, but I think that's a generational thing too. That's a stylistic thing. Well, I mean, what you just said, part of it makes sense to me and part of it doesn't,

because I do think of you as someone who much of our audience would perceive to be old, crudity, inflexible, and a lot of that is true, by the way. about Tom, but at the same time, you have always surprised me with your interest and your connection to things like new technologies. And your interest in a lot of that stuff. I think it's sort of in conflict with your age. And by the way, your general disposition personality-wise. But in being serious, you've always sort of gravitated towards newer things and being open-minded to newer things. And yet you just said, and you were sort of critical of people who are listening to podcasts, which is a relatively new thing, including this podcast. So let's be careful there.

No, I definitely, and I don't know what I would credit this to. first of all, I've always been interested in a lot of other things, and a lot of things that we never even bring up on this podcast or radio show because we are, you know, playing the hits, as they say. You know, there's a saying in radio in particular, play the hits. Whatever the number one sports story of the day is or story, that's what you should be talking about. Or it better be something that you're really, really passionate about

and can make, you know, sort of interesting. Anyway, that aside, I think that part of it is that I do have, over the, in recent years, I'm not as interested in spending as many hours watching it. I am much less interested in going to games when I used to be the guy that would say, no, no, no, let's get tickets, let's go to the game. You know, that's really, really dried up for me in the last five. years in particular. But I will say that I think the demise of the Washington football team has had a big part in that because that was always at the top of the list of passions. And so I don't have that

as like this obsession. I mean, I do because of work and I do because I still love football, but I think that might have something to do with it too. Like, there is no doubt that there have been more skins games in recent years that I've recorded and, you know, during the fourth quarter, turned off and watched other football or watched something else and come back to it for the purposes of the show because it was just so boring and awful. But maybe it's about to change.

Well, like I said, it's a good thing. Taylor Heineke came along at the right time, isn't it? We got a lot to talk about as it relates to that person's performance on Sunday and beyond. I also do want to talk about the Wizards game last night, the Giants Buccaneers game last night, and you have some sort of wrestling story that you want to tell. So we'll get to all of that, starting right after these words from a few of our sponsors. This segment of the show is brought to you by My Booky. This year, Turkey Day at My Bookie, gives you plenty of reasons to be thankful, starting with a $250 risk-free bet on Thursday afternoon

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So if you lose on the Raiders bet at $250 and they refund your $250, you're going to have to have to. to make another bet. Don't think that you can just go there, sign up, and be given $250. But they will double your first deposit and give you free money to gamble with. MyBooky at mybooky.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. Real quickly, before we get to the Taylor Heineke stuff, you said, as we were gearing up for this segment, you said that you watched King Richard.

Was it good? Yes. Yes, it was good. I mean, was it great? I don't think it was great, but it was good. And I thought Will Smith was very good. I mean, I just don't think that it's worth the rave that everybody has made over it. But it's a pretty good movie.

My wife watched it with me. She could care less about, like your wife, she could care less about sports, but she enjoyed it as well. Because it was a well-told story. The acting was good, and Will Smith was pretty good. My question would be, was Richard Williams just completely nuts or was he part genius? It's a sympathetic look at Richard Williams. I mean, you know, they claim they show his flaws.

But it's like, well, we have to show something that, you know, in a negative light because basically a lot of people thought this guy was crazy. But, I mean, you know, basically the bottom line is the story hinges on the fact that, you know, he didn't have his daughters play junior tennis. And they went right from pretty much practicing to the pros, which was unheard of, you know, not to play in junior tennis tournaments. And he felt that, you know, the kids got burned out playing that. And that was kind of, I thought, the most important takeaway in the story. But it's very sympathetic towards Richard Williams.

And maybe it should be. I don't want you to have to put out a spoiler alert, but I'm just curious. What is the relationship between Richard Williams now and, you know, daughters, Serena and Venus? Do you know? That's not in the movie. Okay. because boy he really hasn't been in a big spot match as a cutaway for a camera for a long time seems like a very long time I don't know what his health is that could be part of it

I do want to watch it I definitely want to watch it I recommend it to everybody even if you're not a tennis fan it's worth watching or not? Yes, I did. Okay. And... Yes, I did. Now I want to read the book. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, it was good. I thought the

last episode wasn't nearly as good as the next to last episode. But whatever. No. It was a really good show. God, Michael Keaton's so good and everything he does. And I mentioned this before, but the girl who played Betsy in that thing, I think her name's Caitlin Deaver or Devere or something like that was so good in the show.

All right, let's talk about Taylor Heineke. I'll let you have at it first because I know you wrote a column about the team and about Taylor Heineke and you haven't weighed in on the game on Sunday, so go ahead. Well, I mean, the gist of my column was, as far as November weekends goes, this was a pretty good November of you're a Washington sports fan. I mentioned the Washington Spirit winning the women's soccer league title. I mentioned the Wizards coming back to beat the heat at home after losing to them a couple of days before, and the Washington football teams win in Carolina to go basically four and six at this point in the season.

And I also pointed out four and six in November, it's not that unusual for this football team, even if they're on the march forward. I mean, there have been plenty of times. They've been four, six, or four, or seven at this point, and then managed to play their way into the playoffs. What makes this, I think, particularly unique, or at least gets people a little bit more excited than normal is the quarterback, Taylor Heineke.

And I just think that his style, his story, even if it's inflated, even if people are over-emphasizing all that stuff, still is having an impact on people. I think people are like, look, and I point this out in the column, you know, Kirk Cousins took Washington, you know, to the playoff in a year where they were four and six or four and seven at one point. And Kirk Cousins is having a great career, and it's having a great season.

Jimmy Johnson went out of his way to say so on Sunday on the Fox NFL show. But no one ever loved Kirk Cousins in this town. He just wasn't a lovable guy.

Well, besides you. Well, there was context to that, too. It's because a lot of people loved RG3. Yes. Yeah. If he had been their first quarterback and only quarterback taken, and it played right from the jump and it developed the way he developed,

it would have been a different feeling about him. I'm not sure if it would have been. It would have been different, but you're right. He's not stylistically or personality-wise. It's apples and oranges with Taylor Heineke. But I'm saying a big part of it was because it created this incredible, you know, tension between the people that thought RG3 was being wronged and those that looked at it, you know, and said, well, it looks like the other guy just is better.

Yeah, no, you're right. You're right, but I think the Taylor Heineke thing is what we're seeing, and what at least my impression is and my feeling is what I'm feeling is what Ron Rivera has been feeling throughout this season. You know, like, God, he kind of like this guy. You know, I mean, he's such a take-charge guy, and his teammates just, you know, love him. And I use that Ernie O'Corsi story about how you want your quarterback to be the guy that when the team gets on the bus to go to the game, they feel that when that guy gets on the bus, they have a chance to win. And Ron Rivera basically has said that his teammates feel that way about him now.

They feel that he gives them a chance to win these games. and I think fans are starting to feel that way too. Remember when he mentioned the leadership thing a few weeks ago was right when we were having the discussion about probably getting ready to see Kyle Allen. And I said we may want to put the brakes on that because this is what's important to run. These intangibles are massively important to him. He's made that very clear since the moment he arrived and started to talk about needing to see it in Dwayne Haskins.

It's really just such, I talked to Scott about this yesterday on the podcast. Man, the NFL, it just changes on a dime. You know, one week you're thinking this team sucks and this other team's great. And two weeks later, you're like, oh, my God, how could I have thought that two weeks ago? You know, on Taylor. Yeah, look at the Cowboys. Look at the Cowboys. Look at the Titans.

How do the Titans lose to the Texans? Lose to the Texans, I know. But as it relates to the players, I mean, Taylor Heineke was, you know, for those that have been absolutely convinced, and there's a lot of those people out there that have been absolutely convinced since the moment they saw him last year, especially against Tampa in the playoff game, that's the guy. We don't have to think about it any further. That's the guy. He's the future of this franchise. Let's get him locked up. we don't need to go get anybody else.

And then those people were even just a few weeks ago going, okay, I'm seeing some of the stuff that some of you other people saw. But now they're right back on it. Look, there is, he was great on Sunday. In fact, let me just mention this because we're doing this podcast right now, and I've not seen any awards for the week. But it would not surprise me if Taylor Heineke ends up being the offensive player of the week in the NFL.

Now, I don't know, I'm trying to think of some of the other performances. His QBR was the highest of the weekend. He was the highest rated PFF quarterback for whatever that's worth. And there were some really good quarterback performances, by the way, including from the guy you mentioned earlier. What's the guy's name who quarterbacks the Vikings? Kirk Cousins. Kirk Cous. And the guy who quarterbacked the Cardinals on Sunday.

Colt McCoy. Colt McCoy. Justin Herbert was phenomenal. on Sunday night against the Steelers. Anyway, he might garner some of those awards, which will really get people going. But I can't change the way I feel right now. I am totally open to changing the way I feel

because I already did that two weeks ago. I went from being, no, no, no, no, I want to see more. I want to see more. There's something to this guy. There's a lot that I like about this guy. I don't think he's the guy, but I want to see more to declaring two and a half, three weeks ago he's an NFL backup quarterback.

That's what he is. He's Colt McCoy. He's a 6 and 10 quarterback. He's a 6 and 11, 7, 10 and 10 quarterback. And I am definitely open to changing my mind on him. I am. I promise you, because here's the thing. There are things about him that I like a lot.

Not a little bit, a lot. I think he is a high-level athlete. And all those intangibles, the competitiveness, the gamer, the leadership. I love all of that about him. But I still see a guy that, you know, in nine starts this year, has had three or four games where you, I mean, you're convinced watching those performances, yeah, he's a backup quarterback. And then you watch what he did Sunday, much more so than even last week, and you're like, maybe he's still growing. Maybe he's still developing. He's only 28 and he's only started 10 games in his career or whatever it's been 11 if you count the one in

Carolina. But I keep coming back to this Tommy. This is a Tom Levero when in doubt go-to. What do the people who are the supposed experts that know much more than we know? What have their actions told you? Well, they went out and tried to find, you know, in 30 different ways they're starting quarterback for the future in the offseason. They offered a lot for Stafford. They looked into, as the Silver Story outlined, seven, eight, nine different quarterbacks. They considered moving up in the draft for, I think it was Justin Fields.

And then they ended up paying Ryan Fitzpatrick $10 million to come in and be the starter. What did they do just two weeks ago, or maybe it's three weeks ago now? According to reports, they were interested in trading for Mitch Trubisky. So that was just three weeks ago. Now, it's very possible that there's a conversation going on in the building after Sunday or after the last two weeks where Marty Herney and Martin Mayhew and Ron Rivera and Scott Turner and other people, Bill Pauley and et cetera. They're sitting around going, anybody up for considering a contract extension offer right now?

Like even if he isn't the guy, we get him at a decent value for the next three, four years. We know at the worst case, he's going to be our backup. but he's shown us that, you know, the things that we love about him, he's got that in spades, and then the things that we didn't love about him, he seems to be getting better with. I wonder if that conversation's going on, because three weeks ago, Tommy, that conversation was not happening. No.

No, listen, I've done not a total 180 because, I mean, I'm not 100% there yet, but I've pretty much went from dismissing him. to taking him far more seriously than I had been. And I don't see how you can't. And, you know, it's ironic. You know what movie is coming out on Christmas Day? I don't. American underdog.

What's the movie about? It's the Kurt Warner story. Oh, that's what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Kurt Warner movie is coming out this year. Coincidence? Or karma? I don't know. Like, somebody asked me about that. Somebody brought his name up this morning on the radio show. And I'm like, Kurt Warner was a star in the Arena League. This guy was a backup in the XFL.

Like the XFL didn't view him as a starter. I know. So all of those things. I know. And we can say, well, all of those people got it wrong. And you could say about the NFL, and I hear this all the time, you know, well, it's because, well, I heard it this morning because the draft status thing, I understand the argument, but I also kind of don't really care because every single team in the league passed on this guy for four or five years. Like they saw, they brought him in, Minnesota had him.

It's been one guy. It's been one guy that's believed that he at least belongs in the league somewhere. And it's Scott Turner. If this guy ends up being a franchise quarterback for this organization, you can thank Scott Turner. He's the one. He had him in Minnesota, brought him to Carolina. He's the one that brought him here. And so he's the one that saw it. But even Scott didn't see it, see it.

But I guess what I was going to say is, I mean, the NFL might have some sort of self-preservation thing going on where they don't want to admit that they really blew it on this guy. but what does the XFL have to worry about? They saw this guy and said he's a backup. I know. Now maybe... Look, you're right. There's a lot of free. There's a lot.

Taylor Heineke's background gives you no reason to have faith in him. The back of his baseball card is not good. Well, it's blank. Yes. I mean, that's the point. I understand that. It's not journeymen that just finally got into the right situation. It's blank.

Like, he didn't play until essentially, you know, the one shot he had in Carolina. And, oh, by the way, the other thing was, oh, my God, this guy gets hurt every time he plays. Well, that hasn't happened. Although, man, did he get bent backwards and twisted around like a pretzel on Sunday? I couldn't walk after that hit. And yet he got right back. up and he makes a third and 21 throw and then makes the being a biggest play of the game, which was the fourth and three play.

Ron Rivera said something, and I'm looking for the quote. Hold on for a second. I'm going to find it about him yesterday. He was asked a question that I think was a pretty interesting question, and I may have the question wrong. I'm reading from the transcript. At what point does inexperience go away with quarterbacks, basically? you know, is it no longer an issue of, well, he's just, you know, he's got to play more. You know, he needs more games. We need a larger sample size. And Ron Rivera said, quote, I think you figure out guys after they've played for a good year.

16 games, 17 games now. I guess it's the number. But, you know, then he gets into his growth. He played for us. He played that one game in Carolina. He got an opportunity to play a game there, a couple of games here last year. Now he's playing a lot. There's still so many things he's learning and growing and developing. It's been a lot of fun to watch. It really has. You watch a tape and you sit down and I listen to Scott talk specifically about plays and what he's doing on different things. And it's really kind of interesting to see these things and how he sees them.

Now there's a lot of things that come natural to him. And then he goes into the natural athleticism. He says that kind of speaks to his athleticism like yesterday having to throw around Jeremy chin, the sidearm shot. Yeah. And then, which, by the way, was a play I talked about in my recap yesterday, I said a play that's not going to get a lot of attention, but you see he's got the Mahomes-Rogers contorting arm angle thing

was the throw with chin is the free blitzer that he made to Dax Milne for five yards. It was really impressive. All of his athletic stuff is impressive. Like he's a tremendous athlete. He said, Ron said, those things are athletic. and then the fourth and three throw to Bates. Those are the things that he can do. Those are the things that are innate to what his skill set is.

So I still think that the powers that be, and this would be a Rivera, Scott Turner and, you know, I guess the general managing group, the front office, there are still things about Taylor Heineke that they're concerned with, like when they're having the conversation about, a franchise quarterback. And my personal feeling, even after these last two games, is they have to aim higher. The organization isn't going to win multiple Super Bowls if Taylor Heineke is your starter. They're not going to have a run of many years of sustained playoff success if he's your

starter. I still believe that. I do. I think they need to aim much higher. But as I've said all along, I want him as my backup. I want him as my, you know, occasional starter here. But subject to change. Let's see what happens because the things... Here's the thing, though, Kevin. Go ahead. The opportunity, the opportunity to grab that high may not ever be there for this team.

Fair enough. I mean, in other words, to be in a position to grab a high-level quarterback, who fits everything that you're talking about. They may not ever have that opportunity or may not have it in the next three or four years. So, you know, I mean, they may have to settle for the quarterback that whose teammates love them.

I hear you. I think it's a really, really good point because before you run Taylor Heineke off as your non-starter for 2022, well, who's going to be the starter? And we've already, you know, we've already agreed that they're not trading for Wilson or Rogers or any of those big guys. They're not, you know, they're not probably going to be the destination for any of the premium if there are free agents.

The only chance they have is through the draft more likely than not, and that's a crapshoot. I wanted to read this one other quote from Rivera. He was asked about how important it is for Heineke to be able to continue. to be able to continuously improve. And he said, quote, I think it's important because, again, you get a little bit of rhythm going with the guys around you. You get a little bit of rhythm going,

and you get an understanding and a feel for it. And I think because he's had that opportunity, we're seeing what he can develop into. I'm not saying this guy is going to be a Hall of Famer. But again, if this guy continues to manage and direct and then make plays when we need them, that's what I've always said we're hoping to get out of this, is a guy that can do that,

that managed the game, and then when they have to make plays, make the plays. We're fortunate where we got a lot of that last year, and we're hoping to build off of what we have right now, and we'll see what happens. I wanted to read that quote because to me, what Ron Rivera and maybe Scott Turner and others, and I have no idea what everybody specifically thinks, we only hear from Rivera and Turner each week.

But I think what they believe and what they wanted to see if Taylor Heineke could become is a guy that if they put a really good team around him, like a really good team, could he run the offense, could he manage the game? And then when he's got to make a play like on fourth down and three against Carolina, he can make that play. You know, because if he's that, well, then we can, you know, we can be successful. Maybe not Hall of Fame slash Super Bowl successful, but we can be successful. I would just like them to aim as high as they can on the quarterback front. And that's reasonable if you think you can get Justin Herbert.

Yeah. Yeah. If you think that highly of somebody that, yeah, if you think he could get Justin Herbert, yeah. But here's the other thing about Heineke. I mean, one, two, three, four, five. He threw to seven different receivers on Sunday. Yeah.

You know, I mean, he's not a guy who... Seven's not like a shitload. I mean, they're games where certain quarterbacks go to nine or ten. Yes, I mean, but bad quarterbacks throw to Terry McClorne all the time. Well, he goes to McClorn and looks in his direction a hell of a lot. Yeah. I know, and he had five catches. My point is none of these guys are Logan Thompson.

Thomas, who has proven to have been in a short time here, a very good receiver and a very good security blanket for quarterbacks. And he hasn't been part of this yet even. That's true. He probably will be on Sunday. I asked Ron, I don't know if it's... Or Monday night, I mean... I don't know if it's going to be Monday night. He's now practicing, but they've got 21 days to pull them off the IR.

But, you know, I asked Ron Rivera on Friday, I said, of the guys that you haven't had, because we've, You know, people have talked a lot about what you haven't had offensively. Curtis Samuel, Logan Thomas, Diami Brown. Deami Brown was back in uniform on Sunday. Who have you missed the most? And he said, I guess it's Logan Thomas because, you know, we know what he is and we know what he is as a target in the red zone. And I do think they've missed Logan Thomas a lot. I also don't, I also am not buying into that they're doing this with basically nothing on offense. actually like a lot of what they have on offense. And yeah, I understand that Curtis Samuel might be the most dynamic weapon other than McLaren that they have and that Logan Thomas is their best pass catching tight end and their best all around tight end and that they've missed something with it.

But, you know, we all watch football. Terry McLaren is, you know, a truly, is a number one guy and maybe a top 10 guy in the league. Secondly, this guy, D'Andre Carter, is everything they thought Sims Jr. would be. And the combination of Carter and McKissick to a certain degree is kind of where Samuel would have been. Maybe Samuel would have been a lot better, you know, but the combination of Carter,

the combination of McKissick out of the backfield, Gibson, you know, they've had, they've got some weapons. They're not, the cupboard isn't bare without Samuel and Logan Thomas. We've seen sometimes with this organization in the past, they're missing one player and it all goes to hell in the handbucket. I give them credit because I think they, you know, they found something in Carter, definitely. They really found something in Carter.

They really, I think, made a really good pick in Gibson and I think a really good free agent pick up last year in McKissick. And by the way, Cam Sims working back into the mix as well. Big target. And the point is, you're right. They'd be better off with Thomas and with Samuel. But this guy's not doing it without anything. He's doing it with one of the best receivers in the game,

certainly a top half of the guy, if not a top 10 guy. And he's doing it with other guys that can really make plays. Gibson, McKissick, Carter, etc. They got some playmakers. I think they're a little bit underrated offensively in terms of what they do have. Yeah, I think you're right. No, you don't. No, I do.

I think that I've always thought that Gibson was Antonio Gibson was a great offensive weapon as long as he can hold on to the ball. And McKissick has been one of the best pickups they've had in recent years. I mean, I love both of those guys. So, yeah, I agree with you. I also will mention this because I mentioned it on the podcast. Yesterday is part of my recap, and I think he's been a part of the recap, you know,

two out of the last three weeks and maybe three out of the last four. I think Scott Turner's really, really doing a good, I think he's really proving himself to be a legitimate offensive coordinator. and play caller. And I think that the fit is a good one. And I think he has evolved a little bit as a play caller and as a designer with Heineke. Maybe, you know, he was going with primarily what he thought Fitzpatrick would be best at. But I think Scott Turner, and I asked Rivera this like three weeks ago, I said, tell me about the job Turner's doing. It seems that he is scheming people open a lot. And he said he's absolutely doing that. And he's doing a really good job with play calling.

I think Rivera's got a lot of confidence in Scott Turner right now. And I'm not saying that Scott's his dad. I'm not saying that Scott's Josh McDaniels. I'm not saying any of that. But we had an offensive coordinator last year in his first opportunity as an offensive coordinator. And I think that he's doing a damn good job. They were the balance on Sunday and last week wasn't just for balance's sake. They were running the football effectively.

He stayed balanced. He took the pressure off. Hineke, which, and not to mention the complementary football with the defense playing well, they weren't getting behind in these games. And he did it, and the offense did it against two good defensive football teams. That's the other thing. Yes, they did. And Monday night, they're not playing a good defensive football team.

They're playing a bad defensive football team. I mean, you know, there was a point where we counted Seattle as, you know, as another loss looking early in the season. Now it's certainly a winnable game for them. And the Raiders too. Yes. You know, the Raiders weren't supposed to be very good. The Raiders were supposed to be a really tough out. They are, they're not playing well. That's why, you know, well, whatever. Ironically, if you look at their schedule starting now, their toughest opponent may be the Eagles. I totally, well, I think the Cowboys and the Eagles, that's four really, you know, telling games. But to get them. into position really and truly for those games to matter, the next two weeks are just crucial.

You're playing a bad defensive team that appears to be in the first rock bottom moment of the Pete Carroll-Russell-Wilson era. Like there is not all as well in Seattle. They cannot score and their defense is bad. It's bad. So Washington should, given that they've moved the ball and scored points in their last two games against two good defensive teams, they should have an opportunity Monday night to win. By the way, that line's gone to pick them. I predicted it yesterday, Tommy. When I saw it open at two and a half, I said that's going to be pick them or Washington's going to be a one point favorite at game time. I don't know how Seattle was made a favorite off of what we saw Sunday. I really don't.

And right now, let me just say, right now, Washington just went to minus one in most places. So this is massive, sharp betting money here early in the week on Washington. Hell, this thing might go to Washington minus two or three, because people are essentially believing that Seattle is done. They are done. This is going to be it for P. Carroll. This is going to be it for Russell Wilson. They're done. The Raiders, the follow.

week, well, they're going to have a long, you know, build up to that game because they play the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. But it's very likely or very possible there'll be a five and six football team having lost, what is it, like three in a row or four in a row, something like that, if they lose to the Cowboys. And then, you know, then you get the five division game ending. You know, you get the Cowboys twice, the Eagles, twice, and the Giants one more time. And now the Giants, we're going to get to that. here in a moment because I want to talk about the Giants and the Wizards to finish up the show.

I mean, I can't believe what I'm doing here. Good God. I mean, it's the NFL. They'll probably get, would anything surprise you? Like Seattle winning by three touchdowns Monday night. At this point, nothing in the NFL should surprise. No, you're right. The Titans losing to the Texans like that.

It's just stunning. The Brown's almost losing to the Tim Boyle-led line. you know, lions. Jesus, the NFL is nuts this year. It's nuts. I'm with you in Philadelphia. I've been saying that for several weeks. I think the Eagles are much better than people think. And of those five and five, five, five and six teams that are vying essentially for two spots now in the NFC, two wild card spots. I think Philadelphia, Minnesota are the two best teams. And I think San Francisco is, is dangerous right now. I think they're coming.

So we'll see. All right. Anything else on Heineke or the game? No. I do want to tell my wrestling story. I know you do. I know you want to tell your wrestling story. Real quickly, because you're not going to be on the rest of the week,

and then you don't do the Monday show with me. So do you see Washington winning on Monday night against Seattle? No, they're going to lose. How many more wins do they have in them this year? Seven games left. Three more. That would be a seven and ten season. Yeah, same amount of games they won last year.

Right, with one extra game and one extra opportunity. I think they'll win two more. I think they'll end up that. Look, they've already won the two that I said they would win the rest of the way after the Denver game. So now I'm going to go two more, and that would put them at a 6 and 11 mark. But I have a feeling they are going to win on Monday night. And then the, oh, my God, the excitement is going to build, Tommy. The excitement is going to build for all of these division games.

And on Thanksgiving, if the Raiders somehow can pull it off in Dallas, now you're in the division race with a win over Seattle. All right. Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast really helps us rate us and review us as well. Back after these words from a few of our sponsors. Two things before Tommy gets to his wrestling story. Good God, Daniel Jones was awful last night in the Giants' loss to Tampa Bay. I don't know what to make of Daniel Jones.

I've liked Daniel Jones at times, and then at other times I haven't liked them. If I were a giant fan, I wouldn't have given up on him at this point. But last night was so bad. Like, it didn't look like he knew how to play at all. The Tampa Bay's defense was a little bit healthier. They did not have Vita Vaya, and they lost Vita Vaya during the game against us last week. But they were a little bit healthier on defense than they were against Washington last week. But still, the Giants couldn't do anything offensively.

They were one for nine on third down. They had 215 total yards. And Daniel Jones threw some of the worst balls you've ever seen. And Jason Garrett, I don't know what's going on there, but they were cutting the field off in half for him, rolling them out. And look, the only way to really move the football against Tampa Bay, at least this year has been most teams believe, is to throw the football. Daniel Jones was terrible last night.

I'm looking at his QBR right now, 15.4 in the game. Right now of the starting quarterbacks in the NFC East, Daniel Jones is the worst. And then we can debate Jalen Hertz or Taylor Heineke for number two. Although Jalen Hertz's QBR in the last six games is the highest in the NFL. I think I mentioned that yesterday. The Giants are in trouble here because Gettelman obviously put a lot of, his chips into the middle of the table on Daniel Jones. He said, I'm all in on Daniel Jones.

And it looks like right now, it looks like he might be wrong about Daniel Jones. He also went all in on Joe Judge. And right now, Joe Judge doesn't look like the right guy. I mean, Mr. Hardass, remember during the preseason? Oh, yeah. And, you know, and, I mean, look, they haven't had Sequin, Barkley healthy. it may be what we're seeing with Sequin Barkley is that he's never going to be healthy. He got hurt again last night.

Wasn't doing much to begin with. I do like Cadarius Tony a lot when he's got the ball in his hands, but there's something wrong with the Giants. And I say that, and they had just beaten the Raiders and the Panthers in two of their last three games and nearly beaten the Chiefs on Monday night at Arrowhead. But last night was a major stepback game. It was a red flag game, if you're a giant fan, like, my God, this guy isn't getting better.

It was one of the worst quarterback performances of the year. I was watching some of the Manning cast last night, Tommy. Have you watched, have you continued to watch it, or have you lost interest in Monday Night Football, or you don't care, either way? Well, I didn't watch last night's game. It had interest to me. But I've given up on the Manning cast because it's just not my style.

I like to watch the game. I don't like to watch people talking about the game. And this is really a generational thing, like we've discussed before. There's a generation of fans who like to watch people on Twitch talk about the game. So... What, people they don't even know? No, yeah, people that, you know, influencers, social media influences. That's the job you want these days.

You want to be a social media influencer. So, no, it's, look, there's a lot of people like it because they're used to people talking while they're watching a game. I like to watch the game. So, no, I'm not a big man and cast fan. I'm sure I'm in a minority on that. Yeah, it's like these people that record themselves on YouTube listening to a song for the first time. Like, I think they call it, you know, song reactions or whatever. Like, I get why it's kind of interesting.

but after a while you're like I don't even know who these people are like they claim to be music constructors or voice you know teachers or whatever I actually like the Manning cast now I watched it last night when the game got out of hand and I watched a lot of the second half I was just I mean it was really interesting

because Eli is living and dying every play I mean this is his team right and he you could tell he's really rooting for it I also just want to mention one thing about the two of them because I've watched enough of it Not every second of every Monday night game. They are not doing the Monday night game next week. There's no manning cast for the Washington-Seattle game.

But I think Eli is the better analyst. And what's really interesting, and maybe it was because it was the Giants last night, and Eli really knows the Giants. But I felt like Peyton was consistently defecutive, referring to Eli's analysis of plays. Eli is very subtly to very good sense of humor, a very dry sense of humor that equals, if not exceeds Patens.

I don't know if anybody else is seeing this or hearing this, and I have no idea if there have been any comments. I just wanted to tell you that it occurred to me watching a lot of it last night. Eli's better at analyzing the game, and Eli actually has a better sense of humor than Peyton. And maybe my perception of the two is not in line with everybody else's, but I think everybody else would have just assumed, well, Peyton's going to be the better analyst, and Peyton's, you know, look at all these commercials. He's going to be hysterical. I actually think Eli, and maybe it's because of the expectations of Eli, but I think Eli's

really good on this. Okay, good. But you're not going to watch. It doesn't do it. No, it doesn't do it for me. You know, people say, well, if a game's lousy, at least you want, you know, these guys make them more interesting. I say, if the game's lousy, I'm not going to watch the game. I'll go watch something else. Well, it's a talk show, Tommy. It's, you know, it's, do you like the people, you know, that are co-hosting together on this talk show while a game's going on in the background? Now, they're talking about the game. Listen, they're analyzing the game. There's one talk show I like.

Okay. And that's this one. Okay. Right here. Why don't we, you know what we should do? Oh, my God. Why haven't we thought about this before? Why don't we do a live YouTube, you know, watching the game?

Are we allowed to do that? I don't know if we're allowed to do that. I don't think we can. I don't think we don't own the rights to the broadcast so we couldn't do it. Now, we could certainly YouTube ourselves watching the game, but no one's going to do that that's interested in the game. They'd want to see the game simultaneously, and I don't think legally we could do that. No, I don't think we can either.

Can we make a plan to do that at some point? That would be actually kind of fun. I think there are some people that would be interested. The problem is, again, you can't show the game. So I guess that's a bad idea. I wanted to mention the Wizards real quickly, and then you can get to the story that you had. So the Wizards lost last night, 109, 103 to Charlotte. There were a couple of things about this game that really stood out.

Number one was that I really felt like the wizards struggled to guard, especially end to second quarter into third quarter, and Lamello Ball is a special, special player, and he's going to be great. There is no doubt in my mind that Lamello Ball, I mean, for those of you who haven't seen Lamello Ball yet, he is 6-7. He's 6-7.

Now, he's pencil-thin. When he gets stronger, he's 19 or 20 years old. When he gets stronger in a couple of years, he is a superstar in the making. It's impossible to stay in front of him. He's got everything. I mean, he's got a handle. He's got a floater. He's got to improve his shooting, definitely.

I can see that. He's got incredible basketball IQ, great vision. what a player he is. Rozier last night shot lights out, and it was their back court that really won the game for him. And I didn't think the Wizards guarded very well for portions of that game. Number two, do you know what the final overall rebound numbers of this game last night, Tommy, were the rebound numbers? I think I read that the Wizards out rebounded by 25, something like that.

77 to 41 to 46. Oh, my God. A 31 rebound advantage. Chase Hughes tweeted something out because somebody sent this to me. Hold on. I'm going to find it. How do you lose a game like that? The Wizard's 77 rebounds were the most in the game since 1970 for them.

So, well, here's how you lose. By the way, not only did they outrebound them by 31. Charlotte missed 10 free throws. So yeah, it's like, how did they lose the game? Well, they lost the game because they shot 38.7% from the floor and 9 of 36 from behind the arc, and Charlotte was 15 to 31 from behind the arc. That's a big part of it.

And the other part of it is Washington once again had issues with turnovers. They're committing the fifth most turnovers per game right now in the NBA. They had 18 turnovers. last night. By the way, the rebound number, 10 miss free throws, there's 10 easy rebounds, right? So if a team's going to shoot really poorly from the free throw line, that's going to help your rebound total. And they really got after it on the offensive glass. And by the way, Montrez-Harrell last night was a monster. 24 points, 18 rebounds on 10 of 13 from the floor in just 27 minutes. That was the other tweet that I wanted to read. It came from Chris Miller. Montres-Harrell is the first player

since the ABA NBA NBA merger. You know what year that was, Tommy? 1976. Very good. Montres Harrell was the first player since the ABA NBA NBA merger with at least 24 points and 18 rebounds in 27 minutes or fewer off the bench. I had Glenn Consor on the radio show this morning, and I said, why isn't Montres Harrell playing more?

The production in 27 minutes a night, which is right around the average, it might be 28 or 29, but it's within a minute or two of the average for him this year. He said, yeah, I don't know. But we sort of figured this out together. It may be the sweet spot for him. You know, he's such an outrageously energetic player that maybe he can't go 35, 36 minutes a night. You know, maybe Wes Unsell Jr. found the sweet spot for him. Next thing about this game, West Sunsel Jr. after the game said I got out-coached.

I think he was just throwing himself into the mix of taking the blame for the loss. Personally, I don't know where he would have specifically thought that he was out-coached. I don't think the Wizards run great zone offense, and I think their defense lapsed at times last night. But I didn't think that he got out-coached. By the way, can you name Charlotte's head coach? No. I can't. Yeah.

James Perego is the head coach. I didn't know it either until last week when they played him. I ended up getting quizzed this morning on NBA coaches. And basically the net of it is, I don't know, I didn't know about a third of the NBA coaches. I mean, seriously, it's impossible. You might as well quiz me on MSMLS coaches. Right, exactly. But I love the NBA, but still, it's hard to keep track of all the coaches.

changes. Spencer Dinwiddy needs to be better than he's been, and I love him as a player. And then real quickly, for those of you that watch the game, there was a controversial moment late in the game. The Wizards had cut the Charlotte lead to two. They were down by as many as nine, you know, midway through the quarter. They cut it to two late. Miles Bridges missed a lob slam dunk, and Harold had the ball briefly, but had it slapped out of his hands by, I think by ball. And they didn't, and they reset the entire shot clock rather than resetting it to 14 seconds as if it was a second offensive possession within the possession. I don't know what the rule is. I don't know how long you have to have possession for. The bottom line is they left Rozier open and he knocked down a three, and there was still 13 seconds left in the game when he took. the three. The last thing that I just wanted to mention, Tommy, the crowd last night like it was Saturday night. I didn't go to the game. A near sellout last night, 80% capacity. Saturday night was a

sellout, 20,600. The crowds for the Wizards Home Games for November have been incredible. Like just seeing the, and I asked Consor about this. Consor says, He's never, ever seen it like it's been the last couple of home games there. He compared it to growing up to New York and going to the garden. And I kind of said, come on, all right, enough. But it's been great and it's been absolutely coming through the television. It's really cool to see them drawing well, seeing a real home court advantage for their games. I know there were a lot of heat fans there on Saturday night.

I was told that by a friend of mine who was there. And we'll see that on various nights. But I love the fact that people have really very quickly, after 17 games, kind of looked at this team like, this team's pretty good and they're likable and they're going to get better. And they've got a different coach. I don't know. There's something going on down there with their home games. Now, they got 13 of the next 17 on the road.

But I love the crowd the last two home games. James. All right. I think you're right. I think you're right. I mean, this is a team that if I were so inclined, making the decision to go see or not go see, I go see them. If I get good seats, really good seats, and I get the parking. And I get the parking. And I get the parking. And I get the parking that I get. Will you come with me? I let you know who is God. I'm not stepping in that arena. And by the way, I have a story off the air to tell you about him. Okay. for whatever reason he doesn't. Because I know you won't let me tell it on here. No, I'm not going to because I actually really like him and he really likes me and I think he's really good.

Obviously, like we were talking about... You really need him. I don't need him at all. Okay. What do I need him for? Honestly. To get guests. Oh, come on.

You know better than that. Wizards guests don't move the needle in local sports talk radio. They might at some point down the road. It would be great. You know how much I'm rooting for that. that. All right. What's your wrestling story to finish up the show?

Well, it was all over social media last night on WWE Raw, the Seth Rawlins, who apparently is the WWE star. I've heard of them. I don't follow wrestling anymore, not like I used to. But as he was exiting the arena, a fan jumped over the railing and attacked him. I mean, really attacked him. I mean, tackled him, got on top of him, and looked like he was like having his way with him

before security, at least three security guards had to pull this fan off off of them. What's the guy's name? Seth Rowan's. It's the wrestler. I want to see the video. Yeah. Yeah, you should take a look at it because it's pretty wild.

Oh, wow. And I think people thought, people thought it was part of the show, I think, initially, because it was so demonstrative. It was, it wasn't just like this fan grabbing him. He tackled them, put him on the ground. And, you know, I mean, I thought, I thought somebody was going to count the three at one point. And, you know, give the fan the win. But here's what this reminded me of.

back in this guy really went after this dude I mean he he wasn't expecting it so right but wow

yeah back in the summer 68 and 69 when I was 14 and 15 my sister lived in Miami with her husband then and during the summers I used to go down

and spend the summer with her in Miami. It was great. I mean, I told you the story years ago about working at the Republican Convention for Nelson Rockerville. Right in 64. Yeah. Just because I was hanging around Miami Beach where the convention was. So my brother-law, who was a big guy, wasn't tall. He went about 5'10, weighed about 250, 260, former football player.

He took me to, he's taking me to wrestle matches. sometimes. So he took me to a match at Miami Beach Auditorium, and we had ringside seats, the front row seats he got for us. And I'm 14 years old, and my brother was pounding down the beers. I mean, he had to have at least a dozen beers by the time the main event came on. And the main event was Hans Mortier against, I'm not sure who it was. But at one point, when the two wrestlers hit each other at the same time, and then they both acted like they knocked each other out, and this Hans Mortier guy fell near the ring apron,

the end of the ring, like right pretty much in front of us. So McCrutherful jumps out of his chair, takes a penny, and slams it on the mat, next to this guy's head, and yells here, that's all the master's. which was worth. So, this guy rolls over like he got hit.

Well, the whole place thinks my brother-in-law is some kind of wrestler who just took a shot at this guy. Right. So,

all the fans are jumping on us, security's jumping on us. This wrestler's trying to get at him. And, I mean, I'm 14 years old. I think this is the greatest thing in a world.

I mean, he absolutely, coolest thing ever. And we wound up getting kicked out. We wound up getting arrested. but we wound up getting kicked out. And after the wreck, after he got kicked out, my brother-in-law was so pissed off.

He was hanging around the parking lot, waiting for him. He could catch this wrestler to come out because he was going to. Fortunately, was your brother-in-law capable of taking care of himself, or was he just hammered? A little bit of both. I mean, capable of taking care of himself against a professional wrestler? No. Taking care of himself against a guy in a bar, yeah. He was capable of that, but not against professional wrestler.

But, yeah, we got kicked out when I was 14 years old, and I thought I was the coolest kid in Miami. Speaking of wrestling and fighting and whether or not somebody's capable of taking care of himself, did you see the LeBron, Isaiah Stewart thing from Sunday night? Yes. You know, LeBron got suspended for the first time in his career, 19 years, first time he's been suspended. Isaiah Stewart got two games. So Sunday night, this thing was, I mean, my sons were sending me all the video of it. And really, for those that haven't seen it, basically LeBron James for the Lakers,

Isaiah Stewart for the Pistons, in a game Sunday night in Detroit. They are standing by each other side on a free throw attempt. They get a little bit tangled up. And LeBron, as Stewart's sort of pushing LeBron, LeBron takes his elbow and flicks it into Isaiah Stewart's, you know, uh, head area. I did not personally, and I still, every single time I watch it, I don't think it was really intended maliciously. I think they were entwined a little bit and LeBron had an elbow and I don't think he meant to hit him in the eye with it or hit him in the face with it, but he did. And, um, immediately LeBron shows some remorse. Um, but Isaiah Stewart loses

his mind, especially when the blood starts gushing from a, across, you know, in his general above the eye area where LeBron's elbow connected. And this guy had to be restrained, Tommy, four times minimum, where he was charging after LeBron, charging after him. I don't know what most people think. I'm surprised LeBron got suspended for a game. I'm not surprised that Isaiah Stewart got suspended. He kept escalating this thing over and over again.

They were both thrown out on the spot. LeBron got a flagrant too. which I think is warranted. I'm not a LeBron guy, as most of you know. I would love to have seen LeBron suspended. I didn't think he deserved suspension. I really didn't. I think in part, him being LeBron may have worked against him in this particular situation

because people, if they didn't suspend him, they would have said that's major preferential treatment. But this guy, Isaiah Stewart, they could not contain him. I mean, they had four, five, six dudes trying to hold him back. and even when he started to like walk towards the locker room like, I'm okay, I'm okay. Then he would turn when they let go of him and he started sprinting back after him. It's crazy, the scene there. Yeah, I saw that video. Listen, I want to just tell everybody, if you ever want to see an NBA fight for the ages,

Google Willis Reed, Rudy Larusa, and the Los Angeles Lakers. Really? Well, Willis Reed, it's black and white, and it's a little grainy, but Willis Reed went after the entire Lakers bench, not two guys out, and the rest of them ran away in fear. It's considered the greatest NBA fight in history in terms of a one-sided affair. I'm watching it right now. There goes Willis.

It's a little grainy because it's black and white. Yeah, Phil Jackson commenting on it. Who, who back in the day, God, there were, oh my God, Willis Reed is just, just busting people up. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. That's unbelievable. I don't think, and the Lakers, all of them are like, no, no, I don't want any part of this. No.

Oh, my. How many games did he get suspended for? I don't know. I don't know. This was early in his career. I tell you what, that's set the tone because nobody ever met him. with Willis after that. It wasn't the...

It wasn't the... Not even Wilts. Well, nobody used to mess with Wes Unseld either. That's true. Absolutely. I mean, he was really feared. And I can't remember Wes ever getting in a fight that is like legendary. I just remember people being scared shitless of Wes Unseld.

Yes, they were. The all-time punch, of course, is the Kermit Washington, Rudy. Johnovich. Right. That was a tragic situation. It really was. Yeah. Okay.

Are we done for the day or is there anything else that we need to discuss? I just want to remind people you could read my column in the Washington Times. Go to Washington Times. Go to Washington Times. com. Click on Sports. Read my column about the great November weekend for Washington Sports. You can find me on Twitter and Facebook.

I've retweeted it as well. So you can find it there. And it's a good column from Tommy. Happy Thanksgiving. Enjoy it with your family. You too. Happy Thanksgiving, buddy. All right.

We're done for the day. Back tomorrow with Clinton Portis. We'll be on to talk some football with us.