The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terps Buzzer Beaten + Commanders' Cash vs Cap Budget

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Kevin and Thom today with Michigan State's 60-foot buzzer-beater to soul-crush Maryland in College Park. The boys reacted to a few things Adam Peters said at the Indy Combine the other day including a remark he made comparing salary-cap space and an actual cash budget. Ted Leonsis follow up, Gene Hackman, and more as well.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. That one Tommy hurt last night. That was painful. And I had a seat in which when it left Trey Holloman's hands, I could see that it was online.

I could see two things. I could see that it was out before. the horn went off and I could see that it was online. Now that doesn't mean it's going to be in. It could be short or long, but it was definitely when it left his hands. It was tracking towards the thing.

I mean, it's not every day that you're at a game that gets decided by a 62-foot shot at the buzzer. But I was there with another 17,000 plus last night at X-Finity Center as Maryland goes down 58 to 55. Painful, painful loss. Did you watch it?

No, I did not watch it, but I knew something good did not happen when I saw you tweet F. Yeah, well, I wanted to actually just tweet F-U-C-K with exclamation points, but God, I'm going to tell you seriously, there was, this is a really good Maryland team. It really is. And this is a good Michigan State team, too. I mean, these are two legitimate upper tier teams. And it felt big last night. It felt big going into it.

It felt big, you know, being there. And I'm just sick of losing some of it. these games. And I talked about this on radio, and let me just mention the show's always presenting sponsor, is Windonation, 866 Windonation and Windonation.com if you need new windows. But I talked about something at the beginning of the show. And I, you know this about me that I have not really embraced over the years the move to the Big Ten. I've yearned for, I've been nostalgic over, I've missed very much being a part of what was a big part of my fan DNA, Maryland basketball and even Maryland football in the ACC

and the traditions and the history and the rivalries that came with it. And I feel differently now in year 11 about the Big Ten, in part because the ACC isn't the ACC anymore, you know? That's true. And it's just a completely different league. and, by the way, a much lesser league, both in football and basketball, than the Big Ten. But we still don't have a rival. And that's been a big missing piece of Maryland basketball.

You know, there's been a lot of debate, Tommy, and I don't know if you've really followed it, but Maryland fans are a part of it. You know, the Maryland fan base and the passion of the Maryland fan base has clearly changed. from where it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago, the Gary era, the ACC era. And there's so many reasons for that. You know, the conference move was a big part of it. There's no doubt about it. Somebody put out a video the other day of the season they had 15 years ago,

which, by the way, ended with a Michigan State buzzer beater, Corey Lucius, just soul-crushing, three-point, you know, three-pointer at the buzzer to end Maryland's season in the second round of the NCAA tournament. In fact, by the way, that was the last time Michigan State made a buzzer-beating shot to win a game. So in 15 years, they've got two of them, and they're both against Maryland. Of course, Maryland was in the ACC then. But, you know, somebody put out a video recently about 15 years ago, and they played, you know, they had a season that year in which they won the ACC regular season title.

Gravis Vasquez was the ACC player of the year. and they had a really good team. You know, it was part of, you know, Gary's, you know, incredible, you know, 20-year run, you know, really 18, 17 years of that just being a contender, you know, for most of those years. And like there was a game against Georgia Tech in early to mid-February. Place was absolutely packed on fire. And Cliff Tucker, God rest of soul, because he passed away a few years ago. hit an incredible three-pointer where they inbounded the ball with like 1.5 seconds left. He caught it, threw it up, it went in, place went nuts.

And people were saying, God, look, you know, look at what it was 15 years ago. That was Georgia Tech. You know, that wasn't Duke. That wasn't, you know, Carolina. That wasn't a game against UVA or NC State. That was a game against Georgia Tech. But Georgia Tech was a team we had history with, you know, over like a, a 30-year period.

So even when you got down to the mid-tier ACC programs, you still had something there. We've not developed anything in the Big Ten with anybody in the 11 years in basketball. I mean, football, of course, we're not going to, and this is a basketball first school.

Everybody understands that. And in 11 years, there's not really a rival. But the one team that we've had some big time battles with, some big stage games with, since arriving in the Big Ten, and by the way, prior to being in the Big Ten, Michigan State, you know, they are the program in the Big Ten. It's not Indiana. Indiana may have the Blue Blood kind of feel to the program, but since we've been in the Big Ten and probably years even before we got into the Big Ten, Michigan State is the standard.

You know, Tom Isso and Michigan State is the standard. in the Big Ten. They are the Duke or Carolina of the Big Ten. And Maryland's had some big time games with Michigan State over the years. And, you know, they've won the majority of them. Maryland is six and fourteen now against Michigan State since arriving in the Big Ten. They've played in the Big Ten semifinals twice in games that came down to the last shot. And a lot of their games have been decided like last night, like, you know, not necessarily buzzer, beaters, but very close games. And I just wanted to win that game last night. We had lost six in a row to Michigan State going into last night, and I really wanted that game, wanted to

beat them. It's the first time I felt that way about anybody in the Big Ten. I wanted to beat that team on that night last night. It would have felt really good to do it. And by the way, would have kept alive the hopes of a Big Ten regular season championship. They would have still been alive for it. For all intensive purposes, I think they were eliminated even mathematically last night from winning the Big Ten regular season title. And to lose it that way, that's one of the all-time endings at Xfinity Center or Cole Fieldhouse.

There have been buzzer beaters before, not from 62 feet. And Maryland had the last shot. That's a situation where you're either going to overtime or you're winning it in regulation. Crushing. Not season ending like they did it to us in 2010. 15 years ago, this coming March will be the Corey Lucius shot. The most devastating loss of Gary Williams' career. He has said it many times.

And probably top two for me in terms of top three of all-time devastating sports losses as a fan of teams. You know, Maryland and the Skins being my top two always have been. Unbelievable scene last night and just an unbelievable ending. A few things. First of all, I'm going to trot out one of my favorite sports things. And I think it applies to this if you really think about it. The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing.

Right? No. No? Would you rather had a blowout loss? I guess if I want this rivalry in Michigan State doesn't view Maryland as a rival. Nobody in the Big Ten views Maryland as a rival. Maryland's been a good team since they've arrived in the Big Ten. I mean, Turgeon, you know, I know there are a lot of Maryland fans that hate when I say this. He was the third winningest coach in the Big Ten during his tenure behind Izzo and Matt Painter.

but nobody views us as a rival. So I guess losing that way last night adds to the tradition in history that might be developing. Yeah, I mean, look, it was a quality loss as much as it can be. How is the crowd? Incredible. It was one of those nights. It was one of those nights. They've been few and far between.

You know that in recent years. Yes, they have. Yes, they have. Now, granted, winning would have felt like a huge monumental step, maybe, speaking of monumental. A huge monumental. Oh, you want to talk a monumental at some point. But the value of winning, I think, is kind of inflated and probably more important than the pain of losing. You know, Maryland was favored last night.

They were a four and a half point favorite to win the game. They were actually supposed to win that game. Michigan State's ranked higher, but Maryland has been one of the hottest teams in the country. So is Michigan State. They've been red hot. And that's what kind of created the stage for what was one of the bigger games of the Big Ten season. There have been a couple of them, and there are a couple games left. Michigan State closes with Michigan at the end of the year.

and that may be for the Big Ten regular season title. But, I mean, I know what you're saying. But, you know, God, man, Maryland fans, and I'm as big of one as anybody else listening, we have had over the years just some absolute crushing losses. Crushing losses. You know, it's – Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember when the Nats, like,

lost in game five to St. Louis in their first year in the postseason. They took a six to one lead early in the game. Yeah, the collapse and the feeling of that. And I remember saying to you at the time, or certainly you and I were doing the show together, and I said,

you know, it would have almost, it feels strange to say this, but it would have almost felt almost too premature if we hadn't earned it as a fan base, you know, with some heartbreak along the way before we eventually get through. You know, if the first year in the postseason,

you win a series, you go on, and you, you know, win it all, it would have been great. But, you know, the real longstanding baseball, you know, blue bloods, the Red Sox had all of those heartbreaks before they finally, you know, from 3-0 down, came back and beat the Yankees and went on to win the World Series in 2003 or 2004, one of those years. 2004. Yeah.

And Maryland, over the years, whether it was lefty, even Gary, Turgeon, and now Willard. It's one of those programs that I think basketball fans have always recognized to be a really good program. And at various points in time, top 10 kind of a program, top 15 kind of a program. But man, whether it was Carolina and Duke in the ACC or now Michigan State in the Big Ten, we've had some just crushing losses. There have been some great victories, clearly, along the way, and we've beaten Michigan State in some big games. But God, that one was tough last night.

I wanted to win that game. I wanted to keep the momentum going. They had a chance to win the Big Ten regular season title or share it. They had a chance to climb to maybe a three seed before all was said and done. And they lost on the 60s. two-foot shot. Let me just say, though, Michigan State was the better team last night. They actually deserved to win the game. But go ahead. What were you going to say? Now, you could conceivably play Michigan State two more times this season, right? Yeah. Yeah. Give them to me.

You played them in the Big Ten tournament. Yep. And you could possibly meet in the NCAA as well. I had Rayfell Davis from the Big Ten Network on with me today, and he said he thinks Michigan State Maryland are clearly in the big 10, the two teams that can go the furthest, and he thinks they're both final four contenders. He said he thinks we watched last night a matchup between two of the, you know, legitimate final four contenders out there. We'll see. I mean, there were a couple of things about the game last night that are concerning, but I also am still very bullish on what they have and what they can be and what they've been. Okay, coach, let me ask you this.

What did they do wrong last night? Anything? Last night's game, Tommy, was the opposite of what most people thought they were going to see. These were two of the better offensive teams. Maryland's had the best starting five in the country, you know, from a production standpoint, offensive production standpoint. And so, you know, the total in the game, I think, was 152. You know, they scored 113 games.

If you had the under, you were never in doubt. Yeah. So, you know, that happens a lot, man. When you're expecting one thing, you get another. I ought to create like a betting, you know, segment about kind of going opposite of what you expect to happen. I should do that one of these days. But last night, I think people were expecting, you know, 84, 82, something like that. And you didn't get that.

And you didn't get that because some people will say they watched a bad offensive game. I don't think that's what it was. I think first and foremost, it was outstanding defense. Michigan State's better, but Maryland's was damn good too for much of the night. Michigan State defensively, look, under Izzo for much of the time he's been there, they've always been tough, gritty. and he's got one of those teams. They play 10 players.

They have 3, 7 footers on the team. Their pick and roll defense last night was so good. Marilyn has had nothing but clean, open looks. They've got scores everywhere, shooters everywhere. They guarded the pick and roll on Gillespie in particular, brilliantly. They guarded the post with Reese and with Queen. They did a phenomenal job there. They rebounded exceptionally well.

Maryland got out rebounded by 12. They had 13 offensive rebounds. There was a key possession in the second half where they were at the free throw line after already an offensive rebound. Then they grabbed an offensive rebound off the missed free throw, and they scored. I thought Michigan State, and I saw that Izzo said this after the game.

He said, that may have been a lucky shot, but we deserve to win the game. And I agree with that. And as I was sitting there, you know, watching the game live, I was saying, and Kara came with me, and there were people sitting around us that I knew, I was saying, look, Michigan State's defense is hellacious. Like, this is a great test. Maryland has not been defended like that at any point this year.

Maryland's defense was excellent for much of the night as well. Let me ask you this, then. Yes. This was the biggest game Maryland played this year, right? Yeah, they've had some big games this year. But, yeah, when you get to late February and you're in the hunt for a Big Ten title, yeah, and you're playing the first place team. Yeah, biggest game of the year, definitely.

So that they play their best defensive game that you've seen this year? It was excellent. Michigan State Tommy shot 33.8% from the floor. 26.7% from behind the arc, and they won. Maryland shot 20% from behind the arc, 31.3% for the game, and they had the ball with a chance to win the game at the end of regulation before, you know. I know, but Maryland played their best defense of the year in the biggest game of the year. You already know they're a great scoring team.

They played excellent defensively. So, I mean, these are all things you should take away is feeling good about, you know, once you get past the dagger, you're pulling a dagger out of your heart. I'm not a moral victory person. You should know that about me at this point. I want to effing win the game. I don't want to be a second-tier, you know, even a second-tier team in the Big Ten. Okay, you know, we were that in the ACC, always chasing.

and looking up to Caroline and Duke, even though we were probably, well, we were, the third best program. I don't want to be that in the Big Ten. I don't want to be that. Last night would have been a massive win. Do I think any less about Maryland coming out of that game? I don't. Do I think, am I emboldened? Do I think, you know, even more about them? Not necessarily. I feel the same. I feel like they are a very explosive team that really got locked down last night for the first time all year. And I do think it'll help them. You know, Derek Queen had not been muscled around and guarded like that this year. He really hadn't. Maryland got, you know, they got beat up a little bit by 10 players. Maryland doesn't have a bench. Maryland got in a little

bit of foul trouble, which can kill them in the tournament. Although they've got five guys that can score, still, they lost Selt and Miguel for much of the first half. That didn't help. But do I feel good about the loss? I don't feel good about the loss. Do I feel any less about the team coming out of it? I don't.

Also, just one key thing about the end of the game, you know, Jacoby Gillespie definitely shot too early and too quickly, which gave Michigan. state the opportunity to, you know, rebound and heave one up from 62 feet. But I didn't have a problem with what he did. I would have preferred that he'd driven the ball. He had lived at the free throw line down the stretch that got him back into the game. And if he had driven the ball, you know, you really want to take the last shot and make sure that you either win it or go to overtime. But it was also basically the only open look, like clear open look he had all night. and he was in kind of rhythm and he's made that shot all year long.

So I didn't have, I can't kill him for that. I just, I can't. But yeah, one of those crazy nights, Tommy, you've been there when it's been great. And the students were there. It was a 630 start, but the place was pretty much packed five minutes into the game. And it was loud. You know, not as loud as it can get, because there weren't a lot of runs. It was kind of a grinded out game.

You know, with a lot of Maryland shot 26 free throws in the game. But, yeah, so there you go. What else? Did I talk you off the ledge or not? No, I want, what we've talked about with the skins in recent years, right? When they, you know, we went through a 25-year period. Maryland hasn't been through anything like what the skins went through. But I'll get to my point here.

And that is we kind of lost what goes with being a really good team and being a contending team. And the things that you lose like rivalries take a little bit out of you as a fan. I've said that for how many years now that Dallas and Philly and the Giants haven't viewed us as their arch rivals. we haven't had big rivalry games ever since Snyder took the team over. I mean, that's not true. We had games in the 2000s. Gibbs had some games.

You know, we had memorable games against the Cowboys and a few years. But for the last 10 years, Philly and Dallas have been the rivalry. You know, and so I'm glad that we may be on the verge of getting that back. But I think that I've kind of always thought if Maryland ends up with a rival in the Big Ten, it makes sense to me that it would be Michigan State.

They have a history of playing some memorable games, including when Maryland wasn't in the Big Ten, but they've played some memorable games against each other in the Big Ten. Izzo like Shoshchevsky and like Roy Williams and Dean Smith before him, he gets it. He's like, and he talked about it again last night, he said, Maryland, when that crowd is special, and it's been special a lot for Michigan State over the years

because they've played some important games. He knows how it feels to go into that place like it was last night and win. You know, Kay used to say it all the time. Something special about coming into this building, whether it was Cole or Xfinity, and silencing the fans and getting a win. So I would like to see a Maryland-Michigan State thing develop. But look, college sports.

have changed and, you know, UCLA and USC and Oregon and Washington are in the league that Maryland plays in now. So the chances for those things, you know, developing at this point are probably long gone with the portal and everything else. But no, you didn't talk me off the ledge. That one, that one stung. That one really stung. But they, and I'll tell you what, they play Penn State Saturday. Maryland has had trouble with Penn State on the road. Penn State wasn't very good this year for much of it until recently. They won two games in a row, and they had Indiana in trouble last night on the road. They lost the game, and they have to win out to even make the Big Ten tournament.

Tommy, not every Big Ten team now qualifies for the Big Ten tournament. The bottom three teams, they don't play in the Big Ten tournament, because you've got so many teams, you'd have to start the tournament like a week before. to play it out. So Penn State's still battling for the right to get into the Big Ten tournament. Maryland's got to go to Happy Valley, get a win. They won't drop that much in the rankings if they go there and win. And then next Wednesday night, they're at Michigan, and that'll be a big game.

Michigan State meantime, they've got a huge game against Wisconsin coming up. Big Ten basketball is great. You know, the Big Ten and the SEC. They're going to combine for about 23 NCAA tournament teams when the brackets come out two weeks from Sunday. And you start going through and trying to pick. Can't wait for that. All right.

What else on that? Anything else on that? Nothing else. I wish I had that kind of passion still for something. That's the team I have. have it for still. Yeah, I know. That's the one that still gets me.

I feel differently about the skins. I've mentioned that many times, but the passion for, especially this time of year when you get in and you've got a good team and you're playing big games, it's great. It's awesome. All right. We got so much to get to. I mean, Tommy was listened to the interviewer, some of it with Ted. It was rather long, wasn't it?

Yes, it was. We'll get to that. I think they're true the whole thing. We'll get to that. Adam Peters said something the other day that I want to get to. We got a lot to go. Gene Hackman passed away. We'll talk about that.

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late afternoon after Tommy and I did our show together. And I mentioned, I told everybody, and, you know, that you and I had gone down there and had lunch with Ted in the fall and that,

you know, he wanted to do, you know, more of this stuff. And, you know, he was very generous with his time. What did you think?

Yes. You told me that everybody wants to hear what Tommy thought of it. Well, actually, I had, on social media. Okay.

about that. You know, I can't wait to hear what Tom had to say about Kevin's interview with Ted, which I thought you did very well. Okay, but you didn't hear all of it yet, right? No, I say I heard about two-thirds of it. Because I think some of this stuff, and I, first of all, I did get something last night at the Maryland game. Somebody said, I was listening to your Ted interview coming into Xfinity Center last night. why didn't Tommy participate in the interview? Is it because Ted didn't want Tom to be a part of it? No, that's not it at all.

That is not it at all. I think we both just kind of decided that I would run this on one of the days where we don't do a show. And you're in Florida, and it would be a lot easier if you were in studio with me to do. do it. And I guess that's it, right? Look, it just, Ted had nothing to do with me not appearing. Right. You know, he would have been fine if I had been on there with you. I just felt that personally, there were all kinds of reasons, and one of which is I thought it would be better for the podcast if it was just a single one-on-one interview.

and it's your podcast. You know, I didn't want to muck everything up. Right. You know, and it wasn't going to be, it wasn't going to be the confrontation that everybody had hoped for either, because that would have basically kind of mucked up the podcast a little bit. So, no, there was no ulterior motive here. Ted would have been fine if I'd have been on, and it just worked out this way for a number of reasons. Yeah, let me just say, because that's interesting that you said that.

You don't do those after, and I didn't even know when the last time Ted was on. I guessed that it was when you and I were doing the show together, because I don't think I had them on after you and I stopped doing the radio show together. We didn't have them on regularly, but we had them on. And of course we did that lunch with a legend thing, which... Did a lunch with a legend with him, yeah. That's probably what, 12, 13 years ago? Every bit of it?

At least. At least. It's 2025, Kevin. I know. So, you know, you and I stopped doing the show together in 2016. So it was at least nine years ago, 10 years ago, and that he was on with us the last time. But you don't, I mean, Ted was very nice to invite us down for lunch. I think, you know, after the Potomac Yards debacle and the reaction to that, you know, I think that he would like to do more media.

Look, do I want Ted on this show every week? I don't. I mean, it was very nice what he did. I don't, you know, that's not the plan here is to have Ted on on a regular basis. but given that it had been at least nine, ten years since we had done something, and they had kind of reached out. And I told them, this isn't going to be a gotcha. I mean, I'm not going to do a gotcha in the first one. I mean, I asked him about, you know, how he felt about the reaction to Potomac Yards.

And one of the things, and I'm guessing that you didn't hear that part because I think it was towards the end of the interview. Yeah, I didn't get to that part. He tried to put it on Tony and Mike. Like that the reaction that Tony and Mike had was really what swayed people. And I said to him, I said, all due respect, it was a lot more than Tony and Mike. But I think, you know, however he wants to handle it is fine. You know, the bottom line is they're back where they should have been, you know. And he said, I was surprised and I wasn't surprised.

I don't think he was shocked at the response, but I think he was taken aback to a certain degree because the way he viewed it was we're just three miles away in Virginia. The football team plays in Landover. Remember? What? The Super City. The Super City, from Richmond to Boston.

Not to Boston, to Wilmington. To Wilmington. No, to Dover. Okay. That's it. Delaware. It was still going to be in the city. It was just going to be in Ted Super City. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll tell you, remember when we were down there, the artist that he did the exhibit for. Harry Benson. So we talked a lot about that. and yeah, I mean, we talked a lot about the wizards because, quite honestly, that's what I care about. I mean, we talked a lot about the Caps, a lot about Ovechkin and the chase. By the way, one of the things I learned was that the commissioner and Gretzky, he said, the plan is now in effect for when Ovechkin gets to within five goals of the record, Gretzky and the commissioner will be at every single one.

of his games. Yeah, I heard that. Five goals. He's not going to score six in a game to break the record or five to tie it. But they'll be there for that. That's when I started following McGuire and Sosa in person when McGuire got five home runs away from breaking Maris's record. That's when I started going on the road with them. Really? To basically cover them. Yeah. What was that like? That must have been unbelievable how many people... Oh, it's a lot of fun. Even though it turned out to be all phony, it was a lot of fun.

Yeah. You know? And St. Louis, you know, St. Louis was a great town to write about baseball. And not just for the fan base, but they had some great bars, great restaurants. You know, it's one of my favorite baseball towns, St. Louis. And we had some fun times while we were doing that. Well, St. Louis is a baseball town. Yes.

So I want... But some of the things... Go ahead. No, you go ahead. I noticed that when you brought up the All-Star game and the NBA All-Star game, and the issues with that, this was... priceless. Ted's first move was to talk about NBA Africa.

Okay. You know, I mean, and then, you know, it's pretty soon there's going to be an NBA league around the world. And all I could think of was that line in the paper where Michael Keaton is

screaming into the phone to the New York Times editor who turned him down from, who took the job away from that he wanted. and Michael Keaton is screaming in the phone, I don't live in the fucking world. I live in fucking New York City.

That's such a good movie. That is such a good movie. That's all I could think of. When Ted started chatting out the NBA, we are the world thing. Yeah. And then the other thing that you mentioned, which I thought was a very good question,

how is he dealing with the way the Wizards are playing? right now. How are you dealing with, you know, these losses? And immediately he went to the WNBA and his East Street, East sports team. Yeah, well, keep going, because I'm going to tell you the one kind of, I had one thought after, two things. I didn't get to, actually it was a question that you gave me, because I asked Tommy, I said, give me a couple of questions that you think makes sense, and Tommy's always helpful in that. And I did not get to, the buying of the nationals. I had it on the list, but the thing, I mean, let's mention Ted's answers are not short.

You know, Ted can go on for a while. So it ended up being an hour and 25 minutes. I actually edited back, I think, to like an hour and 15 minutes. But I, the one thing, because that was like halfway through. and I wanted to get back to Cooper Flag because I wanted to know whether I can't believe personally that they haven't penciled this thing out on what a Cooper Flag would mean to the organization. That would be an absolute home run. It doesn't matter if they win right away. He's going to draw and people are going to pay attention to the Wizards for the first time in a long time if they get the first pick and it's Cooper Flag.

But when he mentioned the e-sports thing, I have one regret from the conversation with him. Because I had written it in my notes. I'm like, if he brings up e-sports, I'm just going to say, Ted, look, I don't care about your esports team. And I don't think anybody else does. But, you know, he was on the role of, you know, trying to answer the way he felt about the Wizards. about how he fell. The pain of watching a team win nine or ten games a season and celebrate a victory over to Brooklyn Nets.

Yeah, okay, right. But overall, look, I like Ted, okay, and I respect Ted, and I thought it was an informative podcast. Okay. You know, the only thing I can say is he was willing to talk about anything. I think he always is. And, you know, truly, like, you don't typically get people to be that giving of their time. Like, that, I mean, we were, it was almost an hour and a half.

So I appreciate that very much. And his PR people, the new group that he's used, have been very nice and very easy to deal with. I want the Wizards to be at a good one day. The Ovechkin stuff was very good to open the podcast. A lot of the ovation stuff was good. I also think that, you know, sometimes I think that hockey people don't understand how random their sport actually is. But Ted knows. I mean, he said it.

You know, once you get there, anything can happen. Like, he's afraid winning the president's trophy will jinx their postseason. And, you know, the bottom lies, he even said. made reference to it, and I think I did too. Thank God for 2018, and them getting through and winning it. That was maybe the most honest thing. Yeah. The whole thing, and he's right.

It all would have been for naught without at least one Stanley Cup to show for it. That's right. So thank you, Ted. And Oveckin knew that. Yeah. Oh, Vectin's legacy. We'd be talking about the whole in his resume right now as he goes for record. No doubt. They didn't win a Stanley Cup. Oh, if he were, I mean, Tommy, that's a great point.

During this chase, there would be the discussion of, this is great, but this guy is more like, well, they're really good this year so that people would be pointing to potentially this coming postseason. But if he didn't have that cup in 2018, I mean, he'd be Charles Barkley. He'd be Patrick Ewing. You know, he'd be all the guys that were great. that didn't win it. Okay. I wanted to mention something that Adam Peters said the other day to J.P. Finley, actually, because remember, he didn't say anything on the podium, you know, during that press conference.

So, and I think it was JP. It could have been part of his scrum, but JP asked him the question. He was asking essentially about, you know, you've got all this cap space, how you treat you. read it. He said something specific to cap space. He said, you know, you read about available cap space. Sometimes it's a bit misleading. I'm paraphrasing here. Sometimes it's a bit misleading in terms of the internet cap space. He said, and for us, it's more about cash budget, not cap budget. And I thought that, I thought it was interesting. Why did you think it was interesting. Well, for the same reason, we've talked about last year. You know, it doesn't mean that they

have all this money laying around. They have financial commitments to players, and it's sort of like what we talked about last year. Well, why it was interesting to me is do they have a budget in which ownership is saying, yeah, I understand we could spend this much, but we don't have it to spend it right now. The Snyder stuff, if that's what you're... Yeah. You do agree that that's foolhardy right now. What is? That kind of attitude.

They're in strike now mode. I think they should be. They should be. Strike now mode. Yes. If you got to go find a couple of morons on the street to invest some more money in your team, go ahead and do it. But you need to come up with the cash to capitalize on being in the NFC championship game. Here's the thing, though, Tommy.

And we talked about this, I think when you were referring to it, it was the Snyder last few years when they really were a bit cash strapped, believe it or not. because of how poorly the revenue stream had become. When you have, you know, the second or third, whatever the internet says, you know, spot rack and over the cap, whatever site you guys used to track salary cap numbers, Washington's got somewhere between the second and the fourth most available cap space. They also have, and this was the second thing that he said that I thought was interesting, because I said to you the other day, you know, they only have two receivers under contract. They only have two defensive tackles if they move on from John Allen under contract.

And he said, we have the second fewest players under contract in the league. I went and looked it up. They basically have 46 players under contract. You take 90 to camp. That means 44 players. They got to go out and add to their roster between now and OTAs or now in minicamp, certainly now in training camp. Now, of those 46, there's really like,

29 or 30 that you'd actually put on a depth chart that they aren't making the league minimum. They're not guys that have been floating around practice squads, et cetera. And when you do the math on how they have to fill out this roster and the cap space, you start signing that many players to sizable deals. The cash outlay is tough for anybody. You know, if you end up with, you know, remember last year, they were all with the exception of three or four deals. They were all one-year deals. And the amount of guaranteed money, even in aggregate, wasn't overwhelming.

But this year, if they're going for it, and they end up trying to lock guys into three, four, five-year deals, including, by the way, Terry McLaren, who they have to extend here. They can't let him play next year in the final year of his deal. and you got 44 roster spots to fill. And remember, a lot of that money when you sign contracts, I think you've got kind of two years to pay it out, but not the actual signing bonus piece, but the guaranteed piece, maybe up to two years,

it's a lot of cash you've got to come up with. Yeah. So the takeaway from what he said was, A lot of cash to fill out their roster with the cap space and with the number of contracts that they have to go out and add. And then the second part is this is going to be a very busy few months, man. They got at least 44 players to add. Now, seven or eight of them roughly are going to be through the draft. But, yeah, they're going to be busy here over the next few months.

You can't show up to camp with 60 players. Yeah, we just, there were only a few players out there we liked. And they've got... I'm surprised Snyder never tried that. Yeah. What did you think of that report card that came out from the NFL Players Association? Well, that's very good news. Like Josh Harris said, I'm not an F-minus guy.

No, he isn't. He did say that, right? Last year? I guess he proved it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think basically the only thing that held them back from getting high marks across the board is their physical facilities. Yeah. And they can't do much about that until the stadium deal is set on its way. You know, the practice facility is limited. the stadium has its limits. But in terms of treating family, well, they made a big jump in that, and I think that's important. And they made, you know, the coach, Dan Quinn, basically the impact he had showed up in that report card.

So that's all good news. You know, I do believe I think that it's important. to treat employees well. Okay? If they're not good employees, then you've got the wrong employees. But if you have good employees, you need to treat them well. Yeah, that's... I think that makes a lot of sense,

especially the employees that show up to work every day. Who put everyone in danger with their bravado. Yeah. I think that the biggest takeaway from that is that Dan Quinn was essentially ranked first in the NFL as a head coach. Yeah. This is, you know, 1,600 players kind of weighing in on this. And, I mean, I think Dan Quinn is highly respected. I think we knew that when they hired him.

But, I mean, number one on the list, A-plus, that's a big deal. It's actually a really big deal. You know, you combine that with the way people feel about the organization's ownership now, and you do become a place that people aren't holding their nose, taking the money to come to. You know, they actually want to be a part of it. Now, I think the biggest driver of all this is the fact that you're going to have a chance to play for a contender because of the quarterback.

That's a big part of it. Yeah. All right. What else? We got, you know, a couple of other things. Did you have anything else skins related? I don't believe so. Tommy wrote a good column.

It was kind of what we discussed the other day, but, you know, talking about the, you know, the Eagles and the Chase and Miles Garrett being out there. By the way, I think it was Darius Slay said, I guess, last week I missed this, that he believes the Rams are the biggest contender in the NFC as long as Stafford stays there?

I think it was Darius Slay. I could be wrong about that. Somebody in the Eagles secondary said it. It may have been Gardner Johnson, but I don't think the Rams, even with Stafford, are the biggest contender. I think that Detroit and Washington are probably number one, number two

in terms of, contenders behind Philly in the NFC. The Rams don't even know who their quarterback is going to be necessarily. I know. A lot of speculation that Matt Stafford may be leaving. It's more than speculation. It's crazy. I still don't believe it will happen, but it could be wrong.

He's still playing at a high level. He is. There's no doubt about it. And he played at a high level in the playoffs. And they were the closest to beating the Eagles. We weren't. They were. They had the ball down at the Eagles.

20-yard line with a chance to win the game at the end in a driving snowstorm. I did look at something as it related to Matt Stafford's season. He actually had some rough games towards the end of the season. They won the games, but they were more defensive, low-scoring battles against some bad teams like the Jets and the Cardinals and the 49ers who were banged up. And I thought about, like, if they actually do trade him and they move on from him, him, they have to think that he's on the verge of falling off the cliff. Yeah.

And also what value they could get for at this point. Let me project this a little bit, and you'll love this. Sean McVeigh. Sean McVeigh, yep. He knows Kirk Cousins, right? Oh, my God. Yeah, he coached Kirk Cousins. Okay.

Well, there you go. I mean, you know, everyone expects cousins to be traded at some point. He finally might get hooked up with somebody from that Washington coaching staff who really valued him when he was there. If they move on from Matt Stafford, my prediction is Aaron Rogers. I think... Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah. That would be my prediction. and I think that would be the best move.

And look, I'm a Cousins guy. I think Cousins, I think there's some serious physical limitations. I think he got hurt last year. There was an ankle injury. There was a shoulder. And he really, now, I don't know what an offseason will do. I don't know how much, you know, the Achilles thing plays into it. but if I were a Rams fan, I would A, be absolutely nuts about the idea that Matt Stafford's leaving.

Like, I don't get it. I want Matt Stafford back. We can win the division title. We can be in the postseason again. I want Stafford back. But if, for whatever reason, they move on from Stafford, I would want Rogers. I think Rogers, in an organization that isn't the Jets with, a Sean McVeigh as coach, I think he'd be perfect for that system.

I said it all season long. Aaron Rogers did not play poorly. There were other issues with Aaron Rogers. Clearly, leadership, all of that stuff, the side show stuff. But if you're them, I could see Aaron Rogers playing well in L.A. for Sean next year in that offense. That would be my choice. a guy like Kirk.

But I, you know, I don't know what kind of condition Kirk's going to be in. I still just can't, I can't wrap my arms around the Stafford thing. Clearly there is an issue between the player and the organization that they went through last summer. That's what's essentially being said, is that there may have been some bridges burned in getting the contract restructured last summer. So we'll see. All right.

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One of the things I can't wait to get to when I get back home from Florida. And, you know, it's a cigar bar. I mean, it's got lots more going for it, you know, great menu of food, great menu of drinks. But its primary purpose is a cigar lounge. and Shelly's takes great care to have the best cigars that you can possibly buy on hand for sale. Because you want a good cigar, and when you have a good cigar, you want to take care of it. So if you are, consider yourself a cigar aficionado, and you want to make Shelly's your home away from home, you're going to need a humidor. Well, lucky for you, Shelly's has over 200 humidors available for annual lease.

They're on the walls of both dining rooms. They provide easy access to your cigars, and they preserve them. You know, cigars, a good cigar is delicately made and requires delicacy in order to care for them, a certain amount of temperature, you know, certain, you know, not a lot of light, you know. And shelley's will preserve them in their humidors, so they will be at your peak when you care to smoke them. You can find out more and get a lease from Shelley's. by going online at shelley's backroom.com. Forget about the crowds, the size of the school,

the fancy uniforms, and remember what got you here. Focus on the fundamentals that we've gone over time and time again. And most important, don't get caught up thinking about winning or losing this game. If you put your effort in concentration into playing to your potential, to be the best that you can be, I don't care what the scoreboard says At the end of the game, in my book, we're going to be winners. Gene Hackman in the movie Hoosiers

from all the way back in 1986 as coach Norman Dale in that sports movie classic. So he passed away with his wife and his dog as of the recording of this podcast. There is no cause of death. The only thing they have said is that, that there's no foul play, and apparently they've had, you know, gas people out there to see if perhaps it was carbon monoxide, and that has not been reported yet. Can I just tell you that my first reaction to this when reading it was, that's really sad, but I had no idea Gene Hackman was 95 years old.

No idea. Did you? I knew he was pretty old. I knew he was old. Didn't know he was 95. I guess I would have guessed he's like in his early 80s. And this is going to get messy, you know, because I don't think something like this. It's just going to get messy.

TMZ is reporting that the body of his wife was already decomposing when they were found. Oh, boy. I had not seen that. Yes. So this is just going to get messy. Well, wait a minute. Why would there being, why have they said no foul play expected then? Well, that doesn't necessarily mean somebody killed her.

Right. You know, there's all kinds of bizarre reasons that 95 years old could have for not just, you know, stopping, stepping over the body that was in the way of going to the bathroom or something like that. I don't know. Oh, my God. You mean like he just lived in the house with her for a few weeks? and didn't know what was going on? I hope we both get to be 95.

I do too. I do too. But I'll tell you what, I would imagine that there would have been a few indications that she had passed away, like a smell. Yeah. But maybe at 95 you lose that sense.

This is not a professional way to talk about this right now. No, we should be talking about. about his work. Yes, which was spectacular. By the way, where does Hoosiers rank for you on sports movies? Well, I see, first of all, let me make it clear. I put boxing movies in a category by themselves. You don't call them sports movies?

There's so many great boxing movies. Right. That if you include them in the sports movies, the boxing films are going to dominate. Right. Okay. So non-boxing movies, I would put Hoosier's. right at the top. I loved Hoosiers.

And you know what? He didn't like it. Yeah, I think I remember. He hated his performance. He thought it was going to bomb. Barbara Hershey. She was in something recently. She's older.

Yeah. So tell me, I mean, I have some favorite Gene Hackman movies. I'm going to guess that the French connection is number one for you. No. No. No, it's not even top three for me.

All right. I've got Hoosiers. Yep. I've got Mississippi Burning. Loved it. No, I have Hoosiers. I have unforgiven my second best. And then Mississippi Burning number three.

He was great. With an honorable mention to his brief appearance in Young Frankenstein. Oh, wow. That was a long time ago. A young Terry Gar, I believe, was in that movie. Am I right about that? Yeah. Yeah.

He played the old blind man in the woods who invites the Frankenstein monster in. And he was brilliant in that. That was just so funny. But the monster is running away from him after he gets discovered. And Gene Hackman says, where are you going? I was going to make espresso. I remember the movie, young Frankenstein, but not to that level of detail. I mean, I was younger, but Hoosiers, I loved Hoosiers.

Mississippi Burning, he was great in, and he was phenomenal in no way out, which I've always felt is an underrated movie with Kevin Costner and Hackman. Yes, it's very good. It's very good. Absolute power. absolute power was great with Clint Eastwood he was great in the firm I you know that's when I was there and saw them filming it at the Grand Hyatt and Grand Cayman he was he was down there filming the movie I guess he was like in his 60s at that point

70s in that point get shorty get shorty was terrific and get shorty but those are my top three unforgiven it was just phenomenal he was just amazing in that. He was a great actor. Yes. Yes, he was. He was a great actor. He used to be roommates with Dustin Hoffman when they were both like early in their acting careers in New York. I can't think of anything else. I particularly remember about Gene Hage. He was a Marine. Yeah, I knew that. I remember. I've

seen pictures today of him as a Marine in the Marine Corps, which by the way, at 9th. years old, okay, he had to be in the Marine Corps. 95 means he was born in 1930, so, yeah, the war would have been over. The war would have been over. Korea. Korea would have been there for Korea, 50 to 53, yeah? Yeah. Did he fight in Korea?

He was a great actor. Did he fight in Korea? I don't know. I don't know if he did. here let me see I'm interested in that he left home okay he left home at age 16

lied about his age to enlist in the United States Marine Corps so that's 1946 sir four and a half years is a field radio operator hackman was stationed in China when the communist revolution conquered the mainland in 1949

he was assigned Hawaii in Japan following his discharge in 1951 hackman moved to New York City had several jobs Okay. His mother died in... He wasn't there for Korea. No.

He was of age to be in Korea, but he was stationed in China. His mother died in 1962 as a result of a fire she accidentally started while smoking. Oof. Okay. You think this is... Don't hear that anymore as a cause of death. Smoking in bed. You used to hear it all the time.

I think we've had this conversation before, but I'm telling you that when I was a kid, I felt like fire engines were rolling through the neighborhood at least two to three times a week, and that we were on our bikes chasing down where the fire engines would go, and it was some house that had a fire. And I would guess that most of those fires were started by cigarettes. And back then, no smoke detectors and so many more. people smoked. Yes.

And fell asleep smoking. So how do you think this thing's going to play out, Mr. Messi? Well, I don't play that game. I'm not, I don't deal with vulture. I'm not in the vulture culture. Well, then why did you even bring it up? Well, I just happened to mention it to try to add something besides my best three films to the conversation, the latest I read.

I mean, we know. it's true if TMZ has it. I mean, seriously. They seem to be right a lot for being vultures. They are definitely right all. I don't think they're right a lot. I think they're right all the time. God, you know,

maybe one of the most incredible TMZ gets is they got Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash before anybody had it. That he was on that helicopter. You're willing to pay for news. it greases the wheels a little bit. Any credible organization, most credible organizations, wouldn't pay for news,

wouldn't pay a photographer, a paramedic for photos. Although, to be honest with you, when, you know, I once covered a big flood, the aftermath of a big flood, Shady Side, Ohio. It was a flash flood where 33 people were killed. Why were you covering a flash flood in Ohio? Well, because it became a national story. I was working at the Baltimore Sun at the time,

and they sent me out there to write about it. Every newspaper from the country was out there. It was a big story at the point. It was the early 90s. And me, and they weren't letting you into the part of the town where the most damage was done. You know, they were keeping reporters out of that. So me and a reporter from the Cleveland Plain dealer

paid a volunteer fireman 20 bucks to take us in his truck behind the scene so we could see the car page. Oh, my God. Wow. And what I remember from that is I remember a horse buried upside down in mud with its legs sticking up. Oh, my God. That's sad.

Yeah. So I guess I can't say, you won't there's I guess there was one time where I did pay um all right

yeah I'm reading through a lot of these TMZ stories now on this you know what I think Tommy what I think this is going to get messy anything else

you don't miss anything do you no anything else anything else I I turned in my farewell performance last night Like Kenny D's. Okay.

And you want me to play it. And you want me to play it on the way out of the show. Well, it's the farewell. This is it. You know? We're not coming back here next year. Oh, you're not? Why not?

No, we're too many cold days. We're going south. You're going south. You're going south straight into the Gulf of America. That's where you're going. There you go. What do you mean? So you're going to go to South Florida instead instead of the West Coast, the Panhandle?

Yeah, we're looking at Cocoa Beach for next year. Okay. I'm going to Florida in a couple weeks. I mean, I have a lot of experience in Cocoa Beach. I've spent a lot of spring trainings there. And there are karaoke opportunities in Coco Beach as well. Right. But that will be my last performance at Kenny D's, where I made my bones, where I built my career.

That's Tommy Purified. All right. So stay tuned. Tommy sent me his farewell performance. It's a beauty. Play some of it on the way back. All right, I'll talk to you on Tuesday. I'm back tomorrow.

See you, Tommy. See you, boss.