The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terps Eliminated; What's Next

Episode Date: March 23, 2021

Kevin, Thom, and Scott Van Pelt today on the show. Kevin and Thom talked a little NFL, NFC East to start. Kevin recapped Maryland's NCAA Tournament loss to Alabama last night. Then it was Kevin and Scott off of the Terps' exit talking about the team and what's next including a discussion about the future for Mark Turgeon at Maryland.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, the podcast today is brought you by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin, DC, to secure a deposit bonus up to $1,000.

Make sure you use my promo code so they know that I hooked you up. That's promo code Kevin DC at MyBooky.ag to claim that first deposit bonus. mentioned this before. You may already have a spot in which you're betting, either legally or illegally, but you should have another one, especially if they're going to give you free money, and MyBooky will do that. Live in-game betting, prop bets, fair lines, points spreads, etc. MyBooky.orgie.org, bet anything, anytime, anywhere with MyBooky. Use my promo code. Kevin, D.C. All right, today's show is going to be primarily about the Maryland basketball team. and Mark Turgeon. Tommy is with me.

I know that you want to talk about Elgin Baylor passing away, as do I. We will get to that. I'm going to start the show real quickly with just some Washington football news. Ryan Anderson signed a one-year contract with the New York football giants, and he got just $137,000 guaranteed in the deal. And I just, you know, I think about Ryan Anderson and I just will tell you that one of the things I remember talking to somebody in the organization about was Ryan Anderson and how tough of a guy, how good of a teammate he is, and how hard he works and plays. With that said, they never got a whole hell of a lot out of Ryan Anderson. And it's another second round pick, Tommy.

Listen to the second round picks, okay? because last year they didn't have one. And the year before that, they traded, remember their second for the following year, to go up and get Montez Sweat in the first round. Their last second round selection was Darius Geis. Before that it was Ryan Anderson. Before that it was Sue Cravence. That is not a good track record of second round picks.

If you miss three straight years on a second round pick, and remember, they were picking fairly high, not with Darius. because they had traded back. But you've got to hit on second round picks. And I thought Ryan Anderson was okay, but he certainly wasn't an impact player, even though I thought he had a decent end of 2019. But the Giants are going to give him a chance.

The Giants also signed to Dory Jackson, one of the guys I've been talking about, that I would have loved to have seen Washington think about. He would have given them another corner and also a real dynamic. punt returner as well, and the Giants signed him to a three-year $39 million year. And I will just mention, because I mentioned this to Cooley, and we'll start here and then we will move to Maryland basketball. You know, Tommy, all the reaction that you've been critical of in terms of the

free agency signings last week and what that will mean and whether or not this team is really on its way to being a contender, I think getting overlooked in the NFC or the New York football giants, I think that they actually have a chance to make a huge, huge jump and improvement. Let's also keep in mind, Washington was swept by New York last year. That's right. You know, the one thing that Washington fans would say, and again, I don't really know, based on his reputation, how valid this is or not, but they have Jason Garrett, still if their offensive coordinator,

and that usually brings up a lot of jokes based on what he did in Dallas, you know, some competitive teams, but, you know, I just don't know if the giant, I mean, the whole thing that the Giants comes down to, how are they going to develop Daniel Jones, the whole thing, you know? I mean, everything about what they're doing this year is, it seems to be all about pretty much helping Daniel Jones. And, I mean, you're going to see a lot of him putting that ball in the air next year. Giants will be a passing team, you know, and...

No, you're exactly right. It's exactly what Denver tried to do last year when they drafted Jerry Judy and they added KJ Hamler and Melvin Gordon, you know, to what they already had in Cortland Sutton and some of the other guys to try to find out for sure about Drew Locke. I remember it was something that I advocated Washington do last year, but they didn't have the means to do it. You know, they didn't really have the dry powder to do it. New York has added Kenny Goliday, John Ross, Kyle Rudolph, they picked up as a tight end.

And really the most important thing about the Giants next year is they've got Seekoine Barclay coming back. And they didn't have Seekwon Berkeley last year. And he was, you know, he is probably pound for pound, the best football player on the team. They have defensive talent. They just added another player and Adory Jackson to their team. They added the guy from Minnesota as well, Odin Bigo, as well at linebackers. So they are, you know, this division to just sort of say Washington should be the favorite, well, that's not true.

Or Washington in your mind is the favorite. It's not by a lot. Like I think Dallas, Washington, and the Giants, to me, I don't get anybody that really is in love with Philadelphia. They've got talent defensively, but they've got the biggest question mark, maybe even more so than Daniel Jones, at quarterback. You know, with Jaylon Hurts. They have a new coach. And a new coach. Right.

And remember last year, Philly was the only team that didn't have a new coach, and they had a terrible year. So, you know, you don't even know what... I'm with you. I'm with you on the Giants. I think they could be, you know, depends on how Barclay comes back. I think Barclay is arguably maybe except for Zeal Eel Elliott, and I don't know about his status these days. Barkley may be the best offensive player in the NFC East when he's healthy.

Yes, definitely. Zeke, Cooper, Barkley, definitely. And I'm, you know, I think Ghaladay is really, really good. So, yeah, look, the NFC East going in is a very competitive division on paper. I would favor Dallas. I would make Washington because of its defense in the addition of Ryan Fitzpatrick. I know you scoff at that a little bit as the second pick. And I would make the Giants a very close to second third pick. But nothing. ever surprises us about the NFC East results. They never seem to play out the way, you know, the preseason prognosticators think they will. And Philadelphia still has talent on defense with Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham and Derek Barnett. You know, they had a bunch of injuries. They remember they added Darius Slay last year. They added Anthony Harris this year, the safety from Minnesota. The issue with them is do they have the answer at quarterback? You know,

it's sort of like the giant situation. And I guess to a certain degree, the Washington situation. You know, it's very possible that Ryan Fitzpatrick, who's had two of his best years of his career and has played the best football of his career over the last two years, at 39 years old is going to fall off a cliff and all of a sudden become not very good. So, you know, Dallas has the most stable position right now at quarterback. They have the most stability at quarterback. And, you know, even Dak Prescott has.

doesn't really want anything, but I do think he's a good quarterback. He's coming back from an injury too. He's coming back from a big injury as well. Yeah. So we don't know how these guys always respond when they come back from injuries. It sounds like the division games on the schedule next year are going to be the most important games. Yeah.

I mean, you know, it sounds like you can't afford to get swept by the Giants again. Can't happen. Yeah. The thing about that, Tommy, though, you know, starting next year, they play 17 games, and only six will be division games. So the other 11 are really going to tell the tale probably more so than the six you play in the division. I mean, you know, not from a tiebreaker standpoint if you end up in that, but you got to do pretty well in the other 11 as well. And Washington's other 11, you know, on paper going in aren't going to be very easy. but that could change. Anyway, they're really, to be honest with you, other than that news out of New York,

hasn't, it's been a pretty slow football week unless you count the Deshawn Watson story, which continues to elevate to a level that's quite incredible. But a 14th lawsuit was filed this morning against Deshawn Watson. And apparently she claims he is a serial predator. This is a crazy story. I don't even know what to say. It really is now. Yeah, I don't even know what to say. Yeah, go ahead.

It's a pro, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, but, you know, look, I, you know, nobody's, nobody's, nobody's actually accused him of slipping, um, you know, Spanish fly or whatever it's called into drinks and then getting raped. Nobody's accused him of that. But the numbers, but, but the numbers are, are, are, are, are, are, are, uh, and the numbers. And the numbers is what has to give you significant pause. You know, I suggested last week that, you know, there may be some chicanery involved in something like this,

but you can't get this many women. You can't get this many people to take part in a conspiracy. And they say the number could grow to 22. You know, so, I mean, you've got to wonder at some point if there's criminal. charges that are going to surface out of all this. It's difficult to believe that they won't because if you're filing civil suit, you know somebody files a criminal charge against them, that's only going to solidify your case. So I'm sure the lawyer for this is pushing the Houston police to file some charges. I mean, is this going to take him out of the mix?

I've read that there's a couple of teams that would trade for Deshaun Watson tomorrow. Lawsuits or no lawsuits. Well, let me answer that question first. You would have to absolutely have an absolute feel to go to your owner, absolute definitive understanding of what this is before you would go to your owner to say we're giving up two first, two seconds, and two of our best players to trade for Deshawn Watson. How are you going to do that?

I've been reading about Watson. We've talked to, you know, this DA and Houston. We've talked to these lawyers. This is what's going on down there. All of this stuff is going to be dismissed in the next 30 days. We have the utmost of confidence of that. You'd have to know that. You know, you and I both talked about how Washington got very lucky on Ruben

Foster because they didn't do the proper due diligence, but as it turns out, they were proven correct because all of those charges were dropped, you know, and so they- Ruth had his Tampa connections to let him know that the charges in Tampa were not going to be pursued, and then there was nothing to stop them after that. Right. So I think the other thing you said is that, It reminded me so much of reading the Post story in July about the culture with the Washington football team. I remember thinking, this isn't one or two people that are claiming this.

These are 15 initially, right? It was 15. And then it grew to 41 or 42. And it's just, to me, the commonsensical answer would be, look, I can buy into some sort of he said, she said, one or two, three women that may have an axe to grind, whatever, however you want to play that out in your mind. I have a harder time believing that they were able to, you know, basically cobble together, not three or four people, but 15 at first, and then 42 with, by the way, I've heard many more that are a possibility. So when this first, you know, when this story first broke and we were talking about one or two, we're up to 14 now. So I don't know what to make a Like I said, you can't have that many people in on a scam like this.

This is not a scam at this point. I mean, it's just too many people involved. I've always argued with people who argue conspiracies. You've got to keep a lot of people quiet to have a conspiracy. Yeah, you do. Yeah. Anyway, enough about that. So there's not a lot going on in the football world.

Mike Davis signed a two-year deal with Atlanta. The reason I bring that up is I've been in Mike Davis. fan since he was at South Carolina. He was one of those guys. I was always pushing Cooley to tell, you know, Kyle and some of the others to sign when he was in Seattle. And he had a good year last year. And he had a good year with the Panthers and then got a little bit banged up. He's got to be somewhere where he can be the main guy. I don't know if it'll be there. By the way. You know, I always liked Mike Davis when he played for the Raiders. You know? I like that Mike Davis too. Yeah, the safety.

Mike Davis. Well, that's secondary. Those Raiders secondaries, the secondary of the 80s, you know, when they played Washington with Mike Davis, Van McElroy. Hays and Hayes, Hayes, Haynes, McElroy, and I think Davis. I think that's the secondary. I think I may have gotten that right. Anyway, by the way, the other quick football note is Kuiper came out with version 3. 0 on his, I'm sorry, 2.0 on his draft, and he's got Washington sticking at 19 and selecting Christian Derisaw, the tackle from Virginia Tech. And I think, you know, again, on the Ryan Fitzpatrick thing, I'd be very surprised if they acquire another quarterback via free agency or trade, and I would be very surprised if they draft a quarterback in the first two rounds of this draft. So it's always possible that somebody could slip. But looking at Kuyper's first round mock update,

the last quarterback of all of them to go is Mack Jones to the Patriots at 15. He's got, you know, prior to that, he's got, hold on, here it is, all the quarterbacks in a row. Trey Lance at four, Justin Fields at three, Zach Wilson at two, and Trevor Lawrence at one. He's got the first four picks of the draft quarterbacks before Mac Jones goes 15. Matt Jones for the Patriots, that's an attractive pick there for the Patriots. That's very intriguing. Yeah. Also, he's got several trades with these quarterbacks.

He's got Jacksonville taking Lawrence. He's got Zach Wilson to the Jets. He's got Carolina trading up for Miami's pick to take fields, and then he's got Atlanta sticking there at four to take Trey Lance. He also points out, and I've been reading a lot about this as well, the teams with a lot of draft choices, like Minnesota has an inordinate number of draft choices. He thinks that they could make a big jump to get like a player that they really need, and he's got Minnesota trading to nine to get the tackle out of Oregon, Penaesoul, who is the top tackle. and football. Look for some of those teams that have a significant number of draft choices, especially with all the quarterbacks gone, to jump up to try to get a player at another position that they really like. That wouldn't be a surprise at all. All right, Maryland basketball talk

right after this word from one of our sponsors. Charles Barclay will say, you are who you are, and you are what your record is. And we are who we are. You know, certain teams we can match up with and really guard and figure out how to win games and certain teams that were elite, like Alabama was tonight, it was tough for us. So, yeah, we couldn't sub. I subbed in that first half and the game got away from us and then guys got tired. We had a couple guys didn't play up to their potential tonight, which is disappointing. But, yeah, I mean, we are who we are.

That was Mark Turgeon after last night's 96 to 77 second round loss to Bama. Oh boy. You know, I got to tell you, Tommy, that a night like last night is really disappointing for me because, you know, I get excited for just a couple of things in life now. You know, family-related things, certainly. I don't want to diminish that. But Maryland basketball, and I do, you know, still have passion, not as much as I used to, but I still have a lot of passion for our Washington football team,

and I'd like to see, you know, a turnaround there. But, you know, last night was one of those nights. You know, it was the NCAA tournament. It's a chance to get to the Sweet 16. It's a high-profile spot against, you know, a really good team. And, you know, in the Sheehan household, we were jinned up for this one. I had two of my three boys home, and we were fired up for this game. And I want to do this in two parts.

I want to talk about the game last night and the season that they had. And then I want to talk about Mark Turgeon. I did a poll this morning on Turgeon. I took a lot of calls on the radio show on Mark Turgeon. You can listen to that by downloading the radio.com app and pulling up the team 980. And you can listen to basically the last two hours of the show this morning. We're on Turgeon with a lot of calls and a lot of passion. But what I was going to say is that,

And I know that not all of you understand this, but trust me, and Tommy knows it as well. We have in this city, which is not a great sports city, we have a football team that for the better part of 50 years, you know, certainly approaching 50 years, has been the number one conversation sports-wise in town without even a close number two. Right, Tom? Not even a close number two. I would agree. Yes. We were without baseball for 34 years. We had an NBA team that was absolutely horrible for most of the last 30-some years, more than that, 40-plus years.

We have had a hockey team that until a few years ago was a constant disappointment in the postseason, but did have a very passionate following, even though it wasn't necessarily. a high volume following. It was very passionate. And then we had this thing in the city, which is unique in a lot of big cities, especially on the East Coast. Boston doesn't really have passion for college sports. New York doesn't really have passion for college sports. And I know that they have a rich tradition in history of basketball and being a basketball town in college basketball, high school basketball. But in D.C., in D.C., the metro area, you've had for a long period of time, two powerhouse programs. And by the way, you know, two or now three, given that

Maryland's in the Big Ten, in three big time leagues. You know, really on the East Coast, Tommy, the major cities, Philadelphia's got Big Five basketball, and they've had a bunch of Big East teams. But Washington Metro has been unique in that you've had Maryland in the ACC and Georgetown in the Big East. And both of these teams have big followings and passion. following. But the Maryland following, over a long period of time, going back 50 years to Lefty-Druzell, it's really been hardcore and passionate. And you only have to go to some of their big games in College Park to realize that. And last night was one of those nights where it's just a reminder. And I know the fan base isn't what it once was, and it's a little bit more fickle.

And, you know, we have a lot more distractions. And in this city, we have more sports. We have the Nats who have won a World Series. We've got the caps who have won a Stanley Cup. So the dynamic has changed. But man, I'm telling you, what I love about last night, not the loss, but is the passion that is the Maryland basketball fan base. People care about this team. Generations care. You know, a lot of older people, but a lot of their kids. And you know, like a lot of big football schools in the South, it's not always because you're an alum. You know, if you grew up around here, but you went to school somewhere else, you probably grew up rooting if you're a basketball fan for either Maryland or Georgetown.

And that never leaves you. Look, I know, growing up into Poconos, I know a lot of people who never cracked a book at Penn State. Right. Who are huge Penn State fans. Of course. Of course. And you've always had that with Maryland and Georgetown.

Look, Georgetown was a national brand, a national sports brand under Coach Thompson. They had fans all over the country and all over the world. Maryland was never that. Maryland just has a very large alum base, but more than that, in a basketball town, and there's a lot of this town that we've talked about many times that is basketball, you know, centric. It's got people, look, when I went to high school, I had a lot of my friends who were Maryland basketball fans, and they went to places like Virginia, North Carolina, and they still cared about Maryland. My son is at Penn State as a freshman.

He's got 10 friends that they get together for every Maryland basketball game. When Maryland plays Penn State, they're rooting for Maryland because they grew up rooting for Maryland. Anyway, last night was one of those nights where you're kind of reminded that, my God, people really do care. And, you know, I don't want to get into the numbers and comparing it to other teams. I just know because I've been a part of it. It's a very, very passionate fan base. And right now, the passion is focused on the debate about the head coach. Should he go or should he stay?

We're going to get to that after I quickly recap the game last night. And if you watched it, I want your thoughts as well. Because truly, there isn't a lot to recap. They got absolutely bum rushed by a very talented basketball team in Alabama, who was a two-seed for a reason. who came in as the SEC regular season champs and the SEC tournament champs. And we talked about on the podcast yesterday, you know, Murray and I did. And I mentioned, I said, look, paces everything in this game tonight.

They've got to have a game that's played in the 60s. The Oklahoma game that Oklahoma beat Alabama in the SEC Big 12 Challenge, 6661. That was the blueprint. That meant that Alabama had to, you know, they had to turn it. it over a bunch, which they did against Iona, and they have been prone to turnovers. They have to have an off-shooting night, which, by the way, they have had, but they've also, and I pointed this out yesterday, they've had games in which they've made 15, 16-3s, and boat-raced people. They beat LSU by 30. LSU was in a tight game with Michigan last night.

They then beat LSU again by 18. They beat Georgia by 30. three points. They beat Mississippi State by 37 points. This is what they were capable when they really have it going offensively. They were capable all year long of just absolutely blowing teams out, good teams out. They're loaded, talent-wise, and they play a style where they have just a lot of three-point shooters. And I talked about yesterday, you know, the importance of not letting them get off and keeping the pace down and getting some breaks in terms of them shooting poorly and having more turnovers, sloppy turnovers, and that if you could control the pace, you could frustrate them a little bit.

They were 13 of 23. They missed 10 free throws from the free throw line against Iona. They didn't miss a free throw last night. Bottom line is, and I hate this, because I think it's sort of cliche for the fans of a losing team that gets blown out to say this in the playoffs or in the tournament. in this case. Well, that team would have beaten anybody last night. Well, that team, if they play that way, they're going to win the whole thing easily. You know,

it's almost like, you know, we could do nothing about it. Look, last night, Alabama would have beaten a lot of teams and would have really blown out a lot of teams. That's true. But they're also capable of playing the way they did against Iona. And so Maryland didn't catch that night, but maybe UCLA will in the sweet saying. Tommy, there was one stretch of the game. Two things, actually, two constructive criticisms, and then a couple of compliments. Maryland started off really well in this game. They were up 14 to 7. They had a 7-point lead. They were scoring pretty easily, which Naki pointed out to me this morning was maybe, you know, something Alabama didn't care about because it increased the pace.

Maryland was getting easy buckets early in the shot clock, but Alabama didn't really care. But there was a moment in the game in the first half, Maryland had built their lead to six, 18 to 12. And there was a foul on Herb Jones, who, by the way, it was Alabama, arguably Alabama's best player. He only played 17 minutes last night because he was in foul trouble. So their best player barely even played last night, and they still basically ran away. with it and scored more points against Maryland than Maryland's given up in 10 years. The last time they gave up more than 96 was 100 to Virginia Tech in a 104 to 100 double

overtime game where Gravis Vasquez had 41. Anyway, this foul on Herbert Jones was his second. He comes out and Turgeon decides, and a lot of coaches do this, he decides with the under 12 timeout about a minute away to give some of his starters arrest. You know how coaches do that, Tommy. And just to explain to everybody out there, in college basketball, you have a television timeout scheduled for under 16, under 12,

under 8, and under 4. The 16-minute mark, the 12-minute mark, the 8-minute mark, and the 4-minute mark. And a lot of coaches will, shortly before one of those scheduled TV timeouts, they'll try to get some of their players out to get extra rest. So it's not just the timeout. They get maybe a minute before the timeout.

And Turgeon tried to pull that off. He pulled three starters out and put three subs in. It's actually unusual that he goes three subs. But he went with Jerias Hamilton, Galen Smith, and Reese Smona. I've not seen him do that in a while. Coming in with one guy or two guys, yes, not three. And he rested three starters. And he was hoping that those three subs might play a minute or a minute and a half

and then you get the TV timeout. And he'd put all those other guys. back in after they've had a nice rest with, you know, like 1137 to go. But what happened was is there was not a stoppage of the clock until he had to stop it with his own timeout with 8.51 left. So you're talking about four plus minutes of having three subs on the floor in which Maryland's six-point lead turned into a five-point deficit, and it was a key turning point in the game. Maryland defensively was nowhere near as good during that stretch with the players they had on the floor,

and they got torched. Three three-pointers, they erupted, you know, they scored 15 points, you know, essentially it outscored Maryland 15 to 4 to take a five-point lead, and the game had turned significantly. Turge admitted afterwards, I should have called a timeout earlier. He should have. That was a mistake. Once they took the lead from 1812 down and they had run off seven straight to take a 19 to 18 to 18 lead, there was 10.53 left. Time out right there. Get your guys back into the game. Don't let this

get out of hand. He was hoping for a ball to get knocked out of bounds. He was hoping for a foul to be called. He was hoping for somebody to turn it over for the clock to stop. but it never did for nearly four minutes. And those four minutes were devastating. And they never recovered. Never recovered. The closest they got, after falling behind by five, they extended the lead to seven,

and that was the closest they got the rest of the game. They got to eight at halftime, and then there was just, there was one barrage after another in the second half. He should have called a timeout. I knew it. We were screaming it. I tweeted it during that break.

He tried to ride it out, hoping to get the clock stoppage without having to burn a timeout. And he admitted afterwards, I probably should have called a timeout. But he also said, you know, which is what a coach should say, but I don't want you to think that I didn't believe in my guys. These guys have played big minutes for me this year. And, you know, I believed in my guys. But that was too important a stretch. And they had run off seven straight. He needed to call a time out there.

That was a big turning point. By the way, it's not so much a missed move or a missed timeout that cost them the game because Alabama was better. And eventually over 40 minutes, they were going to win that game. But I think if he had called the timeout earlier, I could have easily seen a game at halftime that was more like a four or five-point game or a three-point game rather than an eight-point game with Alabama seemingly in control. So you don't think the mistake cost them.

the game. I don't. I think they were beaten by a team that was just much better who was on last night. So the consequences based on that conclusion are not as strong as they would be, let's say, if it did cost them the game. Yes, of course. I would have been much more outraged had I thought that that was not only a turning point, but it cost them the game. It was a turning point for Alabama. it jumpstarted Alabama offensively, but I think that they would have been jumpstarted offensively at some point anyway, the way they played ultimately with the way we watch them play

at some point whether he had subbed or not subbed or called the time out earlier. But the reality is you don't know. No, you don't know. I mean, something could have happened to Alabama where they anticipated, where the coach in Alabama anticipated something that Maryland was going to do and it didn't happen.

Yeah. I mean, these things happen. Yes. So, I mean, we really don't know. It was an in-game mistake. It was a mistake. But it was a mistake in the NCAA tournament by a guy who shouldn't be, at this state of his life, the mistake shouldn't be coming in the NCAA tournament.

I mean, that's the thing. Look, I'm not saying, I have no horse in this race whatsoever. But, you know, you can't afford that kind of mistake. You just can't. I mean, it's not like, you know, it's not like you're playing in December. This is it. Right. You've got to have your best guys out there as much as you can.

You can't think you're going to ride something out against a team that you know in your heart will probably beat you. Yeah, well, those guys were going to have to play minutes anyway. You weren't going to play your five starters 40 minutes because then you – Right. So they were going to have to play. It wasn't a mistake necessarily. to put the subs in, although the three at a time is something that's been unusual for him. The mistake was when it was clear that Alabama was starting to catch fire against a team that you had out there that wasn't capable of stopping them,

you needed to stop them with a timeout and not wait and hope for the TV timeout to come with like a deflection out of bounds. If anything, what he should have done is told one of his guys to foul somebody on Alabama. Hey, go out and foul him so we can get the TV timeout. You know, if you didn't want to burn a time out there, you know, burn a foul to get the clock stopped. But, yeah, that was the mistakes. The subs were going to play. They've been playing. Galen Smith and Jarius Hamilton have been playing a lot of minutes.

Mona's been getting minutes. But the mistake was when the substitutions were costing you your lead that you had built early in the game through the first seven minutes of the game, a six, you know, seven point lead, six point lead. And here comes Bama now. You know, by the way, Quinterly, the addition of Quinterly into the game was huge for them. He was really a maestro. He had nine, I think he had seven, eight or nine assists, something like that just in the first half. But you couldn't stop them. You couldn't stop them from getting looks.

You couldn't stop the penetration. And you just could not wait four minutes for the clock to stop, because at that point, you were down five, and they had all the momentum. You needed to get out of that thing. Okay, they made a nice quick seven-0 run. It's 19 to 18. I'm using a timeout here and I'm getting my guys back in so it doesn't get any worse. You know, that was the move. He admitted it.

He admitted I probably should have called a timeout. I probably shouldn't have risk, you know, waited for that TV timeout. He could have had somebody foul somebody. You know, he could have told Reese, go out and foul the point guard. Just grab them, hack them. Go try to get a steal and get called for a foul. That would have stopped the clock. But it didn't stop.

And you see that error made, you know, more often than you would think. but it's a legitimate point of criticism. Look, the other thing, too, is once Alabama got on that role, and they made eight three-pointers in what seemed like seven minutes of game action, I know this seems totally in conflict, for those of you who really know basketball, against a team that's making all those threes, well, you can't go zone. I would have gone zone, because those threes were coming from two things. They were coming from penetration, easy penetration that was creating opportunities, collapsing the defense,

and then they were coming from second chance opportunities on offensive rebounds and kickouts. I would have really, and by the way, you don't rebound typically as well out of his own as you do, Amanda Mann. I understand that as well. I just would have tried something different. And he did in the second half. He came out and played zone, and it actually worked a little bit for a little while. They're not a big zone team, but they'll put. play a lot, you know, they played a bunch of three, two at times this year. Um, but I would have

tried that in the first half when it really, at least to give Bama different looks. That's it. Other than that, I thought Wiggins was terrific. I thought offensively, Maryland had a good game. Um, and it's, it's one of, you know, they've struggled at times, you know, for them, you know, 77 points, and I know a lot of it came at the end or whatever when, you know, there weren't important possessions. But, you know, this game had to be played in the 60s for them to win. and Bama got 96. Bama was better, start to finish pretty much. They have better players.

They have better athletes. They have had a great season. They're 26 and 6. They have done this to several other really good teams this year. And who knows? Maybe they'll do it to somebody else the rest of this tournament. But they're also capable of a clunker. And Maryland did not get the clunker from them last night that they needed,

unfortunately. No, no they didn't. You know, I mean, again, and Turgeon said some things I thought were kind of interesting in the post game about the team, and you correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going from memory. And he basically said that Maryland was lucky to be there,

and he was happy with the season. Yes, he's being ripped for A specific quote where he said, look, we're not a final four team. Of course, this was taken very much out of context by a lot of people saying that he was implying that they're not a final four kind of a program. He was saying that this team, you know, this team, the way it was built, was not a final four team. They were picked, not 12th, as he described.

They were picked 10th in the Big 10, which, by the way, I think you shouldn't emphasize that too much because I think it's a bit of an indictment on your program, you know, and I've mentioned that before. So, you know, yeah, he was very proud of the team. He says he's always going to remember this team for what it went through, how they fought. They could have quit easily. You know, they were able to be a final 32 team with a chance to play in the Sweet 16 when it was a rebuilding year. and he said, look, this isn't, this wasn't, you know, we weren't a final four team. Come on, let's be real. I think we maximize this team's, this team extremely well, closed quote. And, you know, I think a lot of people took that out of context to think that he was saying, we're not a final four kind of program, you know.

Well, you're not being idiot to conclude that. He didn't, he wasn't saying that. Oh, you. And you're really stretching for, for, for, to say that. But still, you know, I mean, I don't know any coach who actually would verbalize during a tournament at any point, win or lose, that he didn't think they could make it to the final four. Right. I mean, that's the kind of, look, that's what he does. I mean, he's brutally honest sometimes, and it gets him in trouble. I agree with that.

I was going to take a break and just start in on this conversation, but let me just say this, because I don't want to lose this thought. I do think that sometimes he gets a bit too defensive. And I think a lot of the comments last night were meant to sort of talk about, you know, on one hand, how proud he is in this COVID year of what they overcame as a team. And yes, there was definitely a point in December or January, Tommy, where you're like, oh, God, this could be a losing season.

You know, Maryland hasn't had one of those in 28 years. I think they're like top five in winning seasons consecutively in a row in college basketball. So, you know, there was a point, you know, they got blown out by Iowa and Michigan, and they were one in five in the Big Ten. And I'm like, oh, boy, this could be a losing season. Then they went to Illinois and somehow won, you know, and then they beat Minnesota on the road, who was ranked at the time. And then all this, you realize, and look, I was telling you this during the year,

he's doing a hell of a job with this group. This is a really good coaching job. This team is not, you know, a tournament team, and they've got a chance to be in the tournament. When people were laughing at me and tweeting tournament, She and you are, you're delusional. I really saw a guy that was getting the most out of what he had, and they were learning how to win.

And then they got on that big win streak, and, you know, the bottom line is they ended up being in the tournament pretty easily. is a 10 seed and they won a game, you know, over a Yukon team that was pretty damn good when they were healthy with Book Night. But the bigger question is, you know, what's next? And what do we think about Mark Turgeon? We'll get to that right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, a change of plans here because Scott Van Pelt was available to come on right now. So I told Tommy that I would call him back, or maybe I won't call him.

I'm back, depending on how well this goes with Scott and how long it goes. Or I can just do some Tom for you on here if you want. Yes. Do a little Tommy for us. Do Tommy complaining about Turgeon. Go ahead. You've got to get to the second weekend. We're Maryland.

We're like Kentucky. We should go to the final four. You know the best part about it is he loves it too. He loves when you do it. When I do it, I don't think he's nearly as happy. Like I, when I, when I, he doesn't know me. He's never, he's never met me. Like, he can't be mad at me. Well, I'm like a random, make-believe person. He knows you. I mean, you came on the show with us for seven years every week. He, you just don't know. I understand that. Yeah. But we don't like, I've never met him. Right. So he can't, like, he can't want to punch me as much as he could want to punch you.

Um, you know, when I do it and I'm mocking, the problem is you're, you know, we're both doing it in, with tongue, a place firmly in. and trying to have as much fun as we can with him. But I think sometimes he's a little bit more sensitive to me doing it because usually it includes something that he says that he has said that I don't agree with. And then I just do it in his voice. But anyway. So you can do it making fun.

Anyway, pivoting. Yeah, pivoting. Tommy may or may not come back on the show today. Sorry, Tommy. So I just with Tommy sort of broke down the game, which, let's face it, there wasn't a whole hell of a lot to break down, which which leads us into the bigger picture conversation. And just for context, you know, I told Tommy, and Tommy's been with me, obviously, for a long time now.

We've been together for 11 years, basically. And I, you know, he knows how much I care about this. And, you know, he's been in that building enough. He knows the passion of the fan base. He understands it. Not everybody that's listening to this podcast gets it and even cares about it, which it's fine. But on a day like today, this is what we're going to talk about primarily. But it is a very, very intense fan base.

And they got boat raced last night by Bama. They lose by 19. The only part of the game that I had a problem with is, and Turgent admitted it afterwards. He said, I probably should have called a timeout when I subbed in the three players. You know, if he had called the time out on the 7-0 run that gave them the lead rather than waiting four minutes, you know, it's not going to change the game. Bam is better. They were better.

They were eventually, we were going to eventually have to put subs into the game. But before, I'll tell you what, since you haven't had a chance to weigh in on this on my podcast, real quickly, give me your, you know, 60 seconds on the game last night. Well, yeah, I mean, that's, you're trying to buy, you're trying to buy a break around a TV timeout. And, you know, they put in Mone and Smith and then, Bama started hitting threes. I mean, I don't think anyone thinks that's why they lost the game. I mean, there were two different 19 to four months.

Bama makes threes and avalanches on your head. They made more than anybody in America this year. It's how they play. Unfortunately for Maryland, Petty, who has not been shooting the ball well, got hot. Shackleford was hot. Everybody, everyone who took shots made up. So, you know, I mean, the way Maryland started was excellent. They're getting what they want.

They're scoring the way they want. And you had to hope that Alabama didn't shoot well. And they didn't shoot well. They shot great. So, I mean, somebody makes 16-3s. You're bound to lose. Bama is a two for a reason. And they play to their ceiling.

I don't know how much better they can play than that. So, you know, your Maryland one going to win a game where Bama played great, and they played great. So let's get to the bigger picture conversation, the one that every Maryland basketball fan is having. And that is yes or no. Turgeon moving forward. I'll tell you just my

big picture answer on this. Two things are true. One is, in my view, one is he's a good coach. He's actually a really good coach. But the other thing is the results haven't been good enough, period. And so I'm very torn.

Like we both like him very much and like his family and he's a quality person and he does everything the right way and he's a great representative for the university, etc. But Maryland basketball matters and the results matter. He's a really good coach who's improving, but the results to me in March certainly haven't been good enough. But I think they have trended better here in recent years, and I think he's actually improving as a coach. So I want him to stay. That's the big picture. I've got more details and more information and more thoughts, but I want your sort of big thought on him.

our fan base is I mean passion is the right word there's a lot to this I'll just say I've I've gotten to know a lot of the coaches in the Big Ten pretty well

and staff as well and they they'll the cliff notes from them is what's with your fans from other from other programs so like

do they know that marks one of the marks one of the most respected coaches in this league as a coach today I'm like well you know I don't know like what are they then like

this is totally unrelated to the coaches obviously my guy Stanford Steve's hysterical who you know well Steve's like your fans act like like you guys are Kentucky he says how many five how many elite eight that they've been into my life

he said I think they were two in 2001 in 2002, he's like, look at the rest of what you are. And this is an outsider who's moved down here and has assimilated nicely within the group. He's like, who do you think you guys are? He said, look at you guys. You had a two-year-run, and outside of that, what have you ever been? And I'm like, well, you know, and I don't want to fight him because you kick my ass.

But, I mean, you know, he doesn't know back in the eight days. He was alive probably for like the Lucas-type people or whatever. That doesn't even matter. I don't only go down that road. But so I guess all of that is sort of background to say that there are people that aren't within the group that look at the group and think that they're insane people. Right. Right. That's the way they're viewed.

Right. And if you're telling me that you want to move on, all right, a couple things. With A, what money? And don't do that. Don't do that message board thing where you just make, you just. just make believe it. Go away, you just find the money. Oh, okay. That's like, let's say you live in a house right now, and your spouse

comes home and says, we need a new house. What money? Well, we'll just find the money. That's not how life works. Okay? Yeah. You don't just say you're going to find it. You know, like Indiana apparently had a one booster wrote a $10 million check. Right.

Okay. Well, if you got somebody that's going to write, if Damon Evans has some of it, it's going to write that check, and that's the direction you want to go, okay, tell me who you're getting. and don't do that thing where you're going to move on from a coach that has largely had you in the tournament and largely had you in the top half of the league, and you don't have a plan. Because then you go nowhere. You go backwards.

There was a really interesting thread I read on Twitter today from somebody that I follow called this is a guy called Big Ten geek. I have no idea who the person is, but this feed follows the Big Ten. and doesn't talk a ton about Maryland. It's normally about the traditional Big Ten teams. But this is like a 20-some-od tweet thing today on Maryland about sort of who they are, what they are. Had some really interesting comments about the Wiggins decision and why it was a tough decision because he's older than, you know, people that have this, should I stay or should I go? Question. But it comes back to Turgeon.

And it's, it's, it's, there's a line in here about, you know, this probably. seems crazy to say Minnesota fans who kill for six turnie birth in seven years and so at others and that's the rub of being a perpetual round of 32 team. It's generally not you're not good enough to bring home multiple conference championships and nobody hangs

a banner for first round wins. All that's reasonable. And I'm not going to read all of these, but I'm going to get to the net net here. And it's this long, 20-some-eyed tweet thread ends with firing a coach that consistently gets teams into the dance and

near the top of the conference standings is a high-risk proposition. You'll pay it through the nose and the standard for success is high. Frankly, it seems crazy Turgent isn't already extended. Now, again, this is someone who isn't part of the Maryland fan base. I just find it interesting that that's how it's seen from the outside. And I believe that where they are right now, that Turgents have the opportunity to extend this window and either find out yes or no.

And if you're going to, again, if you're going to force them out and you're going to go in another direction, you need to know what direction you're going. You can't just decide you want to go in a new direction and then look around and go, okay, where are we going? Because then you're lost, and you'll stay lost. Indiana. Is the big fear.

Well, I don't know, Indiana, you know, for all you and I know, Indiana could have their person right now. Yeah, but they've gone through this several times. Look, Kreme got him to the Sweet 16 a couple times, but no further. You made a point to me. Look, you, damn, they haven't been to the tournament. I know. I never got to the tournament.

I know. Not one time. I know. Not once. Again, and so like when you say, the thing about Maryland is you go, look, Minnesota killed for this, and that's where Maryland fans will go, well, we're not Minnesota. We have a banner. I'll go, okay, you're right.

Now do the Minnesota. Now do Indiana. Do the Indiana one. Big Indiana would take what Turgeon's given Maryland, the past, whatever, and And the thing that will be the great unknown forever is what would last year's team have been? No way of knowing. With Sticks and with Cowan and with Wiggins taking steps forward and were selling, all the pieces that they had, were they primed to make a run? Absolutely they were.

Does that mean they would have? No. You and I don't know. They could have lost in the first round. Or they could have lost in the second round. And no one will ever know the answer to that. And so that's smack dab in the middle of this. The best chance he had, I mean, that Mello team had a chance.

Maybe then Mello gets concussed in the West Virginia game, and they lose that in a second round game. And you lose at the buzzet to LSU in a second round game. And so, yeah, that's not excuses. That's what happened. And so all of these stack up and you say, is it enough for Maryland to be a first round, a first weekend team? No, no, it isn't. but if you go back and you look post-championship with Gary, what were they?

And what did people say about Gary before that magical two-year window? So this is me rambling, but it's just, and you and I are older than some of your listeners and probably younger than some of your listeners. But if you have enough history with his team and you're honest about what it has been mostly, it's been lots of frustrating, you know. Gravis's team lost in the first weekend. they lost at the buzz of the first weekend. And that was an incredible team.

An ACC championship team. Imagine being Iowa. Go ahead with your Iowa, and then you're Purdue, by the way. I want to hear this. Imagine being Iowa, Illinois. You've waited your whole life. Well, not your whole life, but you're waiting since 2006. This is the best team you've had.

Iowa and Coburn come back. There you are. You've got a chance, man. You're going to make a run. you're a one-seat. You get run by Loyola. I wasn't an accident. They're better.

Yeah. And that's how you lose. Your Iowa, you get a four-year guy who's the all-time leading score. Bowen comes back at different, a guy who's a quality leader at Point Guard, you know, four-year guy got hurt the whole bit. He comes back. You can run in the first weekend. Like, and now this Maryland fan's going to go, we're not Iowa, we're not. Okay, we're Maryland.

it, but like, it's just, it's hard to win. And I just, I mean, I get people's frustration. I think the frustration level doesn't jive with what the results largely have been because there's an implication that there's been a cratering, even with a team that made the tournament and won a game. People want to act like, oh, they have finished eight in the big, I get it. They made the tournament, they won a game. Is that enough?

Oh, it's not enough. then find me the guy that's going to get us more, get us beyond that, perpetually. Because guess what? That's that guy that gets us there perpetually, that that'll be the first one that gets us there perpetually. Our birthright is Maryland fans. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?

No, you're not wrong. And by the way, one of the things that you just said, I don't want to lose this thought. The exaggeration and the hyperbole about what they are is what drives me nuts, because, you know, there's this perception that somehow it's a bad programmer, that it's cratered. And they just, in what was described and we all knew was sort of a transition year, in a transition year, they made the NCAA tournament and won a game. But I think your Iowa thing and your Illinois thing and your Indiana, like there's just a lot of programs that have a lot of basketball, rich in basketball history,

that have dealt with the same thing, which just goes to prove that, you know, the solution is not guaranteed. You know, Iowa under Fran McCaffrey, you know, like you said, has done nothing. He's never been out of the first weekend. And here he was with the equivalent of what we had with Juan Dixon. And by the way, we brought it home with a banner. And he's got Luca Garza, the player of the year. He's got the team that Iowa thinks has a chance.

And they're done in the second round. Illinois, these fans have waited. They've had some history, too. They've been in Final Fours. They've been in national championship games, you know, in the last 15 years, 20 years or whatever it was when they played North Carolina in the final. And here they are. They got their team. They're a one seed.

And they get bounced by, but not only a team that would, it schooled them in every sense of the word, but a team in their own backyard, which had to hurt. And so, and then the Indiana thing, I actually think Archie Miller is a good coach. I watched him at Dayton year after year, you know, overachieve and do. well. But at Indiana, four years done. So Creen wasn't the answer. Archie Miller isn't the answer. You haven't been to the tournament in four years. Like, you have to be careful what you wish for. Here's what I'm saying. Yeah. But hold on. Here's the thing, though, because the people who say, and they're right when they say it, whose responsibility is the roster that Mark Turgent has this year. And it's his.

It's his responsibility. And he'd be the first to tell you that what happened last year, they had probably five or six different guys. They thought that they had a really good chance to get. Guys who could have made a difference, who ended up at different places, one of whom Bruner was down in Alabama, didn't even play. He played like two minutes last night. Like they had guys they thought they could get that could have played significant roles and would have helped that they did not get. and the roster composition is his responsibility. And I don't, like, there's no excuse to be made.

That is his responsibility. It lands in his lap. So I think people feel like maybe me, certainly you, are only in this excuse-making business, like, for Turgeon. And that's not what I'm, all of it, in totality, the successes have been larger than I think people acknowledge. and the shortcomings, which this year in particular was what he had to work with are his as well. And so when I say that I feel like you should be given the opportunity, it's got to be a short window to say you've got to schedule better out of your conference, and you've got to get secondary to that, you've got to get the people that are going to give you the chance

for that success that people are starving for. Yeah. So I know that we've talked about this before, but I'm just going to set the table again for what the expectation should be. This is my view on what the expectation should be. And this is taking into consideration everything. You know, our rich history with Lefty, Gary, two Hall of Fame coaches that preceded Turgeon, you know, and incredible, you know, a national championship, a final four, you know, lefty went to, two elite eights and lefty in a normal, you know, in the 1980s and 90s with 64 teams in the tournament probably would have gone to more tournaments and final fours. But we know what it was, but in terms of where it is now, in the landscape of college basketball, you know, Maryland's not Kentucky, they're not Kansas, they're not Carolina, they're not Duke, they're not even Villanova right now, you know, and Villanova comes in here and takes a lot of players, and they've won two national championships. And Villanova is sort of on this run where Maryland was,

with Gary in the early 2000s. Like they were, you know, at the top of the list of the next group of programs. You know, after you got through Kentucky, Carolina, Duke, and Kansas, you know, and maybe back then, UCLA and Indiana, whatever, but not even really then. You know, then you had this second tier, and Maryland was at the top of that second tier during, you know, a good stretch of the early 2000s, late 90s, early 2000s with Gary. And that's sort of where Villanova and Michigan State have been here in recent years. So to me, it's, you know, I view it in sort of a five, you know, five year window.

All right. Every five years, Maryland basketball, the expectation should be that you're in the tournament four out of those five years. I'll give you one year that's a transition year or you lose a player like, you know, Justin Jackson when they lost him a few years ago and they didn't make the tournament. That was a big loss. He forget what he's become. He had a chance to be a real factor on the team that didn't go.

to the tournament after three straight tournaments for Turgeon. You know, he'd be on a run right now of seven years in a row had Justin Jackson not gotten hurt. So I'll give, you know, the one out of every five years, there's a transition year, there's an injury or shit happens, you don't make the tournament. That's criteria number one, expectation number one. You've got to make it four out of five years, 80% of the time. Three out of those five years, you've got to have a top four seed, meaning the expectation

is to be a sweet 16 team. All right? You may not make it in all three of those years. You may not win two games in the first weekend, but in two of those three weekends, I want two sweet 16s every five years. And I want to be a top four seed three out of every five. And then one out of every five,

I want to be able to go into the season, being the preseason number two, number three, number four team in America, like we were in 2016. And I want a legitimate roster and thought that we are a national championship. We're a Final Four national championship contender. Those expectations to me are reasonable for Maryland basketball.

They're not over the top. I'm not asking for two final fours every couple of years or a guaranteed national championship. But I think that's reasonable. And let me just, before I get yours, let me just state that in the last five years, Maryland's been in the tournament. Okay, if you count last year,

they weren't in the tournament, but they were going to be in the tournament. Four out of those five years, okay? If you go back to, you know, the Jackson year was the injury year. They were a team last year that was thought to be a legitimate final four contender, so that knocks one of those off. And they were a four-seed once, and they would have been a top four-seed last year. So two out of the five years, they would have been a top-four seed in a region. but they did not get beyond the second round.

Last year, we don't know what would have happened, but they have not been past the second weekend once. But the point here is my expectation level, he's pretty close to trending in that direction. Well, I mean, based on what you're setting forth, I think... What are your expectations? What should they be from your standpoint?

I mean, I hadn't ever thought about the criterion of numbers of whatever. Well, think about it. It's vague. It's more vague. It's broader than that. I just, I want to enter the season with the idea that your, that your team's got a chance, that you're, that you're, it wouldn't.

Like, because so many of these things, as we've seen, particularly in this tournament, like, look at, look at Texas. Has shock I won a tournament game in Texas? No. You have a tournament win. I don't want a game in Texas. Not one game. Has it won a tournament game.

Yeah. And they were a three-seed. And they're really good. He's taking a team to the Final Four. Yeah. I understand that, but not in Austin, Texas. He hasn't. No.

I'm not knocking them as a coach. I'm just saying, to me, again, it just points to the vagaries of this tournament. That was a three-seat. It was loaded. And I thought it could get the final four. They couldn't figure out what to do against Abilene Christian. I'm saying, but a team like that, like to be like what Texas was, they were ranked.

They won their conference tournament. they were a three-seed, and I thought they had a chance. Well, they had beat because these tournaments, it's a one-off situation. Like, what happened last night to Alabama wasn't an accident. Like, Alabama's loaded, and their roster construction, the way they play, I mean, they're an exciting group. Like, there's a reason a lot of Maryland fans are pining away thinking, ooh, I'd love to try to get oats.

Well, good luck with that, like his buyout now in Alabama. Like, they committed, there was a two-way street. They're like, we'll give you more money, but we're going to make it real hard for you to leave. Um, like, I, I would want to enter every season thinking you had a chance to compete and a chance to be a second weekend team shouldn't feel like a stretch. It should feel like, yeah, and then once you get there, all bets are off, you know? I mean, maybe you get lucky and somebody's in your way who's Oral Roberts, you know. Um, and I'm not knocking oral Roberts. God bless them, but like, are they beaten Ohio State in Florida back to back again? probably not. Again, it's the tournament.

So I don't care about seats and Final Fours and this is and that. I'm talking about having a team you believe every year has a chance. That's what I want. I essentially describe that. That's the Gary Williams game. Yeah. I described that. I just quantified it in terms of seating to say that means you're a Sweet 16 kind of team.

Understood. Well, I mean, consistently entering on like the four-line. I mean, that makes that second game, you're playing a five. If seeds advance, well, then those are coin-flip games. Those are hard to win. Yeah, I understand. But, hey, maybe you get lucky. Maybe you get Ohio or maybe you get North Texas instead of getting Virginia or Purdue.

Purdue is the weirdest one to me. I love them. I thought, you and I are in a tank for painter, and they just, they couldn't, they were not prepared for that stage, which was shocking to me. But, I mean, look, all of this lands, and we land in the same place where we start, where I think that there's, there are reasonable criticisms and frustrations to be made. To me, if you're not giving credit that this group made the tournament won a game,

I don't know what you're doing. But if you want to say, well, the roster was flawed, you're right, that's true too. But I think you've got to acknowledge that this season was successful, with what they had and the fact that they went from 1 in 5 and 4 and 9, you know, to making it to the tournament winning a game was the best you could hope for from this group. Now, if you want to say, well, then Maryland basketball shouldn't be in a, that's the best you can aspire for with the group you've got.

I agree with that. I agree. Your ceiling shouldn't be round of 32. No. So that's part of the expectation. That should not be what you hope for. with Maryland basketball to get to around a 32. No, you'd want to get to the second weekend and have a chance.

And for a lot of our life, that's been true. But the idea that there's something grander than that doesn't jive with results, as we know all too well. We've been to one sweet 16 in 18 years. 18 years. I mean, that is in sense. when you consider that the 18 years before that, I think we probably went to 10 of them, you know, or something like that. That's really unbelievable. You know, Gary made the Sweet 16 after,

by the way, beating UNC Wilmington on the Drew Nicholas shot, which then allowed. Go back. See, thank you. Go back and remind people. Yeah, they did, but what did it take? It took Drew Nicholas hitting a miracle shot. Otherwise, there's zero Sweet 16 since the final four. Since the national championship game. If not for Drew Nicholas. Yeah. If not for... It's crazy.

If not for Dr. Yeah, what's crazy about that is that they win the national championship and they've only been to two sweet 16s since winning a national championship. But before reaching their first final four the year before the title, they had been to four sweet 16s in five years or in six years. You know, so... And Lefty was constantly, you know, and consistently in the sweet 16 when you know, you know, when he was there. So it was, it's just weird because in the national championship, the program actually has been a worse program after the national championship than it was before it. Yeah, and I mean, this is where the Indiana comparison is fascinating, just because I looked at it,

since they played Maryland in the title game that year, they've missed the tournament more often than they've made the suite, more often than they've made the Sweet 16th. So, I mean, you know, that that's where Indiana, again, they've got more history. They've got five times the number of banners. Yeah. And they haven't, again, they haven't been to the tournament. Didn't go to the tournament under Archie Miller. Got a guy who had been to the tournament four straight years at Dayton and had an elite eight one.

Comes to Indiana, it doesn't make the tournament. So that's where this brings it full circle to, like, if you've got some guy, some guy that's going to make it magically better, you know, I shouldn't say magically better because that implies that it did it, that it's not possible. It's possible. But if you've got a guy that's going to make it better, okay, well, then you have to hope that that's what you get instead of, you know, getting Archie Miller. And I'm not down on Archie. I think Archie's a good coach.

I was a big fan of the hire for Indiana. Me too. Me too. I thought that was an excellent high. And, you know, it's just hard to win, man. It's just hard to win. It is, well, it also brings it full circle to one of the first things that you talked about. which is, you know, the person that follows the Big Ten and the people around the Big Ten, you know,

the way they view Maryland from afar. They're like, wait a minute, you guys have an excellent coach. You're going to the tournament basically every year. Look at Indiana. They haven't been in four years, you know. And, oh, by the way, your best team, you didn't get to play in the tournament. But I also think that that can be a function of, you know, a new league, new, you know, partners. not really a recognition of the history, which now you have to go 20 years back.

Because ACC fans would understand to a certain level the frustration of Maryland fans maybe more than some Big Ten fans would. The bottom line is I see a guy that is a good coach who's improving, who's had this team in the NCAA tournament six out of the last seven years. They got beat at the buzzer to go to his second suite 16. They had their best player injured in a game in which they very well could have gone to a third suite 16. But the bottom line is they've only been to one. And even though last year could have happened, probably would have happened.

We don't know. And the funny thing is, I was saying this to Naki earlier, not playing the tournament last year, really, playing the tournament last year would have left us with a definitive feeling one way or the other on him. If they hadn't gotten out of the first weekend, we would all say not good enough time to move on. if they had gone to the elite eight or further, you know, then he would have gotten a contract extension and we wouldn't be talking about this right now. And in fact, we would have been lauding him. We would have been lauding him for taking a team that lost,

you know, two players who took him to the elite eight and, you know, and taking this team to the tournament and winning a game. Like, this is the year out of my five that could be the year that he missed, but he didn't. So, anyway, I don't know, man. Like, I'm not an apologist for him.

I just know. I just have a sense of basketball to a certain degree, and I know that he's a good coach, and I talk to coaches, and you do too. And I haven't, I've never talked to one person who I trust, and I believe in that says, you've got a bad basketball coach, man. You've got to make a change.

He can't do it. Everybody thinks he can do it. Now, let me just mention, I don't want to lose this thought. There are a couple of things. The style they play, may be, you know, an issue with recruiting. You know, I've told everybody the story about sitting on the T-box with him and you saying, hey, Mark, Kevin's got a complaint he wants to share with you.

That was great. Well, I mean, look, how about we push the pace a little bit? Can we push the pace? And, you know, to his credit, he said, you know, where we were in offensive efficiency? And I said, yeah, you were top 10. You know where we were in defensive efficiency? Yeah, you guys are like top 20. He goes, well, that's pretty good.

think we are pretty good when we get set up and we can, you know, run half court offense or we can set up defensively and we're not getting beaten transition. He definitely coaches a style that, you know, potentially may be impacting his recruiting. I don't know. There are other issues, you know, Under Armour may not be the biggest help necessarily in recruiting, but he hasn't recruited either. He hasn't coached poorly. He hasn't coached poorly. The number one thing with Turgeon, The number one complaint is he has not gotten the results in March, period. And if you want to talk about stylistically, you don't like the style, it's been one of my biggest complaints.

I think when he's had talent, he hasn't played fast enough. You agree with me. And I also feel, and you said it earlier, I'd like them to schedule differently. I think he should schedule more aggressively and play bigger time games in November and December. That's what Gary did. You know, we've never been to Maui in 10 years. How is that possible? You know, Gary's teams, how many times did he go to Maui twice?

Did he go to Maui three times? I don't know. I went to one time it went, which if you're a fan, you've got to go. It's the best thing. It's just absolutely a blast to be there. But it's been a long time for that. You know, I think back to the Stanford and Kansas and Temple-type games that Maryland would always have, you know, out of conference.

Yeah, Madison Square Garden, Kentucky, and Michigan State. Yeah. I mean, these are the types of games that would make sense to schedule. But look, people just, you know, I don't know. You did that poll today, I'm sure it was overwhelmingly they're done with it, right? I'm going to check it right now. I basically did a poll saying Mark Turgeon, right guy to produce. Key question is Mark Turgeon the right guy to produce more after stating they've been to one sweet 16 and 18 years?

70.7% no, 29.3% yes. You know, it's funny because I had a conversation with Jeff Erman, and Erman told me, he said, I said, what do you think the hardcore fan base is? He goes, 70, 30. I go, I think it's more like 60, 40. You know, it's in my poll, it's basically, you know, 70, 30, you know. That's right. Well, that feels like what you hear, you know.

But again, all of this. All this comes back to the bigger issues, which are the reality about the funds you have to make a move. And do you have a plan if that's what you think you're going to do? Because making a move with no plan is not having a plan. And then you wind up longing for a tournament. you know like that 48 hour window after they beat you con those are the best those are the best those are the best those are the best those are the best of being a college basketball fan thinking about the next game getting excited about what you know what time did what time is

day game is in a night game and then you know I talked myself into them beat in Alabama because they're going to play great defense and this and that well they batama played to its ceiling and they kicked Maryland's ass and it's like well okay that sucks it's over um but you and I joke about this for years. Just that tournament music, watching, waiting to see your team's name on the line, like all of those things. That's what you want. You want to have that.

If you make a move and then suddenly that becomes, oh, man, remember, remember when we used to go to the tournament? You know what I mean? I mean, that was fun. I can't imagine Maryland basketball ever truly cratering, because if it did, I don't know what people would do. Because they're acting like this run is cratering, you know. Talk to Wake Forest or talk to like, I don't know, St. John's or people that have been really, really good and yearly good. And then they're just, they're not there anymore. And in life, people don't expect, people don't look backwards.

And I'm not saying Maryland basketball should. I'm just saying the perspective is necessary to remind yourself of what it's not. It's not what people are pretending it is. so yeah but it is but it is but it is more than it is you know it should it is more than what's been produced in March it should be more correct we don't know we look I'm not saying it isn't I know I think this is you should say this is fine and this is what you oh this is good I'm not saying that I'm saying just don't talk yourself into the Maryland playing you know

in the CBI against UC Riverside. Right. But don't, don't, don't make up, don't make it up. And by the way, if you're saying, I like the style of play, if you're saying, I don't think that this is enough because of this, this, and this, okay. But then just don't, you don't have to, you don't have to supplement your argument with things that aren't actually what's happened. No, I think that, you know, if part of your argument is, look, he's a good recruiter, but he's not getting the kind of players that can really make you, you know, at least at Villanova's level.

Like, you know, I think a lot of people look at what Villanova's done with a lot of players from Baltimore and D.C. over the last six, seven years. And they're like, well, that should be Maryland. And, you know, I understand that to a certain degree. I think, you know, certainly style, look, last night, you know, if you play the style Alabama plays, you know, I can imagine that for a lot of big-time recruits, it may be more appealing. There's some legitimate, you know, gripes you can have, but don't, like you said, you can't take it to the level where you don't recognize that this team is, you know, in a place that you may not want it to be, but it could be a lot worse. Going to the tournament six out of the last seven years and the only reason you didn't go to it in 2018 is because you had a key injury, you know, I don't like what's happened when we've gotten to March, including in the Big Ten tournament. I'd like better results in the Big Ten tournament.

But this has been a top four or five program in the big top four program in the Big Ten since it joined it. Now, I wanted to. That's true. That's true. That's not just, again, that's why I think that the outsider's opinion is most interesting here. Because, you know, you, me, Ermin, and all the passionate people that are on his site, You're too immersed in it. Like somebody who has nothing emotionally or financially invested that just looks at it and goes,

okay, what, you want to get rid of the guy? Like, you guys go to the tournament. Like, again, Minnesota would kill for that. Oh, we're not Minnesota. Okay, right. Well, then how about Indiana? Think they take the tournament? It probably would.

I mean, I don't know. The whole thing's fascinating. I just, it'll be an interesting spring. I don't know what the plan is. All I'm saying is, if you're going to make movies, have plans. Also, don't do, don't do, don't do the thing either where you tell me his teams don't get better or his teams, he doesn't develop players. Now you're just lying. You know, you take the Mello Trimble example and you say Mello never got better. Okay, Alex Lenn, Bruno Fernando,

Cowan, Wiggins-Ialla-Morcell just on this team, Kevin Herder, I mean, the list sticks. Jalen Smith. I mean, he has developed players and put players into the NBA, you know, players that weren't necessarily obvious NBA players when they got there either. I would remind everybody of that. All right, I want to finish up with just one guess on what's next with Scott. And then we'll finish up the show right after this word from one of our sponsors. All right, two more minutes with Scott, and then we're going to wrap it up for the day. Number one is this. What is your guess?

Is he back next year? He's got two years left on his deal. all know in college football and basketball, it's not a good thing for your coach to have just two years left on his deal. It can really impact recruiting. Is he back next year or not? Just your gut sense of what will happen? I mean, I understand, like, that's what I'm supposed to have like a take. I have no idea. I'm sorry. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what Damon Evans wants to do. I don't know what he's, I don't know what he's financially able to do. I don't, I don't know. The buyouts close to six million bucks of the final two years.

You know, like you said, Indiana and some of these, you know, programs do have people that will write the check. You can't write the check as much money as you make. Kevin Plank done, I think he's written too many checks at this point. You know, we know somebody else that could write it, but I think he likes Mark. So, I mean, they'd have to, probably pay it out. Okay, well, I mean... Unless he left to take another gig. You don't have a gut feel.

That's what you're saying. I don't know. I mean, I know I'm supposed to have, like, we're closing the pod here to say. I don't know. We're closing the pod. Here's a... Hot-tec. Hot take.

I don't know. Does Aaron Wiggins come back? Well, that's... I think that depends on if Mark's here. I think if Mark does... I think he might. I think I know he'll test the waters. I know he'll test the waters, and I think it's possible that he would return.

I don't believe he's hell-bed on leaving. So, we'll see. What about Morsell? He could come back. Do you think there's any chance he would? He hasn't talked like a guy that's coming back. I don't think so. I don't think. I mean, and he's one of those guys.

And it's interesting how, like, I think of a years ago, I think of a Rodney Elliott, Adeno Gregory, like Baltimore guys that came in as one thing and left to something entirely different, you know. Leaders, guys you trusted taking big shots, guys that were just, you know, heart and soul type, Maryland guys, Baltimore guys. Like, I mean, I just, I have such an affinity for,

for what he kind of represents, you know, and what he gave the team, which was everything. He became, I think, their singular identity because it was his ideal. Like, we'll play defense. I'll be the main guy. Everybody follow me. And that's how they won a lot of these games.

So, you know, I mean, he could. I just, I don't know. I haven't heard any indications that he would. It's going to be a wild year with the transfer portal, the whole thing. They've got three players, Cornish and Reset out of Baltimore, both, you know, top 75, top 100 guys. The guy Graham that reclassed and came in in January is a top 50 guy.

I think the class is roughly top 25 right now. I mean, he's got to find another player or two. It's going to be another big couple of months for him coming up if he is here. Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, everything you and are talking about here is just thinking out loud. And, you know, we'll find out soon. I mean, I don't know what Damon Evans' plan is. He, you know, maybe he has one. I mean, this isn't the kind of thing that you're going to openly talk about during the middle of a season where your coach is taking a team to the tournament.

If you're planning on moving on, you'd have to wait until it's over to move into direction. Because I don't think, I mean, I know I'm not privy to what his thoughts on. I mean, I know that. Yeah. Well, I knew you weren't as well, but maybe you just reminded me that maybe some people listening were expecting you to know something. You know what would be interesting is if he comes back and Aaron Wiggins comes back, they actually have a team that could be pretty good next year. Wiggins would be probably a first team selection to the all Big Ten team preseason coming back at this point. He would get, you know, certainly some discussion in terms of all American honors preseason.

if they came back with Wiggins and Iyalla in the recruiting class, et cetera, and added another piece, you know, it's not impossible that they'd be a preseason top 25 team or certainly somewhere around there. So, you know, they would have a chance to have a pretty competitive year. I'd love to see Aaron Wiggins in the step that he might take next year into his senior year with a good supporting cast around them. I mean, they'd miss a lot more sell if he's not back, but Iyala really developed into something, you know, special. And, you know, they've got some pieces. Yeah, and that's certainly on the table. That could happen.

Or if Damon Evans decides he wants to blow it up and goes in a different direction, and he could do that, and then you could be like Penn State or wherever, and everybody will be in the transfer portal, and then you go see who you get, and then you start over. And here's the thing. Like, people point out, oh, you're friendly with turd. Yep, I am. I've gotten to know him and his family.

I know him. I was friendly with Gary and remained so, and my guess is, whoever the next person is, I'll probably get to know that person as well, and maybe be friendly. I'm not suggesting we need to vacation together, but I'll probably, I haven't done that with these other people. I'll probably get to know whoever that is in the same way, just professionally you kind of approximate to these people,

and they know that I'm a supporter of the team. So you get to know people, and I'll support whoever that person is whenever that time comes because I'll support Maryland basketball. The thing that's been the biggest bummer to me about this is I just, I feel like that there's such a line in the sand that's drawn. And it's like, that's the part that bummed me out is that people feel like, you know, there's like these camps of people that when Maryland loses, it's a chance to say, see. And if Maryland wins and the Maryland, like there's reasons for the people that are anti to be almost not mad that Maryland won, but they don't celebrate the wins. That's the part that really feels like there's a toxicity in the ranks, which is not the way it ought to be. But here we are.

Yeah, but that's where I get back full circle to the passion, you know, especially in East Coast School with, you know, a lot of people that love to be, you know, super passionate, which means being hypercritical and, you know, over-the-top positive when things are going well. Look, we've said it a million times. Gary couldn't get past the Sweet 16, and he had the same level in probably some of the same people saying, that's enough. I mean, it's time to move on. With Steve Francis, we can't beat St. John's. Are you kidding me? And then to get blown out by UCLA, by 35 points in second round, not get out of the first weekend. And people were ready.

They were ready to turn on them in the first final four year after they lost to Florida State at home. But that's also reflective of people caring. It's when you don't hear that stuff. Scott, what's happened with the football team in recent years? When you stop hearing the anger and you realize that apathy has set in, that's the worst. And there's nothing apathetic. You know, you can look at things like season ticket base. And we had sellouts for years at Xfinity, you know, for a long period of time.

And it's not that way anymore. And that's reflective of something. I hear you on that, but the conversation just in the last 24 hours reflects that there's still, you know, a burning desire for people that want this thing to be much better than it's been. And I think you and I would agree with that. We want better March. Yes. Yes, of course. Of course.

Again. And then I'm now just being redundant, but, you know, you can't. And I get the people that want the better that are saying you can't. not, now it's like triple negative, but you can't not do it because you don't want a worse, March. Like, you know, like fear, like, you know what I get it? I get that. I totally, I just totally get it. Um, I don't know. I think that's what we've been accused of. Like, those of us that know Mark and have been friendly with Mark, we get accused of sort of sort of being apologist and fearing, you know, and, and by the way, that's just not neither,

that's neither one of our MOs to begin with. All right, witness our, are gambling cards from over the weekend. But there is some common sense into this and some recognition, as you pointed out, about other programs that have had steeper winning traditions that haven't been able to find the obvious answer that was so much better than the last guy. And I just would hate to boom him right now or have him walk when it's actually been trending in the direction of, you know what, we're going to be in the tournament every year. We're going to be ranked, you know, pretty much three out of five years.

And every, you know, a couple of years, we're going to have a really good team with a chance to make a deep run. Because it has trended that way. He didn't make the tournament the first three years he was here. He's now made the tournament six out of seven, if you count last year, which I do. And so, you know, it's, I want more in March. I do. We've done a lot of talking in circles here. We'll see what happens.

and we'll root from Maryland, and that's how it's always been. Thank you. I'll talk to you later. Back tomorrow with Kooley or, no, with Zab. Zab's going to be on with me tomorrow, I think. I forget. I'll look at my schedule when we get done. Have a great day.