The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terps Roll; Latest On Bieniemy

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

Kevin opened with Maryland's impressive win over 3rd-ranked Purdue last night in College Park. Then Matt Paras/Washington Times jumped on with the latest on when/if Eric Bieniemy will be the new OC in Washington. Kevin and Matt also discussed the Wizards' win last night in Minnesota where Kevin thinks Bradley Beal had one of the better moments of his career. Then it was Steve Czaban jumping on with Kevin to discuss a variety of NFL topics along with guesses on what Dan Snyder finally decides to do. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Lawyers going to throw it to Morton. And that'll do it. Takes down number three.

College Park last night, Xfinity Center, one of those nights in that building. It was special. More on that coming up. Maryland ran away and hid from third-ranked Purdue, winning 68 to 54. I'm going to recap that game. coming up here in just a minute or two. Two guests on the show today. Zab's going to be on today.

I don't know what we'll talk about. We'll talk about the Super Bowl, because I know he had very strong feelings about the Juju Smith-Schuster, James Bradbury holding penalty. We'll talk about the Packers and Aaron Rogers. Zabe, as most of you know, does a radio show in Milwaukee.

He doesn't live in Milwaukee. He lives here, but he does the radio show from here. on an FM station in Milwaukee, and is very familiar with the Packers and the Aaron Rogers situation. We'll talk other NFL and we'll talk a lot about the commanders, and I'm sure many other things as well. Before Zabe coming up here in this opening segment, Matt Paris from the Washington Times will jump on with us.

Matt covers both the commanders and the wizards. When you listen to this podcast, it's very possible that Eric B. Enemy's already been hot. We're recording this right around 12-15-ish. So it's possible when you listen to this. They've already got Eric B. Enemy as their offensive coordinator. But I'm going to ask Matt to update us on that and how the interview process has been going. He's been in town apparently since Wednesday night.

And I think that this is going to happen. And I'm sure Matt believes it's going to happen as well. But we'll also talk some wizards. I think Bradley Beale last night had one of the most memorable closeout performances of his career. He strapped that team to his back last night in the fourth quarter. He scored 13 in the final four minutes. They went from down seven to winning the game by eight in Minnesota against a Timberwolves team. Pretty good team.

Rudy Gobert, Mike Conley and company, pretty good basketball team. And the Wizards now have won four out of the team. of their last five entering the All-Star break, and they've been healthy here over the last few. Beale had a season high 35, more on him with Matt coming up when we get to Matt Paris. But I'm going to start with, well, I'm going to start with mentioning Window Nation. Window Nation right now has a terrific opportunity for you to buy windows if you're in the market for new windows. No money down, no payments, no interest for two years. You don't have to pay anything for two years. When you do start paying,

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If your windows are 10 years of age or older or you've been having some issues, you should get new Windows. You'll save big on energy bills. You'll increase the value of your home. You can actually qualify for a $500 federal tax credit with new windows. Lots of ways to save big without any money out of pocket for two years. Call them at 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com and mention my name. So last night, Maryland, wow. I hate the 630 starts. I'm not going to whine about it. Matt Painter actually said something after the game. I watched his press conference early this morning after the game last night. He was very, very complimentary about the atmosphere and said he was hoping that it wouldn't be nearly as raucous as it usually is because of the 630 start.

And he actually said, you know, in big metropolitan areas like D.C. tough to start a game at 630 on a weeknight. I completely agree. and I don't know why the Big Ten does it, but they did. I went to the game last night, took me an hour and a half to get there. I'm not going to complain. I got there at the under 12 TV timeout. I watched the first eight minutes when I got home last night.

Man, was that building special? Those of you that know, no, some of you don't. I've said this for years. When that building is in its best mode, big game, bloodthirsty for the opponent. And Maryland was last night for Zach Eady and Purdue. You know, they're jinned up this year, too. I mean, Kevin Willard has started off really well. I mean, they were ranked 13th in the country earlier in the year.

Then they really went into a bit of a slump. They were really struggling to score there for a while. And now the Terps are flat out on fire. They've won five out of their last six games. They're really threatening now the upper – six out of the last seven. I'm sorry. They've won six out of their last seven games. They're threatening the top two now in the Big Ten.

They're not out of it for a Big Ten title. They're only two games back from Purdue now in the loss column. Purdue's lost three out of their last four games. The Terps are tied for third with a 9 and 6 record in the Big Ten. They're 18 and 8 overall. They're a game behind Northwestern. They play Northwestern a week from Sunday in College Park. I don't think Maryland's ever had a big home game against Northwestern.

I don't think they've ever had a big road game against Northwestern. Northwestern, but Northwestern's in second place. They beat Purdue on Sunday. They beat Indiana the other night. Maryland and Northwestern may be playing a week from Sunday for second place in the Big Ten. And if Purdue continues to lose, the winner of that game is going to have a chance to win the Big Ten. Now, I would not count on that. That would also probably require Maryland to run the table. They're nine and six. That leaves them with five. games left in the Big Ten. And those five are all winnable.

They're at Nebraska Sunday, a bit of a trap game, by the way. Then Minnesota Northwestern at home, and then they finish at Ohio State, who's terrible this year, and at Penn State. I don't think they're going to win out, but it's, you know, a four-in-one finish should be good enough for second place, especially if one of those wins is over Northwestern. But anyway, back to last night. I've mentioned this many times in the past. I don't think there's a better atmosphere than Xfinity Center or, you know, many, many years ago,

Cole Fieldhouse on a night like last night in our town. I just don't think there is. I mean, it's certainly not FedEx Field. It's not Nats Park. It's not Capital One for a Wizards game, although I've been to a Wizards playoff game that's had a really good atmosphere. And I've been to Caps playoff games that are exceptional. But I don't think any of that matches what you get on a night like last night.

at Xfinity Center for a big Maryland basketball home game. And it was. And the game itself, man, I have been so impressed with so many things about this team. I don't think it's far from the most talented team Maryland's ever had. Far from it. And it'll be far from the most talented team that Kevin Willard puts on the floor in coming years. He's got a top 15 recruiting class coming in next year with the kid, from Paul the 6th, Deshaun Harris Smith coming in.

They've got a game tonight against Dematha. And I, you know, he's going to have more talented teams, but he has really figured it out with this group. You know, he's got a versatile team, not a big team, not a deep team, but everybody contributes, everybody knows their role, and they do have an exceptional scoring point guard in Jemir Young. Maryland would not even be, I don't think, an NIT team this year without Jemir Young. The transfer from Charlotte, by the way, he's got a year left if he wants a COVID year, he can come back.

He's got a chance to make first team all Big Ten. He's right on the line of first or second team. He's going to be no worse than a second team all Big Ten selection. Averaging 16 and 5, he's been exceptional recently. Maryland's been exceptional at home. They're unbeaten at home in the Big Ten. Their only home loss of the year was to UCLA back in December. Jemir Young last night, 20 points, five rebounds, four assists, one turnover in 36 minutes

against a team that was really trying to push out their defense against him. They picked him up when he crossed half court. I'm not sure anybody's improved more in a season. I'm talking about from the beginning of this season to where he is right now, then Maryland Center Juju Reese, Julian Reese. All right. 6-9, 230 pounds, long arms, very skilled, I think has super high basketball IQ. Kevin Willard was on the radio show with me this morning.

You can listen to that at the team 980.com. He said the thing that people don't really realize about Julian is how smart of a basketball play. where he is, I agree with him. He sees the floor. He's got great feel for the game. I think he's a good passer. He did not have any assists last night. Ten points, nine rebounds and is really battled some of the best big men in America. It really started, I think, with the night they beat Michigan at home, and he went toe-to-toe with Hunter Dickinson. And then the second half at Purdue was incredible. Reese was out of his mind that particular game when Marilyn came back in almost stole one against Purdue on the road.

He is so huge for them right now because they don't have size anywhere else. Pat Emelian off the bench has been great. Another super smart player. I've loved him from the jump. Canadian, 6-7, not really a true center, but he plays the 5. He can play the 4. Willard's been playing Emelian and Reese together a lot more, especially in a game like last night where you've got a rebound well-defense.

and not allow Purdue the best rebounding team in the league, the best offensive rebounding team in the league. Last night they had just three offensive rebounds against Maryland. Maryland out rebounded Purdue last night, 35 to 23. Hakeem Hart, I talked about him earlier. He has just come into his own. He is a nightmare matchup for a lot of teams at 6-8, long-arm playing pretty much the two most of the time. sometimes, you know, when they're smaller, he'll play, you know, the forward spot. But a lot of times he's in the back court with Jemir Young with Reese and Emelion and Scott on the floor. Another player, by the way, who's just improved so much as Ian Martinez, I didn't think he could play last year. I knew he was an athlete.

You could see he could defend, but he just wasn't a basketball player. He was just more of an athlete. Now he's turning into more of a basketball player, and he's giving them super, valuable minutes off the bench. She played 21 minutes last night, seven points, three rebounds, and assist, and just outstanding defense. And I thought Don Kerry last night, he's been very inconsistent. I know that, Maryland fans. I thought he defended well last night. I thought he passed the ball well last night. I thought he was actually really big for them in a couple of key moments. But this was a rocky first half. The Terps shot 8 of 26 in the first half. It's

been part of their problem this year. The one, there are two things. Number one, they're not three things. They're not that big. Although Reese is playing big right now, they're not that deep, although they go seven deep. Along the backup point guard doesn't get that many minutes, and he really didn't get many minutes last night because he allowed an inbound pass to get picked off and lead to an easy two points for Purdue. I don't think he came back into the game after that. But the other thing is Maryland has some woeful shooting nights, especially from behind the arc. Look, I mentioned they've won six out of their last seven. The one loss was at Michigan State, a totally winnable game. They were three of 22 from behind the arc. Last night, they shot

eight of 26 in the first half, but man, did they go on a, I mean, a blistering 63% in the second half. At one point, I think they were shooting 72% during that 29 to 4 run. Ended up for the game, shooting 47.2%. It's a good basketball team. It's a well-coached basketball team. They pressure. Sometimes they're not pressuring with their full court press. I know many of you say I'd like to see that press turn the other team over more. It's not necessarily their goal all the time, although I thought they were more aggressive last night with the press. But really what they're trying to do is wear teams down, trying to limit the amount of possession time when they do cross half court to run half court offense.

Been very effective. Willard's strength, like Turgeon's strength was, is as a defensive coach. And, man, you see Maryland, they play man, they play matchup zone, they play pure zone. They'll play in one possession, multiple defenses. I've watched every single minute of every game this year. It's interesting to see how he disguises what they're in. He'll pressure in that 2-2-1 full court, then he'll drop back into what looks like a 2-3 zone,

but it's really a match-up zone. And then after like 10 seconds of the possession, they'll go man-to-man. I mean, it's confusing for other teams as to what defense they're actually facing. he's doing an outstanding job. He has really figured out the pulse of this team. They play hard.

They are excellent defensively. Even though Purdue shot well in the first half, I still thought Maryland's defense was intense. It was great. And again, the crowd was awesome last night. And during that run, just deafening, and you could see Purdue was rattled. This is a home court league, the Big Ten.

This year, I don't know what the overall record is. I should probably have looked that up. But it just seems like teams at home are winning. Maryland hasn't lost a home game in the Big Ten. I can find out right now because I think the standings always list the home in a way. Well, it's home and away for the entire season. But, yeah, Maryland's got – I mean, there are several teams in the league with just one loss at home. and I don't know if it's a league loss.

Purdue's got a loss at home. That was Rutgers. Rutgers beat him there. Marilyn's only got one loss at home. Indiana's only got one loss at home. It's a tremendous home court advantage league. It really is. I mean, you're talking about some of the best venues in the country,

Assembly Hall, Mackey, Xfinity Center. It's special. And it's fun this time of year. Maryland really surging. Look, they are, you got a chance right now to really contend for the upper echelon of the Big Ten. I mean, they're really in good shape to get a top four double buy in the Big Ten tournament. But with respect to the NCAA tournament, their Ken Palm number this morning is 16. Their net ranking is 19. By definition, that makes them a four or a five seed right now. You know, they're in the tournament.

Last night pretty much clenched it unless they were to lose out, and I don't think that's going to happen. They're in the tournament, now it's about working their way up. If they can continue to win some of these games down the stretch and then win a game or two in the Big Ten tournament, they've got a shot to be a top four seed,

a top 16 overall seed in the tournament. I mean, that's what their power numbers say right now. They do have to be careful, though, Sunday. at Nebraska. Nebraska's won like two out of their last three or three out of their last four. Maryland blew them out a few weeks ago. They were up by 30 in that game. I think they won the game by 19. But Nebraska all of a sudden has won three out of four. They beat Rutgers on the road the other night. They're healthier. And that's another venue. You wouldn't think about it. You know, Nebraska being a true football school first, football first school. But that place is packed every night.

I remember Terge used to say, I mean, you wouldn't. believe Nebraska. They fill that place up for every home game. And I guess what else are you doing in Lincoln, Nebraska? But they're playing better. And man, it kind of feels like a trap game, doesn't it? I asked Willard about that this morning. He said he thinks he's able to convince his team that no game in this league is a trap game, that every time you play somebody in this league, especially on the road, you know, you got to bring it or you're going to lose. So Nebraska, Sunday. They can get that win.

I would think they would be ranked this week. Not that that matters that much. Their power numbers are super, super high and climbing. So going to be fun to watch them here through the rest of this month and then into March. They're going to be a part of March Madness for sure. And maybe a team that could win a game or two. That would be amazing considering they were picked to finish 10th in the game. the Big Ten before the season started.

One last thing. I had a chance to say hello to a lot of people last night. It was fun meeting several of you last night at Xfinity. On my way out of the arena last night, a couple of dudes screamed, Sheehan, Terge would never have won this game. Never. First time they've beaten a top five team since 2016. How's your boy Turgh doing right now?

I did not answer other than just to say, big win. Let's enjoy Willard in this team. Not make it about Turgs. I don't know why everybody wants to keep making it about Mark Turgent. I get this from you guys all the time, you Maryland fans. Yes, it is true. Last night was the first time that Maryland has beaten a top five team since 2016. They beat Iowa, who was ranked third at Xfinity Center in February of 2016.

I remember the night, too, was off of a snowstorm, and it was a mother you know what to get there. But think about that, because I did. Like, how often do you play top five teams? Like, that's a wonderful thing to spit out there and say, and for some of you, it was really with the intention of, like, you know, knocking turge. Like, first time since 2016, they've beaten the top five team. Well, Maryland has only played five games in the last seven seasons against top five teams in the regular season since the Iowa game.

And they were 0 and five in those games, okay? But it's not like we're talking about they're owed for their last 26 against top five teams. You don't play top five teams that often, even in a league like the Big Ten, because you beat up on each other so much that, you know, look, this season, this league's going to end up getting the most teams in the NCAA tournament, the Big 12 and the Big Ten will. And at various times this year, they've only had two teams ranked because they keep beating up on each other. they've only had five regular season games against top five teams guys over the last seven years. So, you know, yeah, they didn't win any of them. Here's actually a stat to kind of, you know, do what I do,

which is say about Mark Turgeon, excellent coach, won a lot of games, because he did more than anybody not named Izzo or Painter in the Big Ten when he was in the Big Ten. and at the same time, didn't do enough in March. Totally agree. That's the mic drop, and I'm with you. Program had gotten a little bit stale because they weren't winning in March

and they didn't have an opportunity to win big in March in 2020. Understood. I mean, we're all in agreement on that. But the more important follow-up to haven't won a game against the top five team in seven years, Sheehan, is, you're right. They haven't. They haven't had many chances.

because nobody really does get that many chances against top five teams. It's rare when you get to play a top five team, even when you're in a big time league. But what's actually more important is how often were you ranked in the top five and what was your record? Turge coached his team as a top five team 26 times at Maryland. So like what was the record? Forget about what Maryland's record was against top five teams. They were a top five team themselves much more often than they played a top five team. And he was 22 and four as a top five team.

So when Maryland was ranked anywhere from two to five, because they've never been ranked number one, they were ranked number two multiple times under Turg, multiple times under Gary, multiple times under Lefty. They've never in the regular season been ranked number one ever in the history of Maryland basketball. crazy. Never. Been ranked number two more often than any program that's not been number one in the AP top 20 or top 25 poll. But Maryland was ranked very highly at times under Turgeon. 26 games played as a top five team and he was 22 and four in those games. Well, you would hope that as a top five team, you'd have a hefty winning record. Just like,

playing top five teams when you're not one, Maryland never had an actual top five matchup. They were in the top five and the team they played was in the top five. It seems like they had some heavyweight matchups with Illinois and Michigan State and Michigan and Ohio State over the years, Purdue. And many of those matchups were between ranked teams or one team was ranked like 12th. One team wasn't. But his teams that he coached were ranked in the top five,

much more than playing top five teams. And he was 22 and 4 in those games. So to the two dudes screaming that, understand that you don't get many chances to play top five teams, even in a great league like the Big Ten. All right, let's bring on Matt Paris from the Washington Times. You can follow Matt on Twitter

at Matthew underscore Paris, P-A-R-A-S. Matt covers the commanders and covers the wizards will talk both with Matt. So as of this recording and this conversation with you, Matt, we don't know if they've hired Eric B. Enemy or not. By the time people listen to it, they may have hired Eric B. Enemy. Tell us what you know about the interview process as of right now, as you and I speak, at 1215 on Friday. Yeah, it's going well. I mean, at this point, I think it would be a surprise. If he wasn't hired, I mean, you're getting updates on what the enemy wore to his meeting Friday with the commanders. And so, you know, if you're getting wardrobe updates, that means going pretty well.

What was he wearing? I didn't see that one. What was he wearing? Albert Brewer reported that he was more business casual today, slacks and a button-up versus yesterday, the more business meeting. So, you know, it's going well. they're talking contract and staffing today. And so if everything goes as planned, but yeah, it sounds like there's mutual interest

and BNAMI is interested in actually taking this job. You sound surprised. I think, well, I think actually, and I've said this all week long, whomever is being interviewed by this organization, should be interviewing them as much as they're being interviewed because of the current status of ownership and what that means for Ron Rivera and staff, etc. I think that's kind of what you were alluding to. Well, maybe not.

I mean, this has not been the easiest organization or the premium destination over the years for anybody. I will ask you the question that I've been asking everybody. Why hasn't Eric B.N and me been hired by anybody else? Why is Washington now going to be, we both think, the first NFL team, team to offer him not a head coaching position, but an offensive coordinator position after he's interviewed with so many teams over the last few years? Yeah, you know, I think it's gotten to the point for BNME personally that I think maybe now he's more open to taking a quote-unquote lateral move. I don't necessarily think it's

exactly a lateral move because Washington is allowing him to call plays, which is something that's been a knock against him for why he hasn't been able to land a head coaching job. So I do think it makes sense of why BNMI would be interested, even with the risk that you kind of mentioned at the top there that, you know, Ron Rivera, if a season doesn't go as planned, you know, their staff could be fired within a year and who knows what happens with ownership. So it is a bit of a risk for BNemi, but I see why he'd be interested in it. And I don't know how many teams have actually tried to offer Biena Mi a coordinator job. I mean, I was a little surprised at the Raven, you know, didn't wait for him, didn't wait to speak to him.

But Todd Munkin is a pretty good hire. So, you know, I think kind of like the cards aligned for Washington in this case. They were one of the last team standings to make a hire, and they were clearly interested in him, which I think went a long way. But remember, you know, BNAMI turned down a head coaching job in college. Colorado was interested in him in 2020. And so, you know, that would have allowed him to be a head coach on the college level, but clearly the NFL is something he's interested in that he should be interested in, I think.

And I think if he does well here, I mean, I think teams are going to have to take a serious look at him, again, to be a head coach. He's already more than qualified. But if you can impress in Washington, then how can you not get a head coach and go? Yeah, I mean, I guess that's one way to look at it. You know, there were other defensive head coach teams here recently, you know, in Arizona and also in Tampa. And I don't even think that they reached out to ask or they didn't even ask, need to ask for permission because he's not under contract in Kansas City anymore. Washington appears to be his only option.

And, you know, you mentioned staffing, you know, structure itself. what kind of deal do you think he will get? And do you think he'll get some sort of elevated title? And then what about staffing? Is he going to hire out his own offensive staff? Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, Ben Standig reported that Washington's assistance had a couple of contracts that were expiring.

We saw that the Arizona Cardinals put in a request to interview wide receivers coach, Drew Terrell, for their offensive. coordinator position, which I thought was actually kind of surprising because Washington hasn't even looked his way for their own vacancy. So, you know, maybe they shake things up there. I don't know necessarily. I'm sure the enemy have guys around the league, but I don't, I can't point to someone that, you know, he would automatically bring with him to Washington.

But it is interesting. I mean, and it sounds like if they are talking staffing, then, you know, maybe they do give him an elevated title of associate head coach. He's had that before in Minnesota. and so, you know, we'll see what happened. Bianami had that title in Minnesota, Associate Head Coach? Well, let me pull it up, but I believe so. I think in 2010, he was elevated there.

Let me check him. Who was he working for then? Was it Childress? Yeah, he had assistant head coach and running back's coach, is his title. In 2010, the Vikings were coached by, I believe, Broad Childress or Bres or Leslie Fraser. Let's see.

The Childress would make sense because Childress worked for Andy Reed. That's the only, I don't remember. Yeah. Right. Yeah, so that year was Childress, but he was fired and Frazier took over his interim. Got it. All right. So you believe that this is going to happen, you know, if it hasn't happened already as people are listening to this,

you believe that Eric Bianemi is going to become the next Washington offensive coordinator. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I'd be pretty surprised at this point. Do you have any idea how it went with Greg Roman? I don't. You know, I think it was, you know, because Bianemy was still on the docket, you know, they interviewed Roman on Tuesday, but they were clearly waiting for B. enemy.

They were waiting for the Super Bowl parade to wrap up. and it seems like he's been the guy, at least for the last few weeks, that has been kind of the frontrunner. But I do think it is interesting that Roman kind of emerged late in this process. I don't know if he was waiting personally to see what else was out there, but, you know, he's been around for the last month, and no teams have actually interviewed him besides Washington, I don't think. Right. All right.

Well, I kind of agree with you. I think we're ready to enter the Eric B. Enemy offensive coordinator era, which may last all of one year as a new owner buys the team and basically blows out everybody and hires his own staff. Who knows what happens. It's funny because I think I mentioned this to Tommy yesterday. These conversations that we're having more likely than not, I mean, the odds favor this that a year from now, like they're all kind of irrelevant in hindsight. Unless, you know, Bian and me ended up being a really good coordinator in developing Sam Howe and they ended up having a great season. I mean, there's a chance that could happen,

but the odds are stacked against it. And we're talking about a new owner who's come in and a whole new staff. And, you know, we're obsessing over an offensive coordinator right now when really the number one story in this franchise, I think you would agree, is ownership and the sale of the team. What's your latest hunch on where they are on that? Yeah, it's a little bit quiet. I mean, things picked up during the Super Bowl week in terms of reports kind of coming out there. I thought it was interesting that, you know, the New York Post reported that Washington

is having trouble finding buyers. We've heard about Josh Harris is apparently another prospective buyer that is toward Ashburn. But beyond that, I mean, it seems like everyone is waiting for what Bezos is going to do. I don't know necessarily if he's that interested just based on the reports out there. But, yeah, I mean, it is times a ticking now. I mean, the NFL owners meetings are about six weeks away, and you know, you would have to have an agreement lined up by then for owners to approve it.

So if this is going to happen, it's going to have to happen in the next few weeks. And right now it's relatively quiet. You know, I've heard others say that. Why can't they get together in April or May, you know, by Zoom and vote on, I mean, if this thing, you know, needs more due diligence, it needs more time and they are haggling out, you know, a deal and it doesn't happen by March, but somehow it wraps up in April. The owners can't vote on it in April or May? Oh, no, no, no, to be clear, they absolutely can. They can call a special session. They did that with the Broncos last August.

Rob Walton was formally approved in August, which is not when owners meet. They called a special session for that. So that is always an option, but I think the NFL would prefer it when there's official league business that they don't have to all get together and do that. That's always kind of been the target date floated all along going back all the way to November when Snyder announced that they were going to sell it. that they were exploring itself, rather. All right. We're talking to Matt Paris from the Washington Times.

So I went to the Maryland game last night. I got home, and then I watched the rest of the Wizards game, and they were getting beat, and they were getting beat badly at one point. And they came back in the fourth quarter, and won a game. They were down seven with four and a half to go, one by eight at Minnesota, a good team heading into the All-Star break. I think it was one of the more impressive closing performances by Bradley Beale of his career. He had 13 points in the final four and a half minutes, really basically put the team on his back in the fourth quarter.

I haven't read a lot about whether or not people are raving about Beal's performance last night. What did you think you did write about it? Yeah, I thought it was, I thought it was impressive. I mean, the thing that really stood out to me was the lack of turnovers. That's kind of been... Bill's Achille-Heel in the clutch. Then that's, you know, in terms of his shooting

numbers, I think, in the clutch, it's been fine, maybe is slightly below average, but it's the turnovers that have cost him at the end of the games. And so, you know, he was controlling the ball. He was patient. They did run the offense sometimes through Puzma, which I thought was smart. And what I did

write about recently was kind of this core of Beal, Porzinger, and Kuzma, what is their feeling or is it right to go forward? You know, are they going to be more than playing team? And, you know, you listen to Tommy Shepard's interviews about this, and he wants to give a time to develop. I mean, we can talk about whether that's a smart plan or not, but it is, you see games like that, and yeah, they got down 20,

but their stars, their talent kind of anchored them in a game like that. And I don't, you know, maybe that is worth building around, who knows. Yeah, so what was your conclusion? Because I think this is a really interesting conversation. I think they've got as much talent in their top three players as they've had since, you know, they had Wall and Beal as young players and whoever you wanted to say their third best player was, whether it was Gortot or Nene or, you know, or Riza that first year. But they, you know, Paul Pierce for a year, this is a talented three.

I mean, it's not Boston, Milwaukee in the east. It's not any of the top teams in the West. But what was your conclusion in thinking about what they have and what they, you know, Tommy Shepard wants to go for here with this group. Yeah, well, I maybe didn't put a conclusion in the actual article. I've got a little bit more open-ended. But personally, just thinking about it, I mean, I don't necessarily know how they take that next step if you commit to all these guys.

Like, it is talented, but you still are a bit far away from Boston and Milwaukee. hockey, you would really need your role players to start, you know, you would need to find the perfect compliment of role players around them. And their, their moves on the margins have been fine. I think DeWan Wright has been a really important signing for them, but I don't know necessarily, you know, if you're committing top money to Kuzma, to Porzengis to Beal, can you actually build out the rest of the roster around that? And so kind of why I would have moved. I would have moved Kuzma personally at the deadline. I mean, it depends what offers they got.

Maybe they just didn't like the offers there. But, you know, recouping a future pick for him, I think, would have allowed them to, you know, Beel and Porzingis, I think is still a good one too. And you could kind of, you know, build the rest of the roster around that. But I just don't see the path

to actually becoming, you know, a top four seat in the east. And so that's where I get nervous committing that much money around those three. Yeah, I think I completely agree with that. The problem, of course, is you have to have, you know, I always say you have to have a top five,

a debatable top five player in the league to actually have championship aspirations. Like no team since 2004 has won a title without kind of an obvious top five player. in the league. And if you can't access one of those, and that's really hard, and it's really hard here because nobody seems to be interested in coming here if they've already established themselves as kind of an elite player, you have to draft one. And you've got to kind of get lucky drafting one. You know, they come in all kinds of, you know, positions in the first round. They've had

very early first round picks. But, you know, Janus and Kauai kind of game in the middle of the first round. So you never know how those things are going to work out. But it's weird about the NBA, isn't it, Matt? Because if you don't have one of those five players, what are you really trying to accomplish? I think what a lot of these owners are trying to accomplish, and Ted in particular, is he's trying to get to the playoffs, play a seven-game series minimum where they have two to three extra home dates, which turns, you know, a very, you know, moderately profitable

if not break even business into something that's more profitable or at least slightly profitable. It just seems like that's what they kind of try to achieve when they don't have the superstar. Yeah, I completely agree. And there are other examples of teams trying to build young cores and then trading a package for a star. That's the problem with Washington is even if you are going to try and build out from this middle approach or whatever, they don't have enough appealing assets to where if you wanted to cash in for one of those better players down the road you know duny ad abdia is a nice player but he's not he's not a trade chip that you would package like you couldn't package him kuzma and you know throw in another

player and land someone like kevin durand they don't really have the draft capital to offer a bunch of picks like they just don't they don't have a promising enough court to take that next step, even if they want to build kind of from the snowman's land, they're just not set out that way right now. Thanks for doing this, Matt. Really appreciate it. Hope you're well. Sure.

Thank you. Matthew Paris, everybody from the Washington Times at Matthew underscore P-A-R-A-S. Steve Zabin will jump on with me next. This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. You go to mybooky.org. Use my promo code Kevin DC, and they've got a unique deposit bonus for you. You can cash in and cash out quickly if you use my promo code Kevin DC. Wager your deposit amount just one time, and you're eligible to cash out right away.

Most books don't do that. My book he does. They've got everything you want for any sport you want, and they'll have everything for March Madness. They've got all of the prop bets already up for the 2023 NFL. season. Kansas City is the favorite to win the Super Bowl next year as well. Go to my bookie. Dot AG. Use my promo code Kevin, D.C. It is my pleasure to welcome on to the show. My friend Steve Zabin, Zabe, of course, has his own podcast, which you can get anywhere you get a podcast. It's called the Zabecast. And of course, many of you know this. He's no longer on local radio,

with the exception of an appearance here or there, but he is the host of Morning Radio in Milwaukee on 97-3 The Game. So you can check it out on their website or just go to Zab's Twitter page, and he'll link you to it at Zabe. You know, I was actually thinking about you the other day because after the Super Bowl, you were tweeting various things. I was thinking about all the... Tweeting various things.

Well, I mean, some things we agree on, some things we don't. But, you know, you know, Sure. As everyone, there's agreements and disagreements. Of course. But you know how we have always had the conversation, whether it's you and me or Andy or whomever at this station, that we've always kind of felt like the best local sports talk radio,

typically, not always, but more times than not, is done by people who are doing it in their hometown. So I'm curious, is it a challenge for you? You're obviously very successful in Milwaukee, and you've been on the air in Milwaukee for a long period of time. But is it a challenge to do sports talk radio in a city and a town that you're not from? It's a challenge for sure, but I've been part of that market for 24 years. And I've talked sports for 45 minutes a day at a fast pace with a couple of morning DJs.

And I've presided over and had commentary on the various shortcomings and glories of the Packers through the years. not so much the bucks and the brewers because for many of the 24 years, they stunk both those teams. So we didn't talk about them a whole lot. They've just kind of gotten good and relevant in the last four to five years. So they're kind of in a golden age right now. But yeah, it's the only market that I could pull that off in. And I'm still learning little nuances about the way fans are in Wisconsin and in Milwaukee.

And so I'm learning the ends and the outcome. And it's funny how even, you know, little things that you want to be. wouldn't think would be a big deal like Corbyn Burns losing his arbitration case, over 700 grand. Like the team offered him 10 million. He wanted 10.7. And they couldn't come to an agreement, so they went to arbitration. And he lost. And he was all but heard about it. And I think part of me said, well, that's arbitration. What do you expect? He didn't like it. And he came out and said, you know, I feel like I've been disrespected by the organization. And fans were very passionate about it because they're very sensitive about the fact that they're a small market franchise.

They got an owner who doesn't have a lot of money, and they love their baseball in Milwaukee. I mean, they love it. If the brewers were to ever leave, it would be devastating, like totally devastating to the city. So that's something that I've come to learn over the years. But you learn the ends and out. It's hard, though, any other city. You would struggle, I would struggle. We would all struggle.

All sports and all sports radio is inherently local. Yeah, it is. a lot of people really prefer their sports talk host to also be fans of the same teams that they're fans of. Sometimes insist, sometimes demand, sometimes will relentlessly hound a host out of the market if they're perceived to be an interloper. You haven't been here all your life. Right.

You haven't suffered. So how does that work for you? Well, because Milwaukee is a newer-born sports radio market. meaning they didn't have full-time sports talk radio until 2004. Think about that. Well. 2004. So they were late to the party, and it's not like they didn't have plenty of teams to talk about.

It's not like they're not big sports fans. They are. But it was just a weird little thing where it was just kind of late coming to the market. So I think that's part of it there. But yeah, there's still a few holdouts. You're like, you're not a local. And they want to play that game and whatever. That's fine.

How did you get to the gig that you got in Milwaukee, which you, you know, Zay would be doing, you know, he would lock his way, he'd lock himself into one of the studios and he'd be on for a half an hour every morning in Milwaukee. How did that come about? Was it one of the national shows? No, it wasn't that. It was, so I-Heart Radio, one. wanted to launch a new talk station that was going to bring over the very popular morning show that I was on, Bob and Brian, and then have a role for me in another limited capacity without necessarily living in or moving to the market.

That was plan A. But I'm talking about how did it start with Bob and Brian? Oh, how did it start with that? Yeah. How did you first, how were you introduced to Milwaukee and you became launching? before you hosted a daily talk show. Yeah, no, here's how it happened. 1994, I was working in Northbrook, Illinois at the fledgling one-on-one sports radio network

when there was very few national sports radio networks out there. In fact, ESPN, Kevin, had just begun to stand up the early stages of their own national sports radio network. Okay, so 1994 I'm there, and one of the sales execs at this network, knew the general manager of the FM station in Milwaukee, who had just lost their sort of sports contributor. This guy Mark Patrick, who's been in the round radio and whatnot, from Indianapolis. He had gotten a deal to go across the street, so to speak, in the market, to another morning show.

And they needed a morning guy that could talk sports. And because I played golf with this guy, Greg Noak, he suggested me to the GM, and they set me up for a tryout. And I, apparently, they liked the cut of my jib, and they said, okay, you're the guy, and they said, here's what we'll pay in. It wasn't much, but it was a nice extra bit of money. I said, let's go. And that was it, 24 years later.

So then they were going to make this move where they were going to take that whole morning show and add a role for me, and then they couldn't quite get the two main guys, Bob and Brian, to come over, so they didn't. And so they said, well, we'd still like you, would you like to do a full-blown morning show of your own? And I said, yes, because it's like going from being a, you know, a coordinator, a special teams coach, to getting a head coaching job. And so you can't say no to that.

And it's been great so far. I hurt for the fact that the football team here in Washington is in such a terrible drifting state of incompleteness in so many ways. And I do follow along. And I do want to talk to you about this today because I am eager to hear your thoughts on it. But these latest reports that, oh, no, the sale could be in trouble. I'm wondering, is this just the last spasm of delusion? Or could this really happen?

Yeah, I mean, I want to get to that too because I want to get your thoughts on the sale. But one other quick thing about, you touched on it a little bit. But what are the big differences? Like, what are the big differences with the listeners in Midwest Milwaukee versus East Coast, D.C.? they definitely don't have the mean edge of your east coast savages. Right. Especially not Boston, New York, Philly, to a lesser extent, D.C. You know, they're very much, oh, well, okay, Aaron Rogers, he's going in the dark.

Okay, that's weird, but all right, still like him as our quarterback. We'll see. You know, so there's a niceness to them that is Upper Midwest, which is a wonderful quality of the people, from the Upper Midwest, not just Wisconsin but other places. So there's that that permeates the fan base. The Packers obviously matter tremendously. But what's interesting is that the Packer fan base, especially the ones that go to the games,

because I went to every game this year at home. First time, Kevin, I've ever been to every home game of an NFL season. Have you ever done a complete set of eight home games? Well, yeah, because for years we had season tickets and I didn't miss a game. Oh, you did? Okay, so yeah. How many years did you have seasons? with the reds? Oh, I mean, my father got tickets when the stadium opened. I was going to every single home game from like five or six years of age on. And I think really that would be in the late,

that would be in the mid-70s. Yeah. And so I, and essentially it started to get old for me when I started to have kids and like you know, when they're starting to have activities on weekends and you can't go. And then obviously, what was the last year? What was the last year you went eight? Oh, it's, well, I mean, considering that I did the pregame show from every single home game. No, no, no. Not counting that. As a fan, what was the last year? Oh, wow.

Probably, I would say maybe that 2000 season. I think that 2000 season was the last one. No, I think I went to every home game the Marty year. No, I didn't go to the last game of the year when it was pouring raining on Christmas Eve. I did not go to that game. So it's probably, it's probably, it's probably, 99 or 2000 is my guess. But I didn't, every single year I didn't go to every game, but a lot of years I did.

Well, the first time I've ever been to a whole set of eight home games. And I both liked it and I also hated a lot of things about it because the NFL is such a TV product now. But what I liked was just getting the feel and the vibe of who the fans are that actually come to the games. And what happens with Packer fans is, yes, there's a big chunk that comes up from a Milwaukee. Fair enough. But they come, Kevin, they come out of the farmlands, and they come out of all the small towns in Wisconsin from literally all over. And they come like pilgrims. They've been fans, they've been ticket holders for years and years and years and years. So even though we are the flagship station, the number one sports radio station in Milwaukee, the larger city in Wisconsin,

and they have the biggest chunk of fans that go up there, it's not like people are stopping you every two feet because so many of these fans, they're coming from Nina. Jamesville. Sheboogne? Ashkosh. Shobo. Oh, yeah, exactly. All over the place.

And it's just that they're Packer fans, and they love the Packers, and they love the Packers, and guess what else they're fans of? Nothing. That's it. Nothing. Yeah.

No, it's God family Packers, and making sure the farm doesn't go under. And there's not a damn thing wrong with that, but you have to kind of factor. that end sometimes to the equation when it comes to talking sports. You know, I don't know the answer to this. Where do the players live? They live in Green Bay during the season,

but very few live there full time year-round. Right. It's a wonderful place to live year-round. It is? It's the main. Really? Oh, it's a great place to live as long as you can get to June. The problem is getting to June,

And once you get to June, you only got half a summer if you're a player because you've got to report to work at the end of July. Right. So, yeah, there are some players, the lesser players will live there all year long because they're not making a ton of money. They want to make sure they stay with the team. They want to make sure to hit all the offseason programs. The star players, little like Rogers, they've got properties all over the place. Right. Yeah.

I mean, it is near Lake Michigan if my geography is right. So there's probably some beautiful places on the water near Green Bay, right? Yeah, but it's Door County. It's the Lake Cheboyans, the mouth of I should know the river myself, but Door County is where it's at. It's like the Hamptons of Green Bay. The Hamptons of Green Bay. It's beautiful. It's idyllic. It's iconic. It's a cabin at the lake. Life is good, again, but don't blink. You'll miss it. Montgomery College, the Harvard of Rockville Pike. What did you think about the Super Bowl?

I sat in stunned silence as the call was made, and I realized instantly, oh, shoot, the game's over. God dang it. I was so excited for what was going to be a white-knuckle minute 48 ride with Jailen Hurts trying to lead him to a game-tying field goal or game-winning touchdown. I don't like that call being made. I don't think it should have been called. Was it technically holding, of course?

First holding call again. I am stunned at the number of zombies that keep coming out of the woodwork with the you have to call it takes. Like, do you even sports, bro? Like, you don't have to call anything. There's judgment in every one of these subjective calls, holding, pass interference, unnecessary roughness. I don't think at that point of the game

that that call needs to get made. I think if he had tackled juju at the one on a perfectly thrown ball when he was beat by three steps, sure you call that. Not that, though. So I kind of feel like we were robbed. of what could have been a good finish. That was my take of the game.

The one call was the take. I know you were outraged by it. Well, there's more to it than that. Do you believe they should have called it? The biggest issue I have is what I always have with officiating, and that is I know coaches and players just want consistency. And they had let them play for three quarters and four-fiths of the fourth quarter, and they had let him get away with stuff.

So Bradbury's thinking, I can get away with some grab and hold and the whole thing. And then they flagged it. But it was a penalty that we see 50 times during the season. I mean, he was held. I just don't, I think that you've got to be consistent. And so, you know, people have pushed back on me on that. It's like, it doesn't matter. I mean, it was a hold.

And a hold in the fourth quarter is a hold in the first quarter. And my point is, yeah, but it wasn't in the first quarter. of this game. Right. In fact, Schuster got mauled by Bradbury on the third and eight in the first half where Kansas City on one of the drives they were forced to punt and they didn't call it. So that was the big issue that I had.

But the other one I had, and I'm just curious, I mean, Mahomes and Hertz, the quarterbacking play was incredible. What do you think Hertz did that day for kind of the perception of him or, you know, the elevation of to what tier level or what status level? as a quarterback. I think he's legit. I think he has solved the challenge of a athletic runnable quarterback that knows how to play the passer position in this league.

He made a couple of throws. The throw to Goddard, which by the way, gets ruled incomplete almost all the time, but it wasn't there, was an absolute ballsy throw on third and long. He made another great throw to forget who it was. He dropped it on a diving catch. Quez Watkins, yeah. Quesee, yeah, Quizzy. I mean, these are baller throws that are accurate, and he has the advantage of being a guy who can run, will run is tough and not afraid to do it. So I don't even know why there was some discussion of, well, do we pay them? How much do we pay them, you know?

Do we learn from the Wend's mistake? And I'm like, pay them. Like none of these quarterbacks are getting any cheaper. And the Wend's thing should prove to you that you can get out of mistakes. if you're honest enough to admit them soon enough. So I don't know why it's even a debate. Pay them in. It's just so funny when you said that. When you're honest enough to admit two teams, Philadelphia and Indianapolis,

that you've made a horrible, horrible error, just turn to Washington. And what team is never honest enough to admit mistakes about anything? Just turn to Washington, and they'll take care of it for you, and they will overpay you for your horrible, mistake. I do want to come back to that actually in a second because we're sitting here and we're recording and there's not an offensive coordinator yet, but there could be by the time many of you listen to this podcast and it might be Eric B. Enemy. But is Patrick Mahomes in his own tier

of quarterbacking in the NFL? Like if there's a tier one, tier two, tier three, that kind of thing, is he his own tier? I would say no. In terms of how good he, is. I think the other guys on his tier are close enough. I think he's the most compelling. He's the most creative. He's the most marketable.

But I don't think the other guys are that far behind. The notable guys in the AFC, mostly, because the NFC, aside from Hertz, is now in a kind of a down cycle, especially with the quarterbacks. I just think the chief overall as an

org and Reed as a coach, they're just better. And so that helps get Mahomes, you know, over the finish line. Right. I'm not, and it is not a diminishment of Mahomes in any way, shape, or form. I'm just saying that, you know, as good as he is, he bleat. He's beatable. And, you know, the chiefs just found a way to get it done.

They retrofit their offense to be a short passing game when they lost Tyree killed. They made that tough decision. They totally reinvented their offensive line after getting wiped out by the Bucks two years ago on the big game. So there's a lot of respect for the game. that, they pick up these discarded pieces like Cadarious Tony and shine them up and make use of them. I mean, this is all organizational smarts and strength and competency that is something that makes you very envious if you're a fan of another team that's not doing it as well as they are. No doubt. One of the quarterbacks that would be in his tier with some separation, I still think is Aaron Rogers.

Do you think he's still in that tier one? And then what happens to him? You don't. You saw regression this year? Not so much regression. Here's what I saw. First of all, I broke his thumb and then didn't really admit to it, which is a total Rogers thing to do. And did not throw the ball very well,

was adjusting to a couple of rookie wide receivers. So it was a down year for him, still a pretty good year. I think he's still, when healthy, he is the best pure passers still in the NFL. Can throw it through, you know, a tiny little dollhouse window pretty much any time to want. That said,

I think Kevin, he's the least physical. QB1 in the league this side of maybe Kirk Cousins and even Kirk will run and get his nose dirty. The position now, as I've noticed around the league, and you too, I'm sure, is that the QB1s get their nose dirty.

They run, they take hits, they go for an unshort yardage, every single one of them for the most part. Some of them kind of recklessly like Josh Allen. He probably runs too much and hurdles guys and gets knocked around. But Rogers now at his age is so contact diverse, it

really has affected his game. The backbreaking scrambles on third and long, you know, when teams are in man coverage and they all turn their backs and you run for yards and yards and yards. There were fewer and fewer of those. In fact, I think you had the fewest number of scrambles to the first eight or ten weeks of his entire career. And I think that's, I think that's something that has limited his game because now you've got to have really good pocket passing, pocket, you know, protection for him. And I just don't think it adds up the same way it ones added up. And then the larger question is, the guy's got to be bought in. You know, I think that there are players on this team that have to listen to him, say, well, you know, take my time this off-season, think about life, think about whether I want to play, make a good decision, going in a dark room, there have to be players, Kevin, on that team.

24-year-old guys going, what the, I'm trying to make my nut. I'm trying to make it in this league. I think football, I eat football, I breathe football, I am football. If this old man is so wishy-washy about it, why is you on the team? I've got to believe there's an element of just sort of annoyance that they would never admit to, right? Because, God forbid, you admit to that. Right, because he's... But don't you think if you want...

were a player and you had to sit there and listen to that shit and go, come on, man. I don't know. I mean, you would know more than I because you're there, you are not there, but you'll never say it. You live it. But he's so good. He's so good. He's so good. Used to be. Okay. How good was he in the playoff losses? That's the thing. I mean, yeah, he was rated for season good. He was pandemic year super nuclear, which is, when he won his second MVP, well, the first of his next two MVP's, but that was a laboratory condition.

Every quarterback's numbers were up because there's no crowds. So he's great. He looked old and cold, and the Niners came in with Jimmy Garoppolo in one arm and beat him. And he couldn't hit wide receivers. He wasn't reading the field, hands in his pocket. Didn't they have to block a punt though to beat him? Didn't they have to block a punt to beat him?

I think they did. Yeah, they did. I was in the end of the end. freezing to death, five degrees snowfalling, watching the punt and saying to myself, oh my God, did that just happen? And here's the funniest thing about going to games, and you know this, go to the games. You're not hearing the announcers, right? So you're watching what's happening on the field.

And whenever there's a big play that shocks you, there's a certain element of, wait, did that just happen? Because you don't have Joe Buck in your ear like you do on television. So it was thump-sump-thump, all of a sudden, Hafona-Tolonga is in the end zone with his big Samoan hair holding the ball along and I'm like, this is bad. This is, it just happened. We just have a block for a touchdown.

So yeah, so Rogers is good, but here's the problem with Rogers now. Anything that wants to trade for him has got to be convinced by him that it's good for at least two more years, not just one. Right. Because a one year, Rogers that might be disinterested,

only the most desperate and desperate, like say the jet would go for that. And maybe they will. I believe he's going to the Raiders. I believe he's going to the Raiders. Okay. I was going to ask you what... That's my belief. Okay. And, I mean, I have made the case for three years running. I would have traded for Stafford.

I would have made the run for Russell Wilson. Obviously, that wouldn't have worked out well. Yeah, it didn't. I would keep swinging big, and there's one quarterback that I've been talking about for three years. If he actually was available, I would 100%. 100% trade for Aaron Rogers. And I'd give up a lot. Because if Aaron Rogers had been on Washington this year, they would have won 11 or 12 games.

And they would have been a threat in the postseason. And I think if he goes to the Jets, did you say easily? Easily. Oh, yeah. But here's the problem. Here's the problem. He ain't coming to Washington. Well, I understand that.

I mean, never. And so therefore, even though he doesn't have a no-trade clause, he has a virtual no-trade, because you could just say I'm retiring. Okay. So he is going to be able to say yes or no to any landing spot. I don't even think he wants to go to the Jets, to be honest. So you think it's Vegas, not Green Bay, or New York? I think it's Vegas, Green Bay, or retire.

I don't think he wants to go to the Jets. The Jets are perceived as a rump B-side second fiddle in New York team, where, yeah, he'd be the hero if he lifted them to some kind of success. But it's playing for the Jets, and I know that Favre did it before him, but Favre knew that that was a lael. on his way to Minnesota, where he wanted to go in the first place. That one year was just a trick and then run around the retirement clause and the poison pill the Packers thought they had put in his deal

so he couldn't go to a division rival. And then the commissioner, your boy, Goodell, conveniently just ignore the league's rules. Yeah, he just ignored the league's rules on that, and then he walks over to Minnesota, and they're like, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, what happened here? And they're like, yeah, that doesn't really apply. They just waived it off. But here's the thing. Just real quick, here's the thing.

He's not coming to a franchise that is ownership in flux that has a decrepit stadium that's voted the worst in the league with half full stadium. The fans of the other team occupy half of that half. It's an apocalypse here. Right. He got to understand that. He is not coming to a warm apocalypse, just like Russell Wilson had no interest in coming to a smoldering apocalypse. So the long road to get in this franchise to where it needs to be is got to begin with a new owner. And this is where I'm going to turn the table from ask you, Kevin.

Do you believe these reports that perhaps the sale is teetering on falling apart? Well, the guy that basically put that out, put that out on the show with me. I had them on. I heard your interview. Yeah, he wrote a story, and then I had him immediately on the podcast, this guy, Josh Cosman from the New York Post, who, by the way, had incredible pipes like he should be doing a radio show. He did.

I think he's going to sell the team. I think that he's probably telling people occasionally, I don't want to sell this team. I'm probably not going to sell this team. I'm not going to get the number for it. He's impulsive as hell. But the bottom line is, Zab, he can't, I don't want to say he can't afford to keep the team.

But he has all this debt. He has to build a stadium with his own money because nobody's going to help him. his family doesn't want, I don't believe, to be a part of this town or this team anymore. And 31 other owners hate his guts and one I'm gone because of what he's done to what should be a top two to three earner in the NFL and is now a bottom third earner in the NFL. And so... Yes, absolutely. And he can't even play with his toy anymore.

He doesn't go to games anymore. Exactly. How much fun? I've been asking this question probably of you for five, six, seven years. How much fun could he be having owning this team? But here's the thing. Here's the thing. He's been so detached. He's delusional.

And he's completely self-consumed. So he's never thought it was his fault or his family's fault. It's always been somebody else's fault. And he's always felt like, well, the fans are just frustrated, but they understand we just had a bad general manager. or we just had a bad coach, or we just had too many injuries. They're not blaming it on me. I think he realizes in more recent years how much everybody blames him for it.

But I think he was really, look, don't you remember some of those things we would go to and there would be the part of the fan base that Larry and those guys would say, see, pal, look, they all came out for Harvest Fest. And we'd be like, that's like one-twentieth of your fan base. It's the same people at every event. but they didn't see it there for a few years. I hear you. I just don't know where the path back to respectability is for Snyder,

where he can actually show his face at games, occasionally do a press conference to introduce a new coach, because that'll still have to happen every couple of years, probably, and actually operate the team again in a way that is fulfilling to him in any way, shape, or form. I don't see the path back on that. So I think that's the most challenging thing right there. He has broken his billion-dollar toy, and I think he's having a hard time of letting go of the pieces because, like you said, he's in denial.

But I don't know. You never know. You never know. I mean, what concerns me, and I've been talking about this for a while, and Tommy's like, oh, stop it. It doesn't matter. I mean, because Tommy's convinced every report and every lawsuit is so. damning. And actually, I think that House Oversight and Reform Committee conclusion was in some ways exonerating of him. And I think they certainly felt that way. And what concerns me, Zabe,

is like the Mary Joe White investigation comes out. And it's nothing but he said, she said, which he would hold his arms up in a V and say, see, I'm not this terrible person that the post has been telling you that I am. And, but, but it's, it's missing, it's missing the forest for the trees because the market's not violent. with him here, whether he's a, you know, whether he's guilty of all of these accusations or not, they're irrelevant. It's just not going to, it won't work with him here. And I hope the league recognizes that. So I want to exit question with you on this Snyder sale thing by asking you if you think he will or won't sell the team. We'll get to that. And I also want to talk to you

about Eric B. Enemy and why he hasn't been hired until maybe today or tomorrow by why. Washington. Zabe is joining us. We will finish up with him right after these words from a few of our sponsors. So I think he's going to sell the team. That's where I am right now. I think there's a high probability he's going to sell the team. I mean, there's so many reports, including the one that we've already referenced with this guy, Josh Cosman, who came on the show. I just think that ultimately it's costly for him to hold on to it. There are probably some personal reasons, family reasons. The league doesn't want them. I think he's going to. sell. What do you think happens? Okay, well, there's three options. Sell it with a smile of the

face for a big chunk of money. Sell it under the threat of imminent punishment by the league or sell it after a formal vote of 24 or more votes by other owners. That won't happen. Option three, I don't think, happens. So you don't think they got the vote to the stones and they don't want to set the precedent of doing that. I believe that. Okay. Do you? So then I think, I think that's a great mystery right there.

I think that's a coin flip. I don't know if they do, but if he pushes him to the wall, they may have to. So he's either going to sell the smile of the face for a big number that he likes, or it's going to be under the threat of, dude, this is your last chance, sell. And then he's going to sell for maybe less than he wanted. I think if I were to bet, I'd say he's going to sell it. I don't know which of the two scenarios.

The other question I have is, what do the fans prefer? Are you okay with a silly guy, Josh Harris, owning the team? Well, he grew up here. A filthy guy. He grew up in Chevy Chase. Yeah, but he chose to live in Phil. Yeah, I know that. I think the answer to that one's easy.

Anybody. Anybody is better than Snyder. Harris or Bezos? I don't have an answer to that. I don't really have a preference. I just think the only... You don't have a lien? No, I don't.

I think the only way that this thing ever has a chance of becoming interesting to me again, because I don't have the passion that I used to have. You don't either. I mean, we've been honest about that. Snyder has to go. And then, by the way, we've got to pull the whole one-year commander's debacle on branding. I'm not saying that the Redskins will come back. We know that that ship has sailed, but it's got to be something else.

prefer just Washington being the brand. But by the way, I would suggest to- It feels like the commander's name is already been put on a mafia hit list by people, where they're like, as soon as we get this new owner, we're going to whack that name. Tommy's going to be walking in through the garage, and they're going to whack him right when he gets into that family room.

So, all right, so who's the third possible owner? There's a mystery bidder. I think, I don't know if I've seen. said this. So it's Harris. It's Harris, mystery bidder, and Bezos lurking, Bezos is not formally in, but he's got infinity money and interest in winning an NFL team, and I know that he was thinking about maybe I'll wait for the Seahawks, which would be my other choice if they ever become available. So that's kind of the three-horse race now. Good summary. Perfect summary. Okay. It doesn't mean somebody couldn't jump in at the last minute,

but Bezos would be the jumping at the last minute. The mystery bitter, by the way, I think is another sports owner, but not a local sports owner. Okay. So I think the answer is you want Bezos. Absolutely want Bezos. You want the owner with the most money. You want the owner that's got the most, you know, cutting edge sort of here's how we're to do things in a new kind of way kind of guy in Bezos.

You want a league partner in Bezos. He would be absolutely, I think, the best choice. Harris might be okay, but he's going to be straining to make the nut to get there because he's not as rich as Bezos, and that may affect itself in other ways. So to me, I'd be leaning hard on Bezos. I think one of the surprising things that this guy from the Post said is that the League really wants Bezos as an owner. I would have thought, and I didn't know the answer to this, do they really want somebody

that's so, so much wealthier? I mean, he's, I mean, he can outspend them on everything that doesn't have a salary cap. I'm sorry? Yeah, jealousy. You didn't shame the other billionaires? Yeah, he would emasculate them. But more importantly, he could completely outspend them on every meaningful thing that doesn't have a salary cap attached to it. I don't know.

Interesting. I don't know. I suppose maybe they'd be afraid of that to a certain degree. But he said no. But remember, he's spending a ton of money on the league. You know, so he's both a client of the customer if he becomes an owner. That's right. So we both think that eventually this will get sold.

By the way, your three options. Option number one, I don't think there's actually an option one. I don't think he sells with a smile on his face, no matter what the number is. I think he's always going to feel like the victim in all of this. This is the way they've painted themselves since 2020, when the first stories came out. So I think he's always going to feel like he lost something that was dear to him to his father to his family that he wanted to leave to his kids and that he was essentially forced to sell on a lot of stuff that he doesn't believe he is or he doesn't believe the organization was.

I want to ask you that. That's a sad story. Boy, I can hear the tiny violin in the background playing right now. All I want to do is I want to try to organize a modest flash mob to stand outside his mansion the day that the Beacon's trucks pull out of the driveway. I don't know when that's going to be. I don't care if it's the middle of the effing night. That would be the greatest visual ever to go viral if you could find a couple hundred bands to wave goodbye to his moving bands from it. Do you really think you'd have a hard problem finding a couple hundred? No, I think the bodies are not a problem. It's keeping an eye on when is the moving

that the house may be empty already right now. I doubt he's going to be. I think he's had it on the market for a while. Well, the Potomac house he has. He's still got the mansion in Virginia that he paid $48 million that is not on the market currently. But I think that will be... He's got $2.50 million mansion? Yeah, he's got the one in Maryland in Potomac, way out of River Road. And he's got another one in Northern Virginia that he bought just two or three years ago. And that's the one...

That's the one down by Arlington. Exactly. That's the one down by the mouth. Yes. So he can't... Wouldn't be funny if he bought $2.50 million mansion... That looked across it. from each other on the Potomac and get his binoculars and go, Spitters, look at my mansion over there.

Let's take the helicopter across. So I want to ask you about Eric B. Enemy because he may be hired by the time people listen to this. And I have just asked, I think of an obvious question, especially when it comes to this franchise, aren't there some red flags on this thing? like nobody's hired him. Everybody's interviewed him for the last three or four years. As I pointed out to Tommy and anybody else this week, it's not like he was interviewed for jobs

that eventually a minority candidate wasn't hired for because it happened in Miami, Houston, and in New York. And now the only team that appears to be willing to offer him a deal if it happens, and it's not a head coaching deal, it's an O.C. deal is Washington. What's wrong with the enemy? I think there's two things that are true here. One is that the league overall still has a ways to go. I agree. On its systemic balance of who gets opportunities and jobs. However, I don't believe this is a micro-targeted case of racism against only the enemy,

because there are their minority candidates who are getting hired, both as said, coach, Tamiko Ryan's and also coordinators, and even GMs around the league. So I think it's the case of there's got to be something in his personnel file, which I've heard rumors about, but I won't even try to speculate because I don't know what they are, but I think there might be a personnel file that's got a lot of those little red sticky flags, you know, that is you're leaping through like, oh, this, this and this, because sometimes guys are not good candidates. I think his obvious offensive chops are very solid as good as anyone else who should be given

a shot. Would he play well as a head coach? That's hard to say. Does he interview? Does he blow you away interviews or not? I don't know, but the commanders are in such a dire spot. They're probably going to take him anyway, and they'll probably take the job because Andy Reid doesn't seem to want to keep him. My first question was, so you're saying how great he is, why are you letting him go? Why are, why was his contract up? I asked the same thing. Like if he, if this is I mean, why didn't you extend them last off season and just give him the ability to walk for a head coaching job? Yeah. Right.

Exactly. And I think some people pointed to the fact that there's been some sideline dustups with Mahomes and that maybe they haven't gotten along real well. That maybe he's a bit of a combustible personality. I don't know. But I go back to the whole firing of Scott Turner. I'm like, why'd you do that? like you're sitting here in flux as a coaching staff with an ownership change that might be coming

what are you like who are you going to get now yeah I mean exactly I mean they've they've lost were you okay with the cashing out of Scott Turner it was a constant battle I didn't think Scott Turner sucked as much as the fans did but I you know my my the biggest reason Zabe was

he had eight quarterbacks in three years, and none of them were good. Not one of them was good. And so how much blame can you really put? But, you know, Cooley really pointed out over and over again his lack of the ability to kind of marry pass and run and think ahead and ski, you know. Cooley was never impressed with Scott Turner. Logan Paulson wasn't super impressed with Scott Turner.

I don't know. I thought he was kind of creative. And their football guys. I kind of defer to those guys because they know what you guys. I don't think he was that bad. I go back to the fact, look at his trigger men were, you know? Yeah, exactly. Eight different quarterments.

You made a ham sandwich out of 2020 where it's like he got J.D. McIssick, the ball in open space, time after time, at time, and made the playoffs with Heineke. Well, no, with Alex Smith on one leg for basically the, who started Heineke in the play-in-key in the playoff game, exactly. Right. Yeah, Alex Smith on one leg And then Heikey in the playoff Exactly

All right Well, this was good stuff What are you watching these days? You and I typically Like the same kind of shows What's your What's your go-to right now? Are you into anything?

You got any recommendations? Yellowstone. Oh, you like Yellowstone? Yeah. I do. I'm binging through it But I now have the Netflix series on the PGA tour

Full swing to consume in my spare time. I've heard that's great. Have you watched? the last of us. No, not my jam. What do you mean it's not? Zombies aren't my jam.

Yeah, but dragons are? See, I did this with Tommy. Yeah. Like, Tommy, Tommy tells me he would never watch Game of Thrones. And I told him, if you watched it, it would be one of your all-time favorite shows because you love shows with characters. And this is a show based on characters, not dragons. And yet he loved Stranger Things, which I did too with the demigrant. organs. Like, of course, there's a little hypocrisy there. Actually, I think you would love the last of us. I mean, I... Okay, well, yeah. But I'll think about it. We're in this soft spot after the

school before. That's why I asked. That's ramps up and then, yeah, this is, but I got, I got, I got a, and I got past shows, I got to plow through as well. And I got holes in my movie resume that continue to... What's your biggest movie hole? What's your biggest movie hole? Oh, Major League. Okay. I've got a TV show that's a major hole for me, which I've never watched. Yeah, Major League. Yeah, Major League and Remember the Titans. You never saw Remember the Titans?

Right. Yeah, you're going to watch. Everyone has movie holes. That's your area. That's your movies and sports fans they should watch. Okay, I know. And then TV-wise, I still have to get through the wire, which is shocking to many people because I love the Sopranos.

I love Breaking Bad. I love Game of Thrones. and I've watched The Office backwards and forwards and Seinfeld back and forward. You, so we have Family Guy backwards and forwards. We've always had the same favorite shows, except that I never watched Family Guy, and I just didn't. I was not a big Simpsons guy either, but, you know, for me, Sopranos, Breaking Bad Game of Thrones, the Office, you know, Tommy and I sit here, and we, every show, we've got a quote from some episode of the Office, but that's funny because.

Oh, it's fantastic, yeah. Because I've never watched the wire either. That's the single biggest, you know, whiff that I've got. I mean, how am I going to watch all this stuff with the Vegas Vipers and the Arlington renegades tomorrow in the XFL with Arlington laying two total 39 a half? My bookie promo code Kevin. Kevin D.C. Because I, too, because I, too, I'm a my bookie kind of guy.

So use whatever promo code you want, get that sweet, sweet XFL action. And, of course, the D.C. Defenders. Open at home Sunday against the Seattle Sea Dragons, their one point. I'll see at the tailgate party. It'll be a lot of fun to see the whole gang together again. Here's sakes for all, my friend. Here's thanks for all. All right, buddy.

This was fun. You'll be home, I do. All right, buddy. Bye. Zabe, everybody, always fun to have him on the show. And yeah, I'll return the favor. I always do. I've been on his podcast several times as well.

And you can listen to his podcast, the Zabe podcast anywhere you get a podcast. and of course follow him on Twitter. At Zabe, C-Z-A-B-E. Last thing on the show today. So I've told you before that subscribing to the Athletic is a really good idea. For Ben, for all of the local reporters, for the local teams, for David Aldridge, who writes for The Athletic, writes national stories, writes local stories.

Well, 40 years ago, this weekend, Sunday is the NBA All-Star game, and it will feature Team Janus against Team LeBron, however they do it. I don't have much interest personally in the NBA All-Star game or any of the NBA All-Star activities, even though I'm actually somewhat interested in rooting for Kevin Herder, who is in the three-point shooting contest. Herder, former Terp, having a really good year for Sacramento, who's having a really good season so far.

But 40 years ago, the All-Star game was played at the Forum in Los Angeles, and Marvin Gay sang the National Anthem. He did it in a very unique, soulful kind of way. It was controversial for the time. It is, in my opinion, flat out, hands down, the number one greatest version, sports-wise, at a sporting venue or a sporting event of the national anthem of all time.

Whitney's in 1991, you know, during the Gulf War for the Bill's Giant Super Bowl down in Tampa was great, it was awesome. There's nothing that was cooler than Marvin Gay's rendition 40 years ago this weekend. And David Aldridge and Marcus Thompson II wrote extensively about it in the athletic. And it's a great story with so much detail about how the whole thing came together. The NBA back then really relied primarily on the local markets where the game, was taking place to handle all of the particulars of the All-Star game. The league didn't run the event really. So a guy by the name of Lon Rosen, who was the director of promotions for the Lakers

and the Kings, he was also the EVP and chief marketing officer of the Dodgers for the last several years. He is now. But back then, he was the director of promotions. He was 23 years old of the Lakers and the Kings and the forum working for Jerry Buss. And the selection lawn made initially was Lionel Richie. He wanted Lionel Richie, who had just left the Commodores to go into a solo career that was very successful. And for whatever reason, the commissioner at the time, Lawrence O'Brien, said no to Lionel Richie. So Rosen went with Marvin Gay, called up Marvin Gay. Garvin Gay, Marvin Gay said, sure, I'll do it. And then came, really, I think, the fascinating part of the story.

So they had a scheduled rehearsal of the anthem the day before the game. And Gay came in before the game, and Rosen tells the story that they did the rehearsal, and it was six minutes long. And so he said to Marvin Gay, hey, we've only got two and a half minutes. to do this. You've got to shorten it up. And he said that Marvin wasn't really focused on what he was saying. He was kind of turning around. He was, you know, kind of not really paying attention to Lon Rosen because what they rehearsed was not what he would end up performing the next day. He didn't want to give them kind of a clue as to what they were going to do or what he was going to do because, you know, even he probably had a sense that there was the possibility that it was

going to be controversial. It wasn't going to be sung. like the traditional national anthem had been sung. So Lon Rosen says that Marvin's just kind of looking around, looking around, kind of ignoring him. One of his handlers comes up to Lon Rosen and said, hey, stop, leave him alone kind of a thing. And Marvin Gaye just ended up, you know, looked over to Lon Rosen and said, look, I got it. I'll come back tomorrow with a shorter version.

And Lon Rosen said, the game's at 1230, 3.30 Eastern, 12.30 Pacific time. can you get here like 11 o'clock and we'll rehearse it? And Marvin Gay said, fine. Well, he didn't show up at 11. He didn't show up at 1115. He didn't show up at 1130. He didn't show up at 12th. He didn't show up to rehearse it.

He didn't want them to hear the version that he had put together before he did it live. At that point, they could do nothing about it. Marvin Gay shows up literally at the last minute, according to the Aldridge and Robinson's story, Marcus Thompson's story, excuse me, the Aldridge and Marcus Thompson story. Shows up at the last minute, hands Lon Rosen a cassette and says, play this, and I'll sing the anthem. So, Rosen tells the story.

You know, he walked down the aisle of the forum, dressed to the nines, handed in the cassette. They sent it up to the building sound end. engineer. And then he belted out one of the greatest versions, this is one of the smoothest versions of the national anthem of all time. And it's great this story has so many different quotes from players who are in the game that we're watching this. Marvin Gay, for those of you who don't know, is from Washington, D.C. And a year later after this, he would be murdered by his father. I think many of you probably know the story. But Marvin Gay, for the time, was one of the greatest voices, one of the real influential musicians.

His album, What's Going On in 1971, is one of the real impactful albums, whether you want to call it soul or R&B, I mean, hell, rock music. You know, it's one of the all-time great albums, music albums of all time. And he was from here, you know, grew up in Washington. And this is what it sounded like when old Lon Rosen sent the cassette up to the sound engineer and Marvin Gay with sunglasses on inside the form out in L.A. belted out the National Anthem.

I'll leave you with that. I'll be back on Monday. Marvin didn't try to be magic or charismatic and all that. He just was. Even when he sung the National Anthem, I mean, it was Marvin Gay. You know, it was just unique.

It was special. Can you see you?