The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terry: ESPN's 20th Ranked WR

Episode Date: July 15, 2026

Kevin opened with some responses to emails including one that claimed Kevin is sycophant when it comes to DMV coaches. Kevin reacted to ESPN's WR Rankings which had Terry McLaurin as the 20th best in the NFL. Mitch Tischler (Monumental Sports & JP Finlay Podcast) jumped on to talk about everything Commanders as well a debate about where what areas should be considered part of the DMV.   For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match   Ready to do your own spring reset? Join Thrive Market with my link www.ThriveMarket.com/SHEEHAN for $20 off your first three orders plus you’ll get a FREE $60 gift.   Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Head to www.Chime.com/SHEEHAN. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.   Search Whatnot—W H A T N O T—in the App Store, download, and you can start selling right away. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. He is Kevin. I've got one guest on the show with me today. Mitch Tishler will join me a little bit later on. Mitch does really good work for monumental sports,

and he's a part of J.P. Finley's podcast. I enjoy Mitch. He will join me later on. Window Nation is the presenting sponsor of this podcast. If you need new Windows, 86690 Nation or windownation.com. No Tommy again today. He was dealing with a bit of a family situation,

but I think all is well. And we should have him back tomorrow on the show. This from P-dub-91 to open up the show. P-W-91 writes, Kevin, you're such a sycophant when it comes to coaches. Turgeon, Dan Quinn, Ron Rivera, Scott Turner, Jay Gruden, the Shana High. Have you ever criticized a head coach on air?

I'll hang up and listen. PW91 was, I'm sure, responding to my segment at the end of yesterday's show where I defended something that Mark Turgeon said over the weekend. There was a quote from Mark Turgeon bashing Maryland basketball. that was, I felt, taken out of context, but it blew up a very small portion of social media, the Maryland basketball portion of social media. And it was, you know, a quote that was part of a larger quote in which I didn't think he was really intending to say literally what was carved out.

If you want to listen to that, you can go back to yesterday's show, and it was just a few minutes at the very end of the show. But P. Dub, I've definitely criticized coaches before. I for sure have criticized coaches, especially, you know, in the wake of games in which mistakes from my standpoint were made. I've done that a lot with even coaches that I've really liked a lot. I mean, I criticized Mark Turgeon a lot in the wake of, you know, the way he handled maybe a game situation.

thing on the day after a game. I remember specifically, you know, them playing Michigan in Ann Arbor, and it was the end of the game, and Michigan was down, and there were like four seconds to go, and he didn't put anybody on the ball, which made the in-bounce pass very easy. Michigan ended up scoring, winning, and I thought, you know, anytime under five seconds, you really should put somebody on the ball to make sure that that pass has to go into the back court rather than making it easy to throw it from the baseline into the front court. And I remember other times criticizing Turgeon, but overall I thought Mark was an excellent coach.

And I think he'll do a really good job in his new spot out in Kansas City. I've definitely criticized coaches. I have P-dub. I was not a big fan of Scott Brooks. You know, as the Wizards head coach, I thought they made a mistake moving on from Randy Whitman, who was absolutely a better X's and O's coach than Scott Brooks was. Scott Brooks was not known for his exes and O's acumen, not at Oklahoma City, not in Washington. It's not why he was hired.

Scott Brooks was a players coach, and John Wall and Bradley Beal and some of the other players wanted a change, and Ted made the change. I thought it was a mistake because I thought Whitman really did a good job. I think his teams were very underrated in terms of how well-coached they were. And I thought, you know, the sideline, Washington sideline, had an advantage with Randy on the bench. And I didn't feel that way with Scott on the bench. I understood the hiring. And I understood why Scott Brooks had success and why he had some success in Washington.

he was very good as kind of a leader and a players coach and keeping the atmosphere light. He did a good job from that standpoint. I just preferred Randy Whitman as a head coach. And I wasn't a big fan of that hire. I obviously was not a fan of Jim Zorn going back to those days. I mean, for all intents and purposes, I said so many days on air with Tommy. that this guy's just not head coach worthy.

I didn't even think he was offensive coordinator worthy. On Rivera, on Rivera, I was positive about the hire in 2020. I was positive because, A, he was a decent coach in Carolina. I thought Carolina's teams were always very disciplined, tough, physical, and they were. and then B, given the state of the franchise, you know, in 2020, I just didn't think they could do any better than Ron Rivera. I don't think anybody wanted this job unless they didn't have any choices. And Ron Rivera didn't have many choices. And then on top of that, Snyder gave him the opportunity to be a coach and a GM.

I'll still contend to this very day that his coaching wasn't terrible. Wearing two hats as the coach and the GM was not good for him and it was not good for the franchise. He was a lousy general manager. That's just a fact. He was bad at evaluating talent. He was bad at acquiring talent. He was just a terrible general manager. As a head coach, I actually think some of his teams, you know,

know the 2020 team late in that year, the one that went seven and nine and made the playoffs. But I'm talking about with, you know, some of the games they had to win the way they were playing. The 2021 team for a good stretch of the middle portion of the season, you know, heading into December before they got hit with the COVID bug. You know, that really derailed that season. They got to six and six and we're playing pretty good football. And I thought really he was getting from that team more out of less. The 2022 team was definitely a more out of less team for the majority of the season going into early December

when they were two games above 500 and solidly, solidly a playoff team until, you know, they weren't. And he thought they still had a chance to after losing to Cleveland when he started Carson Wentz. The 23 team, his last team, look, he was a lame duck going into that season. That was one terrible football team, one of the worst in franchise history, the 2023 team. But I would still say that given how bad of a GM he was, how bad he was at acquiring talent, and then the limitations he had at quarterback, I would say that more often than not during the first, three seasons here before he became a lame duck coach after the ownership change, that they got more out of less.

Yeah, I believe that. I didn't love a lot of his in-game coaching, situational football coaching, for the most part, but I thought, you know, for long spurts during 2020, 2021 and 2022, there was some, you know, football results that did not match. what they were putting out on the field, talent-wise. They were inferior, talent-wise. And I did think Scott Turner did a better job than most of you did. You know, bottom line for Ron, you know, thinking about Ron Rivera, I don't know why I'm going deep into the Ron Rivera era here, but he wore two hats and was terrible wearing the GM hat, obviously. But let's also face the

reality of Ron Rivera coming to Washington. He arrived. in 2020, COVID hits, the organization is in turmoil, the organization loses its name, he feels pressure, by the way, to give Dwayne Haskins a shot, despite his better judgment, really, and then on top of that, he gets cancer. And nobody in the organization, when he's there, is capable of speaking on behalf of the organization about all of these other things that have nothing to do with football other than him. Because Snyder is under investigation after investigation. He's facing congressional pressure. He hates, by the way, speaking publicly anyway. They make an absolute horrendous hire in Jason Wright.

And he starts to get in Ron's way. Those two couldn't stand each other. I think most of you know this by now. Jason Wright wasn't exactly popular inside the walls of Ashburn's team headquarters. That was a disaster of a hire, and everybody in town that had any contact with him or anybody in the organization knew it from the jump, that that had disaster written all over it. Ron didn't enter a healthy situation, and then he himself became unhealthy. look, it wasn't good here under Ron Rivera. I'm not suggesting that, but I'm also saying that I'm not sure anybody else could have succeeded during that time frame. You know, nobody before him did in, you know, slightly better circumstances. I was supportive of the hire, though, at the beginning, I was,

but I think I called fair shots on him as, you know, as his tenure proceeded. I crushed him for a lot of his in-game decisions. I ripped him for a lot of the ways he handled things publicly. But yeah, I didn't mind the hire when it happened, you know, in early 2020, January 1st, January 2nd, I think it was, when Dan Snyder stepped to the mic and said, happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Yeah, I was a fan of Mark Turgeon, no doubt, P.W. And I still am.

I'd like to think I know a little bit about basketball, and I'm confident in saying that Mark knew what he was doing. I think Kevin Willard knew what he was doing. I think he was a good coach. Anyway, sick of fan. Not really, but a fan of some of the coaches we've had in town over the years. Yeah, and of course, no bigger fan of Mike Shanahan. I'm talking about in the moment when he was here 2010 through 2013,

and the staff that he had around. them than yours truly. That is true. That may have borderlined on sycophantish. All right. I am recording the open to this show just as England and Argentina are getting underway. I hope England wins. I got this email from J. Vargas 7. J. Vargas 7 writes, I knew something, and by the way, I knew something like this was coming. I knew and said it on the show yesterday that people are going to write and say, you're unsophisticated when you talk about soccer. Jay Vargas 7 writes, Kevin, just listened to your analysis of Spain beating France.

You said it was a snoozer. Yes, I did. Your soccer analysis puts me to sleep. The game was a strategic masterpiece from Spain. Stick with American sports. J. Vargas 7, trust me. Be patient, my man. Just two more games to go. And then you won't hear any soccer talk for me for another four years. I did compare yesterday's game to like a 17 to 3 football game. I think maybe I said 17 to 7. I, in talking in football terms, I said Spain dominated the

line of scrimmage, ran the ball well, one time of possession, and didn't make it. any mistakes. Mistake-free football. Some of those games can be impressive, but also boring. And I thought yesterday's game, at least for me, the dopey American sports fan, I thought it was dull. I did. Here's a nice email for today. It's from my guy Seth in Potomac. Seth writes, Thank you for the recommendation on the Everett Navratilova. Netflix documentary. I really enjoyed it. What a rivalry and what a friendship.

I'm cheering for both of them to stay healthy. Yeah, Seth, it was excellent. It was such a good documentary. For those that missed my discussion about it on yesterday's show, it's called Chris and Martina the final set. By the way, somebody tweeted me a link to a story that Chris Everett's cancer has actually come back. That news broke before the documentary came out at the end of June.

So prayers for her. I have not watched any of the Netflix quarterback show yet. I will. I will. I have heard, and I thought this was a possibility going in, that Joe Flacco and the Flackos are so far the best part of the show. There's a video going around where Joe Flacco's son and wife admit as they are sitting in the stadium watching their husband and father quarterback. I think it was Cleveland early last year.

They both admit that they benched Joe in their fantasy leagues before one of his starts. hysterical. I've been told so far no big takeaways on anything from Jaden, but I'm still looking forward to watching it. All right, take a quick break, and when we come back, the ESPN

position by position top 10 breakdown voting got to the wide receiver group today. So where did Terry come in? We'll talk about it next. after these words from a few of our sponsors. If you're tired of the following bad combination, inflated grocery prices and unhealthy shopping,

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My Friends at My Booky continue to offer all of you, listeners of this podcast, a betback bonus. if you go to My Bookie and you wager on a World Cup game. Now, there are only two more games following this semifinal game today between England and Argentina. There's a third place game Saturday in Miami featuring France, who lost to Spain, against the loser of today's game. And then, of course, the final is on Sunday. Your first wager at My Bookie on a World Cup soccer game includes a bet-backer. bonus of up to $500. What that means is you go to mybooky.com or mybooky.orgie.ag.

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It hits, you win, it loses, you get the money back. But you have to use my promo code, Kevin D.C. MyBooky.com or mybooky.orgy.org. Either one works, use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. By the way, this third place game in the World Cup, they've been doing it for years, it's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? What kind of motivation after losing a World Cup semi-final game yesterday to Spain, does France have, or the loser of this game?

Not to mention you got to play it at Hard Rock Stadium in Miami, where the temperature is probably going to be 115, 15, 15. feels like on the field. Do you know that for many, many years, although it's been many years since they played it, the NCAA tournament's final four losers played in a third place game on the Monday night before the championship game. I remember those games. Now, they were not televised. My recollection anyways, that they weren't televised. But when you got to the championship, game at 9 o'clock on Monday night, you know, in late March or early April, they had just finished playing a game between the two Final Four losers for third place. They stopped

playing that game in 1982. The last time it was played was in 1981. That was the final four in Philadelphia at the spectrum on the day that Ronald Reagan got shot and they actually considered postponing the NCAA tournament championship game and the third place game. The championship game that night was Indiana beating North Carolina, the Isaiah Thomas Indiana team, the Randy Whitman, Indiana team. He was on that national championship team and played in that national championship game and was very good for Indiana in that national championship game. When I had Randy on a few weeks ago, we talked about that specific game.

But that was the last time. they played the third place game and Virginia with Ralph Sampson beat LSU 78 to 74 in that particular game. Now, I understand why in the Olympics they play third place games because they are for medals. They're for a bronze medal. And I actually think somebody reached out to me and said, because I think I've talked about this before, or it came up in conversation on the radio show, that there's actually medals in the World Cup. And there's actually a gold medal, a silver medal, and a bronze medal.

Who knew? So maybe that's why they play it. The Olympics is one thing, you know, being on that Olympic stage, getting a bronze medal as a team. You got to play for that. I get that. But I don't know. It doesn't seem necessary.

All right. Today was wide receiver day for ESPN.com's rankings of position. groups, something they've been doing for seven years now, 70 voters, all of them, league execs, general managers, coaches, scouts, all league people voting through Jeremy Fowler's setup ESPN.com rankings of the top 10 players at each position, along with honorable mentions and then others receiving votes. This is list time of the year, rankings. time of the year, deal with it. I always, over the last few years, I'm always looking forward to seeing what the rest of the

league, or at least the executives and coaches, et cetera, in the league think about our own Terry McLaurin. Because let's face it, this has been a very hotly debated player since he became a really good receiver in the NFL. A lot of our fans think that Terry's been one of the elite receivers in the league, one of the obvious top 10 receivers in the league, and a lot of our fans who don't watch a lot of the rest of the league, they wouldn't take many receivers over Terry McCorn.

I have argued for several years now that Terry's really, really good. And I love having Terry McCorn on my team, not to mention the fact that beyond being a really good receiver, he is a phenomenal young man and has had to deal with some of the more, you know, tumultuous seasons in franchise history. And as we've all discussed many times, it's not like he had a quarterback that was throwing to him before Jaden Daniels arrived. But I've kind of always felt that Terry is not an elite receiver.

He's very good, but he's not elite. There's always been 8, 9, 10, 12, sometimes more. than that receivers that I would take in front of him. And this is the list that ESPN put together for this year. Now, I think I guessed yesterday or the day before that Terry would not be in the top 10. I did not feel like he was going to be in the top 10. I thought there was a chance he could be on the honorable mention list, depending on how many receivers were on it. This list includes the top 10 receivers and then six honorable mention of the number number number mention of the number number receivers and then 10 receivers that are in the category of also received votes.

So let me go through this list. Number one overall, Jamar Chase. Number two overall, Justin Jefferson. I do think that those two receivers are the best receivers in the NFL. And there's no debating how elite they are. They are future Hall of Famers, you know, barring serious. injury. They're just different in many ways. There are a couple of other guys that certainly are pushing in that area, but I have felt for a few years now, those two, Chase and Jefferson, are just better than everybody else. Jefferson was, this is the second straight year of Chase being at number one. He got 70% of the first place votes. One NFL head coach said he's the best I've ever gone against. He can break it for 80 at any time. That's true. He is something else

after the catch. He is, my preference is Jefferson. I think Jefferson is one of the best route runners I've ever seen. He creates an unbelievable amount of space with his route running. He is one very, very easy target to throw to. Number three on this list, a guy that wasn't even ranked last year, Jackson Smith, Nijigba. JSN had just an unbelievable breakout season. Puka Nakua was fourth. I think I'd have him at third. I love JSN.

I think Nakua is dominant. He was an honorable mention a year ago. Number five is Amman Rae St. Brown from Detroit. He is a special receiver. Let me just say this before we get to the second five. I think those are the five best receivers in some order. I mean, I'd have Jefferson ahead of Chase. I might have Nakuwa ahead of JSN.

But I think right now in the NFL, those are the five best receivers. I agree with the voting. Six is C.D. Lamb. Seven is George Pickens. So two cowboy receivers. Pickens, by the way, now it's official. He will play. under the franchise tag of $27.3 million for one season,

because today was the day in which the deadline to extend players under the franchise tag came and went, and they did not extend him. So George Pickens, this time next year, will probably be playing on an outrageous deal somewhere. Although he's got to play well again because he is a bit of, you know, at times a headcase. And I think that's why Pittsburgh wanted to get rid of him. He came in at number seven.

Nico Collins from Houston came in at 8. I'm a big Nico Collins fan. His big issue has been staying on the field. A.J. Brown came in at 9. Man, in a Josh McDaniels offense next year with a guy who can throw the football like Drake May, I wouldn't be surprised if A.J. Brown's backup higher. He was at number 5 last year. but I'm still off put by the way he went out in Philadelphia.

One of the most gutless performances in that playoff game against San Francisco. He looked like he could not wait for that season to end. I thought it was a despicable, a disgraceful performance in that playoff game and would worry me. Now, new place, new, you know, environment for him, a great offensive coordinator. He'll probably have a big year. He came in at number nine, at number 10, Devante Adams. At 33 years old, he's the only receiver in the top 10 in his 30s. Man, two Rams receivers, Adams and Nakuwa, two Cowboys receivers in Lamb and in Pickens in the top 10.

Now we get to the Honorable Mention. Now the Honorable Mention receivers, there are six of them. They're listed in order. I am pretty sure of how they got voted. So even though there isn't a number next to the receivers, we can assume that the first honorable mention receiver is 11, the second honorable mention receiver is 12, and so on. Because they're not listed alphabetically.

They're not listed by division or by conference. They're listed, I feel pretty confident in saying this, by how they received votes. Number 11, the first receiver on the honorable mention list, is Malik Neighbors. He's coming off a really bad injury, an injury where a lot of people believe he may not play until the middle of this upcoming season.

I think Malik Neighbors has the talent. Hopefully he is healthy to be in that elite-level area of the top five. I do. Out of all of the other receivers outside the top 10, he's the one that it's not going to surprise me if we're talking about in two years, Chase, Jefferson, you know, somebody else, and neighbors. After neighbors, Mike Evans. Mike Evans is out in San Francisco now.

I'm a big Mike Evans fan. What a big target gets open, makes every big catch. I mean, this is a guy, and I think most of you know this. This is a guy that since he's been in the league, has never had a. season until last year when he got hurt in which he didn't go over a thousand yards. I mean, this guy for 11 seasons in a row went for over a thousand yards, and then he got hurt last year in Tampa, and that hurt them significantly. But Mike Evans comes in as the second honorable mention receiver or number 12 overall. And then came a surprise for me, but I looked at

his numbers and wow, what a start to his career. Zay Flowers comes in on the honorable mention list overall the 13th best receiver in the league. Followed by Tyree Kill. Obviously, without this injury, Tyree Kill would probably still be in the top five, top three maybe. But serious injury reporting on this is indicating that there's concern that he may not be back at all this year. Following Tyree Kill, I'm a fan of Drake London, and apparently the leagues, coaches, GMs, and scouts are as well. He comes in at basically number 15 overall, the fifth receiver on the honorable mention list. He's a big target.

He's got great hands. He's phenomenal in the red zone. Now, is he a massive vertical threat speed-wise? No, but he's a good vertical threat. He comes in at 15, followed by Jameson Williams, Detroit. He's the last on the honorable mention list or the number 16 receiver in the NFL. Still no Terry. Now we get to also receiving votes. And again, they're listed in an order that can only be construed as where they got votes. So we'll continue numbering them. The first receiver

listed is Alec Pierce, Indianapolis, Washington pursued him at the beginning of free agency. he comes in essentially at number 17, followed by T. Higgins. I think T. Higgins on another team is a number one might be higher on this list. I think he's that good. Higgins comes in at 18. D.K. Metcalf next at 19. And then Terry McClure comes in on the also receiving votes, the equivalent of number 20 in the NFL among receivers.

He is followed by Garrett Wilson, Devante Smith, Ladd McConkey, Brian Thomas Jr., Jalen Waddle, and Chris Olave, rounding out what would be the top 26 receivers based on the votes of GMs, front office execs, scouts, and head coaches around the league via ESPN's surveying. So Terry at 20, I think it's too low. I have felt for a while Terry somewhere between, you know, 12 and 18. I've had him as high as 12 or 11. I've had him as low as 18. I would put him ahead of Jameson Williams. I'd take Hill out of the equation for right now.

Who knows if he's going to play football anymore? Now, if Tyree kills healthy, obviously I'm taking Tyree Kill, even at his age. But I'm going to take him out, so that's two spots for Terry. I don't get the Zay Flowers. The numbers are there and the youth is there, but I'm going to put Terry ahead of Zayflowers. I'm also going to put him ahead of Alec Pierce. I think Alec Pierce is good.

I'm glad our team didn't pay him what he ended up getting from Indianapolis, although it wouldn't be bad to have an Alec Pierce out there right now. But that's four guys right there, which would elevate for me, Terry, from 20 to 16. Now, I do think there are two receivers behind him that I think, I think Garrett Wilson I would take in front of Terry. And I'm a Chris Olive fan when he's healthy. And that's, you know, an if. But for me, Terry's closer to 15 than he is 20. I'd have him probably at 16 or 17.

on this list, not at 20. I would have had him among the honorable mentions. But, like Jaden Daniels in his fall from number five on the quarterback list to number 12 overall, out of sight, out of mind. This is a recency bias, you know,

uh, exercise. And even for the people inside the league, you know, what have you done for me lately and Terry missed seven games at a 17? And the 10 he played in. He wasn't very good, nor was anything around him. He wasn't with his starting quarterback for most of that, and other really good players who could have been out on the field weren't. It was a disaster of a year for everybody, including him,

and that's why he's all the way back at 20. You know, I think there's a chance that this time next year, Terry will be higher on this list. I do. I expect him to be super professional, super in shape, not have the distractions that he had last summer. And assuming that there's relative health this year compared to, you know, the terrible health that they had last year, I expect them to be a good team offensively, even without

adding anybody else. On radio this morning, I did a call-in segment where in addition to getting a reaction to where Terry came in on this list, I also asked people to give me the name as somebody that's not on the list right now that you think will be on the list now. next year at any position. And I gave two names. I think Chigacanquo will be among the tight ends, you know, that he wasn't top 10, wasn't honorable mention, wasn't others receiving votes.

I think he could be there this time next year. And I think safety Nick Cross, two Terps I'm giving you, I think safety Nick Cross could be there as well. I think he is an outstanding in the box safety played very well last year. In the box safeties aren't going to get the PbUs, the past breakups, the interceptions that sometimes draw that kind of attention. But I think Nick Cross has a chance to be a really good player in Durante Jones's defense. I also think there are others like Addafi OA and, you know, there are other players that

Washington's got a lot of new players and there's a lot of hope for, you know, a guy, like Sam Cosmi could be in that conversation. I think he was on the others receiving votes for interior offensive linemen a year ago. All right, let's get to Mitch Tishler. We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors. Summer can really add up when it comes to how much money you spend, and it adds up pretty quickly. You know, a trip here, a dinner there, a couple of outdoor concerts later,

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Joining me right now is Mitch Tishler. Mitch, of course, works for Monumental Sportsnet, covers the team. It's a big part of J.P. Finley's Beltway Football Podcast, which you can get wherever you get your podcast. You can follow Mitch on X at Mitch underscore Tishler. I feel like when I have you on, we end up talking about other things that have nothing to do with the football team. And I'm going to start with that because I was just scrolling through some of your recent tweets. And it looks like you and JP maybe started to discuss how to define the DMV.

like actually who lives in the DMV and you tweeted out if you live in the district or a county that touches DC you're in the DMV otherwise not now I'm going to come back to that in a second this was a debate I want to say 10 years ago I think I was doing this show with Cooley

and Zabe and I got into an argument I think in the bullpen about what makes up the DMV. And I had said basically to Kooley and Zabin, you guys live so far away from D.C. Because Kooley lived out in Leesburg. Zayb lives out even further. You guys are closer to West Virginia than you are D.C.

You don't live in the DMV. I'm sorry. And I basically went through what I considered to be the DMV. And I expand it from where you, you say it is. So you really believe that if you don't live in the district or in Montgomery County, PG County, or what, Arlington and Alexandria County, you're not a DMVer? Yeah, I got a little bit narrow on the definition of it. The thing is, it's not a defined thing. And it's funny because this argument started between JP, myself, and one of our other

co-workers who lives down on Waldorf, Waldorf, Maryland, who claims that he's part of the DMV. And I kind of politely tried to tell him it wasn't. A day later, Barstool DMV tweeted out this concentric circle thing graphic on Twitter,

and part of that graphic had Baltimore as part of the DMV based on, you know, distances or whatever. And I think that the DMV is bigger than just the counties that touch the actual district, but it certainly doesn't go up to Baltimore. I don't think it goes as far west as Leesburg or Ashburn or as far south as maybe

Fredericksburg, which is, I think, where JP drew the southern line of it. I just think that folks want to be associated with the DMV, which I love as a native, as a person from Montgomery County and somebody who considers themselves from the DMV. But, you know, as the as the defined neighborhoods kind of expand and melt together. and it's a little bit harder to find where Rustin is versus Hesda or Rockville versus Bethesda or Columbia versus whatever the heck is up around there. I think it gets harder and harder to define it. But I think that if you're in one of the counties that touches it, it's an absolute that you

are part of the DMV. No, it stands or buzz. Well, yeah, that's a given. Do you remember when Bill Walton was trying to explain the DMV, the late great Bill Walton, And he basically said, and I may butcher this, but I think I have it right. He said, the DMV is Delaware, Maryland, Virginia. He said Delaware. I think that's what he said, if I recall correctly.

You know, it's kind of interesting, Mitch, and you're younger than I am. The DMV description was not a description 25 years ago, I would guess. It was also, we all always referred to it as, you know, the D.C. metro area or just D.C. Like when I'm traveling and somebody says, where are you from? I say Washington, D.C. I actually live in D.C. But for many years I lived in Maryland. But I'll always say Washington, D.C. The DMV acronym didn't become popular.

I don't think until maybe 20 years ago. Maybe even soon, maybe even more recently than that. Have you been alive long enough to know that the DMV description is relatively new? Yeah, so, I mean, you know, I grew up in the 80s, late 80s, 90s, you know, so I certainly was around before, quote, unquote, DMV. And I'm the same as you. I say I'm from Washington, D.C. when someone asks me where I'm from, and then if they try and, you know, drill down on it, I'll get into the specifics of it. I'd be curious of kind of etymology of it.

To me, it started with kind of, for me, college basketball recruiting as we started talking about all the players in the D.

Gimbi, in the district area that started going elsewhere. And folks would say, well, he's from Virginia. He's not from D.C. And it was like,

or he's from Maryland, not from D.C. And I'm like, yeah, but it's all, you know, that area, this small little area

of, you know, call it a 20-mile circle, between, you know, the northern part of D.C., southern, east, west, is all kind of one, you know, different states and different districts, but it's all kind of one area. And so when I was, you know, rooting for the Terps growing up and going to games and, you know, as the big names started leaving the area and folks would argue whether, oh, why didn't that guy go to Maryland? You know, it was like,

oh, well, he's from Virginia, so why would he? But it's all, to me, it's all kind of one area. So to me, that's where it kind of started was kind of those mid-9. late 90s, maybe even early 2000, probably more early 2000s teams as some of those big-time players started leaving. Yeah, I mean, our closeness to sports would lead us into that answer. But I actually, when you said it, I think some of the early days of hearing DMV had to do with what you just said. And that is the recruitment of basketball players in this area.

We're probably wrong about that, but that actually is interesting. I'll tell you what we are not and have never been, and that is, you know, the greater capital region or anything with, of course, we live in the nation's capital. But the nation's capital's never been a part of the local description of where we live. You know, it was DC Metro or just D.C. and now it's DMV. By the way, so if I recall, the way I kind of defined it when we were having this conversation many years ago and what we used to call our bullpen area, which was outside the main studio at 980 when our offices and studios were in Rockville, I basically said, look, I mean, you take everything in and around D.C., the obvious Montgomery, PG, you know, Arlington County, Falls Church, Alexandria is a county, I believe. Fairfax doesn't touch DC, but Fairfax to me is definitely part of the DMV.

I also think that Frederick is a part of the DMV. Maybe you cut Frederick in half the county, but a lot of Frederick is a part of the DMV. And then to me, when you got out to beyond Dulles Airport and you're talking about Western Loudon County, you know, Falk Here County, I remember, I don't know my Virginia. counties. Let me just be honest about that. I was like, you know, you're closer to West Virginia than you are downtown D.C. I mean, you know, it's interesting. You know, the football teams, players and coaches have always lived so far away from the D.C., true D.C.

Metro, you know, close in areas that they didn't get to experience it. Cooley and I used to have this conversation all the time. He never came into D.C. Players never came into D.C. They lived in their world at one Loudon and in Loudoun County and they thought they were living in D.C. And I'd say, no, you're not living in D.C. The people that are going to your games are from areas much closer to a big city that you're not actually familiar with. But, you know, the Capitals and the Wizards players and the Nationals players, they've always,

obviously lived close to where they work. So they've lived in and around close in D.C., whether it was D.C. itself or the close in Maryland or Virginia suburbs. But I think that that was, I think I basically said it's everything including Fairfax and some

of the counties. I think maybe I threw in a couple of the Maryland counties like maybe Charles and half of Howard and half a Loudon and half of Frederick, something like that. I mean, I may be you've limited it to a much smaller size than I would have limited it to and did limit it to when I had this conversation years ago.

Yeah, so growing up in Maryland, I feel more strongly about some of the Maryland takes I have on it versus the Virginia ones. Sure. And the one that I think that I, for you, talking about Frederick, Frederick is closer to West Virginia than it is downtown D.C. Well, sure. Harper's Ferry. Yeah, of course. Yes. Right there.

I don't think it extends west of the end of Montgomery County. I think even at that point we're getting a little out there with the northern, western, portion of Montgomery County. But this is something that you and I and folks from this area, whether you're from here or lived here for a long time, could argue in circles about forever. Yeah. In case our good friend, Darrell Johnson is listening, just agree with you agree with me that Waldorf is not a part of it.

Yes. I mean, look, I mean, I know that when we get east of this city into the Maryland counties going all the way down to the, you know, to Ocean City and Salisbury, I know that there are a lot of skins fans and DC sports fans there, but that's not part of the DMV. And when I hear people from outside the DMV try to put Baltimore into it, then you know they've, it's not only that they're not from here. I don't think they've ever been here before. As you and I both know, Baltimore and Washington are two completely distinct and separate cities and surrounding areas. We do share a love, D.C. Maryland anyway, with Baltimore of Maryland sports teams. And there is a dividing line somewhere in Howard County, somewhere in Frederick County, maybe. but no, Baltimore is not, you know, there's nothing about Baltimore that is D.C. and vice versa. I hope you don't have too many listeners out in Baltimore, but Baltimore is D.C.'s little brother.

We kind of tap them on the head and say, yeah, you guys are great out there. It's all good. There's a solid rivalry between the two. And I think that the bigger point, I had a lot of people coming on me on Twitter talking about, like, well, I'm a commander's fan, skin fan that lives down. in Blacksburg or whatever, you know, fandom doesn't have a defined border. You could root for this team from anywhere. Oh, sure. Yeah.

Routing for the commanders, reading for the skins and living, quote, unquote, outside of the DMV is totally okay and everyone is welcome on board. It's not a, there's no, you know, border to this thing. Yeah, none whatsoever. Um, all right.

Enough of that. Uh, let's start with what the conversation's been about for, you know, at least a month and a half, maybe a bit longer. And that is, you know, the perceived need for adding to the wide receiver room. Where are you on what will happen? You know, what will it look like when we get to the opener September 13th against Philadelphia? What will the wide receiver room look like? I personally don't think they're going to bring anybody else in. I think the group that they have is the group that they're rolling with. And I do think that they've done a decent job of raising the floor of the wide receiver room

with guys like Diami and Van Jefferson coming in. I think you look at, you know, how devastated this group was last year and some of the names that they had to trot out there. And quite frankly, they're fine practice squad players. They're fine emergency players. But they were getting far too much runtime for a team that had, you know, real expectations at least running into the year. I think at this point, you know, there are some names out there, obviously, the Steffig's of the world, you know, and that's that group that I think folks get excited because you, you know, hear the names.

But ultimately, anyone that they do bring in at this point, I think is a bonus. And I don't think you should really expect that they're going to come in and have a really big role. I do think that a bunch of these guys are going to be available in case a guy like Trelinberg does end up. getting hurt and you have to bring in, you know, a vet. And I think that you can look at the Dandre Hopkins of the world and think, you know, I don't know that he's going to be on a roster as start the season. I guess we'll see here in the next couple weeks. But ultimately, you know, I think the Terry McCorn and Trelawn,

Berks and Antonio Williams Trio as kind of your top three is going to be, you know, the group that is going to be on the field the first time they go through, they go three wide this season. And quite frankly, I think if they really felt like they had to, make a major move. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a late July move. It would have been a move during the three-free agency

or they would have maybe been a little more aggressive during the draft time. We saw Jane and Daniels run this offense incredibly efficiently with arguably a worst set of receivers two seasons ago when they made it to the NFC championship game.

Ultimately, the success of this offense is going to come down to to Jaden Daniels, which obviously with most NFL teams does boil down to the quarterback. But I don't think this receiver core is a detriment to the success of this team. I'll come back to your description of or your comparison of two years ago to what maybe they have right now. But were you, I had Kime on yesterday, and I've, you know, everybody that's listening knows how I have felt all along the way on the Brandon Ayuk thing. just FYI six weeks ago, I thought it was a given that he would be on this roster by the beginning

of the season. And now I think the chances are slim and none, even though there's, you know, you never say never. He might be able to repair his image, who knows. But I think it's, I think that train has left the station. But did you think like I did and like Kime did and maybe others five, six weeks ago that there was a pretty good chance that Brandon Ayuk was going to be on the roster? It certainly felt like the momentum was going there. Honestly, from the beginning, and I feel a little vindicated about it now, I said that I am interested in bringing him in, but I'm interested in bringing him in to meet with Adam Peters and Dan Quinn and find out, you know, where his heads at and where his games at

and where his health is at. I didn't think it was a foregone conclusion that he was going to sign because I think there were real questions both with his health, which honestly, as much as, you know, you want to point back to some pregame workout video from, you know, almost a year ago, 10 months ago, versus, you know, how much work has he actually been putting in? How much work has he been doing? I'm not saying he has or he hasn't.

We just don't know because we haven't seen it. At least with Stefan Diggs, he's posting the workout videos and showing that he's in shape and showing that he's, you know, working out and working his way back. it's been a long time from brinna you just played football in the NFL and you take all the off the field stuff you know and and push that aside for one second to evaluate whether you know his leg his knee his ankle are in good shape ready to go and he's going to be able to step out and be the football player that we saw you know basically two years ago and then you pile on top of that everything that happened you know in san francisco i think warranted at minimum a conversation with the guy to find out you know was when you Was it warranted, in his mind, was it warranted, or was he just kind of being a, you know, a diva type receiver? And I don't think that there has really been, you know, any sort of conclusion to that. The social media antics have been what they are, aside from the little barbs back and forth between him and Jaden,

I don't think that anything that he's done on social has pushed it to a point where he's unsignable. Certainly, I need to have that conversation with him. I need to have a conversation with Jaden to see, you know, what his thoughts are. on all of it, but I think that if he becomes available and honestly from the beginning, though, it's kind of my biggest point was if he was ever going to become available because he seemed

so hard to that I'm not doing anything with San Francisco and if he's not going to engage with the 49ers, obviously they have no incentive to get rid of him. So I always thought that it was, it felt like the momentum was pushing there, but I was never, I don't think I was ever

that he was or he wasn't going to be here. Yeah, what's interesting about what you said, is that yes, I actually think a lot of what he's done on social media becomes problematic because it makes it a much more

polarizing, you know, signing if you get to it after kicking the tires and you've got to have the stomach for it. But I think more, much more importantly than anything that's happened on social media is his lack of action, his lack of seriousness. And that's

an indicator. And something that I'm not saying, I don't think anytime somebody has talent, there's very little that they can do to disqualify themselves. We've seen that over the years. But the fact that he has not taken any action to actually affect the impact that he has claimed to desire would be a big problem. You know, you went back to 24 and you said maybe this is even, you know, that 24 may have been worse than what they have now. I'm not saying that you're wrong, and I don't disagree with you. Time will tell I don't really know one way or the other if that'll play out that way. But the one thing that I think gets overlooked, and I'm curious as to what you think, is in going back and looking

at 24, you had a Terry McLorn who was two years younger. This is now Terry McClearn two years older. I'm not saying that there will be a big difference between 26 and 24. He was great in 24. I actually think the odds favor. He'll be in the best shape of his life. He's such a pro, and he'll have a really good year as long as he's healthy, and the quarterback's healthy. But they had Echler, they had a big red zone target in Ertz. Noah Brown actually, when he was out there, was effective and a favorite of Jadens. So I'm not so convinced yet that 26's supporting cast as is is equal to or better than 24's. You think what?

Yeah, I mean, I disagree with you. I think Terry is a similar player today that he was two years ago. Obviously, we saw last year for the first time in his career, you know, real health concerns. So maybe there's a little bit more of a concern there. But I think Chickicomco is a more dynamic version of Zach Earth. Obviously, Zach has a ton of, you know, veteran savvy in his game. but I think he's a

much more explosive player than Zach is. I think he gives an offense so much more in the middle of the field. And then you look at the, speaking strictly of the past catching the room, you know, Alamedes Dekias, Noah Brown, you know,

the Army Brown, Luke was a rookie that year. I just think I look at this group and it's a little bit more of an established group behind them. I'm high on Traillenberg. But I think that, I think Trailing,

Lennbergs and Noah Brown are semi-similar in their general inability to stay healthy. I just think Traylon is a better receiver than Noah than Noah was. And I'm intrigued with Antonio Williams. I certainly would rather have a rookie Antonio Williams than journeyman Lomede Zakias there. And Diami and Van Jefferson on the back end of the room, I think, give you, you know, similar to what Diomi gave you two years ago. They give you a dynamic downfield threat, you know, from either or both of them. Luke McCaffrey is, you know, more mature. He was a rookie vet.

He was a rookie in 24. He hadn't really ever played receiver. He's at least grown a little bit. And I think that Luke can be a really nice piece to an offense. I think having to rely on him like they did at times last year was probably a step too much for Luke at this point in his growth and maturation as a true wide receiver. I think that he gives you, you know, a little bit of size and certainly some nice downfield options in certain spots. and Jill and Lane is, you know, I would say you're, you know, kind of other guy in the group. But ultimately, I think that the group of passcatchers, I don't think that Austin Echler is so much better than what Rashad White is going to give you out of the backfield catching the football.

So I think those two can, you know, kind of be a wash there. I just like this group a little bit more because I think it's similar to the group they had in 24, just a little bit more seasons. and a little bit, and there are a couple small upgrades along the way. I hope you're right, and I think there's a chance you will be right, and we'll see how it plays out. But it sounds to me like you think there's a good chance that it's Terry and Berks

with Antonio Williams as kind of the slot, and those are your first three receivers when they first go 11 personnel. Yeah, I think so. Okay. I think they're going to move these guys around a fair amount, which we've seen during camp in OCA's. But if you were to line up in a traditional Matt and 11 set,

yes, that's kind of how I foresee it. All right, quick break. Mitchell, hang around. We'll talk some defense after these words from a few of our sponsors. Ring for review this podcast. If you haven't done it already, it's really easy to do. Five stars is the best case for us. If you think the show deserves it,

it's real easy to just click the star account up to five. Follow this podcast as well, If you get a chance, hit the plus button or the follow button. We continue with Mitch Tishler. Let's flip it to the defensive side of the ball. This is a completely different roster defensively with a different coordinator defensively. You know, we don't know how it'll play out, the chemistry, the fit, the scheme, the whole thing. But it can't be worse than it was last year.

I don't even think you can be worse than it was. was in 24. What are your expectations, you know, here on July 15th of what this defense can do in 2026? To me, it starts schematically. I think those Joe Witt defenses were far too passive and far too easy to diagnose. And I think that's the biggest difference that Durante Jones is going to bring to the group, both the aggressiveness and getting after the quarterback in a lot of different looks, a lot of different fronts. You know, we had a, we talked, to Nick Allegretti during camp and he talked about how good it was for him and for Jaden in terms of trying to work on their discussion because the defense, even in mini camp and OTAs, were giving them so many different looks and guys were coming from so many different positions that it gave kind of the offense and offensive line a really good feel for kind of what game days are going to look like. And to me, if you're able to kind of start implementing some of that stuff, you know, this early. in the process.

I think that shows you just how different everything is going to be. I think it's going to be an interesting group to watch because ultimately I think they might give up from big clays because they're going to be bringing so much pressure. But at the same time, I think they're going to create more turnovers or create more opportunities

for turnovers because they're going to force quarterbacks into making quick decisions. And to me, you know, that's just such a fundamental change from what we saw the last two years where, you know, these guys would come out in their defensive sets and there was communication at the line of scrimmage as the ball was being snapped. So clearly what the coaches were trying to teach the players wasn't safe or they weren't cohesive

in terms of understanding what checks they were supposed to make. I expect to see a big difference in that. And then secondly, I think you're going to see a lot of, you know, fake looks. You're going to see a lot of safeties kind of creeping up the line and dropping into deep coverage or vice versa, corners coming from different angles. I think that part seven is going to be so dynamic in terms of getting out of the ball. I think the linebacking group year over year last year to this year might be one of the single most improved individual positions of any team in the NFL, particularly when you look at the speed and athleticism

that Sunny Stiles and Leo Chanel are going to bring to the table, not to mention, you know, I think finally getting Frankie Louvo back into a true linebacking position, which is where we saw him play well two years ago, his first year in Washington. Last year they asked him put his hand in the dirt and be a defensive end far too often, and that's just not what he excels at. So I do expect to see a much more aggressive defense. I think they're going to be much quicker. I think knock on boys, God willing, they're going to be better tackling and tackling.

And you're going to see. Well, they certainly sign better tackling. And certainly on the back end with somebody like Nick Cross for sure. This is such a training camp question, but we're two weeks away. But give me right now who leads the team in sacks and how many? Oh, that's a good one. I'm going to be hard for us to not go with AdoppaioA. How many sacks?

Let's give them 12 and a half sacks. I think that both him and Kalevon, Chase on, are going to have really, really nice impact in terms of getting to the quarterback. And we kind of forget about Doran's trying. I know. Yeah. Because obviously, he's going back for the ugly injury. But if he's able to be back once we get to camp and kind of as we get into the season, I think you have a

pretty dynamic group of pass rushers there. Not to mention Joshua Joseph who's going to be, you know, a back end pass rusher. But in those, you know, third and long situation, he is a big, big body. And one of the things during mini-camp OTAs that I really like was he has a really good bend getting around the corner kind of sweeping that end on the ground as he's trying to turn the corner on tackles. He could be a really nice piece too in a secondary role.

All right, we'll finish up with this. Give me a player on both sides of the ball that isn't getting a lot of conversation, even in our circles. And it can be a player that maybe it was already on the roster. It doesn't have to be a new player that you think ends up having. a much larger impact on the season than maybe we're anticipating right now. I think offensively for me it's Rashad White. Yeah, I agree with that. But watching him at camp is much faster than I expected, much quicker than I expected. And quite frankly, you know, a little kind of blown away the first time that we saw him.

The first practices they did were inside the bubble. And watching him gain ground on linebackers was really impressive. I think you get the kind of veteran savvy of a guy who knows how to carry the ball between the tackles, but also has a little bit of that burst on the edges where he can help you out a lot in the passing game. Not to mention he's one of the best pass blocking running back in the league. So he's going to have a really nice role. Defensively, you know, I've talked about this guy for a few years in a row now. So, you know, maybe at some point it's getting a little bit beyond.

but I think Jordan McGee could be a really nice piece in the middle of his defense. I don't think he's going to be on the field for even 50% of the defensive snap. But I do think that he is kind of the one kind of true traditional linebacker that you have on this roster in terms of size and downhill ability. Sunny Style certainly plays into that role too, but he's a rookie. So I think there's going to be some growing pains a little bit in reading and, you know, you know, and stopping the run. But I think Jordan McGee, when he was given an opportunity last year, showed enough of the sideline to sideline speed

and enough of the football instincts where he can really be, you know, a really nice run-stopping piece in the middle of that defense. I mean, honestly, I think of them kind of in people are going to laugh, but a little bit in the how Bobby Wagner was effective last year is in the role that I can see Jordan McGee being effective this year. Do I want to see him running with tight ends and running back? Not as much, but on short yardage downs or, you know, most likely run downs,

I really like the idea of Jordan McGee kind of in the middle of that defense being a monster that can go blow up a blocker and get to the running back or just straight, you know, get after the ball carrier. Thanks for doing this, as always. Let's chat before the season begins. Thanks, Mitch. Absolutely. Any time.

And, you know, if you want to argue about the DMV a little more, I'm happy to come back on and make my point. This time of year, I think it's more interesting. to most people who listen to this podcast. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks. Thanks. All right, that'll do it for...