The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terry McLaurin's ESPN Ranking

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Kevin opened the show with ESPN's just-released ranking of the best NFL wide receivers and thoughts on where Terry McLaurin finished. Howard Gutman on the latest Dan Snyder/Congress back and forth. Steve Sands/NBC & Golf Channel from St. Andrews on the Open Championship and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Chean Show. Here's Kevin. Two guests on the show today, both from Europe. Howard Gutman's going to call in from the south of France. He will weigh in on Congress's letter back to Dan Snyder's attorney with their response.

And we'll see whether or not Dan Snyder's offer last week on a couple of dates to be available by Zoom from Israel. to answer some questions will actually happen or not. So Howard will call in. And then Steve Sands will be on with us from St. Andrews, the venue for the beginning of the 150th Open Championship, the British Open, starting tomorrow. Steve Sands will be our guest as well. Looking forward to both of those conversations.

The show today is presented by my good friends at MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.com. A.G. Use my promo code. Kevin D.C. And they'll double your first deposit up to a thousand bucks. So use Kevin D.C. if something's already written in the promo code section, erase it, right, Kevin D.C. And they'll do what many places won't do, especially this time of year, which is double your first deposit all the way up to a thousand bucks. You put 200 in. You'll have 400 to play with. Put 1,000 in. You'll have 2,000 to play with. They've got all of the NFL bets up and available, all of the prop bets for the season, including the following prop bet. NFL regular season player receiving yards.

Cooper Cup is the favorite to lead the NFL in receiving yards at plus $7.80. So you bet $100, and if Cooper Cup ends up leading the NFL in receiving yards, you'll win $780. Justin Jefferson is second, Jamar Chase, third, Devante Adams fourth, Travis Kelsey 5th, C.D. Lamb's sixth. And as I'm going down the list, where will the first Washington commander appear? It's way down the list. Now, this is combined, you know, past receiving yards, meaning it's not all receivers. There are some tight ends in here. there might even be a running back or two, but I don't think before Terry McClorn.

But Terry McClorn is the first Washington commander on this list. 24 players down the list at plus 4,900. So if you bet $100 on Terry McClorn and he leads the league in receiving yards, you'd win $4,900. If you bet $10 on Terry McClorn to lead the league in receiving. yards, you'd win $490. He's way down the list, and that's where we're going to start. We're going to start with NFL wide receiver talk.

Why? Well, because ESPN's continuing their rankings lists of each position group. ESPN's been doing this for the last week. It is a list created by team execs. coaches and players. Fifty total voters submitting a ballot on a position group and those votes coming from front office execs, coaches, and players. So it is very much a peer and a more expert opinion on these position groups from the people in the game.

We talked about last week the edge rushers list which came out. Defensive ends and three, four outside linebackers. Chase Young was not in the top 10. He was honorable mention. The defensive tackles list included Jonathan Allen at number 10. No other position has had a Washington player. Although the running backs list did have Antonio Gibson as a play. player, not in the top 10, not among the three honorable mentions, but among the other three players

receiving votes, which means that Antonio Gibson was considered by this group as a top half of the league running back. Actually, if you add them up 10 and then three honorable mentions and then three other receiving votes, he was somewhere between 14 and 16. Because I think they list, well, maybe they list them based on the votes. And if that's the case, Gibson's name was listed last, so it might be 16th overall. Funny because last week we did the football outsider's story that had Antonio Gibson is the most underrated player on the Washington roster. Hell, I think at number 10 on the defensive tackle list, John Allen might be the most underrated Washington commander. But today, the list of wide receivers came out.

Top 10 list. Then they had several honorable mentions following the top 10, and then several others receiving votes. So, where did Terry McLorn fall on the list of the top receivers in the league, as voted on by 50 team? execs, coaches, and players. Number one, overall in the league, Devante Adams. He was last year's number one. He is also this year's runaway number one wide receiver in the league. He picked up more than two-thirds of the first place votes. One NFC execs saying, still the best, big,

athletic, runs all the routes, competitive. One AFC, personnel evaluator, his spatial awareness and route running feel are the best. There are times because of how good he was with Aaron Rogers where you could not guard him. Devante Adams, number one on this list. Number two, Cooper Cup after the season he had last year. Last year, he was just an honorable mention, didn't even make the top 10. This year, he's number two on the list. Jamar Chase, number three after just an unbelievable rookie season in Cincinnati. Justin Jefferson, an honorable mention last year, number four on this list. So you've got a guy entering his third season and a guy entering his second season that are number three and four on the list.

Tariq Hill, now in Miami, number five on this list. I still think that to re-kill is the receiver that induces the most fear into a defensive coordinator when game planning for an offense. I think the ball in his hands, he's the scariest player in the league with the ball in his hands. He comes in at number five on this list. Stefan Diggs comes in at number six. D'Andre Hopkins, number seven. Mike Evans in Tampa, number eight. Debo Samuel on the receiver list comes in at number nine,

and at number 10, D.K. Metcalf from Seattle. That's your top 10 wide receivers in the NFL. Now, what I've said in our conversations, there have been many of them about Terry McClorn, is that he's not a top 10 receiver. He's outside the top 10. You know, somewhere between like 11 and 15. I know I've changed it up, but the point is,

is I've not considered him to be an elite receiver. And I've listed the receivers before that I think are in front of him, and many are on this list. D.K. Metcalf has always been, and Mike Evans have always been kind of debatable guys, but everybody else on this list I've always had in front of them. Now here comes the list of honorable mentions, and they are based on vote count. So continuing after number 10, D.K. Metcalf,

the first honorable mention, which would make him, the 11th best receiver in the NFL on this list, is Keenan Allen from the Chargers. I think it's a conversation to have, but I think I would take Keenan Allen over Terry McLaren. Next on the list is a name we have debated a lot. I've said before, I think A.J. Brown is a bigger impact receiver than Terry McClearn is. Will the team execs, players and coaches that voted on this agree?

A.J. Brown came in next on the honorable mention list, making him the 12th best receiver in the NFL. What was written about A.J. Brown was, quote, to understand Brown's impact, watch the tape for last season's Tennessee San Francisco game in week 15. Brown threw up 145 yards on Thursday night football. He can take over a game. Incredible ball skills, said one AFC offensive coach. Put him in an offense with play action where he can get over the top and he can win. Violent, explosive style.

Yeah, that game, he literally on that Thursday night, took that game over. He comes in as the second honorable mention, number 12 on the list. At number 13, the third honorable mention wide receiver, Terry McClorn. So there you go. Number 13 on this ESPN list. This is what they write about Terry. Since entering the league in 2019, McClorn has averaged 1,030 yards per season, despite playing with eight different starting quarterbacks.

quote from an AFC offensive coach, very natural at the position. I wasn't high on him coming out, but I was wrong. He's really fast, polished, not necessarily twitchy, but he wins and he makes contested catches, closed quote. Another AFC scout, quote, I wish he had a good quarterback, so underrated, closed quote. that's the summary of Terry McClure, who is the 13th of vote-getter among the ESPN list of the best wide receivers in the NFL. By the way, behind him, Chris Godwin was next at 14th overall, Michael Thomas at 15th overall, C.D. Lamb at 16th overall, and Mike Williams from the Chargers at 17th overall. and then others receiving votes, Adam Thielen, Tyler Lockett, Deonti Johnson, Odell Beckham Jr., and T. Higgins.

You know, I like the spot Terry's in. Personally, I think you can debate that he's there with Evans, there with Metcalf. I'm not saying I would take him in front of those guys, but I think you could debate those two that are in front of them. But I think pretty much everybody else that's in front of them, you certainly can say, yeah, Terry's maybe a tiny bit behind. them. And I think of the guys that came in behind him, Michael Thomas certainly healthy is a guy that I think would be above Terry on my list. Not Godwin, not C.D. Lamb. Mike Williams to me is really, really good. So there you go. That's the just-released ESPN list of the best receivers in the league. Terry McClearn coming in. If you look at the honorable mentions,

13th as the 13th best receiver in the NFL. All right. Up next, Howard Gutman will join us on the show. And then Steve Sands after that. We'll get to both of those right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, there was another letter last night. This one from Congress, back to Dan Snyder's attorney, about the possibility of Dan Snyder appearing in front of the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

and per usual, a guy that will have many of the answers and many of the accurate predictions is our good friend Howard Gutman, longtime D.C. prominent attorney and the former ambassador to Belgium during the Obama years. So, you know, we had the letter last week from Karen Patton-C. Moore to Congress throwing out two dates for Dan to voluntarily appear via Zoom

from Israel in front of the House Oversight and Reform Committee. And then we had the letter yesterday from Congress back to the Snyders saying, we'd love to have you as long as you adhere to our subpoena and our ground rules. So tell me specifically what they wrote back to him and what you think happens next. The circus was just continuing. I'm happy to say what they wrote, but no one. should bother with what they wrote. It's what they meant. And they both have meant for a long time. Dan Snyder, the Snyder forces have meant for a long time. Dan Snyder will never testify.

And the House has meant for a long time. We know Dan Snyder will never testify. We're just trying to look good about this. And as both a commander's fan and a citizen who pays taxes in Congress, I think enough with both of them, they ought to grow up and move on. So here's what happened. to posture because you've got to have the last word of impostering. If you're either Dan Snyder or an overpaid attorney, both have the same incentive, get the last word impostering. The attorney wanted to make it look, or was ordered to make it look, the attorney for Snyder, as if Dan was always cooperative, the problem was on the hill.

So the attorney for Dan Snyder said, well, he's in Europe and he's in Israel, and he's probably in Pago Pago next if you're looking for a subpoena. But of course we want to help our country. We want to get to the bottom of what Bruce Allen did. So we will testify, but only voluntarily. If he gets a subpoena, if Dan Snyder gets a subpoena, he can be ordered by a court to answer every question. And when you're ordered by a court to answer every question,

you cannot do, as some suggest, simply say, I don't remember, or I'm not sure of that, If they could show that's the kind of question that you'd have to remember, even that would be perjury. Mike Deaver got indicted for lying in the grand jury for saying, I don't remember when the charge was. Of course you'd have to remember. So, Dan, if he got a subpoena, would have to actually answer questions. Like, what did you do with this person here? Did you ever do this there?

What did you know? Did you see this film? Did you see this calendar? he'd have to answer the questions. What Dan has generally done is whenever there's been trouble around, he's paid to settle it and gotten an NDA. So he can claim for anything that he's remotely worried about, there is a non-disclosure agreement somewhere,

and as long as he's testifying voluntarily, he can always give the answer, you know, I'd love to answer, but this is a non-disclosure agreement, and he could stay away from anything. uh... that would be anything anyone would want to know about in fact the only answer we'd ever hear is i think you need to ask bruce allen about that he must have done that one the other answers would be it's covered by a non-disclosure agreement

so dan is violent with dan finally volunteered to testify on two dates that were inconvenient for congress remotely where his attorney would be sitting next to him in israel the attorney would object to most of the questions and instruct him not to answer on the grounds that they're covered by a non-disclosure agreement. And the attorney would say this is past what's proper for due process, and the committee would learn nothing. But at least the attorney said we volunteered to testify.

So the committee, instead of saying, Dan, you weren't volunteering to testify, you were doing this, they said, we accept your volunteering to testify as long as it's by subpoena. Please let us know by 12 o'clock tomorrow. So they're posturing as well. If Dan really want to do it, he'd say, look, this committee is not looking to find any facts. They're looking to fry me. I'm not in the business of being fried. I'm not appearing.

And if the committee were there, they'd say, look, we know you're just going to posture. You're not willing to appear. We think that's unfortunate. But we're not going to engage in endless letter writing. But the circus continues. The circus continues, except for the future. I did think Dan would risk coming back maybe for the first preseason game, but you know whenever Dan steps on American soil, he is going to be handed a subpoena. And the question is going to be how certain is his attorney that they can move to quash and delay it long enough to get past this Congress to remind the listeners, the likelihood is the Republicans win in November get control of,

Congress, the committee chairs change. If the Republicans are in charge of the House Oversight Committee, they will drop this investigation. It is the majority that decides what's investigated. They will drop this investigation. And so as long as Dan has not testified by January when the Congress would change in November, it will be elected and will be sworn in January, he is home free and he can rest assured. If he comes back too early, he will get a subpoena. He will move to quash it, but could they possibly expedite the proceedings long enough that some judge actually orders him to testify? And then that would be interesting. So if I were Dan, I might make Super Bowl plans to be back in America, but not much before that.

So the timing of which, which I think you've said to me before, would be many months of being able to wrangle and haggle over the subpoena and the validity of the subpoena, et cetera, think if he came back too soon, given that we're not really talking about November, we're talking about January when they would actually be sworn in and the House and Senate would change, you know, at that moment, the House certainly would, or we're all expecting that it will, that he could be playing it a little bit too close if he comes back before the season starts. He asked me as a lawyer, when am I safe? I would say you should be safe now because they'll have the superiors.

We'll wait right till the day before you're due to appear and move to quash. And then notify them that there's a motion to quash the subpoena. It'll take a while for the judge, the district judge to hear it. Whoever loses, which means we're going to lose, we'll file a notice of appeal. That should take a while. So you should be safe now. But what if the judge who we move to quash calls a hearing the next day? Right.

And he denies it the next day. And then we file for our appeal and the Congress moves to expedite the appeal. There is a 10% chance. Like if this were, you know, if this were someone on death row, those appeals get done right before the guys do to die. And that's not normally the way the court is really going to expedite the Dan Snyder matter. But you could get a Democrat judge or someone who really does it. And then at the Supreme Court, they could kind of move for. you know, for it to be expedited fast enough for the court to say they're not accepted.

Now, the court's not in session now. They're out until October, but there'd be a one justice who would refuse to stay it. So it's at least conceivable that you get there before January. If I were Dan, I wouldn't cut it that close. What are Dan and his lawyers most concerned with if he did have to testify under a subpoena? So there is no prayer that Dan Snyder could get through that session without lying. And it's not that he even would say, I'm going to just lie. It's just that for all of us, the world, we see the world.

the way we want to see it. And Dan is so convinced himself over time that maybe, you know, that what happened on this particular incident and had not happened, did he really see the calendar, did he really what happened on the airplane, what happened on the other issues, that you cannot let Dan Snyder test. If you are a lawyer of the quality of his lawyer, you cannot let Dan Snyder testify and actually respond to those, questions and believe that he will get through it without possible perjury.

So if Dan Snyder did get subpoenaed to testify, I would for a large swath of it, tell him to take the Fifth Amendment. That would look pretty bad for an NFL owner. By the way, I've had, you know, in the history of my law firm, the best I can recall the law firm I used to be with, I can only recall President Clinton being. allowed to testify all the other witnesses who got subpoenaed in a where there's criminal overtures where there's you know under oath that you couldn't be certain not a routine deposition but a grand jury testimony we would never have them

testify in a grand jury and I used to explain that it was a I'd have him take the Fifth Amendment as a question of history and religion and the prosecutor would say what do you mean history and religion and I'd say well in the history of Williams and Connolly I don't think we've had a witness ever testified except for President Clinton. And they said, well, what about religion? And I said, if you do something that consistently over history, it becomes a matter of religion. So I would not let Dan Snyder testify in this case. And so how's it going to look for Dan Snyder take the Fifth Amendment? On the other hand, if he just says, I can't do that, as so many witnesses, as so many

people do, he gets himself in possible trouble. It'll be more than if he said, she said. And second, some of the things he's done, he doesn't want to answer yes too. I don't know particularly. I wasn't there on any of it. But I suspect where there's smoke, there's at least some fire. Even if we're exaggerating it by 10% by 10 times, the one-tenth is enough that I won't want to testify before Congress. Didn't Ali North take the fifth like, you know, 75 times, you know, with William. and Connolly, Attorney Brendan Sullivan representing him?

Like it became almost a mockery of those hearings. I don't remember how many times, but... Well, first of all, it's not a mockery. It's called the Fifth Amendment. Well, I know that. But it was incredible theater because my memory of it is he, you know, he just exerted his Fifth Amendment rights to almost every single question that was answered, right?

But you would need to. If you're going to assert the Fifth Amendment, then you need to do it pretty much across the board because the government's going to claim that you've waived it by answering almost anything. Once you get past your name, the government can claim you've waived if you begin to answer. You can't selectively choose. So you're basically, if you've done anything that can be, you know, criminal, you just take the Fifth Amendment. That's the government spurn to do there. But unfortunately, you're the owner of a football. football team, that will look bad on the league. It would look bad on the league if they reached out to other people and asked about their conduct, you know, I don't know what the Sean Watson's answered, but there's potential exposure there or Robert Kraft or the other, you know, incidents. Fifth Amendment is a right to be taken. It's just, it doesn't look good if you're an NFL owner. That would really create pressure on the owners about his ownership. And if he didn't take I don't think he could get through answering all these in ways that are historically accurate, if only because he no longer recalls it that way about himself.

If you hear people tell stories about their paths from 30 years ago, I assure you they don't look the way they were. No, and you've convinced yourself into believing that you're actually telling the truth. So why not just call as bluff completely and say, we accept your office, offer, we'll see on the 28th, without any subpoena mention, without any other mention. Why not just call his bluff? Obviously, we both know intuitively that the last thing he actually wants to do is be in front of Congress having to answer questions, even if he's taking the fifth. I mean, this is not what he is naturally good at, which is communicating. And so why not just call his bluff?

because it would be a victory for Dan Snyder if he were even a D student. You don't need to be articulate. You don't need to. Let's look up the setup. He is in the conference room in Israel, surrounded by his attorneys. He has no compulsion to ask anything that the attorney says, to answer anything that the attorney says you should not answer. So if it's a question about anything other than,

And if it's Tiffany Johnson, we both know that's relatively recent and he doesn't believe he did anything wrong. And Tiffany Johnson, that's the one. Did he touch her leg under the table? And did he kind of steer her into his limo after the event? And on those, he has probably pretty vanilla explanations and they're probably pretty accurate. He'll answer that. If it's about changes in the team and policies and the hiring of females and the hiring of blacks and the change in atmosphere, he'll answer those.

If it's anything else like the Beth Wilkinson investigation, the lawyer will say we would love to answer, but those are all covered by the NDA, and I'm instructing my client not to answer, and no one can move to compel that answer if it's not by subpoena. So Dan will come out. They will say the Redskins and Dan Snyder and the commanders and Dan Snyder have cooperated fully with Congress, producing X number pages of documents and testify. fine for six hours, and we will learn less than in listening to one hour of a Kevin Sheehan podcast. You and I have talked about the following several times over the last, you know, whatever it's been,

nine months a year, whatever it's been, about, you know, don't do anything that could actually create, you know, even a shred of empathy for Dan Snyder. And so once again, you know, Congress puts out this letter yesterday, and anybody that's paying attention can understand that this isn't a real offer because they know it's not going to be accepted. This is one, you know, press release followed by another press release to try to, you know, one up, as you described, I'm using a different term than you used. At what point does their consistent reveal that this is about Dan Snyder, targeting Dan Snyder, getting Dan Snyder, and it's not a not about, you know, creating a better situation for employees across America who face, you know,

the pressure of NDAs and sexual, you know, misconduct in the workplace. You know, once again, the beginning of this letter is all about Dan and the commander's, you know, misconduct scandal. At what point, like, would you have advised the House and Oversight and Reform Committee multiple times now to telegraph so obviously that this isn't about what their stated charter was. I don't even know if it would be called a charter, but what their stated goal was and really what their goal is to get Dan Snyder. To me, you know, it's too transparent.

Look, somehow in this country, we are able to make everything about party politics. We can make pandemics about party politics. We can make everything. The one thing I thought we could not make about party politics is that the Washington Redskins needed a new owner. That was whether you're a Democrat or a Republican. If you can watch football, you believe our fan base deserves a new owner. Our franchise, our story franchise deserves a new owner. And somehow, Congress was able to step in and convert it to a political issue. they converted so that if you are now Republican,

you are siding with Dan Snyder, even if before you thought FedEx Field was a wreck and this guy, you know, charging more for parking and getting rid of the Shanahan's and getting rid of Schopenhauer and calling the trades and drafting Dwayne Haskins when nobody wanted it. That had nothing to do with politics.

It had to do with our Sunday afternoons off from politics. And yet the Hill stepped in and made him sympathetic to half our country, of half the sports fans of half the sports fans are Republican. They have already made him able to now say to others at league meetings, I didn't get involved in a sexual harassment scandal. I got involved in a political dispute by our country. Yeah. And so the more and more they reveal this to be very political,

rather than what they had stated at the beginning it was about. You know, you do risk, at least like you just described, within league circles, creating the perception that he's been targeted unfairly. And that's not what anybody wants. Completely. Completely. When you're in a hole, stop digging, but what the Democrats did is they said we've dug this far, maybe we will hit China.

So there, keep digging. So ultimately, the advice would be stay out of the country because, as you've said before, it's not likely that a subpoena could be served to Dan Snyder while he's on his yacht in St.ropay or in Nice or in Monaco. Or in Israel or anywhere. It's not only not likely. It's not doable. So as long as no one has the right to accept the subpoena, Dan Snyder cannot be forced to

testify can't be brought in proceedings to enforce subpoenas and the Democrats have to fold. I would have not continued this. In fact, if I were, the Snyder for that I wouldn't have written that he's willing to appear, I would have just let it die, hoped some of the heat got back. Maybe it can't get back for the one preseason game, but maybe in time for the start of the season. But they keep escalating this. They keep hitting Caramolone and she keeps hitting back. they will make a scene whenever he arrives, as long as they are still in power of the Democrats.

Whenever he gets into the country, they will make a scene about serving that subpoena, and they will make him quash it. And the question is, if you're Dan, would you rather miss part of the football season and say, look, you know, pressing business above, I'd stay in Israel. I would think about that. I'd have Tanya at the games, whatever it might be. Or do you want to have to go through that time where they, you know, All the sports shows say, Dan got served his subpoena today.

FBI agent X&Y did it personally, then show the lawyers go in the court to quash the subpoena. I'd rather visit the land of Israel or Lake Como is probably nice in the fall or who knows what and watch my commanders play on TV. Why don't they subpoena Bruce Allen? They can certainly subpoena Bruce Allen. The problem is that they want to look down. someone from that bench and stare at them and blame them for all that happened. And nobody cares if they do that with Bruce Allen.

That doesn't get them anything. If they were actually wanted to know the truth, they would subpoena Larry Michael and Bruce Allen and the like and get more information. We've already established this is not about that. Yeah. All right. I'm going to end this with a question that I asked callers today. and it was something that Tommy and I somehow got to yesterday, not intentionally, but I brought up to him that my son had asked me over the weekend,

when did you know for sure that Snyder was a problem and that, you know, the team was probably never going to win as long as he was the owner? And we had, you know, it's July 13th, you got to come up with something to get people interested in a topic. And so I'll ask you as a long time fan of the team, you know, and by the way, with a different perspective, because there were a lot of people that you knew in the business community. And, you know, a lot of us have heard a lot of these stories and some of these, you know, horror stories for years. about their interactions with the team and with Dan. But can you remember the moment where you said, yeah, this isn't Jack Kent Cook. This is not going to work as long as he's still here.

So there's really a couple of answers. The moment I knew was the moment the league announced him as owner because I had kind of known about difficulties he had in the community. He made a lot of money on one business enterprise. But for example, one of the local country clubs that I know well had rejected his application for admission. And so I kind of knew he was buying the team for the wrong reasons. And that was confirmed pretty early. Immediately he started saying, let's buy all the high-priced talent.

So you had mixed emotions. On the one hand, I truly admire. This is a person who loves the Redskins. Dan Snyder loves the Redskins the way you love the Redskins and the way I love the Redskins. And that's something to be admired. And he was willing to do another thing for it. He was willing to spend money to do it. What he needed to understand is the fact that you're a rich guy doesn't make you a football genius.

Leave the football to the people who are good at doing this. Make some good organizational hires, get a good GM, and then stay out and enjoy the club like the rest of us. So what we knew is he was willing to spend, we appreciated that, but what we also knew is that he was going to meddle in how that spending was done. And you know that's a formula for disaster. A proper owner, the Roonies, the Roonies put the right people in place, empower them, and gender and gender community pride, and know enough to know that they can't tell whether a fullback looks right or whether you need a fullback or whether you can have two linebacker. or you need a Mike linebacker, and they certainly can't just say, I'll go on my golf string and get to meet Dion Sanders and all the cool guys I want to meet and use my money to bring them here when the rest of us wanted a winner.

So I knew we had a guy who had that kind of personality. I was glad we had someone willing to spend who loved the team, but knew that he can't break who you are, which is he could not sit there. So compared to Martin Shattenheimer or Mike Shanahan, how dare you think you know what you're talking about and they don't when it comes to football? And either one of them, if given a chance, if run professionally, this organization run professionally, given the chance and given the time, don't say I had to fire the coach because, yes, we were turning the team around, but I wasn't having enough fun. you're a proxy for 3 million people in the city and how many fans around the globe and you're going to fire a coach who's becoming successful because he doesn't let you have some fun. So, I mean, it was the first day, everything that happened since is consistent with it.

The good qualities I appreciate it, but the need to have it being partly about Dan more than it should. It should be about Washington, not about Dan, about the football team, about the players. the owner gets to bask and a glory created by a city. And that's the way it should be done. And I knew that wasn't who we had there the minute he bought it. You know, I often think about, you know, what he was like as a young businessperson and then, you know, selling the company that he sold for hundreds of millions of dollars. But, you know, early on, like the list of investors, you know, Mort Zuckerman and Barry

Diller, who, by the way, just as an aside, we, in a company that I was involved in, when he owned the home shopping network, this would have been 1990, somewhere around there, 1991. I was in a meeting with Barry Diller in the meeting briefly, but with Barry Diller's team. That was a long time ago about, you know, we were raising money at the time. Anyway, what do you think it was about him, where he was able to attract some of those investors? Well, it's not the person, it's the entity. There are 32 football teams, and there are more billionaires daily, and everyone wants to be near the gold.

You know, it's sort of, so once he had the, and if you remember, getting it was sort of an odd, situation. There were the Milstein's and him. Yeah, I'm talking about his early businesses. What about him do you think? And I know you don't know him, and I don't know him either. I'm talking about the early businesses. Long

before, you know, he had made his hundreds of millions off, you know, the sale of that company to, you know, the Italian company after they took it public or whatever. I'm talking about early on because he clearly

he had to have, the ability to really communicate and sell. Because you don't get angel investors like that with just a business plan. They invest in people. I'm just curious, and maybe you don't have the answer, what do you think those kinds of people saw on him? When he was at the University of Maryland, and he was doing that, you know,

volunteer to put up the ads for travel to go forth at spring break on the different billboards and the like. Right, the spring break. that was a young guy who was hungry, who wanted to make something and would, you know, would go run twice as hard and twice as fast, and is the kind of guy we all would enjoy. The problem is when you're so successful, so fast, you believe there's something special about you and nobody should believe there's something special about themselves. So he believed his own publicity, and that didn't carry to football. But I think I'd love to, I would give the team back to the Dan Snyder who was putting the ads on billboards back at the University of Maryland. He never would have told Marty Schottenheimer what to do.

He never would have told Mike Shanahan what to do. He would have said it's a pleasure to meet you, sir. And that, that, Dan Snyder is probably a fabulous Dan Snyder and someone to invest in and invest with. And I guarantee you, he said it was a pleasure to meet you, Mr. Dillard. Diller, not explain to Mr. Diller how to make money, you know, teach Mr. Diller how to make money the way you teach Mike Shanahan or Martin Schottinheimer how to run a football team. Good to catch up, as always. I know you've been traveling a lot abroad, and you were willing to take some time to call in from a lot of fun. I'm sure that you're having.

Keep, you know, enjoy the rest of your summer. I'm sure we'll talk again. And I'm just reminding everybody as you're listening to this, there is a noon deadline, and noon is not here yet on the East Coast. But the response is more likely than not going to be what Howard's described. In fact, I think it was exactly what Howard described last time when we did this. And then there was a response shortly after the podcast was published. Thank you, as always. All the best. Take good care, Kevin. All right. Great job by Howard, as always.

Up next, Steve Sands from St. Andrews, the 150th Open Championship begins tomorrow morning. That's next right after these words from a few of our sponsors. From St. Andrews, Scotland, my good friend Steve Sands, jumps on with us right now. We'll get to the Open Championship, which begins tomorrow. But you were on the call last weekend of the American Century Celebrity Tournament from Lake Tahoe. and I have to tell you that as a golfer, I find those things, especially if there's not a legitimate big-time event going on, to be very entertaining to watch. What's it like to call it? Kevin, it is so much fun. Aside from the biggest events in the sport, it's by far the best week of the year.

It is so cool to be around those entertainers and athletes, current and also really. retired. It's just a spectacular place while the entire country is steaming hot. It's 82, sunny, snow-cat mounds, beautiful lake, not a dime's humidity. And then you throw in the competition of it all. You know, it's fun to see these guys and the women compete out of their element, you know, realize just how difficult this sport is compared to what sport they play, where what they do as far as acting or being a comedian or being a singer, whatever it is. it's a blast for sure, and I keep getting myself in trouble. I'm not talking about Tony Romo on the air as if I'm on the skin spin.

And, you know, he won again for the third time in the last five years. But I was a good boy this time. I did not say anything negative about Tony and the Cowboys. I just played it straight down the middle. Well, tell everybody what you got in trouble for in one of the events previously, because not everybody knows. Yeah, you know, when you're doing play-by-play, you know, it's not my job to give my opinion. I get my opinion on your show or what we're having a beer or something, but, you know, on the air, nobody cares what I think.

So, and I don't think it's important to give your opinion. It's what the analysts are for. So 400BC, massive skin stand, commander's fan, and, you know, I hate the Cowboys. I mean, it's in our DNA. In 2018, and after years of trying to win this thing, Tony, finally won a toni's a very big golfer Kevin. I mean, it's very, very good golfers.

It's not a pro, but he's a very, very good golfer. Right. And he finally won this thing 2018, he was coming down the 18th goal and I'm in the booth. I say the phrase, and you know this being on radio and your podcast that we do a lot of these things for ourselves and for our friends and for our family

as opposed to for the audience, jokingly. And I said, quote, this will be the biggest win in Tony Romo's life. And I meant it as a skin fan knowing that he had never won squad douche with the cowboy. And I did not realize that other people in his camp were hear that. And they were less than enthused by me calling that. And he's made his feelings pretty clear on the subject.

with you previously, right? Yeah, I don't think he was too pleased to put it mildly. I mean, look, Kevin, I mean, if you can't have fun at that event, then you've got an issue. And I'm not talking about from his point of you. I'm talking about from the television point of you,

from our point of you, and from the competitor's point of you. There's only a few of those guys who could win that thing, but yeah, he was less than ensues with that call. Well, he won, and he played well. curious. This past weekend, who was the biggest draw? Oh, man, that's tough.

I mean, there's not a bigger person in entertainment right now that Justin Timberlake. Between singing, acting, and dancing, I mean, he's a spectacular talent. Justin Timberlake is always a huge draw. Charles Barkley's always a huge draw. Steph Curry, being in the Lake Tahoe area, about three hours east of San Francisco where the Warriors play. warriors chant every single step of the way, even if Steph wasn't there. And forget Andre and Yelis.

People yelling at Barclay about the Warriors, but I would say, you know, between Aaron Rogers, Steph Curry, Justin Timberlake, Charles Barkley, I mean, it's not in our genre, Evan, me and you at our age, but Nick Jonas was a massive star. You know, the Jones brothers? Yeah. I mean, people were following.

like, you know, like he was walking all water. But they're all like that. It's amazing to be around. You know, I got to spend some time with Joe Seisman. It's the one time of year I get to see Joe Seism. And we talked a lot about, you know, the organization. We talked a lot about the situation, you know, with Snyder and the commanders and the new stadium

and the team and the talent and then Rod Rivera and all these other things. But I think by far, it would be Justin Chamberlake. Steph Curry, Charles Barkley. But there's a lot. It's individualizing to be tough. I can't imagine anybody's bigger than Timberlick. How about Paige Spironic? I mean, I got to think that she's got a few fans out there.

She hit a T-Shed on the 17th. For anybody who's never seen Paige Spirannock in your viewership and your listenership, you need to Google her. And just so you know what Kevin's talking. Not me. You know what Kevin's talking about. I said she's a T-Shadow on 17. I think it was on Saturday.

And she went over to the fans to the left of the part three and was taking pictures or whatever she's doing. And I said on the air, it's hard to believe that she actually has a follow. And with that one statement, I kept hearing, easy now, easy now. Hang on. I'm like, no, I might say anything. I'm just saying it's hard to believe that she has a follow. Yeah, Paige.

What, man, Paige can play. Like, she's a good golfer. And, you know, entertainer. And obviously, she's a beautiful woman, which is all part of it. But at the end of the day, Kevin, she can play, man. She can really, really hit the golf ball. I'm corrected in saying this, right? She was a professional golfer briefly, right?

Oh, yeah. No, she's a pro now. She's still considered a pro, and she gave it a run. She played collegially. at a very high level, gave it a run professionally. And then, you know, look, with the advent of social media and the advent of all these mediums, you know, it's a great way for a lot of people to make a living. And she's taking advantage of that, and I give her all the credit of the world.

And by the way, she's a lovely woman. You know, she's really nice. She's cool. She's going to hang around with. The appearance is what it is. I mean, people are going to judge people on their appearance when they're that at I get that, men or women. But when it comes down to it, she can really play. She knows the game. She loves the game. She respects the game. And she's really cool. So good for him. By the way, just one last thing. Is there a requirement in terms of index, handicap index, to play in this thing? Because I'm assuming that Robert Griffin III is like a 36 or something like that. I mean, how is he allowed?

to participate, I mean, without threatening perhaps, you know, the crowds. Look, everybody in that field shanks a few, and I'm sure it could be dangerous at times for people in the crowd. But don't, I thought you had to be like a 15 index. No, no, no, there's no way. I mean, half the field, there's not a 15. He, um, I think that the danger zone, if you will, is kind of recognized by the fans. You know, they know who, you know, who they should stand away from

and who they should stand close to that kind of thing. I'll tell you something funny about Robert. Robert comes up to me, this little tentary left of 18 where everybody goes and hangs out and has a drink or has somebody to do, like the turn or before the round or after the round to kind of hang out.

And Robert is an enormous human being, by the way. Like, when you see these guys individually at a, no, no, he's... As opposed to you coming out of a huddle. Right. It's sort of coming out of a huddle or, you know, whatever, coming off the bench in the NBA, But you see these guys individually.

You're like, good Lord. Robert Griffin is an enormous human being. He's a large, large man. Anyway, he comes up, says hello. He introduces himself. And he goes, hi. Hey, you don't see him. I'm Robert Griffin, third.

I started laughing. He's laughing. I said, well, I think it's ironic that a guy like you is introducing himself to a guy like me who's from D.C. And I said, and he started laughing, and we start joking about, you know, 2012 and what it was like and all the nonsense of all. how great it was to have that year, could not be a more pleasant man. I have no idea what he's like outside of that realm.

No, he's engaging. Yeah, he's got charisma. I mean, he is really engaging, no doubt. Yeah. What a nice guy. You know what he said to me? Here's something. You know, you've got three sons.

I've got three sons, you know, for anybody who's a parent out there. I said, I joke with him about being introduced. He said, he goes, Steve. he goes, I was always taught. You always introduce yourself. You always make yourself present. I was like, I was very impressed by him. I really looked.

I'd never met him before. I've heard all kinds of crazy stories. Like they do. But he could not have been a nicer, more congenial man. And I think he's going to be a great broadcaster. If he continues on that path, I know he just got the Randy Moss job on Monday Night, you know, Monday Night Countdown, I think.

And I think he's well on his way to being a big-time TV. analyst. I think he's that good on TV and he's that engaging in person. No doubt. He's excellent on TV. He's a big time personality with great charisma. I've said before, I think that, you know, he would be really good in that, you know, environment. I think he obviously could be, has a career in politics if he would want something like that. But no, I mean, for all, for all that we've discussed, you know, negatively about him, and, you know, there was, you know, we weren't the only ones. I mean, teammates, coaches, the whole thing.

I mean, that experience is far different. I can remember multiple times sitting down with him until he didn't want to do it with us anymore. And I think he, you know, had had it with me and probably Tommy and some others at the station, you know, at a certain point. But always incredibly polite, incredibly engaging. and, you know, it's somebody that, you know, if we didn't do what we did and he didn't do what he did, you know, ultimately from, from, you know, some distance, you would have said, oh, my God, great dude.

And I'm not saying that he's not a great dude personally. Yeah. So anyway, let's get to the open. Just tell everybody what St. Andrews is like. I've never been there, and most of the people listening, I'm sure, have never been there, but it is the cathedral, certainly one of them, of the sport. What is it like? It's the greatest.

It is my favorite place in golf. It might be my favorite place in sports. The reason I think it's better than Augusta is because you only come here once every five or seven years. It's not every year. It doesn't get old. It never gets old here. And it's magical. The game was invented here.

Everybody knows that it's the home of golf. and the tradition here is incredible. They have, you know, seven double green, meaning that one green is two holes. Right. And they all add up to 18. That's how 18 became the number of golf holes eventually in the sport. You're right in the town.

It counts so a lot. I may or may not have walked around to the few pubs last night and enjoy the couple of beverages with the locals. And you can't do that anywhere else in the world. It's just right here. The golf course literally there's a park. So on Saturday, Kevin, I mean, I've played here a long, long time ago with my two brothers and my father. We're coming up 18.

There are people watching. You play off for amateur hacks because it's an open park like Rock Creek Park or like any other park in America. and on Saturday, in a practice round, Tiger Woods was with Justin Thomas, and there are about 150 people walking on the golf course, not on the side, not outside the road, walking on the golf course because there's an open park. And it's just a really cool place. You know the history of it. You feel the history of it when you're here.

When you drive in, it's about an hour drive, the closest airport in Edinburgh. And you just, when you keep closer to the town, you can just feel it. You can feel the history. I don't know what it's like to be around James Maysmith. You know, I don't know what it's like to be around the guy who invented, you know, football in America or baseball. But in golf, the history means so much to the sport. And it was all invented right here. And every time they come here, it's a massive celebration of the game.

And also this town, which is a college town, the university here in Scotland. It's just a lot. It's just a really cool. be cool. What will, the weather always plays a major role in an open. What is the projected weather for the next four days? It's supposed to be really good. A little bit of rain maybe coming in on Friday,

but the wind is not supposed to be up. But be a lot of sunshine. The golf course is really, really hard, hard meaning, firm and fast, not difficult. I mean the scores are going to be really low, Kevin. without the wind, without the rain coming inside ways, the defense of this golf course is absent. And I think that they're going to have a hard time this week,

keeping the scores up. And I think these guys are just so great that, I just watched Lori McElroy this morning, for instance, here in Scott. It's a five-hour time definition of you guys on the East Coast. And this morning I saw Lori McAle hit a two iron on the green of 18 to part four. I just watched Dustin Johnson and said, Varner about 30 minutes ago, hit three wood right to the center of the green.

The 18-10 to par four. There are a lot of holes out here where guys will reach the green in less than regulation, meaning par five and two or part four is off the tee. And I think the score is going to be really low. It doesn't mean it's not to be any, it's not to be entertaining. It's going to be incredible entertaining. It's going to be great. And their beauty of this place is that they don't really care what the score.

But now they don't want anybody to shoot 56 and 57, obviously. But no one's going to go that crazy. But someone could shoot, you know, 509, 601, but they really get hot. Because if the weather's not up here, this golf course isn't long enough for these guys. And it's going to be fascinating to watch. I mean, the last time it was there, I mean, the winning score, I think was 15 under, something like that, was the winning score. So what do you think the winning score will be this week? I mean, it's been going on for years, Kevin.

I meant to go to Ladbrook. There's a ladbrook's right around the corner from my hotel. I'm actually going to see that right after you to see what the total is, the over and under because I'm curious, and now that we're here and it's the day before, and we know what the weather forecast is. It's not going to speak out. Like, Nick Fowder won here, you know,

30-something years ago, and he was at 18 underpass, and they said, oh, they're never going to come back to the, for the old course and play the Open Championship, and you're a 150th anniversary of the year. They'll always come back to it. I would think that someone would get the 20-under. Wow. I just don't see how...

Brandon Grace shot a 62 few years ago. That's the lowest... In a major. Round in the history's major championship golf. I just don't see how somebody doesn't shoot 61 or 62 here. I just don't think it's possible that one or multiple players will do that. And I think the winning score, If I had to bet, are you looking up with the total?

Yeah, I'm looking on my bookie right now, and they've got just hundreds of prop bets, and I'm looking to see if I can find winning score of prop bet. I'll find it here in a moment. I think it's going to be 20. I think someone's going to get the 20 under. And that's not necessarily bad. It's just not what we're used to seeing major championship golf. But I do think with the weather being down, if the weather was,

up, you know, the winning score would be in a single digits at best. Right. But the weather, literally, it's a crazy high pressure system. You know, it was 85 degrees in London yesterday. You know, in France today, it's over 100. So Europe is in the middle of this crazy high pressure, and right here in Scotland, where the weather is usually miserable, Kevin, I mean, it's usually miserable here.

It is gorgeous, man. I'm looking, I have a T-shirt on right now and pants. You know, I mean, you're not walking around in shorts, you know, it's on beach weather. But it's warm, and it's 70 degrees, no wind, sunshine. It's totally anything I've got to keep here. I've been coming here for almost 20 years. All right.

Well, everybody knows that Tiger Woods is going to be playing there this weekend, and that apparently he had a really good practice round. I'm telling you, Justin Thomas is such a confidence booster publicly for him. Every time they're together, and I know they're very good friends, You know, you come away with a JT headline that says Tiger Woods looks like Tiger Woods again. I didn't see any differences in the way he was hitting it. But what's the truth? Is he a contender here or not?

Oh, I don't think he'll contend. I think he'll make a run and making the cut. And then that's pretty much it. Four days is a lot of golf for him at this point with his health and that right leg. you know these guys aren't golf clubs like me and you

Kevin drinking a few bears and telling stories that you know it's like these guys are walking so he's played he's been here

since Saturday um played a practice around played a lot of practice round today he only practiced he only went to the range and practice

punting games he did not go walk another 18 holes or another nine holes because it's just it's too difficult for him

so I think to me it's sad to say it because you never want to say that about the games greatest players, whoever they are. But at this point, in his career, as much golf as he plays, which is very little,

and the way his health is, Kevin, I think he's got a chance to make the cut. And then I just don't think he'll put himself into tension comes on it. If he did, it'd be miraculous. Now, the favorite golf course in the world, he's won it here twice. He won the career grand flame here in 2000.

There's no debate on whether or not he mows the golf course. The question is, can you execute? And I just don't know how he will be able to do that health-wise over the course of four days. So I think he'll make the cut. I think he'll finish somewhere around 25th. It'll be an easier course, though, on his body, right, from a walking standpoint. Oh, oh, by far, not only is his favorite golf course on the world. It's the easiest golf course for him to walk.

I guess the National is incredibly hilly. Southern Hills, where he had to withdraw. incredibly hilly. He did not play a Brookline of the U.S. Open because he said he wasn't ready to play because he just wasn't healthy enough. That's not a great sign. But yes, by far, this is the easiest walk

in all of major championship golf. It's a short golf course in relative terms. It's 73 hundred yards. It's not like it's short. But it's a short golf course in relative terms to the other courses in major championship golf. And it's by far the flattest. You might get some busy lives here.

You get it into a bunker, which These bunkers are like magnet. They have 110 bunkers on his droplet. They're only 18-olds. They're 110 bunkers. And they're like magnetal. So you could get a really goofy lie, which would not be great for him in his right leg. But for the most part, if he keeps it out of the bunker, out of the bunkers here, you know,

really flat surfaces pretty much all the way around and not a lot of funky lies. So I think that'll be good for him. Yeah, and he hits those, you know, low stingers. that work well there, even though you said the wind isn't necessarily going to be a factor. By the way, I found a 16 and a half, you know, a 16 and a half, you know, under par as an over-under-number number. So you clearly like the over on that. Yeah, I think they'll do better than 16.5. Let me tell you one thing about his finger, by the way.

So as I walked to golf course the last couple days, forget the wind. We had a meeting with the RNA As the host broadcaster, we get a meeting with the RNA with the rules officials and everything. And that was today at noon, he was local time. And Kevin,

this golf course is so hard, firm and fast. I mean, it is brick hard. And they love it that way. So that stinger you talked about with Tiger, I mean, forget the wind. He's not trying to pierce the wind here

with that singer because the wind's not going to be that big of the peel this week. He's going to get it to roll. But what that ball is, all will do, it will roll out forever. Yeah. Now, that means you can't stop it either, but it'll roll out forever. So distance will not be an issue for Tiger at all this week.

All right. So who do you like? I'll give you five names. Rory, incredible driver of the golf ball, and here matters so much because you're going to put yourself in a position for bird's and eagles a lot if he drive the ball well. Zander Shafley, who's one of the last two starts. He was real close, 2018, to winning at Carnusie in the Open Championship the year that Francesco Molinari ended up winning the Claire Chug. And then three guys a little bit off the board, Mark Leishman, who had one hand on the Clare Jug here in 2015, ended up Bowdoin 17, lost in a playoff in that job.

New Year's season was also in that playoff. I really will play well this week as well because he's wandered here in 2017. Sorry, sorry. I got Leishman. And what was the next one? Louis Eustason. Oh, Oosteis. Okay.

New season, one here in 2010. He was also a runner up in that playoff loss with Leishman to Zach Johnson in 2015. And then two other guys, Max Homa, who's been over here for a couple of weeks, played a lot of golf on links courses and is very comfortable over here right now, playing very good golf. And then a little bit of an outlier, the Irishman Seamus Power. Look out for Seamus Power. He was going to play well this week.

Homa's playing with Tiger and was head over heels about that prospect about playing with his idol. And by the way, Homa, for those that don't know, Max Homa is, and you've told us this before. Scott's told us this before, just one of all of your favorites on tour, right? Don't like him, love him. He is an all-time great guy. He's an amazing talent. He totally gets it, Kevin. You talk about the free.

You know, we always joke, me, you and all of our boys, you know, one of us, you know, that phrase, one of us. He is one of us, man. He's great. He's great to do it. Thank you for doing this. I know you're busy as hell. Have a great weekend. Steve will be a part of the broadcast on the Golf Channel on NBC Sports all weekend long.

The home of the 150th Open Championship, known to many here in the States, is the British Open. But you can't say that over there, from what I heard. have heard before, but I love this event. I love getting up early and watching. I'm up early anyway, and now I can get up tomorrow morning and turn on the golf and that'll be fun to watch. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend and a great call. The thought of us being on TV while you're sitting there with a cup of coffee and boxers and a t-shirt, we'll get us through the weekend. Well, there won't be a boxers and t-shirt tomorrow morning and Friday morning. It'll be right here in my studio.

as I arrive. You'll be on the air as I'm getting ready to leave, but I will be in here getting ready for my radio show watching it and I'll have it on the entire time. But Saturday and Sunday morning, yeah, if I have that much on, that'll be a win for you. Thanks. I'll talk to you soon. Have a great weekend. Bye. That's a lovely swing spot. Take care, Doug. All right. That's it for the show today. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Thank you.