The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terry Speaks: "Frustrated" & "Disappointed"

Episode Date: July 15, 2025

Kevin and Thom today with reaction to Terry McLaurin's 30+ minute press conference where he expressed frustration, disappointment, confusion, and overall, isn't very happy right now about contract negotiations. The guys talked Art Monk being the next Skins' great to have his jersey (#81) retired. Thom weighed in on Jayden Daniels being ranked #5 on the "Top 10 List of QBs" per ESPN's league survey. Kevin had thoughts on Frankie Luvu making the "Off-Ball Linebackers" Top 10. Thom doesn't think Mike Rizzo would've drafted Eli Willits and Kevin convinced Thom to watch "My Mom Jayne", a documentary about Jayne Mansfield directed and produced by her daughter, Mariska Hargitay. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. Yeah, I've been pretty frustrated. I'm not going to lie. You know, everything that has transpired up to this point has been disappointing and frustrating. You know, I've wanted to continue my career here.

I've created my life here. You know, my wife and I have bought our first home here. So this has been somewhere where I've always wanted to be. and, you know, just to see how things have played out is been disappointed. Obviously, I understand everything's a business, but at the same time, like, you know, I want to put myself in a position where, you know, I'm valued and, you know, I feel appreciated and things like that. And, you know, unfortunately, that hasn't transpired the way I wanted to.

So, you know, I'm just trying to take things day by day. And at the beginning of this process, I honestly just wanted to, you know, for things to work out. and I thought things were going to kind of be more progressive than they have, you know. So at this point, it's kind of just up in there. That was Terry McLaren earlier today holding a press conference after, I think, a commercial shoot with Eastern Motors, I believe. Biggest takeaway and an obvious one,

he's not very happy with the team right now. And worse than that, he appears to have lost some trust in the front-off. as well. Tommy's here. I'm here. The show's presenting sponsor is Window Nation. Tommy, before we get to our thoughts on Terry's 30-plus-minute press conference, do you have HBO? Because you're always complaining when I bring up a show or a documentary about what you don't have. Do you have HBO? I have HBO, which they call Max now, I think. Okay. Yes. My mom, Jane. Are you familiar with the documentary My Mom, Jane?

It just came out about three weeks ago. I've heard some rumblings about it. What have you heard? Well, it's a documentary about Jane Mansfield. That's right. And Mariska Hardigay, who was a goddess on the law and order special victim unit, and that's her mom, Jane Mansfield. That's right.

You know, we had a conversation, I don't know, a few years ago, where I realized that you have some expertise in, well, you've got expertise in many areas, but you have some expertise in pinup girls from like the 1940s, 50s, and into the 60s. Remember we had that conversation, and you were ripping off names and I was looking them up on Wikipedia

and on Google to see what they looked like. But I remember we talked about Jane Mansfield because one thing stuck from that conversation about Jane Mansfield. You told me, I'm pretty sure it was you, or maybe I looked it up and told you when we were having the conversation, that she was killed in a car accident

when she was very young. and in fact what I remember specifically about that conversation not to get graphic is that she was actually decapitated in that car accident. Do you remember that part of the discussion? Yes, I remember that, and that's always been the story. She's buried right near the Pocono. She's buried in Penn Argyle, Pennsylvania. Well, she's from Pennsylvania. Right.

Well, she's buried in Pen Argyll, which is just like three. three or four miles from East Trousper. You are going to love this. And I'm going to tell you why. First of all, Mariska Hargadei, or Harge, however you pronounce her name, I've never watched Law and Order. I know who she is because, you know, if I flipped on Law and Order and I saw her and I've seen her for years, I know she's been on that show, I think, for 25 years now. And I knew she was the daughter of Jane Mansfield because you told me that in the conversation that we had about

pin up girls from the 40s, 50s and 60s a few years back. But it's her documentary. She directed it. She produced it. And it's a story about her and her mother, Jane Mansfield, but it's so much more. There is a riveting twist to this documentary that I never saw. coming that I have a feeling you may know about, although it's never been confirmed until this documentary. I don't want to blow it for everybody, but let's just say that she was three years old

and in the car when Jane Mansfield was killed in the car accident. She and her two brothers were in the back seat and they survived. Did you know that? I didn't know that. She was three old, not only that, she slid under the passenger seat. She was concussed. They didn't rescue her in the original rescue. And her brother, who was eight at the time, in an ambulance said, where's my sister? And they went back and found her in the car under the passenger seat. She never, she doesn't remember anything about her mother. She was actually, she lived much of her life very embarrassed about her mother's career and about her mother's voice. She had an affect with her voice where she really played up the dumb blonde stereotype.

When in fact she was very smart. She spoke five languages, played violin and piano. And there was a story I think written in the New York Times at one point, the smartest dumb blonde in Hollywood, Jane Mansfield. But anyway, she after her mother's death lived with her two brothers with her father, a guy by the name of... Who was a weight lifter. Mr. Universe.

He was Mr. Universe in like 1962 or whatever. And he was from Hungary, and he was an incredibly loving father, caring father, and they essentially grew up with him. She has a half-sister from Jane Mansfield's first marriage to Mr. Mansfield, Paul Mansfield. And then Jane Mansfield ended up marrying multiple times. She has another half-brother from two more husbands later, both of whom were abusive. But Mickey Hargade was the father for Mariska and her two brothers. but without getting into the detail,

you guys have to watch it. There is a bit of a twist in terms of who her father is, who her biological father is. And I'll just leave it at that. Are you familiar with that part of the story? Not really. Okay.

No, I'm not. You got me very intrigued. Oh, yeah. My mom, Jane, it's on HBO, you know, it's on HBO Max, and it's, I don't know, it's an hour and a half, I'm going to guess, somewhere around there. I thought it was really, really good. And really interesting. Now, I'll just tell you real quickly, the subjects themselves, Mariska's great, she's got one of her brothers is super shy. Her, and you know what, I can't even get into it because then I'll be giving part of it away.

Let me just say she's got a lot of siblings. And it's worth watching. I think you'll really like it. I hope you do. If you end up watching it, you know, watch it soon because we've got a lot of days coming off and we'll probably forget to come back to it. Okay. All right.

I'll watch it. Okay. I will. All right. Terry McCorn. So that was one of the first quotes of the day. I'm going to read a bunch of the other quotes right. now just to get through them quickly and sort of pick out the important ones.

He said about, you know, the state of negotiations. He said, I'm trying to take things day by day. I thought things would be more progressive than they have. And I know those discussions were there at the beginning, but since OTAs, we haven't had any discussions. At this point, it's up in the air. There has to be some active discussions. We haven't talked in a month and it's becoming crunch time. You want to be in a position to be in the building towards be in position, excuse me, to be building towards what we did last year on the field. So this is definitely disappointing. I don't know what happens next. He said, and there's no doubt, like he took some shots at the organization. He's frustrated, he's hurt. He's a lot of things

right now. He said, quote, if they don't feel I'm part of their future, that's fine. Just tell me that. I'm an adult and I can handle hard truths, closed quote. He said, I do want to play here and continue to be a part of what's being built, but you also want to feel valued by ownership. I think there's a disconnect between the value I bring to the table and how it applies to the market. What else? I want to work things out, but at the end of the day, it takes two to tango. Yeah, that's the gist of it. There were other, you know, he was asked specifically about if there's a point of no return,

and he said, I'm not sure, but it's not great right now. He said, my value is so much more than a dollar amount. he said, I'm confused. You know, shoot it to me straight. Yeah, there was a lot of repetition, but a lot of questions that sort of dictated repetition. But I'll let you go first. I don't know if you listened to it.

I actually had to run it on my radio show at the very end. And, you know, we were told that he might speak at 1 o'clock. He ended up starting at about 1248 or something. and he was still going when we jumped off the air at about 115 to go to the next show. But what did you think based on what you've either heard or read? Well, first of all, and I don't want to derail this, but this is still part of the discussion.

I pretty much knew yesterday that he was going to talk today, right? I guess. I didn't know that until I got into work this morning, and my producer said, hey, we... Pretty much people knew. that he was, yesterday he was going to talk. Do you think the announcement about Art Monk's retiring of the number was a coincidence or was timed for this?

Ooh, I didn't even think about that. I honestly didn't even think about that. I don't think it's a coincidence. I'm not condemning them. You know, if they knew there was a broadside coming and they also knew that they had this announcement is that they were going to make at some point. This would seem like a good time to announce it.

Well, we're going to get to the Monk thing. I hope that they didn't choose Monk now because of Terry's press conference that was scheduled today. Because I'll just tell you right now, and we're going to come back to this in either the next segment or the last segment. I think Riggins should have been the next Jersey retired. I'm thrilled for Art, and of course, his jersey deserves to be retired. but I think they got the order wrong here.

But anyway, continue. Okay, but anyway, even if they had announced Wiggins, it would have been to maybe deflect some attention to what was coming on. But again, I don't think they knew or expected how blunt Terry McLaurin was going to be. I don't think any of us did with his comments. I think what he's trying to do is look, the universe right now with this team

revolves around the stadium. It's stadium, stadium, stadium. I think he's trying to create a sense of urgency for his own little issue. And I think he's sense that there has been no sense of urgency.

You talk to fans, say, you know, he'll still sign. You know, I mean, fans, he'll feel, he's going to wind up. playing here. That's all I see on social media. You know, don't worry. It'll get done. You know? I mean, I think his

agent probably knows that that's what's out there. I think Terry, in turn, then, probably knows that's out there. And I think he's trying to create a sense of urgency about his situation. And I think

he succeeded in doing that. I think there's a lot of people who were willing to say, oh, he's It's going to get done. He'll be here. Second week of training camp, he'll be here. Are a little bit more worried now about this and thinking more about it now than they did before. Okay.

Anything else? Well, what? The merits of the contract, I think they should pay him. Okay. Well, I mean... I think they should pay him. He's essentially... I mean, they don't...

You know, it doesn't... Actually, it doesn't matter how good you think he is. I mean, it does matter, but what also comes into play is what else do the commanders have at this late date? Or are they going to waste a second year? Tommy, he's under contract. James Daniel's second year. He's under contract.

He's going to play for this team this year unless they trade him. Right. He could force a trade. It's done. It's done all the time. He could. He could. Yeah.

Number one, to your point, it was very blunt. He's not happy. He isn't happy, number two, because he's hurt. You can tell he's hurt by this right now. You know, it's business, but he's taking it personally. He does not think the team sees it the right way, the way he does. He doesn't think age should matter. He talked about that because he didn't play it, you know, as much.

much in college at Ohio State as other players played in college. You know, he's never been hurt in the NFL. He thinks his best days are ahead of him. And he sees himself as not just a number one wide receiver. But, you know, and he didn't say this specifically, but I'll say what I think he believes. He's one of the very best number one wide receivers in the game. And he deserves to be treated that way.

I do believe him when he says he wants to be here. He emphasized that a few times. He should want to be here. Playing in this offense with this quarterback is really good for him, very good for him. So I was surprised, you know, in the same way you were that, and I bet the team was to a certain degree at how public he made this today and how your words a good one, because he was very blunt. He was very direct into the point. Now, let me get to another reaction I had, listening to this live. And this is probably going to piss some of you off, but I don't really care.

Yes, he was blunt, he was direct. He was, you know, very informative with the exception, of course, of understanding what he's asking for and what the team's offering. We still don't know that. But I'll tell you what, I sat there and I'm like, you're going on way too long here. Your answers are way too long. Again, some of the questions dictated similar answers, but he just kept selling. You know, sometimes when you are selling and selling, it's because you're trying to convince yourself, too.

And I thought, you know, he sold himself so much during this. You know, his age, his ability, what he brings to the locker room. what he is in the community, what he is, you know, how his importance. Like, I think he understands what everybody feels and knows about him, and that is he's the anti-diva. He's a really unique, great wide receiver. You know, and I just use the word great. I don't always use the word great with Terry because I think he's very good.

He's not elite. He just isn't. There are many receivers I would take in front of him, but he is a great receiver. He is. He does, you know, he's talking about his, you know, contested catch rates. You know, he was really specific in selling himself, making a case for himself, which, by the way, he doesn't really need to do with the fan base.

But he did it anyway, you know, what he's asking for and what he's being offered, we don't know, you know, we don't have a clue, really. But that press conference should have been 10 minutes, 15 minutes tops. And I think he could have come off much better. And, you know, I don't know what the reaction was really because I haven't been paying attention to it post radio show. I'm just sharing with you what I thought afterwards. I think the message should have been, I'm frustrated, I'm disappointed, I'm confused with the team. And he did say that. He did. I'm a true number one wide receiver who's coming off the

best season of my career and the best is yet to come. I'm healthy. I've always been healthy. I'm very good on the field and I am even better off of it. I'm not sure why more progress hasn't been made yet. I actually think it should have been more of a statement and then he gets up and walks away. I don't have a problem with him talking. In fact, no issue with him talking. A 35-minute press conference where he, I'm wondering why he,

maybe it's just him and his personality. Look, if you go back and you've been there with Terry and I've played, you know, I've had Terry on the show. His answers are very long in general. He's very thoughtful. He's smart. He wants to really help

reporters out. He's thoughtful when it comes to that. I think today should have been much shorter and I think it would have come off as much more effective and sweeter. This is my opinion. It may not be the opinion of all of you. Now, I think this begs some interesting questions. Why is the team doing this? Because he claims they're doing something to him. He claims they're not, you know, they're not viewing him appropriately. And he's hurt by that. Now, I've suggested here recently, this could be more style over anything else. This is the way the 49ers did it.

You know, you had Brandon Ayyuk going public multiple times last summer during his contract negotiation extension, Bosa, Kittle. These deals, the last three big extensions were done at the end of August and early September with Bosa, Kittal, and Iyuk. and maybe Adam Peters is just bringing that style of waiting it out to Washington and that, you know, it's nothing personal. We're going to get it done. We're going to get there.

But maybe it's something strategic. And it's the way they're going to do things around here because this is the first one for us with this new group. Or is it not style? And is there some skepticism on the part of the team? Because this deal shouldn't be that hard to figure out, Tommy. Yes, there's some trickiness to it because of his age, and there would be some trickiness to it if he's asking for Jefferson or Chase money,

because he's not in that category of wide receiver. There are at least three or four or five guys, and then there's a group of eight, nine, ten that you could mix and match any way you want. He's in that group. He's also older, and nobody other than... to re-kill recently, you know, has been, you know, extended at his age. So there was a bit of trickiness to it. But ultimately, you know, I've said this.

It's like 30 and 65 or 70, 30 a year, 60 to 70 guaranteed. If he's asking for 35 to 40, he's way off. He's just not that player. And then the age on top of it. If they're offering 27, 28, T. Higgins money, they're off. This is 30 to 32 a year. It's 60 to 70 guaranteed. Call it a day.

So why isn't it getting done? If it's not style and it's team skepticism, what are they skeptical about? Well, you know what? They can't afford to be skeptical because they knew this was coming. If they were this skeptical about their number one received, they should have drafted one in the draft. Well, they picked one in the fourth round, yes, but they didn't pick one out. No, no, it's not, if they had these doubts about Terry McLaren, they knew all this was coming. I don't think they thought Terry McClure was going to roll over because he held out his last contract, you know, before these guys even got here.

So, you know, if they're skepticism about paying him that kind of money, they should have been better prepared. They should have had a plan B because right now. Well, they did sign Debo Samuel. Oh, come on. What do you mean? Come on. I mean, he'll be a valuable contributor. But, uh...

Well, he's, let's be clear about Debo Samuel. First of all, you know, he's more than just a receiver. He's like a weapon because they'll line him up and they'll run him, et cetera. But in the wide receiver conversation, Debo Samuel, you know, has been right there, if not higher ranked than Terry in a lot of the, you know, rankings of receivers. And if he's not higher, he's barely below. Look, he's coming off.

I can't stay healthy. You're right. I'm not saying you said they should have been more prepared. I think adding Debo Samuel, I think he's going to be really good for this team. And I think he could be as much of a contributor as Terry. Yeah. That just keeps them from treading water from last year. I mean, Tebow Samuel was a step forward, you know?

Well, offensively, it's hard to take too many steps forward. They were one of the top five offenses in the league last year. I know that, but that was because of you know who. Yeah, and he's still here. I know it, but you want to give him better weapons. Or are we not debating that anymore? No, I definitely wanted at least one more weapon. And they added Debo, which I don't want to subtract Terry.

I'm not saying that I want to subtract Terry. I'm just... My point is, if that was in the equation, they should have had a plan B for that. Yeah. Well, the plan B... If they're skepticism about their ability to sign Terry McLaurin, they should have been better prepared for it. But see, the plan B is if we don't come to an agreement that we think is right for the team, because that's where their priorities lie.

And by the way, there's a whole other kind of, you know, intangible part of this negotiation, which is it's their first big one. They've built up a lot of equity. And I think fans would be against them and will take Terry's side more likely than not if it doesn't get done. But plan B is, well, you'll play this year. for us and then we'll address this next year in the form of a franchise tag or a contract

extension then. He's under contract. They don't. I know that. They don't, he's, he can't hold out the entire year. He's not going to take his age 30 season and sit. So, I mean, plan C might be if he really gets disgruntled, which isn't like him. And maybe we saw part of what we didn't think we'd see today.

we'll trade them, but we'll have to get a receiver back somehow. And that's impossible to do right now. That's not going to happen. So plan B is you're going to play on your last year of the deal and we'll address it next off season. What do you mean it's not a real plan? A lot of players end up not working out. You're going to play. You're going to play and you're going to like it.

No. A lot of players don't work out deals with a year left. on their contract with teams. And then they, you know, it's like, you know, a lot of players end up choosing to, you know, roll the dice and say, yeah, I'm going to hit free agency and hit the mother load after the year I'm going to have. I'm not suggesting that that's the situation here. But from the team standpoint, Terry is one of the things probably working against him to a

certain degree is they know what a pro he is. and they know they'll get his absolute best, even if he's pissed off at them with the way they handle contract negotiations if they don't get to a deal. Sends a bad signal to the rest of the team, too. How bad? Bad signal.

How bad? What to be how bad? He's one of the leaders of a team. If they're not going to pay Terry McLaurin, then nobody counts on that team except the quarterback. I think that, They've done a whole hell of a lot here already. And I can't imagine, like, players saying,

yeah, I don't want to play for Washington because of the way they handled the Terry McLaren deal. I just can't. I mean, in their locker room now, I think it brings down the enthusiasm. I think it brings down the expectations. I think it brings down, I think it's a damage to the.

culture. Maybe I don't. I'm not saying that it's not impossible that there would be some, you know, a negative reaction that they'd have to deal with. But, you know, maybe we're assuming about Terry too much. And I'm not talking about on the field. I'm talking about, you know, off it. I'm not suggesting anything other than he's a real leader, but I, I, I think that there are several leaders that have emerged on this team with some of the people they brought in last year.

Look, I think there's an equal chance that it's style versus skepticism. But I think skepticism is in play here. And I think the team is going to have to take into consideration what you've just discussed and what we've just talked about together. And that is, you know, they don't want the momentum that they've, built to sort of halt even for a moment or a couple of weeks. I do think, by the way, netting it out, what comes next is a deal. I do think there will be a deal.

And I think he'll be on a long-term contract extension by either this time next week or a week away from veterans reporting in camp beginning or very early in camp. I think that'll happen. I think that will happen too, but the only reason I think that is because I think the team will have to relent. Okay. The Garrett Wilson deal, by the way, I talked about this on radio, $32.5 million, $90 million guaranteed, fourth largest guaranteed dollar amount in a wide receiver contract in NFL history. I'd said this morning, and I'll say it right now, I just don't think the two situations are comparable at all. I don't think that the team lost any leverage.

I don't think Terry, you know, lost any either. He's 24 years old. And if you've watched him play, you realize he actually has like true elite level talent. Yes. And that's not Terry. Sorry, it isn't. He's great. He's not, you know, the kind of, I actually think in some ways Garrett Wilson signed too early.

But 90 million guaranteed, it's tough to turn down, especially when injury is always a possibility. One last thing on this, because I have suggested this previously. 6 billion plus for the team less than two years ago. A hundred million or something approaching it into the current stadium. I understand there are many ways to raise the 2.7 billion that they'll have, that they'll need to have for. the stadium at RFK. But I have thought about, and I have suggested, this being the first big contract that they've done, all of the other deals have been super short-term deals that have essentially been

primarily base salary with not a lot of guaranteed money, no money into escrow, no big, massive commitments. They extended Cosme last year. They paid Kinlaw, you know, 30 million guaranteed, but they haven't paid anybody 60 to 70 million or higher guaranteed. I know what these men are worth personally, but, you know, they're not writing checks out of their own, you know, Merrill Lynch or J.P. Morgan or Goldman Sachs accounts to fund Terry's contract. That comes out of the operating budget of the team. I wonder if it's just a big number for them right now. Look, that's possible.

I don't think it's likely. I don't think it's likely. But I have wondered, and I think I said to you a few weeks ago, I'm going to call around. And I did, and I got crickets. I had the guy from Ozanian from CNBC on last week talking about the sports empires he wrote about, and I asked him about it. He said, I don't think so. He said, you know, with the stadium in particular, there will be a lot of ways to sort of fund that. It's not like they got to, you know, get their limited partners to come up with $2.7 billion. There's a lot that's interesting about this right now. And he made it more interesting today, but he did come short. He stopped short of requesting a trade or even,

suggesting that if things don't progress, that, you know, he'd like to be moved. And I don't think that's for him to say anyway. I think that's for the agent to sort of put out there. But I don't know. What else on this? Well, one thing, and this is just me because I'm a kind of a screwed up individual when it comes to stuff like this. but you know for me everything is about the stadium right now

I mean he he like basically threw a rock in the lake to try to get attention and start some waves but if I was advising Terry I would have told to hold his press conference on the steps in a Wilson building I disagree with you though I think in my world right now this is much more of a conversation than the stadium. Well, we'll see. I don't know.

I tell you what, in the commander's universe, there should be one giant planet right now, and that's the stadium. Well, the sun that that planet is rotating or revolutioning around is Jaden Daniels. And no matter what happens in this wide receiver conversation, We still got number five. Yes, look, but I mean, I would have held that press conference on the steps of the Wilson building. How funny would that have been funny. That would have been pretty good.

You know, he said something. That would have pissed off the odor. Yeah. I don't think anything that he said today is going to impact anything the city council is doing. You don't, do you? No, no, not at all. Okay, okay. But you use that.

Yeah. You use that. Look, they won't even pay. man, they're going to come up with new money for a stadium? What are you kidding? Right. At one point, and I forgot this quote, he said, it's a little bit disrespectful to me the time that I put in here. I thought it would have been honored and respected. I mean, that's really a shot, but it sort of dovetails into this last thing that I actually want to say. I forgot to say this. I've talked a lot about this when it comes to contracts. You don't go in and tell your employer to pay you more

for what you've done. You go in and you tell your employer to pay you more for what you're going to do. And Terry actually early on in the press conference said that, you know, it's not about what I've done to this point. It's about what you can continue to do. That's really smart. But then, you know, he went back a couple of times and really sold what he's meant to the organization. I'm going to tell you. you in 99 out of a hundred of these, and I've had some experience with these in my life, all due respect to Terry, that stuff for Adam Peters and Lance Newmark and, you know, Brandon Soshena and anybody else that's involved in negotiating this contract, that's nice, and that's why we like you. But that's not necessarily why we're going to pay you this amount. We're going to pay you this amount, or this is what we want to pay you,

because of what we think you're going to do not only on the field but off it as well, but it's about what you're going to bring to us. We've already paid you for what you've done. That's just, you know, that's just life in 99 out of 100 cases. And the one out of 100, it's usually because it's nepotism somewhere involved in there. But anyway,

you know, I wish I didn't realize that before I negotiated this deal with you. Yes, you never did. Right. Well, you know, our next conversations is coming up in the year 2028. So you've got plenty of time to prepare for it. You know what? I sat there and I'm like, God, I wish you would end this. I wish you would end this.

But I was also thinking he's really hurt. hurt. You know, he's hurt right now. He's, he's pissed, he's angry, he's confused, he's frustrated, but he's also hurt. You could feel that from him today. You know, there was some sensitivity there that he feels like he's risen to a level in this organization where he should have been treated incredibly well and quickly so that it didn't turn in. to what it's turning into right now. By the way, everybody will love each other

once the deal is signed. Yes, yes, it will. Yes, it will. It'll just be a newspaper clipping among the other newspaper clipping once it's done. Exit question. Did his press conference today

increase the possibility in your mind and by how much if it did the possibility they don't get a deal and he asks for a trade? I think it increased the likelihood that they get a deal, and I think it did so by 15%. Oh, it increased the possibility that they get a deal done by 15%.

Well, where were you before? I was at 95%. The 90% they would get a deal done, 10% he'd play on the final year of his deal. Well, let me think now, 90, if I'm at 92 and 15%, that puts me at 105%. That's certainty. That's certainty that they're going to get a deal done. So you don't, yeah. So that was, you didn't answer the question.

The question would have been it didn't increase the possibility at all. He's going to get a deal done. For me, I think I'm still at 90%. I'm at 80. I'm dropping it to 85% that they get a deal done. 12% that he plays on the final year of his deal. I'm at 97 and 3% that he tries to force a trade. I guess the forcing a trade could still happen and the other two could happen.

But whatever, we're not going to figure out the math of all of it now. He's not happy. That's for sure. All right. Let's get to the team's decision to retire James Arthur Monks number 81 next year. We'll do that and a lot more after these words from a few of our sponsors. It can be hard for men to deal with hair loss, even though it's common. Luckily, I'm here to provide you with a solution so you don't even have to talk about it.

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windownation.com. Mention my name, I promise you, they'll take really good care of you. All right. Today, Tommy, the team announced, and, you know, right before Terry's press conference, as you pointed out, that the retired jersey in this upcoming season will be Art Monks, number 81. They'll retire that jersey on November 2nd. That is the night that they debut, their alt uniforms, the throwback uniforms, the Super Bowl uniforms, Sunday night football against the Seahawks at home, and Art Monk's jersey will be retired. Art Monk, the all-time leading pass catcher in terms of receptions and yardage in franchise history. He is second in pass receiving touchdowns in franchise history to Charlie Taylor. Taylor had 79 touchdown catches. Art Monk had 65.

Art and Charlie are easily one, two, in whatever order you'd like to put him in, in terms of the greatest receivers in franchise history. Art Monk, a three-time pro bowler, a three-time pro bowl, player, a one-time all-pro player who it took 13 years for him to get into the Hall of Fame. And we all had a major problem with that. The Peter Kings of the world referred to him as a possession receiver that Gary Clark was the true threat. He is where he belongs, which is in the Hall of Fame. And he deserves to get his jersey retired.

Tommy, I put this list together, you know, when the Dwayne Haskins, Joe Thysman, number seven thing, went on back in 2019. When Dan, you know, basically, you know, hung Joe out to dry and said it's Joe's call, which was just pitiful, despicable by the owner, he should have said, sorry, that's a protected jersey. You're going to have to pick one that's available. He put Joe on the spot. Haskins ended up wearing number seven. And we, you know, talked about in that moment, it's time for the team to retire jerseys because Sammy Boz was the only one retired at that point. So they decided to start retiring jerseys. And I came up with a list. I came up with the no debate list, the debatable list, and the barely missed the debatable conversation list. The no

debate list of jerseys in this franchise's history that deserve to be retired are number nine, Sonny Jurgensen, number 28, Daryl Green, 33 Sammy Baugh, 42 Charlie Taylor, 44 John Riggins, 49 Bobby Mitchell, 81 Art Monk. I listed those in numerical order. We now have, in addition to Sammy Baugh, Bobby Mitchell's was the next when they decided to start retiring jerseys. I thought that that was completely the right thing to do, given the significance of Bobby Mitchell's. Mitchell to this franchise. Then after that, they retired Sean Taylor's jersey. That was a bad decision in terms of the order in which Jersey should have been retired. He's on the debatable list for me, along with Joe Thaisman's seven, Ken Houston's 27, Larry Brown's 43, Chris Hamburger's

55, Joe Jacoby's 66, Russ Grimm's 68, and Sam Huff's 70. I didn't have a problem with them retiring Sean Taylor's jersey, but he should have never had his jersey retired before Sunnies, before Daryl's, before Charlie Taylor's, before Rigo's, before Art Monks. But they did it anyway. And by the way, a lot of former players were not happy with that at all. So since Bobby Mitchell and Sean Taylor, Sunny's jersey was retired and Daryl Green's jersey was retired, leaving for me, no debates, Taylor, Rigo, and Art Monk's jerseys to be retired. I've said this previously that I think the order should, after Daryl Green, should have been Charlie Taylor or Rigo, and then the other one who doesn't go before the other, and then Art Munk.

It should have been that order. I don't want to take away from this because Art obviously deserves it, and I'm thrilled for him, and I'll be thrilled for him on November 2nd. I'm just telling you what my initial reaction to this was. And that is, of course, he is on the no debate list and his jersey deserves to be retired. But I think Rigo's should have been next. And if it were Charlie Taylor's that was the next one,

I wouldn't have had a problem with that. But I think Rigo goes before both of them personally. Maybe order's not important to them. Maybe there are other things involved. and I'm not privy to the decision making. But if I had been a part of the committee to determine this, I would have said Rigo's next. Rigo is, you can easily argue,

the all-time player, icon, and most beloved player in franchise history. Beyond that, he's the most clutch player in franchise history. He still holds the record for the most yardage rushing in a postseason. ever. And honestly, I think Rigo during his time was a better player at his position, not by a lot, but by a little than Art was at his. Both greats, both Hall of Famers took Rigo, I think, two extra years after eligibility or maybe one extra year after eligibility to get in,

because there was recognition that he was a surefire, no doubt, Hall of Famer. Art was debated for 13 years before he got in. I think unjustifiably so, but I'm just pointing it out. Other than that, I'm thrilled, but I think Rigo should have been next. Your take? I agree with Rigo. I think he should have been next.

I think he is the most beloved, most impactful, well, one of the most impactful players that we've seen on this franchise. and his postseason run, you know, leading up to the, you know, the 82 season is just, it's probably the greatest four weeks in the history of Washington sports, you know. And considering all three of those playoffs games, right, there were three playoff victories, right? And then the Super Bowl, four total, yeah. Right. And they all happened at home for people to witness in person,

made it extra special. You know, so I would have put, but Art Monk is certainly deserving. I'm happy for him. I'll be curious how he handles it because he does not like to speak publicly. He's very, very shy and very reserved. Even among his teammates, he was like that.

So I'll be curious how this plays out. but, you know, I'm happy for him. And I hope, you know, I think they'll get to the next two names in the next two years. Yeah, I do too, no doubt. And by the way, I'm glad that, because, you know, after Sonny and Darrell, I think the next, you know, a few, and Rigo would have been the next was obvious. but I'm glad that, you know, somebody that shouldn't be ahead of art went ahead of, you know, I'm glad that, because we're learning more and more.

These guys really have finally some true institutional historical knowledge of the franchise. And I think we're learning that. I mean, this is a small gripe. It's just the thing that I was expecting Rigo or Charlie Taylor to be next. I just was. I mean, John Wiggins, in 1982 people, he averaged 152 and a half yards per playoff game. He rushed for 610 yards still in NFL record in the postseason. He had the most memorable, most iconic play in franchise history and game in franchise history,

winning the Super Bowl MVP rushing for 166 yards in Super Bowl 17 with the fourth and one. touchdown run for the lead. He was so... He was so clutch. He was so big time when it mattered the most. And it wasn't just 82. It wasn't just 82.

Yeah. I know. I know it wasn't just 82, but he did it during the time of his life, which would be Terry McLaren's time coming up. Yeah, true.

He had a full career, with the Jets already. Yeah, I know. Before he came to Washington. You know, in 79, when he really, with Jack Pardee, Alan really played him as a blocking fullback. And Pardee and Joe Walton in particular, who was the offensive coordinator, you know, Benny Malone was part of the backfield as well, but Rigo was the guy.

And Rigo, you know, he had 1153 yards, but against the Cowboys in the season finale to go to the playoffs and one of the greatest regular season games ever played in a game that I've referred to is probably the most painful loss for any skins team, the 35 to 34 season ending loss in 79. 22 carries, 151 yards in the game, two touchdowns, average seven yards per carry, and his 66-yard touchdown run in the fourth quarter gave them what should have been an insurmountable lead of 13 points. If you ever want to see what Rigo's best was, Rigo at six, two and a half and two 35 was a sprinter at that size.

He outran the entire Dallas secondary to the end zone on that touchdown. You know, the thing, and I talked about this, you know, not that this maybe was even in their thinking. Who knows? Maybe they just thought it was the right year, the right time for Art, and next year is going to be a better year for Rigo. I don't know what went into the thinking. You know, Rigo was only a pro bowler one time, amazingly, and only a one time all pro.

And that was the year he set the NFL record for rushing touchdowns in 83 with 24. Now, Art Munk was only a pro bowler three times and an all pro twice during his very long career. But there's a bit of a difference. this was the era of the running backs. You know, this was the era of unbelievable backs like Walter Payton and Dickerson and Marcus Allen and Tony Dorset, Earl Campbell, and Billy Sims.

And Rigo was just always kind of a fullback and didn't get as many opportunities until Gibbs came around, you know, party a little bit more, but then Gibbs really strapped the team to his back in 82. a Riggle was capable of so much more during his career than what he produced, even with the Jets, although you'll admit, right? You know, and I'm looking this up, he got more carries as a running back with the Jets than he ever did than he did with the skins until Pardee showed up.

Here's the jet, no, there were 14 games and then all of a sudden there were 16 games starting in 78, so that makes a difference, clearly. But in his last year in New York, he had 238 carries for 1,000 5 yards and 8 touchdowns. A thousand yards was a big deal back then, people. 14 games. Then we had this odd era of like six months of free agency, and he signs a deal and he comes to Washington. And he's really a legitimate fullback.

And he ends up with 76 fewer carries in the same number of games. with George Allen. I mean, Alan just did not. He was a blocking back for Mike Thomas, who had been, I mean, he carried it a lot. I'm not saying that he didn't carry it a lot. But in 1976, I'm going to look it up right now.

Mike Thomas, 254 rushes for 11001 yards, Rigo 162 carries for 572 yards. He was not the main guy. So there were years where he wasn't the main guy, which is, you know, probably takes away from his career totals. But when Rigo retired, he was a legend, a legend. Not just in Washington, people around the league recognized him as one of the greats. And by the way, Art Munk retired as the all-time pass reception leader. So he's got that, too.

There is a YouTube video of an interview with Howie Long. And I think somebody asked him who was the heart. his back you ever had to tackle. He said John Riggins. He said John Riggins was a load to hit and then to bring down. And Howie Long was a tough guy, a Hall-famed defensive tackle. And he also talked about Riggins' speed, you know? I think he still holds the record for the fastest hundred-yard dash in Kansas high school history. He held it for years. You know, Rigo, you know, we're lucky enough to get to work with him for many years. And he used to have this expression.

Like, the guys that really impressed him were guys with what he called horsepower. And he considered himself a player who had horsepower. You know, I mean, Rigo, it's 6 to 230, 235 and could still outrun you. He was a sprinter. It was amazing. And there were a few guys. I remember, yeah, he's that. And Bo Jackson was that.

Adrian Peterson was that. Devin Hester, I remember he went off one day on Devin Hester, and he just said, Devin Hester is a returner. He's got horsepower because Hester really was special, you know, during that stretch where he was the most dominant returner in the game. But that's what Rigo had. Art on the other side was just flat out one of the most efficient players in NFL history. I always felt like his breakaway capability, his speed, his deep threat was underdiscust by a lot of the guys that kept him out of the Hall of Fame.

Art was a deep threat. He absolutely was, but they didn't need him to do that a lot. And remember, some of those years, it was more of a run-first, ball control, burn the clock, you know, and Art was the go-to on third and five, on third and six. But if Thaisman needed to throw it deep, he could throw it deep to 81. Yes, he could. All right. So I've gotten that out of my system, and it's not that big of a deal because I'm so happy

because Art Monk was one of my favorite players. It'll be a great day at the stadium when they do it. Yes, it will. November 2nd, Sunday night football at home. in great-looking uniforms against the Seattle Seahawks. All right, let's take a break. I want you to weigh in on the quarterback list that was on ESPN yesterday, and the off-ball linebacker list came out today,

and surprise, a Washington linebacker is in the top five. We'll get to that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey, guys, we've reached that point on the sports calendar, where it is all about baseball. Basketball's in the rearview mirror. Football is still a few weeks away in terms of preseason games. So let's focus on baseball. Step up to the plate with prize picks and add your favorite baseball players to your lineup,

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Prize picks, run your game. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley's. I was at Shelly's backroom yesterday evening at 1331 F-Street Northwest in the district. I stopped in after I had taken care of some other business and had a smoke and had a nice drink of Sierra Nevada and something to eat off the menu, a burger and some fries, some of the great burgers they have there. And it struck me when I was there because I was sitting at the bar.

Sometimes I sit at one of the many, like, nice, big soft chairs that they have there. They got those big soft chairs. Yeah. They're comfortable. You could sleep in those chairs. Yes, you could. And sometimes I'll sit at a table, maybe with, somebody there who's a friend.

I usually run into a lot of people, but I sat at the bar yesterday. And, you know, it was fairly busy. But it may be realized the level, the quality of service that you get at show. I mean, I never, I never have to sit there with an empty glass, you know, and wait for somebody to pour me a beer. I mean, they just pay it, you know, if my cigar is out. or not lit right, you know, the bartender will come over to take out his or her lighter and light it for you. And this is a level of service at the table throughout the dining room.

I just want to give a shout out to the crew of workers at Shelly's back room because they do great customer service there. That's why people keep coming back. One of many reasons that people keep coming back at Shelly's, because, it's a very warm, friendly place with first-class service. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com. All right, yesterday, and I spent a bunch of time on the podcast yesterday, talking about the rankings of quarterbacks, the surveying of front office execs,

coaches, and scouts, the annual survey that Jeremy Fowler kind of conducts on behalf of the SPN.com. They do it for all these position groups. Tomorrow, by the way, is wide receivers. We didn't talk about that when we were talking about Terry. It'll be interesting to see where Terry lands on that list. If Terry's agent has any pool, he should pay somebody to make sure he's in that top 10 because last year, he wasn't in the top 10. He wasn't in the honorable mention. He was in others receiving votes, which was equivalent to like the 22nd best receiver in the league. Now, Sam Howell was throwing to him, and Eric B. Enemy was calling plays in that 20-23 season. But anyway, yesterday was quarterbacks. Today was off-ball linebackers.

And I'll just mention real quickly that Frankie Louvo was fifth on the list. I'm so happy that the rest of the league recognizes this guy's ability. I thought he was pound for pound. on the team last year, the second or third best player, after Jaden or after Jaden and Terry. Wagner, by the way, was the second player mentioned on the honorable mention list, meaning he's the 12th best. So we've got Tunsell, who was seventh on the tackle list, Louvo was fifth on the off-ball linebacker list, Wagner was honorable mentioned, but on the quarterback's list yesterday, Jaden Daniels came in at number five. Tommy, I'm sure you heard or read a lot about the conversation about this entire top 10 list, but what did you

think? What was your takeaway on this list and on Jaden in particular? Okay, well, let's concentrate on two particular quarterbacks, Jaden and Jalen, as opposed that Jalen hurts. I think that's my justice. A lot of the conversation was sent it around maybe, you know, why would Jayden Daniels be ranked so high after the Super Bowl quarterback, Jalen Hertz? Who was what, right? Ninth, I think?

Ninth, yes. Yeah. Okay. And, you know, when people would ask me this, I'd say, okay, put Jalen Hertz on the commanders and put Jayden Daniels on the Eagles. Think of

the possibility. You can't do much better than win the Super Bowl. Yeah, right. Get it. Yeah. Okay. But you can win the Super Bowl a lot more impressively. You could steamroll your way to the Super Bowl with Jayden Daniels as the quarterback in Philadelphia. I don't think Jaylen Hertz manages to drag last year's Washington commanders to a 12-win season. Okay, that's basically, to me, how you settle these arguments.

if you think somebody should be ahead of Jane Daniels, okay, switch to quarterbacks, put them in their different positions and see who would be more valuable. I think Jane Daniels is the number five quarterback in the league. I mean, once you get past the core of Josh Allen and Mahomes and Lamar Jackson, I think he's number five. I have no problem with it.

I think it's easily defensible. By the way, you know, flipping it Jaden to Philly and how much better they won the Super Bowl. But when you kind of drew that picture of Jalen Hertz in Washington last year, there's no way they win 12 games. And I like Jalen Hertz. I really do. I've been a fan for a while. But he's not Jaden. He's different.

They're different players. You know, it's interesting because yesterday I talked. a lot about Lamar Jackson on radio and I think a bit on the podcast as well. And there's a lot. The two areas of discussion more than any other about the top 10 list was Lamar Jackson being ranked four behind Burrow and even behind Josh Allen. And then Jalen Hertz at number nine. And I think there was some conversation about Jaden Daniels shouldn't be that high among NFL fans.

But not as much as you would think. You know, he's, I think he's in the right spot, and I said that yesterday. So, yeah, I do too. The Jalen Hertz thing is interesting, because I said, look, Hertz, you know, if we want to take Jalen Hertz postseason, he's higher than nine, because he plays up to the occasion. And Cody Benjamin, who writes for CBS Sports.com, did a coaching list yesterday. Quinn was 14, by the way. I had him on radio today.

And he had written about this ESPN list, CBSSports.com writing about the ESPN quarterback list. And he said, first of all, this is like a real ranking because of the people who are, you know, weighing in on this. These are coaches and, you know, this should be taken more seriously, which I agree with. And he did the work on why Lamar Jackson apparently was ranked by some of those surveyed as low as sixth. in the league. And he said, what I've said before and what many people have said before about Jaden Daniels, about Lamar Jackson. It's not Lamar Jackson's regular season. It's the fact that he's played so poorly in the playoffs. And comparatively to Joe Burrow and Josh Allen, he's played poorly. And Benjamin did the work. Josh Allen's got a 101.7 QBR and 13 playoff games,

33 touchdowns, six turnovers. Burroughs played seven playoff games. He's five and two. Allen's seven and six, by the way. 93.8 QBR, 10 total touchdowns, four turnovers. Jackson's got a three and five overall playoff record as a starter with an 84.6 QBR, 13 touchdowns, 11 turnovers. But I'm getting to Jalen Hertz. Hertz's playoff record is six and three as a starter.

He's got a 95.4 QBR and he's accounted for 20 touchdowns in just four turnovers. Jalen Hertz is just a different player when you got to win. And by the way, you could put some big regular season games on the list for him too. But yeah, I guess I didn't focus as much on Jalen Hertz at number nine, but I guess I would have had him in front of golf and in front of Herbert who's done nothing in the postseason. Yeah, I think so. I would have, too.

But not your part of Chayden. But I think I would take Herbert if I were starting a franchise and I needed the best possible quarterback for the next five years over Hertz. Hertz has a tremendous supporting cast. And by the way, he's different because he's a true dual threat quarterback. But yeah, I thought Jaden was right where he deserved to be. Yeah. You have not weighed in on the Nats selecting Eli Willits number one overall in the MLB draft the other night.

I want to hear your thoughts on that, and we will get those thoughts after these words from a few of our sponsors. rate and review the show on Apple and Spotify. If you haven't done it, it's a huge help for us following this show as well. Hit the plus button or the follow button on Apple and Spotify. That's a big help as well. All right, let's finish it up with your thoughts on the Nats selecting Eli Willits, number one overall in the draft on Sunday night. What'd you think?

Well, you know, it's interesting. Mike DeBarlow, the, interim GM basically said, what was great about this was that everybody in the room agreed that this was the guy. This was the guy they should draft. And I'm thinking to myself, not one adult stood up among the kids and said, are you guys nuts? There's a 21-year-old left-hander from LSU who we can plug into the rotation.

next season. We're about to have our six straight losing season. By the time this kid comes up, who's going to be left to watch? This was insane. Okay. Kane Anderson is ready to put in that rotation next year. Okay, a left-hander. We've got pick number three overall by Seattle.

Yes, by Seattle. okay and it's just insane to think that you could ask this fan base when you have the number one pick and an opportunity to get a pitcher who you know you know in your heart

will be able to contribute next year you pass him by for who you think is quote the best player available okay as 17 year old kid as anyone can project that far look you know the depart

line is that the nationals did this in part because, A, they really think he's good, and B, he's going to cost them less because he's not expected to be the number one pick, so his value, his slot value will be less. Now, the party line is this gets free to nationals up to use money that they might not have available for other draft picks down the line. That may be, but let's look at the learner's track record. Okay, the back of the baseball card, as Mike Rizzo would like to say. They are bottom spenders in every area of the franchise, particularly in player development and scouting. Okay, so their inclination is to cheap out on talent, acquiring talent, scouting for talent, looking for talent.

Second, in 2009, when they had to pay $7.5 million to Stephen Strasper as the number one pick in the draft in the signing bonus. Okay, we talked about this before. And that's had the 10th pick in the draft that same year.

Mike Grizzle was under instructions not to draft a guy who would fit that slot. To draft a guy who would cost less. Now they drafted you, Storm, who had a couple good years for them. But that's what's the point. The point is, after they drafted Drew Storen and paid him his million-dollar signing bonus,

the next five guys after him all got more money. Okay, so they drafted Drew Storren under orders from the learners because he would be cheaper. Right. This is who, this is, they're not all of a sudden. They liked Mike Rizzo. Okay? It's not like they hated Rizzo, and now they got him out of there, and now they're going to start spending money and doing things the right way.

So two things. One, do you think that when DeBartolo said we were all in agreement that Willits would have been the Rizzo pick? No. No, I don't. I think it would have been Kate Anderson. Really? Yeah. I mean, the guy, he's almost a pitcher.

Paul Skeeds was, the guy who went to Pittsburgh, not, to Pittsburgh, not quite as good, but nearly as good, did everything that he did, let LSU to a national championship. And he's a lefty. I mean, it's just insane. This franchise can't tolerate any more rebuilding. By the time this kid gets here, he'll be able to shake hands with James Wood. I think he goes out the door. Yeah, who was good last night.

He didn't get to the final four of the home run derby. He acquitted himself fine. A lot of pressure in that home run. No doubt. No doubt. Yes. Interesting. The second question was, since you've already answered that this was the least expensive

of the options at number one, I mean, doesn't it say in many ways that they've just rebooted the rebuild process? Yes. Yes, it does. But again, speaking to James Wood and McKenzie Gore and C.J.A., that core group of players that you've got,

you know, you've got to make the most of the time you have them because they're not going to be here. Well, could it be an indication that they're going to trade Gore at the end of the month? I think anything's possible. He's a Boris client, so he's not going to sign here. Right. You know, it's at Willis, it's not a Boris client.

I know. The other two were. Yes. The Holiday and Anderson were. Yes. And look, I don't know. I'm not saying this is a new policy or something that was a conscious thing. It's very tempting to avoid Boris players because of what I've just said.

He does not let his players. He talks them out of signing extensions. He wants them all to become free agents, and they all make a lot of money, most of them, as a result of that. But Boris usually has the best players. You might hate them, but you can't ignore him. You know, Peter Angelo's, for like a dozen years, refused to draft any more players with the number one pick, and they had, you know, losing season after losing season. then he drafted Mani Machado, Matt Weeders, two Boris clients,

and then they won on a five-year winning spree and made the playoffs three of those five years. Boris is tough to live with, but he usually gets the best players. I'm not saying that this is some kind of new policy, but it's tempting to avoid Boris clients. I understand that, especially for this franchise. The ironic thing was there was a time where Scott Boris was like a member of a learner family. Right.

I know. You know? Yeah. All right. That's interesting. You think Rizzo would have taken Kate Anderson had he remained as the general manager. Yeah, but I don't know. That's just my guess.

Okay. That's my hunch. You didn't have to say you didn't know. Now that you've said you. Why not? Well, because I think people would have just assumed that you knew something. Well, I'm trying. I don't want to mislead people. Well, I don't know. We could have gotten maybe a headline out of that.

Now you just blew it. All right. I will talk to you later. We'll be back on Thursday. See you, Tommy. See you, boss.