The Kevin Sheehan Show - Terry's No-Show...Bad Look?

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

Kevin and Thom with more on last night's Commanders-Bengals preseason game including divergent opinions on Jayden Daniels' touchdown run. The boys discussed Terry McLaurin not showing up for last night's game a few days after coming off the PUP list. Also, John Wall announced his official retirement from the NBA. Kevin has Wall on his Bullets/Wizards Mount Rushmore and thinks it's a no-brainer to retire his jersey. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. I don't know if that was a message being sent by Cliff Kingsbury on their first offensive snap. But it was a play that worked. Jet sweep 19 yards, Debo Samuel. That was the first of a four-play drive that opened up the game.

And then all of those players, including the quarterback. took a seat for the most part. Tommy's here. I am here. The show's presenting sponsor is always, Window Nation, 86690 Nation, windownation.com if you need new windows. I, Tommy, said, I don't know, a month or so ago,

that if Debo Samuel can stay healthy, which is a huge if, I think he's going to have a big year. I think this is a good fit for him. Cliff Kingsbury, best quarterback he's played with. It's a contract year. We know what his talent and ability is. Really, his issue has been availability.

If they can keep him upright and healthy, what a weapon to add to this offense. And it seemed like Cliff couldn't wait to show, I don't know, maybe Terry, maybe the rest of the league. Look at what we got this year. A new toy. Yeah. It was the beginning of a very, a window of fun for commanders fans. A window of fun.

It was a window of fun. I mean, the rest of the night was, you know, it was your typical preseason illusion. Yeah. But that was a window maybe into the future, and it was fun. Yeah, I think any time that you put your first team, and by the way, it wasn't really their first team offense,

they were missing several starters from the particular. rejected week one starting line up on the whole left side of the line. Yeah, I mean, right? Yeah, three-fifths of the line, basically. Yeah. But when you open up by running seven total plays in three minutes, and those seven plays generate 16.9 yards per play and 14 points, that's, you know, that's impressive, even knowing that it was preseason.

against a team that struggled mightily last year on defense. And man, one of my thoughts in watching that game last night is, if I were a Cincinnati fan, I'd be terrified, even though it's the preseason. I mean, they just don't look like they're any better on defense. They looked slow. They looked, you know, soft. There was just a lot to that defense that if you're in Cincinnati, you're like, my God, Joe's going to have to put up 45 a game for us to.

to have a chance this year. Yeah, I'd be worried if I was a Bengals fan. Yeah. Absolutely. So other than, you know, the fun for the fans early on, what else? I did a post-game podcast last night. I'll add to that today on the show. But if you want to hear my immediate reaction, it's about a 42-minute show.

Chris Rodriguez jumped on from the locker room at the end of the show. You can go back and listen to it. I posted it just after midnight last night. But what else? You know, did you, in all seriousness, how much of it did you watch? Well, look, I had this morning, I had a 3 a.m. BWI Airport run. Okay. So I watched the first half last night.

Hold on, hold on. I didn't watch the second half. A 3 a.m. BWI run. What time was? No, it's from here. I had to leave at 3 o'clock. It was like a, you know, I like to get people to the airport early. It sounds like it.

At the time I get to BWI, it's 4.30. You know, they have like a 6 o'clock flight. Okay. This is like when you get to the stadium three hours before the game. Yes. It takes. I know you and I are different. I am an airport early guy because things go.

It takes you an hour and a half to get to BWY from Frederick at 3 a.m.? At 3 a.m.? Yeah. What are you driving in the right lane, 45 miles per hour? You know, when I told you, I had to get up early for an airport run. Yeah. I expected a little bit of goddamn sympathy, not to be berated. Okay?

Well, the problem was... Now, call your jets. If you had just said, I had to get up. early for a BWI run to drop people off for a flight, I wouldn't have said anything. But you didn't say that. You said I had to get up and leave at 3 a.m. for an airport run. Like right now, just so you know, in the middle of the day, Frederick to BWI, 51 minutes. That's in the middle of the day.

So it should be about 40 to 45 minutes, tops. Well, that's not accurate. Okay. That's not accurate. Okay. Did they make their flight, or was it close? Yeah, they made their flight. Okay, good.

They made their flight. Yeah. So I only watched the first half of the game last night. You should have. We had a couple hours. You didn't even need to watch the first half. You only needed to watch the first drive. Yeah, the window.

Yeah. The happiness window. The fun window. This was the fun window. It's like fun mirrors. Except. Except. Except.

The touchdown run by Jane Daniels. Yeah. To me, that was problematic. To me, a smart young quarterback in his second year in a game that meant absolutely nothing to put himself at risk to score was a bit of selfish immaturity. Okay. I mean, I understand the concern, and trust me, when he started moving around and then he decided to take off, I'm like, oh, boy, let's just get this thing into an area where

you can get down and not take any necessary, unnecessary hits. but selfish immaturity, if you're going to put a competitor on the field in a, you know, even if it's a quasi-competition, sorry, but that might happen. And, you know, if he just throws it away and takes a shot in the pocket, there's just as much of a chance of him getting hurt there. Well, I mean, you know, thank God to the Cincinnati defensive backs realize. that it was a preseason game. Yeah. Right.

Because they could have laid them out. You know, I mean, there's questions as to whether or not that's why Quinn didn't put him back in. Because they asked, they asked Jaden. You know, they said, did anyone say anything to you about sliding? He said, they took me out after that. Yeah. So he thinks that he got pulled because of the run. I'll tell you one thing, though.

You know, I know that I am very much a mocker of all of this preseason stuff and training camp stuff and, you know, the play-by-play of practices and the declarations that are made this time of year. And you're not going to get me to change my mind about that. But, you know, one of the examples you would use to sort of just say, you know, you can't evaluate, you know, anything. with this guy when he's got the don't touch me jersey on and everybody else is wearing shorts because a lot of his game is improvisation. You know, it's improvisation. I mean, it's off schedule. It's as Dan Quinn says, it's that second part of the play. And that's what elevates everybody around him is he's good on schedule. He's good dropping back and making the reeds and making the throws. He's not good. He's great at that. But his cheat code is what you saw last night.

And you can't begin to evaluate the status of that until he plays in a game, you know, where he can be tackled, where he's being defended. And you really can't evaluate it until you've seen it for an entire game. But last night on that play, that is the reminder. that for anybody that forgot or anybody that said, oh, he hasn't been running around and, you know, oh, my God, the offense got completely outplayed by the defense and the intra-squad scrimmage or whatever it was. He's a cheat code.

He is... I know that. So basically, what the purpose that was, as it turned out, was to make sure that people show up for the home opener against the giant. He was... He was... He was... How generous of it, of him,

Is it to remind everybody of what he is? I know people, look, it was fun to watch. I mean, he is amazing to watch. You know, he's still the son. But, I mean, it's not too much to ask for a quarterback, you know, in his second year to have more awareness of his surroundings and circumstances. And the circumstances dictated not to take a risk. Yeah. And he did.

Yeah. I mean, look, as far as coming out, he never threw a pass. What was the point of him being in there? Well, that was... If he didn't throw a pass? That was supposed to be a pass, the touchdown run. I know that. Yeah. I know it was supposed to be a pass to Rodriguez.

And you didn't expect, you know, a 19-yard run and a 40-yard run. I'm not criticizing how it worked out for them. But, you know, what was the point? of putting him out there. If he's not going to at least throw a pass, the only pass he through was the underhanded pass to Crosky Merritt after he went and got the ball for him in the end zone. So he'd have a souvenir.

Isn't he spectacular to do that? I mean... I mean, again, you know why people love him. You know why teammates love him. Yeah. I mean, he seems to be the real thing from top to bottom, inside and out. I think... And I love him for him for.

that. But I just would have, I mean, I would have, if he was my quarterback, I would have, you know, Dan Quinn lifted him up after he came off the field, grabbed him and lifted him up. I think it was because he wanted to choke him. Because I'm sure they've had that discussion so many times. Yeah. Well, look, I mean, they've already, you know, made a statement about putting him at risk by making him play that game with a badly broken rib. Yes. And you wound up getting the play of the year out of it. I get that. I wouldn't describe it as selfish immaturity, but I do agree I felt like when he started to take off, I don't want you doing this. I want you getting rid of the ball quickly. Now, I went back and

watch that play on the All-22 from the end zone. And he's got Debo. He could unload it quickly. He said he was looking for Rodriguez on the corner route. Rodriguez got held a little bit and really wasn't open, although it was man coverage. But, you know, I think it's just the competitor in him. He plays football. This is what he does. This is a big part of who he is. And, you know, the truth is, it's kind of hard to catch him. It's kind of hard to get a direct shot on him. He could have taken one near the goal line. There's no doubt. And it's preseason in the Cincinnati. defenders decided to treat it like it was preseason. But selfish immaturity is a bit too much for me.

I can't describe it as that. I think he's just... Okay. He's a football player. He's competing. Okay. I know he's a competitor. Yeah.

But he's a thoughtful, supposed to be a thoughtful football player. Yeah. You know? I mean, when players get penalties for roughing and for, you know, things like that, you know, for, you know, they're competitive. Well, it's just, but that doesn't mean. What if the worst case had happened? He'd taken a massive shot and gotten injured on the play.

Who would have been blamed for it today? I would say him followed by the coach. Yeah, I would. I mean, you have to play the quarterback. Yeah. Yeah, you got to play him a little bit. You don't have to. I've got to play him a little bit.

He'd only been in the play. The game less than a half-quarter. Right. And so I don't think everyone would have said to Quinn, you shouldn't have had him out there. Right. But it didn't happen. He gave everybody a Jane Daniels' moment. And that's what he does.

Yeah. It just doesn't count in the preseason. We'd like to see that. We will see that happen in the regular season. Who thinks it won't happen? You haven't been paying attention. But the running, the running game was very encouraging unless your name is Brian Robinson. Yeah, Brian Robinson Jr. is done, obviously. He's done. And last night, again, preseason team that they were playing, not very good on defense, we think.

but you know anytime you're averaging 17.7 yards per carry over your first six runs and the two leading candidates to kind of replace Brian Robinson Jr. One goes six for 62 and the other one 11 for 46 but has a 27 yard touchdown. You know, you've kind of given the front office and the coaching staff immediate validation on moving away from Brian Robinson, Jr. If that's what you were looking for. You know, I think, too, last night, I think it's interesting to sort of contemplate, you know,

is Chris Rodriguez the guy that will be on the field first against the Giants, you know, in that opening offensive huddle as the first down back, or will it be, you know, Kroski Merritt, Bill? because, you know, Rodriguez was the first guy last night, and Rodriguez only got six carries and 11 snaps versus 19 snaps and 11 carries for the other guy who was playing in the second half. So I don't know if that's a tell or not,

but I think ultimately what I had suggested yesterday on the podcast, not the post-game podcast, but the one that I did with Doc yesterday, I think that they just believe that by committee to start with, meaning Debo, Rodriguez, Kroski, Merritt, and Echler, that that is just, you know, they're going to be able to more than offset Brian Robinson's, you know, significant number of carries and for, you know, a lot less. I mean, 3.4 million in savings after they trade him or cut him. By the way, I would not cut him until after this upcoming weekend. Let everybody play one more game just in the event that there is an injury. And, you know, you're not doing him a disservice necessarily by waiting another week before releasing him if you can't trade him.

And I think there's a chance that they won't be able to trade him. But I think there's a chance they could get a conditional sixth as well. It's probably a coin flip. But, you know, even though starters, for the most part, won't be playing this final weekend, a key backup could go down, and that could create the opportunity for somebody to send a conditional pick to Washington for him. But, yeah. I mean, I don't think they're going to get anything for him, but you hope that maybe there's a general manager or a front office executive somewhere who maybe had him high on their board, you know, at some point when he, when he was, when he was, when he, when he was, he was drafted. A lot of times you get front office guys like that.

You know, they had this player, they were high on this player, and a couple years later for circumstances, they become available. And, you know, they take a shot at it. But would you trade for him? It would depend on what I have. I don't think Brian Robinson, Jr. stinks. I just know what he is. You know, he is a thumper.

He's, you know, a good short-yardage guy. I think he's a little bit more versatile than people think, but he's not worth it to me with one year left on his deal at $3.4 million when his availability has been an issue. And maybe there are some other things that have been part of this, too, that we don't even know about. But, you know, what they have, you know, in total, including Debo being a part of the running game, I think they'll be fine. I don't think they're going to lose at all. And I think last night, even though it was against Cincinnati, and it was a pre-stimbing.

season game. We've liked, most of us have liked Rodriguez. I think most, everybody listening has said to themselves or to somebody else when Rodriguez has gotten chances, man, that guy's pretty good as a runner. And there's certainly belief in the new guy. So, yeah. Yeah, I think, I think that they're doing the right thing here for sure. And if they can get anything else, anything else in the game that you particularly like, that do you like the defense in the beginning, at least the past, the pressure they put on Burrow? Here's what I like the most,

other than the first two drives and everything that came with it, including, by the way, John Bates, who is legitimately one of the top blocking tight ends in the game. Yes, he is. And I didn't emphasize this enough, I don't think, on the post-game podcast that I did late last night. You know, last week, I think it was justifiable criticism, preseason game or not, to say, you know, they just didn't play with a lot of energy. I mean, now, the 30 players that were missing were rather important players, and we saw the difference last night with players who are going to make the team playing in a game versus many players who are not going to make the team playing in a game.

But that shouldn't really be a big part of effort, enthusiasm, energy. which the head coach had a problem with last week. And it's something that I think last year we got used to expecting that the team, even though there were limitations on the team, they were going to play hard, they were going to play fast, they were going to play physically, they were going to play with energy and enthusiasm.

I always feel like, and you know me forever, and you say, well, what else are they supposed to do? but I see it all the time in sports. There are teams that don't feel that urgency, and I think that's a big part of coaching. I think coaching is a, you know, yeah, there should be some self, you know, motivation for a professional athlete,

but, you know, in the whole of a 53-man roster, in this case, a 90-man roster, I think when you see a team playing a meaningless game with energy and effort, it's a good sign. And they didn't have that last week, and they had that last night. And you know, based on the way Quinn talked about the Patriots game, this was an emphasis for him and his staff this week.

In fact, his very first statement last night was, if there was a thought bubble over my head, it would be, okay, there it is, the energy, the intensity. It was definitely good to see that. And that's what was noticeable to me last night. And it was not there a week ago. And if you just go back to last year, this team responds to this head coach and this coaching staff. And it's one of the reasons they hired him because he's so well thought of, so highly respected. He was able to attract all of those coaches who also have a ton of respect from players in coaching.

around the league. I just think that this team is well-coached. I think that there are better coaches than Dan Quinn, X's and O's-wise and otherwise. But I think this staff is really, really good. And we know from our own history here, a great staff is a big part of a big run. Now, the Gibbs staff, I agree with all that. Didn't need Jaden Daniels to do it. In this day and age, you're better off with a Jaden Daniels. But I don't know. That stood out. I didn't emphasize it enough last night in kind of going through the game. And, you know, a lot of what we've talked about, you know.

Defensively, we didn't get a chance to see Tray Amos, you know, against, you know, Higgins and Chase, who were only in there for a series. But there were some positives for sure, you know. Jalen Lane looks the part to me. You know, everybody's told me that. We'll see if he ends up. being a big part of what they want to do. You saw him on the outside last night. They wanted to test him there because he really appears to be more of a slot guy,

but that's really Debo's role. So how are you going to get him on the field? But yeah, a lot of energy, a lot of mistakes, penalties on that opening drive. But I don't know, other than just, you know, the two running backs and Bates and the offensive line and Jaden's one run, I don't know. To me, the bigger story was Burrow, how they had him out there taking some of the shots he was taking. I know. Because they've got, you know, they've got one of, like our team, they've got one of the top four or five. And they got him playing an awful lot and they don't seem to care that he's taking a lot of shots with a makeshift offensive line, which he had going into the game.

And then his weapons, Jason Higgins, only played one series. Yeah. And then there was Mitch Tinsley, you know, who was here a few years ago. Right. Who a lot of people liked in the preseason when he was here. And he had two insane, three really insane catches. And he's on a team that's loaded at wide receiver. But I don't think they're going to get rid of them.

Yeah. Those were, you know, some of the things that really stood out. You know, I screened at the TV when this happened. I was at my cigar lounge up here in Frederick quartermasters, and I screamed at the TV when Frankie Louvre jumped off sides on fourth down. I mean, everybody in the room I was in, and I'm sure in the stadium he was playing in, knew what Joe Burrow was trying to do, and he still jumped.

Joe Burrow was definitely trying to do it. In a preseason game at midfield, I would have not known for sure that that was their plan. Why not go for it? I mean, you know, there's no reason not to go for it in a preseason game. But yes, in watching it as it developed, they were trying to draw Washington sides. Yeah. And they didn't work.

He was showing all the signs of waiting for somebody to jump. And sure enough, somebody did. Yep. And they wound up scoring on that drive. They wound up scoring on that drive. They did with the help of another penalty. That was, you know, seven penalties, 74 yards this week, 13 last week. I'm sure that Quinn wasn't thrilled about that.

But again, you know, and those were starters defensively. Louvo, you know, Noah I on the interference matched up against Chase, which was DPI. Some of you tweeted me saying that, why didn't you rip that call? Well, did you see the replay he was grabbing his jersey, you know, and pulling on it? Jamar Chase, this just in tough cover. The final score means nothing to me. There's zero chance

after Jaden came out of the game last night that I would have watched any of the remainder of the game if I didn't have to. It's dreadful the whole product. You went to bed, you know, based on the time you got up, I think a quarter and a half too late. But, you know, there were a couple of performances that people are like 51.

I didn't know anything about Cahoe, the kid from UCLA. I thought he looks like a player. I was a Cain Madrano fan to begin with. I think he's going to make the team. Yeah, I mean, to me, the biggest surprise was that Bill Kroski Merritt was in the game in the second half. Like if they're so convinced that they got it right on this kid in the 7th 3, rounder, what was he doing in there in the second half? Like, he's going to be on the team.

They all like him. Even Rodriguez told me on the post-game pod last night that he's really talented and that he's got a chance to be really good. So we'll see when they start the real games. Oh, Sam Hartman just doesn't look like an NFL quarterback. He's a college quarterback. We're probably going to see him for the last time on Saturday. We'll see a lot of him on Saturday, I would imagine.

Yeah. Yeah, because we're not going to see anybody else. Against the Ravens. Yeah. Look, we've got to get to this Terry situation. Terry was a no-show. Was it a bad look? We'll answer the question next and talk about what's next with Terry

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Terry McClure was a no-show last night, Tommy, at the game. Trey Hendrickson, by contrast, also in kind of a bitter dispute with his team, was there. And he had to travel with the team to get there. You know, I talked about this a little bit last night. You know, for me, the net of it is, I'm sure there's something that we don't know, or I'll take that into consideration that there's something. thing that we don't know about why Terry was a no-show last night. But if there isn't anything significant about this situation, and he just decided on his own or with his agent's advice

not to post for the game after he was activated off the Pupplist over the weekend, and Quinn talked about this plan to ramp him up for, you know, the opener, then this makes Terry McClorn now a holdout, not a hold in anymore. And I think the team may start to treat him like a holdout if he doesn't get back to work and get back to work quickly. And I think tomorrow becomes a significant day because they have their last practice, legitimate practice of the week before they get ready for a Saturday 12 noon game against the Ravens.

like on grass, in pads, practice tomorrow. If he doesn't post or if he doesn't take the work that they're expecting him to take, and instead he just feels like showing up is a hold in, I think that's going to be a problem. And it's going to be interesting to see tomorrow what Terry decides to do based on what he's asked to do. I don't know what he's going to be asked to do. Quinn said they've got a plan and Terry is on board with the plan.

I would have assumed that the plan would have included him being at the game last night. Not playing and I don't think he'll play against Baltimore either. He's not ready to play. But this has a chance to get uglier. I still think a deal will get done because I think Terry will eventually come to his senses along with his agent, I hope, and understand that this is his last best opportunity to get paid a lot of money. But, you know, the question today I posed on radio, was it a bad look for Terry? I don't have all the information, but I would say that it was more of a bad look than,

you know, a good look or a no look at all, especially with the contrast you could draw to Trey Hendrickson there and communicating with his teammates on the sideline during the game. What do you say? I didn't give it that much thought because I would have assumed that his absence was something that was probably agreed upon. I mean, if not, and if he just didn't post, then I would think they'd be finding him. And I think they make the announcement. I mean, you have a player who doesn't show up for a game, you know, you've got, you've got to address that unless it's already been addressed, and there is some kind of plan in place.

Yes. And that's possible. I'm acknowledging that that's a possibility. I know that. They had a mutual agreement that he wasn't going to show up. But why wouldn't he show up? I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know what it is, but I think the team went along with it because I can't fathom them letting a player just not show up for a game. you know, that's not holding in or holding out or what, that's, that's a level of disrespect that you can't tolerate. I fully understand and believe there's a chance that, you know, team knew it, Terry knew it, they agreed that it was okay for him to miss. But given his activation off Pupplest, given that Quinn spent part of Saturday talking about this plan

for Terry and that Kingsbury said it's time to get him back on the grass and they all agree that it's time to get him back working towards, you know, playing football on September 7th against the Giants. It just seems like it's a different position that he's in off the pup list, you know, for this game than it was for the New England game. And again, maybe this was agreed upon and he'll be at practice tomorrow and he's going to be willing to go out and, you know, put at risk, I guess. you know, by practicing normally with the rest of the team in preparation for September 7th. Again, he's not going to play against Baltimore in part because I don't think anybody's going to play against Baltimore. I mean, think about this too in terms of Terry's preseason misses, preseason game misses. He wouldn't have played against New England because the starters didn't play,

and he would have played four snaps last night on the opening drive and then would have sat the Baltimore game. But I do think Tommy that they are probably, and I say they, because I put Terry and the agent together on this, they are, you know, there's a risk that if they continue to be hurt and angered and frustrated, et cetera, and, you know, lash out by not participating or trying to hold in where the team's been accommodating, you know, with the ankle injury, with the Pupless so that they didn't find them, that you could get a complete shift in tone from the team. Where the team said... Yeah, where the team says, yeah, you know, enough is enough now.

This is where we are? Yeah. I think the team should be smart enough to realize that if he's not on the field tomorrow, the whole Dan Quinn press conference, well, he usually meets the reporters before the practice. So, I mean, what was not asked post-game about Terry will be asked before practice if that's when Quinn meets with reporters tomorrow. Yeah. And we might get something like, oh, no, we had an understanding about the game, but Terry's here and he's ready. We've got a plan. It's a plan that works. This is what he said the other day in terms of ramping them up,

ramping them up off the Pupp list. And maybe it doesn't include, you know, some of the the practice stuff that he hasn't participated in quite yet. Maybe that starts next week after the Baltimore game. I don't know. But I do have a very strong feeling that there is some frustration starting to bubble up within team circles, if it hasn't already. with certainly the agent. But look, Terry's a smart guy.

Terry is an adult. You know, the agent works for him. And so at some point, they're going to say, it's time do you know what or get off the pot? Because, you know, this offer, we're offering you, we believe, to be generous and gracious because we don't have to do it. And we're going to pull it soon. and you're either going to play on the contract that you have now

or you're not and it's going to be very costly for you. I do think that there's a chance it gets to that point where the team says, sorry, enough is enough now. You know, you're going to have to tell your agent that Justin Jefferson money or even D.K. Metcalfe money is not in the cards for you. It ain't happening. Yeah.

You know, it's funny. go ahead. Adam Peters. I've seen some national media in the past week or so, you know, actually talk about how Adam Peters has proven to be kind of a hard ass. Charles Robinson Jr., Yahoo, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That no one really, I mean, based on his persona in public, you don't necessarily see that side of him. but he may be gaining a reputation. And you know what? I think that they should make an agreement with Terry, and I think, I think, you know,

$28, $29 million is not unreasonable. But if the general manager thinks that, you know, we can do better, but not this year, that's the problem. They can't do better this year. but we could do better with that money and get a better receiver down the line, you know, in the draft or something like that. You know, you have to believe in the general manager, I guess. But the only leverage Terry has is, and it's really little leverage,

but it's something is they don't want to waste any years of Jaden Daniel's rookie contract. They want to compete for the Super Bowl this year. And, you know, through some unforeseen circumstance, if this gets in the way, that would have been a foolish stand to take. But, you know, and I said this to Ben, I think, yesterday, I don't think that they feel like they're taking a stand. I think they feel like, from their perspective, it's what I told you last week, even before this Charles Robinson information came out, that they're doing something they don't have to do, but they're doing it because they do like the player. They do respect the player.

They do want the player for his on-the-field prowess as well during Jaden's rookie deal. I think, you know, what Charles Robinson reported, longtime Yahoo NFL reporter, the team was completely stunned, was the word he used, by what Terry initially asked for, which was north of what Justin, Jefferson makes at 35 plus million a year. So that would have put him as the second highest paid receiver in the game.

And it broke down the conversation almost immediately because the team essentially said, what planet are you on? And then when they got backed up and said, well, the DK Metcalf deal, the team still said, what planet are you on? And he said that he thinks the middle ground is 27 to 28, 50 to 60 guaranteed. deed. He said what, you know, you already mentioned that people are learning that Adam is a tough negotiator. He also said that there isn't a team that he's talked to or a GM that he's talked to around the league that says anybody in the league would give Terry anywhere near what he's asking for.

And I think one of the things that this, the last few weeks, it's taught me anyway, is that a 30-year-old wide receiver seeking his third contract and a big extension, these are not givens in the league at this position for this age. Far from it. You know, Washington's willing to give him one, but not one that drastically overpays the market and sets a precedent for, you know, a front office negotiating its first big deal. You know, I think it's going to come down to, will, and his agent say it's 50 and 27, 28, maybe 29, whatever, however they dress it up now, or we'll never see this opportunity and be a little bit hurt that we had to give so much. Or we'll never see a deal like this again because the odds, there's no way that agent could say to Terry,

you're better off playing on the final year of your deal and not taking 50 million guaranteed because we can get more next year. From where? He's not going to get more next year. Okay. Let me ask you this. Do you think if Adam Peters had drafted

Terry McClorn, he would feel a little bit differently? I don't think so. I really don't. I think he would. I think it's GM disease. They feel different about their guys. It's a statement about them,

as much as anything. This is why it's funny. Because Brian Robinson, and for different reasons, and Terry McLaurin, neither of which Adam Peters granted. So I think the love is not necessarily there because they're not their guys. Look, not every GM does that. But many of the GMs I've covered in all sports have a tendency to like the guys they picked more. Yeah, but they gave Sam Cosmi a contract extension. And if there were other really, really good players, you know, before the prime years of their career in their mid-20s, I think they'd be willing to give those players the same deal.

I don't think I agree with you on that. I think there are certainly times where they're going to go with their guy over the last regime's guy as a tiebreaker for sure. but Terry's a really good player. I think they recognize him as such. One of the things that Adam Peters said is we really like Terry and we do want to sign Terry to a deal. But I also think that there is a point in which, you know, the player kind of goes beyond what's fair and that sours it on the other side as well, especially when they stick with it. I think, you know, a lot of people have these experiences in their own job.

It's like, you know, they come to you and they say, you know, we do want to give you a new deal. We want to increase your compensation. And, you know, they make an offer. And then the person's like, oh, my God, that's so insulting. No, this is what I want. And then it's like they didn't have to do that. But they did it. And then you've got to make the decision.

Do you have, what are your options? And that's the problem here. Terry doesn't have any options. Like, there's nothing he can do to make this, you know, end up being what he wants it to be. If he had leverage 24, 25 years old, plenty of time to get a big deal somewhere else, play on the franchise tag next year, and then hit the market in 27 as a 28-year-old. But he doesn't have that as an option. So, I don't know.

interesting. The way this has developed, I would have never predicted. Clearly, I didn't predict it. I don't think most people predicted it. And I think also what I've learned is that this age thing and the teams that are heavy on age analytics for this position, you know, the Tarek Hills and the Devante Adams are going to get big contract extensions at 30 or older. But Terry's not either one of the. those two players. If he were, we'd be having a different conversation. If he was Tariq Hill or Devante Adams at 29 turning 30, it'd be a far different conversation. But the other thing we've learned is they don't view him that way. And I think that is accurate because he's not that. And I don't think he's ever been that. Tomorrow's an interesting day, Tommy. I'm telling you, Quinn's going to get asked about it because he didn't get asked about it last night. To your point, it is before practice that he'll talk, right?

Is that the schedule for tomorrow? I don't know, but it generally is. Yeah, I'm just looking because we got the email on the schedule. Quinn will speak before practice at 1.30. So it's an afternoon practice on Wednesday, a 2 o'clock practice. So he's going to get asked about it. And then, you know, we'll see what happens. You know, look, you should be able to get from Quinn before that practice.

what the expectations were the other night, what the expectations are for today. You know, maybe he doesn't want to give you the whole ramp-up schedule, but he should say what their expectations are for Terry, you know, today, and should be able to go back and tell you whether or not they were okay that he was a no-show on Monday night. Yeah. He's really, really upset, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, he is. He seems to be. I don't think his agent's done him any favors during this process. But you're right. I mean, if Terry is a smart guy, he knows the agent works for him. He's a smart guy, don't you think? Yeah, if he got bad advice, that should have been readily apparent to him pretty early in this process. Yeah. Buddy Baker, for those of you, and I know we've talked about this before, but Terry is his big, client by far. It's the biggest deal he's ever done.

You know, he's got Tershawne Wharton in Carolina, which is a decent deal. He had Jeremy Chinn. But, you know, Terry, by far and away is his biggest client, and this is the biggest deal he's ever negotiated by far. There are a lot of people out there that believe if a Drew Rosenhouse was involved, this would have been done a long time ago. that Drew would have had a total understanding of the market and the situation and that he would have gotten Washington to the middle ground area of 28, call it, and 50 to 55 million guaranteed,

and it would be done. You know, part of being an agent, part of representing as an agent or a broker or whatever, is to be able to explain to the client why it is they're getting what they're getting. And that seems to be, and sometimes by the, way they explain this is why you're worth what you're worth and you're not taking anything less than that. But it's hard to make that case based on what we've heard reported, what we've read reported about what they initially asked for because that is, that's just not reality for a player of Terry's caliber entering age 30. That is an elevation, you know, by themselves of what he is

and what he's meant. All right. Washington added a player today. I do think it's interesting. We'll talk about that. And John Wall officially retired from basketball today. I've got a thought on that. I'm sure Tommy's got more.

We'll get to all of it after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelley. Look, it's still August out there. and the weather's unpredictable. Sometimes you get cool overcast days here lately, but then all of a sudden you can get a very, very humid, hot 90-plus day, and it's been a very difficult summer in terms of heat and humidity. And Shelley's back room will offer protection from that,

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You go to shelley's backroom.com. And I don't have a humidor because I don't live in town or close to town that much. I guarantee it if I was in within 10 miles of Shelly's, I'd have a humidor. It just takes the pressure away

You're bringing in your own cigars And you can bring your own smokes in the Shelly's There's a lot of places that would resent that. Shelly's is very democratic. You can bring your own cigars in and smoke them. No issue at all. If you live 10 miles from Shelly's, you'd still probably have to leave early in the morning

To get there for a happy hour. Just to be safe. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Washington signed George Fant today a tackle with 75 career starts in the NFL. Seattle initially, the Jets, Houston, Seattle again last year. He was in Seattle when Quinn was there, I think, for a year as the defensive coordinator. Interesting that they would sign him.

He's a potential left tackle with, you know, Tunsell there last night. You know, there was no tonsil in the lineup. In fact, three-fifths of the offensive line are not the projected eventual starting offensive line. But it'll be interesting to see how they shuffle things here for the opener. Fants a guy that, you know, at 33 years old, man, they do sign some players with some miles on them, don't they? Yes, they do. They are the oldest. They've got the oldest 90-man roster in the league.

but this is what you do when you view this as a window, you know, of opportunity and they want to have experience and they want to players that can play and Fant can play. We'll see whether or not he snags one of those offensive line offensive tackle spots on the final 53 man roster. Ben just put out his updated 53 man roster and he's got Fant making the team. There you go. He was an athlete, by the western Kentucky basketball player. That sounds like a name that would be a ball player like from the 50s. George Fant? Yeah. It just has that kind of name to it. You know, George Fant. You know, he played right guard for the Redskins in the 50s. Is it, is it George or Fant?

Like, you know, right? Because 50s names were, you know, George and Charles and. Yeah, I think it's the first name. The first name. Okay. Well, we still have a lot of Georgia's, don't we? It's a combination of the two. Yeah.

Let me look up 50s popular names. I love doing this sometimes, especially with you. What do you think the most popular boy's name in the decade of the 1950s was? I'm going to say, I'm going to say Harry. No. God, where is Harry on this list? Oof, way down the list. Thomas.

Thomas is eighth on the list. Okay, what is it? I have a feeling that if we did the 40s, you'd be right. James is number one. And then what about the number one female name of the 1950s? Dolores. That's a good guess, although it's not a number one. top 20. Mary is number one. I think if we go to 40s names, I think some of the names you're

thinking about are going to be, you said Dolores, like, actually 40s, it's still James, and then Robert, then John, then William, Richard, David, Charles, Thomas, Michael Ronald, Mary, Linda, Barbara, Patricia Carroll, Sandra, Nancy, Sharon, Judith, Susan. Maybe it's 1930s. Boy, this is, this is scintillating content. Yes, it is.

It is. What's your middle name? Michael. Okay. What's your middle name? Francis. I think if I... But for years,

when I was a kid, I always used to tell people Frank, because Francis could be a woman's name, too. Yeah. And I used to hate that. So I used to tell people it was Frank. Yeah You have a confirmation name?

I do Oh my God, I think it's St. Mike. Do you remember it? No. I mean, that's seventh grade. Is it St. Michael? Was there a St. Michael? Yeah, there was a St. Michael.

Yeah, I know. Obviously. Dorothy, by the way, the number two name in the 1920s followed by Helen, Betty, and Margaret. Mary was still number one. Mary was a very popular name for many, many decades. Excuse me, but you're about to be struck down if you can't remember your confirmation. Tommy, I swear to you, and I certainly got confirmed.

I remember getting confirmed. Yeah. Mine with David. I always wanted my real first name to be David. so when I got to pick one, it was David. I had to be Michael. I had to be Michael. I had to be Michael.

I had to be Michael. Okay. Had to be. This is one of the Catholic rituals. Yes. Confirmation, you know. So that you go through when you're probably eight or nine, nine maybe? No.

In order for me, it was First Communion, which was first grade, first confession. which was third grade, and then confirmation was, I think, sixth or seventh grade for me. You got things backwards. You can't do communion without... I'm telling you, confession came after First Communion for us. You had a renegade parish. Very progressive parish, the Church of the Little Flower in Bethesda.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure of the sacraments for me. that was in order. Of course, baptism was first. But, yeah, I'm... Of course. Let me just see. Are you... Somebody else said that to me recently. That there's no way that I didn't do confession before... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

In order, sacraments of the Catholic Church. You don't get to eat the bread unless you still your gut. I know. I know. It makes sense, but I don't remember that being... Yeah, actually, believe it or not, here's what's written, at least, you know, per Google. Baptism followed by confirmation and then First Communion and then Penance or Confession as we know it. So it does follow First Communion. But that's wrong. Well, it wasn't the way I got it.

Yeah. I don't know anyone who got it like that. Confirmation for me came after First Communion. union and confession. Yeah, that was later. Coach, you got to pick your confirmation name. Right. Which I've promptly forgotten. But I think it definitely is, I'm pretty sure it is Michael.

I think I picked my middle name because it was a Saints name. Now, do you remember like confessions and, you know, very good, Kevin. Now go, say, five, you know, have. Hail Mary's and five and our fathers. And then you'd have to sit there. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with the Blessed Art thou. Yeah.

Yeah. Amongst women, right? Blessed is the fruit of... All right. No pray. No praying. Holy Mother. We know a radio show that went off the air because they prayed.

Really? Oh, yes. I do remember that radio show. Yeah, they took a moment early in the show to pray. They did. Yes. Yeah. Yes, they did.

In part because they didn't have anything to say. All right. What are we doing here? We're going to do John Wall. Yes, we're going to do John Wall. So John Wall, I didn't know that he, actually, I did know this because when I had him on a few months back, he said, you know, he still hopes to play again. So he was not officially retired at that point. I have really enjoyed over the last year.

I think I've had John on the podcast twice and on the radio show once. I think that's what it is. He is a hoops junkie. I mean, a major hoops junkie. He actually really should pursue coaching, but he likes doing media. And I found him to be so much different than when he was a player. You know, super candid, fearless, also very likable.

You've probably not listened to any of my conversations with Walkes. Unless you're on the show, you don't listen. But let me just net it out. John Wall, for me, as a lifelong Bullets Wizards fan, for the Bullets being in D.C., I take Baltimore out of the equation. He's on Mount Rushmore. You know, the top two are easy. Put them in any order you want.

I think I would put him Elvin Hayes 1, West Unseld 2. But I understand those that would say West Unseld 1, Elvin Hays 2. Bobby Dandridge, because of what he brought this city in 1978 and in 1979, is on my Mount Rushmore, even though he wasn't a bullet for a long period of time, but he was such a significant part. They don't win the title in 78. They don't go back to the NBA finals in 79 without Bobby Dandridge. He's on my Mount Rushmore, and John's on my Mount Rushmore as well. I know I'm leaving Gilbert off and Phil Sheenier off.

and, you know, some have pushed back and said Jeff Malone needs to be on that. I don't think of Jeff Malone as a Mount Rushmore bullet. I think of Phil Schneier more as a Mount Rushmore bullet than I do Jeff Malone. But John's on that list for me. Am I nuts? I don't think I'm nuts. You're Mount Rushmore. Look, you're a wizard. I'm not going to tell you you're wrong.

I mean, you've been passionate. You grew up with this team. I have no right to tell you who your Mount Rushmore would be or my opinion on it. And for, and, you know, I mean, like Gus Johnson and Earl Monroe, you're from Baltimore. Yeah, I'm not counting Baltimore. I said that. This is Bullets in D.C. So 73 on. And, you know, obviously when they, you know, change their name to the Wizards. This is Bullets Wizards, D.C. franchise. That's what I am doing my Mount Rushmore. You would believe that the Wissor should retire John Walt's number. I do. Absolutely.

I don't think that Bradwood-Beele's jersey should be retired. Not at all. No. No, not at all. And Gilbert's, you know, there is a segment of the population that would like to retire Gilbert. And that would be like idiotic. That would be so ridiculously foolish based on what he did to the franchise. I saw him a video of him because he does lock up this, I guess, successful podcast.

And somebody got in trouble, some athlete got in trouble late at night. And he was given this speech that, you know, never go out. Nothing happens good past 10 o'clock at night. So you don't want to be out there. And I'm thinking, this is a guy who got in trouble in the middle of the day, you know? Yeah. And he's talking about getting in trouble. I mean, 24 hours a day, Gilbert was getting into trouble.

You know, so I thought, fine. Didn't he get into, there was the story that he was involved in a gambling ring or hosting one. Yeah. But it turns out that he was released, right now. It turns out that he was released, right? And the house was in his name, but he had nothing to do with hosting these illegal card games, I guess. Well, that's his story. Yeah.

You know, that's his story. I'll tell you one thing, Tommy. But I, I, he could score, man. There was a period of time where Gilbert Arenas, you know, scored at a level that only Elvin Hayes in this franchise scored at. I know. I know. Okay.

But the John Wall wizards were better than the best of the John Wall was. I agree. We're better and the best of the Gilbert Arena's wizard. No doubt. Yes. And I think if they want to retire John Wall's number, I'd have no problem with that. I think it should be retired. I think that's a five-time All-Star.

And I think he meant a lot to the community. You know, I think his injuries not only affected him physically, but I think it affected him mentally as well. And he went through some tough times, but he meant a lot to Washington, D.C. he meant a lot to Wizards fans, and he was a legitimate star when he played. So I think his number should be retired. Absolutely, I think it should be retired.

The Wizards have six numbers, I think. Earl Monroe, Elvin Hayes, Gus Johnson, Weston, South, Phil Shear, five. Five numbers retired. Yeah, Bobby D. didn't play for the franchise long enough to have his jersey retired. He came from Milwaukee, where he won a title with Corrine. with L'Al Cinder. I think he was called Lleu L'Alcinder.

Was he already Kareem at that point? Yeah, Loua Center then. He was Lousselton then and Oscar Robertson. Right, who was very old on that team that won, what, in 74 against the Celtics, I think. Because the next year was the first year in Washington. The bullets were in the finals and got swept by Golden State. But, you know, if the Wizards, if the bullet slash wizards hadn't gone, decade after decade of being so bad.

And it had just moderate success, you know, a couple of stretches here and there, you know, during the 90s, during the early 2000s, which they did, I guess, with Gil and Antoine, you know, etc. I think that we could look at John Wall's career with a little bit more scrutiny as it relates to talking about him as a Mount Rushmore player, but he benefits from just having very few players that could have, that matched his career here. And to your point, you know, after the 78, 79 team,

which again, as we've discussed many times, we are now at 47 years in counting since the Wizards, bullets last title. And 46 years since the last time they were in the NBA final. They had a couple of decent Jeff Rulin, Rick Mahorn teams in the 80s, but they were no threat to go deep. The best teams since the title team and the team that tried to defend the title in the NBA finals, the best teams were the teams that John Wall, Bradley Beal, Martian Gortot, Trevor Orisa, Ney-N-A, you know, and that group, you know, the 2013, 2014, 2014, 2015, then of course the 2017 team that got to a game seven in the second round against the Celtics in a memorable series. They won three playoff series. They were competitive in round two. They were very close to going to the Eastern Conference finals three times. They lost Indiana in six.

John Wall got hurt. They lost to the Hawks in six. And they got to a game seven against Boston in a very, very tightly, you know, contested series. And John Wall obviously had the moment for the Wizards in that series, his game six game winner. Paul Pierce, you know, the year before had that big time shot, or two years before had that big time shot to beat the Hawks when he called a bank. But yeah, John Wall, number two, retired.

He's on my Mount Rushmore for sure. He is. I think some people would say no, arenas goes in before, but I wouldn't say that. I liked and enjoyed much more so his teams. And God, if he doesn't get hurt, he had some limitations. He had some limitations. Sometimes he played fast. Sometimes he couldn't slow down.

Sometimes his jumper was completely unreliable. But it got reliable more as he got older. He had, I think, one of the great playoff games. franchise history. The game that he had against the Hawks in 2017 in game six, when they went on the road and won that game with him going for 42 and basically scoring at one point, I think it was 17 of the team's final 19 points. Here it is. 42 points, eight assists, four steals in that game six where he put the game away and put the series to sleep on the road. That was equivalent to what Elvin Hayes did against the Hawks, actually same team game seven back in 79,

what Bobby D did against the Spurs in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Finals in 79. There have been a few, you know, very few because of the incredible, you know, run of ineptitude this franchise has had, but there have been a few iconic playoff performances, and John Wall has one of them. And that wasn't the game that he hit the shot on to force game seven when he said, this is my town, my city, or whatever the line was. All right.

Anything else? I got nothing else for you, boss. I got nothing else either. Back tomorrow, everybody.