The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Brotherhood Brawl

Episode Date: December 23, 2025

Kevin and Thom today looking back at the brawl between Washington and Philly late in Saturday's game. Was it really a brawl or just a fracus? Thom thinks the teams' "brotherhood" explanation was kind of silly. The boys talked about an NFL "brand equity" report that ranked Washington dead last in the NFL. Plenty more including Skins-Cowboys predictions, Rob Reiner's appearance on "The Rockford Files" and the retweet Thom got because of it, coedine in cough syrup, and whether or not Washington-Dallas needs to be watched live on Christmas Day. For all your football betting needs: DCRELOAD at MyBookie for a 50% Deposit Match Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it, you don't need it, but you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show, here's Kevin. Tommy's here, or he's back, I'm here and back. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, Window Nation, 8669U Nation, WindowNation.com. If you need new windows, we were just talking before we started to record. We did not do a show Thursday. We were going to do it early, and then I couldn't do it early. I told you I could do it early, so it was my fault.

But I'm just curious, because we didn't get a pick from you for the game on Saturday. Did you have a pick ready for me on Thursday? I mean, you can look pretty smart right now, giving it to me. Well, actually, it was probably going to be, I don't know, I didn't make a pick. You usually don't really think about it until I ask you what your pick is. Right. Yeah. Because I knew the Eagles were going to win.

You did. So, I mean, it was really no point in making a pick. It's a good game, though, until Marcus left. I mean, Washington had the lead. They were competitive. They played hard. And then Josh Johnson came on the field. Imagine being a Redskins fan and going into a coma in 2018 when Josh Johnson is a quarterback.

And someone wakes you up like this weekend. you get woken up, and you find out not only has your team changed its name, but the quarterback is still Josh Johnson. Yeah, that sounds like a column to me. You know the funny thing about Josh Johnson and the reason he's still around at 39 years old? Jay Gruden told me this five years ago. He said Josh Johnson is one of the smartest football players I've ever coached, hands down. And the reason they brought him in in that 2018 season,

season, which was the Alex Smith broke his, you know, had the terrible injury, Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez, et cetera. I mean, it was one quarterback after another, is that he knew he could pick up the offense in like two practices. And then, by the way, he played pretty well for Washington down the stretch. They beat Jacksonville with him at the helm, and they almost beat Tennessee, which actually would have kept them in playoff contention at the end of that year. Let me tell you something about Josh Johnson. And if I wasn't so lazy in my old age... You'd write a column about it?

No, no, no, no. He's a book. With all the teams that he's played for, and all the different players and coaches that he's seen, he is a book. Somebody should write that book. Yeah. Too hard work.

Well, I mean, let's also think about who he's been with because that'll be a big deal. Like Tampa drafted him in 2000. He was with Cleveland, Cincinnati, Washington, then the San Diego fleet of the Alliance of American Football, the AAF. Was that what, who coached in that that we know in the AAF? I forget.

Okay. Then he played with, or he signed with the Los Angeles Wildcats of the XFL. I think that was right before the XFL went kaput right during the pandemic. Then he came back and played with the Jets and the Reds. Ravens in 21, the 49ers and 22, back with the Ravens in 24 after taking a year off, and then at 39 years old, being signed by Washington, you know, a familiar face in Adam Peters because he was in San Francisco with him and he's here. Like when they signed him, I can't believe we're opening up with this much Josh Johnson, but when they signed him, you know,

I certainly remember what, you know, Jay Gruden has said about him. And somebody that keeps getting signed over and over again, there's got. to be something to the guy. Especially return trips to different teams. Well, especially when he's actually not very good at playing football. He's just okay. You know, you're not drafting him to bring him in there because you think he's going to finally catch fire

and become the player that, you know, he was always hoping to be. No, it's because he's really smart. He's great in the quarterback room. But when they signed him, I thought there's a chance that they're signing him with his next. career going into coaching or maybe the front office and maybe this was going to be the opportunity.

But now he's going to start more likely than not on Christmas Day. Josh Johnson will. One other thing I wanted to get, before we get to the business, I don't want to miss this or lose this. I know you read my column last week about

the death of Rob Reiter and how he played this character, this semi-pro quarterback. I remember the episode, Tom. Me? Yeah. Yes. King Sturtevin.

Yeah. And I mean, I went out and said that's got to be King Corcoran. I mean, a minor league quarterback named King who was a hustler. Well, tell everybody. I mean, we're bouncing around here at the open, but that's fine. It's typical for us. Tell everybody about the Rockford Files episode, Rob Reiner, tell everybody what you're talking about. I remember both the episode and the NFL film.

piece on the King Corcoran who played in Philly. So tell everybody the story. Well, Rob Reiner played an episode of Rockford Fouse. He played this minor league quarterback named King Sturdivant, who always had some kind of side hustle going. You know, he was a slick operator, a fast talker, and he owned a restaurant in Chicago, but he was in L.A. doing something. and he had tapes of mobsters

talking about their business from his restaurant and the mob was after him the feds were after him and he hired Rockford to be a private investigator for him to hide the tapes and yet the things just kind of snowballed and Rob Reiner was great in this role really entertaining

and Dick Bucketts is in the episode it's a very entertaining episode so and when he when Rob Reiner died I've been, you know, thinking, always thinking about that and thinking that's got to be King Corcoran who played quarterback for Maryland in the 60s and then bounced around with different minor league

football teams in the 60s and 70s and became famous in the documentary that the NFL films did about the Pottstown Firebird. Right. They did this 1970 documentary about the Firebirds and King Corcoran was such a large, larger than life figure, he was the star of the documentary. Yeah.

You know, and among Terps fans in the 60s, who went to Maryland, he's a legend for his off-the-field stuff as much as anything. So I wrote that when Rob Reiner was playing King Sturbanon, he was really playing King Corcoran. Right. The bottom line is, guess who liked it on X on Twitter? James Garner's daughter Really Geeky Garner

Not only did she like it Yeah Now she follows me That's pretty cool That was very cool Yeah I wanted to make sure I got that out I mean

Jimmy Rockford I mean James Garner's best role among A lot of great roles But that's You and I have some shows That we love In common And in terms of 70s shows, I just remember as a kid every Friday night.

It was Sanford and Sun at 8 o'clock on NBC, followed by Chico and the Man at 830, followed by Rockford Files, followed by policewoman with Angie Dickinson. Yes. That was the name of the show, right? Yeah, police woman and Angie Dickinson, absolutely. And Jim Garner was a massive Raiders fan. be on the sideline for all the Raiders games. You know. You can see him in so many old clips that come up.

You see him on the sideline, yeah. So how old's the daughter? Like, did you, did you respond? No, I didn't respond. I mean, she liked this. She didn't say anything to me. She didn't like it. And then the big kick was, now she follows me.

Well, it's also maybe confirmation that you were right. Yes. Yes, it may be. Yeah. Because she remembered actually, and, you know, You know what? A former co-worker of mine at the Baltimore's son, her father was an actor and was in that episode, although I don't know which role. And she told me she watched them film that episode. She was there as a kid when they were filming it watching her dad.

It was just very cool, very cosmic, very Hollywood-type stuff. You know, you mentioned that King Sturdivant, the character played by Rob Reiner, on that Rockford Files episode was, you know, kind of slippery. Nobody was slippier than Angel Martin in terms of the Rockford Files series. One of the all-time great characters. Stuart Margolin played Angel Martin. I don't even, I can't even tell you what else he was in. He has a recognizable face, though.

He was in Kelly's Heroes. Okay. The movie with Clint Eastwood and Tally Savala is a great war movie. Yeah. He was in that. Okay. So do you still watch episodes of Rockford Files? Is it on some obscure channel? It's on Amazon Prime. Oh, it is? So you have Amazon Prime? Yes.

When did you get Amazon Prime? I thought you didn't have Amazon Prime. I have all the standard streaming. I have Netflix. I have Amazon Prime. I don't have Paramount. Okay. I don't have Apple. Right. I've got HBO Macs, and I've got Peacock. That's my inventory. All right.

That's a nice story. It's a good story. By the way, today on the show, we are going to do our Cowboys' Skins pick for Christmas Day. But real quickly, rather than saving it for the end, I do have a smell test pick that I didn't want to forget in case you're getting this late. I'm going to tweet out. I told you guys this. I will tweet out my picks over the holidays so you can follow me at Kevin Shee in D.C. But I'm going over 65, over the total in the Frisco Bowl today, or tonight, excuse me, between UNLV and Ohio.

Of the eight bowl games played so far, not counting the playoff games, six unders, two overs, and people are loaded up on this under because it's a massive number at 65. I'm going over 65 UNLV Ohio tonight in the Frisco Bowl. I have no idea. That's on TV somewhere. I mean, ESPN just has every night, every day.

Like, I think there's a triple header of games today of just bowl games. God, man, the whole bowl thing just, it's a TV thing for ESPN to load up some inventory. People watch them because they bet on them, but God, they're so meaningless. A lot of people aren't working around this time. Yes.

Or they're more inclined to be sitting around watching TV. I will have a show out tomorrow. It'll be the Steve Suter film breakdown of the Philadelphia game. And maybe we can get Steve to break down the Brotherhood fight that happened with four minutes and 26 seconds left in the game when Philadelphia went for two. So Tommy told me right before the show, he said, actually, that's a lot of. not true. He texted me yesterday and he said, you may want to read my column before you go on the air and talk about the two-point conversion. I didn't read the two-point column. My response is, you may want to listen to my conversation about the two-point conversion in the fight before you

write your column. Man, that was kind of a chesty text from you. But anyway, I did read your column and you, actually after reading it, I don't know that we disagree wildly on this. but go ahead, give me your thoughts on Siriani, going for two, up 17, four minutes and 26 seconds left, and then the brawl, or the, you know, is fracas equal to a brawl or less than a brawl? I would say less than a brawl.

Freakus is less than a brawl. What about a melee? A melee is actually a brawl, equal to a brawl, maybe even larger than a brawl. I would say a fracas. I would say this was more fracas than brawl or melee. Yeah, I would say that's accurate. Yeah.

All right, so go ahead. Tell everybody what you think. The reason I texted you was because I heard you were going to talk about it, you said. Oh. I was listening to your show. Right. Okay. Well, why would I...

You mentioned that it was going to come up. Yeah, well, you... If you said, if you said, I'm going to talk about this subject, and I wrote about that subject I would think it would be helpful or you might be interested in reading what I wrote. There was no chesty about it.

Well, your text, you could have just sent me the article and said, here are my thoughts on the two-point conversion. That never works. That's true. That is fair. But you texted me and you said, I emailed you my column. You might want to check it out

before you talk about the two-point conversion, as if to say, before you go off on some sort of wrong take, listen to the gospel, according to Leverro. That's... Well, yeah. You should have checked it out because you could have used a little bit of medication talking about this thing. You're a little bit wound up.

I am medicated right now. Did I tell you that I was medicated? I guess I did tell you I was medicated. I am medicated right now. I am taking cough syrup with codeine. Codine, it's great shit. Were you medicated before you talked about that on your show? No.

You were a little bit wound up. No, I was not. I was not. Actually, I was very, very with it. I'm not as with it right now, so that this could turn interesting. Have you ever? I mean, you know that basically codeine is like heroin, right? It's an opiate.

Uh-huh. It's very addictive. But I've had this, like, nagging. So last week, they put. me on an antibiotic thought maybe I had strep. He didn't even test me for strep. He's like, I'm going to put you on this. It's either viral or it's an infection.

And indeed, the antibiotic knocked out the, you know, sore throat, the fever, the whole thing. Because I had that going on last week. But the cough has lasted. And so I texted my doctor who said, yeah, I'm going to send this into the pharmacy. Just don't mix it with alcohol unless you want to, you know, really. get messed up. Um, and I was out last night and I'm going to be out today. So I'm not actually mixing it with alcohol. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, wave off on that one. They don't really mean that. They don't, when they, I don't think so either.

I agree with you. Go ahead. Go ahead. I think I think actually it's the holidays. You know, if you can get away with mixing alcohol with codeine, you can do it during the holidays. Yes. Yeah. I say so. You have my blessing. I'll tell you what though, it works It really works It also kind of It doesn't really hype you up as much as it kind of Makes you drowsy

So that's the thing That's actually feeling great right now You were a little bit hyped up Talking about the two Yeah, I was I was I'll tell you why I was I listened to the whole thing with Ben

Yeah You were a little dialed up Well I mean I love Ben, he's my favorite. And you like Ben a lot too. Like, Ben is really good at what he does. And I love the way he thinks. But the idea that it wasn't sort of conversation worthy to me was absurd. Of course, it's conversation worthy. It's basically half the press conference following the game. And what else are we going to talk about? Yeah, I know you did. I want you're taking a moment, but it's like, as it relates to my conversation with Ben, Ben just essentially thought this was

a nothing burger and it wasn't worth the conversation and I'm like well what what do you want to talk about do you want to talk about Josh Johnson's you know performance or or Drake Jackson who actually played pretty well um in his first action no I thought it was very conversation worthy because I thought it was very interesting uh to kind of contemplate why Siriani would do it but before you know I respond because everybody's heard my take I gave it in my post game show on Sunday. Tell me what you thought of four minutes, 26 seconds to go, Philadelphia up 17, uh, going for two. Okay. I get, uh, there, there's no good reason for Siriani to do that, just except he just wanted to stick it to the, to the commanders. I get that, you know,

but I mean, at that point, so what. So what. You're, you know, you're, you're taking a beating all year, and this is where you decide, this is your line in the sand, this is what's going to fire you up. I mean, I just thought it was a big comical how the post-game conversation this became some sort

of rowing cry for how this team sticks together. You know? I mean, I just thought it was kind of inflated. It was inflated. And it became a big point of conversation. It was to half the press conference.

you're right about that i just found the whole thing a little bit comical considering where this team is right now and and where they're going to wind up at the end of the year that this this and then the coach with way they're going to be here in two weeks we'll see what happened yeah i thought yeah i i commented on that i i didn't necessarily think that that was you know you can't do anything about it in two weeks you don't have a team so you know that would be certainly something that next year. And by the way, from what I've learned, they were incensed. So you're right. You know, they were absolutely pissed off about it and they'll use it next year. But it's going to be pretty hard to use it in two weeks, especially if Philadelphia has something

to play for, unless you're going to go, you know, unless you're going to go outside the rules and try to hurt somebody if they do something like that again. But I don't, I actually, after reading your column, I don't think that I disagree with the whole brother. thing and all the quotes you used like to me that's that's not you know I'm very I'm glad that the team didn't in that moment no matter how bad the season's been no matter whether that was the moment as you say to kind of stand on ground I'm glad that they didn't you know dutifully you know bow down and just take it I think it's much worse in that sport in that profession to, as Jim Zorn would say, Tommy, comply, you know, and be soft and be submissive

to be docile in that moment. I think it's flight or fight, you know, in that moment when, you know, a team, and I also put in this into the conversation, I'm sure you heard it, but I'm not even sure Dopee Siriani knew what he was doing there. Like, it's not a chart play. The chart play is to kick. Just so everybody understands, I emphasize that on Sunday. Most people can do that math on their own. That was another thing with Ben, by the way. Ben thought it was the right thing from the chart. And it was actually the wrong thing by the chart.

And so he thought it would be more disrespectful to kick the extra point. I mean, come on, stop. But the chart move is to kick the extra point. But to me, Siriani, despite the fact that, hey, you know, this guy can lead. He can motivate. He can coach, clearly. they've been in two Super Bowls and won one of them. They're the defending champs.

They are the kings of the division for sure and the kings of the NFC for right now. But where he has struggled is with this kind of stuff over the years. So I take into consideration the possibility that he didn't do it on purpose. But somebody has to be smart enough to say, and this is where I thought

it was most interesting, why this is going, more times than not, this is going to be perceived this way, and it can lead to what it led to. And you've got your best players on the field and you've got a team that's going to the postseason. So why would you do that? You know, especially in a situation where, like,

legitimately you would have needed an act of God for Washington to get back into that game with Josh Johnson, a quarterback. The game was over. So I guess what I'm saying is he may not have meant it or meant to do it intentionally, but it's the only way to receive it if you're the other team. And I'm glad they, you know,

even though they haven't stood up all year, long playing football and truly I do recognize stop them is the right answer there I'm glad that they didn't submit you know didn't comply and just you know take it I don't know I mean I'm not so sure flight wouldn't have been the best choice listen I think if if if if they already if they said the season was going to end tomorrow all those players would flee they wouldn't even show up Sunday. Yeah, but that's different. Nobody's, you know, using a pretty, you know, hyperbolic analogy. Nobody's spitting in their face with two games left. You know, everybody on losing teams can't wait for Turks and Kekos this time of year. But in that moment, I mean,

you can, you know, you can sit there and take it or you can swing back. I think it's much more troubling if you don't swing back in that situation about what it says about your team, not necessarily the brotherhood thing. I agree with you, and I agree with you on Quinn. It's like I wouldn't have said anything about the season finale. I wouldn't have, you know, I wouldn't have said anything. I wouldn't even have indicated that I was even halfway pissed about it. I would have just said it's his choice. You know, they're going to the playoffs. We're not, we're, you know, and now we're eliminated from the NFC East Division tournament. Yes. You saw that last week, right? And the Eagles who basically, you know, they don't like their quarterback, they don't like their

coaches, the fans don't like anybody, they're the defending Super Bowl champs, and they just clicks the NFC East tied on your home field. Yeah. I don't think they have much of a brotherhood. What do you think? Yeah, it's just the best, you know, it's a much better franchise right now. And Washington, my big takeaway is get better and stop them next time. get better and make sure that if they're going for two at the end of the game,

it's because they're losing by, you know, five and are trying to cut it to three. You know, so that's, you know, I think everybody understands that. I still, I think it was stupid for the Eagles to do it because you, there's only, only bad can happen unless you legitimately thought that Washington would tap out. Like you looked out there and you saw, you know, a bunch of guys that, you know, are tapped out and you're just going to drill it to them. But more times than not, you're going to get a response like that, and that puts everybody at some level of risk,

including a player that got tossed. Now, they're not going to get tossed for any more games, but you don't know what could have happened. It's a sad, sad season. Man, it's a, I mean, what a bad season. They, you know. And of all things, a Christmas Day game. God.

Against the Cowboys. Can't they flex this to Boxing Day at noon? It's just brutal. It's so painful. Yeah. You know, the whole Christmas Day lineup, I mean, you've got Josh Johnson, you've got the guy, the third stringer in Kansas City. You've got, you know, Max Brasmer in Minnesota.

I mean, you know, you've got two teams playing for something, Detroit and Denver, but the Washington Dallas game means nothing. Yeah, pretty pathetic. But you know what? People will watch in big numbers. Yeah. Yes, they will because it's football. It is.

I saw everything about the branding study that you guys sent me on Twitter. We'll talk about that next. We'll have our Dallas-Washington Christmas Day picks. And I do want to talk about last night a little bit, Philip Rivers at 44 years old and the Niners. We'll do that and more after these words from a few of our sponsors. Hey guys, how many times do you get your credit card statement and you go through it and you see a monthly subscription fee for something you don't even use anymore?

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Kevin D.C. RocketMoney.com slash Kevin D.C. This segment of the show brought you by Window Nation. Eight days left as we approach the end of the year for their end of year sale, which includes 50% off everything. So you're paying half price on whatever you purchase. And if you choose to finance the purchase, zero percent interest for five years. You won't pay interest until the year 2030. At that point, Washington will be getting ready to go into their new beautiful stadium at RFK. Look forward to that day.

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window nation a shot to come out and give you a free estimate the estimate process takes an hour or less you'll actually find out which windows truly need to be replaced and you can do that you can schedule that free and home estimate at 86690 nation or by going to window nation dot com Tommy, just quickly finishing up on the conversation about the Eagles' decision the other day late in the game. Lee writes, Kevin, you're trying too hard to make the rivalry thing with my Eagles something it isn't. You were correct. Siriani probably didn't even know what he was doing. He's not great at things like score and situations, but he definitely doesn't care about your team.

Dallas is the only team in the division that matters to Eagles fans. We've risen above the Giants and ha ha ha the commanders. What a lame name. You know, I read this because I was thinking about the rivalry when they went for two. I'm like, you know, I need something from this year. And I do want Washington to be back in the mix of big games against their NFC East rivals. Because Tommy, over a long period of time, as much as we would get hyped here, the opposing cities and the opposing fanbases

didn't get hyped for a game against Washington. Philadelphia fans don't give a shit about Washington. Dallas fans don't. Giants fans don't. Dallas and Philly is clearly the rivalry in the division. And Philly Giants is bigger than Philly Washington. And last year was kind of the beginning I was hoping of something new. Like, hey, in addition to being a good team,

you get to participate in these big divisional games, which we just were left out of during the Snyder era too often. And three games against Philadelphia last year, and we had to wait until December 20th to get the first, and obviously our team already

eliminated. So, yeah, I get it, Lee, you know, great. Your team's so great, which it is. It's the team in the division. I'm not knocking it, but in terms of Dallas, they haven't been to an NFC championship game since 1995. They've got the long

streak in the league of not playing in a title game. So, you know, good luck playing three games against that sorry-ass franchise in the near future. The chances of playing us three times in a year, I would say, are a bit higher. But whatever. As far as the lame name goes, it's a good segue into this thing that I wanted to talk about. But did you have any thoughts on just maybe I was, you know, maybe I was reaching to kind of make something out of nothing with your, try to make the rivalry something that it isn't? No, I just think you had one particular thing you were fired up about. I don't think you were looking much beyond that.

Yeah, I mean, not big picture thinking super myopic, you know, laser focused on one thing, can't see beyond that. That's kind of it when it gets emotional. Anyway, so many of you on Twitter, and I saw it right before the radio show, linked me to this brand study on NFL teams. It was, I guess, conducted by a company called Brand Finance. I don't know anything about them other than what their Twitter handle says. Brand finance is the world's leading brand valuation consultancy.

And they did a study on brand equity for NFL teams for heading into 2026, I guess. And basically, it's done based on. on the following criteria. It's a composite ranking based on name, logo, and uniform heritage and tradition, global fan distribution, fan interest, and engagement, positive versus negative brand sentiment, consensus prestige, and recognition, ticket sale, and attendance trends, and television ratings. Aside from primary criteria, name and logo changes, departure from brand heritage, relocation and franchise age impacted brand standing the most.

So in terms of the strongest brands to the weakest brands, Washington was 32nd among 32nd NFL teams. Pittsburgh was 1, 49ers 2, Packers 3, Cowboys 4, Chiefs 5, and then the Eagles came in at 6. Look, I don't know enough about this study. just that so many of you sent this to me. So I understand. And there's a whole follow up to this put together by ranking football who wrote about the study

and essentially said that Washington's is the easiest to fix because they can just move on from their current name and branding because that's the biggest impediment right now. Yeah, I mean, I don't think this is that, you know, crazy. This is what we've talked about for a while. I mean, we talked about it during the off season, that, you know, they weren't sold out before the season started. The TV ratings even early in this season, when there was still a ton of excitement,

locally weren't great. This is the issue. It's been the issue. Two-thirds of the fan base went away. Then the name was lost, and those people aren't coming back. Or a lot of them aren't. You know, some did last year, but not what they thought.

So I don't think this will lead to Redskins. I've said this a million times. It's my belief. I've talked to many people about this, including people very close to the situation. The league won't allow it. Their biggest revenue generating, you know, clients, you know, corporate partners,

from the Anheiser bushes to the Amazon's, they're just not going to go for Washington bringing that old name back and them having to deal with shareholders about it. But I do think, and I've always felt this even going back to last year, that, you know, if the business doesn't recover quickly and, you know, with another winning season, it's possible that they would think to do something else. But it's not easy. There aren't a lot of easy answers. I would go Washington football team, bring back the old logo, bring back the old uniforms. We call them the skins.

But, you know, any other, you know, contests to come up with a new name is going to be polarizing as well. But do I think there's a chance that brand and name change at some point? I've never given up on that possibility. I've just given in to the very likelihood that it won't be Redskins, even though that would be my number one. You say what? You know, well, this came up Saturday, Sunday night. I went to see Soul Cracker Sunday night at Bethes at the theater,

and I basically set the dance floor on fire. I was so hot. Yeah. But I get people come up and want to talk to me about what we talk about on the podcast. And there's one guy who came up to me. He was a big football fan here. He could have asked me about anything. He could have said anything to me about this team.

He said one thing to me. He said, I'll never call them commanders. He'll always be Redskins to me. you know and i i know this is kind of obvious but that really struck me that this may be an insurmountable uh block for it for this team to get over the owners have a huge problem yeah i mean you know i agree with you except for that there's part of the equation that i don't know which is do they care as much, meaning maybe the customer acquisition plan is for people who weren't emotionally attached to the name, a much younger audience that would be more likely

than not, because they have, you know, a longer revenue, revenue generating life expectancy. And that may be part of the strategy. Now, to capitalize on that strategy or to make it work, you've got to, follow-up last year with another exciting year. And this was a big dud. It did not help them. But like we talked about early in the season, I thought it was interesting, not shocking, but interesting that everything wasn't up, you know, exponentially. It was up. They got a bounce, but I don't think they got the bounce that they thought they would get. And now they've got to suffer through this season. And I wonder, Tommy, I've said this a million times. If this season

happened last year, we'd be in the midst of a process to change the name. Not to Redskins, I don't believe, even though that's my number one. So for those of you who keeps saying, stop giving up on that. I haven't given up on that. It's my number one. I just don't think it's very likely. I, you know, I'm trying to stay in the world of, you know, more likely than less likely. More likely would be that they get rid of what Jason Wright and company, you know, put together in 2022, the abomination that we have now. But I, I, uh, yeah, I, I, I think four and eleven, that's the first time I really thought, really?

No matter what they do, no matter what they do, it's, it's not going to be enough for, for a large segment of the fan base. No, if you were attached to that, it's what I always talked about when we had these conversations years ago. Branding people know what emotional detachment risk is. And that, you know, they, the name left, it's not that they decided to change it. They got forced into it. But the bottom line is people, you know, when they get hooked on something, everything matters. And it's emotional. This is why I can't stand to have these conversations with people who don't feel what I felt. I'm not saying that you can't have your opinion.

I just don't really give a shit about it because you can't speak to what the, you know, largesse of the fan base that grew up with this, that lived this, how it's emotionally impacted them. And to try to, you know, blow it off as, you know, man up, you know, and move on. Yeah, well, they're not. They're not at the numbers that everybody thought, you know, a lot of those people thought they would. So, yeah, I don't, I mean, maybe the best thing about the. this year is that at the end of it we get some sort of, we're going to look

into, you know, a major name and brand change. Maybe that would be, that would be wonderful. Great. It's not going to be Redskins, I don't think. I want it to be. I just don't think it will be. I know. I'd be shocked if it was. It's interesting. Well, the president wants it.

Yeah. I mean, there's, there's, you know, part of the hope that many have, and I get that. You know, But, yeah, that's interesting to me that that's the first time. I mean, I get that. Maybe it's because of my feeling about it. But I get that every single time I'm around Redskins fans. Every single time, the name is a major part of the conversation.

Yeah, and they're not going to tire of it. They're not going to give up that fight. Yeah, and most of my friends will not say commanders. They're like, no, they're the Redskins, period. If I thought I was offending somebody by saying it, I wouldn't say it, but we know we're not. You know, so there's that. All right, anything else on this? No, that's it.

All right, let's make our Christmas Day picks for Washington, Dallas. That rivalry, one of the storied rivalries in league history. We'll do that after these words from a few of our sponsors. I'm over the whole New Year, New Me thing. FADs don't deliver long-term results, science does, especially when it comes to skin care. That's why I recommend OneSkin. Their formulas are powered by the OS1 peptide, a patented peptide built on longevity science proven to target aging at the cellular level. It's not about adding extra steps to your skin care routine. It's about swapping in smarter ones. All of OneSkin's

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Please support this show and tell them that I sent you. All right, Tommy. Tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelly's back room at 1331 F Street, Northwest is like a gift. And like a Christmas gift, they will be open on Christmas Day. If you're looking for some place to go have a smoke, you know, maybe you get in some cigars under a tree at Christmas, and you don't have a place to smoke it, head down to

Shelly's backroom in D.C. They're open Christmas Day from 11.30 a.m. to 1 a.m. You'll be able to watch your football games there. The great NFL football Christmas at Shelly's Backroom. And I want to give a shout out to the Collier family. Josh Collier, who is a big fan of the podcast, sent me a message saying he, his father Boyd, and his brother Noah

were going to the Commanders game on Saturday. But first, they were heading to Shelly's for a cigar and a pre-game meal. And this should become a ritual. Yeah. You know, this should be the ritual. If you're coming in the town to go see your visiting team play the commanders or the commanders play, make Shelly's your first stop, okay, on game day. Make Shelly's the place to get warmed up and psyched up for whoever you're rooted for that day.

find out more at shelley's backroom.com. Real quickly, before we get to Washington, Dallas, I know you didn't watch the game last night, but Philip Rivers was... I watched some of it. I watched some of it. All right. Philip... It was amazing. This is amazing.

Yeah, there's something about that position when you have command over it, when you are one of the best to have ever done it, that five years from your last game, you can still come out and do it. But he was incredible last night. He wasn't that bad against Seattle. It was just a different atmosphere.

It was a road game, toughest road environment, best defense, one of the best defenses in the league. Look, they lost last night because they couldn't stop anybody. The 49ers have not punted in a game since November 30th. That's a whole other story about the Niners. But I've been the biggest Philip Rivers fan forever now. Most of you know that who've listened. I think he's a Hall of Famer.

and just to watch him conduct maestro-esque at the line of scrimmage for one scoring drive after another was pretty cool to watch. Real quickly, so Brock Purdy, I saw this stat. Brock Purdy has won 29 games as a starter in his NFL career. Of those 29 wins, 23 of them have been by a double-digit margin. No other NFL quarterback with at least 25 wins has had three quarters of them come by double digits since they were first tracked in 1950. You know, when you think about the NFL, about it being such a close league,

you know, which it is, the idea that 23 of 29 have been by double digits. That's crazy. You know, if you just, if you look at him overall, I mean, he has really been a find. I'm going to close the show, by the way, just with what Trent Williams said about Brock Purdy after the game last night. yes, that Trent Williams, about how when you hear your left tackle and Hall of Famer on your team talk about the quarterback the way he did, you realize that this guy, I mean, he was the last pick in the draft Tommy in 2022. That was 262 out of 262. And he threw five touchdown passes last

night the most since Montana in a game for the 49ers. But it was an entertaining game. Part of that or a lot of that for me was Rivers. As far as the 49ers go, I know what many of you have said to me all year long, what about the Niners when it comes to injuries? Yeah, they are the aberration this year. I mean, they've had a very easy schedule, but last night, man, that was dangerous what you were looking at. That team is clicking right now.

But yeah, to lose two of the best defensive players in the game, in Bosa and Warner, and still be 11 and 4, that is the aberration. I've pointed this out before. when they were Super Bowl, you know, runner-ups in 19 and in 2023, their following seasons were injury riddled just like Washington's, and they went 6 in 10 and 6 and 11 last year with all the injuries. More times than not, like a lot more times than not, it derail seasons. It has not done that for the 49ers this year.

Credit to them, credit to their, you know, coach and the organization, they're very good. They also have just superstar players that are playing, like Christian McCaffrey and George Kettle. Look, here's a big difference between what's going on in San Francisco with their injuries and what happened in Washington. Kyle Shanahan and John Lynch had nine years to build up an organization and create a legitimate culture with legitimate depth at different positions. Right. We had nine drafts to do that. Adam Peters and Dan Quinn have had two. Yeah, not every

Yeah You know, so I mean This is where You know, when the injuries This is where The fourth,

fifth and sixth round draft picks from two years ago Come into play You know Commanders don't even have that 49ers do Okay, they've had time

To build up their organization The big difference Yeah, There's no doubt That's part of it It's part of it. It's part of it it for sure. And, you know, let Adam

cook was a part of it, remember, for several years in San Francisco. Yeah. That Adam Peters, who everybody said, just let him cook. Don't criticize the dude's cooking. Now people want him fired. All right, Dallas, Washington on Christmas

Day. Who do you like? Well, it's going to be just as ugly as you can imagine. I think you can imagine. I think, you know, the Cowboys will put up 34 points just for shits and Giggles. And I think the commanders will manage to get one turnover for a touchdown and eke out three field goals for a 34-16 Dallas win. Dallas is now a seven-point favorite. They have

you know, Dak Prescott and C.D. Lamb and Pickens playing and Washington, you know, has a bunch of guys. By the way, it's interesting, right, caused me to injured reserve. I would imagine we're going to continue to see this. We see this a lot at the end of seasons. And I want the team. team to do this. I talked about it when they shut Jaden down. There's no reason for Tunsel to be playing, for Cosme to be playing. I wouldn't play Terry. With Josh Johnson, I would not play Terry. Let's just run the ball and get out of Dodge. I would not risk your best players for 2026. And we'll see what happens. You know, the fourth string quarterback controversy. Did you follow any of this, Tommy, with Jeff Driscoll being signed and certain groups of fans saying this is,

an indication of why the organization is so incompetent. They could have had Driscoll in the system all year. Instead, they've kept Sam Hartman, who's Jaden's best friend on the team. I mean, that's where we've gotten to, arguing over fourth-string quarterbacks. That's so familiar. Yeah, that's true. So familiar. That's a blast on the past.

Dallas 27, Washington, 6. in a snooze fest I just don't see I loved what they did Saturday I think it was a winnable game had Marcus Mario to stay in it I do but they just

they got nobody that they're going to put out there on Christmas Day all right what else just a Merry Christmas to you and your family buddy and to everybody out there

listening happy holiday such a Merry Christmas Happy Holidays to all of you listening Tommy and I love doing this together and love the reaction that we get from all of you are you doing the Philadelphia thing

yes if they didn't let me watch TV on Thanksgiving they're not going to let me watch any football on Christmas I'm lucky I'm not I'm not an actor in a manger scene you know what's interesting

is that my wife for whatever just recently learned that the Redskins Cowboys game was on Christmas Day and she was not happy about it and I actually have given some thought to okay we don't have to have it on now my boys are going to want to watch it you know two of the three are going to want to watch it maybe I mean they're they're not you know living and dying on the result with Josh Johnson but they might have some action on the game that they'll want to watch it for but yeah I mean like I was actually thinking what if I just said you know what we don't have to watch it live

it's Christmas Day we can turn the TV off we can enjoy each other's company we can do whatever you want to do on Christmas day she likes to watch certain things on Christmas night in particular after the day is over you know I mean I don't know that would be that would be a bellwether moment that would be like Cronkite giving up on the Vietnam War Yeah, that would be the moment where, you know, it'd be all over.

The boys are coming home a few years from now from this battleground, which has not gone well for our team this year. I don't know. I don't need to watch it live. There's no, I don't have any responsibilities in game live. So I could watch it late night, Christmas night, you know. And by the way, that's the best way to watch a football game in particular is being able to fast. forward between the plays and through the commercials, and then be ready for, you know, the shows on Friday.

You could turn this into a plus. You could open a show Friday and say, listen, I didn't watch one minute. Tell me about it. Give me a call. Tell me what I miss. Boy, those would be some interesting calls. You love it when I take calls.

All right. Merry Christmas to you, Tommy, and Liz and the family. Tommy and I won't be back together this week. will reconvene together a week from today on Tuesday, December 30th. But I will be back tomorrow with the show. Steve Souter's got his film breakdown of the Philadelphia game. I'll look at Washington's history on Christmas Eve. It's actually a rich history.

They're not playing on Christmas Eve this year. They're playing on Christmas Day. But tomorrow's Christmas Eve, and they've played a lot on Christmas Eve. And if there are any smell test picks for Christmas Day, I'll have them on tomorrow's show as well. I'm going to leave you with what I mentioned earlier, and that is I want you to hear what Trent Williams, future Hall of Famer, said last night following San Francisco's win over

Indianapolis, about his quarterback, Brock Purdy. Remember, Brock Purdy was the last overall selection. End of the seventh round back in 2022 of the San Francisco 49ers. This was Trent Williams last night on his quarterback. I'll be back tomorrow. You know, when you're in that huddle, you know, there's only one voice speaking, right? And you got 10 grown men staring at you. And, you know, you can't fool grown men, right?

And the confidence that he has in that huddle, no matter what phase of the game, you know, those long play calls, just getting everybody where they need to be. I mean, from A to Z, he does it at a really hot level. And he, I say it all the time. He's a guy saying, man, for us to get him. get him where we got him. And obviously he's getting what he deserved now, but no, you can't even tell he's still the same guy, still the same guy from his rookie year. He's just a baller, man.