The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Heinicke Reality

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Kevin had JP Finlay on the show to wrap up last week's mini-camp and to provide a reality check for those that believe Taylor Heinicke can win the starting quarterback job. At 33:15, David Aldridge joined to talk NBA ratings, games, and to make predictions on what happens the rest of the way. Kevin finished up with Packers' CEO Mark Murphy's latest shot at Aaron Rodgers.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. All right, the show today brought you by MyBooky at mybooky.orgie. Use my bonus code, Kevin D.C. And you'll get your first deposit matched halfway up to $1,000.

Let them know that you got the information for me. Kevin D.C. is the promo. And if you deposit $1,000, they'll give you an extra $500 to play with. plenty of NBA, NHL, Major League Baseball, all of the NFL prop bets, including all of the week one lines are up. If you're big into the Euro soccer,

they've got multiple opportunities to wager on that. They've got an online casino and more. MyBooky at mybooky.orgie.orgie. Use my promo code Kevin D.C., and you'll get your first deposit matched halfway up to $1,000. Two guests on the show today. J.P. Finley is here with me to start the show. and then David Aldridge is going to join us

and we're going to talk some NBA playoffs. And, you know, I actually right before calling you, JP, I quickly went to your Twitter account because I always do that. This is, you know, one of the things all of us do when we have a guest, we'll quickly go to see what they've been talking about on Twitter. And you said,

Barclay's talking about what matters to players and then Kenny casually drops a Dean Smith note, best sports show ever, is. It's the best studio show of certainly like the last quarter century. What did Kenny Smith say about Dean Smith? It was just a really cool conversation where Barclay was kind of talking about how the sons have transformed so much. And then Kenny just dropped this thing in where Dean never wanted his guys to be in a box. He wanted everybody to have a role, but like they could be kind of like that his players can kind of be whatever they wanted to be and if they wanted

to talk to him about ideas or whatever he was always open to it and it's just it's just crazy to think that he's talking about Dean Smith like you know arguably one of the top coaches of all time it was just cool moment yeah I you know um I love that about it's funny this is we're going to get to Washington football talk here in a moment but the difference between lebron james and Michael Jordan. I've had this conversation many times before, whether it was with Tommy or Cooley or a guest or whatever. You understand that Michael Jordan's experience, which included three years of college at the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill, is majorly impactful on his life. You know, he's a Carolina man. He's part of that Carolina family. He's got that Carolina, you know, bond with so many people. And I think guys like LeBron James,

who never went to college really missed out on a big part of life. And I'm not saying that he hasn't had other experiences, but the one thing that that documentary about Michael that we all watched early on in the pandemic, like he's a Carolina guy through and through, you know, and I don't know if it takes more than one year to become part of that family. I don't know if the Duke guys would only go for one year feel that connection to Duke coaching Coach K and the fan base, but I really think the guys that didn't have that missed out on something.

Totally. And I mean, some of it's just like that maturation process of your life. Of course. I mean, I think to like my time in college, I don't know how much I remember from classes, but I grew up and learned to be an adult. Whereas, you know, LeBron, the LeBron was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he was 15 or something, right? Like that guy's life was just incredibly different, but I would, they definitely missed out on something, but had a million other opportunities, I guess. Yeah, but there's something missing,

I think, in his overall, look, I mean, I didn't mean to get into this conversation, but a good friend of mine is this guy, Darren McClinton. Darren's father, Harold McClinton, was the middle linebacker of the Redskins in the 70s, died tragically at too young of an age. but Darren and his brother Kevin were good, great high school players at Springbrook and really good college basketball players. Kevin played at Maryland and Darren, I think, is still one of the top two or three all-time scorers at James Madison. But, you know, I've gotten to know Darren over the years and he played in like 13 different countries, you know, in a long international career. And I've had conversations with him and others like him. I actually think beyond just what Michael Jordan had with the Carolina Bond, the guys that

ended up playing overseas, they had an exposure and a life exposure that not even the guys that were NBAers from day one and never left the NBA had. I think it's interesting. And you can tell in some of the conversations that I've had with him, you know, over the years, that all of those experiences, you know, made him. like a different person in a really good sort of overall, you know, well-rounded way. But anyway, getting sidetracked here. Real quickly, have you enjoyed the NBA playoffs?

Because I love them. Yeah, it's been fun to watch. I find myself rooting for the suns and the bucks. I don't really know why, but I have. Yeah, I'm definitely rooting for the clippers. Like, I definitely feel like I have a horse in the race. because Kauai Leonard's I think is my favorite player in all of team sports, and I would love to see him do what he did two years ago when we had a real postseason,

and that is sort of strap a team to his back. I think this tonight's game is crucial, but I've enjoyed it. I thought the intensity of these games have been great. That Raptors run was awesome. I love that Raptors run. The Raptors run was awesome. I have a minor investment on the Bucks to win at all, so I'd be pretty happy if that happened, but it's $20. Well, I think it can happen now.

I think, and I talked about this on the radio show this morning, the one thing about the game yesterday when Kyrie Irving went out, of all the superstars, just call it like the top five to ten players, which of course Durant is a top three player, most would agree. The thing that Durant lacks is the ability to be a facilitator. LeBron is a facilitator. Even Harden when he wants to be as an ISO player can facilitate. Steph, the big guys like Yokic and even Embed. You saw Durant really struggle when he's got to be

everything for a team. He is much better as sort of the recipient of a facilitator. And I think that if Kyrie doesn't come back or Hardin doesn't come back, this series is over. I don't think that, I don't think Durant can do it by himself or as a guy that has to make others. much better. I think we saw that as a... Yeah, I mean, you're kind of right. Like, not to call him one-dimensional, because he's so elite at scoring, but he's not a facilitator. Dude, did you ever think Joe Harris would be that good?

I knew he was... I knew he had a chance with his size to be a really, like, if he got in the right situation to be a really good shooter. That's what I always thought, because he's sick, you know, he's every bit of six-six, and had the quick release at UVA. But no, I mean, and they need him desperately now. I mean, especially now, yeah. Especially now. All right, let's talk in minicamp.

You know, I think there were a lot of conversations that came out of last week. Personally, I don't know how much we learn. You're closer to the conversations with some of the people in the organization. Before we get to the whole quarterback thing, did they learn anything? Did the coaching staff learn anything about their team? players? Did anybody stand out? Did you hear name come up over and over again off the three days of minicamp plus the whatever number of days of OTAs they had? I think one thing they've learned that they're happy about is the speed difference. They've really worked overall team speed

and you can see it. Wide out, they're faster, linebacker they're faster, light out, they're just better. And some of that is how bad they were before. When they broke a lot, they broke camp last year. I've said this a million times because it's astounding. Four of their six wide receivers were undrafted. You cannot have that concentration of undrafted players at a skill position and expect to compete. It's just remarkable. So, I mean, they completely overhauled the receiver position, which was a need, and they've done, I think, a good job of it. We didn't even see Curtis Samuel. I think there's, I think it's the best. since Gibbs 2006 era.

And I think there's serious depth question. I like, if Chase Young or Montez-Swett miss a game, you're talking about Chocotony and Casey Two Hill. I don't know, man. There are a real depth question, and I think you need Benjamin Singh juice to be good, and it looks like he could be. He has good size and speed,

And I think if he's able to play, if he's able to be an outside corner, they can put Kendall Fuller back in the slot. I think they have a lot of flexibility with their secondary. I also think for all the Lannin Collins consternation, there's an easy path there for the organization. I think he starts on the public, and that kind of eliminates a lot of a roster battle decision. He tore his Achilles basically on the first.

Halloween last year. And people are worried about him playing linebacker in August. That's a year injury, always. So those are some thoughts on top of my head. It's interesting that you went to the D-Line to start with, the strength of this football team, and you talked about the depth. So are they concerned about, you know, if young or sweat go down? You know, James Smith-Williams, the seventh rounder out of NC State last year,

They obviously liked them a little bit. They not only kept him, but they played him snaps in games down the stretch. Is there anybody? I'm sorry? I think James said Williams will play more this year. I'm not saying even if they go down, but like the number three D.N. is going to play 15% of the snaps in a game, maybe 20. So like they need a rotational third guy, at least, if not four.

and it's just remarkable when you let Kerrigan go and even Ryan Anderson I mean he's at least a veteran you're going to have James 5th Williams and then the the Baylor guy, the Baylor late round pick this year William Bradley King Shaka Tony from Penn State

Yeah you're going to see these guys on the field and there is an injury you've got big questions but I mean those are probably the two best players on the team So if there's an injury to those guys, you got big trouble anyway. That's funny because I had this conversation with a friend of mine, and he said, who's the second best player on the team after Chase Young? And I said it's Montez Sweat.

I think you can make the case. I think it's sweat or pain over McLaren. I think the two of them actually, well, let me rephrase. I think the two of them have a higher upside. I think the two of them could end up at one point in their career being considered the top five at their position. I don't know if Terry McLorne will end up being considered the top five at his position. So maybe it's upside I'm talking about. Yeah, like if you think about as an all-pro, where only, you know, the absolute best in the NFL get named, I don't think Terry McClorin

will ever be an all-pro. I think Payne could. Right. And maybe Sweat could too. I, I, yeah, that's a good argument. But I also, the flip side with Terry, is, I mean, he had 11 under yards last year with some of the worst quarterback play in the NFL. I wonder, I don't know that Fitz is the guy, but I think he'll be better than what they had last year. I mean, I wonder if you put McLaren on the, on the boxer or just somewhat, you put McClorin on the Cowboys with Dak, like a good, but maybe not elite quarterback. And I wonder what his numbers look like. Yeah, and, you know, theoretically right now on paper, you're going to have a quarterback that's going to chuck it down the field

and take more chance and give receivers more opportunities. By the way, back to Landing Collins for a moment. You said you wouldn't be surprised if he starts the season on the Puff list. Would you be surprised if he weren't on the roster? That's kind of their way around it. He doesn't occupy a roster spot if you go Puck and then I are. and then you're able to have all your young safety. Think about the...

So, girls obviously on the roster, they just signed Bobby McCain, who looked good in minicamp, the Shazer Everett, Derek Forrest, who they just drafted, Jeremy Reeves, who Ron talked a lot about how much he liked him late last season.

And that's five dudes at safety before you even get to college. And as far as... I don't... I mean, the cap situation is just so problematic to release him, I think the pup to IR is a kind of easy workaround for them. Yeah, I mean, I think the landing Collins contract in terms of dead money was just going to be a couple million, right? Wasn't that it or not?

No, so if they did it before June 1, it would have been like 16. Yeah, but now I think, now you're able to split it up over this year and next, so it drops. but it's still a big hit to take. I mean, I look at Landis Collins as the last of the dot pick. Right, but I guess what I was saying, like it was $16 million versus the base salary, which was 12 or whatever, so over two years, whatever. Back to John Allen for a moment,

or back to the defensive end situation. If they got into a bind, do you think John Allen is the guy they view as an inside guy with flexibility? Really good question. I, I mean, his body, like, if you look at Chase and Montez, and those guys are freak athletes, right? But even look at Kerrigan, the build of John Allen is very, very different. And Kerrigan wasn't necessarily a speed guy, he was kind of a bull rush get inside leverage guy. I mean, if they're in a bind and somebody has to, of the ionitis, settle pain, Allen, I guess it would be Allen, but I can't imagine.

that's what anybody wants to happen. Right. All right. J.P. Finley joining us. Listen to his Redskins Talk podcast, or Washington Football Team podcast, wherever you get a podcast with his guys. He's also, of course, now on WJFK,

1067, The Fan, hosting 10 to 2 with Brian Mitchell. He's actually on his way into work, and he's kind enough to spend, a few minutes here. All right, let's just talk about the quarterback stuff from last week. You know, Rivera sort of intimating a competition. I'll start with that. Do you believe him or not? No, it fits his job. He'd have to, he'd have to perform incredibly bad to not be the week one starter, in my opinion. Look at the money. Look at, I mean, I was there at minicamp, right? Like, I saw, I mean, I think he got zero, zero snaps with the first team, not one.

So until that starts changing, until Heineke's out there with the first team and you actually see fits with the second team, then maybe there's an actual competition, but I don't expect any of that. Well, I agree with you completely. I think actually a more interesting conversation is if Kyle Allen's just totally good to go, when training camp starts and can take every single snap and every single rep that he's available to take. I think the bigger issue for Heineke is can he win the number two job? What do you think?

That's an interesting point. I don't see it that way. I think I think He is the number two guy. I think with Kyle, I'll look at the money and when they signed. I mean, they made a point to get Heineke done and then they got Kyle done after that. Some of that is, I think they were both RFAs anyway,

so it's not like they were going to lose them. I think Hinege has a little more guaranteed money than Kyle does, but it's all, I mean, it's very relative compared to what, you know, a big contract or anything. But I'll say this. I've watched Kyle Allen last year in camp, and he's not the best practice quarterback, because he's looking to make plays and run around and get downfield.

And that translates more in game. But Heineke's kind of the same guy that he runs around and is a little bit reckless with his body. But Heineke's look good in practice. I think Heineke's understanding of Scott Turner's offense is on like an innate, in-depth level that even though Kyle Allen's been in the system a long time, I just think Heineke runs that offense, the best. of any of these quarterbacks we've seen.

And it's like intuitive to him, and the ball's coming out faster. And he doesn't have the – I mean, his arm is certainly the weakest of those three, but the ball is just where it needs to be all the time. Honestly, you and I have made some QB bets in the offseason. I want odds that all three of them start this year. That's what I want. I'd have to think about that. mean, you know, for me, their actions in the off-season spoke volumes. You know, they went out

with the purpose of trying to find a starting quarterback for 2021 and maybe even 2022, in the case of Stafford even beyond that. You know, if you think about, if you start adding up all the quarterbacks that we know they were interested in and even made offers on, and then the ones that there were, you know, stories about, we could come up with a half-dozen quarterbacks. which just tells me that, you know, what they had, they just were not confident in, whether it was because they didn't think that Heineke could remain upright or Kyle Allen would be ready or that neither one of them is just good enough overall to be the lead guy. Neither one of them is terrible as a backup in a pinch, and Heineke proved that last year.

But I think that really, you know, any one of those odds, you know, if you're just putting odds out there. You can't do it with, you know, obviously the injury being some sort of, you know, voiding of a bet because I think if it's Patrick's healthy, I think there's a pretty good chance he starts 16 games unless the season completely gets away from them. And then, you know, towards the end of the year, they start starting, you know, they let Heineke get a couple of starts or Allen get a couple of starts. I think three quarterbacks is a long shot this year. I mean, I, and just thinking about it. it. Every bit of, on three quarterbacks starting a game, what would you, what do you think the

odds would be? Quite long, honestly. What's quite long? 25 to 1, something like that? I don't think they're that long. 15. Yeah, I mean, if injuries are a part of the, the calculus here, it's probably like, it's like 8 to 1. That, you know, there's like a one. Your 5 point. You've got to include injuries as part of the calculus. I mean, for all the Heineckee excitement over the last week, 10 days in this town, he got hurt in a walkthrough. He had to get stitches and he chipped his tooth during a walkthrough.

Not everybody's excited, by the way. I think that's the way we're reading it. But I think there are a lot of people that are excited, but I wouldn't put it at the majority. I don't even mean excitement over his play, just the topic of the conversation. Yes, agreed. Fair. But like the injury. stuff with him is absolutely very real.

So, but here's all I'm saying, I was thinking about this this morning, they've averaged three quarterbacks a season, starting quarterbacks a season for the last three years. Yeah. And a lot of that is just incredible, fluky, bad luck, and bad roster management and bad draft picks. Like, there's a confluence of events that have led them to that, but it still has happened. And so I think they would absolutely love. That's why it's not 25 to 1.

That's why it's like, especially with the injury history of both Allen and Heineke, if either one did get in there, let's just say because they were, you know, they were four and nine going into their final four games. The odds are they'd be healthy and you'd get, they'd get injured and you'd get the third quarterback. So I think it's like a 6, 7, 8 to 1 kind of a thing. By the way, J.P., serious question here. JP won a significant bet for me last year, which was that Alex Smith would start.

I wasn't trying to bring that up. Well, I'm bringing it up. I gave you all the credit in the world, and it's still, by the way, a bet that has not been paid, but it's been largely because of, you know, pandemic and restaurant capacity, etc. But we're going to, you know we were going to settle on that. I'm not there. Zero concern. But if Kyle Allen had not got got.

and hurt after he replaced Duane Haskins? What are the chances that Alex Smith would have ever seen the field? None. Because you didn't think so in the moment. You thought Kyle Allen was

a bridge. I think it was you. Yeah, I think it was you. It could have been somebody else. If I'm mistaken, let me know. But when they finally went away from Dwayne, I remember you and I talking, I don't know if it was on the air or off.

And you said, you think it's a bridge to Alex. And I said, I don't think it is. I think they really, Scott in particular, really likes Kyle Allen. And if he... Well, I may have even written that in hindsight last year. But here's why I say no now is like what we kind of know now. Is what Ron said. Yeah, like kind of what Ron said on the record and kind of some of the stuff that's emerging.

urging about the divorce and how Alex felt here. Like, I don't know how great everything was going between Alex and Ron, right? I think we kind of know that now, too. But at the time, we didn't know that. So, I don't know. I mean, so, like, if Kyle was terrible, would they have gone to Alex? I think he would have had to because they were in the race for the division. But I don't think Kyle was markedly better or worse than Alex was.

He just got hurt. Because I think our bet was Alex can play, but if it's got to be more than a ceremonial snap. Yeah, it was. And it was start. I think we specified start a game and play the whole game. Right, exactly. All right, what else you got? I know you got to get in and get your show going.

Anything remarkable about last week, anything that you've been talking about on your show that we haven't talked about right here? I like Cosby. Yeah, me too. He's got kind of like a sheriff attitude about him, just kind of nasty, and you want that in your old linemen. And for all the consternation about the Morgan Moses release, it, listen, it undoubtedly hurts their depth. You cannot argue that. The football team wouldn't argue that. But the market also kind of talks.

He's still available. Do you know what I mean? Which I find kind of interesting. It's so funny because I was going to say to you, there's one thing I think they're not concerned about, and that is losing Morgan Moses. I think they're really excited about their offensive line and their options there.

When Ron, Ron wants his young guys to play, and he wants to build a young nuclear on this team. Right. It is crazy, Kevin, how much they have flipped that roster. I mean, the hell, the whole building. I imagine someday I will walk into Redskine Park again, and I'm not going to know a soul in there.

It's crazy for, you know, I mean, it is a new day in Ashburn. Well, look, in many ways, not to even remotely give, you know, Bruce Allen or Jay Gruden or anybody. that was there before credit for this, but they realized, especially on defense after 2016, 2017, just how old and slow they were. Jay told me that on this podcast. He said, we were so bad on defense, we were so old and slow that the whole focus over the next few years was going to be about getting better and faster and younger on defense. And that's why it went in order, Alan Payne, in the draft.

you know, and then sweat, by the way, which all the football people wanted. And so Dan threw him a, you know, threw him a bone and traded back up into the first round so they could get sweat. Dude, you'll love this. I was thinking about this. If Alex doesn't get hurt or they don't force the half can pick at 15. And so the two guys they liked were Brian Burns who went, I think, 16 to the Panthers. And sweat, they obviously like. Well, they like the Maryland safety, too, that ended up in Green Bay.

Okay. You can have your pick there, right? What's his name? I'm blanking on his name, too. It's Savage, Dorenell Savage. Darnel Savage. Yeah, Darnel Savage. Yeah.

So, say they take one of those guys there, right? Maybe Alex ever got hurt. Maybe Ron, they hire Ron a year earlier, and he gets to start things, whatever it is. They take one of those guys there. The next year they still are awful, and they land with the number two pick. I think you got a figure two would be in D.C. at that point. Yeah, and, you know, it's a question that I've done on radio. Because nobody was taking Herbert.

I know. I understand that. But if right now you could redraft 2020, I take Herbert and I don't take Chase Young. Sure, yeah, but, yeah, I mean, But no, no, no, no. In the moment, you're right, it would have been Tua. It would have been Tua. No doubt. I think if you can redraft that draft, it goes Burrow, Herbert, Chase, and then Tua. Definitely. No doubt. It's pretty remarkable.

I mean, actually, I think some people at this point would say the corner from Ohio State that went to the Lions, Okuda. I think some people would take him before Tua. I mean, there's real questions to Tua, which is... pretty remarkable because we signed the guy that they benched to play to him. Exactly. Well, but, but, you know, I had Bobby McCain on the show. I asked him about that, and he said it was a major surprise in the locker room. Nobody wanted, that was an organizational decision.

It was not because Ryan Fitzpatrick wasn't playing well. They were three and three, and he was having a really good season. And I think that's a playoff team, if he's. start 16 games. Yeah, I agree. I'm fascinated to see Fitzpatrick. I really am. I am, too.

I think he's going to be quite good, but we had Ike Reese on the radio show the other day, said, I mean, you got to remember, I agree he played for the Eagles when Ron was their linebackers coach. Like, he knows

Ron well, and he said, he's like, you got the best coach in that division, you got the best defense in that division. Washington should win that division, you just got to have realistic expectations with Ryan Fitzpatrick. And I think I always call it Aspern syndrome. I think there's a little, perhaps too much excitement about what fits could be, and I do think we should kind of dial in our expectations. But I crunch the numbers.

His last three seasons is when he has said, and Scott Turner has said that they really think he kind of figured it out, he's got a one and a half to one touchdown to I&T ratio. So if he can maintain that this fall, I think he starts 17 names, and I think they're in playoff. Yeah, I mean, in many ways, that's the number one question. By far, it usually is, unless you've got one of the elite guys. I still, I have a lot of optimism about the defense taking the next step, but I also am not blind and naive enough to think that what I saw in that playoff game didn't happen, and that somehow it was an aberration.

They got run on last year. They've got to improve their next line. The linebackers have to be improved. They've got to become a better run-stopping defense or they'll be a good defense, but not the elite defense that we think it needs to be to really make hay against that schedule and against the teams, you know, in the NFC

that are clearly a cut or two above on paper going into the year. Big difference beating Ben to Nucci. and Patrick Mahal. Seven of the wins. Five of the seven wins came against backup or even third string quarterbacks last year. I got a run because you got a run. So go do your radio show. Listen to

JP and Brian Mitchell every day 10 to 2 on 1067 the fan. That's our sister station now. We're both owned by Entercom and JP's podcast. Of course, anywhere you get a podcast. Follow them on Twitter at J.P. Finley NBCS. I'll talk to you later. Thanks, Jeff. See you, buddy.

Up next, David Aldridge, right after these words from a few of our sponsors. David Aldridge joins us right now. David is a big part of the athletic. I'm a subscriber. I always talk about it when we have been on or somebody else from the athletic

tarc, etc. I urge everybody to subscribe to the athletic. It's totally worth it. Not just for the local people who cover all of the local teams, but the national writers are exceptional as well. It's a very good value proposition. So,

I encourage everybody to do that. It's been a while since we talked. In fact, I was remembering the last time I had you on was basically a year ago, you know, after Wes Unseld passed away. And his name came up recently. In fact, I want to say that I saw some sort of statistic this morning that said Chris Paul's age. Oh, no, no, no. It was Yokic. Yokic getting eliminated in four games. as an NBA MVP's only happened like five times Magic and Kareem, both remember got swept by the Sixers, the Moses Sixers. But that Wes Sunseld, who by the way, correct me if I'm wrong, was the MVP is rookie year, right? In Baltimore? MVP and rookie year. In the same year.

And they were swept out of the playoffs, I think, by the bucks in the NBA finals, if my memory serves. Well, that would have been 71 when he got swept by the bucks. but I'm sure they got stuff. It may have been the Knicks. It could have been the Nix. Okay. Yeah.

So David, as everybody knows, a long time, you know, reporter and sideline on television for TNT, et cetera, wrote a story that I read yesterday about no LeBron James, no Splash Brothers, is in no Steph Curry, no Clay Thompson, no Warriors. So many say they want new playoff blood, but will you watch?

I think it's a really interesting conversation because a lot of my friends who are basketball fans are not into these NBA playoffs. And David, I've tried to make the case that they're really missing something. The intensity, I thought it was good in the bubble last year personally. But I think the intensity of these games and some of the performances, the individual performances, you know, whether it was Lillard's 55 or Kauai's 45 in game 6, we've seen some incredible individual performances. I'm enjoying these playoffs. What is your take, and do you think people are watching? Well, I mean, it's a big question, Kevin.

You know, the macro is that the ratings for the first round were up a little bit over, well, certainly over last year, but, you know, last year you can't really judge last year. They didn't start the playoffs until September. You know, like they were going up against the NFL, which is, just, you know, death. You just can't do that. Your ratings are going to suffer. They were playing playoff games at 10 in the morning, Pacific time. People weren't watching. You know, there's a middle, you were in the middle of a global pandemic and a very consensus presidential election. If people were watching television, they were not watching sports. They were watching something

else as evidenced by all the ratings for every event last fall being historically low. you know, whether it was baseball or tennis or golf or Indy 500, whatever was. But the ratings for the first round this year were up a little bit over 2019, which is the last year you can really kind of make a seed. And that's not even an apple to the apples, but it's close. Now, the ratings for the second round will probably be lower. And the reason is that, you know, you don't have some of the more compelling matchups that you had hoped.

I mean, everybody was hoping for a long series between Phoenix and Denver, and Phoenix took care of business. They throttled them. You know, the Buck series started off badly for the Bucks, but they won the last two games, and now Kyrie's heard along with Hardin, so we don't know how that's going to go.

But the prediction by most folks is that the second round ratings will be lower. My big point with this, Kevin, is that for years, if you cover the NBA, there's just a segment of Twitter, and I think it's a lot of bots and performance artists, but there's a segment of Twitter that always says how much they hate LeBron James, and they're sick of LeBron James,

and why the NBA is always cowtowing to LeBron James, and they don't like him because he wins, they don't like him because he's in the ally with the Lakers, and they're sick of LeBron James, and they think we all kiss the Warriors' ass, and we just get, we never say anything critical about the Warriors. And so my point was, okay, you guys say you want variety, you want different teams in the playoffs, you got it. This is the year of different teams in the playoffs.

There were eight teams left in the postseason, none of whom it won an NBA title since 1983. So if you want different, you got it. Now, are you going to watch it, is my question. Are you going to watch potential Milwaukee, Utah NBA final? will you watch it a team whose best player is Janice Adempupo who's from Greece

and of Nigerian descent against the Utah team whose best player is Donovan Mitchell who is not a household name and who's which has a bunch of international players on it. Are you going to watch that? Because if you don't watch it, it speaks

to a certain hypocrisy on the part of NBA fans. And so that was my question that I wanted to ask in that story. By the way, I loved the links you provided in your story to some of the CBS opens to NFL games and then, you know, Lakers Celtics game 6 and 85, which the Lakers won to win the title after they had lost in 84. I play a lot of that stuff on my radio show all the time because just to hear Summerall's voice, you know, in the intro. And you sort of were making the point that the NFL does not need, you know, L.A. Boston or L.A., you know, Brooklyn, maybe.

this year with LeBron and the finals. The NFL's never needed that. But the NBA's always been a sport built on individual stars. You know, David Stern started that process, which really increased the popularity of the NBA. They were, you know, they had two big ones and then a third that came along in Magic Bird and then Michael. And it was a different time, too, right? Without, you know, phones and, you know, so much programming available on different. demand, et cetera. But I wonder how they, to answer your question, I don't think the ratings are going to be great. Like even if it's an L.A. Brooklyn thing and you get the top two markets in the country with, by the way, recognizable stars in Kauai Leonard and Kevin Durant, you know, for starters,

I still think that there's just been a slow bleed to these NBA ratings in the popularity of the sport over a long period of time now. So what is the solution? Well, a few things. Number one, David Stern didn't start Star Marketing. That started with Wilton and Bill Russell back in his 60s. So he just

had, he just happened to have some great starts to market in Magic and Bird and Michael, but the league NBA has always been about it. Going back to George Makin, the first star. I mean, that's what they literally promoted George Mikein versus the Knicks. in a, you know, in a very famous billboard, or, you know, on the facade of Madison Square Garden.

It said George Miken versus the Knicks. It didn't say Minneapolis Lakers versus the Knicks. Yeah, but don't you think the Celtics were a brand more than any team? I don't know. But it was still marketed as Russell and Chamberlain. Okay. Go back and look at how the league was covered it. Well, you're much older than I am.

I am. I'm very old. So that's how it was, it's always been that way in the NBA. So, yeah, you know, if it is Brooklyn and the Lakers, I think, or Brooklyn and the Clippers, I should say, yeah, I'm not sure the ratings will be gigantic. I think they'll be good just because it is New York and L.A. But to your point, I mean, the NBA has always, you know, had this kind of dual, duality to it. On the one hand, it wants to be about, you know, competition and the greatest athletes in the world doing what they do, but the league's never been especially competitive.

Right. There's only a handful of teams that have ever won NBA championships. There's not that many, really, you know. And if you get down to it, you know, there's been about 10 teams that have won. I'd forget what the exact number is I have to go back and look, but it's like 10 teams of won, like 80% of all the championships from the history of the leagues, right? So the NBA has always had that problem, and they try to do things that they say will increase competition, and they never actually increase competition. It's just that's kind of how it's built because one great player has an outsized impact

because there's only five players on a quarter of the time. You know, it's not nine like baseball, it's not 11 like football, it's five. And so if you have a superstar, then that superstar tends to help win more games than in any other sport. And that's just kind of how basketball is as a sport. There's not a lot that you can do about that, I don't think. So, yeah, it's a problem for the NBA, I think. I shouldn't say a problem. It's a reality of the NBA, right?

That, you know, you're not going to have Utah's in Milwaukee. these breakthrough unless some odd things happen like it happened this year, you know, with regards to the playoffs and teams that you thought were going to be there like the Lakers going out early. Yeah, I mean, I've mentioned many times before that since 2004, there's not one NBA champion that didn't have an obvious top five superstar on their team. I mean, the Pistons of 04 was probably the last team where you could debate didn't have, an obvious top five superstar. You have to have that to win. Actually, that'll lead into a conversation

about the team that we watched last night here in a moment. But I want to get back to LeBron for a second, because you mentioned all of the reasons that people say they don't want to watch LeBron. And what you didn't add is LeBron's social media presence, his politics, and the impact that perhaps that had in a negative way. Do you think it did? Oh, I suppose it could, but again, I always think in that vein, those people aren't watching the NBA anyway, Kevin. You know, the people that complain about LeBron's politics, they're not watching the NBA.

That's not a sport they would watch anyway, you know, because LeBron's hardly the only player to speak out on political issues in the last year. I mean, you know, the Warriors famously said, well, we're not going to meet with Trump. We're not. We're not going. We're not going, and then he disinvited them, but they had already said they weren't coming. You know what I mean? You can't get disinvited from something you're not coming to, right?

So they, you know, so the people that rail about LeBron and they bring up China is that they give a damn about the Uyghurs in China, never heard about the Uyghurs in China. It's just a convenient foil to bash LeBron or to bash Steve Kerr, to bash anybody else whose politics they disagree with. So I don't think that is a large cross-section of people who actually are NBA fans. I think those are political people who want to take shots of people that are big targets, for the most part. I think there is more, to me, I think LeBron, you know, anger's real NBA fans who view him as one of the main catalyst for this player empowerment era, where players decide, you know, two or three players decide they're going to play together, and they manipulate the systems so that they can play together for whatever team they want to play for. And that kind of rubs some fans, I think, the wrong way, because they feel like their team has no chance of winning.

You know, like when Golden State got together, when Durant decided to play with Golden State, there were a lot of people who were legitimate NBA fans that were like, what's the point of playing? Nobody's going to beat this team. They got like four superstars on it. You know what I mean? So there's people who don't like LeBron's because of that, but I think the main reason people don't like bronze because he wins a lot.

You know, he wins. His team tend to make the finals. He was in nine straight finals until this year. So his teams tend to be there, and they tend to win a lot, and people don't like that. Yeah, I think it's more, but I don't, I agree with you. And this is something that I said a few weeks ago. I'm like, really?

So his policy. are turning people off. Let's see what the NBA finals ratings look like without him in it, because ultimately he draws a lot of eyeballs, even if you view him to be polarizing, which might be an exaggeration. But I do think with LeBron, unlike Michael and even Kobe, there is this sense of theatrics. There's this sense of, you know, needing what you described, you know, the super team to win. There's no doubt that's a big part of it. I think the flop I think the writhing around on the floor drives people basketball fans, you know, people who are paying attention to this sport, you know, nuts after a while.

I think I think there's a lot there to him, you know, that either you, I think that there is sort of a polarizing aspect to him. So let's talk about the games in these series because I've actually enjoyed them. I think the intensity. I think the NBA, like the NHL, is completely different in the postseason than it is the regular season. Let's start with last night. Do you think Yokic should have been tossed with a flagrant too for what he did? You know, by the strict interpretation of the rule, yeah. But, you know, I have seen and you have seen, and then people have seen over the years,

you know, referees don't always strictly interpret the rule, right? I mean, you know, like so if you're going to call that, okay, fine. I mean, yeah, he swung. He may connect. He made contact. He followed through by the strict definition of what a flagrant two is. That was a flagrant two. But we see a lot of stuff that is supposed to be called that doesn't get called to the letter of the law, right? And I think that inconsistency is what drives people crazy. So, yeah, he should have been dejected, but, you know, then people should be called for grabbing and holding and for all the other fouls that we see that don't get called. And I think that's where people are frustrated. Now, look, I don't think it would have made any difference. Phoenix won that series. You know, they didn't win, if they hadn't won tomorrow. You know, last night, they would have won tomorrow.

I mean, that series was over. So that did not materially affect that series at all. It may have affected that game. And I still am not sure Phoenix wouldn't have won the game, even if Yolk it still played. But, you know, it was kind of an iffy call to me. Yeah, I hated it. I thought the intent was to swipe the ball.

got a little bit of the nose, a little bit of maybe the shoulder. The player wasn't hurt. To me, that was a flagrant one. And maybe by definition, they could have stretched it to a flagrant too, but given the circumstances, and not just because he's the MVP, but because we're in the postseason. I'll tell you what, the game earlier in the day, the Milwaukee Brooklyn game, was as physical a game as we've seen in the postseason. I mean, there were bodies all over the floor.

There was blood everywhere. I did not think Milwaukee, David, had a chance after the first two, and I'm clearly aware of what happens when venues change in a seven-game series. I just didn't think, I thought Janus looked completely uncomfortable against a set defense, and they weren't going to play enough transition. But here we are, no Hardin, which we didn't have anyway, and now maybe no Kyrie. And I thought something was revealed about Durant in this game that I never considered before, and I'm curious. as to what you think. I thought Durant, when Kyrie Irving left the game yesterday, had to become what LeBron is great at doing, what Steph is great at doing, with some of the big men, like Yokic and even Embed to a certain degree are great at doing, and that is facilitating

and making everybody else better. I think Durant is not comfortable in that role, and I thought it really hurt them. I mean, they didn't have other guys that stepped up, but I didn't think he gave him a chance to step up. And I think this series is over if Hardin and Kyrie don't come back. If one of the two don't come back, what do you think? Well, I don't think it's over if Kyrie doesn't play. I mean, look, Kevin Durant's capable of getting 50. You know what I mean? He's that good. And so if you've got a guy on your team that you can score 50, you have a chance to win the game. I don't care who else is on the floor with him. And there two of the last three games are going to be in Brooklyn. So I don't think the series is over. I certainly

I think Milwaukee's got a great shot at it now. You know, that was not, you know, a comeback in 48-hour ankle. Now, he may play on it. He may try, but he's not going to be anywhere close to himself, Kyrie. I mean, even if he does play in game five or game six, I mean, that was a bad turn of the ankle. That's a couple of weeks kind of thing that under normal circumstances. So, you know, he's not going to be anywhere close to himself in terms of his quickness

and his ability to get to the rim. Now, can he be a decoy? Yeah, I suppose. But still, he's not going to be nearly as effective. But you're right about the right in one sense. I mean, Kevin is not, that's not his natural thing to facilitate. Kevin's a score. Put the ball in the basket.

He doesn't have better than anybody in the league. You know, so, you know, I'm not going to try to ask him to do stuff that he's not great at doing. What he's great at doing is scoring. Those other guys have to play better. You know, Blake Griffin didn't play well. he played great the first two games. He did not play well in Milwaukee. They're going to need a lot of different.

Joe Harris has been terrible the last two games. Shooting was, you're right? She's 50% on three. He's got to make those shots. And he's going to still get shots because the floor is still going to tilt toward Durant. So you got knocked those shots down. You know, you have to make some of those shots. Some of their other players that you don't, you know, count on,

whether it's Bruce Brown or Jeff Green and people like that, somebody's going to have to come through and have a big game for them. You don't have to score 30, but somebody's going to have to score 20. You know, somebody's got to help Durant. But, yeah, Milwaukee, look, Milwaukee, your word that you used before was the right word, uncomfortable. The Bucks finally made Brooklyn feel uncomfortable. I mean, PJ Tucker was physical with Durant.

He fouled him a lot. Again, didn't get called over time. You know, but he put his body on him. He got in his airspace. He made it difficult for him. He made him less efficient. He didn't stop him. He just made him less efficient.

So the question for game five is who's going to make who feel uncomfortable? You know, and we saw, you know, guys like Connettin, play well and Bryn Ford, play good in Milwaukee. One of them's got to play good in Brooklyn. You know, it's the same thing. One of those guys has to play well in Brooklyn. PJ Tucker made three-threes in Milwaukee. He's got to make a couple in Brooklyn. If they're going to win the series, because I guarantee you they're going to put Yannis on the line a lot in the next three games.

Yeah, shooting 30.4% from the free throw line in this series. It's awful. It's awful. The other, I want to just through these other series real quickly, and then I'll let you run. I appreciate the time. So Chris Paul was phenomenal last night. I mean, for those of you that didn't see this, he had 37 points on 14 of 19. He didn't even attempt a three-pointer. who's nine for nine from the free throw line. His assist to turnover ratio in this series is outrageous.

It's like 10 to 1. And he's 36 years old. And last night he became just the third player in NBA history to go for 35 or more points at 36 years of age or older. The other two are Kareem and Carl Malone. He's been brilliant in this postseason. And he looked healthy last night too. I mean, he'd been playing hurt in the first series. How good is Phoenix?

And, you know, as somebody who's a big NBA guy like you are, are you rooting for Chris Paul because I am? Well, look, sure. I want Chris, you know, of course you want Chris Paul to have an opportunity to be in the finals. He's never had a chance to be in, and it's almost always involved just outrageously bad luck with injuries in the playoffs, where he just has not been able to play at his highest level. You're right.

He does look healthier. He looked healthier, much healthier in this series, and it was against the Lakers when he suffered the shoulder injury. And now they're going to get at least a week off. So, I mean, he should be good to go, I would think, for the conference finals. So, sure, yeah, you want Chris Paul. If you're a basketball fan, he's been a great player for a long time. He has not been able to push through.

And, you know, he's on a really good team now that has a chance to push through. He's been great. You know, Phoenix has been great. Look, I thought the Lakers were going to be them in the first round. I'll copped to that because the Lakers have a championship team with championship experience. And Phoenix, and I don't, you know, injuries to me are, I don't want to say they're an excuse. I'm not saying, I mean, I'm not being dismissable of them. I know the Lakers aren't as good without Anthony Davis, but look, everybody's got injuries.

Everybody's got something, somebody that's not 100%, and you still have to try to win the game. I mean, Chris Paul was not 100% in that series, and Phoenix still took the Lakers apart. You know what I mean? So everybody's got something to deal with this time of year. And so Phoenix has been much better than I thought they would be. They are clearly, to me, the best team in the West right now. No matter who wins between Utah and the Clippers, I think it's going to be a hell of a conference final. You know, this is really an interesting development here because we just don't see this without the formation of a super team, as you were talking about earlier with LeBron, and that is two years ago,

a team that was 19 and 63, and they didn't form a super team here. And here they are in the Western Conference finals, and they may very well, well, they wouldn't be favored over Utah. And to be honest with you, I think it'd be really closely with the Clippers, too, from an odds-making standpoint. But they've got a chance to make it to the NBA finals two years after going 19 and 63. What does that say for, you know, I'm a Wizards fan. I'm always looking for... I'm going to say, there's hope for the Wizards. Yeah, but is there?

Because this may be a total aberration. Well, look, obviously, you don't expect that to happen two years after winning 19 games. I think it's a combination of, you know, Chris Paul being a Hall of Fame caliber point guard. And, you know, when you have one of those, it changes your team. Devin Booker's really good. And some of the young players, and this is where they have separated themselves from the Wichita. They have drafted some impactful young players like Mikhail Bridges and Smyrdayton and people like that, you know. They've got three or four really good young players that they have either drafted or they've brought in like campaign that have helped them a lot.

And that's where they separate from the Wizards who have not done that yet. Those guys, you know, guys like Bridges, you know, 3&D wings who can do more, who can facilitate, who can do other things. Some of us have been, you know, pounding the lecterns saying the Washington team should be investing in some of those guys, those types of guys, because that's the NBA now, you need people who can do that, who can guard multiple positions and score. You can't have, you know, somebody that does one or the other, they have to do both. The good news is there's dozens of them available if you just pick one.

so maybe the Wizards will do that in this coming draft. But, yeah, it's not, it is a surprise. It is not what you would expect. It is, you know, some luck, but it's also Phoenix has been really good all year, Kevin. They've been excellent, and I've talked to Monty Williams about this. I wrote about this back in November, him saying that they really were a team that benefited from playing in the bubble. They won all their games. When eight and no, they didn't make the playoffs because they were so far behind going into the bubble.

But that time together, that month and a half of practice in Phoenix and then going to Orlando and then winning every game, he says really helped them a lot in terms of knowing who they were, knowing how they had to play to win games and playing and doing it together. And then you add a crisp ball to a team that's already kind of figuring things out. And it just, you know, you had this chemistry, this alchemy that led to this great season. Devin Booker or Bradley Beale right now you can pick either one. Well, I mean, it's really close. And in a vacuum, I would probably say Beal just because I think, you know, well, I know, it's very close. It's very close.

They're about the same. That's where, again, I think the comparisons to the Wizards are accurate in some ways. I do think Beal his ability to, his increasing ability to drive. draw foul. He's become very good at it the last couple of years. He gets to the foul line a lot. So maybe in a photo, I'd say Bradley, over Booker, but it's really close, I think for me it would be Booker. It's slightly different because Tatum's just bigger. Tatum or Beal? Oh, Tatum. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, yeah, no, I mean, Tedham's a score, rebounder.

You know, he's just, you know. Yeah. I've had this thing. Yeah. A long time ago. If there's two great players, take the taller one. This is basketball. Come on.

This is simple. Can the Clippers beat Utah? The other night was, I thought it was playoff P's best game. I think he's been very inconsistent. At times, horrible, even when the numbers have shown differently. He's been confused at times on the court. Yeah. can they come back and beat Utah?

I mean, I think they can. I mean, I had the Clippers going to the finals because I just think, you know, they've got the best guy. To me, Kaua Lennard's the best guy, you know, so, but that doesn't mean they will. Utah's doing this without Mike Conley. You haven't played at all in this series.

So Utah's very good. And I may not be giving Utah the respect that the number one seat deserves. I grant you that, Kevin. That may be a failing of mine. I think the Clippers can win, but I think Utah's been the better team so far, if that makes sense. And usually this time of you're the better team wins.

Yeah, it's funny because this was the series, other than the Wizards before they got dispatched, I really want to see it work for Kauai. I loved the run two years ago. He's my favorite player in the sport. I think he's arguably the best two-way player in the sport. he's certainly in the top two or three in that conversation. And, you know, he's taken a bit of a knock here, you know, for last year in the bubble. And even this year early when they were down to nothing.

I mean, I couldn't believe some criticism of him. I wonder if people actually watch. I think he's one of the best clutch performers in recent years as well. You know, people forget if he doesn't get hurt in game one against the Warriors, the Warriors don't win that title that year. He was great. You know, and better than he was when. when he was the NBA finals MVP with the Spurs the first time.

I hope they can do it, but I agree with you. I think Utah not only is very good. Man, I think they're one of the teams that play five-man basketball a lot. You know, Phoenix does the same thing. They're not an ISO team. I mean, they can be, you know, I'm not saying that there aren't ISO possessions with Mitchell, who is turning into a superstar if he wasn't there already.

But I think if they win tonight, I think tonight's key. If they win tonight, Kauai figures out a way in game five or game seven to win one, you know, like he did in Dallas on the road. Yeah, no, it's obviously the longer the series goes, the more favorites because one game, I still think he's the best player amongst those two teams, you know what I mean? Yeah. So, yeah, he could find a way to win.

But, yeah, I mean, I think game, you know, game four, it's certainly the series. If you saw wins that, they'll win the series. Philly, Atlanta. I mean, Phillies come back. Two good games got after that opener, I was like, man, Atlanta can really score, and they're really hard to guard. They can, but Philly's an excellent defensive team.

So good. So good defensively. They really are good defensively. I mean, they just have, they have what nobody else has. They have Ben Simmons. Nobody else has a guy like Ben Simmons. Yeah. You know, that you can just sick on whoever is hot

and just say, no, stop that guy. You know, and he's six-nine, Kevin. That's the thing. Like, he's not six-four. He's six-nine. So a guy like Trey Young is good as Tray-Gone. His program height is 6-11. My son and I were debating this.

He said, how big is Ben Simmons? And I said, he's listed at 6-11, and he goes, well, he's standing right next to Tobias Harris, and he doesn't look that much taller. No, I think he's six-nine. You know, it's that program. Yeah. You know what that is. He is.

Give me the comp to Ben Simmons over the years. I was having this conversation with a friend of mine a few weeks. weeks ago, a guy that is so good in every aspect of the game, but literally cannot shoot the basketball. Who's the comp? Well, it's hard to find one because of the unique skill set he has. You know, you could say, for example, Michael Cooper was not a great score, but Michael Cooper could make a three.

Oh, he was a great three-point shooter. Yeah. You know, he was a very good three-point shooter, right? And so we know Vincent's done to do that, right? So, you know, but it's not really a good to me. I mean, I can't think of anybody offhand that I would make a comp. It's like he's a more skilled Darryl Walker. You know what I mean?

Like Darry Walker was an excellent defensive player who could guard multiple positions, could not really shoot it all that well, was more of a post-up guy. But Ben is so much more dynamic with the ball in his hands. He can get to the rim. He can finish. You know, offensively, you can post him up and he'll score. So, yeah, I mean, there's not really nobody jumps to mind.

I would have to really sit down and think about it. Well, here's the reach. Here's the reach and bear with me on this. You know, when Magic came into the league, Magic had that set shot that was not very consistent. And he was obviously a bit of a transformational player being a, you know, a six-foot-nine-inch point guard. And with the passing skills, Magic was nowhere near the defender,

is. Trust me. We both know that. Magic became a consistent shooter with that set shot that he would find. And he, you know, he developed other ways to score like the baby hook, etc. But I think it's not a great comparison, but I couldn't come up with any other other than Jason Kidd couldn't shoot either, but he was 6-2. You know, this guy's 6-10, 6-9. I do love watching him play. I think he's also a badass competitor, too. is a unique player. I mean, like I said, there's nobody else in the league has one of those guys on their team. So he's unique. He's not, look, Magic's the greatest past of all time, period, and in a sense, I don't care about the assist, don't care how many more. He's the greatest pastor of all time, period. So this guy's not magic as a pass. But to your point, Magic is not the defender this guy is. So it's a hard comp to find somebody that has the skill set that Ben Simmons has, but that's why Phoenix Philly is a really, really good defensive team. and they make it, they're so long,

and now they're going to miss Danny Green. Don't get me wrong. That's going to hurt them, and it makes that series more competitive, but I still think Philly will grind out two more wins over Atlanta and get to the conference final. All right. Last one.

Who plays in the finals? Who wins it? It's hard not to think of Phoenix right now, and out of the West. Now, I have seen teams that have been on a role like that, who have, and I remember this distinctly, when Utah got to the finals in 97, and they just steamrolled everybody, but then they had two weeks off before they played the Bulls, and I thought, I never thought they got their timing back, they never got their, you know, their mojo back that

they had had, and so you wonder if this week off will actually hurt Phoenix in that sense, because they are on a real role right now. Like, if you're Phoenix, you want to play tomorrow, you know what I me like you'd love to start the conference finals tomorrow or wednesday you know you don't want to take a week all um so we'll see about that but phoenix certainly looks like the best team out west um in the east i boy it's with with brooklyn's injuries you know it's hard to pick them to either to both win this series and then beat philly in the next series so i think philly's got a good shot at it now kevin i really do i think philly's got a real good shot at this now Yeah, I think I do too.

I think the injuries, I'm really, I really don't think Durant can do this on his own. You said you think you can get 50. I think without one of the other two guys on the team, I don't think, I don't think Milwaukee will allow him to get 50. And he's got crazy ability, but they're going to make him into a playmaker and a facilitator. I think he's the least comfortable with that of the top three to five players.

in the game. Oh, I would agree with you in that, but I'm sure they will. But Brooklyn's going to figure out ways to get him to the elbow. As long as he gets to the elbow, he's going to shoot over anybody. You'll shoot over a double team. It doesn't matter. PJ Tucker wore him out yesterday. Man, he looked exhausted.

He was physical with him. And so you wonder if he will be allowed to be physical with him in Brooklyn. It just changes with the home team when the team is at home for whatever reason. All right. At David Aldridge, D.C. on Twitter. Subscribe to the athletic. Read David on the NBA, on the Washington football team, on all Washington sports. Ben, Tarek, Katz, Rian, everybody.

It's totally worth it. And it's always good to catch up and talk hoops with you. I hope you're well. I hope you're well, too, and thank you for having me. You got it. David Aldridge, everybody. A thought on the Packers' latest salvo from Mark Murphy right after this word from one of our sponsors.

Mark Murphy has a Super Bowl ring. Most of you know, Mark Murphy was a starting safety on the Super Bowl 17 champion Washington Redskins. And he's been, for a long period of time, the president and CEO of the only publicly traded team in American sports, the Green Bay Packers. And Mark Murphy's been in the news, probably as much in the last two weeks than he's ever been in the news.

And it's because of this Aaron Rogers situation. Last week, after saying, by the way, that he did not want this, you know, being a story that played out in the media between both sides, he's been a major participant in having it sort of try to play out in the media for the last two weeks. Mark Murphy said a week ago or so that Aaron Rogers, the Aaron Rogers situation, is dividing the fan base, which was a controversial comment. And then over the weekend, at an event at Lambeau Field, which he was speaking at, he said the following when asked about the Aaron Rogers situation. Mark Murphy, the team president and CEO, said, quote, I'm often reminded. minded of Ted Thompson. As most of you know, just a great general manager who passed away earlier

this year. Ted Thompson, the longtime Green Bay Packers general manager who worked under Mark Murphy. Murphy continued. He said, Thompson often talked about Aaron, that he's, and it wasn't just Aaron, it was a lot of different players, but he would say he's a complicated fella. So I'll just say that. Closed quote. So you heard him, he caught himself when he realized that he was using Ted Thompson's quote about Aaron to say, oh, it was about other players. But then he said, I'll just say that as well. He called Aaron Rogers a complicated fella. Well, everybody sort of understands to a certain degree that Aaron Rogers is complicated. I mean, he's estranged from his family. He basically cut off all of his family members. He had a relationship in which he bought not one but two homes with

Danica Patrick, then cut it off. You know, I don't know what his issues are. We've heard over the years that he's not the easiest guy to get along with, and that once he's made up his mind, you know, he moves on. And I understand that Mark Murphy is trying to say, hey, you know, this Aaron Rogers, he, you know, and using somebody else who said it, Ted Thompson, a great general manager. He's a complicated fella. And in back-to-back weeks, what Mark Murphy has done is to say, hey, this isn't just our fault.

It's his fault, too. You don't understand what we're working with. We're working with a really complicated guy. And this thing, you know, this Aaron Roger's situation is dividing the fan base. Martin Murphy needs to shut up. He said that he wasn't going to let this play out in public

in the media. And he's created two headline grabbers and back-to-back weeks. And this is a guy that, you know, went to Colgate and was an AD at Northwestern and has been a longtime president and CEO of an NFL team. He is coming off as too defensive. And by the way, ultimately, it is more the team's fault. Even if he is a complicated fella.

You know, the team, all they had to do is do what Minnesota did this year. Tell Kirk Cousins. hey, we might be drafting a quarterback. Hell, the Chicago Bears told Andy Dalton, who was there for a cup of coffee at that point, hey, we might be drafting a quarterback. And the Packers, and a lot of you would say, uh-uh, uh-uh, management employees. Management's got a responsibility to do what's best for the organization, and they have the right to make any decision, and if that makes him uncomfortable,

well, then he's the wrong guy. He shouldn't be threatened by Jordan Love. That's not the point. The point is that Aaron Rogers is really the face. and the value in the Green Bay Packers right now and has been since their last great quarterback, Brett Farr. There's no reason why they couldn't have gone to him and said, look, we're considering doing this. We want to let you know. We wanted to get your thoughts on it. You know, we don't know how long you'll be here. This is a play for the future. And it may be a play just to create some trade bait for the future in Jordan Love.

but they didn't do that. They cut them out of the process, and with that, this complicated fella made it personal. And the Packers are in a bind right now. I still think I would bet if I was forced to wager, which I would not on this situation, that he ends up as a Green Bay Packer. But man, I don't know how they get from where they are now to him playing on opening day against the New Orleans Saints. That's it for the day. Thanks to J.P. Finley. Thanks to David Aldridge. of you. Subscribe if you haven't done that. Doesn't cost you anything helps us. Also, don't forget to rate us and review us, especially on Apple Podcasts. Back tomorrow with Tommy. Have a great day.