The Kevin Sheehan Show - The New Booth + Barry Svrluga

Episode Date: August 12, 2020

Kevin opens with his thoughts on the new Washington Football radio booth. Then it's Barry Svrluga/Wash Post talking Caps, Washington Football, and more. Kevin finished up with why no fans allowed at Fed Ex might be a blessing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. Barry's Verluga from the Washington Post is going to be my guest here shortly. We're going to talk to Barry about a lot of things, including the Caps Islander series and some bigger issue topics with the capitals, knowing and understanding that many of you will either be watching the game when this podcast is out, or perhaps we'll listen to it after you've watched Game 1 this afternoon. I'm going to get to the announcement later on in the show that the Washington football team put out about no fans at FedEx Field. I wanted to open the show with the news about the new Washington football team radio broadcast booth. As most of you know, Julie Donaldson, who was at NBC Sports Washington, was hired by the team a few weeks ago.

She's the senior vice president of media. One of her first responsibilities was to put together the new radio broadcast booth. Larry Michael retired. And, you know, there was a lot of speculation about. what the booth would be. And many of you certainly reached out to me about Cooley and about Doc and about what their roles would be and would they remain a part of the broadcast booth. And many of you were very kind in suggesting that I could be, you know, someone that would be considered to be the play-by-play guy for that radio booth. They made the announcement yesterday that Bram Weinstein, DeAngelo Hall,

and Julie Donaldson will be the new booth. So no more Doc, no more Cooley. and yours truly was not hired to do the job. I had conversations with them. I'm not going to lie to you. I didn't have any conversations with Julie. Had conversations with Terry Bateman, who I've known for a while. But they were going for a different booth. In the story in the post, there is a paragraph that reads,

The new broadcast will be more interactive involving fans and will include references to pop culture and player's social media accounts in the hope of drawing a new and diverse audience. I actually think I would have been pretty good on the pop culture stuff. Not so much on the player's social media accounts, but they were going for something different. Now, Bram's 47 years old and Julie's 42, and D. Hall is 37 or 38 years old. So it's not exactly the youngest booth in the league or if they were looking for that direction. but I want to begin with this

because I'm going to get to my feelings about Doc and Cooley not being in the booth in a moment. I'm really happy for Bram. Bram's a friend of mine. A lot of us have worked with Bram over the years. Bram and I worked very closely together when Red Zebra, the Dan Snyder investment company, bought some radio stations and launched basically the first competitor to 980.

Bram and I were both hired. We were two of the first three. hires along with Rigo. The three of us were probably the top, the first three hires of that radio station. Bram and I did shows together. We hosted the pregame show together for a few years. He then went to ESPN and I thought he was excellent on television. And I'm happy for Bram. Really happy for him. He's been a lifelong fan. He did some play-by-play at ESPN on television. But most of us that have known Bram for a while, I think would all tell you, in a genuine, sincere way that, you know, even if we, even if some of us had aspirations to get that job on our own,

and I'm not just speaking about myself, but others, like Scott Jackson certainly could have done this. Al Galdi certainly would have been a great choice as well. But anyway, I think all of us, like Bram and are happy that he's going to get this opportunity. I actually also think DeAngelo Hall will be very good. I do. I think Dee Hall has been an incredible athlete in this town in that he came in as meangelo Hall and wasn't necessarily well thought of and just completely turned his reputation around and became a leader of the team that he was on. And I just think we saw him in so many ways mature and grow up before our very eyes. I've always liked DeAngelo Hall. I think he's smart. I think he's got a

great personality. I think he knows the game. I think he'll be good. Julie was hired to be the senior vice president of media a few weeks ago to replace Larry Michael. She's going to be a part of this broadcast. They're going for something different. And that's their goal. Going for something different in this effort. They want to involve fans and social media and they want to try to draw a new and diverse audience. Good luck to them on that. The bottom line with radio and sports play by play, is that, you know, it's not right now something that young people have gravitated towards. They can watch these games on their phone. They can follow these games in short video snippets on their phone. The audience for radio sports play-by-play is an older audience.

And where that audience still exists in volume is in places where teams are winning. You know, in many ways you don't have to totally rethink all of this stuff. your team's got to win. And I'm sure they will create some new and innovative things that will attract some, but it ain't that hard. If the team is really good, they've got a chance of increasing their audience. If the team continues to stink, it's going to be really hard no matter how many social media accounts they referenced during a broadcast to generate a new audience. I'm happy for Bram.

I think DeAngelo will be great. And Julie's going to be, you know, I have no idea what her. role will be in this booth, but I wish her the best as well. Now, Doc and Cooley were the reasons anybody was listening to this broadcast over the last few years. Doc has been a mainstay on this broadcast, his sense of humor, his personality has been a major draw. You've always known where Doc stood. He had great access, being on the sideline. Listen, Doc's been a talk show host on radio for a long time. Doc also was the number one analyst on ACC football games for many years.

Did lots of games on Westwood One radio. Doc's been calling games, whether in the booth or on the sideline, for a long period of time now. And he's good at it. He's really good at it. In fact, I've always felt that Doc should have been doing this at an even higher level. It's perfect for him, and it's perfectly. suited for his personality, and that broadcast will miss, my friend Doc Walker. It will. Cooley, totally unique when he came into that booth in 2013 with Sonny and Larry, with Doc on the

sideline. Unique in the way that Tony Romo is perceived to have totally changed the way NFL football games are analyzed by the lead analyst. Cooley was doing what Tony Romo was doing before Tony Romo was doing it. The problem is that nobody's following local radio. play-by-play. So if Coolly had been doing that on television, he would have been considered, you know, a pioneer. Cooley was calling out plays before they happened day one. Cooley was analyzing plays in a way in which we really hadn't heard. Look, my favorite broadcast team of all time is Frank, Sonny, and Sam. And one of the reasons I love that booth is Frank was really good, and Sonny and Sam were really good. They had incredible chemistry, and the team was winning. And they

were winning big. And that will always be, I think, for many of us, our favorite local broadcast, radio broadcast team. Cooley was phenomenal. And, you know, the reaction to the new booth is, I thought, overwhelmingly, based on what I could see, was more about Doc and Cooley not being there anymore than about the new people that are. And that's probably always the case. You know, it's a very subjective thing. All of this stuff that we do is very subjective. You know, people, some people really love it, some people really hate it, some people feel one way one day and the opposite the next. But when it comes to a long-time booth, you know, with a big-time organization, the new guys are going to, you know, they're going to be scrutinized early on and the old guys are going to be

missed. Doc and Cooley are going to be missed terribly from that broadcast. I personally, believe that the number of people listening and it had decreased in the last few years, those that were listening were listening for the two of them, period. I talked to Cooley last night. He's going to come on radio with me tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. on 980 a.m. and 95.9 FM. So tune in for that. But he is excited for DeAngelo Hall and thinks that D. Hall is going to be great. But he'll have more to say tomorrow. But Cooley's not a bitter person in that way. And, you know, he's always on to the next thing. Anyway, he really is a not look back person.

So he'll be just fine. All right, let's get to Barry's Verluga, but before we do that, I want to tell you about manscaped. Guys, if you're getting ready to head out on vacation to a beach, manscapes here to ensure your post-quarantine body is ready for the wild. Manscaped is dedicated to helping you level up your full body. grooming game and they have forever changed the grooming game with their perfect package 3.0. The perfect package 3.0 kit comes with the essential lawnmower 3.0 waterproof, cordless body trimmer and a ton of other liquid formulations to round out your manscaping routine. You'll also find the crop reviver, a below-the-belt toner that's designed to give you a pep in your step and for you to smell

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which is a $39 value, and the patented high performance anti-chafing Manscape boxer briefs. So go to Mancape.com today and use the code, The Athletic 20. All right, let's bring in Barry's Verluga, who, of course, is a columnist for the Washington Post and one of my favorites in town by Miles. There's just so many things going on this week that made me think of calling you to have you on the podcast because you write extensively about the Nats, about the caps, about college sports, about, you know, the Washington football team and so many things. And it seems like, you know, in an era of few sports or just return sports, there's just a lot of stories going on.

And I thought we could touch on several of them. And we'll start with the Caps who get their playoff series with the Islanders underway this afternoon. Now, some of you who are listening to this, the game will either be underway or perhaps already played. So I'll try to stick with a discussion that isn't dated by the time you listen to this. But Barry, you know, there's nothing normal about the times that we're. living in the way sports are being played or not played. And I'm wondering if you think this means there's less pressure on Todd Reardon to win a series in his second year, especially a series against Barry Trots. Yeah, I kind of do, Kevin. I think that whatever the spectrum we look at

these playoffs through, and, you know, we're talking about the Stanley Cup playoffs, but you could put that over the baseball season or even in a way the NFL season to come, kind of pressure and expectations have to be kind of modified because of the extraordinary circumstances. If this was Caps versus Islanders, Reardon versus Trots, and there were going to be 18,500 people at Capone Arena for game one, I think there would be a tension in the air, not that rivaled those old, you know, really tense buildings that we've talked about a million times before the Capps won the Cup when, you know,

there was so much pressure on Alex Ovetkin and that crew to push past Pittsburgh. All of those things have been overcome. But one thing that still lingers in the minds of, you know, ardent Caps fans is the guy who won the cup behind the bench was let go that that summer and is now coaching a team against them in the playoffs. And his former assistant, who now runs the Capitol, took essentially the same roster and lost in seven games to Carolina last year in the first round in what was, you know, a decided upset.

But I have to believe that in a series with no. real home ice advantage with no fans that are making it more or less tense, with all the games being played in Toronto, that there's an edge that's lost, and that, you know, puts less of a focus on, on Reardon and whether he can push past his old boss, and more of a focus on, wow, this is weird, and I'm not sure we're going to get to a point during these playoffs where it just feels completely normal. Yeah, I'm not so sure that in, you know, all of sports right now. Everybody doesn't get some level of a mulligan. But it is an interesting first-run matchup. And, you know, Barry Trots gets this franchise so cursed for so long, gets them over the hump,

they win a Stanley Cup, and it doesn't work out. And I don't know how to simply put why it didn't work out. I think my default has always been the caps were penny wise and pound foolish, and they stood on some level of principle that was silly. Do you agree with that? Is that the right way to characterize what happened? So I probably am on the other side of this. Okay. And I'll tell you why. It's for some pretty specific reasons. During that year of 2017-18, there were two very specific points during the year where it was pretty simple.

If Barry Trots lost that game that night, he was going to be replaced. One was around... November. Thanksgiving. Yeah. November. And then there was one in February where they actually beat San Jose in San Jose, which they hadn't done before.

And to his credit, he was very steadfast. Prior to the game in November, he had a big tongue-lack. that was in Denver after two really lackluster performances. And, you know, whether it was because of his coaching or not, the caps turned it around. And then he really coached with some freedom in the playoffs because he didn't have a deal beyond that year. And my belief was they were, you know,

if they had lost to Pittsburgh in the second round, it was a pretty easy choice. They were not going to bring him back. When he won the cup, it triggered a, we didn't know about this at the time, but winning the cup triggered a one-year extension for trots. Now, they were going to work on a longer-term thing, but he had negotiated that. So that was his term. If we win the cup, then I can't remember if it was one year at $4 million or $5 million, something like that.

His thought was, given his extraordinary regular season success, both in Washington and in Nashville, He's up there on the all-time victory list. And now with postseason success, that he should be paid amongst the top five or eight coaches in the league. The people making these decisions, you know, Brian McClellan, the GM and others, couldn't recommend to ownership that he's worth, you know, five years at six or seven million dollars a year. They just didn't feel like they could do that in good conscience. Now, were they working toward a solution? They thought they were.

Trots then, because the option had kicked in, he resigned the position. So is that semantics, probably? But I do kind of understand the process that they got to kind of an unusual outcome and written became the coach. Is it fair to say, though, that it didn't end amicably and that there's bad blood or not? You know, I think certainly when Trots was snapped up by the Islanders really quickly, and you knew he was going to get a job, he just won the Stanley Cup, and he's had, as I said, an amazing regular season record.

I think he felt disrespected because, you know, he thought his credentials were, I am now on the plane of a Joel Quindsler or, you know, some of the upper echel on NHL coaches. And you can have a disagreement about whether that's the case. Is it the case? Do you believe it's the case? Like, where would you put them, like, just on a top whatever list? So, okay, so here's what I would say.

I do not understand the X's and O's of hockey as well as I would. Right. Basketball. So in talking to people, they feel like he's, very good in the room and good for setting, and for what he came here to do, which was change the culture and, which is a phrase I don't want to lean on too much. But have some people be accountable, including the captain number eight, the best player in franchise history, and really set up a system that overhauled how the locker room works. He did that perfectly.

people would tell me, and this is beyond my graph, that his exos and his in-game adjustments weren't always great, and his in-game adjustments weren't always great. I've got to rely on other people to say that. I can't, you know, if I'm looking at Mark Turgeon or Dave Martinez, I feel much more comfortable making that assessment myself. So there's a, you know, in this market, it's not Toronto for hockey. The media isn't quite as capable of assessing those things.

We don't obsess over the pregame and the postgame like we do with other sports. And it's funny, we're getting sidetracked here. But I'm always asked about why, you know, sometimes, especially during the fall or winter in hockey season, why we won't spend more time on it on radio. And I've always explained, look, first of all, the playoffs are a different story. We've always treated it differently. But people don't know hockey. They feel like they know football, basketball, and baseball.

So they obsess over why they didn't go for the fourth and three or why they call the time out, you know, why Mark Turgeon called a time out at the certain time that he did, or why they decided to sack butt in a certain situation. People feel like they have an understanding, but this isn't a natural, you know, understanding of hockey area. It just never has been. So in talk radio, Barry, when people don't obsess over the pregame or the post game, you end up with a lot of, man, I just hope they really play hard. You know, it's skid, and that's the conversation, unfortunately.

I mean, I think there's some level of hockey and now it's grown. But that is instinctive. Like, you know, is the power play working well? Are they moving the puck? Are they creating chances? Like, there's some stuff that just viscerally you can understand. understand. They looked blackluster. They were disorganized. You can understand those things without understanding the exos of hockey systems. But once you get to that next level analysis

that I think, you know, around here with the football team has certainly always been the case. And over the 15 years that the baseball team has been in town, back in town, that has, you know, fans have become smarter but more educated, understand matchups. And, you you know, it's always been kind of a basketball town. So, you know, if the pro team or the college teams are any good, I think people really are able to break it down and want to break it down. That just hasn't been, I'm not saying there aren't fans who love breaking down X's as well as breaking down exos of hockey because there are.

It's just not the preponderance. That's right. Who are readership or listenership. Yeah, there isn't a significant number of people that are going to tell you they should have gone to that one-three-one trapping, you know, zone defense at that point. But it is funny because I think as sports fans, especially in the postseason, and I enjoy postseason hockey, you know, there are observations you make that aren't that far off. I mean, you know, a couple that you just mentioned.

I remember when they played Toronto a few years ago, it was striking how much faster Toronto was. And to try to figure out how it was that the caps got through that series was interesting. But anyway, we're getting into not an area that is super comfortable for me. not even for you either. But back to Bad Blood. Do Ted and Barry Trots, are they on each other's Christmas card list?

No, but I don't think they're like putting a stink bomb under their dormant either. I mean, I think there's an understanding that yeah, would Trots have wanted to be, I think the praise that he would probably

use is more respected, show the respect for his accomplishment. But again, I think from a hockey operation standpoint, this was a business decision. You know, Kevin, like, if you make a recommendation for somebody, you're putting your reputation on the line, too. So the folks in the hockey front office who are having to say to ownership, yes, I think we should go five more years with the guy that we almost fired twice during the season,

I see the logic there. I see both sides of this one. And is there a little edge for Trots? I'm sure there is. There's got to be. And he has enormous respect for so many of that core that helped make him a Stanley Cup winning coach. But I don't think, maybe I'm wrong. I don't think after he stopped answering the questions about that,

but this series is going to be just completely about Barry Trots of Bad Blood with Washington. I think he's super happy with what they accomplished here. and he's got a new, very different team that he's kind of maxing out talent-wise. Certainly the capitals are the more talented team here. That doesn't always mean to win in hockey, but Trots can kind of cast themselves as an underdog and try to coach his team against a team and a system that he knows really, really well. So I was talking to Tark this morning, Tark-El-Bashir, about the, about Ovechkin. and this, you know, the proverbial is the window closing, et cetera.

And he mentioned something to me that was interesting because I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this as it applies to hockey, and that is the business environment around hockey and how important gate and attendances to the financial model in hockey. And that more likely than not as they look towards the next season, there won't be more likely than not fans or certain enough, certainly at this point, enough fans, and that the survival of some of these teams could actually be in a bit of jeopardy. And so this playoff bubble in Toronto, the two bubbles, and Edmonton,

you know, that there could be the possibility of no season next year. And this could be the last legitimate run for Ovechkin for Baxter. Have you thought about it that way? I haven't, and I'm not saying that that makes Tark wrong in any way. He's covered the league a lot more and a lot more intensely than I have and for longer. What I would say is that, you know, one, they have signed back to an extension. And my understanding of this whole operation is that this team, to the extent it belongs to anybody other than Ted Leone, belongs to Alex Ovechkin and Nicholas Baxter, and that in a very kind of un-New England Patriots kind of way,

they are not going to let Alex Ovechkin finish his career in another uniform. Now, all of that, what I just said is reporting from pre-pandemic, but I don't think that this the pandemic and playing without fans changes the very fundamental statement that Alex Ovetkin as Batman and Nick Baskerum as Robin rebuilt hockey and established the sport in this town in a way that will be appreciated for essentially forever and that that they're not going to allow this very, very significant blip of a fanless season change that kind of foundation. They have a deep-pocketed owner who, whatever you think of had, I think his stewardship of the franchise is hard to argue with when you look at the big picture. certainly on the hockey side.

And I don't see a scenario where, one, the caps don't exist because they are in better shape than a lot of NHLs. And two, that they exist without Alex Ovechkin for the rest of whatever his career is going to be. And I think really what he was driving at more was that without a hockey season in 2021, which is a possibility if they can't have fans, then you're talking about perhaps a 36-year-old Alex Ovechkin

when he gets to his next post-season game after those that are played in Toronto here over the next couple of weeks and whether or not his personal window, even though it sounds so cliche, but maybe this is the real opportunity for them to go win another cup or to go really deep. Yeah, sure. I mean, and that part makes sense.

makes sense to me. And, you know, if you want to extend that core out, I mean, Braden Holpe is the cup-winning goalie and made the save, and that might be the signature moment along with Kuznetsov goal against Pittsburgh of that whole run. He is a free agent to be, and, you know, there's a high likelihood that they will not be able to sign him, and particularly because coming up his kind of worst statistical regular season

that was interrupted if he gets hot in the playoffs and for them to go deep he's going to have to be the best version of himself then he reestablishes his marketability

and therefore you know you would be entrusting the net to Ilya Sampsonoff a young talented goalie but unproven does that lessen

the chance that Obetchkin can win going forward because you don't have that stalwart that O'Holpe has been over the entirety of his career. I mean, the end result, Kevin is, Alceauvetkin has done this a long time at a very high level. That can't happen forever. The core around him is skews more old than it does young. You know, T.J. O'Shee isn't super young anymore.

even John Carlson is not young. You know, is there a Jacob Prana, you know, kind of on the early part of his career, sure. But overall, this is not, the guys you would consider the core are on the downside of their careers rather than the upside. And that puzzle, when you look at it financially, means it's harder to add talented, expensive on-the-rise players because you're up against the cap with what you've considered your core for such a long time. All right. Last one on the Capitals. I mean, even though it's possible people will be listening to this tonight after Game 1's played,

what's your prediction on the series and how far they can go in this postseason? Well, I think they should, can win this series, and I think it should be, you know, in six games or something, five or six games. You know, I have, I know they started the reentry kind of listlessly. I maybe have too much trust in their room, but I just think they are the better team in this regard. Or in this matchup, I think in terms of how far they can go, you know, anything and everything is on the table. and then includes losing to the Islanders, but also includes going to the Stanley Cup final

because you don't really have to think about, well, would they have home field at home ice advantage in the second round? I mean, all that is kind of out the window. And I think there are X factors because of the specifics of how this is going to play out that we don't know. Like, is there a team that fed off the crowd

more than we know? How are they going to handle this? continued existence in this bubble, which right now, you know, has only been for a few weeks, but as you go deeper and deeper, you're talking about being away from your family and other support structure for a long, long time. I think it's just hard to predict what players, and individually and what teams collectively will handle these unprecedented circumstances well, and which ones might not. They have a roster that if they click,

and as I said, if their goalie is the best version of themselves, can beat anybody out there. But they're not such overwhelming favorites that they can just kind of go through the motions and make it happen. I'm curious, as I watch this game, you know, cover it from afar. I'm curious as to how locked in I'll be given that the circumstances are so different. Will it be like, oh, wow, look at that, that was a bad call,

they got screwed on that penalty, or look at the power play is working so well, or they need to fix this, or is the weirdness of it all going to override all those normal sports spots? I can't say before it starts. You know, you just, I want to get to the skins, the Washington football team and all the stuff that's been going on, especially with the owner in particular. You know, you're a columnist. You're not on the beat for a lot of these things, but your life professionally has changed significantly. You don't get to go and be in locker rooms. You don't get to talk face to face with a lot of the people that you're writing about. How has it impacted what you do? Well, it's a huge, huge impact. And, I mean, you know, I could talk about it for hours and four people. But it's a sausage. I'm going to write about it, you know, kind of. as part of this caps column, which won't be a normal, like,

hey, they jumped out to a bit start and boy, did Tom Wilson look good. And if they play like this, they'll sweep the Islanders or whatever, normally might do if you're sitting in the press box on F Street. But there's a real fundamental part of my job, the beat writer's job, everybody else in town's job that has evaporated because of the virus. And I'm not, I want to be clear, I'm not whining about this. I am dealing with the circumstances that we're dealt with and that we're, you know, we can't talk to these people in person for health and safety reasons.

I'm totally, totally fine with that. That said, it really, and to me and for me, it impacts me most in baseball because that's a clubhouse that I've been in a lot. I know a lot of the characters. I can get people one-on-one. I went to the Nats last week for the Scherzer start that he came out of. And, you know, you get Dave Martinez by Zoom, and you get Max Scher by Zoom,

and you get one photo by Zoom, and everybody has the same material. There's no kind of chatting up the hitting coach. There's no on, you know, during that, adding practice like run into Mike Rizzo and chat for 10 minutes, all the stuff that adds that the readers don't know, the access matters, that's all stripped away. And kind of everybody is provided with the same material and there's no advantage for people who have been around and know people.

And it's just different. So it's having a huge impact on how I do my job. and it'll be interesting to see, after getting through today, am I going to, you know, normally in the hockey playoffs, like at least from the decisive game of round one, I'm all in. I'm on the road in the second round, and, you know, you're getting a column every game,

and it becomes my job for however longer in the playoffs. I wonder if that'll be the case going forward, how much time and effort we're going to be putting into game columns on the caps when you can. can't really get it. I'm going to be watching them from my couch, not in Toronto, and I'm not going to be talking to these people live. It's definitely different. Yeah, I mean, and I've talked to Tommy about this as well, but the one thing, you know, that you do have and those like you have that are good is you've got your writing talent and skill, and then you've got your creativity,

you know, ability. I mean, what you guys do as a columnist is similar in many ways to what a talk show host does. I mean, there's a creative element to coming up with, well, what's today's column? You know, in the case of a three-hour radio show, sometimes, you know, what are today's three columns, you know, that we can sort of be creative about and create, you know, enough of a reaction to get people to call in or whatever, but you've always had that. I mean, and that's a big advantage. So, yeah, I'm not just counting that, but what I think the way I look at it is, is, okay, if I'm writing three or four times in a week, in a normal week, is one of them relying on the creative idea or, you know, hey, have you thought of it this way kind of thing,

is another relying on, okay, I have a really good relationship with ex-athlete in town or executive or coach or whatever, and I've got some, I mean, I used to try to do this with Bryce Harper, I joke with him, like, okay, let's do Bryce unplug like twice a year, and he'd kind of, you know, cut open a vein and you'd have stuff that you wouldn't get somewhere else. Sure. The access one. Exactly.

So there's some, like, okay, I know this team in his history really well. I can write it strong because I know that there's some, like, I know the character, so maybe he'll say something to me that he wouldn't say somewhere else. And then there's the other idea that this is totally out of the box, and I'm thinking of a creative. So anyway, it's just the mix changes up, and the circumstances are different, and I'm going to do the best job of the best of my ability. But it's just going to be different. Do you find that the teams themselves understand that what you just described, which is the access column, you know, the ability to have and develop these relationships and have the ability to sit one-on-one? Do you think these teams recognize that it's to their benefit to continue to attempt,

even if it's by personal Zoom or personal call, to give you that access? Well, I do think they do understand that broadly. I mean, I think if you really want to get into this, my colleagues and I have a large fear that, you know, when we get on the other side of the pandemic, you know, are we ever going to be in a locker room again? Is it going to be such an easy thing to take away because they had to take it away for a while? And then I'll be sitting there on the side as somebody who has no financial interest in, you know,

the success of the Washington Nationals of the success of MLB or any of these teams. I'm not a suite holder. I'm not a sponsor. I'm not paying for any of this access. I'm just asking for it because that's the way it's always been. I think, realistically, from a league and team standpoint, it would be a thing that they could take away. I would have to implore, and I've had some of these discussions with league and team officials already, that the better stories, the truer stories, are written and told when subject over time feels comfortable with the person

who's going to do the storytelling. So is that enough to tilt the needle in our favor? I have no idea, but I can tell you that, you know, it just makes sense that if, you know, athlete A is comfortable with reporter B, the story is going to be a lot closer to the truth and a lot more open. And that matters in, to me, that matters in fans understanding

how these athletes work and who they are. It matters in providing fodder for radio hosts who might read something and say, well, that was interesting. I hadn't seen it that way. I'm talking about it with my listeners now, but I'm also calling the reporter and saying, well, hey, how did that come about? It's all content that helps drive. It's not my goal to drive attention to these teams,

but that's part of the outcome. right? If we're writing about them and people find it interesting and they're engaged with the team, some of what their understanding of how the team works is going to come from the kind of stuff that we do that, you know, for which I think access is important. You know, it's funny because you said that you don't have anything vested in the outcome of the teams. You know, you're not a suite holder, you're not a sponsor, etc. But I feel like there is personal benefit when these teams do well. Now, I'm a fan and I'm not a journalist, and so part of what I do is it's opinion, but there is absolutely no downside. In fact,

it's encouraged to express what you are passionate about and who you're a fan of. But don't you believe that for anybody in sports media, it's much better when the local teams win and win big? So what my, yes, there's no, I mean, I mean, I think it's a layered answer, but if I was, if we had five seconds, I would say yes, that is, that is true. When I covered the football team as part of our beat crew out there, which is now, you know, eight or ten years ago, the, the interesting storylines that were going to get readers were either, you know, 11 and 5 and go into the playoffs and RG3 is on the rise, or 3 and 13. What you didn't want was 7 and 9, 9 and 7 missed the playoffs, because then it's just kind of like, eh, well, so then take that to take the idea of how much our success and our jobs is predicated on the success of the team.

go to the caps in 2018. I went into that playoffs thinking the story has to change. I wanted them to if I'm most honest with myself, I wanted them to push past Pittsburgh because I didn't know if I could pull up

another, oh my God, disappointed against Pittsburgh column again. Of course. I said this before. I'm at the risk of plagiarizing myself from in the past. Right. That was true with the national.

last year. It's like, do I care whether they go deep in the playoffs? I mean, I care to the extent that it affects my life and my logistics, and yes, it would be cool to cover a World Series in my hometown. But what needed to change was the story. Howie Kendrick needed to hit that grand slam against the Dodgers, because without that, there's just another game five dud for this franchise that is repeating, you know, it's just on, you know, wash, rinse, and repeat cycle. So I want the story to be different. I want the story to be engaging. And if that means that the local teams, you know, have to do well after years of doing poorly, then that's totally fine. So let's move to the wash, rinse, and repeat, you know, story of the last 21 years, which would

be the local football team. As an aside, we always felt the same way that, you know, 11 and 5 was really good for us. But 8 and 8 wasn't unless there was a lot of content. controversy and that 5 and 11, if it bred a ton of controversy was okay, what I have realized in recent years is that because there's been such an erosion of, you know, that hardcore base, that 3 and 13 is no good anymore. You know, that at this point, at this point, winning is about the only thing that's going to, I mean, look, look at the attendance, look at the television ratings. You know, we see it in our world when it comes to football season and the sponsor excitement, the advertiser excitement. And sometimes that has nothing to do with ratings.

It has to do with whether or not the local, you know, the local, you know, advertising community believes in the football team or not. And believes there will be, you know, ears and eyeballs on it. So anyway, so about this football team. I think the last month and a half, two months have been absolutely stunning and remarkable. You know me, I'm a lifelong fan, born and raised in this city, have been doing this for 17 years and talking about the team, was a part of the broadcast pre-game show for 13 seasons. And I don't think I've ever seen anything happen so quickly, so swiftly,

with the name change, with the story in your paper that was incredibly damaging with the lead-up to it. Before I get specifically to this Snyder stuff, because I wanted to get your thoughts on this, you've been covering this team forever as well. It's been a remarkable couple of months. What's your reaction to it been? Well, it certainly has been, and I think that, you know, start with the name change. that was a drip, drip, drip thing over years, obviously with various people complaining about it, others sticking up for it, the owner saying it would never all caps change.

But it really showed that what was happening in the country can have a direct impact on people that have previously just dug in their heels on stuff. So while that was like, it felt really sudden at the end, it was, you know, really had built over years. And then after George Floyd's death, I think the country, you know, felt different about all that stuff. Certainly FedEx and Pepsi and the sponsors that came out, you know, I don't think the owner would have changed the name if there hadn't been a real financial shift. I'm not sure he was particularly concerned about the society. that it happened over the last couple months. But that felt like a pivot point.

It also feels like a pivot point because, you know, not for the first time. They have changed the football leadership and are talking about a real change of culture. And it does seem like Juan Rivera has been given an extraordinary amount of power, probably more power than he anticipated, given that, you know, the statements that they've put out and said he's going to help try to figure out what the name should be, and, you know, who knows whether he wanted those responsibilities, but before he coaches a game here, he has been. So there's an opportunity for a pivot here that is also enhanced by, at some point, the stadium thing is going to have to work out. And so if you're talking about,

a team that is completely rebranded in terms of what its name is and what its apparel is going like and all of that. With a coach who I think it's fair to say before he coaches the game is it gendering more hope than skepticism with, you know, a quarterback that I don't think the fan base is 100% behind, but I think, you know, is willing to think has a fairly significant upside with the idea that the stadium that everybody hates and has been reluctant to go to to see a lousy products because it's not a good in-game experience or game day experience, even if the product is good, if you're able to package all of that and get people around here, you know, in on the

idea that the franchise is headed in a different direction, then maybe it can work. I think it's hard until you see results because the fan base I think would lean back on, but the owner's still the same. And that is what I lean back on. I'm skeptical about results because that's the thing that probably needs to change, and that's the one thing that hasn't. But there's a lot of things that I think you would say, okay, they've turned in a different direction on a lot of fronts. Maybe that's a reason to hope that results will be different. So that leads me to the owner. It's a perfect segue. I tend to agree with you as someone who has wagered, made a wager or two over his lifetime. If you told me I had to wager on whether or not this franchise turns it around and becomes a sustained winner, I would wager against it as long as he is the owner. I've got 21 years of data to support that, you know, and justify that wager. So I think the last couple of days have been a number of. interesting and fascinating couple of days. Snyder sues this company, this media company, for basically a disinformation campaign leading up to the Liz and Will Dobson story in your paper,

which is now, what, a month ago? And we know about the incredible speculation and internet, you know, rampant rumors that were flying around, him tied to Jeffrey Epstein, sex trafficking, you know, bribing NFL referees. It was crazy. the lead up to that. And then the story came out, and, you know, we're here a month later, and he's suing this company. But more importantly, and this is really where it took an incredible twist, and this is from Will Hobson's story in your paper yesterday, or two days ago now, Snyder accused a former team employee in a federal court filing of being involved in that internet misinformation campaign. Mary Ellen Blair, who was a former executive assistant to Snyder, they're accusing of acting as an intermediary for unnamed adversaries that Snyder thinks paid this India-based online news company to publish these false stories that week.

And it links back to a company that potentially could link back to Comstock Holdings, which is owned by Dwight Schar's son-in-law, and his daughter. is a senior VP at the company and sits on the company's board of directors. I think this is one of the more interesting stories because, you know, the story, Barry, about the three minority owners wanting to sell, which is now basically two months old, has really not been updated. There's been no follow-up to Fred Smith, Dwight-Shar, Bob Rothman, wanting to get away from Snyder and sell their 40% stake. And now you've got this particular thing out.

there. What is your reaction to this? And do you think that this is perhaps another future bombshell? Well, so I would say that to me, it sounds like the owner being backed into a corner, a bunch of bad publicity in terms of the culture in the building that if he didn't create it, he certainly didn't stop it from happening in terms of all the actual harassment stuff. that was the original Will Hotson, was Clark's story, that he feels maligned. And in my mind,

this suit seems one conspiratorial, like to a degree where you almost have to put a flowchart out to say, like, okay, wait, who's white char's, like, what relation owns what? And who, you know, it's related in the ex-personal assistant in what way. that sounds, to me, paranoid. It also, you know, this suit, and this happened when he sued Washington City paper a long time ago,

for somebody who's at some level of success, at least a financial success, not with the NFL team, but he made one good decision that made him wealthy for years and, you know, for the rest of his life, why get down in the weeds on something like this? It really only serves to extend the life of the story. It won't, I don't think, help him in the eyes of fans. It will serve to make him look more defensive and paranoid. And also put the focus on something that I think is true. I think we used to know a little bit about who Dan Snyder's inner circle was.

And it was, you know, Bruce Allen for a decade, but it was also by Schar and Fred Smith and the minority owners who would sit in that box on Sundays. And I always thought, and I don't know Fred Smith at all, but, you know, a successful person with FedEx and really with, you know, a great reputation, I always wondered, why did guys like that who don't need success by association, who don't need to enhance their own reputation? Why have they chosen to partner up with Snyder? And so, you know, in the story you're talking about, with the,

the lawsuit and stuff, instead of saying, like, making me think, well, Dan has a good point. I bet you there are people off, you know, go stuff to get him on the internet, and that's really unfair. It makes me think more about why were those guys associated with Snyder in the first place, and now they're trying to get out. It makes me think, like, who is advising him? And not to make this about politics, but I do think there's a, you know, just in terms of the way the current president reacts to criticism and dismisses people who start to not agree with him. I see some of those same behaviors in these stories with Snyder that he doesn't like. Think it out. Well, and he doesn't like to be combative.

He wants to get men around. So that's, I mean, maybe that's a reach, but it makes me think that kind of stuff. So there's something really interesting about this story, too. And it leads back to Will and Liz's piece. The irony is that he's going after the people that created these false rumors leading up to the post story, which was a wild week. And I forget if we've even talked about the lead up to that, and why that happened. But the irony of this is, and bear with me here, is that actually that wild internet speculation that tied him to Epstein, that talked about sex trafficking and bribing NFL referees and abusing drugs, et cetera, et cetera, made the actual story, which by the way, as a standalone entity was very damaging.

Very damaging. If that story had been dropped on everybody's phone at 4 o'clock on that Thursday afternoon with no buildup, it would have been. an oh wow moment. But in their mind's eye, it's twisted. But I've seen the letters that went out from their sales and marketing department two days after the story, essentially attaching the story to a letter that said all of those internet rumors, they weren't true. What is true is the attached story from the Washington Post. That's incredible to me. They essentially felt and took a deep, I think exhale that week. Again, the story, trust me, I understand what it was. Fifteen women.

Not one, not two, 15. But the irony is that speculation actually made things in their own mind better for them when the actual story came out. Well, so I'll tell you, you know, my conspiracy theory on all the, you know, wind up to it, was that it actually came from inside the football team's building because they were trying to kneecap the impact of the story before it came out. So, you know, I don't, I'm not privy to all the logistics of how, of how that came about, but I will say that, you know, if you're going to accuse a company or accuse employees of specific behavior,

you have to go to them and say, here's what we have. What is your response? And their response appropriately was to fire Alex Santos. And, you know, Larry Michael apparently very quickly decided he was too old for his job. And so those, there was going to be some trickle out of information because in the course of reporting, you have to allow the accused to respond. And so there were some data points of things that had happened, like why had they fired these people,

that led to a little bit of, like, room for speculation. My concern was that the rumors were to get so wild that the fan base would shrug its shoulders when the story came out. to Will and Liz's undying credit, they had lots of good information in there. It was locked down. It has already led to changes in the organization. And there's no one who could read it. You might say, like, oh, well, it doesn't get to the owner, but there's nobody you

would say, like, that's not a story. That's a story. It was a story. It led to change. That's great. What I think would have been better, not just from a human standpoint, but from a PR standpoint, would have been better for the owner instead of suing some media company and putting out and acknowledging these rumors. I think it would have been better saying, as it's always been better for him to say, if he showed some level of contrition or culpability and said, I was. blind to these issues, they occurred on my watch. I need to create a better environment for

everybody to work here. I value a safe workplace. I want a happy workforce. We're all going to be better going forward. That would be the way to go about it. He either is incapable of doing that. Has no one advising him that maybe that would be a good path, or is just so angry about it being forced to make these changes that he's going to lash out legally rather than saying, I understand that these issues were really painful for a lot of people. There's no doubt that that is 100% true. And for those of you listening who argue with me, and there's just a few of you out there, understand that what Barry said, and I've mentioned this before, too,

there is an inability, an arrogance, perhaps a total lack of self-awareness and an ability to take personal accountability for anything. It's never his fault. The statement that came out after this story was not an apology and was not a personal accountability or responsibility for it. it was we've hired Beth Wilkinson to investigate. It's the opposite of what Mark Cuban did. And Mark Cuban came out, ironically, a few days after that and said, whoever knows Dan Snyder should tell him, you've got to apologize and you've got to take responsibility. But it's never been, Barry, for 21 years, never been his fault.

And that's why the wager against, you know, sustained excellence as a football organization is the right wager. because at 55, 56 years old, it's really tough to change. You know, it really is. Well, and I agree with you about the bet. I mean, as much of the things I talk about... And I hope I'm wrong. Yeah, I mean, but you... And some of that I say because I don't want to be overwhelmingly negative

with everything that happens with the football team. I mean, I want to be able to look and see things that are positive, and I do think there are things that are positive. But if I'm talking to you on this, podcast if I'm talking to friends over beers, if you get down to the truth of the matter, I am extremely suspicious that there can be any sort of sustained success under current ownership. Do you think there's more, let's put the Rivera and the culture change that he's trying to create on the football side. Do you think there's more, based on these stories here over the last week,

Do you think there's more turmoil ahead? I mean, again, if I'm at Vegas and it's offered the yes-no black-white offering, I'm certainly going to bet on there's more to come because, you know, having been around here for 17 years, there always seems more to come. And again, you know, we're talking about these current things from this summer, and is this the craziest time for this football team? I'll always go back to, you know, standing there as they introduced mid-season change in an offensive coordinator to make play calling on a Wednesday. And, you know, the gentleman in front of us when we asked what he was doing last week, he said he was calling bingo games at a retirement home.

So there's no. And that's a different story. And, yeah, and so there's different versions of the game. that over the year. Yeah, that was one of my all-time favorites, especially when the then general manager, one Vincent Serrato, didn't know anything about him, but mentioned on a conference call with reporters that I happened to have been on. But I do know that his father used to coach at Eastern Michigan. That was the answer. That was a beauty. All right, you know how much I appreciate this. I did not mean to keep you this long. By the way, I just, I'm sitting here. The master's just announced,

No spectators at the event. No patrons. No patrons for the Masters in November. Have you been enjoying the golf? I really enjoyed last weekend. Have you as well? Yes. Yes, for sure. And as I've mentioned on Twitter, I'm a huge fan. If I'm not covering the event, a huge fan of the West Coast major. Oh, the best. being able to plop down on a Friday night and watch golf until 930 or 10 o'clock is special. I've enjoyed it a lot. Yeah, me too. We need Tiger to play a little bit more.

That would be better. Yeah, that would be better. Thank you for this. I really appreciate it. Stay well. We'll talk soon. Thanks, Kevin. Anytime.

That was awesome with Barry. Really appreciate the time from him. He does such a good job with his column in the post. Quick word real quickly from, Indochino. All right, I wanted to finish up with the news from earlier this morning that the Washington football team is not going to have fans at FedEx Field for the upcoming season. They did say that the decision will be re-evaluated by all parties,

should the situation surrounding the pandemic improve over the course of the season. There was a super long quote from the owner in the press release that they put out on this. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen more words from the owner and a press release over a long period of time. It's probably been a while. But he said, quote, we are fortunate to host the best fans in the NFL year after year. But the well-being of those supporters, along with that of our players, coaches and each and every member of our game day staff is simply too important. And the current knowledge of COVID-19 too unpredictable to welcome our fan base to FedEx Field to start the season. He then takes credit for being the first team in the league to recall our scouts and other personnel from the field back in mid-March

and have been monitoring this evolving situation ever since. And then it goes on and on. Anyway, of course, the jokes came rushing in when the team put this out on their Twitter account this morning, putting the release out that they're not going to have fans at FedEx Field. You know, one after another because of how the stadium is essentially really last year at times, one seventh filled. I mean, literally, there were games in which maybe 10 to 15,000 people were in that stadium. But the responses that they got on Twitter were just one after another. You know, not necessarily bad news.

That means the fans of the opposing team will be unable to attend the games. Washington football team been socially distancing for years. And on and on it went. You know, I actually was thinking about this. And I think I mentioned this before at some point. This is a break for them. I know it sounds weird, but this is an actual break for the Washington football team

to not essentially be allowed, if you will, by the state, by the county. and by the way, taking good health measures anyway to restrict fan attendance. This is the year not to have it. You weren't going to have a significant number of people there anyway. No matter what we all believe about Ron Rivera being the right guy and maybe a little bit of juice around the roster and his ability to coach it up and an opener against Philadelphia.

and, you know, could they go from last to first? You know, will the coaching staff be the big difference? What will Chase Young look like? You know, the second overall pick, Dwayne Haskins, etc. The bottom line is they were really struggling before the pandemic to sell any tickets for the 2020 season. You've had a name change, which for many of the fans, and I would say at least a slight majority of the fans,

if not more than a slight majority. are really angry and hurt right now. And so this gives more time for that to cool off a little bit. You would have had a lot of angered, saddened fans that either didn't show or if they did were going out of their way to make their feelings really felt on the name change. And now you put that into delay mode. And by the time you get to live fans at FedEx, it's going to be very very, very, very much. much in the rear view, and you will have already played a full season without that name. You combine that with what was going to be a half-filled stadium at best with a significant

percentage of opposing fans there, especially when you played the teams like Baltimore is a home game, Philly, New York, et cetera. It's actually not a bad result for the home team. you know, financially, no matter who they sell tickets to, you know, it's a revenue generator. And it's tough to sell corporate sponsors for naming rights and various signage around a stadium when no one is there. So financially, it's not a good thing for them. But in every other aspect of it, it's actually not a bad thing. It also gives them some time to, you know, start what they are finished, what they've already started, which is to remake the stadium and to remove all of the references to the Redskins,

which they've already started that process. And it's apparently quite the process. I was talking to somebody in the know about a week ago about the cost to essentially de-brand, you know, to take it off of every chair, off of every building, off of every wall, in every locker room, on every locker, whether it's the lower, logo or the name. It's a very expensive process and a process that takes a while to get done. So ultimately, no fans at FedEx Field. There weren't going to be many to begin with. Now, what you do miss out on the possibility of is if the team is better than we think,

you know, a momentum build during the year and the possibility that even though maybe those first few home games against the Ravens game would have been packed. Now, we know that with Baltimore fans. They get to at least avoid that. But, you know, perhaps by the time you got to October, you know, if they were sitting there at five and two when Rivera's being talked about is, you know, the coach of the year, and you got a home game against the Cowboys, now you got a chance. You know, late in the season, you know, you got a game against the Seahawks, and it's a big game for playoff possibilities.

You got a chance. But going into it, I think that there may be. some benefit to this being forced upon them, to not have fans, and to almost take a year off when it comes to what has been just an ugly scene at FedEx Field for the last couple of years. All right, a Caps prediction, I think they beat the Islanders. I don't, most of you know, I'm not, I'm far from a hockey expert, nowhere near it. It's at the bottom of my passions when it comes to sports. I do love the postseason in the NHL, but I've talked to a couple of friends of mine who are into it.

I've looked at some of the gambling stuff. There's a lot of action on the Islanders in this series. So I like the Caps to win this series. A lot of people have predicted seven games. Barry didn't. I'll go with Barry that the Caps win this series in a shorter, you know, five, six game kind of a thing. All right, we're done for the day, back tomorrow.