The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Post Story

Episode Date: July 17, 2020

Kevin and Thom today recap The Washington Post story on the Redskins' sexual harassment culture. They also recapped Dan Snyder's statement and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

All right, we'll get started here momentarily. Quick word about Window Nation. Give them a shot if you've been thinking about new windows. If you've been thinking about a home renovation this summer, which includes new windows. You don't have to go anywhere else. It's no risk, too. You can call them up at 86690 Nation or go to Window Nation. Or go to Window Nation.com.

Mention my name and they'll give you a free in-home estimate or you can get that free estimate virtually online. They are celebrating their one millionth window installed. They've been installing Windows for years at a 99.5% accuracy rate. They're going to celebrate with you by offering you 50% off on all Windows styles with no down payment and no interest for 24 months. You don't have to make any payments for two full years. 50% off, no down payment, no payments for two full years with no interest attached, and a free in-home estimate. call them at 86690 Nation or go to windonation.com. Mention my name. Harley and Aaron are the two brothers that founded this company.

They still run this company. They're good friends. They will take good care of you. 86690 Nation or windonation.com. You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show.

Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. It's a sports fix Friday. It's a special podcast today. J.P. Finley was going to be our guest. I just think that this story is a story that I love having these conversations with Tommy. Tommy's going to do another day this week. He's got some vacation time coming up, so he's got to get some of these days in.

And I've got some vacation time coming up as well. I am supposed to take vacation next week, which I'm going to take vacation next week. It doesn't mean that we won't do a podcast if something big happens. What do you mean if something big happens? When something big happens? Well, with this franchise, I was thinking after yesterday's story, notice how I didn't refer to it as a bombshell story? More on that coming up.

After yesterday's story that maybe we'll get a quiet period here and then training camp all hell will break loose. I don't think they're going to have a new team name next week. Do you? The new team name is, I mean, that's funny. It's so five minutes ago, like I said in my column. It's so past history, you know, in terms of this team. But it's still so bizarre.

I think the team name is connected to the sexual harassment investigation. You do? I think the team, the part of the impact. for changing the name and when they did, part of the impetus was because they knew this was coming. It could be... And I think... I think they thought it could diffuse some of the pressure on Snyder within circles where pressure counts. So I think it's all connected.

The name is just too bizarre. just suddenly happen out of, I mean, to happen, all these companies get together, you know, at this moment, contacted by all these investment companies, to pressure the team, the team responds immediately, you know, in five minutes, they decide that they're going to get rid of the name. They don't have a new name yet. They're going into the season without any merchandise for this year under a new name. you know, all these, well, whoever has Redskins merchandise for sale now,

they're wondering what they're going to do with. The sponsors are wondering what's going to happen. So the team name is still such a bizarre thing. And I think it's all connected. I mean, the only thing that would make me think that the three minority owners is that this isn't something that's been in the works for a while, with respect to the story that came out yesterday, because that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to tie everything together.

Is in that story yesterday, there was, I'm paraphrasing here, because I don't, I've got the story open, I just can't find where this was written, but I'm based on my memory, is that they informed the team of this story and the allegations over the past week and asked for their comments and the team declined. Now that doesn't mean that they haven't known that the story's been in the works because clearly, you know, they've been talking to people like Alex Santos and Mitch Gershman and Larry Michael. And so it's gotten back to them that they've, that they're working on this story. So I understand that part of it. But they weren't really informed about the details of this story and asked to comment on it until I think the story said, you know, just over the last

week. And by the way, that's when the team fired the people that were involved in the story, that were still employed, which we'll get to all of that. But I just think they knew something was coming, and it was something that was surprise me, I guess, yeah. It was going to be a problem. And I just, all of this is just too coincidental. I mean, really, even for this team, what we've gone through in the past two weeks is just remarkable and can't be just coincidental. Well, and just for fans and even media members, I think when George Floyd was murdered, there was certainly a sense that this name thing would come back up. I mean, you had to be, you know, you had to be really disconnected from the climate to feel like this wasn't going to get swept up

into it, but I don't know that I would have predicted this result necessarily. Now, this story has been worked on clearly for a long period of time, I'm guessing. Probably pre-pandemic, I would say, that they've started. You tell me, how long does it take to put a story like this together? I don't know. I would say pre-pandemic it would start. I mean, you know, to interview 15 months. women. It's a minimum probably, it depends how many reporters are working on and one else they're

reporting on. It could take as long as when the pandemic started. How do you think a story like this gets started? Well, you know, it's something that you keep in your back pocket. Probably something somebody told someone at the post. One of these women, you know, told someone, somebody at the post a long time ago about this. And what they say in the business is you gather string. Basically, you say, okay, you know, that could be a story. At some point, I'm going to put it here. And then you gather more string because more similar things pop up that you hear about.

And then all of a sudden you say, okay, hey, look, and now, you know, this is worth pursuing. And also, I think the timing is there's no sports going on either. I mean, what else were sports writers going to occupy their time with? This is like the perfect time to basically undertake an investigative piece because there's no actual manpower going towards sports. That's a good point that I didn't think of this morning when I was discussing this is because we've said about a lot of things that this wouldn't have been nearly the story, if not for the pandemic or if not for this or that, and this new world that we're living

in. But with respect to sports, it's a good point. I mean, these guys have been just like, you know, you've been trying to figure out columns, you've been trying to figure out podcast topics. I've been trying to figure out radio and podcast topics, and you're going to, you're going to, you know, be, your creativity is going to move outside the world of, hey, who's playing tonight? Because you don't have that as an option. Right. I also think, Tommy, and tell me if I'm wrong, that, you know, the cheerleading scandal was a New York Times story. You know, that story was a New York Times story.

The Post and the Times are competitive entities. They're two massive newspapers. So, you know, the Post got beat on a big Redskins-D.C. DC-related provocative story and that, you know, they've perhaps been looking for an opportunity to strike big with a story of their own. I'm not saying that it drove it, but once they had, as you described them, a couple of pieces of information in strings that they could put, you know, they could attach. They're in a competitive environment. You know, Kevin, that happens all the time in the business.

It's not a bad thing. I mean, if you get beat on a story, then your first reaction should be, okay, what can we come back with? That's our own story on this. Right. You know, that's a normal reaction. That happens all the time. What's an angle that hasn't been covered in this story? You know, okay, we got beat.

Do we cry about it? Or do we pick ourselves up and come up with our story? You know, so that happens all the time into business. I can only imagine the pieces of information that people have been tucking away over the years, you know? I mean, look, I think about all the conversations we've had not on the air or on the podcast, which we wouldn't discuss because they would be irresponsible to discuss because we don't know them to be fact. We don't know them to be true. But these are the things that if you are thinking about, you know, a column down the road, you're tucking these things away saying, hmm, that's interesting.

And if you get another one, then you start to perhaps dig a little bit deeper, you know, if they're similar. And this franchise over a long period of time, there have been a lot of stories that we have all heard from, you know, an organization this. dysfunctional. And a lot of them... Have you heard... By the way, a lot of them haven't been true. Have you heard any similar stories about any other sports team in town? No. No. No. No. But to be fair, we've been much closer as a station to the football team than any other team.

Yeah, but I'm pretty close to the baseball team. Yes. You're very close to the baseball team. And there's a lot of dysfunction. goes on with the baseball team. But not the kind of dysfunction that happens at Ashburn. I mean, you know. You are very critical of the learners in the early days. Good God. You would drill them on our show.

I know. But it was all baseball business related. It wasn't this bizarre, you know, these weren't, it wasn't personal, it wasn't issues of humanity. How's that? Let me give you, so everybody now knows that the post story finally came out. I think we predicted, didn't we both predict that it would be out? I know I predicted it would be out late yesterday and we would have a chance to talk about it today.

I think you predicted the same, right? I don't remember. Of course you don't. So the story came out. Let me give you my, for the lack of a better description, high-level summary of it. Okay, it's what I initially thought, and after thinking about it, you know, it's my overall thought of this story. I'll start with this. You know, we know, and most of you out there know, that this organization is a loser and has been a loser.

We've known that for many years. We've known for many years about its dysfunction, about its incredible void of leadership. We've known and talked about for years now about how arrogant the people in the organization have been since Dan Snyder took over, not to mention about how many people in the organization have been incredibly limited intelligence-wise. These have been personal observations that all of us have dealt with and witnessed, including a lot of you fans, certainly you know what the record's been on the field. We know and we've witnessed these things over the years. Now we know, after this story, that the environment where all the losing and the dysfunction

and the arrogance and the lack of leadership existed also was allegedly, and in my view, more likely than not, a place that was hostile towards the women who worked there. The Post story didn't have one or two or three people alleging sexual. harassment and verbal abuse. They had 15 women, 15 who spoke to the post for the story. The post exposed an environment that allowed 15 women to be sexually harassed and verbally abused over a 14-year period. I know that 14 of the 15 women spoke on the condition of anonymity, in part because of NDAs. I bet there are a lot of other reasons they chose not to spoke that had nothing to with non-disclosure agreements.

But this organization is a mess. It's been a mess. And now after this story, if you didn't feel this way already, you can't believe that if Dan Snyder remains there, that this team is ever going to have any kind of success or be any kind of beacon NFL franchise. And by the way, Ron Rivera, nice man, good football coach, good luck. He and his wife and the conversations they've been having over the last month,

I would love to have been privy to just a couple of them, because there isn't a chance on God's green earth that the two of them haven't looked at each other at some point over the last month and a half and said, oh my God, we could have been in New York coaching the giants with old Dave Gettleman, who we used to work with, because this isn't what he was expecting. when he came in and said, we've got to have a culture change. I'm sure Joe Gibbs said the culture there isn't very good and it needs a change, but I don't know if he was expecting all of this. But I know a lot of people and I've seen a lot of reaction and I took a lot of calls, Tommy, this morning.

And there are a lot of things about this story that you can point to and say, these are allegations. No one at this point has filed any kind of sexual, harassment lawsuit. Dan Snyder in particular and Bruce Allen were not accused of anything or implicated of anything other than an environment that allowed this to happen. They fired everybody immediately that was still in the building that was going to be associated with this story. They've hired an attorney. Beth Wilkinson, as we said, I think yesterday at the end of the podcast. She worked with, among others, Hillary Clinton and Brett Kavanaugh. She's coming in to look at what

they're doing and establish new protocols. This will lead to a conversation about whether or not Dan Snyder can be forced out due to this story. But my heavy lean here is that based on a lot of context and a lot of understanding of what this organization's been and 15 women is that this stuff is an absolute indication of the environment that has existed out there. That's my high-level summary. There's a lot of detail that I'd like to get into, but I want yours. It's so good to see you standing next to me, you know? To see you standing right next to me when you said at that moment, basically, and I'm paraphrasing,

it really doesn't matter who coaches the team. It really doesn't matter who plays for the team. as long as Dan Snyder owns the team, they are always going to be an embarrassment. I've stood next to you on that for a while now. Okay. Okay. I don't think I've ever heard it so clear. I think I've made it really clear before.

I think I've always said that that's the betting favorite. But go ahead. So, listen, one of the reasons that only one of the reasons that only one woman, you know, put her name to it is, according to the post, part of it was this non-disclosure agreements. They asked the team if they would let these women out of these non-disclosure agreements, and the team refused. Right.

I'm wondering, I'm not quite sure what exactly Beth Wilkinson is going to be doing. Who's she going to be talking to? Is she going to be talking to any of these women? if that's the case, will the team let them out of their non-disclosure agreements to talk to the attorney that they hired? Is she going to be talking to the two guys who were fired and Larry Michael, who named in the story, who suddenly retired? Is the team going to force them to somehow talk to her? Because there's no reason for them to talk to her otherwise based on any kind of payments. any kind of severance payment?

And what incentive would they have to talk to her anyway to help out in an organization that they're no longer a part of? Unless they get pressured with, you know, the team threatens them would take it, would take away their severance payment or something like that. I'm not quite sure what this woman is going to do. I suggested in my calm, her job is to put a giant condom around Dan Snyder to make sure he doesn't get infected. with any of this stuff that's going on.

I mean, he, now let's make no mistake about it. It's not an independent investigation. She has a client, and that's Dan Snyder. Right. Yes, she's being brought in as someone there to investigate them, paid by them to investigate them. Yes.

Yeah. So, and like I said, I don't know how that investigation could proceed. Who's she going to talk to? Is she going to talk to the women? Are they going to talk to her? Are they going to be allowed to talk to her by the team? If that's the case, then can the post-publish their name? If that's the case, can, I mean, I just, and the NFL, God, the NFL.

Look, I think we'll get to this at some point, but let me just say, as I'm going about to talk about the NFL, I don't think Snyder's going anywhere. That said, the NFL, part of the reason is that the NFL has decided, well, we're not going to look into this. The team has spent a lot of money to hire Beth Wilkinson. Well, that's the first step. Their statement said that's the first step, and then they will, you know, step in and review that investigation. Right, right. I mean, and the NFL should be investigating this.

They should be conducting their own investigation. They have an investigative arm. They should be able to, they shouldn't be relying on a team finance investigation for making their decisions, unless they don't want to know what the answer is. If you don't really want to know what the answer is, you say, yeah, sure. Look, if the Redskins are doing everything they can to figure out what's wrong, as soon as they do that, we'll take that document, and we'll put it with the Ray Rice document and with the Deflate Gate document and with the Bounty Gate document.

You know, we've got a whole room full of these reports that we keep on Park Avenue. Okay, so move on from Beth Wilkinson for a moment. I get your point. What did you think of the story? I thought the story was good. I thought it was strong. I thought it was good. I tell you why, if I wrote it, I'd be celebrating.

I'd be celebrating right now. If the Times had that story and I wrote that story, I'd feel pretty good about it. But you had this bizarre atmosphere going on during a week where reporters and media members who had nothing. to do with the story were inflating its significance and impact. Well, and yesterday, after we had recorded the podcast, it got to a level that was just unbelievable. I mean, the hype that, Tommy, this thing got to a level yesterday that it didn't even come close to approaching earlier in the morning or the day before, certainly not.

not earlier in the week when the suggestion was there's going to be a big, big story, maybe a bigger story than the name. We had Sex Trafficking, Snyder involved in sex trafficking. We had him involved in drug and alcohol abuse. We had them as a part of sex parties in Ashburn. We had the Redskins paying referees $2 million to fix games. We had this story. We had the story of Jake Rudin and Capri Bibs.

involved with the same woman and that leading to Gruden benching bids for Byron Marshall who missed the block on the play that Alex Smith got hurt on. I mean, it was unbelievable. But that shouldn't be a surprise. I mean, given the age we're in.

I don't know. It got to the point where I had friends of mine... This is dark web behavior. Well, you haven't been on the dark web. So you don't know what the dark, you don't really, this isn't really dark web stuff. I'm not saying I have, but I have a friend that really knows what's on the dark web. And it's dark web behavior. Okay.

But I had, I mean, when I got done with the podcast yesterday and I did go play golf yesterday afternoon, I had just people calling and texting. And I'm like, is the story out? Is the story out? No, but have you read this? Have you read this thing? Oh, my God. Is this stuff true?

And I started reading stuff that people were sending me, and I was texting them back going, I would bet you that 80% of this is not true. Like, I didn't know, but it got so out of control. You texted me or emailed me earlier the Paul Farhe thing from the post today, where he was basically making sport of some of the people in this market that got carried away. and I'm sorry, I disagree with you on J.P. Finley. J.P. Finley, stop it. On Monday, JP, on Monday, sent out a tweet saying there might be a bigger story than the name story,

and that was it. Are you going to compare that to what we got over the last two days or three days? No, no, no. They're not comparable. That's not the way it goes, Kevin. That's not the way it works. In other words, I mean, you know, either you can't be a little bit pregnant. Once you jumped in the pool with a tweet like that, you're right there with the rest of them.

His tweet was barely even noticeable. Oh, Kevin, it was something. Maybe to you, to me, I'm thinking, oh, my God, what are you kidding me? You just, the only reason to post that is to say, I know something's coming, and I just want all my followers to know, I know something's coming. If you, if you compare that to everything else. sharing it to everything else. You are. You told me they're all lumped together. No, I'm judging it on its own. And on its own, it fits in with all the rest that promoted

a story that they had nothing to do with. I disagree with that. I think there's a big difference from what, you know, he tweeted out on Monday morning and what Jason Lockenford tweeted out on Tuesday night or Julie Donaldson or Channel 7 who got completely carried away, you know, on Tuesday night or Wednesday, what's today, Friday, Wednesday night and all day yesterday. I think it's completely different. And then the internet rumors that took off, we can't, I'll discount all the ones that didn't come from actual journalists. But I don't put those anywhere near in the same category because if that's true, we both said

on the podcast that there could be bigger news coming as well. We said it on the podcast, Kevin. Did you write it? Did you type it anywhere? What's the difference, seriously? There's a big difference. No, there isn't. I told you this yesterday.

No, there isn't. Well, I don't, look, I can't do anything about it if you don't understand that. I don't understand that. But there's a big difference between speaking something into existence. Because it's easier to reference? Because it's always there. when you write it. It's there to see. Speaking just disappears.

I mean, how many people go back and actually listen to audio? Tommy, no offense, but there are things that we've said on this podcast that no one will ever forget. And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but there are things that we've had and things that we've said that have been more impactful than you writing it in your column on our radio show for sure. So I don't... But, Kevin, it doesn't have a... a life. It doesn't have a life. Well, it is available to

always listen to it. It's always available. They can listen to this podcast 15 years from now, maybe. I know that, but that requires an effort where all you've got to do is just scroll Twitter and see that JP Finley said, you know, there's a story coming.

But you said there was a story coming too. And because you didn't write it... No, I did not. No, I did not. I tweeted when Larry I'm not talking about what you tweeted. I'm talking about what you said on the podcast. What I said is different.

Well, I don't see it. I don't see it that way. I can't help you. I don't know what to do. I know. I mean, I see it differently in the ability to access it quickly on the internet, scrolling, oh, that just popped up first because I can read it rather than having to go listen to it. But what your intent was wasn't any different than JPs.

What my intent was wasn't any different than JPs. any different than JPs. And it's totally different than the stuff that came after it. If you're a reporter and you tweet it out, that has an air of credibility to it. As opposed to saying it on a talk. Oh, my God. This is

Newspaper Man versus Dumb Radio Talk Show host discussion. It's pretentious. When somebody gets in trouble for something they say on the radio or a podcast, it's usually after somebody writes about what they say. All right. That, let me, let me, okay, that I understand that what we do is not journalism on radio or on a podcast. I understand that. I understand that J.P. and Jason Lockenforah and others in the market are reporters, you know, that are supposed to get it right and are supposed to perhaps have more information. But if our update anchor, which by the way is me on my show, it's everybody else a job.

does their show on 980. But as an update, as part of the update, if I had said on Monday, the names changed, the Redskins put out this statement, here it is, and, you know, just this could be the first of major stories involving the team this week. Why would that be any different than if I tweeted it? Kevin, again, you're not listening to me. When people get in trouble for what they say, it's usually because somebody writes something about what they said. There's people that get in trouble for what they say on the air, many times. But when they get in trouble is when somebody writes something about it. Not necessarily.

Oh, absolutely. The canceling begins when you put it down on paper or tablet or your phone or your computer. Okay, so I think I'm going to give this one last shot. I will concede the point that if it's written down, it somehow carries more weight. I don't know that I completely buy into that, but I'll concede that point. But that's really not what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about is what JP tweeted out on Monday is totally different than what got tweeted out the rest of the week. week. There were... But there are no degrees of wrongdoing here. It was wrong to do it. I don't think...

He was wrong, he was absolutely wrong to do it. And he was one of the first ones to do it. I think there are degrees. And I would disagree with you on that. And he never, and he didn't tweet or report another thing the rest of the week. Not one. And you had a lot of journalists that were much more incendiary in their comments. That's not a defense, Kevin, just because look at the guy next to me was a lot worse. That's not a defense. It is a defense. There are degrees here. They're total degrees here. Absolutely.

There are different degrees in actual crimes. But even though there might be different degrees, the crime remains the same. There might be different degrees of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, a, of, but. of, you know, burglary or assault, but it's still assault. And his maybe gets a little bit of a slap on the wrist, while others, I think, got completely carried away in the last few days leading up to this. And by the way, they ended up... But don't sit there, don't sit there and say, I don't belong with all these people.

Dan Snyder just put a statement out. Dan Snyder just put a statement out as we're sitting here. it's 1123 a.m. And that's exactly the time of the statement. Let me just read it. The statement from owner Dan Snyder, again, by the way, not on Redskins' letterhead. The behavior described in yesterday's Washington Post article has no place in our franchise or society. This story has strengthened my commitment to setting a new culture and standard for our team,

a process that began with the hiring of Coach Rivera earlier this year. Beth Wilkinson and her firm are empowered to do a full, unbiased investigation and make any and all-requisite recommendations. Upon completion of her work, we will institute new policies and procedures and strengthen our human resources infrastructure to not only avoid these issues in the future, but most importantly create a team culture that is respectful and inclusive of all. Okay. A couple of things. First blush. Number one, this story has strengthened my commitment to setting a new culture and standard for our team, a process that began with the hiring of Coach Rivera earlier this year. Translation, I'm not going anywhere, and I struck gold and admitted during that introductory, happy Thanksgiving press conference, that we had a culture problem. And remember, Tommy, he blamed it all on Bruce.

He implied that it was all Bruce's problem, and I hired the guy that's going to fix this. Now, I've been telling you that one of the reasons that I don't think Snyder is going to sell is, I think he believes, like a lot of fans believe, that Ron Rivera is the guy to finally change things. I think he believed that. The Happy Thanksgiving was all about killing Bruce in saying, look at how smart I am, and look at how great I am that I got Ron Rivera. And it's not my fault. Rivera here is what he's going to hang his hat on. This is where the new age begins, you know, with Ron Rivera. Tommy, he was...

This is where the winning starts. This is where the humanity begins. You know what? He was emboldened by that story yesterday because it did not implicate him. No one accused him. Certainly, the... culture. He is the owner. The culture and the tone in the organization was set by him. And there are a couple of quotes in that story that I want to read because they do speak to a lot of things

that we've heard over the years in terms of the way he treats people in that organization. But that story in this press statement, it was a win for him. It was a win for him, Tommy. because it said this and by the way he can say as he did in the introductory press conference we got to change the culture this guy Bruce Allen was bad all right we're changing the culture and I've got the new guy that's going to come in and change the culture it wasn't my fault it was Bruce's fault and that story for a lot of people who were expecting Dan Snyder to be attached to Jeffrey Epstein as an example he probably came to away looking better than most people thought he would?

Oh, I think you're right. Look, in my column, I pointed out two of the more high-profile situations involving owners in cases like this. One was the Carolina Panthers and Jerry Richardson, who was forced to sell, but there were at least four or five instances where Jerry Richardson was directly connected to sexual harassment claims and had to make payoffs in order them. So the owner was directly connected in that case to the charges of sexual harassment. I compared it to the Dallas Mavericks of around the same time, who also had charges

of sexual harassment by a number of employees. Mark Cuban was not implicated in any of them, but he was taking the task for allowing and creating an atmosphere for this to exist. Mark Cuban did not, was not forced out. I totally agree with that. Mark Cuban basically had to donate $10 million to various causes and make some new female minority hired as part of his mayaculp a coppa to this. I think this is much closer to the Mark Cuban situation and not anywhere near the Jerry Richardson situation, at least right now.

Yeah. This statement's really interesting to me. I totally agree with what you just said. This is a Cuban situation, not a Richardson situation. However, I would say as part of the larger context of the Skins organization and the past, the cheerleader scandal, which, you know, for all we know, they may have come to him and said, this shit happens again. you're done. We don't know that that wasn't said. We don't know that he didn't get, you know,

a stern talking to for that cheerleading scandal story, put in context of how dysfunctional and embarrassing this organization's been, which isn't what the Cuban organization was to the NBA. The desire that owners may have and Goodell may have to find a new owner for a franchise that's so important to the league because they don't trust Dan can turn it around. That would be the only thing I would say with respect to as a standalone, this is Cuban. But in a larger sense, if you put everything together, maybe it's more than Cuban. Well, again, I think we discussed this yesterday. you know, what we don't know is how embarrassed and how much value the NFL puts on having such a clown show in the nation's capital.

I think they put a lot of value on it. I think they're very upset by it. Then that could be a mitigating factor in this. That's what I'm saying. In terms of Snyder, is how much do they, I mean, the NFL spends a lot of money on lobby on Capitol Hill. They do a lot of business up there. And, you know, like I said yesterday, I'm sure they've heard a conversation from a senator or a congressman who said to their lobbyists, you know, what's the deal with this idiot you got running your football team here? I read stuff every day in the papers here about this guy.

I'm sure they've heard that. and how much of an impact is that. If he owned a team in Cincinnati, I don't think anyone would care that much. But he owns a team in Washington, D.C. Very important town. This statement from Snyder is, first of all, it's not enough. He's got to speak this time. I don't think he will, but he should.

In comparing it to Cuban, Cuban not only spoke, but was apologetic and promised reform and made donations to various organizations. And, you know, took responsibility even though he wasn't personally accused of being involved. And the owner in this statement didn't take any personal responsibility for this. The behavior described in yesterday's story has no place in our franchisor society. this story has strengthened my commitment to setting a new culture and standard for our team, a process that began with the hiring of Coach Rivera earlier this year. And then the rest of it is about, you know, Beth Wilkinson being an unbiased investigator,

coming in to fix all the policies and procedures. There's no apology here either, none. Very good point. Excellent point. But I think beyond that, I think when this strength, than my commitment to setting a new culture and standard for our team tells me he thinks this isn't going to get him, that he's not selling, that he was probably based on all of the things that maybe he thought could have been written, felt like yesterday was a win for

him personally, and now he's going to settle in with old Ron and be a part of, you know, another delusional thought that they can go do something great as a football organization. Has a guy who's only been with a team for... Never. Never. You know, games, the level of stature and responsibility and expectation that this guy has, this is unbelievable. He hasn't coached to play. I've never seen... You're right. He must go home with it to his wife every night and say,

can you believe this? You know, like I said, my call him, you know, who knows? By September, I may have a seat at the NFL owners meeting. You know, this press release is, again, I wonder what the hell these people, you know, how they continue to make mistake after mistake. I definitely would have thought from a PR standpoint today. He's got to have a response here.

There's got to be a response. But the response has to be, I know he's not comfortable in front of a podium and a microphone and a group of people. But you've got to have an acceptance of personal responsibility and you've got to have an apology. You know, people mocked me, including my good friend Chris Cooley, who said he doesn't need to apologize for the performance of this team over the last 20 years. years. And I said, that's not really the point. The point is, if he wants people to buy in at all to the next change is going to be a real change, he has to accept responsibility, personal responsibility for the failure, which he's never done. This is something I've talked about many times when it comes to this organization and this owner. It's always someone else's

fault. That introductory press conference of Ron Rivera, when he talked about culture, it was all about this has been Bruce's fault. And he believes that. And sorry, but when you're the owner of 21 years and you've had nine coaches and a lot of different gurus trying to help you out and it hasn't gotten done, it's your fault. At some point, you look in the mirror and say maybe it's me. He's He's not done that here. No. No, you're absolutely right. It's a very good call on the lack of an apology here and responsibility.

I mean, he just doesn't get it. And, you know, this is an example. Anyone in this business in the media business would have said to him, look, you know, just follow, look what Mark Cuban did. And you do that, you know? Just say, look, this is terrible. You know, I mean, I apologize for it. You know, but you know, if somebody told him that, he probably gave him his favorite line.

You don't know what you're talking about. Exactly. Yes. Exactly. Maybe the first one actually, maybe somebody had the balls to put in an apology and say, I take personal accountability. This is my franchise. I'm the owner.

This has happened under my watch, and I promise to do better. But no. Incredible. But, I mean, he's not, I don't think he's going to get, again, you know, we don't know what they think. We know what they think of him in the league. We have a general idea, but we don't know if they think that's damaging to the NFL in general. They felt that this organization's been damaging to them. This is a huge market opportunity.

They're doing terrible television ratings. They're not maximizing, you know, the revenue that they can generate from this market. They've got a fan base that's essentially disappeared. I mean, it's an incredible magic trick he's done over the last 20 years. He's taken a true waiting list and not only, well, that, that thing. went away 10 years ago, but the people that used to come, they're gone, and nobody's watching. I mean, relative to other teams they are, because it's the NFL. But anyway, so, you know, I think this story, there are a couple of parts of the story that I wanted to get to here,

and we'll do that here in a moment. Let me first tell you about Roman. If you were to guess on average how many days people in the U.S. have to wait to see a doctor. It's about a month in most major cities. That's why our friends at Roman have spent years building a digital platform that can connect you with a doctor licensed in your state all from the comfort of your home. Roman makes it convenient to get the treatment you need on your schedule. Just grab a phone or computer, complete a free online visit, and you'll hear back from a U.S. licensed physician within 24 hours. And if the doctor decides that treatment is right for you, Roman's pharmacy can ship your medication to you with free two-day shipping. You'll get free unlimited follow-ups with your doctor

anytime you want, and you can adjust your treatment plan as required as well. With Roman, no commitments required. You can cancel any time. If you're struggling with E-D, go to get-Roman.com, use my promo code Sheean, and you'll get a free online visit and free two-day shipping. That's promo code Sheean, S-H-E-H-E-H-A-N at Get-Roman. So I did want to go through this story a little bit because there are people mentioned in this story. One of the things that I did not want to talk about over the last couple of days because I didn't know what was in this story, but the one sense that I had that we talked about together is that it would be, you know, a culture piece and that, you know, the culture we know has been shitty.

You know, personal experience, a radio station working with the team. never has been very pleasant over the years. The allegations raised by Emily Applegate and 14 others on the condition of anonymity, and we talked a little bit about the non-disclosure agreements, that some signed. The Post didn't identify how many of those decided to not speak publicly, but on the condition of anonymity instead because of non-disclosure agreements. They just said some signed.

Tommy, in these particular cases, it's not always just because they signed a non-disclosure agreement. It's because they don't feel comfortable going public. They feel retribution. They feel, you know, and these are all natural responses. So my guess is of the other 14 women, some of them decided, I will tell you everything you know, but I don't want my name as a part of this story. But the thing is, though, the more people that publicly attach their name to, it, the safer haven the other people feel.

Right. So in this story, they talk about, basically, there's only one person, Redskins-related, that commented on this story, and it was Mitch Gershman, who was the former chief operating officer, and we'll get to him in a moment. But the story for those that actually... He apologized. Yes, he did. He's the one that apologized. Yeah, he did. So the allegations raised by these 15 women ran from 2006 to 2019, so a 14-year span. They detailed unwelcome overtures, comments of a sexual nature, the influence and the asking to wear revealing clothing and flirt with clients to close sales deals. and here were the people listed among the inner circle, and then you had the two scouts who were fired,

Mann and Santos from last weekend. And it starts with Larry, Michael, who is, as we know, the 16-year play-by-play voice and has been a senior VP in the company for many years and is considered one of the people part of Dan's inner circle. Seven former employees said that, Larry Michael routinely discussed the physical appearance of female colleagues in sexual and disparaging overtones. In 2018, Larry was caught on a hot mic. A hot mic, by the way, is you're in a

studio and you're having a conversation that you don't think anybody but the people that you are talking to in the studio can hear you, but the mic's actually hot and other people in other places can hear you. And oh, by the way, it's probably being recorded. Tommy and I will both attest to we've been told many times, be careful about what you're talking about. That's a hot mic. And most of the time, it really deals with language because you don't want bad language to go out over the air.

And Tommy uses horrific language. Not to mention he talks about people behind their backs all the time. Larry was caught on... Can you imagine the thing I say people behind their back considering the stuff I say out in public. Why did you just switch to speakerphone? I didn't. Your phone sounds different now.

It's not. It's the same. What did you do? I didn't do anything. Well, now you're back to it. Thank you. Stay right there. Larry was caught on a hot mic speaking about the attractiveness of a college-aged intern, according to six former employees who heard the recording. Larry declined to be interviewed for the story.

Alex Santos, he's a bute, as it turns out. He's been the club's director of pro personnel. He was accused by six former employees and two reporters who covered the team of making... One of them, a former Washington Times reporter. Yes, who covered the team of making inappropriate remarks about their bodies and asking them whether or not they were romantically interested in him. He was married, by the way. In 2019, Santos was the subject of an internal investigation after Riannon Walker, who is a reporter for the athletic, and Riannon's been on the radio show before, informed club management that Santos had pinched her and told her she had, quote, an ass like a wagon and repeatedly asked to date her. In 2019 at the Combine, Riannon Walker, new to the Redskins beat for the athletic, arrived at Prime 47, which by the way is in.

Indianapolis, a steakhouse in Indianapolis, to learn that Alex Santos, the club's scouting director, had been asking her reporting colleagues whether they thought she might be interested in him. She said, she told the post this. They tried to discourage him outside, outside of the ethical concerns Walker said. Her colleagues knew she was in a committed relationship and wouldn't ever date a married man, but Santos was undeterred. Santos approached her saying, she said, and the conversation started innocently. He showed her photos of his wife and young daughters on his phone. Walker recalled reading from notes,

she later provided to her company's lawyers describing the incident, that Santos told her that she had worn the effing out of her jeans the day before and asked whether she would date him if they were single. I told him that I do have a girlfriend and he does have a girlfriend, and he does have a wife, so we don't need to play hypotheticals here. I was pretty blunt. Santos kept attempting to flirt for several minutes and told Walker he would wear me down with his charm, she said. Then he pinched her on the hip in full view of other team employees and reporters.

Walker felt humiliated. She recalled, she was concerned some people who saw what had happened would think she had welcomed the attention. It felt pretty much like the worst thing in the world. he didn't care, he thought it was funny. Walker later filed a complaint with the team. In a statement, the Athletics supported her account and confirmed the company's attorney spoke with Redskins management about Walker's allegations.

There's more in here about Santos. Let me move on to the next one, which is Richard Mann, who is the assistant director of pro personnel, who in a text message obtained by the post, told a female employee, he and his colleagues debated whether her breasts had been surgically enhanced, and in another text message told another female employee to expect an inappropriate hug,

and then said, don't worry, that will be a stapler in my pocket. Nothing else. My God. One of the two people fired. Dennis Green, boy, he was a bute, huh? 17 years, one of Snyder's close confidants headed up sales. He was the guy that got fired amid the cheerleading scandal. He implored, according to this report,

female sales staff people, to wear low-cut blouses, tight skirts, and flirt with wealthy sweetholders, according to five former employees. And then there's Mitch. Mitch Gershman was the chief operating officer until 2015. He told Emily Applegate, he routinely berated her for trivial problems

such as printer malfunctions, while also complimenting her body. Two other former female employees supported Applegates account of her sexual harassment and verbal abuse by Gershman. Gershman's the one person that was on record responding to the allegations. He said it was the most, I'm sorry, here it is. I barely even remember who she is. I thought the Redskins was a great place to work. I would apologize to anyone who thought I was verbally abusive, closed quote.

That's it. That's the only apology we've heard. Yes. It was the most miserable experience of my life. Applegate said we all tolerated it because we knew if we complained, they reminded us that there were a thousand people out there who would take our job in a heartbeat. You see, this is what I always say, and I teach a lot of the kids at Georgetown who are going to wind up working for these teams in situations like this. Yeah. All professional sports teams, they bank on the idea that you have people who love sports so much,

they will do anything for a job in sports. So you can work them 15 hours a day, cane them peanuts, and in a case like this, treat them like less than a human, because there's a thousand others out there that would love to work for the Washington Reds. Yeah, it's not the only industry that has that. And I guarantee you there are plenty of people out there listening that have been in a work environment where superiors have said, if you don't like it, there are 500 people that would take your job in a heartbeat. But that's not unique.

Oh, no. What's unique about sports is for most of the low-level jobs in sports, I mean, they pay Kevin. They don't even pay when a taxi driver makes. I know. You're right. And that's because people are passionate about this job. Yes, I agree with that. I'm just saying that there are other, that's true. I'm just saying that there are other businesses where people have heard the same thing. I agree. By the way, you know, Bruce Allen wasn't implicated in this at all, but Emily Applegate did say that, quote, I would assume Bruce knew what I was going through. I'm paraphrasing there, because he sat 30 feet away from me and saw me sobbing at my death. desk several times a week. Close quote. By the way, I want to make sure one thing's very clear for those of you who have,

you know, a completely different perspective and worthy perspective, I'm sure. Tommy and I both understand, these are allegations. We both understand that there's been no lawsuit with respect to any of these harassment claims. Now, that doesn't mean that they won't file such claims with the EEOC or, you know, and, you know, I had an attorney and an employment attorney call me on the show today to suggest there's a possibility that some of these employees have beyond just the typical nondisclosure that you sign when you're hired, a second non-disclosure that could have been part of, you know, a quid pro quo. Like we will, you know, pay you or we will give you some sort of severance if you promise never to speak on, you know, what you brought to us, that that's a possibility. well. By the way, Julia Payne, who worked as the assistant press secretary in the Bill Clinton

administration, she was the VP of Communications for the team in 2003. She said, quote, I've never been in a more hostile, manipulative, passive, aggressive environment. And I worked in politics, closed quote. She said, quote, with such a toxic, mood-driven environment, and the owner behaving like he does, how could anyone think these women? would go to HR, close quote. There are two other things in this story I wanted to get to. Number one is this. They had one person in their HR department, one, who also had other responsibilities for an

organization that employed 220 people, both male and female. I can't believe that in the NFL during this climate, and I'm talking about the Me Too climate of the last five years, that these organizations didn't beef up their HR departments. That would have made a lot of sense. They certainly could afford it. And it would have been, you know, not doing it is pennywise pound foolish. But when you have one person who's also handling many other responsibilities, which by the way, I'm sure for a lot of these guys at own teams who have been successful entrepreneurs,

you think in terms of cost, you think in terms of people doing more than one job. You think in terms of there's no job description in this business. You come in, you work your ass off, you do whatever it takes to make the company work. I understand that mindset. I lived in it for 15 plus years. But this is a multi-billion dollar business. They could have afforded more, and there should have been more of an investment in HR. The NFL is a business that relies on image and public relations.

all the more reasons to invest in human resources because you don't want it to come and backfire on you like it has here. Yeah, no doubt. I have a quick word about Hawthorne. That's hawthorne with an e.c.o, not dot com. If smelling good is important to you, because Hawthorne smells really good. And getting Hawthorne Cologne is so easy.

First of all, you go to hawthorne.co and you take a quiz. It's such an interesting quiz. It's probably something that most of you have never thought about, and that is learning how your personal hygiene dictates the product that you should be buying. You know, what kind of facial skin you have or what your hair situation is or how often you shower or what kind of deodorant you use or what kind of body lotions you use. all of these things will add up in this quiz to a suggestion on products that you can purchase right from hawthorne.co or what kind of cologne you should be using they find out a little bit about your lifestyle too you know what do you drink when you go out or you're a smoker non-smoker what kind of work you do what kind of food you like all of that is a fun quiz to take anonymously and it'll lead to a decision related to cologne take the two-minute quiz and Hawthorne. It'll tell you the two clones that are best for you. It's totally risk-free,

and if you buy product, it comes with free shipping and free returns. Check out Hawthorne at hawthorne.co. That's Hawthorne with an e and dot-c-o, not dot com. Hawthorne.co, use my promo code, and my promo code on this one is Kevin D.C., K-V-I-N-D-C, and you'll get 10% off your first purchase. That's hawthorne.com.

use my promo code Kevin D.C. to get 10% off your first purchase. That's hawthorne.co. I wanted to mention one other thing as part of the story, and that is this part about Snyder that was hardly flattering. While Applegate and others did not accuse Snyder of acting improperly with women, they blamed him for an understaffed human resources department and what they viewed as a sophomoric culture of verbal abuse among top executives that they believed played role in how these executives treated their employees. Snyder routinely belittled top executives, according to three former members of his executive staff. Perhaps most intensely, Dennis Green, the former sales executive, whom Snyder mocked for having been a cheerleader in college.

After one executive staff meeting, according to one former employee, Green said Snyder ordered him to do cartwheels for their entertainment. This is something that a lot of us have heard over the years. And maybe many of you have as well, and that is how he treats people in business and how he treats people that work for him. You know, Tommy, I don't know if this is an old saying or not, but treat superstars like normal people,

normal people like superstars. his mode of operation was the opposite. I don't want to be overly accusatory when it comes to the way he treats employees because I've never worked for him even though his company Red Zebra owned the radio station. We never saw him. But we heard a lot of this over the years, a lot of this. Yeah, absolutely. I've known many people who have worked for the Redskins and left.

and it's full of stories of contempt for people by Snyder. He treat people with contempt. Yeah. That's what he did. All right. So the statement he put out earlier, the league had a statement that they're going to look into this after the team investigates it.

You know, Adam Schaefter and Darren Ravell are among the people weighing in that this is not going to cost him his franchise. I think is a standalone thing. We've discussed this. I don't think it'll cost him his team. I think there's a bigger picture here and certainly a pattern of embarrassment and poor behavior and certainly poor performance.

But I don't know that I think that this will cost him the franchise. In terms of Goodell putting it to a vote, you know, and trying to, you know, force him to sell. Do you feel the same way or not? I feel exactly the same way. What we don't know is the cumulative effect of all the embarrassments one after another. We know the cumulative effect on the fan base. We know the cumulative effect locally.

We don't know the impact of all of it on Park Avenue where the NFL headquarters are. I think it's reasonable to say that there may be more. stories like this to follow. I was going to ask you about that. Well, for one thing, other people may feel compelled to come forward and say what happened to them. That happens sometimes. Right. But he's got Ron on the case now, and Beth. So if there's... I feel so sorry for this guy. I know. I found this quote from Mark Cuban. the day after the accusations about the sexual harassment and the environment in Dallas.

This was his statement, the day after. I didn't know and I don't have an explanation. I can give you lots of reasons, but they don't matter. What matters is it was my responsibility and I have to be accountable for it, closed quote. That's how it should have been handled. Difference in ownership for sure. Yeah, I was interested as to whether or not you thought this was the tip of the iceberg.

I'll be honest with you. I thought it was going to include more. I know. I think a lot of people involved. Not the stuff I was reading on the Internet yesterday. I'm talking about the culture, and I thought there may have been some more names and more detail and more accusations in there. It's bad enough as it is. Yeah.

And only because we know some of the stories, and quite frankly, I'm kind of shocked that some names didn't appear in there. Me too. You want to name them? No. No, I don't want to name them. I don't want to name them. Me neither. But in a situation like this, I don't know if it's a tip of the iceberg, but again, I just wouldn't be.

And there'll be other news organizations that will be pursuing this story, like I said before. I'd be surprised at the New York Times that broke the true reader story isn't working on something similar. ESPN could be working on something with their investigative unit as well. So I think there'll be more stories related to something like this because I think there's a lot of ammunition. I think there is a lot of material out there. Yeah. All right. I think that's it. I think we've covered it. It's, there's going to be more news. There's probably going to be more stuff that'll go on next week. I hope it's a quiet week. We would love just one quiet week. And, you know, training camp starts in two weeks. A week and a half, I think, actually. Supposedly. We'll see. Yeah. That's it. We're done. Have a great safe weekend. Tommy, I'll talk to you next week. Thanks for jumping on.

Okay, boy, you too.