The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Process

Episode Date: March 6, 2024

Kevin and Thom today with a loaded menu of excellence. The opening segment included Dartmouth's basketball team unionizing, the "greatest NBA Finals game ever", college basketball losing popularity, the witness protection program, mafia "testimonial" dinner shenanigans by Thom, and more. Then, the boys talked about "the process" by which the Commanders will choose their next quarterback. They finished up with thoughts on RG3's defense of Russell Wilson and some Nats' spring training talk.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy is in studio with me today because he's heading to spring training tomorrow and he needed to pick up some cash on the way on some petty cash. Yes, because my plan is on Sunday,

the Nats go up to Fort Myers or something for one of their exhibition games. And I'm not making a trip to Fort Myers. Myers from West Palm Beach. Right. So I'm planning on going to Gulfstream Park on Sunday. Why wouldn't you? You know, and play some horses. So, yeah, I needed some extra money to pick up for that.

We take care of our employees here. Speaking of employees, did you see that Dartmouth basketball? They're unionizing at Dartmouth? Of all school. They don't even have school. They don't have scholarships. But the thing is, they are generally, they're a conservative school, not just an Ivy League school, but Dartmouth is considered conservatives.

No. A lot of conservatives have come from. I don't think Hanover, New Hampshire is very conservative. Really? Yes. First of all, I don't think any of the Ivy League schools are conservative. Dartmouth is considered conservative. These are bastions of progressive things.

Dartmouth is not that. Look it up. Well, my best friend in high school, one of my best friends in high school, went to Dartmouth, played football at Dartmouth. The whole family were Dartmouth people. And I will ask him. I will ask him, I don't think, I would bet, you're just saying it's more conservative compared to the other Ivy League schools? Compared to schools, period.

Colleges. There's not many conservative colleges out there. I would say Liberty University might be conservative. Did you see they just got hit with a big fine for lying about crime on campus? I didn't. After towning about how safe they were? I did not. Yeah. $14 million fine.

So they actually do have a crime problem. Yes. So they were lying about having a crime problem when crime is a big cause for the conservatives in this upcoming election, the crime in our major cities. We have so much to talk about today, but I don't know how much it will be about what people want to hear about. We will not go down the path of discussing the contingency plans in the event of disasters in pro sports leagues. We did we had yesterday, Tommy, and I read it yesterday. Let me see if I can find it. It was Stephen who wrote something like, oh, Jesus, where is it?

He basically wrote something like, whatever you guys did in those last 15 minutes of the show, don't do again. But I had a lot of tweets and emails from people who were fascinated with the conversation like I was. You know, be curious, not judgmental. See, that's your problem. Be curious, not judgmental. You know, it's right before Curious in the Alphabet, Clueless. I think that is a Ted Lassow from a Walt Whitman poem. That's his line.

Speaking of Walt Whitman, do you like the way I'm rolling here? Walt Whitman, my alma mater, the high school. The high school in Montgomery County. They beat BCC our longtime arch rivals. Churchill was a big rival as well. last night to advance to the state quarter finals. They play Laurel at Whitman Friday night, 7 o'clock. It was a sold-out crowd.

I could not go last night. I don't know if I'm going to be able to go on Friday night. I hope I will. But Chris Lund has been the coach there for coming up coach, Chris Lund, on 20 years. I think it's 20 years. He has always been one of the best high school basketball coaches. in the area, certainly one of the best in public schools. And he's led Whitman to the, you know, to XFinity Center three different times, I believe,

and they're really good again this year. So a good win for Whitman last night, 5954 over BCC, and they get Laurel in the state quarters on Friday night at Whitman. Looking forward to that. Can I mention something? Go vikes. Yes. Can I mention something? Just a little bit of research on the go here.

Yeah. From 1920 to 1960, Dartmouth students unilaterally supported the Republican candidate in each presidential election. Okay. What about since 1960? Okay. During the 60s, during a Vietnam War, things started to change a little bit. Yeah, as it did everywhere in the gun. But back in the 1980s, it went back to being a conservative bastion again.

Really? Yes. So they were Reagan backers in the, Reagan turned them around in the 80s? Yep, it looks that way. Hmm. Okay. The 1980s, was a period of increased conservatism across the United States and seemingly at Harvard as well.

Harvard or Dartmouth? Dartmouth, I mean. It was the creation of the conservative publication that Dartmouth Review that started in the 80s. Okay. Well, I mean, we saw an increase in conservatism across this country everywhere. I know that, but for most of its existence, it was a conservative school. I didn't realize that. How about that?

That is a fun fact to know him. tell. I know this is hard to believe. Well, I actually, my very good friend from Whitman, all right, my good friend, Doug Care, who was one of my best friends growing up from first grade on, went to Dartmouth. A very good friend of mine from high school and grade school, Lisa Baldess is a professor at Dartmouth right now. Walt Whitman as well. She went to Princeton. Doug went to Dartmouth. I went to Maryland. But they were very good friends of mine. The whole point was, I know what the point was.

It was conservative. It was unionizing in a conservative environment. Of all schools, it's kind of unique that it's happening there. Yeah. I will be interested to see. This was actually a significant story. I have not delved into the details of how this whole thing will play out. I'm sure there's some really good business reporters.

Maybe John Orand would have a good take on this or some of the other guys we've had on from Sportico and other places. but when you unionize as a student, you become an employee. First of all, I'm winging it here. I don't know if I'm way off here. There are students on college campuses that are part of unions because they're working on college campuses, right? Like there would be, if you work at a college campus as a custodial person or as a dining hall, you know, server. A lot of those places are unionized, aren't they? I don't know. I don't really know. Now you're driving down the road, I can't help you with.

But how do, why wouldn't you as a school rather than pay these union employees and get into a negotiation with a union, why wouldn't you just say to hell with the basketball program? I agree. I think, I think more schools are going to start saying that. As we see things sort of fall apart within the scholastic athletic system of this country. I think you'll see more schools do that. The big schools, no. And then if there are, now, Ivy League's a bad example, right? Because it's non-scholarship.

Right. one power five program, if they unionize and they negotiate, you know, a wage scale for their services and other things like vacation time and hours and the whole thing, do they cease to be eligible for room board and tuition? Because I would say, we're paying you. That would have to be part of a negotiation. Yeah, I guess. You know, maybe, maybe it's a way to control the NILs through union negotiations. Oh, well, the schools won't like that. Because they'll be recruiting disadvantages.

If you end up with unions controlling the NIL, which is what you're describing. Yes. There will be some unions that are going to be good at it and others that won't. And the school's programs are going to say, wait a minute. I want to see the whole thing collapse. The whole kitten caboodle just collapse. The show, as always, is presented by Windon Nation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com.

mention my name. You'll get a free in-home estimate. You know, I had Jerry Palm on the radio show today. You know, he's the longtime CBS sports bracketologist, college basketball writer. And Denton, my producer, booked him because Denton's really into college basketball. And he knows that I've always been into college basketball. Right. Man, I have never been less into college basketball than I am right now.

and I have this sense, part of it is being influenced by Maryland not being very good. It was a rough year. I understand that. But part of it, too, is Caitlin Clark has taken college basketball by Storm. She's the biggest story in college basketball and has been. Yes. It's very possible that some of the women's tournament games with Iowa are going to be higher rated than the NCAA men's tournament games. I would guess, because I've seen some of the numbers just in general during the regular season,

They have outrated other games that were men's games. And then, you know, clearly this has been building, but my God, this particular NFL off season, you'd think that the draft was tomorrow. Yeah. You know, on Friday. I mean, we're talking, what, eight weeks away? 50 days. Yeah.

Unbelievable. It's incredible. And now with free agencies starting next week, you know, and by the way, all, you know, the just, the names that are out there for trades, the quarterback thing. especially this year, is so intense. Part of it, what's playing into it, is you have three highly rated quarterbacks, and the perception is three teams that want quarterbacks

at first, second. No doubt, no doubt. You know, so, I mean, it really accentuates the interest, and quarterback is the most dramatic, colorful, most important position on the field, so it's going to generate the most interests. But back to what started this conversation, college basketball,

I do think that NIL and the Transfer Portal have completely diminished interest in college sports. Now, I think college football is a different animal altogether. It's just such a way of life. It's so much part of the bloodstream in the South Midwest. I don't know that the Transfer Portal and NIL are going to ruin college football, although, you know, the conference reshuffling certainly makes it difficult to follow. and hard for people to really stomach, you know, long-time fans. But, man, college basketball, the roster turnover is so significant year in and year out.

You get attached for one season to a player, and then he's, you know, an unrestricted free agent and leaves you after you paid him a million bucks the year before. Well, look, we're already talking about Cooper Flagg as being an NBA player, and he hasn't even entered college yet. Yeah. Not to mention the – so I do think that college hoops is really diminishing in importance. And it'll be interesting to see how the tournament does this particular march, because there aren't major stars in the sport. There isn't somebody that you point to, like Zion Williamson, you know, a few years ago.

I guess the only one really would be Zach – Zach Edie. Yeah, Purdue. From Purdue. I think that's the most recognizable. And actually the Purdue team, because they have similar players in the fact that they lost to a 16 seed last year. similar to what Virginia did and they came back and won the title is an interesting story. But I think the other part of this, too, is, you know, Caleb Williams is going to be drafted, number one overall. He's going to get this, you know, salary wage scale contract.

And it's going to not look that much different than what he's earned in the last couple of years at Southern Cal. And so you're going to have these players that are going to be much more savvy when it comes. to finance coming into the league. Absolutely. And I think some of the pushback on the combine, Mike Jones was on with me. I think it was Mike Jones earlier in the week that said this to me. He said, I said, so what's your big takeaway from the combine? And he said, my big takeaway from the combine is that I don't know how much longer it's

going to be around. Because players, you know, and I added that these players now have more ability to say no to things because they've already earned several millions of dollars. And so not working out, not measuring, not throwing, not showing up. Marvin Harrison Jr. didn't even show up. And the, now, it's not going away because it's such a massive television show now for the NFL network and for ESPN. But it's changing.

But anyway, yeah, college sports and, it's. is different. And I know you hate this, but man, like last night, you know, I was flipping back and forth. I did watch Purdue, Illinois, which was a very, very good college basketball game. But I was also drawn to this incredible Cleveland comeback against Boston. You know, it literally, the win probability for the Celtics up 22 in the fourth quarter was 99.9%. The Cavs actually sat starters, including Donovan Mitchell. And this kid, Dean Wade, who played at K. state. I didn't even know he was in the league, to be honest with you. He's been a nothing player for Cleveland, had five threes in the fourth quarter and led him from 22 down to a

105-104 win. You know who was in the crowd for that game? I do. The Kelsey brothers. The Kelsey brothers were there in Cleveland. They're from there. Yeah, they're Ohio kids. Yeah. And they were going nuts. Yeah. You wanted to talk about Kelsey's retired, but we never got to it. But I was going to mention real quickly. Jason. Jason. Statenham got fouled on a game, was a game winning attempt with like 0.4, 0.6 seconds left, and replay overturned it. And it was, I did not like the call at all. I thought the call had to stand.

There was contact with his chest from the defender. But man, they've been overturning a lot of calls. I know you watch a lot of NBA too. they've been overturning a lot of calls. I did tell you the other day, right, that LeBron's playing at a level that's outrageous. Well, again, it's easier than ever for 39-year-old men to play basketball in the end of the day.

And you know who came up big last night as I move around here a lot? Who? Bradley Beale was huge in overtime for Phoenix and Denver. I watched that too. He had his moments here in Washington. He did. He did. He's a very good.

good player. He's a very good player, but he's exactly where he needs to be. Yes, he is. He's the third best offensive player on that team when they have everything. You know what? Phoenix better do something because Kevin Durant has all but disappeared from the conversation. Period. I don't think so.

Oh, I think he has. Maybe among the little circle of people that you've managed to find who actually watch the NBA still. Yeah. Yeah. But I think you know, we talk about LeBron, we talk about Curry, we talk about The kid from Indiana, what's his name?

Yokech, Caliburton. Yeah. I mean. No, Kevin Durant's still considered one of the absolute best. Yeah, but you have to stop and say, oh, okay, Kevin Durant. It doesn't roll off your tongue anymore. He's going to go down as a top 15th ratings of all time. Of course he is.

Yes. Okay, just making sure that you weren't about to say that Willis Reed is going to be ranked down. I'm not saying where he belongs status-wise. I'm saying he has no, he has, his profile has, shrunk. Yeah, I mean, you know what's so interesting about his career is, you know, he couldn't beat Golden State so he joined him. Right.

Won a couple of titles there with Curry and with Draymond and with Thompson, with Clay. And the narrative about him is he had something to prove when he left there, you know, and went to Brooklyn because he just jumped on an already existing championship team. But the truth is he was probably the best player on that team during those championship seasons. But still, he went to Brooklyn and was a toenail away from being in the NBA finals and potentially winning the whole thing. But that was not a three-pointer at the end in game seven. They ended up losing that game in overtime. And then the whole, you know, it was the debacle of Kyrie and him and Hardin and everything else.

and now he's in Phoenix. It should be a good situation, but God, the West is so low. The West is so stacked. So, see? You want to keep talking NBA here? You know what Phoenix doesn't have? What? The slow fat white guy.

Alvin Adams? They don't have the slow fat white guy. Like Yokic? Yeah. That's what you need today because players have evolved so much. Their bodies, they're so strong, they're so quick. You know, the athletes are so great physically. You need that slow fat white guy to,

slow them down. Paul Westfall played for the Sons. Yes, he did. He started with the Celtics. Then he went to the Sons and really was great there. And that 76 Final against the Celtics. It was phenomenal.

Was it the Van Arsdale twins or brothers that were in the back court with Westfall? One of them? No, I don't think so. I think they were out of the league by then. Were they? I mean, they were traded. They started playing in the 60s. Maybe they were still around then.

They used to play for the Knicks at one point. I thought that they, I thought they were with the sons, because that's the year after, Tommy, the bullets lost the first championship series that I really remember. They got swept by Golden State. Yeah. And Rick Barry. Yeah.

But that Phoenix team with Gar Hurd. Gar Hurd had the shot. The shot. Triple overtime. It's one of the great Brent Musburger calls. of all time. It's one of the greatest finals games in all time. Yes. It was tremendous. It was tremendous. And Alvin Adams.

But one time I'm at a Wizards game, this is a 96 maybe. Okay. Dick Van Arsdale was on that team. Was he really? Okay. The other brother was Tom. Yeah. Just like the Smothers brothers. Alvin. So Ricky Sobers, who by the way, ended up playing with the bullets at one point, Paul Westfall, Gar-Hard, Curtis Perry, Alvin Adams. the center. They were the starters. Van Arsdale played 35 minutes. And by the way, Tommy, in basketball reference, they refer to game five of that series as the greatest game ever played.

It sure felt like it when we were watching it. And I saw a lot of great Knicks games over the years, but that was just unbelievable. And so to continue, I'm at a Wizards game in 96. I think they were to bullets still then. They would have been. Okay. At the cap center. And I'm at the press table and there's a big guy sitting next to me and I didn't know who he was but we got talking and it turns out he's Gar heard.

You know he was scouting for somebody and I craft his arm. I said, you made the shot! You did. That's the all-time shot. It was. It was. For people that don't remember this game, just summarizing

it real quickly, a triple overtime game five of the NBA finals with the series deadlocked at two games apiece in the Boston Garden, where just it seemed like all hell broke loose multiple times during the end of regulation. The Boston Garden back then was a hundred degrees. 100 degrees. And by the way, it's court storming conversations. The Boston Garden floor got stormed all the time in the postseason.

Was that the game, though, that one of the referees got smacked in the head, got. got punched in the face. Like Mendi Rudolph, is that the name? I don't recall that. I know Mendi Rudolph, but I don't recall if that happened in the game. But anyway, at the end of the second overtime, there was a situation. I may get this wrong, but it's back then, if you called a timeout that you didn't have, it was a technical foul on you.

The other team got one free throw, but you kept the ball and you could advance it. They didn't advance it to three quarters of the court. They advanced it to half court back then in the NBA. So down one with the ball but needing to go the length of the court, whoever the coach was, who was the coach for Phoenix? Scotty. Scotty. I'll look this up.

Hold on. I just had it up. Scotty something. I'll forget in his name. I'll find it in a moment. Okay. The coach called a time out to take the time. technical foul. And the reason he did it was because one free throw was all they shot so that

worst case they'd be down by two Tommy, but they would get to advance the ball to half court. They'd get the benefit. Yes. You think about some of these rules that they eventually figured out there were loopholes, which in essence, breaking the rule benefited your team. So they took the time out. Boston made the time out. Boston made the free throw to go up by two, but Phoenix advanced the ball to half court, and they threw it into Gar Hurd, because there's one second to go. There were no tenths of seconds on the clock back then, and he turned and he fired about a 30-footer. Arc, big, big arc, and it went in, and Musburger, I'll play the call. I'll find it and

play the call at the end of this show, so you guys can listen to the Musburger call. He's going nuts, and it goes to a third overtime, but the Celtics won the game in the, in the, in the That was a Havelacek championship, I might point out. Cowens. Cowens, Habletcheck. Jojo White. That was, that was, I think they won in 74, too, didn't they? Would 74 be the year that they beat Jabbar, beat Alcindar, beat Alcindar with Milwaukee?

Yeah, but yeah, that's 76. John McLeod was the coach. John McLeod. He was a longtime coach. Yes, he was. In the NBA. That is a game, you know, I, I, I was mentioning in the conversation about court storming, because I don't think we talked about this together.

I'm over it. Like, just stop it. It's unsafe. I don't care that students go to games so that they can storm the court, go to the games and be loud and impact the games that way. I'm over it. But, man, the field stormings and the court stormings in the 70s were a regular occurrence, and the goalposts would get torn down and baskets would get torn down. It was much less safe back then.

And it happened at the professional level all the time. I'm going to tell you what changed it. It was the 1980 World Series, the Phillies and the Royals. The Phillies were about to clinch the World Series in Philadelphia. And in the seventh or eighth inning, they brought out police on horseback. I kind of remember that. And lined the field. And in between the horses and the policemen were policemen with dogs.

And they lined the field as well. And that was in response to keeping. the Philly fans who obviously are nuts in the stands and it worked and there were some I remember Dick Young who was a sports writer in New York and grew conservative over the years he was more happy with the fact that

with the law and order display than he was with the World Series but that changed things that changed the whole other teams started to put police on the field before the game ended or I don't know how they did it in arenas. But I know that's a watershed moment in changing the idea of rushing the field like people used to.

Yeah, because it happened all the time. Now, one of the examples I brought up was the 84 NBA finals, Lakers against, it was the Magic Bird first matchup in the finals. You go watch Game 7 at the end of that thing, and birds like elbowing and almost punching people to get off the floor. It happened all the time in courts in arenas, but professionally it really got dialed back and it's become much more in this century anyway, a college thing, not a pro thing. Do you hear what Jay Billis wants to do? No.

He wants to, once you get all the kids on the court, then you line the court with the police, don't let any kids leave and then arrest them all. That's not a Billis-like take, actually. No, it's not. I mean, that sounds more of a Dartmouth kind of. That's a Dick Young take right there. Yeah. All right. So I, with Tommy in studio, we were just reading a bunch of emails.

And usually I do that right before the show and we pick a few out to read. But there's some good ones here today. So I'm going to read this one from Riyadh. That's the name of the person. It's not from Saudi Arabia. Dear Kevin, I've been a devoted listener and I discovered you and Tom on 980 years ago. being a die-hard skins fan from Florida, you've made following my favorite team easy. I also now know way more about the Caps, Wizards, and Terps basketball than anybody needs.

Really? The Caps? I listen to your show every night before bed, and now I'm trying ASMR on the weekends. Anyway, no days off. Can we do seven days? The people need you. No. Tommy would unionize if I started to talk about seven games.

So we can't do that. This from BP Heavenbound. I've rated and reviewed five stars always. Tuesdays and Thursdays are Can't Miss with Tommy. On a recent Florida trip with my wife to our favorite karaoke bar, I got to see Tommy Purify. When I asked my wife if she knew who that was performing, her guess was Ernest Hemingway?

I've got to weigh in on Florida's karaoke gate. Kev, you're right. This is a moral victory for Tom, but we need to connect the dots regarding Sammy Panama and Watusi Records. I think he's saying it's a moral victory because you didn't get suckered into paying the $1,000. Old Sammy probably is in the witness protection program. And when he found out that Tommy Purify was really Laverro, the reporter who steals seating charts from secret mob meetings, Sammy Panama went running,

as he probably should have. Leveros feared and loved. Great show. And then he says too much Terps basketball. And at the same time, not enough Terps basketball. Talk to your people and make sure the commanders take Jane Daniels at number two.

Wright's BP Heavenbound. Yeah, Tommy, it was, I remember the crime family name, the Buffaloinos. Russell Buffalo. Am I right? Yeah, it was a testimonial dinner to him in Wilkeshire. And filled with mobsters, judged politicians. And as soon as they went in the room, I pulled the seating charts off the tables and ran

out the door and never looked back. No. And you reported on the big testimonial dinner. Yeah. Do you think they were upset that you had so much information about who was there? I think maybe they got word, you know, because I told you a year later, there was a thing called the Pennsylvania Crime Commission. It was like the state investigatory commission into organized crime.

And they had hearings a year later about crime in the state. And I was covering the hearings. And one of the agents walked up to me. And he said, you're the guy who went running out of that hotel room with the charts under your arm, aren't you? Really? I said, how do you know? He said, we were in a van across the street taking pictures of people going in.

Oh. Wow. That's pretty funny. Yeah. You must have been nervous. Oh, well, again, it was once I did it, I did it in almost all one move. I went down the tables, ripped the shorts off, stuck them under my arm, went out the door, and I guess I still had a little bit of speed left at that.

I didn't even look to see everyone was chasing me. I had a run a block to my car. I just ran as fast as I could. and I got away with it. It'd be funny if like, you know, the guy that handles Sammy Panama is part of the witness protection program. So you know the guy that you want to sign,

that you want to dupe is Levero. I mean, he brought down the Buffolino group. Anyway, rate us and review us if you get a chance. Five stars. If you see fit on Apple and a quick one to two sentence review, it's always a big help for us. subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Spotify and Apple. It's really easy to do on Apple on your iPhone.

It's a plus sign in the upper right-hand corner. And then on Spotify, it's down the left-hand side of the screen. By the way, if you want to find out more about the Buffolino family, watch the Irishman. Long movie, but very good. Yeah. You can find out more. And there's several books about them, including one called The Quiet. at dawn written by a friend of mine.

You know what was on last night in between after the basketball ended up the Purdue Illinois game? I love this movie and every time it's on I get sucked into it. The town is a really good movie. Jeremy Renner is unbelievable. Yeah.

Yeah, playing Coughlin. Yeah. Ben Affleck's great. Yes, he is. And John Hamm is excellent in that movie. Yeah. That movie is so good. And it's based on a true story. About that Charlestown crew.

It is based on something close to. Well, you say based on a true story. There's creative liberties always. Ben Affleck directed that movie, too. I think it was one of the first. I think he directed that movie and then he directed Argo. Didn't he direct Argo also? I don't know if he did.

Because Affleck now is a really accomplished director. Well, they directed, I think he, did he direct the Michael Jordan movie, Air? he was in it him and Matt and Matt he was a producer because it was him and Matt Damon their production company that did it

I don't know if he directed it or not I want to see if there's a list of the movies there's got to be a list of movies he's directed yeah I'm not finding it very easily um is he still is he married to Jaylo? I think so why am I blanking

or is it Jennifer Garner? No J-Lo it's J-Lo it's J-Lo yeah yeah um anyway That's what I ended up falling. I didn't fall asleep to it. No, he directed air.

He directed air. Yes. So what are the movie, am I right that he directed Argo? Yes, he did. Yeah. He directed Argo. So. What other movies?

Because he really has become now a very accomplice. Gone, Baby Gone. Oh, yeah. Very good movie. Yeah. Gone baby Gone. He directed. You know, he was in a movie that may have been the worst movie I've ever seen.

What? It was William Defoe was at it. It was kind of like a spy thriller, and I can't find the name of it. I don't know if he directed. If he directed it, it does not, it basically wipes out all the good movies he directed. It's that bad. I think it got a 6% on Rotten Tomatoes or whatever to measure. I'll try to find the name of it at some point.

He's currently married to Jennifer Lopez. Yes. he was married to Jennifer Garner for 14 years, and they had a child together. There you go. A couple of kids from Boston. A couple of kids from Boston. I'm and Matt Damon. Goodwill hunting.

Yes. Right? Elliot Smith, the soundtrack for that movie. Incredible. Yes. All right. What else? What else?

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The process of picking personnel for this football team. Okay, go ahead, shoot. I'm all ears. And let's limit it to the quarterback discussion. Okay. Okay. We have discussed different avenues that they could take for quarterback. You know, they could sign one of a free agent.

I try to sign for Kirk Cousins or another free agent. They could draft a quarterback, hang on to the same. pick in the draft, or they could trade back, you know, and maybe pick a quarterback later in the draft and sign a lesser free agent that would be, you know, like a Jacoby percent or somebody like that. Right. But let me ask you this, and we've talked about this many times before this team was ever owned by Josh Harris and company.

Who should make that decision? Well, I think Adam Peters has the final say on the decision. This is what I'm getting at. Okay. You can have all the consensus building, all the inclusion, you know, all the voices you want. But you can't have a decision that is against what the general manager wants. Am I right? No.

You can? No. Why wouldn't you be able to have a differing opinion from the general manager? You can have a different opinion, but the decision cannot be different than what the general manager wants. The general manager. Well, there can only be one decision ultimately. Yes. You're saying that if Martin Mayhew or Lance Newmark.

I'm saying if the owner, I'm saying if the owner, after listening to all the voices. Oh, if the owner. If they're listening to the various consultants and everybody else they have. Stop with the consultants. The consultants are out of the picture now. Oh, really? Yeah. So Bob Myers is no longer.

involved? Well, Bob Myers was involved in some of those interviews like Josh Harris was as an observer and perhaps as an advisor, maybe he's still involved. I wouldn't mind if Bob Myers were still involved. But you don't want Bob Myers picking the quarterback. No, and he's not going to. Okay. But what I'm saying is you can include all the voices you want. But if Adam Peter says, I want this guy, that's the guy they have thick. Right. Is that right? Yes. Okay. You're on the record like that. Yes. That's all I wanted to make clear. I just wanted to get that on the record. Why?

Because it seems like there's a situation with a lot of voices that they could get garbled. They could get mixed up. People may not hear the general manager in training, you know, in the corner of the room. You know? Wait a minute. Is Adam here? We're about to go to the window with our pick. So I just wanted to make it clear that.

And I'm all for everybody having a voice listening to all different opinions and stuff. But ultimately, the opinion that matters the most is the general manager. You're getting at, I don't know why you want me on the record for this. It doesn't mean that I can't down the road if it's reported that Josh Harris came in like Snyder did and hijacked the pick, be upset about it. I'm not talking about hijacking the pick. Yeah. I'm saying maybe there was a consensus, a group of people like that include, Cliff Kingsbury, let's say.

That decided that there was more momentum for this other candidate than the one the general manager wants. I was saying that doesn't matter. The general manager's guy has to be the guy. Yes, I think it is. In this organization right now, I think it's been

made very clear, by the way, by Dan Quinn recently, who said the final say is Adam Peters on the roster. Okay. Coaching the team and the decisions with respect to coaching the team, is my decision. Yes.

That's the way it should work. That's the way it should work. I mean, it doesn't always work that way, and it can be successful in different ways, but that's the way it's going to work here for now. You want, see, in San Francisco, when they trade it up for Trey Lance, I would bet you that that was, I don't know what this structure is. John Lynch is a general manager, but he really relies on his talent evaluators, and Kyle Shanahan's a big part of at least the quarterback conversation.

But I would bet you that that organization was all over the place with opinions on Trey Lans. Well, I would think so. But I would think it's pretty clear in that decision. In that organization, Kyle Shattahan has the final decision. Certainly on quarterback. Yeah, I would think that basically John Lynch is still literally a general manager in training. Right. But what are you getting at?

You want to continue to criticize this many cooks in the kitchen situation. No. Well, okay. And that was, my point always was, it really didn't matter who else had an opinion. Right. The only opinion that really mattered was dance. Was, was for the coach, to hire the coach, to me, should have been a general manager. Adam Peters.

That should have been if Adam Peters decision. Right. We have no indication that it wasn't. Right. At this point. I'm just saying that's the, the process can work with all kinds of voices. One voice matters the most. The process.

Is this a column coming up? No, no, no, no. I'm writing baseball for the next week. I'm going to spring training, buddy. But you really have had this thing, you know, this, you've had this thing where you've just been, and I know what it is with you because I have gotten to know you pretty well over the years. It's this anti-rich guy thing, basically. Yeah, that's what it is.

That's not it. It's very much a, these people have a lot of money. but they're just, they want to appear so smart with the process and with the search committee. You'll need a lot of money to try to want to look smart. I don't have, I mean, I'm in benefit of the doubt, Kev mode, but I don't have much of an issue about the way anything's going down. I know. What's interesting, though, you may have said this to me the other day, and it may not have been on the air.

You know, this is the first time in the first off season, all of these people are working with one another. Did you say this to me? Yes, I did. I said, yeah, I said, you know, they haven't been working together that long. Right. So, so there will be a process. Yes. Of figuring out, you know, what does Adam Peters really want when he says, I want tape on these different things, or I want an evaluation this way? You know, you have a bunch of people that are going to be working together here for the first time together. Now, they, Mayhew and Adam Peters work together. Newmark and Mayhew work together. I'm talking about the general managers, you know, the talent evaluation wing of the building. But it's, it's a new thing. They're coming together for

the first time. Adam Peters is a first time general manager, as you just described, a GM in training. And it just happens to come at a time in which the team has the most salary cap space that they've ever had the most in the league. They've got more draft picks in the first three rounds than they've ever had. And they have the number two overall pick and a quarterback top heavy draft, at least perception-wise, and a need for a quarterback. This is why I read that email from somebody a couple of weeks ago who said, really, this is going to be an immediate ability to evaluate the evaluators because there are big decisions right off the bat. It started with the head coach because it's very possible that Adam Peters could have been the hire of Josh Harris, but that Ron Rivera had just

finished year two and had three years left on his deal, and they were bringing Ron Rivera back. You know, it could have been. Yeah. But everything timed up. It all synced up. The end of Rivera, the natural end, he didn't get his fifth year, but an opportunity where you could get out. By the way, real quickly, on the conversation that I had yesterday about salary cap space,

you know, and the fact that, you know, they may not be flush with cash and there may be creative ways to kind of fill up the cap with backloaded contracts. Don't forget, too, in addition to what they've spent on the stadium, they're still paying coaches for another year. That's right. You know, Rivera for another year, Biennemi for another year. Probably Del Rio for another year. Probably Del Rio for another year. And maybe a couple of others that we don't think. and players too that they'll move on from.

But anyway, I don't know. We'll see what happens. I was hard on them, and I'm not taking it back. You should. Well, I was hard on them when they decided to raise ticket prices for next year. Yes. You know, part of me, I was hard with the way they announced it in the press release. The timing.

You know, not just the timing, but they talked about how, you know, They had so many sold-out games this year. Yeah, right. You know, I thought that was really disingenuous since they were not home crowds. But, you know, maybe I can understand more now why they had to raise ticket prices because they've got a lot of expenses. Yeah, and they paid $6 billion for the team. Yeah. And they do have a lot of expense.

But I agreed with you. I thought the timing, it was bad optics, the timing, you know, they were finishing up a 4 and 13 season. and then to talk about the sold-out crowds. Like there was so much renewed excitement. There was for the opener, and then it kind of waned. But I think it's back, and I always thought that the real beginning of the Josh Harris ownership tenure would begin with the firing of Ron Rivera in the offseason here in 2024. And we're building towards some exciting times ahead. I can't wait for the draft party at Commander Stadium.

Yeah. You know what? This would be the year when a quarterback at number two where you could actually get some people to the draft party. Yes, you could. You and I did some of those draft day Saturday shows where they were, you know, was a big draft day party at FedEx Field. And you went out and looked around and there may have been a couple of thousand people there. We also did the RG31.

The RG31. one when he flew in the helicopter. Yeah, there were like 25,000 people legitimately in the crowd. There is some Washington team news. This just reported moments ago, Tom Pellissarro,

and I'm reading it off of Ben's Twitter page, Ben Standings. The commanders are signing free agent tight end, Zach Ertz. That is a reunion with Cliff Kingsbury. He caught 54 balls in their 2021 season.

in Arizona when they went 11 and 6 and went to the postseason. So Zach Ertz is a Washington commander. What? This is so juvenile. Oh, boy. Do we have time for juvenile? Of course. Okay.

Okay. I mean, every time I hear Jack Hertz's name, I always think of the thing we used to do for substitute teachers in school, where they would give you a sheet of paper to sign your name for attendance. Oh, so is Dick Hertz? Yeah. And it's her teacher. We say, who's Dick Hurst?

Richard Hurts. So I can't, every time I hear Zach Hertz, I always think of that. So Zach Ertz was, I think, I think he was planning on retiring because, you know, his wife, the big soccer player. Julie. What's her name? Julie. Julie. Julie Ertz.

I think she's retiring. And I think they were going to retire together. But obviously. How nice. How nice. But it looks like Kingsbury's talking urts coming back. Some team flirted with the idea of signing him.

The Lions? Yes, the Lions flirted. I think they did actually sign him to the practice squad. Did they? I don't think they did. Maybe not. Maybe not. No, I think it was reported they were in talks about signing him.

But I don't think it ever got finalized. He signed with the Lions practice squad. Oh, okay. Actually, on January. 22nd, 2024. So that's basically a month and a half ago. But his contract expired when the team's season ended on January 28th. So they signed him before one of the playoff games or the potential championship game at that point, whatever. And then when their season ended in the loss to the 49ers in the NFC title game, he was a free agent. But he's 33 years old. I mean, Zach Ertz was always a good tight end. Had some big drops at times. But, um, a big time tight end and familiar with the Kingsbury system. You know, real quickly, the air raid, which everybody always associates with guys like Kingsbury and Mike Leach and Hal Mummy and all these guys that started at the origin of it, you know,

that offense never used tight ends. Like they just had no need for tight ends. They didn't recruit tight ends. They just weren't tight ends. And so when he got to the NFL, people were wondering about tight ends. Zach Ertz, you know, was targeted 81 times. He said this in his introductory. You're not getting the true air raid offense.

First of all, you really can't run an air raid style. The hash marks are different. The rules are different in the RPO game. There's just a lot that's different about pro football that Kingsbury, you know, adjusted to in Arizona. His offenses were middle of the pack, you know, when he was there. So, you know, I mean, in the NFL, it would appear that it's difficult to, have a very successful offense.

Oh, if you have enough players, I guess you could. But tight end has become a very important position over the years. Yeah. And it was one of the many failures of Ron Rivera, who had a very good tight end in Carolina with Greg Olson. Yep. Never seemed to put much value on it here in Washington. Was always content to shop at the Goodwill store for tight ends.

I think that that group, loved Logan Thomas. Like I think they really thought a lot of Logan Thomas. It's just in the season he had in 2020 was really good before a very serious injury. But you're right. I was just thinking about something and I'm looking this up just to make sure I'm right about it. The Ravens showed that you can have enough good tight ends. Remember the Mouse Davis run and shoot offense that the Falcons employed, the lines employed in the 80s and 90s.

Warren Moon was a part of with the Houston teams. No tight ends in that offense. It was just receivers and usually smaller receivers everywhere. And I'm looking up the roster of the Lions team that Richie Pettibone just completely destroyed twice in the 91 season. You know, he shut them out in the opener and then beat them 41 to 10 in the NFC title game. They had no chance. For whatever reason, run and shoot teams, Richie just laughed at and said, no. we've got this is how we're going to handle it and when we did the richie pedibone

lunch with a legend show remember that oh yeah where i almost where i kind of saved his life life that's the vision i have of of of that show yeah i saved his life he was we were on a stage and he was leaning back in his chair and the chair was about to go over on the stage and there was no wall there was a curtain yeah there was a curtain but there was no wall behind us yeah and i reached out and grabbed the chair and pushed it back onto the stage. Oh, yes. That was a close one. Oh, yes.

We would have been front page news. But I remember him talking about how the run and shoot was like, you know, if you knew how to stop it. And I forget what he specifically said. I think he put more athletes. He had Monty Coleman, which was a big deal in shutting down the run and shoot. But when they played Atlanta or Detroit or the teams that ran the run and shoot, they couldn't do anything against Richie's defense.

And I'm just looking at the Detroit. team, they didn't have one tight end that had a catch in 16 games. No, that's not true. Their tight ends totaled five catches, five catches on the season. They did have a big receiver in Herman Moore, the Virginia receiver. The Falcons had all those little receivers and the Oilers did as well. Those teams generated a lot of points, a lot of offensive excitement, unless they were playing Ritchie Pettibone's defenses, but they didn't advance in the postseason. It was not a cold weather offense, for sure. And there weren't as many Dome stadiums then as there are now. True. All of that is true. All right, Tommy wants to talk a little

Nats. We're also going to talk a little bit more about Russell Wilson because RG3 went off in defense of Russell Wilson. We'll get to that more right after these words. a few of our sponsors. All right, Tommy, tell us about Shelly's. Well, Shelley's back room at 1331 F Street, Northwest is a great place to be any time of day. But I would just want to let everybody know if you're out on the town in D.C. at night, you know, pre-COVID, a lot of places used to stay open late. Post-COVID, a lot of places closed a lot earlier than they used to.

In fact, it's hard to find some places open on a Monday. or Tuesday. Monday, a lot of places are closed. Well, not Shelly's. Shelly's is open Mondays from 11.30 a.m. till midnight. Okay, and that's the earliest they close. Shelly's is open Tuesdays through Thursdays until 2 a.m.

Friday and Saturday until 3 a.m. in the morning. You don't find places. No. No, not many. And their kitchen is often open late as well. So when you're rolling around town and you've been to a couple of clubs, or maybe a club or two, or you've been to an event at the Kennedy Center

or something like that. And you're looking for a place to hang out, and it's midnight. Shelly's is the place to go. Shelly's will be open. It'll be lively. You'll get great service. They have these TVs.

They have eight large big screen TVs. Comfortable seating. Comfortable couches. It's the place to go. When you've been running around town and you're looking for a nightcap, head for shell. Lely's backroom at 1331 F Street Northwest.

At least you didn't mouthwater me with the menu today because I am starving. Just thinking about some of the burgers that they have down there. You know, the Shelley's burger, which is great. And then there's sandwiches like the Cuban sandwich, which is awesome. I know. I got here before you had a chance to go out to lunch. I didn't go get a bite to eat today. I know.

I'm just sitting here. You know what I've had. Look at my shelf. What do I have on the bottom shelf down? there, Tommy. What were we talking about the other day? You got paper towels. Well, I have a box of... You got duct tape.

I have a box of cereal. Oh, okay. Yeah, you see the Cheerios? Right there? Yes. I've had magic spoon lining the shelves of the studio here. Weren't we talking about cereals, or was I talking about that with Denton on the ear? You weren't talking about

with me because I'm an adult. I don't eat cereal. Adults do eat cereal. You're wrong about that. I know, I am. I still eat cereals. I know you do. I love cereals. All right. So I want you to listen to what Robert Griffin III, our favorite guy, said on ESPN's Mike Greenberg show, Get Up, yesterday morning when talking about Russell Wilson and really coming to his defense.

Here it was. I think the bottom line is when you bring in a quarterback of that caliber and you cater it to him, you have to fully cater it to him, not put him in an office. with a first-time head coach, a first-time play caller, a first-time GM, and a young team, and expect him to make chicken out of chicken shit? He actually said that, and they weren't prepared for it, so they weren't able to bleep it out. He forgot the actual saying, which is chicken salad out of chicken shit. But he was fired up, and he was fired up. He went on to say, for me, hearing everyone talk about him the way that they have,

doesn't really match up to the way he played, and it certainly doesn't match up to the fact that Russell Wilson is a Hall of Fame quarterback. The bottom line is that Russell Wilson is a starting quarterback in the NFL, and he's easily a top 20 quarterback, and I'm sick and tired of hearing Russell Wilson's name get dragged through the mud, closed quote. I suspect this is personal for RG3.

Yeah. I mean, the same complaints you hear about Russell Wilson's, You've heard about RG3, minus the talent that Russell Wilson has. Right. Okay. Well, RG3 had talent. Yeah, for a first season. Yeah.

Well, he had talent coming into the league. Yes, he did. And then he was destroyed, injury-wise. Uh-huh. You know. But he always had talent. Yes. But there was some things missing.

Yes. Russell Wilson was every bit the quarterback that people thought RG3 would become, but never did. Right. But what you're saying, I hear that too. I hear that too. Yeah, because the complaints about RG3 that he was a phony, that he was shadow, that he put on a front and all this. This is what you heard about Russell Wilson. Same things about him.

So I think this is personal thing for him. I think he's defending himself. I don't think he's defending Russell Wilson. Yeah. Because it's always about RG3. Yeah, there's, I think the complaints aren't exactly the same because Russell Wilson, when he left Seattle, And that, you know, lengthy expose on him in Seattle was written right after the trade to Denver. It was right before the regular season when they opened against each other.

Remember Denver with Nathaniel Hackett as the head coach in his first year opened on Monday night football at Seattle, which was a big, you know, built up matchup. And that story was shocking to people who didn't know what was going on in Seattle, that he was an absolute diva that he had, you know, essentially he was very difficult to get along with. He was incredibly aloof. Yes. His marriage to Sierra, you know, he fancied himself to be this major superstar well above sort of the NFL quarterback superstar level. That he was, you know, Hollywood. and you've still, to this day, you hear like on podcasts, some of those former Seattle players, Richard Sherman and others, just mocking the time with Russell Wilson.

And then Denver, when he got there, you know, he's got his own office, he's got all of these, they've made all of these accommodations for him. And when Sean Peyton got hired, one of the first things he said, I'm paraphrasing here is, we're not doing the Russell Wilson thing here. Yeah. You know, he's part of this team. Robert, he wasn't to that extent. Robert was entitled by the owner. He didn't have an opportunity. True, he wasn't around long enough.

Right. You know, these things, I mean, these things should good, well-owned teams in Seattle was a well-owned team, which is, by the way, why John Schneider tried to trade him in 2016, which was an amazing story that came out of that thing. In the height of Russell Wilson, they were trying to trade him in. 2016 to Cleveland for the overall number one pick. Teams, it's their fault. Yeah.

It's their fault for allowing this to happen. Allowing it to happen. And I think part of what Robert definitely is I got to put that on Pete Carroll, then. You got to put that on Pete Carroll. You got to put it on ownership here. You definitely put it on Dan Snyder. Yes. Because this was not a Mike Shanahan decision to allow the quarterback to feel that he

was entitled to things that the rest of the team wasn't entitled to. Right. But you do hear some of that defense coming from Robert, from Robert. But he is right about one thing. Russell Wilson, and I mentioned this yesterday, and I know that not everybody agrees, and that's fine. But if you watched him last year, he had a good season. I agree.

He had a season. I don't think he played poorly. I think he had a season that proved that he is certainly a starting quarterback still in the league. the Russell Wilson of old, but he is capable of being a middle-of-the-pack starter in the NFL and at a million bucks with Denver, you know, league minimum, with Denver picking up the $85 million over the next two years, if you don't have another answer in the draft or other ways to find the quarterback answer, like if you're the Raiders, you know, or if you're the,

not the Broncos, the Titans. I think Will Levis is a possibility. But you could go with Russell Wilson if the Vikings lose Kirk and can't draft a quarterback. So I do agree with Robert on his ability. But man, nothing says, and this is what he's missing in his rant, nothing says we despise you so much that we are going to pay $85 million in cap penalty.

hits the next two years for you to potentially play against us at some point. You know, I think I mentioned yesterday, it's that David Justice, Billy Bean, you know, from Moneyball. No, no, no, no. When Brad Pitt says, no, no, no, we're not paying your Sally. The Yankees are paying you to play against them, you know? And you don't take dead cap hits like that one unless you have a problem with the person. Yeah. Because he didn't play poorly enough for you to move on from him at that expense. All right. You said you wanted to talk about spring training and your Nats trip and, you know.

Just briefly. And just talk about the Nats in general because they've got some big bats here in spring chain training. Yeah, they got some young players, James Wood, who's playing well, Dylan Cruz, their number one draft pick from this past season. And there's been a lot to be excited about in spring training, but it's spring training. but it's spring training. Again, baseball, I think more than any other sport,

is the truest in terms of measuring your talent. Over 162 games in a regular season, you pretty much are the player that you turn out to be at that point. And I get the idea of being excited for the young players. All the more reason to have spent more money if these players are really ready to take another season, step, you know, to compliment them with some

veteran players. Because that's part of the development. I've talked about it before. Right. You know, surround them with veteran players who know how to be major leaders. You know, I mean, so it's a lot to be excited about. I'm looking forward to going to West Palm Beach.

You know, I'm going to sit down and talk to Davey for an interview. Dave Martinez, the manager. And I'll watch a few games and And back in Florida. Back in Florida. I can't get away.

Will you look for a karaoke bar? No, that's what I tell you, it's done, it's over. Yeah, but it's not the same place. It's over. You're on the East Coast now. Over. Yeah, I was going to ask you, like, there's no doubt that baseball's 162 games, it really, you know who these players are.

And by the way, it's also a sport, unlike football, where everything you do is pretty much quantifiable and measurable. Yes. You know, whereas in the NFL, the reason that a lot of the analytics advanced-based people get pushed back and even from the teams is that many more players with response, with many things and much of it, not measurable in numbers. And, oh, by the way, they have no idea what the player's responsibilities are a lot of the time in some of these.

some of these plays. But is baseball spring training as worthless as the NFL's preseason? No. Right? You're figuring out who's going to be a part of the group when you get to opening day because it's a month-long deal of everyday playing. Yeah, it is. Yeah, it is. And there's split squad games. Sometimes there's two games on the same day. Like when I'm there on Sunday, they'll have a group of players that will travel up the road to play, I think, the Marlins, and then another group will have a home game that night against the Astros. So, yeah, it's very valuable. It's valuable to get a look at the young players.

Yeah. You know, before they disappear down into minor leagues for the season. Do you know that as a sports fan, I have been to a spring training game one time? That is it. Where? in Sarasota Was it Sarasota or Naples Where I saw the Reds?

Was it Sarasota that I saw the Reds Or was I in another part of Florida? Marco Island did I see it or down in that area Did I see the Reds? The Reds? Where are the Reds home? I saw Reds training game in Arizona now.

Are they? But I think they used to train in Florida. I forget where it was but Sarasota has been the White Sox Yeah, the Reds spring training is in Arizona and the Cactus League now. But it didn't used to be. I think it used to be Florida. I want to see Plant City Stadium, Plant City, Florida was the home.

Sarasota. It was Sarasota. Yeah, that's where I saw them. So I've been to one spring training. There's a lot of people who have never been the spring training. I know. I think if I had baseball growing up, it would have been a much bigger part of my life. All right.

Do you have anything else? I got nothing else for you. I got nothing else either. I'll be back tomorrow. Good to see you. The most incredible turnarounds I have ever seen. It is John Havlicek who put the Celtics in the head. Then the sons took the technical to get port position.

Curtis Perry wanted somebody to stand back. Won't start until it's touched. They'll have to throw it up. Gar-Hurt turn around shot in the air. It's good. It's tied again. I don't believe it. Garfield Hurd at the buzzer.

Through one in a Boston gun. Good.