The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Quick Turn On Howell

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

After some Christmas and pocket-watch talk, Kevin and Thom talked about the amazing and very quick story turn on Sam Howell. From "Howell project is going well" to it coming to an abrupt end in barely a month is rather stunning. The guys talked a lot about that and then contemplated the possibility that the season-ender against Dallas might mean nothing for the Cowboys so....would it be justified for owner Josh Harris to request that Jake Fromm and other practice squad players play in that game? Plenty more on the QB situation including thoughts on Eric Bieniemy. Also on the show, the NFL HOF list is down to 15, Kevin had an early Thursday "Smell Test" pick, Thom picked the Commanders-49ers game, there were a few movie suggestions, and the Van Natta story was discussed as well.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. Tommy's here. I am here. The show presented by Windonation.

Call them at 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com. Mention my name. They'll take really good care of you. They've got a new deal out. And I'll explain that coming up a little later on in the show. Tommy, how was your Christmas? Did you get the most out of Christmas this year? because you were really excited about it.

It was a good Christmas. It was mostly because of the family I was with, the people I was with. I didn't get any particular, you know, as a gift that was surprising. I usually ask for a lot of books. I get them. I asked for a pocket watch because I used to use pocketwatches many years ago. and I have a little collection of pocket watches.

My dad gave me the one that his grandfather gave him, and my uncle gave me the one that his great-grandfather gave him, which is written in Italian, the writing on the pocket watch. So I got a pocket watch. That was kind of nice. But it was mostly, I really enjoyed my time with family. It was really nice. Is there a Christopher Walk-in speech in there as far as this watch goes and the trip that the watch has gone on?

No, no. You know, though, I used to get cheap pocket watches. I mean, this many years ago when I was 18, 19, 20, like four or five hours or something like that. And I used to go through them so much because I'd have in my pocket in my pants pocket. and, you know, when I come home drunk, which was often, I just dropped my pants upon the floor. Right. And then I'd wake up at some point and wind up stepping on the pocket watch in my pants pocket. Uh-huh.

So I used to go through them a lot. So, you know, you just were so excited about Christmas this year. I mean, you started with the Christmas talk in late November, and when you build up Christmas, which I've gone through in many years, and when it ends, there is a, you know, there is a brief period of depression that comes with the post-Christmas days. Are you feeling that? Well, no, because just to remind you, in a couple of days, I leave for Florida. Right. Good point.

So I don't have that, I have a whole new Christmas waiting for me with palm trees and, and, you know, beer on the deck and karaoke. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing is, when you're Tom Leverro and you get to spend time with Tom Levero, even though family has left, you still have you. So why would you be depressed? I've always managed to amuse myself. You are really good by yourself.

There's no doubt about that. When are you leaving for Florida? On Sunday, New Year's Eve. Okay, Sunday New Year's Eve. We drive about nine hours, stay overnight in Chattanooga. Mm-hmm. And then... Museum anywhere in Chattanooga, to see? Statues?

No. Okay. No, no, no, no. We just, just an overnight gig. We wind up, you know, that's where the other couple that we go down with, who's coming from Pennsylvania, they stay. We end up staying the same hotel in Chattanooga. And we go out to dinner every New Year's Eve at a Texas road. House. Have you ever been a Texas Roadhouse?

I think I have, actually. Good. I love their food. I really do. I think the boys and I stopped at a Texas Roadhouse somewhere in the bowels of Virginia coming back from a whitewater rafting trip, which was in West Virginia, but like southwest West Virginia. Yeah. And I think this was probably, you know, every bit of 10 years ago. But it wasn't bad.

I usually get the country fried chicken. I think that's what it's called. And it's got a real nice white sauce on top of it in addition to being fried. And then we head out the next day to six-hour drive from there to Miramar Beach. And I usually wind up on the deck of Pompano Joe's having a beer and overlooking the beach. And warming up that voice. warming up that voice for some karaoke. I'm sure we'll be watching.

I'm coming up with a whole new song list for this year. Oh, my God. Can't wait. Can't wait for that. So, you know, I was thinking about how I completely, completely did you wrong by not being the one to bring up your prediction about the Rams game that Jacoby Brissette would end up playing in that game. and how I had forgotten it because I was, you know, per usual, more focused on your score pick and probably writing that down.

And I did go back and listen to it afterwards. And, you know, you kind of threw it in there as we were both still talking. And not that I'm taking myself off the hook for not remembering it. I blew that one. But I'm wondering if the following is true. And I want to beat you to the punch if it is true. didn't you say before the season in our kind of season long predictions when we, you know, made our season predictions, mine was 8, 8, 8 and 1 again.

I think you went 8 and 9 or 7 and 10. Is that right? Do you remember? Yeah. Something like that. I don't remember specifically, but it wasn't 8, 8, and 1, and it wasn't a winning record. It wasn't a winning record. And in our, you know, preseason predictions, we will give, you know, a couple of footnotes.

Didn't you say that Sam Howe would not start 17 games? Wasn't that part of your season prediction that Jacoby Brissette would end up starting games? Well, I made up two predictions. I made two predictions. First, I predicted when we were doing the, before the season started, before training camp started, I predicted that Sam Howe would not be the starting quarterback week one, that Jacoby percent would. Oh, right. And I was wrong on that.

Right. But I also did predict that Sam Howe would not start all 17 games. There you go. Okay. So I remember correctly. But I blew it on the season opener. I just thought, again, I thought that he would outplay Sam in training camp. opportunities in preseason games.

But, you know, Ron Rivera never quite understood the concept of a quarterback competition the entire time he was here. He must have referred to quarterback competition three training camps and never really held one. And then after not holding one one year, he came out and said, I really screwed up. I should have really made it more of a competition. I forget which year. They all run together, the mediocrity.

So this is the guy who used that word all the time and never quite understood what it meant. So I just thought he would outplay a kid who would only play in one NFL game like he's doing now. So that was wrong. So before I get to what you think about the change here, it just is kind of incredible how we got here so quickly. it happened very quickly.

This was not like a long build. You know, this wasn't coming. You know, this happened really in a matter of like a month of real time. Because the cowboy game, going into the cowboy game on Thanksgiving, yes, they had lost to the Giants and that was a terrible loss at home. But it wasn't a loss in which anybody was thinking, oh, you know, it's time to bench Sam Hall. He had three interceptions in the game, but the team was terrible in that game. They had six turnovers overall. Tommy DeVito lit him up.

Sequin Barclay lit them up. They lost to the Giants for a second straight time. But it had come a week after one of the more impressive outings of the year for the offense and for Sam, which was the Seattle game. I know he didn't play great throughout the Seattle game. But those drives late in the game, which, you know, two fourth quarter, touchdown drives when they were down seven to tie those games were big-time drives and people were big-time believers. I mean, that was November 12th people.

And even in the Thanksgiving Day game, the first half of that game, Sam played pretty well in the first half of the Cowboys game on Thanksgiving Day. The score was 21 to 10 at halftime or 20 to 10 at halftime, but they hadn't played poorly. That was November 23rd. So basically, in one month, in one month, we've gone from, I mean, many people in this fan base telling many others to shut up, sit down. If you don't see it, you're a moron. We've got our guy.

To one month later, he's benched, he's completely rattled and broken mentally. can't even start him in these final two meaningless games because he's so broken. And the thought now is, what the hell's Rivera been doing all year? Why didn't he start percent earlier? I was just thinking about this last night after the podcast. And yesterday's show, by the way, with Logan Paulson was excellent. If you didn't listen to it, go back and just listen to the segments with Logan. He's really, really good and really insightful.

and by the way, a really, really solid guy. But it's like, my God, it just turned so quickly. Look, I'm not going to sit here and pat myself on the back for this, but all year long and going back to the offseason, I said, I have no idea. I don't know why anybody would have any idea about Sam Hal. He's played one NFL game. He was a fifth round pick.

There are reasons that he was a fifth round pick, and they're not just about the stats that he had. his senior year at North Carolina. And we got to see him play. And I was okay with them playing him. I wasn't sitting here pounding for Jacoby Brissette, even though I was always a Brissette fan, because nobody had this sense that in terms of the people that were out there

during the offseason and during training camp, that Brissette had made it clear that he was much better or that Sam had made it clear that he wasn't able to do it. I always thought there was this chance going into the off season. Well, Sam's going to get through OTAs and mini camps and training camp, and they're going to be like, yeah, it can't happen. He's just not ready. We're not going to be able to function like a football team. He's just not ready.

We've got to go with Jacoby Brissette. I didn't think it would happen, but I thought there was at least a chance. I considered it. Why wouldn't you? Because anything was possible with Sam. And as the season went on, people were rushing to judgment. And I said, I need to see more. I just want to see more.

Like I wanted to see more. It became apparent that it made sense to see more because there were encouraging moments, good games. But the last four and a half games have been, or the last three and a half games in particular, but really you count the giant game, four and a half games. And the half that he played well in, I would say, is the first half against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. It has gone from many people. Tommy, many people. I mean, in November, I did a poll on the radio show, which was a Twitter poll. The Team 980 did a Twitter poll that basically asked if Sam Howe or a quarterback in the draft was the preference, 90% said, no, no, no, Sam Howells our QB1.

Yeah. And here we are, barely over a month later. And I don't know, it's obvious to me that they have to focus. in the offseason, the new regime, on number one quarterback. Now, part of that is because of where they hopefully will be drafting, but that quarterback has to be the number one roster priority after the GM and the coach are hired. It's just kind of amazing that we got here that quickly.

You know, the dream, Ron's dream, Ron's wish, his wish casting from, you know, all the way back almost a year ago in January, you know, it looked like that prayer might be delivered for him, at least with, you know, the answer of maybe to it being completely crushed in him closing down the prayer and saying, yeah, this one wasn't answered. And he completely shut it down because the kid's too broken to play against the 49ers and the Cowboys. Pretty amazing. It really is. It's remarkable.

You know how we offer on the Sports 6th and the Kevin Sheen show a menu of excellence? Yes. Well, to describe what happened with the quarterback position this year is a menu of failure. It really is. You don't know what to pick from because there's so many choices. But I'm going to go with this one right here. Eric B. Enemy will be lucky, in my opinion, should be lucky if he gets another OC job in this league. He's had a big part of this disaster.

I mean, Ron Rivera built the roster that has let Sam Howl so vulnerable, particularly on the offensive line. But Eric Bianney should have seen that. I mean, it was obvious to everyone else. And instead of throwing the ball more than any other things, team in the league. I mean, this should have been a baby step kind of here, especially since, look, I don't know if the offensive line can run block good or not, okay? I'm not that well-versed in it, but I know they have good running backs who could have

run the ball. You know, I think Antonio Gibson has been terribly undervalued and misused by this coach as his career has gone off. Brian Robinson is a ball. I mean, I just don't understand that falls on the offensive coordinator who wanted to bring out his shiny, you know, Kansas City resume and throw the ball. And instead of developing the young quarterback,

which would have been his achievement to say, look what I did, now you have a quarterback that they're too scared to put on the field. and people should say, look what he did. I think that that is an open question right now. And I talked about this yesterday with Logan Paulson, and that is had Sam, see, one thing was not debatable during the offseason last year, during training camp, or at any point during the season,

and that is that Sam actually does have talent. You know, he's got armed talent, he's got mobility, he's got escapability, He's got some really, really good qualities and he's got some talent. But what would have been the best offense for him to be in and to grow in? I mean, there could be two different answers to that. Maybe Eric B. Enamey thought, no, this is what I want to do to get his growth as a passer. Because, you know, I mentioned in week two or three, there seems to be a long game here. You know, winning not necessarily the goal here.

It's all about the development. Then they started to talk about this is really about developing Sam. And they chose to go that route. But, you know, in my conversation with Logan yesterday, and I've mentioned this a few times over the last seven or eight weeks, to me, Sam, I'd like to see what he could do in an offense that runs the football, that uses the run and pass together, marries the two together well, with good boot, you know, leg or quarterback keeper action.

good play action. And the big change that we got to protect him, really, was we got more quick game at times, which was a big change and a very productive change for them when they went to that at the point in the season that they went to it. But you're right. Like, it was in hindsight, clearly, having him throw as many passes,

I don't think was the issue as much as not, as much as dropping them back as much as they did. And that was not his, you know, strength. It was obvious early on that he couldn't see things from the pocket on those longer developing routes with longer drops. You know, getting the ball out quickly on bubble screens and on hitches. And yes, but to your point to more running of the football and perhaps even the marrying of the run in the past together

in a Shanahan-esque kind of offense, I think there would have been a lot less bad moments or really bad moments, because he had some really bad games, not just recently people. He had some really bad games at various points in the season. His whole reason, supposedly, as the narrative went, for coming to Washington,

was to prove that he wasn't just, you know, carrying the clipboard for Andy Reed, although like you've pointed out, he may not have well stayed as the offensive coordinator in Kansas City either. They seem determined to make Matt Nady as their offensive coordinator. So this whole thing was, I'm going to show everybody what I can do. He hasn't come close to that. So, I mean, somebody will probably hire him as an offensive coordinator, but I wouldn't. and head coach?

I know he's become the poster figure for the lack of minority hiring as head coaches. But this guy is not a head coach. I mean, take away the stuff that the players, that the head coach, Ron Rivera said the players aren't crazy about him. And then that report service again recently, you know, and people could say, well, the players don't have to like them. Well, I don't know if we're talking about like, respect, or what, but there was a disconnect between him and the players from the start of this season. And there's nothing we've seen on the field to show that that changed. So, I mean, look, Ron Rivera gets, you know, the bulk of the blame,

but Eric the enemy carries a big share of it. Nothing on the field except for Jacoby Brissette's performance in the same exact offense against two teams in which the starting quarterback was struggling mightily. And I'm wondering if that's even part of why they're going to Berset here, if it's almost a favor to Eric B. Enemy to say, we're going to show people that your offense works. I don't think that that's really it either necessarily. I've got another theory that was proposed to me yesterday that I want to mention to you.

But I would be absolutely flurts. if Eric B. Enamee got a head coaching job. I would not be floored if Eric B. Enemy is hired by another team because I do think that there are, I think that Eric B. Enemy does know football. I think Eric B. Anamy does know how to design an offense, design plays in an offense. There have been, you know, various points in time this year where I felt like he's done a good job. And then other games in which it's been head scratching. But, you know, I think somebody will hire him. I think Kansas City would bring him back certainly because... Not as an offensive coordinator. Well, no, but look at their offense this year.

I mean, you know, there are people that think it's the reason that Kansas City's offense has taken such a step back is that there's no Eric B. enemy. I don't know that if, I don't know that any... Yeah, I could see that narrative taking place. Yeah. So it's possible he would end up back there. But, you know, look, we talked about when he got hired last February over and over again. I mean, so many people were, so many people in our business were, you know, labeling it an absolute coup. And I'm like, who? No one else wanted to hire him. Nobody. Like they were the only ones, the only ones that wanted to hire him. I don't know what football people are going to say about Eric Bianney after this season. I think Eric Bianney's issues and, you know, and

in terms of being, you know, a guy that's old school, super tough, maybe kind of a short shelf life with today's players. I don't think that's gone away, but I don't know what they'll say about this offense and about the development of Sam Hal, et cetera. I don't, I have no idea, and how much of it was Hal and how much of it was him. You know, the offensive line narrative about how bad the offensive line's been, I haven't at any point this season watched this offensive line and thought it was good. But I think I mentioned this yesterday, and if I didn't, I'll mention it again right here.

In the latest next-gen, you know, pass-block win rate ranking, Washington's pass-block win rate is 14th in the league. 14th. Now, one of the things I think is true is that if you look around the league and if you watch a lot of football, there's a lot of bad offensive line play. There is a lot of bad past protection units in the NFL. It is the position. Look at where we are with quarterbacks to the league.

I mean, half the league has backup quarterback starting. Yeah, you have a lot of protection issues in a lot of places. You've got a lot of musical chairs with injuries on offensive lines. And it's become actually, you know, evaluators will tell you that the quarterback positions become harder to evaluate because of the way college football is played. But they'll also tell you that the offensive line positions are harder to evaluate because they play much differently in the college game. There is a spread look in a lot of places. It's just different. And you see that with some of the misses on offensive

linemen in the draft. I mean, for everybody that's saying, no, we're drafting offensive linemen. We're We're taking this opportunity. Well, I mean, they miss big time too. I mean, it's a crapshoot on offensive linemen as well. But the Eric B. Enemy thing, I would imagine that he's certainly in the league coaching next year. Not here. But I would be absolutely stunned if he was a head coach in the league next year. I don't even think he's got to be an offensive coordinator.

I'm just trying to figure out how would the team present that to their fans based on what? Why are we hiring this guy? What would you tell your fan base? I don't see any team that could get away with doing that. He may have a coaching job somewhere, but I don't even think it's going to be an OC. Yeah, I mean, when all is said and done, Washington's going to be in the bottom third statistically of almost every office. offensive category, with the exception of, and I think I mentioned this the other day, passing yards where, you know, many were drooling over the passing yard numbers at various

points in the season. Sam's now 11th in that, but Sam's basically a bottom-dwelling statistical quarterback in the NFL now. Leads the league in interceptions, leads the league in sacks, leads the league in batted balls, is 23rd in QBR, 27th in passing. rating. He is, I think, PFF's 31st or 32nd ranked quarterback. That puts him in Taylor Heineke, Carson Wentz territory from last year. And, you know, yeah, I mean, it's not like they scored a lot. You know, this offense ended up averaging barely 20 points a game, you know, chalk up the two Philadelphia games. I'm telling you, the two Philly games this year were the games of the year for Washington.

Both losses. Yes, they were. Both losses. You know what's amazing, though? What? So many bozos were ready to throw a parade for this kid. Before he ever took a snap this year. Well, I mean, that's the nature of a lot of our fans, yeah.

It's disappointing in a way. I guess I shouldn't be disappointed at this stage, but it is a little bit disappointing that, you know, that you have a, an audience, and I'm not talking about your audience, I'm talking about the general Washington sports audience, that doesn't have a better grip on reality. It's not, you know, I've reacted to obviously a lot of it, because I actually think it's funny sometimes to read some of the stuff that I read, and I think it makes for decent content here and there. It's not just how completely off the, the,

reservation some of these people are in the way they look at things and the way they evaluate things and I'll chalk some of that up to just how completely you know mistreated as a fan base we've been yes how much trauma and how desperate for any semblance of hope I mean I think we've chalked a lot of that up to that oh in recent years but I think you know it's the nature of social media too I understand that but you know whether it's social media or a lot of it comes you know via email for people like you and me. I just can't believe that the certainty in which people have felt recently

about, you know, Carson Wentz, Sam Howell, Taylor Heineke. And it's not just that you're wrong, it's that you're a hater, you're not a fan. So go cover you know who in Minneapolis. That's what I get a lot. By the way, speaking of you know who in Minneapolis, he is going to be a free agent.

Just saying he's going to be a free agent. And it's a new regime. And what if they don't love Caleb Williams or Drake May or Jaden Daniels? And they do go offensive line and decide to look for their quarterback elsewhere. Because for those of you that maybe still are hanging on to this idea that Sam may be the QB1, and by the way, there's a chance he could be the QB1 here next year to start this. season, but they are going to look for a better quarterback, a quarterback that gives them a better chance long term. Whether they find that quarterback or not, you know, that's to be determined.

They're going to have a chance, certainly in the draft, to take one with a very high ceiling. A ceiling much higher than Sam's appears to be now after 15 games. but this is not over for Sam, and I've said this before. I think he's going to be in the league, Tommy. I think he's a quarterback that's proven enough, given how bad quarterbacking is across the board in so many places. Sam's going to be a quarterback. And by the way, I'll go a step further. Sam will start games again for this team or for another team in the future.

But I think, and I mentioned this yesterday, and I want to get to kind of your thoughts specific to just the actual benching and your reaction to Rivera deciding to do this. But I think what yesterday really, you know, there were several things it proved to me or said to me. But one of them is essentially this. They've given up, this whole season was about playing the guy with an unknown ceiling, right? You knew what Jacoby Brissette's ceiling was. You had no idea what Sam's was, but he had some talent. So let's go see if Sam's the guy. And let's pray that he's the guy because then I can take credit for him when I'm gone.

Well, what they did here in the final two games is they essentially told you that his ceiling isn't as high as they would have hoped it would be. He got the nod to see whether or not he had a high ceiling. and he's got some talent, as we know. And he was the chance for a long-term answer because Bressett's not that. But bailing on him with two weeks left is, you know, at least a slight admission that they've got a good idea that his ceiling isn't high enough. Because you know what, Tommy, if it were still a high ceiling and they had confidence that his ceiling was really high,

I think they'd put him back out there and let him fight through it. I think they would too. Yeah. Absolutely. Look, you know, my philosophy, I wrote about this last week, I think that Rivera wasted the season with this Sam Howe development plan that he had. I think with Reset, I think you could argue, I'm not saying they would have, I think you could argue this team could have won nine games. And in this league, that means making the playoffs right now. and, you know, one playoff win, while it may be somewhat fool's gold, would also be a gift to a fan base that hasn't had a playoff win since when?

2005? Right. Yep. So, I mean, but, yeah, this is an experiment that has failed, and they're telling you that. And this puts now us into, you know, we'll put Sam Hal on the bench. and then figure out what the hell is going to happen in these next two games. Because everybody of any level of intelligence is going to be rooting for this team to lose the next two games. Right.

So that's where I want to mention this. Do you know what Ron Rivera's overall coaching record is? I just wrote it down on a piece of paper. 30 seconds ago. You did? 102 and 101. Exactly. 102, 101, and two. So I had somebody mentioned to me yesterday. There's one reason he's going to Berset here, more than any other. And that is he does not want to leave coaching with a subpar, a sub 500 record. He is alpha male. He's competitive. He's had a winning record pretty much the entirety of his coaching career. And this season has put him in jeopardy of leaving coaching with a sub 500 record. And he's had a winning record. And he's had a winning record. And he's a winning record. And he's a winning. And he's, he's, he's putting Brissette out there for these final two games,

even though he did not commit to the final game of the year, because he's hoping that Brissette can get him one win so that he ends up being over 500 as a coach. What do you think? You know, you put it kindly alpha enough. I think he's petty enough to do that. Well, he doesn't care about the draft pick. You know, that would have to be a Josh Harris.

look coach can we call jake from up from the practice squad and play him these final two games please okay we we've got a chance to pick in a quarterback heavy draft early um and so we don't want to blow that with a win you know and what would okay let me ask you that scenario uh and juan Rivera says no. I'm not doing that. Then you fire him. Okay. And that's a messy situation. Well, it's actually, you look, there have been a lot of coaches when you were planning a regime change where it's like you just let them go the week before the season ends. You could probably couch that in a way that wouldn't look so disrespectful to Ron. But if Ron said no on something like that and it was, you know, here, so let me. me throw out this scenario, and I did it yesterday on the podcast. So they're not going to beat the Niners with Sonny Jurgensen a quarter back on Sunday,

okay? So that one's safe. The finale, however, there's a chance that if Dallas loses Saturday night to Detroit, that that game will be totally meaningless to the Cowboys. They'll be eliminated from the division. They'll have their five-seed locked in, and they'll come to FedEx Field for the finale, potentially resting starters. That's the game that would be the concern.

You got to, and I mentioned yesterday, if you want them to lose out, which that I do, you really have to root for the Cowboys Saturday night to beat the Lions. I mean, now, if they were to lose to the Lions and the Eagles were to lose to the Cardinals, then they'd have something to play for. But are the Eagles going to lose to the Cardinals at home? Probably not. You got to root for the Cowboys to beat the Lions Saturday night.

That's a big spot. So if the Cowboys came here off of a loss with nothing to play for, and he's going to go out and put Jacoby Berset out there, because there's no doubt, I think you agree with this. At this point, there's no doubt that they're a better offensive football team with Jacoby Berset because Jacoby Bresset's a better quarterback than Sam Howell. It may not prove long term. Sam may have, you know, another chance or five other chance.

because he's got some talent and he's a good kid. He'll get more chances. But Jacoby Brissette's a better quarterback right now. It's pretty obvious. That would be a danger spot that season finale, and that's where maybe Josh Harris would have to say, hey, coach, a win and we go from potentially number two or three in the draft to like six. Do you mind calling up Jake Fromm from the practice squad and playing him in this game? And let's see some other, we'd like to see and, you know, we'd like to look at some of the young players in this season finale. I think Ron would do it. I don't think Ron would be.

Ron's, you know, Ron's not a, is not going to say no, fire me. I just don't see that with Ron. Do you? Well, no, I don't. I mean, that's one of the things I wrote in my column yesterday. If Rod was that kind of guy, he would have told Dan the minute he arrived. Right. That, you know, I'm picking my quarterback.

I'm not taking your quarterback. If you don't like it, fire me. Right. No, I don't see. Look, he's from a military background. A military guys generally follow the chain of command. You know, I can't speak to it that well, but that's my impression. Okay.

So I don't see him, no. I don't see him standing up to that. But if the owner does not do that, can you fairly criticize the new owners? It's something we haven't criticized them for anything pretty much yet, although some people think they should have fired Ron already. But it's out of legitimate criticism. If the new owners and the last game means so much to their future, they don't give Ron marching orders to basically play the scrubs.

What if Ron decides just to go back to Sam? How in that scenario against the Cowboys playing, you know, backups with nothing to play for? Well, he's got a chance to win. Yes. Sam Hal would have a chance to win that game. I agree. Yes. I think the best chance for them to really struggle would be to play, you know, the kid from the practice squad, you know, and really do what, you know, it would be to Nate Sudfeld.

What the Eagles did, what Howie Roseman did against Washington in 2020, when Jalen Hertz was playing well in. enough in a tight game, he put Nate Sudfeld into the game in the fourth quarter to ensure that they didn't lose like four to five draft slots. Yeah. But how much would Ron Buck if his, look, we've had the famous quote about his legacy from sport, the ESPN story about, you know, send me my Super Bowl ring when this team, Bill Fletch, my hand goes on the win of Super Bowl. So he clearly has his legacy in mind.

What if that game is the difference between losing and winning in his NFL career? Does he push back then? I don't know. Because you know what? If he gets fired, he leaves with a 500 record. Yes. Right? Yes, he does.

Like if he said, no, I'm not doing that. He leaves 102-102-and-1. 500. Yes. And, you know, what's really? Remarkable, he's had three winning seasons in 13 years. That 12 and 4 and 15 and 1 seasons that he had, boy, they did him a lot of good. You're never going to get me, by the way, never people out there listening.

You're never going to get me to say that Ron Rivera wasn't a decent coach at Carolina. He was. He was, and he was respected by coaches around the league. By the way, still is. those Carolina teams, even the ones that didn't finish, you know, the first two years were true developmental years with the number one pick in the draft, Cam Newton. All right, and they went six and ten, seven and nine, and then they started to make the playoffs. They made the playoffs in four out of the next five years. I always felt from afar that Ron Rivera's teams in Carolina were tough, disciplined, and well-coached.

But he has not been that here at all. It's been a disaster here. But God, you know, we've got, hey, stay tuned. Tommy will be in Florida. He may not be paying close attention to it. But if they lose to the Niners and the Cowboys lose to the Lions, oh my God, that sets up a very fascinating season finale. I said yesterday that my overarching theme to all of yesterday was, who cares?

All of these people are going to be gone. In less than two weeks, they're all going to be gone. And even the two quarterbacks that are left are essentially not going to be plan A in the offseason. Plan A is going to be somebody that's not on the roster, probably through the draft. But actually, if Dallas loses Saturday night, there are so many different scenarios. And the idea that we will really look to Josh Harris for the first time, at least I will, I think you're right. By the way, I'm answering your question now. I think my expectation would be for Josh Harris to step in and say,

hey, Ron, Jake Fromm's on the practice squad. We'd like to see him play Sunday against the Cowboys. Jacoby's awesome. Sam's great. We've seen enough Sam. We know what Jacobi is. We'd like to see Jake Fromm. I think that that would be smart.

I think that that would be something that I'd really. really want ownership in that particular situation with one game left to actually be involved in making sure happens. You cannot win a game here over the final two. Can't, can't have it. I hate this time of year. I hate rooting for this, but this is just, this is franchise changing potentially. It's also, like for all of you that say, ah, whatever, at six, they'll probably get a player that ends up being better than the player they get it too. Yeah, that happens all the time. I understand. Give me the most leverage possible with the highest pick. With a totally new group, there's no carryover effect winning either one of these two games. There's not even a

carryover effect being competitive in either one of these two games. All right, we got more to get to starting right after these words from a few of our sponsors. Tommy, tell us about shut. Shelly's back room, as everybody knows, is my home away from home. And, you know, last week, I didn't get a chance to talk about it that much. I don't know if we talked or not. But last week, I spent the night in D.C. at the J.W. Marriott with the intention, with the sole purpose of spending night at Shelly's. Yeah.

You know? And because I usually have to drive. home to Frederick. Right. And I didn't want to do that. And while I was there, a couple of Capps fans came in after the game. And one of them with guys name is Sean. He sat next to me at the bar.

He said he came in because he heard me talking about that I'd be going to shelly's that night, and he came in to see if I was there. And we had a great time talking about, you know, football and life and the capitals. and the podcast and all kinds of stuff. And I really enjoy the interactions I have with people at Shelly, even the ones who don't even know who I am. That's the one thing about Shelly's backroom. I've sat at the bar and met, you know,

people who run major corporations, you know, people who are UPS drivers, all sorts of people, because it's that kind of warm atmosphere. It's the place that welcomes the kind of conversation that you like to have in a bar, okay? And I think cigars tend to help with that. There's a certain camaraderie that comes with people who smoke cigars. And you find that at Shelly's. You can find out more at shelley's backroom.com.

It's located at 1331 F Street, Northwest. if you're getting down to the district, make a point of stopping at shawley's and enjoying yourself. Really, really pretty this time of year as well. Decorated for the holidays, really good spot. So a couple of things to get to here in this segment. I'm assuming that many of you probably saw this Don Van Nata story, where Robert Rothman, Bob Rothman, who was one of the three minority shareholders with Dan Snyder's owner's during Dan Snyder's ownership of the team.

Remember when they sold their 40% stake back in April of 2021 for $875 million, and then basically two years later, the franchise had a valuation and a sale price that was more than double what the valuation was when they were bought out as minority shareholders. So Bob Rothman is suing Bank of America specifically in saying that Bank of America, conspired with the NFL and Snyder to force the three minority partners to sell their stake at a valuation far below the $6 billion that Snyder was paid for the team.

Remember, it's Bob Rothman, Fred Smith, the FedEx founder and chairman, and then Dwight Schar, who had a lot of issues of his own during the last couple of years. You know, I read this story. It was, you know, filled with a lot of detail. Don Van Natta always does a phenomenal job. And as I was going through it, I finally just bailed on it. Because you know what? It just doesn't matter to me anymore.

I'm not, I mean, there is a part of me that's interested to see whether or not they'll, they, I don't think they can win this case personally. Look, they accepted the deal. They took the deal. and it was a minority stake. So a minority share is never going to go for the full valuation of control, you know, when you buy a controlling stake. That's always going to come with a higher valuation.

And, you know, two years is a long time. Things do change. And, you know, a minority stake just isn't anywhere near worth what, you know, buying the whole team or buying a controlling stake is. I don't personally have any. legal expertise on how this will play out. But from a business standpoint, I just can't imagine that somehow they're going to get paid based on a different valuation three to four years after the fact. It'll be three years after the fact in April. By the time this...

You're probably right. But you have to admit, we did think when the team was eventually sold that those guys got screwed. Well, I said at the time, Tommy, remember, I said it at the time. I'm like this is, this valuation basically comes out to, you know, somewhere over $2 billion, and it's a minority share. So this team is going to sell for, you know, like we've talked about, it'll be the biggest sale in North American sports history. It's going to end up being close to $5 billion. But it went for $6. So, yeah, they did not get a great deal, but it's a deal that they accepted and negotiated. I know. I know. You're right. But they're going to argue that information was with hell.

Yes, that's part of it. That negotiations were done in bad faith. Yeah, that's, yeah, and that they didn't have all the information and all the numbers. Maybe. Yeah, they may have a case with that. And also what's interesting is this is connected somehow to the criminal investigation that's going on by federal prosecutors into Snyder. You know, that's part of the story as well.

That's an ongoing investigation. I forget it's a southeast or southwest, southeastern U.S. Attorney's Office. I forget which district. So this is, I think, is connected to that, which it should be of some interest for people who want to see Dan Snyder suffer. Yeah, it's the Eastern District of Virginia. You know, it's that credit, it's that $55 million credit line investigation, right. But I understand that thinking. It's almost a sense of relief for Washington fans.

They could read the first five paragraphs and say, hey, I don't have to deal with this anymore. Exactly. This isn't my problem. I mean, as I saw, you sent me a copy, five or six people sent me the story, because I wasn't paying attention late yesterday when this broke. And so I started to read it, and then I, you know, Van Nata stories are very detailed. They've got a lot of stuff in it. It's a long story. And I'm just like, it just doesn't impact us anymore.

He's gone. Yeah. Like, this has nothing to do with the franchise anymore. I mean, from a curiosity standpoint, I'll be interested to see if they actually win the case and are paid some of that money. In some ways, I'd like them to take some of that $6 billion that Snyder got and take it back. But I don't really care. It's meaningless. There were a couple of other things real quickly, because we're going to get to Tommy's prediction for the 49ers game.

So the NFL Hall of Fame list has been narrowed now to the final 15-player ballot. And London Fletcher did not make that list. So for those of you, like me, who think London Fletcher has a legitimate case to be a Hall of Famer, I don't think it's a slam dunk, as I've said before, but when you compare his numbers to others who are in the Hall of Fame, it's a pretty compelling case in many ways, and in other ways it isn't. He did not make the 15 finalist list.

The players that are on there, Julius Peppers and Antonio Gates, both of whom, I believe, are Hall of Fame players. And then their Patrick Willis, short career, but man, a great career. Andre Johnson, Dwight Freeney, Jared Allen, William, Anderson, Darren Woodson, and Devin Hester. I've always felt like Devin Hester, as a returner, actually belongs in the Hall of Fame. And then Eric Allen, Rodney Harrison, Fred Taylor, and Johari Evans made it to this stage as well. So there you go.

Do you have any thoughts on this or not? Well, yeah, it's tough decisions because I think most of these guys are Hall Famers. I think Julius Peppers is. I think Gates is. I think Eric Allen is. Jared Allen, Willie Anderson, Jahari Evans,

Dwight Freeney. I think all, Tori Holt, I think all that Patrick Willis. I think Darren Woodson, I think all those guys are Hallfamers. So it's a really tough group. I want this fletcher just not belong with this group.

Okay, I get that. Yeah, it's a tough group. I agree. It's a tough group to break through. There's no doubt about that. And the idea of Devin Hester, I think he is a Hall of Famer, but it will call me if he gets in before Brian Mitchell as a return guy.

I know that we're talking about two different type of return guys in a sense that you're putting Devin Hester in because he was such an explosive return guy. but if you better put a returner in, the first guy's got to be Brian Mitchell. Got to go in. I disagree on that. As much as I love Brian and as much as I think he's got a case for the Hall of Fame, Devin Hester was an all-time electric special

returner. I mean special. The man has 19 return touchdowns. I agree with you. But he's not going in before Brian Mitchell, Not my Hall of Fame. Well, he would in mine. And I love B. Mitch and I think B. Mitch's case for the Hall of Fame.

But Devin Hester was clearly the best returner when he was in the league. Some of those years, Brian Mitchell was in the league as well, maybe just the very end of Brian's career. But Devin Hester was clearly the best returner in the game. It was debatable all of those years whether Brian was the best returner in the game. Devin Hester is one of the greatest and most electrifying returners in the history of the game, maybe the greatest and most electrifying returner in the history of the game. I think Devin Hester definitely belongs in the Hall of Fame, and I think I would put him in before B. Mitch, definitely.

I've always felt that way, but I put B. Mitch in as well. I got one last thing. Yeah. Well, we're not done yet. Before, yeah. We're not done yet. Okay. This is just the second segment of the show.

We have one more segment to go, where we will do our you heard it here first, bold predictions. Okay. But go ahead. If you want to rush the ending of the show, go ahead. If you want to rush the ending of the show, go ahead. What do you have? No, no, no. That you need to get to.

It's your show, buddy. I just sometimes you drive down the road and you get fixated and you're staring straight ahead, and you don't see the cars going by you. All right. Tell me about the cars that I'm missing. Well, no, no, no. I just had a question. Okay.

I'm not going to be able to see the 49ers game because I'm going to be on the road driving. Right. So I hope to listen to it on the radio app. I just want any listeners to maybe tell me that that's possible. Or do I have to, like, join some kind of society or, you know, or anything in order to listen to that on the app. Just get Sirius XM. Just do it. Just get a trial of Sirius XM where you can, you know, bail out after seven days. And then you can listen to either the 49ers broadcast or the Washington broadcast. You'll have your choice of either one. You see, that's, that's why I, that's why I still

listen to you sometimes. That's what I would do. I would just, I guarantee you serious XM has some sort of seven to 14, maybe a 30-day trial. And of course, here's the problem with Tommy. Tommy, who's, you've never had satellite radio, right? Yeah. Is that you'll, as you're trying to find the broadcast that you want during the game, you'll go through some of these, you know, music stations or these old throwback, historical, you know, radio networks where they're playing old radio shows from the 1920.

or 1930s, and that's what you'll end up listening to for the entire drive. Do you have a prediction on the game Sunday? Yeah. It will be just as ugly as everyone thinks. 41 to 21, 49ers. 41, 49ers. A footnote to the game? I'm paying attention.

No particular footnote. Does Sam Hal? Nothing. Does Sam Hal make it into the game because Jacoby Brissette isn't playing well? Okay. All right. I'll have... Here's the question, though.

Yeah. Did anyone ask, and I might have missed it, because I don't catch everything, did anyone ask Ron who the backup is on Sunday? No. I don't think anybody asks, but I think the assumption is it's Sam Hal. I don't think Sam's getting demoted. I don't think he's getting demoted. But if he's broken, and you're going to pull the guy who you're starting,

Right, or if he gets hurt, or if he gets hurt. Yeah. Well, if he gets hurt, well, if he gets hurt, you're going to put in the guy, you're a phrase that's going to get hurt? That's what I'm saying. I think, no, I think you're bringing up a very valid point. You've had a couple of them on the show today, really. Because I always have a blank piece of paper here,

just to write down thoughts as the show's going along, and sometimes I want to take those thoughts to the next radio show or the next podcast. And that is a valid question. First of all, your first one is a really good conversation, which is we could be here a week from today with hopefully Josh Harris having stepped in to say Jake Fromm as a starter. Pardon me once now the Cowboys to lose the game,

just to see this scenario play out next week. But, yeah, if he so needs a break, and needs to, as Ron said, multiple times take a breath. Why would you want to put him in as a backup if Jacoby gets hurt? Maybe Jake Fromm should be called up and Sam should be down this week. I don't think they would do that to him, though, honestly. They're not going to do that to him. They're not going to demote him.

When they demoted Dwayne, it was because legitimately he had 52 other men in that locker room that he had to be concerned about and it was still early in the season. As far as Sam goes, Sam's well-liked. It's not logical to make him the backup. There is some logic to ensuring that he doesn't have to play in the game at all. From their standpoint, based on what they've said, that's true. All right, we'll finish up with, you heard it here first, some bold predictions for the week. And I have a movie recommendation when we return right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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It's a bowl game. It's the Pop Tarts Bowl. Featuring NC State and K State. NC State plus the two and a half, but I'll buy the half point to get it to plus three. A lot of public action on K State. A lot of sharp action on NC State. These bowl games are tough, understood with the opt-outs,

but this is one I will be playing. You should too. NC State plus the two and a half by and a half point, so taking it at plus three in the Pop-Tart bowl. Tommy, what's your favorite Pop-Tart of all time? I did not like Pop-Tarts. Oh, really? Love Pop-Tarts.

Although my kids used to like them. I didn't like them. I loved Pop-Tarts. I loved Chocolate Pop-Tarts. I love the Samores Pop-Tarts, but the brown sugar cinnamon, probably my all-time favorite, but strawberry, either frosted or unfrosted. Pretty good, too. Good win, by the way, for Virginia Tech in the Military Bowl game.

They finished 7 and 6. Good season for them. And congratulations to the Military Bowl people. In a pouring rain, they drew over 35,000, the third largest crowd they've ever had. And that crowd stayed there for a lot of the game. It was a good matchup. my friend Steve Beck runs that bowl. He's done a phenomenal job.

He founded it. He's the executive director of it. And it really is such a first class event every single year. And by the way, as much as I loved, and I got to call the first four military bowl games, call them with Gino Toretta and Doc Walker. But I loved being an RFK for some of those games. But Annapolis is the perfect setting for that bowl game. It really is.

So no pick on the NFL game tonight. Joe Flacco and the Browns can clinch a playoff spot tonight. Thursday night football, the last one of the year against the Jets. They are seven and a half point favorites. Cleveland's got some injuries in that game. And the jet defense is nasty. I thought about giving the Jets a look, but there's some sharp action on Cleveland, so I stayed off of it, even though all the public actions on Cleveland.

So I've got a quick movie recommendation. I've watched a couple of movies the last couple of nights with with the boys in town. Last night I watched this movie Dream Scenario with Nicholas Cage. It was pretty good. Okay, that's not the recommendation. I liked the movie. It was good.

Julianne Nicholson's in it, Nicholas Cage's latest movie. I think it came out in November. But the movie that I absolutely loved I watched two nights ago was the holdovers with Paul Giamatti. Such a good movie. Tommy, I watched it. Did you like it? it? I liked it. I'm not fawning over it like everybody else did. I'd recommend it to people. It's certainly an enjoyable movie, but I didn't get so, I wasn't so into it like everybody else was,

but I enjoyed it, and I'd recommend it. It's an Alexander Payne movie, for those of you that don't know Alexander Payne. To me, he did the best Paul Giamatti movie of all time sideways. way back in the early 2000s, I think that movie came out. But I really liked it. I thought it was really good. I thought Giamati was excellent per usual. I would bet that he's going to get nominated for his performance. There's a lot of good buzz about that.

Although for Best Picture, it's Godzilla minus zero. Let's make that perfect week. Actually, that'll win best foreign films since it is a Japanese movie. I'm going to try to find that movie. I'm going to try to see that movie. I have no interest in horror movies, but I'm going to try to go see it. You texted me about what was the Christmas movie I recommend, and I said, The Ice Harvest. Yeah, we watched it.

We liked it. We liked it. It was, I mean, KSack's awesome in that movie. I mean, you know, it was a good movie. I liked it a lot. It was, you know, I didn't know what to expect because I didn't know if it was like, it's more of a diehard, you know, Christmas movie, meaning it's around Christmas time, but it's not necessarily a Christmas movie.

But I liked it. I liked it a lot. I thought that... Oliver Platt was... Wasn't Oliver Platt hilarious? Platt was great. You know, I'm a big Connie Mielsen fan. I have always been a big Connie Mielsen fan.

I think she is beautiful. And the thing that I didn't know, Tommy, about this, I guessed incorrectly on this. We went and looked it up. I figured that she was younger in this movie than she was in Gladiator. But she wasn't. She was older. Gladiator came out in 2000. Ice Harvest came out in 2005.

She looked much. Didn't she? I mean, she looked great in that movie. She looked gorgeous in Ice Harvest. Yeah, but I thought she was, she looked actually younger in that movie than she was in Gladiator, but, you know, I guess they tried to make her look, you know, based on the era that Gladiator took place a little bit, a little bit older. Anyway, all right, let's finish up with you heard it here.

First, our bold predictions for the week. I've been waiting to hear what the big announcement was going to be in. You got it right here. Heard it here first. All right, Tommy, what's your bold prediction for the week? Okay, this is bold, baby. This is bald with a capital B. Russell Wilson will be the starting quarterback for the Washington.

commanders next year. That situation actually irks me a little bit. I know that Russell Wilson is a major diva, and I know that a lot of people that have played with him and coached him do not like him. But I think he's been a pro there this year all year long. He's been, he's had a good year. He's 26 touchdowns, eight interceptions. He's played well for him. I think he's had a decent year. and I think this is wrong because they are still technically in playoff contention. And just so people understand, they're benching him because if he plays and gets hurt, they're going to be on the hook for another $37 million if he doesn't pass a physical in March. First of all, what are the chances that he's not going to pass a physical in March?

I guess zero if he doesn't play. But being in playoff contention still mathematically, I think that they owe it to the rest of the team. to play them. I agree with you. Let me make it clear, though. Let me make it clear. I think they're still going to draft a quarterback. I think Russell Wilson will not have many suitors on the free agent market.

I think he'll have something to prove. I think he'll take a one-year deal to come here to Washington while they do the right thing and break in a young quarterback slowly. All right. My bold prediction for the week is that Caleb Williams will not be the first pick

in the draft. I'll just leave it at that. Last night, his replacement, Miller Moss through six touchdowns, and people were screaming, Caleb Williams is a system quarterback. I don't think it'll have anything to do with that. If you watched Caleb Williams,

you know he's special from a talent standpoint. I think there's a lot going on with Caleb Williams. I do. And it's not going to be shocking to me if Jaden Daniels ends up being the number one quarterback selected. And if it's not him, it would probably end up being Marvin Harrison Jr. That's my bold prediction.

It would be great if you're Washington sitting at two or three if Caleb Williams falls a little bit because I'd still be interested. All right, that is it for the day. Tommy, thanks. Enjoy the weekend. Happy New Year to you. Happy New Year to everybody else from Tommy. I was thinking that this was my last show with the week, but I'll be back tomorrow.

You got anything else? Happy New Year, everybody. All right. Back tomorrow with Jay Gruden.