The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Real Deal For Heinicke

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Kevin with more on Taylor Heinicke a day after he left via free agency for the Falcons. Lots on the moves made late yesterday and the news today including moving on from O-line Coach John Matsko and losing Cole Holcomb to Pittsburgh. Ross Tucker jumped on to talk Aaron Rodgers, Lamar Jackson, and lots more on NFL Free Agency. Maryland Women's Head Coach Brenda Frese was a guest on the show talking about her 21 years at Maryland and the upcoming path for the Lady Terps in the NCAA Tournament. And then former AU, UVA, and current Old Dominion Head Coach Jeff Jones called in to talk about the men's March Madness draw.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Here's Kevin. I'm going to start the show today with a tweet from Gene, G-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-G-E-E-N-Rates, quote. You're not unhappy that Taylor's gone? Ungrateful, exclamation point.

You can follow me on Twitter at Kevin Sheen, D.C. Gene, I guess, is referencing, I guess I described at some point, whether it was on the podcast or the radio show yesterday that I was not unhappy that Taylor was gone. No, I'm not unhappy. You know, I, to be honest with you, I got a little annoyed with sort of this outsized importance that some placed on Taylor's impact on the team. But look, I wish him the best. But this is not a two to three year period, you know, football-wise. you know, in terms of franchise history, football-wise, that I'm going to look back on and become nostalgic about.

I mean, the notion of that is laughable. I'm happy for him. He's a good story, you know, and like we've said over and over again, there were moments here that are memorable for sure, but they didn't win anything. And the bottom line is, I can't see, you know, and I know some of you have, like, written tributes to Taylor and Sabah sent me some link to some story.

I haven't read it yet. But I can't see really being super nostalgic about a player who, A, really wasn't good and B played on teams that weren't really good. Actually, you should know by now. You should know me by now. I'm not into elevating somebody into something he or she isn't, Unless that somebody is Kirk Cousins, of course. But sorry, Gene.

It's just the way I feel. I wish him the best. He's a great story. I can only imagine how great it was to coach him, to be around him, because everything about him personally is so likable. But he wasn't very good in the teams that he played on weren't very good. So, no.

I'm not, you know, I'm not unhappy. that he's gone. You know, I am interested to see what they'll do next. And by the way, the contract was a little bit different than we had thought yesterday. Maybe we updated this on the podcast, but ultimately he's getting $6.3 million in guaranteed money. And it's basically all in year one. And if it doesn't work out, they can basically cut him and save huge salary cap numbers next year if it doesn't work out.

And when I say it doesn't work out, what I'm saying is if Desmond Ritter turns out to be the guy, I doubt they pay Taylor what they're projected to pay him overall to be a backup to Desmond Ritter. I think right now he's kind of insurance that if Desmond Ritter doesn't work out, they have a guy that can come in and functionate quarterback in the NFL as a backup and a part-time starter. And that's really where the contract, you know, he's got a bunch of incentives in there that could get him to, what was originally put out, which was two years, $20 million, which was a shocking number when I saw it early yesterday morning. That's more of, I think, an agent number that he puts out there initially.

But when all was said and done, really, it's a two-year deal, but only $6.3 million is guaranteed. Now, what it does bring up, which is interesting, is just, you know, and Tommy and I talked about this, and we argued about this yesterday. and Tommy told me about Galdi's interview with the college coach of Taylor Heineke and that he had referenced or intimated that, you know, Taylor wasn't pleased with Rivera. I'm not going to go over all of this, but it's very possible that ultimately the team in Atlanta weren't that far apart in money. Kimes suggested it was two years 10 million, and I don't know if that included incentives.

if that's the case, it may have been half the overall upside that the Atlanta deal was. But in guaranteed money, if it wasn't that far off, you know, it's probably one of three things. Washington really didn't want him back that much. Taylor didn't really want to be back, or maybe it was a combination of both. My guess is it's probably, and it was a combination of both. And really, the Atlanta situation is a pretty good situation for him to go down. It's his hometown. He's backing up a guy that they believe in. I had somebody on from Atlanta this morning on the radio show that they do believe in.

They said after they signed Taylor Heineke, Desmond Ritter, the reporting was Desmond Ritter is going to be the starting quarterback, and Taylor Hineke was signed to be a backup to Desmond Ritter. But, you know, Ritter was a third round pick, and, you know, it may not work out. And if it doesn't work out, he's in a system with Arthur Smith that may be more conducive to, his talent and his abilities, and maybe he'll end up playing. And, of course, there's always the, you know, the possibility of injury. Anyway, good day to all of you, or good evening or good night. Depending on when you're listening to this, the show today is presented by MyBooky.

Go to MyBooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin, D.C. And you will be able to do something that most books don't allow you to do, and that is cash out quickly. After you make your deposit, all you have to do is wager that deposit amount one time and you're eligible to cash out. It's perfect for March Madness. By the way, they've got a $150,000 bracket contest on my bookie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. They have fair point spreads, fair money lines, fair prop bet prices.

They do it the right way and you're guaranteed to get your money after you wager that deposit amount just one. time. MyBooky.ag use my promo code. Kevin D.C. Maryland is a two-point underdog at MyBooky against West Virginia tomorrow in what will be the first game of the first round. And by the way, somebody sent this to me. Who sent this to me? It may have been my boys who sent this to me. There is, somebody tweeted out expert picks on the Maryland-West Virginia game. You know, guys like Billis and Reese Davis and all the college basketball writers. And there are roughly 25 or so selections here on that game. Only one person picked Maryland.

Andy Katz from the Big Ten Network picked Maryland. Everybody else picked West Virginia. Billis, Reese Davis, Pete Thammell, Seth Davis, you know, Jerry Palm, other names you might know, Joe LaNardi, Seth Greenberg, Dennis Dodd, lots of college basketball writers and, you know, television, so-called experts. One out of it looks like maybe 25 people who selected made picks on this game. Only one picked Maryland.

That's crazy for an 8-9 game with a short point spread at two points. I actually had somebody on from West Virginia, a guy that covers the Mountaineers on radio this morning, talking about Bob Huggins team and the matchup. You can listen to that by downloading the Odyssey app or going to the Team 980.com. Three guests on the show today. Brenda Freeze will be on the show today, Maryland's women's coach. The Terps get ready to open up as a two-seed on Friday at Exfinity Center. excuse me, against Holy Cross. They're in that bracket with South Carolina,

the team that is number one in the country, number one in the tournament, finished 32 and 0. Maryland played them earlier in the year. But we haven't talked to Brenda in a while, so Brenda will be on the show. Brenda will follow Ross Tucker, who's coming up here in a few minutes.

And then to end the show, Jeff Jones, former Old Dominion coach, American coach, UVA coach, and we'll talk some men's bracket talk with Jeff Jones. But I wanted to start after, you know, reading Gene's tweet with this. There is some breaking Washington news. Cole Holcomb has signed a deal with the Pittsburgh Steelers. So Cole Holcomb leaves Washington. Yesterday, by the way, J.D. McKissick was waived. John Matzko, the offensive line coach, was cut loose, although there was some talk that he may retain.

tire anyway. And then J.D. McKissick was released as well. We kind of saw that one coming with the injuries, those injuries, man. He was a productive player. I really liked J.D. McKissick. He had a really good 2020 season and was in the midst of a good 2021 season before he got hurt and they got hurt again. But I really liked J.D. McKissick. And I thought he was incredibly impactful as a player here. But his career may be in jeopardy at this point. But, you know, yesterday Jeremy Reeves was tendered as well. So we'll see what happens with respect to contract talks with him, but he was tendered. And I think Jeremy Reeves ends up being back on the roster. The Matsko thing real quickly, look, Eric B. Enemy has the right to do whatever he wants to do. I said that about Ron Rivera

when everybody was complaining about the Carolina connections and all of the Carolina people were coming And I don't have any issue with a new head coach or in this case, a new offensive coordinator with a ton of autonomy. Being able to pick his coaching staff, and by the way, being intimately involved in picking the players as well. So I think he's going to be involved in picking players. The players that they selected in free agency, the offensive players, Gates and Wiley, I think Eric B. Enamee was intimately involved in that, for sure. sure. And I think he should be. They gave him a ton of autonomy. You don't want him at the end of his first year if the results are sort of halfway to say, well, I didn't get a chance to hire my staff, or I didn't get a chance to contribute to picking players. That's not the way it's going to work here.

So Eric B. Enemy's got a ton of autonomy in this season upcoming. But anyway, Cole Holcomb, the breaking news today signs a deal with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Actually a really good fit for a player coming off an injury. A player that, from my understanding, is a player that Washington wanted to keep. He was, by the way, really a Jay Gruden find

at North Carolina. Gruden was the one that really fell in love with his tape, fell in love with him, and wanted the team to draft him. But Holcomb signs elsewhere in Pittsburgh. So, you know, they added Cody Barton. They've got Jamie Davis. They've got a need for some linebackers too here. David Mayo was a quick one-year signy.

But that's kind of where we are on that. So Cole Holcomb to Pittsburgh. Yesterday, by the way, after the podcast, Andy Dalton to Carolina, which now leaves, you know, the quarterback market thinning for backup quarterbacks or in the case of a guy like Jacoby Brissette or maybe even Baker Mayfield, you know, guys that can be backups and mentors, I would put Brissette into that category, not Mayfield, for Sam Howell, but can also start if it doesn't work out for Sam Howell.

My preference now that Andy Dalton's gone, the top of my list, it would be Jacoby Brissette. You know, that would be my number one choice. Kime reported yesterday that at the top of my list, The top of Washington's list was Gardner Minshu, Jacoby Brissette, and Cooper Rush, the Cowboys quarterback, who beat Washington this year and played pretty well for Dallas when Dak Prescott was out. By the way, Kimes also tweeting now that Cam Sims, Tyler Larson, and F.A. Obata, he wouldn't

be surprised if they end up elsewhere. They are unrestricted free agents. Slay released by the Eagles, that was reported earlier in the week, but it becomes official today at 4 p.m. Man, was Slay good last year, I thought. I think Slay, and by the way, the matchups between Slay and McClorn, but I would imagine with Slay that he's going to get too much money, and by the way, he'll probably be interested in a team that's got a chance to win. I mean, he was with Philadelphia last year. I would imagine, you know, this being the beginning of the end of his career, he's going to want to go win somewhere.

But Washington will be in the market for a corner. I mean, most of the mocks have them taking, you know, a guy like Witherspoon from Illinois. I don't know if Wetherspoon will be there. Offensive lines still in play. Washington at 16, if they don't move up for, you know, a quarterback, which I would have no issue. you with if they really like a quarterback. But they're going to have, you know, opportunities for a good corner, for a good offensive lineman, maybe a tight end at 16 is a possibility.

Anyway, all right, let's get to Ross Tucker. All right. Jumping on with us right now is Ross Tucker at Ross Tucker NFL, lots of podcasts, lots of businesses. He is an entrepreneur, not just a sports content provider and former NFL player will talk about some of his entrepreneurial endeavors here shortly. But I want to talk a little bit of Washington with you, but by the time people listen to this, maybe the Aaron Rogers thing is over. But what is Aaron Rogers doing right now, Ross?

Yeah, I mean, the more information that comes out, Kev, it really feels like it's not even about Aaron Rogers anymore. You know, it seems like Aaron wanted to go to the Jets. The Packers want to move on from him. The Jets won him. Now it feels like both the Jets and the Packers feel like they're in a situation where they have the leverage over the other one. And I'm a little surprised that they hadn't agreed to terms

if that's, in fact, what's still going on before this? You know, I mean, what was the delay? what was the wait. They could have agreed the term, you know, waiting for Rogers to confirm that he was going to play football this year. But it seemed like the Packers realized the Jets have no place else to go a quarterback, and they have to get Rogers at this point, whereas the Jets realized, well, the Packers want to move on from him. They don't want to pay him the $60 million. So they don't have anything else to do other than trade him to us. Both teams think they have the ultimate leverage over the other right now,

and they're trying to use it to get the best deal they can, it feels like. Well, that's interesting because I actually had not thought of it from that perspective, because I think that the narrative here over the last couple of days is we're watching narcissism on full display from Rogers, including the wish list that he put out for Cobb and Lazard, who ends up signing with the Jets and Beckham Jr. and Mercedes, Lewis, etc. but actually that makes sense because ultimately, I mean, if the Jets are the only interested team, they have a little bit of leverage in certainly the money aspect of the deal.

Because I've said all along, look, what the Jets have to give up is going to be a function of how much of Aaron Rogers' salary they're going to have to eat. If the Packers eat a lot of it, they'll have to give up more. If they don't, they'll have to give up less, right? That's pretty much it. Yeah, it doesn't feel like the Packers want to pay any of it because they're already going to take a $40 million cap hit when they trade him. And that's fine. I mean, the Jets can work out a new contract with him that, you know, he still gets his $60 million guarantee, but they tack a couple years on it for cap space, all those things that teams do all the time. What I think is more interesting is, you know, they're supposedly fighting over draft.

pick compensation. And I don't know, I saw where Schaefter said recently that the Packers were looking for two ones, which is just comical to me. I mean, you know, I think objectively, I don't care about the Packers or the Jet. I think the Packers

are being unfair. I mean, first of all, the team president came out, made it very clear they want to move on. Right. They don't want to have to pay them $60 million. They don't want to be their quarterback. They don't have any other suitors. And, you know, they said two ones to the Matthew Stafford.

Well, part of the reason why the Lions got two ones for Stafford is to take the Jerry golf contract off the rammed in at that point, because that was considered a bad one. So I don't know. If I'm the jet, man, I'm probably thinking at some point about signing like Baker Mayfield and just kind of calling the Packers out. There's nothing that prevents you. There's nothing that prevents you from trading Baker then for a. conditional seventh round pick to the bucks or some other team that actually wants them, right? But you could kind of, you could scare the

bejes out of the Packers at that point. All right, let's just jump to the conclusion that this deal happens, because I actually think that's a fairly safe assumption. Don't you? Yes. Okay. It's going to happen. So how good will the Jets be? Do you consider them to be a contender in the AFC with Aaron Rogers in that roster?

Yeah, I mean, I think I consider them to be a contender, certainly in the AFC East. The problem is at that point, it's just incredible the imbalance of power when it comes to the quarterback position. I mean, you then look at the

AFC, I mean, Mahomes isn't going anywhere. Herbert and the Chargers feel like they're coming along here. I think Russell Wilson can't be worse with Sean Payton as his head coach. Even just in the AFC East, you know, the bills are still going to be very good.

the dolphins are loading up with two on his rookie contract. I mean, it's tough. You know, we obviously know about the Bengals. I certainly think the Jets will be in the mix. I mean, I think what is interesting to me is pretty much immediately makes New England the worst team in the IFC. Yeah. And maybe even not by a small margin, which is just a stunning thing to say out loud.

Yeah, it is. And you didn't even mention Trevor Lawrence and where Jacksonville's coming. It's really amazing the difference in quarterbacks in the two. conferences. Speaking of quarterbacks in the AFC, what happens with Lamar Jackson? Yeah, I think he probably ends up, I mean, I think he's going to play for the Ravens. I think the only

question is, does he just do the one-year franchise tag, or does it end up being a three-year fully guaranteed deal? Because he sort of intimated on Tuesday that he had been offered three years, $133 million fully guaranteed.

and, you know, he's turned that down. I can't say I totally understand that one, you know, especially with him with the injury to continue to go to year to year. I mean, he's only supposed to make $32 million this year. You know, no one's going to give him the Deshaun Watson contract. They're just not. You know, I think there's some people wondering if maybe your commanders, Kev, are waiting in the wings to try to give them.

him a deal and give up the two first round picks, that would really be something else. Although, I just, I mean, you know what it's like in that area. I just think the Ravens would match it at that point. I don't think it's what they want to do, but I think if the commanders did that, then Bashadhi could at least say to his fellow owners, look, this isn't me. I didn't want to do this. You know, Dan did this, and I just matched it. You know, I wasn't going to give him this deal.

I'm on the same side as you guys, but that evil Dan, did it again, and that's why I had to match it. Yeah, I think the, and I've answered this a few times with people who have been on this show, I think the issue is right now, Dan selling the team, knock on wood, I mean, pray to God that it happens. And, you know, the amount that might be due upon signing on a massive contract like that, and I'm not talking about the escrow deal, we learned more about the escrow deal earlier this week. They wouldn't even be on the hook for the escrow for the guaranteed money until actually next March 31st in 2024. But still, you sign him to a guaranteed deal in the Deshaun Watson range. There's going to be a lot of money

do it signing. And I just don't see them coming out of pocket that kind of money on the way out here. That would be my feeling about Jackson. And I've talked to some people. I don't think that they're interested at all in Jackson. But with respect to Jackson and how this this thing is evolving, Ross. Are you in the camp of, you know, for the lack of a better description, the owners are colluding to make sure that these guaranteed contracts aren't, you know, that they don't become a thing, that the Deshawn Watson contracts are one-off? Or are you in the camp of, look, the guy hasn't finished the last two seasons due to injury?

And the way he plays, he may be vulnerable to more injuries down the road. and no way in hell am I giving him a contract in the same range of Deshaun Watson because that was a terrible contract to begin with. Which camper you win? Definitely more the latter. Now there's no question that the owners don't want to be given out contracts like this. However, let's go back to a year ago when Deshaun Watson told the Browns they were out. And he narrowed it down to the Falcons and the Saints.

and then the Browns came back in and said, okay, we'll give you five years fully guaranteed. And that changed everything. And he said, okay, I'm in. Well, just by that, we know that the Falcons and Saints weren't willing to do that. They weren't willing to give him that contract. And so the only team we know that's willing to do that

for anybody was the Cleveland Brown and they got their guy. By the way, he didn't play very well last year. it didn't go very well. So you combine the fact that the Browns is the only team that was willing to do it for Watson with the injury history of Lamar Jackson the last couple years and the fact that you'd have to give up two first-round picks for the right to give him that. I just don't see another team doing it for all of those reasons. So netted out on Jackson.

You see him back in Baltimore, but do you see him back on the non-exclusive tag this year? because nobody matches it, or do you see him on a long-term deal? Well, I would like to see him sign a three. They really gave him a three-year fully guaranteed deal. I would love to see him sign that. Yeah, definitely. I don't think he's going to. I don't think he's going to.

I think he's pretty set in his ways, and I think he'll play the one year of $32 million franchise tag. And to me, I don't know who's advising him. but even last year, before he was going to be on the fifth year option, they had offered him a five-year deal that had $133 million guaranteed in the first three years. $175 for injury. $175 million for injury, it's come out in the last two days. Yeah, and here's the thing.

Okay, what is the, why are you so concerned about the full guarantee? because, you know, otherwise they could cut you? Okay, well, if you do it year to year like he's doing it, he got, what, $20 million last year, I think, on the fifth year option, something like that. This year will get $32 million on the non-exclusive franchise tag. Then they'll franchise tag him again, and it'll be 20% more than this.

So whatever that is, you know, $38 million or whatever. I mean, he's way behind. He'll be way behind where he would have been. And by the way, if you're concerned is that after three years when none of the money is fully guaranteeing more that they can cut you, isn't that what you're trying to achieve right now in the first place? You're trying to be a free agent. You're trying to get free. Well, if they cut you, then you got what you wanted.

You're free. I don't understand the logic, and I haven't. I don't understand it either. All right. You're close to Philadelphia. what kind of deal is Jalen Hertz going to get in this offseason? A lot. Yeah.

I'm really curious. I haven't talked to anybody there. But, you know, I'm quite sure the Eagles would rather get it done with him before the Burrow contract comes out, before the Herbert contract comes out. But who knows? I mean, if you're Jaylen Hertz, maybe you're not in a hurry. Maybe you want those guys to sign first to up the ante. Although I think the Daniel Jones contract is enough.

for him to be able to work off of and get a really, really good contract. I mean, at this point, he's the best quarterback in the NFC. It's really unbelievable. I mean, and maybe the only quarterback in the NFC was like a top 10 quarterback. I have to go down and list it. No, Cousins is close. Cousins is close. People are sitting there going, Sheen, are you going to butt in and say Kirk Cousins because

I'm a massive Cousins fan? Cousins is close to top 10 right now. Yeah, no, I agree. I'm a Cousin's guy as well. I think he's probably, you know, 10, 11, 12, somewhere in there. But, yes, I mean, the point is, you know, it's, I mean, Hertz's going to get a lot of money. He timed it exactly right. But the Eagles still do have one year left on his rookie contract.

I wouldn't mess around. And then they could franchise him. And then they could franchise him. So, you know, I think they want to give him a lot of money, but, you know, they have, also have some leverage on their side. All right. I know you don't have a ton of time. So let me wrap it up with this before we talk about what you're doing with one of your several entrepreneurial endeavors. So Washington, you know, is going right now with Sam Howe as the de facto QB1. And basically, you know, I think what we all understand here in D.C. is it's his job to lose,

but they're looking for kind of a veteran to come in. Dalton's, gone. Chad Henney said no. There isn't a lot out there right now. Brissette's probably the best of what's remaining. Do you have any, I mean, just thoughts on Brissette or Marriota or Mayfield or Bridgewater because there's, you know what? I actually should back up. Do you have a strong feeling one way or the other on Sam Hal? Well, let me ask you something real quick. If Henney is the guy that the commanders tried to get? Yeah, it was, Schaefter reported that Henny was reached out to,

and there were a couple of people to confirm that it was Washington, because Bianami, you know, wanted to get Henny, I'm sure, in the building. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, the only reason why I ask that, it's because Chad's from my hometown and I'm good friends with him. Yeah.

So I've seen the report that a team reached out to him. That makes sense with Bieni in Washington. You know, it's not far from our home. hometown in eastern Pennsylvania to Washington. That's probably had to be tempting for him. It's probably like a two-hour drive. Right. To 2-15.

Yeah. Right. So that's interesting. I don't know. If we're really flying between Philly and D.C., we can do it in about an hour and 55 minutes. Hour and 50 minutes. I've done it in that before. But go ahead.

Nice. Nice. So, first of all, Sam, Sam, Al. It's interesting. Good timing, because on Monday's Ross Tucker Football Podcast, I had Sean King, you know, the former quarterback on my show. He loves him. Yeah, he loves him.

He said, first of all, he thought he was the best quarterback coming out last year. And secondly, he said he talked to Biennini about him, and Bionke's fired up about him. And he also thought that the commanders made a big stake last year by not playing him after Wendt went down. You know, I mean, they kind of already knew what they had in Hineke. And I knew, look, Hineke, he beat the Eagles. He did some really positive things, and maybe Ron Rivera felt like he needed to do that to win, but it kind of put him behind in terms of where Sam Howe could be at this point. So I never really understood how Sam Howe went from a first round pick and presumptive

number one overall pick going into his junior year to the fifth round, because the receivers around him weren't as good and he ran the ball more. That is strange to me that people watched him sophomore year when he had those good receivers and said, he's the only guy I have a first round grade on, and then he ends up going in the fifth. That was a little bit of a head scratcher for me. So I'm excited to see what he could do. I hope he does get the chance to play. And in terms of those other guys, I don't know, man.

They're like all the same to me at this point, which is to say they're not the guy. They're not the answer. I thought Percette played well last year. I still think there might be something there with Baker Mayfield in the right situation, but it's probably unlikely that Baker Mayfield, the fourth team, is going to be the charm for him, you know?

Yeah, I mean, the thing about Hal is just, it was strange because when they were eliminated with Carson Wentz playing against Cleveland, Ron Rivera didn't even want to start Sam Hal in the season finale, which was a game. against the Cowboys that amounted to a preseason game for Washington. Taylor Heineke had to talk him in to giving Sam Hal that start. And look, he played well. He completed 11 passes on 19 attempts, but he ran the ball well, and there's some intrigue there. But, you know, it wasn't like,

you know, he came out and looked like Mahomes did in his final game of that Alex Smith season. But you prompted a thought, oh, do you think Matt Staff? efforts done. Do you think this UCLA injury that he's done, which is why we saw some of the reports that maybe the Rams were willing to part with him? Well, it's the, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, a, and I think there's a decent chance that he is done because that's what

end in my career in Washington. You know, at least when I was there, and I forget the guy's name, but, my understanding was if you have a bruised spinal cord and mine was because of my C5, C6 in my neck, they don't let you play unless you have surgery to fix it because they can't take the chance that that herniated disc in your neck hit your spinal cord again. So I was kind of given a basically full, you know, surgery or retire, and I chose to retire. and so I'm very curious because supposedly Stafford's not having surgery on his neck, but I don't know that you're allowed to play with a bruised spinal cord neck injury

without having surgery to fuse to the vertebrae who doesn't happen again. So I've been saying for a long time, and I don't know exactly Matthew's neck issue or whatever, but he's supposed he has a bruised spinal cord in his neck. And I'm just going based on my experience, which is that until he has the surgery, I'm assuming he's not playing. Yeah. He certainly didn't look right when he was out there last year. That's for sure. All right.

You've got this business, which we've talked about before, my front page story.com. It's a great gift idea with things like Mother's Day and Father's Day right around the corner. tell everybody about it. Well, that's the thing. I mean, first of all, you can do it for any birthday or anniversary, but you're right. I mean, we're less than two months away from Mother's Day. Nobody ever knows what to get people for Mother's Day.

Get them a story written all about them and just get it done now. Don't dilly-dally. Don't procrastinate. It's really nice feeling to get a story or a gift for somebody this early and know that you've got it taken care of. Your mom will absolutely, I'm just telling you right now, everybody listening, it'll be the, best gift you've ever given your mom because no one has ever written a story that looks like

it's on the cover of the Washington Post all about her with a beautiful picture of her and the kids or the grandkids. I'm just telling you guys, my front page story.com, it's like the gift that keeps on giving. She'll have it hanging up in the house forever. Every time you go visit her with the kids or whatever, be like, hey, look, there's what your daddy gave me. Yep, exactly. Myfrontpage story.com. Ross Tucker is the host of the Ross Tucker Football Podcasts and of course you can follow him on Twitter at Ross Tucker NFL

Always enjoyed doing this Hope you're well Let's do it again soon Likewise thanks for having me Kiv All right up next The Head Women's Basketball coach At the University of Maryland Brenda Freeze will be our guest

We'll get to that right after these words From a few of our sponsors Joining us right now is the head basketball coach for Maryland. Brenda Freeze. The Terps are the two-seed in the Greenville number one region. South Carolina is the number one team in that region. Terps play Holy Cross Friday at Xfinity, roughly 2.30 start following the Arizona-West Virginia game. Great opportunity to get out and see the Lady Terps in the first two rounds, hopefully the first two rounds.

This is, you know, this is Brenda's 21st year at Maryland. Brenda replaced another legend as she's become a legend on her own in Chris Weller all the way back in 2002. Three final fours, a national championship, you know, an annual, you know, top five, top six, seven program in the country, always a contender. When you came from Minnesota 21 years ago, did you think you'd still be here? No, I mean, I was just hoping I could get a contract extension, to be honest with you. I was very, you know, unknown at that time and, you know, wanted to see if I could make that next big jump after Minnesota. And here we are, 21 years later. You really were kind of unknown because it was only one year, if my memory serves me correctly at Minnesota.

And, you know, what, what made, what attracted Debbie Yao to you brought you to, brought you to, Maryland, and this turned out to be, you know, obviously a Hall of Fame career that you're in the midst of? Well, you know, I can't say enough about Debbie Yao, and she's always had, you know, a love for women's basketball. I think, you know, having coached, she really had her eye and knew what she was looking for, wanted a young, up-and-coming coach. I had just been named AP Coach of the Year and saw something in me way before I did, to be

quite honest. And it was a perfect time when you talk about having the ability to be mentored by an athletic director, a female athletic director in Debbie Yao who had coached and, you know, who would have ever thought four years later were wasting that trophy to beat Duke in the national championship games. So all the things that came with it, I'm just really grateful that I had such a mentor and an AD that believed it like Debbie. You know, you're from the Midwest, played at Arizona. And we'll get to your team in the tournament here in a moment, but we don't get a chance to talk to Brenda that often. And I'm just curious, like, when you got here, we know what this area is in terms of men's basketball and the potential that Maryland men's basketball has had,

winning a national championship in 2002, and being in one of the best fertile recruiting areas in the country, having a program with such tradition, which your program has as well. is it the same when it comes to women's basketball in terms of being a hotbed for talent? It really is, and that's what drew me was looking at the DMB, you know, seeing the tradition that Chris Weller had had previously before me, the national attendance, the records that they were breaking with that. So once I got here, absolutely, you could see just the talent base in the DVs, DMV, the surrounding area, we can recruit nationally.

And we've got a lot to be able to sell, you know, in the backyard of the nation's capital. Yeah, for sure. And you've done an incredible job of attracting some of the best talent, local talent, to the area. And we'll ask you about your best player this year. And your second best player, who, by the way, went to Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda, which isn't necessarily, you know, the all-time powerhouse for sports. But I'm an alma mater. I'm an alum from there.

and I saw Abby when she played there. But let's talk about your team. Look, you've had a lot of great teams. You have more than just a hunch about your team this time of year. You know what you have. So compare this team heading into the NCAA tournament to some of your best. I put them right up there. And what separates them not only is their talent, it's the chemistry piece.

And when you have that kind of piece that they play for one another, They want to play the right way. They're unselfish. They're not worried about stats, which is really hard to do nowadays. This group has it. And I think they've shown it where there were a lot of doubters in the offseason, so many new faces as we brought in nine new players. But all this group has done is they've bought in.

They've put their head down at work and been extremely unselfish and already has more wins than last year, you know, number two seed, one of the top eight teams in the country, so we're excited about what lies ahead in the tournament. The Big Ten was awesome this year. The games with Iowa, in particular, and Caitlin Clark, you know, the second game in College Park much better than the first one, and then the, you know, the ACC, the ACC, the Big Ten final. How did the Big Ten and the league's strength, especially at the top, prepare you for what's coming up? No question. When you look at it, it's the,

deepest, most talented conference in the country and those games, those battles, to be able to, you look at all the one and two seeds that the Big Ten has in the NCAA tournament tells you everything you need to know. So we're thrilled the fact that, you know, not only between our conference plate or non-conference play, we feel like all those games have really prepared us for March. Has the Big Ten been for you what you thought it would be, you know, obviously a lot of, you know, those of us that are alums and major basketball fans hated it when we left the ACC. But now I've actually, Brenda, become very used to it. I love, you know, the venues and the competition and I've gotten used to it. But is it the same? Like, what did you think at the beginning

and what do you think now of Maryland's move now eight years later in the Big Ten? I think, you know, like most people, it changes hard. I think everyone was shocked, myself included. I left the Big Ten to come play or coach at Maryland and coached in the ACC, so I was just as surprised as everyone else. But honestly, as you can see when you go through change, it's been a great fit. And we've been able to come in and, you know, have a lot of success within the league. And, you know, the television package, in my opinion, is a lot better. I could see that after the first Big Ten game we played in conference,

and I liken the amount of texts I received from people watching like an NCAA tournament game. The fan base, the attendance, you know, sellouts when we go on the road, and the fan base is so much higher. So we're loving it. And, you know, I think it continues to show that, you know, change can be a positive thing. Five regular season Big Ten titles and the other years. finishing second in the Big Ten, so it's been a good run. All right. Tell me about Diamond Miller. How good is she?

Well, she's, you know, all indications going to go top two to three in the WNBA draft. So I think you see right there, I mean, you know, the versatile, long six-three, you know, type of player that, you know, has put this team on her back and has shown everyone, you know, how to play the right way and has trusted her teammates. going to have a really, really successful pro career when it's all done and finished, but we're ready to take her as far as possible in this tournament. How about Abby Myers in the addition of Abby to the team, a local out of Bethesden, Walt Whitman High, how important has she been to the success you've had this year?

Really, really important. And, you know, we lost some of that leadership and that experience. And so, you know, just from day one, she's come in and, you know, brought everyone along. She's not been afraid to really lead and use her voice. And then she's really, really talented. I mean, in her, you know, four years. And then now her COVID year here at Maryland, she's been, you know, exactly what we needed from, you know, a scoring piece, an intangible piece, a leadership piece.

She does it all. All right. I'm going to ask you about South Carolina. I know that's down the road hopefully, but let me first ask you about Holy Cross. How do you guys match up? What are the keys to a win on Friday over Holy Cross at Xfinity? Well, I think, you know, any team that you play now in the NCAA tournament is there for a reason. They've had a lot of success, and Holy Cross is no different.

They're really well-coached team. Coach McGarity is, you know, her dad is a well-known coach, and she's come from a great pipeline and Patriot League champions. And, you know, they play hard. They make the right plays. They, you know, have had a lot of success in their conference. But for us, you know, coming out and playing the way we know how to play, I mean, we've worked hard to be able to host these two games

and we want to play two games here in Xenities. So playing the way we know how to play is going to be the most important thing. By the way, you know, overall, has the game just become, a much deeper game. And, you know, these first round upsets are more likely now than they were, say, 10, 15 years ago? It really has.

When I watch film now compared to where it was 10, 15 years ago, you could maybe just kind of get through that first game and it was no problem. And, you know, you got to remember that our game is about 25 years behind the men. So I think now is where you're just

finally starting to see all of that parody in our game where, you're You can't guess from night to night who's going to win and by how much. So it makes it a lot more exciting. All right. In your region, the number one seed, the number one team in America, they're 32 and O. You played them very early in the season in College Park, South Carolina. They barely even had a close game this year.

I think the Yukon game may have been the closest game they had all year. You've seen great women's basketball teams over the years, and you've been a part. of some of them as well. How good is South Carolina? Very good, very good. And, you know, they also have a great advantage being in their backyard in Greenville, South Carolina. So lucky us, you know, if we're fortunate to be able to play them, it'll be a home game for them in Greenville. But you still got to play the game. And I think for us, you know, the great thing is, is we played them very first game of the season at Exfinity. our players are comfortable.

They know their game, and it was without Diamond Miller. She didn't get to play in that game. So it was a four-point game at a half time, got away from us in the second half with the new roster. So I hope we get that matchup. That means we're in the elite eight game going either team to work to go to a final four. So we would welcome that matchup. Yeah, and you're probably a much different team. You mentioned, you know, Diamond Miller not being there, but you've won 18 out of your last 21

and had some big-time heavyweight matchups, especially with Iowa and Indiana. So you think you'd be ready for that one? Yeah, we're absolutely excited. We want that match-up. That would, you know, again, mean that we're in the elite aid. During March Madness, anything's possible. And everyone has to put their, you know, lace their shoes the same way

and tip it off, and we would be excited for the matchup. Well, you got three before that. good luck on Friday and moving forward. Thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it, Brenda. Yeah, thank you so much. Go Terps, indeed. Thank you, Brenda Freeze.

That was fun. Up next to finish up the show, Jeff Jones, head coach at Old Dominion. Of course, Jeff was the head coach at American University. Before that at Virginia, player at Virginia. We'll talk NCAA tournament brackets.

Get his thoughts on some teams, some coaches, get some picks from Jeff right after these words from a few of our sponsors. The NCAA tournament first four games are underway. We get the first round tomorrow. The first game of the first round is Maryland and West Virginia. And joining us right now is somebody we've had on basically, I think, for several years running this time of year to talk tournament when he's not been in the tournament,

although we've had you on when you've been in the tournament as well. is the head coach at Old Dominion University, Jeff Jones, of course, the longtime A.U coach. And before that, the longtime Virginia coach. And before that, the longtime Virginia point guard for four years in the late 70s and the early 80s. And actually, I haven't talked to you about your career as much because usually we're just previewing games and talking about games. But I did ask you this before we started recording and you said you haven't watched it. but I've pushed the ACC tournament documentary as something that is really, really well done, and it runs on the ACC network. And anybody that's been an ACC basketball fan or participated like you did,

I think it's like a must watch. Now, you said you have not watched it, even though you were interviewed and you're a part of one of the episodes, if not two of the episodes. But recently, I caught up on a couple of episodes, Jeff, that I had not watched. and it was that era of Virginia with Ralph Samson. You know, you were, I think, a sophomore when he came on, right? Were you a sophomore when Ralph was a freshman? Yes.

Or as they would say in Charlottesville, I was second year. You were second year, yeah. Charlottesville has a whole different way of talking. They don't say North Carolina, they say Chapel Hill. They don't say Virginia Tech, they say VPI. That's what I've noticed about my UVA friends. But anyway, I digress. The part about Ralph's time at Virginia was so fascinating because Carolina was great.

Virginia was great. Even though the hype with Ralph, he didn't necessarily live up to it at his freshman year. You guys went to the final four his second year, but that was the only final four he made it to. And you guys lost to Carolina in the semis, which by the way was the year that Reagan was shot on the Monday of the championship game against Indiana. In fact, you know what? Did you guys play? Was that third place game still around then at the final four? Yeah, that was the last one.

And we were perfectly okay if we didn't play that. You know, that was difficult getting excited about that after our hopes of playing for a national championship were dashed. But yeah, that was the last one of the game. consolation games. And was it against LSU? Was that the other Final Four team? Yes, that was Dale Brown, Gus Rudolph, Maclin. Yeah, McClain. Rand Macklin? Yeah. Rudy Maclin, right? John Jones, I think, who is coaching Texas Southern I think now.

Ronnie Jones was the point guard. Well, let me ask you, because all day long, Reagan got shot. that day in March of 1981, you know, at the Washington Hilton right there on Connecticut Avenue and Upper Northwest. And there was discussion as to whether or not the championship game between Isaiah Thomas's Indiana team and North Carolina would be played. Do you remember much about that day and whether or not they just, you know, were considering not playing the third place game? They definitely considered not playing. And as I said, I do remember that day because, you know, we were, to start the day, you know, we were planning on playing our normal routine.

And then when we found out that President Reagan had been shot and that there was some debate over whether or not we should play, I think as players for that consolation game, you know, we would have been fine. We would have been happy if we didn't play that consolation game. Did you win the consolation game or lose it? I forget. I wouldn't have remembered that one anyway. You won it. Okay. So what I started with before I got sidetracked on that,

because I just remember that you guys would have perhaps played that consolation game, is just the Ralph era. You were there for it. You were his point guard for sophomore, junior and for freshman sophomore and junior years for him. I kind of feel like, and I've always said this, that Ralph is still one of the top three or four college basketball players I have ever watched. Now, I was an ACC person. And so I was watching a lot of those games and some of those massive games with Carolina,

you know, some of those massive matchups between Buck Williams and Ralph Sampson. He never got back to a final four. And I think some people, I think short shrift his college career somewhat. Do you agree with me or disagree? Without a doubt, you know, we did make it back to the final four. In my senior year, O'Fell Wilson gets hurt in the ACC tournament, and we're not full speed, and we end up losing to actually to UAB on their home court. Then UAB lost to Louisville to go to the final four.

And then obviously, NC State knocked us off in the ACC tournament, and then I think it was out in Boise. I think it was in Boise to go to the final four. Routts senior year. Right. So we came up short. A couple things about that. You know, it wasn't just Routes that didn't get there.

You know, we didn't get there. And, you know, we've got, we, Ralph's teammates have to take, you know, some of the responsibility. It wasn't all en route. You know, he was obviously our best player, the best player in the country. But, you know, we needed to play better, you know, whether it's myself or Lamp or Rick Carlisle in 83, Othell Wilson. You know, we all needed to play better. So it doesn't all fall on Ralph.

But I'll do a comparison just to give you an idea. If you compare Ralph Samson and Tim Duncan, right? And Tim Duncan is considered one of the, what, top 10 players of all time in the NBA? Yep. And then people obviously have, you know, very strong opinions, favorable opinions of Tim Duncan. And then, you know, and they should. Ralph Samson was a far more dominant and better college player than Tim Duncan. It wasn't close.

I agree. Both in terms of what the teams did and what they did individually. But I don't know that because of Ralph's pro career, that people look back or, you know, have the perception. of Ralph being, you know, that great a player in college, which he certainly was. Yeah. I want to make sure that, because you said that you did make it back to a final four, but it wasn't with Ralph. It was the eight, you talked about the lost UAB and then that, you know, the famous, the final four came in 84 with that team that made it surprisingly without Ralph to the final four. Yeah.

spoke. We didn't make it back to the Final Four after 80. Yeah. And that game, you know, that Final Four was a really close game with Houston. I remember that. And that was the year Georgetown won it in 84 beating Houston in the final. By the way, were you on that coaching staff with Terry? I was. And we made that game so ugly. We played a box in one and dared them to shoot. There wasn't the three-pointers. that point and we just packed it in on Olajuan and it was a really ugly final four game for sure but that's I mean that's how we had to do it I mean we were big big big time underdogs in that 84 final four yeah and it was the year before obviously that NC State in Valvano pulled off the 54 52 final and an ugly game too without a shot clock and a three-pointer in one of the

biggest upsets in college basketball history. But I, yeah, if you get around to it, I mean, I think you would enjoy it. But for any longtime ACC basketball fan, that ACC tournament documentary, which is like 10 parts, and by the way, for Maryland fans, there are so many great episodes with Lefty and Gary and the great Maryland teams of the 70s and then, you know, 80s, 90s, you know, 2000s, et cetera. It's just so well done. But the part with Ralph and those Virginia teams that you were a part of was fascinating as well.

And that actually reminds me, and I'll just ask you, obviously, you played for Terry Holland, you coached with Terry Holland, you replaced Terry Holland when he retired, and Terry Holland passed away a couple of weeks ago. What are your thoughts on Terry Holland and your, you know, the relationship that you had with him for so many years? I wouldn't have, A, I wouldn't have gotten into coaching, I don't think, or certainly not, you know, at the level that I did without, you know, Coach Holland, you know, allowing me to join. I was with Golden State briefly that fall when the season started, the NBA season started, and Coach Holland saved me a spot. And, you know, had it not been for that, who knows what I would have been doing. You know, he, everybody, you know, talks about, you know, him being such a, you know, a gentleman and he was.

But he was a fierce competitor as well. And, you know, one of the smartest people I've ever been around. And he was conversational on so many things because he read, he, you know, he had a thirst for knowledge. You know, he was a guy that, you know, just being around him, you know, he was so, so interesting because he was so well-versed in so many things. You know, I think his coaching philosophy was very different than maybe a lot of folks. You know, he had core principles, but there was never a system. He strongly believed, and I do as well, having learned from him, that our job as coaches is not to take players and put them into a lot.

It's to put our players in situations where they can be successful. And that means, you know, evaluating your own players every single year and how they all fit together. And, you know, I think that's what he did really, really well. And, you know, we had a style, I guess you would say, but so much varied from year to year because of his ability. to evaluate the team and figure out how we could be successful. Yeah, nicely said.

All right, let's talk brackets. Let's talk NCAA tournament. I'm going to start with the team from your league, which you actually beat this year. But Louisiana is a bit of a chic first round 13 over four upset pick against Tennessee tomorrow. Do you think they can do it? I'd love, you know, Bob Marlin is the coach at Louisiana, and he's like me, he's been around the long time. I'd love for them to do it. I just don't see it. Tennessee is, you know, they've got the link, and they're really, really good defensively.

I don't see Tennessee making a really deep run simply because I think offensively they struggle, and you've got to be able to score in addition to play defense. and, you know, make a deep run. But I do think Tennessee's defense will really make it difficult for Louisiana. Louisiana, by the way, their best player, Jordan Brown, was the player of the year in our league. He's a former, you know, top 50, top 100, whatever, big man that went to Nevada, went to Arizona, and then he's ended up in Louisiana. He's one of these multi-school transfers.

He's pretty talented. But I just think Tennessee defensively, they've just got too many bodies. By the way, did you coach against Rick Barnes when you were at UVA and he was at Clemson and the ACC? Yeah, yeah. I know Rick well. Don't you think, I mean, I've always said about Rick Barnes. He's played it well going to all football schools, right? You know, Clemson, Texas.

and Tennessee where the pressure's really never on him. But he's one hell of a coach. He is won everywhere he's gone. And his teams have always had that kind of hallmark of just being so tough and physical defensively. Well, you know, it's funny because clearly they are. But I think he reads it. At Texas, you know, he got a lot of great players. They were very talented.

and I'm not saying they didn't play defense, but they didn't have that same toughness and emphasis. You know, they had guys, you know, like Durant. I mean, you know, that really could score, and they were a high scoring group. And, you know, he's gone to Tennessee, and, man, they're just, I mean, defensively, they're, you know, they're right there with Virginia and San Diego State and some of these other, you know, really, really great defensive programs,

not teams, but programs. And I think, you know, he's shown that, you know, maybe leopards can change their spots at times. Gary Williams told me many years ago, you can win, and Virginia proved him wrong a couple of years ago. But you can win three, four games being a great defensive team, but you can't win six. You've got to be able to score, and you've got to be able to score efficiently. Do you agree with that? Yes. That's why I think Tennessee and Virginia.

some of those teams, you know, I don't think they're legitimate, they're good teams. They're really good teams, but I don't think they're legitimate candidates to win the national championship. You know, you just have to, you know, you just have to score the basketball, you know, at a higher rate. All right. So who are the teams that you really like going into this tournament? Well, you know, Alabama is one. You know, I think that, you know, they've got the talent. They're just so young. That would be the one thing that maybe they're so young that they don't know what they're getting themselves into.

But, you know, they're going to be good. I really, you know, we were talking about Texas with Rick Barnes. I think Texas is a team that, you know, could make their way out of that. Houston, obviously, is the number one seed. They're a really good team. You know, there's the question about whether. Whether it Sasser, it's going to be able to play. And especially on, you know, that back-to-back kind of thing,

that Thursday, Saturday or Friday, Sunday. But, you know, maybe he's able to play at the Thursday, but, you know, can he rebounds, you know, the hamstring or groin, whatever he pulled? Those things are really, really tricky. So I kind of like Texas. And Rodney, Terry, has done an unbelievable job at, at Texas this year. And, you know, maybe they just don't want a distraction, but I cannot

imagine that he's not going to be the coach there after this year. A couple teams I want to ask you about. What do you make of Purdue and running their team through the post and a big 7-foot-4 guy and Zach Edie? What do you think their chances are to finally get over the hump with Matt Painter? He's had some great teams, but they've come up short. Yeah, again, I think you can, you know, you can win games, but ultimately, I think it's going to be the guys surrounding Edie that will determine, you know, how far they really go. I mean, Edy is a dominant player. I mean, it's crazy to see how big he is out there and the impact that he has on the game. But, you know, there were times this year and then Big Ten play, and they had a great

year, but there were times where they looked vulnerable. So I, I, I, there, there, there, not, they're certainly not my pick to, uh, to win the national championship. And in fact, I would probably go with, you know, somebody different, maybe, you know, maybe, maybe Duke, uh, uh, to, to, to, to, to, to win. You like, you like the way they're playing and they've come together. Yeah, I, I, I think so. I think so. I, I think the huge thing for Duke and people talk about, you know, all the, the, the big names, but Roach being healthy. Um, you know, he, he really got to go in at this time last year and was one of the big reasons why they were able to get to the final four and he got healthy right at the time that they started playing better. So I think there's definitely

a big DC tie there. Sure. And that is a potential matchup, by the way, Duke with Purdue in the Sweet 16. And I think a lot of people like Duke in this tournament and a lot of people feel like Duke was underrated. What are your thoughts on Shaka Smart and Marquette, but just Shaka Smart overall and the job he's done everywhere he's been? You know, I think kudos to Shaka this year.

Another coach that has gone through some tough times, you know, gotten some heat, and has reinvented himself. And, you know, he's done an amazing job at Marquette this year without, you know, going to the transfer portal, you know, too much. They may have, you know, a couple, but they play great basketball. I mean, they're forcing the turnovers and doing all that stuff. But offensively, they just, you know, they, at times, I think this year, you know, just ran a

clinic on spacing and playing, you know, offensively, you know, playing, you know, playing. in a kind of a fast-paced, but, you know, great, great spread offense. And I just think it's great. You know, I think you could probably make a case that maybe at one point after he left, you know, VCU and went to Texas, you know, maybe he was a little overrated. You know, he had the big name, but they didn't, you know, they didn't show at Texas. Right. You know, they meet expectations.

But man, has he kind of righted himself and figured it out and just did an unbelievable job this year. So I'm happy to see that he was able to do that. I always like seeing coaches that, you know, if they go through a tough time, figuring out a way and coming out the other end, you know, looking good. That team can score and that team has a draw that I kind of like. You mentioned Duke, you know, outside of the top 16 teams, the top four seeds in each region. Is there another sort of, you know, Duke can hardly be called Cinderella or a sleeper because they're Duke. But is there a team outside the top four seeds in each region that you think could do some real damage?

Outside the top four seats? Yeah. No. I think there's a, you know, a handful, not a lot of teams that I would pick. you know, and I guess upset, I don't know. But, you know, Boise State, you know, over Northwestern, Northwestern, and Chris Collins have had a great year. But I don't see Boise State, you know, going too deep.

I would probably pick St. Mary's over VCU, which I guess they're the five. So I guess that's not an upset there. You know, Penn State is a, team that, you know, as a 10 seed, you know, Texas A&M is playing well, but Penn State because of the way they shoot the three. I could see them if they get hot, you know, winning a couple games. You know, again, I don't see them going to the final four, but any team that's a veteran team that has a great player that really shoots the three, if they get hot at the right time,

you know, they could definitely make some noise. Let me get your thoughts on the team that matters to me most, and that is Maryland. What do you think of their chances against West Virginia, one, and then two, what do you think of the job Kevin Willard's done in his first year here? You know, that to me is a toss-up. You know, West Virginia was a team early in the year. It looked like you could stick a fork in them, and they were done. And somehow in other hugs got them together, and, you know, they came back and finished. strong. You know, Maryland's had some big wins.

You know, seemingly they really struggled to win on the road. So unless that game is being played, I started to say Cole, but unless that game is being played there, you know, they're not going to have that home court advantage. I would call that a toss-up. And the job that Kevin Willard's done here in his first year, Jeff, what have you thought of his first year here in college park?

You know, I think you did a great job. You know, we were actually supposed to play them this year, which is a little bit of a bonus contention, but, you know, they didn't think at one point before the season started that, you know, that they were going to be, they were going to be really good. And I think somehow or another, they got it together. And, you know, they fashioned a real, you know, a successful season this year in Willard's first year.

I would see them continuing to do well. Willard's, you know, an excellent coach. I used to have to match with his father, Ralph Willard, Ralph Willard, and I'm sure, you know, Kevin has learned a lot from his dad. His dad is a great basketball guy. All right. Last one.

Who wins it all? Who do you have cutting down the nets in Houston? Haven't you filled out a bracket yet? No, I never fill out of brackets. Okay. You know, back at A.U, my wife and I would fill a bracket pretty much every year. And she beat you. And she knows enough.

She would beat me consistently. Of course. You know, I'm going to go with Kansas. You know, I mean, what they were able to do without self on the sideline, you know, he's been there before the program. I'm just going to go with them. know if they're the best team, but, you know, I'm going to say them. Jeff Jones, of course, is still at Old Dominion. They had a good season this year. They were 19 and 12, 11 and 7 in the Sun Belt. Louisiana is the team out of that league. We talked about,

you know, the chances against Tennessee. I always enjoy catching up. I appreciate the time. Hope you're well. Thank you, Kevin. I appreciate it. Great to hear your voice. All right. That's it for the show today. Thanks to Jeff, thanks to Brenda Freeze, thanks to Ross Tucker. Back tomorrow with Tommy. We'll try to get the show out early tomorrow before all of the basketball starts.