The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Similarities to 2020

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Kevin opened by responding to some that believe that the start to Washington's 2024 free agency is very similar to the approach Ron Rivera took in 2020. J.I. Halsell/Salary Cap Expert jumped on to talk Washington's approach to free agency so far and what might be next. Kevin finished with news that broke during the show that the Commanders had signed future Hall of Famer Bobby Wagner to a one-year deal.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheon Show. Here's Kevin. The show's presenting sponsor, as always, is Windonation. Call them at 86690 Nation or head to Windonation.com. Mention my name for a free in-home, no-risk estimate.

J.I. Hallsell is going to join us on the show. We've had J.I. on the show many times in the past. a player agent in the NFL, a salary cap expert, formally an employee in the front office with our Washington team. J.I. Halsell coming up in the next segment. This from Marcus and a few other emails slash tweets to start the show. Marcus writes, Sheehan, wow, what a difference a real GM in charge makes.

Adam Peters is remaking the whole roster. Finally, the adults are in charge. This from Rich. Kevin, Adam Peters is slaying it. This is an amazing start to overhauling the roster. This is what they've been missing, a real talent evaluating GM. From Bobby, this is freaking incredible. I haven't been this pumped for the team in years.

We have a new roster. Get the QB right and we're cooking. And then this from Jesse. Washington is winning free agency, exclamation point, exclamation point. Wow, Adam Peters, already for some of you, a candidate for general manager, front office executive of the year. So I'm going to go from benefit of the doubt, Kevin, here in the opening segment, to perhaps for some of you, buzzkill Kevin. Actually, I'm not going to do that. I can be in benefit of the doubt mode and still be a bit questioning for some of you that will be buzzkill.

I can do both things simultaneously because, look, overall, right now, I like what Adam Peters is doing. I do. It's cautious. It's restrained. It's strategic. But I'm thinking that the reason I like what Adam Peters and the front office is doing right now might be different than maybe some of you. have as reasons, the reasons that I have maybe difference than some of the reasons you guys have for what they're doing and how they're doing it right now? Like Adam Peters, all due respect,

isn't slaying or winning free agency right now. That's not, in my opinion, anyway, what's happening. I mean, for starters, it's not something you judge right now. You know, you just don't know. That's like the draft a couple of years down the road where you kind of judge it. The players he is signing aren't, as standalone entities, major impact players on paper. They are, for the most part, you know, mid-tier starters, rotational players, backups, depth. Now, there are a couple of players I like that they've signed. I've already mentioned. I really like Frankie Louvre.

I think that he has a chance to be an impact player for them. Beaudish is such a need for them, and he's already proven he can start. for a really good football team. I like him as a starter for a few years minimum. I like the Jeremy Chin signing. One year, just over 5 million tops. He's proven that when he's healthy, he can play at a very high level. But for the most part, this is from a talent on the field standpoint,

just a high volume class so far in terms of the players they've signed. It might not be super high impact in terms of the performance. on the field. For now, though, on a team that needed, you know, even rotational players to fill starting roles, you know, for a franchise that is looking for, you know, a culture change, they're, you know, they see the locker room culture in maybe a different way than Ron and company saw it, but they're looking to build that culture profile with the players they bring in. You know, they know these players for the most part. I like that. I don't have a problem with that. A lot of teams that aren't just one or two stars away and are looking for,

you know, say a big time wide receiver or a big time corner that they're not familiar with, that the coaching staff or front office isn't familiar with. You can take a shot on some of those players, but most of the teams that are in recalibration or rebuild mode are, you know, going to sign players that they are familiar with. These guys, it's important to them to know these players as people. So I don't have a problem with that at all. They've got a ton of holes on the roster, and they're trying to fill some of those holes.

You know, they need players who have played and produced even in backup roles in other places. And this is what they're accomplishing right now. They have yet to add a big-time contract, a high-risk contract, or a big-time desired free agent, other than Louvo maybe. you know, beatish to a lesser degree. But don't get me wrong.

I like what they're doing. You know, it's not like they have a roster or a team that is just a couple of big free agency swings on impact players away from Super Bowl contention. It's not the position they're in. And they've already told us the draft is the way they're building their roster anyway, which I think we all feel good about. You know, this has been a frenzied two days in terms of volume of new players. But there are things that, you know, compared to these two days and the days that follow in free agency that are much more important, even though we're wrapped up into the volume of announcements and reports, you know, and now, you know, close to, you know, official on all of these deals. I mean, the GM they hired, the coach they hired, the coaching staff they hired.

Number two, in the draft, are really, really important moves. But the foundation, the culture, these are things that are important, being able to be more competitive on defense than they were last year. But some of the reactions, like the ones that I've read, you know, it's fine to be excited about the new regime, and I am too because it's not Dan. And I feel like now there's a chance. but the people who believe that this is just so unique, you know, they're just slaying it, they're winning free agency, it's brilliant. You know, just think back four years, you know, sorry to do this, but think back four years to Ron Rivera's first year, first free agency period, because it's actually not that different

than what's being done right now. Oh my God, a call segment. which free agency period was better. 2020 or what they've done in 2024, that would send some of you off bridges. But Rivera, remember, Ron came into a total mess, horrible roster, a team that went 3 and 13, a team that finished 31st on offense, 27th on defense, a disastrous season with no hope in terms of the roster. Ironically, that group had top ten-ish kind of cap space, had the number two pick overall in the draft, and had a real need to change the culture with the roster, you know, the locker room.

I think it's fair to say that in some ways it was even more challenging in 2020 in terms of the locker room culture. Put aside the fact that, you know, you were in the midst of a pandemic where you couldn't operate in the same way because of physical distancing limitations. You know, everything had to be done on Zoom. You know, not to mention the crazy Snyder stuff and the investigations and the name change and Ron's got cancer and you've got a Trent Williams situation. You've got an Alex Smith situation as he's trying to come back from that horrific, you know, injury. 2020 was an insane offseason, but the football stuff was mostly similar.

Washington was trying to go out and sign players in free agency to sign major holes while also trying to change the culture of the locker room. Very similar to right now. You know, also similar to this year so far anyway. They didn't go nuts spending big in 2020. Kendall Fuller was probably their biggest spend, four years, $40 million. and that's kind of similar to the Lou Vu deal at 3 and 36. But for the most part, you know, they were like Adam Peters this year, calculated, conservative.

You know, the Curtis Samuel and the William Jackson big deals came the next year, not in 2020. They signed a lot of deals that were similar to the deals that we've been witnessing here over the last two days. And some of you are going Gaga over. you know, Kendall Fuller, Logan Thomas, J.D. McKissick, West Schweitzer, Cornelius Lucas, Ronald Darby on a one-year deal, Peyton Barber. You know, these guys were legit contributors, but came in as more, you know, rotational, non-starters in other places, you know, other than Fuller and Darby, maybe. And then guys like Kevin Pierre Lewis and Thomas Davis and Sean Davis, who they cut, by the way, before the season began. They tagged Sheriff, all right? That's a big difference from the situation they're in right now. They didn't tag anybody this year. They also traded a fifth rounder for Kyle Allen,

who was better than Haskins, actually in the starts that he made that year. But, you know, this may upset some of you who are convinced you're seeing something so different than ever before, but do you think you know for sure that what they've done so far this year is going to be better? than what Ron did in 2020? Again, I'm not saying that I'm not thrilled to see Adam Peters and Dan Quinn and the rest of the group and new decision makers in the organization. I'm just saying that this offseason that some of you are just head over heels about isn't that much different so far than what they did in 2020.

You know, let's hope that we get Jeremy Chin to play as well as Darby and Fuller played in Let's hope that Eklers is good as McKissick was in 2020. McKissick caught 80 balls in 2020 out of the backfield. Let's hope Allegretti is better than Schweitzer, who started 13 games. Let's hope that Ertz is better than Logan Thomas, who in 2020 caught 72 balls for 670 yards and six touchdowns. Peyton Barber, by the way, was an excellent short yardage back for the team in 2020. Cornelius Lucas was a revelation as a verse. personal backup and he started eight or nine games. Kevin Pierre Lewis started 11 games for him. Kyle

Allen had, you know, he only started four games, but he had the highest QBR and it wasn't even close in his four starts on the team. They also remember re-signed John Bostic. He started the entire season, and even though he could not run to save his life, he really was the coach on the field for Del Rio that year. that team got better defensively as the season went on and obviously we remember they won a terrible division with a losing record and played in a postseason game

the point here is the combo of Louvo in Chin and Armstrong and Beattish who appear to be the players that most likely will start in terms of the players they've started signed so far by the time we get done here there may be another ad or two and there will be more here in the coming weeks

they have so much space Will they produce more than the 2020 class? I don't know, but it's on paper pretty similar at this point. Long way to go. More players to be at it. The major point here is, I am happy about Adam Peters and Dan Quinn and the staff so far and the approach here in free agency. But to act like this is totally out of the world new

and just an experience that we just haven't had here, That's just completely hyperbolic Like a lot of the reactions these days It's just a bit too much right now From some of you just calm down Players they've added since yesterday's podcast Jeremy Chin to a one-year deal God I love the competitor he is

Big time hitter Versatile you know in the box Over the Top ability runs Great first two years Runner up rookie of the year in 2020 behind Chase young. He's been banged up, you know, and missed games the last two years. But this is an excellent no-brainer, low-risk, high-reward signing. Totally fits the player traits that they're looking for. He and Louvo are my favorites. You know, you want to reel out-on-the-lim

prediction. The defense is going to be better in 2024 than it was in 2023. Of course it will be. It would be almost impossible for it to be worse. The news broke on Jeremy. Reeves as I recorded J.I. Hallsell, which you're going to hear coming up. J.I. Hallsell, I had the conversation with him a little bit earlier. Two-year deal, look, special teams pro-bowler

in 2022. Everybody loves Reeves. Thought there was a chance he would be back. Thought there was a chance somebody like Kleeke Hudson. There are a couple of guys that I think still have a chance to be back. Sadiq Charles since we last recorded the podcast signed elsewhere with

Tennessee. What's next? How about this? The Chargers just cut wide receiver Mike Williams. Big cap savings cut before, you know, free agency, which just began moments ago. Mike Williams is big. Washington has a need for a big receiver. He's 6-4-220-25. He's been very good when he's been healthy. What a tandem, right, over the years with Keenan Allen, with, you know, Philip Rivers, and then. and Justin Herbert. And he's got ties to Anthony Lynn, who was his head coach in San Diego and L.A. And is now here in Washington. That was part of the reason I think Echler landed here.

What about Williams? The big problem, of course, with Williams, he's been injured a bunch. He's going to turn 30 next year. He's coming off a torn ACL. By the way, he tore his ACL in week three last year. He had at that point seven catches for 100. 21 yards and a touchdown through two and a half quarters. I mean, he was dominating in that game. And then he tore his ACL. The year before, good season, fractured his back late in the season.

So that's the problem with a guy like Mike Williams is turning 30 and he's missed a lot of games because he's been injured a lot. I'm in for another receiver this offseason, totally in for another receiver this off season. And the draft is going to offer big time chances when it comes. to wide receivers. But Mike Williams is out there, although I would guess that Mike Williams will have enough, you know, options, and some of them will be to play for a contender. You know, if he had played for Dan Quinn somewhere along the way, I'd say there's a chance. You know, you're going to get him back, that you're going to get him here. And the Anthony Lynn tie is a good one, but I would guess that he'd signed somewhere else.

And I guess Washington's going to look at the draft for a wide receiver. You know, tackle is still a position. You know, Ben Standing predicted that they might be, you know, slow on tackle and free agency and focus more on draft. He also kind of predicted Jeremy Chin would be signed. You still probably, especially if you're going to play Jamon Davis at another spot, could be looking at another linebacker. You could be looking at a corner. Yeah, I mean, that's what I would be thinking right now in terms of what's next. What's next literally is J.I. Hallsill right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

This segment of the show is brought to you by MyBooky. Go to mybooky.orgie. Use my promo code, Kevin D.C. You'll get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. that they've got all of the conference tournament games up, prop bets, contests, all of the March Madness, Men's Tournament, Women's Tournament, lines, totals, money lines, prop bets, plenty of contests there as well. Make My Bookie your March home. You've got to use my promo code, Kevin D.C., to get a cash bonus on your initial deposit. Maryland tonight, a three and a half point favorite over Rutgers in the first game of the

Big Ten tournament. First time the Terps have been playing in this opening round night. Joining us right now is a friend and a many-time guest over the years, but we haven't had Jay-I on the show in a while. But I thought of him last night because, look, Washington's busy. They've, you know, now, as of the recording of this podcast, they've got 12 names. 12 new players, 12 new contracts. They had all of this cap space to begin with. But J.I. also has been through this process from the inside, having worked in an organization,

Washington's organization. In recent years, he's a player agent. He's a salary cap analyst, an expert. You can follow him on X on Twitter at salary cap 101. By the way, what years, I forget what years you were with Washington. Yeah, I was there the 07 and 08 season. So 07 being coach Gives his last season and 08 being Coach Doran's first season. You know, I've said this before on the show that I really categorized the Dan Snyder era in terms of this time of year into two time frames. The time that you were around, you know, 2000 to 2009 was let's see how many big names.

aging free agents we can overpay the market by 25% on. And that strategy obviously didn't work. And then when Bruce got here, with the exception of Deshawn Jackson, Josh Norman, and the McNabb trade, which happened in 2010, right when they got there, it was essentially the opposite. It was like trying to get the best possible negotiated deal to the nickel for players who really weren't very good at all. And then we had the Ron Rivera stretch for a few years where, you know, there were a couple of hits.

I think people don't give Ron Rivera credit that first year, bringing in guys like J.D. McKissick and Curtis Samuel, Logan Thomas. There were actually some decent, you know, signatures in free agency in that first year. But we won't, you know, we won't obsess over the Ron Rivera era. But do you agree with me? Like, you were a part of the Snyder. oh my God, he's frothing at the mouth because it's March period. I mean, you were in that group.

Yeah, no, I think you're spot on and basically categorizing this is pre-bruce and post-bruce in terms of cap and contract management. I remember getting to Washington in 2007, and that's the off-season in which we signed London Fletcher, great signing. But it's also the off-season in which we at least explore. or the idea of like trading two first-round picks for Chad Johnson. Right? Yeah.

So I think, yeah, you're spot on in terms of the shift in terms of cap management really occurred when Bruce came into the building. And it was much needed, and it's one of those things where it has continued on to varying degrees of restraint, right? But that is, that level of restraint is what you need in order to have that flexibility as you try to build a roster. And so as we look at this new regime led by Adam Peters, I'm happy to kind of see a continued methodical, measured, and prudent approach to free agency. All right. But with you on here and you bringing up 2007, London Fletcher in the Snyder era is my number one all-time free agent signature. I think in terms of what they got, five years, $25 million, if my memory serves me correctly, all of the production, all of the Pro Bowl seasons, never missing a snap. Like, he during the Snyder era is the number one free agent signing of that era, don't you agree?

Yeah, off the top of my head, I don't disagree. I think when you think about everything you just mentioned on the field, but also just who the human being is, I mean, London's a good man. Yeah. And he was great in the locker room, particularly for younger players and the fact that he came from John Carroll and really earned his place in the NFL. Well, yeah, I don't disagree off the top of my head with London being one of those kind of, that poster child signing during the Snyder era. Yeah, I talked about this on radio, I think, yesterday, but I didn't do this with Tommy on the podcast yesterday, but you're a good person to do this with. That, to me, is the number one of the Snyder era. Now, there were some good ones.

Let's not act like everyone was bad. Cornelius Griffin, Sean Springs, Pierre Garsohn, D. Hall. But the all-time, and you're too young to remember this, the all-time great free agent signing in franchise history, 1976, there was just this opening because of this case that was going on for limited free agency in the NFL, and George Allen, who was the general manager and head coach, went out and got John Riggins signed. The irony is that Riggins didn't perform at a high level for George Allen. He performed at a high level for the next coach, Jack Pardee, and then obviously for Joe Gibbs, and he became the legend during the Gibbs years.

But that's the best free agent signing in franchise history. But, you know, Casey Robach was a good one during the Snyder era. Oh, absolutely. You know, I actually think Deshaun ultimately wasn't a terrible free agent signing. You know, they were really good offensively. And part of that was with him and Jordan Reed together and Pierre and then Kirk on those teams. I mean, that's the best offensively. They've been since probably 1991.

No, that's not true. Brad Johnson's here. I was watching some Robert Griffin rookie year highlight. And as I was watching those highlights, I was looking at the skill talent around him. I was like, geez, they were loaded on offense. I mean, you know, Alfred Morris was productive at running back. She said Pierre Garcone was tough and productive, and then Aldrich Robinson was a good nine-rout deep threat. Like, there was a lot of skill talent on that team.

But, yeah, you know, building through free agency is tough. You obviously have the hit on it in the draft, but we've had some good signings, and we've had some misses as well in the history of the organization. So what's your – give me – you've shared some stories before, but give me the best you know, free agent story from your being in the organization during that time frame, 2007, 2008? Yeah, I'm trying to think, like, some of the more memorable conversations really weren't about, wasn't about free agents. Obviously, like I mentioned a few minutes ago, there was the thought, like, okay, if we trade for Chad Johnson, we're going to have to get this guy a new contract, how do we make this work under the cap because we're cap-strapped, right?

So there was some of that. But some of the more kind of conversations that stick out were really, when we're going into the 2007 draft, and I literally just got there like in February in the front office, and we're trying to figure out what we're going to do with our first round pick, which would ultimately become Laurent Landry, just talking with Vinny at like Coach Blatch's house over Crawfish. like, what should we do with that first round pick?

And, you know, should we take deep defensive tackle a Moby-A-Coye, or should we take the safety of Ron Landry or should we take someone else? And, you know, none of those guys, Amobia Coyer, Ron Landy really panned out in the long run. But, and then the next year we had, like, the three picks in the second round that ended up being Devin Thomas Fred Davis and Malcolm Kelly. And, like, you know, what do we do with those guys? And none of those guys panned out.

So more of my more memorable conversations are really around, what are we doing the draft? Because we were trying to get better in terms of using the draft to build the roster instead of free agency. And so it really started to pivot there. And then obviously, again, bringing in Bruce George Allen's son to lead the organization really with a big turning point. The Ocho Cinco thing, I mean, what's really amazing about, that is that Mike Brown didn't accept the offer. Like, what was he thinking? Two first round picks.

You know, every team was lining up back in those days to try to make a trade with Snyder because they knew he would overpay and he would not, you know, he didn't understand sort of the value of these trades and how they worked. But it's just amazing that Mike Brown turned that down. The 2008 draft class, I actually think, is among the worst individual team drafts in history. You know, it was the Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Fred Davis in the first three picks. And, you know, I've had people tell me this before, and it's possible that you've been one of those people to mention that to me. but Malcolm Kelly had red flags all over him because of the injury history.

I mean, in short, everyone knew his knee was rotten before he got there and he still got drafted in the second round. Everyone knew it, right? Didn't, as I recall, didn't run well as a pro day at Oklahoma. Yeah, it was bad. You know who the best player in that draft? The draft was Devin. Vinny was so proud of himself trading out of the first round and getting additional picks

and then none of them hit, right? Devin Thomas, Fred Davis, Malcolm Kelly. The guy that I believe, I could be wrong about this, had the longest career was Chad Reinhart who they picked in the third round. But he had... He did a third round pick. Yeah, but he didn't have the long career, the successful career here. He had it in, I think with the Chargers. can't remember specifically.

But he was like... We also drafted Jordan Palmer in that draft. Yeah. You know, you drafted a punter. You drafted a punter from Georgia Tech. Hold on. Let me pull up that draft. That draft class, like, and then I don't know if it was the 07 year, the 08 year,

you know, rest of the soul, Colt Brennan was in the building. Colt Brennan's 2008. Colt Brennan was 2008. Okay. Yeah. Chris, it was Thomas. Davis, Kelly,

Reinhardt, Justin Tryon, Durant Brooks, Kareem Moore, Colt Brennan, Rob Jackson, who had a big interception

in the 2012 season finale of Romo. And then Chris Horton, who actually, I believe, is the special teams coach

right now for the Ravens. Yeah. Rob Jackson actually carved out a solid career for himself. I remember we took him out of K-State.

He carved out a solid career. career. Chris Horton was the safety out of UCLA. Yeah. Yeah, it was solid. Justin Trian was actually pretty solid as well, like a nickel corner. Like, the thing about that class was, is like we had to rely on the day three guys to kind of be, you know, core guys. And we missed on three second round.

I mean, Fred Davis kind of pulled it together to some degree. And it took a while. but when you have that many picks and you miss on so many guys that, you know, in the top 100 there, it's hard to overcome that from a roster building. According to pro football reference, the only player out of that draft that was a primary starter for his team, this team or anybody else's, for more than one year was Fred Davis. Chad Reinhardt was only a primary starter for one year and then everybody else pretty much was

a rotational player at best. No pro bowls, no real stats out of any of these players during the course of their careers. Anyway, let's get to today. So how would you describe what they've done here in the first two days? Measured. You know, I think when you talk about as much cap space as they had going into free agency, they still, you know, with signing 12 players, they still have 68 million in cap space according to over the cap.

None of the players that they've signed has a 2024 cap number greater than $5 million. So, you know, they've been measured in kind of building out the roster in their vision you know, with guys who, in a lot of instances, they have some sort of relationship with from previous talks. So when you think about the Eccular Anthony Lynn relationship, when you think about the Dante Fowler, Dorrance Armstrong, relationship with Quinn and Dallas, you know, I think they've been very measured. They've been, when I say measured, it's really about mitigating risk. and free agency, just as much as the draft, has a lot of risk and is a crapshoot.

The difference being, though, that free agency has more financial risk associated with it. And so, you know, they've done a great job of mitigating that risk by signing guys that they have some sort of relationship with and without breaking the bank. So we really love what they've done in free agency to, kind of build out the roster. 68 million left from, you know, a starting number of somewhere around 90 million, give or take, a couple of million. What do they have to spend this year? Explain the minimum spend rules?

Yeah, that is actually not a year-by-year calculation. It's done in three-year tranches. So the current tranche, if you will, ends actually the. this year. And so in 2025, the next three-year period begins. So the long way or the short way of saying this is they're already compliant with the spending floor just because of what they've done in the first two years of this tranche. So there's no concerns in terms of, oh, they've got to get over a certain amount of spending, otherwise they're going to be in trouble. So that's how that works mechanically. It's an assessment done in three-year increment. And the three-year

increment is ending now. So it's 22, 23, 24, and then the new three years will be 25, 26, 27. And so everything that they've got left over since they've already met the minimum spend over a three-year period, which is, what, 89% have I read before, something like that of the cap? That's right. Yep. That's what your cash spending has to be. That's the cap accounting, but your cash spending. So everything they don't use cap-wise gets pushed into next year? Yeah, and that's a great position to be in. Like, you know, there's no urgency or rush to spend all this cap space unnecessarily.

Like you spend it for, you know, rewarding your homegrown players. You spend it to take prudent shots in pre-agency. and then whatever you don't use, you just roll over to the next year. And as the cap continues to grow and you continue to roll money over, well, what does that equal? It equals flexibility as you build out your roster so that if you do miss on a guy in free agency and you do have to take on some amount of dead money, it's not hamstringing you or you're not going to be hamstrung from, you know,

a cap management standpoint. So they're in a great position from a cap management standpoint. and yeah, you just roll over what you don't use into the next year. Is the second pick in the draft, let's assume they pick a player at number two, with the rookie wage scale, is it possible that that contract, even with a rookie wage scale, will be bigger in terms of more of a commitment, more of a cap hit than any of the deals they've signed so far? So when we look at the number two overall pick and in comparison to what they've done in free agency,

understand that the number two overall pick contract is going to be fully guaranteed. And according to over-thecap.com, the total value of that number two pick deal is going to be $42.9 million. But that's $42.9 million fully guaranteed, of which $28 million is going to be paid in the signing bonus to whoever they take, presumably, at the number two picks. So will be their biggest deal of the offseason? Absolutely will be their biggest deal, their biggest financial commitment. So while we always talk about building through the draft

to get cheap labor in a lot of ways, we're not exactly talking about the number two overall picks. We're more so talking about, you know, picks round two through seven. Because, yes, to make a $43 million guarantee commitment, is substantial relative to what they've done in free agency. Why do you think they've done primarily very short-term deals? Nothing more than three years that we've read so far,

a few two years and a few one-year deals? Yeah, there's a win-win dynamic to doing a two- or three-year deal for both team and player. For the club, when you do a three-year deal, it generally reduces the guaranteed money that you have to give to the player. Because obviously the player is like, well, if you're going to control my rights for five years, you need to give me a substantial amount of guaranteed money. Well, that guaranteed money is reduced when you do a three-year deal.

For the player, the benefit of doing a three-year deal, in lieu of doing, say, a five-year deal, is it allows you to get back to the market that much more sooner and maybe potentially even get a new deal after year two. So there's a win-win in terms of doing the three-year deal in terms of letting the club get out of the deal potentially after the first year or the player potentially getting a new deal after year two or getting back to the market after year three. It also reduces more likely than not the guaranteed money and what you have to come up with up front. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, if I mentioned earlier that Doris Armstrong has a 16.1 million.

million dollar amount that's truly guaranteed at signing. Frankie Louvre has 14.6. Austin Eckler has 4.2 guaranteed signing. Like, you know, not only from a cash flow standpoint in terms of Washington's cash budget, do they have to come up with less

money, but again, it allows Washington's front office to get out of these deals fairly easily after one year. And again, free agency is more of a crap shoot than the draft because you don't get to interview these players, and because the commitments are more financially

outside of the number two pick, as we discussed. But, you know, you do a shorter deal so that, yeah, you're not having to shell out as much cash, but also from a cap management standpoint, it allows you to get out of the deal if the guy was not the right guy. By the way, Washington, and I'm just seeing this for the first time, has signed for the first time here over the first two days of free agency, one of their own. Jeremy Reeves, It's being reported by Jeremy Fowler at ESPN, has signed a two-year deal to return to Washington. So Reeves, who was the special team pro bowler from 2022, is back in the fold. And there were a couple of players, him included.

I thought a guy like Kaleek Hudson would fit, you know, what they were looking for and the kind of guy in terms of their free agents. there may still be a couple more that they end up coming back towards. So of the players they've signed so far, who do you like? Who do you really like? Who do you think has a chance of a lot of these guys who were rotational guys in other places? Who's got a chance to be with this team for several years and potentially be a significant contributor on a team two, three years from now that's actually contending for a playoff spot?

I think the center, and I'm probably going to butcher his last name, so you might have. Tyler Biotish, yeah. Yeah, so Tyler Biotis. I think just because he's 26 years old, he didn't break the bank for him, but he has a somewhat substantial average per year, 9.75 million. We obviously knew going into free agency that they were going to have to rebuild that offensive line across the board. but given his age, given the low average per year, relatively speaking, I think he's a guy who could be here for all three of the years on this contract

and potentially get to another contract here in Washington. Anybody else? So your question was kind of, you know, when they get to being competitive. Who did they sign here in the first two days that, let's just use this as a way to, category of them is not just, you know, a locker room guy and a rotational guy and a placeholder perhaps as a starter for them until they are able to upgrade in the draft or down the road. Like who's legit good of the players they've signed? So, okay, so we're going to take Austin Ackler out of this consideration just because I think

given the position he plays, given that he'll be in a timeshare, presumably, with Robinson, given that he's almost 29 years old, he's not a long-term solution. So he's not in consideration for this question. Again, the center, given the age, given the contract value. But the player in terms of who could be a real playmaker, I think Frankie Lubu from Carolina, I'm not a pro scout, but just haven't watched Carolina play a little bit over the past couple of seasons. I mean, he plays to the edge.

He's a tone setter. he's a playmaker. He's 27 years old. I think he could be, in terms of on-the-field impact and making plays, I think he could be your guy who plays a big role in getting kind of this program turned around. Yeah, I'm in agreement with you on that. All right. Let's look to the end of April. What do you think they should do at number two? I put this out on X yesterday. I have concerns around, actually, all three of these quarterbacks. And obviously, I'm a Gonzaga guy, so I'm rooting for Caleb Williams.

Right. But, you know, I've got my concerns. I've got my concerns around Jaydon Daniels and his brain and the ability to, you know, stand up to the physicality of the NFL game. I have my concerns around Drake May. So that being said, in the spirit of, you know, of trying to build out a robust roster and with, you know, players who regardless of the position

you believe are truly the most talented players in the draft, I don't think it's crazy to say, let's trade a little bit of our draft assets to go get a guy like Justin Field. And as long as we can keep that number two overall pick, we take a guy like Marvin, or we take Marvin Harrison Jr., who a lot of evaluative, would say short of Caleb Williams is probably the most talented player in this draft.

And so now if you've got Justin Field, you've got Ryan Robertson, Austin Echler, Terry McCorn, Marvin Harrison Jr. and Johan Doxon, at the skill positions, I know it's not seven-on-seven football, but at the skill positions, you're pretty dangerous. Obviously, you've got to invest in the offensive line. but again, if you're going to invest, you know, $48 million guaranteed into the number two overall pick, I mean, I think you've got to make sure that you're hitting the home run. And I know people have their reservations about Justin Fields. I just said I've got reservations with the other three quarterbacks that are presumably going in the top three.

So let's maximize it with a guy who we feel more strongly about from an evaluation standpoint. It's interesting because I'm glad you went that direction instead of telling me that you wanted to just trade back, accumulate picks, and then go to the quarterback store in three years and get your quarterback to plug in because as we both know, there's no quarterback store to go to to get them. But this is more interesting to me. First of all, if they don't like any of the quarterbacks, they shouldn't take one. I think everybody can understand that. I hope personally they fall in love with one because this opportunity doesn't strike often, right? Where you have a significant need at the position. You're selecting number two overall, which is unique.

I hope that one of the quarterbacks that's there, too, they are absolutely in love with and they pick, and we've got a chance to hit on the most important position on the field. But if they didn't like any of them, then I think everything's in play. Justin Fields thing, if you had asked me two weeks ago, I would have said, okay, if they don't like any of the other three, you know, or any of the other two. But I'm curious from an agent standpoint, why you think we are here now with Justin Fields, where the Bears clearly, Ryan Poles said, we're going to try to get this thing to a conclusion sooner rather than later. We know that the player himself is so respected, so well-liked. There is no character or anything behind the scenes that may be holding this up. He's been beloved at every turn, so highly respected, first-class, you know, sort of locker-room guy leader, the whole thing.

And yet, here we are. And we've had all of these quarterback moves. And I pointed this out to Tommy yesterday. Luke Getze was his offensive coordinator for two seasons. They had a need in Vegas. They took Gardner Minshu and paid him $25 million for two years when they could have traded for Justin Fields, given up a third rounder maybe,

and paid him maybe $30 million over the next two years, if you include picking up the option. And they didn't do it. So something right here. I think it may be the evaluators think he has some, flaws that are not fixable, you know, processing, accuracy, whatever it might be. I mean, you're an agent. You see a lot of these things happen. A lot of times it's character driven in these cases, but we know it's not with him. So what is it? Yeah, no, I think it's a

function of musical chairs at the quarterback position, right? It's a function of, you know, Russell Wilson, his new team, which ended up being the Pittsburgh Steelers, we're only going to have to pay him $1.2 million. So that takes one chair out of the equation. To me, the more kind of perplexing one is, you know, if you're the Atlanta Falcons, you know, you go with an older, more established quarterback and Kurt Cousins versus trying to acquire a younger Justin Fields

to kind of go with your young core there. But once it was clear, that Kurt was going to Atlanta. Now you've got the Falcons and the Steelers off the board. Well, now where are the other opportunities? Well, yeah, Luke Getty was his offensive coordinator, and I

think that while we think about character and how that plays out in the locker room, you know, I think it speaks volumes. It speaks very loudly that Luke Getzzi, in so many words, probably convinced the organization that, look, it didn't work with the two of us in Chicago. So why would we think it's going to work

here in Vegas any better. So now that takes Vegas out of the equation. Well, Devante Adams and some better weapons. I mean, Chicago had no weapons, right? Sure. But, you know, we don't know what that, again, and we've mentioned this before, the relationship is not sure how that relationship gets into the field played out.

Right. And so now, well, where are some of the other immediate starting opportunity? Minnesota. They chose Donald. They went and got Sam Donald. Right? And that's because you're not going to, if you're the Bears, you're not going to trade Justin Fields, you know, within the division. I mean, you do that for non-quarterback positions, but for a quarterback who has his upside, you got to go see him two times a year.

And if this dude turns into a superstar, oh, the whole staff is getting fired. So in the game of musical chairs, there's just not a chair for Justin Fields. And so now you have to start thinking a little more creatively, whether that's Washington, whether that maybe it's New Orleans because they know they're moving on from Derek, car after this season? Is it Seattle because you can move on from Gino Smith after this season? Is it the Rams because you can move on from Matthew Stafford who's getting long in the tooth?

You've got to start thinking towards these more secondary scenarios. How about Tennessee? I mean, you've got Will Levis going in the year two. It's probably too early to bring a Justin Fields in to

potentially ruin this kid's confidence and have him looking over his shoulder. And I'm not saying that that guy is a long-term solution in Tennessee, but, I mean, you've got to give him a shot. Yeah. Yeah, I, that's part of it, no doubt. I mean, it may be, you know, Denver, maybe Seattle, because Gino Smith, you know, isn't going to. I just think it's one of the more curious developments over the last few weeks, and it's odd. because I think we can point to similar examples in the past in terms of the perception of the player

and the perception of the marketplace around the player. But you can kind of point to some of the intangible stuff that scared teams off. This isn't an intangible scare off. This is something football related. This is something that these top evaluators are saying there's a lot there to like, but he's got the flaw which, you know, the advanced people will say, holding on to the ball too long, not processing quickly enough, having too high of a sack percentage is not a fixable flaw and it's fatal.

You know, it's one of the reasons that, yeah, go ahead. I was going to say, given all those red flags, perhaps what the bears are asking for in return for a player with these red flags. Yeah, no, maybe they want too much. Maybe they want too much. Yep. All right. What else sticks out to you just from the last couple of things?

of days as an agent. You know, you mentioned the Cousins deal. That's, you know, I actually said to somebody today, and I forget who it was who I had on the show, because it was all of like an hour and a half ago. Ben Volan from the Boston Globe. And I said, is it possible that Minnesota did the right thing and Atlanta did the right thing? That it was, you know, win-win for both organizations. What do you say? I think Atlanta, I see why they made the signing, why they made

the financial commitment. Minnesota, I think for me, it's Minnesota kind of, I think they missed here. I think, look, the quarterback position is expensive, no matter how you chop it up. I get Kirk

cousins coming off on Achilles. But, you know, he was pace that's over 5,000 yards last season. They were really, and they were, they made the playoffs two seasons ago with him as their quarterback. So if we just talked about the quarterback position being the most important

position in maybe all of sports, why would you let that guy leave the building and not make the same level of financial commitment that the Atlanta Falcons made to that same guy? So I don't know that it's a win-win. And again, I have

certain reservations about the Falcons signing him at that price point. But to me, it would have made a lot more sense for the Vikings to retain Kirk Cuthers. I'm with you on that. I mean, the reason I suggested win-win is because clearly there was a rift, and it's kind of being reported on now, between the GM and the head coach. You know, Diana Rucini was on with me last week on radio and said, Kevin O'Connell's literally on the floor grabbing at Kirk's ankles to stay.

You know, and you're right. he was playing probably the best football of his career when he tore his Achilles, and that team was on the verge of taking off this year, and he was going to throw for 5,040 plus, and they would have been a playoff team, I think, had he stayed healthy. But, you know, we've seen it. You know, six years of taking up too much cap space for a non-elite, but very good quarterback is a bad mix.

You know, you can't build enough around a quarterback that needs to be built around, when you've got that much invested in them. And I think that's what Minnesota learned. They love them. They are going to be, you know, Washington's 10 quarterbacks in 27 games below 500 since he left in 2017. So, you know, they could be out in the quarterback wilderness for a while. But it is hard, right? You see this as an agent.

If you're not going to have the elite quarterback, that next tier to give them elite money is dangerous. I don't know. I think to say that because we've got an expensive quarterback is a little bit of a cop-out, just because it just becomes more incumbent upon the general manager to go get cheap labor on day two, day three of the draft in college-free agency. Patrick Mahomes doesn't have a cheap contract, and neither does Travis Healthy, and yet they've won back-to-back Super Bowl. But that's elite. But that's the elite answer. I'm talking about the second group of, you know, quarterbacks eight through 12, which is where Kirk's pretty much resided, right? Sure. For many years.

That when you pay the quarterback eight through 12, you know, elite top five money, it just makes it harder when they're taking up that much of the cap. It still doesn't preclude you from going to get talent, whether that's, you know, in the draft or financially efficiently and free agency, around it. You can structure deals to get around the cap and get around an expensive quarterback contract. It's, you know, again, it's the most important position in football, if not all the sports. When you let a guy who, even if he is a second-tier quarterback, walk, and now your answer is quarterback is Sam Darnold, I get Kevin O'Connell's frustration, assuming the

reporting is correct. You know, when you let a quarterback who has been for, you. productive who you've gone to the playoff with walk out of the building and now you're signing Sam Donald to be his backfill. You know, it's just the nature of the beast and what the player economics are.

Yeah. Always great to catch up with you. Really appreciate it. Hope you're well. And maybe we'll talk soon towards the draft or this summer. Sounds good, man. Always appreciate you having me on.

J.I. Hall. sell everybody. Always enjoy having J.I. on the show. Don't forget to rate us and review us if you've got a chance on Apple and Spotify. Follow us if you don't mind as well. Hit that plus button in the upper right hand corner on Apple

and subscribe to the podcast. That's a huge help as well. We'll finish up with more free agency talk. Much of it in the next segment about what's going on around the league. We'll get to that right after these words from a few of our sponsors.

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half price on the windows with no money down no interest and no payments for two full years. 86690 Nation window nation.com. So as has happened the last couple of days, we've got some breaking news as I am recording this podcast. In fact, I just finished the final segment of the podcast when this news just broke moments ago. Ian Rappaport reporting that Bobby Wagner is signing a one-year deal, $6 million guaranteed with Washington. Bobby Wagner, Hall of Fame, first ballot lock. I think most of you understand that, the career he's had.

Reuniting with Dan Quinn. Dan Quinn, of course, coached him as the defensive coordinator during those Seattle Legion of Boom defensive years. You know, going to the Super Bowl and nearly repeating as Super Bowl champs, winning it in 2013, and then nearly repeating it in their loss to the Patriots in 2014. I'm not going to equate this signing to Ron Rivera's, you know, comfort signing of Thomas Davis in 2020. Thomas Davis, nowhere near the player that Bobby Wagner has been.

And I mentioned that because I was comparing in the opening segment the 2020 offseason and free agency with what we have now to kind of just tamper down some of the talk that you've never seen such incredibly brilliant, strategic free agency moves from a franchise. And in fact, you know, the 2020 free agency period almost mirrors exactly what's going on right now. But Bobby Wagner is a great ad. I mean, you know, here's where they have focused. And I think the focus being in terms of the players that they have probably the most hope for contributing beyond this year, maybe not with Wagner, who is what, he's got to be, let me just pull up his pro football reference. Bobby Wagner, he is 33, he will be 34 years old. Remember, there was some talk after he went back to Seattle last year. that that would be it.

You know, he played for the Rams for one season, then went back to Seattle, and there was talk after this year that he was going to hang it up. Well, apparently he is not going to hang it up. He's going to play for Dan Quinn. How about nine pro bowls and six all pro seasons from Bobby Wagner? How about the fact that Washington has really focused a little bit on being strong up the middle, right?

Center, inside linebackers. a safety that can play in multiple spots. But the combination of Louvo with a Bobby Wagner, if he can still do it, look, last year, at 33 years of age, he started 16 of the 17 games for the Seahawks. He ended up with 183 tackles, which, by the way, was a career high last year. 183 tackles last year, career high.

He made another all-pro second team and made the Pro Bowl. What a player he's been. What an absolute stud of a leader he has been, you know, over the years. This is a good ad for Washington. You know, this is part of like the culture thing, the messaging from Quinn to all. all these new players, you know, kind of what Ron did with Thomas Davis, just not the player, right? But yeah, Bobby Wagner to Washington. Just trying to look to see if I'm missing anything on this.

You know, Quinn, who else from that? Ken Norton Jr. was a part of that Seattle staff, right, I think, during those years. linebacker coach here. Yeah, they convinced this dude right to leave Seattle, leave other opportunities where he might be able to contend for a Super Bowl next year where there might have been chances for him, who knows, and come all the way across the country for the first time in his career because he's played all of his years in Seattle.

and then he played that one year with the Rams. By the way, and I knew this, but I'm seeing it in his profile right now. Utah State guy, Bobby Wagner. I think Cooley knows Bobby Wagner. I think they know each other and have been at events together at Utah State. I'm going to reach out to Cooley to get him on to talk about Bobby Wagner because they didn't play together in college. I mean, Bobby Wagner is much younger than Chris, obviously.

but, you know, some real tough, competitive, high-quality guys being signed. I like what they're doing. Again, I like what they're doing. I just didn't want some of you to get carried away as if to say this is the greatest free agency, you know, period in franchise history. All right. I guess that can be it for the day. I had some other things that I had recorded before, and I'm re-recording this final segment to include this news.

You know, there's other news to NFL-wise. By the way, Calvin Ridley, who was thought to be going back to Jacksonville, Jacksonville wanted to wait for the actual beginning of free agency to sign Calvin Ridley, because if they had waited until the beginning of free agency, they only had to send Atlanta a third, round pick as compensation for the trade. If they had signed him before the league calendar extended him, in essence, then they would have owed Atlanta a second round pick the way I understood it. Well, Ridley said, yeah, thanks, but no thanks. And signed a four-year, $92 million deal, $50 million guaranteed with the Tennessee Titans. So the Titans will have Hopkins,

Berks, you know, whatever you think of Berks and his up and down start to his career, with just right now Will Levis, I think they should go trade for Justin Fields, Tennessee. That might be a good spot for him. Ridley was good last year, you know, and look, he's losing his number one wide receiver. They've got some receivers in Jacksonville, but Ridley was outstanding last year. Ridley had to have led the team, right, in overall, no. He led him in yardage. Engram had 114 catches.

I had no idea. Evan Engram had 114 catches for them. But in terms of the wide receivers, Ridley, easily, the number one wide receiver ahead of Christian Kirk, 76 catches, 1,16 yards, eight touchdowns. For a team that has, you know, big time designs on, you know, a playoff run and an eventual big time run, and he's going to a team in the division. All right, we are done for the day, back tomorrow.