The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Soto Trade

Episode Date: August 3, 2022

Kevin with Al Galdi today discussing the aftermath of the Juan Soto trade to San Diego. Some Commanders' talk as well along with Kevin's thoughts on Vin Scully and the legendary call that most don't remember Scully making. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You don't want it. You don't need it. But you're going to get it anyway. The Kevin Cheehan Show. Here's Kevin. The podcast today is presented by MyBooky. Go to MyBooky.com or MyBooky.orgie. I use my promo code, Kevin, D.C.

And they'll double your first deposit all the way up to $1,000. They've got all of the NFL preseason prop bets out there. They've got lines from week one and week two. There. So go to my bookie, my bookie.ag, my bookie.com, use my promo code Kevin D.C. Tommy is not going to be on the show today, but joining me here at the top of the show is my good friend Al Galdi. And there's no better person to have on today than Galdi, who, you know, not only does his own podcast, the Al Galdi podcast, but does a Nats chat podcast with Mark Zuckerman, which I imagine I'm just going to guess that the last few days and probably today are going to be your most downloaded shows of the year, right?

Have to be. There certainly should be up there because it's hard to top what has happened over the last 24 hours with this team, yeah. Yeah, and the fact of the matter is they've sucked all year. So it's not like, you know, people, you know, hey, that was a big win yesterday over the Dodgers. They're 34 and 18 now. Let's see what's going on. But anyway, Galdi is with us to talk Juan Soto trade. maybe we'll get into some Washington commanders talk as well.

Galdi, as you know, forever at the station was the preeminent baseball authority and had his own show on a weekly basis that was a baseball show in addition to his regular everyday show. So it's perfect to have you on today. So I know we probably talked a few weeks ago after this news broke. but I just want to get your thoughts on what you thought before the trade yesterday, and then we'll get into what they got and how Rizzo did. But what did you think made sense before they traded Soto yesterday?

Well, I never felt that they had to trade them. And I felt that this entire kind of rushed and out of nowhere. And I felt and still feel that there's a very good chance that there's a lot more going on here than we know. This is all very strange to me. I mean, Mike Rizzo on June 1st on the sports junkies says the Nats aren't trading WONSoto, and then six weeks later, I think pretty clearly from the Nats, you get a leak of Juan Soto having rejected a 15-year $440 million contract extension offer, and all of a sudden it's on, and the ads are looking to trade Wan Soto, and you're like, well, what changed exactly here from June 1st to mid-July? So it's strange to me, especially also,

when you throw into the mix, this ownership uncertainty. You know, if you're the learners and you're getting out and the sale of the team is expected to be completed this fall slash winter, Barry's Ruluga on July 19th tweeted that the sale of the team is expected to be completed by November, why do you have answer to the pants to trade so now? Like, this isn't going to be your team in a few months. You don't have to worry about paying him. This really isn't even your decision if you think about it. It really should be up to the next owners to make this decision. So why, now, what happened here? That's kind of where I was at. The play to me, assuming that you wanted

to keep Soto, was to complete the sale of the team, get the new owners in, let the new owners take a crack at trying to sign Soto, and then reevaluate because you could have always traded him this coming off season, and I'm not sure that the whole this off season would have been substantially less than the whole that the Natchez got in season. So I was of the mindset of, let's, you know, take a time out here, wait until the team is sold, and then go forward, because the truth is, If you're Soto, why would you sign an extension with a team for which you don't know who the owner is going to be moving forward? Like, that's a really big deal, who the owner is. And until that got resolved, I just didn't feel like you could do anything going forward to say nothing, by the way, of that offer, 15 for 440, having been a below-market value offer.

So, you know, there was that aspect to things as well. Yeah, and so let's talk about what may have happened before we talk about the conclusion and what they got back, because that's what I'm really interested in hearing. is your thoughts on the players they got back and how they did. So Boz came out of retirement, Tom Boswell, to write a column for the post on this. A perfect day for a Boz-like column, which, by the way, this is a day, I would say, and I don't know, Gawley, if you would agree with me, but I thought about this long and hard over the last couple of days. There's never been an outgoing trade, a trade of a player in this city as big or as

memorable is this trade. I mean, there just isn't. I mean, if Art Monk or Daryl Green had been traded in the prime of their careers, if Alex Ovechkin had been traded eight years ago, we might have something to talk about. But I think yesterday will go down as the most memorable trade, outbound trade of a player. In history, Kirchen called it yesterday. Kirchen called it the biggest baseball move of a player since Babe Ruth was sold from the Red Sox to the Yankees. Is that hyperbole, A, and B, do you agree with me on the D.C. front? Yeah, I definitely agree with you on the D.C. front. I mean, the only real big trades I can think of, certainly in my lifetime, are some bullets trades of them trading away some guys, but those

trades weren't as big of the deal is this. I mean, what makes the Soto trade so unique is that he is, So young. He is so good. And he's under team control for multiple seasons to come. And that's just incredibly rare. And then also, you know, Josh Bell has been a good player. So you throw him into the mix, too. And that's a pretty substantial thing, trading away two guys like that, even though Bell is a pending free agent. We have seen a lot of good baseball players be traded over the years. But something like this that meets that criteria of, again, so young, so good, under team control for multiple seasons. It's hard to think of an instance like that. So I was going to read from Boz, but I got sidetracked there for a moment. So Boz wrote in his

column, this year has played out like a script that was already close to written. For appearances sake, and to be decent to a great player, the Nats recently offered Soto a 15-year, $440 million deal, enough to ensure he would not take it unless Juan wanted to climb over age of Scott Boris's dead body. The implication there is they never had any intention of signing him. And that this was part of the plan, part of the plan to, by the way, not only offer it and have him turn it down, but to leak it so that people wouldn't be totally shocked by what happened yesterday and then trade him.

So I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on do you buy this, that this was kind of always the mandate and always the plan. And when do you think it became the plan? Well, first of all, I think that that's very much a possibility. And that's one of the things that I've talked about on my podcast. And that's one of the things that I'm getting at when I say there's more going on here than we know. Because it feels like the learners slash Rizzo slash the Nats.

And, you know, we don't know who's coming from where, right? but it feels like Team Nat wanted to find a reason to trade Soto. And so they made them this offer that, you know, it's like the opposite of a Godfather offer. A Godfather offer is an offer you can't refuse. This was an offer that you knew that he would refuse. This was a below-market value offer. The Nats have done this before. Their famous offer to Bryce Harper was an offer that they knew that he would refuse.

Teams do this. This isn't exclusive to the Nats, but you make an offer. you strategically leak the offer. You have people who don't really follow this stuff that closely who just see the headline of, oh, Wand Soto turned down $440 billion, you know, the NACs tried, right? But if you're really following this stuff, you understand that was a low-market value offer

because the AAB was below $30 million per year. And so then you say, oh, well, we got to trade them. And see, my thing was like, well, why? Why can't you make another offer? Why can't you continue the negotiating process? Again, you have them for two-plus seasons more. So it felt like the Nats were looking for a reason to trade them. And so you have to ask, well, why is that?

And, you know, I think there are a variety of possibilities. You know, there is a theory out there that the learners have checked with prospective buyers and that the prospective buyers have said they want Soto God. And so that maybe the learners are doing this because this is what whoever is going to end up buying the team wanted. Now, that's not very encouraging for who the next owner of the team is going to be, but, you know, you wonder about that. I wonder about where Rizzo stood on all of this. Did he want to do this?

Did he really think that this is the best way to go about rebuilding the team, trading away Juan Soto? Or did he do this because the learners told him to do this? You know, now the way this has been framed by Rizzo is that he did this on his own and that, you know, obviously had the blessing of the learners, but it's not like they made him do this. But, of course, you know, we don't know what to believe from Mike anymore because he, about two months ago said that that wouldn't be trading Soto. So you're not sure what to make of that.

But yeah, this reeks of, they were kind of looking to do this. They didn't want to keep them for whatever reason. Either they don't believe in giving out mega-money contracts, or they just for whatever reason felt like things or better off with the sale of the team if we end up trading the guy. But if you really want to keep them, boy, was this a tap out? I mean, two plus seasons left the team control. You make an offer that's below market value.

Soto predictably says no, and then you trade them and that's it. Like, you just give up. And, you know, this thing that's out there that people keep saying of, well, Scott Boris is never going to allow Soto to sign an extension. Look, there's a good chance Soto won't sign an extension. I hear you on that. But, like, why do people keep letting it be that, like, Scott Boris is an ad's dad, and he gets to dictate everything? Like, you're the team. You know what I mean? You have the player. And you had negotiating exclusivity with him on the team. Like, you dictate what happened. You govern what happens. If Soto says no, make it so that he says, yes, make a better offer.

And ultimately, if he keeps saying no, then trade him. Okay. But like this thing of our hands were tied. There was nothing we could do. Scott Forrest won't let him sign an extension. Like, I don't buy that. And I don't like that as like a frame for all of this. So it does feel to me like the Nats, for some reason, we're looking to not sign them, and we're looking to trade them.

You know, I, you know, in reading Bos this morning, too, he reminded me of the fact that, you know, 13 months ago, they were 42 and 40. they had just beaten Tampa Bay 15 to 6, and they were considered, you know, a contender. And that was just 13 months ago. And, you know, they were still basking in the glow of 2019 in a World Series after, you know, a strange pandemic year. And then all of these injuries started to happen, Strasbourg, Schwerber, et cetera. And they've been horrible since. So, I mean, I kind of think, Al, that, you know, that wasn't the plan or a mandate a year ago. and that even going into this year, because I forget what you thought,

and I forget if we talked about this. I mean, Tommy felt, and I remember I was with Rizzo and Davy Martinez. It Tommy's event. We were talking well into the early hours of the morning drinking, you know, cold beer. And this was, you know, in early late May or early June. And I remember, you know, them still thinking at that time that this was, you know, they knew this was going to be a rough year. But they felt confident that next year would be a year that they would be back in contention maybe for a wild card spot.

And by 2024 for the division. But, you know, things have changed. Strasbourg may be done. They are awful. They're 33 games under 500. Maybe they just came to the conclusion. We are going to suck next year and in 2024 as well. And it doesn't matter if we have them on the team or not.

We're not going to be a contender. And so let's try to get as much as we can now. And by the way, the new owners can come back in two and a half years and join the bidding war if they choose to do that. I'm wondering if it's possible that the mandate wasn't there until they realized we don't really have a chance to contend over his final two and a half years. Yeah, that is possible. I certainly would not dismiss that. But, you know, that kind of brings me to something else with all of this, which I don't think has gotten enough attention, and that is why the NACs are in the predicament that they're in. And, you know, I love Mike Rizzo.

I think overall he's done a great job as NADS GM. I think you could argue he's the second best executive in D.C. sports history. Bobby Bether has to be number one. I think you can make the case that Rizzo is number two. But what has become undeniable is that the Nats have done a woe. job of drafting and player development for close to a decade now. And their farm system prior to that initial fire sale of last year was in Shambles. And even after the fire sale of last year, the farm system still was a bottom third farm system in baseball. And only now you can start to look at it as an

upper half of MLB farm system because of this sell-off of Juan Soto and Josh Bell. But if you go through the Nats draft over the last like eight to 10 years. It's one whiff after another. There are like no diamonds in the rough. When you look at players who have been on the Nats, you see guys getting worse, not better. You know, you think about Victor Robles. You think about Carter Keebom. You think about Patrick Corbyn. You think about Joe Ross. And you also now are starting to have an increasingly long list of guys who are with the NAD weren't very good with the NAD. Austin votes. Then go elsewhere and do better. And Austin votes is a prime example. The NACs had Austin votes at the major league level for four plus seasons, and he was really bad.

He gets claimed off waivers by the Orioles in June. And Austin votes, as we speak here, has an ERA under three for the O's. Now, small sample size, yes, maybe votes completely falls off the cliff over the next few weeks. Who knows? But what does it say that the O's in five minutes get more production out of Austin Votes than you got in four plus years? And what does it say that Austin votes in a piece on ESPN.com is talking about how the Orioles use all of this data, and that's new to him, and that's good for him? That's impressive to him. How come you're not using that stuff? How come you're not at the forefront of that stuff? So, you know, one of the things that I really have come to believe is that there's something systemically wrong here with the net, that they keep whiffing on draft picks, and they keep not properly developing players, and you see guys doing better elsewhere.

And so that's why the Nats are in this predicament. There's kind of a false narrative out there that people put out there of, well, the Nats, their farm system got bad because they made trades while they were a contending team. That's not true. You go back through it. That really did not happen. There's a narrative, too, of, well, they've been picking lower in first round, so that's why their draft picks haven't worked out.

That's a false narrative. Plenty of teams pick lower in draft and do well. The Dodgers have a loaded farm system. When's the last time they had a bad season? So that doesn't explain it. plus in baseball, you have all kinds of guys who were not first round picks who end up being hit. So, like, you're in this predicament, and you have felt this extreme need here to replenish the farm system. If you had done a better job of drafting and developing in recent years, I wonder

if the Nats would have traded Soto. You know, it feels like, too, the trading away of Soto was to make up for these failures in drafting and player development. And, you know, that doesn't speak well for things. Well, yeah, because their farm system ranked so low, and they were, were having a horrific season. If they had been what you described, the Dodgers or the Braves who were able to do both simultaneously, which is win and also keep, you know, keep restocking from a favorable feeder system, then they wouldn't have been in this position. So what's your conclusion? You know, you say on one hand, Mike Rizzo is the second greatest team executive general manager in D.C. sports history behind Bobby Betherd, I would throw Bob Ferry in there into the conversation.

but, you know, this has to fall at his feet, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, I think two things can be true. Mike Rizzo did a really good job from 2009 through, you know, pick a date, 2017, 2018, 2019, whatever. But Mike Rizzo's last five to eight years have not been so good. And, you know, in the industry of Major League Baseball, which is an evolving industry, which is an arms race in terms of data,

and information and sports science. What worked in 2009 and 2010 doesn't necessarily work in 2020. And so Mike Rizzo, obviously, was the right guy for the job in 2009. I think there are real questions about whether he's the right guy for the job in 2022. And that doesn't mean that, like, he's a dummy or anything like that. I don't think that. But, you know, if you're being honest about things,

Mike Rizzo has become like Ernie Grunfield, where he makes really good trade, but he's not very good at draft. And that's the way that you have to look at things now. I don't know how you put it any other way. I mean, go through the Natch draft. Find me the hits. You're not going to find many hits. And the biggest hits were obvious picks like Steven Strasberg and Bryce Harper,

which, you know, anyone could have made. Now, you know, Anthony Rendon was a hit, so I give Rizzo credit for that. There are a few others, okay? But there are a lot of whips and a lot of guys who have not worked out. And that's a real problem. It's very hard to be a good team for a sustained period of time. when you don't draft and develop players well.

It's actually a credit to Rizzo that the Nats had their eight consecutive winning seasons as the team did, despite having these struggles in drafting and player development. It shows you how good of a job Rizzo did in terms of trading and also free agent signings. But eventually that well is going to dry up. You can't keep leaning on free agency and traits to be good. You have to develop players and have young star or at least young good players under team control for years to come. and the Nats have not had that, and it really has come back to bite them here over these last few years. You brought something else up as you've been talking.

And, you know, so I think it's clear to certainly consider. It's obvious to consider that they were in this position because they haven't done a good job with the draft. They haven't done a good job of keeping their feeder farm system strong so that they could continue to be a contender with Juan Soto, which would have meant that they wouldn't have considered more likely than not trading. Juan Soto, but you said something else, and you said they also haven't done a good job of developing some of their young players. And so they just acquired a bunch of young players. Before we get to what you think of these young players, because it was one of the prime reasons I called you, because you know who these players are, and this is an area that you really

follow closely, but should Nat's fans have concern that, they might be bringing in talented players that won't get developed the right way. Yeah, absolutely sure. Now, that doesn't mean that the players won't pan out, but I don't know how you look at the last five, five, eight years, and not have concerns about this. I don't know how you don't look at some of these guys who the Nats have had who previously were highly touted and who have stagnated or who have fallen off

and save yourself what's going to happen with these guys who the Natch just got. I mean, why has Victor Robles decline so much? What has gone on with that? What's the deal with that? Why has Carter Keyboom gone from a pretty well-regarded prospect as someone who feels like is done at this point? You know, even like Kate Cavali, their number one prospect prior to the sell-off of Juan Soto and Josh Bell.

Kate Cavali this season is not doing great at AAA. He's doing okay, but the expectation was that he's going to be called up by like April or May. He has not been called up. The Nats have had ample opportunity this season to call him up, haven't done that. And, you know, look, he's developing, and I'm not trying to say that he's a lost cause, right? Like, you've got to be patient with these guys. But there aren't a lot of good stories in recent years of Nats players in the farm system who did well,

were brought up and looked good, and you felt like, well, that's a drafting slash player development success. I mean, you could argue once sort of was kind of a last real hit in terms of drafting and player development. And he wasn't even drafted. That was an international free agent signing. You know, they signed them out of the Dominican Republic. So, yeah, you know, this past offseason made a lot of changes in their player development and did some shuffling in terms of who's in charge of what. And, you know, let's give it some time, right?

But there was more so, like, reassignment as opposed to firing people and bringing in new people. And you do wonder if, like, some wholesale changes are needed because, again, the result, have not been good. I mean, at this point, I don't know if people realize this, the last pitcher who the Nats drafted and developed and then had pitch for them and pitch well for them at the major league level with Steven Strasbourg, okay? He was the number one pick in the 2009 draft, and he was an obvious pick. It's 2002. How is it that over the last 13 years, there is another pitcher who you have drafted and successfully developed, and then he has pitched well for you. So, like, you can't use Lucas Diolito, who is pitched well for someone else, and who was

bad for you and who you gave up on, and then you traded away. You know, like, how is that possible? Every other good pitcher they've had is someone who they've traded for or signed as a free agent. That's a problem. That's a real problem for this team. I know that Bryce Harper, this could have never happened with Bryce Harper because he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated when he was 16, and he was a superstar from the time, you know, people heard about him at a young age. But Is there, I'm not comparing the players, Kirk Cousins, and Juan Soto. But was there ever an opportunity that Rizzo and the learners had to lock up Soto to a much longer-term deal before everybody really understood that he was going to be a 500 million plus player? So I've asked about this.

I've Jesse Doherty on my podcast, and I asked him about that. And he says, as far as he knows, there wasn't a real attempt to do that. Now, I don't know how likely doing that would have been because, like you said, Scott Borch is the Asian, and Boris usually doesn't allow for things like that to happen. But Watt Soto doesn't work for Scott Boris. So I think if you make them a strong enough offer, you probably get a yes sometime, you know, years ago now. It's one of the things, though, that you look at and you say, are the Nats slash learners just not aggressive enough in trying to lock up players very early in their careers?

This is a strategy that has gone on in baseball for a long time. John Hart pioneered this strategy with Cleveland in the 90s, and the strategy is you overpay in the short term to get a discount in the long term. So you have a player under team control for six years before he can become a pre-agent. You buy out the arbitration years, and you overpay them in the arbitration years. But the exchange for that is that you get to buy out some of the free agency years. And John Hart did this years ago with a bunch of guys for the Cleveland Indians. We see this strategy continue to be employed today.

The Braves have done this with Ronald Ocunia Jr. and Ozzy Albies and just did this with Austin Riley. You know, one of the things that drove me nuts was just a few days ago as all this soda stuff is swirling. The Braves locked up their stuff third basement, Austin Riley, to a 10-year, $212 million contract. Now, Austin Riley's agent is Scott Boris, so, hey, maybe doing something like that with Soto was never a possibility, but did you try? You know, did you after the 2018 or 2019 season go to Soto, go to Boris and say, hey, let's try to work something out that makes sense for both sides? The Nax didn't do that with one. You know, never did that with Trey Turner or Anthony Rendon or Bryce Harper or Stevens Trotsberg. And again, maybe doing such a deal wasn't doable with those guys.

but you have to wonder, how come these other teams can do this with other players, and yet the Nats haven't done that with a single good player that they've had over the last decade or so. All right. So we've talked about, you know, a lot of what led up to this, but it's done now. So how did Rizzo do yesterday? Well, I think he did well. I mean, I don't think you can look at this hall and say, well, they didn't get anything back or they didn't get multiple really encouraging and enticing players.

back. I thought a lot about this, though. I guess maybe my expectations were too high. I think about Soto and the unique nature of all this, right? Again, really young, really good, under team control for multiple seasons to come. And then you throw Josh Bell into the mix. And I guess I was expecting, like, the greatest hall of all time, you know, a hall that, like, flaps you across the face in terms of the run, like, one great promising prospect after another. I don't know if they got bad, but they certainly got multiple guys who were really in. and multiple guys who could end up becoming really good players. So from that standpoint, I think it is exciting.

And, you know, one of the guys, the shortstop, C.J. Abrams, is probably going to be called up sooner rather than later. The bulk of these guys, or especially young guys who probably won't be playing at the major league level for at least a few years, that's going to be one of the tough things about this is that you're not going to be able to really judge this for a few years. But in the case of this guy, C.J. Abrams, who Mike Rizzo was raving about during the press conference on Tuesday. I think there's reason to be excited here. DJ Abrams came into the season as the number nine prospect in all of baseball for

the top two prospect rankings in the sport, MLB Pipeline and Baseball America. This is just his age 21 season. He was the number six pick in the 2019 draft. Rizzo continually referred to Abrams as being twitchy, you know, like fast twitch guy, five-tool player, and he plays a premium defensive position in shortstop. You know, you think about the NADs. If you're trying to find a silver lining here, you always want to be strong up the middle. The Nats right now in Catcher, K. Verruiz, Luis Garcia, who will be moved to his more natural position, second base and a DJ Abrams, are going to be in a pretty nice spot here, in theory anyway, potentially anyway, with those three guys as the middle of the infield, potentially for years to come. So something like that, I think is good.

And I think the other guys all have real upside. You know, this starting pitcher McKenzie Gore, the outfielder Robert Hassel III, the doubtfielder James Wood, who went to St. John's in D.C. is 6'7. That's also got the guy who was the consensus number one ranked pitcher in the 22 international signing class, this guy Harleen Susana. So all these guys have real promise. You know, the Nats got themselves, what is it, five guys who you could argue are all kind of like top 10 worthy ticks, you know. So that's huge. That really is big. The problem, of course, is, and we've seen this historically,

it never works out that all these guys work out. You know, inevitably, one or two or three or more will not work out. And so what you're really hoping for here is that two or three do work out. And if that happens, then I think you feel at least reasonably good about what you got back. Yeah, which is why, really, the chances that five years from now, anybody looks back and evaluates the trade and says the Nats won the trade, that's slim and none, right? I mean, it's hard to win a trade like this. The issue is, you know, two and a half years from now, you didn't want him to walk for nothing after, you know, two more seasons of sub 500 teams and no contending status. Real quickly, though, because I asked a couple of people that I had on the show this morning, the radio show this morning, and it seems like the consensus was Susana.

But, you know, what wasn't really discussed was this was all kind of the package for Juan Soto, but Josh Bell was involved in this deal. And he was a sought-after, you know, player before the deadline yesterday as well. But it sounds like, and I'm wondering if you agree, that this pitcher Susana was essentially the player that they got back for Bell. Yes, that's what I've heard, and that would make some sense because, you know, Susanna is the guy, again, real upside and pretty coveted player in that he's, like I said, number one guy in the international signing class for this year. He's huge. He's 6-6-235, and he's really young. So, you know, you get him, and if he develops properly, this is someone who could make his major league debut at like 21, 22. This is only a lot of. his age 18 season, and so you could have him for years as a really good pitcher for you. So, yeah, I mean, it's funny. It gets totally lost in the shuffle, and rightfully so.

But Josh Bell ended up being a really good player for the Nats. And, you know, I talked about Mike Rizzo and trade. The trade that he made for Bell, Christmas Eve 2020, ended up being another one of these really good Mike Rizzo trade. It doesn't really feel that way because the team has been so bad. But Bell was a good player and that the Nats ended up parlaying him. And so I guess, you know, we can say this. guy Harleen Susana is something that could end up paying off for.

All right. I think what everybody kind of wants to know after this is all done is when will the Nats be good again? We will get to that with Galdi right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right. What everybody wants to know is whether or not or when this will pay off. You know, so simply put, when will they be good again? I think barring the unforeseen, you're looking at least 20, 25.

Now, and by good, I mean like playoff contending good. I think it's possible like in 2024, you start to see things get better. Now, the caveat is the ownership. If you get new ownership in November and you get a new owner, a la the next new owner, Steve Cohen, and it's someone with, you know, glee few money who does not care and start spending like crazy and making big moves and all that they're off. You know, it might be on sooner rather than later, but if you're just going by what the team has right now,

the ages of the various prospects, realistically, I think you're looking at 20-25 in terms of when the team might be playoff caliber good again. You know, the other thing, too, with all of this, is, and this is one of the real difficulties of this year, you had a lot of, like, 50-50 situations for this season that if they broke well would have expedited the rebuild. You know, you think about Stephen Strasbourg staying healthy, Patrick Corbyn being better,

Victor Robles finally getting his act together, Carter Peeble, finally getting his act together, all of these things. And all of them not only haven't happened, but they've been total spectacular flameouts for the most part. I mean, Strasbourg cannot stay healthy, and you really have to wonder if his career is over. Corbyn is worse this season than he was the last two seasons, which is really saying something. You know, Robles has been better lately, but still, he has declined precipitously as an offensive player over the last. three years. Carter Keyboom has been out the entirety of the year with an elbow injury. Like all of these things that had they broke right for the net could have sped things up for

the net have not broken right. And so it really has felt like this probably is going to take a while. This probably isn't going to be one of these quicker rebuilds that we have seen around baseball in recent years. Well, and if it's 2025, the chances were if they'd kept Soto through the last two and a half years and didn't deal him and then we're, you know, trying to convince him to stay when he became a free agent at the end of 2024. They probably weren't going to win the next two years anyways. So they could be in a position in 2025 or after the 2024 season where they could be a bidder for Juan Soto.

I mean, do you think the chances are any better that he signs a long-term deal between now and the end of his contract in San Diego than they were here? I think it's hard to say. I think they are better because the Padres are positioned to be better. and the Padres are a team with a lot of really good things happening right now. I mean, that trifecta of Soto, Fernando Tati, Jr. and Manny Machado, I mean, that's pretty special. And then you combine that with the team having been very good at drafting and developing. And, you know, I do wonder if Soto might want to be a part of that moving forward,

especially if the Padres make them a true market value offer. So I don't know. I mean, it's hard to say. I don't think, though, like, I don't know how anyone can. be so certain that he'll never say yes to a contract extension when you have two plus years until his free agency. Like a lot of things can change between now and that. Well, San Diego is a lovely place to live. That will be, not that we don't love our hometown, but there is a difference weather-wise in San Diego. But yeah, no, I, you know, I heard your

passion at the beginning of this, and I'm kind of with you. It's like, well, don't allow him to say know over and over again. But that's not who the learners are, you know, and we don't know whether or not that is what the new ownership will be. Hopefully it will be Cohen-like. Hopefully they'll turn into a more significant, you know, spending franchise, which leads me to this final question. What does it say? Is it fair to say? And I watched a lot of MLB network yesterday. I watched a lot of ESPN as the trade deadline was counting down over the final two hours and everybody was talking about the Soto trade to San Diego. And I'm wondering if you think it's fair when people say Harper, Soto, to a lesser extent, obviously Rendon, Turner, Scherzer, et cetera, and they got

traded. Washington's just a second rate market in terms of baseball. And they're just, you know, they're never going to be L.A., Boston, Chicago, you know, New York, et cetera. It's like they should borderline be relegated if this were soccer. What do you say to that? I don't agree with that. I think it's tricky with the learners because they certainly can be peculiar with their spending. We know that they don't really love to spend on non-players,

but the truth is the learners have spent a lot on players, and the NADS three years were top 10 in M-O-B and payroll year in and year out, and you have to give the learners credit for that. You know, it's not fair to just say, well, the learners are cheap. They're not cheap, not when it comes to paying players. Now, when it comes to paying a manager, you know, at Bud Black, different story perhaps. But paying players, no, I mean, the Nats have had very competitive payroll for years.

And when it comes to these guys who have left, look, to me, you can justify every one of those other guys having been allowed to leave or having been traded. It's different, though, with Soto. But the truth in baseball is that most of these mega-money contracts not only don't work out, they are flopped. And one of the reasons is that baseball isn't the NBA. One guy can only do so much.

I mean, it is true. It's great as Soto is that has been terrible these last few years. I mean, look at the Angels. The Angels have two superstars in Mike Trout and Joey O'Honnie and still can't have a winning season. But, you know, you look at like someone like, Like, okay, does that go through the list of the guys who the Nats did not keep? Jordan Zimmerman allowed to leave via free agency.

Right, didn't work out. Total failure with Detroit, okay? You look at someone like even, okay, Bryce Harper. At the time, people weren't screaming for the Nats to keep Harper. He had dealt with a lot in the way of injury here, and he had not had a number of elite seasons. He had the one great season, 2015. He had other seasons that really weren't that great,

and he had missed a good amount of time. But he's one an MVP, and he was starting to have an MVP-like season before he got hurt a month and a half ago. Right, but that's now. At the time of his free agency, people weren't saying that. And it's very telling that his free agency ended up being very underwhelming. It did. You teams were in on him. Teams didn't want to pay him what he was looking for.

Anthony Rendon, look at what's happened with Rendon. But you don't know that that would have happened. You don't know that that would have happened here, right? Well, I think you do because when you pay guys going into their 30s, you're taking a real risk. This is why I was not against trading Trey Turner last year. Trey Turner is about to get a big money contract going into his 30s. Let's see how that works out. So the history of these contracts isn't good.

So I don't blame the that for not having signed every one of these guys to $200-plus million-dollar deals. But I think with Soto, it's different. Again, so young, so good, durable, good teammate. like he checks every box there is. And I think that's what really sticks with you. It's like, this guy was different. Harper, Turner, Rendon, you know, obviously Strasbourg, that contract's been a debacle. Those situations are all different.

Soto was kind of in a different class. And if you were going to do a mega money deal, this was the guy for whom to do one. And the team, I think, pretty clearly decided it wasn't going to do one. And you have to wonder why. I want to read this tweet with you because I'm sure you've gotten stuff like this in the last few weeks as well. It was from Mark. He said, why don't you vilify the learners half as much as you do, Dan Snyder? They get a pass from criticism for some reason.

The answer is, you know, there is certainly, and there has been criticism of the learners in the past. I mean, there have been times where, you know, people have had the thought that they're running the Nats like they would run a refurb of White Flint Mall. And there's been that criticism, you know, over the years. But the truth is, you know, there's no world in which Snyder and the learners are comparable. They won a World Series 33 months ago. They had the second best record in baseball over an eight-year period. Snyder ruined an NFL franchise, one of the marquee NFL franchises.

So these are not comparable situations. And by the way, and I think you would agree with this, I think the learners and Ted have really benefited from being in this city as owners where Dan Snyder has existed and resided with the team that, you know, is the most cared about team or at least was. Because anybody put side by side with Snyder is going to look like one of the all-time great owners in sports. So anyway. Yeah, for sure.

For sure. Yeah. All right, ma'am. What else? I mean, we'll talk football next time. and I don't know. It's early in camp. I mean, Curtis Samuel, I mean, here we go again. Chase Young is going to miss some games. That, to me, wasn't really shocking with the way it was kind of developing. Do you have one or two quick thoughts on the first seven days of camp? Yeah, I mean, I think with the Curtis Samuel thing, I'm rooting for the guy, but it doesn't feel well off last year, and then you hear about him having. conditioning and football-shaped issues just a few days into this camp.

I mean, it's hard to give him in his situation the benefit of the doubt. So you hope for the best, but it's tough to be bullish, given what we went through with him last year. So we'll see. Al Galdi, everybody, listened to his podcast, the Al-Galdi podcast. He also does a really good Nats chat podcast with Mark Zuckerman. I imagine the conversation there. The last few days has been great at Al-Galdi on Twitter. Thank you, and we will talk soon.

Appreciate it, as always. Thank you for having me. An update on the commanders, training camp practice today, and a legend passed away last night. More on him right after these words from a few of our sponsors. All right, just a few things

to finish up the show with today. Number one, not much action out in Ashburn, really. No major news from their second consecutive padded practice. There was a linebacker Drew White who tore his ACL yesterday, and they do have depth issues currently at linebacker. We know that, but that was a deeper down the depth chart issue. It was reported that Curtis Samuel today was participating in team drills. That's good news. James Smith Williams has a hip injury, but that's not apparently serious. Hopefully not. They're going to need him

with Chase Young out at the beginning of the season. And Diami Brown was wearing a sleeve over his right leg, and he wasn't participating today. They brought in some players for workouts, including a corner, according to Nikki Javala. But no real major news, which is, you know, good news for the most part. I also just wanted to mention one or two additional things about the story of Stephen Ross and the dolphins being punished over this tampering thing.

We touched on it briefly as the news was breaking yesterday. But, you know, after the show yesterday, I read a little bit more about what the league was doing with Miami and what Miami was accused of doing and found guilty of doing, including, by the way, the Roger Goodell statement, which called this an unprecedented scope in severity when it comes to a tampering violation. I mean, his words were really harsh as it relates to what Miami did. What Miami did is Miami tampered with Tom Brady when he was in New England and in Tampa Bay trying to get him to come to Miami not only as a player, but as a part owner. They were going to give him equity in the franchise. I don't even know if that's allowed to give

players actual stock or equity in a franchise. And then they also went after Sean Peyton when he was still the coach of New Orleans when the season ended last year and before he had officially announced his retirement. So for those tampering charges, Stephen Ross and the Dolphins got punished. They lose their first round pick next year, third round pick next year. And then Ross got fined a million and a half bucks and got suspended through mid-October. I think that what they did, and by the way, the other part of this was, remember the Brian Flores allegations that Ross had offered him $100,000 to lose games on purpose,

to tank games. And the league found, as far as that is concerned, they found basically that there were differing recollections about the wording and the timing and the context of that conversation, so they were not punished for tanking games. They didn't say clearly that there wasn't a conversation about this. In fact, they said there was a conversation, but that the context and the wording and the timing and the intent

were different than what Brian Flores thought they were. Now, what Stephen Ross did is the Dolphins owner, is he kind of got chesty yesterday and saying, see, I was exonerated from this tanking thing. The tampering thing, whatever. We'll pay the fine there. I'll take the suspension. We'll give up the draft choices.

But, you know, the tanking thing, I'm glad, you know, I was exonerated from that. Well, he wasn't necessarily exonerated, you know, from offering up financial incentive to lose games. They were just essentially saying there wasn't enough there and there were differing recollections to think that it was at least a, at least a possibility that Flores misunderstood Ross and that Ross was joking around. That's essentially what it is. So they couldn't do anything about that. The tampering charges are serious, though. And Goodell said they were serious.

This is kind of like the day before, where Sue L. Robinson calls Deshaun Watson's behavior egregious and predatory and that they had proved sexual assault by NFL standards. But then he only got six games. And they referred to it as a nonviolent act. You know, with this dolphin situation, Stephen Ross is like, you know, hey, the big deal tanking, I didn't do that. I knew I didn't do that. This tampering thing, yeah, we'll pay it, not a big deal.

Well, it is a big deal tampering with a player over, you know, a guy like Brady who's two different times they did this. Twice. I think that the punishment is light with respect to the draft choices. the million and a half is chump change for an owner worth billions. The suspension means nothing. And then, you know, when you're going to punish an organization for organizational behavior, owner behavior, or whatever, you really do have to punish their ability to compete at the same level. There has to be something that really hits home in their ability to compete. When Washington got hit with the $36 million salary cap penalty back before 20,000,

2013, before the 2012, before 2012 free agency started, that was, that was devastating. Devastating. Losing a first round pick and a third round pick, it hurts a little bit, but it's not devastating. And, you know, I just, I thought it could have been more for this. I thought they got off a little bit light. I think the timing of the announcement of the Ross stuff coming the day after the Sue L. Robinson stuff was interesting. And of course, tomorrow morning is the deadline for the NFL to appeal the Deshawn Watson, a suspension of six games. But netting it out on the dolphin stuff, I just thought that they got off a little bit easy.

I think it should have been more than a first and a third round pick. You know, it's Snyder in the organization last year, per the Beth Wilkinson report, which we've never seen. They got fined the organization did $10 million. That's a lot of money. But as we know, that wasn't a 10. $10 million cut a check to the league. That was a charitable donation, tax deductible by the team. And they just shifted around their charity donations for 2021 to handle the $10 million

charity donation that the NFL required is punishment. That's bullshit. They didn't get punished. Snyder didn't get punished. The team for its behavior and the toxic workplace didn't get punished. Now, you can certainly create a, um, difference, which is what Snyder and the organization were doing in running a toxic organization for women in particular over a period of time, that was not impactful to the product on the field.

Well, it was, but it didn't, you know, it wasn't trying to cheat to gain an advantage on the field, whereas tampering to try to get Tom Brady to come to your team is different. Anyway, that's enough on that. I wanted to end the show with this. The greatest play-by-play voice, I think, really, of all time. Vince Scully passed away yesterday at the age of 94 years old. 67 of his 94 years lived were with the Brooklyn and Los Angeles Dodgers as the voice of the Dodgers. On radio TV, he also did a lot of work for a major league baseball network, Major League Baseball, NBC, etc.

He's got some of the great calls. in the history of the game, which I will play for you here shortly. But for me, Vince Scully, even though I didn't grow up in Los Angeles, I certainly knew as a sports fan who Vin Scully was. And I had the opportunity during the 90s to spend a lot of time in California. And I can remember being in the car when I was in the car for long periods of time and the Dodgers were playing. Even if somebody else was in the car, I'm like, I want to listen to the Dodgers game.

I want to listen to Vin Scully call a game. He's one of the greatest and smoothest storytellers. And it's a sport in which there's a lot of downtime. You know, calling baseball games is much different than calling hockey or basketball or even football. And the best of the best are great storytellers, and they're able to tell stories in between pitches. And Scully not only did that better than anybody in the history of doing that, he had such a great voice, great. great tempo, a great cadence. Everything about what he did was better than almost anybody else that's ever done it. So everybody is familiar with Vin Scully as a baseball guy. But what I wanted to

share with you is one of my first memories of Vin Scully. It was not as the voice of the Dodgers. It was as a voice of the NFL. Vin Scully called NFL games for CBS in the 70s and in the 80s. He was at times the lead CBS voice, and I'll explain that in a moment. Now, Pat Summerall from the mid-70s on with Tom Brookshire first and then John Madden, they were always the number one team at CBS. But Vince Scully called a couple of big games, and there were reasons for it. But the biggest game he called is one of the most memorable NFL playoff games of all time.

The January 81 NFC championship game played, the 1981 NFC championship game played in January of 82 at Candlestick Park between Joe Montana and the 49ers and the Cowboys. The catch, Montana to Clark. Vin Scully called that game with Hank Stram. Here is how it sounded. 59 seconds left in the game. The Cowboys have two timeouts. The 49ers have won, and you know what, for one of the rare times, what they thought was going to be a barn burner, is exactly that. And, of course, for the upstart 49ers, they're six yards away from Pontiac, third and three.

We'll see a pick-up sometime on the right side, possibly. Montana, looking, throwing in the end zone. It's a madhouse at Candlestick, with 51 seconds. left. Dwight Clark is 6'4. He stands about 10 feet tall in this crowd's estimation. Vin Scully calling football, that was where I first was introduced to Vince Scully. But he called that game because John Madden was in his first year with Pat Somerall at CBS. Madden hated to fly. They didn't send him to San Francisco. They sent him to Detroit with Summerall to get ready for the Super Bowl and they sent Vin Scully and Hank Stram. They were the number two team to call that

NFC championship game. Scully, and I looked this up, I didn't know this, Scully called the 1975 NFC championship game in the LA Coliseum between the Cowboys and the Rams with Sonny Jurgensen and Sam Huff was the sideline reporter. I did not remember that. He also called an NFC championship game with Alex Hawkins in 1977. That game was played between the Rams and, I'm sorry, the Cowboys and the Vikings. So Scully, I remember him certainly calling NFL games. I remember him calling games actually some games with Sonny Jurgensen in the late 70s, maybe even the early 80s.

Certainly the late 70s before Sunny became part of the radio team, so it would have been the mid to late 70s. But anyway, that was my first experience with him. And again, he called one of the all-time great NFC championship games, Montana to Clark. And of course, the 49ers went on to beat the Cincinnati Bengals in Super Bowl 16 in the Pontiac Silver Dome in Detroit. That must have been a lovely Super Bowl to attend

because I think it was frigid that week in Detroit. The Bengals, if you recall, that year had beaten. the Chargers in the AFC Championship game in Cincinnati, the freezer bowl game, where it was 59 below zero with the wind chill. And that one came a week after the Chargers had beaten the Dolphins in one of the greatest, I think, the greatest playoff game of all time, the 4138 overtime game in Miami's Orange Bowl over the Dolphins in ridiculous humidity and heat. And the Bengals, the Chargers went from that humidity and heat one week to the freezer bowl the following week, lost that game. Cincinnati went on to the Super Bowl,

faced San Francisco, and that was the first of the San Francisco 80s Super Bowls. They won that game 2621, and yes, Madden and Summerall were on that call, but that was after Vince Scully and Hank Stram called the NFC Championship game. All right, that's it for the day. Vince Scully, rest in peace, one of the greatest of all time. That's it for today. I am off for a few days, but I have recorded some interviews that I'm going to run the next few days. And tomorrow's you are going to enjoy, I promise you. It's with Jason Reed. Jason's written a book about the history of black quarterbacks in the NFL. And there are some incredible stories that he has about Joe Gibbs and Doug Williams that he will tell us.

you'll hear that tomorrow. All right. Have a great day. Thanks for listening. So the winning run is at second base with two out, three and two to Lukey Wilson. Little roller up along first. Behind the bag. It gets through Buckner.

Here comes night.