The Kevin Sheehan Show - The Story of Bryce & The Gangster Lerners

Episode Date: April 2, 2019

Kevin and Thom open the show talking about Bryce Harper's return to DC and Barry Svurluga's lengthy story about the negotiation between Harper and the Lerners. They talked Zion Williamson for a bit and finished up with the Redskins' updated over-under win total for 2019. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. All right, Tommy is here today on a Sports Fix Tuesday. I almost forgot what day it was. Aaron's here too. This show's presented by Window Nation. If you're in the market for Windows, call 86690 Nation or go to Windonation.com and tell them we told you to call. The Caps lost. But so did the Islanders. It looks like the caps are going to win. this division, the Metropolitan. They've got two games left. I wanted to, before we get to Bryce Harper in his statement, which he has now put out, thanking everybody in Washington before he plays his first game back in Washington tonight as a Philadelphia Philly. I wanted to just real quickly read this tweet from Kenny. Kenny said, got my, had my deadline to renew Redskins season tickets and didn't do it because you've talked to me out of it.

Oh, my gosh. I'm like, oh, no, no, no. Don't do that. Don't do that, okay? Actually, Kevin, that's good advice. Well, of course it's good advice. I mean, I haven't had season tickets in a long time. I gave him up a while back, in part because I was already at the game working.

Yes. You know, in most cases, doing the pregame show. But it is funny, and I know you've gotten this much, much more than I have over the years. just the dying few that still are super positive about the organization saying, we're zero and zero. Can't you have it? Don't you have anything good to say about them? Yeah, what about the draft?

They've got a chance at this guy and that guy. I will probably have some things. I said some nice things about them signing land in Collins. I thought that was, I thought the Case Kingdom trade was a good trade. I'm just going to call it as I see it every day. Now, I did not advise Kenny to not renew his season tickets. But if a friend asked me, and I don't have any friends anymore that actually have season tickets, they've all given them up over the years.

This is a big problem for the Redskins. How many people do you know that have season tickets? Oh, I don't know anybody. I don't know anybody anymore. Actually, that's not true. I've got a friend business, and I think they own a block of like 30 tickets. But he's been trying to get out of it for years. Listen, this is not just a Redskins.

problem. It's an industry problem. That is true. I mean, people are not committing to season tickets like they used to across the board, but if it's a problem in the industry, it's double or triple the problem with the Redskins. I agree with both of those things.

It's not just a Redskins problem, but the Redskins problem is probably a bit worse than other teams. But in this day and age, I mean, why would you seriously, why would you get season tickets for something when you know you're more likely than not going to go to every game.

And if you do the math in most cases, it makes much more sense to do it on a one-off basis via seat geek or stub hub or any aftermarket ticket seller and overpay a little bit for the games you want to go to rather than buying them up for the entire year. And by the way, in most of those situations, you can get better seats. Yeah. Yeah. Season tickets, particularly in football. are a commitment to make sure you get into the stadium.

You don't have to do that anymore. You don't have to do that. You don't really have to do that anywhere. No. I think college football in some of these incredible, passionate, you know, areas in the SEC in particular, you probably are better off having season tickets. I can see that. You know, if you're an LSU fan, if you want a good seat for the Bama game, you probably have to get season tickets.

And since those tickets were probably handed down four or five generations, you want to keep them and the family. But it is interesting, and I don't even know if what Kenny said is true if yesterday was the deadline to renew. But I would imagine that if that is the date, that it was not a pleasant day in Ashburn. No. I don't think the Case Keenham trade moved a lot of season ticket. That would be my guess. All right, let's get to Bryce Harper. Did you have anything? It looked like you wanted to say something. Well, I just wonder, I wanted to ask you, how old are you? Why are you asking me that? Well, because, I mean, you know, my wife was listening to the podcast,

a little bit of the podcast the other day, and she asked me how old you were. And I think she was a little concerned about you, and she was just kind of curious of how old you were, and I don't really know. Well, I don't know how old you are. Well, I just turned 65, like a couple of days ago. Well, you, I'll give you, Liz, here's the answer.

Your husband's much older than I am, much older. than I am. I don't discuss age. To me, age is, you know, it's... What, did you forget how old you are? I didn't forget how old I am. I just, I know exactly how old I am, and I'm much younger than you are.

I don't know why... I don't think I've ever mentioned my age on the show. How old do you think I am? What would be your guess? I think you're 49. It's a pretty good guess. Okay. It's a pretty good guess.

Do you want me to read Bryce Harper's statement that he put out this morning, thanking the Nats fans? It's long awaited. Okay. Here it is. Bryce Harper's statement to the fan base this morning as he's back in town to play his first game as a Philadelphia Philly against the Washington Nationals. I guess he sent this out on Instagram.

Yeah. It's Instagram, I believe. If you would have told me five years ago, I would be walking into Nationals Park as an opposing player. I would have told you that you were crazy. Five years later, I'm doing just that. I remember the first day I walked into Nats Park, my first base hit, my first home run, and of course my first standing ovation. Nationals fans delivered that first ovation. The things that I will miss most are the relationships I gained on a personal level with so many of the national staff and workers around the ballpark. Every day I walked in, I got a smile or shared a laugh with you.

you. I especially want to thank the Learner family and Mike Rizzo for their unwavering support they showed me during my tenure in D.C. The city of D.C. was home. Philomena's, the Silver Diner, the Italian store, and countless other places helped make it feel like home. You Nationals fans made me one of your own for the entire time I was part of the Nationals organization. I'm so blessed to have been able to play for a fan base that cared so. so much about our team each and every night. You will always hold a special place in my heart no matter what. I look forward to continuing Harper's Heroes with LLS in the DMV, as well as making sure the legacy fields bearing my name are the best youth fields in town. When I run on the field tonight,

I am sure to hear some booze, but I will always remember the cheers and the screams that are still with me right now as I start my new chapter. So for that DC, and then in all capital letters, thank you, period. Well, what was interesting is he didn't go the old school way and take out an ad, like a full-page ad, like in the Washington Post. Then again, he doesn't have to advertise in the Post. They do it for him. Oh, really?

Yeah. They seem to do it for them. We got the title to the show right there. We'll get to Barry Scott. story. It was a story. It was not a column. Yes. We'll get to the story, which I think had a lot of revealing information that we didn't know before. It was a tremendous amount of information. You like Barry. I like Barry a lot. Yeah, I mean, Barry is great. I know that, but that doesn't mean. I don't know, I don't know what I wasn't born yesterday when it came to the business of journalism. All right. First of all,

on this statement, I have heard for months now, or a month, I guess. How long has it been? since he signed with Philadelphia just over a month ago. So I have heard from people who are Nats fans, this is disgraceful that he hasn't made a statement, thanking everybody. And then when Landon Collins signed with the Redskins, did you see how quickly Landon Collins said nice things about New York and the Giants and the Giant fans?

I'll be honest with you, I wasn't waiting for anything, and I didn't feel like I was missing anything without Bryce Harper making a statement. In reading this, I think this is very nice. And I think it's genuine and heartfelt. Genuine? Yeah, I do. So in other words, in one hand, he insults the learners by ridiculing their contract offer, but he also thanks the learners. Okay? So on one hand, he insults the national fan. When did he publicly insult the offer? In the interviews that he did, with ESPN. He insulted the offer?

He basically said, what's that due for my family? I mean, I'm going to be getting deferred payments till I'm 65. What's that due for my family? That's not praise. I think you're a little bit sensitive. I don't think it's a direct insult. Like, he didn't call the learner's names. Well, who gave it to him?

Did you give it to him? No, I didn't give it to him. Okay, so the learners gave it to him. Okay, the other thing is, like, you know, this nationals fan base that he's in love with. Is that the same Nationals fan base that all they wanted to do after he got here was talk about when he was going to leave? Is that the same fan base that he's referring to? Also the fan base that he doesn't pray or didn't praise as much as he's praised his new fan base. Right.

And also blew off three out of four Nats Fest when he was there. So it's not genuine. It's nice. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. I agree with you. He didn't take a shot at anybody.

He said the night. He didn't take a shot at anybody. Personally, I didn't need this. I didn't know it was a requirement when as a free agent you sign with another team that you thank everybody. I guess it's good public relations. I'm not knocking it. It's good public relations. I don't think it kills him if he didn't write it.

I didn't care if he wrote one or not. The only reason I liked that he had waited so long, it gave Nationals fans a chance to gin up some anger. For some reason, they got angry about this. Okay. Okay. And I think, you know, the more anger towards this guy from this fan base and the more revelations that he was the phony the whole time he was here, the better. And that means, you know, maybe they'll be, maybe we'll hear a couple of booze in the ballpark tonight. I'm sure it's going to be quite the threatening home crowd tonight, especially with all the Philadelphia Phillies fans. It's going to be hard.

In the stadium. It's going to be hard to figure out who's cheering for who. Whatever the reaction is, it won't be what it would have been had he been a Philly and signed with the Nats and was returning back to Philadelphia. No, it won't. So he did mention the Silver Diner, one of your favorite places. Absolutely. So that should have made you happy. That Bryce Harper, after he got here as the years went by, distanced themselves every year, just a little bit more from this community. I mean, remember he came when he signed with the Nationals and how he.

at his press conference when he was drafted. He went walking on the mall, and remember he took some swings from some guys playing softball in a game at the mall, and it was such a DC moment. I mean, that's a DC kind of thing, playing softball on the mall. He stops, he takes a couple of swings.

I mean, it seemed like... More of a DC moment than RG3 waiting for the planes? Yes, pass over. More of a DC moment than that. Okay. And it seemed like everything was possible, but as the years went by, he just seemed to distance himself from this. He never really embraced it like he claims he did.

He just never did. I mean, and again, like I said, the one event, the one event that the organization has for fans every winter, he only showed up for once. And his agents, his circus handler, as I call him now, Scott Boris, promised because he blew them off one year when he was in a contract fight about language with the nationals. He promised that Bryce would do a special event of his own.

For Nats fans, I dubbed it Bryce Fest. That never happened. Okay. So how sincere is he, you know, I don't think he's very, I just think he's, you know what? He's a strange cat because I think at the moment when he says stuff, he's sincere because I don't think he's got a very good self-awareness of how he comes off. You know what?

It's interesting because I, I, I don't know if I share the same feeling that you have about Bryce Harper, but I would suggest that someone who was basically born, raised, weaned on becoming a superstar baseball player, had an unusual youth, had an unusual childhood. A tremendously unusual youth. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrate when he was 16. He didn't really go to schools. He went to baseball academies.

Right. You know, he had a demanding father. I have no idea whether or not that father-son relationship is equivalent to, you know, the Capriottis or the Marinoviches or whatever. My impression is it's not. That's my impression as well. But he had, and Tony said this this morning on his podcast, and he described it as in some ways, an emotional arrested development on some level. that his emotional development, his professional development was odd. It was unique. It was not normal. No. So a lot of what you're being critical of could be just a result of that he wasn't emotionally mature enough. Okay.

So I'm not taking him off the hook for just. Those are reasons for it, but it doesn't mean what I'm saying isn't true. That's what I was going to say. It doesn't mean what you're saying isn't true. And it really isn't a way to take him completely off the hook. he does have adults in his life that probably he could advise him that he probably took advice from. But he, this guy grew up differently than most. Yes, he did.

And so anyway. And maybe he'll mature. He's only 26. Maybe you'll see a different Bryce Harper. We said the same thing about Griffin, about his emotional maturity, that he was so coddled, so entitled. You know, his mother was bringing him lunch. to school when he was a student

at Baylor. She was showing up to do his air. You know, he was never criticized. You know, one of the concerns Mike Shanahan had in that first conversation we had is he's never been forced to face adversity. That is a

concern that I shared with Dan and Bruce. Remember, he said that. So I'm just saying that Bryce was in many ways had that experience. Okay, let me just share a story. When Bryce, when we were talking to Bryce at the All-Star game last year, I asked him about pressure. I asked him, would he even recognize pressure if he was under it?

In other words, like you said, I mean, if times were tough, would he recognize it? And he recounted a story about when he first went from high school to the college of Southern Nevada. Right. When he was a kid still basically. 15, right? No, no. No, over than that.

16, I think maybe 17. I think he was 16. to play college baseball at a junior college, but one of the best junior college baseball programs in the country. And for the first two weeks, he said he really struggled. And he had doubts about himself, and he was thinking, I made the wrong decision. I mean, I made a too big a jump.

I should go back to high school. So he revealed all these doubts that he had in that moment, and eventually his talent went out. And I'm sure in almost every case in this guy's life, his talent has always managed and went out. He's probably supremely confident in that. So I think he has faced some adversity over the year. And I don't necessarily think he was coddled growing up.

But I will definitely agree that he had an unusual upbringing. Let's get to Barry's story in more detail. First of all, overall, what did you think other than the sarcastic comment you made? It's a hell of a story. It's really a good story. It's a lot of detail. I mean, Bryce revealed to him a lot of steps in this whole process. All right, let's go through some of the things that we're revealing.

First of all, we learned that the initial Nats offer to Bryce Harper came in the eighth inning of a rain delay game in the final home game against the Marlins in late September. We didn't know that, did we? No, we did. We knew that it happened at the end of the season. before he left, before the off-season would begin, before the postseason would begin. We didn't know it came under those circumstances in the manager's office. Let me read the details for those of you that haven't read the story, but I would urge you to read Barry's story from the post.

It's September 26th, the National's final home game. Harper came up to hit four times against the Marlins, four times he received a standing ovation from a Nats crowd of 28,680 on a gloomy day. The rain came in the eighth inning. It intensified. The game was halted or temporary delay. There was a delay because of the rain. Harper went down the steps from the dugout to the clubhouse for what he felt might be the final time if it continued to rain.

As Harper sat at his locker, Alan Gottlieb, the chief operating officer of Lerner, enterprises and a longtime confidant of the Lerner family walked through the clubhouse and asked Harper to come to manager Dave Martinez's office. When Harper walked through the door, Martinez wasn't there. Instead, he was faced with the organization's most important figures. Ted Lerner and his son Mark, who had earlier in the summer had taken official control Marc had from his 92-year-old father. Harper was still in uniform. The game had yet been called, but he was there to have a business meeting. didn't know it. At the time, the nationals were the only team that could offer him a contract. The learner said they loved Harper and they wanted him to be a part of their future. They handed him an envelope. Harper was stunned. Aren't you going to open it? Someone asked him. Harper said, not yet. There might be more baseball still to be played. They shook hands,

thanks all around. When he got back to his locker, Harper texted his wife, Kayla. You're not going to believe this, but they just made me an offer in the middle of this game. When the rain wouldn't relent and the final innings were canceled, Harper went to the hallway outside the clubhouse, still in uniform, and met his wife. Together they opened the envelope with the national's official offer. Ten years, $300 million, with explanations of how roughly $100 million of that money would be deferred, the last payment coming in 2052. I was kind of shocked at it because it was kind of like, hey, this is an offer you can't, they said, it's an offer you can't reject, and it's going to be great because he didn't open it in front of them. Harper was like, I was like,

cool, all right, I got it. And then when he opened it, we can build off of that. We can work off of that. If that's their first offer, cool, awesome, closed quote. I want to just hit on a couple of things here. First of all, you believe that this is the Boris Harper side of the story in terms of the 10-year, $300 million, $100 million of that money being deferred. You do not think that that is true. Well, here's what I know to be true. I don't know. There was a lot of money deferred. But here's the exact fact that I know to be true. A lot of people, including Washington Post, had previously reported that the actual present-day valuation present-day value with the deferred money

of the contract was the first offer was $180 million. That's not true. That wouldn't be true. That's not true. And not even with $100 million deferred. It would have been $2.40. Well, it's $270.

$2.70, and you'll see in the story, Barry talks about some discrepancy between how to work out that valuation. Okay, well, let me just, make sure then. But so I don't know how much was deferred. I don't know. Well, you told me before that it was not $100 million.

No, no. What I told you? Based on the report that came from, what's his face? Not Nightingale. The guy that's Boris's guy in the media. John Heyman. Heyman. No, what I said was the $180 million valuation was not accurate.

Okay. No one, by the way, at $100 million in deferred money would have come up with. Right. Anybody could have done the math. It doesn't make sense. It wouldn't have been $180 million in present day value. All right. So let's keep it there for a moment because essentially what Harper tells Barry is that this was received as a starter.

Like this is a negotiation starter, right? This is not their final offer. This is a negotiation starter because he says, you know, all right, cool. got it. We can build off that. We can work off that. If that's their first offer, cool, awesome. All right. So they thought that there would be negotiating room there. Is that fair? Well, I guess so, but what follows doesn't make sense. I know. We'll get to that in a moment. But what I want to start with this, if it's an opening offer at $300 million for 10 years, all right, with a lot of it deferred, creating some sort of present day value of less

than 300 million. Right. Okay? Then I just want you and I to be able to agree here. Aaron, you can weigh in too that that's not an offer that Harper should have or was ever going to accept in the moment. Well, not before he went to free agency. Of course not.

Okay. Of course not. Okay. So I want to just be clear on this because we had an argument about this before. And I said that was not an offer that Harper would ever have accepted in the moment, in part because I think Boris had promised a bigger offer down the road. Let me just point out, they used that offer for months because they were the ones that leaked. That's different.

If you want to say it was great that that offer was out there, that Boris leaked the $300 million for 10 years and probably didn't necessarily mention the deferred piece as a way to get other teams or give other teams a starting point and something they'd have to beat, that's fine, that's fair. But at the same time, if we're all... all being, you know, putting ourselves into that moment. This was not an offer that was going to end the process, keep Bryce from going to free agency and make him a Washington National on the spot.

And the Nats had to know that. Well, they knew. I think they wanted to be on the record with an offer that they felt. Of course they didn't want to offer them. That would have been a horrible PR move not to make him an offer. Absolutely. I think that was a primary motive behind it. But I think it was a sincere offer.

But it's not one that they expected he would sign. No. Okay. Because we'll get to the next part. The offer never gets any better from that. Which is why I do think it's not unfair to say that the Nats never made him an offer that he could accept. But, Kevin, if it's a starting point and you make an offer to somebody, don't you usually come back and say, you know what? Sometimes.

It's not all the, it's not the way it works all the time. But the exception would be you don't do it. The rule would be, you know, we like this about the contract. We don't like this. Let's see what we can do. They never heard. The Nationals never heard word one, word one from Harper or Boris once they got that offer. I want to get back to that in a moment, but I just want to be on record as saying, it's not like this written rule that if you get an offer, the only way for the negotiator,

to start is for the party that was offered the deal to then come back with a counteroffer. I think it's typical. I'm not saying it isn't. You don't. You're negotiating against yourself. But in this particular situation, he's headed towards free agency where he's going to get a lot of offers. If you want to prevent him from getting to free agency, you better make an offer that's pretty that you're pretty confident is going to get a deal done.

But they knew that that that wasn't going to happen. And they knew that they knew no matter what they. offered him. He wasn't going to, he was going to go to free agency. I mean, I can, I can envision through reading this story, you know, the learner's sitting there, this is a great offer. You're not, you're not going to be able to turn this down. You're not going to be able to reject this offer. This is as good as it's going to get. We love you so much. I could see that too. Okay, so, so we're in this situation and Tommy just pointed it out. For two months, Boris and Harper never got back to the Nats. Now, let's talk about. Let's talk about. We're, we're

talk about this one more time that you keep saying it's not necessarily the rule. If you negotiate the other way, if I make you an offer and you don't voice to me anything about it, if I come back and make you another offer, aren't I negotiating against myself? Of course you, but no, not necessarily if other teams are making offers simultaneously, that dwarf your offer. Bryce wanted to get to free agency where offers were. But that wasn't happening. I know, I know it wasn't, but the reason that you don't go back right away,

look, if you are dead set on this is where I want to be, I don't want to get to free agency. I don't even want to use free agency as leverage. I want to play in Washington. That's a starting offer. In some ways, I wish he had gone back because I would have loved to have seen what the learner's response was, because my guess is that this was their best offer. We know that based on this story. You're probably right, but I don't know why Harper.

You know what? I think there was a situation was Harper and Boris were afraid to go back to them because what if they did make them a better offer? Then they wouldn't be able to go through this Harper's bizarre free agency that Boris had envisioned. Look, there was only one way to prevent him. Well, the one way to not prevent him from heading towards free agency was to make this offer. $300 million, 10 years

with deferred money up to $100 million of it deferred. That ensured that he was going to get to free agency. Like it's not an offer that he was going to accept in the moment, and it was probably an offer that the Nats knew he wouldn't accept unless they were being delusional as to what free agency at that moment in September could potentially produce for him. nobody knows Boris better than Rizzo and the learners. They knew no matter what offer they gave him, they were not going to accept it.

They were determined to create a historic season of free agency. And that was their goal. Okay, so then there was no way to prevent it. No. With any offer. I guess if you offered him $400 million for 10 years? Right. Okay.

He would have taken that. And on the flip side, if there was only one place that Bryce Harper wanted to play and the value of the contract wasn't so significant to him in terms of it being the largest, then they may have come right back with a counteroffer. You would think if a guy's part is in the city, then it would have been easy for him to, the natural response would have been, you know, I really want to stay. This isn't going to work. Can we try something else?

But if he were my client in that moment, I would say, let's go see whatever. everybody else, what everybody else says, and let's get this thing up to 330, 350, 400, whatever. Now, in hindsight, Boris would have saved his client some level of not reaching expectation of what the market was, not being involved in this frenzied free agency period for Bryce Harper, which never really materialized. So he would have saved him from some level, for the lack of a better word, embarrassment through that process and would have made him a national for life.

The fans would have loved it. Harper never got to free agency and they went back with the counter of 330 for 13 years and the Nat said fine. Maybe they wouldn't have said fine. But if they had, it would have turned out better

in terms of the whole process for Bryce Harper. But anyway, so you have that first offer on September 26th, $300 million, $300 million, 10 years, $100 million of that money deferred with the last payment coming in 2052. That is some deferred money, by the way. But you have to admit.

32 years of it. If you do the math, the 100 million deferred doesn't add up. No, not to what, not to the 180 in present day. No, no, but it's less than 300. Yes. Okay, so I don't know how to do that equation, but the economist that I was reading at the time or the people that knew the finances of that said

120 million in deferred money would have made the deal worth 240 in present day value. It was 120 million initially that was reported by Hayman in deferred money. This says 100 million in deferred money, and you're saying it comes out to be 270. So whatever. It's less than 300, all right? So it's not a 10-year, $300 million to $30 million. The average annual would have been much less. It's not the horrific, embarrassing deal that Bryce Harper made it.

out to be too. Okay. What does it do for my family? You know what? They didn't need if you, if your takeaway was that they publicly embarrassed the Nats over that initial offer, which I don't get the sense they did, but I'm not going to, I'm not going to argue it because you've read more about it. But it would, it wasn't the right tact to take because there was no, no, there was the motive. Yeah, there was no point to doing that. Once you've signed your deal with the only, The only point is once you have that new deal, you can then say one of the problems with the Nats deal is there was a shitload of deferred money in it. I mean, it makes your Philly deal look better to dump on the Nats deal. A couple of other things we learned.

We learned that Bryce wanted years more than money. I found that interesting. He wanted the 13 years, not the 10 years. He wanted more years to the deal, which is why some of the shorter term deals like, the Giants deal and the Dodgers deal were non-starters, although we also learned that he did not want to play on the West Coast. Again, this is what he says. I know.

Well, okay, what else do we have to go by? You're right. I'm just pointing out this is what he says. I know. He said that the West Coast was too close to Vegas. He likes the intensity of the East Coast and the East Coast vibe. He mentioned that to Barry. I'm paraphrasing there because I can't find it specifically in the story.

But he wanted as many years as possible. he wanted a no trade clause and he didn't want opt-outs, which ultimately is what he got from the Phillies. Okay, okay, first of all, I have pretty reliable source that tells me he wanted opt-outs, and the Phillies said, okay, if you have opt-outs, we're dropping our offer to $310 million. Okay.

Okay, so again, what you're getting is the bor- I don't understand why a player wouldn't want opt-outs. I mean, it allows him to get back to free agency. Right, but basically, I mean, he wanted the years because the years he knew would add up to the total value that would set a record. That's fine. I also, there's multiple references in here to him saying that he's been uncomfortable with the process of where are you going to be? And he wanted that not to be a part of his next situation.

And he's never uncomfortable with anything that revolves around him. So then, that's fine. So then came a meeting on December 23rd in Palm Springs at a home that the learners have in Palm Springs. Everybody else had been meeting with Harper in Vegas. Well, there weren't. There was only one meeting in Vegas. Teams were not flocking to meet with Bryce Harper. He went to Palm Springs to meet with Ted and his wife and others in the organization.

And Barry writes this. The December 23rd meeting in Palm Springs was Harper's best chance to re-engage the learners. The two couples enjoyed an afternoon lunch with Boris and his top lieutenant, Mike Fiore. On speakerphone from Washington was Ted Town, the National's Assistant General Manager in charge of finance. Harper was thrilled with the meeting. At one point, he said, Annette Lerner, Ted's wife, turned to her husband and said, Ted, get it done. Bryce Harper said, I was, quote, I was like, cool. Mrs. Lerner usually makes great decisions, closed quote.

By the time the Harper's headed back to the airport, the player was convinced his free agency wouldn't last much longer. He says, this is Harper talking, quote, I'm sitting there like, I'm going to be a national. I'm going to be a national. They're going to make me an offer this week. We're going to build off of that. It's going to happen. I told Kayla, his wife, be ready to go back. I flat out told her.

I was psyched. I was like, be ready to go back, because if we can, we're going back. I was pumped, closed quote. When the calendar flipped to 2019,

the Nationals got back to Harper and Boris with a new offer on January 3rd. The offer was 12 years for $250 million, according to one person with direct knowledge of the terms. Much like the proposal they made to Harper before the season ended, some of the money was deferred. The last payment from this,

contract according to the person would have come in the year 2072 yeah 20 years later after the last deferred payment on the first offer so understand 12 years they added two years but the value of the deal came down significantly not only in aggregate money in 250 million but potentially in deferred money as well the deferred Barry writes the deferals lessened the net present value of the contract considerably from their first offer although the nationals and Boris's team differ in their calculations. Boris's team told Harper that using a 6% discount rate,

the new contract offer was worth just more than $107 million. Harper's response was, quote, I got that offer and I kind of was like, dang. But for me, it was like, okay, I understand they're building a team there. I understand they're going to be really, really good. I understand they have Juan Soto, and I understand they have Robles. So my thing was I don't want to take something I don't want to take something that's way far less

than I'd get elsewhere and less than the first offer with the high deferrals. I don't want to be the guy that gets paid till I'm 65 that doesn't do it for me. So after I got that offer, it hit me, damn, I could be going somewhere else. So I turned it. I was like, I really need to start focusing on my meetings,

closed quote, meaning new team meetings with new teams. man the learners they don't F around no they're original gangster you didn't take that first offer oh we had great lunch in Palm Springs oh you we love Bryce we love you and your wife this is nice how about this offer yeah now let me tell you something Kevin a couple things going on here first of all I mean I think this guy is disingenuous at best I think he's lying at worst okay I think he had every in that. How much, if he's lying, how much of a lie was it? Well, in other words, I really got to start focusing on my meetings. No words, they weren't focused on. What was the Vegas, what was the Vegas bizarre all about? I think he's telling you just that the December 23rd meeting

in Palm Springs gave him the feeling that he was going to be a national. You want to know why? The learners were going to give him a better offer. Because, and the, and the nationals fans should celebrate this. Because for the first time, Scott Boris, Went to Ted Lerner's house in December in Palm Springs and didn't come away bamboozling the owner. For the first time ever, I mean, he did this. Well, the Strasbourg deal, some people say Strasbourg could have gotten more had he waited. No, no, but I'm talking about these winter meetings that he does in Palm Springs with Ted Lerner. The first time he did this, Boris did this, the Nats got stuck with Raphael Soriano.

The second time he did this, they got a break. They got Max Scherzer. the third time they did this in other words, the step where Boris goes over the general manager's head to the owner at his house at Palm Springs. I get what you're saying. The third time he did this, they got stuck with Matt Wheaters.

Okay, because generally, when Boris goes to that trip, he usually comes out with what he wants. This was the first time it didn't happen. This should be caused to celebrate for Nationals fans that Boris maybe has lost some of his influence among ownership. Not among Rizzo, not with Mike Rizzle.

And it's never been about a Scott Boris and Mike Rizzo thing. I mean, Mike Rizzo works with Boris, but he can be a hard case with him. Sometimes you would swear that Boris was a learner family member the way they did business with him. So I celebrate the fact that he didn't walk away from that Palm Springs meeting

with a deal. And I might want to point out, by the time that deal happened, that meeting happened, the nationals had already built their roster. They had already spent $140 million on Patrick Corbyn. They already spent about $60 or $70 million on other free agents they signed. Brian Dozier, Kurt Suzuki, Jan Goams. They had already built their roster.

Of course, their deal was going to be less than what it was before free agency started. Of course, they made him a deal. They knew he was not going to take at that point. But they had moved on from Bryce Harper. He knew that. You know what? That's fine. That's what I think.

I think that there was some sense from the get-go that we are not going to pay a nickel more than how we have him valued. Because the learners pencil out everything. This is a story I've shared with you before that came from a pretty good source a few years ago about how Ted and the learners were in on the bidding for the Redskins. And that they penciled that thing out to no more than I. a penny over $600 million. And once it got beyond that, they said, we're out.

And Dan Snyder and his group bought it for $800 million. Was it a good investment for Snyder? I think so. It's worth about $4 billion today. So it's the way they've done business over the years. They're going to model it out. They're going to come up with what they think is the number, and they're not going above that number.

And for this particular player, in particular in some of the things that you said are true. They had a pretty good roster without him. They had the ability to add to it without him in bigger ways. And they had a number in mind. And on some level, Tommy, I think they're fine that he didn't take that $300 million $10, 10-year offer. I think they are. Yeah.

When people say the nationals are better without Bryce Harper, here's what the accurate statement is. this year's team, and I know maybe the first weekend was a little bit rough. They got a hundred, there are another 159 games left. Right. Richard Justice from MLB.com told Andy Pollan and I on 106, 7, a fan, he thinks this is the best Nats team they've ever had. So this year's team without Bryce Harper is better than last year's team with Bryce Harper. That's different.

If you add Bryce Harper to this year's team already, then obviously they're better with Bryce Harper. Oh, I will, I promise you, when the learners and that franchise went through the exercise of determining what he was worth, the actual value to the team and the roster was not the entirety of that discussion. It was, what is his business impact? Oh, yeah. And so that's significant in Philly. Yeah. So that's where, and they got to 300 million for 10 years with a certain amount of it being deferred and they weren't going above that. I really do for the purposes of being able to say definitively that this was more about the Nats than Bryce Harper in terms of the final result, which is what I believe. I would have loved to have seen Boris and Harper at some point

give the Nats a counteroffer. You know, within a reasonable amount of time to see if they would have accepted the counteroffer or if they would have tried to handle or really haggle the counteroffer. I agree. Because I think that that would have said, but my gut is, especially now that we know what the second offer was, they were never going above that. And this discussion of, well, they never got back to us. The getting back to us wasn't for a counteroffer. The getting back to them was, do you accept our offer, yes or no, so that they could move on one way or the other? It was not a negotiation starter. It wasn't. We know that now from the second offer. That second offer isn't out of frustration. Yeah, but again, you can't compare it to because the second offer was made after they had put their roster together. Okay. All right. Whatever. You know what? If they really, really wanted him, they would have said after a month or six weeks or seven weeks, you guys haven't gotten back to us. Are you going to take our offer yes or no? We need to know one way or the other. By the way, there was one other part of this story that I wanted to read to you and I wanted to see if you bought this at all from Harper. I'm going to paraphrif. phrase because I don't know if I can find it. Oh, here it is. For years, as Harper's impending free agency became one of the sports central storylines, the annual winter meetings held this offseason in of all places, Las Vegas, seemed to be a natural place to conclude the process. Harper's camp,

though, wasn't looking at it that way. Boris told Harper that he probably wouldn't sign until March 1st. Even as Harper said, he told Boris to go back to the Nats with any offer they received from another club. So as the Nats went about rebuilding their roster, Harper's Camp didn't counter the original proposal. So Bryce Harper essentially, the way I'm reading that is he's telling Boris, go back to the Nats with whatever offer we have. Give them a chance.

And Boris didn't do it. Either that. Am I reading that right or not? Yeah, except they may not have had offers at that point. We were like, thank. He says, we were like, thank you for the offer. We appreciate it. We'll consider it, but let's keep working towards one.

So I didn't talk to them for probably the first two months of the offseason. Which is the time to have engaged them before they started, before they started building their roster, before they started spending their money. It's really, this will probably get debated for years to come. You know, was it more on the Nats or more on Bryce Harper that Bryce Harper didn't remain a Washington national? I read this story and I think the initial offer was an offer that the Nats were not going to go above. They wanted him to take it right there on the spot, not going to free agency, but in reality, there's no way anyone would have advised Bryce Harper to take that particular deal in that moment in late September. Unless this was the girl he was in love with. Well, if it was the girl he was in love with and he was looking to set a record, he would have counteroffered soon.

Right. Well, you can't have both. You can't set a record and stay with the girl who you profess your love to because that girl does not. But the team profess their love through this story too. You know, we love you. They're sitting there waiting for them on September 26th. We love you. We want you. This is a great offer. You know what? You don't even have to open up the envelope. Trust us on this. And it wasn't a great offer. It was a good offer for them to leverage. I'm not disputing your take on that. But it was not an offer that Bryce Harper or Scott Borris were ever going to accept. No. One last thing, though, before we wrap this up. It's become this, you know, battle now between the Nationals and Harper, in part, I think, because Harper and Boris have either leaked or actually publicly in Harper's case.

Maybe that's what pissed them off was the leak, and that's why they came back with the other offer. Maybe they were like, we don't want you, but here's your other offer, take it or leave it. My point is, since he signed with Philly, in subsequent interviews, he's pretty basically downplayed, if you want to use the right word. I'd say criticize the offers that the Nationals made to him. If he had said, once he signed with Philly, simply, you know, I enjoyed my time in Washington and not made no any reference to the contract that the Nationals offered him. I don't think this would be as messy.

I think in all of these things, and we just lived through it with the cousins, Redskins thing, that both sides want the public to know why they didn't accept that offer, why they didn't take that offer, because they don't want to look like the bad guy. You know, Bryce Harper, you know, he had his, he had a start here. He was a Washington national. But he is the bad guy. He is the baseball's biggest bad guy. Okay, but that's different.

with respect to this specific contract negotiation, I think there's enough here to say, best case, if you're looking to assign blame, they're both to blame. But really, more than anything, the Nats never made him an offer he could take. Never made him an offer he could take. You can complain or you can debate

that Harper never countered, which was a sign that he didn't want to be here, but the Nats weren't aggressive in saying, here's a great offer. They said it was a great offer. It wasn't a great offer. And then after this wonderful get-together for lunch in lovely Palm Springs, you know, on December 23rd, nice place to be on December 23rd, Harper walks away feeling like the next offer is going to be better than the first one,

and it was worse. Well, why do you think he felt that? You think he really felt that because of a vibe he got, or do you really think he felt that because his circuits handler, Scott Borses- I told them, listen, this is where I lock down these deals. Tommy. This is where I walk away with the money. Would you think on September 26th, you get $300 million for 10 years with deferred money,

and that on December 23rd after a nice lunch that the new offer is going to be worse? No. My point is, though, he felt confident it would be better, not because of any vibe he got at lunch. Well, wouldn't you intuitively feel it's going to be better? No. Even without Boris? No, absolutely not because Boris. has already told him this is this is where I get it done I mean I win here we win here this is

why I come away with the money and for the first time he didn't this is where you know um and cooley's talked about this a lot but it's not something that comes naturally in part because you know some of these young you know in their 20s uh you know athletes they don't have the experience to do it but in that particular lunch Bryce Harper should have looked Ted Lerner in the and said, I want to be here, but I'm not going to sign here unless you pay me $330 million for $350 million for 13 years. If you will agree to that right now, let's get the deal done and move on and let's not play these games.

My agent, by the way, works for me. He works for me. Only Anthony Rendon has said that. Apparently. But there's, you know, clearly at that lunch, if Bryce Harper was shocked with the offer that he got, it wasn't really discussed what the offer would be. It was a takeaway maybe because of something Boris said, or maybe it was just the good vibe that they had in the expectation that that first offer was an opening offer and the Nats were coming back with something better. They didn't.

They came back with worse. As you said, gangsters. And, you know, over the years and you've heard the same stories, they apparently are not easy to negotiate with anything. That's why this whole controversy over, they don't want to go over the luxury tax. in part because I'm sure it goes against their very existence that they would have to pay money for spending more money. Usually they make other people pay money. That's right. All right. The last thing on this is just tonight.

I don't know what tonight's going to be. I'm not going to make any grand guesses because on some level I don't really care. I'm actually not going to record the game going to a concert tonight. but I will watch it when I get home. I'm interested to see what the reaction is, but I don't really care if it comes off one way or the other. I don't think this is going to be this resounding, you know, feeling of hatred for a traitor.

You were ours and you left us to go to our arch rival, like the Phillies are really a rival. I just don't see that coming. I could be wrong. I've heard there's going to be a lot of Phillies fans in attendance. Aaron, didn't you look this up right before the show that you can get into the park for not a lot of money? It's not like it's a hot ticket tonight. Yeah, it seems like a pretty standard game.

So what do you think the response is going to be? Look, like I said, I think anger has grown since he signed the Philly deal and his public comments. About Philly? And not just about Philly, but about... What about his love for Philadelphia all of a sudden, this newfound, you know... I think that's part of it. I think the fact that he dissed the Nats and the learners and the fan base with his comments. I think that's angered people.

I think the anger has been growing. I think it'll be dwarfed by the Philly fans who show up there in sheer form. You know, it just will be. So there'll be a mixture. There'll be some booing. But you're not going to, and you're not, and there'll be some cheering from that fans, but you're not going to be able to tell who's cheering because there'll be so many Philly fans there. And they'll be so loud.

You know, I'm a Nats fan. I like the Nats. I want the Nats to do well. I just want them to win the game. Is that too much to ask? Like, actually, in all seriousness, I know there's a lot of drama about this game, but they need to, they need, these are important games. There's a lot of baseball left.

But they started off one and two. They got two with the Phillies. They got four more with the, or three more with the Mets, and then they got to go to Philadelphia. You don't want to start. off this stretch of what is it. Three, five, eight, 11 games, three and eight.

These are important games. Okay. These are very important. How about the focus tonight beyond, because right now, if you gave me the choice, because I don't care if Harper does, I actually am a Harper fan, and I followed what he did all weekend long,

and I think that some, I don't get, I know that he's been inconsistent. I don't get the people who say he will always be inconsistent. I don't know why that is such a lock. I don't know why his best years couldn't be ahead of him, because I think they could be. And we know what is best. His upside potential is MVP level. And by the way, he started off pretty well here in these first three games. But, you know, I was listening to something early this morning and they were talking about, would you rather win the game, but Harper goes three for five with two

home runs or Harper goes 0 for 5 with three strikeouts but the Nats lose. That's ridiculous. The only answer is that they win, isn't it? They win. You're playing the team you're going to be competing with all year. They may have just played the team they were going to compete with. Like I pointed out, it's not just a 162 game season. There's a 55 game season between the Nats and the Mets, the Braves, and the Phillies.

Those are very important games. You think Scherzer will pull of Cole Hamels tonight? I think he could be provoked to. I don't think initially he'll go out there planning to, but it wouldn't take much to push Max off the edge and grab Harper by the throat and choke him like Jonathan Papelvon did. Scherzer should grab some of his own teammates by the throat and say, can you produce some offense for me tonight?

Well, offense wasn't that big of a problem this weekend. No, but for his start it was. Yes, it was. Yes, it was for her start. You know, I was on Philly Radio. By the way, why is he pitching tonight instead of tomorrow night? I think because he had enough rest. Okay, well, clearly he had enough rest, but that means that Annabelle Sanchez doesn't get his first start until when?

Tomorrow. He's going to get it tomorrow? Yes. So Strasbourg's not going to pitch tomorrow, even though he would have had ample rest. Strasberg's pitching on Thursday. Okay. Why didn't you go Sanchez and then Scher Strasbourg?

They say it's because they want to keep him on his normal rotation. I think he wanted Harper. Well, he would have gotten Harper tomorrow night. I think you wanted Harper that first. Is tomorrow's, it's tomorrow's game? It's a day game. 105 day game. Hmm.

I was on. Are you going to go tomorrow? No, I'm not going to more. I might go tomorrow. I was on Philly Sports Talk Radio this morning, 97.5. I made a lot of friends. What happened? Well, basically, I told you rip Harper?

Well, I just told him what a phony he was. And here's, and my Twitter account has just been, just been dominated now by Philly fans. And they actually posted the column I wrote in the Washington Times on their website. website. Wow, you are a salty little child, and that piece was trash. Ha, ha, ha, you're a clown. I got a lot of that this morning on my Twitter account. I'm going to miss Bryce Harper, but for different reasons. I'm going to miss them. I think that the Nats are a little less relevant without them. But it doesn't matter if they win. Right. If they win. There you go. So go win. Go prove that, you know, giving. Don't lose two. go prove that that gangster follow-up offer was the right offer.

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Call 86690 Nation or go to windownation.com. That's 86690 Nation or WindowNation.com and tell them that I told you to call. Final Four. Did a lot on the Final Four yesterday, and I did not spend enough time according to my brother talking about Zion Williamson. My brother texted me and said, you did a lot on the Final Four and you didn't tell me, you know, what Zion was like up front. And I said, well, I did tell you because I told you from the game when I texted. You said, but you didn't talk about Zion Williamson on the podcast. And he's right. I don't know why. I got carried away

with how great Izzo was and he was great. He was brilliant coaching that game. But I did want to, I want to talk about Zion Williamson, and I'm sorry I didn't do it yesterday. He is in person. I had pretty good seats. Thank you, CJ and Georgetown for making that happen. Had great seats. He is in person, one of the most explosive and powerful college basketball players I have ever seen up close. You know, it comes through on the TV, actually.

He is, and when you add the confidence. and that like edge he plays with for a freshman, I think he might be the best freshman basketball player ever. You know, he missed that series of games, and not every game was spectacular. But I don't know that we've ever seen a freshman that powerful, that explosive, that confident, that smart. He's not, this conversation about Zion Williamson

being the greatest college basketball player of all time is ridiculous. He may have become that had he stayed. I mean, maybe we could have said that after another year. We can't say that after a freshman year. I am not prepared to go to those lengths at all. David Thompson, for me, is the greatest college basketball player of all time. And Bill Walton and Ralph Samson, and you saw Lou Alcinder at UCLA, and Christian Leitner, and, you know, Tim Duncan is a college player who stayed all four years.

I mean, he's not in that conversation. after one season. He isn't. No, look, for me, it's David Thompson, and 1A is Bill Walton. Yeah, that's my list, too. You and I have the same list, then. David Thompson's number one, and Bill Walton is certainly a close number two. Yes. But he is unbelievable up close.

There was one rebound that he went up for in that game, where he's surrounded by three Michigan State players going from. for the same rebound, and he is at least wrist up above all three other players. He has, he's got this quick jump ability. His movements are so quick for a guy that size. He is big. Jimmy Patsos told me earlier in the year he's like, the one thing that stood out to me is he's chiseled and he's a massive, impressive, you know, looking dude, but he's not that

tall. And he's not. You know, like people will compare him to Parkley. Six-nine? He's listed at six-seven. Is that what he's listed at? I think it's six-eight. Is it six-eight? So it might be one of those Barkley situations where he might actually be six-six-six-seven.

Wes Unseld, you know, for his career was listed as six-seven, six-eight. He was actually six-three, apparently. When someone finally measured him late in his career. But his quick movement, especially his quick explosion to a ball off the glass as a rebounder. He is so athletic. He's got great hands. He's got

length. He's got great timing. By the way, I think he didn't shoot free throws well, but I think his stroke is fine. He's got a good shooting stroke. He's got great touch around the rim in finishing, really good feel. You see players around the rim that finish more often than not off the glass. That's a real feel and a touch thing and a spatial thing. And he's got all of the, you know, the things that you might not refer to as athleticism, but basketball skill. He's got all of it, all of it. It would be phenomenal if the wizards lucked their way into number one in the lottery, because there is no doubt who the number one player should be.

And I have no idea if he's going to be LeBron, but from when everybody, he says about him is a person that he's a great guy, that he is humble, that he's not self-absorbed, that he's got tremendous self-awareness for somebody that age. I can't imagine that he doesn't become a great success. Tommy, it's not just the size and the physical prowess. It's the quick, you know, way in which he attacks. It's his hands. It's his hand-eye. It's all of that together in a basketball player. He's spectacular. He's not... But one quick thing, because I don't want to lose this thought. Yesterday, somebody played back for me, Jay Billis saying that the greatest player in Duke

history was Grant Hill. I've heard that. I'm like, are you insane? Grant Hill? First of all, for me, the answer is Christian Leitner. Hands down, there's not a better player in Duke history. Leitner to me is a top 10 all-time college basketball player. But then the follow-up to that was that Jay Williams, Jalen Rose first, I guess this was on the Greenberg show, whatever it's called. The one that said, I think it's called Nobody Watches. What's it called there? Get up. Get up.

On that show, Jalen Rose said, I played against both of them, it's late against Grant Hill and Leitner. It's Leitner. And then Jay Williams said almost dismissively towards Bill is saying Grand Hill, it's not a conversation. Christian Leitner is the greatest player to ever play for Duke. And then he starts to talk about Zion's freshman year and whether or not Duke should retire Zion's jersey number. Christian Leitner is that, I mean, I'm an ACC, long-time ACC fan. I've seen a lot of Duke games over the years, as most of you have. Even if you're not a basketball fan, you've seen a lot of Duke games.

Leitner's number one Whoever number two is And I'm not even sure it's Grant Hill But if it is Grant Hill, it's a distant second Distant second I agree But anyway That was you were going to say something

No no I was going to say Anybody who has seen Zion Williamson play As far as I know Doesn't come away saying well What's the big deal No one ever says that No

No And if they are They're really trying to be contrarian. Yeah. Because I could have come in and say, yeah, he's not very impressive. No one says that. No, he is, I think at the next level, he is going to be easily a 20 and 10 guy.

Yeah. The 10 especially, he's going to be a high volume rebounder. I do believe that. Look at how competitive he is. Look at his, I mean, it's all of the things that we've already talked about, but he's also, he's got this competitive edge to him. Okay, let me ask you this. Could he be one of these college,

players, and we've seen this before, and not necessarily Duke didn't play a system like this, where he was held back by the college basketball game, and that in the NBA, you could see the full explosion? No doubt, because first of all, in college basketball, you can play a true zone. You know, there's no defensive three-second rule. That's why, you know, when you watched on Sunday, because Duke, again, and I mentioned this yesterday, and some of you, I appreciate it, you really understood what I was saying, when I said that, you know, K's offensive plan isn't always much of a plan. You know, there's a lot of AAU space the floor, let your athletes win one-on-one with Barrett

or with Zion, but you could see how crowded the paint was and how hard it was sometimes. They had a hard time getting him the ball. What surprised me more than that. surprised me more than anything is they didn't run more stuff for him. They really didn't. And when I say that, it's harder, okay, to run stuff if you're going to switch every screen and you're going to really make sure that the paint is hard to penetrate. And Michigan State's so good.

Then let him start on the post. Like run something for him to come from one low block to the other blow block and to make the catch and operate from there. Because to me, he has a good, post game. I didn't think we saw it enough from Duke over the course of the year with Zion playing out of the post and having your offense go through him on the post. That's one criticism I'd have and maybe someone will point to a game in which they did it more often. But yeah, he's, to answer your question, of course, I mean, one of the biggest differences, well, first of all, you have more, you know, pace in the NBA. But you really, with,

Even though you can technically play a zone in the NBA, you can't pack the paint and stand there, you know, because of the defensive three-second rule, which is what I've advocated in college. I think they should have a defensive three-second rule. Now, it would make it harder for lesser teams to beat better teams. It would benefit the better and more talented team. Right. But I personally don't like to sit. I think two few colleges play, they should play more zone. They should trap more in the back court, burn shot clock, and then drop back into a zone.

Because Tommy, typically, more times than not, it is harder to get a good shot initially against a zone than it is man. So, but you still don't have a lot, you know, you got Syracuse, you have a lot of teams play zone. But when you even play just switching every screen in man to man, in so many ways that basically the result is something that, you know, sort of is a facsimile of a zone defense. But anyway, yeah, I think he, you know, if his head's right and he appears to be, you know, got it all together, I don't see any reason why his career doesn't start big and end bigger. I would agree. I mean, his game looks to me like he,

is going to be a powerful force in the NBA. And it's different. He's not going to be guarded by college players. I understand that. And he's also going to have to guard a much better player. He looks the part to me. But what do I know? Barrett to me also looks like he's going to be a prolific scorer in the NBA.

I just would question whether or not he can guard anybody. But, you know, there's Duke. Four first round picks, and they're out before the final four. That's got to be a disappointing ending for Duke. Yeah, but I was rooting for Michigan State. I'm a big 10 guy now. I know that, but it's a disappointing season. I mean, how many times you're going to get Zion Williamson on your roster? It's a disappointing season, I think, for CBS, obviously, and a lot of college basketball fans. This was really, you know, I talked about this before the tournament with you. This was a unique, unique year in that you had a player that was a

major star going into the tournament. This sport usually produces its stars during the tournament. Most people don't know the players. This is why the whole argument of the players getting paid. This tournament is such a huge marketing platform for these players that will go into the NBA, be drafted higher because of their performance in college basketball, and have a much bigger endorsement deal than they would have ever gotten without college basketball and without this particular tournament. But Zion was the outlier here in recent years. We went through the list of recent players of the year and you're like, these aren't even player. You couldn't even remember last year's player of the year, who was Jalen Brunson, by the way, at Villanova. Zion was a star. And man,

they wanted Duke in the final four. Yes, they did. They would have preferred Duke in the final four. Do you like the final four? I mean, I think we're going to see two incredible basketball games. And I mentioned to Aaron yesterday, and I think Aaron, you agreed with me. Nothing would surprise me this weekend. Any one of the four teams are capable of winning two games and being the national champion. It would be pretty wild if Texas Tech winds up national champion. But after watching them through this tournament in particular, it wouldn't surprise me. They're really, really good and really well coached.

And they absolutely could beat Michigan State, beat Virginia Auburn, and beat the national champion. And you know what? Auburn could win two games. You know, the final thing. Personally, I hope we get Michigan State Virginia. That was my final in the brackets that we, that we had. By the way, where are our brackets right now? You're the only guy who has any finalists left, and I think you're the only person to pick any Final Four team? Really? You didn't have Michigan State

in the Final Four? No, I had Duke in the Final Four. All right, so. Tom, yeah, Tom actually did get Virginia. I didn't get any. I had all my teams got knocked out in the Elite 8. Oh my God. So I have a Michigan State, I have Virginia over Michigan State in the final, right? Correct. Okay. And you miss your other two Final Four teams. And Tommy's got Virginia. Did you have them in the final? No, you'd Duke Carolina. I had to do Carolina.

Yeah. With your all-ACC final four. Yeah. Okay. I think it's going to be a good final four. I mean, it's not, from a television rating standpoint, going to be a much smaller audience than it would have been had Duke. Look, even if Duke without, Duke without Zion Williamson would have lifted ratings,

but Zion in the final four, it would have been an all-time. You know, part of the allure of Zion Williamson is his name. I mean, if his name was Pinkus McCoy, he wouldn't be that big of a star. Actually, I think it was Pinkus McCoy. It would be. You know, this conversation, it's so funny because Aaron and I are big college basketball fans. Aaron really follows recruiting much more than I. But Zion Williamson, as recently as mid to late December, wasn't even mocked out to be the number one pick in the draft. R.J. Barrett was.

Zion Williamson was a name coming into college basketball this year really because of viral video and some of the dunks he had as a high school player. Most people didn't know who Barrett was. I know Cam Reddish because I actually saw him play last year as a high school player. But it's Zion, I mean, that first game over Kentucky when they ripped Kentucky. But, you know, they lost early to Gonzaga. Remember when they lost that game to Gonzaga?

when they beat Kentucky to open this season, people thought this was going to be an undefeated team. Really? Oh, all of the college basketball people. You couldn't bet on it after that first game. Yeah, that this was going to be our first undefeated champion since Indiana in 76. And they lost multiple times. Remember when they came to the Xfinity Center and had that great game with marijuana this year?

I did talk about yesterday the, Were you there? You were there over the weekend, right? No, I was not there. You didn't go? I didn't go. I look, my schedule... I don't need your excuses.

You weren't there. My schedule made it difficult. I know, you're very important. I was there. It was an incredible atmosphere. You see, I'm not like Friday night and Sunday. I don't have a lot of leisure time on my hands these days. Well, you know me.

I don't love going to games. I don't love going to games. But I'm glad I went Friday night. I'm glad I went Sunday. the Virginia Tech presence on Friday night was remarkable and was great. It's amazing how many Duke fans there are everywhere. You know, I know they had some anticipation that they were going to end up in D.C. And so they probably bought a lot of these tickets.

But, you know, on Sunday it was, Aaron, 80% Duke, 20% Michigan State. I might put a little bit more. I think there were some neutral fans who were on the side of Michigan State just because they were anti-Duke. Yeah, that's true. It was more Duke than Mr. You know, I might want to point out, you know who's a Duke fan, Bryce Harper. Well, of course, and he's a Cowboys fan.

He's a front hunter. Wait a little Philly fans get a hold of that DNA. Lakers, Cowboys, Duke. That's what we talked about this when he signed. Like, he better not show up in his Emmett Smith jersey, you know, or whatever. What was it? They're talking about Dak Prescott and Amari Cooper. That won't fly in Philly.

No, it won't. It barely flew here. Yeah. Um, quick word about scent bird. Uh, scent bird, Tommy is a luxury fragrance subscription service. Have you tried it yet? You were going to try it. Have you tried it yet? I have not had a chance to do it, but I'm very interested in smelling pretty. You, you know what? You actually usually smell pretty good, unless it's the mid part of the summer and you just walked in from a late night bender. That's a problem with you occasionally during summer months. But scent birds are a way to discover new colognes, new perfumes, without having a to buy the entire bottle. Bottles of this stuff, very expensive, and it's really expensive if you're not sure exactly what you want or what you want to buy for somebody else. So this is the recommendation here. Go to scentbird.com slash KSDC. You'll get 50% off your first month, and you'll get your first cologne or perfume for just $7.50. Centbird makes it easy for you.

First of all, they've got 450 designer brands for you to choose from each month. Gucci, Kenneth Cole, Tom Ford, Prada, Burberry, and more. You choose the cologne you want to try, and they'll send you a 30-day supply. So you don't have to buy an entire bottle. You'll get a 30-day supply of it. I tried it. My wife tried it just to get a sense of how easy it was. Very easy and inexpensive.

You can check out Centbird's user ratings and reviews. They've even got a quiz you can take to discover more personalized recommendations for you. Here's the offer again for my listeners only. Get 50% off your first month today. That's only $7.50 for your first cologne or perfume. Go to scentbird.com slash K-S-D-C. Use my code K-S-D-C for 50% off your first month. That's scentbird, S-C-E-N-T-B-I-R-D dot com slash K-S-D-D-C for you to try your first

cologne or perfume for just $7.50. Sign on, smell amazing. All right, let's finish up with some football. First of all, Tommy, when he's here with me on Thursday, I am going to do my annual Redskins mock schedule. Are you selling tickets to that podcast? No, I'm not selling tickets to that podcast. Because that's an event.

But I think the schedule will either be out next week or the week after. So I don't want to take any chances. It's possible it'll be out next week. So I'm going to do the mock schedule with you here on Thursday. You should do the mock schedule after the NFL comes out with their schedule. That way, they won't steal your mock schedule. That's a good point. And then I won't be wrong about anything.

It's just like what the weather people do. They always tell you about yesterday. weather the next day. Couple of things NFL related. First of all, there is an official now, 2019 NFL over under win total number out there that you can bet in Vegas. CG technology released their NFL win totals for all 32 teams. A couple of sports books have posted them as well.

The Redskins over under win total for 2019. is officially now, and I've been guessing all along that it would be six or six and a half, it is six. Really? Yeah, I've got the winning ticket here that I bought last year at the first day of the sports book at Hollywood Charlestown. What was it against seven? It was six and a half then.

And you bet over. And I bet the over. So I won. I know, I got to cash it before a year. I'm going to be heading out to Charlestown at some point to play the ponies. And I'll cash it then. so it's down from six and a half last year. Yeah, so six is the over-under number.

There are two teams with a lower number. The Cardinals are at five, the Dolphins are at five. And there are other teams with six, too. The Bengals, Bills, Bucks, Giants, and Raiders, all at six as well. The over-under totals, the Patriots are at 11, the Chiefs 10 and a half, the Rams 10-and-a-half, the Saints, 10-and-a-half. the chargers are at 10. In terms of the division, the Eagles are 9 and a half, the Cowboys are 8.5.

So the Eagles are 3 and a half games more. The Cowboys, 2 and a half games more than the skins and giants, both at 6. Additionally, ESPN.com posted earlier this morning their post-free agency power rankings for the NFL, and the Redskins are 27th on that list. better than Cincinnati, Tampa, the Giants, the Dolphins, and the Cardinals. So the Giants, really, with some of these moves, have basically now dropped to, you know, the Redskins level in the division in terms of predictions, in terms of odds. I think right now they actually, the Giants, if you were to bet it, have slightly better odds to finish,

to win the division than the Redskins. But the Redskins are there at 27th, and Kime wrote the paragraph on it. You know, I'll read it real quickly. three words or less description. They need more help. The Redskins did sign safety to Landon Collins, and they traded for Case Keenham.

The first move excited the fan base, meaning Landon Collins. The second one produced yawns, but they've been mostly silent otherwise and still have a lot of holes to repair after letting players such as Jameson Crowder and Preston Smith leave via free agency, yada, yada, yada, we know all this.

I mentioned yesterday that the Redskins were bringing in Kenny Britt. to interview Kenny Britt. And I said, look, they've liked before, apparently. You've got to, I'm like,

for all of you people that still are living in this world of, you know, all of you people in the media are exaggerating how dysfunctional the organization is, you've got to pay attention to the facts. The facts are that this organization

basically has one player signed here in the off season that, you know, is an outlier, meaning that, yes, Landon Collins is a really good player, but it's also a unique signing because he dreamt of playing for the Redskins his whole life because he loves Sean Taylor. Other than that, you had a trade for a middling quarterback, and you have basically a bunch

of people that have entered this particular roster that were either not playing last year or had no other options. Well, that would go along with their coaching staff. Their coach, I mentioned that as well, that Rob Ryan and Ray Horton were out of work last year. Tim Rete's never coached in the NFL. They've signed Cremardi, who was retired, Eric Flowers, was no market for. Brian quick, no market for. And Kenny Britt didn't play last year. Yes. So you stop with this. You're being too negative. These are facts right now. It is not a place that

anybody that has any other real option wants to come to. They just don't unless you grew up with this dream because of Sean Taylor of playing for the Redskins. They're lucky that Landon Collins had always been, you know, always had this dream of playing for the Redskins. Now, it's fair to say, and I mentioned this yesterday, Tommy, that, you know, you've got an unstable coaching situation and a lot of coaches are going to look at Jay Gruden and say, it looks like a lame duck to me. I'd rather go somewhere more stable. I get that.

But it's just the whole vibe that this place is not a place you want to come and lay down your career roots with. Let's not forget. People tend to forget because there's, and it's hard to keep. track of all the dysfunction. It really is. You really need like a flowchart to actually figure out

every reason why not to play for this team. But we forget one of them is in a poll that was done of NFL agents a few years ago the least trustworthy general manager in all the NFL was Bruce Allen.

The guy they trust the least. In terms of if the Redskins offer enough money to a guy, that's probably not going to matter. But when you're advising your client, you're reading them a Bruce Allen clause. I think, you know, just for the purposes of this conversation today, I want you to ask me the question that you asked me a month ago, can you say something positive about the team? Ask me. Can you say something positive about the Redskins? Yes. And my answer is the same as it was. And I was hoping I'd have a different answer at this point, but I don't. They have a

couple of really good young defensive players, and they've got a draft choice that may put them into a position to add a really good player. That's it. That's the list. I don't know where I could go without completely making something up and sounding as delusional as the people that show up for that draft day party at FedEx Field will be. Because they've got Duran Payne, they've got John Allen, and they got some good young, you know, nucleus players on defense. They also have a defensive coordinator that they desperately tried to replace in the offseason. But no one wanted to come here to replace him, not Todd Bowles, not Greg Williams, not anybody.

They have another young player that they've added in Landon Collins. I like the signing. I think he's going to be a good, player for the Redskins. Unfortunately, they have so many, so many roster holes. And at the most important position on a football team, at quarterback, you have basically right now, as we speak, two middling quarterbacks at best, at best. When they're good. Yeah. So could they add Josh Rosen? Could they draft Drew Locke's in today? They're meeting with Drew Locke today. I like Drew lock. I don't know if he's ready to come in and be Patrick Mahomes. I don't feel that way at all.

I mean, but who knows? Look, as Patrick Holmes wasn't ready to be Patrick Mahomes. You know, we don't have Andy Reid in this organization evaluating quarterbacks. That's part of the problem there too is we don't have the evaluating, you know, group that you really can feel super confident about. Yeah, John Allen was a nice pick. Fell to him, you know, because of the arthritis in the shoulder. Duron Payne, some of you wanted, you know, other players that potentially could could have been there, including, you know, Derwin James, you know, who ended up being, I think, the defensive, you know, rookie of the year in the AFC. Some of you wanted James. Some of you wanted, you know, also some of you wanted Vita Vaya, but they didn't have a chance to take Vita Via

if my memory serves me correctly because he went a pick or two before. But Duran Payne was a good pick. He appears to be a good player. So if you're looking for positive, I think their last two first round picks, Adelaide, and Collins to the mix? Who knows? Maybe add Rubin Foster to the mix. They've got some good young talent defensively to build around. But they're a long, long way from contending for, in my view, even the playoffs. I mean, anything can happen in any NFL year. We know this. We have this conversation all the time. But this is a team who's over under number in Vegas at six. It's right. This looks like a double-digit loss team.

on paper. It does. Doesn't mean it'll happen, but that's what it looks like to me. Well, you know, we still have a bit of good news coming forward to us on Thursday. I mean, the mock draft could get Redskins fans excited. The mock schedule. The mock schedule. I'm sorry. I screwed it up. I'm so excited about it. I promise you. I promise you, because I always give out, you know, days and times and the whole thing. There will be few national television games this year. Although the NFL in this 100th season apparently is emphasizing rivalries and putting them. So Redskins Cowboys, Redskins Cowboys, Redskins Giants, Redskins Eagles.

Redskins actually have a good schedule this year in terms of their teams. They play Minnesota, you know, a rematch with Kirk in Minneapolis. They play the Packers this year. They play the NFC North, which isn't easy. They also play the AFC East, which means they get the Patriots. Yeah. And guess where they play them at home? I mean, you get to go see Tom Brady.

So that means the Patriots, unlike practices where the Patriots said, we don't want to practice with you guys anymore. Right. The Patriots are going to have to come play to Redskins. Can you? They're not going to be allowed to say, well, we don't want to make the trip

and play these guys now. They're going to have to, right? What if the Redskins resorted to promoting the opponents to sell tickets? It's like the bullets used to do in the way. Remember when Susan O'Malley had the whole, we're going to promote the other, we're going to promote Larry Bird and Dr. J. When they come to town.

Listen, speaking of promoting the other team, remember Stan Kastin, when Nationals Park opened, he promoted the park to the Phillies fans to come down. And now they are coming down. And now they are coming down. But imagine in 2019, if during the preseason you started to see, you know, buy two season tickets and get Tom Brady for free or buy Tom Brady and get another game free because Brady's coming to town on whatever the date will be. Well, I'll tell you where the date, what the date will be on Thursday.

right yeah with my mock schedule uh did we forget anything today i don't think so i think we covered the world we covered a lot uh enjoy the day aaron thanks tommy thanks um tomorrow i have no idea what i'm going to do tomorrow but i'll let you know tomorrow when i'm in and then tom you'll be back thursday and i'll do the mock schedule then