The Kevin Sheehan Show - Thom is Back!

Episode Date: August 27, 2019

Thom has made it out of his house and he and Kevin talk about a slew of topics including the Nats, Andrew Luck, how Redskins fans should feel about the franchise, how Thom feels about covering football, and more. <p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p> Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You want it. You need it. It's what everyone's talking about. The Kevin Sheehan Show. Now here's Kevin. You're listening to The Sports Fix. Yep. Tommy is back in studio and better than ever. It's good to see you. I know you're still not feeling 100 to 100, but you look good. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. I feel, look, I feel better. I don't feel like I'm a crack addict, you know, who can't leave the apartment, which is pretty much. my status for the last two weeks. And that was after I got out of the hospital. You know, I mean, people are concerned about you. I know that. I mean, I'm hearing it from everywhere I go. I hear it on Twitter all the time.

Come on, the real truth, is Tommy going to be okay? I'm like, yeah, somehow he always ends up being okay. Yeah, trust me. I'm okay, but, and look, it's, my wife is just as sick. The only thing happened is she didn't wind up in the hospital. hospital. But, I mean, between the two of us, we've gone through cases of cough drops in the past couple of weeks. Oh, God, you and your cough drops. Are you a good patient or not in a hospital? Yes and no. I'm a smart patient. Sometimes I think I'm smarter than them. Yeah. I can see that. Okay. Yeah. I mean,

I ask questions and pay attention to what they're doing. And then if you don't like the answer, then there are more questions. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it. Like you're actually covering a story. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, sometimes it's good to know what you don't know. Yes, yes, it is. You've said that before, you know, like, I don't know anything about quarterbacks,

but Mike Shanahan knows something about quarterback. Well, when you're in a hospital and there are doctors there that actually attended medical school and have worked for the hospital in many hospitals, it's probably best to just assume that they may be right. Well, you never assume. Never assume anything because when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Yes, that's true. All right. Well, I'm glad you're back, and I'm glad you're feeling better.

You're pushing it trying to go to the Nats game tonight. I mean, they're playing the Orioles for crying out right. I know that. I haven't been to a Nats game in weeks. They understand. No, they don't. Well, text Mike and just say, I haven't been to a game because I've been not feeling well. I'm fine.

Don't worry about me. I'll be down there next week or the week after. No, I got to show up. Okay. I'm in. All right. You know, I may collapse. outside the stadium.

No, I don't want to do it. I don't want to wind up in a hospital in D.C. No. Well, actually, they're good hospitals. Okay. Sibley's phenomenal. Is that in D.C.? Yeah, Washington Hospital Center is exceptional.

Okay, so when they, hey, ambulance has taken me, I should pick which hospital. Yes, you should tell them what hospital is taken to you. Okay. Take you to. So a couple of things before we get into some of the show topics today. I, when you had your charity event in the spring that I went to, I got a couple of things in the live auction portion of your evening, which I always enjoy. It's fun.

I missed it last year, I think, but you do such a great job for the D.C. Grays and for, you know, baseball, grassroots baseball in D.C. And it's such a nice event. And Mike Rizzo attended the event, and Dave Martinez was there. I mean, people show up for Tommy's event. I mean, there are a lot of guys out there that do these kinds of events, and they hope that somebody like Dave Martinez or Mike Rizzo would show up, but they usually don't. They do show up for Tommy.

But anyway, I was pretty active in the live auction, as you recall. Yes, you were. Yeah, I was. You were pretty juiced up. Well, Rizzo and I were going back and forth on a few things. And I didn't want to lose to him. But I did on a couple of things. But one of the things that I got that I have not yet redeemed is I got a pair of tickets to a Nats game

in those Delta sky seats behind home plate. Yes. And I haven't used him yet. And I was wondering, do you think the guy that had to be? the tickets that I'm going to get two of. Do you think he would mind if I use them for the wild card game? What I think will happen is he will ignore your emails and phone calls. Really? Yes. But here's... We got our money. No, I've done this before and you all in whoever it is that, whomever it is that owns the

seats. They've delivered. I've gotten this item from your option, like I think this is the third time actually. Yeah, it's a good deal. It's a great deal. It's a phenomenal deal. And it's such a great experienced to sit in those seats because I never get to sit in those seats. Usually, you know, the station over the years has had pretty decent seats. Yeah, usually box seats. Yeah, and usually. But not not those club seats. And if I decide like last minute to go to a game on a weekend as an example, I'll just go down there, get cheap seats and then go walk and sit where I want to sit. Usually, you know, especially if I just have one of my kids with me. Yeah. If it's three or four of us, that's tough to do. But anyway, I was wondering if I should

take the strategy of asking for the wild card game. And when he says, whoa, that's the wild card game. I mean, then I work my way into the Brave series in September as the fallback, which I don't think he'd want to give up either. But if he says very strongly no on the wild card game, will he say no two times in a row? You know, it's hard to say. He's a unique character just as you are. And I know you're used to operating like this.

Pushing the envelope, you know, basically begging for forgiveness. That's your M.O. I never ask for permission. You are right about that. That's never been what I do. But the Brave series, which is going to be maybe the biggest regular season series in Nats history since they came to D.C. in 2005, Friday, September 13th through, I wouldn't go to the Sunday game. Because the Cowboys game.

The Saturday game I would go to, Maryland plays Syracuse early that day. I'm actually kind of excited about that game. Is that the Syracuse game or is it the week before? I forget. Eric, what? You're talking Maryland football, right? September 14th, who do they play? Is that the Syracuse game?

I believe that might be the at Temple game because the Syracuse is on the 7th. So I would do the Saturday game or the Friday night game. Friday night game would be the perfect spot. Yes, it would. But do you think if I start there with the Brave series, I'm going to end up with, nah, but I do have some tickets for the Marlins game this coming weekend. I think that's more than likely. You know, you might go for the last series of the year against the Indians.

Or one of those five games against the Phillies? Look, the Phillies games are always going to be good. Yeah. Yeah, one of those. I just think the Brave series, those three games on the 13th, 14th, and 15th, I mean, they're going to be mon. That's going to be, you know what, if that stadium isn't packed to the rafters for all three of those games. And remember, on Sunday, it'll be. head to head with the Cowboys Redskins.

With the Cowboys at home at 1 o'clock. Yeah. That'll be a tough sell. That will be a tough sell. And I'm not going to go to that game. Right. If that one's available. I'm going to be at the Cowboys Redskins game too, of course.

I mean, I don't know if I'll be at the Redskins Cowboys game, but I will certainly be in front of my television watching that game. But I think it would be cool to go to that Friday night game against the Braves, especially if they're within two games at that point, something like that. It would be cool. What I think is a more realistic, exciting option is that last series of year because they may need that to get the wild card. Yeah, I mean, that could be really exciting, too, against the Indians. It's really set shaping up for an incredible first-time thing in D.C. in September. I know I've mentioned this in the past, but, you know, I went back and looked this up. In 1945, the senators were in a pennant race, but those were war-impacted teams. Right. The real, you know, Washington

baseball last pennant race was 1933. Yes. When they won. You know, Washington baseball, baseball, last pennant race was 1933. when they won the American League pennant, went to the World Series, and lost. They won in 24. 1933. They lost in 33. The last time this city experienced an actual pennant race in September was 1933. 86 years ago. Think about that.

I know. I mean, we didn't have baseball for 34 years, but that's 34 years. That's 52 years you could have had one. Yes. And you didn't. Why? Because they really were awful. They were terrible.

long period of time. Last in the American League. War, first and peace, last in the American League. And the four years that they won it here, you know, they've won four division National League East titles. None of those titles came with a pennant race.

They were all one going away. Even when they lost, they were seemingly out of it. That's right. At that point. You know, so, and looks, you know, I've talked about this for a couple weeks now, and Dave Martinez got emotional literally talking about it the other day is it's startling how resilient the team is.

That's the personality of the team. To come back from losses, soul-crushing losses, and then to turn around and, you know, just go right back on a tear. That's been their, MO. This is the toughest, biggest-hearted Nationals team we've ever seen yet. I mean, I have criticized them for being soft and for not being tough. Not these guys. These guys are different. And, I mean, you have to, I mean, I don't see how you can't enjoy the way they play.

Look, I mean, back when they were 19 and 31 on May 23rd, I think it was, you still had the manager, you know, saying things like, we're going to be okay. The boys are, you know, tough and resilient. I don't know if that was just false bravado in the moment or if he really did see something in his group. But clearly he was right. Whether he intended to be right or not, he was right. Because right now, and I had Zuckerman, I had Mark on the radio show this morning, and I asked him, and I'll ask you the same question. This 56 and 24 stretch that they are on is the best 80-game stretch in franchise history. Is this the best Nats team that we've seen?

seen in D.C. Right now, this team. Yes, it is. And I'll tell you why, Juan Soto, Victor Robles, Patrick Corbyn. I mean, their top three pitchers are better than any of the top three pitchers. Better than the days when it was Strasbourg, G.O. and Zimmerman, or

Strasbourg, Scherzer, and then Gio, or Tanner Roark. This is a better top three than that. And the addition of Robles and Soto two future all-stars, two of them, you know, and the excitement that they bring to the roster. And as much as we love Soto, Robles could wind up being the bigger star. Robles could wind up being the greater player. You think so?

He could. He really could. The two of them together, I mean, it really, really could be like mantle and Maris of the nationals for the next five or six years. So I think they are. I think they're deeper than they've ever been. and I think they're better in their pitching rotation. They're weaker in the bullpen, obviously.

But overall, 25-man roster, and it's hard to believe because this roster looks so bad at one point in May, I mean, between the injuries and the bullpen problems. But now going into the time accounts, Alkins and September, they're as strong as they've ever been. I mean, the bullpen editions of Strickland and Hudson, in particular have made it a decent bullpen. In fact, I'm wondering whether or not when Doolittle gets back,

Hudson's going to share some of those closing responsibilities. Zuck was talking earlier, and it makes sense. Like, if you're in the eighth inning of a big game down the stretch here, and you got a left-handed lineup coming up for the opponent in the eighth inning, why wouldn't you go Doolittle there and save Hudson for the ninth? You're right. You know, I mean, why wouldn't you play it that way? I mean, I certainly don't want to hear that Wander Swero is really good against

lefties. Righty in that spot. And I know they're going to have Elias back at some point, and that'll create, you know, hopefully an opportunity for them to go lefty, lefty. But when Doolittle comes back, I don't think that it's a given that he just takes his spot back as the default closer. I think it will be. I don't think it would be smart.

Hudson looks, Hudson really is pitched well. He has this aura about him. The other day, I was actually surprised he came out for the 11th. I was thrilled that he did. I thought Davey was going to say, in innings enough. I'm coming in with, you know, Rainey. And they would have gotten beat had they done that, I bet. And he stuck Hudson out there for the 11th.

He pitched great. But when Zuck said that to me this morning, I'm like, yeah, you got a big game and you got a heavy left-handed. Let's just say it's the Dodgers in the postseason. And you got a bunch of lefties coming up in the eighth. That's what Elias is for, though. Elias could be. He could be that.

But you could use Doolittle there and use Hudson to close. You could. I'm sure this is a subject of debate and discussion. as to when do little comes back and what he looks like when he comes back. Yeah. It's a fun team to watch right now. They're so explosive offensively, which I think probably more than anything, Tommy. I know that there was a lot of hope for Soto, you know, more than just hope.

I think there was a realistic, you know, thought that this guy was going to be great. Robles as well. But the season Rendon's having is ridiculous. I mean, it's an MVP season in most years. You know, if you don't have Bellinger and Yelich right now in the national. league. And they're just so explosive offensively. I don't know that anybody saw that coming. The runs that they put up, I mean, here are their last five games during this winning streak. 11-7-9-7. You know, before that they lost that game that Davy pulled Strasbourg out, you know,

before the eighth inning. And before that, it was 13, 16, 14, and then one, two, and then 17. Like their run differential right now is significantly better than the Braves in the National League East and second only to the Dodgers. Look, I mean, they've been a streaky hitting team over the years, but this is beyond that. Yeah. This is beyond that. I think they're so deep right now that they're not going to fall into that rut of being unable to score. I just think they have too many offensive weapons.

It's a fun team right now, barring the outside. absolute unforeseen. Worse case, they're going to be in a one-game wild card to get to the Dodgers. Right. You know, and that would be really exciting. It would be unfortunate if they don't run down Atlanta. Atlanta's been great. I mean, one of the most amazing parts of this 56 and 24 stretch is just how good Atlanta has been. Yes, yeah, they've been right there. Yeah. I mean, Atlanta lost last night at Colorado, so the leads down to five and a half, but it's amazing with the way the Nats have played that it's not closer. But it isn't closer because the Braves are playing 600 baseball. And let's remember. the Braves are the defending division champions.

Yes, they are. So it's not like they're new to this. They were seasons from last year. But the shame of it would be this. Not that, you know, look, the playoffs, best of five, anything can happen. It's baseball. You know, it's a small sample size when you get to the postseason versus, you know, the regular season, which is much more reflective of how really good you are.

But the National League East winner is going to get the central winner with home field advantage if it matters, and they'll be the favorite over either the Cardinals or the Cubs, whereas the wild card winner is going to be a sizable underdog against the Dodgers. Although if it's the Nationals, it's not going to be that sizable. No. The Dodgers still have a better trio of pitching, but just barely. Yeah. This team I'm excited about, you know, Harper hit another home run off of his paternity leave. He took a few. He was really rolling, then took a I think three games off, two or three games off over the weekend,

and then came back last night and hit a home run for his firstborn. That is his firstborn, right? Yeah, it is. I'm assuming it is. Yeah. And the Phillies and the Mets are still, you know, playing pretty well. I mean, the Mets got swept by the Braves over the weekend. But all 14, I mean, the Phillies and the Mets are right in the hunt to be the second wildcard team.

Yes, they are. You could get a Nats Phillies game at Nats Park in a wild card matches. That would be unbelievable. That would be a heck of a stage. You think I could get those Delta seats for that? that? I don't think so. I don't think so either. All right, there's, there was some Redskins news, which we can spend a little bit of time on. And then I'm going to tell you what I did on the radio show today, because I think you're going to be entertained by it. First of all,

Jay Gruden said, is it related to Trent Williams yesterday? They're not trading him. Like, he feels strongly about that. And I, I'm telling you, Tommy, this is, this is the Bruce Allen line in the organization. This is what, this is Bruce's stubbornness. He, he, He is telling Dan and Jay, there is no effing way on God's Green Earth. I'm trading him. I'm not giving in. He's got two years left on his deal. He's going to play for us or he's not going to play for anybody.

And over the years, like when Bruce has been really hardheaded on some of these things, I've actually backed it. Like if you think about the McNabb thing, remember how so many people, maybe you, I can't remember. I'm sure you'll remember it. wanted them to do right by Donovan. Oh, you got to do the right thing. Oh, no, I was not in that score.

You know, Zabe was, others were. Do the right thing. Let him go. Let him find a spot. He's Donovan McNabb. Really? He wouldn't wear the play sheet on his wrist. Yeah.

You know, he wouldn't do it when it would have made life a lot easier for him. And it was a, it was not the best of relationships between Donovan and the coaching staff. They got a sixth rounder for him because Bruce wouldn't just let him go. And that sixth rounder became Alfred Morris. Exactly. A lot of people said about Albert Hainsworth. Not worth the trouble. Get rid of them.

Just cut him. They got a fifth rounder from New England for Albert Hainsworth. This is Bruce's M.O. He's going to try to get every last penny out of every situation. You know, it's also an Achilles heel for him because he negotiates so hard that he's, more times than not, he's not able to get really great quality players. What he ends up getting are average players for a great price. And that's been sort of his hallmark in free agency anyway.

But I've liked his fiscal discipline, his fiscal hard-headedness in spots. It didn't work out with him with Kirk Cousins. It was a complete butchering of the situation. And in this particular situation, I think he's got to be careful. because if he's getting offers, which I'm pretty sure he has, I know that the Patriots were willing to offer a first. JP reported that it was a first and second that the Redskins were looking for. I hope, and I've heard the same thing, that there is a price that they will take.

They better be all ears on this because Trent doesn't want to play here. The team's angry with him because he's implying that this is a medical thing, which they do not believe at all. They think it's all about money with him. He wants out. Let him, this time, make a deal. You've got a player with tremendous value more likely than not. And I would hate to see him just be sitting out on the sidelines when other teams are offering

firsts or a package of two-twos and a five or whatever it would be. And he's just sitting there. It's going to be hard for him to do that with the size of his game checks. But this is where his stubbornness may prove to be the wrong sort of path for them. I think they should be looking desperately, not desperately. patiently. Let me change that. Patently, but they should be all ears right now in trading them. Well, let's think the other scenario. Let's say, and I know we tend to overestimate this, but not in this case, I don't think.

Let's say they crush him, and he comes back with his tail between his legs to play for the team. What's that going to look like? What kind of condition is he going to be in? I mean, not physical condition. I mean, what's going to be the atmosphere? sphere in that locker room and that offensive line. If Trent Williams comes back after the third game of the season and is forced to have to play for a team that he's basically crucified through intermediaries.

I mean, I know we tend to exaggerate sometimes, you know, the impact of these kind of things. But we've never seen, and DeAngelo Hall said this, we've never seen a player hold out publicly like this. With the main reason, whether you think it's true or not, the reason being given out there is he doesn't trust the team. And now he's going to come back and play for that team for the next two years. That's not a good atmosphere. That's not good for anybody.

I know this is one side of that story, but I'm just hearing over and over from multiple people close to the organization, that this is the biggest bullshit thing of all time for them, that there is nothing, nothing that was done untoward medically or from a training staff standpoint. So why did Morgan Moses so willingly jump to his defense? No, I'm not, I'm just telling you what their position is. Okay. That a lot of people that have even been lukewarm with me in the past on thing, on defending things in the organization, they are to a person in management really upset with the way this is played out.

Well, again, that's not going to get resolved if he comes back. That's not going to just go away. Yeah, unless this was just a cover for him to try to get a new deal or to get shipped out of town. How is he going to look at that training staff in the eye after what was put out there? How are they going to look at him? I don't know. He hasn't used that training staff a lot anyway in the past. That's true.

He's pretty much trained on his own. Yeah. The other news is Ben Standing, you know, put out that the team wants to deal Doxon by week one. JP and Kime have reported in the past that the team has tried to trade Josh Doxon

and Ben further to the story that's my view on it I don't know care about all that stuff by the way but I just want to make sure everybody gets the proper credit by saying that they want to move him by week one

they don't like him they do not like him this is a McLuhan pick by the way so it's easy to say goodbye to him but it was it's just been an awful fit because, you know, Josh apparently doesn't love football, you know, enough and doesn't have that sense of urgency that, you know, a first round pick, you know, and should feel, you know, the responsibility he should feel. This is year four, and they didn't pick up his option.

It's hard to believe after three years of this organization that that passion didn't develop. It's hard to believe how after spending three years playing for this organization, he's not. He didn't say, wow. You mean playing? NFL life is great. And playing for this team, this is fabulous. I love this. You mean playing in front of a packed house at FedEx Field

and when they strike up hail to the Redskins and the whole stadium swaying back and forth? Gosh. He didn't love that. That's an all-timer for me in terms of, you know, being so excited and begging for them to pick Josh Doxon, not even close. Who knows? Maybe he'll go somewhere else and blow up. It's happened.

It's happened. But so there was that. And then I don't know that we've talked about this before the Jadavian Clowny stuff. Clowny apparently reposted an Instagram from a Redskinned fan that essentially was begging Bruce Allen to trade for Clowny. You know, Clowny is in holdout mode in Houston. And he reposted the Instagram like, hey, I want to go to the Redskins. my sense of this, if I haven't said it on the podcast, I know I have on the radio. I just don't see the Redskins as an organization that thinks,

they think so highly of themselves and of their roster, especially what they've done through the draft in their defensive front with Payne and Allen and Ionitis. And by the way, they all look good. Pain looks like a monster. Yes, they do. So far. He's much more athletic than he was a year ago.

they're not the team that says we still don't we still don't have anybody as good as him so let's get him and the more the merrier like let's try to get A plus player M.O though. The Dan Snyder M.O. is to get the big name whether you need the big name or not. Yeah, that's true. That's true but that hasn't been Bruce's M. No, it hasn't. So they haven't done that a lot in recent years. But

I just think that they will look at that and not Remember the Giants when they had Tuck and Strayhan and all? And they kept drafting defensive linemen because they realized, you know what? If you stop the run and you rush the passer, you've got a really good chance to win. And the more the merrier, because people get hurt. And in this particular case, to me, it's not even, you know, debatable. I don't know. I'm hopeful about Montez Sweat.

But they don't have a clownie on their team. John Allen's good. Dron Payne's good. Ryan Kerrigan's good. You know, Montez Sweat hopefully will be good. They do not have an A-plus player. Clowny, you know, he's had some injuries. He wants a new deal.

Look, they put out this list of 100 top players in the NFL every year. I've got that on my list to talk to you about. I mean, you know what? The Redskins maybe have one or two. Zero. Zero. Yeah, on the ESPN list. Really?

Zero. One of two teams with zero players. Tennessee's the other. So that makes your case. They've got nobody like Clowny. So, but I don't think they'll do it for that reason, that they don't add to areas of perceived strength. And two is that the dude needs a new contract.

And I don't think they're going to go there. So my personal thing... I wonder who's agent is. Clowny's agent? I wonder who's agent. That used to count a lot in the old days. Yeah. I mean, in the Dan Snyder days.

Yeah, I don't know who it is, actually. All right, I wanted to share what I did with, what I did on radio with you this morning, because I thought you would get a kick out of it. Basically, I got this tweet from Mike G. Kevin, by the way, I get a lot of tweets from people who say, you got to stop. Tom's influencing you. He's turned you so negative. I'm like, what? He said, Kevin, just pretend you're interested in the skins making the playoffs this year. What week would you want Haskins to start? I'll take the second part of that first and then work my way back to the first part.

I have not understood at all, as you know, this patience discussion. Like, oh, we're so smart for being patient with this young quarterback. He shouldn't play at all this year. All the ex-players say it too. And it drives me nuts. If you are a fan of this team and you didn't want to hear in training camp that the number 15 pick in the draft, Dwayne Haskins, was lighting it up, blowing it. everybody up, blowing people away with how quickly he's grasped the system, and how far ahead

he is of Case Keenham. You didn't want to hear that? I did. He's the 15 pick in the draft. That's what I was hoping for. What week did I want him to start week one? Now, if he's not ready, I don't want him to start week one, and clearly he's not ready. But, you know, in terms of when I wanted him to start, I wanted him to start week one. And now that there are 19 days between the opener, Between now and week two, I want him to start week two. I hope he improved so much over the next two weeks that they have no choice but to play him. I never wanted Case Keenham to be the best option any longer than he needed to be the best option. Why would I?

They spent the 15th pick in the draft on a quarterback. They didn't draft him to sit behind Brett Fav, you know, or even a first-rate NFL veteran starter. He's sitting behind Case Keenham. Nice guy. Started a lot of games in the league, but he's a back half of the league starter, which is, by the way, what he is here. A back half of the league starter for a back half of the league team.

You're right. But the watch for me on Haskins has already begun. I'm in countdown mode. Get ready. If you don't get ready, if you still are so far behind Case Keenham that they can't put you out there, that's a big red flag to me,

especially if they lose early. But anyway, let me get to the other part, because this is the part you're going to like. Pretend you are interested in the skins making the playoffs this year. I get it all the time from people. You know, Tommy's really been a negative influence on you. You get it, you get it too, don't you? Oh, I get it all the time. I mean, what about the tweet we got a couple weeks ago from the guy who said,

I couldn't even force myself into the mental exercise of actually imagining that the Redskins would somehow be good. Remember we did? Under what scenario, would the Redskins be good? And we got a tweet from somebody who said, it angered him and it pleased him so much, both because I couldn't bring myself to do it.

Right. I couldn't come up with any scenario other than scandal and sale where the Redskins would be good. I just think it's funny that people think that somehow your influence on me has made me so much more negative. It's not true. I enjoy, by the way, Tommy's approach to this. He really does believe it.

And what I say, I really believe, too. I just, you know, people say, you're sitting there laughing at Tommy. Yeah, because it's funny the way he presents it. To me, it is anyway. But anyway, people have definitely become super sensitive to our negative outlook on the team. And for me in particular, because I've been a fan and you haven't been. Right. You know, my overall lack of of optimism in the organization as currently constructed. I mean, it is true. I think this is more likely than not a non-playoff team. I think this is more likely than not a double-digit team, a lost team, even though Tommy, I believe the defense could be really good. But, you know, I went through last year's DVOA, you know, adjusted all the analytic defensive rankings. Buffalo was number two defensively.

I knew they were really good defensively. Number two in the league, six and ten. Denver was number five in the league, six and ten. That's what the Redskins look like to me. Maybe, I don't know if they're going to be number two or number five defensively, but maybe right around 10 defensively, but a double-digit lost team, because they're not very good elsewhere. You know, that's sort of what I'm envisioning. And it's also true that I'm not very optimistic about an organization owned by Dan Snyder and run by Bruce Allen. Why would I be? Like, why would any- Based on what? Why would anybody be optimistic about their organizational structure? I mean, have you been paying like it's been a complete hideous S show for 20 years.

And in the last five, it's just become even worse. So no, I don't think that there, I mean, I hope for the best, but I don't intellectually believe that they can have sustained success. Could they have a one-off good year? Of course, the league's designed for that. Well, this is why I say, and I say it with, you know, obviously tongue and cheek, but I'm half serious when I say it and I do this when I'm on 106-7

the fan too and get the same thing. You know, I could take my stupid pills before I come in to do the show. I could take my stupid pills and think like you all think that yeah, if this happens and that happens, boy, we're looking at 10 wins. But unless I take my stupid medicine,

I can't do that. Right. I mean, you're delusional. If you think that there's legitimate reason to be optimally, that this organization will enjoy some sort of sustained run of success. Could they have a 9 and 7, 10, and 6 year, this year, next year, the year after, make a wild card game, of course.

Yes. It happens with every team in the league, eventually. You know, every five, six years it happens. Are they going to have sustained success? There's nothing in my head that says it can happen. I am very pessimistic about it ever happening as long as Dan Snyder owns the team. And as long as Bruce Allen's running it, I really. really think the chances are like less than 10%. And the only thing that I hold out on is that they

could have, they draft a quarterback, they stumble into a quarterback who's a top five elite quarterback that it rises above all the bullshit in the organization. But I wanted to, it's taking me a while and I apologize. But here's the question that I threw out this morning. Understanding, we all understand, even those of you who are still positive and are still into it, you do recognize because you're an idiot if you don't, that the fan base, there's been significant erosion to the fan base in recent years. Like there are so many people that just don't care anymore. They don't care. So we know that. And it's not just the crowds at Ghost Town Field. It's the TV ratings. It's terrible. It's everything. The TV ratings have been, you know, the lowest of all time last year. And by the way, they were a winning

team through the first half of the season. And you had a Monday night game against the Eagles that did basically a third of what it would have done five years ago, six, seven years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Dallas Cowboy Games, Baltimore Raven Games on a regular basis outrating Redskin games locally. So we know that. You know, there's true objective data out there that suggests that the fan base has eroded significantly. So in understanding that, I think that a lot of people have gone from, you know, very angry and upset to apathetic and disinterested. and then I wonder, and I asked the question this morning, how many have gone a step further

and are actually rooting against the team? Now that takes a motion to root against the team to a certain degree. So you're going from pure disinterest and apathy, like I don't give a shit anymore, to rooting against them. But I know people who were season ticket holders, who were diehard.

And I'm like, look, this is an honesty check here. How do you tell tell me how you really feel like I understand a lot of you aren't anywhere near as passionate about the team anymore and you know what Tommy that's my admission I've lost a lot of passion for this team in recent years and I've seen it I've seen it disappear I know and you know how in what I was I'm no longer crushed when they lose I'm no longer you know there were games I'm the one who took it away from you remember it's your fault there are you know they're big games in recent years that I've gotten really pumped up for, you know, certainly in 2015 and 2016 and 2017 with my boy Kirk. I was into it. Last year, I was into that first half of the season. I was excited that they were going to be playing meaningful games in December. Remember, we both predicted that they would last year.

Absolutely. I predicted they'd win nine games last year. Right. But my personal truth now is I don't get as excited about. this anymore. I don't. I've lost a lot of what I had. But I have not gone to the next step. I've not gone to the next step of rooting against them. And I still have hope in the competitive portion of the schedule. Like next Sunday at one o'clock, I'm going to sit down and I'm going to be like our good friend Steve Zaven always says, let's go have ourselves a season. Because

you know what? It's the NFL. It's so precious. Like it's short. There's 16 of and it's like you want your team, the team that you've rooted for for your entire life, even if you're not nearly as passionate, you sort of see maybe if they get on a run, I can really get back into it and we can have a huge game late in the season against the Cowboys and Eagles or the Giants. And I'll be in that mode. I haven't taken that next step of rooting against them. However, with that said, I will also disclose and be completely honest about this.

I was rooting against them last year in the Philadelphia Finale. I wanted them to get their ass kicked by the Eagles, and they did, because I was hoping that that would be the final straw, and that would, you know, shake things up. And Bruce would be gone, and Jay would be gone, and Snyder would have some sort of an epiphany and hire some, you know, quality general manager, give them the autonomy, contractually, whatever. Then, so this year, if the season goes south, and they're four and eight, you know, in early December, it's going to be hard for me to really want them to get to 8 and 8. I'm not going to want

that. I'm going to want it to, I'm going to want them to get buried so there's a shakeup. Because you know what, Tommy? Seven and nine, like if they're four and eight and they went, you know, three of their final four, they won to get to seven and nine. And Haskins is the quarterback and he's playing well, everybody might be coming back for 2020 at this point. Yeah. So anyway, I, ask the question, how many of you root against them now? And there were several people who said they did. I got a hell of a lot of tweets that just said, I like you, have lost some of the passion. And some of those people say, I really need them to lose this year so we can get rid of Bruce and start all over. Bruce is enemy number one. Snyder is enemy number one and Bruce is 1A. But the problem

is enemy number one, Snyder, you can't do anything about. Right. You can hope that Bruce somehow gets run. Yes, you can. Look, I went through this as a fan with the New York Mets in the late 70s after they traded Tom Seaver. And I found myself in a situation where I said, I'm not going to root for them until they're sold, which happened three years later. But, you know, there's an overall attitude, and then there's the moments. And, you know, I can remember sitting in bars watching the lowly Mets playing like in 78 or 79 in a game and they're playing the Dodgers or something like that and they're winning in a game in the middle of July

and you know I find myself rooting for them you know that moment that momentary moment you can't deny who you are right you know so it you have it's it's tough to divide it up by the end of the season I was hoping for total collection just like you talked about here, because I figured total collapse would be the only thing that would push the envelope.

And if they're like a four-win team going into December, that bandwagon for failure is going to grow significantly. But I certainly understand how, let's say, they lose, let's say, who they play, they play Philly,

Dallas, and then Chicago. Let's say in that Chicago game, I mean, you know, at home, it's a Monday night game, right? They're real competitive. It's a real good game. You're not sitting there rooting for the Redskins to lose that game. No.

Okay? So the moments are too deeply ingrained. It's a good point. It's a good way to describe it. Yeah. I mean, the overall, the overall, it's, you know what? It's the head versus the heart. Well, last year against the Eagles in that season finale,

I said I hope I was rooting for them to get their ass kicked. And then I saw the stadium taken over by all of those obnoxious. Philadelphia Eagle fans because of the fan bases in our division, they're the one that's most repulsive. Oh, absolutely. They're the one that's the worst in terms of behavior, you know, delusion.

You know, honestly, in recent, in the last couple of years, you know the worst thing to happen to the Redskins as a Redskins fan was the Eagles winning the Super Bowl? Yes. Because for years, we could sit there and say, shut the F up, you've never won anything. And, you know, Cowboy fans, Giant fans, Redskinned fans, had all of these Lombardi trophies.

And the Eagle fan was left out. Even though, by the way, you would talk to them. And when they would speak, you would think, oh, wait a minute, you have all the Lombardi trophies. But anyway, I hated, I didn't want them to win that game, but I also hated that the Eagle fans were clenching a playoff berth, you know, during that game. But I'll tell you, like, Thanksgiving last year, I was fired up. Like, you know, they had lost to Houston. They had lost Alex Smith, Colt McCoy. he was going to play. I wasn't, you know, I was not happy that Alex Smith broke his leg in the way he did.

But I have to admit that going into that Dallas game, I became a little bit optimistic that offensively, they might be better remember. We talked about that. And it was Thanksgiving Day, and it's the Cowboys. And it's Cole McCoy going back to create the magic that he created years before on Monday Night Football. That was a moment. Yes, that was a moment. That was a moment. So I don't think there could be moments this year. Yeah, I don't think overall you can deny the moments, because the moments are deep inside you, they're in your heart. I mean, I don't think you can sit there in October

watching the game on TV and root for the Redskins. Root against the Redskins. I can't do that, but I know a lot of people that do now. Okay. I know people that do for... Maybe December. For one of two reasons. Not October.

One, to guarantee major change, they believe that that's the only way it will happen. Or two, you know, as we've said so many times, and we won't belabor this point, but it's not just been the mediocre to poor results. It's been the behavior. It's been the personality of the franchise that has been so off-putting to so many.

You know, the Cubs were losers forever, but lovable losers, and those fans stuck with them, and it's like the journey, like eventually, when we do win, it's going to be so sweet. Yes. But this journey's been... Ugly. It's been ugly.

It's been disappointing. It's lacked any level of class. it's lacked humility. It's lacked a lot of things. Speaking of, you know, sort of, you know, humility in class, I mean, how about Josh Norman the other day? Just going off, mouthing off. Best defense.

It could be all time. Yes, I know. So anyway. It's just unbelievable. And here it is. Here's the pain. Here's the difficult part that makes it worse than just losing. I didn't have to deal with this as a Mets fan.

As a Redskins fan, you have to show up in social settings where maybe people. people aren't Redskins fans, and then maybe at some point admit you're a Redskins fan, and I think you're a little bit embarrassed by that. I've never been embarrassed about that. You've said this before, and I can only tell you how I feel is a Redskins fan. I've never been embarrassed saying I was a Redskins fan. Maybe I should have felt embarrassed. I've never been embarrassed about that.

In fact, here's another point to the discussion today in the calls that I took. and I felt this way for a while. People who live outside of this market aren't nearly as distressed or disturbed by the organization as people who have lived here and haven't moved. And I know this because the people that I know that are huge redskinned fans grew up here and now live elsewhere are still into it to a certain degree.

Steve Sands, who's a good friend of mine, Golf Channel. He was in town a couple weeks ago. We had lunch. he still, you know, gets really fired up. And this is my feeling about this. And I had a lot of outside the market callers to this segment today. And they all sort of speak in the same way Steve does.

I think what it is is when you live outside of a city, there's this pride you have in, you know, flying the flag. Like, I'm a DC native. The Redskins are my team. The Wizards are my team. The Nats are my team. And you don't want to give that up. Like it's a point of differentiation, really, between you and your neighbors if you live in San Francisco or you live in Dallas or whatever.

And here, you don't feel that same thing. And maybe it's also just the distance to a certain degree. But anyway. And here's one more dividing line among the fan base, among the smart ones and maybe the ones who are delusional. And, you know, I always say this jokingly. my surgeon's general warning about the Redskins. But really, and until the media starts looking at them this way too, they don't operate like an NFL franchise.

They don't really operate that way. I mean, they operate like, like, you know, like the elephant graveyard of the NFL. This is where careers go to die. So until you look at this team and say, well, you know, we're not really an NFL franchise because we don't run that way. You're not being honest about how bad your team is. But in the past, like...

And again, that doesn't mean you're the only one. You know, this whole what about notion that we do now in society. Well, what about the other team? What about the Bengals? What about the Raiders and all that? Does that make you feel better? Does it make you feel better that there's... lousy teams besides yours out there?

Is that some kind of like resolve of strength? Yeah, we're bad, but look at those other teams. They stink. What kind of, what kind of answer is that? What does that have to do with you? It doesn't have anything to do with us. I just, like, I'm trying to find the comps. The Knicks are probably the best comp for the Redskins,

passionate, loyal, rabid fan base for a long period of time, you know, was witness to, you know, very good years. The Knicks, you know, obviously in your era, in the 70s when you played for them. Yes. And then the Patrick Ewing years. And, you know, having, you know, just, I mean, the Knicks were a brand. The Redskins were a brand. Oh, absolutely. And a huge brand. And bad ownership, you know, terrible ownership totally turned it around 180 degrees. And, you know, I think there's so many New Yorkers and so many Knicks fans. I don't know. That's probably the best comp in terms of organizations. I know the Raiders have gone through some of that same stuff, too, over the years. You know, the, I mean, Cowboys,

to even use the Cowboys as a comp anymore is they've actually been in playoff games here recently. Yes. And one, you know, they've won a couple. They have their own brands of self-destruction. Yeah. But, you know, the other part of it was what will it take to get it back? Like if you aren't passionate anymore as passionate and if you're even to the point of rooting against them, can you can you get it back? The answer to that for me has always been yes. You know, it significant- But it won't come back like it was. Significant winning will obviously help. But significant, maybe this is just a personal feeling and maybe it's reflective of I was here

for that Gibbs run, which it wasn't just productive from a winning standpoint, the championship standpoint. It was everything you would want your organization to be. Yes. You know, classy, first rate in the way they handled everything, is my favorite expression, constantly under-promising and over-delivering for their customers. I mean, always. They always ended up better than you even thought they could be. You know, they always surprised. on the upside, never on the downside. And so it would have to come back with the winning A and B, a feeling that the organization has quality people and is being run in a quality way, too.

Maybe that won't matter for a lot of people. It'll matter for me to a certain degree. There are some people that don't ever want to see them win with Dan Snyder as the owner. Oh, yeah. You know? Kevin, the sports market landscape has changed so dramatically, just a number. the last five years, let alone in the last 10 or 20, is that even if that happens, there's damage that's already been done that will never get repaired.

They will never come back to what it was. That doesn't mean it won't be big. That doesn't mean it won't be passionate. But it will, they have. Well, if they sold the team and you ended up with a terrific owner and they started to win big. Yeah, if they turned into Robert Crab. Remember, it's the NFL. I get that.

It's king. I get that. But it's king of a shrinking landscape. Kevin. How so? Less people watch on TV. Less people come to games. It's like having...

Less people come to games. Less people aren't watching based... Oh, yes, they are. No, that's not true. We had a blip. No, five... We had a downturn. Check the ratings from five years ago,

four years ago, three years ago, before the Trump thing. They're down. Do you know that the college football game on Saturday night, the Florida Miami game, was the highest rated college football game on ESPN in three years?

I know that. people love football three years but but less people love football more more people will watch football than anything else when won't it be king anymore i don't ever i don't know if it'll ever not be king okay but what i'm saying is you've got the most expensive house in a neighborhood where where uh prices are dropping um i guess that's true i mean in the you know i i understand what you're saying like if you go back 10 years but it's also it's due to so many more entertainment options. Yes, it is.

There's all kinds of reasons for it. And it's just never going to be what it was. And I think, I mean, you've lost fans who you're not going to get back no matter what. And the new fans who have come into the market, you didn't get them. You've already lost them. And God forbid, somehow through some miracle, Dan Snyder manages to convince somebody to help and build a stadium in Virginia, you can just put Ravens fans,

Ravens flags all along the Potomac River on the Maryland side. You're right about that. It'd be a big, big mistake. I think they know that. They're not building it in Virginia. All right. Quick word about stamps.com here.

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Well, two things. First of all, let me get to this. I hate the sanctimony of sports writers who jump at the chance to rip fans. Okay, I think in that situation where you had a fan base that was paying to see a meaningless exhibition game, maybe some of them season ticket holders, who find out during the game on their phone that their star quarterback, the comeback player of the year, is retiring at that moment? I don't know any other reaction but to boo. I don't get it.

They weren't, some of them maybe were booing Andrew Luck. but if I'm a fan, I'm booing that situation. I'm booing. Look where I am. And now this guy's leaving? This is what you're leaving me with? I think that sports writers who get paid to cover games are way too judgmental of customers who pay to have this product. And I just think the whole sanctimony about the booing was really over the top and misguided.

I think a normal reaction at that point if you're a fan is to boo. I am in complete agreement with you. I said it yesterday that it was the reaction to the luck retiring that ended up being the big story. Everywhere it was like, you know, whether it was the booing or whether, you know, it was the response to people on Twitter who said, you know, he was soft or he was quitting. But the lecturing of the fan bases that boo in the moment in, by the way, a stunning, shocking situation. situation. And I said this yesterday. In Indianapolis, if these people had heard this news three hours before the game, saw his press conference, had a chance to digest the information, probably wouldn't have booed. It's an emotional in-the-moment reaction. Yes. Which, by the way,

if it doesn't include physical violence, should be forgiven. It should be forgiven when it's shocking news and you react emotionally. You always don't react emotionally in the way that if you had time to think about it, you would react. So the lecturing of the cult fan base, just like the lecturing of the Toronto fan base when Kevin Durant got hurt. Yes. And they cheered. I don't want to hear it. That's bullshit.

It's an emotional reaction. And by the way, things like this have been happening for years, not just in Philadelphia, not just in the East Coast, you know, harsh, you know, cities with, you know, mean-spirited fans. It happens everywhere. Toronto and Indianapolis. Hardly, you know, areas that you would think of, of people who are predisposed. to being mean-spirited in their first reaction. So I'm totally with you on that.

Totally. Now, the second part was, and this goes, look. Scott and I, by the way, got into a big argument about this on the phone yesterday. Really? He felt completely different. He just, he thinks that the fan base, like, what do you think you're owed, he said? And I said, it's not about what they think they're owed. It's about an instantaneous reaction to stunning, shocking, shocking.

news about who knows how they were going to react, but they reacted by booing. You said that you would predict that they would boo. I don't know what I would predict they would do, but I'm not going to hold them accountable for that reaction in the moment. It's forgiven, whatever it is, if it's negative. Well, again, I mean, you know, unless they're throwing things. Here's the problem. And look, I've been covering sports for 27 years.

A lot of these guys are too close to the people they cover. They identify more with the players than with the fans. You know, like Tiger Woods people. Yeah. You know, and I still, I know it may not seem that way, but I was a fan, a sports fan before I became a sports writer. I still identify with the guy in the stands. And I understand that emotion and how angry that fan would be.

The second part is I'm conflicted about covering football. I really am. I mean, not conflicted enough to do anything about it, okay? Mm-hmm. But my line is, and this is real, I feel like I'm lighting up cigarettes in a cancer ward. I think that you have a sport that's so self-destructive with no answers to how to get around it. And my question would not be, how could Andrew Lug quit? My question would be, why would anyone play this game?

Did you ever feel that way about boxing, a sport you loved and covered in? still do? No. Why? Because it's never been any doubt what boxing was about. There's never been any doubt. What's the difference as to whether or not there's a doubt or a debate? Like if there's a debate or no debate? Football has not been sold on destruction. Yes, it has. No, it hasn't. Yeah, it has. It's been sold on the violent nature of the game. I know that, but who are the stars? Are they destructive or are they Tom Brady Golden Boys? Well, some have been destructive. Some have been defensive stars. A handful. Lawrence Taylor. Taylor, Dick Butkus, you've had a lot of destructive, physically violent players, Sam Huff.

But ultimately, the goal of, is one of rooting for magnificent athletes. That's the goal. That's what they sell. I don't think that that's what they sold. I think that's what they're selling now. I think for many, many years, you were selling the blow-up hit, the violence of the game. I don't know why you would be so conflicted about football. Well, I am.

I am. and, you know, maybe it'll become to a point, I don't think it will, but maybe it'll come from a point where I can't do it anymore. Stop it. No. Stop. I'm serious. Then you better stop covering boxing.

It's not the same. It is. It's hypocritical. No, it's not. It is not the same thing. Boxing, when they go out there. The point is to knock each other's brains in. That's the point.

So what? The point is not that in football. It's still the result? It's the result, but it's not the point. That doesn't make any sense to me. it does. I mean, the whole purpose. You're drawing a distinction between something you really like and something that you don't love as much and trying to make the case for the thing that you don't love as much that it's different from the thing that you love, and it's not that different. But football

has been a fraud. Boxing. Huh? Football has been a fraud. How's football been a fraud? Football has has been. They haven't acknowledged CTE, you know, long before maybe they knew it. Okay. Yes. What about boxing with head injuries long before? And look, in boxing, for you. years. I want to point out, when you get a concussion like Jordan Reed did, you can't step in a ring again for three months. Okay, so they've had rules to protect fighters. It may not have been enough. How do you feel about hockey? Oh, I think the violence and the fighting and hockey? What about just the hitting in hockey? No, I think the fighting in hockey is terrible. What about the hitting in hockey? It's a pretty violent game. Yes, it is. But that's not the point

of the game. We don't celebrate Alex Ovechkin. It's not the point of football. You're squeamish about football. You squeamish about hockey? But I think that's what football has become. It's become the self-destructive act that I don't think why any rational human being would play. So my question would be, why would anyone play the game? Not why would anyone quit the game. The third thing. Yeah. First person I thought. Well, we know why they play the game. I know that. There are people that it's their path out. Yes, I know that. The third thing I thought of, the first guy I thought of, Jordan Reed, first guy I thought of,

And I said, is anyone asking, is Jordan Reed asking these questions of himself coming off his seventh concussion? This is a guy who needs, who asked himself these questions after his sixth concussion a couple of years ago. And Jordan Reed, somebody needs to pull Jordan Reed aside and say, son, it's over. If you want to have, if you want to, I mean, damage has already been done. Like Jay Gruden said the other day, Jordan Reed will be fine. Jordan Reed will never be fine, never. You don't know that. I know.

I feel confident in saying that Jordan Reed... There are a lot of players that have suffered many, many concussions will never be fine. That never develop CTE. You don't know that for sure. I know that, but I'm confident in saying it. He'll never be fine. And he has to do so much now because of all the other injuries,

just to get on the field to play. I mean, the Washington Times did a story about all the preparation Jordan Reed does with his feet, just to practice, just to get on the field to practice. And then the post-practice treatment he has to go through. This is without the concussion. He has to prepare his body so much to be able to play this game now on a regular basis.

He needs to step away. I mean, if he wants to have any kind of quality of life, seven concoctrine, that was a devastating blow. That guy should have been thrown out of the game, and he should be fine. I didn't think it was intentional. Jordan ducked his head. a little bit.

I just thought of it. Some of the things that happened. It was a wicked hit. I just don't think it was a dirty hit. No, it may not have a dirty hit, but it's a hit you can't have. You can't abide by that hit. So to me, the first person I thought of was Jordan Reed, and Jordan Reed should stop playing today.

Look, the biggest risk to football is the lack of young people playing it and the continued decrease from a participation standpoint at the youth level. That's the biggest risk of football moving forward. And it will change. the demographics of the players in future years because those that end up, I mean, we've seen it, especially in more affluent areas, areas with significantly higher education levels, the participation rate has declined in alarming numbers. I mean, I saw it with my boys.

Actually, all of my boys played a little bit of football, and one of them played a lot of football. And by the way, had a concussion on the freshman team and then did not play moving forward after that because he played basketball instead. By the way, you know, the second most concussion sport is girls soccer. I know. So are you going to stop covering that? Because you're such a good job. Yes, I will. I'm going to stop covering girls soccer. Okay, good. But it really is alarming the lack, the decrease in participation. But there's always going to be, you know, a demographic in this country that sees it as their way out of a bad situation from a financial standpoint as a way to get to school, as a way to get paid eventually to play professional football. I don't see it going

away. I hope you continue to cover it because if you don't, then I'm going to have to have different days for you during the season on the podcast. Well, like I said, you know what? Be honest with you, I don't have the guts to walk away. Okay. That's pretty honest. I don't think you really want to walk away. I don't have the guts to walk away. I might want to point out that one of the probably driving reasons behind the lack of participation is parents reading every day how destructive the sport is. That's what it is. Well, how good can it be for your business when the daily narrative is how harmful it is?

In other words, you can have all kinds of great revenue and great customer numbers and all that. But if every day, year after year, the story is how destructive your problem, product is, it's going to take its toll. Look, it's probably the same thing that happened with boxing because that conversation was about how destructive and dangerous and savage it was. But there's a big

difference between boxing in football, even though boxing at one point was one of the most popular, if not the most popular sport in the country, right? At some point it was, certainly with horse racing and baseball. The difference is that football is it's a habit for people. It's

this scheduled thing during the autumn and winter months. It's the perfect TV show. It really is. It's the perfect TV show. It is that. And you know what? Consumer habits are so hard to break. Boxing was occasional. Yes. You know, it wasn't this fixed schedule from September until February, you know, during the months, which it's perfect for it to be on television, you know, in most of the country. No, you're right. You know, so I, you're right about all that. I don't know that it'll, it'll change. By the way, one other thing about the Andrew Lucking that I was curious as to what you thought about it. I talked about it yesterday. Did you see the criticism of Adam Schaefter for breaking the story? Oh my God. Oh my God.

Right. I mean, you know, talk about wanting to bang your head against the wall. Please help me. How could anybody in your business actually say, hey, probably should have held on to that one? Oh, my God. I mean, what, you're really, you're too stupid to exist. If you think that Adam Sheffter should have held onto that story so Andrew Luck could retire on his terms. You're real. You're too stupid to exist. It really was remarkable to me. Yes.

I actually, when I read some people in your business saying, you know, that was sort of one of those situations that required a conversation between Adam and the editors or his employer about whether or not you hold on to it. A retirement? Like, so I said yesterday, tell me if I'm wrong about this, because maybe I'm completely off on this. I said maybe in certain occasions, like the guy just found out he's got, you know, cancer and he's got six months to live. Or there's some tragic family situation where he's retiring to take care of children or something that are sick or depressed or whatever. And

it's a very sensitive situation. Maybe in that case, Adam says, maybe this isn't for me to break. I'm asking you, not saying or telling you, but for a retirement, like an early retirement, are you going to tell me? Of course, Adams and this is his business. Is information in breaking news like, give me an effing break? But am I right that there may be an exception to that or not? Look, there's exceptions to every rule. Is there an exception there?

Or is your job to get this story regardless of how sensitive it is? Here's what may happen. If you know that, and it's, It's a bad situation like a death in a family or an illness or something like that. You've got to get to the player. You've got to get to the player and say, look, I got this. I'm going to write this. You can work with me and we can do it together, but I'm writing this.

And if you burn me, I mean, you know, as soon as I walk away from here, it's going to wind up on the web. So don't think that you can turn around and, you know, all of a sudden manage this on your own. I've got this information. I'm giving you the courtesy of dictating it on your terms with me because ultimately the scoop is why you exist. Have you had this situation before? Have you dealt with this situation ever? Nothing comes to mind.

I've dealt with situations where I knew something and I would go to the player and give them the chance, you know, obviously, lots of things. Right. No, I've never dealt with a situation like this. Yeah. I mean, it's probably very rare. And if it had been handled in a way in which they decided not to go with it because they just felt like it wouldn't have been right to break it.

And again, the way you explained, it makes sense to me like that. We're going to do this. We're going to do this story, but we're giving you the courtesy. But you can see some situations where it would be hard to reach the player. It would be hard for the player to respond. I mean, if it was a really traumatic, you know, sad, tragic situation, you never know. But this wasn't that. Right, this wasn't that.

Yeah. Let me give you a situation I'm familiar with. I forget what year it happened. But Cal Ripkin announced he was going to retire when he said an interview with Dave Shinen of the Washington Post. Okay. They did that. He did that. Wait, I'm sorry.

So he knew he was going to retire. Right. Shinen had the information? I don't know. Okay. What I suspect happened was that they were going to orchestrate the retirement, and they wanted to punish the Baltimore Sun. So they gave it to the Washington Post.

Washington Times was just collateral damage. Yeah. But I suspect that's what happened. The way that was staged, my suspicion is it was to punish the Baltimore Sun, who they were very angry with their coverage of Cal over the years. So, I mean, these things happen for all kinds of reasons. All right. Did you want to say, you had a column about Kuznetsoff and the cocaine thing.

What did you want to say about that? Well, I wrote, and I'm like a voice in the wilderness about this, is that, you know, his apology is fine, that the testing positive, the arrogance with which he responded to the video, like weeks earlier saying, go ahead and test me, you know, if you want, you know, and they tested them. Yeah. I mean, that's like Raphael Parmero waving his finger in front of Congress.

So, I mean, there was quite a level of arrogance there. And, you know, he's issued an apology through the team. He's going through the league's rehab program that they're doing now. He still has to meet with the Commissioner Bettman.

But the league does not have, unlike the International Ice Hockey Federation, who suspended him for four years, banned him for four years, for this positive drug test, the NHL doesn't have anything like that. They tend to treat this kind of drug use, addictive drug use, recreational drug use, with a rehab more than a disciplinary arm. And I'm all in favor of that.

Why can't both go hand in hand? Why can't it be both? Because the mentality in this country is all screwed up about drug treatment. Well, I understand that. Well, that's part of it. But there should be some sort of deterrent, you know, financial deterrent to doing it, too. We're going to be there to support you and help you and pay for your rehab. If you're an addict, there's no deterrent.

All right, go ahead. So, you know, the NHL is approaching us the way they did. My issue was, if you're a Caffs fan, you have every right to know what happened in that seven-game opening round loss. Right, to the Carolina Panthers. He didn't play well. The Carricanes, I mean. Right. He didn't play well.

He was missing in action in that series. And particularly that one game where they, lost 5-0. Right. He, I mean, he looked like either he wasn't coked up enough or or coked up too much. I'm telling you, they have

people, and fans, they say, oh, I got one guy on Twitter tell me, you know, it's his own personal decision. It's his own personal decision. I mean, that, if he was using cocaine on a regular basis, that may have cost your team

the playoffs. That may have cost your team a chance to really defend their Stanley Cup championship. I think the Washington Capitals owe their fans an explanation, but their fans are so catatonic. They don't particularly care. Well, their true fans care. You would think so.

The Poser frontrunners probably didn't even read this story. Some of them that were down there outside of Capitol 1 arena after they beat Tampa and then went on to win the Stanley Cup, probably don't even know who Kuznetsoff is. Some of them do. Probably. So that was my column, and that was my point. What were his stats in the playoffs?

Do you know? I remember that he was very much missing in action. Yeah. But was he really that terrible? Really that terrible. And in that five nothing loss? Uh-huh. Unbelievably bad.

Yeah. I mean, literally. Everybody must have been in that five-nothing loss. Yeah. So that's that. The point is the Capitals owe their fans. He had six points in the series, just so you know. Okay.

He had a goal in five assists. in the series. He wasn't completely missing in action. But yes, in a seven-game series, just one goal for Coozy. Yeah. And by the way, it was in the 7th and December. And how long did the drug use last? Did it last all year? When did it start? Yeah. You know? I mean, weren't you a little bit skeptical when you saw, you know, the video that,

I mean, he's in that room. There's the video. There's the Coke. Like, nope, didn't even know what it was. Of course I was skeptical. But I didn't think he'd be stupid enough to ask for it. that off so I can get my nose down on the table real quickly. You know, I didn't think he'd ask for a drug test. And listen, well, that's balzy. I don't know, I don't know anything about the International Ice Hockey Federation. But my impression is, it's an organization that has a strong Eastern European Russian influence, you know.

And the Russians have a lot of power, I would think, on an organization like that. And to have arguably the set, one are the top two players for Russia, basically, banned for four years is a pretty big blow to Russian hockey. I've got you why, who's not happy about this out back? Vladimir Putin. I bet he's not happy about this. Yeah. I mean, of course not. You know what? You're following this situation more closely than I am. It sounds like... That's why you pay me to big bucks, well, I mean, if you're going to bail on football, at least I'll have you around to talk hockey. But it sounds like he's not going to miss any games for the caps, right? Maybe not. Probably not. Probably not. But hopefully he'll get some help. Yes. Okay.

Yes. Good enough. Can I give you one recommendation before we leave? No. I know you haven't seen Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yet because you were sick and you missed all. Right. Right. Please go see that movie. But you reminded me of this when we got into the conversation about the violence in football. This year marks 150 years of college football. And ESPN is running like a season-long series of documentaries about college football. About football in general. Look, college football is the start of football.

You know, from 80, it's 150 years ago, 1869 was Princeton versus Rutgers, the first football game. And I might want to point out, 50 years later, Franklin Delano Roosevelt had a summit as to whether or not they should ban football. Teddy Roosevelt. I'm sorry, Teddy Roosevelt. That's what I was going to tell you. You just stole my thunder. I'm sorry. I knew about that. There's a whole book about it. So this first episode aired Saturday night after the Florida Miami game. It's called Football is Us. It's a 90-minute documentary. It was so well done. And you will enjoy it because it takes you back all the way to the beginning. And it talks about how Teddy Roosevelt essentially saved the sport. Yes. Because it was so violent and people were dying. I mean, many, many, deaths in college football on an annual basis. And his son, I think he was at Yale, got seriously injured in a game. And it was with that that Teddy said, create a governing body for the sport, which eventually

became the NCAA, change the rules, make this thing safer, or I'm shutting it down. Yeah, I remember that. Well, you don't remember. Yeah, I do. I remember reading about it. I covered it. You weren't there in 1901. I covered it.

In 1902. McKinley was shot in 1901, right? It was McKinley, then Teddy. Come on, you got into your presidential trivia. So Teddy could have shut it down, and that's what happened. And then here came the rule changes, the forward pass, was legalized, which they thought would spread the field and make it a safer game. And then eventually the equipment came along, you know,

because they weren't playing with helmets in the 1800s. But there were so many things to this show that were really good. The other one was the difference in styles. of coaches between sort of the authoritarian coach of basically the first hundred years of football, 125 years of football, really, and what you have now. And they did a whole long profile on Woody Hayes and how he was the ultimate authoritarian figure and coach. And no one did anything other than what Woody told you to do. And then they had Nick Saban and Urban Meyer talking about today's coaches and today's athletes. And Nick Saban said, when I played,

You were told to do something you would never even think about asking why or questioning. You just did it. Now, as a coach, you have to explain why you're asking the player to do it. Or you are going to be discounted, discredited, and perhaps not even paid attention to. But as a good coach now, adapting to today's athletes, you know you're going to ask this guy to do this particular workout or run the route. this way, you also have to spend the time explaining why. That's the difference between coaching today

and coaching, you know, as recently as 20, 25 years ago. Well, I'm all... You'll love this show. I'm all in favor of that. I know you are. I mean, I think that coaches have too much power as it is. Right. Because ultimately, we're talking about one adult treating another adult. And, you know,

the Byzantine standards of the past should just be that. Sure. Okay. I'm done. Are we done? Yeah, I'm We went to, we got on a roll today. Remember, listen to us. Well, maybe we'll do this Thursday. What?

No, I'll save it for Thursday. All right. Save it for Thursday. Everyone listen Thursday. But tune in Thursday. Absolutely. Listen Thursday. That's before, you know, Thursday.

I won't be able to make the Redskins playoff preseason game. Why would you want to? Well, I like to go. Oh, God. I think it's important to show your face. Oh, Jesus. I know you don't do this. No, I mean, I showed my face for 12 years.

I was there at every single game doing the first game show. But I just don't know why you'd feel important to go to the fourth preseason game. Well, again, if Jay Gruden wants to pull me up against the wall and say, I'm sick and tired of the garbage you write, I just want to be there for it. All right, very good. Okay, but my point is, yes. I can't because that's my first class at Georgetown. Oh, good. Business of sports media, the fifth year.

When are you going to invite me down to your class? You want to come down this year? I can't come down this year? I can't come down this year. I can't come Thursday. Of course I would. No, you won't. Yes, I would definitely.

You're a busy guy. No, I'm not. I would love to do that. Okay. Actually, the whole thing, like I went out to Maryland last year and sat in on a class, part of a panel one time and then on another time just for a class. Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, Kevin, who teaches out at Maryland is Joe Yashire. Kevin. What?

That's Maryland. This is Georgetown. This is serious academics. This is serious academics. This isn't Maryland. Don't talk about the University of Maryland. By the way, it's super hard to get into, and it's a phenomenal, phenomenal academic. institution, College Park, University of Maryland.

Isn't I still have a son there? I'm still paying tuition there. There you go. All right. If you're listening to us on iTunes, rate us, review us. That's helpful. Also, subscribe. That helps us too, and doesn't cost you anything.

We're also available on the Kevin Sheehan Show.com, and I know we were having some issues last week with the website, but we got them worked out. If you went to the website last week and saw that it had been shut down, it's simply because I lost my credit card. And the credit card was on file, and then I didn't realize that I needed to call them to give them the new credit card. Here's the two words you need to remember. Small business. Small business being run by very few people. Have a great day back. We're off tomorrow, back Thursday with Tommy, and then I think Cooley will be with us at the end of the week.